ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31

[minor falcon]

can we get a flag if we bet correctly the 24 flags of the top 5 ?

[ember relic]

real nice

been working on granny for two days trying to match the models

and now i notice im not using pretrained weights

[ornate marsh]

did last year's participants also have a discord channel to commiserate with one another?

[ember relic]

yes

[sturdy gorge]

Even loading the weights i cant match the models 😦
Tried more than 30 at this points

seems like bruteforcing the api is gona be the way

really eager to see the solutions this year, to have a chance to actually try for a medal next year

[ember relic]

tbh i cant even match the pytorch pretrained ones with the keras one 😂

[random minnow]

"i cant even match the pytorch pretrained ones with the keras one" of course you can't. they are not the same one

in the first place, waht makes you think they are the same? second you can easily check if they are the same or not. lastly, google can esaily help

[ember relic]

i dont know, i guess im not touching grass enough these days

[sturdy gorge]

tried keras, torch and kaggle models, no match 😔

[brave briar]

has someone reached a perfect match ?

not sure it is possible, they also could do an extra train batch

[sturdy gorge]

looking throught the chat several people have claimed a match

in my case, not even remotly close tho haha

[ember relic]

it shouldnt be a match right out of the box

but what worries me is do i have to try out all of the models to find out which one is on the api?

[glass bay]

check the prompt

[glass bay]

i did, up to 5 digits with some sorcery. turned out useless

[ember relic]

let me rephrase

i know what model to use but not what weights

given that there are multiple pretrained ones

[glass bay]

there are? i did not know that

assumed it to be the default and that it is the only one

[ember relic]

so far i've found 3 official versions

since keras and pytorch dont match

[brave briar]

keras and pytorch don't match after preprocessing ?

[ember relic]

i didnt check that

i checked only the weights

is the preprocessing different between the two?

[brave briar]

yep

[ember relic]

damn

didnt know that

thanks

[hard perch]

Is pickle an LLM? That seems the only plausible thing considering no actual code executions. Surely the most frustrating problem

[past brook]

but none of them match with the API scores 😛

[ember relic]

yea but thats not my concern

[sturdy gorge]

cant understand what im suposed to do on pixelated

OCR is working fine on whatever text i give it, just no clue what to give it

[light mulch]

There was some interesting discussion already about preprocessing. I found the comments by hengck23 very interesting. But I have to say I also have not found the model yet.

[ember relic]

i know and im following them

whats bothering me is i dont know if every pretrained model (keras, pytorch imagenet v1, v2) will work if i find the right preprocessing

[topaz ember]

The host said somewhere in this chat, that the difference between the mobilenet implementations is not expected to contribute much.

[glass bay]

yea that's getting hinty

[ember relic]

thanks, it helps a lot that i don't need to implement this stuff in tensorflow

[topaz ember]

You're welcome. See this conversation for more details: #ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31 message

[random minnow]

"The host said somewhere in this chat, that the difference between the mobilenet implementations is not expected to contribute much."
i don't recall reading that. which exact message by the host are you refering to?

image adversial attack are divided into black box and white box. you should google about them

[topaz ember]

See link above.

[random minnow]

be careful. i would only say, there are methods that require for you to know the model (+ other processing) completely and methods that doesn't (complete no knowlege). there are in-between methods as well (i.e. partial knowledge). in short, google more to find out what methods you want to use and the necessary conditions to make them work

[topaz ember]

yeah, everyone is free to make their own interpretations of what host says

more knowledge is better of course

[light mulch]

Finally got Granny1 🥳

Congrats for place 1, Yuri 😉

[queen garden]

Insane ! Good luck on the last 2 🙂

[craggy beacon]

Thx. I'll try, though I think the last 2 challenges are somewhat broken.

[final path]

Wow, that's very impressive! @craggy beacon

[pallid trench]

any hint on granny 1 pls.

[light mulch]

read this discord channel 😉

[modern anchor]

Which ones left for you @craggy beacon

[sturdy gorge]

Any resources for pixelated? Really cant understand where to go, i can get the OCR do detect any text, just no idea what to give it

[final path]

ask chatgpt to brainstorm about it

[minor falcon]

I officially give up, silver is not that bad 🥲

Good luck for the tryharders of the last week!

[gaunt anchor]

I am happy with silver also, a gold will be better (I need a solo gold) ... it seems so close to achive yet so far ! I hope I have it to go through this another week !

[outer sundial]

Is solo gold required for Expert to Master ?

[lyric token]

GMaster

[gaunt anchor]

for grand master ... but its a gold in the end

And I am so close yet so far :/

[minor falcon]

what I have been telling myself for the past ~~two ~~ 3 weeks

[outer sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/cervello-brain-swing-sleeping-gif-8821767

After reaching 22 points.

[fallow valve]

Congrats @craggy beacon
Hard to keep up with😂

[sturdy gorge]

desperatly trying to get granny 1 and 2 for a measly bronze
alas, no luck

[brave briar]

granny 1 is so slow ... It s such a pain !

[rocky jacinth]

Yes, anyone currently outside bronze will probably need to get to 20.

[light mulch]

Only one more for me then. Might be doable 🙂 Semantle 2 at 0.97 and some ideas for pickle and pixelated.

[past brook]

Im 20 but im trying for silver

I got all the annoying ones left. Granny 1/2 are the most likely ones for me

Maybe inversion

Im not sure CIFAR is even worth trying from what ive seen in the chat

[sturdy gorge]

Yeah.. betting on granny 1/2 and pixelated

[cloud prawn]

Congrats @craggy beacon on 25 - Very impressive! My guess is final 2 are granny3 and hush. But will be interested to find out after the competition.

I've got to ask because it's been killing me. @gusty warren When you made this comment was around the time when you solved passphrase. I now and realizing you might have been referring to something different all together. Am I reading too much into it?

[thorny ivy]

No idea you were here, lol I've saw your YouTube video and it was great about the last year competition, thank you

[cloud prawn]

Thanks, glad you liked the video! I've been lurking and posting be few memes 😄 - I feel like my video from last year wasn't well organized but hoping to do one again this year and put more time organizing my thoughts beforehand.

[ember relic]

If its not a secret, which 2 are you still working on?

[thorny ivy]

Can you imagine if there are people with 25 or even someone with 26 waiting for the last day, last minutes to submit? Lol

[final path]

its too risky strategy 🙂

[light mulch]

It is a valid strategy to keep it secret. If he tells what he solved the other top contestants can focus on this "solvable" task, instead of spreading their attention.

[minor falcon]

not valid now that we are close to the end. Someone that would have had 25 flags keeping it secret would just have lost the first place

[light mulch]

I meant of course submitting but not telling in this chat what he solved...

[ember relic]

what is happening with the granny endpoint?

its never been this slow

[minor falcon]

ah sorry, yes keeping the information secret is indeed a good strategy at that point 👍

[light mulch]

I mean he posted it for like 5 seconds but then wisely deleted the message 😄

[abstract rose]

No, continue please, with who will I complain about Inversion if you're not here.

[minor falcon]

all those people (edit: made a mistake and included some people from the club 23, mb)

[brave briar]

hey @olive ledge or @limber flower, may you have a look at Granny 1 ? It seems it is down 80-90 % of the time. Thx

[ember relic]

works ok now

not sure what changed

[sand veldt]

R.I.P 22.

[sand veldt]

if anyone fills in the last spot of prize zone, I give up

[light mulch]

now i feel the OCR pain of the previous posters 😤 😄

[final path]

why do you think prize zone is limited by 24? 🙂
get 25 and you'll be 2nd

[minor falcon]

next 24 should indeed secure a prize, just because its unlikely that another 23 will get 2 flags in such a small amount of time I guess

[rocky jacinth]

I am surprised! Seems like WTF5 got fed up with our conversations and spat out the flag.

[grave frigate]

How can you be so sure

[minor falcon]

i am not sure, there is probably exceptions, but from what we can interpolate from the people and discussions here, appart from a few outliers that solved inversion or passphrase, most of the people with 22 flags are stuck on passphrase/inversion/hush/cifar/grany3.

• it was more a joke than something else 😅

[grave frigate]

😂😂

[grave frigate]

I guess yeah

[gusty warren]

Lol, I litterally just subscribed to your YT channgel and then saw you here. What I meant is litterally what I wrote: the vocabulary/dictionary I used to search was likely too small so I ran out of good candidates to try. Fixed that and got the flag before long.

[severe pasture]

new hint just dropped

[grave frigate]

The what
Passphrase has been solved!!??

[gusty warren]

TBH though, I may or maynot be misleading you all unintentionally. My solution is quite stragith forward and I believe many people should have tried the same thing. I am very surprised that many people still can't solve passphrase, I am starting to suspect that I did something different that I am not even aware of...

