🕹・game-discussion

[cloud sinew]

the trend doesn't

gambling!

[smoky merlin]

exclusively yes

[pale wolf]

the trend of tricking people into saying deez is from a vid from 2015

[left vigil]

Observatory actually clutch

[white zodiac]

it's like rebate never got nerfed

[smoky merlin]

im only 15 they shouldn't let me play balatro

[barren wigeon]

+1 p

[smoky merlin]

child have i got some news for you and you may want to sit down

[barren wigeon]

congrats!

[cloud sinew]

15 thousand more like... haha

[left vigil]

Unfortunate

[pale wolf]

I know it's from a Dr Dre song but it wasn't A meme like it is after the 2010s

[opal pivot]

Gud or nah?

[hasty harness]

ts tragic

[smoky merlin]

it's literally on the chronic by dr dre from 1992 and people did it after that like, a lot

[cloud sinew]

the trend that zebra is talking about started in the 2010s

[barren wigeon]

sell both jokers

[sullen apex]

dang i forgot about dre

[left vigil]

Wait what

[nova mantle]

I gotta sell my patent to localthunk now

[smoky merlin]

nowadays everybody wanna talk

[white zodiac]

it's the one and only d r e

[sullen apex]

like they got smth to say but nothing comes out

[smoky merlin]

is your name like belgian waffles or something

[opal pivot]

Is it good?

[cloud sinew]

close!

[barren wigeon]

eminem? more like smellinem

gottem

[white zodiac]

from japan yeah

[north schooner]

That's just a continuation of the meme from the 90s

[feral cipher]

eminem more like ass

[smoky merlin]

great stuff. i love it

[nova mantle]

I have to learn pixel art and get a good idea for the joker design brb

[sullen apex]

something something 80 year old me than 20 year old you

[barren wigeon]

when they move their lips?

[white zodiac]

had them when I went traveling in Osaka, was mad fire

[barren wigeon]

just a bunch of jibberish?

[smoky merlin]

i have no mouth and i must scream

[lyric shore]

earlier than 2000 = didn't happen

[left vigil]

This is hurtful

[white zodiac]

mostly what I ate along with the pancakes I get at lawsons

[nova mantle]

Is this seeded

[barren wigeon]

pain

[median crystal]

how does campfire work

[opal pivot]

How do i check if it is?

[barren wigeon]

sell a joker, +.25 mult

or sell anything, really

[left vigil]

I legit haven't gotten an unseeded legendary in like 3 months, and the one time I get a soul I can't physically take it

[white zodiac]

sell consumables or jokers to get x.25 mult for the ante

[barren wigeon]

resets after the boss blind

[north schooner]

Selling consumables is the real meta

[left vigil]

This hurts so much

[barren wigeon]

or sell splash

[nova mantle]

Well I was asking if you entered a certain seed before playing but based on that I think not lol

[barren wigeon]

because why not

[solid tapir]

free asf gold stake run, I didn't even play optimally in ante 1-2 cuz I was distracted by a friend (misprint and blue joker are in there for sticker, sold business card and holo)

[barren wigeon]

put him in your consumable slot

[opal pivot]

Heard you the first time bub

[left vigil]

obviously

[balmy ridge]

hmmmm..........

[left vigil]

Yes but it hurts so much I needed to put it twice. The first nat legendary in months, and it fucks me lmao

[nova mantle]

It would've been destroyed by madness so don't get too sad lol

Omg wait

[left vigil]

That too

[solid tapir]

we all know the right answer

[nova mantle]

ITS THE CHALLENGE

[balmy ridge]

BUS

[solid tapir]

yes

[barren wigeon]

It would not

[left vigil]

wait yes

It'd be eterna;

What am I smoking

[opal pivot]

Reroll and get jolly joker

[balmy ridge]

if only i had enough money to buy it

[solid tapir]

sad

[zinc karma]

Sell jupiter, take soul, when u get antimatter u use it

[solid tapir]

photo it is

[nova mantle]

You shouldn't had grabbed everything you've saw dawg ts made me sob 😭

[left vigil]

Yes and it'll be perkeo, so more observatory value

[nova mantle]

At least there was a 1 in 5 chance it was chicot

[barren wigeon]

YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET SOUL FROM OMEN GLOBE

[fervent wolf]

Or cc

[cloud sinew]

right but the 2015 trend dwarfs the earlier trend

[solid tapir]

are you playing flushes

[left vigil]

Wait til I tell you this man

[balmy ridge]

i have -2 dollars gang

[barren wigeon]

wait

[unborn cliff]

balatrodle fucking sucked today

[balmy ridge]

im as broke as a

[solid tapir]

bro is broke

[barren wigeon]

OH WAIT NOT OMEN GLOBE

[balmy ridge]

bro is ke

[barren wigeon]

the one deck where you can get spectral cards from the shop

[unborn cliff]

just sell a joker 4head

[balmy ridge]

also green joker synergizes with burglar yes?

[solid tapir]

ghost deck

[left vigil]

Obviously

[solid tapir]

yes

[barren wigeon]

Yeah that one

[zinc karma]

Broken af u have a lot of gold

[left vigil]

Well 0 discards is 0 negative mult, and +3 hands is +3 mult, yes

[barren wigeon]

MAKE IT SO YOU CAN GET SOUL

[barren wigeon]

good

[left vigil]

I wish

[cloud sinew]

you can already get soul in arcana packs, omen globe doesnt change it at all.
also ghost/sixth sense/seance cant give you soul or black hole

[balmy ridge]

i really be putting these dots together

i really be connecting the dots

[barren wigeon]

make ghost deck give you soul

[cloud sinew]

no <3

i cant do that sorry

[barren wigeon]

not with that attitude you cant

[solid tapir]

ghost deck is already so strong

[barren wigeon]

not strong enough

[solid tapir]

I don't think it needs that buff

[barren wigeon]

make it an instant win

[solid tapir]

[opal pivot]

Worst joker OAT, i want yalls opinion.

[barren wigeon]

anyways, isnt it crazy how localthunk made 98% of balatro

[barren wigeon]

yada yada seance yada yada

[solid tapir]

OBEL-

[grizzled jetty]

whats the highest Mult the misprint can give?

[cloud sinew]

23

[barren wigeon]

23

[cloud sinew]

the range is 0-23

[solid tapir]

Honestly seance is pretty bad

[nova mantle]

Matador

[cloud sinew]

showman

[solid tapir]

bro did not say matador

[barren wigeon]

whyd you say honestly like that's a hot take

[barren wigeon]

lmao

absolutely not

[solid tapir]

because I'm being honest

[left vigil]

Right

[grizzled jetty]

is it an equal chance to hit any number?

[nova mantle]

Bro did yes say matador

[solid tapir]

also matador is fucking goated

[barren wigeon]

matador is useful on 1/6 of rounds

[nova mantle]

Ok I'll give y'all one less controversial

[left vigil]

I swear to god, if I get the finisher blind where I need to sell a joker. I'll be annoyed

[nova mantle]

Satelite

[barren wigeon]

and on that 1/6th, it literally gives you so much money

[left vigil]

Okay good

[barren wigeon]

its bad but not THAT bad

[north schooner]

why do you hate oats

[fading cobalt]

Chad is honestly one of the best common jokers cuz of its versatility. It gets really fun when you consider the fact that its not just restricted to being a photocard slave

[nova mantle]

How is it not THAT bad???

