Jayke Siege/WGB Thread

[vale jay]

You can build a second galleon on will on leftovers for this

To be fair though he is like +208 topset on imesety

Obviously what you're saying is true but it's really hard to race even positive when that's how fast you are don't you think

[fiery geode]

yea i'm aware, what specific team are we talking about

[vale jay]

We were talking about Adriana stuff

Actually what I don't understand is why you aren't using the Tiana team I suggested awhile ago @meager mauve

[fiery geode]

so is the question do you race 24 adriana against 33 zen?

[vale jay]

Adriana leah

[fiery geode]

the answer is no

[vale jay]

I would be more curious where you are looking to use this if you aren't able to use it into the standard stuff you'd normally use it into

Like 33 threat stuff

[vale jay]

I know jx is a big fan of the Cheongpung/Poseidon/fire triss, I think it's good, but my favorite is still the Deborah kaki setup

This one takes fucking nothing rune wise and it makes life simple

Try that as your one setup, even if the speed tuning will be wrong during week (as in Deborah moving before galleon)

[fiery geode]

i think the deb kaki is good too

[vale jay]

No headaches about procs or anything

[fiery geode]

i just dont have deb

so cant talk about myself using it

[vale jay]

Yeah

With Cheongpung/Poseidon/etc a lot of the time things live and you end up in a longer more annoying match

[fiery geode]

deb zaiross is cool too

[vale jay]

With kaki you can even just use into Camilla and it's comfortable

[fiery geode]

i dont know what comps you think you need spd lead for

[vale jay]

I've never tried that one personally but you can try that too for sure

[fiery geode]

but this is also why i mentioned getting tiana faster

[vale jay]

Its cool idea too because it's probably a bit better into Camilla

[fiery geode]

+180 is way too slow

[vale jay]

Normally kaki into Camilla is also quite clean as strange as it is

[fiery geode]

it's fine for when you are beginning pvp

but not 1 year later...

[meager mauve]

Honestly not a great answer other than I forgot. 😓

[fiery geode]

its because if you're running +180 tiana with no spd lead you're going to get outsped by every random bruiser

you have the runes to make this team much better

those runes are just hiding somewhere (possibly on a pve team monster you use once a month?)

or not grinded

[meager mauve]

If I'm not worried about Tiana damage I can definitely make her faster.

[fiery geode]

yea kaki or zaiross teams is not about tiana damage

you're supposed to 1 shot things

or leave things at low hp with no cooldowns to do anything at least

[meager mauve]

And Galleon and Zaiross are both above the speed requirements, so I wouldn't even need to adjust their builds to make them tuned I think.

[royal summit]

💀 nah tho

ah ok most

theres a noticable barrier in rta that is just rune diffing

especially with swift sets

g2 is doable g3 hell no

[fiery geode]

my point is that people just use it as an excuse and coping mechanism for why they can't compete or climb higher

and also they use it as a way to flex against newbs

[royal summit]

they just suck

[supple onyx]

I’m literally redline

And I’m apoc’s goat

Drop the bars on them, jx

[hardy plank]

I would add the caveat of swift gapping but yea rune gap doesn’t really exist anymore

[fiery geode]

swift difference is a bit more real

[hardy plank]

Anyways I finished reading thru

As is I think players need 3 primary arena offenses
One for fast defenses
One for slow defenses
One for defenses they can’t outspeed

@meager mauve

[fiery geode]

i dont think about it that way at all

you just need to know exactly what you can beat and what you can't

[hardy plank]

It’s more complicated than that but you can break it into groups

[fiery geode]

and be ok with skipping a lot

[hardy plank]

Of how defenses function and certain trends appear

At least that’s how I contextualize gaps

[fiery geode]

there's a lot you can learn in terms of what defs you can hit that you may not think you can hit

and what defs are more risky than appears

with midweek practice

people just don't want to do it or are afraid to lose

[hardy plank]

To me a lot of defenses can be basically approached through the angle of how does this defense generally play

Some defenses the main cinch is how do I move first - once you’ve gotten that winning is fairly straightforwards

Others contesting isn’t the issue it’s figuring out how to punch through some combination of anticleave passives

So breaking it conceptually into fast/slow/turn 2 is a decent way to understand how defenses typically will function wrt to your offenses

And then figuring out with say slow defenses how do they usually function and what can I make that hits the most slow defenses

And then working on the holes from there

Tiana falls under the slower category to me - you’re still seeking to take turn 1 but you’re not really contesting actual swift units - zen or triton or lora or w.e

So once you have tiana it’s just a matter of figuring out how you’re punching through whatever they’re doing which given the simplicity of her setup is a lot of different options

Deb kaki, truffle ld dd, resets….

[royal summit]

Yo same

[tired hollow]

I heavily support this way of thinking

Imo as long as you can hit an acceptable subset of defenses, and can identify what you can hit at the snap of a finger u should be okay

Which is often 10% of defenses on your list (once per refresh)

[meager mauve]

Going over some siege hits from this Siege. Finally lost one. RIP 50-0

First one I thought about this for a while and thought this might end up being the best chance I had since I didn't really have a good cleave idea.

Maybe I could have Julied, but I wasn't sure it was a good idea into this.

Lushen seemed okay, but I was scared of Moore and Fermion possibly surviving. On second thought through this one, I probably should have just Lushened. Mirinae makes it nearly impossible for Fermion and Audrey to live and I'm pretty sure I can 3v1 Moore.

This hit I think is actually not great, but I couldn't really think of another way to hit this. Taranys Brita is hard for me to cleave because I don't have good ideas on what to cleave it with that won't end up losing on the spot.

I did feel like this would get into a destroy battle and Savannah would win that much faster than Brita.

This final hit was my loss. It was Despair Chandra on CD and the rest of the comp was built anti-bruiser in a super yolo comp. My ShuShu revenged once on the Seren and actually ended up chunking her a little bit.

I lushened this right after because they were very slow, but I'm not quite sure who else I could have used here that would have been a better choice blind. I don't have Ethna skilled, but I was fearing she could easily be lapped by this comp since there's a speed lead and I don't have one.

The actual result was the following:
Orochi moved first, I hit Seren, assuming killing her was paramount to success since she could force a teamup. Vio proc from Orochi and I hit Seren again.

Chandra moved next, using S3 immediately. Both ChaCha and Shushu were despair stunned and unable to revenge or heal.

Elsha moved next and def broke Chacha

Seren then teamed up and everyone hit Chacha, killing her

I thought perhaps Orochi could kill Seren and I'd still be okay, since I could perhaps keep the two alive. Unfortunately I didn't kill Seren with Orochi and then Elsha focused Orochi instead of ShuShu. As soon as Orochi died I gave it up.

I am not sure if a better wind bruiser would have won this. I think I picked the exact type of comp that this defense was built for. I am not sure I could have won this without cleaving in the first place.

But unfortunately, I did not want to race any of these units, seeing as all of them could be built swift.

[calm falcon]

do you really not have a better wind bruiser than savannah in that slot?

[meager mauve]

Like who would you recommend?

[tired hollow]

Xz, Ethna, dom are common? I don’t have anything against sav tho

[meager mauve]

No dom. Ethna not skilled. Used xz on another hit.

[tired hollow]

Ye sav is fine, cuz kumar should never kill

[proud lichen]

[royal summit]

We need to add this emote here

[vale jay]

Yo guys can we chill with the irrelevant chat

[vale jay]

Or we could not use a wind bruiser because using a wind bruiser is bad here, the "Kumar should never kill" shit doesn't even make sense, Kumar is a high damage monster, and considering that there is no fire unit it's possible for Brita to retarget onto sav should she get low enough

[vale jay]

Did you already use Belial

[meager mauve]

I thought Belial could easily lose because Elsha strip + def break into mega bonk from Seren could kill Rina or Riley pretty fast.

