#S15 Siege advice thread

649 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rugged elk
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After a very helpful thread for a beginning siege player in S14 hovering around low G2, I'm gonna make another thread here to learn even more.

I will be playing this time in G3 (not a tourney guild) and expect it will be very challenging as I have not experienced G3 defenses and a lot of trap defenses yet. This thread is also a log for myself (and hopefully also for other beginner siege players).

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Siege already started today and found it much more difficult to counter 5* towers mainly due to no experience in seeing LD 5 + 2. There probably also will be questions for some defenses that I did not hit due to not having a good idea how to hit some of them (like sylvia +2)

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Season started with fighting a tourney guild and a random G3. There are definitely multiple offenses that did not make sense (and way better choices could be made)

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  1. Decent. Havent fought this defense yet. So the idea here is to mainly tank Vigor with Kunite where Clara can't armor break anyone except Kunite. The plan is to slowly wither them down with destroy. However there was a risky moment where Tetra got armor broken by Vritra
  2. Good. Better speed lead with better base booster. Kill dark phoenix, dismount Sav and kill Sav with Mihyang
  3. Good. Same Idea as #2 and 3 vs 1 dismounted Sav
  4. Decent. I do not have the secret tech and after experimenting this offense was fine. Like this more than TTW
  5. Decent. Not sure if this is really that good, but I did not have another Kunite and therefore used TTW.
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  1. Very bad. This was scouted, but it still was not good at all. I do not have a third Tetra and could not use TTW, and Racuni instead of Tetra does not seem good at all. Lushen should not been used here at all except if I have Mirinae which I dont have. This could be easily a Lushen trap
  2. Decent. The plan is that LM always focus armor broken onyx where he cannot take a turn. However with Nepthys heal block it could be tricky with Camilla and Vamp Tractor. I think the idea is good, but I feel there is still something missing here
  3. Bad. Very bad offense. Water Ezio into Xiana S3 and atk buff Seara bomb easily kills me here. I dont know how to bruiser this. I think there is a chance to outspeed this using Mihyang Adriana +1, but I did not have a third Mihyang
  4. Decent-Bad. It could have been a decent offense if Malite was swapped out for Windy. This was a rushed hit as we needed to tag a base. Malite does not make sense here at all. The initial idea was that Malite could do his thing and tank Tesa and Elucia/Vigor could tank the other two with armor break, however I just forgot the fact that it does not matter and Tesa could easily kill Malite with multiple procs. Also Malite does not go well with Elucia which I totally forgot
  5. Bad. I'm not even sure what I was thinking here. I thought about double snipe, but I'm scared of Byungchul 1vs3 my team. Then the idea was two have 2 fire with 1 wind so everyone focusses the wind unit. However, Byungchul strip into Tesa S2 with a proc just almost kills Riley. Juno here does not make sense here except her strip. To bruiser this I thought I really needed some type of fire stripper, which meant Juno. But this is just not good.
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Some things that I could hit but have absolutely no idea how to hit safely are Sylvia defenses. Against Sylvia Zen/Cichlid Tesa you could use Tesa Haegang Riley (finally got my Haegang today peepoBlush ). But there were two defenses that I just could not hit safely:

  • Sylvia Adriana Odin,
  • Sylvia Light Eivor Tesa

Both of these are very scary and outspeeding just seems impossible due to 33 speed lead and high base monsters. Maybe there is just not safe counter yet (or secret tech) that could bruiser this pretty safely

orchid wave
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I wouldn't Julie #3 unless you're confident in your Julie or you already have info on the def

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#7 should be fine if your builds are efficient enough with decent addls. I may consider chacha instead just for the shield

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Since lm can pop off and eshir S3 does decent dmg

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Personally for #8 I treat it like a Seara Clara kaki def - where my counter is carc rina x. Everyone on standard builds, focus Seara/xiana depending on carc passive

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Also noting the rare case of a high atk Seara which will just bomb the shit out of you

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#9 i feel like if you wanted to you could MVL this no?

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Or just bolv ame windy

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I'm with you on those Sylvia defs, that's honestly a headscrstcher for me

sweet fiber
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do you have bolverk, helena?

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bolv amelia windy and jeanne helena leo are the 2 most preset/spammable op offenses into a lot of LD stuff, in particular jeanne leo helena into #8 or sylvia light eivor tesa

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a lot of times there just really isn't anything f2p safe into them

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against sylvia adriana odin you can do mihyang eshir/adriana sonia, or another popular way to bruiser odin is to use double reviver

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for example, elad + triana + some other bruiser like diana

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your team for #10 wasn't that bad, riley is actually quite popular as a tank against tesa

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it takes a string of bad rng for tesa to kill riley, like you need it to line up with byungchul's strip, you need tesa to land def break, you need tesa to proc

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your +2 you're right could be better, you could use stuff that provides more support for riley. for example khmun deals dmg but also shields, lala can heal and strip, etc

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you don't even have to use fire in this case. only def breaks are going on riley. so you can use for example water bruisers such as miles

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malite is also ok into tesa (with regards to #9). better +2 would be just tractor/camilla tetra though instead of elucia vigor

rugged elk
rugged elk
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That elad + triana is what I was considering, but a bit scared if sylvia and Odin goes crazy

rugged elk
rugged elk
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I skipped the evaluation of previous week Thursday as it was a pretty easy siege with already good standard counters

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Today it was a very difficult siege for me. Went 7-3 with wrong comps used and wrong piloting in some cases. Hitted mostly into the tourney guild defenses as I'm trying to learn more, instead of just using standard counters in well known defenses

rugged elk
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  1. Standard
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  1. Bad. It is a well known defense, but just not good offense. Yes Yeonwha is good into this def, but the problem I'm facing here is Lulu getting armor broken and getting killed in the second rotation. I should just use Feng Leo Tetra here as suggested by jx9. After this attack I built my Haegang to use in Tesa Haegang Riley comp. Will use this in the future.
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  1. Decent. Went with another attack and this time with Camilla. This is I think pretty standard.
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  1. Standard
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  1. Decent-Bad. I honestly thought that this was a decent attempt into this defense. Manipulate Tesa and Narsha into hitting Dias where I can almost perma cc one of those two to let Dias survive. However I think my piloting was not good here as I mostly slept Narsha, this should've been Tesa. Also Vigor could be swapped out for probably a better bruiser. If I had another Camilla, this would've been her spot. I would've used JLH if I had Helena (correct me if I'm wrong, but JLH would have been very good here). Another guildie hit this def with Bolverk Amelia Dias, which is still better than my offense. However do not have Amelia, and using Lulu instead of Amelia does not seem good enough.
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  1. Standard. Thank you jx9 for suggesting this comp. This is a pretty good bruiser offense into this defense.
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  1. Very bad. This was for me an instant cleave. However, Lushening is just not good into Kiki. My first initial idea is using double snipe just like #8 into this def, but I was too scared for swift Moore as I cannot tune my fastest swift to have enough dmg on my snipers. Therefore I chose to do Lushen (bad idea) and Mihyang to at least snipe Kiki, but Kiki survived both even when both have +dark. The def was also not built on swift, but on super tanky build to trap Lushen comps with shield sets. It just seems very hard to hit this defense without prior knowledge as I dont have Amelia to use with Bolverk. Using something like Mihyang Adriana +1 seems not great compared to double snipe as Mihyang cannot safely snipe Audrey or get close to it which makes 3 vs 2 hard
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  1. Decent. With knowledge of previous attack, I can safely double snipe this defense.
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  1. Good. I can safely kill Manannan here with better base speed. Dont really like bruisering this as Manannan hits pretty hard
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  1. Standard.
sweet fiber
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for #2, tesa yeonhwa is great you just need to use tetra not lulu

rugged elk
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I also need help in other defenses which I had trouble to come up with a counter.