[solid tapir]

early Sat is mid

[scarlet ruin]

We tour a bus stop going home and a guy was bored and saw me saying balatro

[cloud sinew]

its one of the best jokers outright

[barren wigeon]

there's worse

[nova mantle]

Worst joker in it's category

[pale wolf]

muni

[opal pivot]

I prefer wheat

[scarlet ruin]

I showed him the game he played in on my phone lmao

[cloud sinew]

delayed gratification:

[left vigil]

Baron, time to get naneinf fr.

[barren wigeon]

true!

[fading cobalt]

I'm scared to say things confidently in this server cuz my takes could get me absolutely flamed

[cloud sinew]

delgrat is the worst $ gen joker

[solid tapir]

delayed grat is good when I'm not using discards

[north schooner]

matador is the only joker that requires a wiki page to be useful

[nova mantle]

Better than satellite

[dire inlet]

yes it is probably a top 15-20 joker on gold stake imo

[barren wigeon]

no it is not

[solid tapir]

no it doesn't

who told you that

[cloud sinew]

golden joker that requires you to not use discards

[opal pivot]

Hate to break it to ya... but i don't tgink tou have enough space.

[pale wolf]

rtb is good when im not playing face cards

[barren wigeon]

literally

[solid tapir]

rtb ?

[cloud sinew]

that's.... the only usecase

[fading cobalt]

Ride the bus

[barren wigeon]

ride the bus

[solid tapir]

exactly

[solid tapir]

ah, yes.

[nova mantle]

The thing is, the money it gives is too low for the requirements that it asks for

[barren wigeon]

delayed gratification is only good with burglar or green joker

[cloud sinew]

burglar...

[opal pivot]

Balatro, but if i lose i do the paqui one chip challenge.

[cloud sinew]

i love my $0 a round with burglar delgrat

[solid tapir]

it works with squimbo as well

[pale wolf]

burglar delgrat synergy 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[solid tapir]

a bit

[fading cobalt]

Ah, y/n

[solid tapir]

yes

[barren wigeon]

OH IT GIVES YOU MONEY PER DISCARD

i forgot because I dont use it

[fading cobalt]

Why do you keep saying your name?

[nova mantle]

I ain't collecting planet card like infinity stones telling myself "oooh i hope satellite comes next shop I need me some econ" 😭

[solid tapir]

5head moment

[solid tapir]

Si

[fading cobalt]

I think the max is like 6 or 8 dollars

[pale wolf]

delgrat giving a flat $6 if you dont press the discard button would be so nice

[barren wigeon]

there are very few jokers that I just have never bought in a run

[nova mantle]

Anytime satellite appears it gives like 6 dollars max

[cloud sinew]

thats fine, but are you saying you just never use planets?
satellite should be $1 or $2 at least, typically.

[fading cobalt]

10 if you get the discard joker

[barren wigeon]

seance and delayed gratification are two of them

[fading cobalt]

12 if its below the stake that has 1 less discard

14 if its red deck

Delgrat is kinda busted in some scenarios

[left vigil]

W's

[cloud sinew]

so is everything, doesnt really mean much

[fading cobalt]

Like with a good deckfixing situation its not the worst

[cloud sinew]

the expected value is what matters

[nova mantle]

I do use them, the thing is that I don't find myself using DIFFERENT kinds of them, which is what satellite is asking for

[barren wigeon]

ok but you cant use discards

[pale wolf]

the max is infinite technically

[nova mantle]

Anytime I get a max of 5 or 6 dollars from it

[left vigil]

7x eternal madness

[solid tapir]

the thing is, delayed grat still has a usecase

[fading cobalt]

And if the scenario doesnt need you to use discards (pair build or endgame with good deck) then it doesnt matter

[cloud sinew]

thats better than golden joker wdym 😭

[solid tapir]

if you're not using discards then it is very good

[cloud sinew]

discarding absolutely does matter in those still

[solid tapir]

so I don't think it's like the worst of all time

[cloud sinew]

youre losing ~5 cards seen for every $2 that delgrat makes

[fading cobalt]

It depends

[barren wigeon]

so you have to deckfix or play a pair build for a speculative 12 dollars a round with very specific conditions

[fading cobalt]

But the worst thing about delgrat is you lose all the econ if you discard even once

[fading cobalt]

Yeah well I said some scenarios

[solid tapir]

I think it should be just -$1

[north schooner]

green joker delgrat still sucks because sometimes you do want to use discards

[solid tapir]

losing all the econ sucks fr

[fading cobalt]

Pair build is like one of the most popular choices tho

[pale wolf]

the issue with satellite is that you would think it would encourage you to use planets in celestial packs that didnt hit, but it doesnt outweigh the opportunity cost of overwriting your fool unless you're literally already holding satellite

[cloud sinew]

delgrat being reworked to just be "earn $2 for every remaining discard at the end of a round" instead of relying on not using any discards would be a good enough change for me to not despise it.

[barren wigeon]

you still wanna discard sometimes in pair builds

[cloud sinew]

especially with blue stake rework

[solid tapir]

I would never take random planet cards hoping for a sat later

[nova mantle]

Yeah but golden joker's a common 😭 if I do have satellite early I have not used enough types of planet cards (it normally gives 1 or 2 dollars that time), and if I do find him late I always got a better econ solution, or I just don't need it so I don't pick it

[pale wolf]

theming tho

[barren wigeon]

isnt that just green deck but without the drawback

[cloud sinew]

?

[pale wolf]

no

[cloud sinew]

smeared joker is just checkered deck...

so?

[barren wigeon]

well, fair enough

[pale wolf]

painted is blue with troubador

[nova mantle]

The theme would be lost tho ;((

Name wouldnt fit

[cloud sinew]

how

[buoyant ridge]

straights are just shit

[cloud sinew]

the more discards you use the less money you make

[barren wigeon]

wrong

[solid tapir]

straights are the best

[north schooner]

No, but do you take a backup Mars if the pack doesn't hit?

[buoyant ridge]

but onplasma i always loose

[grizzled jetty]

what does a blank voucher actually do?

[late helm]

lost to violet vessel last run, rekt nerd, flush five run

[pale wolf]

The delayed gratification part is from not touching your discards and then getting a bunch of gratification
if you use the discards and still get gratification then it's not really fitting the theme

[solid tapir]

what are the other options

[pale wolf]

once you buy it 10 times in different runs, it is the first tier to antimatter, a voucher that gives plus one Joker slot

[cloud sinew]

you dont get gratification for the discards you used though

you still only earn $ for the ones you didnt use

[north schooner]

Jupiter Neptune and Uranus

[solid tapir]

I'm taking Uranus

[nova mantle]

Yeah but the delayed gratification would be from not using ANY discard

[cloud sinew]

if i open a mega celestial im taking 2 planets unless i have red card or black hole is there

[left vigil]

W negative skip

[cloud sinew]

???

[solid tapir]

fair and valid

[nova mantle]

Maybe name it slightly late gratification

[north schooner]

Cool, that's another $1 for satellite

[cloud sinew]

it doesnt change anything about the timing of the gratification

[solid tapir]

which is great

My point was that I wouldn't open celestial packs with this mindset "I hope I get a sat later"

[nova mantle]

Erm... delayed mild happiness?

[pale wolf]

I definitely feel like not touching the discards at all is an important part of the theming

[nova mantle]

Exactly

[cloud sinew]

i never said you should do that, it's just that you should take planets if there is absolutely no downside to doing so

[balmy ridge]

take trousers or leave flat mult to bus?

[cloud sinew]

why

[heady narwhal]

really boring joker concept: "earn $2 per remaining hand at end of round"
would this be better or worse than golden joker

[left vigil]

Good score on this build

[barren wigeon]

the gratification is delayed

[nova mantle]

The gratification comes from restraining yourself from using any discard

[north schooner]

With satellite in hand, Buying a $3 planet you don't have out of the shop, or a High Priestess is totally worth it over the course of a run.

