#Nexon´s help Thread

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rich wave
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Hey, I want to use this thread to get some general and siege related help.
For Context:
Im in a G3 ~R2 Guild and aiming to improve player wise and account wise.
Here you can see my Monsterbox:

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deft lotus
rich wave
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Currently i feel like I am at a point where I am facing a wall and I dont really know what the best direction for my account is.

More specific I am now at a point where I have a few but not so great swift spd quads and pretty much only farm Giants for quad speed runes that are like 27+ base and I am not sure if that is the right choice anymore. Farming Necro or Dragons would give me a higher chance of "usable" runes because these sets are more versatile.
What is more important for higher siege swift top set or improving line on the other sets?

whole pond
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I cant tell you what to farm just based on this

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while swift topset is pretty important and great to have, you'll be having an easier time improving your other runes

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though I dont think farming dragons is the answer

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you can use your amerias luck in necro, its great

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what guild are you in? and how are you performing

rich wave
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NoInactives. We are always between rank 20ish-30ish.
Personally im doing okay ~85wr+

whole pond
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Hey we fought you yday frfr

rich wave
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I had great sucess the last weeks but yesterday we got matched against apoc and infinity and the rune Gap WAS INSANE

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I run into 4 traps

whole pond
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while improving your account is very important, the best way to improve as a player will be to post hits and ask for feedback on them

rich wave
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w8 let me look up my loses

raven juniper
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ur handpicking an offense

whole pond
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not everyone is op as u....

raven juniper
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into an enemy defense

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thats controlled by ai

rich wave
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I have seen no thread of the enemy team that i could tank Turn 1. So i tought i can just Panda it and sustain/destory them
It was Wonsa S3 -> Ren S3 into proc S2 def break on Panda -> Mimir s3 -> Mimir s2 -> Mimir s1. Then the Panda was dead...

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raven juniper
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u should be 90% minimum?

whole pond
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its average

raven juniper
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rly

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xD

whole pond
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yea

raven juniper
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damn..

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siej hype

whole pond
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and yeah, what can easily happen

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happened

raven juniper
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this just looks like no brain preset spam

rich wave
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@raven juniper Im sorry im relatively new and still learning. I do have great sucess into R1 Guilds but im struggeling very hard against higher level. My Wr is going down when fighting guilds like Apoc, Red, Belli or Syndicate. I know i am far away from a "good" player but thats why im here

raven juniper
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thats fine

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the issue is that it looks like youre not actually thinking about the hits

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u should analyze each defense and then play the fight out in ur head

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what would happen most of the time? whats the worst case scenario? what happens if its swift vs vio?

rich wave
whole pond
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thats understandable

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altho what you fought yday wasnt really

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'meta'

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apoc and 1nf run very different and diverse defenses

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totally different from other top guilds

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but yes, seeing new defs can be overwhelming

raven juniper
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thats when we abuse thinking!

whole pond
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like lovi said, take your time and try to think about the defense

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a lot of people underestimate how much time you actually have in siege

rich wave
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Yeah idk you both did some crazy shit i couldnt comprehend. I have my safe counters against the most defs and i agree with Lovi i should have taken more time. I had great sucess the past weeks were i had like 95%wr and where i took my time

whole pond
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apoc and 1nf have pretty tough defenses

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dont worry about it and dont be scared of losing

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a loss is a bigger lesson than a win

rich wave
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You will see some more maybe not so great offenses. My performance yesterday was very very bad and not my personal standart i would say 😅

whole pond
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thats okay we all have those sieges

rich wave
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My though process was. Everything max Res and like +35-40k hp. Survive turn 1 and then sustain and destroy them.
It was a cr Anavel which hit every debuff and good dmg on dominic into seara bomb 33k without atk buff.

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whole pond
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you should never count on your max res doing anything

raven juniper
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do u know

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how res vs acc works

rich wave
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Yeah i ddint even tought i would need to rely on resistance. I thought i can tank turn 1 easily

whole pond
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honestly

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you shouldve just skipped this def

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im not hitting this either

whole pond
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(they do)

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dont feel bad about losing to this defense, its hard, your best bet would be to use cayde probably if you have one

rich wave
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Yeah i guess thats were my tought process went wrong xD

whole pond
rich wave
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TBH this siege was lost the second we matched yall. I did just hit everything that was up see how the top level defs are

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It wouldnt have made a change if i go 10-0 or not. I will take this as a learning

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Its just the personal season wr that gets fucked by that

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But dont get me wrong i did put effort in runing and overall making the offence but in other sieges i would rather skip hits im not confident in

whole pond
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learning the hard way works

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did you have any other losses?

gray warren
rich wave
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my Idea: Steal all Stats and then they do not enough dmg and i kill them Slowly.
Again this is the first time seeing this def so i didnt know what to play. I dont use this offense often only in these geldnir, Ophilia, theomars stuff.

They were all super slow ultra high dmg. I think like +130+140 and absolutely blasted my stuff

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gray warren
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You can beat this with pure fundamentals

whole pond
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yeah this def is fml

gray warren
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There’s some tech to get from 90+ to 98 here but this defense is fundamentally bad

gray warren
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What you’re seeing usually isn’t rune gap

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But better guilds are generally better at making more coherent builds

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Where they’re relatively minmaxed and exist to do one specific thing

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Where in this case you feel the stats/procs more because they’re in the right place if that makes sense

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I’d push to (outside of swift because that’s just rune quality) look at it from the lens of how optimized it is

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My favorite example is sav - im not scared of a 120 efficiency sav as an offense player

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I’m scared of the sav with max acc a cd slot and no stats other than offensive ones

rich wave
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I think i understand what youre saying. For Context this is my second G3 siege season and hopefully my first tourney one. I do need to learn a lot of stuff. I am just to unexperienced in some scenarios and yesterday was a massacre to my ego. I felt like i am just getting gaped by everything out there and i want to change that

gray warren
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To be blunt for a moment

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Both of the offenses you have shared I look at and runes aside consider inting

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It’s really you’re in the deep end

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Where comp selection starts mattering a lot because defenses are built in a way where if the dice doesn’t screw them they start killing things

