Raijin's road to G1 RTA

[inland tartan]

Finally biting the bullet and trying to get my drafting down so I can start climbing again in the hopes of pulling my first G1. I've been following IviITaLY a lot since he runs a lot of the same mons I do and trying to sorta model my drafting after his but I'm clearly still missing something critical.

In general I lean pretty heavy into turn 1, my core being Neph CP with Moore Eshir and Masha being fairly common picks. In a speed battle I tend to drop Moore in favor of Psama or Oliver with a LP Triton to cover a 2nd strip and speed contest, and if they start taking my core I'll pivot to more turn 2 with things like Giou, Rat, Miles, Abellio etc.

Where I feel like I'm having trouble:

• Losing speed battles, or Triton triggering Moore who then pushes my Eshir back. I've slowed Triton down to hopefully mitigate this. When I just straight-up get outsped, that's just gbah holding out on me. If Triton misses strips/pushbacks and they banned Eshir, bad RNG can't be helped. These are mostly fine.

• Speedy bruisers and tanky comps. Things like 33lead Miles tanks/bruisers (Camilla, Rat etc). I'll usually take Neph, CP and Eshir against these because lead+Miles makes me feel like I need speed, only to find that Neph gets banned and my last picks (often something like Moore Masha) still get shut down. Is it bad RNG when, say, Masha gets Miles stunned

• Completely unexpected picks - I have a specific game in mind on this one but it's also kind of a pattern. An early Moore Ethna caused me to pivot to Giou Racuni. He followed me with Masha Woosa and now I'm feeling threatened - I don't have reliable strip and he's already threatening to kill most of my strippers I can draft between Ethna and Masha. So I'm already planning to ban Woosa until he LPs Douman. I was already kinda off-foot, now I'm completely lost on how I should have drafted, what I should ban or how I should play the match.

This should be a good start. Box attached, runes on request. Thanks in advance!

[forest shard]

im not good in speed contest, so i will give some personal opinions as a turn 1,5/2 player (giou rat main)

1. you need a Tesarion to beat the ultra comdom bruiser comps when playing Moore CP, he's pretty much a forceban
2. you dont really need eshir against Miles + bruisers unless you really need to contest, miles stunning masha is fine and acceptable, but you will be able to move after that and control those bruisers with Moore CP anyway, bruiser playstyle is just praying for proc and res, so sometimes bad thing happens.
3. if you want to pivot into turn 2, dont draft Giou rat instantly, they're easy to counter and really lack in dmg, consider something like shiz first, she's versatile and has insane s3, after that you can start picking counters based on their draft and still have shiz protection, spamming passives into speedy is like the best answer, unless the opponent is Entrei then u forfeit, but it will work most of the time

[undone meteor]

whats your first pick? and whats your 1st and 2nd pick if enemy stole that?

[inland tartan]

I've been trying to avoid Tesa a bit for mainly 2 reasons: first because I can't really make a decent one right now lol. CR 4s dodge me hard - Juno has my only viable one. Second because every time I draft him everyone seems to either proc or cycle out of oblivion and he ends up being kinda heavy.

As for pivoting, that is something I kinda need to learn better - when and how to pivot. Should I pivot early? Try to force them into a speed battle and then pivot when they've committed? Shizuka sounds like a good early pivot pick but is there anyone else high-priority to pick if I pivot early?

FP is Neph, if she's taken I grab Moore CP and just try to control (but since she's an LD5 that doesn't happen often yet)

[undone meteor]

do you have haegang? he is a nice addition to your box

[inland tartan]

I do - not sure if I can rune him back up and keep him tuned with how spread my runes are atm and historically when I've tried to fit him in I've fallen short on damage or control and they eventually overtake me

[forest shard]

i saw some niche swift Tesa tech just to hit triple rev verd on first turn, but against bruisers i dont think u need to be super fast, just want to outspd those vio and moves after your strippers, CRD Tesa is actually good into Rat Giou because normally they just casually cycle it out but now you have the dmg to kill them easily.

Best way to pivot is picking versatile units so u dont have to think much about the interact between them, shiz works the best.

Also against some Bolv/Aaliyah spammer, Miles and Molong is like a death sentences for them.

also do you use Wind robo? double robo is fun and broken at the same time

theory is just theory too, u might want to do some wings and see if the pivot is fine for u or not, then we can keep going deeper into it

[inland tartan]

I used to use more double robo but these hyper-aggressive speedy teams were too hard to keep up with, and with the meta shifting more and more speedy he got unruned for Triton lol

[forest shard]

i think i will let the triton neph part for someone better with it, meanwhile can i see your Rat, giou and shiz runes?

[inland tartan]

None of them are particularly great since they're not core or main play style

[forest shard]

i suggest getting acc cap for Giou instead of res

[inland tartan]

Wouldn't something like Ethna just run her over then? Especially being despair, if she gets def broken and stunned turn 1 she's probably never gonna move. Conversely, I try not to bring her into anything with high res like Riley. Oliver is kinda rough admittedly but with 15 s2 acc it's usually been okay at least

[forest shard]

nah, she boosts 35% atb after ethna s2, you can cut it 100% and s2 to prevent either ethna from s3 or follow up

also i prio s1 def break more than s2 suppress

[inland tartan]

true her s1 being at 35% acc is kinda rough. I rarely use her since I try to stay turn 1 so I prob never really noticed how she actually does lol. Usually just feels like I lose with her because she never despair stuns

[forest shard]

well yea, she's nice sack pick ngl, but for moore CP comp i would say focus on counters to their draft is better than pivot tho, since the core is strong already

[inland tartan]

Agreed lol. So here's one I should figure out - my brain kinda shut down and the last 2 were kinda last-second "I have to lock something" picks. Eshir over Mo would have probably been better for Taor to dunk someone more reliably with spd buff, any other thoughts?

This kinda falls back into my "spd leads with Miles and bruisers" section - maybe dark robo in there somewhere and just throw a ton of atb control at them?

[undone meteor]

wedjat usually got the fastest swift set, around +220 in g1-g2, so if you want to outspeed i think you can pick eshir zibala for the last 2, double robo seems good too as long as you can outspeed and kill them with additional dmg

sometimes i also pivot with suiki and herne in situation like this

herne is amazing against this full passive team, 3 turn oblivion and def break with 3 turn cd

[inland tartan]

No Zibala, my only high-base mons are Eshir Triton and Ethna (do have Sekhmet but she's unruned atm). Double robo would have worried me here just because he had last pick and might have picked another hard turn 1 like Ethna or Sekhmet but it probably would have been better than my panic pick lol. I'll rune wind robo back up and keep him in my pocket for teams like this

[inland tartan]

Not super happy with him since my swifts are kinda thin (and wills are nonexistent) now but I think he'll do okay in cases like this

[forest shard]

wind robo has your best swift set?

[inland tartan]

not even close - best pure speed sets are Eshir and Triton. Slightly slower but with more stats on Ethna. decent enough sets on Tiana and Bastet just to cleave people that go full turn 2. slow but high-damage sets on Taor and Sige. If I want to give robo a better set taking from Ethna is my most realistic shot without giving up a mon I use a lot

[inland tartan]

Here's another case of "he grabbed a really good force-ban last pick" that I got rolled by - not sure if bad RNG or if I played it wrong. Bans were Robo and Akroma, his Haegang cut after Moore and put glancing on everyone. CP missed all pushbacks on Vero so couldn't Neph s2 without Vero just cleansing everything (if anything even landed through glancing). Then Oliver stopped everyone from moving because Oliver. Maybe should have banned Haegang instead and just tried to kill Vero before Akroma+Oliver could lock me down?

[forest shard]

yea i would say normally u kill akroma with additionals, her silents is annoying but im pretty sure with this draft you can use your CP's s3 no problem at all, which mean vero wont be able to move soon, but this feels like a lost already with those last 3 picks from him, because Robo will be banned for sure and everything else wont have enough dmg to kill them before the passives kicks in

imo, the eshir pick isnt that necessary because haegang juno pick doesnt feels like a speed threat at all, maybe a swift verd or +1 push back will be nice instead of him

[inland tartan]

Yeah I was kinda on the fence about Eshir afterwards - my thinking was "he has Oliver Haegang, he's gonna try to fight me for turn 1" so I wanted the option to stay out ahead. If I banned Haegang and got a full round off I might have been able to kill Vero - CR Neph, 2k atk CP and 60cr Eshir with 45k hp is usually enough to kill 1 mon

Either way, think I was way too scared of Akroma chain silence - especially with Neph who could theoretically silence Oliver and poke him to death (until he procs)

[forest shard]

iirc, swift verd counter haegang with the boost, u can try that out next time so your team wont get cut(unless not tightly tuned), also haegang is a great reason u should prepare 2 robos for him, this match with 2 robos will be super easy ngl

[inland tartan]

might be able to rune swift verde back up if I strip Ethna but my swifts are really thin now (thin enough that I briefly switched wind robo to vio towards the end of my wings today because I didn't like how slow he was lol). If I ran double robo instead of Eshir Moore, how likely/risky is it that he goes Chiwu high-base-spd last and just outspeeds and controls me? I think that's what hung me up there - I keep thinking "I need to make sure I stay ahead of him and it looks like he can threaten me so I need to commit"

[forest shard]

u can try vio ethna, since your box doesnt use a lot of vio runes. sadly no zibala else things will be easier

[inland tartan]

yeah T~T

what kind of tuning would I want on non-swift Ethna? not familiar with it - my thought is some time after strippers but before Neph in case I need to emergency s3 strip someone?

[forest shard]

yep, with her high base spd i think you can tune her like that no problem, just try it out and do some good will first to see if you really need her on swift or not

[inland tartan]

k, while I get that cooked up got a different one I'm not sure about. I wanted to fight speed but he went with me. I learned earlier my swifts just can't keep up with double high-base double lead so I tried to pivot, but it didn't really work out. Are there better mons I could have gone for?

I ended up having to ban Miles - didn't have enough damage to fight him and he would have def put out way too much to sustain

[forest shard]

what did he ban? i think u can ban the ethna and accept one reset but your team has more than 1 important abilities tho? still winnable if you can s3 with CP, or s2 with neph

[inland tartan]

Neph

Funny story, I did get a s3 off with CP but couldn't reset the Psama. Not that I was even able to kill him - everyone was putting out way too much damage for me to sustain

[forest shard]

yea racuni alone into moore Ethna isnt enough, also 2 fires last pick into 2 waters already. if you pivot, you must pick something that has elemental advantage against them, like a diana or giou because they're spammer, or an oliver if u want to contest, or some sort of protection like woosa/shiz because his only aoe stripper is moore

he can last pick a praha or juno for your immunity but that's not the best threat against your team now unlike a last pick miles into juno rat

[inland tartan]

hmmm if I did Diana Woosa, assuming Diana makes it through... Sekh could strip her and Ethna drop a lot of damage but that frees up the rest of my team to follow up. Or he drops a bunch of AOE and Diana can start popping off. Better than what I had

[forest shard]

sometimes u pick diana just for being targeted at and win because they have to hit it else they lose, i always do that, a perfect sandbag that help my team be able to do their stuffs

[inland tartan]

so in general against super fast mostly single target teams like this I can pivot to stuff that's all high pressure just to force them onto 1 or 2 targets while the rest can run crazy. I like it

[inland tartan]

slightly different spin on this one. aside from the fact that he kinda runegapped me, I definitely don't think I did this one right. Bans were Neph and Dyeus. In hindsight I think maybe I should have pivoted in the 2nd round so I could have taken things like Shiz and maybe Rat early, then throw in Leo and maybe Josephine or Giou late if he committed as hard as he did to turn 1

[forest shard]

do you have any 33 lead? this is actually good to contest tho, since u have eshir and his first 2 pick wont be on swift most of the time. diana doesnt fit here because she will just getting reset and control. even if you get enough ATB and cut the triton/moore you can't transform anyway. also next time if u see they go turn 1 that hard with first 4 pick, just slam in leo verd and ban the last pick

[inland tartan]

I have all 3 ele 33leads lol. Vanessa not runed but Oliver and Psama are. I could have gone Neph -> Eshir (Psama/Oliver) -> Verde Leo - he either gives me Verde Leo or 33lead Eshir. Good call

If he pivoted in 2nd round instead of committing hard like he did, I could always throw in double robo. Neph Eshir 33lead double-robo would have probably been good too

[sick mountain]

Last pick jamire + cc unit would of been the way n then ban psama,

[sick mountain]

For this match

[inland tartan]

Ahh yeah Jamire is a good Sekh counter, idk if I have the vio depth for him at this point but it's a good idea

[sick mountain]

I use mine broken will but it’s also a counterto miles n Ethna stun

[inland tartan]

In slightly positive news, thought I'd share some examples of wins I pulled off recently. I think my drafts on both were decent at least - first match he had to ban Psama or risk getting nuked on the revive (and he banned Neph so he did in fact get nuked hard) so Triton would be there to push everyone back more than Haegang could boost, and the 2nd match I knew I had enough control to shut everyone down (even after Vero resisted Oliver once)

[forest shard]

what was your ban on first match

[inland tartan]

Oliver - without a speed lead I could stay well ahead of him and without the cd reset Psama would run wild

[forest shard]

ok so here's the problem, i think u won because he banned neph tho

here's an example

if he ban triton, now u 33lead + eshir then using s2 to boost, but you only have CP as stripper, and with CP s2 into rag + haegang it will 100% boost their team up, i dont think you will have enough ATB to keep moving after that

and then even without oliver to reset, he can just robo you for free and kill psama first before the damage ramp up

[inland tartan]

hmm true that's a possibility, my CP does only have 15cr but it's possible. In a case like that I'd just have to hope for a vio proc I guess. What do you think would have been a better last pick in a case like this? I could have done something like Tiana for a free strip and a boost

Or maybe even a better 2nd round pick?

hmm slight correction apparently he has 22cr now. so the chance of hitting at least 1 crit is actually... not in my favor lol. I'm probably overestimating 33lead+Eshir's ability to keep me ahead of Haegangs

[forest shard]

the last pick is nice, like u have to pick stuffs that counter his haegang and consider that one is a force ban, but u would still ban haegang because you have no stripper left, even if he leave the last pick in, it still be used as a pre strip for CP which is nice

[forest shard]

what were the ban in 2nd match?