[barren wigeon]

you dont spend your jokers

[cloud sinew]

ITS STILL DELAYED 😭

[buoyant ridge]

i think implaying the game wrong

[balmy ridge]

just like edging

[barren wigeon]

LESS GRATIFICATION THOUGH

[solid tapir]

yeye

unless like u said, red card

[nova mantle]

Like, any discard, as in having discipline in not using any discard?

[cloud sinew]

so its not that its delayed, its that the gratification is less.
so the theming is unchanged with it being "delayed gratification"...

[buoyant ridge]

my winrate on gold is like 5% on plasma if i dont resstart the run if it doenst work

[balmy ridge]

hi anyone know

[heady narwhal]

this is true and would be true even if the joker was named something completely different

[solid tapir]

u can do trousers AND bus

[balmy ridge]

they should add joker from the movie joker into balatro

[pale wolf]

because delayed gratification is about not doing small feel good things, so that you get a big reward later
if you're allowed to use your discards then you're getting both types of gratification, delayed and instant

[balmy ridge]

@local thunk

[pale wolf]

getting both types feels not okay to me

[heady narwhal]

the "if no discards have been used" thing is essential to the design

[grizzled jetty]

what do i replace?

[cloud sinew]

would it not be "delayed gratification" still if it converted unused discards -> $ regardless of how many you have already used

[cloud sinew]

you didnt use them, so they get converted

[pale wolf]

delayed gratification is pretty specifically about abstaining iirc

[solid tapir]

playing flushes or straights with certificate ?

[grizzled jetty]

no strat. just playing

[nova mantle]

But the name kinda loses its meaning
It's like if I made vagabond give you a tarot card if you're under 25 dollars
25 dollars is a fair amount of money, in no means do you feel poor as a vagabond while having 25 dollars in balatro

Do you get what I mean?

[solid tapir]

sell banner

for fingies

[buoyant ridge]

i only have a winrate of 5% on any goldstake without restarting the run

[grizzled jetty]

why not drunkard? i dont discard that much

[solid tapir]

you have certificate

you need discards to dig for value

[cloud sinew]

this is a completely ridiculous comparison;
vagabond is that way so you're under all interest thresholds when the hand is played

[grizzled jetty]

its only when the round begins

[solid tapir]

and you will be playing more rounds

so you will have multiple value cards

[grizzled jetty]

right

[solid tapir]

so you will need more discards to dig for them

blue, purple, gold

etc

[left juniper]

Could you not then argue that Delayed Grat not allowing discards is under “all the thresholds” too?

[nova mantle]

But you GET what I mean???? I'm saying that if you make the effects/requirements of the joker too low/high or change them too much, it loses the theming with it's name

[cloud sinew]

i get what youre insinuating i just dont agree with it at all

[nova mantle]

Alright

[solid tapir]

I will agree, delayed grat is on point with how the joker functions

[pale wolf]

delayed gratification letting you discard is having the cake and eating it too

[cloud sinew]

because the concept is still delayed gratification; you could have used more discards but you didnt, and so you get a reward

[nova mantle]

Let's agree to disagree

[cloud sinew]

if you eat half the cake, then yes you have "cake" and you ate it.

[full glade]

Is there a better way to setup these jokers?

[cloud sinew]

i dont see what the issue is

[left vigil]

Synergy!

[nova mantle]

Being on a diet and eating half a burger everyday

[pale wolf]

In the Stanford marshmallow experiment, if you ate half of a marshmallow you would not get a reward

[cloud sinew]

i didnt know that that experiment was the origins of delayed gratification... /s

[left juniper]

All 3 blueprints should be on Trib

[fading cobalt]

We're still talking about delgrat?? 😭

[cloud sinew]

can you elaborate

[full glade]

Anything else?

[burnt topaz]

Balatro won only using jokers with red on the card art.

[left juniper]

No because it’s 8am and I’m going back to sleep but good luck

[left vigil]

Nowhere near 😔 o7

[balmy ridge]

what about geldrat (those who nose)

[fading cobalt]

You're gonna make Voldemort sad with this one

[left vigil]

9.5x eternal madness

[fading cobalt]

Wait that's crazy

[left juniper]

Keep Brainstorm on Sock. The rest legitimately don’t matter lol

[nova mantle]

To be fair tho, I find interesting the possibility of some jokers being restrained with their name/theming in a bad way, making it so that they're weak but reworking them would make them lose it's theme/relation with their card art

[cloud sinew]

balance > theming

[balmy ridge]

what??

[cloud sinew]

no nose

[fading cobalt]

He doesn't nose 😔😔

He feels left out bro cmon

[fervent wolf]

Insane 2 pair level

[full glade]

What do i do to progress further?

[nova mantle]

For example, idol is only good if your entire deck is fixed to a single card, but obviously changing it's functionality would make It lose what makes it iconic

[fading cobalt]

I can't even recognise half your jokers man

[left vigil]

Only kept it because it's the eternal challenge lmao, it has carried

Along with observatory

[marsh compass]

I’ve probably almost thrown my controller like 5 times trying to beat this black deck/gold stake.

[nova mantle]

Ts is frying me you get e11 planet cards on yo consumables 😭

Perkeo is too fun man

[left vigil]

Honestly just cruise. Depending on what point you are at, you can go far

[cloud sinew]

how is the theming of idol and the card art being a tiki idol relevant to it being suit&rank specific

[nova mantle]

Sometimes, if it's a competitive game sure but I think most jokers are fine in their current state

[full glade]

I mean to go further do i take the showman for a chance of negative blue print or is it too risky?

[left vigil]

Didn't the idol used to be called Tiki Idol, or is it just a mandela effect

[nova mantle]

There's gotta be bad jokers so some other ones can shine in their niche

[cloud sinew]

filling their niches well already means that theyll shine, they dont need to be worse than others to be good in their niche

[viral mortar]

rate my jokers

[left vigil]

That's a rarely rare chance my dude, focus on money and maybe you get a negative showman for that. You shouldn't sell anything you already have based on a chance

[nova mantle]

As in, adoring a single being, this case being the one card that idol picks
To be fair tho, it's more that the functionality is very unique and changing it would just have no reason, even if it only shines in endless runs

[cloud sinew]

"would just have no reason" - the reason is so that it's viable in ante 8 in more than 1/400 runs.

[nova mantle]

Every option being viable at all times doesn't mean game balance

[cloud sinew]

i never said "at all times"

i never said anything that even insinuates that

[random ice]

God I love me an Ante 8 bean

[stark karma]

On violet vessel smh

[random ice]

No I wanted vessel

[nova mantle]

Balatro requires some strategy after all, and what if there's a joker that only works in a very niche scenario? The wacky runs that use under-performing jokers are the funniest part of balatro in my opinion

[cloud sinew]

you don't get to choose what you are offered, and also i am fine with there being an optimal strategy; i just dont like that some things are so unreasonably strong and some are so unreasonably weak that both extremes make the game unbalanced

[random ice]

With a photochad Leaf is the run ender sometimes

Wait I had a negative

[nova mantle]

Like making you entire deck 8's and running 8 ball

[random ice]

I'm a dumbass

[stark karma]

Ong

[cloud sinew]

rebate vs showman being either end of the extreme, basically.

[random ice]

The horrifying truth about 8ball is it benefits much more from Hanging Chad than it does from a lot of 8s

Hanging Chad makes a lot of Jokers better

[late helm]

doomed yaoi

[random ice]

Like it's my number one most used joker for a reason

[cloud sinew]

what's your deck like...

cause if there's hardly any faces id take mime here

[late helm]

lol

king

1

[random ice]

LMAO

[cloud sinew]

12/52, alright

[random ice]

Why do you even have a Baron????

