and you're pretty likely to just get stunned by clara t1
#[ARCHIVED] Siege Advice (Starting Season of March 2023)
inland sedge
(in the worst case which is what you wanna protect against)
since tesa is the main dd here -- i worry no vio chance makes that stun stall you out a whole cycle of getting pummeled by the triple dd which is v scary
tacit dome
I've thought about it, I want to test it and see how it holds up
Probably would not typically do but I am curious how it pans out
inland sedge
testing always good 
tacit dome
I need to reread our discussion on clara theo savannah
I know we've discussed it before
inland sedge
i think there is the case where you revenge the sav or theo and then pop them without their protection
but that can happen with a s2 -> vio s1 anyways
and i usually kill clara first here anyways
tbf i havent hit this defense that seriously a whole lot
tacit dome
I think you'd also probably do it with jeanne helena if you were to leo
This is a much weaker variant for sure
earnest shore
i wont lie i slam feng into this repeatedly
people tell me its not safe but honestly leo like neuters theo and sav even if they're on 'leo trap' builds
this variant sucks imo
tacit dome
I don't have that many premium units so sticking both into the same team is something I would typically avoid doing
earnest shore
i've also run tesa lulu leo as well with just mega -wind on lulu
tacit dome
I do have camilla
inland sedge
idk if anyone runs leo traps in reg season
tacit dome
I reruned her this FRR because bruiser build was basically impossible for me to use
earnest shore
i hit oci with fy leo aaliyah and sav not only defbroke my feng
this theo also started beating the shit out of him
unfortunately 3 procs was not enough to kill my feng
so i still won
inland sedge
i think leo does less than people think into a good theo
his atk scaling is still p solid
like my 286 theo can still clap a feng with a proc or two because its +wind
earnest shore
true but if you run someone with innate dmg reduction or just insane bases and abuse the leo low spd requirement
u can make shit pretty tanky
and i run -water on everyone versus theo
lol
including fy
tacit dome
camilla windy
From using camilla on bruiser build honestly I get it but I just don't have the runes unless I full swap sets from multiple different monsters
inland sedge
yeah ofc
earnest shore
if the clara hits me for 10k then i got fucking brain gapped
inland sedge
you dont reallly 2v3 you toss in some other random 3rd here
tacit dome
Felt very unusable when I was running her
inland sedge
and then its not as high rune req
tacit dome
I'm just talking in general
inland sedge
i just run a cr 239 camilla in past
tacit dome
Everyone is saying camilla is a top siege unit
inland sedge
what did u try?
tacit dome
And I get it
earnest shore
are your flags and towers maxed
earnest shore
bruisers feel much weaker until you have all that
damn already it took me years to do that shit
tacit dome
I do try hard
earnest shore
well hmm
inland sedge
nup was buying scrolls
earnest shore
this is true
tacit dome
I was running 205 cr
earnest shore
i bought hella wind scrolls
still no seara
i think u want 239 on cami no?
her sustain is tied to moving
tacit dome
I can't make 239 CR with more than like 160k ehp
civic steeple
I run cd clara in that def at 6tick
inland sedge
yeah but one person hits you
earnest shore
wtf is 6tick
inland sedge
then everyone after is free
tacit dome
Which doesn't work for obvious reasons
earnest shore
speak in normal numbers
inland sedge
239
civic steeple
earnest shore
nah its much simpler than that
one hit i had clara strip stun
sav defbreak
theo proceeded to s2 s1 s1 s1 me
and im like ok i lived
civic steeple
Well it doesnt matter anyway
earnest shore
then clara did 300 damage and i died
inland sedge
did u ever see the clara i ran in finals
civic steeple
You're gonna runegap me anyway
tacit dome
interserver siege coming near you
earnest shore
sus
earnest shore
also @inland sedge how do we feel about this build (+200 def from arts)
for leo fy
i think its actually +1800 def with s6 maxed
so +28k +2k for leo fy into clara teams
since clara is high acc anyways i decided what if i just run all stats no resist
is the 10k health jump worth the 100 resist loss
(cause my current is +19.5k +2k defense)
tacit dome
Don't you still want res for theomars?
earnest shore
bro hold on
inland sedge
for leo trap i would go res prolly
earnest shore
ive had 3 theos
inland sedge
err leo build
tacit dome
earnest shore
ok thats furyn rune gap
earnest shore
i dont think i could make that if i tried and consolidated all my best runes
civic steeple
nice set
inland sedge
earnest shore
furyn rune gap
inland sedge
the narsha little squishy
civic steeple
fucking defbreak my 100 res fy
Ye res is a lie too xD
Now i dont wanna Show mine
tacit dome
when i get to tourney i just plan to get leo'd from now on
civic steeple
tacit dome
this is one of those crazy person builds
tacit dome
like the people running hp/hp/hp -fire rakan with seara orion rakan in g1
earnest shore
yea but realistically im beating anyone who isnt +50 speed with leo fy i think
ok people who do that are bozos and why im making a +130 speed mega fat rage kahli
if i ever see seara orion rakan again
but thats a diff story
earnest shore
yea but realistically im beating anyone who isnt +50 speed with leo fy i think
-> continued: i feel like since im beating anyone whos not building for leo fy anyways i feel like if i just mega tank stat up i have a better chance versus crazy people builds like these
if i just go mega stats
inland sedge
yeah i forget what 3rd you want but windy camilla i think is just nice because it doestn have the trap risk but again in reg season i do not respect leo traps
inland sedge
juno gets fucked by theo
earnest shore
but i see it
inland sedge
tacit dome
vampire tractor here seems fine
Vs Clara theo sav?
inland sedge
was thinking of +1 for windy camilla
tacit dome
Am I going to have enough damage without bruiser Camilla?
inland sedge
do you have some you can test against internally?
tractor windy is decent chunk of dmg and the def has 0 sustain
tacit dome
I asked on discord
inland sedge
if you pull us today ill put it up for live testing 
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
inland sedge
if ur running full tank idk if you really care about destroy
are you doing enough dmg ot make it worth it over will or energy or endure or something higher stat
gleaming vapor
if you pull us today ill put it up for live testing <:peepoblush:981305729631789...
what guild u in nowadays
inland sedge
i rejoined skyfall this week
gleaming vapor
oh nice
inland sedge
i was in a fake farming guild since start of season that was going between g2 and g3
tacit dome
don't think we're pulling either
we had a questionable last siege
yeah we're playing in super noob siege
83 rank
inland sedge
gleaming vapor
pull apoc instead
I'd fight apoc over SF any day
gleaming vapor
yay we getting 1v2'd boys
fallow sail
I'd fight apoc over SF any day
What about both @ once
gleaming vapor
I'd pilot Logan's and another acc and go 0-30 actually!