[undone meteor]

in 2nd match i feel like you shouldve pivot, lets say enemy draft lucia and douglas instead of vero monkey, do you think you still able to control them?

[forest shard]

idk douglas into dark robo neph isnt the greatest idea

but fire pudding is nice indeed

raijin has last pick so it's safe to say that he can get a force ban there and just ban anything beside douglas

[undone meteor]

yeah douglas actually only has 50% chance glance, but with multi hit hes 100% gonna revenge

[forest shard]

that has to be their douglas, mine with 2k6 atk sometimes just cosplay antares

but it's really risky picking doug into neph and dark robo

one with atk break

one with atk buff

[undone meteor]

maybe triple rev verde better than douglas

[forest shard]

yea but now u just lack damage and 100% have to ban tesa last pick

i would say 2nd match the only way he can win is hard sack

coz raijin pushed him into the dead corner

[inland tartan]

2nd match bans were monke and Neph. If he took fire pudding instead of Vero I could do Masha or even Miles, Mo or Douglas. Instead of monke, I can just ban her still. but I saw he went very passive so I just hit the gas lol

I get thrown off a lot because I'll think they're gonna ban something towards the end of the draft and pick my ban accordingly but a lot of times they just ban Neph lol

[inland tartan]

backing up a bit onto the topic of "will Haegang cut", I had a chance to test a little the other day and Haegang was not able to cut after Ezio even with 33lead. I'll still need to test a bit more but I think Eshir+CP might be able to keep me ahead of a no-lead Haegang

somewhat related, but most of my losses lately have been against turn 1 comps like this. my pivot game is still really weak (especially if I get fp and they grab Moore CP) so I'm thinking of working more Haegang into my drafts in these cases - maybe Neph -> Haegang (wind/dark) robo or Eshir. Historically when I've grabbed Haegang I've lacked damage but I'm hoping by bringing him mostly into these hard turn1s that won't be as big of a problem. Unless they pivot - then I just focus my last 2 picks on hard control and ban their biggest turn 1 threat

[carmine ingot]

Ezio (Water 에지오(물))

Wikia

3. Tactical Bomb

Attacks all enemies to remove all beneficial effects. Afterwards, increases the Attack Bar of the ally with the highest Attack Bar by 25% and the Attack Power of the ally with the second highest Attack Bar for 2 turns. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

4.8*{ATK}

Pos. Effects

Increase ATB (25%)
Increase ATK (2 round(s))

Neg. Effects

Remove Buff

provided by SWARFARM

Haegang (Water Art Master)

Wikia

1. Mark of Brush Tip

Attacks the enemy to decrease the Attack Bar by 30% with a 50% chance.

Levels

Damage +5%
Damage +5%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +10%
Effect Rate +15%

Multiplier

3.8*{ATK}

2. Moon Drawn by Clouds

Attacks all enemies to remove all beneficial effects granted on them and to increase the chance of landing a Glancing Hit for 2 turns with a 75% chance each. (Reusable in 4 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Effect Rate +10%
Damage +10%
Effect Rate +15%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

3.2*{ATK}

3. Art of Blank Space (Passive)

When enemies or allies remove harmful effects, the Attack Bar of all allies will be increased by 20%. When enemies remove beneficial effects of allies, all harmful effects on the ally with removed beneficial effects will be removed and the Attack Bar will be increased by 20%. [Automatic Effect]

provided by SWARFARM

[forest shard]

oops, ok so haegang boost 20% while ezio boosts 25%

that's why you can't cut

[forest shard]

ok so tbh, last pick haegang wasnt a great idea, since they have at least 2 units who already counter hae (robo, chiwu, they all push back more than 20% boost) and now we also know water ezio counters it too

i would say something like a verd could be a good force ban for them, or anything that can interupt the combo

[inland tartan]

yeah I kinda wanted to test how well he could cut but I think you're right that it wasn't the best place to test that - I think my usual Triton would have won it since I'd have minimum 24lead+higher base

[forest shard]

yep, haegang is basically a dead last pick against them. you need something that they have to pick either letting eshir through or that counter through

[inland tartan]

aight well it's confirmed - lead+Eshir gets cut by no-lead Haegang. damn

[forest shard]

u tested it?

[inland tartan]

only 24lead this time instead of 33 but yeah, Ethna cut and then Juno

[forest shard]

yea because moore pushback isnt that great

[inland tartan]

Ethna didn't even get stripped and still cut but the Juno cut was telling

[forest shard]

if you're lucky, then u can push back more than hae passive, but his s2 is random

[inland tartan]

what would have been a good answer to the middle of the draft? When I had Neph CP Moore and he had Oli Karnal Haegang Juno? I knew I could force a ban by grabbing Doug but clearly Eshir wasn't the right answer here

[forest shard]

oli karnal is a good answer to speedy comp since u wont be able to kill them fast enough, masha pivot could be a good answer here instead of douglas(idr if u have 1 or not )

douglas passive is ONLY 50% max

so sometimes rely on RNG isnt that great tho

and u dont have any sustain(eshir will get focus and reset) for the douglas to drag the match to get the ATK up

also since u have dark robo

abuse robos into haegang

they're that good

[inland tartan]

so dark robo Masha for the last 2? who would be the ban on that then, Ethna? I wouldn't have a swift mon at that point so he's getting turn 1 whether I ban Oliver or Ethna

[forest shard]

you ban haegang, he has no aoe stripper and he wont pick juno into masha, this way ethna will only be able to s3 one unit hoping for stun

[inland tartan]

okay so I won this one but for janky reasons, and I think it shows an area where things still get weird for me. He picked Juno into Masha so I figure he's gonna ban her, but he bans Haegang instead? Should I have expected that or is it a case of "bad players make bad decisions"?

[forest shard]

haegang counter giana, he's giana picker, that's explained itself

like there's nothing in your team that can fk him up harder than haegang, because he has heal, control, dmg, aoe stripper, etc in his team

and the only thing to stop him is haegang cleanse, boost and your team cut, also he has 30 dark spd lead to contest your 24 spd lead eshir

which is pretty reasonable to ban haegang

[inland tartan]

Yeah I guess the Juno last pick was such a "wtf why would you pick that" that it completely threw me off lol. with the dark robo he could have theoretically pushed me back more than Haegang could have boosted but eh

another one I won pretty handily but is there something different I could have done? bans were Taor and Juno. Theoretically his Verde could have counter crit Moore turn 1 to steal the turn but I hedged the bet on that one

[forest shard]

i didnt press enter 2 days ago wondering why u havent responded yet

now i lost my whole paragraph

[forest shard]

isnt the juno ban not necessary? since neph aoe heal block

meanwhile a crit from verd or shiz proc would have been bad

[proven bough]

yeah I would not say juno is a must ban, but tbh he looks outdrafted anyway as the others aren't a huge threat either

[inland tartan]

Yeah that was where I was kinda on the fence but I figured same as Skere said - nobody is super scary. What I'm finding with Juno is she's healing herself enough off of Neph every turn to solo me sometimes lol

I think I need more Juno pressure in my draft earlier if it looks like they're going bruisers/turn2

[forest shard]

anything new

im boring want to do something

[inland tartan]

Lmao I wish I had some to share but with COVID laying me up I've only done 1 wing recently and I smashed him badly enough that it wasn't even worth sharing lol. I'm gonna try to do some today, maybe I'll have some matches worth shading/discussing

[inland tartan]

aight I do have one I can mention while I slowly get back to more wings. Leo Lucifer. Fack this pair about as much as Leo Visachel. I normally expect to just ban Leo and focus on outspeeding, but they always catch on and run something like Douglas/Kinki lp that solos me because I'm too heavily invested in contesting turn 1. Are there any good "fack you" strats that just completely shut these guys down?

[forest shard]

wait covid is still a thing?

hope u get well soon

[inland tartan]

🇺🇸

[inland tartan]

aight managed a few so far. one was a boring ol' cleave but this one was worth discussing. bans were Taor Lucia. Verde countered turn 1 on Moore but double glance, had a little bad robo luck but locked and stunned everyone enough to turn it into Neph Moore v Juno@50%, which was a relatively easy cleanup

[proven bough]

looks fine tbh

[inland tartan]

here's one that's not so fine. the Woosa pick was bad - I had a thought about banning the Juno when I picked him but when he grabbed Vero I realized even if I ban Juno I won't be able to kill anyone with Vero cleansing and cycling constantly. probably should have picked Mo Tesa instead so at least I could have landed some oblivions to keep my damage up

[inland tartan]

lots of back and forth today, lots of trouble with Camilla Leo Vero comps, this match which was kind of a runegap I think (whole team with lead outsped Eshir without lol), one attempt to sack that didn't pan out because Giou fake AF, and one misjudged ban where I threatened to Doug-solo but he didn't ban it and I let Camilla through thinking he would lol

[forest shard]

yea the moment u see leo verd and slammed Mo Wo is kinda doomed, because he has the last pick that can be easily a force ban letting all 4 counters through

even with tesa, he can easily ban that and sustain/cycle through Mo, and robo/CP kinda need some sack with despair to beat them, i would say leo trap last 2 picks are better than a mo, like tesa + snipe, they have to pick between a snipe that can kill Leo/Juno or a tesa that can shut them down

[forest shard]

yea u can't really double robo into turn 1, unless ur obabo

he has 2 lead, a masha, and a miles. that can easily disrupt your non-lead eshir

[inland tartan]

my usual tankbuster pair is Mo Miles but with Leo on the field I didn't want to commit to a Leo ban. Failed to realize in time that Woosa means comitting to a Juno ban, bad for the same reason. my hope was I could do enough addl damage to Mo someone but realized too late that Mo was the easy ban without some more threat. I think Tesa Mo could have worked but yeah, definitely needed more direct threat to pressure whatever last pick he tried to run

[forest shard]

i always abuse the opponent when they pick Leo against my Miles, now i just slam Nem snipe units in and once Leo down miles just carry the game like usual

[inland tartan]

I guess with Camilla already on the field I was a little worried about running a fire nuker Leo trap, but maybe if I had picked CP Miles 2nd and 3rd I could have had him carry after the Leo died

[forest shard]

sekhmet downbad @inland tartan

[inland tartan]

a few times I considered runing sekh up to help fight hard turn1 comps but I'm like... no lol

[forest shard]

wedjat is just too strong idk how to beat it

[inland tartan]

Beef! another former guildie of mine lmao

[inland tartan]

once again these tanky teams are a problem. kinda expected the Leo but thought I could safely ban him and I'd have enough juice with Miles damage and robo+CP control but I couldn't get anyone under half lol

maybe I should have planned to ban Riley and drafted 2 more versatile lps that I could use to just smash through everyone. Like Masha Ethna or something

[sand cradle]

I feel like banning leo was alright there, but maybe ethna over taor there?

[inland tartan]

I could see Ethna drawing the ban still and I'd be right back where I started

[proven bough]

what were the bans?

and I don't think you can plan to ban riley, you never know what they will lastpick

[inland tartan]

taor and leo

[dense dragon]

i feel like miles is kinda useless in a cc comp

especially with like no sustain on your team

[proven bough]

hmm what about tiana instead of miles

or something with high damage

[dense dragon]

tiana would actually be crazy

cuz of the neph

[proven bough]

yea that's what I was thinking

[inland tartan]

ya that was why I was thinking Masha Ethna(vio) last 2 instead. both are fairly threatening just on their own so if either gets banned I still have kill potential through Riley. I could try Tiana next time in similar situations

[proven bough]

was also thinking tesa but not sure if that works, maybe a crit damage tesa would work

[inland tartan]

idk if Tiana there would have been enough to get through Riley and Mo but maybe

[dense dragon]

like tiana goes thru haegang too

itd be crazy in that slot i think

[inland tartan]

having bad rng rn - verdes that rev every hit, robo's missing his pushbacks, Gious that stun 2 mons turn 1 lol. rough streak

my Josephine gets stunned right after proccing passive lol

[dense dragon]

happens

[inland tartan]

ya just venting a little tilt lol

[inland tartan]

tanked so low it's giving me c2s in the 1490s lmao I've determined I don't know how to play into Moore CP

[dense dragon]

i play moore cp

and usually get fucked by ppl that go oli dark robo zibala stuff

my spd is negative frfr

[inland tartan]

okay this is weird. Tiana is faster than Bastet and on nem. Leo hit her for about 1/3 and she moved last? Does Leo push back more than 1 nem set boosts?

[dense dragon]

depends on ur hp lol

u get 4% atb for every 7%hp lost with nem

[inland tartan]

just under 6k, she has 24k before towers so close to 1/4, should have lost 15 and gained 16 but maybe it was just a little under and only gave 12

[inland tartan]

couple of matches I lost last night that cover a bit of a spread. First one, I think was bad rng - Moore stunned after a strip on Haegang, which apparently gave his whole team a boost when he cleansed it and they all cut. 2nd, I think I was just dumb and let Kass cut before CP and nuke him. That said, wasn't super happy about the 2nd draft I don't think - Miles didn't really feel great. Maybe Mo instead, or something with more direct kill pressure?

[dense dragon]

derune miles if u gon draft neph cp every game

I did that and it did me good fr

[inland tartan]

I still need something that can bust through super tanky defs though, Mo draws a lot of bans so can't rely only on him. anything that could replace him decently?

