Fam's help thread

[marble lance]

that being said, there are always alternatives to using swift just like siege def

[slim hatch]

you mean triton on desp/vio?

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

is your offense booster runed on 2nd fastest swift?

[marble lance]

i have a few boosters runed on swift yes

[slim hatch]

I mean the main one you're using on main AO

[marble lance]

i think ive kinda split up my 2nd fastest

[slim hatch]

don't really get what split up mean, maybe you mean your 2 main boosters are on 2 "top 2.5 fastest"

[marble lance]

meaning if my 2nd fastest swift set was +200 and my 3rd fastest swift set was +196, i might make two +198 sets instead

[slim hatch]

yes that what I mean, thanks

can you talk a bit abt that mihyang chimera cleave?

[marble lance]

what are you hitting with it

it's just a normal double snipe comp

chimeras have guaranteed crit thats why they would be used

but its still double snipe, depending on what you're hitting you dont have to use chimera

or mihyang

[slim hatch]

revivers like odin, sav, nana I presume

at least that what I think after seeing you talk abt it

chimera have other strong skill to use after his s2 nuke

that's why they are good at 3v2 things

at least that's what I think

[marble lance]

give an exact def

[slim hatch]

tesa riley odin

we nuke odin twice then just 3v2

mihyang and taor should eat tesa alive

[marble lance]

it'll work most of the time but there are better options vs this def

you're kind of missing the point of mihyang draco, this has high speed and can race a lot of stuff

it shouldn't be something you think of when you see a slow no spd lead no spd threat def

tesa riley has 2v3 potential against you

[slim hatch]

I can think of Clara Orion Sav

Should be a better example here

[slim hatch]

I'm a bit curious, why do we play draco here

isn't adriana/kahli better buffer?

[marble lance]

so this was what i was saying when i said its just double snipe and you don't have to use chimera

its common to use other dds here not chimera, including not speed scaling ones. for example bethony or taru

draco has atb boost

[slim hatch]

just mihyang draco +1, even just kahli?

[marble lance]

also with draco this format becomes spammable

people dont usually have many adrianas

[marble lance]

mihyang is pretty much just a better ninja in the ninja booster comp from beginner pvp

[slim hatch]

oh yeah that make sensse

it's similar to mihyang eshir +1 team you taught me b4

[marble lance]

yea something like this makes more sense

[slim hatch]

so what's the advantage of chimera here

is it because they have useful s3?

[marble lance]

you can feel good about using a nat 5 that you have instead of f2p units

jk

yea the 3v2 isn't always free

chimera have better base stats including better tankiness

and relevant other skills

[slim hatch]

yeah that make sense

I've been rereading Beginner pvp (again)

now it's the tianaless galleon team that catch my eye

u say it's not recommended anymore while still keep the team up

I'm a bit curious to know why

from what I can see, Tiana Delphoi +2 can be used in defense with weak stripper like Amduat

similar to how Leo Christ AO work, I think as long as you can survive first turn and have Delphoi not CC'ed, you win

[marble lance]

not feasible without leo

[slim hatch]

is it because the stat advantage that leo give?

I don't think it's his ability to pushback swift stripper tho, it can be resisted

[slim hatch]

I've seen ppl having problems with rune storage cleanups sometimes

what number over 1200 of runes is safe to keep? like 1000?

[marble lance]

Not sure what you mean

[slim hatch]

I mean rune storage quantity

will there be a comfortable numbers of runes to keep in storage?

[marble lance]

The game limits you to 1200 just use that?

[slim hatch]

I just pulled a psama

with him added into my arsenal, I decided to have a real shot in arena a bit

@marble lance this is the def I'm planning with him

I just pulled psama so I haven't dare to use devil on him yet

the other 3 are fully skilled up

and according to ?ad, byung serve the stripper role here, however I do have an amduat but he is just 4/6 s2, not maxed yet

as for my offense, jasmine is a great addition to my leah ao roster

so it's gemini adriana jasmine leah now, and it's my main ao

I switch to haegang nora baretta sath on the def that can't be leahed

and in the mean time, it's not harmful to keep psama kabilla teon lushen up for easy def hunt

so is my def anywhere fine

since swarfarm is down now, I can upload my box ingame if you need it

[merry star]

What rank are you targeting, and where are you finishing now?

For stripper role on ad ideally you want a mon that strips all buffs, so neither byung nor amduat really does the job. It’s part of why Nora/triton/juno are strong in the role. Do you have any full strips?

What would you use to hit your def?

[slim hatch]

I'm aiming for p1 at least

[slim hatch]

well yes I happen to have a triton

should he get my absolute best swift set?

[merry star]

Where are you finishing now?

[slim hatch]

This might be my first time trying to really compete in arena

I have c2 finish last time but I didn't pat full effort in

[merry star]

You can rune triton on fastest swift if you aren’t using it on offense. Or give him a fast high efficiency despair/vio set. His base plus psama lead will deter most AOs from racing you

[slim hatch]

Mainly because Lushen was my only option back then

Nice, I'll put a fast desp on him them

He work unskilled?

[merry star]

If you just want to scare people off. If you want to pick up wins skillups help

Jx suggested I go Vanessa triton byung secondary stripper (Juno to counter haegang dots if possible, otherwise Nora/amduat) after I pulled Vanessa a week ago

Manon is annoying and is making a comeback in the meta a little but still isn’t great. Perna just doesn’t add a whole lot here, especially next to psama. People who will hit you will probably bring a reset or anti-revive to deal with psama anyway

But even this ad should be fine to get you in punisher. You just need to get fast consistent wins on offense during rush

See where that leaves you and if you’re getting nuked on def you can make improvements

[slim hatch]

Will do, thanks

I have my own Haegang dot as well

But without Rica it's kind of weak

So Haegang Baretta Nora Sath is what I'm using right now

Additionally, I have a leo and dominic

Lots of ppl run Leo Domi Riley +1 in rush hours, it's a bit slow but it works for g2-

[merry star]

That’s an isa offense. You don’t want to be sitting there waiting for dom to kill things during rush

Haegang is already slow clear speeds relatively speaking

[slim hatch]

Well the +1 is another bruiser, which is either Domi or Tesa

But yeah for now I'll stick to Haegang and Leah offense

[slim hatch]

For the defense, Idk why do I need a second stripper tbh, can you elaborate?