sacred fossil
LMAO
dull ruin
Which are the most viable tanks for each elemental (if possible obtainable)? Mostly concerned about a possible obtainable light tank for martina defs
quartz crescent
Just dont Light Tank Martina
Go Tractor Lulu Windy and pray
If you wanna risk it Shamann/Light Joker(HoH) are some options
earnest shore
if u go tlw and the enemy has high eff twins u can just lose
light tanking it is okay with shamann
sacred fossil
Which are the most viable tanks for each elemental (if possible obtainable)? Mos...
this isn't your post so I don't wanna answer your question. Therion is kinda strict on it
but for dark, chacha and diaz for fire helena kunite. for wind, windy, malite, Water camilla,
dull ruin
wait im confused, aaaa so this isn't a general post?
I deleted mine, thinking it was
ignore my question then, I'll re-open a thread later today about it, and thanks for going through the trouble Logan, Nuparu, and Fayris ^^
sacred fossil
Yeah it's Therion's and they usually ask people to open their own posts.
No worries though
thin oxide
Which are the most viable tanks for each elemental (if possible obtainable)? Mos...
i'm sure you've seen #1048719420870107227 ... but there's literally a chart that answer this question
dull ruin
the bruiser one, I saw it, but wasn't sure if some could last long enough vs martina defs >-<
quartz crescent
light tanking it is okay with shamann
To be fair again Mst has so many angles to lose to, only light tanking I know off is Double Water and containing a DD a Damage Triana can often just snipe you quickly too with a proc or two soloing from my experience
tacit dome
@dull ruin We had a discussion on MST here before. Ryan icaru verde seems to be agreed to be the best counter
jolly swift
Are there builds for that team somewhere?
tacit dome
Are there builds for that team somewhere?
@fallow sail
civic steeple
@tacit dome how was siege or is it still going on?
fallow sail
<@728158806588129281> how was siege or is it still going on?<:Aloo:1101542594217...
Was vs complete randos
tacit dome
<@728158806588129281> how was siege or is it still going on?<:Aloo:1101542594217...
Was just G2, nothing fancy, got home from work exhausted and did a quick 10-0 lol
civic steeple
ah ok, not worth talking about then ig
gleaming vapor
Was just G2, nothing fancy, got home from work exhausted and did a quick 10-0 lo...
the siege before this one
was imperialkingz and something right
elfin terrace
@tacit dome hope the ping is ok - what would you use against Eshir, Monte Triana def?
hollow widget
If I want to share my box and ask for recommendations on seige team builds should I do it here or make a new post in help section?
thin oxide
make a new post
never be afraid of making a new posts
but check out #1048666221064753182 first
stuck abyss
yes in #1048681073502068917 , beginner pvp post
hollow widget
Thank you
Yes I checked it
I already built a carnaco vigour traina def
And I was building 2nd recommended ones as well
But I have some seige oriented nat5s and that's why I wanted to ask
tacit dome
We can help best if you make new posts :D
tacit dome
Could I have suggestions for vs clara cichlid vigor? I did malite lulu vigor and it felt very unsafe
thin oxide
i like yeonhwa here. like khmun racuni
thin oxide
there's not a single biggest threat on that def, so having some mega tank isn't that great because you can't make it tank all the threats
yeonhwa is still a great tank but has great support for the team even if she's not directly tanking
dong is similar but i like yeonhwa a lot more than dong
tacit dome
it's vs ocitocina and fury today, so actually meaningful siege
jolly swift
dong is similar but i like yeonhwa a lot more than dong
In general or just into this defense
thin oxide
in general
tacit dome
could I have some more suggestions vs seara nora theomars? the guild i am fighting literally is only using this defense and the cichlid one + i've already used xing cami riley + leo feng tetra
thin oxide
pretty tough without leo or other premium stuff
tacit dome
i'm just kind of stuck here because it's that or the cichlid one haha
thin oxide
you could do camilla + fire bruisers like juno racuni khmun lala etc
and if you assume nora is not on swift can cleave it
like tiana or if you have a jamire can do those jamire homie cleaves
i'd rather hit clara vigor cichlid than seara nora theo
even without yeonhwa you can just use any of your standard wind tanks like malite or windy
and then your standard 2 fire bruisers like khmun racuni lala or standard 2 water bruisers like vigor lulu elucia tetra
which you've tried and yea like you said it's not super safe but i think still a decently high wr team
inland sedge
I Julie this
inland sedge
Oci is the type of guild to run triple hp seara also
I’ve done myhang lushen to this too
quartz crescent
This def has a ton of angles to hit it from with Info you can cleave it without you can run stuff like Revivers
Nana+Tara+Theo or Perna e.g.
inland sedge
I have this built if you wanna mess around in vc on my account @tacit dome
tacit dome
#6 is fucking stupid, thought dong could work as well but realized quickly that i wasn't manipulating ai of clara
#10 i just didn't have any options left to hit this defense, had to get creative
i love the yeonhwa team though!
thin oxide
yeonhwa is the new malite
i've basically stopped using malite and have just been building dupe yeonhwas
the unfortunate part is that she needs skillups
jolly swift
how is your seara built for #9
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
tacit dome
just playing with additional
actually
i should probably ask if this is acceptable @thin oxide
this is the build i was using on yeonhwa
sec
jolly swift
shouldnt seara be hp slot 6 if you are using additionals
or does the bomb dmg have value here
tacit dome
for sure she should be
this needs to be reruned, gen1 wanted me to do clara seara theomars and i couldn't build it properly bruiser style so i went more yolo
although i think here she is tanky enough
i'll point out
jolly swift
something like this work with that offense?
tacit dome
for that specific defense
there's a very awkward part of the fight where you've killed ethna
and you need to hit manon
it's awkward as heck but basically
you can't really kill molly without landing two bombs
so i think accuracy is actually somewhat important
thin oxide
this is the build i was using on yeonhwa
too fast you should have her on literally +0 spd
she activates without having to move, and you don't want her song to end
thin oxide
like my yeons have +40k
hp
also you can consider not building any res on her
i have a build with max res and a build without and i think in a lot of cases the no res build is better
she is an insane tank with the damage reduction, you want her to take all the hits
and she'll be fine even with def break on her
not to mention if you bring her into dom, sav, lm, etc
you want the atb reduction to land on her as well
old marsh
what artas do you do for Yeon? -Elem dmg for left and acc+ on right?
tacit dome
i have a build with max res and a build without and i think in a lot of cases th...
vs clara it has to be max res i think, right?
earnest shore
She's immune to cc while playing her song now I'm pretty sure
So can't see why she would
tacit dome
if she gets stunned turn 1
you won't play
i actually just tested
but i also don't feel like it matters
earnest shore
Ah in that case yea I'd still probs just play off rat resurge
thin oxide
vs clara it has to be max res i think, right?
i mean if you assume most claras are built with super high accuracy anyway then it doesn't matter
sacred moon
Ok, I don't want to go against the progression and I promise I'm not skipping anything but...