  • Byungchul Giselle Narsha
  • Clara Gisella Narsha
    I feel like there is no F2P comp to hit these defenses safely. Probably both would be best hitten with some type of preset team like Bolverk Amelia or JLH. For the first I cannot come up with an comp except using Tesa +2. The second seems Lushenable to me and kill Narsha with Mihyang
sweet fiber
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#5 team is fine would have to see replay

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#7 kiki is tanky, can't lushen unless you have miri

rugged elk
sweet fiber
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in current meta there's really not any place lulu is used, tetra always seems to be better

sweet fiber
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ideally with some op ld cleave like neph tiana but even standard cp tiana should have a very high win rate

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second one you can lushen

timid estuary
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just wanna make sure: people who run multiple same offenses just swap runes right

sweet fiber
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for the most part especially at higher levels, yes

rugged elk
sweet fiber
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gotta make everything bruiserish and not just pure damage. for example my cp is also on vio

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byung has high 1v3 potential and you will not kill him even with landing def break cp + tiana combo

rugged elk
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Gotcha, I was thinking about CP on violent with a critR build. But need to rerune to check if I can run it first on critD, if not then it will be on critR

rugged elk
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Siege today wasn't the most difficult and went 9-1. Happy with most of the attacks, however still a few problems. Gonna do the explanation tomorrow

sudden dome
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It's much better

rugged elk
sudden dome
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Fuse

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You should

rugged elk
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Is it worth to fuse?

sudden dome
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It's very comfortable counter

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Ofc

rugged elk
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Hmm okay

sudden dome
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That's our main counter

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It feels great and works well vs Moore variant too

rugged elk
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Yeah fair

sudden dome
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Like for f2p it's the main one

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100% you should be fusing XF for this - it's very straightforward & does not require excellent runes to be a ~90%+ counter

rugged elk
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Bit skeptical cuz till now I havent found an use for him, but gonna fuse him

sudden dome
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So like

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I think CV has an 85% winrate with the counter overall
With
Me having to yell at people 30-40% of the time to fix builds

..if that gives an idea

rugged elk
sudden dome
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It's very very very rare we have losses

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With proper builds + piloting

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You kill tesa first

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S1 -> s3 xf

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You have double cleanse

rugged elk
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Okay yeah, I imagine like all except yeonhwa on 239 tick, all 100res. Both XF and Lulu on vio/will

sudden dome
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XF does not need any res. lulu go 100 res, 239 tanky.

rugged elk
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Oh ok

sudden dome
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Just stack def hard on xf

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High add'ls

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You can go +fire too

rugged elk
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So smt like feng?

sudden dome
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Once tesa dies it's over

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Similar style yes

rugged elk
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Okay gotcha

sudden dome
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Again it's not perfect but it feels a lot better than tesa yh tetra

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If you don't have great runes especially

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I think tesa yh tetra feels much better with excellent runes

rugged elk
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Yeah it feels a bit wonky for me, definitely a rune problem. Was gonna write the reflection tomorrow

sudden dome
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Like just in general the counter doesn't feel great to use with low runes

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Whereas

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This one functions fine on pretty mediocre runes, you just need a tanky lulu

rugged elk
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Gotcha

sudden dome
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Yh shield will is ideal

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It feels really good to use honestly

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Its felt a lot worse to use tesa yh tetra for me

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I think

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We have

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Maybe one or two losses total where piloting + builds were correct with this counter

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In >130 hits

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I know this because I've reviewed all of them

rugged elk
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That sounds very good

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New tasks for the weekend

sweet fiber
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the rune disparity thing is an interesting theory, i mean i was going to say

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we have no issue with using tesa

sudden dome
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most of CV can't run 286 tetra

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we stopped running it all together

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we just couldn't get it to be consistent enough, even with people running proper builds, i had some losses with it too

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so i dunno maybe skill issue

sweet fiber
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what do the losses look like

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286 tetra is ideal but 239 tetra shouldn't make this unviable

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if people are at the level they belong in then the defs your hitting shouldn't be runed extremely well either

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do you run full shield/will?

sudden dome
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CV is kinda weird because we are way too coordinated and have awful accounts

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so we kinda

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play in higher siege we belong in a large amount of the time
but this was also, what, 4 months ago? so i dunno it's been a long time

rugged elk
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I’m running 286 Tetra

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Tested a bit with our own defenses

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The problem with the offense is when Clara strips both will off tesa and yeonwha (and stuns her) followed by armor break on Tesa

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And then enemy Tesa pretty almost kills my Tesa with an extra proc

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But pretty much in all other cases I win

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Specifically that strip into armor break from Sav followed by Tesa just kills me

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Havent found the issue where Tetra outright gets killed (sure with 3+ procs of Sav)

sweet fiber
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do you have shield and is tesa -fire

rugged elk
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And that sequence does actually happens a fair bit with a bit of testing

rugged elk
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I also think its a bit of a rune issue

sweet fiber
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no reason not to have shield when you're using yeonhwa

rugged elk
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Yh definitely, gonna fix that asap

sweet fiber
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with this team since you're running tesa lead

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i feel like it's a waste to not go for max res on tesa too

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you can lower atk and acc

rugged elk
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Hmmm thats pretty reasonable yeah

sweet fiber
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no one is building res on this def

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clara is likely super high acc

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but sav with the def break

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no way she's 85 acc

rugged elk
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I havent found any Sav with 85 acc, mostly jumping around 30-60acc

sweet fiber
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exactly

rugged elk
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But that suggestion of max res Tesa is very interesting

sweet fiber
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adding shield to this team greatly reduces chance of clara stunning things

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runing your tesa smarter to deal with your only loss condition (def break + tesa procing on him) will greatly increase your chance there too

rugged elk
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Yh

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I was too focussed on losing Tetra tbh

sweet fiber
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losing tetra is possible too

rugged elk
# rugged elk

Little bit of a siege reflection. Most offenses are pretty standard. Mostly want to highlight gt #2 and #7:

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  1. Very bad. This was already scouted multiple times and I know that Deva is on a swift build. The choice was here to possibly outspeed with Gin Dova Lushen or bruiser
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But guildies lost the speed battle of +210 Eshir with Mihyang lead, thus went the bruiser route here

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Dongbaek initially seems pretty smart here, good use of atk break and Tetra is also fine. Manipulate Martina into hitting Dongbaek. However, in hindsight this was not good cuz the twins dealt way too much dmg. Also Crawler was not right here

sweet fiber
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wait what

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the deva outsped a +210 eshir with mihyang lead?

rugged elk
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Yeah…

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At least the guildie said +210 eshir

sweet fiber
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thats like what, +230 deva?

rugged elk
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Oh wait, it was galleon lead

sweet fiber
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tbh if you scout this as swift id still say the solution is to cleave it

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just find someone a bit faster...