I see Juno here as a strategic counter to dot ao and a good aoe ccer that potentially disable the entire enemies offense

So I'm thinking, either I run Psama Triton Byungchul Nora as you suggested, or Psama Triton Byungchul Triana, who is better than Perna here maybe

This countered all AO mentioned in ?ao, maybe except Lushen but ppl hardly use Lushen these day so I'm confidet

[merry star]

Leo Christina wants to sit behind immunity and 100 res to let your def do its stuff turn one before the offense all moves. Second stripper makes that riskier, especially if you expect triton to be built as fast as possible but maybe not max acc. Similar idea for other turn 2 immunity teams

[slim hatch]

I finished near c2 this time lmao

def was psama triton nora byung

it's tallying so I can't see how often I got hit, but I think it's not as good as I expect it to be

[merry star]

What is near c2? High c1 or low c3? Keep in mind it was isa qualification week so may have been a bit more active than usual. How did your offenses go?

[slim hatch]

top 3k1

lol

[slim hatch]

it's just the average random lost when my leah fail to kill the enemies

and it's mainly because gemini got resisted

I have 2 aoe def breaker in my team, if gemini strip all the threats then it's almost certain I'll land the def break and just cleave them

but when the strip got resisted, that's no def break and there's a high chance I'll lose

especially since most vanessa, abellio runed on will

[merry star]

It’s Gemini Adriana jasmine leah?

[slim hatch]

yes

my dot ao is also kind of underwhelming

but that mainly because I don't have the rune for it

[merry star]

Adriana jasmine is good cleanup/support for anything that doesn’t die to Leah

[slim hatch]

that's only when I get the strip

and you know vanessa that bitch

she just revive the team

[merry star]

I still win like 7-8 out of 10 when I don’t land strips

What defs are you hitting that give trouble if you miss strips?

[slim hatch]

I guess it's more likely because I have only one fast cleave to rely on and I end up using it in def that it can't kill

[slim hatch]

anything with vanessa is a bit risky for me

I still don't have the good habit of noting out my lost, c1 have meme defs everywher

but vanessa+abellio is that fuck off comp

[merry star]

How long have you been using Leah ao?

[slim hatch]

ever since I get her and even use carmella

so not that long, likely 3 weeks of rushing

[merry star]

6 months? 6 weeks?

Sounds like combo of rune quality, target selection, and maybe piloting. Plus baseline rng

[slim hatch]

she's the only fast cleave I have for now and I do most of my wings, also refill when I fill itchy

[merry star]

Make note of defs that give trouble, and show builds

Better to refresh and get a safer hit than int into something you can’t beat just to hit something

[slim hatch]

my leah is rather weak but it hits 27-30k per slash

I don't really find it hard to kill most cleavable enemies

vanessa+camilla is a different thing i guess

here's my dot ao

[surreal iron]

why is your nora so squishy

where is her hp

[merry star]

Where is Jasmine’s acc? Her s2 does really good damage if it lands the atb pushback so you don’t want to rely on s3 acc arti

Skillups on Gemini Leah will help too. If Gemini s2 does more damage it can break shield before it strips so you’re more likely to strip will

And your whole dot team is missing acc. This looks like build issues more than anything

[merry star]

Camilla and maybe Juno with speed buff are like the only things that should live Leah if you land def break

[slim hatch]

I don't fight juno def

just her spd buff make me scare enough

and anything that isn't def broken will survive

[surreal iron]

adriana helps with juno a lot

[merry star]

It’s fine if things survive when you have Adriana Jasmine cleanup

[slim hatch]

I updated nora to be on vio

[merry star]

Why is all your shit not max leveled? Takes like 10 minutes in scenario with xp boost and it’s free stats

[slim hatch]

I'll do it

[surreal iron]

i think you never leveled up units after they extended the amount of xp needed for 40 lvl

[slim hatch]

yeah seems better

this is my own def btw

[hybrid crystal]

that like he just see spd not other stats

[slim hatch]

because it's literally it

I mean, I don't see her die so far (in the limited time I use dot teams ofc)

[slim hatch]

doing pretty well rn

I feel like ppl in asia forget lushen was a thing when they set the def

which is so convinient that a lot of neph triton def are food to my enhanced fat lushen ao

I could have tried runing this guy on full fight but maybe it'll be hard to tune him that way

[hard summit]

you're not scared of byung solo potential here? is it safe to Lushen a byung def just bc no reviver?

[slim hatch]

not really, 4v1 isn't something undoable with a def breaker, a reviver and a self reviver who happen to have a cc s2 in your team

@marble lance am I smart or dumb here?

[marble lance]

do what now

using standard psama fat lushen vs byung? yes very dumb

[slim hatch]

noted

but anw nepth triton is pretty popular up here so I think fat lushen has its place

not again byung haha

[slim hatch]

lost 3 this isa

which translate to 90% win rate

[slim hatch]

a nice thing about keeping lushen ao is that it dismantle a lot of neph triton/lora up here

most asian seems to forgot that lushen exist

and it's relatively cheap to keep as well, really good for a secondary cleave offense

[slim hatch]

@marble lance what should I do in these situation

should I just use baretta dot or use s2 and wait until I strip vanessa immu?

[dry totem]

Why haegang slower than dotter???

[slim hatch]

the thing is, he isn't

idk why

[dry totem]

Oh it’s zen

[silent lance]

Haegang (Water Art Master)

Wikia

3. Art of Blank Space (Passive)

When enemies or allies remove harmful effects, the Attack Bar of all allies will be increased by 20%. When enemies remove beneficial effects of allies, all harmful effects on the ally with removed beneficial effects will be removed and the Attack Bar will be increased by 20%. [Automatic Effect]

Pos. Effects

Increase ATB (20%)
Increase ATB (20%)
Cleanse

provided by SWARFARM

[slim hatch]

seems like it tick once before haegang proc his passive

[silent lance]

Zen (Wind Shadowcaster)

Wikia

3. Frantic Chaos

Removes all beneficial effects of all enemies (boss excluded) and grants one to two random effects for 2 turns among Decrease Defense, Decrease Attack Speed and Increase Chance of Landing a Glancing Hit. Afterwards, guaranteed to exchange the Attack Bar status of them with each other at random. (Reusable in 6 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Neg. Effects

Remove Buff
Decrease DEF (2 round(s))
Decrease SPD (2 round(s))
Glancing Hit (2 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[hybrid crystal]

Can you read this?