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*3

gray warren
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You don’t really have anything mitigating the basic gameplan of this defense at all so if it does what it’s supposed to do (ie ai/acc res doesn’t screw it) it wins most of the time

rich wave
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Yeah for sure. Im absoluty sure that what ive done yesterday was very very bad. I was intimidated a lot and idk my brain stoped functioning. Im kinda ashame by myself but i really want to improve and learn from my mistakes

gray warren
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A lot of these you can approach from the basics and do fairly well

elder hawk
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haha sorry everyone's flaming you

gray warren
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Just sit down and think calmly and you’ll do a lot better vs the defenses you shared

elder hawk
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but they're just excited at the chance to help a real player

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for once

gray warren
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^

elder hawk
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rather than some beginner newb returning player who can't get past pve for the 10th try in a row

gray warren
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You’re leagues more interesting of a help thread than 99% of them

rich wave
elder hawk
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but yea unfortunately the reality check is needed

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you are not getting rune gapped

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in fact it's the other way around

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the only reason you're not doing worse

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is because you are the one rune gapping everyone else

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you are missing the basic fundamentals of the game and siege

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i would really recommend starting with #1412105543967047680

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there are a lot of important concepts there

gray warren
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Yea

elder hawk
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move past the part that its' called "beginner"

gray warren
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Basic ai manipulation lets you safely hit 2/3 of these defenses fairly consistently without much skill

elder hawk
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when you think you are getting rune gapped by apoc and 1nf

gray warren
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Although there is some skill as to picking the best version of the choices available

elder hawk
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in a sense its' true. but overall account quality wise - not really

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you just aren't putting the right runes on your units

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you have them though. you are not being account gapped

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go through the guide slowly and see if you can come up with better teams yourself

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against the defs you lost to yesterday

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we can start there

rich wave
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Okay im gonna read the Beginner PvP after Dinner

elder hawk
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and to your original question - what to farm

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you can share the builds (runes/artis) of your favorite team

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any team

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and we can tell you what you're lacking

rich wave
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Its very hard to accept rn but yall are probably right. I didnt get gapped that hard, more i am just planless using teams that have worked in other scenarios but if i face a well planned def gets absolutely blasted. I really appreciate your input, I hope i come acrross as grateful

gray warren
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The hardest part

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Is accepting you’re doing something wrong

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And then figuring out what to do

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Just recognize there’s a lot to learn and you’ll make mistakes

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And you’ll be fine

rich wave
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So a team i use each siege would be adriana ciri
The Adriana is my top set but can be improved by +2 with ancient legend grind stones

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I also use belial, cami a lot

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whole pond
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?spdtune

gilded pythonBOT
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Speed Tuning
Teams with boosters must be speed tuned. To do this, go to https://www.swspeedtuner.com/ and select the mode you are attempting to tune (Siege, Arena, RTA). Then put your booster monster in the far left slot, then the monster that you want to move immediately after the booster in the next slot, and so on. Make sure to input the correct rune speed for your booster, and if there are %SPD UP artis on any of your monsters, make sure to include those as well. The "Speed Needed" is the green + number that should be next to your monster. If you just want to see the combat speeds needed, toggle the Show Combat Speed checkbox. Be sure to thank the creator by sending a small donation through one of the links at the bottom of the page!

rich wave
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And lastly one of my fav team i think is JLH

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elder hawk
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show artis too

rich wave
# whole pond <:susge:1195452408432689213>

Yeah your right.... I would need 10 more spd on Ciri but i dont have water ones and im losing a lot of dmg. This would be the one when its spd tuned and i think its pretty ass

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whole pond
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youre making compromises that arent optional on all builds

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tirsa is hard to rune but you have to be tuned before anything else

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jeanne needs max acc

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your camilla build is wrong

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helena needs work too, can drop hp for more acc and def (and max res with jeanne lead if your runes allow it)

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overall its very hard to judge rune quality when your builds arent optimised yet

rich wave
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On MY i change left side arti to +dmg im hitting

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elder hawk
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i was just comparing quality, builds are wrong but you can tell already

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i don't think there's any one particular place that looks worse than others in terms of runes vs artis vs grinds

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i can't see grinds but just looking at the stats i think they are mostly fine. your goal at this point is to make sure that any of your most common teams on both off/def have legend grinds on everything (for example, at least +8 on atk/hp/def, and +5 on any booster rune). and if not, then farm r5 until you do

rich wave
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Thanks Simi. I am gonna take your input and try to rerune/optimize my builds before next siege

elder hawk
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some things may not be gemmed correctly either giving you wasted stats (for example are you gemming in flat stats where appropriate?) but overall i dont think its a big issue

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so in terms of what to farm, i would say its still completely up to you

whole pond
elder hawk
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go through the guide, focus on learning how to build proper teams

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the last worry you should have is how to improve your account

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your account level is way higher than the level of siege you're playing at

rich wave
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I do have the policy to myself that i grind every Rune on at least max hero. I have a +5 spd grind on pretty much every rune that has at least +22 Spd. I guess i need to improve that policy to at least min Legend

rich wave
elder hawk
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it's a big jump to get legend quality on everything you use, so not really reasonable for everything that you use. but at least your top 2 defs, maybe top few preset offs

rich wave
rich wave
# rich wave I have seen no thread of the enemy team that i could tank Turn 1. So i tought i ...

I am currently reading the beginner pvp tab and I want to share my thoughts of that while keeping my losses in mind.

To this defense a idea of me was to ciri Adriana snipe it with off will but that’s because I now know that wonsa is on swift and ren on vio.

I wanna take a step back and think about the def like I have no info.
The possibility is either wonsa is first or ren, both have very high base spd and because I’m not confident in my swift top set at this level I would discard the idea of sniping/cleaving it.

Now to the bruisering:
The main threads in this defense is the branding of mimir and the def break of ren. My initial idea would be Feng, Aaliyah, dark tank
But this can go wrong when ren hits a def break on the panda and since mimir has neutral element on wind this can go wrong. So I would like to funnel both threads into one unit. So I still use a dark tank for the mimir but to prevent the def break of ren I should use two water units.
Now to the trick part. Which units to I chose. I kinda got a hint by Simi because he told me to use Cayde and that’s prob best in slot because he ignores all these harmful effects but I personally see also Dias working in there but then it’s a 2v3 with Dias taking.