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+210 on an eshir is weak

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deva is 103 base

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i don't really care to think of a bruiser answer as cleave is much easier any way you go about it

rugged elk
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True, due to that outspeed I just immediately went the bruiser route and how to attack it

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But cleave is just way easier

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So smt like Mihyang Eshir +1 would do the trick here

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Like Kaito and snipe Deva

sweet fiber
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why kaito

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use a ignore def snipe

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can also do praline kabilla lushen, standard galleon bernard julie, etc

rugged elk
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Hmm gotcha

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#7 decent I guess. Tbh I never got an idea to tackle Sylvia defenses except using Haegang or outright outspeed

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In this case I could speed contest against liu mei (liu mei was in this case violent)

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But went with this bruiser-ish type with verad and anavel. This still could go wrong where despair Liu Mei could lock down my offense

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Actually, Haegang would be good here

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And I pretty much stole this offense from someone in general chat

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Unfortunately I cant really test this more as we dont have Sylvia defenses

sweet fiber
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can't really generalize sylvia defs but against this one with theo, leo for turn 2 is popular

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with a support like riley and then whatever bruiser like feng, diana, xing, etc

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for the offense you used

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verad anavel is ok but you need a more supportish 3rd, most common actually is nana in case something gets blown up turn 1

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tyron does same thing as verad so its a bit of a waste

rugged elk
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Most of the attacks are pretty standard and already discussed in my previous thread or this thread. Not the most difficult siege tbh, went 10-0.

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  1. Standard. Outspeed cleave
  2. Good. We discussed this one siege ago to simply cleave this
  3. Standard. Outspeed where we focus to kill Zeratu and snipe 2nd life of Sav
  4. Standard.
  5. Decent. Probably could be a better offense here. Still susceptible to Celia sleep here and acc/res check due to bombs. Bit scared of cleaving this where 24 lead with Celia base speed. Still could do something like Mihyang Eshir +1 or Mihyang Adriana +1
  6. Decent. Worse than Lushen cleave in my opinion, I like Julie here more than GDK but unfortunately dont have another Julie ready. Pretty much same concept but then the assumption that Garo can solo the other two (not really clean). In hindsight, Garo Racuni Convenant/any sniper would be better than GDK. However still prefer the other two cleaves (Lushen and Julie)
  7. See above.
  8. Standard.
  9. Standard.
  10. Decent. I could probably manipulate AI better here with Malite/Windy or a light tank +2 water. However, I think this is still pretty decently safe. Thought about outspeeding, but same issue with that Celia where Yeonhong has a high base speed. If I want to cleave, which probably is pretty good here (snipe Yeonhong followed by Carcano), it would be the same as with #5
sudden dome
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Full will swift mihyang moving first

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Your loss condition is an insane op cracked vio Celia that outspeeds you on swift

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Or carcano proccing like 6 times I guess

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You could lose maybe if you get rune checked by Bombay but I don't think anyone builds bombat -wind here lol

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But even if Bombay lives you still have a good chance of winning I feel since he will to straight for dova

rugged elk
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I just always assume swift in the worst case

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for cleave comps

sudden dome
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Think about what I just said

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I explained it specifically because this does not lose to swift celia

sudden dome
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What happens if it's swift celia

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What does that stop if it's built this way

rugged elk
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ngl, I really havent thought about making Mihyang that way

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Okay thats really insightfull

sudden dome
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Ok so you see

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Dova strip sleep

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Mihyang s3

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Dova resurge

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Win

rugged elk
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you're right

sudden dome
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Mihyang strip sleep

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Dova resurge

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Win

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It does not work if mihyang is not moving first

sudden dome
rugged elk
sudden dome
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It's just a funny

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Thing because

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The way it works is so hilarious

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It's clearly supposed to not be lushenable right

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Swift Celia instant lise

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But then there's a funny build that completely makes that not work

rugged elk
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yeah thats exactly why I was a bit confused on making Mihyang on will. I was like wtf are you on haha.

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but now it makes sense

sudden dome
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You probably

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Can do without mihyang will but I dunno I would just to bring an extra safety check so if your opponent is cracked +35 speed vio on all slots

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You have a safety net

rugged elk
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indeed

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gonna post my thursday siege tomorrow

sudden dome
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My siege still sux because we got trolled on register by accident lmao

rugged elk
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need some sleep, functioning on 2h sleep dead

sudden dome
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GN my fren :)

rugged elk
rugged elk
sudden dome
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I hope I didn't just leak tech

rugged elk
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ehhhhh

sudden dome
rugged elk
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fast delete

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I know all now haha

sudden dome
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Lmao

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XD

rugged elk
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ok nvm gonna post today matches

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but reflections are tomorrow

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I promise

rugged elk
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Finally got some time to do explanations.

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  1. Decent. Changed Tyron to Nana for more protection as suggested
  2. Standard. Outspeed to kill
  3. Decent. Using Feng into TL is not that great. However I still thought this was a decent attempt. Otherwise I would have used Tesa +2 here
  4. Bad. Biggest threat here is carcano which we need to tank/snipe. The obvious cleave route would be Mihyang Adriana +1. With tanking I'm a bit more scared as Windy gives so Celia sleeps me alot. In this case Malite would be better with Tetra and Vigor. In hindsight I could also do Malite with Camilla and Chow/Tetra here as I havent used my Camilla yet. Maybe I'm still missing something
  5. Decent-Bad. The Iris could've been build on dmg and possibly snipe in combination with Nana. Just Camilla this would have been fine
  6. Good. Vigor and Iunu always target Rina here where I kill Dark Ciri asap. Some guildies used a super weird comp with Malite Lulu Vigor (found this very bad as strip into armor break by Vigor and Iunu S2 into proc would result in 3 vs 2 turn 1)
  7. Above
  8. Good, But like the roid variant more here in case Dark Ciri goes nuts and gets Logan low. Iunu can then focus Logan
  9. Good. Just cleave
  10. Good-Decent. Like Julie cleave more. I could have gotten outsped here as I race with 3 speed advantage. Also thought about Lushening, but it could've been a Lushen trap
rugged elk
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A little bit side tracking from usual, but I need some advice on the nat 5 pick event. I already have all the 10 mentioned in ongoing event. I'm purely focussed on siege and yeah I'm gonna wait till the end of the event, but I need some priority advice which to get

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The most important that I'm missing (in my opinion) are:

  • Fire: Nora (for def) and Helena
  • Water: Amelia, not really important but honorable mention is Chandra
  • Wind: Odin, honorable mention is Zen
    Based on my experience in siege till now, I havent used Bolverk as much due to missing Amelia which is very key against some defenses. Prio now is as followed: Amelia > Odin > Nora/Helena
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I cant really justify taking dupe Camilla or Leo tbh

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@sweet fiber sorry for the ping. But what is your take?

sweet fiber
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do you have a swarfarm somewhere

rugged elk
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Wait a sec, lemme make it

rugged elk
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There are some monsters in storage which for some reason are not in the json file, the only important one is Sonia (just pulled her today)

sweet fiber
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i'd take odin

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he's one of the best def mons and usable on offense too

rugged elk
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yeah I thought so

sweet fiber
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nora is an option and not a big pick

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i just like odin better

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helena is offense only not worth

rugged elk
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Tbh I need a second Leo to justify Helena

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But yeah Odin seems all round good

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Thanks!

sweet fiber
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you can use aaliyah in place of amelia with bolv

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its pretty much the same thing

rugged elk
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check, I recently got her so I have mainly been using her in combination with Feng and Leo

sweet fiber
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id rather use her with bolv and then find something else to use with feng and/or leo

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like tetra

sudden dome
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I feel like we just want anavel lead right

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You take a turn and they lose

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I dunno maybe you are fine with just Verad lead but I feel like cdmg Verad is destroyer of worlds

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#4 is definitely sus

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I think going into Celia with no tetra and only one single target cleanse is crazy

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A solution isn't exactly dawning upon me though in all honesty

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Maybe tractor windy tetra. I think that is probably decent. Dunno maybe it's too hard through Celia but I don't think so

rugged elk
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#4 is like super duper sus

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My brain didnt function there

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Wouldnt like Cami and Tetra with Malite work there?