[vale jay]

There are Belial lines

[meager mauve]

If I had camilla I think I'd be more confident in Belial

[vale jay]

Probably not with Riley since we don't want to give attack buff right

Yeah for sure

Its possible that rina gets def broken and they just truck her until she dies

If you want to Lushen this then the standard line is going to be mirinae teon/dova Lushen

Let me explain really quick why this is not a bad choice here

If it's swift elsharion, they aren't going to be a Lushen trap. That is so incredibly rare that it's not worth worrying about

If you are forcing yourself to hit this, that's how I would do it. I would just mirinae it

Don't do this advanced bruiser shit. Its too rune intensive for you and it's gonna have lower success rate than simpler options

Swift Chandra is possible but you're racing fairly positive

If you are concerned about being miri trapped, then fair enough, your Lushen isn't that strong, you can just wait and hit something else

But just shelve this advanced bruiser shit, it's not good, its too complicated and requires runes that are too high quality, much much higher quality than you have, it's pilot sensitive and more prone to losing to procs

[meager mauve]

I did lushen this afterwards once I knew none of them were swift

They were built really yolo and everything died after 2 cards

[vale jay]

I saw but I would just not do hits like this in general

I would let someone else hit before doing this

This isn't for players at your rune quality

That's something you need to learn to do, surely someone in your guild just Camillas this and you chill

Or if you want to Belial it you run a better line

[meager mauve]

Well with just 30 minutes left in Siege I don't really have the luxury of waiting around.

I do chill quite often. Heck, there's so many instances where I could attempt to hit stuff but I just don't because I want to scout later and see what happens.

[vale jay]

Do hits during additional attack period

[meager mauve]

Most of my hits come in Day 2 usually because I just don't hit stuff early.

[vale jay]

Lmao in all seriousness though

If it's at that point it shouldn't matter too much but we want to have good habits

Its better to go slow and win

[meager mauve]

It does get frustrating to have to sit back and wait all the time.

But I do. I wait constantly. I'm very rarely if ever hitting on open, and if I do, it's for a sure-fire win like a Bolverk comp or something.

[vale jay]

Pull a Sonia you fucking nerd

[tired hollow]

Maybe I’ve seen bad kumars, but I don’t see kumar killing spd cr hp sav? Or taking her low enough before riley can do something about it for brita to kill very often

[calm falcon]

@meager mauve my FAVOURITE monster should work just fine here too

ive done it before

its less good than into ashour

but it works

(wink wink)

[hardy plank]

I think ur gonna

Have ur tractor die

Before u kill smth

[meager mauve]

Stretched my swift sets pretty thin this WGB set.

2R was really scary because Byungchul resisted every freeze and pushback. Also Brita was revenge and def broke Hyanes, so she died. Everything worked out in the end as Dhomie finally defbroke him.

4R was where I used my topset. I ran +water on Julie to make sure Chandra got low enough for me to kill.

[fiery geode]

were these scouted

[meager mauve]

These were not scouted.

However, no speed leads gave me a lot more confidence to race. Especially in 1R and 3R because those are my 2nd and 3rd fastest sets. Fastest was on 4R where the only swift thread I could see was Chandra, and I'd be racing positively there too.

[fiery geode]

3r is dangerous for you if you're not using topset

miles gets a free 25 spd and can outspd you even on vio

4r is really bad use of julie

julie is a spd racing comp against squishy defs

i think we say that over and over again

you don't use it against tanky stuff

5r who did you kill first

[meager mauve]

Rakan

[fiery geode]

can you see how that's wrong

[night berry]

For second team you used how the turn order go?

[meager mauve]

Hmm..... Would killing Praha then Rakan be the play, leaving Ritesh alive be correct? Since Rakan can only strip one monster?

[meager mauve]

Theirs? I think it was Byungchul -> Ophilia -> Brita?

[night berry]

No yours

[meager mauve]

Hyanes Dhomie Verad

[night berry]

Gotcha

[vale jay]

I WILL NOT JULIE TANKY DEFENSES.

[royal summit]

Ye kill praha first

Bulldozer should be on will he claps rakan later

[meager mauve]

I mistakenly thought that since Rakan can AoE Provoke that he could also AoE strip.

[fiery geode]

did you forget praha can also aoe strip?

[meager mauve]

No, I just figured that Praha AoE Strip would be less of a problem because there's no provoke

Yes it's a problem but I thought Rakan could aoe strip and aoe provoke at the same time

But Rakan cannot aoe strip now that I read his skill more carefully.

[fiery geode]

what are you missing

imesety boosts only 1 monster

you can only kill 1 enemy before their entire team moves

[meager mauve]

I was just missing that Rakan doesn't aoe strip.

And therefore because he's a fire monster he'll target either Copper or Ime first

[fiery geode]

I just figured that Praha AoE Strip would be less of a problem

what does this mean

how is this not a huge ass problem?

that invalidates the entire comp

[meager mauve]

So in my head, I thought Rakan did the same thing, but also provoked, meaning there wasn't even a way to salvage it. So I picked the lesser of two evils. But I think what you're getting at is that I shouldn't have picked this comp into it if that was what I believed I was going into.

[fiery geode]

yes

if you thought rakan aoe stripped and aoe provoked

this was an extremely dumb offense

there is no picking of lesser evils

any evil is bad

we pick comps that can't possibly lose

[meager mauve]

I think partially it was also just looking for another cleave because of how often I've had it hammered in this thread that I need to cleave.

[fiery geode]

did you pull anything cool since

i think this is from january

and who are you picking for the 11 anni event

i feel like at this point maybe you actually need to take the opposite advice from what we normally give

like you should just make some presets and try to use those first

[meager mauve]

I picked Adriana for the 11 anni and I have not pulled a ton extra.

[fiery geode]

rather than cooking up or random teams each time

like bolv amelia windy

jeanne leo helena

[meager mauve]

I have a list of stuff I've pulled recently. Let me find it real quick....

[fiery geode]

feng aaliyah vela

xing/shahat tetra leo

psama iunu +1

[meager mauve]

This is what I pulled since then.

Oh and Jeongnam. I did pull him randomly.

The haegang, Psama and Taor are all dupes.

[fiery geode]

haegang +2

[meager mauve]

I have presets already made. Currently all the ones you listed minus Psama Iunu and Haegang I already have as presets.

[fiery geode]

are you using them every siege/wgb?

you should

[meager mauve]

I do use them every siege, not every wgb though.

Well, JLH I don't use every siege.

That's a tough one to use sometimes because lately it's been a bunch of HP leads and no speed scaling DD's so I don't have a great place for it. But the other presets I use every siege without fail.

FY/Aaliyah/Vela I use. Bolverk I use. Hyanes I use. Belial, Shahat, Tiana, etc

[fiery geode]

just try to have a balance

cleave 2, preset bruiser 3 more

if you are hitting blind you can't cleave that many anyway as you start running into issues of using worse and worse swift sets

[hardy plank]

Is that pajamaman or dark

[meager mauve]

Dark.

[fiery geode]

you picked adriana but dont have rigna or sonia right

[vale jay]

Yep no Tirsa either

[fiery geode]

what are you saving stones for

feel like you should get a camilla instead or something

[vale jay]

He summoned on Sonia rotation, there was another good unit in it but I forget

Not a bad idea

He would use it probably every siege

?choice Jayke keeps Adriana | Jayke takes a Camilla

[meager mauve]

Well i didn't summon Sonia or Belial (the other mon in that rotation) but I did attempt it.

[hardy plank]

Honestly

I’m not sure Adriana vs cami really matters

You can pretty easily spam both without the commonly used +1s

But I guess in the context of jayke not having cleave runes cami probably stretches him less

[fiery geode]

i really think with respect to jayke, he can not easily use adriana without the common +1s

[meager mauve]

I actually would agree with that. And now that I'm thinking about it, because Adri doesn't boost, I also wouldn't have great ways to make the teams anyway.

I can't build a Sonia very well, even if I had both Adri and Sonia.

My swift runes aren't great.

[onyx marlin]

how inconsistent would this team be if Jeanne wasn't maxed skilled

[sleek wigeon]

Jeanne (Light Paladin)

Wikia

3. Cry of Provocation

Provokes all enemies for 2 turns and instantly recovers a turn. (Reusable in 6 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

Pos. Effects

Additional Turn (1 round(s))

Neg. Effects

Provoke (2 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[calm falcon]

a lot less

altho helena should usually do her thing after one rotation already

[onyx marlin]

Ill fuse 6 jeannes and pray it goes well

[calm falcon]

try it out with an unskilled jeanne and see how it feels

never thought about it since the game gave a free skilled jeanne a few months ago

[onyx marlin]

I just came back and have been back for like 3 weeks 😦

So i just missed it

Would a maxed skill tetra be a decent replacement until then?