[slim hatch]

oh

forgor that

gonna go back and practice english

yummy

[slim hatch]

is it better to rune my teon on swift/fight or fight x3

runing swift fight help me lushen amduat defs as well

[dry totem]

if possible fight x3 but need to be tuned

[slim hatch]

yeah I guess so, kabilla buff is 30 atb

time to farm srah a bit then

[marble lance]

there's no way you will get triple fight tuned

[marble lance]

if you have baretta on despair then s3, if swift then s2

[slim hatch]

yeah it's ridiculously hard

[marble lance]

you need to cc stuff, can't greed

[slim hatch]

I have him on despair, 55+20 accuracy on s3

after a lot of thinking I find out that even at 85% I miss a lot of dot, so I'd rather go with a 25% chance of stunning someone

nora is on vio tho and she's great like that

I'm doing super well this week, hoping I'll end up in p rank at least

[slim hatch]

I'll just go with swift fight then

it's not like I'm using lushen a lot

but boy any time the dude just pew pew enemies def and win it's really hype

[slim hatch]

it's nice to see that I don't get attacked often

but I read somewhere that if I aim for anything G ranked, I need to start getting wins

this psama is built for fat lushen ao, but it's not like I use that offense every time so I don't mind switching to a def oriented build if I have to

same with the nora I built for dot ao

adriana, gemini and jasmine take my 3 best swift set already so it seems better to rune this dude on a fast despair that make him move first

and that leave camilla on a shield shield will build

anything I can do to improve this, I'm considering swapping a shield shield will byungchul instead of nora

[slim hatch]

@marble lance how do I rune psama for fat lushen ao

Right now I'm having him on Despair/Blade, +127 spd (not tuned to kabilla ofc), should I consider runing him on Swift to have him tuned with Kabilla?

[surreal iron]

i am pretty sure it's been talked about a lot already

what are you hitting with that ao? usually enemy psamathe triton

what do psa do when he dies?

double nemesis will is standard for ao

despair is for ad

[slim hatch]

not really, I'm not that confident in my kabilla speed so it's usually neph triton or psama+lionel or someone slower

[slim hatch]

doesn't matter much since he'll just revive, but sometimes my lushen left someone like nyx with a bit of hp and I want psama to be able to cleanup that

and ofc give me a better chance 4v1 someone like camilla

[slim hatch]

that make sense, since he's also the only 33 lead I have so I don't have a second choice

maybe there he'll be better despair will?

[marble lance]

yea like kodenir said it's been discussed a lot. just search

[slim hatch]

so ao only he'll be nem x2 will, and for ad it's desp/will

dude is mainly ad ofc, it's not like fat lushen is very meta or anything

[slim hatch]

I realized a lot of defense run will shield so I'm runing this little dude on spd/cr/acc

which lead me to confusion

this dude somehow need so much stat, require enough speed to go before a +166 leah, 85% acc to consistently land his debuffs and if I'm doing it right he also need enough damage to hit through shield runes

and now he's squishy af and maybe not strong enough to break real shields anw

with my runes quailty I can't be too greedy, should I keep him runed like this

[marble lance]

you can try it and decide for yourself

[slim hatch]

so you mean both type is actually valid enough so it's up to me?

[slim hatch]

this is the result of gemini missing his strip on vanessa and get me fucked

but I won?

[slim hatch]

the differences was 20 minutes

next week I'll try to get my friend work on this shift to fully commit myself, knowing that 20 minutes really drop me from g1 to c3

but maybe, if I can rune my ad properly, I have a chance?

because I realize I get hit so damn lot

[surreal iron]

don't rely on what it is showing here, type in chat then click on your name, that's your correct rank

[slim hatch]

still c3

[surreal iron]

this one here doesn't update that often and if you are close to some rank it sometimes shows different one

[hybrid crystal]

Is 1561 close to p1

[slim hatch]

I ranked 1k1 so yeah, not that far

starting c3 onward I'm thinking it's the defense problem more than just "attack as fast as I can"

leah still has some losing chance and even with her clearing speed chances are I can't get up fast enough

my last panic effort just enough to get me from c2 to late c3

[marble lance]

well the spd and acc are non-negotiable. how much you want to balance dmg vs tankiness is up to you

[slim hatch]

I decided to go full damage, since if I fail to cleave vanessa it's likely a loss for me

oh I mean especially vanessa, if any dangerous aoe like byung and juno also got immu strip resisted it's super likely a lost as well

[slim hatch]

I guess it's time I start working on my defense now, even with the speed I'm cleaving I can't back my rank up

dropping from g1 to c3 in matters of minutes is a bad sign

[merry star]

It’s a sign you’re sitting higher than your ad can support. Either make your def op so it gets wins or sit lower and climb the last few minutes

[slim hatch]

just not fast enough lul

I mentioned when I win one I got beaten one

[merry star]

Rune offense better and sit in punisher ranks until last couple minutes

[slim hatch]

@marble lance if I don't have both jamire and seara, should I bother with double snipe ao?

the only relevant spd lead I have now is psama and probably shimitae

[merry star]

Do you have bethony and sonia? There’s not a lot of defs you can double snipe in high level arena rn. And the ones you can you basically need to snipe Vanessa first then Sonia something else t1. Hard to do without bethony into Vanessa

And without Jamire you’re sitting around with skills on cd

[marble lance]

stop looking for that many different offenses

you have more than enough already

[slim hatch]

I have a beth so yes

But maybe I won't bother with that

Will just stick around a decent Leah team and a decent dot team instead of making a suboptimal double snipe team

[slim hatch]

Idk why it show p2 here

But I finally finish arena rush in G1 @marble lance

Top 17x iirc

Tbh I was so hype I even aim for G2 when I reach that 10x

But I utterly lost haha

Let wait for the true result

[merry star]

That rank is not updated real time. What does it show when you type in chat?