Now to the water units. I definitely need one healer, I would chose a Aliyah because she performs good aoe heal but I also see lulu or tetra working but I would prefer Lulu or Aliyah because of better aoe healing and support.
As the dmg dealer I kinda want something bruiser with good dmg. My ideas are chow, Camilla, taor or suiki.

My final answer to this def would be chow, Aaliyah, cayde

As a f2p/ 4 star variant I would use suiki, lulu, cayde

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Now let’s talk about runes and game plan.

Cayde: I would run it on a very high hp set. I don’t see a advantage of vio and since I can’t get any debuffs from the units in this def I would run a pure hp build and try to get as max effective hp as possible while having like 140spd (I don’t have the exact spd ticks in mind)
As of artifacts I would go for - light and - crit dmg
Aaliyah:
vio/will and I would try to make it as tanky as possible and prob good res for the s3 of Ren. I don’t think I am able to make a good efficient Aaliyah build on 286 tick so I would go one tick down but still be in high tick so I potentially move infront of my opponents

Chow:
vio/(blade) I want to be in the same spd tick as Aaliyah but I don’t need to be high tick. I would try to get close to the minimum I need for that tick and get as much stats on him as possible. 100 cr with the most hp possible and also need some attack.

As of artifacts I would go for + dmg on fire and s2 crit dmg

The gameplan is to focus ren -> mimir -> wonsa
I don’t think it makes much difference which I kill first ten or mimir but ren has its provok state so I just take him out first

gray warren
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i personally would favor a unit like suiki who has an inbuilt defense break but thats personal preference. To the point dark double water with a dark tank and the proper support will generally win this

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For your f2p answer though i would personally favor TETRA over lulu - automatically supporting even if she gets stunned is quite nice, and her shield adds a lot of longevity

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A fear i have personally is woonsa s1 - all it takes is a random 2 turn sleep on your support unit and youre kinda sad

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which tetra addresses nicely

rich wave
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AS A 4 Star dmg dealer i would use Eliza the wind cybroc because of self setup. I dont like roid because of the provoke that can end up into a def break of brita if played wrong

rich wave
gray warren
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Hmmmm ok remember where i said this defense is easy but theres some skill to going from 90 to 98%? This is where that comes in.
To start - water tank double wind is generally solving this defense but theres some skill as to picking the right units here.

I will start off by introducing a few things. First - Camilla. Brita is generally good vs camilla, and xing has an absurdly high multiplier on s2. We (Apoc) have fought 1nf a lot and never really used Cami for this defense as its pretty easy to spec those two units to just screw over cami, and if theyre not critting camillas surviveability falls off a cliff. You would not know this intuitively as a newer siege player but that defense is very heavily specced to trap camilla offenses and Cami is actually a bad tank there. I have never used Camilla vs this but paying attention to builds did inform me they run a lot of no cr builds with high damage to try and bait a camilla hit

The second concept is time to kill. There are a lot of really good wind bruisers, so first off f2p options are often not super needed as there are like.... 5 really good wind bruisers to use here that you probably wouldnt run out of even if you have singletons. I am a huge Ethna proponent in general, but units like Seara, Momo, Domonic, Wind Zenitsu etc all do ~ the same job of killing them first. Youre often racing down their units so having units who aggressively pressure their life totals goes a long ways

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So other tanks are a good idea. You noted tractor, but other units like Talc are also good here if you can get the necessary support. Angela is cool

rich wave
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Ok thats suprising but understandable

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I didnt think about that scenario and indeed camilla can get destroyed pretty heavily and at the same time with no crit get huge dmg in

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For me Camilla is the best Water tank BUT thats clearly not true. In some Scenarios there is a better unit as you said with talc or Tractor

rich wave
# rich wave My though process was. Everything max Res and like +35-40k hp. Survive turn 1 an...

I really understand now why this defense is so good. Because of the Def break of the anavel its random where the bomb goes and this makes hit hard to funnel the attacks.
I am probably skipping out of these defs but if i have to hit these my idea is:
Roid, Riley, Rina.
I would build the rina on as much hp as possible without any resistance so i hopefully take the def break of anavel. At the same time i would build roid and Riley on max Res.
But still this isnt a safe offense because the def break can resist on the Rina and can hit on Riley/Roid

gray warren
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Yea this is an actually hard defense to solve - unlike the other two this was ran and spammed in a finals match

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I would fully expect this to be a dodge situation

rich wave
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If i throw away the concept of bruisering i have a idea to snipe it but i dont have enough experience to know if its viable.
My Idea would be 2 Wind Units that can 2v2 Anavel and Lora with a Magnum.

The biggest thread i see on that def is the bomb so my idea is to play for example:

gray warren
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Hmmmm Lora can just proc and use s2

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or be on despair

rich wave
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Yeah

gray warren
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imo this defense is out of your pay grade as a newer siege player

rich wave
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Ok hahha i didnt tought far enough

gray warren
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dw about this defense

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until youre more learned at siege

rich wave
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For me Lora was a Swift only unit but yeah thats straight up not true. Im def. gonna skip out of these haha

gray warren
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Lora is generally one of the scariest units on defense because she simultaneously blocks cleaves and makes bruisering a mess

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While youll have to deal with her as shes kind of a mainstay in siege atm i would focus on other defenses

rich wave
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Prob thats why Fiona, Ethna, Lami is played from both of you

gray warren
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Yea ethna is is also a good unit for the reasons you mentioned

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but ethna is 1. 1 base speed slower

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and 2. doesnt feasibly tune her team behind her

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Ethna you can feasibly use a water lead unit to eat a swift s3 so your cleave continues interrupted

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while lora just speed buff tunes her team to kill you

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you can do cute stuff like speed lead double fire to cleave ethna defenses

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while most lora defenses have a swift variant that has everything tuned to lora clicking s3

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that said ethna is goated

rich wave
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Yeah thats the ld5 gap haha. But for me the Ethna def is also very scary.
If i had to hit one of the ethna defs yesterday i would probly run 3x Fire

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smth like ashour, racuni, Kumar/Nora or smth But thats not safe. Im gonna think about that def with my new knowlege but so far i have no answer to this def

gray warren
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it takes time

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and siege is a team sport anyways

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does No Inactives discuss offense stuff and what to bring?

rich wave
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And btw @elder hawk The Beginner Pvp Guide is goated. I read a lot i didnt know so far. i really appreciate your work

rich wave
# gray warren does No Inactives discuss offense stuff and what to bring?