[grave frigate]

DJ Khaled: suffering from success

[minor falcon]

You might also have got all stars aligned at the right moment :p

[cloud prawn]

Thanks. That at least confirms some of the things I've been trying. But passphrase has been really tough for me and I've gone down many dead ends. At least that confirms my suspicions about your previous comment.

[gusty warren]

exactly, it could be mere luck that I hit a lottery ticket

[minor falcon]

I wish i got it on inversion ahaha

[gaunt anchor]

imagine a lottery ticket in granny3 ....

[minor falcon]

i think for passcode a lot have been said also in the past that could mislead many people

granny3 i have a last idea that i could have tryied, but it implied mounting a cluster of server to query more efficiently :p

[craggy beacon]

but it is not a dumb luck like lottery ticket you acted using your knowledge and with a bit of luck you got the flag

[minor falcon]

i think the luck is the thin layer that allows you to not wrongly deny a direction because of a dumb error/missing info on some kind of postprocessing

pickle is a very good example of it: you miss the sweat spot, you can end up into a hell of complexity

[violet trellis]

Luck is just when your cat jumps on keyboard and solve granny 3 unintentionally. And yeah, you just call it a day.

[thorn quarry]

Does the static flag in inversion mean anything or is it just a random letters?

[sand veldt]

just rent A100, it's enough to exhaust all during lunch. what blocks me is what's to optimize

[minor falcon]

what i need is not cpu/gpu time, but different ips :p

[sand veldt]

ddos could cause ban LOL

[minor falcon]

when you run multiple kernels on different tasks (or on the same task with different seeds/approachs), you do exactly the same

[sand veldt]

well, it's a matter of scale

[random minnow]

"what i need is not cpu/gpu time, but different ips :p "
you need to reduce your search space by working on the most probable pixels

[minor falcon]

yep I know, but I would have tryied another way that I think could be promising giving my current view of the problem but that I will not implement in any case because I am too lazy :p

[sand veldt]

hope granny3 is not the same as cifar, which can only solve by api call

[minor falcon]

? cifar is the exact problem that cannot be brutforce

[sand veldt]

yeah, but everytime need to call api to check

can anyone optimize cifar locally?

[hard perch]

Give me a little direction of the sweet. Otherwise sweating a lot

[random minnow]

there is a new kaggle competition

so maybe there will new attack for next CTF: fool LLM text detector

[thorny ivy]

It was not complex? Then what should I do with my 10000 lines of code to solve it, just kidding, I'm already lost there, but I'm dangerous 😂

[hexed plover]

has there been any clarification on passphrase? I managed to target specific scores, but I didn't get any flag.

[ember relic]

there have been some hints in this chat

i havent even tried to solve it so i have no idea if theyre useful

take a look here

[hexed plover]

Thanks!, i'll take a look

[viral bough]

I'm losing it with bruno and [e-mail]

No idea what to do

[viral bough]

I got IP1 🙂

and IP2, yay!

just messaging here gets me closer 😄

[sand solstice]

IP is baffling at first, but you learn a bit and both fall pretty quickly together

[acoustic temple]

you need to keep balance, not so dangerous, not so safe 🙂

[minor falcon]

looks like the 5th spot for money has been taken. Good luck to the people targeting the 25 flags now!

[gaunt anchor]

there is still a week ... you never know ... for CIFAR and Passphrase its once you see it you get it .. so the flags for both are floating in the air ...

[craggy beacon]

have you solved CIFAR?

[gaunt anchor]

congrats @severe pasture

no I didn't I tried in two diffrent domains (or directions) ... nthn so far

everytime I think I have something that fit ... its try again ... CIFAR could have logically different answers ... but there is only one answer will get the flag :/

[random minnow]

"looks like the 5th spot for money has been taken. Good luck to the people targeting the 25 flags now!"
the doctor cannot save all patients.
we cannot solve all problems.
that 's the reality of life...

we can only try our best and there is always the next time

[gaunt anchor]

there is still a week , then break ( I hope) till the santa challange next month !

however the llm detecting ai generated text seems intersting ... no break 😄

[past brook]

is there any forum or website where you can find AI security competitions?

I really enjoyed this one, but I stumbled upon it on accident 😆

[light mulch]

I can join you in complaining. been staring at ghostly messages all day. 😄

[final path]

are there any doctors who could help with brain damage from CIFAR? 🙂

[unborn sail]

maybe that's the way it should be solved XD

[sand veldt]

cifar is actually fun, guessing other's mind. like guessing other's ins password

[olive ledge]

There is last years competition! Checkout the discussion boards.

[abstract rose]

Thanks, I feel not alone now 🙂 Today, like yesterday, I don't if I should submit the message from the AI "as is" or if I need to pass TOEFL first

[minor falcon]

We'll all know in a week

[light mulch]

I am probably not that far yet. I still struggle with 4,5,7 like previous posters.

[modern anchor]

Semantle2 done finally. Was stuck on 0.98 for a long time

[ember relic]

finally matched the granny 1 model

god am i stupid

[gaunt anchor]

you are not ... you just didn't see it

A week later when we see how CIFAR is solved ... we need to say "oh ... we didn't see that" ... its better than god I am stupid for wasting daaays

[sturdy gorge]

aheems

still have not been able to match it

[ember relic]

im also somewhat weirded out by this model matching

because i would have sworn that i already tried what turned out to work

i guess revisiting old ideas when youre well rested makes sense

[naive umbra]

I was able to match the model yesterday. Hopefully I can finish it tomorrow.

[sturdy gorge]

starting to think the problem is not the weights but the preprocessing zzz

[past brook]

im gonna try model matching aswell, cant get black box to work though there is probably some way around it

[past brook]

Haha, I've already gone through the solutions for last year too many times 😆

[hard perch]

In pytorch or tf?

[ember relic]

im not sure if im allowed to say hahaha

[hollow coyote]

MNIST: 'Try again!' 😡

its so hard to shake off the idea I attempted because I feel like its the only thing that makes sense. Got myself stuck in some local mind optima

[limber flower]

I believe in you. You can do it 🙂

[ember relic]

FINALLY

CLUB 23

LETS GO BOISSSSS

[thorn quarry]

CIFAR 10 or CIFAR 100?

[final path]

who knows 🤷‍♂️

[random minnow]

"CIFAR 10 or CIFAR 100?" the answer is the 7 th part of the inversion static flag solution and 8th part of the hush static flag solution

[amber sage]

sloth

[light mulch]

Congratulation! So you also solved inversion?

[gaunt anchor]

I happy with sliver ! ... I ran out of ideas for the last four ... and I am exhausted :/

[orchid sundial]

Feel you! 10 days of passphrase and still don't know what the objective is

[amber sage]

hush needs a static flag?

[light mulch]

Finally i got inversion! 🥳

was really fun

[lyric token]

Congrats! Did you get a high score for 4,5,7? or it is impossible?

[abstract rose]

Great! Still stuck here, I don't understand the way to generate static flag from what the AI is trying to tell

[light mulch]

I would love to discuss, since I really enjoyed the problem, but i think it would be too much.

[ember relic]

yep, solved it a few days ago

i see youve solved it as well, nice

[light mulch]

What do you think is a good candidate to work on for 24? I havent yet tried CIFAR at all but what I read, it seems impossible.

[final path]

passphrase probably. there are some recent hints in a chat, may help

[ember relic]

either cifar or passphrase

i had way too many logical ideas for cifar but none seem to work

[light mulch]

Is there some evidence for solved Granny3, Cifar or hush in this chat?

[ember relic]

its more of you either see it or dont

[ember relic]

cifar has been solved

moo mentioned it a while back #ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31 message

[light mulch]

yesterday, or so, some 24 on the leaderboard was renamed granny3. But probably trolling or? 😄

[ember relic]

waaait

weve got another 24 on the leaderboard

[light mulch]

yes 😄

but there is still room for 24 gold 😉

[ember relic]

thats what im hoping for

[severe pasture]

everytime I've changed my name it's been to troll lol

[mild shale]

Hi

everybody

its good to rejoin the party

[cloud prawn]

Looks like you figured it out 😄

[orchid sundial]

Nah, passphrase is my nemesis. Solved another task 😄

[cloud prawn]

Nice work!

[naive umbra]

0.9999921321868896, 'Granny Smith' please tell me I'm close

[past brook]

there are alot of clues in this channel, I suggest reading through the chat history

[pearl pawn]

I cannot solve MNIST and CIFAR. I can't believe I can't even count.

[naive umbra]

Got 1.0 prediction for granny smith but no flag...

and I got the flag

finally

And granny2 is also solved. Finally I can enjoy my weekend haha

[gaunt anchor]

I miss old days .... what old days ? ... when flags used to show up 😦

[final path]

17 days ago, as for me

[ember relic]

try rerunning one of the solved problems

[minor falcon]

i was checking my old notebook, my brain is fucked up, I get a dopanin shot when I see a output starting with {"flag":"gAAA.."}

are you guys going to other comps after this one ?