[dense dragon]

problem with super tanky drafts is they usually have sustain

so miles damage just gets healed up

like unless u draft miles with smthin like shizuka rat he's kinda useless imo

well other comps work with him as well but not Moore cp core

I'd just draft an extra cc unit

like you have dark robo just use him

or wind robo

[inland tartan]

robos into ragdoll usually turns out kinda bad for me - rag passive always triggers at least a few times on s2, they cut, and I either get nuked or locked down. in this case if I had a robo or 2 I could probably ban the rag if the rest of the draft looked the same but I just worry about having such a high priority ban target so early

but you're right on the high sustain making Miles worthless so maybe I should go back to trying to make the robos work

[dense dragon]

masha is also pretty decent into junos

especially if you have neph

[forest shard]

most of the time robo players ban rag, or just pray. u have dark one, just abuse it.
also Miles doesnt fit blitz playstyle, deploy a suiki into rag players instead, it might be better

[inland tartan]

k, so into slower rag teams look to do something like neph CP, dark robo (swift mon?), flex pick (Suiki, Oliver, Masha, another robo, etc). something very generally like that?

[forest shard]

yea, normally we should ban rag most of the time

but sometimes u have to let it through then make sure u have a few pick that can deal with it

dark robo should be on despair to abuse the fact that he can't glance

[inland tartan]

ya he's not super great but he's despair will, ungrinded spd on slot 4 so once I get that grind he'll be zoomin

a little worried about him being faster than Moore once it's grinding but I'll deal with that when I get there lol

[forest shard]

should be fine outspd the bruisers

[inland tartan]

tbh I think my biggest issue, other than "usually ban ragdoll" is still the hard turn1s where they take Moore CP first, I still haven't gotten that pivot down. Should I just fight them on speed and grab Oliver Eshir and last pick 2 strippers if we keep fighting for turn 1 (robo Triton/Lionel)?

or even worse, when they open with Oliver Zibala

[forest shard]

the problem is if they hard contest u cant really race because of 24 lead and not too premium swift set on everything, so it's better to just pivot into stuffs that's decently fast and also bruiser

[inland tartan]

so if they go Moore CP or Oliver Zibala maybe jump over to dark robo Juno and just try to bruise my way through and hope he doesn't completely lock down and reset everyone?

[forest shard]

well, i only go full bruiser after i see moore CP so idk can dark robo make it or not

i would say pivot into rat and juno might be good

so even with neph first pick u still have a threat into them

masha would be the best choice into them ngl

[inland tartan]

ah, was thinking about speed - most of my good speed is on things like dark robo, strippers, etc. my Juno is pretty good but my rat is only okay. I can do Masha but she's super squishy atm for "I got turn 1" nukes lol, she might not live even into heavy wind

[forest shard]

that masha die in a sneeze

[inland tartan]

lmao right but she deletes Junos and does heavy lifting against just about anything not-water which was what I was using her for at the time. plus with so little hp she procs a ton of nem if anyone even looks at her lol. but lemme see if I can beef her up maybe just a little

[forest shard]

well if you using her as a snipe then it's fine, but we're planning on picking her as a main carry against Moore CP, i believe with artifacts they can just dismount her turn 1 lmao

[inland tartan]

I can roll this which I don't hate - I've been having a little trouble landing def breaks into rats and Olivers so the extra acc (with 15 s2 acc from artis) should help a lot there. and she still seems decently smashy

oops forgot to max the slot 3 so it's only -19def (with room for a def grind)

[forest shard]

yea that seems nice

u can even drop it to 85 CRR ngl

[inland tartan]

k lost this one but I think it was trash - Karnal proc'd every turn and basically ignored glance. bans were Masha and Vero (thought he was gonna ban Tesa otherwise I would have banned the cookie)

[forest shard]

tesa is 100% a ban here, but vero ban is kinda...questionable

2 pushback, a masha with free 100% atb up when hitting s2 on anything after neph

u can keep him down at least for 2 turn and snipe with masha, no way he can survive that

[inland tartan]

figured without tesa I'd either need to kill Vero in 1 round or hope for a despair stun from robo, figured he'd cut with nem if I couldn't straight-up kill him but I might be underestimating my Masha since I haven't used her in a while

[forest shard]

well, with the new masha atb change

even if u hit water

u will get a free turn after that

with enough debuffs

cookies is the only sustain and fk our robo/CP

wind mk is annoying but i dont think he can do much after neph s2

[inland tartan]

should have gone with my first instinct then lol, guess vero just facked me over too many times recently and I was too nervous

still would have won if Karnal hadn't gone off and stunned 3 mons through glance after procing out of silence but that's the cost of letting cookie through

I think another case of trash RNG but lemme know what you think - bans were CP and cookie. Juno got 2 revs turn 1 and cut Masha so I couldn't kill her, followed by Giou and Juno chaining stuns until it got down to Neph v Juno. needed a proc to finish her off and couldn't get it

[forest shard]

CP pick into rat giou juno

could have been something better ngl

unless u sack the despair on giou

no way u can stop her from doing s2

can u pin the box picture?

i dont want to drag all the way up to see the unit everytime

but yea as you said RNG isnt on your side then GG

[inland tartan]

apparently no I can't pin the original message lmao but I can post a new shot of my box since it's changed a bit since then anyway

beat a wedjat TL Maxi abuser even though I missed pushback on Vero and missed 2 silences on Maxi lmao

[forest shard]

abuse haegang

[inland tartan]

mf doesn't do anything for me but I lose to him constantly so idk when to pick him apparently lol. prob into Moore CP

[forest shard]

yea

[inland tartan]

think I banned wrong, banned Jeogun thinking he'd ban Haegang with how much strip he had. Eshir boost into Moore s2 meant nobody he stripped could cut

this one actually went well though, bans were Juno and Neph, didn't expect Neph ban or I probably would have banned Praha and just nuked Juno but I just worked Oliver down over a few turns and then he quit lol

[forest shard]

when u eshir moore their haegang they cut but when do eshir moore your haegang it doesnt cut

werid

[forest shard]

this one with eshir jamire u kinda lacking smth idk, iirc ur CP on vio right?

[dense dragon]

BTW if you have Sonia

she can easily one shot rags

[inland tartan]

Maybe it was really good pushback luck, it looked like everybody's atb stayed about the same before and after the strip lol

[inland tartan]

Yeah. Didn't have much hard control but I was trying to just get damage in to take out the Oliver. Once he was down Neph could throw out some big debuffs and cr Jamire and Masha could start deleting people faster

[inland tartan]

I do have Sonia, just haven't had a lot of luck using her. They always pull out Leo since he fits so well into Ragdoll and then I need to ban him and/or Sonia gets banned

[inland tartan]

a few recent matches. lost the ragdoll one but I think it's because I tried to 1shot the ragdoll and couldn't lol. should have tried to delete someone else and ignored him for a while. any specific drafting thoughts?

[forest shard]

rag has free 30% reduction and mostly on -water

just get +fire and nuke those MK and RAT

[inland tartan]

yeah I realized right after I hit him with the Taor s2 and he had 1/4 left. tbf he did have rat proc cleanse his silence, and then he proc'd into s2 after using it the turn before. but still bad play on my part lol

[forest shard]

also, when someone draft rag riley first turn, 100% they will throw in a Leo, so i think Leo traps should be better for it while baiting out the leo

like if they're low on strip

just get a kahli/ken/etc lol

[inland tartan]

ya after the rat and monkey I thought I'd be able to just delete the rag but got greedy. prob should have run MAsha over Woosa just to help secure a kill. still need to make a Leo trap or 2

[forest shard]

1st match idk u should hard win that.
2nd like we said.
3rd he should ban the tesa and u ban julianne right? a bit tricky since 3 neph counters but robo insane
4th i think u ban moore and nuke them through silence?

[inland tartan]

rag match was only loss of those 4. 1st match ezclap. 3rd match Julianne and Tesa yeah. Douglas solo'd even though Leo only glanced 1/4 hits lmao. 4th match, banned Juno, stole a turn with Haegang, ate an Ongyoki s2 and then just locked them all down

[analog violet]

dont go first pick nephtys pick her in the end

otherwise ur nephtys is gonna be useless

[forest shard]

let him cook his own way

[analog violet]

ok

[rapid mist]

I first pick neph

I dont see how that's a problem

[dense dragon]

juno vero pulling up

[rapid mist]

Doesn't matter

Cleave em

[analog violet]

juno veronica pulling up

to ur cleave

[rapid mist]

Who cares about juno? She dies

[analog violet]

vero

[rapid mist]

And Veronica isn't common

Vero dies also

[analog violet]

water cichlid

[rapid mist]

They all die before they can do anything important

[analog violet]

wha do u pick

ur full team

[rapid mist]

Neph shan taor + 2 strips

[analog violet]

josephine leo

[rapid mist]

For juno/vero/tetra stuff

[analog violet]

juno

[rapid mist]

Idc about Jose and juno

Leo ban

[analog violet]

well what do you do if follow up sekhmet

[rapid mist]

My 2 strips are mainly hae + laima

[analog violet]

u will lose 100%

[rapid mist]

If you go sekhmet I aint cleaving

[analog violet]

sekhmet in the end

ur combo is very weak to it

[rapid mist]

I mainly play neph hae laima eleanor stuff

[analog violet]

leo josephine juno sekhmet riley done

[rapid mist]

But I do cleave if I can

[analog violet]

whats ur rank if u dnt mind me asking

[rapid mist]

Last season was because I dropped laima 5h before season ended and did wings with her when I was safe

[forest shard]

@analog violet @rapid mist can u 2 go to #general-sw

[rapid mist]

I was saying that first pick neph is doable. And answered whatever I got asked after

[inland tartan]

It's all good, let's just keep focused. I like Neph fp and I'm gonna stick with it - it's versatile and gives me a lot of room to pivot whatever way I need to, and by now it's what I'm getting most comfortable using

I will say fwiw last season I opened with Moore and picked Neph mid/late and rode low g1 until the end of season but I started trying this way and it's a little late to pivot back lol

[proven bough]

it's not 30% lol

15%

but yeah still hard to oneshot because of it

[proven bough]

yeah I think neph fp is fine, when I face it I'm always scared because I have no idea what he's going to do

in the rag match I'd ban leo (which you probably did) and snipe mhw first

other drafts look ok to me

[sand cradle]

the rag mhw match imo is scary

[inland tartan]

Yeah that's exactly what I realized I should have done lol. Rag was too tanky to 1shot but if I killed monkey I could have held out

[sand cradle]

mostly cause if he bans taor, rag can actually carry that riley hard

and with riley getting immunity up twice + racuni cleansing and riley s3, im unsure if you have enough time

to get through rag before he bonks

[proven bough]

hmm I think it's fine if you have enough artifact dmg

[inland tartan]

I think I could have pulled a kill off on monkey still. Dark Robo into high atk CP and cr Neph with ideally another hit from robo is a good amount of damage on anything not super tanky

[proven bough]

yeah

[inland tartan]

will admit my artis aren't amazing but I think all the direct dmg investment makes up for it

[proven bough]

honestly if you play stuff like this, just really hard farm arti dungeons

I'm planning to hard farm the upcoming abyss dungeons just to get the best addl. damage

in my case moore cp tl, in your case neph

[inland tartan]

I feel like most of my losses are bad drafts more than anything artis could fix, but maybe with better artis I'd be less afraid of some things like Juno

[sand cradle]

I'm not experienced enough to speak properly about juno, but can't you haegang junos?

[proven bough]

yeah draft does have the most impact at the point where your runes/artis are at least okay

[sand cradle]

as a rag abuser, I like that they pick juno on me so I never really placed much thought into it

[inland tartan]

fundamentally yeah Haegang gets a lot of value out of Juno but he also gives her a lot of debuffs to heal off of. historically my Haegang-into-Juno fights, she's ended up soloing me lol

[proven bough]

if you don't bring buffers vs juno, haegang loses to her long term

since he doesn't do much vs her other than the s2 strip

and a small boost if she cleanses

[inland tartan]

meanwhile he'll despair-stun her every time he touches her and give her free healing lol

[proven bough]

yeah

so far it looks like you're doing well tho, let me know if you get some more losses

[inland tartan]

[inland tartan]

I do have one that I think I should have lost but I sacked - I feel like I should have done something different/better in the draft. bans were Leo and Han, Chiwu missed glancing on Verde and I countered and stole the turn. from there I slowly whittled Oliver down (managed to silence Zibala so he couldn't freeze, Verde helped me get turns through Oliver shenanigans)

[proven bough]

could rune up a nem trap to counter woonsa

like a fran or tablo

[inland tartan]

just nem nem will and squishy? how fast should I aim to be, assuming a 320+ish before-lead Woonsa?

[proven bough]

can even be triple nem if it's a dedicated woonsa counter

the nem trap is pretty easy to trigger, so like +150-160 already works I'm pretty sure

[inland tartan]

hmm will gives me a slight safeguard into robos, Moore and Zibala so it's more usable, but a 3rd nem is more of a guaranteed steal into Woonsa, Triton, etc that hard-contests turn 1 and strips anyway. I'll see what I can drum up for each - I think triple nem focuses more on the specific things I have issues with and my wills are probably stretched thin now anyway lol

[proven bough]

nem nem will is pretty risky vs robos, they just pushback on the last hit to undo the nem

[carmine ingot]

Here are your builds.