We do have a channel with safe counters but its safe to say that there isnt everything in it. While siege is active we do discuss about the defs and what we could play but sometimes you gonna need to take the towers and more or less your at your own. Its smth different if we already saw the def

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But i do try to learn from the more experienced players and learn from their teams and also from their mistakes

whole pond
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im not sure how good NI is, but you’ll have to finish the season there for sure

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after this season we can take a look at a potential better guild to play in

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the best way to improve is to surround yourself with players who are all better than you

rich wave
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Tbh i was really greatfull to even get accepted into a R2 guild. I didn’t knew my capabilities and what I could achieve

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Btw one question I have about the beginner pvp more specific about spd ticks.

So I think I do now understand the functionality of spd but I am more wondering about the exact spd values.

So e.g I need a 286 unit to be on Tick 5. if I have a unit with 100 base I don’t need 186 from runes right? I need to multiply the spd towers to it? Or are the spd towers already in that 286 calculation?

rich wave
whole pond
rich wave
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Yeah for sure 🫡

whole pond
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so if you have max tower and 24 lead

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its

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100 x (1 + 0.15 + 0.24) + rune spd

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or 139 + runespd

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to get to 286 tick you do 286 - 139

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thats the spd you need from runes

rich wave
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Okay okay in that case a cami would need +122 to be on tick 6

whole pond
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thats right

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but camilla is one of those monsters you want to have on 286 tick

rich wave
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ohhh really that’s what I was thinking about today. I wasn’t sure if a very tanky tick6 or a not so tanky tick 5 is better

whole pond
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well ideally you want tanky tick 5

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with acc and cr being a great bonus

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heres mine (I can barely get any cr or acc)

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rich wave
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Im not fully rdy but I did take a bit of time thinking about what stats I want on a cami

My thoughts were:
tick5 or tick6 with like 25 acc to have a good chance to freeze non 100 res units, and then very tanky to survive as long as possible. I did play a bit around with the advanced rune tool and also tried to rune myself and I still need to optimize my builds further but that’s the result so far

IMG_0436.png IMG_0437.png
whole pond
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that tick 5 build looks better to me

rich wave
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Yeah I need to see if everything is gemmed and grinned right but these 4K hp you have more is a lot

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Also since I started looking a bit into builds for my fav teams I did see that I am missing a lot of rune depth. E.g I’m capable of doing like maybe 2 nearly same builds in terms of efficiency and then it’s getting worse a lot.

Also for Helena I’m missing runes that have like hp crit and res.

I guess my past self did just sell them because I didn’t have the vision where the rune is good

whole pond
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ok heres a better example sorry

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(pretend its on tick)

whole pond
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I used to do without res too

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lacking depth is normal, I struggle with it too

rich wave
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One huge problem I have is that I have to rerune most attacks I do. This isn’t a problem to me more I ensure that i use the best runes possible. The problem is that I sometimes have to use runes from defenses for that, mainly when bruisering

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I have 4 defenses placed is this a sign I should place fewer?

whole pond
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yes you should have less defenses

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I steal runes from defenses too pretty much every hit

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you should try making 2 strong defenses first

rich wave
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Okay okay but I will change that after the BP. I will see which defenses we are using and really only rune up 2 of these

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The BP is next week right?

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Nvm fuck it lol I will just gonna learn from that. Prob I need to remake the most defs after BP but it’s a good learning exercise

whole pond
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most likely you wont have to remake defs

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this patch is probably gonna hit rta pretty hard, I dont think siege def will change a lot before tourney

elder hawk
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don't wait for bp for anything

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if you're a serious siege player, defs aren't something you make once and forget about it. they are never "done"

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you'll constantly be looking to change or improve them

gray warren
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See for me

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There’s a window where it’s not worth tinkering

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Of about… a week-2weeks around patch

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Because the return on investment for actually labbing something cohesive out isn’t worth it given patch will very likely change the landscape of what you’re playing with

rich wave
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Yeah get that but for me the return of investment is the learning and the progress of building a actually good defense

rich wave
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I took my time and deleted every defense I had and choose 2 defenses I want to build

Def 1: Fiona, Ethna, Lamiella
Def 2: Morris, Vigor, Liu Mei

If I’m not mistaken both 1nf and you guys did run these defs.

So let’s start with def1:
I think the only unit that’s is kinda fixed on this team is probably the Vio Lamiella. Both Fiona and Ethan can be Vio, Swift or even Desp.

In my case I choose a swift Fiona and vio ethna.

Lamiella:
My Goal for Lamiella is Vio/Will, tick 5 with ~40-50acc and as much hp as possible

Fiona:
As fast as possible by having max acc

Ethna:
because I have a 28 lead I think I want to try going for a Tick 4 vio ethna.
Max crit, ~30 acc to land def break and good ark for dmg

Tbh this is all intuition if you want to call it like that. Since I don’t exactly know what you play in this def I am having a hard time deciding how I want to setup this def.

The result of this looks like this:

IMG_0439.png IMG_0443.png IMG_0440.png IMG_0444.png IMG_0442.png IMG_0445.png
elder hawk
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you should start by figuring out what are common teams people may bring into your def

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what would you personally use? what about your guildies? you can ask them, or if you have swgt you can just look up stats directly

rich wave
#

Ok so for my part i would prob go
Cami + 2x Fire
My Idea would be ashour, Rakan, Cami
Cami tanking the Ethan and with rakan and ashour I have high hp mons that don’t die to Lamiella (or I think so) and with cami ashour I feel like I have enough sustain

#

About guildies I have seen a few JLH into this or like 3x wind eladriel Diana stuff.
But your right I prob did the wrong approach.
I will start over again. I now know which defs I want to place and now I’m gonna research which counters there are and prob countering one of these commonly used ones

marsh topaz
# rich wave One huge problem I have is that I have to rerune most attacks I do. This isn’t a...

Reruning for hits is very common. Use decks, load from rta, load from main box etc to make your life easier. I probably don’t do a single hit without some form of reruning or arti modifications.