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Dont really know if there’s a good f2p counter to that

sudden dome
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Uhhh

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Probably??

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It doesn't sound great but yeah

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Maybe like

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I dunno I think tractor windy tetra is free

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Just run cdmg tractor and call it a day

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Like carc can win always yes but I dunno I think it's pretty safe

rugged elk
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Was a pretty difficult siege in my opinion. Its been a long time where I actually felt that I need to build some more dupes as I was running out of options. Still went 10-0 here

rugged elk
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  1. Decent. Biggest threat is Tetra getting blown up. But felt less scary than the Mihyang Cichlid Dark PT variant.
  2. Decent. If Dark Onyx wasnt nerfed, I would've used him here. I was not really sure which dark tank to use between Chacha Jultan or Dias. I did not went for Dias as this def as I wanted a bit more utility than just a plain tank. If there was a Danu, I would have used Dias for the extra anti-crit passive. Also I would have liked Tetra here instead of Racuni tbh. Need some advice on how to choose the right 'dark' tank in the right situation.
  3. Above.
  4. Decent. Still a bit scary here. Abigail armor break into s3 could block Chacha S1 shield followed by DMG Eshir. Dark tank +2 wind seems very logical here. Same question as typed in #2 how to choose the right dark tank.
  5. Above
  6. Good. I think this is a good team. Went Tesa > Geldnir > Brita here. Was the most scared for Oblivion Windy into Tesa armor break and proc to kill Windy. I think this is the right order to kill.
  7. Good. No speed contest here and I can reset both Theo and Iunu
  8. Decent-Bad. Not really sure how to do this tbh. I think Windy is still too good here to get shield for the team and negate Clara's armor break. Tetra also seems more logical than Racuni here. I could possibly just TTW. This is where I'm feeling to make an extra Windy as I only have 4 atm.
  9. Good. Team is good, however I got outsped by Water Steel Commander here. Got really lucky where he used the wrong skill. Did not give Adriana the fastest swift set due to lacking a tuned DD set. In hindsight I maybe should give her the best swift set and make Sonia tuned on less attack/dmg (I can do it). Is there a way to bruiser this? I cant really find a solution where I could just plainly survive a 40k bomb from John followed by Seara
#
  1. Bad. If I swap Malite with Windy (did not have anymore dupes left), it would've been way better. It took a long time, but Tractor Cami pretty much kills this
sweet fiber
#

you need to build kunites

#

usable without skillups too

#

it will make all those 4* much safer to bruiser

rugged elk
#

Hmm

#

I just have 1 kunite available, so missing a lot unfortunately

rugged elk
#

It has been a little while

#

The past 2 sieges were not difficult and all comps already have known counters. So I did not upload them here

#

However today was a very difficult siege with definitely some misplays

#

I went 7-3 today

#
  1. Decent. It will take a while, but it is a very safe offense
  2. Decent. There could be a small speed contest here, but this should be fine. I should have made Mihyang the fastest here as suggested by Therion to eliminate the sleep of Celia, need to rerune this offense in that special occasion.
  3. Good. First time that I lost against this with Malite Lulu Vigor. Still need to see the replay, but I definitely need to rerune my Lulu here and possibly make Vigor on 286 tick. Atm Vigor is 239 tick
  4. Bad. This should've been a Leo Feng angle. My thought is that I can easily outspeed and reset Theo here. Risk is still that Byungchul 1 vs 3 here (but I'm willing to take that). However the problem here was that I did not reset Theo and Theo + Byung killed me
  5. Decent. I pretty much tilted from here due to both losses. I chose Tetra here because Lulu kept getting stunned and could not do anything. However that is due to not good runes (no 100 res on lulu which is very bad) and I need to rerune Lulu
#
  1. Decent. I havent really experimented with Delphoi yet and compared her to Triana. I think Delphoi is pretty good here with her s2 for extra safety for Kinki. However Triana is still better due to everyone focusses Chacha. Maybe I should have done a better +2 to distribute the dmg more.
  2. Good-Decent. Better than #6
  3. Same as #7
  4. Decent-Bad. This is where I'm a bit stuck. I think I have used this offense a few times for this defense and found good success. However this time everyone just focusses Malite and died to not enough heals. There are a few problems which I found:
    First, maybe racuni is better here to distribute dmg.
    Second, Tetra is not on 286 tick atm and therefore there probably is not enough healing to sustain. I still think Kunite and Windy is still good here. I dont want to cleave this offense because you can easily trap Lushens and swift Vigor is always a threat
  5. Good. Double snipe Feng and Zerath
#

uhh, for some reason I cant watch my replay anymore for #3

#

I cant scroll down further in the tower

#

I didnt know there was a max

sudden dome
#

Guillame does way too much dmg

#

Carc hongyeon moira

rugged elk
#

So you pretty much snipe guacamole first turn

#

followed by carc

sudden dome
#

Copper Imesety chacha free

sweet fiber
#

you may be getting rune gapped a bit in this siege, your teams aren't that bad

#

show your builds on 9?

rugged elk
#

Tetra should be on 286 tick honestly

#

cuz wasted speed here which couldve been in hp and def if on 239

rugged elk
#

but yeah copper makes sense

sudden dome
orchid wave
#

i think kunite and windy should be on a higher tick

sweet fiber
#

yea get tetra to 286 tick, get some skillups too

#

windy definitely does not need higher tick, you can consider it on kunite but its not a big deal

#

you should try to get more hp on kunite though, don't get fooled by kunite def scaling

#

at his core he's still a tank and he'll be more tanky with the balance of hp/def more towards hp like a regular mon

#

for example i rune my kunite triple hp

#

also if you can kunite is still optimal on vio rather than broken

#

you have a lot of extra acc on him

rugged elk
rugged elk
sweet fiber
#

will is not important

#

i purposely do not put will or res on kunite

#

because i want him to get def broken and to take hits

#

he already has protection from automatically getting into gargoyle form

#

destroy is nice if you can get it

rugged elk
#

Makes sense

#

At the moment I have it build on 205 tick, that seems fine to me or does it really need 239 tick?

sudden dome
rugged elk
sudden dome
#

Where defense?

#

I usually run 100 res kunite but I can understand not doing so as well

rugged elk
#

Hmmm

sudden dome
#

I mean for sure more HP but can we get defense too?

rugged elk
#

Yeah fair

sudden dome
#

Nah

#

I'm tripping for sure like

#

It's violent

#

I'm just so used to gargs having more stats since

#

It's sort of a recent thing to do violent haha

rugged elk
#

Ngl its my first time hearing kunite on vio

#

Gonna test this against some vritra defenses

#

And maybe making it like 239

sweet fiber
#

anything that doesn't get worse off on vio, is better off on vio

#

there's only a few cases where vio makes a monster worse like rina that can proc away her shield, malite that procs away his form and doesn't get hit to get the cd reduction, string masters that want their song to keep playing, etc

#

but kunite on vio means more sustain and more cc, so its a good thing

sweet fiber
rugged elk
#

I will be posting 2 sieges in the coming hour. They weren't the most difficult, however I think I'm getting a bit to lax with some offenses. Mainly in cleaving without a big speed difference