[stark karma]

I see your doomed Yaoi and I raise you this

[late helm]

rare skip

[random ice]

Don't do Rare Skip

[cloud sinew]

ante 7, its fine

[late helm]

brings a tear to my eye

[stark karma]

Yeah it’s just sad

[late helm]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its round 1 rareskip why not

[random ice]

Just full skip with the photo

It's ante 7

[stark karma]

I sorta did lol

[random ice]

Photochad is just instant millions

[random ice]

Bye bye econ

[stark karma]

I didn’t pick up the Chad lol

[late helm]

hi hi funny

[random ice]

PHOTOCHAD

You got a shit joker as a result

You got a Baron with 1 King in your deck

And it was perishable

[late helm]

thats why u hold R and pray for better times

[random ice]

Textbook example of why not to take rare skip

[late helm]

I literally only take it in ante 1

[random ice]

Actually the meta is ante 8

Let me explain

[nova mantle]

No game is balanced in all it's choices, and that's what makes them interesting
Let's say, for example, every deck was balanced, there would be no discussion about how hard is beating black deck or plasma deck, or how fun and chaotic is a successful run with ghost deck

[cloud sinew]

i never said i want everything to be perfectly balanced, where did you get that idea from

i want there to not be such a crazy imbalance on both extremes

[random ice]

If you have Anaglyph ante 8 and do a Rare skip without using any of your double tags, you have a 50% chance of getting a BP or a BS

Sometimes that can be a 50% chance of winning so you take it

THAT is the meta for rare skip

[nova mantle]

I find your argument valid, but devoiding a a card of it's theming as delayed grat is not the right way of balancing, maybe buffing it to 3 dollars but keeping the no discards use requirement?

[cloud sinew]

it already is $2

[late helm]

perhaps but when i get a neg bp ante 1 I feel so happy that it cancels out all the obelisks

[solid tapir]

you guys are still talking about delayed grat

[nova mantle]

3* sorry

[random ice]

I take Del Grat sometimes, if I'm playing Pair it's mostly free money

[cloud sinew]

youre still talking about balatro?

let people have fun smh

[random ice]

Like I don't shit on econ, econ is econ. Excluding satellite which is a pyramid scheme

[buoyant ridge]

my op build

[solid tapir]

when did I say you guys couldn't

[eternal anchor]

"Balancing" is a boolean concept to me. If you put 100 grains of sand on one side and put 101 grains on the other side, there's an imbalance in some way

[nova mantle]

I find that there's not that big of a problem with balance

[solid tapir]

delayed grat it up

[random ice]

Del Grat is perfectly fine, and it's a common. It works

[nova mantle]

Maybe some big outliers yeah but you gotta remember there's 150 jokers

[tired dune]

Any tips I can't get to ante 8 it's a bit hard don't know how people do it

[cloud sinew]

it absolutely isn't boolean. if I have $200 and you have $1 there is a larger relative difference than if I had $101 and you had $100

[solid tapir]

fib my beloved

[nova mantle]

I'm not having fun 😭

[random ice]

It's painful not to use discards but $4 is $4 and if you're playing Pair there's really not an issue

[solid tapir]

damn

[random ice]

It's far from the jankiest econ to manage

[solid tapir]

makes sense, we aren't allowed to have fun playing balatro

[random ice]

Like Rough Gem is annoying to minmax

[buoyant ridge]

ez win

[left vigil]

Wheel hit polychrome for the first time in forever

[buoyant ridge]

now im a pro

[solid tapir]

nice

[random ice]

Why are you taking an Ante 1 wheel lmao

An Ante 1 vamp too

Bold strat

[solid tapir]

I see the vision Jack

I believe

[random ice]

It's white stake it'll win

[solid tapir]

ofc

[cloud sinew]

you don't think that there's a crazy difference between the upper and lower extremes of strength?
rebate is a joker you should almost always take, while showman is a joker you should almost never take.

[solid tapir]

[nova mantle]

As in extreme inbalance, but I would argue there being 150 jokers out there, theyre pretty even

[glass creek]

Challenge deck

[random ice]

Ahhhhh

[left vigil]

It was emperor bro

[random ice]

AHHHHH

Ok actually this makes sense

[buoyant ridge]

am i a good player ?

[random ice]

I'm a dummy

[nova mantle]

Nah not really, i always have fun talking about the game tbh

[left vigil]

It's a challenge deck

[nova mantle]

And it helps me improve my vocabulary

[soft trout]

bit late arent we

[cloud sinew]

there being that many jokers doesnt mean that its balanced inherently

[solid tapir]

same

[random ice]

Yeah no I understand now, you actually did the optimal play

[eternal anchor]

I did Bram Poker in 1 try lol

[nova mantle]

Talking with natives to learn a language is so underrated

[left vigil]

This is my first try

[soft trout]

part of growing up is not always being excited over a soul card

[left vigil]

Well well well what are we gonna get today

[buoyant ridge]

how i can improve in this game

[solid tapir]

tbh if your straight levels are high enough you could sell runner and take a peek

[cloud sinew]

watch Balatro Basics

[solid tapir]

watch Dr.Spectred

gold stake lessons

[willow frost]

wish i could do this but im too bad lol

[solid tapir]

it's normal to suck at learning a new language

consistency is needed

and determination

[nova mantle]

But they fill niches, balatro is not that type of game where you worry if a joker should be worth picking up a certain % of times
Let's say you got a photochad build, commons are, well, common, so showman is very good at getting extra copies of those 2
Meanwhile, in this specific niche, invis, while being better almost any other time, is slower in getting extra copies of jokers in this scenario

[cloud sinew]

it absolutely is not slower

[soft trout]

buddy

[willow frost]

eternal faceless was really the move

[soft trout]

ante 8 grimbo pivot??

[soft trout]

it was tbf

[solid tapir]

game winning pivot

[nova mantle]

It is? Rares are scarce, and if you get an invis it only generates 1 copy
And if you keep rerolling with showman you'll find a photo or chad faster this way
I find often that I get 3 or 4 copies of these 2 in the shop while rerolling for an invis if I'm playing something else

[silent veldt]

what do we do if abraham lincoln comes back and becomes evil abraham lincoln

[solid tapir]

theater part 2

[hoary jay]

So im doing a straights run rn. I got a Gros Michel, and it died the round I got it. Then THE NEXT SHOP HAD CAVENDISH

[solid tapir]

nice

[hoary jay]

I love you Michel thank you for this gift

[cloud sinew]

jokers appear ~71.4% in each slot at base, commons appear 70% of the time, and there are at a minimum 59 commons in the pool at any one time [with showman]
that means theres a ((20/28)x(0.7)x(2/59)x100)% chance to get a duplicate of either photograph or chad per slot

[nova mantle]

You don't gotta be perfect to practice! I often used Google translation as assistance before I could be more fluent understanding people, plus the more you chat the less you'll have to rely on other things to be good ;DD

[cloud sinew]

while with invisible joker you will duplicate a joker after 2 rounds, guaranteed

[full glade]

Just got negative hanging chad we are so back

[solid tapir]

I love statistics

good to know

[nova mantle]

What would be the chance of finding a rare in the shop multiplied by the chance of that rare being invis

[cloud sinew]

why are you looking at the chance of finding a rare in the shop

you havent looked at the odds of finding showman in the first place so how is this a fair comparison

[left vigil]

Second nat legendary today? After such a drought too

[nova mantle]

You used this argument for the chance of finding a duplicate of a photo/chad

[cloud sinew]

once you have showman

[nova mantle]

I just want to know the odds

[left vigil]

Well well well

[cloud sinew]

its not a fair comparison if youre comparing the odds when you have the prerequisite for the first scenario vs when you dont for the second

[soft trout]

the peak of balatro gameplay

[nova mantle]

[solid tapir]

perkolator

[nova mantle]

It is fair

By all means

[cloud sinew]

how is it fair

[solid tapir]

cerulean bell is not a real boss

[nova mantle]

You gotta get a joker in both scenarios

[shy abyss]

you gotta get showman though?