[acoustic temple]

I'm already joined UBC-OCEAN, but not submitted any yet

[mild shale]

yeah, i just got 18 flag in 2 days, its so sad now

[sturdy gorge]

gona start enefit next week

[ember relic]

this is a marathon not a sprint

[unborn comet]

Was anyone else getting sporadic 504 timeouts for WTF? WTF3 in particular?

[ember relic]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

me on cifar:

[random minnow]

this is my sole opinion and maybe most would not agree. while the CTF tasks could be made more difficult, i prefer team work and also discussion. we all can go further+faster in a team and discover more security bugs . it seems that everyone is stuck.

[craggy beacon]

but we have learned more that way because you can't delegate some stuff to others

[nimble matrix]

how can I convert the image or tensor to base64 string for granny?

[ember relic]

#ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31 message

[nimble matrix]

@ember relic Thank You!!

[fallow valve]

[sand veldt]

{"message": "An unexpected error occurred in scoring script. Check the logs for more info."}, I wish I can check logs

[glass bay]

@olive ledge @limber flower

[thorn quarry]

I'm trying to understand the connection between sentiment scores and the passphrase(password) concept but no luck so far

[olive ledge]

Looking…

[olive ledge]

Didn’t see anything particularly bad, service is still up. Check your inputs 🙂

[nova pelican]

For those with 20+ {"flag":"gAAAAABl==GG-YourFire!"}

[lost relic]

I went to the shower and I have an idea for passphrase, no joking 🙂

[fervent obsidian]

Is this relevant to something you see in a shower environment? 🙂

[abstract rose]

Inversion endpoint looks bad: "{'message': 'The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Either the server is overloaded or there is an error in the application.'}

[waxen lynx]

Inversion is unstable since friday to me.

[abstract rose]

Adding retry annotation around the query helps to workaround

[spice hawk]

Me trying to relate to all this bathroom stuff

[acoustic temple]

but did your idea worked ? since a week I have idea strike but all fails 🥲

[ember relic]

i had an idea for passphrase but its really hard to find a sentence with the same sentiment while keeping in mind the constraint

[lost relic]

I'm still working on it.

[mild shale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2ZK8pdmXg

right now

[nova pelican]

Where's Grok @ with all its math might.

[timber lake]

Why does hush sometimes returns 2 elements whereas sometimes 12?

[hollow coyote]

Would love to know lol

[timber lake]

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-viralhog-relax-rest-dog-gif-12157983384879422243

now 9..

[amber sage]

still, I cannot count.

[tribal plank]

I wonder how simple it is.

[pearl pawn]

Me too bro

[queen garden]

looks like it worked 🙂

[amber sapphire]

Finally got Mnist...can't believe was so simple 🤯

[mild shale]

i atleast wanna know if the riddle really helps us find it or not

[timber lake]

oh sweet semantle! finally

[naive umbra]

i'm at 0.97 for semantle2. I'm hoping I can get it before the comp ends.

[eternal island]

@naive umbra check this out

[naive umbra]

Got the flag for semantle2!

[acoustic temple]

so close and still so far in Inversion, I can't understand what is it, and also can't give up at the same time, strange feeling 😅

[hollow coyote]

This hurts so much

[rocky jacinth]

Count Dracula is gentle and harmless compared to Count Mnist, and as for Count Cifar ...

[ember relic]

So close yet cifar

[queen garden]

Great prompt for a challenge for next year

[random minnow]

just a quick question. i am also taking part in other kaggle competitions. but i find that their discord channels are pretty quiet.
am i right to say that that is the norm? and this discord channel is unusually active?

[devout jasper]

because we suffer together

😄

[olive ledge]

IT WAS THE FRIENDS WE MADE ALONG THE WAY

[minor falcon]

I guess part of the reason is that we cannot spam the discussion threads for medals for this comp, so we all came back to shitpost here instead

[lost relic]

No 😦 still working on passphrase, I solved hush

[nimble matrix]

Why is my shower not giving me any flag

[thorny ivy]

I've learned to follow a path of continuous suffering in this competition.

just kidding... or maybe not 😆

[valid cobalt]

I would have gone to the moon, if there were a hint of cifar there.

[random minnow]

"Why is my shower not giving me any flag"
you took the shower at the wrong date

time, place, person

[minor falcon]

maybe we can build a model to find optimal shower parameters to get ideas

[amber sapphire]

Keep oscillating between "not so dangerous" and "to much dangerous"...

[lost relic]

shower thoughts confirmed!!!!!!

[light mulch]

Wow! Congrats to 2nd place!

[tribal plank]

啊？

[fallow valve]

congrats

I think two with 25 is enough though😅 👀

[tribal plank]

I think 26 is possible.

Apple should be the most difficult one.

[craggy beacon]

because only one unsolved is granny3 pbly

[tribal plank]

Because of the existence of easter egg.

[past brook]

Im going for a walk, I better see a flag when im back

[ember relic]

man the amount of walks ive taken in the past week

it doesnt work most of the time

[cloud prawn]

Is this confirming you solved CIFAR? 🧌

[ember relic]

whats up with this message

i got the same

[jagged sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/whack-a-mole-cute-cat-funny-gif-14926253

[glass bay]

imo the challenge creation process for granny3 was as follows:
||get an image, do stuff to lower accuracy, add this god forsaken pixel, lower accuracy more, remove the pixel||
and if that happens, ||imo, there is a solution, but it is somewhat degenerate in the sense that it would be out of place in the reference to the original, or after-second-lowering image structure, thus leaving it be in a part of search space that has no locality or continuity or something||
'cause otherwise the answer would've been found already by many people since the papers' algorithm ||uses locality and continuity that are coming from image structure, that may have been destroyed during the perturbations and|| may be useless here, requiring new approaches

[final path]

it was 10k$ shower 🙂 congratz!

[minor falcon]

I think they just performed the 1 pixel attack on multiple images until they found one for which the pixel attack worked and provided a very different class from the original image

[glass bay]

then they would not have been sure that the flag is obtainable

[minor falcon]

why not ? The pixel attack can be performed from the whole pipeline of the model, including the preprocessing

• it has been said by the organiser that a match of the model is not necessarly needed (they didnt use it to test the challenge)

[glass bay]

then it would have worked for someone already

certainly the wolf image has been artificially altered for that exact model to give 28% acc because of the way that it is recognized by other models with 80+%

[tribal plank]

but I still do not know why this processing prevent differential evolution

[minor falcon]

For me its just that there is a lot of local minima, hence its very difficult to optimize.

[past brook]

meanwhile im not even able to solve granny1 with black box attacks 😂

[minor falcon]

I think I know why DE is not working well and I have a suggestion of algo to try for granny3 that I am now lazy to implement and that would take a lot of time and calls, i'll be happy to discute it once the competition ends

[queen garden]

I have some thoughts on g3 as well but will wait for competition end to share, as should everybody 🙂

[glass bay]

there are alternate algos indeed yet imo DE should work best

that's the thing i was trying to say above - that global minima may be in an unfindably small region and have nothing promising say 1px to the side and 10 units of brightness lower/higher and no way DE or something like that will find that

[pearl pawn]

Finally I got MNIST flag. I didn't expect this answer.

[sturdy gorge]

Same boat haha, no Blackbox and can't replicate model

[severe pasture]

another 25 👀

[gaunt anchor]

its going to be a looooong three days ! 😄

[light mulch]

How can you even figure out what the output of hush means. Crazy 😅

[cobalt flint]

pickle is just so soul crushing... doesn't make sense to go for any other challenges since pickle is apparently so much easier than them, and here i sit having sunk 20+ hours into trying to be dangerous by sending pickles to a server where no code is executed... and no feedback is given. at least for mnist we know we have to count something. really not a fan of challenges where the goal is not given. rant over

[jagged sluice]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

vinegar + salt + sugar + cucumber + spices

stick in jar

[olive ledge]

But do you understand what is or isn’t dangerous?

Simply having a pickle file that executes code ISN’T necessarily dangerous.

For the same reason you can’t email PE files into anyone with even a smidge of security.

[tribal plank]

I solved pickle really by thinking how waving keyboards works...

And I still do not know why my solution is accepted.

[cobalt flint]

Any of my attempts going even slightly in the direction of code execution get flagged as dangerous, and even some that don't, making me eliminate that as a potential means to being more dangerous, and then there is nothing left in hand. Anyway, I am not looking for hints, just needed to rant.

[olive ledge]

This is actually a great hint.