[calm falcon]

tetra is a completely different monster

also if you want to go in depth on questions, make your own thread please

[onyx marlin]

Also understandable I just used the search function and thought this was a siege thread

mb

[meager mauve]

I should start by noting

that I have commandeered @vale jay 's old account.

This WGB I went 10-0, and I only have 2 questions about the 2nd set posted above.

First is on 3R. I felt this was fine to split Cami's damage between Racuni or Tesa as I had plenty of support for them. Since there's no def break neither wind monster can hit either one (minus Byung S2). I felt this was basically free with tesa since Oblivion screws all 3 mons over. Question is, I couldn't think of a cleave for this particular defense. Is there a cleave I could have used that I missed? Or shoudl I just stick with what I have because it's basically a guaranted win?

[vale jay]

What is this f2p shit

[meager mauve]

Other is on 5R. Am I crazy in assuming that the only monster with high damage potential in this defense is Moore? I felt like there was just no risk in running this comp because they couldn't kill anything.

[vale jay]

5R is Feng victim, nothing wrong with that

[meager mauve]

why use premium mon when free mon do trick

[hardy plank]

For r3

I’d use a wind unit

Like FUUUUKI

[vale jay]

That's byungchul and Taranys correct

[hardy plank]

Yes

[vale jay]

I feel like you just rina and yeah some wind bruiser shit and it's better

[hardy plank]

This defense has 3 different anticleave passives

[vale jay]

Fuuki is good because Camilla

[hardy plank]

Don’t cleave this

[meager mauve]

oh holy crap. I didn't even think about that.

I'm over here trying to think of some premium cleave I could throw at it.

I didn't even stop to think if I even should.

[vale jay]

This is one of those defenses that tries too hard to stop you from cleaving it

[hardy plank]

Rule of thumb is

[vale jay]

And you just say OK fine

And don't cleave it

[hardy plank]

Don’t try and fight the defenses strengths

Attack the weaknesses instead

[vale jay]

*fairly

But yeah rina Fuuki Riley for example sounds great

Camilla doesn't necessary do anything better than Rina here tbh so I would just do that

[meager mauve]

Fuuki is a better option. I should remember that.

Put him on a destroy set and it's nice and easy.

[vale jay]

For 4R I like Juno Camilla windy into these by the way, it feels pretty good to me, JLH into Chandra is umm

[meager mauve]

Juno Camilla Windy?

[vale jay]

Yeah

You hit the funny bouncy totem lady until her totem is max stacks

[meager mauve]

I feel like that's really low damage.

[vale jay]

Its not

You have crate buff and 24 crate lead

So

Uh

[meager mauve]

Oh yeah Juno has a lead skill.

[vale jay]

But I mean even if it takes awhile you hit the bouncy totem lady

Like even if you don't utilize that

[meager mauve]

I never remember that. In my head she seems like she shouldn't.

[vale jay]

She just keeps you alive

[hardy plank]

If you want to be fast

You can do

MOOGWANG RINA NOBELLA

Their max hp will be gone in under a minute

[sleek wigeon]

Nobella (Wind Magic Order Elementalist)

Wikia

Base

HP: 10545 — DEF: 670
ATK: 604 — SPD: 101
CR: 15 — CD: 50
ACC: 0 — RES: 15

Info

Type: Support
Stars: 5
Devils: 12
Farmable: No

Awaken

From: Magic Order Elementalist

Lead

Increase the Accuracy of ally monsters by 35%

provided by SWARFARM

[meager mauve]

WHAT THE HECK IS A NOBELLA

I think Ent just makes up units and they materialize in the game for him.

[hardy plank]

You can also do USHA

[vale jay]

Interesting idea

[hardy plank]

But yea that defense is a free bruiser

Don’t sweat the details just use random shit that actually does damage

[meager mauve]

Yeah Scarlet said it best I think.

YOU CAN'T CLEAVE ME

Okay, then i won't.

[rotund sail]

just ian it

[vale jay]

I forgot to pull Ian before Jayke got his new account

Sorry

[meager mauve]

It's okay scarlet. We all misplay.

Except klo

[rotund sail]

I also misplay alot dont worry

[sleek wigeon]

Nobella (Wind Magic Order Elementalist)

Wikia

1. Elemental Throw

Attacks the enemy to remove 1 beneficial effect with a 20% chance and disturb its HP recovery for 2 turns with a 50% chance.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Damage +15%
Effect Rate +20%

Multiplier

3.8*{ATK}

2. Elemental Fragment

Attacks the enemy 2 times. The first attack inflicts Continuous Damage for 2 turns with an 80% chance, and the second attack prevents the enemy from removing harmful effects for 2 turns with an 80% chance. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Effect Rate +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +15%
Damage +15%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

2.9*{ATK} x2

3. Spiritual Thunder

Attacks all enemies 2 to 4 times to inflict Continuous Damage for 2 turns. Increases your Attack Bar by 10% in proportion to the number of Continuous Damage inflicted by this attack. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +20%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

1.4*{ATK} x2

provided by SWARFARM

[tired hollow]

this cannot be real

is this f2p shithat

nah im just lost

[hardy plank]

[proud lichen]

not the nobella again

[meager mauve]

Jayke Siege/WGB Thread

[meager mauve]

First set seemed to go pretty easily.

1R - Seemed like I could Julie this, despite Theomars potentially 1v3. It worked out just fine.

2R - Pretty safe Hyanes comp.

3R - This one I thought I could attempt to race, or I could just tank everything and then kill it afterwards. I figured I could lose if I cleaved, but if I tanked everything there wouldn't be much of an issue.

4R - Funneled into Chacha after killing Kumar. Pretty easy hit.

5R - Seemed like a great JLH candidate. Speed scaling damage dealer, they were on speed lead, and all of them were dark, which means they'd focus Jeanne. I hit Seren with Leo to push her back so she would be provoked before she could S3.

Second set I thought was a lot simpler than it actually seemed to be.

1R - Obvious double snipe with Praline.

2R - I was about to run Hyanes into this, but I was reminded by @vale jay that if Ophilia is on swift she can outspeed my Hyanes. Ran Belial instead. I took my unskilled one in by accident so this took a LOT longer than it should have, but it worked out fine.

3R - Pretty fine Bolverk. Killed Miles first and put everything on -fire so that Perna couldn't kill anything. Seemed fine.

4R - Only def break is on Ashour, so I can funnel that into Windy. Then I just needed to kill Chandra first. Racuni helped cleanse bombs and silences.

5R - I set this comp up very very wrong. I mistakenly thought that Bastet gives 3 buffs instead of just 2, so Odin moved first with just 4 stacks instead of 5. The correct way of making this work is Bastet -> Federica -> Snipe Ritesh -> Odin -> Snipe Rakan. From there I think I can 3v1 the Praha.

I feel pretty stupid in 5R but I'm never repeating that mistake again.

[tired hollow]

Quick q- is there any reason you didn’t send bethony for 5r

[meager mauve]

New account. no bethony

[tired hollow]

Oh whoops

[rotund sail]

as a julie enjoyer I do not approve this

[tired hollow]

Julie into that one is sus to me, but I could be wrong- I feel like people like to put ophelia on will

Oh

Klo is stealing my thunder

[hardy plank]

Is that pajamaman

[rotund sail]

Deveraja

[hardy plank]

I concur with Klo on 1

[tired hollow]

I think we shit on jayke too much here, so nice solve on 4r

[vale jay]

I never pulled Bethony stop bullying dude

[autumn crystal]

Buy jayke packs until you remedy this egregious error

[vale jay]

I'm f2p

[vale jay]

Tetra is a bad choice for 7R in my opinion

Riley, even Angela I feel would be better

[tired hollow]

Can’t we tractor +2 wind?

[vale jay]

I don't see why you would run that when you have the ability to run Camilla belial

[drowsy gale]

@meager mauve hii, I am a bit confused, is this an actual guide?