[slim hatch]

Oh yeah

Forgor that trick

[slim hatch]

this doesn't seems right

no way I got smacked from top 1xx way to top 10k+

[hybrid crystal]

[slim hatch]

yeah that's bullshit

[merry star]

That’s after hard reset. Open your game back up and it should give you rewards from last week

[slim hatch]

that's hurt

I got attack twice and it drop me all the way to p2

in just that one minute

it's really my defense that need to work on, I can't just let it slide

[merry star]

You peaked too soon for your def/ you need faster safe offense to cram hits the last couple minutes

[slim hatch]

Faster than what now might I ask?

Oh maybe I made a mistake

When I reach 20:50, I start thinking: maybe these mf know my triton is on despair

[merry star]

If you can Leah 4 things in the last 2 minutes that will let you sit p3 ish and push at the end

[slim hatch]

So I switch my adriana swift to triton and just give up leah team

Dot all the way

20:59 I was at 17x

[merry star]

Dot too slow to keep up at the end

[slim hatch]

And the rest is history

[merry star]

You need to be able to get fast wins at crunch time

[slim hatch]

Maybe I could have finish G1 if I just keep despair/will triton

[next summit]

Ok

[granite dragon]

dont bump old threads

[next summit]

Sorry, he’s my fren

[granite dragon]

then ping him in #general-sw

[slim hatch]

Hi yall

I have been playing rta for a while now

my main core is usually haegang helena then 3 flex pick depend on the situation

rune is pretty bad fr (haven't played that much), max swift +205 only

here is my monster box. ld5 has only oberon

yeah this would better ban adriana

[marble lance]

i think you picked leo too early, and if you thought the better ban was adriana which was picked early for them, you should have drafted things to counter adriana so you wouldn't have to ban it

like if your core is haegang helena then the whole point of core is so that you can pick it early

(helena instead of leo)

[slim hatch]

got it ty

[slim hatch]

I won this but I do feel like I can pick better

for some reason when it come to banning

I thought "well if he actually ban beetle I'll be in big trouble", therefore I banned rag

[slim hatch]

got so much problem with federica

a slip window for it to tank helena and nuke back

[slim hatch]

how do you usually deal with seara and fed?

[marble lance]

i don't really play your comp so i'm not sure how you would handle them

federica i counter with cd reset

seara is a very generic unit you have to show a draft

[slim hatch]

sure, one sec

[slim hatch]

my most recent loss

vero just won't work when this mf wait a turn to boom

byung got passive ignore

my best bet is still giou and fish for that s2 to land

[slim hatch]

now that's tricky

I might need to build that sekhmet

but fr that one seems really rune heavy, being swift and require spd lead

[marble lance]

again i'm not really super familiar with haegang helena

but feels like most of the time i see those comps you just stack a lot of monsters similar to helena (aoe cc/dmg)

and the opponent can't disable all of them

and as soon as you get a chance to move with 1 of them, you basically take complete control

your drafts are way too passive and don't do anything

helena is literally the only threat

yea individually you can say that giou may be good against some of the stuff your opponent is drafting

same with leo

or that riley works well with haegang

but together as a whole your team doesn't do much

there's something fundamentally wrong going on if you're struggling in f3

[slim hatch]

yeah I can say that

usually I stack in byung as the mf also strip and aoe

[marble lance]

can you show your box in a more organized way again

[slim hatch]

then after that I just "react"

[marble lance]

like just show your nat 5s that are skilled

use swgt or something

[slim hatch]

I can just list that, wait

[marble lance]

and then the otehr thing is

are you playing helena because you really like her for some reason

because she's not that meta or good in general

[slim hatch]

I do agree she's cute

but other than that, I don't really find a comp with my limited box

I tried to mess around with leo racuni/tilasha oberon at first

[marble lance]

you should show some of your runes/builds too

[slim hatch]

eventually I move to leo racuni oberon shizuka as a whole

[marble lance]

like you can get to conq with only support monsters

[slim hatch]

haha I did get to near c2 at peak

but idk how to get pass that, there's something real bad with my mindset

[marble lance]

so if you're playing something that does even worse than using support monsters

you're doing something very wrong

[slim hatch]

alr so my skiled nat5:
fire: helena, perna, nora
water: camilla, anavel, amelia, haegang, shizuka, manon, adriana, aaliyah, bolv
wind: leo, eladriel, giou, jade, byungchul, dominic, riley

[slim hatch]

wait a bit for me to make swgt

[marble lance]

can you show some of your builds/stats

dont have to do all of them

just maybe your 2-3 best

no speed leads? kinda rip

although theres chandra and megumi in the support monsters

[marble lance]

not horrible so i think the problem is you're just picking bad units and bad teams

do you have any unskilled speed leads?

don't use byung hes not good

try drafting shizuka more, can even make it part of your core

add more damage, even something like anavel can be considered a bit of damage and it would be better than the riley you usually draft

stop picking leo so early

dont pick giou so much either, she just doesnt go well with haegang

i think you are trying to play a bit too reactive and keep trying to pick things to counter bits and pieces of the enemy draft

when you need to build up your core first

your goal is to get something to move that can control the entire enemy team

would also help if you added some speed lead and swift threat, like even eshir as f2p one is good

[slim hatch]

I do, tarnisha, psama and oliver

damn swgt feel a bit unfamiliar

[slim hatch]

could be great if you can do me a favor and work around this, but other than that gimme more moment to figure things out

[marble lance]

you have oliver and you're not using or considering him?!

i think one of the biggest mistakes people make is they force themselves into the concept of "i'm a t1 player" or "i'm a t2 player"

[slim hatch]

I do but... I use him as flex pick against skill heavy mofo

[marble lance]

if you play standard rta

there is no distinction

[slim hatch]

mainly is because I still force myself to counter everyone

[marble lance]

you should always try to have some speed threat in your draft even if you think you are mostly a t2 player

that does not mean you expect to get t1 every single game

but at least now you force your opponent to have to draft around it

that's why it's called a speed threat

[slim hatch]

oliver build

[marble lance]

if you have any interest in rta

oliver needs to be your #1 next devil target

and you need to use him

[slim hatch]

got it

[marble lance]

i mean its crazy that you haven't even mentioned him until i repeatedly asked for your speed leads

you've been here and seen the guides and nat 5 recommendations

oliver has always been the #1 rta monster in the entire game

[slim hatch]

haha yeah since you did asked for skilled up mons

but I have my json up now

uhm, which button do I pick?