Tablo *

#1 Nemesis,Nemesis,Will

SPD,CDmg,ATK%

HP: 18351
DEF: 1109
ATK: 1787
SPD: 251
CR: 44%
CD: 154%
ACC: 8%
RES: 45%
E.HP: 92149
Effcy: 100.10%

#2 Nemesis,Nemesis,Nemesis

SPD, HP%, ATK%

HP: 24372
DEF: 1003
ATK: 1773
SPD: 252
CR: 47%
CD: 78%
ACC: 30%
RES: 33%
E.HP: 113341
Effcy: 98.55%

provided by SWOP

[inland tartan]

not sure if either of these really fit the bill, my runes are kinda thin here and my nems are really rough actually - a lifetime of very little necro farming is not paying off

I kinda like the triple nem more but I'm worried it's too tanky lol

also semi-unrelated but I runed up wind monkey to try into Moore CP teams - they usually have a hefty amount of AOE and wind monkey seems like a good option for punishing them without needing to move (as long as he doesn't get despair-stunned)

[forest shard]

wait rlly

[carmine ingot]

Ragdoll (Dark Dragon Knight)

Wikia

3. Tooth For a Tooth (Passive)

Reflects 15% of damage back to the enemy when you're attacked. Also Increases the Attack Bar of all allies by 10% if an ally receives a Critical Hit. [Automatic Effect]

Pos. Effects

Increase ATB (15%)
Reflect DMG (15%)

provided by SWARFARM

[forest shard]

oh yea 15 lol

i think i mistaken it with tesa's passive

[vernal urchin]

is it actually 15% dmg red

i thought it just reflects 15% but no reduction

ragdolls always kinda just die anyway

[dense dragon]

i thought its just reflect too

[vernal urchin]

can we get this tested

who is a ragdoll owner

[dense dragon]

@sand cradle

[vernal urchin]

@jade grove

[proven bough]

reflection is reduction

same with alex and lydia

it's kinda weird but reflect in passives also negate that damage

[vernal urchin]

i didnt know those 2 had reduction either

[proven bough]

yea they do

[vernal urchin]

its a case of 2us wording ig

[inland tartan]

any time it says "reflect" then yeah, it reduces as well. pretty sure even dark golem does lol, as opposed to something like Jultan that says "deal 12% of your max hp on the attacker" or whatever

@proven bough either of those tablo builds seem usable for nem traps?

[proven bough]

I'd say the left one is safer

since it's squishier

[inland tartan]

k I'll give it a shot, prob rune up Ken while I'm at it so I can actually start using Leo counters lol

when running Leo traps is it safer to have 2 ready to protect against 1 being banned, or would the goal be to either draw the ban to the trap and ban the Leo or get them both through?

unrelated - had to restart because of stupid play beta hyper-v nonsense so lost those builds but here's what I settled on, don't actually hate it

[carmine ingot]

Here is your build.

Tablo *

#1 Nemesis,Nemesis,Will

SPD, ATK%, ATK%

HP: 17742
DEF: 968
ATK: 2224
SPD: 255
CR: 51%
CD: 66%
ACC: 4%
RES: 22%
E.HP: 80335
Effcy: 92.30%

provided by SWOP

[sand cradle]

Hi who requires me?

[dense dragon]

doesnt matter now

[inland tartan]

bad ban - Clara lp should have telegraphed the HAegang ban, should have banned Clara and just oblivioned and kill Julianne. also Oliver pick was kinda sus now that I think about it, maybe Verad instead

might have been fine if Clara didn't get a 4man stun turn 1 and I couldn't proc out of it

rematch v the same guy, this time robo and Julianna bans. Moore outsped me and stripped everyone, followed by Karnal 3man stun (Masha got a turn so she had immunity). maybe should have thrown in a swift mon instead of Oliver to try and secure turn 1?

[rapid mist]

Imo the masha was a sus pick at that point in the draft

But otherwise the draft was OK imo

Just the masha

I would've banned moore

No speed lead + no strip

Problem is that you don't have 2 strip there either because of masha

[inland tartan]

hmm true, my only reason for running Masha that early was for someone to nuke Vero with, but he already had Moore on the field and had a lot of room to run Abellio like he did which made her less effective. I could have gone wind robo maybe - secures a swift threat (even if he is only 296) and another strip

[rapid mist]

Yeah imo wind robo would've been better

Mine is +196 swift/will

[inland tartan]

I think I'm also being too scared of Julianne, I should try fighting him more. haven't fought him since right after his buff and he smashed me every time because he's bullshite lol

[rapid mist]

Neph and Leo ban

Julianne is scary but he needs to move for that

[inland tartan]

Interesting, Shan obviously aside it does look a lot like a team I would run, except for some reason Julianne would usually steal a turn with nem and smash a robo, leaving me with little/no control left to lock them all down until dead. Wondering if the Shan speed buff is keeping you ahead of him long enough to get your control back, and/or if the Taor (and Shan again) is enough raw aggression that you can kill some of his team before he has a chance to cut

[forest shard]

yea shan taor neph is like 2 kills guarantee

[inland tartan]

Obviously I can't quite replicate that but I could try something like Savannah to do something kinda similar but I doubt I'd be able to give her decent runes at this point lol. But the idea of "bring a lot of threat" could still work with something like Masha instead, in the right scenarios

[forest shard]

nah u cant replicate that, it's a whole diff story with shan lmao

maybe lag can replace it idk

just for the nuke

but shan s3 is like way superior

[inland tartan]

Yeah, only other mons that can speed buff and pushback in 1 skill are tablo and sav so that's where that came from lol. But no replacing "massive nuke with guaranteed crit"

[inland tartan]

Kinda random thought, what should I do when I see rev Verde come through with turn 1 mons? Something like Vanessa Ethna Verde, or Oliver Zibala Verde? My initial thought is pivot to Douglas Antares (depending on the rest of the comp) but is there something more reliable I can shoot for?

We've determined that competing in speed is dangerous without premium swift sets, and banning out the lead or the turn 1 puts me at the mercy of Verde rev stealing the turn and running me over

[rapid mist]

Without neph it's 1 kill at best

[rapid mist]

That's why I mainly run t1.5 now I don't have premium swift sets so I can't speed contest

Even with shan/taor I run neph haegang laima/robo a lot which isn't a t1 comp

[inland tartan]

do you just count on haegang despair procs against rev verde? or do you have someone moving ahead of your other strippers to lock him down?

[rapid mist]

Haegang can glance verd so even if he revenges on haegang he won't crit

Basically my tuning is: robo -> haegang -> laima -> neph -> shan -> taor -> other units

But I don't really draft robo anymore unless I can go for a t1 aggressive comp that doesn't need laima's sustain

[inland tartan]

so you run haegang a lot then or is he still a more reactive pick? I've had mixed results with him - a lot of times I'm too low on damage esp into Juno/Vero comps, but maybe that's an issue with my followup draft

[rapid mist]

I run haegang a lot

[inland tartan]

that's actually interestingly versatile - Neph Haegang robo (on will) - it gives you 2 slots to pivot however you need, you have 2 strips, control, and a lot of debuffs already. if you're willing, could I see your haegang's runes? I feel like mine comes up a little short but as it usually is, I think it's a matter of finding the right time/place for him (FYI +13 s2 acc so 84 functional acc)

[rapid mist]

I can make him better but I'd need giou runes

[inland tartan]

whoa high cd, I'm guessing that's mostly just for tuning purposes and not just praying for an RNG crit lol. so mine should work how he is then, good reassurance thanks

[rapid mist]

Yeah it's for tuning

[rapid mist]

@inland tartan

I do this kind of drafts for t2/rag comps

[inland tartan]

Nice, thanks. My only decent res tank set is on rat right now but he hasn't been working in my preferred kind of comp so debating giving that to Riley

[rapid mist]

My riley is vio/nem 100% res

[inland tartan]

if I gave Riley my rat's set here's how it'd look (pre-artis). Kinki is already runed and I could always run Woosa over Laima in a case like that where there isn't a lot to strip - obv not the same but comparable in cases where I just need some cover

[rapid mist]

Solid ngl

If I didn't have a secret nem pick I could do a way faster riley

If you want to see smth else lmk

[inland tartan]

interesting take on Kinki, a little slower than mine but more combat stats. I'm guessing he's more for bruisery battles where he's less at-risk of getting stunned and sitting half the match?

[rapid mist]

He's purely anti cleave and t2 comps

But yeah if you want to see any other units let me know

[inland tartan]

Thanks! I'll let you know

[sand cradle]

mine is similiar, but I swapped nem for revenge and it feels pretty nice too

revenge lets you heal when oliver controls you from time to time

[inland tartan]

I'mma try nem for now 1) because it was easy to just throw rat runes onto her, and 2) it's nice to bring into Giana and Zibala too (if Zibala can even proc a tick of nem with s3 lol)

[inland tartan]

close loss but a loss nonetheless, and I even sacked a bit with wind robo double-res on Oliver and Masha res on Chiwu s2. I think I maybe should have gone Kinki instead of Masha to either draw the ban away from Haegang and get early turns back or basically solo him

also bad luck with dark robo only stunning juno lol

[inland tartan]

another much less close loss - I want to say it was sacking (Shizuka proc out of silence turn 1, rat proc every turn after) but I also think I was a bit hasty going to Kinki Riley - especially since Kinki stayed stunned from Haegang most of the match >.>

[rapid mist]

Like I said riley kinki Is mostly for t2 stuff and haegang rat doesn't say t2

First pick shiz in g1+ as I've been seeing means they're gonna pick rag like 90%+ of the time

[proven bough]

yeah

[inland tartan]

Yeah I got too eager to try it out and jumped the gun - saw rat and thought he was gonna lean turn 2 but Haegang doesn't really say that. I should be looking more for Karnal, Mo, maybe Shiz, stuff that's solidly "I'm gonna move after everyone else and try to make a big impact"

[rapid mist]

Yep basically but karnal can also be used in a t1 comp

[inland tartan]

I probably should have gone dark/wind robo Masha/Taor instead and just tried to keep in front and smash someone

I've noticed that dark robo has a bit of trouble into Haegang though - if I strip and stun it's a pretty sizable boost and I don't even get the stun in the end. Maybe I should rune up Chiwu or something specifically for Haegang, or I can try running Tiana I guess

[rapid mist]

Chiwu is worse than dark robo into haegang

[inland tartan]

Oh wait fack right, with the glancing now he's gonna cleanse it. Yeah scratch that

[vernal urchin]

damn where is my rag

im a shizu firstpicker

[rapid mist]

I didn't say it was the case all the time but most of it it's the case

[vernal urchin]

ok deal give me seimei and keep ragdoll

[rapid mist]

I don't have either

[rapid mist]

I tried using tiana but tbh I didn't really like it

[inland tartan]

Yeah early Tiana feels a little janky is my concern

[rapid mist]

Like yes the s2 does good damage if neph goes through but without neph it's pretty bad

• she can't speed contest

[inland tartan]

Wind robo into rat feels

[rapid mist]

It's not horrible

[inland tartan]

But maybe if I did wind robo Taor, robo could still push back more than Haegang boosts and no fear of cleanse boost, Taor can follow up as needed

[rapid mist]

Yeah most of the time robo pushes more or equal to haegang's boost

[inland tartan]

And rats gonna be on nem so no boost, okay not hating this idea

[rapid mist]

Yep

[inland tartan]

I'm bad at thinking 2 steps ahead so I worry a bit too much about wind control into rat/Juno/fire in general but I think I just need to make sure I draft good follow-up to deal with them. Taor in 2/3 pick is a little earlier than I normally like but I still have room to pivot to Leo counters or ban him if it seems better

Mind showing me your Taor when you get a sec? Trying to decide if I should put some acc into mine to give him more reliable control

[rapid mist]

Keep in mind I only play him with shan

Yours would need to be faster

[inland tartan]

that's a pretty good Taor. right now mine's tuned to Neph (well before I reruned her) but without speed buff yeah it's kinda rough so get the guaranteed crit on s2 into anything in the turn 1 / 1.5 range. and the low acc means I'm not getting a lot of slows/pushbacks into things like rat or shiz

[carmine ingot]

Here is your build.

Taor *

#1 Violent,Will

SPD,CDmg,HP%

HP: 26190
DEF: 1074
ATK: 1714
SPD: 260
CR: 41%
CD: 130%
ACC: 51%
RES: 21%
E.HP: 128304
Effcy: 101.94%

provided by SWOP

[inland tartan]

I could try something like this - similarly tanky, bit faster, little bit less damage but way better acc

[rapid mist]

Seems better ngl

[inland tartan]

ya, just takes from Miles and Josephine but I rarely use either (and try not to as much since I'm not as familiar with running them right lol)

and if I can land a slow and proc I can even get the guaranteed s2 crit more easily so yeah I think I'mma do it

[rapid mist]

Yeah I have acc for juno/rat/camilla mainly

Well it's always good to just pushback to hit s2 on def break with neph if possible

[inland tartan]

ya but in my case he goes after neph so he'd be the followup either way

[rapid mist]

My shan goes after neph incase I need to s2 on the spot

[inland tartan]

so here's a slightly different take - this is a match I won but it was really clutch. I think the CP was maybe a rough choice since he had a lot of room to counter it - maybe if I did Neph DarkRobo so I had room for something more aggressive?