[vale jay]

[stray tundra]

no this is Jaykke's thread where he discusses his G3 WGB and Siege hits

[meager mauve]

This isn't a guide. This is a place where advisors have given advice that isn't in any guide or command.

[drowsy gale]

ohh well, that is s till useful I am halfway reading it

will everything be covered in here?

[meager mauve]

Are you asking if you'll know everything there is to know about Siege after reading through the thread?

[drowsy gale]

well mostly the important part.

[meager mauve]

No. This isn't going to cover everything. If you want to get better you also need to play.

The best way to learn is to read #1048719420870107227 and then go test things out for yourself. Try things out. See what works. Ask why when it doesn't.

This thread is my instance of doing that.

[drowsy gale]

is there no part 2 after beginner pvp?

like advanced pvp.

[meager mauve]

beginner pvp has advanced stuff in it.

I'm in G3 siege and I still use the concepts in beginner pvp

[drowsy gale]

aha, so it's not beginner then.

[meager mauve]

I'm really confused. What exactly are you hoping to get out of a guide?

Guides are just that, guides. They aren't supposed to teach you everything.

[drowsy gale]

to be good at pvp.

[meager mauve]

Yeah you don't get good by reading. You need to actually play.

This thread is my location for asking questions after playing.

You can do the same and you'll learn very quickly.

Reading isn't enough. You need to actually go and do things. if all you want to do is read and become the best there is that's impossible.

Just like you can't get good at a sport without practice, you can't get good at SW without practice.

You can read and watch videos on the perfect tennis form, but you'll never hit a good forehand without practice.

[drowsy gale]

That makes sense, I am practicing too, it is just sometimes it is nice to read a guide to guide u in the right direciton when practicing.

[tired hollow]

Just go to a g3 guild- that’s step 0 basically

[vale jay]

I never got good and I can't read?

[meager mauve]

Then you're absolutely COOKED

[meager mauve]

I think this first set went well

1 - Chacha is a great monster. Tesa for Taranys, but helps with Kinki. Riley helped cleanse + provided ATK buff for tesa to end the fight faster. I also tried to time the S2's to avoid getting slept. Worked really well and I honestly don't see how this comp can lose.

2 - Free double snipe. Leave Ophilia to hit Praline.

3 - Bolverk seemed just fine against this. No defense breaks and Smicer can't really land bombs consistently against Amelia. They also can't go off because I can just cleanse them.

4 - I thought about this and I think this comp is actually pretty decent, though it's my least confident send of the 5. FY was in fact perma provoked, but I thought that was okay since my goal was to kill Savannah and Moore. I didn't really see how it would be possible for Rakan to kill FY after Savannah died. Thinking about it now, I think maybe Angela instead of FY would be more helpful. She can cleanse and has good heals, even if she ends provoked.

5 - Very easy Hyanes.

[hardy plank]

Pssst there’s better units than Tesa here

I’d rather an ethna or something with a faster clock

[meager mauve]

I knew you were going to suggest Ethna

She isn't skilled.

So no ethna useage

[hardy plank]

LOGAN

Momo

[meager mauve]

logan I suppose, but couldn't he be vulnerable to kinki revenge def break + vio proc? Tesa is at least 100 res and can oblivion the kinki to prevent that.

[hardy plank]

So one

S3 autocrits and Logan’s was used into Kinki defenses before they chain nerfed Kinki

Two, Riley/chacha is a lot of protection for Eminem

[meager mauve]

I think you mean slim shady

[hardy plank]

Yea

Logan’s the real slim shady

[meager mauve]

I am also still getting used to this account. All sorts of monsters I've never used before. Logan is one of those.

[hardy plank]

Back in my day everyone spammed him

[vale jay]

Just skill Ethna at this point ent is gonna keep recommending her to you

I summoned you one before I entered last tourney

[meager mauve]

Yeah ent seems to have a thing for Ethna

I should probably not just skill her up but get Ent's skin of choice just to be sure.

[hardy plank]

Look ethna is the scariest wind unit

You blink and half your team is dead

[tired hollow]

[tired hollow]

Do you run Ethna on vio in siege? Fairly tanky on cr s4?

Or more offensive

I guess it depends on how little the defense has access to her

[hardy plank]

It can be either

[tired hollow]

@hardy plank would u rather Sonia here instead of kahli? I worry about kahli damage into elad, and as much as ppl hate on cd Sonia I’m p sure she does more than kahli? Could be wrong

[hardy plank]

Sonia probably

Hits harder

[rotund sail]

I havent used much praline sonia, but with praline I'd always do cd sonia

[tired hollow]

Idk if this account has Sonia/rigna tho

[meager mauve]

Yes sonia

[autumn crystal]

P sure this account has like 4 Sonia

[calm falcon]

yea 4 sonia 0 rigna

[tired hollow]

Could’ve sworn I saw rigna when I was rushing

Oh

Wrong account

[proud lichen]

Sonia without spd buff

[rotund sail]

its fine

its not like a ciri

[proud lichen]

[meager mauve]

When I'm building Ethna for a bruiser comp, for example for Ethna Chacha Riley, how is she supposed to be built? Do I need to worry about HP on her much or is it better to just build her with raw damage and make it so that all the damage is funneled away from her?

[rotund sail]

vio destroy / will spd cr hp usually

i only saw ethna into some chandra x odin defs tbf

not sure about other defs

@hardy plank

[meager mauve]

Mainly this is for WGB sets

Because I've found SO MANY instances where Ent recommends Ethna

In WGB

[vale jay]

Yeah that's an entrei special

[hardy plank]

Depends how much damage she’ll be taking

Usually x cr hp

Where x is either speed or jp

*hp

You can be cd in some instances

[meager mauve]

First WGB set was pretty nice. Last time I think I stream my hits though because I was reruning a bunch of stuff.

1R was basically taking advantage of the fact that this defense had no LD, so I could control the def breaks on water twins and ren into Kunite. I put Manon on CR to end the fight faster. Cami was on 286 nem to help provide sustain.

2R was really funny because I thought at first that Tesa would be great here, and then I realized THIS IS WHERE ENT WOULD SAY "ETHNER"

3R Really easy Feng Leo. Clicked auto after killing Dark Megumi.

4R I thought about this one and I was worried that Fei could potentially win this 1v3. However, with Odin, I felt that would be harder to do because he could revive, which makes it so she has to vio proc AGAIN.

5R Sonia -> Seara, then put Adriana and MY on -water. MY S2 with Adriana buffs on Brita to get her low and from there it's a pretty safe hit.

Hopefully Scarlet is happy with me using my premiums, hopefully Ent is happy with the Ethner usage, and hopefully jx9 is happy with the 2 snipe comps being used.

And despite the fact that this is G2, so the defenses aren't runed, I really didn't feel like these hits could lose, minus 4R on some insane vio procs and S1 luck from Fei.

[hardy plank]

[vale jay]

What does kunite do in 1R exactly

Overall pretty good though

Seems like you have a good amount of thought for each hit

[tired hollow]

I like these hits

This is my kinda wgb hit list

Can you not belial twins ren? I haven’t tried it before

[fiery geode]

even without multihits, kunite is still one of the best fire tanks there is. all gargoyle stone form have 30% damage reduction

[vale jay]

No

I lost last siege doing this

(unless the +1 kills shit.. like it does here)

I dunno though I don't dislike Jayke's hit after having lost to it

I think it's good

[rotund sail]

Byungchul is a +1 to that for sure

[vale jay]

Jayke stays 100 winrate

[calm falcon]

so op...

[vale jay]

Just saying he hasn't lost yet..

[calm falcon]

im absorbing his losses

[meager mauve]

REposting set 1 because there's tech in it that I've been asked not to share.

[calm falcon]

[rotund sail]

[calm falcon]

was that tech

[meager mauve]

Probably too late but

Just following orders o7

[calm falcon]

fair

[meager mauve]

Technically it was.

[calm falcon]

I thought it was just with another +1

not the entire thing

oh well

[stray tundra]

might wanna remove the R2 text as well

(just saying)

[meager mauve]

Nah it's okay to say I used Ethner.

[stray tundra]

[autumn crystal]

Is twl tech too?

[meager mauve]

Starting now, everything is tech.