[soft trout]

it could be if i was playing straights

[solid tapir]

yes but you weren't

[nova mantle]

Showman or invis, plus, showman is an uncommon and invis is a rare

[cloud sinew]

you have to get showman in scenario A and invis in scenario B, if youre removing finding showman from the equation then its not a fair comparison

[shy abyss]

a specific uncommon is only slightly less rare than a specific rare bc there are way more uncommons

slightly less rare i said that backwards

[left vigil]

Yes time to try not die

[solid tapir]

gl soldier

[left vigil]

Welp I'm gonna die

Found no +mult the entire game

And levels aren't enough

[solid tapir]

unlucky

[left vigil]

Also I found literally no tarots that got me money so perkeo was useless

[nova mantle]

Fair, but the thing with invis is that you gotta get one invis for each copy you wanna make, meanwhile showman allows for multiple copies of photo/Chad to be found and bought before you gotta get rid of showman
That's why I say it's faster, it's more likely to find a showman and then find 3 copies of photo/chad than to find 3 invis jokers

[shy abyss]

you literally have the best plus mult joker in the game in the image you poste

[nova mantle]

That's what I'm referring to, in this case its faster and more likely

[solid tapir]

perkeo is kinda ass early

[cloud sinew]

...? why are you looking at finding THREE COPIES

[nova mantle]

I have 3 free slots

[left vigil]

Okay Ima be honest I misplayed and forgot I had red card

But it's whatever lmao

[buoyant ridge]

loosijg again because of the needle.. this game feels so unbalanced

[solid tapir]

there was a red card ?

[solid tapir]

happens

[soft trout]

immolate in spectral pack?

[solid tapir]

always

[left vigil]

It probably woulda won me it if I had some forward thinking, I think this is on me

[vocal rose]

the choice might seem obvious to some but I don’t think I take eternal cert

[cloud sinew]

thats a stupid comparison because the odds of getting 3 invisible jokers or 3 extra copies of photo/chad via showman are both ridiculously low within ante 8

[solid tapir]

it is

[vocal rose]

black deck is scary

[solid tapir]

[cloud sinew]

like actually 1 in 3,000,000 runs type of scenario

[solid tapir]

take it

[nova mantle]

Why is it stupid

[solid tapir]

and play pairs

[long oxide]

Lol

[cloud sinew]

because your proposed scenario is not based on real world scenarios

[vocal rose]

im on black deck with no scoring if I take it

not guaranteed a blue seal off rip

[solid tapir]

what other option is there

[vocal rose]

I could just straight up pass away

[proven gulch]

straight build with 450 runner and lvl 20 straight :)

[soft trout]

do i like take it and sell chaos to afford card sharp if it isnt an immolate

[vocal rose]

odd todd in the buffoon pack

[soft trout]

fuck it

[nova mantle]

Wym 😭 I've had many runs with these 2 scenarios

[vocal rose]

keeps me alive

[left vigil]

Unfortunate, it would have as well. Welp time for the next run

[shy abyss]

an getting extra chad/photo inst really gonna make a difference in runs

[willow frost]

thanks, i think talking to people is the hardest part for me (i already struggle with that in english) but ill try

[solid tapir]

didn't see the unopened buffoon pack

mbmb

[soft trout]

oh well

[cloud sinew]

youve had MANY RUNS with getting THREE INVISIBLE JOKERS or getting THREE COPIES OF PHOTO/CHAD WITH SHOWMAN, within ante 8?

[willow frost]

card

[cloud sinew]

because this hasnt happened to me ONCE in ~900 hours

[shy abyss]

photo with chad is either worthless or an autowin no in between

[willow frost]

git gud i believe

[solid tapir]

Lilo crashing out

[proven gulch]

ear|y medium :)

[left vigil]

I'm rock hard

[nova mantle]

I often struggle with speaking the most, writing is my strong point but I cannot get my pronunciation right 😭

[solid tapir]

love rocks

[vocal rose]

is this run off to a decent start

[solid tapir]

for sure

mystic and Todd is great

even if it's perishable

[nova mantle]

I sound like a east European with a strong accent

[shy abyss]

you're home free thru ante 2 at least

[cloud sinew]

are you sincerely telling me that this is true? @nova mantle

[buoyant ridge]

f that game im playing my own way

[solid tapir]

just pray the shops give you scoring

[solid tapir]

that's a lot of hit road the's

[vocal rose]

omgg

[willow frost]

yeah that happens with almost everyone lol, speaking clearly and fluently on the spot takes much more practice

[nova mantle]

I should have a photo in my PC where I made a full house with photos and chads

[left vigil]

Do you lot think I can get obelisk to actually be good

[vocal rose]

i have scoring

[solid tapir]

actually blessed

[solid tapir]

I meant for later antes

[shy abyss]

it's a trap

[vocal rose]

hell no

[west copper]

Erm luck issue / j

[cloud sinew]

within ante 8? also you said youve had many runs where this happened

[surreal spruce]

Zoahl

[vocal rose]

brooke

[buoyant ridge]

the tarot joker is literally the worst joker in this game

[willow frost]

lmao

[surreal spruce]

Obelisk being good is the norm

[shy abyss]

you have it ante 1 you can make it ridiculously OP. though marble will get in the way of that

[solid tapir]

there are multiple tarot jokers in Balatro

[surreal spruce]

Bad take

[buoyant ridge]

why

[west copper]

Holy L take

[cloud sinew]

after that many hours, "luck" isnt something you really need to account for. if you flip a coin 20 billion times and it never lands heads then it's statistically significant enough to say "it will not land heads"

[solid tapir]

if you're talking about vagabond then hell no

vaga is amazing

[surreal spruce]

There are numerous worse jokers

[willow frost]

sure

[surreal spruce]

There are worse flat mult scaling jokers

[soft trout]

im so fucking desperate

[shy abyss]

brudda there was literally an attached image with them mousing over the joker they were talking about

[willow frost]

with an arcana pack thats worth it

[shy abyss]

which ones

[west copper]

What is with fortune teller hate today

Holy shit

It’s a good joker

[surreal spruce]

Boots

Swash

[solid tapir]

Never seen someone call fortune teller tarot joker so I got confused fr

[nova mantle]

What I'm getting at is, balatro is a wacky game, and having these kinds of imbalances is fundamental for the funny
And it's not even THAT inbalanced, when you ask people for their favorite joker/strongest one you often find varied responses, this can only happen when you create a strong balance with many options

[surreal spruce]

Flash card is pretty bad

[solid tapir]

regardless, FT is a great joker too

[shy abyss]

boots sure, swash heck no

[solid tapir]

No

[surreal spruce]

Sw*sh is dogshit

Flash is bad

[solid tapir]

Fuck no

[surreal spruce]

Flash redeeming quality is its uncommon tho

[nova mantle]

I'd say localthunk did a good job with the leverage of all these jokers

[willow frost]

nah its good

[shy abyss]

that happens in every game because most people have a poor understanding of most games they play

[surreal spruce]

It’s simply not, the money to mult ratio is bad

Not AS BAD as boots

Tho

[solid tapir]

these takes are coming from the depths of hell

fs

[west copper]

Nobody even mentioned flash card holy attention bait

[surreal spruce]

The only saving grace for flash card is the fact its uncommon

[cloud sinew]

"fundamental for the funny" is absolutely not true. the build variety is fundamental for the funny imo, not the imbalance. making the game more balanced actually increases build variety, and so makes the game more fun

[surreal spruce]

????