#

It will be mentioned in the reflection tho

#
  1. Decent. Snipe Eladriel followed by Maxi. However this very well could be a trap Eladriel which makes this an automatic loss. Probably Camilla would be way safer here.
  2. Good. Cant really find a good way to cleave this due to 2nd life of Xiana. Probably could use lushen and then Mihyang snipe, however it is very likely that Chandra + Zen can 2 vs 3 here
  3. Decent. I think this safe. Maybe I dont have to use Camilla here and use smarter manipulation of AI. Smt like Dias Vigor Tetra should do the trick I think. But there is still a chance that Eivor goes nuts
  4. Good. Bruisering this feels very hard, and therefore cleaving seems the only 'safe' option. I think is good here
  5. Decent. Same as #4 regarding bruisering is hard. It still can be the case where this is very very tanky and my Julie cannot cleave this, but how likely is this?
  6. Decent. I think Kunite is not needed here, and dark tank + 2 water/wind is very good. Cleaving is a no good cuz I cannot contest. Maybe a smarter choice of +2 water/wind is even better?
  7. Terrible. I think I tried this with Kunite Tetra Windy before, but didnt found it very safe (this was before Kunite was on vio). So I tried something new, but it just doesnt make sense here. I saw some offenses with Jultan Lulu Shamann where you pretty much snipe with Shamann. But still not sure how to tackle this safely as there is not really a good Light tank.
  8. Good. Vigor and Misty goes on Dias and I kill Ciri here with Logan. I think Delphoi makes this a tad bit safter than Triana due to her s2 reset and oblivion. But correct me if I'm wrong here
  9. see #5
  10. Bad. I did not have Moria yet which was suggested by Therion, but I have her 2nd awakened yesterday
#
  1. Decent. Thank for suggesting vio Kunite jx9. The extra healing on Kunite really makes a difference. However I still have a question here, I build my windy on tick 239 with tanky stats and artifacts depends on the offense. So for Carcano I use -fire and if not I use add dmg. Is there a case where I make critD Windy and would it be safer here because only Clara and Vritra are hitting Windy here.
  2. Bad. Jeogun can actually make Windy/Camilla disappear and from there it could be tricky due to oblivion. I think Julie here is a lot safer as I still have speed advantage and 1 vs 3 Tesa which is very good odds.
  3. Good. No direct armor break on Tesa so I can tank enough here with Racuni and Rina.
  4. Good. Speed advantage and kill Odin twice here. However I do not have an idea how to hit this multiple times because Adriana just offers so much due to her 3 buffs which makes Clara s3 less valuable. So exchanging Adriana for Kahli/Hraesvelg is not really the same. Do you have any advice here jx9?
  5. Decent-bad. Not gonna lie, not really sure how to hit Mihyang Zen +1 where the +1 is a ld5 with lots of dmg. Bruisering/tanking is difficult due to potential armor break and lots of dmg from Mananan. So my only logical approach is to cleave. However I cannot think of a good speed advantage in combination safely 3 vs 2 approach. I can only think atm of using Praline Kabilla Lushen to safely outspeed this due to better speed advantage. Am I missing something here?
  6. Standard. Double snipe here. I know that therion likes the Eshir Bethony variant more
  7. Bad. I could remember a reviver + Shiwha for beating Monte defenses. However it probably is not in combination with Elucia. I think you need double reviver here to beat this somewhat safely. Also the problem is that I build both Elucia and Shiwha on 239 instead of 286 (betta is on 286)
#
  1. Decent. Suicide comp to beat this seems pretty fine here
  2. Good. Outspeed here easily and just cleave
  3. Decent. Bit more tricky than #9 because there is a chance that I do not kill both Truffle and Yen which could solo me. However I still think this is pretty safe
jagged remnant
# rugged elk
  1. I prefer a -dark tetra instead of aaliyah here. Chandra will focus aaliyah which means she can get stunned and not keep you safe from zen debuffs. Tetra would cleanse passively.
  2. & .9 Chandra has insane base hp and zen is wind, so it only takes a trap ongy or offwill ongy that you miss defbreak on for this to lose with julie.
rugged elk
#

Yeah that makes sense actually. I'm preset warrioring that Feng Ayaya Leo offense a bit too much

#

That is what I'm also scared of regarding Julie'ing the Chandra Zen + 1. I cannot find a reliable cleave to do this except possibly Mirinae. And even then I dont like it due to speed racing with same base

#

I could possibly Lushen it, but then we pretty much got the same problem with a Lushen trap which is very likely

jagged remnant
# rugged elk

.2 is really risky, you have no way to get rid of oblivion on windy and there's an atk buff tesa + scrolls yeah
.7 this should win most of the time tbh, could be a rune mistake/diff or piloting mistake

#

if you take that approach on .7 you want to sleep & freeze eshir and monte, and then focus ciri down with adds. damage (but yeah it is rune intensive, you want to be 286, tanky, good artifacts)

sudden dome
rugged elk
rugged elk
sudden dome
#

Garo draco sonia

#

It's good

rugged elk
#

Ahhh

#

That makes more sense indeed

orchid wave
#

Crit dmg windy if your runes allow for it

orchid wave
jagged remnant
#

garo draco sonia does have that risk of getting no atk buff on sonia and then odin being a sonia trap right

#

tho realistically it wouldn't happen much at this level

rugged elk
jagged remnant
#

Kinda hard to say, there's a huge variety of accounts. But generally it's less scary yeah and you can afford to lose to some traps as it's not expected you're near 100wr

rugged elk
#

and sorry for the ping

sweet fiber
#

your best bet if you want to bruiser it is to use combinations of tanky wind nat 5 bruisers + triana, like byung elad diana xing riley ritesh etc

#

i still recommend cleaving it only though

#

and you can cleave it with a number of different things not just mihyang adriana sonia

#

you already mentioned draco yourself, draco works almost just as well as adriana

#

and you dont have to use sonia, any ignore def or even something like lag/taor is great

#

its not like odin is a super tank

#

we do regular lushen and julie teams into it all the time too

#

and no worries feel free to ping me anytime

#

you have legitimate questions and you're putting effort into it

rugged elk
#

Hmm okay yeah that makes sense, I'm mostly a bit scared with draco in cases the Odin is a trap where you really need an attack buff.

#

But that probably will cancel a bit out cuz you can rune a slower kahli on more dmg due to attack bar boost

rugged elk
#

It was a quick siege today

#

Went 10-0 with pretty good hits in middle g3. Overall very happy with the attacks

#

SS will follow shortly

#
  1. Good. Rina tanks both Vigor and Iunu here and we kill Dark Ciri first. Not much to say here
  2. See #1
  3. Decent. Pretty much also standard. This g3 guild is famous for running this defense for years even though Kinki is nerfed. Couldnt hit this more than 2 times cuz I have no more logans and I find Roid not a really great option. Copper Chacha is also good here I think. Wasnt there also a good comp with Suiki Chacha Lulu/Triana? Our guild tested Olivia Copper Chacha and it seems super safe for now
  4. Standard
  5. Standard. This is already discussed extensively in this thread. Having the adjustments made it became a lot safer. I'm too lazy to actually make XF but I really should. I really thought this defense would be phased out somewhere now, but it still is used a lot
  6. Standard.
  7. See #5
  8. Decent. Not a terrible attempt. I would actually switch Feng here for XZ and ayaya for Tetra. The stun from Clara can potentially lose me this attack using ayaya
  9. See #5
  10. See #3
rugged elk
#

Also need some help as I wasnt really sure how to hit this:

  • Moore Kiki Byungchul
#

Just like a rule of thumb for me, pretty much always cleave Kiki. However with Byung it makes it very difficult. So the only thing I could come up with with reasonable-ish winrate is Tiana CP

#

But Moore could be on swift and I lose the speed race here

#

Bruisering this seems very hard. Like I can Juno Vero I guess, but that doesnt sound very good

sweet fiber
#

yea your analysis is correct. best to cleave it with lds like neph tiana but galleon cp tiana is the best you can do

#

if you want to try to bruiser you do vero tetra tesa

cunning vectorBOT
#
Iunu (Wind Anubis)

Wikia

1. Pierce Soul

Attacks the enemy twice, with each attack having a 30% chance to disturb the enemy's HP recovery for 2 turns.