Another useful habit is to prepare offenses in anticipation for a tower opening. Let’s say a guild is spamming tarn sav figaro. I will rune up a counter with my best runes available 10 minutes before so that I can enter immediately.

#

Allows you to put your best runes forwards while not compromising speed. Just need to be careful about live defenses

marsh topaz
rich wave
#

About SWGT i do have acess to the guilds SWGT but it got reset earlier this season so there isnt as much info on it yet

#

But i do also have the personal for keeping track about own account progression

whole pond
#

I think rain wants to show u the spd tuner there

#

but

#

its easier

#

theres only a few things that it cant do afaik that swgt can

#

and I dont think you have to worry about that

marsh topaz
#

Simi is right I was going to suggest you check out their speed tuner. It’s fairly complicated and you can get similar results from just using something like swspeedtuner.com. However I’m a big proponent of learning the fundamentals and the background before jumping straight towards using the easy to digest tool. Theres a lot you can learn about ticks that you won’t get if you just jump straight towards the answer.

whole pond
elder hawk
rich wave
gray warren
#

Honestly i would just

#

read the wiki for how atb works

#

the actual mechanics of atb are pretty simple and you can understand it well enough to make tools after a 5minute read of how the mechanics actually work

rich wave
#

You mean the beginner PVP? I did read it yesterday

gray warren
#

No i mean the literal sw wiki page of how atb works

rich wave
#

oh ok gonna check that out 🫡

gray warren
elder hawk
#

that link is dead. i dont think sw wikia has ever had a good page with explanation of attack bar

#

the original attack bar explanation was that reddit thread

#

there's a link on the old beginner pvp guide

#

im pretty happy with my explanation of attack bar in the current guide. if you can find a better non-video explanation, please show me

gray warren
#

"

  1. At the beginning of every battle, each monster's Attack Bar starts at zero.
  2. The clock ticks. Every monster fills its Attack Bar by 7% of its Attack Speed.
  3. If any monster's Attack Bar has reached or exceeded 100%, then that monster gets a turn. If not, then go back to step two.
    -- If more than one monster has passed 100% Attack Bar at the same time, the monster with the higher Attack Bar gets a turn first. (Attack Bar does not stop at 100%, it can "overflow.")
  4. After the monster's turn is over, go back to step two.
    -- In the event of an Additional Turn, for example due to Violent proc or the result of a skill effect, no additional tick happens; that monster just gets another turn. Go back to step two when all the Additional Turns are over."
rich wave
#

This siege did go a lot better this time. The only think I wasn’t to happy about was this hit here:

My thought process was that their main dmg gonna be the Reno and he needs to roll the same number to have a safe crit. I though I can control and at the same time do enough dmg with roid and with Delphoi remove the passive from
Morris long enough. This wasn’t really the case and it was very close at some point because of the procs.

One thing I got recommended from a few people was when you can cleave a def you definitely should.
I was wondering if I could use mihyang, chilling, Miriam into this def?

IMG_0446.png
#

I do try to come up with a better hit than I did but I don’t know one as of yet

gray warren
#

Not the worst first pass but you’re right you can definitely do better

#

Delete

#

He must learn

whole pond
#

🥺

gray warren
#

@rich wave there is a very good 4* unit who is basically built to fight units like Reno

#

Look thru ur units and see if you can identify who im talking about

#

/Pokédex if you somehow don’t have this unit built

rich wave
#

Is it maybe kunite? @gray warren he does lower the dmg of multi hits at the beginning of a fight

whole pond
#

good job

rich wave
#

Ok great but I do only have on so I’m gonna build 4 more

#

So I guess you do want to place a dmg bruiser and healer next to the kunite.

The first thing that comes up to my mind is Eliza and tetra But I don’t have the experience if this is the best in slot

#

Idk maybe it’s bait but I’m always tempted to pick Eliza to bruiser morris

gray warren
#

So

#

Ime

#

Eliza is kind of a paper tiger

#

Who looks scary but usually gets out tempoed

#

But yea rock is a good place to start

#

Walk me thru ur thought process as to what angle u wanna take

rich wave
#

Ok so Iets start with the def it self.
There are two options here either a swift eshir or some sort of bruiser high dmg
The morris always gonna be some sort of tanky sustain build I think
And the Reno is either paper rage or I think more commonly a high dmg vio thingy

The threats in this def is the def ignore of Reno and a possible def break stun of morris into s3 eshir.

Since we have everywhere multihits I now learned kunite is a good option because he mitigates multi hit dmg. BUT he needs 70% more hp to get back to this statue thing. This means I’m gonna need a healer at the side of him.

And of course one dmg dealer which can survive a possible def break of morris into some sort of eshir dmg.
To prevent also Reno hitting the dmg dealer I do think a wind dmg dealer would be good or one that can’t get def broken.

In that case I feel like roid or maybe a yen would be a good option. Or maybe a tractor?

Then about the healer. I do want someone that heals a lot. In my thoughts I kinda want a wind healer similar to Riley but I don’t know one because either hunk delphoi or traina have to less sustain.

That’s why I would prob use tetra or maybe even a lulu to also have immunity to protect the dmg dealer further

gray warren
#

Hmmmm not a bad strategy.

#

Worth noting something in your assumptions though

#

Morris is also able to be on a more bruisery additional damage build with destroy and or acc

rich wave
#

Ok that’s smth I didn’t thought about. This would add more dmg to the overall def but i think I should be fine

gray warren
#

It’s a solid first pass - I have some critiques but it’s probably best to let you learn via experience

rich wave
#

Yeah for sure. It’s a learning process. You can’t do everything right you need to fail to improve

#

But I’m glad for the tips and the way you guys are teaching

#

BTW smth a bit off topic and maybe a bit to early but I do want to try to make that jump next season to a potential higher guild. What’s smth I do need to focus about outside of my wr? I know a good wr can open a lot of doors but what’s about rune line and those stuff?

gray warren
#

A lot of the best players I know have lackluster wr data bc they don’t care in season

#

How to play well

#

Both offensively and defensively

#

And how to play well reliably

#

This is gonna sound very generic but just learning how to be a good player

#

And then plugging the holes in ur account basically

#

There’s also more invisible work

#

Being good at macro and willing to do so in season makes an applicant much stronger