Is it okay that I start venturing into Siege battles while I'm farming runes for making my bj5 team stable and consistent? Or is bj5 really-really mandatory to finish before siege?
stuck abyss
finish pve before working on pvp
tacit dome
i mean if you assume most claras are built with super high accuracy anyway then ...
I think I would not assume this for cichlid here.
tacit dome
I don't know if it's something everyone is able to talk about yet, but do we have any solution for martina manon shaina that isn't the icaru one? Or is that recommended? I think when we spoke before about icaru chilling elucia it was not recommended because of the intense rune requirements
I am unsure about the rune requirements vs this defense in particular
earnest shore
I think every counter to this is high rune intensity lol
Only other reliable ones I've seen are miri Lushen where you can kill in 2 cards on Manon and Martina and the double snipe comp where you bethony the Manon but both of those are 2.25% chance to auto fail
tacit dome
Obviously I can't
Do that haha :D I don't own mirinae anyways
But yeah I'm not sure what other counter there is
gleaming vapor
rune swap icaru team might be your best bet
tacit dome
the problem is that I can't build the team either
gleaming vapor
I can't on swift, vio might be doable
inland sedge
Julie lushen
thin oxide
you can rune the icaru comp on swift instead of vio
if you dont run vio it's actually really easy to rune
tacit dome
How come ryan icaru verde is considered a solid counter vs MST but not TQ raoq verde? I fail to understand. Can they not both get screwed by nem shaina?
thin oxide
excellent question
first thing to keep in mind which i think you already understand, is that nem is not all or nothing
it's not like if nem triggers, it automatically means the nem unit gets to cut
nem will give you a certain amount of atb and it may or may not allow you to cut in
so that being said, it's very possible for ryan icaru verde to get screwed by nem shaina, but it is much much harder compared to tq raoq verde
specifically in order for a well-built ryan icaru verde to get cut, you pretty much need a very tight/specific 286 tick squishy shaina
meanwhile, any regular/bruiser tanky vio/nem shaina is likely to cut tq raoq verde but not icaru ryan verde
the main thing that makes icaru ryan verde less susceptible to nem is that the damage on it is mostly backloaded
the initial hit of tq raoq verde does MUCH more than the initial hit of icaru ryan verde. tq does a lot of dmg with his ignore dmg s1, meanwhile ryan does not. majority of dmg from icaru ryan verde comes from ryan's s2 and s3 which follow up later and can be chained and avoids nem
tacit dome
That makes a lot more sense.
thin oxide
other small things -
icaru has a slightly faster speed lead, plus ryan team is much higher dmg output given same runes
tacit dome
meanwhile, any regular/bruiser tanky vio/nem shaina is likely to cut tq raoq ver...
I assume this is much less popular
thin oxide
so a lot of people when building the ryan team purposely overtune the comp by a lot
because they don't need to maximize dmg
and then they may not even be cut by nem
tacit dome
That makes a lot more sense.
thin oxide
lastly
even if nem shaina does trigger and manage to cut in
ryan team still has better chance of surviving and getting the win, just due to ryan/icaru being water
and shaina can glance them
tacit dome
This makes a lot more sense. I understand now. Thank you :)
thin oxide
one way to build ryan team is actually to build ryan on will, and tuned directly to a single boost instead of double boost
so if shaina cuts in and stuns verde - ryan still will get to go, and cannot be stunned due to will
remember that the only way to reasonably build shaina to cut in is on a super fast and squishy build
tacit dome
So it would not be violent?
thin oxide
so a ryan that counters that doesn't need all that damage
and will still easily kill stuff despite verde not getting a turn in this case
thin oxide
I assume this is much less popular
there are tons of shaina builds these days, and it also varies greatly depending on server
tacit dome
I guess that is how MST has withstood the trial of time
tacit dome
@thin oxide what is the strategy when i'm using triana elucia loren into geldnir ophilia theomars?
Like who do I focus/try to CC?
I don't understand what I'm supposed to do when ophilia has permanent immunity
quartz crescent
You can strip her with Loren into Elucia
You have enough safety usually with Triana+occasional Slow debuff from Loren/cc
tacit dome
Could I get some suggestions for vs this defenses? Was being rushed so didn't really end up picking well. I think maybe shushu > riley can work? I'm not sure.
thin oxide
this is pretty scary to bruiser
it's hard to have anything tank this, both in the sense of being able to tank 3v1 but also you can't even control ai to ensure that 1 thing is tanking everything
tacit dome
What I did is I put everything on -dark here and tried to make everything tanky enough
But it was not. I know you can't tiana cleave this either because tian lang
thin oxide
you can still tiana cleave it
if your cp is fast enough
and tuned to 15% boost
that's part of the reason why my cp is so fast
other than that there's jamire homu
and all the various spd buff no boost cleaves
tacit dome
I thought that homunculus would not work
thin oxide
like lcl or just double ignore but with no boost (so kahli and then your 2 def ignore tuned to just spd buff)
why would homunculus not work
tacit dome
Tian lang passive. I thought it would make it only put the attack bar to 50%.
thin oxide
homunculus doesn't boost atb
it sets everyone's atb to 100
oh and you have coco too so can do the coco kahli cleave if you don't have jamire
tacit dome
Yeah. I was thinking about that. I'm just not positive who you would kill here, and I'm not sure my kahli would one shot with 44% hp lead
I'm thinking about fermion passive here and how it plays a role in this
thin oxide
you cannot nuke fermion
he has to be last
yea it would need some good runes
for coco kahli you'd coco the vigor and kahli the tl
for jamire + some single target ignore def it doesn't amtter between tl and vigor, you'd shoot whoever had will if you see it as you'd try to avoid nem
tacit dome
Got it. I will keep that part in mind.
