Speed tuning fat lushen

[fast zenith]

I'm trying to set up the Susano/Orion/Kona/Lushen AO from beginner PVP and want to make sure I have the speed tunes right. If I understand correctly, Orion is as fast as possible, then Kona needs to be tuned to move next, followed by Lushen and Susano clean up. Using the speed tuning in SWOP, do I want Orion to have the 30% atb shown in the attached screen grab? Does that mean he's applying the 30% to all the other mons, or does that give him 30% atb? And do I need to change something to show Kona giving Lushen 100% atb?

[tired delta]

you don't need to tune susano to orion

you only need to tune kona to orion

you can leave out lushen and susano here

[fast zenith]

Got it. What about the 30% atb? Do I leave that on? Bascially, does that apply to Kona or to Orion?

[tired delta]

yes you leave the 30% atb there. basically this is just calculating how fast your kona needs to be

[fast zenith]

And should I do anything to take leader skill into account if I'm taking out Susano?

[tired delta]

not an easy way to add leader skill unfortunately but it wont make a huge difference in terms of tuning

[fast zenith]

So it's saying Orion gives the 30% to everything behind it?

[tired delta]

yes

and you only need to have kona behind it

[fast zenith]

Perfect, thanks

[tired delta]

you don't need lushen behind it becuaes kona gives 100 atb

lushen can have +0 spd and still be tuned

[fast zenith]

Makes sense. So as long as I get Kona to 242 it will work?

[tired delta]

nope it can be less than 242

because right now you're telling it to tune 3 monsters behind orion

the more monsters you have to tune, the higher the spd reqs are

you need to take out lushen and susano

[fast zenith]

Oh I see, becuase they are each on their own ticks?

It says 217 now with just Orion and Kona. Much easier to meet

[tired delta]

uhhh not quite but the explanation is a bit more difficult

yep

so now you can make kona tankier

make it vio

or give it fight sets

keep in mind that most battles aren't going to be you 1 shotting everything on the field with lushen

susano orion kona cleanup is very important

so its important to have real stats on susano orion kona to make sure you actually win

[fast zenith]

Perfect, thank you! Will probably go fight sets if I can to buff Lushen since his runes aren't amazing

that's very helpful, I'll take that into account

[fast zenith]

I've had a few battles where my opponent is able to cut between my Orion and my Konamiya after Orion uses his s3. Is there anything I can do to prevent this? Just add speed to Kona? Screen shot attached seems like they are tuned correctly but wanted to make sure I didn't miss something. Thanks.

[tired delta]

is your orion first to move (i.e. before enemy units?)

[fast zenith]

Yes

Obviously, if I get outsped entirely that's a different issue that could introduce other variables like atb boost/reduction from enemy skills

Here, I'm talking specifically about times where Orion moves first, uses s3, then an enemy unit (often Tiana but can vary) cuts and moves before my Kona takes a turn

[tired delta]

show your monsters

[tired delta]

even if an enemy goes first and does nothing that affects atb it still matters

[tired delta]

you are off by 2 spd according to that calculator

and also you're not accounting for spd lead, you actually need +144 on kona to be tuned to your orion assuming a 30% spd lead

[fast zenith]

Thanks for helping clarify. Is there a way to calculate that includes speed lead in SWOP or should I do it manually?

[tired delta]

there's not an easy way to do it in swop i think

[fast zenith]

Is there another resource you could recommend? Because when I add in speed lead in swop build tab and then plug those numbers into the speed tune tab, it thinks +142 is fast enough for Kona to be tuned

But then I test that build against my own AD with Susano Orion and the defending Orion cuts

So clearly something is off in the calc or in how I am inputting the information

When I give my Kona +149 the Orion no longer cuts

I can just leave it on the +149 build for now and hopefully that stops the issue against other ADs as well but if you have any resources you can share I would love to understand how to do these calcs better for the future

Appreciate all your help on this

[tired delta]

sorry i dont know of any other public resources for spd tuning other than swop and sw-tools.net

both have the same issue of not being able to give yourself a lead if you don't need the lead monster on your team

it normally won't matter too much, lead here makes a difference of 4 spd and that's just really drastic due to kona super low base spd

[fast zenith]

Fair enough. How did you do the calcs to know +142 wasn’t enough when swop thought it was?

[gilded atlas]

figured i'd ask here since it's relevant; would you not just be able to add the speed lead % to the "SPD tower" section? That's what I've done and it seems to work fine

[tired delta]

i have a tool from a friend that i dunno if he wants to share

[tired delta]

oh wow you're absolutely right i didn't even realize this

i didn't think it could go over 15 but apparently it can

so yea that is how you can add a spd lead

one thing to note is that there is some wonkiness with using swift set or not. so whatever value you get from swop tool you should add 1 spd to the minimum just in case

[fast zenith]

Totally understand

Thanks again

[fast zenith]

@tired delta pulled gin yesterday which woud allow me to move from susano orion kona to gin kabilla teon. raises a couple issues:

1. I will lose 2 fight sets moving from orion kona to kabilla teon (kona has triple fight rn, but can't tune teon to kabilla without swift)

2. in beginner pvp, you mention that you prefer kona to teon becuase of the cleanse

the increase in speed is still worth making the switch, right? my lushen does roughly 16k per card with the triple fight rn

[tired delta]

what are your speeds and are you sure you can't tune teon without swift? there should not be a big difference between using kabilla vs orion, both have same boost

either way the loss of 2 fight sets it not a big deal

it's worth it for the extra speed

gin is probably the best you can do without psama

you need to make sure you rune it well though. needs to be able to survive enemy psama as well as do enough dmg to clean up

[fast zenith]

That’s my fastest set and the fastest I can get on triple fight. Could try to get fast enough on double fight and some other offset I guess? Can’t quite make up for the Orion - kabilla speed gap and stay on triple fight

And this is the set I currently have on Susano. Based off the recommendations in beginner PvP for vamp will 100 cr on cd4. Would this work to bring over onto gin? Does okay with cleanup on Susano now except into Savanah basically

could build something like this for teon - double fight will and tuned:

[golden dust]

Here is your build.

Teon

#1 Fight,Fight,Will

SPD, HP%, RES

HP: 18921
DEF: 1243
ATK: 1045
SPD: 259
CR: 21%
CD: 59%
ACC: 14%
RES: 96%
E.HP: 103885
Effcy: 81.27%

provided by SWOP

[tired delta]

yep that double fight looks good

will doesn't matter

[fast zenith]

is there any offset i should target, or don't bother?

[tired delta]

doesnt matter

[fast zenith]

thanks

[tired delta]

you can play around with gin build to see what works better

[fast zenith]

anything jump out to you about that build? def looks low to me, could give up some damage to get a little tankier?

[tired delta]

yea you need to survive enemy psama