[jagged sluice]

hint: wireless keyboards are a godsend

attach to pole and hang outside

boom

flag

[gaunt hollow]

being a complete newbie in AI security, Kaggle, or even coding, I can tell you there’s a straightforward answer. In fact, there’s a webpage that has a copiable answer. All you need is Google search

btw I have no idea on MNIST at all lol

[random minnow]

https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/06/app-store-for-ai-build-your-own-gpt-and-sell-it-on-openais-gpt-store/

my idea is to let chatgpt to read all messages in this discord discussion and kaggle forum

then we can make a kaggle CFT tutorial app

[random minnow]

the important think is the "chain of thought" : how the winner thinks of this so0lution? and this is waht most people want to learn

we can ask winner to contribute their chain of though, solution code experiment results, what worka nd dose not ...etc . all content contributer for the app get gat paid roalty.

ultimately we want an app to give hint (not full solution) to guide us step by step

[jagged sluice]

so just gpt4

but finetuned?

[olive ledge]

Prompt-Engineered. .

[jagged sluice]

time to make AIV-7b a thing

[fervent obsidian]

all those pickles will be lost in time

just like my tears in the shower

[tribal plank]

The legendary shower should be encapsulated into an AI model

[minor falcon]

talking about gpt4, there has been an update, the current knowledge cutoff is now april 2023

[acoustic temple]

is passphrase really about to having a sentence which return 0.3333 for each sentiment?
I can't understand what question asked for

"a difference sentence where everything is equivalent"
is it sentiment score? sentence meaning? none or both ⁉️

[random minnow]

why his shower works

[olive ledge]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874882/

[past brook]

When you manage to get a different output you are generally on the right track in these types of challengers

[light mulch]

Just got an idea for passphrase, but did not shower. So it's probably wrong. 😄

[queen garden]

Omg, finally got passphrase. No shower needed

[ember relic]

congrats

[light mulch]

Congrats! What changed since this "ancient" message? The recent hints? 😄

[queen garden]

Ahaha this message was on the 1st day of the comp so a lot changed. Regarding hints, I do not think qihuaz shared too much. What helped me is trying ideas and actually convincing myself that I had already invested too much time on this to give up - since passphrase is doable

[ember relic]

idk how you can start solving anything before you solved cifar

im too pissed off to start anything else hahaha

[light mulch]

Cifar is too frustrating. Twice a day I think I finally have the solution. Code it out for 10 minutes and only get "Try again!"...

[gaunt anchor]

I have a final idea to passphrase I going to try ...

[acoustic temple]

Is English your native language? And does it help to understand what question asked for ?

[ember relic]

i havent solved passphrase but just a heads up

in case you didnt see there was a different prompt for passphrase in the first few versions of the notebook

myb it helps

[light mulch]

are you refering to the ctf-starter-aiv notebook?

[hexed plover]

i appreciate a lot the effort on developing this ctf. But I really don't see any value on these obscure tasks. It is better to have a hard objective than an easy objective that with unclear instructions, it is just frustrating 😦

[ember relic]

yep

[acoustic temple]

Just checked. Didn’t find any difference. All of them are “My secret. …

[light mulch]

I also cannot see any difference. Version comparison on kaggle does also not show differences in passphrase

[ember relic]

wow what the hell

i have some kind of different prompt in mine locally

[light mulch]

can you share the prompt?

[buoyant frigate]

They republished the notebook after some day, probably something wrong got there in the public notebook.
@olive ledge , is that correct?

[acoustic temple]

Maybe the challenging part is understanding it. Whenever we understand what is the objective, doing part should not be that difficult

[waxen lynx]

https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31/discussion/446031

[buoyant frigate]

yeah, there was a change in variable name, but the prompt itself seems to be the same. Am I correct?

[acoustic temple]

I think correct Answer to this questions would lead us to right direction 😵‍💫

[gaunt anchor]

Ok my latest and maybe final passphrase test is running ... let see the flag pleeeeaaaseee

[olive ledge]

Don’t over think it.

[gaunt anchor]

should we over think the other one 😛

[olive ledge]

Hallucination?

[ornate marsh]

How much overthinking do you reckon is appropriate for cifar? 😁

[ember relic]

any luck?

[gaunt anchor]

its going to take some time ... or luck ....

[ornate marsh]

I only want one more flag, so i'm jumping erratically between all my unsolved problems and failing spectacularly at each 😄

[severe pasture]

same here

[ornate marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-theory-explaining-gif-13403485

[past brook]

I just want granny, ive put it way too many hours not to get it

even if it wont change my ranking

[ember relic]

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost_fallacy

[timber lake]

We all are victims of ‘sunk cost fallacy’ in CTF…

And then there is ‘I haven’t failed 1000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1000 steps.’

[acoustic temple]

Any news ? 😁

[gaunt anchor]

No flag so far … but I think I am on the right track .. but I need to speed things up , I am so sleepy so I will update the strategy on the morning ( unless a flag shows) hhh

This flag means gold so it,s better show it self 😎😎

[past brook]

hmmm.. people are still getting flags at the 20-threshold

i might fall out of bronze lmao

[olive ledge]

I won't believe it until I see it!

[ornate marsh]

I'm trying to claw my way into bronze 😄

[final path]

Stumbled upon this today: http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html 🙂
"I realized recently that what one thinks about in the shower in the morning is more important than I'd thought."

[past brook]

ahhh thats why I havnt gotten any flags

I havnt showered in 30 days

https://tenor.com/view/stinky-gif-13197360360872609399

[viral bough]

I was able to load skops for cluster 1, but is there any tips on predicting with the data? It's probably simple but I'm not too familiar with skops

I did some basic searches on Google

(nevermind looks like it has the usual predict_proba and I just need to figure out how input it right)

[gaunt anchor]

My new idea failed me with passphrase ... 😦 .... there is one last edit I want to try ... then I am out !

[lost relic]

Hi @olive ledge , Is granny3 fine? I see many 504 status code on my last optimizations

[tribal plank]

Goodluck, have fun.

I should have quit 12 days ago.

[limber flower]

I tried resetting the cluster, let me know if it improves

[gaunt hollow]

Weird...Why the default code in pixelated challenge cannot run in my terminal, resulting in TypeError: Object of type bytes is not JSON serializable?

Sorry if that's a silly question. Does anyone have some clues?

[lost relic]

Yes, it has been answered many times. Try adding .decode() after encoding with base64

[tribal plank]

append a .decode()

[gaunt hollow]

Many thanks. What should be done after adding this:
input_data = base64.b64encode(input_data).decode()?

import requests
import base64

with open('/kaggle/input/ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31/pixelated/reference.png', 'rb') as f:
    input_data = f.read()
    input_data = base64.b64encode(input_data).decode()

def query(input_data):
    response = requests.post('http://pixelated.advml.com/score', data={'data': input_data})
    return response.json()

query(input_data)

will return {'message': 'Invalid input.'}

[tribal plank]

data= => json=

[gaunt hollow]

Oh I see. Now Kaggle works normally

somehow the terminal run normally but outputs nothing = =

Thanks, that may be a bug in my computer

[tribal plank]

query(input_data) => print(query(input_data))

[gaunt hollow]

oh what why

it works

thanks many much!

why?????

[granite goblet]

Is Hush slow for you guys too?? Its taking like a minute now to query

[faint mulch]

I have the same question. Mine is also far from 1

[ornate marsh]

Granny1 seems a bit sluggish as well 😦

[amber sapphire]

Just solved pickle...so much time wasted...😩

Now hurry up for 20

[neat light]

omg I still don't get what I need to do for Pixelated...

[amber sapphire]

Neither I

[naive umbra]

Meanwhile I'm still wasting time on this one. It's the only one I still want to solve before the comp ends.

[modern anchor]

I need pixelated too. Wasted too much time on that

I know what text to enter but the OCR is so bad.

[faint mulch]

Any tips for Cluster 1? It's 3AM where im at, and im losing my mind trying to figure this out. 🤣

[neat light]

knowing the text to enter is already a huge jump forward in my opinion...still far from that 😦

[modern anchor]

Dude I am trying it like from the past 4-5 days and still no progress with ocr 🥲

[modern anchor]

You can find some information regarding this in past messages

[amber sapphire]

Idk if what I try to write is the right thing...but agree with you about OCR

[neat light]

haven't found anything useful here or anywhere else about pixelated...

[sullen forge]

use one same prompt solved all wtf1-6 except 4, looks like it can't break the security🙃

[neat light]

what do you mean? 🙂

[acoustic temple]

is chatgpt down ? I can't open my chat histories

[fallow valve]

https://status.openai.com/ looks good

[faint mulch]

score has to be 1.0 to get the flag right? I am at 0.018. soo far awayyyy 😭

[timber lake]

Read the hint again

[faint mulch]

the one that says "find which subpopulation is being systematically misclassified" or the one that sounds like a harry potter line 🤣

[timber lake]

Which one is more clear to u?

@olive ledge semantle2 giving ‘failed to process input’

ChatGPT is also down

[amber sapphire]

Time to take a shower

[thorny ivy]

Don't forget, this shower style will help you #ai-village-capture-the-flag-defcon31 message

[acoustic temple]

use this instead of chatgpt:

https://chat.lmsys.org/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=gamma&utm_campaign=-lmsys-2023

and you can also vote which model response better

[faint mulch]

now my score is 0.0 and completely lost 😭

[gaunt anchor]

@olive ledge @limber flower The hush server is almost dead ... can you please check 🙂

[thorny widget]

+1 for granny3, please

[timber lake]

I will shower on 10th

[faint mulch]

Finally solved Cluster 1, after getting some coffee and burrito

[olive ledge]

We believe in you. Make sure you take a peek at the resource’s discussions.