With cheongpung. So I see you have 270. What determines whether tian lang or cheongpung gets a turn? Just whoever has more speed?
thin oxide
correct
both of them will basically have 15% boost
so just whoever is faster between cp and TL
my cp is this speed so that it should outspeed almost all vio TL no lead (aka approximately +200 vio)
with my gal lead
whoever designed TL deserves a raise
one of the coolest monsters/passives in the game
even though it's a bit on the OP side there's an entire world of theorycrafting that goes around countering him
tacit dome
Perhaps when I hit this defense I could rerune cheongpung to be faster if I see it in the future
He does have a really neat passive. Lots of awesome things like that. I love leo too
tacit dome
I messed up the speed tuning with garo going before kahli, but this still felt very very unsafe
thin oxide
lmao not even close
so i would have gone for clara 2nd instead of fuuki
or at least not until he kills himself a bit
my draco also has a shield set which reduces chance of clara stunning stuff
and lastly i know we don't really prioritize tankiness at all on kahli, but max slot 5 + maybe a random hp/def sub here and there and she survives here
old marsh
attacking clara instead of fuuki first turn could also mess up ai on clara i believe
tacit dome
How so?
old marsh
clara's ai is perfect when she has full hp in that she will always s3
If she has some damage on it, she might not s3
tacit dome
Right. That makes sense.
When I was initially runing it and kahli was so squishy, I was thinking that it would be very possible for fuuki to s2 + proc and kill kahli and then its hard
tacit dome
I feel like my right side artifacts are absolute garbage, but I'm also apprehensive about farming them because I am unsure right side does much of anything
So like, for example (just random example - not saying i'm going to do this) if I skill up lulu's s2, it gives 10% recovery. Is that the same as 10% recovery from a right side artifact?
It feels very inconsequential a lot of the time and I am just confused
tacit dome
Are they actually worth farming for siege?
gleaming vapor
I just tested my lulu heal to give you an example
3600 s3 without arti
4300 with 20% arti
earnest shore
Oh right side arts are fucking nuts in siege
gleaming vapor
I think both left artis are really important to farm especially cause after you put your hands on some good ones you can keep swaping them
left and right*
earnest shore
Acc, recovery, adds and crit/inc effects are all hella valid and help a lot
Especially acc and recovery
earnest shore
But if you run double snipes a solid right side on both can easily be the difference between win and loss
In terms of damage
They're just super useful all around
gleaming vapor
Having stuff like +acc on arti can free you to have more stats on runes as well
and etc
tacit dome
Hmmm okay. A lot of the artifacts I use are very green I feel.
gleaming vapor
As you may know I just started power farming artis recently and god all my attacks feel so much safer now
earnest shore
SF and PC will take your comps from good to great
gleaming vapor
It's honestly insane how they make a huge dif
earnest shore
Well sf to great and PC to outstanding
gleaming vapor
also Hi nup hope you're feeling better
earnest shore
Hi I'm fine someone else has my acc now
So I can't be bothered instead I'll spend excessive on upgrading my computer setup into insanity status
tacit dome
I know about SF10. I have pretty good left side actually. I just haven't really done PC10.
tacit dome
Actually. Come to think of it. For this, would it not technically be safest to have both DDs on will as well as a shield set for safety against draco?
tacit dome
ruby torrent
Will furyn sponsor me?
tacit dome
Furyn eSports
thin oxide
Let’s start a sw unofficial discord guild and get these whales to sponsor us all
stuck abyss
tacit dome
good idea, we'll call it landrise
stuck abyss
sugar whales
inland sedge
The last game I played I was in a guild named blubbery boys
True story
Wait we spelled it like this
inland sedge
Will furyn sponsor me?
I’m f2p now
inland sedge
I know about SF10. I have pretty good left side actually. I just haven't really ...
True siege Main
thin oxide
It’s ok f2p whales are good too
Since you’re not buying for your own account you’re still technically f2p
tacit dome
True siege Main
earnest shore
nup said hes gonna sponsor therion instead of spending on sw
Therion is cool but no more is going towards anyone's SW from me
tacit dome
that's okay, your friendship is all i could ask for and much more
thin oxide
sacred fossil
we're you there for our oci siege therion?
I'd consider that pretty hard
but Good Luck!
tacit dome
we're you there for our oci siege therion?
Yes. I went 9-1
tacit dome
Had another very poor siege
will preface this with I am basically always full rune swapping in siege now because I really want to 10-0 and have been for awhile
#1 - is fine, but I prefer skogul to roid. it's safer.
**#2 - Loss **- Orion defense broke racuni, seara hit racuni, then Manannan hit racuni for 70k damage. I noticed it was a violent orion, so I went back and cleaved, but I thought the offense would work well and I was surprised it was so poor. Not sure what I could have done different. Perhaps I can bernard galleon julie? I'm always afraid to race since the fastest I can make draco is +205.
#3 - N/A
#4 - Fine
#5 - Fine, standard
#6 - Fine, standard
**#7 - Loss **- This was an offense I was recommended. I think it is very bad. I fully rune swapped as I said. I think this just loses to 85 accuracy seara, period. Either that or I got extremely unlucky/hard rune gapped, as I full swapped here.
**#8 - Loss **- I don't really know what I could have done different. This is one of the offenses I've perceived as best against seara nora theomars. I guess I could have swapped to no res build on everyone since I knew they had accuracy? I am unsure what else I could have done though, really.
#9 - Fine, standard
#10 - Risky
earnest shore
Hitting Seara Orion LD is going to be risky pretty much forever until you either premium it out or you get a +225 Draco set and a wicked Kahli set to guarantee you can make it 2v3 round one. It's one of the things that Orion still has going for him imo.
tacit dome
Okay. From now on I'll opt to skip and leave those for others
earnest shore
re: #8, what was def turn order
thin oxide
LDs like mananan do make it easier to cleave but harder to bruiser
so yea. just skip it and let people with swift runes cleave it
the leo feng tetra is fine you probably got unlucky, how did you die?
i personally think you can make it slightly safer by using xing instead of feng, you have added HP lead which is better vs seara than the def lead, plus you have some sort of proc protection
but in the end you can always still lose
earnest shore
actually regardless I think if you weren't already, nemesis tetra should prevent both Theo and Seara from wailing on her without her cutting in to cleanse and give herself a small heal + cleanse a potential defbreak?