[shy abyss]

bc ur thinking about it as scaling mult and not flat mult. it's only scaling mult with two jokers but it's enough flat mult if you having scaling chips or scaling xmult

[solid tapir]

it's a great +mult joker

[surreal spruce]

Are you stupid

[nova mantle]

Yes, this happened 2 times for this case, I only got a picture of 1, no it did not happen within 8 antes, but this is why endless exists

[surreal spruce]

They asked me for what’s worse

For flat mult scalers

Yes no one mentioned it because THEY ASKED ME TO MENTION IT

[nova mantle]

Game in NOT balanced around 8 antes neither for endless, there's many ways of playing it

[cloud sinew]

why does endless matter in a balance discussion???

[cloud sinew]

it absolutely is balanced around ante 8 first

"endless is secondary to ante 8" - localthunk

[surreal spruce]

Yes because I’m comparing it to… other flat mult scalers… which is more realistic to compare the two cause they do the same things.

[shy abyss]

?????

[nova junco]

Sadly you can't balance everything for everything like you gotta choose one, and thunk went with balancing it ante 8

[west copper]

Well why didn’t local thunk keep that in mind for idol lol

[vocal rose]

it’s a playing card in a video game simmer down about your flash card friend

[solid tapir]

FC hate makes no sense

[surreal spruce]

This doesn’t mean anything 😭😭

[vocal rose]

it does since it’s pretty bad

[west copper]

It’s usually attention bait

[cloud sinew]

WRONG

[surreal spruce]

I can show my gold stake baron run doesn’t mean it’s good for ante 8

[eternal anchor]

Flash card is expensive to scale

[solid tapir]

nah

[willow frost]

idol can work in ante 8 actually
very very rare but its possible

[surreal spruce]

Expensive

The money mult ratio is bad

[soft trout]

back to pair slop

[surreal spruce]

It’s not retroactive which means it won’t be perishable but by the time you have the Econ for it to get going it’s usually too late to need a + mult scalers

[shy abyss]

if you have decent eco you are scaling it's naturall

[surreal spruce]

Relative to the other non retroactive ones

[soft trout]

bye popcorn?

[nova junco]

This got me thinking actually, I haven't seen thunk here in a while

[surreal spruce]

Not even cause packs give more value than rerolling outside of some vouchers

[shy abyss]

and you can scale it up in bigger bursts than any other scalar

[surreal spruce]

So you’d want to spend money there

[soft trout]

it's at 12 so wtv

[surreal spruce]

Rather than rerolling

[nova mantle]

Why does the SOLELY the ante 8 discussion matter for balancing? There's endless ways to play the game and almost any jokers can be pushed to be usable and outshine the others in their category
This is the magic of balatro and why it was so ultimately successful, and why I defend so much the idea that imbalance is necessary

[solid tapir]

I think I've only lost 2 of the many flashcard runs I've had on gold stake

[surreal spruce]

Since that just gives better value most times

[solid tapir]

it's a great +mult joker

[shy abyss]

decent eco is buying both packs and rerolling. opening both packs is bare minimum eco

[cloud sinew]

because you said "Game is NOT balanced around 8 antes neither for endless" which is just a complete lie

[vocal rose]

guys I think im having a good run

[surreal spruce]

Only if you have a good Econ joker are you reliably hitting both packs + rerolling

[vocal rose]

flash card has REALLY LOW lows and REALLY HIGH highs

[surreal spruce]

Assuming one shotting the blind + interest you’re gaining 8 a round + the round ending, not including Econ jokers

[shy abyss]

yes, that's decent eco. bare minimum eco is having $25, decent eco is having actual value generators

[vocal rose]

90% of times you are getting swindled out of your money from flash

[solid tapir]

you just need to be smart to know how to use FC fr

[willow frost]

we all do

[nova mantle]

Challenges?? Glass joker would be top tier if you solely considered the challenge where all your cards are glass
If you talk about balancing, it is impossible to only mention one way of playing it, which I'd imagine is ante 8 gold stake in your case

[vocal rose]

woahhhhhh

[willow frost]

well maybe less high highs for me but you know

[shy abyss]

glass joker is top tier in general

[vocal rose]

don’t diss glass joker

[buoyant ridge]

nice run ^^

[vocal rose]

glass joker IS top tier

[buoyant ridge]

soon C++

[nova mantle]

As in, the BEST OF the game if you only consider this challenge in particular

[nova junco]

Egg is the best joker in the game because without it you can't get money in omelette

[west copper]

Me when bad Econ management

[surreal spruce]

Not every game is going to have Econ like this. Yes it has high highs but by the time you can get flash card online for it it is likely already passed by a better joker that can start scaling earlier

[nova junco]

[eternal anchor]

holy oops all 6

[surreal spruce]

Like it has a horrible money to mult ratio

[shy abyss]

and this makes it worse than fortune teller

[surreal spruce]

You need a lot to get it to the same place as others

[willow frost]

im not sure about that 13/5 lol

[vocal rose]

there’s no management there it’s quite literally a $5 to +2 mult

that is a BAD ratio

that argument doesn’t apply there

[surreal spruce]

Tarot joker at least is retroactive which is good in its case cause by the time you’d pick it up you’d be spamming tarots already since that’s what you want to do anyways cause tarots are insanely strong, let alone all the ways you want tarot gen and tarot gen is also just strong

[west copper]

Red card literally has almost this exact ratio maybe even more with jumbos and megas

Why are we glazing

[alpine talon]

GOLDEN NEEDLE BEATEN YESSS

[nova mantle]

YES!!!! EXACTLY THAT IS MY POINT
Considering a single way of playing this game fails to acknowledge that the freedom it gives is the key of the formula of what made balatro so especial

[shy abyss]

the reroll vouchers, chaos, and having value generators to have the money to reroll regularly are also insanely strong

[surreal spruce]

Red card is +3 so jumbos is 6/3 which is 2 per + mult which is .5 better, and mégas include grabbing a card which is essential $4 from the pack + skipping

[nova mantle]

Ante 8 gold stake is not the norm, and I often see lots of elitism from people that only play this way, often bashing peeps who only play white stake

[vocal rose]

💔💔💔

[willow frost]

i swear my friends will not stop glazing eternal egg specifically
i know its a joke but goddamn you dont need to genuinely lose runs for it lol

[west copper]

That’s still barely an improvement from flash cards ratio yet nobody can stop talking about flash cards ratio

[cloud sinew]

"If you talk about balancing, it is impossible to only mention one way of playing it" this is a bad argument because it's impossible not to generalise when you're talking about balance in a roguelike outside of specific scenarios;
that's why the default for balance discussions is ante 8, and then within that it's gold stake. because that's the primary mode that people play

[shell crest]

blue stake is fucking awful, i genuinely havent been angry at a game in the last 5 YEARS until now, this is genuinely awful

[soft trout]

holy fuck the wall almost killed me 😭

[vocal rose]

gold stake ante 8 is definitely the norm

[solid tapir]

skissue

ngl

[pale wolf]

it definitely feels like what the game is balanced around

[vocal rose]

just went right through one ear and out the other

[eternal anchor]

only playing white stake? dunno who does that lmao
At least think of an in-between

[pale wolf]

by all indications and from people that were on the balancing team

[willow frost]

thats rough, what deck

[nova junco]

I will 100% lose a run for it if it's not a stake I still haven't cleared

[west copper]

If it makes u feel better blue stakes getting a rework iirc

[shell crest]

red deck, im just tryna get plasma bro

[pale wolf]

maybe

[surreal spruce]

Reroll vouchers are not that strong, chaos is okay, Econ jokers are better spent elsewhere. And again 2/3 of these are not applicable early game where scaling + mult jokers are the most important because you wanna scale them earlier rather than later. Which the fact that it isn’t retroactive HURTS it here which is what I’ve been saying

[soft trout]

discord is like stopping me from sending a screenshot???