[jagged sluice]

moo have you recieved the full printed mnist cifar dataset yet?

i spent extra to fedex 👺

[gaunt anchor]

Yesterday I said my last try ... then I am out ... can anyone just tell my head that I am out ...

[jagged sluice]

you are still in

[gaunt anchor]

I am not :/ ... I am just staring at passphrase .. hush ... and cifar ... granny3 no need to stare

granny3 is crop2 (from last year) to me

[runic trellis]

Are there any Cifar hints?

[icy notch]

try not to go crazy while solving it

[lost relic]

Are kaggle notebooks working for you? The code does not load for me 😦

[surreal lantern]

same here... I've been unable to load any notebooks for the past 2 hs 😞

[acoustic temple]

today nothing is working, kaggle, chatgpt, ....

[lost relic]

Excelent timing

[past brook]

My internet has been out all day

Appearently it may take a couple of days before its fixed 🙃

[icy notch]

somebody created really dangerous pickle

[light mulch]

or gained admin privileges to gpt by uploading a image.

[tribal plank]

mischievous

[devout jasper]

wish I had one more week 😄

[glass bay]

I figured out an approach to hush...
But it requires 660 petabytes of ram...

[neat light]

getting a new output from hush....anyone got this one at some point?

[glass bay]

afaik wrong type of file or sample rate or codec or something like that

i had it sometimes, it was gone after matching properties of a file to send with the test noise

@olive ledge could you post the granny3 pixel right after the end of comp and leave the servers running for 3 days after? i reeeeeeally want to check if that needle in a haystack is findable and how close i got after wasting 2 weeks on it

[neat light]

anyone ever got this out of pixelated?

[neat light]

hope the thumbs up mean I'm in the right direction 😂

[minor falcon]

i am redoing granny 2 for a notebook I intend to put public.
So nice to see the probability going above 0.00069

I missed that feeling

[jagged sluice]

when people still haven't realized that you can pixel shift the entire timber wolf with a checkerboard pattern and it will pass granny3 inspection

[minor falcon]

actually it would be really funny if granny 3 was actually not an advertial challenge, but a challenge to bypass the 1 pixel checker

[jagged sluice]

the thing is that it is

and there is a way

i'll reveal in 2 days B)

[minor falcon]

25 hrs to be accurate

[devout jasper]

I hate inversion so much

and I'll be so pissed, I already know it

[minor falcon]

i feel your pain, inversion marked my game over here 😢

[devout jasper]

two positions shy from silver medal

[past brook]

hmmm

https://tenor.com/view/hmmm-thinking-confused-gif-14450462

[ember relic]

Im so glad this will be over soon

[past brook]

I really want to see a black box solution for granny1

ive implemented 3 different papers without results

i must be doing something wrong

[icy notch]

my black box solution for granny 1 work

[past brook]

There is one black box approach I havnt tried that I believe might work but I cba

[minor falcon]

if you want to experiment still, go on granny2 which is much less used, so has better latency

[past brook]

I got my mind on CIFAR instead, though its even less likely ill solve that one

[tribal plank]

I have tried LSB and the alpha channel but granny noticed the former and ignored the latter

I also checked if there is a color that granny may misrecognize because in the easter egg picture she wears a pair of sunglasses🤣

[olive ledge]

Whaaat

[obtuse frost]

I am getting a 0.94 score from Semantle 2. How (ir)realistic is it to complete the challenge by the competition deadline?

[jagged sluice]

very

[obtuse frost]

Very unrealistic?

[jagged sluice]

very realistic

21 hours is plenty

time to shitpost for 21 hours straight 😈

[ember relic]

Once the comp ends the torture ends as well hahaha

[jagged sluice]

https://imgur.com/Daoab5M

[ember relic]

Theres some sleep to catch up on

[tribal plank]

Agree. Otherwise I just cannot stop wasting time on the big 4 but with no flag gained.

[timber lake]

This is what’ll happen

[faint mulch]

any hints for Cluster 3? Few more hours left until competition is done, but my brain is fried because of Cluster 1 😅

[tribal plank]

Right way. So it is a big hint.

[past brook]

i would suggest deleting your message

[amber sapphire]

Sorry, I thought there were problems, I'm not so expert with CTF

[gaunt hollow]

I know this but no idea what to do next (to prevent accidentally giving hints I could not list my attempts though 😦 )

[faint mulch]

anyone? cluster 3? 🤣

[tribal plank]

Hint: play more with Cluster 2.

🤣

[faint mulch]

I am already 🤣 . I know they are the same data set, my brain is just really fried

maybe need more coffee

[glass bay]

for cluster3: try multiple times. There may be some reordering happening from time to time when you try to order the clusters

it took like 20-30 retries to get it

[outer sundial]

Hint: it has something to do with clustering

[tribal plank]

This is why i am serious in suggesting to play more with Cluster 2

[minor falcon]

I agree with Roy, with the right pre-processing, Cluster 3 become straight forward

[faint mulch]

i see. I did brute-force my way in Cluster 2 to get to the "number" 🤣 , so i didn't do the clustering

[tribal plank]

🤣 soga

[acoustic temple]

is something wrong with Kaggle? I can't choose GPU for my notebook, also adding data page freeze with no reason, is it me only?

[neat light]

avg time to solve pixelated in your opinion? ....I am really hating it btw ahah

[naive umbra]

I can't solve silly pickle. I'm probably going to bang my head against the keyboard when I see the solution

[neat light]

omg I am getting "please receipt for an offer" now...

[outer sundial]

5 min - 30 days

[modern anchor]

Thought I have figured out pixelated but turns out I was wrong 😭

[gaunt hollow]

I would be deeply thanks if people can share their brute force/genetic/whatever algorithm after this competition really. Get JsonDecodeError soooooooo many times...

[neat light]

is the prompt even useful for pixelated?...I am basically ignoring it now

[minor falcon]

pixaleted took me about 1hr to figure out the thing to do, and about 5 hours to fight against the OCR :p

[amber sapphire]

Now I think I now what to write...but unable to make the OCR read it right way...

[amber sapphire]

I have 14h now...

[minor falcon]

the key for pixaleted is to understand the output provided and what it means concretly. Cannot say more unfortunately

[outer sundial]

2 days to figure, 15-minute battle with OCR.

[minor falcon]

lucky you, I got stuck with the OCR because I was overcomplexifying my image at first :p

still stuck 22 flags btw ? didnt look at the ladder for some times now

[outer sundial]

Yes, dropped this competition 10 days ago and am currently participating in Google Fast and Slow.

[neat light]

I think I have the opposite problem right now 😂

[amber sapphire]

First to solve goes 20...😅

[neat light]

yes...but I have the feeling it won't be enough for a medal anyway....

[outer sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/tommy-tutone-jenny-8675309-phone-number-gif-23807889

[amber sapphire]

Probably not enough

[karmic bronze]

Goddamn this is amazing

[modern anchor]

I am fighting from the past 5 days sadly but still no signs of improvement in ocr

I will surely be kicking myself after viewing the solution tomorrow

[gaunt hollow]

I will kick myself if I find I made the solution but OCR failed to recognise my art lol

[minor falcon]

when you get close to the solution for pixaleted, you know you are getting close

[naive umbra]

I'm currently in bronze with 20 flags but also on the brink to be pushed out

[amber sapphire]

But we are not yet there... currently only another one to get 20 will be 'temporarly' bronze

[glass bay]

actual way to solve pickle:

[hard perch]

Any last minute clue for pickle? 🥲🙏

[acoustic temple]

google it

[hard perch]

Pickle or waving keyboard?

[light mulch]

maybe ask the quirky chef from Bitville how to make pickles?

Is anyone still with me in tackling passphrase?

[tribal plank]

Me. But with no more ideas.

[minor falcon]

I gave up when I saw i could not get Inversion

[tribal plank]

with a cache containing 800k+ entries🥲

[acoustic temple]

actually it does, eventhough couldn't solve it yet

[minor falcon]

Not going to the million would be a shame

[light mulch]

I fear that i have been unintentionally mislead. 😄 I am deep down a rabbit hole and it seems strange that 2 people solved it after taking a shower within like 3 and the other 12 hours (maybe because he did hush in the meantime). 😄

[light mulch]

Now we know why the sever is so slow 😛

[amber sapphire]

I will give up...finally manage the OCR read...and found I was wrong😬

[minor falcon]

this competition was good to work on multithreading skills

[devout jasper]

I'm desperately submitting stuff for cifar, the api response now is "you done?"

