Siege advice Arjun132

[warped saffron]

Can I get some help with counters for Clara, Sav, Tesa. Feels like a well runed one can really mess you up. Also feels harder to counter then the Clara, sav, Theo variation because tesa can oblivion stuff and really mess up racuni + windy counters

I’m assuming that this has been talked about before, but I can’t find it

[teal valve]

1. you can try outspeed

or use haegang with full will team?

[warped saffron]

What is the +2 with haegang?

@languid crater @heavy sluice real quick question. Was this talked about in the bigger thread? I tried searching but can’t find it

[warped saffron]

Btw what would you recommend for the outspeed? Is it like Julie food?

Clara Sav Tesa counter + siege advicd

Clara Sav Tesa counter + siege advice

Another side question. What makes cleave / praline so good? I’ve heard that the meta is shifting to cleaving and that praline is why

But it seems like building cleaves with her is super hard

[runic wagon]

Because shes a booster and speed lead in one slot

and outside of some more unusual options there arent any other units who did that

normally a cleave team has the need for

a booster

an att buffer(or def buffer)

and a speed lead

praline provides 3/3 in one slot

[warped saffron]

Hmm makes sense

I really need to farm giants then

I can’t tune anything to my praline

[warped saffron]

Is if typically double ignore defense for the cleaves?

[runic wagon]

thats the basic one yes

some ppl use a faster booster + praline

[warped saffron]

What’s the less basic? Pair with jabilla?

[runic wagon]

ie praline kabilla

[warped saffron]

Kabilla*

Yeah. That makes sense

[runic wagon]

theres a lot of stuff, some of which i dont want to get into

but in general most praline comps

[warped saffron]

I Guess that practically guarantee’s T1

[runic wagon]

are either praline double dd

ie cov bethony, julie lushen etc

or praline fast booster dd

ie praline kabilla lushen

[warped saffron]

Alright cool

[warped saffron]

2nd question. This thing

Is it mostly just Julie cleave and haegang,

I Guess praline technically works here, right

[teal valve]

tiana poseidon cleave

[runic wagon]

thats a horrible idea

[warped saffron]

No tiana

[runic wagon]

if you want to have a 80% winrate thats a wonderful idea

[warped saffron]

Also. Easy to be outsped, no

[runic wagon]

aside from 24 tiana losing the race to 19 clara

poseidon is outright a shit unit on offense

[warped saffron]

Yeah. My last siege hits on it were both really sketch offenses. I used Leo, tesa, tetra. And that one offense that Gony recommended. But even that one felt unsafe AF

[runic wagon]

if your tiana is on the same rune set as a clara

clara outspeeds by 6 speed

[heavy sluice]

what did gony recommend

this is a tough def. there are no great answers

leo tesa tetra (or lulu instead of tetra, or other wind tanks instead of leo) is going to be your standard template for bruisering it

but you're right it's not super safe

it's hard to cleave as well

you could do praline or garo draco kahli

but speed racing is tough, plus tesa can easily be tanky and survive any ignore def nuker

the haegang suggestion is decent too, but also has holes

[languid crater]

The truth of the matter is this is, despite being around for a full season, still not very well documented outside of top guilds, and the counters they have many of them are tight lipped about

[heavy sluice]

popular +2 are just things like rica bellenus nora etc

[languid crater]

The only counters that are known are pretty basic premium stuff

Idk maybe haegang isn't simple but

[heavy sluice]

the problem is that your turn order can get messed up by clara stripping/not stripping certain things, or if you're too slow then the boost might not be enough and sav still cuts in

[warped saffron]

Windy, racuni, YH.

[languid crater]

Lmao

XD

[heavy sluice]

yea i dunno about that one

[languid crater]

Hahaha

Aint no way

[warped saffron]

Wait I lied

[runic wagon]

yea this is something id like to bring up

[warped saffron]

Tesa, racuni, windy

[runic wagon]

i can 98% this a full maps worth

and im pretty sure jx can too

but nobody wants to show their hands

[languid crater]

Yep

[warped saffron]

Understandable

[heavy sluice]

i try not to mention but yes obviously i don't share all counters i use

[runic wagon]

so until this def isnt meta in season i wouldnt expect it to be common knowledge

[warped saffron]

Would it improve after tournament?