Bans were Masha Lucia

[rapid mist]

Imo it's the wind robo that was a bit sus here

[inland tartan]

hmm interesting, my usual strat into Sekh is to just throw out so much control that they can only reset one and I still get the rest. maybe I could have taken Juno here instead - she does pretty well into all 3 of those picks (shiz jamire sekh)

[rapid mist]

Yeah juno would've been better

[inland tartan]

a recent loss. thinking maybe I should have either 1) banned the rat instead of the vero (too scared of Vero sneaking turns and keeping everyone topped off the whole match), or 2) picked Haegang instead of CP and used my last slot for something like Masha to bring more threat so either way I'd have a nuke pick come through

[forest shard]

what was the ban

[inland tartan]

Taor/Vero

I think I also could have gone Taor over Haegang and Masha 5th and just banned rat if the draft went similar - masha or taor can delete vero on the off chance he doesn't just ban neph at that point

fwiw I did get close but 3 turn rat too op. proc out of silence, s2 self, proc again and suddenly everyone's healthy again lol

[inland tartan]

I think in general I have to make sure when I draft Haegang I need 2 slots for really aggressive picks. I keep running into this issue where I have a lot of control but not enough damage and it makes me really weak to these rat/juno/vero picks

[forest shard]

yea the haegang pick is more like a counter pick ngl, you can't use him as a main threat unless you have a lot of insane follow up that can make up your lack of damage

[inland tartan]

Maybe in a case like this where they pick a unit that can flex between turn 1 or turn 2 and has some good threat on its own (Miles, Ethna, whatever) I can open with Neph Haegang and move into wind/dark robo Taor/Masha (whatever looks more appropriate) and then lp as needed. I realize now he couldn't run Leo to counter Taor when he already had Miles Vanessa Rat on the field so I shouldn't have been so scared of it

hey it worked out really well actually - I crushed this guy and didn't even lose Taor lmao. Robo/Josephine bans

[analog violet]

verad food

[forest shard]

imagine having a verad

[rapid mist]

Yeah... I don't have verad

[tidal warren]

yea haegang early is really something only the wedjat owners can afford

usually you want him 4/5p into a draft whose strips dont pushback much

[rapid mist]

He's usually my second pick

No wedjat

[tidal warren]

"usually"

[rapid mist]

Yeah because he's not in my t2 comp

But t1-t1.5 he is

Which is what I mostly draft

[tidal warren]

i meant my own usually

also why is this relevant to this thread

[rapid mist]

Because I also first pick neph like him and spam haegang a lot? The only thing he has to learn is what first picks he can go haegang alr

[tidal warren]

i really dont like neph hae early

because youre picking 2 units that effectively do 0 damage

you also automatically leave yourself super open to vero/tetra

sure, theres options for the neph player into those too from that point

but imo its way easier to draft something else

[rapid mist]

The problem is that if you don't pick hae you have do deal with hae + vero + juno + tetra picks which becomes really hard

While if you pick hae you just need taor + another dd to deal with the other picks

[tidal warren]

i mean, you can just pivot into snipe from neph fp if you see all of those early

thats not any harder than drafting into vero/tetra with neph hae early

anyway, i think we can both agree hae wasnt the pick in the miles nessa racuni game

[rapid mist]

Yeah he wasn't in that match for sure

[inland tartan]

Yeah this is what I've been noticing lately - if they grab Haegang then it's hard for me to get ahead of them without getting cut, and then Juno/Vero start getting turns that just keep my damage low. But in that last match, if I go Neph Haegang early (if I'm not sure how their comp is gonna turn out yet) I can flex either fast with lower damage to contest turn 1.5 into low/no sustain or I can just hit the gas with high damage if they slow down

I also don't really have snipes runed so pivoting into that isn't an option ATM. Maybe I can rune up Sonia to try and pop Veros/Tetras but even then I think I'd need at least 1 or 2 others to round out a good comp and I'm not sure who I could run

[tidal warren]

if you do want to pick hae early, i think you have to have answers for the miles racuni pivot ready

since youll be seeing that a lot i think

[inland tartan]

yeah I think early Haegang is going to bring a lot of turn 2 with a few aggressive picks like Miles or maybe Vanessa Ethna. Would need to play around with it more but I think I can make it work with Taor and Masha, debating even Savannah for another aggressive flex pick. Worst case, there's always Tesa to just drop oblivions on everyone lol. And with a 1 or 2 robos I can run control if they don't have a lot of sustain. but gotta learn when and how to pick the right things

[inland tartan]

a good match that I won - not sure I drafted super well (verde was vio, 3rev would have been scary) and I misplayed by using dark robo s3 at a bad time but I was still able to hold him down fairly well despite missing freeze on Josephine. But man, fack Haegang Racuni comps

I still struggle into these Oliver Sekh teams though forgot my tiana was on nem, not will so that was a bad lp on my part - if she was on will I think I could have held him down and gotten some kills

[rapid mist]

I mean even if she was on will; what if they ban neph? You go s3 robo which may glance on sonia or one of the fire units?

[inland tartan]

Yeah I feel like I had to ban Sonia here but I think that's only because I didn't draft in a way that discouraged her. Not used to properly dealing with Oliver Sekhmet Zibala yet so when I see some combination of those I'm not sure what to run. Maybe Jamire instead of wind robo and then force a ban on Leo LP?

[rapid mist]

Mhw should do great against those

[inland tartan]

Tfw no fire monke

[rapid mist]

Leo lp should be fine but ngl most of the time they will ban him so you probably have to ban Sonia anyways

[inland tartan]

Ya it would just force the ban onto someone to ensure I get Neph Juno and some control but I think the wind robo would have had to have been something more threatening still

[inland tartan]

think this was a sack but just in case - Neph and Lora bans. Ryu goes first and pushes everyone back enough that I couldn't cut with haegang passive

maybe should have banned CP since it was his only reliable AOE pushback? Or Moore since he was the only strip+pushback and hope that Haegang was enough to cut after Lora?

[rapid mist]

Imo the ban was 50/50 here

Either you ban Lora predicting haegang ban or moore predicting neph/wind robo ban

[inland tartan]

hmmm validating - I expected a Haegang ban which was why I banned Lora, but he banned Neph lol

[rapid mist]

Also how do you counter shiz here?

You have no cd reset here so if she proc you lose

[inland tartan]

plan was to kill Oliver and CP before she even had a chance to proc - worst case if she did proc I'd have immunity on Masha and it'd be 4v3, maybe 4v2 if I could get a Masha proc or two

[rapid mist]

Well problem with that is oliver is generally on high res so masha won't break def him most of the time so no kill there

[inland tartan]

ye that was part of the "he's gonna ban Haegang" issue. Banning neph took that away

[rapid mist]

Maybe you can kill cp but moore + oli + shiz is enough to win tbh

[inland tartan]

hmm I wanted a wind mon there over Masha ideally but I don't have a lot of good aggressive wind mons atm. vio Ethna maybe but I feel like that would rely on getting a good proc at a good time (and/or straight-up deleting a def broken Shiz)

maybe another good case to try and get Sonia running - with a Lora ban I could still probably delete CP and focus everyone else on Oliver

[inland tartan]

had a turn 1 draft that I think I countered pretty well. bans were Leo and Tesa. Haegang is really good into Chiwu and Diana ate all those water mons like nbd

[forest shard]

Diana ate all those water mons like nbd

[inland tartan]

jfc that's horrifying lmao. anyway here's another won match, I think I'm learning how to draft into these turn 2 teams fairly well. didn't even bother refreshing CP turn 1 with Jamire, just let dark robo run everyone down and Taor freeze everyone but Giou, THEN did Jamire s3 and let everyone run wild. Taor OP

[forest shard]

yea taor is really the answer for those tanky team, and he's cosplaying Livert for some reason

i think Lag is also a good one against speedy team too because his base is nice

[inland tartan]

ya my lag is unskilled rn. literal skill issue lmao

[forest shard]

what did u ban? anavel?

[inland tartan]

was on the fence but banned monke so he couldn't stack up just enough to nuke someone. he banned neph of all things. focused Anavel so she wouldn't get a cleanse off - Taor made quick work of her

I probably could have gone the other way to be safe too - ban Anavel and pop the monke instead. but I figured either CP was making it or Neph+Taor was making it so Anavel would be easier to control if I had to rely on CP

[forest shard]

i think with your draft most of the time neph will be the ban when fighting turn 2

[inland tartan]

ya I should probably get used to it - I always think they're gonna ban something else (like here I thought Taor would be a really high priority ban) but then they ban Neph and I'm like

[inland tartan]

first match of the night and wasn't thinking super clearly - I think I should have gone Haegang over dark robo to insulate myself from strips a little better. that or commit to a cleave and hope he didn't fight me on that lol. the way I drafted I needed verde to not counter wind robo, which he did, and then woosa got his shield up and I couldn't get any momentum

[forest shard]

why dont u just ban verd and let your last 2 picks(which one of them will make it through) and neph do the job?

he has to pick between 2 strippers with ATB push back or 2 nukers

[inland tartan]

I think yeah, the Chiwu threw me off really hard because until then I didn't think I'd have to contest speed at all, but with the Chiwu pick I knew it was either "ban verde and get outsped (he banned neph so no lead) or ban chiwu and hope verde doesn't counter". I think that's the part that I needed to think ahead a little better

[forest shard]

the point is, always ask yourself, if i get outspd, will something really bad happen? in this case, outspd, strip push back, gany reset(BUT ONLY 1 UNIT) and then they have shield up with nothing else, u still have a strip(unless they ban 1 of the stripper and reset it with gany then GG, but for some reason they banned Neph). Or if verd counters (which is kinda bad because he will have too many turns after) will you lose instantly

i think he should have won easier with a robo ban and reset the other

[inland tartan]

stripping woosa with 2 robos with glancing (assuming one of them isn't reset) is kinda but yeah maybe that would have been more reliable, hard to say. I def have trouble shifting my mindset from "I'll outspeed nbd" to "oh now he can outspeed but that's fine I'll let him"

I can probably get around that concern a bit (robos into woosa) by having a more reliable full-stripper like CP or Haegang, maybe even Juno if I took it before he did

[forest shard]

yea i would say double robo is like only for people that doing turn 2

and woosa gany isnt seems like turn 2 but more like Gathor

which usually super fast swift verd in their pocket

[inland tartan]

rough night mostly into Moore CP teams but I managed to claw through this one thanks to Kinki. Riley/Miles bans

[forest shard]

isnt it free for double robo if u ban spd lead?

when i see it i always ethna race

just need to eat 1 hit from miles

[inland tartan]

hmm if I did double robo he could have gone Chiwu and banned Haegang which would turn it into a race between wind robo and chiwu - I'd probably lose that race

or at least that was my concern at the time

[forest shard]

u have haegang, u can ban robo and force that ryu to not using his s2 tho

is it possible

[inland tartan]

Might have been, I usually have rough luck running double robo into Moore CP comps but I don't think I have Haegang with them most of the time. I guess I was just a little too worried that he already had a lead and a high base spd on the field - whatever I picked 4th and 5th I was trying to think in terms of "what if I absolutely HAVE to ban his 5th?"

[forest shard]

maybe u need to be like me, inhale a large amount of sack and cope before doing matches

[rapid mist]

Or 2 if he procs

[forest shard]

true, then rat boost him and he goes 2 more turns

[inland tartan]

Hmm my Ethna is on vio still so racing with her not an option. I could race with Eshir or Lionel if I want to commit HARD but I can only do that with 4/5 and only if they've slowed down with their 2/3 (like this guy did) since I probably can't compete if we both go really hard on turn 1

[rapid mist]

That's why I don't compete but I have the lds that allows me to do that ngl

My fastest possible swift is +215 on a vigor

[inland tartan]

Yeah right now my best option seems to be Haegang wind robo but that tends to leave me open to Sekh/Ethna stuff and usually ends in a Haegang ban so I'm left trying to compete with just a 24lead 295 robo

So I need to figure out how to handle that in such a way that either Haegang makes it through and I can cut or whatever I'm left with can manage them still, whether that's tanking them out until I can get kills or getting ahead and locking them down

[inland tartan]

1st loss today, actually first time seeing an Aaliyah Bolverk combo so wasn't sure what to expect. Thought I could bust through with vio Ethna but wasn't able to kill Bolverk. Probably should have just banned him and brought something to deal with Juno instead, or banned Leo and went full control

[inland tartan]

a few more losses from today - I think I'm a little tilted so I'm taking a break lol. First match CP missed strips on Feng and Sekh (stole immunity), Sekh put glancing on everyone and Neph couldn't land anything through it. I think the Tesa should have been something like Masha or MAYBE Taor so I had a lot more kill potential instead of just putting oblivion down on fire monkey and then dying lol

2nd match, basically solo'd by Juno. Verad was a bad pick - he had to ban Taor so I needed more kill potential to make up for it

3rd match I think was a sack + outruned - Miles got 4 turns (proc, rat, proc) before I could even move and was dropping 14k on Neph after spd buff so she died immediately, got a kill on the Oliver pretty early but couldn't get through rat+Miles with Juno Jamire Masha. I probably should have expected the Leo ban (which was the point) and banned Miles instead of Tesa

[rapid mist]

What did you ban? Camilla?

Cause you had kinki + tesa to kill juno

[inland tartan]

yeah I was dumb and banned Juno because I was like "he'll only have water and Ethna will go brrrr" but I grossly overestimated Ethna's ability to kill such beefy tanks

[forest shard]

when u see bolv aaliyah, ban the aaliyah

[rapid mist]

Imo first match you needed a stripper instead of jamire altho I do get why the jamire

[inland tartan]

ya I matched this guy before and clapped him by doing dark robo instead of verad and lp Taor, should have done that again

[rapid mist]

Well it's mainly that with a cp ban you can't do anything for a turn cycle

Which is very bad

[forest shard]

jamire shouldnt be a main pick unless you pulled your whole combo in previous picks

and he will be the cherry on top to make the combo go again

[rapid mist]

Yeah but ig he picked jamire to counter the reset of sekhmet

Which wasn't a good idea here

But I get why he did it

[inland tartan]

^

[forest shard]

yea, i think jamire main pick is valuable into veronica, but not single target reset, because u will have more than 1 important AoE threat in the comp, instead of relying on a single unit

[rapid mist]

Its good against sek too tbh but you need to be able to support it

Which in that draft he didnt

2nd match as you said you needed more damage instead of verad

Altho maybe it would've been fine with a juno ban?