[marble lance]

upload your json and then show your box via monster collection

[slim hatch]

like this?

[marble lance]

yes thank you

much better

[slim hatch]

there must be an option to make it beeger

[marble lance]

you can give that feedback to cerusa

its fine for me

so anyway

prep an oliver

then think of 2 swift units you want to put on your roster

[slim hatch]

yep, gonna push all the best shit to the mf now

[marble lance]

ethna, sekh, eshir, all good considerations

[slim hatch]

sekh and masha seems meta

[marble lance]

masha is not

the decisino should come from where your fastest runes are

[slim hatch]

ethna i think she's a bit too rune heavy

[marble lance]

for example if your fastest slot 4 is cr

consider ethna

if your fastest slot 4 is like hp or something, then dont do ethna

if your fastest slot 6 is acc, consider sekh

etc etc

[slim hatch]

alr, then it's a no

[marble lance]

eshir is a same default

[slim hatch]

defo sekh since my have that 30 spd, acc swift

[slim hatch]

so it's sekh and eshir, am I right?

[marble lance]

sounds good

note that you dont have to put your absolute fastest on one monster and 2nd fastest on the other

you can split them up

but now you have 2 swift threats you can draft

[slim hatch]

geez that's a lot of devilmon to gather now

[marble lance]

sekh is usable without devils initially

oliver is still number 1 devil target

eshir doesnt need devils

[slim hatch]

this is a bit cryptic, but sek on absolute fastest and eshir on 2nd fastest is ok?

oliver look like this

[marble lance]

yes my point was just that you can shift around the main stats to make them more appropriate but this looks fine

although your swift is just so slow

you need to farm...

[slim hatch]

wdym?

like, spd/hp/acc on sekh and spd/hp/hp on eshir is alr?

[marble lance]

i mean that if you wanted to make sekh your fastest mon but your slot 6 acc was not your fastest, its worth making her slower to use the slower acc rune

[slim hatch]

oh yeah then this is the best I got

[marble lance]

yea so its fine

[slim hatch]

alr so I got oliver (gonna farm so hard for that mf skillup), 2 spd threat which are sekhmet and eshir

[slim hatch]

does that make my core like, play around oliver and a spd threat now?

[marble lance]

if you like haegang you can still do that

its just that now when you run into situations like this

you can draft oli/sekh

and you are instantly in a much better spot than before

or also if you draft oli in that 2nd/3rd slot

maybe you can steal it away from your opponent

[slim hatch]

I don't really have an interest on any particular monster haha

[marble lance]

oh

if you just want to learn standard

i would suggest dropping the helena altogether lol

and dont force haegang

[slim hatch]

yeah just standard is enough, I'm tired of losing

[slim hatch]

got it

so now I need to find myself an entire new core around oliver

I check around some of the matchup in replay section with him

and indeed it's a popular to see oliver as first pick, then one of the spd threat like shi hou or ethna or zibala sort of

or oliver+a counter if t2

like this one pick jose to counter seara bomb stun

so...

[slim hatch]

for me it's oliver+sekh, then just react on how the other guy pick?

[slim hatch]

do I pick anavel instead of gapsoo here?

[marble lance]

pick anavel instead of leo

[slim hatch]

oh, yeah got it

how should I build anavel for this type of core?

I think it's vio/nem on 100% res or vio/will

[marble lance]

will

[slim hatch]

alr

[slim hatch]

is 100 res needed?

[marble lance]

it's a good way to build her but its never required on anything

[slim hatch]

fr anavel need a lot of stat

got it

lemme see what can I put off

have a feeling I'll use anavel a lot

[marble lance]

you have to understand acc/res and the meta behind it

anavel is very good right now

the mistake most people make

is thinking res helps you not get cc'ed

this is false

[slim hatch]

same rule on either 15 or 100, right?

[marble lance]

any cc monster will be built with high acc

res is useless against them

the purpose of res

is to help you against bruisers

every single bruiser in the game will have really strong debuffs

but bruisers are not going to be built with high acc

for example think about wind monkey

or fire monkey

stuns, def breaks

[slim hatch]

this make a lot of sense

[marble lance]

anavel is realy strong against bruisers

[slim hatch]

I always got this feeling but now it's totally clear

[marble lance]

anavel is NOT a counter to cc

yes i know people think about hte times where your full team gets stunned and anavel procs out of stun to do s2

but this is not something you depend on

anavel s3 is ridiculous amount of damage + control, slow is secret op

[slim hatch]

as for the last match, I saw he pick light mihyang then I totally start to fear he might go for spd race then nuke

like sonia or sort, hence the leo pick

[marble lance]

while i dont like to make rules

you should make it a rule for yourself at least for now

NEVER pick leo outside of last pick

force yourself to try other answers

oli sekh already challenges vanessa yh

if you get to last pick and still think leo is fine, then yo ucan pick it

[slim hatch]

I see

[slim hatch]

so with that little info, what should I pick when I don't really know what to pick?

[marble lance]

oli > sekh/anavel

like we talked about

now you still keep all your options open

depending on his 3rd and 4th pick

[slim hatch]

I usually go with gapsoo b4, yeah anavel actually seems like the jack off all trade

[marble lance]

you can continue the speed race by picking spd lead + eshir

or you can switch to t2 stuff

either path you go nothing you picked earlier was wasted

[slim hatch]

like a second spd lead?