#

As does doing more logistical work like tracking certain types of data

rich wave
#

Yeah I do think I have a bit of trouble finding these holes in my account. I do know I need to work more on my vio and will sets but I have trouble runing up the dragons team. Im lacking a bit of dmg but it feels wrong to farm dragons with 30sek avg when you can run giants at 20 avg. you are just losing a lot of progress and my goal is to catch up

#

Maybe I’m just dumb but i want to be as efficient as possible

gray warren
#

I hate recommending this but if you don’t know swgt will triage ur account

#

I don’t think it works well but if you need a starting point it’s a solid place to start just ignore team sets

#

The better approach is literally knowing where ur holes are which you get from just trying to build things and going man if I had x rune this would work

#

But that takes a lot of time to learn

rich wave
#

Yeah that’s true. I also think I often don’t see the vision where a rune could be good because I’m to inexperienced and end up selling that rune. I have seen seii has a rune sell guide from 1 month ago maybe this gonna help me get a better feeling

gray warren
#

Generally

#

Look at the rolls and basically group them

#

Are they high and do the stats work together

#

Acc pairs with anything

#

Cr pairs with anything (res is weird)

#

Etc

rich wave
#

Siege did go well but with two hits I wasn’t happy

I do use the first offense into a few of these combs but eshir with the atk bar boost made things a bit sketchy. I should have done some sort of mimir, fuco stuff to tank the agrius and control the morris and eshir

In the second team I though the only real dmg this offense has is the fermion so I wanted to tank this with a light tank. Since Chandra crits with s1 I thought as soon I took out fermion even Camilla can win this solo. I don’t think this is a good def at all but I think some sort of haegang dot team could have done better. E.g. Louise, hg, rica

IMG_0457.png IMG_0458.png
marsh topaz
rich wave
#

The idea behind is that eshir moves first boosts both the units. Since immensity is on swift he doesn’t ignore def fully and he can survive at least 3-4 hits.
Immensity boosts dozer and I kill morris and best case is MY snipes agrius. If not it’s a bruiser fight but there is a good bit of sustain and tankynes

#

I did think a bit about this defense. As potential threads I have the def ignore of agrius, def break of morris and a potential high dmg eshir with add dmg.

My idea was to tank the agrius with fuco and then run double water to make sure agrius focuses fuco no matter what

#

I was thinking about tetra suiki fuco. But I don’t know if suiki is best in slot but he has a lot of dmg and selfsetup

About builds my idea was to run a standard support build on tetra with vio/nem on tick 5, 100res and as much hp as possible
Suiki on vio/destroy also tick 5 as much stats as possible with good tankynes and atk
Fuco on swift/will with good spd while maint high Hp

#

This would be my answer for this defense but I’m not sure if I’m missing something or If I’m on the right track

elder hawk
#

fuco is an interesting idea, but i would be really concerned about him just getting one shot or close to it, before his passive even comes into play for tanking subsequent hits

#

you do have the right idea though of using a tank for agrius + 2 water

#

i dont like suiki though, he does nothing but damage and doesn't even do that much damage. compare that to something like vigor who can give your team spd buff to help tank agrius even more

#

for the tank, i would really try to use something with immediate damage reduction such as ermeda, kinki, or yeonhwa

raven juniper
#

u just cant tank an agrius with spd buff

#

ive tried pretty much every tank option i can think of after reading skills of every 4* monster and below

#

but he can kill literally anything in a proc

#

u could live it if u go swift + will

#

but then u lose if eshir procs to strip will

#

and u also risk outspeeding the def and losing ur immunity

#

and even if u somehow live first turn

#

ur probably dead t2

#

i think its just a chilling cleave or skip angle

rich wave
#

ok thats interesting. I did test this def i mentioned a lot the past days. I did so far 20-0 against various builds

#

In my testing the agrius couldnt def ignore the fuco fully unless there is a spd buff on the agrius and a slow on fuco. And even then in my case the Agrius couldnt one shot him fully and would need a proc

raven juniper
#

killing within 1 proc

#

is very unsafe

#

like its very likely that he procs

#

and theres a morris on the field

#

and obviously you will win into some builds

#

1 build cant beat everything

#

but you dont know what build the defense is going to be when u send this in tourney

rich wave
#

Killing within one proc IF spd buff and slow. I did not have this scenario yet but i had the feeling that you can pilot around that very good. Also Most of the time the Agrius is slowed himslef or even stunned

raven juniper
#

its just not safe

#

vs anyone that knows how to build a decent defense

whole pond
#

did you test against a build where agrius has will?

rich wave
#

Yeah maybe its a rune issue of the defenseses i tested. I defenetly need to test this offense more in various scenarios but so far i feeled pretty promising

rich wave
whole pond
#

theres one of your problems

#

agrius having will is probably the most important thing for this defense to beat fuco

#

if you want help finding conditions you need to meet when testing offenses you can always ask here

rich wave
#

I will keep you guys updated if your interested but i can see that losing tho. It isnt a 100% for sure but the best i came up with so far

raven juniper
#

i need tech for tourney dead

#

im out of ideas..

whole pond
#

hna slave factory

#

work for us

rich wave
#

Haha

raven juniper
#

i really do think its just chilling cleave or skip unless u have insane runes

rich wave
#

i like the theory crafting part of it and there have to be some sort of counter that can t2 this. I wont give up until i find smoething lol

whole pond
#

I like it a lot too

#

until everything you try fails

raven juniper
whole pond
rich wave
#

Haha i know that feeling. You have a theoretical idea and it gets absolutly crashed in action haha

whole pond
#

you have to keep in mind that most things can be trapped

#

theres gonna be defenses where you come to the conclusion

#

if you just think in theory

#

theres just no solve

raven juniper
#

(t2 vs spd buff agrius)

gray warren
#

. so

rich wave
whole pond
#

🤓

gray warren
#

i wont elaborate bc its more fun this way but you actually can t2 agrius if the defense isnt good

#

and this defense is not good so

#

frfr hf

raven juniper
gray warren
#

No

raven juniper
#

(i only tried vs chilling version)

raven juniper
# gray warren No

but i dont wanna think about eshir version cuz its just chilling but worse so no one will run it..