Levels

Effect Rate +5%
Effect Rate +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +15%

Multiplier

2.0*{ATK} x2

2. Brand of Hell

Attacks the enemy 3 times, with each attack having a 50% chance to grant Oblivion and Branding effects for 2 turns. The damage increases as the enemy's HP status decreases. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

{ATK}*(4.4 - 2.2*{Target Current HP %}) x3

3. Underworld King's Return(Passive)

At the moment of death, revives with 30% HP and full Attack Bar. In addition, uses [Brand of Hell] on the enemy that killed you. The Attack Power also increases by 100% each whenever revived. (Accumulates up to 3 times) [Automatic Effect] (Reusable in 8 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

provided by SWARFARM
sudden dome
#

Oblivion into cdmg vigor

#

Branded def broken Rina can die

#

It's multihits too

#

I feel like this can lose

#

It's not bad but I'm concerned about that

sweet fiber
#

is there something that's much better? i dunno i haven't thought about it much i haven't seen the def before

#

but in general it's ok to use things like rina into iunu, windy into tesa

#

as long as you have other support

#

these units are still built as tanks, even if they lose their passive protection they still should hold up just with stats

#

also i forgot this myself too but rina's s2 actually has a cleanse now too

sudden dome
#

The goal is we're killing dark ciri first?

#

Yeah it's true. But I'm concerned just because 3 harmful effects

#

Def break + brand on +water sounds scary to me but I don't have a much better idea, I was just pondering

rugged elk
#

Generically speaking, most vigors and Iunu dont have 85 acc, maybe at most 60ish

#

So there’s a good chance at least one of the debuffs will not land

#

And with Rina’s s2 cleanse its I think safer than using other water tanks

sudden dome
#

That's true

#

I don't dislike it at all

#

I just am concerned

rugged elk
#

Yeah same

#

I think this should be relatively safe like 95ish wr

#

I know a guildie that lost with that comp, but he just piloted so wrong and tried to kill Iunu here first

sudden dome
rugged elk
#

Pretty disappointed today in myself with some offenses. It was relatively a pretty easy siege, but made some stupid mistakes. Went 9-1 which easily could've with 2 or 3 losses

rugged elk
#
  1. Standard
  2. Good. Probably the Lushen variant is better, but this should also be fine as Shun is not really build on tank unlike dark ongyouki
  3. Decent. Cant really decide if Tetra > Ayaya due to potential Iris stuns. Ayaya with def buff makes the team really tanky but doesn't do anything if she is stunned. I feel like Tetra could still be killed somehow
  4. Decent-Bad. I know Susano Bastet Stella is really really good here and I wanted to use it, but looking through my box I did not have Susano. So for next time I will be using Susano for this def
  5. Decent. Both light units go on Dias and Byung goes on Riley/Dias. There is no armor break here and destroy Tesa does a good job shutting them down.
  6. Bad Bad Bad. In my head it makes sense that atk buff Sonia could kill Manon with no def lead. Oh what was I wrong. Very bad team in general tbh. I think the best way is to double wind water tank here. Like Momo/Roid/Dominic Riley Super tank Rina.
  7. Standard
  8. Good. Better than Julie here. Good speed advantage and kill Sav twice
  9. Super bad. I know that you can use this for Mihyang Eshir +light. But you can definitely not use this here. Armor break and strip absolutely kill me. Dark tank + 2 water is good enough? Like Dias Tetra +1. Not really sure still here.
  10. Decent-Bad. I havent fought this in a long time and forgot what I usually use here. This is not super terrible but there should be a better comp here.
rugged elk
#

There wont be a reflection today as I've fought the two guilds already with the same defenses with standard offenses

#

I'm not sure if its just unlucky but I still lost to Clara Sav Tesa and therefore went 9-1

#

I used Tesa Tetra Yeonwha as standard

#

But I got blown up T1: Clara stripped stunned Yeonwha > Sav armor breaks Tetra and Yeonhwa > Sav S2 on Yeonwha due to more harmfull effects > Tesa S2 Kills Yeonwha

#

So pretty much 2 vs 3 turn 2 which I lost

#

Is there any way to mitigate this? Like make Yeonhwa even tankier (already on -fire)?

#

@sweet fiber Is this just rng, or could I prevent this somehow?

sweet fiber
#

what does your arti look like?

rugged elk
#

-22 fire

#

And rightside is s2 acc

sweet fiber
#

its rng but you definitely have a lot of room to make yeonhwa much tankier

#

like this is mine

#

the runes aren't crazy, 5 of them are just hero runes and given most of it is not premium sets it should be achievable for anyone

rugged elk
#

Sounds like a rune issue, should be able to make it tankier

#

Thanks!

sudden dome
#

0_0

#

i really think you should try XF out

#

it feels very good to use

sudden dome
#

but i think

#

i dunno

#

i'm sure it probably evens out

#

between def lead and res lead

rugged elk
#

she doesnt need speed

sudden dome
#

no

#

it's not that she doesn't need speed

#

she should not have speed

rugged elk
#

true

#

thats where I was wrong

#

but yea I'm fusing XF now

sudden dome
#

we don't use tetra btw with the xf variant

#

it's xf lulu yh

rugged elk
#

Cuz I still need more units to counter this defense as I'm seeing still a lot atm

sudden dome
#

just to make sure there's no confusion

rugged elk
#

XF doesnt really need skill-ups right?

#

more of a luxury?

sudden dome
#

not at all

#

doesn't matter really

rugged elk
#

okok

#

It really feels bad to lose to this defense ngl

#

when there are pretty good counters like what you suggested

sudden dome
#

i mean

#

tesa yeonhwa tetra is obviously a useable decent counter

rugged elk
#

but sometimes rng,

sudden dome
#

i don't like it, i've talked a bit about how i don't like it but it's obviously not bad

#

XF can lose to RNG too

#

we're looking at something ~92%ish

#

do you have taor

rugged elk
#

nope

sudden dome
#

uhh

rugged elk
#

only the wind variant

sudden dome
#

there's others

#

sec

rugged elk
#

Today was a very difficult siege. The defenses didnt look super difficult, but there were 2 tourney guilds and I felt severely outruned. Went 8-2 which I will take tbh