Is your tetra like super super fat HP?
tacit dome
Hmmm. I am not sure what the turn order was, I tried to check the replay in guild chat
I did use nemesis tetra
I died to seara bombing me twice
thin oxide
yea xing will fuck that up
earnest shore
twice as in s2 s1 s1 s2 s3?
thin oxide
(seara taking a million turns)
tacit dome
So leo xing zhe tetra. Okie dokie.
earnest shore
or twice as in the 2nd time your tetra just died?
tacit dome
It was not quite that unlucky
It was bomb, she hit, then she got a second turn before tetra got one, placed another bomb and detonated it
earnest shore
ah...
tacit dome
That is true though for sure, the HP lead could definitely make a big difference. Let me give you the build I used on tetra
I think maybe I just needed more pure HP
earnest shore
I feel like res might help for theo but make it weaker to Seara procs
big tradeoff
tacit dome
It was definitely 85% accuracy seara
And nora is going to be max accuracy so res doesn't matter there
Hmmm.
thin oxide
with leo 0 spd build you absolutely should be going for 100 res
it feels like so much wasted efficiency not to get that 100 res if you dont also need spd, like you only need 2 stats
earnest shore
I think this was just an unfortunate case if tetra couldn't get a turn tbh
thin oxide
being able to resist theo is huge, also most searas are not 85 acc
tacit dome
Right. That makes sense.
earnest shore
Cause yeah you could drop res go mega tank then Theo will s2 s1 you and do enough damage to where Seara kills you from the same health anyways lol
Also curious, why FY here?
I feel like if FY isn't directly tanking someone he's not quite as impactful as he could be
tacit dome
For sure. I think he doesn't fit as well as xing zhe when I think more about it. Part of it for me is he just slays theomars very very easily. But xing zhe can do the same and I reckon I can probably find other units that can also
tacit dome
I could do something like this next time instead of nem for a bit more ehp. I'm having trouble finding good builds in swop. I guess I will make sure I use xing zhe next time either way
earnest shore
Naw I think nem is way too good for the turn 1 battle plan here
Also real talk how do people feel about Ritesh here as a tanky wind bruiser
tacit dome
I use him on defense
But that is mostly due to lack of options haha
I think I'd just use nora instead if I could
earnest shore
Meditate is a huge heal, he has aoe defbreak s3 and s1 with a bit of crit should easily do a good amnt of punch Theo and Seara out damage
tacit dome
So like xing zhe ritesh tetra or something?
Hmm. Maybe it could work with leo.
Yeah I am unsure. Maybe. I could test it
tacit dome
could I have some suggestions vs manon molly perna/manon cichlid perna? i was thinking about icaru chilling elucia vs the molly variant?
inland sedge
Bolverk 
Windy in general should be really good here
Dmg manon can crush the Icaru team and molly makes it hard to lock down
tacit dome
Yeah I'd bolverk if I had
I had a loss vs khmun vigor liu mei
I think I brought a bad team
But I also think that I piloted poorly
Didn't realize I was supposed to be sleeping the khmun
Will share
tacit dome
inland sedge
Only def break is manon and if you have immunity + dark + wind you’re never getting def broken except small windows
tacit dome
replay is quite long
tacit dome
I wonder if feng woosa dark unit just claps this
I'm worried cichlid strips and game is hard
inland sedge
Oh I was thinking for molly
tacit dome
Ah
I'm checking the last time I asked about khmun vigor liu mei
I think I just see julie and malite lulu vigor
This seems fair but I feel like it's a little bit scary, the first one
tacit dome
Had another loss.
inland sedge
Game said no
thin oxide
Try to proc more next time
inland sedge
How much acc on vigor tho. I feel ur a little low dmg into khmun shield
thin oxide
Also I think I would prioritize elucia s3 on Monte
dull ruin
was about to ask that, that sleep on eshir at 0.17
when he had no CDs, was needed? '-'
tacit dome
Also I think I would prioritize elucia s3 on Monte
Are you focusing khmun first then with this? Normally I try to sleep khmun/eshir and spam freeze on monte
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
inland sedge
Monte is sometimes max res. If you have acc in arts it’s prolly enough
tacit dome
I can try to put him on more res. I do use vigor a lot so I want him to have a real set
tacit dome
It felt like I really couldn't kill anything though 
Like is the offense not good vs khmun monte eshir?
earnest shore
Are you focusing khmun first then with this? Normally I try to sleep khmun/eshir...
focus eshir probs, khmun will tunnel onto windy and then perma sleep monte
tacit dome
Hmmm. Okay.
earnest shore
its similar to khmun bastet odin from way back when where u want the aoe defbreaker perma slept cause you cant proc out of 2t sleep
then 2v3ing monte should be way less dangerous
tacit dome
I just felt like it was hard to break khmun's shield
earnest shore
u can probably alternate damage a bit between khmun and eshir until people are destroyed but i would make sure you try your best to never let monte move or let him as little as possible
tacit dome
Got it.
earnest shore
freezing eshir also kills the tempo buff from spd buffs* so yeah
if you focus eshir and sleep monte you shouldnt have too many issues with shields eventually because they should not have too many spd buffs
tacit dome
I will do that from now on
I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with my vigor, I'm not sure how I can improve him 🤔
civic steeple
Had another loss.
Always sleep the solo unit imo (liu mei or monte) and focus the unit which you dont easily tank (eshir or Vigor) . I saw u misplay a lot using vigor s2 into windy s2. Better just safe windy s2 for when your units are running out if speedbuff and just do some dmg +possible slow on monte /lm instead. Havent faced a lot of khmun eshir monte so not sure if that's actually a counter
civic steeple
For the Khmun vigor lm tho: the fight looks horrible. Your dmg output is way too low to actually do dmg to anything and you also seem to have no destroy sets so this fight war bound to be lost from the start from what i can see. No idea how you want to break through khmun vigof with basically just jultan dmg. The most common counter that i know from top siege is elucia vigor windy but i think dark tank versions with jubelle or jultan are also nice, you're just easier trapped by a super slow high dmg KV lm trap i think. If u want to use lulu tho, the only counter that i have grown to like is Susano lulu jubelle because you just need a lot more dmg with lulu in the team
tacit dome
Always sleep the solo unit imo (liu mei or monte) and focus the unit which you d...
this all makes a lot of sense
there were a few times it felt silly using windy s2, but i couldn't really put it into words
civic steeple
Yeah it's not like an insane misplay but i thought i'd point it out
Can i see your windy artis +runes? He Hits like a wet noodle
tacit dome
For the Khmun vigor lm tho: the fight looks horrible. Your dmg output is way too...