gray warren
#

I would not say but worse tbh

#

chilling has a pretty different matchup spread and imo only exists to make cleaving him harder

raven juniper
#

do u think theres t2 solve vs morris chilling agrius

#

without god tier runes

gray warren
#

shrug mebe

whole pond
#

the weakest part of the def is lack of strip

#

and chilling has more strip

#

so

rich wave
#

u sure? I hat the feeling the meta moved away from chilling but maybe thats not ture for the top ranks but ive seen much less chillings the past couple of weeks in low tourney ranks

whole pond
gray warren
whole pond
#

i guess eshir is harder to funnel

gray warren
#

and anyways chilling generally does not do well in upper ranks as despite what this server would have you think cleaving is generally weaker than bruisering in a tournament setting so blocking cleaves w. chilling at the expense of not doing a lot against bruisers is a pretty hefty trade

#

like im going to be real for a second if a guild runs a chilling defense i assume they only know how to cleave things

whole pond
#

isnt that most guilds

raven juniper
#

thats me

gray warren
#

worry honestly nowadays who knows

raven juniper
#

i only know how to cleave

#

whos gonna leak tech before tourney..

gray warren
#

im out of touch i see new defenses and go 'but why'

whole pond
#

lovi

#

u barely cleave

#

dont lie

whole pond
raven juniper
#

ur supposed to be on my side and convince ent to leak tech???

gray warren
#

real gamer guilds run VIGOR

whole pond
#

oh my bad

#

SIR ENTREI LEAK TECH PLEASE

gray warren
whole pond
#

you shouldnt keep things from your guildies..

#

I promise I wont tell lovi

gray warren
#

Should i be funny

whole pond
#

lovi did u not see the wink..

raven juniper
#

plz stop using hna thread as general chat

whole pond
#

yes ma'am

gray warren
#

Youre the one who did that

#

anyways back to the topic @ hand

whole pond
#

wrong response ent

raven juniper
gray warren
#

Anyways

#

the general way to approach these kinds of agruis defenses is understand they are generally pretty linear in how they behave

rich wave
#

Never the less i just want to experience a bit with defs and find counters since im missing the experience i will post my stuff here and maybe you guys see smth i miss. I dont think i will come up with smth that no one else could thought about so who cares lol

#

We dont match you either in Tourney lol

gray warren
#

agrius has high spike damage but agrius defenses typically struggle to keep him off of one unit

#

So while fuco is not it, you can often look at where the defenses will hit and start from there

#

Also Re: what lovi said you can probably mork that defense

raven juniper
#

wait what

#

what did i say

gray warren
#

Nobody seems to know how to make things resist mork

gray warren
raven juniper
#

morris chilling agrius?

gray warren
#

No the eshir one

raven juniper
#

o

rich wave
#

Yeeah i did try MY Mork offense but im slow af so i prefer t2. The only t1 i really do is Adri Ciri

whole pond
#

24 eshir isnt THAT bad

#

right

#

28 chilling

raven juniper
#

t1 adri ciri into 4* def

gray warren
#

worry now show ur second set

#

LEO

whole pond
#

haha

#

when people put this def in wgb

#

I giggle

rich wave
#

Yeah you can defenetly race that with chilling but im not too confident in snipes and dont want to be the one throwing lol

whole pond
#

thats another thing

#

sometimes you are just forced to skip defenses

#

it is what it is

rich wave
#

But you guys gave me some more insipration about different types of defs i should test

gray warren
raven juniper
whole pond
rich wave
rich wave
rich wave
#

Sadly i didnt make it Tourney this time but i wish you all Good Luck ❤️

whole pond
#

😔 next season

#

you can still treat your 'tourney sieges' as practice and post here !

rich wave
#

I didnt perform as well as hoped in the last Siege. It wouldnt have made a diffrence but still for my personal progress i was kinda upset with this siege. But i will keep learning and improving. These were my 2 losses:

#

First one i got outspeeded. It was pretty risky to snipe that while beeing slow

whole pond
#

even tho you got outsped, theres no 2v3 here thats actually safe

#

so it wouldve been a bad hit even if you outsped

rich wave
#

Yeah it was a offense a guild mate used so i copied that. My Idea was to snipe Layla and then focus out vancliff with MY

#

I did used the speedtick calc from SWGT the past weeks and i found out if i did it correctly that he needed a 234 vanclif

image.png
#

I did not expect that but i should have been more coutious

#

The second offense i will drop now. I did had great sucess with it mid season but its to unsafe when to many procs/stuns happen. The offense is not good and i wont use it again. I was a bit blinded by using my LD5

#

I know its a bit early since tourney didnt start yet lol and also hard to judge without much info of my account but are there guilds that you guys would recommend for me to apply?

raven juniper
rich wave
#

My Goal for next season or general with sw?

raven juniper
#

both

#

theres guilds that will help you grow as a player and there are guilds that will get you tourney skins

whole pond
#

I actually dont know what the go to r1-2 guild is now for growth

rich wave
#

Next season my main goal is to improv my account and my playstile as much as possible and make it Tourney.
Goal in general may sound bit odd but i want to win the siege tourney one day lol (I know im very very far off but thats my dream)

raven juniper
#

the point is that even in a world where you wouldve won the race, its not safe to 2v3

whole pond
raven juniper
#

youre willing to put in effort and trying to learn

#

even in legend guilds a lot of the players arent great

#

2 hours ago i had to teach a tourney winner how res vs acc works

rich wave
whole pond
#

xD

raven juniper
#

i think looking at guildies for inspiration is a good habit

#

but you need to not copy it blindly

rich wave
#

Yeah for sure thats fully on me

raven juniper
#

you can use it as inspiration and then actually think about the offense

#

(also most ppl are bad and will use bad hits and still win)

whole pond
#

for guild

#

you should always aim high

#

dont be afraid of getting rejected

raven juniper
#

the best way to learn is by being the worst player in your guild!

rich wave
whole pond
#

you can dm rain for belli

raven juniper
#

@marsh topaz

whole pond
#

he gave me a chance when he had no reason to

#

and it worked out

#

if that doesnt work out maybe BLUE is an okay option

raven juniper
#

i mean nexon is showing a lot of potential and i dont think his account is bad

rich wave
#

Thats great to hear. I am willing to put the effort in and i do my best in improving my acc and player

whole pond
#

motivation and dedication will be your best friend

raven juniper
#

shouldnt be hard to find a guild if the leadership isnt npcs

rich wave
#

Im currently writing my application letter for later when i try to apply. I dont really know what to put there but thats what i have so far:

#

I have now 4 seasons of experience in g3. My previous guilds were Trumped and No Inactives. I love finding good counters and Always try to use the best possible offense into the defense.
Genereally speaking im mostly a siege main and always strive to improve myself and my Account. I do spend and try to Keep up my farming for ~16h a day to have the fastet possible progress.
I would love to join a more advanced Guild to keep learning and growing as a Player.