[runic wagon]

theres stuff like

[languid crater]

Unfortunately arjun

[runic wagon]

tesa yeonwha tetra

which is

workable i guess

[languid crater]

This defense has existed since last siege tourney

[runic wagon]

but its not nearly as robust as the tech top guilds have

[heavy sluice]

i can vouch for tesa yeonhwa tetra. if i had to hit a full tower of this def that would be one of the offenses i personally use

[warped saffron]

Alright thanks

[runic wagon]

my biggest advice is

if your offense has

windy or leo

its probably bad

into this

[languid crater]

I've been trying to get someone to tell me how the heck to hit this

And basically everyone says

"..."

X)

[warped saffron]

Yeah. I’ve had the same experience

But I just assumed it was cause I haven’t been trying in siege as much recently

[languid crater]

Let me check my swgt

[warped saffron]

So I just missed it

[languid crater]

I know I did some testing

[runic wagon]

no its because this def is pretty spammed in g3 rn

and there isnt any short form easy/obvious counter

[heavy sluice]

i've personally used everything that i suggested (unless i say specifically that "i would not recommend this but ive seen others use it")

[warped saffron]

Understandable

[heavy sluice]

don't worry about it or think you have to wait until people show more counters

these are definitely good enough

if you still fail a lot its a rune build or piloting issue

[warped saffron]

Yeah, makes sense

The goal is 95% WR. And I only have to hit this once every couple sieges

[heavy sluice]

yes. everything i suggested has 95% wr

[warped saffron]

Yeah makes sense

[languid crater]

i'm assuming fish require the skillup?

so many good fish

[heavy sluice]

1 in s3 would be good

[languid crater]

hmm okay

[warped saffron]

For the tesa, tetra, YH. what’s the tuning / tick? I’m assuming tetra -> Tesa. 239 tick, vio will. Will + shield YH

And YH as close to 0 speed

[runic wagon]

id venture 286 tetra

[warped saffron]

Hmm makes sense

[runic wagon]

but i dont actually use this offense on account of having better options

[warped saffron]

Also makes sense

[heavy sluice]

yea 286 tetra is pretty important. shouldn't be too bad since she has high base spd. also tesa lead to help you get 100 res

[warped saffron]

Alright

[heavy sluice]

ideally will offset on tetra, but i think the 286 tick/100 res stats are more important

if you have to do broken to hit those, do it

[warped saffron]

Alright cool

I finally have mana so it shouldn’t be impossible on will as long as I rune swap

Which I definitely will

Thanks for the help

[charred ivy]

okay I did not say this, please dont quote me on that

[runic wagon]

this isnt any better

[charred ivy]

its far better than yh

[runic wagon]

[charred ivy]

i found it after yea

[warped saffron]

Assuming it’s well runed, how would you hit this?

Outspending is very hard cause 28 lead and high base speeds. And then for bruisering it can land good skill order and be hard

Like boost -> cicilid s3 -> Miyang S2 kills pretty much anything

[warped saffron]

Siege advice Arjun132

[runic wagon]

I don’t know any public domain stuff for this

I think a lot of guilds Triana this

[sweet cloak]

Last time I hit this lushen worked fine but I’m assuming when you say well runed it’s at least better than that.

Also just realized this is g3 siege. My bad.

[warped saffron]

What’s the counter to carc, miles, elad. That doesn’t use Leo

[heavy sluice]

windy 2 water

[warped saffron]

Is praline good there BTW?

Just wondering

Like double ignore defense. Actually nvm

[heavy sluice]

speed tuning is a bit different with miles

[warped saffron]

Miles

Yeah

[heavy sluice]

possible but you have to do the math

[warped saffron]

Makes sense

Just something funny

I lost this cause of bad piloting. Not procs

[runic wagon]

Uh

Best case scenario you’re racing at -4 if you’re using 30 dova

If you’re not using a 30 speed lead its 8 speed

You do not lushen this

[runic wagon]

Don’t use Leo into carc

Also, Elucia vigor windy

[sweet cloak]

Thanks for the pointer!

