#Future Class Integration?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

azure lagoon
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I'm just curious... as is, the game seems clearly designed around the four classes it has. I could make a party without one of each, but given that each of the four classes brings unique and semi-critical abilities to bear, it's hard not to. The idea of maximizing all 4 auras leads to me wanting all 4 jobs too.

I think this is a fault of starting w/ only 4 jobs... you need to include so much in each that it becomes very hard to exclude any 1, which leads to pretty predicatable parties of P/Dru/A/Due .

Are there presently any plans at all on how to expand on this? I'm loving the game, but curious how you plan to deal with this issue in the future.

The only way I can really see is to create 2 new hybrid classes, each bringing the utility of 2 base classes? But that doesn't feel like a really great solution, and I worry the future classes would end up feeling a bit too hybrid-mushy, and would lack their own identity....

Just curious.

Love the game though. Thanks so much for doing this. Even with only 4 classes at launch, it's super-cool.

keen obsidian
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Think it's a fair point, but new classes don't necessarily need to have a new unique aura. For example if a new healer was added it could start with the same aura the druid has

harsh bolt
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Some things I'm considering:

ranged dps / wand class

Ae dps class

Summoner who can summon a pet to fill tank or dps or healing roles,

2H based healing class

Unarmed / fist dps class

I have more but those would replace any existing role without much disruption.

sick widget
spice shoal
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The jankiest suplex in the world.

sly comet
spice cove
strange sky
solar steppe
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I'd love a Bard class!

grave rover
unkempt thicket
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I like the idea of a non-necro summoner class, IF a pure summoner class has to be implemented. Maybe you're a Bandit Leader or General or some such and you're summoning members of your band or army to help you out, it would justify infantry/ranged/etc.

static mortar
naive shore
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I like the idea of expanding the base classes while maybe introducing a couple of new ones to fill other niches. Paladins can DPS or tank, so to expand the base classes maybe duelist could tank, arcanist could focus more on debuffs instead of DPS, and druids could get more DPS instead of support. Maybe a talent system or something to facilitate it and make the differences more substantial? Then you could introduce a ranged physical damage like Archer/bard that could do DPS or support with buffs, and a fist fighting melee class that could DPS or heal.

analog jacinth
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I agree it would add a ton to the game if not every group was not the exact same combo of the 4. I agree it would be hard to not have a role filled but Ideally id say do one of two things. 1) Make 2 classes for each role, aka 2 tanks so 8 classes. This lets people mix and match and build a group that fits their play style. 2) Keep the 4 classes and let them specialize into a more specific play style within their class. So at level 10 druid could go Beast Master to lean into pets or Plant Wizard to go more spell based.

cunning terrace
# harsh bolt Some things I'm considering: ranged dps / wand class Ae dps class Summoner ...

What about the class specific auras? I like that everyone gets a unique one and think each class should continue to have at least one unique one. But it would also be cool if there were some archetype auras caster DPS / healer / tank / melee DPS etc. focused ones (perhaps weaker than the class specific ones) that could be used by any class that can fit the role... Then it would be a bit easier to have stacking auras if you (for whatever reason) wanted to double up on a particular class.

weary peak
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I think you are onto something. Say there was a priest class as the alternate healer.

Druid: Focus on dots, summons, and elemental damage
Priest: Greater focus on healing, protection buffs (AC+element), and stat buffs

One could act as a higher DPS healer while the other can be a more defensive healer.

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I, for example, would rather have a more DPS oriented tank and a more healing/defense based healer/support. There could be different class strategies for bosses for mixing and matching. This would also give us a higher amount of players in our group rotation. We may prefer different settups for grinding vs going through dungeons and other content.

wispy reef
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What about a pure support (party buff / enemy debuff) class?

wispy reef
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As long as any combination of 4 still covers the tank/DPS/heal/CC quad, it's all good. These new classes would be great DLC/expansion content, too.

royal swift
mystic surge
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im kinda stepping out of the bounds of this discussion a tiny bit but with more classes a 5th party member would A. fit a bit more with most mmos i have played at least and B. provide a bit more support wherever you may be lacking and could allow classes to be a bit more focused for instance the duelist could focus entirely on dps and allow a group to have a tank, dps, healer, cc, and utility (buff/debuff/mana regen) combo also id like to see a dedicated 2handed weapon class like a barbarian or berserker

bold geode
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Think a warrior would be cool. Maybe with a rage/fury rss instead of mana.would add a new tank option as well as a dps

somber creek
warm maple
# harsh bolt Some things I'm considering: ranged dps / wand class Ae dps class Summoner ...