[rotund sail]

preview of jaykes next post

[calm falcon]

[autumn crystal]

[hardy plank]

tech
stolen tech

Honestly without the kumar that defense is trivialized because it can’t realistically beat Dias

[rotund sail]

it never got popular on eu

sadly

[proud lichen]

Is that base really tech

[royal summit]

[hollow basin]

Rerune first then ping us

[meager mauve]

First loss. Quite disappointed actually. It was not a loss I'm okay with.

I think if I had used Windy this would have been safer. I watched the replay back and it turns out that TL pushed back Bolverk's ATB but not Amelias, so Bolverk was moving out of Immunity whenever Amelia got it up. He got def broken and then killed by TL + Theo procs.

The other issue was that my mons were 239 and these were 286. I think if I had brought Windy that would be much less of a problem.

Not happy with this loss. It could have been prevented. But we live and learn.

[fiery geode]

did you know that a full 286 team will never lap a full 239 team?

[meager mauve]

I did not, but the pushback from TL helped them to lap.

I guess they didn't "lap" but they took more turns.

[fiery geode]

windy is definitely better, mo long only works if you can guarantee a bolv > mo snipe on a unit right from the start of the battle

and both TL and ophilia can mess that up

im just pointing out that this isn't really an issue with speed or ticks

[meager mauve]

Unfortunatley had a WGB loss, but I'm not really sure what to do about it. I'd like some help understanding how to handle Zerath defenses.

[rotund sail]

just bring the suicide squad instead of elad byungchul

[meager mauve]

Can't they just immediately die to a vio proc from Maxi instead?

I thought about it, but if I build them to die, Maxi can vio proc and kill stuff and then I end up losing because Zerath wipes them afterwards anyway.

[rotund sail]

iunu psamath passive should kill maxi

besides the fact that you can just outspeed it

the swift threat is a dark megoomer

[autumn crystal]

Zerath ai prioritizes heal when hurt

[meager mauve]

OH. YOU CAN'T SET FIRST SKILL IN WGB

I completely forgot.

So yeah all I have to do is just move first, hit the Zerath, and then he doesn't use his cleave.

[rotund sail]

he wouldnt set zerath s3 anyway

[meager mauve]

Only issue is surviving the maxi damage.

[autumn crystal]

Lushen it

[meager mauve]

I have been told many, many times not to lushen Zerath. XD

[autumn crystal]

Solves the maxi problem

[hardy plank]

I forget you don’t have Belial right

[meager mauve]

I do have Belial.

[hardy plank]

Cami Belial gyomei should auto there

Maxi will crit cami most likely so zerath wont s3 on def break

And gyo can’t be def broken

So

[fiery geode]

you've also probably been told not to listen to generic blanket statements

you can lushen zerath just fine, there is 0 expectation that lushen kills the zerath but thats not how lushen teams work

[meager mauve]

Thank you all for the ideas. This seems mostly just like an issue where I didn't think completely through everything, and only went as far as thinking through the first couple of steps.

[vale jay]

He's me now

I like suicide teams too here with a bruiser to clean up

Ideally Camilla

Something like psama Iunu cami sounds decent too if you wanted to Belial a different def

[rotund sail]

[vale jay]

Sorry I'm dendent the readig

[meager mauve]

Honestly I need to just do my other set tomorrow. I felt like these hits were not that safe and I rune gapped

I couldn't focus super well and so my ability to hit this stuff was diminished a lot.

I think 1 and 3 are both fine. 4 is iffy and I think 2 and 5 are probably not as safe as I thought when I built the comps.

[vale jay]

These hits are indeed strange

1R is good enough

2R you just bolverk. There's not enough strips

3R is good enough

There's plenty of angles that work fine into 4R. One you might consider would be just good old tractor/gyomei windy camilla. Alternatively, gyomei/windy Camilla Belial is fine.

5R is where you want to utilize Juno. Juno cayde Racuni would be my go-to for this defense.

[meager mauve]

OH CAYDE. I am so not used to having Cayde. Thank you.

[hardy plank]

Jayke can we get a box update btw

[vale jay]

No rigna

[meager mauve]

Yeah. Can do. Soon.

[meager mauve]

New box. This is missing Alesia, which I just pulled a couple days ago.

[hardy plank]

pin pls

[meager mauve]

2nd set the only one I didn't really know what to do about is 5R. This seemed okay... ish? I mean it's the poster child for "I have no idea what to send so send Feng" but I also figured the immunities and cleanses would be useful against this particular comp.

Everything else is super standard.

[tired hollow]

Might not be super important but I think rigna is harder for Odin to trap than Sonia

[vale jay]

Great suggestion

Jayke pull a rigna

[tired hollow]

Doesnt he have one now…?

Oh whoops

[vale jay]

Nope

[tired hollow]

Mb

[rotund sail]

just get a proper sonia*

[vale jay]

He has one

[rotund sail]

meant rwang to be fair, since his got def trapped

[vale jay]

It could be improved too, I doubt he's reruned it yet but I got a significant upgrade before I passed account on

I got a 24 SPD crate quad for swift

[meager mauve]

I have re-runed it. I am not sure I used the rune you claim is a "significant" upgrade though. The upgrade was around 100 more ATK

I had to swap a couple of swift runes around to make it all work.

[hardy plank]

I’d be cautious on 2 bc kumar will oblivion Tesa. Don’t you own hyanes

[meager mauve]

He can, but it's very hard. I have run this comp quite a bit in testing, and it's very difficult for Tesa to get oblivioned and stay oblivioned long enough for it to matter. I have 2 cleanses and CC.

[vale jay]

This comp is not as solid of a counter as Hyanes

Hyanes should come first

Stop this f2p shit

Every single set you look at you should enter with immediately deciding where you are using Camilla and where you are using Adriana

Since dyeus always crits in thunderer, Camilla is a reasonable option for 5R. Something like Camilla cayde belial or gyomei windy Camilla both sound sensible to me.

[tired hollow]

[rotund sail]

Rune your presets

[calm falcon]

agreed

[vale jay]

THEY ARE

[meager mauve]

They are runed.... in siege.......

[meager mauve]

This set was pretty easy. I thought 2R was a really nice setup because Verde's passive means nothing to Kinki. Everything else was pretty straightforward. Really REALLY bad defenses.

I will admit 5R was a bad idea, but I had info and when I watched, the fire monkey was really squishy. He died almost immediately. The other two I just locked down long enough to kill. It took a bit, but there wasn't much they could do considering they were reset so much.

4R was really nice. Tarnisha is a great unit.

[tired hollow]

I concur

[calm falcon]

these defenses man

[meager mauve]

Our guild has managed to reach G3 WGB and I already see the difference in team quality.

1.) The idea was basically kill Ophilia and then prevent Theomars from moving. Mimirr was on 85 acc/286 tick to make sure that could happen.

2.) I don't know if I piloted this right, but I think so. Sonia -> Orion and then MY -> Seara. If MY doesn't kill Seara, she can't bomb and kill anything since there's immunity everywhere. Kill Seara and then it's 1v3 vs Rakan. Felt just fine.

3.) This is a weird one. I didn't think about Smicer passive and Tarnisha was silenced. I should have made Tetra or Windy move before Tarnisha. If Tarnisha had not been silenced, then I would have easily been able to win this hit. But because she was silenced, she got killed pretty fast.

4.) I've seen a variant of this with Shahat, but our solution to that won't work into Zeni. However, there's basically 0 damage besides zenitsu, and the only def break on the entire defense is on Zeni. I just picked 3 bruisers, made sure to have 1 be fire to be in the bag, and this was pretty free.

5.) This probably wasn't as safe of a hit as it felt. Xiana moved one time and got Elucia to around half health. After that, she vio procced once to use S3, but everything had immunity from Riley so it did nothing.

I think on 3R there's a better play. I could have probably cleaved it somehow but Camilla made it hard for me to figure out the right cleave angle.

[rotund sail]

you can just adriana cleave the 3rd

and do something else in 2

[meager mauve]

Do you Sonia the Smicer and then MY Carc?

[rotund sail]

ye

[meager mauve]

I had that idea but I couldn't think of a good idea for 2R and thought I could bruiser 3 a little easier.