Since either he let's taor or haegang through

• neph/verad

[rapid mist]

3rd match I just don't get thr juno pick that early

[inland tartan]

yeah it was kind of a "let's try this" but it seemed like Juno can be nice into Sekh and I was hoping the threat of despair stuns could hold Oliver back from going crazy but it was a bit yolo. if I ran haegang windrobo I could have maybe gotten in between miles and rat I could have at least prevented the 4 turn 1round

I panic too much when I see Sekh I'm noticing, I worry "she's gonna reset someone and I'm gonna do nothing round 1 and they'll just run me over" but I think I need to keep focused on the fact she can only reset 1 - get between her and the rest with everyone else

[inland tartan]

this was the first match against the "look at me I'm livert" guy, and a much better example of how I should Jamire into Sekh. Lots of go to refresh

[inland tartan]

doing okay so far today - 4W and 2L. 1st loss was my brain completely shutting down and picking things that made no sense, and I still panic into sekh until I can get used to drafting around her. I think I should have LP dark robo and banned Sekh and just smashed through him with a bunch of cc but I'm still really shaky into these Oliver Sekhmet aggressive teams

2nd match was just Kiki resisting all robo strip/pushbacks and proccing turn 1 to just slather my team in debuffs lol. couldn't land anything through glancing and couldn't keep up through slow

[forest shard]

im thinking about telling u to make double chimera

[inland tartan]

What like running swift lagmaron and just trying to smack people?

Feel like I'd rather just try to get Sonia back up but my swifts are kinda butt right now

[forest shard]

yea taor only isnt enough

2 chimeras let u smack down people faster

in matches that u dont need too much CC

but need to take down the target asap

def break + 2 chimeras, i dont think u can miss a kill unless u let Leo through

[inland tartan]

Masha is normally my other kill threat, I either get her and Taor or I get Neph and one of them. But I am a little low on wind nuke threats v true

[forest shard]

yea, wind nuke + guaranteed crit + stun, i think he fits CC team more than masha tho, masha is just a counterpick (for me) ngl

[inland tartan]

She kinda flails into water (like Camilla Miles woosa etc) but she also pairs super well with neph because of her passive change to just gain atb per debuff

Having something like Sonia or Lag would give me more options into water heavy stuff though

[forest shard]

i think lag is better than sonia in your team tho

maybe some niche sonia game but idk

[inland tartan]

Ya but lag no skills so a little rough

[forest shard]

we cope hard

[inland tartan]

[rapid mist]

That's my strat ayo

[forest shard]

Imagine having a shan

[rapid mist]

The no ragdoll guy banned taor kekw

I deleted him from existence

The rag dude banned neph and I also deleted him but it was closer

[inland tartan]

Shan stronk, not really anyone that can replace him lol

[rapid mist]

Yeah ik

It's just funny to punch through with no def break

[inland tartan]

Need a squalmera bonk

So I think yak is right - I need another high-threat mon I can draft instead of Masha into water-heavy teams. Something that can kinda fill the spot you use Shan for while obviously not doing everything he does. Was considering wind Kass or Lag but neither is fully skilled

Or maybe Sav so I can get the speed boost in there too but idk

[rapid mist]

I haven't tried wind kass - couldn't cp on damage be on option?

[inland tartan]

I think my CP has all the damage I can squeeze out of him and still be tuned, unless maybe I can run him on cr 4. But what I just realized is that the speed buff from Shan heavily enables Taor when they both make it through

And right now my Taor has been missing a lot of crits so he can't get his buff up

[rapid mist]

Yeah that's true

Altho I generally shan s3 + taor s2 t1

So I think taor should be able to crit with slow?

[inland tartan]

Yeah if I could work a slow in that would work too, need to see what kinds of options I have. Poseidon is a choice

[rapid mist]

What I meant to say is that taor should be able to crit on a mon slowed by his s3

So imo you just need another dd that either profits off his s3 or just do pure dmg a bit like his s2

Cause ngl my chimeras are on spd cd hp and they still nuke even without break def

[inland tartan]

Oh I see, that's true. That's kinda why I thought of wind Kass, she has the same s2 as for Kass which ignores def so she can still be a threat. The downside is she needs cr which means she would need an insane set to keep up in damage AND tankiness

I guess if I tune Lag to go right behind Taor he'll be able to take advantage of the Taor slow, or he can s3 if Taor is banned and I need to hit someone faster than him, but then if Taor is banned I don't have a slow so I'd be relying on a natural s2 crit into anyone faster to get the buff up

[rapid mist]

There an example of how my comp works @inland tartan

You could say that I got pretty unlucky too -> missed to strip shiz -> didn't push back Julianne -> juno rev stunned me -> juno moved and stunned shan

So tbh taor pretty much did all the work

[inland tartan]

Yeah gotcha, if nothing else I need something with moderate to high threat that can still eat some hits. Shan pulled a lot of attention away from Taor which let him pop off

[rapid mist]

Yeah true but what I meant is that shan should've pulled up his s2 at least once

But the rng didn't allow it

So taor had to do everything by himself which ngl is impressive seeing the comp I was facing

[inland tartan]

ya def

ya he basically got 1 s3 off, which Taor didn't even s2 after, and then he died a few rounds later lol

[rapid mist]

Yeah like I told you t1 I do both s3s - it's mainly to gain turn advantage tho

Than I pew pew win

[inland tartan]

so Lag could kinda fit that mold okay - I can't put up a speed buff so I'm not gaining a massive turn advantage but I'd be able to Taor s3 -> land some slows -> Lag s2 for nukes. But without skillups that cycle would be kinda long so I'd need to make sure I could put out enough damage to turn the match

[inland tartan]

so I just remembered my vios are spread to basically nothing now, so I can't rune anything vio unless I strip Oliver, Woosa, Verad, Ethna, Tesa or Riley lol. All seem to have a fairly strong niche I draft them into so it's hard to strip one for an unskilled Lag. I do have at least one decent despair set still so thinking of finding a home for that - the Sav or Poseidon ideas still seem okay for getting that turn advantage up at least. esp Sav + Taor for spd buff and debuff combo

[inland tartan]

actually I lied, thanks to Lag's nice base spd I could actually make him decent on vio. had to speed Taor up a bit to ensure he stayed ahead but didn't lose too much in the way of stats - low-3-digit hp and low-2-digit atk for 3spd

[dense dragon]

is your slot 4 not maxed? or is it hp

also lag feels kinda meh in cc cleave

[inland tartan]

it's uhhhhh.......... it's 5* lmao a testament to how spread my vios are atm

he's mostly a pocket-pick for when I need more threat and not as much cc - get turns and just dunk people. gives a choice between "eat neph def break and a squall" or "eat so many squals every other turn" (except for the lack of skillups part >.>)

slight change of plans - if they're dumb enough to give me Neph Taor Lag he and Taor will be tied so running this instead

[dense dragon]

I think u should run ethna wind robo or even Charlotte over him

there isn't enough water threats like that for cc tbf

taor squal also basically ignores element so lag is quite literally just a worse version of him and imo only works in those speed cabrera cleaves

also using units with scuffed runes is never the angle xd

[inland tartan]

I see where you're coming from. I'm trying to find ways of bringing in more threat that don't basically melt into Miles or someone if they manage to take out Taor or Neph, and obviously I can't perfectly replicate whale's Shan strats but it's an option at least. Tbh I can see myself using Sav - I'm getting the speed buff advantage with extra def break in case of Neph ban, I'm just losing out on that 2nd big squall nuke

[dense dragon]

sav is decent too if you can rune her well

like on despair spd cr atk maybe

with max acc

[inland tartan]

For now got her on atk 4 with low crit but had to leave before I could cook some cr strats so still playing with it. I need to make sure I have kill potential of they can a Taor and I have to push through someone fairly tanky

[dense dragon]

id run her like this if i did run her

a bit too fast in this case

but tuned to strippers

[inland tartan]

Ya my first shot was tankier at the cost of cr but got more cooking to do when I get home. I think the spd buff and random despair stuns could be big

[dense dragon]

do u have a tomoe?

[inland tartan]

Nope, or Charlotte btw lol. Both would be great

[dense dragon]

ah rip

[inland tartan]

little squishier than I'd like but they can't kill her if they're already dead

[dense dragon]

that looks good enuf tbf

[inland tartan]

yeah the goal is either I get her+Neph, her+Taor, or Neph+Taor - any combination is nasty if they're not being threatened really badly

[inland tartan]

managed to pivot decently against this guy but I think he also banned poorly - haegang and laima bans. he tried to kill riley but couldn't get through her, snuck 1 turn in, cleansed provoke off of Kinki, and nuked half his team

[dense dragon]

he got triton sagar and bans haegang? xd

but ye I noticed the neph hae riley combo is kinda sick nasty

[inland tartan]

He committed so hard to taking turn 1 and cd resetting that I just needed to tank him out. Kin-ki and monkey revenges did half the work lol. The Laima would have been really annoying without a stripper though

[inland tartan]

k, got a chance to try Lag and he didn't work out great. I got a few good rounds through but was unable to kill the Shiz before she could s3, which gave him just enough turns to kill Taor and Lag leaving me with basically nothing. So yeah, Lag needs his skillups for faster s2 spam if I want to punch through people fast enough

I also think I should have banned monkey instead of Mookwol - I overthought and thought he'd ban Tiana, meaning I'd have to try and strip/cc through glancing. But he banned Neph like I should have expected by now

this I'm 99.9% sure was just a massive sack - robo missed literally all strips and his whole team got through and smashed me immediately

[inland tartan]

he thought I would have to ban Leo but tbh I probably could have still since I forced his ban onto Douglas but fack the rat, still won

[dense dragon]

keeping Leo in in smart tbf since you gut ethna and miles dmg

[inland tartan]

Exactly lol I think he thought I'd have to ban it for Taor but Miles Leo Ethna is

Was still kinda close - closer than I would have liked because my damage was kinda low. But it all worked out

[inland tartan]

1st loss of the day, I think a bit of bad luck and bad decision making. missed strip on Vivachel and used sav s3 instead of stripping her so Taor could lock everyone down

was too concerned with getting speed buff up and didn't think about the fact that a cleanse onto Shizuka basically ends it for me

[inland tartan]

aight, got a win where I'm not sure on the draft. Bans were Taor and Josephine. I killed Vanessa with the Neph+Masha combo and slowly worked on Vero through Lucia and Camilla healing (Lucia was the main problem, robo controlled Camilla pretty well). I feel like if he focused on Masha more earlier I could have been in trouble - especially if he got some good procs from Camilla. Thoughts on how I could have played this one differently or am I overthinking how dangerous this was?

[forest shard]

Most of the time camilla nessa means racuni fire mk so idk if the robo pick was good or not. Should be a tesa as an early force ban to see what will they draft. Last 2 can be single target nuke or 2 aoe follow ups

Haegang into camilla is smort to get free atb but he provides almost nothing first turn into their team because they’re prop off will anyway. So neph cp tesa as first 3 picks will be my choice. Take it with a grain of salt

[inland tartan]

All good, interesting thoughts. I mainly grabbed Haegang early to discourage something like an Ethna and stop him from taking it against me (Haegang+passive cleanse is annoying af lmao)

[inland tartan]

@rapid mist what's your go-to strat into Josephine? I'm finding that I hit a wall when I have Neph Hae WindRobo and they grab Josephine and then they lp a force-ban like Leo - Josephine passive deters me from using a lot of my aoe skills or stuns and I just get run over

[rapid mist]

Ignore her - I do my skills as usual and focus her cause the only way she's annoying is if she procs every turn to have the passive again

[inland tartan]

gotcha, too paranoid. kill everyone as planned

examples of being too scared of her I think. also fack Sekhmet

[rapid mist]

Imo woosa was a bad pick there

[inland tartan]

yeah realized way too late that it just gives Sekh a ton of buffs to steal and have s3 every turn

[rapid mist]

Verad or smth else would've been better

[inland tartan]

ya didn't want to verad or dark robo because too afraid of Josephine

[rapid mist]

I feel like dark robo will make you too weak into the fmk

[inland tartan]

ya I think I needed another water threat that could deal with the monke. could have just done Kinki I guess

or ban the shiz and pick something to pressure the Leo since Leo+MHW is kind of a troll combo - no bonus spd

[vernal urchin]

Josie dies to cp sagar thats what i'v noticed as a josie user

Dunno if u have cp, think u said u didnt

But sagar still a nice pick

[inland tartan]

I've got both - yak is the one without CP lol. Can't rune Sagar though, not faster than 260 anyway. No chance of tuning him to my strippers

I did have a good match into Josie last night where she got 1 turn off, got stunned and sat there the rest of the match (and got a reset halfway through) so yeah you and whale are both right - I can kinda ignore her as long as she doesn't pop off, and getting her reset makes her pretty weak

[dense dragon]

put him on swift

like slow swift

he really screws over those haegang pickers

this how i got mine and he does the job

xd

[inland tartan]

As the Haegang abuser I can confirm that swift Sagar is pretty annoying so I've been considering it lol. But my Haegang game is usually pretty strong with Kin-ki Riley. Honestly my main problem right now is still these mf Oliver Sekhmet guys, without MHW I'm having trouble keeping pace and pressure with my CDs constantly reset lmao

[vernal urchin]

noway u did that pun

cant u masha oliver sekky

[inland tartan]

Not sure what pun I did but it definitely wasn't intended. I would have called it out if it was lmao. My main problem with Masha is that half the time they have Miles too who basically 2shots her, AND he counters Kin-ki pretty well so both of the mons I want to bring are suddenly kinda sus

I might have been able to here now that I think about it though, Masha over Riley, ban the Laima and kill Moore so Masha/Kinki can basically solo

(tbf I would have won this one if his Moore didn't stun me on every hit until Laima got her s3 off)

[vernal urchin]

i dont think u win leona in a 1v1 witn kinki, no?