[tribal plank]

a significant step from Try again

[acoustic temple]

and multi-tasking 😄

[light mulch]

if you dont cifar you need see the eye doctor.

[fresh sorrel]

Hey folks, new to Kaggle and CTFs in general. I already signed up for the competition before the deadline, and I'm just wondering how I will be able to see the answers when the competition is over.

[devout jasper]

with our writups

[faint mulch]

the winner is gonna write his notebook

Cluster 3 is destroying me right now 😭

[timber lake]

Anyone else on semantle2? Stuck at 0.95.. Now I am going crazy

[pearl pawn]

That's both letting the computer multithread and multithreading yourself!

[hard perch]

Finally got pickle. I don’t know how but I got it.

Wasted only two weeks
Soul crushing

[amber sapphire]

Tomorrow big pain for pixelated and inversion solutions...

[tribal plank]

and CIFAR because it is simple

[pearl pawn]

Last 9hours!!

[tribal plank]

I need 4 showers

[pliant quail]

It is big pain now, no need to wait till tomorrow 😦

[acoustic temple]

I'm almost confident that I have got first part of inversion, but somehow second part is not working🤏

[fallow valve]

3x 23 and 1x 22 in the past hour from Russia, interesting

[light mulch]

I am currently writing a notebook for Inversion which i plan to publish after the competition close. So you can have a look then. 😉

[tribal plank]

sounds familiar

[minor falcon]

out of curiousity, was there a lot of difference vs the inversion equivalent of last year ?

I really really hope I missed a big subtility in that flag

[acoustic temple]

yeah me too, otherwise it will hit hard

[hollow coyote]

too far away now. Just going to enjoy all the solutions as they are released. Make some good write-ups every1

[severe pasture]

not really

[tribal plank]

You need a thunderstorm

[minor falcon]

If I miss it because of a character missinterpretation, i'll be kind of pissed aha

[amber sapphire]

Yes, also for it...I think I felt in overthinking

[severe pasture]

organisers posted some pretty good clues for inversion

[acoustic temple]

where in this channel ?

[minor falcon]

the "the ai is trying to tell you something g." ?

didnt get it :p

[abstract rose]

Is it possible to have the full message from AI and do not get the flag?

[severe pasture]

I'm not gonna say anymore but the turning point for me was due to messages in this channel 🤐

[amber sapphire]

I fell like I understood this one...but still unable to get the flag...and time is running fast...

[light mulch]

What was your turning point for passphrase? 😄

[minor falcon]

the shower is a good turning point for that one

[severe pasture]

I printed it out all the clues from this channel on paper and highlighted the key parts lol

[light mulch]

I already have a word document with screenshots. Probably need to print it out and laminate them so i can take them under the shower.

[fallow valve]

same

[minor falcon]

gosh i spent all the month here trolling and shitposting, I really doubt I miss a message, but if this is the case, i'd be even more pissed ahah

[gaunt anchor]

For me I had inversion from day one ... but couldn't see it ! .... I got it in the end ...but it was in a way like my problem with cluster3 ... wasted days on a silly mistake !

[severe pasture]

oh wait wrong reply

also looking at how long it took people to solve problems helps

you can narrow your search that way

[minor falcon]

yeah, for passphrase, definitly, qihuaz gave a lot

[fallow valve]

anokas was #1 for a long time, I think discord messages made a big difference

[gaunt anchor]

and yet its driving me crazy ! I had so much "it must be this or this" and nthn :((

[severe pasture]

there are good clues from very early on in this channel 👀

[light mulch]

same 😦

[minor falcon]

@severe pasture you are not tryharding the last hours to go ITM ?

[severe pasture]

trying to get cifar

gave up on hush and my granny3 is still running in the background

[light mulch]

I think I read them all, but now i have to go back again... 😄

[minor falcon]

you got a good score for granny 3 ?

[severe pasture]

nothing better than the 0.00069

but I think I know what the intended solution is, just wasn't able to crack it in time

[minor falcon]

i would have had a methodology also, but it would have taken too many calls to converge and I was lazy to implement it :p

[severe pasture]

just so exhausted at this point that I'm averaging like one cifar idea every couple hours by now

[devout jasper]

I bet the clue in the input data is not a clue like for mnist

[minor falcon]

i think what was missing for cifar is a clue actually part of the solution

[severe pasture]

it is a clue for mnist 👀

[devout jasper]

never figured it out lol

[minor falcon]

it is actually a clue for mnist

and I thought it would be helpfull for cifar... well we can discuss that later today :p

[light mulch]

Thats a new unit for creativity: Cifar ideas/hour

[severe pasture]

rewriting the same 3 cifar ideas from scratch hoping there was a small bug in your previous tries

[fallow valve]

same here for the past couple days
won't ever be able to look at cifar the same way again

[final path]

chat is being hot today 🙂

[outer sundial]

Just seen your profile, you will become Kaggle competition master tomorrow.

[final path]

i hope so 🙂 unless 3x24 appear in last hour of comp. and it usally takes couple of days for medals, to drop cheaters and finalize lb

[glass bay]

well, my strategy of doing granny3, using the solution to get granny1 and granny2 and then finishing up other stuff failed miserably
now my best hope is to get to bronze

[tribal plank]

If granny3 is to alter only one pixel, I do not think the result can also pass granny2 using compression

[glass bay]

i will come so far as to say that the guy who got 0.000831 accidentally altered pixel on a local model after postprocessing instead of checking the solution on the server

[glass bay]

true, but that would be just rerunning the algo for x pixels

which is trivial if the needle was found

[final path]

but im 99% sure that granny3 is not what we all think it is.

[tribal plank]

agree

i brute forced all pixsls with r=g=b

[final path]

it's like trying to drastically change chatgpt output by changing only 1 character in 32K tokens prompt

[severe pasture]

tbf that is actually possible

well changing to a specific token not a character

[final path]

so next year challenge?:)
changing character can actually change token, so it's kinda possible. but it has to be deterministic model to make sense also

[tribal plank]

a simple counting challenge for imagenet

next year

[fallow valve]

why not the Pile

[severe pasture]

simple...

[tribal plank]

wrong shape - should be (36001, 20)

[light mulch]

"Try again."

[tribal plank]

Try again!

[final path]

we need to motivate people. "You're doing great. Try again". "It was wonderful idea, but try again"

[tribal plank]

I think the only result is to decreasing the sentimental score of 'great' etc

[light mulch]

maybe atleast leave away the "simple" in the problem description, so we dont feel so bad. 😄

[tribal plank]

maybe it is simple

[light mulch]

like granny 3, just pick the correct pixel. 😄

[glass bay]

honestly, imo, for cifar mnist etc type of tasks there should be like 5-10 possible solutions responses to which guide to the exact solution ex. "Yes, you did X, Y and Z, but now dont do Z and do something else" or "Wrong order!"

or just straight up do 6-7 subtasks

[tribal plank]

or give us an interesting riddle like passphrase and hush

[glass bay]

well

i'm ending my granny3 grind

i hope the solution will be released by moohax

[pearl pawn]

If I start now granny?
Remaining granny1-3, inversion, hush, cifar, passphrase

[faint mulch]

do Russians usually win the Kaggle contests? i also see a lot of Japanese winning

[final path]

they did, like 3-4 years ago

[ember relic]

you might solve granny 1-2

depends on the way youre gonna solve it

inversion took me like 2 hours

so id go with either granny1 or inversion

[fallow valve]

idk, I just thought that if there were 26 people with 23 in 30 days, three getting 23 within the same hour isn't something you'd expect

[outer sundial]

This happened earlier also 😅

Lets have faith on kaggle

[faint mulch]

must have bought some flags. I don't really care about winning, i just want to figure out Cluster 3 so i can have 4 points to my name 🤣

[light mulch]

why not do the easier challenges? 😄

[faint mulch]

i already did the easiest of them all, Test, Cluster 2 and 1. Just need Cluster 3, i got few more hours left. Been awake for 19 hrs. now

[light mulch]

the difficulty is not ordered. some of the later ones are just chatting with an ai 😄

[severe pasture]

what is the flag 1-6 + spanglish + pirate are the easiest

[ember relic]

yeah, the prompt ones are pretty easy

[faint mulch]

I have invested 99% of my brain cells in cluster 3, i can't get it out of my head 🤣

[fallow valve]

IP ones too

[severe pasture]

look at last year's solution notebooks 👀

[gaunt anchor]

I tried to think diffferently of granny3 , I tried some stuff that if it worked would be the coolest ever (in my opinion :P)

[pearl pawn]

I have spent days trying to solve inversion and I can't narrow down the candidates at all. Thanks, I will try granny.

[rocky jacinth]

Sloth, done.