Yeah I think this offense is really bad for sure.
civic steeple
Actually would be nice kf you show your vigor too
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
tacit dome
With windy I switch to +/- element because I am still scared of dying. Is it better to stay on add'l?
civic steeple
Ehhh i'm not sure vs monte tbh
But as your vigor also doesnt really do any dmg might be better xD
tacit dome
To be honest I felt very rune gapped that attack
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here are the requested monsters.
provided by SWARFARM
civic steeple
I Was about to say that lol
tacit dome
Left one
civic steeple
I think for the off in General it's also a slight rune issue
tacit dome
Think maybe it just has to be icaru elucia chilling
civic steeple
Like my leaders told me for the team to run +30khp Max cr decent acc vio will vigor who is on 5tick with speedbuff
tacit dome
Maybe I let my guild mates hit and confirm it isn't swift eshir
Idk the term 5tick :D
239 or 286?
civic steeple
Yeah i also just dont know good it even is into the khmun monte eshir
286
My bad
civic steeple
Idk the term 5tick :D
Idk the numbers lol
tacit dome
I definitely can't make +30k 100% cr vio will with my best runes
civic steeple
yeah it was pretty insane
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here are the requested monsters.
provided by SWARFARM
civic steeple
gleaming vapor
what about jultan vigor lulu into the lm one
but giving vigor some real cr.. not max but like 60 ish
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
tacit dome
This is the closest I can do with that @civic steeple
So very very far off
(only totem enabled)
warped raptor
I am so damn glad this thread was made lmfao
tacit dome
I hope it helps you :D
There's a lot we talk about and if you are looking for more entry level siege questions, there's an older thread before I started in g3
https://discord.com/channels/109904961969586176/1050413235360235520 Here is a link to the first iteration of this thread. This can be a good learning resource for players getting into siege for real defenses that you may encounter in g1 with real examples.
civic steeple
Here is your build.
With artis?
warped raptor
I'll check it out
tacit dome
Without artis!
civic steeple
Not sure if i need a bit more sod tho
Oh
Well that's good enough then
Remember you want him to br 286 with speedbuff
craggy hornetBOT
Speed - Ticks to reach 100% ATB
Combat speed 477 = 3 Ticks
Combat speed 358 = 4 Ticks
Combat speed 286 = 5 Ticks
Combat speed 239 = 6 Ticks
Combat speed 205 = 7 Ticks
Combat speed 179 = 8 Ticks
tacit dome
I mean speed buff basically always bumps you up a tick
civic steeple
Oh
Well no i mean 286
I guess that would make it a lot easier to rune him too :p
tacit dome
Think i ran something like this<:KEKW:731981199232467005>
This one is odd because it's not 239 tick or 286
It's 239 total
civic steeple
This one is odd because it's not 239 tick or 286
Yeah i just slapoed random stuff together, unsure of how much spdbuff coveres lol
tacit dome
I'm not entirely sure how it works out math wise to be honest
@fallow sail Pls help, need math expertise
In all seriousness though
fallow sail
Wats the question
tacit dome
what about jultan vigor lulu into the lm one
I think it seems better than the offense I was using. But I still am apprehensive
Okay so if we have a vigor, right, and he uses speed buff
How much +speed would he need to get to 358 tick?
Or rather
More importantly
Is that number above 239?
craggy hornetBOT
idiot (mod/advisor) nice reading comprehension
tacit dome
I meant 286
fallow sail
fallow sail
Yeah same question diff number
tacit dome
220
So
In both cases
For all intensive purposes
You go up a speed tick with speed buff
fallow sail
So basically speed buff just puts you up a tick
Unless you’re really slow then it might be 2 ticks
tacit dome
While I have you here still. What do you think about vs khmun vigor liu mei for non-cleave options?
fallow sail
Iirc you can just MVL that lol
gleaming vapor
yes u can
tacit dome
I think that it is not very safe
I know about the offense, I just am unsure it is safe'
fallow sail
Basically
LM has to absolutely pop off
For you to lose
Bc if lulu moves
Or malite moves
And they aren’t cced
tacit dome
fallow sail
You just start a lock
fallow sail
It can lose but only into the damage variants that get to pop off
tacit dome
@civic steeple i appreciate you going through and giving piloting feedback. from now on i'll be uploading all of my losses to show the piloting so perhaps that can be improved as well
civic steeple
you're welcome, i'll gladly continue giving you my two Cents on it
warped raptor
does anyone here have slot 4 cd on their khmun?
or does he not need cr/cd stats to do his thing
old marsh
Late to the party, but an offense I like into KVL is Harmonia, Jultan, Water Dhalsim (think Kyle for non event)
Harmonia/Jultan will take all the hits from KVL, allowing for Water Dhalsim to have passive up to nuke something and win (LM s3 rng might turn off passive)
Can lose to LM Revenge procs to put def break on him, so play accordingly
Harmonia/Jultan follows usual build. Water Dhalsim i've had at 205 tick, 100 cr
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
tacit dome
does anyone here have slot 4 cd on their khmun?
CDMG is very difficult to make happen. I previously had khmun on CR and just recently got a really nice slot 4 rune with high CR on HP% and used that instead.
quartz crescent
or does he not need cr/cd stats to do his thing
Just Cr is fine
dull ruin
CDMG is very difficult to make happen. I previously had khmun on CR and just rec...
I think I discussed this with futoo and hippo recently, and they both suggested just aiming towards 100 cr and not bothering much going cdmg, so that I could prioritize speed and tankiness
fallow sail
Honestly cd is overrated on khmun
Unless you’re trying to punish a bruiser offense it’s just not worth the effort
tacit dome
I think I discussed this with futoo and hippo recently, and they both suggested ...
yes I know. neither of these players are siege players, just so you know
i've tried pure hp, cr and cdmg. i think cdmg can work if you have very high rune quality but in general it's sort of not really what you're trying to do with khmun. you're basically always trying to bruiser with khmun with destroy anyways so there's really not so much point in playing with cdmg
when you're starting getting cr can be hard, so just pure HP is fine
i don't prioritize 100% cr over tankiness. I'd rather be tankier and have ballpark in that area
nocturne ridgeBOT
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
tacit dome
@fallow sail Is this correct?