[inland tartan]

1v1 is kinda 50/50 - if I don't get stunned, counter and def break I can bust through her shield easily. This one, anyway - took her to 2/3 when that happened lol. but especially if I get def break and/or atk buff, she's nothing. just had to keep Laima down which, in hindsight, I should have banned her and eaten the reset from sekh

banked too hard on robo getting out ahead and locking everyone down so I could kill her before she did s3

debating trying this out - I don't really use Oliver or Shiz in these comps anyway, and a tanky aggressive fire threat with decent cc seems like he could take a lot of pressure off

got to try it right away and it did not work lol. robo got all his pushbacks on everyone, Sekh landed all 3 debuffs on Kinki Riley and Karnal (Neph was stunned by robo and def broken), and Oliver just smashed through everyone (did enough damage that def broken Kinki couldn't even counter)

another loss, rough morning already. he stripped Taor with YH, stunned him with Moore s1 and reset him with Oliver. I did robo s3 and his Oliver proc'd out of stun to reset him so I just couldn't get my footing. I think if Oliver hadn't proc'd I would have been okay - robo should have gotten his s2 off and I would have been able to take control. Or maybe I should have done robo s2 and tried to take enough atb from Oliver that I could s3 next turn (and hope Moore didn't pushback/stun him from passive proc)

[vernal urchin]

i assume ethna ban?

[inland tartan]

ya, haegang ban would have been trouble. best he could do with an ethna ban is boost Moore and I hope he doesn't push back robo but he didn't even need to - banned verad, ignored strip and just proc'd out of everything lol

[sand cradle]

if I may ask, how rough is it when you only pick one speed lead vs people who run double lead + a t1 mon like ethna/eshir?

[inland tartan]

I know I can't fight speed so running a 2nd doesn't do me much good so I pivot, but that's not been working out super well for me the past few days as the good players climb lol

I think I might need to try throwing Leo in

Or Antares are just yolo lmao

[vernal urchin]

Whats ur swifts at that you belive you cant contest?

Or lack of units aswell

[inland tartan]

My swifts aren't good lol. Eshir is my fastest at +206. And opening with Neph means in always starting at a lead disadvantage so if they go double 33 I'm doomed

[vernal urchin]

ok yeah that hurts, i can see why you dont wanna contest anything somehow thought u had slightly better swifts

[inland tartan]

I'm at the point where I think I need a quad swift (or usable broken) - my only quad spds are a fight 4 def with not-ideal subs and a pair of vios I don't use as broken sets because they're vios lol. everything else is just decently-good triples which doesn't work at this level

[vernal urchin]

huh? thats cope

my swift is only tripples with a 25 ''quad'' on offsets

and im at like what

+215 eshir?

not sure

211*

and they are all like 22 tripples

[inland tartan]

just checked - +207 with every slot being either 22 or 23 base lol. I could squeeze out 2 more speed with +5s or if I could role some 24-bases

[vernal urchin]

but i feel you there 0 24 or higher swift runes

[inland tartan]

k so I'm cooking up an idea to take into Oliver Sekhmet teams - Neph Haegang (wind/dark)robo Kinki Giou. Sekhmet goes turn 1 and resets either Giou or a stripper. If Giou, then I Haegang/robo and take control. if stripper/control/other, I Giou the Oliver and chunk him for a ton of HP plus fack with his cooldowns so I can come back ahead. if Haegang is banned I have Giou, if Giou is banned I have Kinki, if Kinki is banned I have Haegang robo AND giou. obv won't always work but might be a usable framework

[vernal urchin]

yeah giou is a oliver murderer

[inland tartan]

thought I would have enough control to hold them down but Nana was actually a problem - I killed her to pop her stack and then Oliver but they managed to whittle Taor down mostly with Juno s1s, after that I couldn't keep her stacks off. might need to cook something up to deal with Nana dragging fights out long enough that my squishier mons start dropping

[inland tartan]

maybe if I picked a force-ban like Tesa last and I got Neph through I would have been able to put out enough damage fast enough that I could rack up kills before they could whittle Taor down

[inland tartan]

brain is braining - maybe if I picked Ken last, banned Nana, either he bans Neph still and I get my Ken to 1shot Leo to make it a 3v4 into Oliver Camilla Juno which I should be able to control, or he bans Ken and I use Neph for setup and just start controlling and killing everyone? with def break + robo I could do a good amount of damage into Leo - if I could get a kill on him fast Taor would be able to clean up

[inland tartan]

@rapid mist you always have some pretty interesting takes since we run pretty similar comps. What do you think about my last loss and the one before (Oliver single-target-turn-1s)?

[vernal urchin]

Do you have shizuka?

[forest shard]

i think he has it

[vernal urchin]

Hmm would be too draft heavy, the tesa forceban is always a good idea into those passive heavy drafts since he also has alot of dmg

[rapid mist]

In the case where you pick Ken and the bans are: Ken - nana, you'll have an hard time killing anything without the support of taor.

Cause robo damage won't get you through juno camilla that easily

That's if you can even kill them before they just start healing everything else while controlling you

So you would've had to ban leo anyways imo

[inland tartan]

Yeah best case I would have had to somehow kill the Leo as fast as possible with Neph robo but Haegang and Taor would be doing me much good on that. Not sure what I should have grabbed at what point or if I just needed to somehow get through Nana faster

[inland tartan]

I do have Shizuka but I unruned her because I never figured out how to make her work lol. I don't think I won a single game with her

[vernal urchin]

hmm yeah shiz isnt that easy to play anymore

shes kinda rune hungry i feel like

not many have the runes to invest into a situational mon

better off runing ur gotostuff

[inland tartan]

Agreed. Looking back on it, maybe if I did Kin-ki over Taor and Tesa over Sav, Tesa is the ban, I ban Nana and Kin-ki almost solos

[inland tartan]

doubt he'd still pick Leo Nana though if I didn't have Taor on the field

[rapid mist]

She's on spd hp res to go against ragdoll stuff I'd they didn't fp her

It's not hard to rune neither is it too rune intensive tbh

[inland tartan]

my issue with shiz has always been knowing when and how to draft her and when and how to use her skills lol. never worked out for me and I think it's a little late in the season to be figuring it out lol

[vernal urchin]

well imo u want atleast 170 viowill 100 res accy cap and good survivability

not everyone can put that on a leftover set

[rapid mist]

Nah mine is +160 and 40% acc

[vernal urchin]

i dislike low acc shizu +160 can be fine if it fits the tuning

i want mine to move b4 han for strip or defbreak setup

[rapid mist]

Like I said it's purely for t2 comps

[vernal urchin]

fair, mine was for oberon comp

[inland tartan]

that's kinda what mine looked like before I stole some of her runes. was hoping rat would help me with Olivers but that didn't work out well either so idk

[vernal urchin]

buuut that got nerfed to death

[rapid mist]

Like neph / rag riley / shiz bolv / whatever + whatever / laima kinki

[vernal urchin]

ill run her again tho with jamire elenoa

[inland tartan]

skill issues aside, not sure she would have helped me in either of the last few losses I had. Unless maybe that's part of the skill issue too lol

[vernal urchin]

chimera s2 should be the same with sizu rez, right?

also soulprotect

and very opressive with tesa

for the nana game a while back

[inland tartan]

hmm actually fair, shiz s2 still resets cd too if they're alive so I could squall s2 squall lol hmmm

I guess part of my issue here is "is Oliver Juno Camilla a turn 2 team and should I draft more anti-turn2 bruiser battle instead of control"

[inland tartan]

aight real bad day but here's some drafts and what I think went wrong

First, I knew he was trying to force a Leo ban so he could ban Haegang. I should have banned his bomber, gotten in front of Han with Robo and locked him and everyone else down. Kinki can almost solo everything as long as I don't get despair proc'd too much

Second match was kinda trash RNG. Antares proc'd twice in about 15 turns, CP repeatedly stunned Riley who never proc'd out and Kinki stayed stunned most of the match

Third match, tried something kinda unusual (tilt) and it actually almost worked if not for Moore stuns and no Diana procs the entire match. Maybe should have just done Juno instead of Diana

4th match, missed strip on CP with robo which let him reset everyone, couldn't kill Tesa with no CDs

Fun fact tilted through all 30 wings for the first time in a long time, -108

[forest shard]

welcome to the tilt club

but ngl 2nd match u relied everything on RNG and RNGesus betrayed u, antares into neph verd tiana is really suicidal
3rd match i would just ban the oli and now he can only reset one unit, u 100% can survive 1 rotation from them(maybe 2 if haegang despair stun something and tomoe spread that) and after that i dont think they have enough juice to kill ur team
4th match, u have haegang, just ban the CP and risk on moore despair, i dont think stun is more deadly than missing strip and getting reset

1st match idk, just ban the swift unit and control them if they ban kinki, or kinki solo, haegang is a must ban for them anyway else his strippers are useless

[inland tartan]

Yeah first match I knew he was banning Haegang, banning Leo was stupid lol. 2nd match was Neph ban and hoping Antares could take advantage of all their turns but he's fake af lol

4th match you're right, he had to ban Neph with that Abellio pick, should have banned CP and let Kin-ki be Kin-ki. If he banned Kin-ki then Neph can Neph. Haegang ban would be annoying but without CP he can't lock me down forever

[forest shard]

normally when i pick antares, i will make sure i have a Nana coming in with him for extra safety, sometimes he just play Freeze! game lol

your counterpicks are mostly fine, but identify the main threat that will shut your whole team down need to worked on

like i always ask myself during draft that "if i ban this, can he even do anything after all the setup?"

[inland tartan]

Yeah I think that's always my drafting issue is figuring out "who are they banning" and "what do I ban knowing that"

Especially with Oliver Sekhmet

[forest shard]

just dont think too much about what they will ban, we have to prepare it way before when we start picking monsters, make that problem minimum so whatever he bans we still have the main team running or render him useless. focus more on banning the key unit on their team, and pray that RNGesus stay on your side

else guess we just lose

[inland tartan]

Interesting, so I should focus more on "what is the goal of your comp and how do I dismantle it" than "what are you leaving me and what should I ban to maximize my remaining comp"?

Let's take match 3 - his goal was clearly "discourage turn 1 with Oliver Haegang, run Sekhmet for a fast turn 1 reset, and keep everyone completely controlled with Tomoe/Oliver". Putting aside the fact that I probably shouldn't have tried to speed-pressure Oliver Haegang, maybe I should have banned the Sekhmet since she was the big turn-1 threat and just get out ahead of everyone else

His team was heavily geared toward "start getting turns and never stop", so the goal needed to be either "find a way to steal turns/damage back" (i.e. passives like XZ Kinki Giou Josephine etc) or get out ahead of him so he can't start his infinite cycling (requires banning the 1 swift he picked). And with the Eshir Robo picks I went with, I think I should have continued to try and force turn 1 and just never let him move ideally. Or replace the Eshir Robo with something I can take into Oliver Haegang like Kinki Giou

[inland tartan]

another kinda rough day - climbed back to ~1800 then fell back to 1740 lol. Some losses and thoughts:

1. Tried to deal with Sagar by running 3rev Verde but he countered once. After basically everyone else was dead. maybe something a bit less RNG? Might have been able to go Riley since his only atb control was Sagar - she would get turns eventually and keep me healthy

2. Should have banned Josephine instead of Akroma but I don't think I could have really known she would go hard. Dark robo stunned only her while stripping off Riley's will (wind robo fail), she provoked Neph who got stunned on counter, got her turn and stunned dark robo. from there I'm pretty much done - Neph goes down and everyone else stays stunlocked by Juno and Josephine

3. This guy went INSANE on procs in the last half of the match. Every turn was a Juno stun until she died, then every turn was a Riley/Shiz proc. Riley/Shiz basically 2v3'd me into Hae Taor Masha - Shiz revived Kass who basically killed Taor with s1, proc'd a bunch, revived Kass again to s2 and dismount Masha which kinda doesn't matter - once Taor went down I couldn't do anything to someone as tanky as Riley or through ele disadvantage on Shiz

4. I was stupid and banned Giana, fairly certain he was gonna ban Doug. Should have banned either rat or Oliver - probably rat, since Haegang dealt with Giana and rat cleansing constantly is the only thing that kept him in the game

[forest shard]

I will read these tmr at work

Bedge now

[inland tartan]

[queen flint]

I dont get the geldnir ban (i suppose you banned him from your comment on the fight), you have healblock, several aoe attacks to deplete his stacks and only like 2 guaranteed stacks per turn? I feel like banning shiz and just trying to bulldoze the Kassandra would have been better

[queen flint]

Are you running a despair wind robo? Otherwise i dont get why you wouldnt just ban his spdlead and either outspeed or have haegang on your side to cut After he strips with giana . Apart from that i dont like the riley pick too much as the enemys comp seems somewhat easy to outspeed/ just cc and i would assume she doesnt synergise really Well with the Rest of your comp After doug gets banned

But maybe i'm underestimating neph riley

[inland tartan]

actually, yeah, that's pretty fair - I've never even seen someone draft a Geld so my thought went straight to "he's gonna make it hard to kill anyone, and he's gonna get a lot of free stacks off of Taor spd buff and Masha immunity" but now that you mention it, they're both designed for fast kills - ban Shiz and cc/delete Kass as fast as possible

[inland tartan]

This one yeah, terrible overthinking ban on my part. swift robo so outspeeding wasn't a problem unless I let Oliver+Giana through and he banned Haegang. But like we both covered, Doug was the more important ban for him so I should have banned knowing Haegang was making it through. Riley was there in case he still banned Haegang - I was worried he'd bomb him and then let it go off, Riley is on nem so she could cleanse and with atk buff up Doug would be at max glancing for everyone

possible he could have LP Chiwu and had both 2 swift and 2 leads then ban Haegang but then he'd still be dealing with Doug

[queen flint]

I dont like riley too much into giana cc cuz she only cleanses one buff

You're gonna sit there with 3 stunned/bombed units After she cleansed glancing from cp and the dot from giana s2

And yeah doug was a good pick as basically a force ban so the other pick should have Made your actual comp stronger instead

Also a) your doug shouldnt die from one giana bomb or this is a skill issue b) dude runs giana and cp which means enough aoes for him to get glanced and cleanse himself and

[inland tartan]

Yeah I keep picking thinking "Haegang is definitely getting banned and I'm getting outsped so I need a strong pivot pair to try and solo/duo" which is too paranoid and single-minded

[queen flint]

Yup i Was Was thinking about your snipe-ish setup with masha taor just bursting through geld. And if you want to know why geld sucks really bad into aoe units like robos just ask skere

[queen flint]

Yup and also afaik douglas is not a pivot but just a force-ban/ 1v4 unit. So drafting a 1v4 unit and then a Support for it is quite frankly stupid . Rather just draft 2 1v4 units

Like there you could have maybe Made a point for kinki

Sorry for the insult, i just havent said anything mean today yet

[inland tartan]

Yeah I realized immediately after the ban how dumb I was lol. The only reason for Doug was 1v4 and to take ban pressure off of Haegang, so why did I ban like Haegang wasn't getting through and Doug was somehow not gonna solo lol

[queen flint]

Oh wait

Wtf

Bans where giana and what? Douglas?