[rotund sail]

I think you can bolverk the 3rd aswell

[meager mauve]

Hmmm.... I guess that works. It'd be a little scary because a bomb could theoretically go off if it's timed right, but I suppose I could just save Amelia S2 for it.

[proud lichen]

If you replace tarnisha with tractor wyou pretty much win for free

Just build a fatty windy

[meager mauve]

I don't know because it's hard to kill Camilla with that lineup.

You can probably win it eventually by putting both Windy and Tractor on destroy but it would take a long time and you'd have to vio proc a couple times I'd think.

[proud lichen]

Could be but with the tarnisha oblivion angle we praying on her landing off ele and not getting frozen locked, right

[meager mauve]

Not getting frozen locked, yes, but landing oblivion off ele is not hard because of her spread which is element neutral.

But the frozen locked I assumed with Tetra I could solve that because she could cleanse Tarnisha.

But anyway, it's a moot point. Klo is right. Bolverk is probably best.

[proud lichen]

Yeah no reason to argue over small details for a shitty def lmao

You will only see it in WGB anyway

[rotund sail]

you can also just bolverk the r1

[fiery geode]

you're overestimating cami and underestimating tractor dmg

[fiery geode]

i dont know what this means

this is not a bad def

tractor tetra windy is perfectly fine

the reason tarnisha doesn't work has nothing to do with landing oblivion or not

it's just that she can be def broken and die easily

while bolv should be fine as well i'd imagine bolv is actually riskier

just imagine it. smicer targets amelia and from then on amelia is perma cc'ed

OH sorry misread we weren't saying bolv this

oh wait i didn't misread we did say bolv this too

(so dont)

[fiery geode]

while destroy on tractor and/or windy would be the correct way to rune this team vs this def, i am 100% confident even if you had no destroy and the enemy did, you'd still win easily, and you wouldn't need to rely on any crazy procs

you should try it

[meager mauve]

I'm pretty sure I did try it a while ago and ended up tying because I could never kill Cami.

let me see if I can find the hits. I remember talking about it a while ago

Yeah. Same kind of idea. Run Tractor Windy Tetra.

I was never able to damage Cami enough to kill her. Both Tractor and Windy were on Destroy. Still not enough.

That's kind of why I was worried about doing it here. I've already had an instance where Tractor + Windy did not deal enough damage to kill Cami.

This could be a rune issue though.

[fiery geode]

100% rune issue

tractor OR windy + tetra alone should have no problem killing cami

this is a case of you 1) not having vio and 2) not having any sort of damage/artis at all

[meager mauve]

Alright. I'll remember that for next time. Funny how poor builds can make me think it's bad choices rather than bad builds.

Would Windy and Tractor both need to be on addls and no cr? I'd assume they'd need as little as possible to deal more damage.

Or would it really matter since you're planning on just overwhelming her with faster mons + addls anyway

[fiery geode]

just standard builds

standard build is adds, no cr

[meager mauve]

Second set was quite a bit easier.

2R I thought about the piloting for a while. At first I was going to Sonia Zen and then hit MY with my own. Then I realized Devaraja could potentially 1v3, so I decided instead to leave Zen alive and kill Devaraja with Sonia.

3R Honestly this seemed like a weird defense to me. I get the idea of revenging a lot but if you just bruiser this and have a water unit there's no danger.

4R I think I can probably make this much safer by bringing in Helena instead of Laika. I was hoping Laika could help make this end much faster by getting miles down quicker, but it ended up getting a little bit sketchy.

5R I forgot Destroy so it took longer than I would have liked to finish this, but I did make sure to bring Riley so that Shamann couldn't get oblivioned while Mi Ying was on the board.

[vale jay]

I'm a fan of 55 crate I also love the 286 Tractor Windy X stuff, I know in the past we have mentioned running tractor on 205 but 286 tractor feels like some monstrous shit. Most people can't do 55 crate with reasonable stats on 286 though, but that would be my recommendation @meager mauve .

55 specifically because after crate buff you hit 85, which with element advantage goes to 100

[rotund sail]

havent used tractor in ages ngl, but faster tractor sounds funny!

[fiery geode]

i'm not going to argue that it's worse but i will argue that it's completely unnecessary

and then you are using a super premium set for a monster that doesnt' need it

at lower levels having to swap for every single monster in every single hit is a waste of time

at higher levels as i'm sure you're experiencing... it's actually a big competitive disadvantage

[vale jay]

I just run it in deck personally

I think tractor windy Camilla is super strong still despite windy being nerfed

[fiery geode]

tractor windy are definitely super strong

and are super common offense units

and should have their own sets without even needing a deck swap

not having to swap at all is still much faster than doing a deck swap

[vale jay]

Indeed

[fiery geode]

also it is a super big hassle to update decks

this probably doesn't come across for me, but especially as someone who has been playing for a very long time and have been using the same units for a very long time

i quite constantly update my builds

as i get new runes, as i want to change builds to deal with changing meta

[hardy plank]

Honestly with how cheap rune swapping is I think it’s a good exercise to just rune things on the fly

It helps build your functional knowledge of both your runes and how things should be built really fast

[fiery geode]

i completely disagree

i mean you should be runing things on the fly, without an optimizer. that part is good

but having to do it in the middle of a siege after reserving a hit is not good

[hardy plank]

This was in the context of wgb

[fiery geode]

oh ok my bad

you're right on that part

you do have to make a lot more adjustments when it comes to wgb

[hardy plank]

Siege yea it’s different although I’d encourage you to get comfortable coming up with new sets as needed if you aren’t in a rush

IE you know this will come up in 10 minutes so build it from scratch

[fiery geode]

but my point still stands - if you're running other teams that need that 286 tick or higher vio a lot more

like the hyanes homie verard team

you don't need to be forcing 286 for a tractor team on the same set

[hardy plank]

Well this one you can just run on swift

But yea depth runing is a thing

[fiery geode]

i know that we stress the importance of building every team as best as you can and runing things specifically for each def

but sometimes it's taken too far here

need to find a middle ground between sending 5 presets with no reruning, and spending an hour+ on each wgb round

[rotund sail]

might just be a question of depth

not entirely sure tho

[vale jay]

I prefer to have less depth and more excellent runes these days. I think it serves you better in modern summoners war.

But anyways

Jayke has absolutely no shortage of depth

At all

I assure you that

One of my biggest regrets actually is focusing more on depth than min-maxing my best runes

[meager mauve]

This is actually kind of a tricky thing sometimes

Because sometimes I'll use units in a WGB set that i wouldn't typically use.

A good example of this is the Shamann. I dont' think I've used Shamann in Siege since G1

But I used him here because he was BIS to tank Mi Ying. I'm not going to leave Shamann on a random set when I could use those runes somewhere else.

But I am seeing just how important it is to build (and leave built) monsters that I will be using regularly. Especially if they don't share sets.

[fiery geode]

shamann is not what i mean by this

by all means if you want to use shamann in wgb you'll have to completely rune him from pve build to whatever you need

[meager mauve]

Right right. What I"m saying is that you can't just send presets at everything all the time, and sometimes it takes a long time to rune for WGB because you have to rune up all new teams.

But I think you're referring to siege and other stuff in general. WGB excepted.

[rotund sail]

.

[hardy plank]

^^

I feel like depth gaming is a kind of antiquated way to play siege and its more of a rta thing atp

I feel like in siege at least your top end is everything

Outside of having depth for defenses

[rotund sail]

I was referring depth for wgb offense to be fair, to just slam down presets

[meager mauve]

I think I made some poor decisions this WGB set.

I think 1R and 4R are the ones where I made poor decisions.

[hardy plank]

Why is there no Leo in 1

[meager mauve]

Mostly because I wasn't sure what to pair him with since I had FY on 3

[hardy plank]

Something like wmk tetra would work fine there for example

Dismount sav asap to get rid of their defense breaks

The scary part is open but assuming you go full tank you should be fine

[rotund sail]

where adrianer

[calm falcon]

ty for scouting, I will now be hitting this set

[rotund sail]

you can also just bolverk that

[meager mauve]

Where would you have used her? I didn't see a great spot where it would work okay besides maybe 5R, but that was just easier to Lushen

[rotund sail]

the one you lost to for example

assuming you have rigna tbf

[hardy plank]

Double shoot the sav

[rotund sail]

I would prefer that over sonier

[meager mauve]

No rigner

[rotund sail]

or that

[hardy plank]

Taor

[meager mauve]

Wait so you run Adriana Taor Sonia?

