#Kyle Vs. Tesh GBAH

186 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

azure meteor
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I have both Kyle and Teshar fully skilled up. Which speed team for gbah from ?kylegbah (?teshgbah) should I build?

scarlet fractal
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tesh is faster

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and easier to rune

proper dune
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And easier to rune

scarlet fractal
azure meteor
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Okay, thanks!

proper dune
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Before siege runes were separate there was some value in the Julie just using a siege build

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But now that’s less useful

tardy ridge
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its still useful because wgb exists and isn't on siege runes

proper dune
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True, just less useful

azure meteor
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For artifacts, does teshar's passive benefit from s3 cd? if so, am I correct to assume thats the preferred stat for teshar arti?

tardy ridge
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yes

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passives are still always associated to a specific skill, so artis work for passives just the same

azure meteor
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okay, thank you

azure meteor
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What should the procedure of each run look like? Here's how it looks for me:
Wave 1: Prilea def break golem > Teshar kills def break golem with s1 or s2 + tempest > Teon resurges Teshar > Teshar tempests and clears rest of wave
Wave 2: Prilea def break mid boss > Teshar s2 > tempest > teon resurges teshar > Teshar s1 > whomie s3 kills midboss
Wave 3: Prilea def break golem > Teshar kills def break golem with s2 but no tempest > Teon resurges teshar > teshar s1 + tempest > whomie kills second golem with s1 or s2 > prilea kills one crystal > teon kills other crystal
Wave 4: Prilea def break boss > teshar s2 + tempest > teon resurges teshar > teshar s1 > Whomie s3 > kona resurges whomie > whomie kills giant with s2

This avg. across 120 runs so far is 35sec.

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I also just realized I did not infact have teshar fully skilled up, that could be an issue

tardy ridge
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as long as you dont lose its fine

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the team does work as you can see even without teshar being skilled

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but you can probably also see that if you did skill teshar, then on wave 3 teshar would have tempest for first hit and speed things up

azure meteor
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I am 2/5 on tempest skillup

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so im missing 20% dmg and the cdr for tempest

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and im 4/5 on lightning nova which means im missing -1 cooldown which could help too

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Overall I believe I have the rune quality for this team, as I have not failed. But those skillups are definitely going to make runs much smoother. Not to mention, there are times where prilea doesnt def break giant (35% acc), thus everybody dies besides whomie and he ends up finishing giant off in magic power explosion mode. This slows down the individual runtime to 45-50sec.

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For normal runs (not to be confused with the 30 run after screen), I avg. 30-32sec each run

marble imp
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Tesh without skillups is harder

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It’s not easy at all, it’s HARD to rune

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U have to 2 shot the mid wave boss with no damage from skillups

azure meteor
azure meteor
marble imp
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easy with skillups hard without

marble imp
dusk iron
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teshar should only ever be hitting things twice, once surge 2nd hit

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wave 1: prilea > teshar > teon > teshar
wave 2: prilea > teshar > teon > teshar > whomie
wave 3: prilea > teshar > teon > teshar
wave 4: prilea > teshar > teon > teshar > whomie > kona > whomie

biggest things is make sure teshar put midboss/boss down low enough to make sure whomie uses s3

if he doesnt it scuffs anywhere from wave 2 golems cutting to whomie using s1 instead, which slows the run down but still should be able to clear

same can be said if prilea misses def break, you should still be able to recover, teshar having more dmg then needed can still clear waves himself

azure meteor
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Still consistiently clearing (2 fails within 200 tries = 99%) but times can vary depending on scuff

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its the lack of cdr I think, from not having skillups, thats causing the scuffed runs

dusk iron
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i mean manual pilot the run

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should be pretty obvious then, if it is or isnt

azure meteor
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yup, thats literally it

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I pass the damage checks besides that

dusk iron
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what is teshar's cooldown when he goes to att the first time on wave 3

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for his s3

azure meteor
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1 turn

dusk iron
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there u go

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personally run so much giants, that i dont find it wasteful to skill him up

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at least till s3 maxed

azure meteor
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yeah thats what I was thinking

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Is it a waste to fuse sigmarus for skillups?

dusk iron
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if you dont already have the 4* evo fodder, very wasteful

azure meteor
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ok

dusk iron
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fusion fodder*

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at least i do believe

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@tardy ridge was it as wasteful to fuse 5 stars if you already had the 4stars for it?