[inland tartan]

Yeah

[queen flint]

I'm actually so confused

Couldnt you kill through Rat? Or did cp s2>s3 t1

I dont get how you lose with neph robo hae here

[tough kayak]

wheres the china strat

[queen flint]

But yeah just imagine riley Was a unit that would actually do smth like a masha or smth

[queen flint]

Mo fp?

[tough kayak]

nah

nepth fp w tiana

[queen flint]

Neph tiana verde riley kinki

Kinda goated comp ngl

[inland tartan]

I'll have to review but iirc robo didn't push back rat much, stunned Oliver then glance on rat, then I think rat procs kept Dom alive and doing passive damage to kill

[queen flint]

Ahh ok

[inland tartan]

That's why I think Riley was a bad pick and I should have banned rat and just killed everyone. No cleanse, no heal

[tough kayak]

its op

in theory

[inland tartan]

Probably did enough damage to kill Dom 3 times but he never went below 50% thanks to rat lol

My Verde fake af so IDK if that comp would work for me LMAO

when I get out of tower I'll post my megascuffed Verde, I do see chances to use him when they go turn1s like that Vanessa Sagar match but he never seems to work for me and idk if it's super bad RNG or stat/skill issue lol

I could probably make him "better" in some way if I take from a few others but idk what to even shoot for in an effective 3rev Verde

[tough kayak]

wtf

[inland tartan]

he was REALLY low on the list of who gets runes lmao

[inland tartan]

aside from the fact that my Verde is obv insanely bad, I do think I need to stick with my main Neph Haegang comp and just get better at my picks/bans. Specifically, recognizing how my comp can play against an opponent's and how to best ban to support that

the more we talk about it the more I'm realizing that I think a lot of my losses are very winnable with better/more well-thought-out bans

[inland tartan]

Latest batch of "I'm trash and can't figure out how to draft anymore". I think my G1 run is looking real grim but I'm gonna keep trying to climb and figure out what I'm doing

1. I was pretty well tilted at this point so the drafting was already kinda rough. If I did Eshir over Sav I probably could have kept Haegang in but even then his whole team was so strong/fast that I was basically dead by the time Moore even moved lol. Maybe Char ban if I did that so he couldn't boost and just try to eat the Psama revive (if I can live long enough to cut)?

2. I had no clue what to do into this - first time I've run into 33lead Sekh Sagar. I liked Kinki until I saw him pick Tesa MHW, then I just kinda panicked. Riley should have been something more threatening to the MHW like maybe Masha or Laika, maybe even Antares - it had way too little damage with only Juno to try and get through Vanessa and then MHW

3. Rematch against someone I lost to earlier but that was bad decisioning (I didn't robo s2 into Verde Pater - should have given him the turn so Haegang could strip after Pater s3). I think Masha was a questionable pick - I usually try to pick a DD that has element advantage at the time, and into Oliver it seemed nice, but Lora can open with s2 and stun her and Neph (Miles strip) while avoiding Haegang passive. MAYBE could have been salvageable if Miles didn't proc both turn 1 and 2 to basically kill Masha immediately, and Oliver didn't resist robo strip/pushback

4. Took a slight risk and banned Oliver instead of Leo, figuring he'd ban Taor (which he did), but I didn't have enough damage to deal with Juno. I had hoped dark robo would make it to the "only Juno left" stage but he went down way too fast for that. Sav probably should have been Taor so I had room to pick someone else since she ended up useless into Juno Masha (like Tesa)

[vernal urchin]

vane double reset dies to passives juno kinki were already great imo shoulda added a cami over riley to controll more with cami s2

and to 4; dont forget most of ur adds come from spd aswell so leo robs you of ALOOT unless u actually have spread adds on artis

[inland tartan]

yeah if that Riley was a Camilla or Suiki I could have just banned the Tesa and bruisered him to death. and yeah for that 4th match I needed to be able to ban Leo - I think in cases like that I'm gonna try to draft Taor 3rd since he's kinda element-neutral with his s2, then I can draft the last 2 according to his 3/4 and ban Leo

[vernal urchin]

actually dont need to ban tesa, unless he giga procs or has a tomoe/shizu tesa is never a threat

what is he gonna do

oblivion 1 of ur units b4 you just lock him down anyway?

most tesas are on spare runes since its a counter and not a core unit

especially with neph cami tesa dies in 1 single cami proc

might even not move atall

like here i didnt care atall about tesa

i banned the rat and killed cp t1 into focusing down praha

whats tesa gonna do here, he obilivioned giou once, wich self cylces out of it with s2

tesa seems alot more scary than he actually is

[inland tartan]

hmm fair point, you're right that unless he procs he's only getting 1 oblivion off per turn. I think I was worried about him mainly because of the Sagar reset so he would probably have gotten 2 oblivions off before I could move, assuming no procs. but at the same time 1 proc from my side wipes it off too

[vernal urchin]

was working on woosa next but he surrendered

[vernal urchin]

well only to some degree, sagar will always move first so if he full resets ur atb he gets 1 oblivion here and then you can do stuff, if you count full provoke its 2 chances yeah

[inland tartan]

tbh I think tesa that was a really meh pick - he either oblivions Giou who just s2's out of it, or Juno who gets speed buff and s1 procs to cycle out. fair point on Sagar moving first though, v true

either way tesa wouldn't have been an issue with a better 5th pick and I could have banned monke

[vernal urchin]

yeah that would have been my play

i despise the monkeys

[inland tartan]

Vanessa MHW is nasty... gets strong, fast, AND get a revive + atk buff. I think the main reason I lost even with my draft was because I had to kill Vanessa first who was really tanky. If it was any other 33lead I could have focused MHW and dropped him way sooner

[vernal urchin]

yeah true vanessa is pretty strong this season

[inland tartan]

my new-as-of-this-morning hopeful answer to those. used him once already and the match was really close but got the win

on one hand I only won with a kinki proc onto Feng the last turn, on the other I didn't get many procs before that so I was due lmao

[vernal urchin]

damn hes kinda slow, no?

[inland tartan]

yeah little bit, he's mostly for bruiser battles so I leaned more into raw tank/damage to try and outdamage Camilla/MHW

[vernal urchin]

fair should work for it

[inland tartan]

yeah tbh in this match he ate a ton of threat and still got a few good hits off, even with s1 not maxed

which was really what I needed from him

ngl was kinda inspired by FirasFiras who ran his slow and statball too specifically to counter MHW+Camilla combos which was something I've hit in the past so figured I'd give it a shot lol

[vernal urchin]

fair Firas is cool

[forest shard]

[forest shard]

my suiki is +100

[forest shard]

1. imo, if you pick Haegang and want to pivot against Sagar, pivot into something that has Will, else that mf will land 4 provoke full ATB pushback on everything like he's neutral. and if you pivot into Leo Verd, u need sustain, he has 2, u have 0, that was how u lost.

2. we talked about this before, ofc akroma's annoying and all but

focus more on banning the key unit on their team
I should focus more on "what is the goal of your comp and how do I dismantle it" than "what are you leaving me and what should I ban to maximize my remaining comp"
in this case, only jose stops your team entirely, instead of those 4.

3. geld pick is nice, since he can just ban Neph and survive everything, i would also go for geld ban. RNG is RNG so cant do much. But the Masha isnt great here because i dont think she cant brute force through Juno Riley early on, if you pick Masha, last pick should be something that be able to set-up def break for masha like a Nana(which is great into Fire Kass). I feel like your draft is half counter half soft control around Neph Hae, it wont be the best because u need to either hard counter or hard control. like the picture i post (personal opinion for your box), you can pair your comp with the one next to it, but the opposite one wont be the best for you.

4. the moment he picked Rat u would just go for double control and lock his whole team down while banning spd lead/swift unit/last pick that counter your whole team. Is your Robo on Will? also any backup speed lead that also can be in your control comp?

[forest shard]

1. Sav was meh, he has 2 spd lead, Ethna, insane follow up with atk buff and Charlotte. i think the moment u picked Robo Taor u was already lost because no spd lead + bad base speed into them.

2. i dont really like Juno tbh, bruiser that can ultilize your def break is better here, because juno can be easily locked down or like...nuked down first.

3. Masha into Lora Pater do you have CP? this is a great game for CP ngl, instead of Robo. also you picked 2 fires and let Miles through?

4. This is why i dont like running CC Comp without 2 spd leads, oliver bring better lead and then u still have to ban one of the force ban instead of Oli. also your whole team is based on spd just ban Leo

[forest shard]

u can abuse Kinki suiki first 2 pick lmao, i saw someone doing that and it's pretty nice, just like me fp Antares

[inland tartan]

thanks for all the reviews yak! You've got good points on a lot of those games and yeah, things like "you need to ban Leo if you're counting on Neph Sav Robo getting through" and "Akroma might fack you up if you can't get kills fast enough, but Josephine most likely will" are things I'm trying to keep in mind. I will say tbh I wasn't worried about Josephine until she went off because I figured she was less likely to chain-lockdown on me than Akroma with her glancing and every-other-turn silence

One thing I also learned kinda last night / this morning is I've never really been pivoting properly - I've been playing cc comp into bad odds and throwing in a last-pick that I hope makes it through and solos. Something I've been better at today is watching their draft and setting myself up for either a hard-commit or a pivot earlier so I can actually pivot properly. Take this game for example - 3rd pick rat gave me a lot of flexibility to draft my last 2 in really punishing ways - if he backs down I can go hard and use rat to cycle faster, if he commits (which he did) I can pick turn2s that make his life miserable. And I won this pretty comfortably

[forest shard]

yep, neph haegang doesnt really need to be turn 1 or hard control, u can just bring sustain like a rat/riley and make it relevant to your bruisers, now you are not control team anymore but your comp is sustain + bruiser and neph is there for the def break

[inland tartan]

ya with his comp he has to ban Haegang or risk me cutting in and the Isis pick says "I'm trying to answer your bruisers/sustains" so I just ban the most disruptive thing (Isis), eat his turns until I can start moving, then just whittle him down

my old strat of "pick robo 3rd" means I basically HAVE to commit to contesting because my last 2 picks aren't enough to form a viable pivot. Best I could hope for is something like Eshir+force ban so he either gives me a solo mon (MAYBE Doug could have fit here in hindsight) or he bans it and gives me Neph+Eshir for the hard turn 1

[forest shard]

yea i learned it the hardway, trying to force in turn 1 blind and get shit on, now i just shiz rat which is great in any comps, then either 3 hard control/contest or 3 bruisers

where you at rn? 18xx

[inland tartan]

1789, thanks to a 6 game win streak today lol

[forest shard]

strim when

[inland tartan]

maybe tonight after shower

so everyone can see me tank lmao

[forest shard]

it's fine

we get C3 anyway

just go all in

or gatekeep c3

for fun

[tough kayak]

wdf

[forest shard]

G1 yet?

[tough kayak]

I haven't done wings in 2 weeks

[inland tartan]

I wanna keep the G1 gate

[forest shard]

u lazy ass

[tough kayak]

School

I can stream some later

[inland tartan]

school don't miss it

[tough kayak]

@forest shard what abt u

how's the climb

[forest shard]

im sitting around 1800 pretty much, doing only Antares fp

gonna tilt people that trying to climb to safe point with RNG

[inland tartan]

Antares fake for me frfr lol tried him once or twice into a speedy cc comp and he never proc'd

May his procs bless you

[tough kayak]

ANTARES

[forest shard]

well i had like 10 games where antares just destroy them

antares nana + riley + rat + 1 more like Leo or RNG shit

[forest shard]

yea lol, like im trolling fr, just antares fp and kill them

[tough kayak]

do i do wings

[forest shard]

yes and strim so i can hear ur malding voice

[tough kayak]

ok

in 1 hr

maybe

[inland tartan]

will strim some wings in like 15-20m

[forest shard]

nice

infinite content of raging climbers

[inland tartan]

life is hard but we climbed ~130pts to climb in the coming days nbd ya

[queen flint]

I got g1 last season with anta fp

[tough kayak]

lets ignore the nicki

[queen flint]

[tough kayak]

hi bb

[queen flint]

hai

[tough kayak]

[queen flint]

Am already back from school

Only one more PE lesson in the afternoon

[tough kayak]

[forest shard]

#general-sw

[tough kayak]

i gave the strats

[queen flint]

i dont agree with your take on Geld yak

[tough kayak]

oh ye smurf

i changed my seimei

[queen flint]

Will shield nem?

[tough kayak]

still feels slowish