[rotund sail]

mihyang

[hardy plank]

Mihyang…

[meager mauve]

MY Adriana Taor? Why would we want Taor over Sonia?

[hardy plank]

Because there’s a rakan?

Sonia shoots sav -> mihy kills sav -> rakan kills sonia

Is a very real line

[hollow basin]

Isn’t the play MY Draco Taor for the first offense or am I tripping

So Draco is guaranteed to tank Rakan after everyone moves not MY or Taor

[meager mauve]

Could the line not also happen with Taor?

[rotund sail]

also fair

[meager mauve]

Taor shoots Sav -> MY kills Sav -> Rakan kills Taor

I don't see how those lines are any different.

[hollow basin]

That’s why u use Draco instead of Adri no?

[calm falcon]

draco can get dmg checked way easier

because no guaranteed atk buff

[meager mauve]

Other than you have element advantage, which I've never put much stock in because it isn't unlucky for stuff to crit element disadvantage.

[hardy plank]

Taor being water and being third slot does a lot there

[hollow basin]

Fair

[hardy plank]

But yea you can also just Draco

The real answer is Leo however

Bc they don’t have anything that deals with Leo

[calm falcon]

can rakan not solo

[hollow basin]

I think Ent u did mention one time the scariest part is that my draco taor can still lose cause nem sav or something

Scary trap but unlikely

[rotund sail]

my phat ass would also julie that def

[calm falcon]

klo, this is #1047269577614164098

!!

[hardy plank]

That’s not a trap I’d expect to see from guilds running moore sav rakan

Against tourney guilds? Yea ofc

Against whatever this is? No

[calm falcon]

random chinese guild

[hollow basin]

True

[meager mauve]

I actually did debate on doing this

But I figured I might get told "hey that's stupid don't do that"

So I decided to be even dumber and lose instead.

[calm falcon]

Ill julie it..

[proud lichen]

L just sack atk buff

[meager mauve]

I'm aware that the praline hit into Chandra on 1R.2 is racing at disadvantage, I just sent it because I figured I could win. I was faster.

Also on 5R.2, I really don't know what I could send there, so I just threw FY at it.

Also is 4R.1 a bad idea because of Manon? I figured it should be okay but it might not be.

[calm falcon]

I feel like manon is a risk yeah

one of those units that cannot take a single turn or she gets perma immunity

3 turn? too I think so hyanes cant strip it either

[fiery geode]

manon is fine if you're on will

i'd be more worried about swift zen

btw manon passive only blocks damage. it doesn't cancel out the entire attack and doesn't block cc

[fiery geode]

homie has strip on both s1 and s2

[calm falcon]

ah yea

[meager mauve]

Yeah I was mostly referring to the stun from S3 causing issues.

[fiery geode]

yea so thats why you just have will and you're fine

[hardy plank]

This is my concern, although if you’re full swift this is negated

[hardy plank]

I’d be cautious bringing cami Belial versus lami. While this defense (probably) isn’t built in a way where Zenitsu can reasonably kill rina any sequence where rina gets defense broken and Belial gets spawn camped once gets really scary really fast because lami is uniquely good at killing cami Belial

[meager mauve]

There's no reason to keep a dupe Praha right?

I can't think of one, but I'm just checking

[fiery geode]

nope

[meager mauve]

Nor a dupe pajamaman nor a dupe Zibala

[fiery geode]

ive seen double pajamaman on ad before but thats kinda meme

you can get rid of all of them

[meager mauve]

Bellenus is another tough one. I've seen him used a few times in Siege Offense. Not sure if he'd be worth keeping though because of the insane Devil investment required for him to be useful.

[tired hollow]

Isntnpajama used in siege off

[vale jay]

pajamaman can be a nice premium

into some of the modern defs

dupe bellenus i would not keep

unfortunately most of the lines i've seen him used in are in defs that aren't really present on global...

[meager mauve]

Hmmm..... Another difficult one. I just pulled a dupe Ashour.

[vale jay]

Can keep

[hardy plank]

You can keep but it’s not high priority

[meager mauve]

I've had a couple of things I've been meaning to post here but I have forgotten to do so many times. Finally getting around to it now.

First thing is Sonia and Camilla changes. I have basically been acting as though they didn't do anything. I am honestly not entirely sure what the changes affect on them, if anything. I can't really pinpoint exact areas where Camilla or Sonia will now not be as good as before. This is mostly just experience based since I have only had a Cami and a Sonia for 1 season.

The second thing I've been meaning to post is about Tarnisha. Is Tarnisha fake or not? She seems like a do-it-all unit, but in my personal tests I've been able to just send leo with some cleanses or FY and it's completely fine. Is she just fake?

Or are teh defenses I've tested just built really bad?

[fiery geode]

you can act like camilla didn't change at all

sonia almost the same, although i would say you should be a bit more careful with using her

[meager mauve]

OH and I just pulled Slovark (water drakan warrior) and I don't think he's really useful almost anywhere. I haven't ever seen him used personally, and I can't really think of any comps where he's better than say, Tractor.

[fiery geode]

the biggest thing with sonia is that now you do have to pay a bit of attention to optimizing her damage

like consider CD and stuff

previously you just had her on a fast set tuned to your adriana and you just made sure you had decent atk 100 cr and ignored everything else

now that kind of build may not kill a tanky monster

[meager mauve]

Tanky meaning high HP?

[fiery geode]

yes

[meager mauve]

Okay so she kinda gets the regular sniper treatment now of "this mon has high base HP and there's an HP lead they might survive sonia"

For instance, Lamiella with her own lead now has a chance to survive Sonia.

[fiery geode]

yes

if you were sieging properly it really shouldn't make a difference

what i mean by that

is that adriana sonia is basically a spd contesting comp

you use it into other fast squishy defs

you weren't really supposed to use it into slower tanky ones

people eventually used it into everything, including slow tanky ones because it was op regardless

now you just need to be careful again

[meager mauve]

Yeah that makes sense. I currently save my Adrianas specifically for the spd lead defenses just because I want to outspeed the swift threats

[fiery geode]

in that case her nerf makes no difference

[rotund sail]

im also running cd sonia only pretty much

whenever I use her

[meager mauve]

Yeah that's kind of how I figured it. Places where I'd use Sonia are mostly just places where I can't double snipe because Praline is too slow.

[meager mauve]

I think right now my best build is on CR just because I lose something like 200-300 ATK if I do CD

But I do want to see if I can build a CD Sonia

[rotund sail]

I'd be more worried about getting tank trapped

than def trapped

[fiery geode]

as for solvark, he's not a tank like tractor, he's more of a water cc monster kinda like verad or jeongnam

usable but kinda niche, i wouldn't worry about him

[meager mauve]

Oh that's a good point actually.

[meager mauve]

How much attack does your sonia have on CD, if you don't mind sharing?

[supple onyx]

tarnisha NOT FRADULENT

[rotund sail]

if I fight 2700+ def on certain units I get trapped anyway

even with a 2300 attack sonia

Ive been tirsa enjoying anyway

with other +1's than mihyang

pretty sure ive used more khmun than mihyang

[meager mauve]

Yeah I run Tirsa more often than Sonia at the moment. I just pulled a 3rd.

[rotund sail]

gz =)

skilling up dat bitch with fire ciris is annoying tho

and my mr krabs lookin ass wouldnt wanna devil her

[tired hollow]

TRUE

[tired hollow]

Why does yours look like mine with same stats and cd slot 4

Is it spd cd atk?

[fiery geode]

oh yea and regarding tarnisha

not fake, she's one of those units where she's not busted and most preset offenses will win most of the time vs her

but on the other hand it's really hard to come up with a true 98%+ counter against her

if you just look at stats she kinda seems like she doesn't do well

but she can also get wins against the "good" players

[rotund sail]

Yes 👀

[tired hollow]

i have learned that while i can come close in bright chicken runes, i'm like 20 spd off of sonia

or more

[fiery geode]

never compare yourself to klo

i don't even compare myself to klo

[meager mauve]

I'm trying to work on my WGB defenses and I'm having some trouble determining which def should have the swift set. I saw someone else do this same thing, so I'm hoping I can get some good advice!