#
  1. Good. A similar defense a few sieges ago but then it was Kinki instead of Vritra. It felt very safe as there was not immediate armor break here and I kill them 1 by 1
  2. Decent. Typical bruiser comp into this defense. However, Eladriel got killed before I could kill Odin here and it went south from that point. I think it maybe is a rune issue? I have 239 Elad, 179 Diana and 286 Triana. Diana probably needs at least 205 tick I think
  3. Decent-Bad. XF would probably be better here. Will be done in the weekend for fusing
  4. Standard
  5. Decent-Bad. We discussed Clara instead of Carcano where we can use this. However, with Carcano here I think this is not great at all. Double killing Odin still can result in a loss
  6. Bad. With no Sonia and Adriana you could also use smt like Garo Draco +1. However this was not good at all (or I just got rune gapped here). Idea is to kill Adriana where Garo can solo, but I got outsped and therefore my Lagmaron couldnt crit and kill Adriana. I should've done an ignore defense unit here without the condition of outspeeding.
  7. Good-Decent. Got this comp from someone where you kill Adriana and solo with Garo. Same idea as #6
  8. Bad. This was not good at all. Riley got killed pretty early here unfortunately. Tried to make Byung focus Rina here. I think Tesa is great here and probably should've used Tetra and Windy instead of Riley. At least Windy is a bit more protected than Riley here
  9. Standard
  10. Good. Guildies used Dozer Imesity Chacha here which is not bad. But you need to rerune Dozer and Imesity on double will to avoid armor breaks of Hwahee. However I think Julie this with fat Lushen set should also do the trick here. Then it pretty much becomes 1 vs 3 in the best case scenario, and 2 vs 3 which I think I should win. Tbh isnt there also a praline julie lushen angle here?
sweet fiber
#

show stats of elad team

#

do you have taor? you can use something like mihyang draco chimera into the carc adriana odin and just kill odin twice. taor is better than lag but it still may be ok even with lag

rugged elk
#

Taor seems better here tho

#

Tbh elad should also be 286 due to his base speed

sweet fiber
# rugged elk

yea i think this is just a rune issue, elad is fine on 239 tick especially since he's the most important mon to keep alive. but he needs to be much tankier. my elad on 239 tick vio/will has over +40k hp (and the runes are not crazy, it's average purple rune quality)

#

agree that diana can be a bit faster to 205 tick, also she doesn't need will. you can even do stat/broken offset to get more stats on her, or nem is ok too

rugged elk
#

Its been a week. Not the most difficult siege but still some stupid mistakes

#
  1. Decent. Not much to say here as I like ayaya here more than Tetra
  2. Decent. Not the greatest. Was thinking about using double wind with Chacha which also could be an option. I think Triana Roid/Windy Chacha would do it better here
  3. Good. Just outspeed with better lead and base. Kill Xiana twice here
  4. Good-Decent. Still a great offense, however a little bit unsure if Lushen is plainly better here as I can probably snipe both Dark and Light unit with Lushen. However they could be a lushen trap
  5. Decent. There probably is a Kunite angle here. But I cant find the right healers in combination with Kunite. Both Tetra and Racuni can be one-shot here. So I used Kinki to force Ciri to attack Kinki with two supports (less likely to get armor broken compared to fire and water)
  6. Bad. Thought that suicide comp probably should be fine and can kill. However I severly overestimated my damage. I should have just cleaved this
  7. Decent. Ngl I still do not like this. I get an advantage of 3~4 speed which is not really big. Probably need to think about Mihyang Eshir + 1 for that extra speed?
  8. Good. Big speed advantage and not super tanky monsters
  9. Good. Just snipe Manon first followed by Artamiel.
  10. Standard. Made Eladriel tankier and Diana on 205 tick. The difference is there as I can feel the turn cycling of Diana more
sweet fiber
#

there's 2 things here making suicide comp weaker (not saying super bad idea, but its definitely something to consider)

#

first is the presence of a fire dd. iunu loses a lot of power if his revive nuke goes into an enemy fire unit and he ends up glancing them and doing nothing

#

second is sustain - suicide comp typically works by you killing off 1 or 2 enemy units quickly, and then you have some bruiser that solos the rest (in your case, perna). but its hard to solo a cadiz, cadiz is the one that will solo you

#

mihyang eshir/adriana is good for outspeeding, you can probably julie it too

rugged elk
#

yeah that makes sense, I think I was also severly underestimating the healing of Cadiz

rugged elk
#

it has been a while ago. Lots of defenses are already discussed and therefore didnt felt the need to include it

#

Still learning how to safely attack some defenses, mainly some byungchuls

#
  1. Standard. Double snipe Odin here
  2. Decent. Still need to figure out the right team for this defense. A lot are using triple wind into these, but I'm not so sure if thats a good thing. Things still can go wrong even with triple wind. At least for this I can divert Ciri and Liesel into tanky Kinki and sustain enough. However, I only have 1 Kinki so I need more ways to attack this. I feel like Kunite really makes sense here, however pairing it with Tetra/Racuni and Windy I dont really like it tbh. Maybe I'm still missing something something cuz Tetra could get armor broken and get killed in 2 turns if Kunite doesnt get armor broken. Need some pointers here
  3. Standard
  4. Good. No speed threat there, no way Giselle or Zeratu are on swift and I can pretty safely just Lushen with +dark
  5. Decent-Bad. Really need to change this into Susano Bastet Stella, however need some skill-ups for Stella and test this
  6. Bad. I feel like Tiana should be possible here. Sure Moore can be swift, but I feel like this isnt bad. However CP really feels out of place here cuz big chance I just dont reset Perna here. Like Liesel should be better right? @sweet fiber Do you suggest using Liesel in this case cuz he still reduces atk bar and do armor break and reset is not that needed
  7. Bad. Not the right triple I feel like, some guildies used Malite Windy Triana/Delphoi. Briand was for extra safety but I'm not so sure
  8. Decent. Changed this Windy into critD and focus Vritra here.
  9. Decent. I feel like this really is Camilla food. Scary thing is low Maxi critR which can potentially screw Camilla over. But it still felt decent. Probably also could Julie this, however I got no speed advantage thus didnt do it here
  10. Decent-Bad. My standard team into Chandra Nora +1 Wind (like Sav). I just got slowly destroyed here by Chandra and Nora. Maybe use Lala instead for extra heals but I felt this should still be decent (possibly could be a rune problem tho, all 239 tick except Rina on 205)?
sweet fiber
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  1. i think your double wind kinki makes sense, i haven't really seen this def that much so not sure what else i would use to turn 2. we would just cleave it every time
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  1. why is praline bad? looks standard
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  1. yea this is where you let the guys with lds use their premium tiana comps
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you're right though cp is too risky here, liesel if you have to

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id consider using bolv amelia windy here too

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  1. you didn't have to use 2 fire, there's no def breaks at all on the enemy side
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and almost always when you bruiser chandra you have to target him first

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so you need non-fire bruisers

rugged elk
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Hmm fair point yeah. Im just scared of 28 lead with Eshir where I do not have speed advantage

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For number 5, therion/scarlet mentioned the other comp because it is safer. Praline prob is still fine tho

sweet fiber
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there's options that give you spd advantage over 28 eshir

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like mihyang kabilla or kroa

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especially against the liesel def, liesel is the main dmg and def break. if you just get him out of the way can 3v2 more safely

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for 5, nahhh there's no way susano bastet stella is safer

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susano bastet stella was the standard like 5 years ago

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it's not nearly as safe, you can easily lose 2v3

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he's just scared that praline doesn't have enough dmg but that's a rune issue that needs to be overcome

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and it's not something unreasonable to overcome

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against no spd threat you can also just do atk lead (cov or claire) instead of praline lead to help

rugged elk
rugged elk
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Siege season is over and I'm pretty happy overall with the results that I got. The first season (previous season) I got a 90.4% wr on high G1/G2 siege.