[calm lantern]

triana chacha roid all day

[runic wagon]

That’s not safe either

Damage sets can and will blitz through Roid like he’s not there

It’s also pitifully easy for the defense to just oneshot Triana

[calm lantern]

we usually dont have problems against this using it. we run g3 wars. we use high end arts though i guess you could say

[runic wagon]

Cool, I run a +40k hp +1k Triana and on full damage sets the defense kills her before the offense moves

If you think it’s safe you’re not hitting the damage ones

[calm lantern]

nothing is ever 100% safe. you take the risk with everything. was just stating what we use consistently.

[runic wagon]

Yea well “cichlid used s3 on open and you died” isn’t a safe comp

Especially in tourney when cichlid can’t derp

Into the right variant (read: full damage) you’re 80% at best

[calm lantern]

and i guess we will see when that time comes if thats the case but at the case you are stating, there is no safe comp against a mihyang cich due to cich s3

[runic wagon]

There is

There’s actually quite a few

None of them are t2

[calm lantern]

t1 isnt possible for every player though, i am looking at this as a idea for him since t1 really relies on high end spd runes which some people do not have

dont get me wrong, i do not disagree with you, and am not arguing, but without proper info on his speed sets there are many factors on what is possible for him.

[languid crater]

what guild do you play for?

[warped saffron]

is MVL or TWL safe into Carc, betta, iris?

I tried TWL and failed. And I saw a guildmate that used MVL which also failed

[heavy sluice]

how did twl fail

maybe do vigor tetra windy or something, basically get more support in there

[warped saffron]

I wasn't looking at the chat. carc was doing roughly 12k per hit on windy (-20 fire on windy). I got an unlucky streak of stuns from iris on lulu and couldn't heal up windy in time, and he died

also a good chance I misused a heal somewhere

but overall I was healthy, and then suddenly I was getting stunned for multiple turns on lulu along with silence on lulu

I have a replay. It’s uploading RN

https://youtu.be/n_fQ92dksy8?feature=shared

[heavy sluice]

show tractor windy stats/artis?

[languid crater]

0:05 you hit iris with lulu, this is dangerous as she can revenge and despair stun
0:07 you see that the carcano is on revenge, I think I'd try to be mindful of getting revenged with windy
0:20 you make the switch to betta. I don't like this very much. once you stop hitting carcano, the defense becomes quite dangerous. one of the reasons TWL is so good here is because tractor is constantly stunning carcano during downtimes in immunity. when she revives carcano, you just switch back to him. her revive is on a 5 turn cooldown. you're winning the destroy battle through CC on carc especially. only carc would be on destroy here if anyone is going to be runed on destroy (in this case, nobody is also).

[warped saffron]

Yeah. Makes sense. I initially was planning on killing carc. Then I thought about betta revive so I switched to betta. Then I realized I can’t kill her quick enough and switch back to carc

I hit the same def but different person like an hour ago and focused carc and it went fine

Though that carc only hit for 9k vs this one that was hitting for 12k

[warped saffron]

How do you hit Chandra + high base speed + LD unit defs?

Examples would be
Chandra, cicilid, Mi Ying
Chandra, zen, Fermion

Outspending is very hard, but T2 always has a unit that can get deleted

Is this one of those defs where you take multiple like water units and try to split the damage?

[warped saffron]

Based on how it went. I took a very wrong counter

What should I take here?

[heavy sluice]

2 water + windy instead of tesa

[runic wagon]

^^

way you did it the miles touches tesa

then carc def breaks tesa

[warped saffron]

Yeah makes sense. My windy just got deleted here

I don’t get how these carc’s do so much damage when there is no def break and I’m on -20 fire

[timid zodiac]

Carcano (Fire Sniper Mk.I)

Wikia

1. Accurate Fire

Attacks the enemy to inflict damage that ignores all damage reduction effects.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%

Multiplier

4.5*{ATK}

2. Hidden Aim

Strikes the [Hidden Aim] pose. Increases the damage dealing to an enemy by 200% while in this pose, and increases the chances of receiving a Glancing Hit by 70% if you're attacked while in this pose. The [Hidden Aim] pose disables after you attack on your turn. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1
Cooltime Turn -1

3. Dead Eye (Passive)

Decreases the Defense of the enemy with the worst HP status for 1 turn at the start of each turn. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[runic wagon]

bc its functionally a 13.5 multiplier

[warped saffron]

Makes sense

[warped saffron]

I recently pulled Aliyah and have Feng. What are common 3rd units with him, and how is it built in terms of speeds?