Unarmed/fist would be fun in terms of different + itemization (proc-y handwraps and such? gloves with effects?) though the flexible summoner with competent/stand out pets is always a fun one to lean into.

2h healing could be neat, especially if more of a hybrid - I think the AE class would just end up a given for mass pulling, might be tough without an AE taunt to actually AE adds vs mezzing at various levels. And ranged/wand would fill that niche for those who dig that class fantasy

royal atlas
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As someone who plays mainly pet classes im all for summoner class

barren swallow
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I actually just did a whole research study on classes for MMO's and why the Trinity model always naturally comes around, despite many developer's attempts to curb it, or make every position available to every class.

sly comet
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Always found classless systems with a big pool of skills and spells the best option, prolly why the ascension private server is so popular. Players always find a way to come up with ways to surprise you when given freedom like that

barren swallow
elfin flicker
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Sacrifice 666 goats = Bard class added?

sly comet
azure lagoon
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Never played a classless MMO, but I've played every mainline Final Fantasy game (and XI, although that's an MMO...) and can say with 100% confidence that I prefer the ones that lean into making each job unique over the ones that say "here's a charachter avatar, now make them do what you like".

I guess offline games are more story driven, and that's part of the reason I prefer having people w/ fixed identies there... but even so.

(To be fair, kind of an oversimplification. Towards the end of FF6 for instance, most of the otherwise unique cast starts to become very similar thanks to the esper system, unless you're doing some sort of challenge run... and that's an objectively great game nonetheless... but still.)

quartz pewter
sly comet
weary peak
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Pure support classes that don't heal or do damage exist. Probably not common or normal, but I've seen them.

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I guess you could make the argument that classes that do nothing but debuff with status effects, lower enemy defenses, or raise party offenses contribute to DPS and are therefore DPS.

daring ruin
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Considering the game's many inspirations, I'm surprised no one has pointed out the obvious answer - branching subclasses. We have 4 major roles that needs to be filled in Tank, Healer, DPS with support, and DPS with control. Tank is currently Paladin, but what if Tank started as, say, a generic fighter and then branched into either Paladin, a more physical Warrior, or maybe even the darker Shadowknight (just as an example). With a shared origin they can carry the same types of gear/auras that role should bring, while still being multiple options for playstyle and flavor.

On that principle, Arcanist could share space with the DoT and AoE casters, Duelist with unarmed/Ranger, and Druids with other heal/support centric classes like Bard. It would leave space open for classes to be added as they're worked on without needing the game to be rebalanced each time one is.

tepid plinth
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I hate the auras. It pretty much forces you to always have all 4 class types and not be creative.

harsh bolt
daring ruin
tepid plinth
tepid plinth
copper valley
sly comet
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The only problem I've ever had with sub/arch classes is identity

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Looking at EQ for example all the class types are pretty much and practically the same class with a different name and a handful of spells

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They lacked any real uniqueness for the most part

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Which is why I've always liked wows approach of talent trees that allowed unique classes that had an identity and then a skill and passive tree system that allowed said classes to be played entirely different

daring ruin
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This is fair. And after reading the roadmap and seeing Brian wants to seperate the support effects from duelist and have arcanist be a more dedicated control class, I think I agree. I'm still not entirely sold party size at 5, but I think the classes having much more defined boundaries is a good thing.
I just really, really hate talent trees and that might be coloring my opinion. At best, they're a boring way to give a class something it should already have. At worst, they provide power the class has to be balanced around, punishing you for not taking the 'correct' nodes.
I would love some flexibility in what each class can do ie; specs that emphasize different roles, but I don't think talent trees are the way to do it

harsh bolt
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The next class will hybridize roles that already exist, it won't be an essential new role

neat rampart
daring ruin
neat rampart
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true I guess

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maybe I'm not a good person to ask though cuz I'd just turn this game into PoE rooDerp

daring ruin
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Even something as simple as nodes that act as a toggle to support you in the role you want to do might help. Tank node provides defenses and threat, dps node bumps your damage output etc

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please no... I spend more time in that damned passive chart than I do playing the build

neat rampart
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Path of Building is the Game, PoE is just the testrealm phunkGnihi

tepid plinth
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No joke I’ve poured hours making a build in poe only to try it for far less time then it took for me to plan it and either not like it or it sucks.

glad hound
# sly comet Tbh classless or not , its always a trinity system. You have a healer tank and d...

It's not always a trinity system.
I can come up with a few examples.