[fiery geode]

im thinking chandra

[meager mauve]

Previously I had it on Elena, but I think that's just too slow since her base speed is abysmal. I was thinking of putting it on Chandra, but I'm not certain that will be effective since nothing else really follows up after that.

[fiery geode]

not sure what you mean nothing follows up

you tune jaara to it

blow up tiana

[meager mauve]

Mostly just that setting up Jaara to follow swift chandra seems.... weak? I don't know. I just mostly expect swift chandras to enable multiple mons on the defense, not just one.

I suppose it doesn't really matter since Jaara is Jaara.

[fiery geode]

you can tune taranys to it too

you're not expecting jaara to kill a tanky monster

swift is to trap lazy slow cleaves

which is super common into chandra

[meager mauve]

mmmmm I suppose that makes sense. I do have Taranys on a CR build

[hardy plank]

I think if i was to spend 10s on this

and then trap it backwards

[tired hollow]

I would

1. Triple fire bruiser
2. Adriana mihy ciri
3. Idk bolverk maybe or Julie
4. Tiana grogen
5. Swift cleave

In other words swift Chandra is cooking me

Idk if the triple fire bruiser is very good into elsha actually

Hope that helps u make some traps

Though thinking about this more, theres probably some meph kona mihy funny business that I wonder if is okay

[meager mauve]

Wanted to post here with my WGB sets this go around because I've got a few questions.

This set I ran into 2 comps I just don't know how to deal with properly. The first is this Nigong Fei comp. I've just run bruisers with DR but I don't know if that's the most efficient way to do it. The second is Twins Ren. I lost this because I forgot to take Will on FY. He was on Destroy for ISA and I did not change it. My mistake. I don't know if that's necessarily safe here though.

This set I used topset on Adri to beat the opposing Adri. I wanted to use Sonia on 4R but honestly 2R was much easier. I just sent an 85 comp and prayed they didnt' have anything swift. Luckily they didn't and I won. But I'm not sure how to handle SJT if I don't have topset, and if I don't use Adri Sonia on 2R I'm not sure how I handle that comp because I don't see how they don't move first.

So to organize my questions:
1.) I'm not sure what the standard way to hit Chandra Nigong Fei is.

2.) I don't know how people hit Water Twins Ren. I've always skipped them.

3.) If I have to use my topset somewhere else, does that mean SJT is always going to be a risky hit? Or is there some other way I can approach it that will be safer than just yoloing 2nd swift set or an 85 comp?

[hardy plank]

Honestly I wouldn’t feng this regardless. Bananaman hurts and you can just have a line where it goes something like

Twink 1/3 def breaking vela, boosting bananaman

Bananaman kills vela

And then you’re just in a bad spot

1. What you did is fine. Fei without attack buff isn’t horribly scary so stacking units who won’t die to a wayward double def ignore s3 should be reliable enough

[hardy plank]

2. It depends on the unit but generally speaking you can Adriana rigna them with a full will comp. Just make sure the turn order is Adriana -> speed lead -> rigna

So if the ren moves first and clicks s3 it does nothing whatsoever

[hardy plank]

3. You might have to split ur swifts so one defense takes a faster comp that races at advantage while the other one takes ur fastest set bc it races closer

For 2 the funny comp is Icaru Adriana Rigna

Adriana s3 icaru s1 rigna s2 ld unit
Adriana s1 icaru s2 rigna s2 ramael

[calm falcon]

jayke is rigna less like me

[rotund sail]

if you replace ashour with camilla against fei youre also chilling

but byung xz are good

[meager mauve]

Wanted to post this WGB because I feel like I just reduced the comps very quickly because I thought they were bad. I want to make sure I'm not getting complacent.

1.) Standard.

[hardy plank]

Seems fine

[meager mauve]

2.) Don't see how FY loses this

3.) 85 comp but we send it because jaara

4.) Standard

5.) Honestly just buff city. I cidn't even have to run Amelia Windy adn could have just taken 2 DD's with no buffs and still won (I think?)

1.) Same thing basically.

2.) Did I sack here by killing Gapsoo T1?

3.) WE SEND JAARA

4.) Just kill Jaara and I felt like it was unloseable

[tired hollow]

2 seems kinda meh to me

[meager mauve]

5.) Honestly I don't think this is the safest thing ever. I sent bolverk because I felt like def break would never land on anything but windy, but shoudl I have been more worried?

[tired hollow]

But yeah they all seem fine

I don’t like the bolverk too much either personally cuz of the constant sustain from Molly making it kinda hard to kill from what I can tell

Is this apoc wgb?

Oh wait that’s simi

[meager mauve]

I had destroy on Windy so I figured it would work eventually

[tired hollow]

I like leoing Julianne

He ain’t narsha in my experience

[meager mauve]

I know he speed scales, but I don't think people build him that way. And there isn't a speed buff here either.

Plus I don't know what I'd send with Leo here. Tesa or something?

FY is in the yaya comp so I can't use that.

[tired hollow]

I find Shahat fine

Maybe I’m just sacking tho

[meager mauve]

Oh look at this guy with his skilled shahat 😠

I have one but not built or skilled. That's my next one.

[tired hollow]

Just blame account previous owner for that

[meager mauve]

Yeah. Previous owner was stupid and didn't pull him.

I had to do it myself.

smh

[tired hollow]

The more I look at the feng hit the more I dislike it tho

[stray tundra]

Sorry to chime in but isnt Jaara into byung scary? or is yours tanky?

assuming you s2 Julianne and fail to stun byung

[meager mauve]

I did not def break Julianne, so I S2'd nana then S1'd Byung. Didn't stun, but Byung targets Galleon with no def break from anything.

But you aim to hit Nana with Jaara S1 if you kill Julianne anyway.

[stray tundra]

ah

[meager mauve]

Because def break is what makes byung hit jaara after S2. Otherwise he hits Galleon.

[stray tundra]

ye i follow you now

[tired hollow]

kinda comp

[stray tundra]

ye i dont have balls to hit that with Jaara

[meager mauve]

I need to speed up my Tiana so I can run Dark Tanji instead for a 98 comp or whatever

But then yes, byung is scarier.

[meager mauve]

Yeah that's one I'm not sure about either. I think I just sacked killing Gapsoo T1

FY procced 3 times after def breaking on his first hit.

But this is kinda why I brought this up. Seemed like I just reduced the comp to "no speed lead and just looks bad, I can just send almost anything I think"

[tired hollow]

Brita can kill vela, Aaliyah feng give gapsoo lots of turns

That’s sorta my issue

[hardy plank]

Imo

1. Bolv Amelia/Ayaya Ermeda
2. Hyanes
3. WE SEND JAARA
4. Fine
5. I forget do you own rigna?

[sleek wigeon]

Guillaume (Dark Phantom Thief)

Wikia

1. Scene of the Crime

Attacks the enemy with a 30% Critical Rate bonus and stuns the enemy for 1 turn with a 20% chance.

Levels

Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%

Multiplier

4.0*{ATK}

2. Surprise Visit

Attacks with a 30% Critical Rate bonus and stuns the enemy if the attack lands as a Critical Hit. Additionally inflicts damage that ignores all damage reduction effects. (Reusable in 3 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

6.0*{ATK}

3. Elaborate Plan (Passive)

Increases your Critical Damage by 100%. Increases the chances of receiving a Glancing Hit by 30% and gains Invincible effect for 1 turn if you're attacked with a Glancing Hit. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[meager mauve]

I do not own Rigna, but I will soon! Just pulled her in the nat 5 choice thingy. (Unless I get Lami from that in which case I will pick Lami instead)

[tired hollow]

Sackers

[meager mauve]

Couple of defenses I ran into last siege that I didn't know how to handle. I won but I'm not sure they are super safe

This seemed fine, but I can't really tell if I was lucky or not. I used this offense twice and both times it worked fine.

Light Paul doesn't seem like that big of a threat.

Ran out of Talcs and I ran this instead:

Which seems much scarier.

This one I came up with on the fly. I can't tell if Misty just obliterates me or not.