[pale wolf]

restart

[cloud sinew]

what did you call me

[pale wolf]

uuuh shop reroll voucher is pretty good

[soft trout]

it straight up doesn't let me

[solid tapir]

restarted

[cloud sinew]

yeah theyre actually really good idk what brooke is saying

[pale wolf]

not insanely like overstock but still good

[cloud sinew]

they dont crack the top 3 but theyre very valuable

[soft trout]

DUDE

[surreal spruce]

Wdym? Thats a big improvement. And can get online earlier than flash cause you’re taking packs earlier than rerolling, while also scaling harder earlier. Say the avg is $6/3 mult (even tho this is slightly off), you spend $12 for 6 mult where flash would spend 5 + 6 + 7 =18 for $6 which is an entire pack of difference in 1 shop

[willow frost]

well gl with that

[nova mantle]

Lots of people, from the millions that played it you cannot tell me a portion of them only play white stake plasma
Is it bad? Why would it be, it's a single player game after all

[solid tapir]

Brooke is on some of that za I think

[willow frost]

i dont have any usseful advice lol

[pale wolf]

pete-za

[nova junco]

Hi I'm the guy who likes to play low stakes

[pale wolf]

i had pizza today

[cloud sinew]

that is not what normal means though

[shell crest]

this should genuinely be a form of corporal punishment

[willow frost]

lmao

[cloud sinew]

just because some people do it does not mean it is the norm / primary way people play

[pale wolf]

holy fuck i just remembered theres more food in balatro than just the jokers

[surreal spruce]

I disagree I don’t think rerolling the shop is nearly as valuable. They’re okay but not super strong esp early game. I’d rather a good few vouchers of them.

Not actively harmful like some tho

[nova junco]

Wdym more food

[lament crater]

um fuck you please?

[cloud sinew]

nearly as valuable as what?

[shy abyss]

like flash card is obviously worse than red card and usually worse than grimbo/nova/bus but it is situationally very powerful much more often than fortune teller. fortune teller is situationally decent more often sure

[solid tapir]

food themed jokers ?

[surreal spruce]

You have not replied to a single message with anything of value

[cloud sinew]

just because theyre not in the top 3 doesnt mean theyre not good

[solid tapir]

No point

[nova junco]

OH

[cloud sinew]

nacho

[shell crest]

few games ago got triboulet and then landed on a plant 💔

[solid tapir]

don't want to bother arguing with FC hate and rr voucher hate

[eternal anchor]

nacho tong nacho tong nacho tong nacho tong nacho tong nacho tong

[pale wolf]

i guess acorns are food too

[shell crest]

thanks mate

[nova junco]

I hate FC

Not because it's bad or anything I just don't like it/j

[solid tapir]

nut is nut

[lament crater]

and i dont get a single other suit flush

[surreal spruce]

Why do people assume everything is an extreme

[lament crater]

fuck me

[soft trout]

I RESTARTED MY PHONE AND DISCORD STILL DOESN'T LET ME

[surreal spruce]

I’m not saying it’s ass.

I’m not saying I hate it

I’m saying it’s not as good cause it has pitfalls the others in the same category don’t experience

[solid tapir]

calling it bad still doesn't make sense

[cloud sinew]

NOT AS GOOD AS WHAT 😭

[nova junco]

Nobody thinks you did😭

[lament crater]

fuck you?

did you HAVE to be negative

[solid tapir]

neg rebate

[nova junco]

Kids say it with me

[soft trout]

I JUST UPDATED EVEN

[surreal spruce]

I can point out a solid 5 messages that people say I’m hating and all I’m saying is hate

[cloud sinew]

you said "Reroll vouchers are not that strong" and didnt use a comparison point
you said "i dont think rerolling the shop is nearly as valuable" and didnt say what you were comparing it to

[lament crater]

on round 1

[surreal spruce]

What do you mean

[pale wolf]

its the "x is not that strong" and then ambiguity over if you mean as strong as they're saying, or just not strong at all

like yeah they said insanely strong and that's a bit strong wording for that voucher

[soft trout]

oh ok

it works now

whitest run of all time

[lament crater]

on round 1, worst timing ever

[solid tapir]

can still work

if they had the funds

lol

[pale wolf]

💪

[shy abyss]

but we're not comparing it to red/green/bus/nova. we're comparing it to fortune teller, boots, buckler

[nova junco]

Not if you can't buy it lmao

[solid tapir]

exactly

[vocal rose]

flash card is ASS

i’ll be hateful about it

[solid tapir]

ew

[pale wolf]

flash card is a cool negative

[nova mantle]

But you never win with the same jokers 2 times, and if you're gold stickering all of them you'll gotta carry some AWFUL ONES to the end, which creates hardship but also interesting discussions around these jokers and how to make them viable
You won't deck fix enough to make idol useful before ante 8, I get it, but scoring e chips it's also a big accomplishment
Otherwise, people wouldn't have "e234" if they weren't proud of achieving these

[vocal rose]

that’s true

[solid tapir]

I like negative business card

[nova junco]

I think an issue with flash card is by the time you reroll enough for it to be actually good you will have found something better

[modest spade]

Flash Card is a good joker

[cloud sinew]

???

[surreal spruce]

And I said it’s better than some of them and worse than others. I said boots IS just worse. Like relative to its own category of jokers, + mult scalers. It is on the weaker end of them but not the worst. I do think fortune is better though

[shy abyss]

the humble red card carrying 50% of my C++ runs:

[solid tapir]

say it one more time for the non believers

[buoyant ridge]

we did it

[solid tapir]

what the hell happened here

[pale wolf]

i assumed people are sharing their disappointed naneinf failure points

[cloud sinew]

you have moved the goalposts like 6 different times /hyperbole
first you said that gold stake ante 8 isnt the main way people play, which isnt true
now youre saying that its fine for idol to be bad for a8 because people are proud of their highscores?

[pale wolf]

[eternal anchor]

good heavens what in the world did you DO

[hearty kite]

What's the mult amount

[pale wolf]

debug mode

[cloud sinew]

also yes I do win with the same jokers multiple times... I have played thousands of runs.

[nova mantle]

Baron is GOD AWFUL for ante 8
but if you changed the functionality of baron to fit ante 8, one of the biggest strategies to achieve naneinf would be gone

You get what I mean?

[shy abyss]

though in general it is fine for stuff like idol to be extremely situational in the base game bc imbalance is an essential part of roguelites

[pale wolf]

i wonder if i have any similar gold stake run lineups

[cloud sinew]

extreme imbalance ISNT

i am not arguing against there being imbalance, I am arguing against there being such extreme imbalance

[buoyant ridge]

balatro in sandboX mode is so fun

[cloud sinew]

no!
you can rework something without completely gutting it's usecases and highrolls

[eternal anchor]

until it just... isn't

[nova mantle]

Idol was a bad example of what I was trying to say with this, I believe the baron example explains this better

[lament crater]

fuck you again

[solid tapir]

rip

[cloud sinew]

it doesnt. you're stating it as though making it viable for ante 8 requires gutting it for endless, which just is not true at all.