I'm not sure if the stats are correct though. I am curious if more tankiness is important
I think icaru can be runed significantly better because I didn't add defense tower. I could have lower def than this
civic steeple
Bernard?
tacit dome
That was how I was told to do it
civic steeple
interesting
tacit dome
If I can get this to work I can set the offense up 3 times. I'll just need to build 2 more chillings which is not a problem
civic steeple
primal abyss
damn thats a red chilling
tacit dome
😔
primal abyss
and only one 
tacit dome
we're good i can build it i had one stashed away, i just need to get perfect skill up
primal abyss
just build 30 monte and learn to procc like the monte yesterday, then u can go 30/0 every siege
dull ruin
May I drop a quick question regarding chilling?
tacit dome
yeah sure
dull ruin
Would revenge work on his passive?
tacit dome
i don't care anymore these days, i want people to ask questions
civic steeple
yes i think so
tacit dome
and people aren't using h&a enough
dull ruin
I like the idea of general threads tbh, like a thread just to fire small questions, but at the same time it becomes hard to track stuff
primal abyss
h&a should really be used more, just a great part of this discord
civic steeple
gz
primal abyss
ok i stop spam my own thread but just saying player diff we good
op
tacit dome
the thread was getting super flooded before so it was hard to get my siege questions answered
fallow sail
How fast is ur chilling
dull ruin
Ill write on general to not spam here
fallow sail
This is a rune swap offense lol
fallow sail
FARM GIANTS NERD
🧑🌾
fallow sail
craggy hornetBOT
idiot (mod/advisor) nice reading comprehension
fallow sail
Uh
If you’re not using this to hit swift ones too
You might as well just use the snipe comps
The whole point of this offense is it blind hits both swift and vio/despair
If you’re dodging swift bc scout just use cleaves
tacit dome
the thing is I'm still scared of cleaving because my cleave sucks
i lushened yesterday and i was so nervous going in
thought i was gonna not kill or some shit
and i'm talking rune swpa of course
let me show my lushen
the goal is
i want to be able to hit 4* towers
and 4* tower is monte
that is the current 4* tower meta
that and khmun vigor liu mei apparently
fallow sail
Julie
dull ruin
Entrei advisor when
tacit dome
like i lushened one of the defenses yesterday
dull ruin
Do you also have/use that leo feng aaliyah team that I see lots of streamers splashing therion?
fallow sail
tacit dome
but in general i shy away from cleaving
i do have that op as fuck right side artifact that you've seen
but i mean that doesn't make up for this quality of runes
tacit dome
Do you also have/use that leo feng aaliyah team that I see lots of streamers spl...
i don't have aaliyah 
i do feng velajuel mihael
let me see what the best julie i can make is
tacit dome
@fallow sail
here are the runes used
like i just feel like it isn't enough
did you see the monte incident ent?
tacit dome
Had another loss.
here it is if you haven't seen it
tacit dome
Yeah. Next time. Well. Honestly. I don't know if I'm going to run this offense again. I don't really want to hit monte anymore. It's too hard. That was why I wanted to set up chilling icaru elucia
Kind of feels impossible to win >80% of the time and I really don't want to go into a tower with an 80% winrate
That's why I've been asking because honestly feeling very helpless against monte recently :D
jolly swift
This is a rune swap offense lol
Leak your runes for it?
warped raptor
That's why I've been asking because honestly feeling very helpless against monte...
You're definitely in a better guild than me, but the 4 times I went up against monte, I used carc, triana, iris
It was eshir instead of vigor tho.
tacit dome
You're definitely in a better guild than me, but the 4 times I went up against m...
i missed the iris hoh, also this still loses to swift eshir or monte proccing or iris not despair stunning unfortunately
the issue isn't so much that i can't beat it, it's that i can't beat it consistently
warped raptor
Monte was surprising
Was gonna build one maybe, but someone on general discord said that monte teams in g1 has a much lower success rate than in g3
So I pushed that team down the priority list
tacit dome
That was probably me
What you have to understand
The thing about monte that makes him good, now, there is tech that people don't know I'm sure that solves the defenses
But basically for the plebs that dont have the top secret tech that probably exists
It's either icaru elucia chilling which requires supreme rune quality (unless we are talking about Eshir lead)
Or you can just. Well. Look at the monte incident above
And the second option is inconsistent
It might win 9/10 times
But 9/10 is not good enough in g3
In g1 winning 10% of the time is bad
Like your defenses can win 50% of the time when they aren't even that good
Or if you smurf you can get some crazy shit
Currently in the g1 account I am piloting
I have jultan eshir vigor with a 50% winrate
warped raptor
I'm new to "serious" siege and I figured stuff like that isn't for me right now
Was gonna stick to the tried and tested and work up from there
tacit dome
As you should
If you want specific recommendations feel free to open a thread and we can help you
jolly swift
What you have to understand
The thing about monte that makes him good, now, ther...
I’ve run into the same issues with turn 2into Monte
tacit dome
Had another loss.
here's the monte incident
i'm just done hitting monte i feel like until i figure something out
jolly swift
Khmun racuni malite was safe for me until Monte 100% to 0% my malite
warped raptor
If you want specific recommendations feel free to open a thread and we can help ...
Sec
jolly swift
Ent hit the nail on the head with “FARM MORE GIANTS”
warped raptor
If you want specific recommendations feel free to open a thread and we can help ...
I'll make a question in help and advice right?
tacit dome
yep, you can make a thread
warped raptor
posted
warped raptor
yep, you can make a thread
I checked thru someone elses siege thread, do you need me to post my logs?
tacit dome
If you post logs that will help, I'll take a look when I can here
warped raptor
get ready to cringe
tacit dome
it's okay I don't judge
fallow sail
Leak your runes for it?