[rocky jacinth]

As is probably obvious, difficulty depends on each person's skills and experience. I have 14 flags, but only solved two of the six WTFs (1 & 5). People experienced in hacking, prompt injection etc. apparently breezed through them. However, I found challenges like cluster1 & semantle fairly easy [needed time, but was always going to solve]. Some others, you just need to try the right thing - which could randomly be quick or slow. A few, you have to read the prompt carefully. And maybe one or two where you need to put yourself in the mind of the setter.

[past brook]

On earlier weeks where I was really active I got 1 answer straight up because someone gave a hugr hint for pixelate

Message deleted after 2 seconds but I had been stuck for days but got it within 5 minutes after seeing the hint

Also people openly talking about adverserial networks, black box attacks etc for granny

Even just saying that a flag was simple is a huge hint, not everyone is aiming for gold

[wanton patrol]

I was very surprised that people shared that they were able to match the granny model (closely) locally
that is not something one should expect to be able to do for a random deep NN
I think a totally valid assumption would be that it is trained/finetuned on different data and there is no point in trying to match it

(we were given the architecture of course, but still)

[past brook]

I can only imagine what people were discussing behind closed doors considering how much was discussed in here. Ive gotten message from over 5 strangers in this discord asking for help and tips

[outer sundial]

I can only think of one way to identify cheaters and that is time. Because there is no other way as all solution are same( at least hard ones )

[devout jasper]

I'd pay for inversion and cifar

probably a psychiatrist

[light mulch]

passphrase server prepare for one last attempt! 😛

[limber flower]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1hWEAe1kfjnNb7aWJv/giphy.gif

[violet trellis]

I already gave up 10 days ago with 18 flags, and just waiting the comp to finish to show my work of trolling the llms

[light mulch]

nice 😄 whats the timeline?

[gaunt anchor]

I have a new challange .... I am writing a notebook to share later and I want it to score in the end .... it scores 22 :/ !! .... what the ? How I should know which flag is wrong !

[tribal plank]

i encountered the same thing. I just repeatedly submited the csv file with a different line of flag changed to 'empty' and found it's wtf6.

[surreal lantern]

if you want the notebook to be scored, you may need to hardcode the flags; the LLM-based challenges are non-deterministic so what may have worked at one point may not work later

[gaunt anchor]

I did a trick to slove this , I always have 23 flags ... but it scores 22

Found the problem , the pirate flag .... I fixed it

[past brook]

You will solve the WTFs if you just keep trying. Trust me they arent as difficult as you think

[minor falcon]

can we start talking about granny 3 ? I guess its too late anyway to implement any kind of ideas now ? :p

[final path]

you can make 1k rps if you have local model, so better wait till the end of comp 🙂

[minor falcon]

true true

[final turret]

@devout jasper

Cifar is simpler than mnist.

Are anybody solved mnist?

[ornate marsh]

what 😄

[severe pasture]

cifar is simpler?? 👀

[outer sundial]

You solved CIFAR ?

[craggy beacon]

Almost all task are kinda simple after you have solved them

[glass bay]

i can tell y'all the exact 0.0006927 pixel

not like it matters at all

[severe pasture]

I think we all have it lol

[ornate marsh]

Has anyone solved cluster 2?

[glass bay]

i got it
the answer is clearly -12

[ornate marsh]

NICE

[craggy beacon]

Granny3 is simpler than Granny1.

Are anybody solved Granny1?

[outer sundial]

My dog just solved it, he has a PHD in woofness from MIT.

[ornate marsh]

photo pls

[light mulch]

I think i am there now... 😄 now i just need to find the right dictionary and then i will claim victory in 40 min. 😛

[violet trellis]

I just got some imaginary numbers there, am I going right?

[glass bay]

nah you are going up

[ornate marsh]

This is my dog 🙂 he's a very good boy

[fallow valve]

I love this one

[devout jasper]

whhaaaat???

[minor falcon]

Imagine, for cifar the answer being an array of 0

[final path]

add 👍 if you just tried array of 0 for cifar after this message

[severe pasture]

I already tried that days ago

[queen garden]

Same and it's probably not the dumbest thing I've tried

[wanton patrol]

I am not sure if I prefer this to be trolling or not
both options are great 😄

[light mulch]

Do you think they will just release the solutions for the unsolved problems or give hints like last year? I would prefer just hints.

[timber lake]

How do I get credit in cluster3. Not able to rechar

[surreal lantern]

I think moohax mentioned somewhere in the chat that they would release stats and hints after the end of the competition

[glass bay]

tbh i dont want hints for cifar and granny3

i just want solutions

[granite goblet]

Imagine another input_data being given as clue for cifar

[light mulch]

Or more of those riddles 😄

[ember relic]

im 100% sure i thought of the solution to cifar but never implemented it correctly

how is it possible to get "Invalid length" from passphrase when the length of the string is 40?

[gusty warren]

I think LLM models process input as list of words, not chars

[severe pasture]

waiting for the last minute cifar hint

[devout jasper]

let's wait together

I mean, it's easier than MNIST

[acoustic temple]

wth, inversion in 2 hours? 🥲 is it this much simple, I'm strugling with it not over a week

[ember relic]

i was lucky that i found the right approach fairly quickly

[glass bay]

damn that granny easter egg is fire

also i've got granny 1 and 2 just in time with a single image!

i dare to say that i secured bronze

man, if only granny3 was more solvable and i did not waste millennia cracking it

[gusty warren]

That's a hard earned bronze

[glass bay]

that's one hell of a journey yea

first actual competition on kaggle also

except the university community one a while back but that did not count towards medals and such

although, granny1-2 woud have taken waaaaaaaaaaay longer without whitening the box which i did while trying the granny3

[hard perch]

Stuck on 0.99999 💀

[glass bay]

like going for 1.0 is not the way

what you need imo is have 0.5+ on granny smith

[hard perch]

Damn was stuck with this blackbox approach and trying to grind to 1.
Thanks

[acoustic temple]

and also don't send apple image 😄

[glass bay]

furthermore, there were screenshots here of someone actually making it to 1.0

and others like 4e-9

[surreal lantern]

the whole point of these type of competitions is for people to find out things by themselves... you are sharing too much (again)

[glass bay]

i'll remove some

others now just refer to other people's slip-ups

[light mulch]

is someone preparing a notebook for hush and passphrase? cant wait to read the solution and upvote. 😄

[queen garden]

I have a write-up ready. No hush/Cifar though

[light mulch]

you got cifar? 💪

[queen garden]

Nope, I meant I did not get hush & Cifar

[light mulch]

a sorry 😄

guess we have to count on the 25 guys for hush then ^^

[glass bay]

so, no granny 3 and cifar on anyone?

[severe pasture]

only one person we know of got hush

most of the 25s are cifar

[light mulch]

according to hosts there are people with cifar

[queen garden]

Yuri got cifar ? I missed the info

[glass bay]

i believe it's the other way around

[severe pasture]

no moohax said plenty of people got cifar

[orchid sundial]

i will post hush but didnt have time to comment it correctly

[glass bay]

i think it's more likely to get hush than cifarbecause of feedback that the server gives

[ember relic]

he never said

[light mulch]

I saw the message of yuri and it was not cifar 😛

[ember relic]

i mean he did, but then deleted the msg supposedly

[glass bay]

aint no way more people got cifar than hush

[ember relic]

granny3 wasnt solved?

[severe pasture]

not that we know of

[glass bay]

no i believe not

[devout jasper]

omg I got granny 3

[glass bay]

no way

[devout jasper]

jk

😉

[glass bay]

damn

[devout jasper]

time to writeup, don't worry...btw it was great chatting with you guys

[glass bay]

may i post my solutions here after the comp is over? i'm too lazy to write a complete writeup

[devout jasper]

great discord channel

lot of fun

[glass bay]

same, it's been great talking to you here!

[devout jasper]

it's a pity that not all competitions have this much activity on discord

probably the nature of the competition itself plays a huge role...different challenges compared to one big task like others

congrat to you all and to the winner (not going to say the name because I'm italian and you know, we are superstitious)

thank you @olive ledge and the other hosts once again

[glass bay]

well, time to say goodbye to all that

[olive ledge]

Laziest solution is just make the notebook public

[severe pasture]

all the arxiv papers for granny3?

[buoyant frigate]

which one of the 20 notebooks?
All?

[gaunt anchor]

You will not believe my granny score 🤣

[light mulch]

Did you plan on giving out hints for unsolved problems after the competition end and if yes then when? 🙂

[glass bay]

and all the font sites for pixleated that i could not solve

sadge

and like 10 github repos for various sound and image processing

it was fun tbh

but damn my ram had some work to do

[wanton patrol]

I feel like I could do a really lazy post about pixelated, because the OCR worked without issues for me, main issue was my own editing skills, not the fault of the model

just show which kind of images worked easily for me

[glass bay]

alright going to sleep 2am in my timezone bye all and good luck to the last hour grinders

[glass bay]

please do

[wanton patrol]

someone else might scoop me, but if noone does a better one, I will 😄

[final turret]

Is .... apple, a hint to cifar :)))?