  1. Most action RPGs aren't really trinities, the characters stand alone.
  2. City of Heroes was a trinity system, then they came out with the compliment City of Villains, where the trinity was redistributed. Each class stood on its own, but had two of the trinity roles blended. In the end, the BEST endgame group turned out to be a full team of CoH support class due to overbuffing.
  3. Guild Wars didn't really have a true tank. It was DPS and support.
sly comet
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They even then still fall into one of the trinity categories, but arpgs also arent mmorpgs

glad hound
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Not really.
You can't really understand a trinityless system unless you play it.

sly comet
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Guild wars had the 55 monk

glad hound
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GW1.

sly comet
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Runescape and maybe rotmg are really the only ones that come to mind that dont actually have a take on it

glad hound
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Point being, you can have an MMO without it. It's just hard to get right.

sly comet
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Def hard to get right, even harder to make one thats successful

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Which i blame on us for that

glad hound
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MMOs in general aren't really successful.

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Not in the broad sense.

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Vast majority fizzle out, and we're left with WoW and FF14 again.

sly comet
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Nope mostly just the big 5 that we all cry about losing its touch but then never truly give any others that do come out a real chance

glad hound
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CoH has a private server, psuedo blessing to keep it running. NFSoft kinda shrugged and ignores it.

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I recommend people try that. Vast majority of the time, you're ending up with overbuffer teams, CC teams, or just everybody teams. Trinity is available, but not necessary.

sly comet
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Honestly I think Rift was the last real mmo I was truly excited about and had what I thought one of the better class systems. People werent really willing to abandon wow or ff14 altogether nor pay for another sub then trion world p2w greed killed off most their games

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All except trove which still somehow manages to do well even after being bought out

glad hound
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People don't want to sub, but by far subbing makes MMOs vastly superior.

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That's why I'm enjoying this game, it plays like a subbed MMO.

sly comet
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Honestly it does.. wildstar had one of the best f2p models and even that couldnt save it from devs who did nothing about bots and its previously failed launch

glad hound
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Thing is WoW is starting to become a hybrid double dipper. It killed it for me.

sly comet
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Agreed, Erenshor does so much right, very little wrong, and what it lacks here and there Brian has been more than willing to accommodate without sacrificing his own vision

glad hound
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ESO went F2P and abandoned their promise to make subs have all free DLC, killed it for me.

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I want to see how Brian hooked up the AI chat. I would love to make my own sim player that's a little more involved.

sly comet
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I play ESO very casually so that doesnt truly bother me as I pop in here and there a few times a year when I have time, work on my house explore a bit and then move on without any fomo

glad hound
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It wasn't so much the fomo, it was that they promised all DLC for free for subs. Then made the next DLC an "expansion" so they could still charge for it. At that point, I hadn't really benefitted from the sub, but was willing to pay it. Betrayed.

sly comet
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NWO is still one of my guilty pleasures , for some reason I have no problem putting money into it when I can

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I think its mostly because quest wise its story telling is some of the best and most unique out there

glad hound
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NWO?

sly comet
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I haven't been able to find it again but there was one with 2 guys at a table and you went in a mineshaft with a minecart , it was just so fun and different

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Never winter online

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Not a DnD table top fan , but I always loved the DnD lore and world

glad hound
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For me it was Skyforge. It did so much better than Vindictus at being the same thing, and it had a FFXII like mix of magic/tech.

sly comet
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Sky forge was initially great as well

glad hound
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Then they redid the progression 😦

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Not that I didn't disagree. The old system sucked, but I lost progress.

sly comet
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Yeah I remember that I think I revisited it maybe 6 months or so ago on xbox and something just felt off with it sadly

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And yeah my characters lost alot of progress

glad hound
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It had this sphere grid like unlock system, and it was wonky, then they replaced it with linear unlock, but I was an inch from getting the class I wanted.

sly comet
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Dc universe might have actually been cool if it would lose its insane amount of greed and was designed a bit more mmorpgish

glad hound
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BDO was great, but it turns into a gank fest with its forced PvP. That's why I'm not getting into Dune.

sly comet
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Which is weird to say as I genuinely am not a fan of DC

glad hound
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DCUO is broken endgame. You have to learn animation canceling to compete DPS charts.

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ZERO interest in that bs.

sly comet
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Swtor (also not a fan of sw) was actually fun, I just dont like dungeon flamers that get pissed when you dont skip cutscenes you've never seen before as a new player and then blaze through all the short cuts and dont help teach ya anything

glad hound
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But that's another that skirts the trinity a bit.

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I overthought SWTOR.... there's a benefit to finishing all the classes story, and I burnt out trying to do that. Unsubbed, it's just..... not fun.

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So I subbed and tried to go for it, and just played it too much.