[marble lance]

for example if you pivot to t2

your oppoennt now still has to consider banning your spd threat of oli/sekh

even though you switched to t2

[marble lance]

yes

again if you dont have a lot of spd leads ready

chandra and fire megumi are in support monsters...

fire megumi in particular

so op

[slim hatch]

yeah consider how bad my swift rune is, I usually settle to stop racing if I feel my advantage isn't obvious

[marble lance]

even with the shitty runes they give you

[marble lance]

your opponent doesn't know how fast swift you have

you have a speed threat. they have to respect it and react to it

[slim hatch]

nice way to visualize this haha

[marble lance]

and even if you're slow

and they don't respect it

if they dont pick a 2nd spd lead

you can ban their vanessa

and even with your dirt slow speed

you still outspeed their yh with your 33 lead + sekh

they're not going to have +240 yh that would outspeed you without a spd lead

[slim hatch]

ouch

[marble lance]

it is dirt slow, i just made a new account and in 2 weeks my swift is faster than yours?

[slim hatch]

but this seems fair, and even tho oliver sekh megumi eshir +1 seems like the weirdest "core" I've ever seen

[marble lance]

it's not a core

[slim hatch]

gotta be rng magic or just I don't play that much

u literally see me back here because july toa hell guide tbh

[marble lance]

it's just an option if they pick a lot of control stuff afterwards that is hard to deal with

[slim hatch]

still function as a team?

[marble lance]

for example if they then add like... seara, oke, etc

but without another spd threat

then you can ban yh and pick your own speed stuff

then you outspeed and control them

[slim hatch]

if they do, I consider switch to t2, right?

[marble lance]

in general the higher spd threats are going to be weaker in what they actually do

for example think of stuff like eshir and triton

good for racing

but the rest of their kit is kinda weak

their power is getting first turn

meanwhile things like seara oke - not super fast, but very strong in both damage and control

so if they pick these seara oke things without investing much in their draft to actually getting 1st turn, thats when i would challenge that first turn

because it would be hard to bruiser them

but if they add more of those speed threats where all their power is going into first turn and not winning the fight afterwards

then you can go full bruiser after that (gapsoo, giou, whatever)

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

you don't play that much. i've made a lot of accounts and i would have a good sense of what's normal or lucky

[slim hatch]

so in short: if they pick really high spd threat, it's unlikely to kill me in first turn since weaker kit and I can go full bruiser

but if they pick for averagish high spd threat, I can still challenge for first turn with eshir/sekh+33 lead

[marble lance]

yes

that's why within your first 2-3 picks

you do not want to commit yet

you want to draft a bit of both so that you still have time to do that reaction

[slim hatch]

I see

anavel look like this now

[marble lance]

looks good

[slim hatch]

ty

[slim hatch]

as for dps

what are some option you recommend?

after dropping byung and helena, I don't have anyone really popular in my deck

best is probably misty and suiki, maybe dominic as well

[slim hatch]

tesa, leo, trevor is there but not as the real reliable damage source

I can maybe consider camilla?

[marble lance]

you can still keep helena around i guess

cami is fine

next up for devils after oliver can be ashour

tesa is fine

[slim hatch]

just as a generic fire bruiser?

[marble lance]

make a double nem/will oberon

[slim hatch]

when I pick helena I really should try to pick haegang, right?

[marble lance]

not necessarily

[slim hatch]

I see

[slim hatch]

oberon look like this

[marble lance]

need double nem

[slim hatch]

sacrifice spd is ok?

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

this dude was my first core, well he's ld5

leo tilasha oberon

I eventually pick shizuka in event because she's said to serve the core nicely, also just really good for rta in general

but eventually I drop, tilasha can't really race with anyone, not when my only speed lead was psama

moved to racuni afterward

[marble lance]

oberon is fine as a stand-alone unit

[slim hatch]

I even built this dude to make 2 sniping choice haha

[marble lance]

leo tilasha is hard to use

shizuka is still good to keep

[slim hatch]

like just a general dps?

make sense, the dude s2 saved my ass a lot

[marble lance]

yes

[slim hatch]

so next target is ashour, right?

[slim hatch]

so now my fire bruiser/dps include ashour, trevor, tesa, sometimes I also pick carlos+triana against snipe heavy comp and secure some win. since you allow me to keep helena she can stay too (nah I changed my mind, can't really spare rune for that)

[slim hatch]

finally!

[slim hatch]

first win

I actually choose between leo and anavel again

and go for anavel because she's water

but now I think camilla might be a safer choice

since you did taught me that it's not reliable to expect anavel might be fine after a chiwu into eludia

[slim hatch]

I got all the cc alright but I just can't kill them

[marble lance]

i wouldn't have drafted eshir there

he wasn't racing with anything

[slim hatch]

Should I pick a "lesser spd threat" in case they ban sekhmet, or just go straight full bruiser with a counterpick like suiki?

Suiki because elemental advantage

Or actually Camilla is better here, no immunity from the fella so I can keep that jeogun in check

[marble lance]

yea cami is good

[slim hatch]

Should I even bother with helena anymore? Like I just can't figure out a real situation to use her over ashour

[marble lance]

helena is one of those last picks that can 1v4 the enemy if they have nothing to deal with it

like little to no water, no strip/cc, etc

[slim hatch]

Ah I see

[marble lance]

if she's holding runes you want for other monsters then yea you can get rid of her

[slim hatch]

Yeah can agree a lot of time she get 99 turns in a row then just solo

[slim hatch]

Got it

[slim hatch]

I have a trevor on slow heavy bruiser 100% res as well, and I pick him a lot whenver I feel like they don't have nuke or cc

He get a turn to s1 then wait

Wait a sec I'll show you the build once I got home

[slim hatch]

full stat

and you haven't told me about masha

is there a particular reason for that?

[slim hatch]

correct pick?

[marble lance]

i dont really like the haegang pick there but otherwise its a bit better

that now you're at least drafting better pieces overall

if you like masha you can use her, shes just not super meta

[slim hatch]

what should I pick instead of haegang?

like a water bruiser?

[marble lance]

yea you can even pick cami there

[slim hatch]

got it

[marble lance]

haegang just isnt great into sekhmet

[slim hatch]

the recent loss

to my suprise I actually still outspd wedjat

so I quickly aim to lock down him, work alr

then mo long does his s3 on dominic...

that's how I lost

[marble lance]

i dont really like dominic, hes too one dimensional

but you lost because you picked stuff to counter shahat

and then you ended up banning him anyway

you should have banned mo or abellio

[slim hatch]

oh yeah wtf did I think

[marble lance]

dont worry thats actually a super common mistake

[slim hatch]

your suggestion on a wind bruiser?