I haven’t really been using feng all too much because I don’t have him runed well

I know that it depends on the defense

But I mean in the general sense

[heavy sluice]

feng should be pretty easy to rune as he doesn't use typical bruiser runes with atk and crit

[warped saffron]

Yeah. I just haven’t changed his runes in over a year

[heavy sluice]

most common is vela or amelia

[warped saffron]

Wait. I pulled Amelia not Aliyah. My fault

[heavy sluice]

oh

any healer then

[warped saffron]

So like lulu / tetra is alright?

Or do I want something with def buff?

Like talk?

[heavy sluice]

def buff helps but not required

[warped saffron]

Talc*

[heavy sluice]

and then now it depends on the specific def

if you want something generic then you want to distribute the elements/damage

so if you already have wind water

should find a fire

[warped saffron]

Yeah. Makes sense so feng + Aliyah + depends on defense

[heavy sluice]

but of course if feng is your tank

then you can use a squishier water

[warped saffron]

I mean ameli*

[heavy sluice]

and do feng + 2 water

[warped saffron]

Yup. Makes sense

What tick is it built at? 205 or 239?

[heavy sluice]

doesn't matter as much for feng

he has atb gain from his passive. will mess up ticks

[warped saffron]

Makes sense but healers / supports at 239 then

[heavy sluice]

sure

[warped saffron]

Alright. Thanks

Another one. I pulled nana recently as well

I have Leo. And I have seen things like Leo + nana. But I currently use Leo, tetra, tesa with high consistency

Like if it’s taken into the right def it just wins

Is there cases where nana > tetra there?

Or should I just leave nana alone?

[heavy sluice]

i dont know what leo + nana is

nana is usable but would not use with leo or those comps

[warped saffron]

Yeah. Thats what I thought

Is this something that you can take juno, camilla windy into?

I really struggle with 5 star towers / using premium offenses cause I don’t know what they can and can’t be taken into

And so I’m trying to get better at that, cause I have premium units that I just don’t use.
ie, 2 sets of juno Camilla windy
Feng
MST

[heavy sluice]

yes

[warped saffron]

Tractor, Camilla, windy is safe, right?

Or is there an issue of not enough sustain?

Actually thinking about it. Camilla alone isn’t enough sustain. I guess replacing tractor with tetra / lulu is safer

[warped saffron]

I had 1 loss this siege it's this right here

incorrect counter, misplays, or rune issues?

I watched the replay and I did play parts of it pretty poorly

video is uploading atm

https://youtu.be/or2fRy4SE5s?feature=shared

[heavy sluice]

maybe rune gap but i never really liked twl that much

i like to use khmun racuni cov/taru against these kinds of defs, swift racuni and snipe the carc

doesn't even matter if woosa outspeeds

[warped saffron]

alright yeah. that makes sense. thanks

[languid crater]

haha, i actually ran into this awhile back, i have a list

Vs Tesa Sav Woosa - TWL if well runed, Juno cami windy is free, bolverk Amelia windy is free but wasteful
Aaliyah is free

what jx said works of course too, just for bruiser stuff this should work OK

wait hold on

it's carcano oops i'm blind

?therion

[tepid hound]

idiot advisor nice reading comprehension

[warped saffron]

I was about to say. Juno into Carc seems scary

[languid crater]

XD i realized it at that part as well actually

[warped saffron]

Carcano, miles, betta/Triana/Louise

How is tractor, Camilla, windy?

I feel like it goes Triana > betta > lousie

Like safest to least safe when using that offense

[runic wagon]

uh

for louise you can khmun kona shren/cov