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All of these games just.... shoot themselves in the foot with F2P. It makes it unfun.

sly comet
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Honestly playing wow classic cata and now mop with my daughter is pretty much where its at mmo wise, I dont enjoy the game at all anymore like I used too, but I enjoy helping her and like that its memories she ll always have and could one day revisit after I m gone

glad hound
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Ironically, FF11 does a good job, and guess what.... It also has simplayers O_O

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They're not always simming, but they do come from quest lines. So it's more like.... Fallout 4 companions.

sly comet
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Thats why I enjoy gw1 still , mercs and henchmen , loved they built a mmorpg around that so whether theres 10k online tomorrow or 1 player, I can still do the content and never have to worry about it being a dead mmo

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Genuinely wish more games did this , maint mode when game is no longer producing a profit worth worrying about and dont need to sunset

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Which is also another great thing with this game, 10 years from now can still fire it up and enjoy

fringe thorn
fallow quartz
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I’m a dude that loves my necromancer classes, especially EQ and Diablo II Necromancers. However - I could easily be just as invested into a summoner class that is similar to EQ’s Magician class. It was able to summon all 4 elemental types, each one with a specific utility. Earth elemental was able to root, Fire Elemental had damage shield, Air could stun and water for some reason was top DPS. I think you could easily integrate something similar with a summoner class here and make the pets less effective than their player/sim class counterparts, but synergize with the summoner to be just as effective depending on spells/ability selection.

But that said, I would love to see a Necromancer or Shadow Knight type class at some point.

austere perch
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Just my thoughts, bring in one more of each type.

Warrior - a second tank class, but maybe can only 1h and shield and duel wield (Paladin has 2hander and 1h and shield), could work with dps as duel wield like in wow.

Monk - the unarmed dps, could be like the monks of eq with a slight tanking style but mainly for dps.

necromancer - another caster who works with pets, dots and life steal etc,

cleric - brings a plate healer style, could mainly be healer but also allow small melee dps style.

with those you could get a few tank options in groups (Paladin, warrior, semi monk, semi duelist), lots of dps options (DW warrior, 2h pala, duelist, monk for melee, necro, arcanist, cleric could semi if good smites, druid dots semi for range) both melee and ranged, and have a couple of healing options, (Cleric, druid, semi paladin) especially if paladins can semi heal. Bump the group to 5 and now you can use 2 semi healers instead of a main one and both can still add other aspects.

also of course a bard would be lovely for song based support with some dps.

kindred arrow
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how about a mage/knight hybrid, with a twist.... this class summons its armor.. and weapons... doesn't use any weapons/armor in the game it summons all of it, and can also summons it and equip the pet hehe an interesting solo self found approach... and yes. . it gets a pet.

fallow quartz
# kindred arrow how about a mage/knight hybrid, with a twist.... this class summons its armor.. ...

Sounds similar to some aspects of an Everquest magician, as their “Epic Weapon” was a spell that would summon the actual weapon, and then the weapon was used to summon an elemental. They could also summon armor in the third expansion, although it was more meant as pet armor, it could also be worn by players as a “better than nothing”.

Enchanters in Everquest could summon a floating shield and sword, which would thematically work with your idea, a mage/knight with a more “knightly” pet.

sly comet
frank garnet
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Some classes idea's that could fit into the current class set as fillers especially if guilds and raids are going to be a thing:

Monk who is a martial dps with pulling abilities like FD

Shadow Knight an aoe dot / lifetap class that has less mitigation than a paladin and is a 2hand primary class.

Shaman who is a an aoe healer / buffer that has slows and haste

Enchanter Long duration charms, aoe mez, haste, mana regen some dmg spells but nothing like the arcanist

Bard low dps sing twisting hp/mana regen, resists, haste, slow

unkempt thicket
upper spindle
harsh bolt
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What would a witch theme entail

upper spindle
sly comet
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There's a witch in BDO

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And DFO, witch is a hybrid of alchemist and Sorcerer, so they'd use alchemical and familiar based spells

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Honestly id like to see an Enchanter class, mostly buff debuff and support magic , with dmg dealing cc as their main form of attacking

warm sapphire
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Personally I feel a witch would be nature spells and curses. The nature spells would be more swamp and decay oriented.

fallow quartz
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When I think of Witches, I think of the Minecraft mod, Witchery. It had several aspects and inspirations - brewing potions, circle magic, wands, familiars, poppets, etc.