[olive ledge]

No hints, ever.

[light mulch]

So granny3 will remain unsolved? 😄

[glass bay]

Will you reuse challenges or keep them as a secret for eternity?

[minor falcon]

361, does that ring a bell?

[olive ledge]

We're exploring the possibility of having some permanent challenge infrastructure.

[light mulch]

In that case no hints are fine. I just want to see a solution before the servers go offline 😄

[surreal lantern]

🙄

[abstract rose]

Guys, just to say such CTF competition is really fun, hope so see the same next year! Bye.

[glass bay]

So, some that remain unsolved may get a growing bounty and stay up indefinitely? Sounds really cool if that were to happen

[light mulch]

Still up? 😄

[minor falcon]

imagine now someone post a sub with the 27 flags

[glass bay]

It's very hard to go, it's like going to sleep at 23:00 at Christmas Eve

[devout jasper]

will the delete accout be excluded from the leaderboard?

[minor falcon]

I need 21 execution please to go to gold

[devout jasper]

ahahaa I need like 3 to go silver

[glass bay]

I need like 80

[devout jasper]

no, actually more

damn it

[minor falcon]

arf thats though

22 flags late ?

[topaz ember]

Normally it takes a couple of days to finalize LB, Kaggle team will probably remove the deleted account then.

[glass bay]

I hope the ip llm knows your ips

[minor falcon]

silver is top 5% no ? So theoretically, to push you to the silver zone you could also ask 50 people to join the comp :p

[pearl pawn]

Need more time...

[devout jasper]

I still have 30 mins

duable

[topaz ember]

Almost no changes to LB within the last couple of days and so much progress within the last hours...

[minor falcon]

its like during an exam

[acoustic temple]

I learned a lot in this challenge, I like how challenges were in diverge direction, now I'm in silver zone and I'm quit happy with result 🙂
thanks for hosting, and thanks for this great channel and hot discussions
hope to see you all again next year 🙌 (also in other competitions)

[minor falcon]

@glass bay at the end you solved granny with a white box attack ?

[glass bay]

Whitebox. My local copy turned out to be close enough

[olive ledge]

https://youtu.be/zHU1xH6Ogs4?si=JVlN1akUrO5u_US9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiTxUEnmKI

[severe pasture]

there's a hint for cifar in here somewhere 🤔

[minor falcon]

the hint for cifar was given if you kindly ask to the AI god

[buoyant frigate]

I prepared an horrible notebook with my results. Just 27 minutes before making it public. (I'm at 22 flags, still trying to go to 23, but don't expect granny3,inversione,cifar,hsuh or passphrase solutions in the notebook).

For the other challenges you should find something in my notebook.
I want to share and learn from others so feel free to criticize me and my work a lot!

Anyway it's like I'll share it and then I'll go to sleep 0:37 AM here.
Tomorrow I have to wake up to work 🥲

[buoyant frigate]

ask GPT gods, or even LLM gods in parituclar

[minor falcon]

the ai god was the agent of CTF5 I think 🙂

[topaz ember]

I did the same challanges as you, 95% done with inversion though but don't have time to put all the pieces together. The remaining 5% could take 95% of time 🙂

[minor falcon]

for granny3, did some of you tryied to implement the horrible TLMFO algo ? :p

[severe pasture]

considered it but never tried, did you?

[minor falcon]

yeah, cryied blood tears to make it worked... It did converge pretty fast to the usual pixel, but got stuck there as well very fast

i'll not share that code, not proud about it 😅

[buoyant frigate]

You can implement algos from paaers?
I just throw bunch of gradient descent around and hope it works 🤣

i have like 10-20 notebook versions with different approaches I tried for granny3.
In the next 20 years maybe I'll find the time to sort them out and publish once everything is in place.

[minor falcon]

i had 20 notebooks trying to do the same thing with different seeds :p

[buoyant frigate]

That is also a way to go.
Multithread. Just at notebook level

[severe pasture]

need to mix kaggle, colab and local to avoid rate limiting too lol

[light mulch]

just buy some proxies 😛

[minor falcon]

multithread + if response.status_code != 200: time.sleep(120)

[minor falcon]

I seriously considered mounting a cluster of t3 micro for my ultimate try for granny 3

[buoyant frigate]

Just buy enough VMs to test on each a single pixel change locally.
Downside: requires massive budget, I think way more than the money in the current world economy

[light mulch]

You think the whitebox would not work for granny3?

[minor falcon]

i went for blackbox for all 3 tasks personnaly

[severe pasture]

same, never managed to recreate the model locally

[minor falcon]

i think i tried for 10min to replicate the model and then said to myself "naaahh"

[violet trellis]

I tried bluebox yesterday.
Promising...

[minor falcon]

squared attack worked very well for g1 & 2

[fallow valve]

Did some math and with some optimizations iirc it could be done in ~1300 hours on my machine haha

[buoyant frigate]

Next year I think we should have the famous sandwitch function already there in the notebook.

"""
import time

def sandwitch_decorator(f):
def sandwitch_f(input_data,sleep=0):
try:
time.sleep(0.1)
result=f(input_data)
except:
time.sleep(sleep+1)
result=sandwitch_f(input_data,sleep+1)#make a sandwitch as requested on discord
if "flag" in result:
print(result["flag"])
return result
return sandwitch_f
"""

I literally made a sandwitch decorator. So that I can just add it before the query method whatever it does inside.

[fallow valve]

that's definitely not the intended solution, I hope so at least

[buoyant frigate]

Not the correct sandwitch for sure. But still a sandwitch it is

[minor falcon]

for g3, my last idea (never tried), was to do a double DE algorithm

[devout jasper]

keep sharing info so I can get my silver because you'll be disqualified

please

😄

[severe pasture]

if someone can solve granny from scratch in under 10 minutes they deserve gold

[buoyant frigate]

🤣 At least for the momnt I think there are only granny 3 congectures, so no disqualifications. But yeah, if 40 people get disqualified I can be closer to gold, so go on.

[minor falcon]

a master DE finding the (x,y) with a fitness score based on the optimal RGB for that pixel (found by DE)

good luck in implementing this in 8 min and having a converging solution :p

[fallow valve]

Initially, I didn't consider making different notebooks lol
Just realized how big that one ended up

[severe pasture]

how many api calls did you need for granny1/2? I think it was ~6k for me but my algo was quite inefficient

[minor falcon]

around 7k for me

[buoyant frigate]

Don't you have a quantum computer that can just use its "oracle" to solve it by extracting its resulting quantum state?

[glass bay]

4

[buoyant frigate]

You just need enough qbits

[glass bay]

Might as well brute force and do de for each x y

[devout jasper]

5 mins and I'll cry looking at inversion/cifar solutions

[glass bay]

I did that for some whitebox gathered suspects, no luck

[buoyant frigate]

4 minutes

[minor falcon]

yeah, more extrem, but 786x786 optims would have been slightly too long :p

[glass bay]

Ye like 12 days or smth

[minor falcon]

but I think the double DE could have been duable with could multi threading in a few days

[buoyant frigate]

moohax is tipying a lot.
I think he is going to receive the printed cifar dataset in some minutes

[glass bay]

And he will... See... Far...

[minor falcon]

did some people used a DT for Cluster 1 ?

this haunted me also during the beginning of the comp

[severe pasture]

for granny3 I have a suspicion that there's a way to sneak multiple changes passed the API, like having it only check for changes after resizing the 768 image to the model's expected size but was never able to get it to work

[buoyant frigate]

2 minutes before understanding the meaning of life , how to see far and what is the secret sauce.

[light mulch]

I aways hear Linkin Park - In the End in my head when i think about CIFAR: I tried so hard and got CIFAR. But in the end it doesn't even matter. 🎵

[fallow valve]

same

[buoyant frigate]

1 minute

[minor falcon]

did you notice there was a cropping of the original image ?

[fallow valve]

maybe it had something to do with the easter egg

[glass bay]

I tried sneaking 2 pixels

[severe pasture]

wdym?

[light mulch]

its over !

[half plinth]

I SURVIVED

[glass bay]

No, even if they are cropped, they still are checked

[final path]

even if you change 2px in cropped part, it failed

[severe pasture]

are we allowed share solutions now?

[final path]

🥲

[past brook]

can we post our solutions now?

[buoyant frigate]

We all survived

[queen garden]

Wooooooo comp over we can share, right ?

[fallow valve]

omg
I can't believe it

[minor falcon]

yeah but i was wondering if the people using the white box approach saw the cropping

[devout jasper]

congrats @craggy beacon

[queen garden]

please send cifar solution 🙂

[granite goblet]

its time for the cifar solution

[jagged sluice]

Alright time to drop the multi pixel granny attack

[severe pasture]

inversion is "letmeout" btw 🤦‍♂️

[past brook]

did someone solve grann1 with gradient estimation, no substitution model?

[craggy beacon]

Thanks