Playing mostly in G3 and bit of G2 this season, got a wr of 93% which I'm content with. Still lots of learning to do, cuz it feels like the past 2 months it seem like I cleaved way way more than previous season and also the beginning to mid this season. The struggle still is how to tackle defenses that are trappable in multiple ways without prior knowledge. Ty for all the wisdom @sweet fiber the past few months PeepoHeart

sweet fiber
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gz

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finding yourself cleaving more is a good sign

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sometimes you get trapped but you can't expect to have 100% win rate

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as you improve your cleaves you'll find that actually it can be quite hard to truly trap a cleave

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a lot of times even if your cleave gets "trapped", you can still win

rugged elk
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but it feels to me that I shouldnt have won that, or that I'm just lucky

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an example would be Geldnir Adriana Odin

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Killing Odin twice is the play here

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Mihyang Dova Lushen seems to be pretty good here, kill Odin twice (only thing I didnt think of was the idea that Adriana buffs Odin to 5 stacks and comes back with full hp)

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And that could go wrong

sweet fiber
rugged elk
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hmm yea fair

sweet fiber
rugged elk
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Geldnir + Adriana outspeed my Dova, Odin has 2 prior stacks from shield and will

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gets 5 stacks from adriana buff

sweet fiber
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ohhh you're assuming you get outsped

rugged elk
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it actually happened in my case

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but it just wasnt speed tune to Odin snipe

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So I killed Adriana there and first life of Odin whiich resulted in Geldnir and Odin full hp

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Maybe this is just unlucky, but Geldnir was on despair nem, and cut in between my Mihyang snipe and despair stunned my Mihyang

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Luckly I still won tho, but very close

sweet fiber
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oh

rugged elk
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oh I have another question regarding traps and how to deal with it with the initial hit regarding cleaves

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To make it more practical, when you have something like Chandra Eladriel Fei

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I can name a lot of cleaves tackle this. However I feel that this defense can trap the different offenses

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So if you're gonna Sonia this, it could be that Eladriel is Sonia trap (for second hit you can Lushen this as an example). If you want to Lushen this with Mihyang, it could be that you do not have enough dmg on Lushen. If you double snipe with Praline, It could be swift Chandra and speed is around the same. Same with Tiana where Chandra outspeeds and Fei kills

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So how do you go about doing the initial hit when there are multiple ways to trap certain offenses cleave wise?

sweet fiber
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you should double snipe that def. i wouldn't lushen

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praline beth, or mihyang adriana sonia

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praline is racing on about even speeds so you can get outsped but its a decent enough risk to take. no way elad survives beth even if its tanky

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and also unlikely people are actually making elad a sonia trap

sudden dome
rugged elk
rugged elk
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A question regarding building traps. Some traps are pretty straightforward to build, like you can trap Sonia by stacking defense and build your units around so you can kill the offense

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So I was wondering how you would do this for Julie. An example: lets say Im building Clara Vigor Vritra

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I tested a bit with all on vio/will or shield shield will Clara, or vio/nem on Vigor

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In all cases I do survive Julie hits on 239 tick

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However, even if the defense survives it can still be the case the offense wins due to just bernard and galleon if Vigor fails to s2

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So in this case can I assume that surviving is good enough and hopefully win against Julie cleaves if Vigor s2, or do I still need to think more in-depth how to still wins against galleon bernard?

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Cuz I still feel like what you’ve mentioned jx is very true regarding: even if the defense is anti-julie in this case, you still have a good chance to win as an attacker

sweet fiber
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it's just a pure rune quality thing. you still need to rune the def normally with damage, speed, etc not just tankiness

rugged elk
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Cuz I dont solely rely on Julie, I still build dmg gall and critr bernard

sweet fiber
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for example you mentioned shield shield will clara - that's not good

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she still should be despair or vio

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also what speeds are your units? you should still hit 286 tick

rugged elk
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Okay hmm, Ive tried multiple builds and vio/will seems the best

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But I build all on 239

sweet fiber
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see if you can build on 286

rugged elk
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Okok

rugged elk
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It seems to be surviving

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And all are on 286 tick vio/will

sweet fiber
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vigor on vio/nem is still good

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hes tanky enough to survive even with def broken

rugged elk
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Yeaa, I tested a bit with this and concluded for now that I only lose (attack wise) when Vigor doesnt s2. Does it help to put Vritra on despair to potentially stun either gall or Bernard for their 2nd turn?

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Cuz for now vritra on vio/will does not do a lot cuz my rune efficiency is not good enough where I can build it tanky enough, 286 tick and with dmg

sweet fiber
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up to you between vio and despair whatever you have better runes for

rugged elk
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Hmmm ok lemme check

rugged elk
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I have found difficulty tackling the defense below:

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So the thought proces for me was, I want to snipe Giselle asap (dont like to bruiser this at all)

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There are a few cases that I was thinking about: Using tiana, double snipe, or single snipe and then survive 3 vs 2

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I would like to tiana this, however I wouldnt do this without a premium monster which I dont have. CP into this sounds bad

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The same for double snipe, I think most people will just slam praline +2 here. But I find this just risky without premium things like Federica/Ian. Probably couldve done Claire here, but I'm still not entirely sure about that

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Some people just snipe byung with Beth, but that seems fricking risky to me and 1 vs 3 Tesa where praline can tank few hits

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cuz tanky byung can still survive beth

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Then I just thought to snipe Giselle first and then survive 3 vs 2 where Tesa focus Imesity and Byung on Mihyang. With spd lead, I can afford to make Imesity and Mihyang tankier

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And thought that triple will Imesity should do fine (in my head) where I can try kill Tesa before everyone dies

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However I just didnt think enough about Byung stripping will here with 3 buffs and where Imesity just died within 2 turns

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I guess I should've just done praline beth claire/kahli here?

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I'm still not entirely sure, any recommendation or flaws in thinking @sweet fiber

sweet fiber
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I would praline, snipe Giselle and tesa first. Beth Claire is good. Use Claire lead. Safer to go for tesa than byung, because if you leave tesa with a sliver of health it’s no big deal he’ll go for praline and you just clean him up next turn. If you leave byung with a sliver of health you’re in big trouble

rugged elk
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okay yea that makes sense

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would you also change the builds for beth and claire to be a bit tankier?

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or is that just a luxury?

sweet fiber
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claire yes, and it should be a permanent change to her

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you don't have to make her like really tanky, but she needs to have more than base +2448 hp

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beth theres no point

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test claire into low hp byung and make sure that a byung s2 doesn't drop claire to below half hp

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roughly

rugged elk
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thanks for the clarification!

sweet fiber
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i think i have something like +7k hp +350 def on her

rugged elk
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Okay that extra hp really helps a ton

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got her to +7k hp and +400 def, and I can still gem in def/hp for more

rugged elk
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A defense where I had trouble with:

IMG_98CADF1FE740-1.jpeg
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Couldnt really think of a good way to cleave this except premium double snipe/premium Tiana stuff

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Was scared with low Tiana base that i just get outsped here, and I'm not sure if CP is enough as a premium to kill this

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Therefore I used bolverk even though I know Moore could mess up the turn order

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Game plan is to kill Kiki first where I can oblivion them with Tesa. This didnt work out well cuz I pretty much got killed T1 here

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Moore S2 > Kiki S2 (armor break) > Kiki proc S1 > Byung S1 stun Amelia > Byung proc S2 > Tesa > Bolverk > Amelia > Moore S1 (on Amelia) > Moore proc kills Amelia

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I guess Vero Tesa Tetra would've been better here, but I'm not really sure cuz I still feel like I can get T1 killed

sweet fiber
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bolv is fine, but you need a more supportish monster as +1 not tesa

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you can even do another cleanser/immunity like lulu

rugged elk
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Hmm yea, after the fight I was thinking about Lulu/Tetra instead of Tesa