In an MMO setting, alchemy and throwable potions, wand use, AOE buffs or curses (think circle magic), maybe otherworldly benefactors, familiars that can provide passive buffs while following them around, things like that which can add unique effects. The poppet/voodoo doll angle can be used like a “mark” where one enemy at a time can have a constant debuff (needle in leg slows them down, needle in arm decreases haste, needle in head reduces spell damage, etc) and they are all on a shared timer. Just spitballing ideas

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So it would follow a little bit of nature, a little bit of occult in theme.

sly comet
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Gotta have a cat too

upper spindle
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A Witch could have a pet class component as well, like a Familiar which could be a cat, frog, crow, etc. You could even make a class quest wherein they have to unlock that feature and "choose" the type of familiar they get. The more I think about it I would see them as a support class, buffs as well as debuffs, perhaps minor healing, and then a little DPS.

upper spindle
sly comet
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I fell in love with the idea of enchanter after Aion and then the Anime "Log Horizon"

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With Shiro being pretty weak but with proper planning and skill, could dish out devastating dmg

upper spindle
hoary dock
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Monk please!! Classic EQ Monk

thin vault
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I’d love to see a shape shifting class like WoW Druids

dusty leaf
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+1 for a summoner class. I actually picked the Druid purely as it mentioned summons but was very underwhelmed
I'd say Druid feels more like affliction Warlock than Druid to me (DPS wise); don't know if their summons improve late game, but so far they seem pretty meh. 🤷‍♂️

In order of general summoner class coolness to me:

  • The classic undead army necromancer (I assume there would be issues with summoning large amounts of minions though so probably no 'army')
  • Beast-master/hunter with animal companions (preferably bow/ranged based)
  • Druid specialisation with nature spirit/fey summons (that actually focuses on the summons)
  • Warlock with demonic summons
  • Shaman with a focus on fire/water/air/earth/etc elementals
  • Something along the lines of Last Epoch's Forge Guard that summons animated weapons/shields/armor

Would also like to see some sort of death/void knight as a paladin/tank alternative

dusty leaf
# daring ruin Considering the game's many inspirations, I'm surprised no one has pointed out t...

Could definitely see there being some sort of subclass/specialisation system like this Vs adding completely new classes. So 5 spots = 5 base classes but each class can have multiple specialisations...though that would likely require a total class upheaval as paladin would be a warrior subclass, stormcaller would be rogue/archer subclass, etc. This is the one from last epoch that works kinda that way (they don't quite have an arcane-archer class but otherwise):

In that case I'd be thinking something like:
Warr > Paladin
Warr > Deathknight (2H focus melee, dps/tank, no heals but life steal)
Archer > Stormcaller
Archer > Beastmaster (physical focused ranged DPS class with a pet, trap CC)
Mage > Arcanist
Mage > Necromancer (magic ranged, summon based dps with curse debuffs)
Rogue > Dualist
Rogue > Bard - zero DPS class, cc, buffs and heals only (probably a nightmare to balance but would be interesting!)
Acolyte > Druid
Acolyte > Priest - if you're wanting another healing focused class (maybe with a focused on shield based healing rather than direct healing/HoT)
Acolyte > Shaman(with totems)/Monk(unarmed combat) if not wanting another 'very healer focused' class

Thought about Warlock but think they'd feel too close to the Druid in it's current iteration (unless it was made a summon class). Just my 2C anyhow 😉

image.png
edgy plume
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Hi! Just wanted to put my 2gp in the ring.
I feel like the ROSE Online class Dealer was a really interesting and seldom represented archetype.
The class was focused on secondary benefits like increased drop rate, increase gold drop, better crafting, various utility like that.
I think that concept would play really well with a unique summoner class concept of being able to place a turret/cannon that would have a long cooldown making the class more suited to setting up a camp and pulling to it than roaming a dungeon quickly, though the ROSE Online class went a different route of hiring a mercenary to fight for you. They used pistols or cannons as weapons.

I just really love the engineer/alchemist/trader vibe of being a utility class with economic benefits.

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Though a support/buff class like bard would be equally sick

spark laurel
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I need a barbarian class with a sword so big it looks like a giant garden spade with an AE reach to match its size, and a jump ability with a CD so short I can hop around everywhere like a battle toad.

shut grotto
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would be interested in a shapeshifting class that has a wolf, bear, or cat form 😄

regal oyster
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Can’t wait for some class diversity and options to build a party with, really don’t like just Paladin as tank and I’d love monks! Love the game but waiting to play looking forward to the future before I really do a real playthrough. Love what I see, letting Brian cook.

brazen flax
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Would love me a dual weapon tank with procs like the EQ warrior

empty remnant
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i just want a magic knight, gimme some sword imbues or a plate wearing sword wielding guy who can like toss a fireball or something