[marble lance]

that people do even at high levels

(be super scared of some unit, draft multiple counters to it, and then still ban it)

[slim hatch]

should I consider sagar?

since I do have him and good f2p wind bruiser doesn't exist

I would actually pick leo on slot 3 if you didn't taught me to always save him as last pick, since leo is pretty much my first thought whenever I think about wind damage

or actually, giou+a non fire dps like camilla or misty also seems kinda legit

[marble lance]

yea no leo would have been bad

you dont have to necessarily pick a wind unit

i think gapsoo would have been decent there

[slim hatch]

yeah, wind "damage" support into a bruiser

[marble lance]

if you wanot another f2p wind option you can try robo

[slim hatch]

oh yeah, that dude

meet him sometimes and he punch real bad

[slim hatch]

lost this one but ban pick is alr?

nah actually I was even lucky he banned oberon

vanessa+akroma guarding each other back 2 back

[slim hatch]

this one I don't really see a particular mistake?

[slim hatch]

nuked the minato and that druid took a turn...

[slim hatch]

recent losss

I lost the speed race

now come to think of it banning seara would secure me to win that race and be in a much better spot

[marble lance]

you should show some replays or something

maybe you're just misplaying everything

[marble lance]

like i dont know how you lost this

who did you reset with sekhmet?

[slim hatch]

woosa

[marble lance]

you should have reset the bellenus

[slim hatch]

yeah it was him who kill everyone

I also got into a bunch of lost today haha, drop all the way to f1 before slowly climbing back

[marble lance]

you have 2 strippers to deal with woosa... and a reset that can give you your strips back

you let bellenus move and you lose everything

[slim hatch]

Ic

my robo look like this rn

I've also decided to keep helena because ever since I changed her into flex fire bruiser pick

she got 100% wr

enemy got no cleanse/immu or annoying mechanic that threaten helena just lose to her

this is also a noticable lost

yeah I remember this

like, now I realize I don't just need to counter with bruiser

maybe immunity like riley would be better here?

that would prevent getting 1v4 by light leo

[marble lance]

leo still bad pick there

leo counters your own team just as much

actually it counters your own team more

[slim hatch]

oh yeah, since robo scale with spd

[marble lance]

??

robos do not scale with speed

[slim hatch]

so how did he counter my own team

[marble lance]

how does it counter the enemy?

nothing scales with speed on the entire board

[slim hatch]

because he pick 2 of my spd lead, I decide to win this race by forcing a leo in and hit the ethna

[marble lance]

ok thats a big misunderstanding

leo does not combat speed lead or give you first turn

sometimes it can if you pushback the enemy's fastest booster

but that's not reliable

what if it's on will?

[slim hatch]

yeah that's usually my go to option against racer sadly

other than that I don't really know what to do

[marble lance]

i gave you ways to combat racer

but in this case

the only thing that races is ethna

and you already drafted 2 spd contest units

[slim hatch]

straight up ban it?

[marble lance]

you don't need to ban it...

you already drafted counters

also btw at this level

you already should know these are just support units

that ethna is like +145 spd or something

[slim hatch]

haha idk about that, I just, well, respect the threat just like you said...

[marble lance]

100% guaranteed he picked 4 support units + his LD toy

[slim hatch]

yeah that can be said, but again I'm not gonna rely on this tactic haha

so, what should be my answer on actual spd threat+2 spd lead

[marble lance]

my point is that you're not losing due to rune quality

you picked stuff to contest ethna

on speed

so even if he has same rune quality as you

you still win

what are you scared of

[slim hatch]

he might ban oliver

[marble lance]

then pick another speed lead or ban one of his speed leads

btw megumi chandra is not a racing comp at all

sekh eshir was an overreaction

dont pick both of your swift units

pick 1 swift unit, then 1 bruiser

[slim hatch]

yeah that one just pick random bs, I just thought there's a chance he really want to race then take both spd leads

[slim hatch]

and that way I got down to eshir+sekh racing again ethna+at least 24 spd lead?

[marble lance]

you can also pick other things that do well into ethna

ethna getting 1st turn doesnt automatically kill you

[slim hatch]

giou seems like a nice choice

[marble lance]

i think you're making a lot of errors playing these out

i would almost suggest just spamming only support units

and then slowly adding in more of your own

showing some replays

you are outplaying yourself

[slim hatch]

sure, one moment

one thing I realize from this one is just to pick suiki instead

there's nothing to cc and when I consider what suiki can do to a bunch of def broken enemy, it make the choice to pick camilla feel even worse

you also advised me to use shizuka more often but tbh, I failed to think about her whenever I pick slot 2 3

to me now she feel like a water immunity buffer

[marble lance]

ok i have to stop just like 2 moves into that

wtf

you hit fire monkey with giou

then you hit lucia with oliver and then trie dto s2 it with cami?

[slim hatch]

panic...

[marble lance]

i think yo ucan review a lot of this replays yourself and figure out you did something immediately wrong

and read enemy skills if you dont know what htey do

[slim hatch]

well get into a real battle need mental and for some reason I feel like: I definitely gonna miss s2 into shi hou since 2 buff

[marble lance]

also as far as that draft

again i dont like to make general rules

but i htink it will help if you force yourself to always draft some sort of damage unit within first 3 picks

especially if you always want to open oli sekh

you are just so low on damage

[slim hatch]

and that damage is either based on what the enemies bring (misty into stun stuffs) or elements?

[marble lance]

based on everything

just bring something that has damage

[slim hatch]

haha then misty and gapsoo is usually my go-to if I really don't know what to pick

[marble lance]

gapsoo would have been fine

this is also why i suggested just doing support units, if oliver sekh is not working out for you

just try stuff thats easier to play

[slim hatch]

otherwise it's ashour for fire damage, suiki/camilla for water damage, and for wind damage tbh it's just that wind robo

[slim hatch]

oberon into anything that isn't anti nuke is fine?

[marble lance]

what is nuke

oberon into a lot of dmg is fine because normally things cant 1 shot you, and then your nem gives him a turn

its just the cc thats dangerous

[slim hatch]

anti snipe

[marble lance]

what is anti snipe

[slim hatch]

you know, really tanky mf and nana

laika

...