If you have any further Questions please feel free to message me on discord: nexon_p

whole pond
#

honestly

#

just dm rain and have a normal chat about it

rich wave
#

Okay o7

raven juniper
#

(for other guild applications on swgt this sounds fine)

whole pond
#

you can wait until theyre eliminated from tourney maybe

#

so they have their mind set on next season

raven juniper
whole pond
#

theyll lose to apoc in finals

rich wave
whole pond
#

✊

marsh topaz
#

hi

#

yeah send me a message after tourney and we can take it from there. Im not scary and I love your passion for the game. Cant say if there's a spot for you but Im happy to help

whole pond
#

hes very scary

marsh topaz
rich wave
marsh topaz
#

ty

marsh topaz
whole pond
marsh topaz
#

I was hoping you would be our round r4

#

we wont give up against malev but ono

whole pond
#

I was hoping the same

rich wave
#

To keep you guys updated, i did talk to rain but unfortunately i am a bit to weak on the wr and experience side. Im just to far of their standard which is absolutely understandable . I had a rough start into this season and tried to balance that out but still i only have 88wr whole season. On the good side i did improve a lot in my decisions and my account since starting this Thread and have a 93wr since then. With those stats its porb hard to make that jump to a more advanced guild so i probably stay where i am and try to keep the wr up into next season and maybe try to apply after a month of the new season

#

Also Gl against Myth on Monday

deft lotus
#

As long as you’re facing higher g3 guilds with some regularity you can learn plenty even while being in a less-competitive g3 guild. Will just require you to take more initiative and use other resources besides just your guildies. This thread / this server can be a big part of that

rich wave
#

Yeah I totally agree. I’m gonna keep using this thread and other resources to improve further. I would love to face higher guilds more often but I am gonna do the best out of my current situation. Maybe I have a better chance mid season or after the next season. I’m gonna keep up the grind o7

elder hawk
#

you can definitely still move around mid season

#

but i would really try to find a better guild now

#

don't stay in your current guild

#

it's not too late. there's still more than 2 weeks before new siege season starts

#

there's a huge difference in level between NI and belli

#

belli is a top 8 guild. NI is just a random G3 guild that doesn't even make tourney every season

#

with the expanded tourney format, i don't really even consider guilds that make tourney sometimes to be true tourney guilds

#

there's like multiple levels between NI and belli. for example there are guilds like skanks, blue, candy shop, gecko masters, phongtrao, VIP, etc who consistently make tourney, but have little chance against a top 8 guild like belli

raven juniper
#

u can have my spot in skanks ppsitt

whole pond
#

thank you

raven juniper
#

not you..

whole pond
#

oh..

raven juniper
#

but if u (nexon) wanna try skanks i can talk to tc since we are besties now

whole pond
#

this is literally us @idle bloom

idle bloom
#

Howdy howdy owoHYPERS

#

Since the great Lovi will be departing, we do have a spot

#

But you seem like a good dude who’s ready to learn so I expect we’d accept you

deft lotus
#

Why is Lovi leaving us?? Thought skanks was a blood oath

rich wave
#

Hey @idle bloom I did apply earlier that day if I’m not mistaken. I name changed a few weeks ago from Nexon to Nex

rich wave
rich wave
#

To keep you updated I left No Inactives and applied to most of the guilds that made tourney this season outside of the top 8.
As already mentioned I got rejected at belligerent and now also on syndicate.
I didn’t get any feedback of the other guilds whatsoever. I did apply today to candy shop and sinfullydeep.

The only message/feedback I got so far is from vox populi and they seem interested.
I think I’m gonna try to keep up a good wr and see what I can achieve in 2 months before cutoff

#

I forgot to mention that I wrote with teecee but It looks like that skanks has only 2 spots for next season and as far as I understand that one is already filled an the other is reserved for a new macro. So I have bad odds making it.
Nevertheless thanks @raven juniper to give me a chance

raven juniper
#

it was a long shot, skanks is very hard to get into

rich wave
#

Yeah but I’m glad for the opportunity itself Sadge

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Just need to see where I can find a new home this season

raven juniper
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always good to have high apsirations!

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and even if u dont get in, ur putting urself out there

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now those guilds know ur name and might recognize it if you do well in another guild

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and then u can apply again next season

rich wave
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Yeah for sure

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I understand them I don’t bring much to the table regarding def ld mons and my wr is to low

whole pond
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she even left skanks just for u!

marsh topaz
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ended up in apoc what a downgrade

raven juniper
whole pond
rich wave
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I was hoping that I can start this season to dream big but I guess I’m not rdy yet. I did get swgt and setup the tracking plugin so I can have evidence and exact stats against good guilds to maybe have a better application next time

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Never the less I’m really glad for your help

deft lotus
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Your account is probably further along than mine was last season when I joined skanks, so it’s just a matter of finding the right spot at the right time. Don’t think for a second that you or your account isn’t ready for a lower tourney guild

rich wave
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Thanks for the kind words @deft lotus

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I did get offered a trial at 2 guilds. One is vox populi and the other is pink void

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I am not sure which guild I should prefer both have pretty much the same goals and the same requirements that they give to their members

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The one in Vox would be in 2 weeks from now and the one in pink void would be instant if I understood it correctly

marsh topaz
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PV aren’t bad. There are some strong players in there you might be able to learn from

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Idk what it’s actually like in there but if they are offering now that’s probably your best option

rich grotto
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as a non bias source u choose correct