tardy ridge
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if you have the 4 stars you can do it, but i wouldn't bother if you're still working on pve

marble imp
tardy ridge
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it's still a lot of resources to farm essences to awaken the 4 stars

dusk iron
azure meteor
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Nothing that shouldnt happen, happens up until that point

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or wait

azure meteor
marble imp
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he has to kill all of the golems? Did not know that

dusk iron
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well ya how else is teshars passive suppose to be up for wave 3

marble imp
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I thought he only needs to kill one target to have it available

dusk iron
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i forgot if it does/doesnt, been so long since ive watched a run

marble imp
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the wording suggests only one enemy is required

dusk iron
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so the only things that he could kill, would be golems

marble imp
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my point is that the third wave won't be an issue if you are able to two shot the boss with Teshar in second wave

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the turn order Ace gave is for fully skilled Teshar only, which gets the lenienecy to have whomie finish it off

azure meteor
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ooh

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OOOHH

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ok ok

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I understand completely now 😄

marble imp
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yeah so I'm saying every issue with this dungeon comes from that second wave

marble imp
azure meteor
marble imp
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so to avoid tangent you can either

  1. improve teshar
  2. fully skill him and follow Ace's turn order
azure meteor
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but I do not have the 4 stars

dusk iron
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ya, u aint killing golems on wave 2

image.png
azure meteor
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ok

dusk iron
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and thats 20% hp left on mid boss after teshar moves

marble imp
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yeah it is HARD to do

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most people will have to skill him up

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I would say don't bother with trying to improve your Teshar to that degree

azure meteor
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ill just go with the skillup option you gave

marble imp
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yea devil is the way

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good luck homie

azure meteor
azure meteor
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For whomie artifact, would I go s2 cd or s3 cd artifact? s3 might be the more obvious option, but s2 cd might be a point of contention because of the +100% damage from stun immunity to midboss and boss.

dusk iron
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play around with it, see which gives "numbers go up"

azure meteor
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okay

dusk iron
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but he will most likely be hitting midboss and boss with s3 > s2

azure meteor
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good to know

proper dune
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He’s a very solid candidate for those high rolled cd% as enemy hp is less artifacts that are generally hard to use, since you want cd on both skills and he’s only ever hitting after teshar does its thing

azure meteor
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I have a question, but im gonna do the teshgbah command here for reference

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?teshgbah

leaden needleBOT
azure meteor
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Now, if I want to add damage to Teshar and Whomie while keeping the team/resurge properly tuned, how does that work? For example, it says +47 for teshar, who goes after prilea. Does it have to be exactly +47?

dusk iron
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?ticks

leaden needleBOT
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Speed - Ticks to reach 100% ATB

Combat speed 477 = 3 Ticks
Combat speed 358 = 4 Ticks
Combat speed 286 = 5 Ticks
Combat speed 239 = 6 Ticks
Combat speed 205 = 7 Ticks
Combat speed 179 = 8 Ticks

Ticks are calculated in a different way for R5 and RTA.

dusk iron
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has to be within that "tick" bracket

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so anything between 205-238 all take 7 ticks to fill its attack bar

azure meteor
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I see. So for example, my teshar could potentially be 179-204 cmb speed and be fine?

dusk iron
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yes

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think of ticks how fast yr going, if they're in the same tick they going the same speed and cant overtake each other

azure meteor
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ooh

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okay, thank you! I was confused because ?turnorder contradicted that, from my interpretation

dusk iron
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?turnorder

leaden needleBOT
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If you're having trouble with your team's turn order and your teon/kona are not resurging the correct units, it's because you did not follow the speed requirements for every monster on your team. All 5 monsters on your team need to be at specific speeds. It's not enough to just have 1 monster faster than another and turn orders to be correct. Even the speeds of the monsters that are not directly involved with the resurger or monster being resurged will make a difference. Check your guide for what speed each monster of your team need to be runed at and follow those instructions exactly as given.

The reason for this is a bit complex and has to do with the way attack bar is calculated in this game. If you are curious to the mechanics, there's a section in #1048719420870107227 that discusses it.

azure meteor
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especially since it specifically mentioned the teon/kona resurge thing

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Check your guide for what speed each monster of your team need to be runed at and follow those instructions exactly as given.