[marble lance]

i mean no one is going to draft nana or laika as a core

or before you draft oberon

i dont know what really tanky mf means

if its a rnadom tanky unit who cares? you dont have to snipe that one

[slim hatch]

oh yeah

so oberon as 3rd pick is weak

[slim hatch]

my choice here is good enough?

[marble lance]

if they draft nana laika thats good for you, they're now investing heavily into 2 units just to counter your 1

[slim hatch]

make sense, then I just pick camilla to counter that laika

[marble lance]

sekh already sort of counters laika

[slim hatch]

got it

[marble lance]

again i dont know it feels like you're missing too many basics

just from watching 10 seconds of the one replay you showed me

every single move you made was wrong

[slim hatch]

here is when I realize I fear seara too much

[slim hatch]

like just not enough play or I need to reread commands?

[marble lance]

not play enough, or maybe you played too much incorrectly and got really bad habits

rta is hard i get it

i struggle too with running out of time

but that just means you need to slow down, play something easier

play other content too

[slim hatch]

well, I do play normal arena side by side

just no longer care about siege

[marble lance]

don't give yourself that many options, thats why i said maybe just stick to support units, take sa lot of variables out of the way

and you can just focus on playing 1 thing correctly

or find a more flexible core

i would say oli sekh +1 is fine (but just spam it no matter what every game and only change up the last 2)

but also it seems like oli sekh maybe is a bit hard to play

[slim hatch]

I see

but it's not like I have other options

[marble lance]

sorry i dont know how to best help you

i am trying to think

but its hard

like i think you're struggling with too many engrained bad habits

[slim hatch]

last choice was still helena haegang, and yeah that feel easier to play

[marble lance]

you have too much experience

but all of it was bad experience

so you do a lot of bad things out of habit and you can't break them

[slim hatch]

overfitting knowledge

[marble lance]

you are too scared of things you shouldn't be scared of

and you hard overreact to every little thing

[slim hatch]

man really summed up my personality from how I play a game

correct

[marble lance]

try the whole support thing only

it will force you to play differently

and see how things work

[slim hatch]

Alr lemme see

So now ?buildmeateam

I'll try to work around megumi+ethna+1

Idk why amduat is there tho

That one feel like a weak cc that just have so much turn

[slim hatch]

Nah this is the 4th consecutive lost

That one I just got nuked into 2v4

And here, there's nothing to race yet ethna s3 into han just fail

Didn't got han down to half hp and that just feed atb for him

[merry star]

You don’t have to ban 5th

Rag or Han ban seems better in that last one

Nessa ban in the one before let’s you race

Maybe it still loses because support units but draft wise it’s a more sensible play

Can’t be giving them 33 adri Sonia Han and expect to live

[marble lance]

yes the point is to focus on fixing your in match play errors

watch replays

see if you did the right move

im sure you even recognized yourself you can get to conq with just support units

i mean just did this myself

[slim hatch]

ofc I lost this race

[marble lance]

dont pick support ethna

[slim hatch]

so eshir all the way?

[marble lance]

theres no support eshir

[slim hatch]

my eshir

[marble lance]

sure if you want

[slim hatch]

otherwise there's no spd threat

[marble lance]

i would have done chandra megumi giou wind paul

douglas

maybe not doug since you didn't have last pick

cami probably

[slim hatch]

so no more spd threat if you understand you can't race?

rta is damn hard and tbh I get all the reason why ?buildmeateam ppl as questions

[marble lance]

focus on learning what units do and how to play the battles

show replays

do you understand basic mechancis with element advantage and disadvantage?

if not go read up on it

the summoners war wikia actually still has accurate information about that

[slim hatch]

advantage=+15 crit rate
disadvantage=-15 crit rate and 50% chance your attack is weak one that won't land any debuff

[marble lance]

the won't land any debuff one is a bit tricky

for example what about effects that aren't debuffs like cd reset?

what about strip?

but yea you should show more replays

[slim hatch]

except atb reduction, these iconless debuff won't affected by glancing hit

same with despair and destroy

[slim hatch]

what about the spd threat rules you made?

[slim hatch]

like this?

[marble lance]

yea but support monstesr dont give you any

what can you do

[slim hatch]

pick an actual spd threat

which is why I asked for eshir and sekh

[marble lance]

you can if you want

i was just giving you advice from as if you had nothing

[slim hatch]

is douglas a reliable at third pick?

[marble lance]

because right now i just want to focus on how you play

because its really bad

you hugged ethna and then s1'd the monkey

why s1

why not s3

s3 is extremely strong and even moreso given this is a despair chandra

[slim hatch]

wanna save it after a ethna s2

[marble lance]

yea ok makes no sense

its not a high damage skill

should have s3'ed and not even s2

at this point no particular monster was in danger

and then you can use s2 to cycle s3 again

so you should have just straight up did s3

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

why did you go after oliver with giou

oliver is much less of a threat than the monkey, monkey was about to s3 and plus you had multiple monsters moving after giou (like chandra) that would give you a chance to cc oliver

[slim hatch]

there was so much option to pick tbh

[marble lance]

but you picked a bad option

here you started going hard after tiana

this i wouldn't say is objectively that bad, it does make sense to go after the weaker monster a lot of times just to get something off the field

[slim hatch]

and well I just watch several play and see their giou destroying oliver

[marble lance]

but i definitely wouldn't

tiana blew both her important skills

she has nothing left

a lot of your team is more cc rather than damage

better to continue going after a higher threat

[slim hatch]

I see

[marble lance]

yea but you can destroy the water monkey much faster than the oliver, and the monkey is a lot more threatening as well

[slim hatch]

I got the idea

tysm

lemme try again in another match, yeah I also realize a lot of dumbass stuff I do once I rewatch

[marble lance]

a lot of this is just experience but it's a huge reason why you're losing

nothing to do with draft or runes

[slim hatch]

where exactly did I messed up here?

[marble lance]

you're still using hug earlier than you need to

just s3 without s2ing first

[slim hatch]

Hug 🤣

[marble lance]

see how none of your stuff ever gets 1 shot

you have time to hug the unit that's actually in danger of dying

and then you can use it to also cycle s3