[solid tapir]

you have $27

why didn't you roll for scoring

unless you got that from rebate in the blind

[unborn cliff]

me when i dont roll with plenty of econ

[lament crater]

because i didnt have those 27 bucks beforehand?

[cloud sinew]

you have $27 and youre on plasma at a2 and you couldnt beat the needle... which has the same scoring as the small blind...

[solid tapir]

makes sense

[lament crater]

me when i discard jacks

[solid tapir]

double rip

[unborn cliff]

you still would have had 7 dollars at the very least assuming you drew 4oak jacks

[cloud sinew]

was there nothing you couldve taken to help you survive from a1 to now?

[vocal rose]

oh my god it’s so beautiful

[surreal spruce]

And I have given reasoning for all of it too.

Non retroactive so it can’t be perishable is cool, but then it doesn’t scale till you grab it, but you can’t reroll actively to scale it too hard till the + mult scaling is likely not as impactful as say something that you actively play like grimbo and such, which everyone knows which is not why we’re arguing about that.

But fortune teller which is not retroactive plays into its favor since it won’t scale early game as hard, so the similar boat as flash in that regard, but it will scale while you don’t have it, so if you need a + mult scalers mid ish game it’s more likely going to hit harder to carry you when it’s more impactful to have that bit of + mult scaling already available since packs and tarots are something you already want to be using since they’re strong in their own rights.

Compare either to something like boots and they both have a shit ton of upsides, because neither of them are the worst it’s just one is better though both mediocre/bad relatively to most + mult scalers since the really really good ones are so common to find

[solid tapir]

share the seed

I want to see

[surreal spruce]

Holy yap

Ban myself

[lament crater]

not if i remember

[surreal spruce]

Again

[vocal rose]

W yap

[cloud sinew]

do you have the seed? because im 100% certain that this is not true

[lament crater]

and i kinda relied on flush since it got leveled up to 5 on the way to the needle

[pale wolf]

i still think the idea of idol changing after every played hand is funny

[solid tapir]

I too would like the seed

[cosmic sun]

mid off between flash and boots 🙀

[vocal rose]

they’re saying it’s the most beautiful thing ever

[slow iris]

don't car. holy yap

[unborn cliff]

dusk ❤️

[lament crater]

yeah here 6IM371IV but tbf i might've js missed smth, i'm not the best here

[solid tapir]

ty

[cloud sinew]

i...

[nova mantle]

How would the baron issue be tackled in this case
It's fair if it is impossible tho, but maybe what would be a joker that has this game situation? Where it's useless in ante 8 but useful in endless? and even if they're not useful in both situations, what's the matter? There's some useless jokers that are fun to run if you propose yourself to do it

[cloud sinew]

certificate and square joker

[lament crater]

dont have certificate unlocked

[solid tapir]

I'm playing the seed I didn't want spoilers

[shy abyss]

showman is really the only joker with literally no niche in ante 8, everything else can be useful at least some of the time. should some of the real bad ones be useful more of the time, probably

[solid tapir]

😭

[cloud sinew]

then square joker

[vocal rose]

bro…

[pale wolf]

guh squimbo space

[nova mantle]

Only a little amount of jokers are useless in any case, and also unfun to play, which is the only case I'd see a rework being deserved

[lament crater]

didn't think i'd be playing 4 cards that much personally

[vocal rose]

there’s ALOT to unpack here… what would drspectred do

[lament crater]

and that was so far away icl

[pale wolf]

I mean generally picking up Jokers will change the way you play the game

[shy abyss]

sell photo and wraith 🙂

[cloud sinew]

showman is useless in most cases and unfun generally because it makes your runs worse until it helps, if it helps.

[vocal rose]

OH MY GOD

[soft trout]

run good so far

[surreal spruce]

Things like reroll voucher is cool and all but it’s not something you’re getting early enough to be impactful for when + mult scaling is most necessary, early game, early-mid game. It’s not something you’re realistically going to be buying to make a huge difference before the diminishing returns of + Mult were to take effect full force, (Imo around 30+ish), esp if you’re going hard for FC early to make it work.

Tho chaos is very good with it and FC can work. It just has downsides

[lament crater]

i js kinda didnt wanna pick that early on since its also an eternal and im insecure about eternal so early on

[surreal spruce]

And banned ggs

Yap session over

[pale wolf]

aah thats the type of eternal you want though

its hand agnostic, scaling, and reliable

[lament crater]

hm., i will remember that for next time!

[nova mantle]

I can't find a way to make baron useful in ante 8 while not gutting it in endless

[shell dagger]

5 new stickers, another chips build that could’ve beat vv if I drew enough straights yikes

[lament crater]

sorry then ig

[pale wolf]

where all the score from

[shell dagger]

Runna

[surreal spruce]

Runna

[pale wolf]

and

[cloud sinew]

by "gutting it in endless" you mean it isnt reasonable to naneinf with it right?

[shell dagger]

+525 with level 22 straight

[lament crater]

kinda didnt wanna pick bean in that situation due to low money in my case and i was thinking more into saving for interest

[nova mantle]

Most though not all
If a joker has a use case, it's worth it, unless it's mad miserable

[pale wolf]

huh

[surreal spruce]

Jesus

[lament crater]

is that valid?

[pale wolf]

that's a lotta straights

[soft trout]

...fuck

[shell dagger]

I had 4f for most of the run

[nova mantle]

And showman is far from this imo

[nova mantle]

Yes

[unborn cliff]

noob

[slow iris]

drspectred giving a whole lecture about how you shouldn't move Jolly Joker 1 spot to the right just to do it anyway

[shell dagger]

Grew one back and took showman instead

[soft trout]

i will never win a gold stake run...

[pale wolf]

i really dont think baron needs a change tbh

[cloud sinew]

showman is SO close to it.
showman is a horrible joker to keep around the vast majority of the time

[wintry ice]

hi chat

[shy abyss]

no showman is it

[pale wolf]

vic

[wintry ice]

striped donkey

[nova mantle]

As, a solution to make baron a worthwhile pick, EVEN if it's niche or not always useful in ante 8, while keeping it's capability to be a tool for naneinf

[pale wolf]

no

[unborn cliff]

i love green joker

[pale wolf]

I'm the og equine

[slow iris]

showman is awful i don't wanna see men i want to see women

heh.

[still frost]

Just get rid of Naneinf ngl

[lament crater]

except the few times where it actually works

[eternal anchor]

showoman

[cloud sinew]

"has a use case" so even if its 1 in 40 million runs you think its still fine for it to be a joker?

[slow iris]

my wife left me btw

[vocal rose]

I love the feeling of playing well

[nova mantle]

But no other joker fills it's niche
If other did, id say yeah rework it so it's more even

[pale wolf]

swap the o and w in showman

[shy abyss]

i dont think there is any situation where showman saves an ante 8 run without the benefit of foresight. it's only ever a win harder joker and outside of that it's actively negative

[shell dagger]

women shouldn’t be silenced

[lament crater]

shwoman!

[serene forge]

I hate Photograph

[vocal rose]

god I love women

[nova mantle]

Yes, and I do not know any joker that only works in 1 in 40 million runs

[wintry ice]

perkeo maybe

[serene forge]

same

[cloud sinew]

its hyperbole for the sake of the argument

[vocal rose]

racism is bad

[serene forge]

baron probably

[still frost]

Endless Jonkler - Rare $10
^2 mult if you have defeated a finisher blind, retrigger this for each ante you have cleared

[wintry ice]

do you know any joker that knows what a hyperbole is