That would require me keeping this god forsaken offense runed
jolly swift
Just for whenever you run it and what you run it into
tacit dome
Dead I hate to burst your bubble
The odds of ent runing this offense again
PROBABLY not
x)
He is cleave enjoyer right now, just chilling
give me a few months haha
i'll get the entrei seal of approval on my +170 swift sets
fallow sail
Just for whenever you run it and what you run it into
So
Despite me being the guy who started this offense in sf
I don’t actually run this at all
Bc too much work
jolly swift
xD
inland sedge
thin oxide
xD
i don't recommend running this offense at all either. just too much work. it's one of those things where you have to break so many premium sets to make 3 specific premium sets
this isn't the first time an offense like this comes along where i've said fuck this too much work/too high rune reqs
for example there was that MST counter with dark windy that i said fuck this too
inland sedge
I like dark windy
It’s probably worth testing and trying these comps for practice and understanding
If you just wanna win with high % in reg season you just cleave with Intel
Esp all this Clara stuff
thin oxide
It’s probably worth testing and trying these comps for practice and understandin...
yea this for sure
i build and test practically every single comp ive seen others use or i've read about
as long as i have the units
probably only 20% of the builds i test with end up seeing a real siege fight
tacit dome
probably only 20% of the builds i test with end up seeing a real siege fight
the problem i have with this is i simply don't have enough mana to test, i was considering going to g1 for one season and not rune swapping at all just so i'd be able to actually rune swap and test consistently
but at the same time i really don't want to because i just want to play g3 siege
tacit dome
i also am almost always full rune swapping because there's just too much of a disparity i feel between my runes and the people i'm fighting
and i don't mind! i just wish it was not so hard on mana
frozen spindle
It used to be worse 
tacit dome
It used to be worse <:woah:1098932775123427378>
what do you mean?
also i think i understand a lot of veteran siege players are tired, i still have crazy fiery resolve and motivation, so i don't mind putting in lots of work
frozen spindle
The mana cost got halved at some point, so it was 50k per rune
So i used to burn mana at an insane rate too rune swapping and testing haha
tacit dome
So i used to burn mana at an insane rate too rune swapping and testing haha
ohhh yeah. i honestly don't know what i'd do. i think i'd just give up at that point and definitely spend a few seasons farming mana
the solution
realistically speaking is i just need to swipe more
frozen spindle
Use those coins for mana
tacit dome
tacit dome
haha
frozen spindle
tacit dome
right now i'm okay
and i have fren letting me test that has unlimited mana + god runes
frozen spindle
I know its not optimal, but if i really needed mana i would hahaha
tacit dome
i've done it
frozen spindle
And im pretty sure i did at one point too lmao
tacit dome
i've been chilling poverty line forever
but right now usually before siege i'm at like 20m mana and end at 10 to 13
but any time i want to upgrade runes or anything i'm screwed
tacit dome
Is it worthwhile to devilmon Tiana? For once I am actually out of monsters to devilmon I think. I could start doing dupe vigor but that seems odd
My theomars also is not maxed but I am unsure about that as well
Normally I always devilmon defense but it seems a bit not worth in this case
thin oxide
what are your options again
tiana is definitely a strong contender
theo is also 100% worth devils in my opinion but only if you want more defs. he is currently a top 10 siege def mon in the game and even more important considering he's f2p. also you will never run out of tesas to want to skill up with buying ifrit pieces every week
tacit dome
I am unsure I have any other meaningful options. There aren't any other nat 5s I use I think that aren't skilled up. Both my galleons have harmful effect rate maxed on s3. I can't find any other options.
I am still having the issue of not being able to build meaningful defenses.
We stack clara monte fuuki and I can't max skill fuuki.
#4 is an extra for if we are blue mapping
I always refresh so people won't know to reuse offenses or what have you
But overall the top one I think has only gotten 2 or 3 wins out of 15 or so. I improved the runes recently but it is still very unsuccessful
None of them get wins against strong guilds
Where can I check this on SWGT again? I know there is a place where you can check def winrates
primal abyss
Where can I check this on SWGT again? I know there is a place where you can chec...
I just know where to check it for a single siege if u mean that, idk about overall wr tho
tacit dome
Yeah for overall
primal abyss
trying to find it rn
tacit dome
Ty!
The khmun monte Eshir is also extra
I know khmun is not on tick
It's mostly the top two I am focused on
inland sedge
the meta with tiana rn is shes actually a DD
so the dmg on s2 is actually pretty important - i would just max that
tacit dome
I will check when I am home
tacit dome
so the dmg on s2 is actually pretty important - i would just max that
That was what I was thinking
My current plan is to fully devilmon her since I will wait to get them to go until 2nd skill until s1 and s3 are maxed 
tacit dome
@inland sedge Tiana cheongpung
inland sedge
yeah i think its important
primal abyss
Damn gz, teach me how to be so good at using devilmons
inland sedge
Op
thin oxide
i want tiana s1 skillups
the only times you don't kill stuff/are at risk of losing is if you miss def breaks. if you hit your def breaks its really hard ot not kill anything between cp + tiana
frozen spindle
Where can I check this on SWGT again? I know there is a place where you can chec...
I can show later, but you have to keep pulling data from siege which i dont have time to do (and it wont show up unless its seen by exporter before you refresh the w/l of the base)
tacit dome
I can show later, but you have to keep pulling data from siege which i dont have...
i'll do it, i just need to know how
tacit dome
#1 - Good, standard I think (did cdmg triana and accuracy logan, killed nigong first)
#2 - I like this one a lot. I actually got pretty unlucky and still won.
#3 - Standard
#4 - Standard
#5 - Tried another new offense I was recommended. Do not like. Will not be using again.
#6 - I forgot to use tetra, but I still think that this offense is quite good.
#7 - Standard
#8 - Scouted and recleaved
#9 - Standard I believe. I think it's a little bit scary for mihael but overall seems pretty safe
#10 - Scouted and recleaved
tacit dome
Everything look clear? What does everyone think?
thin oxide
i don't love some of those khmun eshir monte counters but i guess you just don't really have many options
tacit dome
I know #5 is bad. Do you not like #2?
thin oxide
i've used mikene before. carc double reviver is really popular but i've said i don't like it due to lack of cleanse
mikene teon has no cleanse and no immunity
i'd feel better if you had premium options like amarna or betta
even heal block fucks you
and every single enemy has heal block
tacit dome
you're right. I also didn't manage to one shot eshir after killing monte which felt very sus
basically solution is whale more
must unlock premium option
thin oxide
yea there are actually quite a lot of good counters but literally all of them involve ld4s
tacit dome
well
it's that or i sack my ass off in giants and get 3 +210 sets with stats
that's the current plan
thin oxide
i think i'd still rather cleave with shitty cleave
than try to bruiser without ld4s
and by shitty cleave i mean just standard stuff even like lushen
julie
garo draco kahli
tacit dome
i want to be able to use icaru chilling elucia
thin oxide
or susano/mihyang wayne/bernard cov
tacit dome
I know it isn't fool proof but like today when I did siege. I was streaming for 5 hours. I rune swapped every offense fully I believe. I don't mind doing it. I'd prefer not to but I've been losing so much lately that I would rather put in the time and get wins
So icaru chilling elucia is no trouble - I just need to get the runes
I am trying to cleave more though!
I don't want to be one dimensional