All 5 monsters on your team need to be at specific speeds. It's not enough to just have 1 monster faster than another and turn orders to be correct.
these two quotes confused me

dusk iron
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so the 2 parts to that command

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take teams 1-5 of ?gbah, all you really need is them being 169+ cmb spd for that team to work

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thats what the 2nd part is talking about

azure meteor
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oooohhh

dusk iron
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"its not enough to just have 1 monster faster than another and turn order to be correct"

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the reason spd teams work is because not only do they apply the "everyone is faster than x spd" but also because they then also need to be runed at specific spd ticks to function and in specific orders

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and that teams in general with x amount of monsters used is going to be different then y amount of monsters used

azure meteor
dusk iron
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just know for now, spd tuning changes depending on how many monsters are used on that team

azure meteor
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okay

dusk iron
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do believe it gets gone over later in the pvp guides

azure meteor
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I'd have to reread them again. Thanks, Ace!

proper dune
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Note that the teshgbah team specifically originally had teshar on the 205 tick, but testing showed it was basically unnecessary and it’s easier to build on the 179 tick. So in this specific case you can go over tick into the next higher tick with teshar without messing up turn order or ai

azure meteor
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hey so a little update: I deviled my Teshar, and it seems like I do not have enough damage, but only for boss room

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I thought whomie would use s3 > s2 or s2 > s3, but that is not the case

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idk if whomie needs to be skilled as well, as when im in boss room during a pilot run, his turn cooldown is 1 turn

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What Should be the boss order, with exact skills? What happens is: Prilea s2 or s3's > Teshar s2 > Teon resurge Teshar > Teshar s1 > Whomie s3 > Kona resurge Whomie > Whomie s1 and boss doesn't die

limpid birch
azure meteor
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oh, so its a damage issue?

limpid birch
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if boss is still alive, means your whomie or/and teshar does not have enough damage

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how did your mid boss play out?

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i assume thats the final boss at wave 4

azure meteor
azure meteor
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that, according to what I was told, is the correct order of mid boss

limpid birch
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before whomie kills mid boss, how much health does the boss have?

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if its too high, means its a teshar issue

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if its low enough, its a whomie issue

azure meteor
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let me do a pilot run rq

limpid birch
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before whomie attacks, the boss should have at most 30% hp

azure meteor
limpid birch
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yes its a whomie issue

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your teshar has enough damage

azure meteor
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okay. Do I rune him like a normal damage dealer (a shit ton of atk/cd) or do I prioritize cd since all his skills skill with enemy max hp

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him being whomie

limpid birch
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whomie needs both atk and cd

azure meteor
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ok ok

limpid birch
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can prioritise cd over attack but u cannot neglect atk

azure meteor
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ok

azure meteor
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these are my runes for whomie and teshar. Is it a runes issue, or should I send my artifacts to see if its an artifact issue?

image.png image.png
limpid birch
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both artifacts and runes are important

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and your whomie doesnt even have enough CR

azure meteor
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OH WAIT

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lemme regem cr rq

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it did before lol

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52% cr right? +15 from water and +33 from LS

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ok there we go

azure meteor
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im gonna show my artis on both tesh and whomie

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Teshar's artifacts

image.png image.png
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Whomie's Artifacts

image.png image.png
azure meteor
# limpid birch this is the order

Wait, are we sure that whomie doesnt need skillups, atleast for s3? It doesn't make sense that whomie s2 > s1, it should be s2 > s3 right? In the beginning of boss room, he has his s2 up and then 2 more turns until his s3 is up. If he s2's on his first turn in boss room, and Kona resurges him, he then has one more turn until s3 is up. If his s3 was maxed, he would have s3 up and be able to kill boss every time

image.png
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my whomie isnt skilled up at all, btw

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this is how much health the boss has left after whomie uses s2 on the boss. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to have that s3 up, by virtue of it being maxed, to kill the boss?

image.png
potent zodiac
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Do you have a Luna by any chance?

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Can't check right now but i think you are correct about the whomie S3 being on cd

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If you have 1 more decent dd set you can just replace kona with Luna

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Prilea > Teshar > Teon > Luna > Whomie for turn order

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Mid boss dies from Luna
Wave4 boss takes 2 hits from tesh, Luna has to bring him below 30% (she will always use S3) and whomie will use a skill that's not S1 if the boss drops below 30

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Requires 1 more set of runes but it'll save you devilmons and its a slightly better team

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If you have good +dmg on water / CD artis the requirements are really easy to reach

bitter laurel
azure meteor
azure meteor