With a Fran buff up
#[ARCHIVED] Siege Advice (Starting Season of December 2022)
tough rose
Makes sense.
tranquil junco
Tesa s2 does 20k on a good set easy
I would personally cleave this
Probably smth like mihy lushen
tough rose
Galleon cheongpung tiana?
tranquil junco
Ya
I like Kona
Bc water is relevant here
The Odin miles def you can probably just garo kona covenant
Miles can move first, just be a tad bulky on garo so it takes 2 procs to kill
Murder miles
Garo 1v2s
tough rose
I have mihyang and kona vs a dismounted narsha and tesa
tranquil junco
*vamp destroy garo
tranquil junco
I have mihyang and kona vs a dismounted narsha and tesa
Yep
tough rose
Ok. I'll keep it in mind. I can't build garo on destroy yet but when I can I will.
tough rose
Savannah?
Ah. So is goal for mihyang to take turn 1?
My resurgers are normally just fast
I'm trying to figure out how that would work in my head with her going first
tranquil junco
So
Mihy is fast ish
So turn order goes
Kona s2 on lushen
Lushen kills Fran, dismounts narsha
Mihy s2 targeting narsha
Narsha is down
Tesa goes
Probably kills lushen
Now it’s two water supports
One of which has damage
VS a Tesa
summer stone
Is there a reason you take mihyang over a susano?
tranquil junco
Is there a reason you take mihyang over a susano?
Mihy takes a hit better really
Tesa s1-2 can cope a kill on a unit
Susano just dies there
twin gate
i think this is a case where susano is actually better tbh
his stat allocations tend to be somewhat bulky to where its not unreasonable for him to survive a tesa hit or two
not to mention the first hit will almost never crit, and if you actually managed to get 50 resist which i see a lot of people aim for, its a solid chance for him to resist the obliv/defbreaks
also the atb steal on s2 is solid for lapping people
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rigid plover
Very low chance yeah
tough rose
some more options vs khmun vigor skogul that are not kve?
carmine mason
I like different dark tank for lm usually
I’ve vigor Mallite lulu this
And julied
tough rose
some more options vs khmun vigor skogul that are not kve?
most people say jubelle, what is good +2? khmun racuni? some other options?
shell vapor
most people say jubelle, what is good +2? khmun racuni? some other options?
u don’t want double fire here cause vigor will def break
Do two wind instead
just care the khmun melting u
tough rose
also vs khmun vigor liu mei? chacha bulkier logan triana?
@full dragon didn't you used to run this vs some liu mei variant?
trying to figure out what the +2 wind could be with jubelle
shell vapor
u can just do cd triana and logang
shell vapor
make sure they don’t have negative HP and they won’t die to khmun
shell vapor
my only cleanse is triana and she is on cdmg? <:monkaGIGA:913644748814811206>
well chacha has a cleanse too 
triana doesn’t get def broken
Cause the vigor funnels onto chacha
but tbh I would much rather use jubelle in the first place
and having secondary cleanse into LM is important 
tough rose
well chacha has a cleanse too <:sushmmge:957273508180815912>
i thought you were saying logan triana jubelle
shell vapor
i thought you were saying logan triana jubelle
susano lulu jubelle is another option 
tough rose
what's this jubelle on?
shell vapor
triple rev
hp/hp/hp
205 tick
lulu and susano are 100 res 286 tick
which isn't too hard to do cause susano 30% lead
and 50% res from passive for susano
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tough rose
does mei hou wang see much use in siege these days? i just got him and i'm curious if he is a storage guardian
tough rose
i got plenty more to devilmon either way
tranquil junco
Last thing I heard him being used for was against Giana?
tough rose
he seems decent for rta bruiser but that's for the rta thread, and i have plenty more to build there anyways
shell vapor
tranquil junco
he seems decent for rta bruiser but that's for the rta thread, and i have plenty...
He’s not
tough rose
vs louise shazam kinki?
i wanted to do double snipe but last time i tried it failed
i went with chiwu chacha kaki
carmine mason
double snipe might be risky here because its 3 tanky units with hp lead
you could save tiana cp for this if u have
i think u could also bolverk it
chacha double fire too
pref some strip in there
twin gate
yea i'd be double sniping or tiana cping this
cause bruiser can get a bit unwieldy with shazam's revenge buff
carmine mason
i think double snipe if you have sonia / beth is fine
id be scared to odin/cov etc into 44 hp lead shazam
tough rose
id be scared to odin/cov etc into 44 hp lead shazam
i lost to a momo shazam trying to shoot shazam the other day, but also only +8% light so 
(cov praline sonia)
i guess cheongpung tiana is the most sensible
carmine mason
we did have two people fail to cp cleave a dom shazamm nana yday in our siege lol
unlucky 
tranquil junco
vs louise shazam kinki?
i wanted to do double snipe but last time i tried it fai...
The def breaks are all light
You can probably chacha healer dd this
Just kinda durdle on Louise while waiting for Shazam to not have rev buff up
So he dies first
Logan chacha Triana probably works fine
Leave Louise for last so you can toss the unimportant hits at her without eating revenges
summer stone
yea i'd be double sniping or tiana cping this
like cov kahli bastet?
twin gate
yeah something along those lines
make sure bastet is high accuracy because her s2 is pretty important here
summer stone
can you galleon isellia/stripper kaki it too?
silk grotto
I probably wouldnt
without tiana
cause shazam s1 strip+def break -> kinki s2 could kill/stun something important
tough rose
i usually use water twins with felleria in siege for vs mst
sabrina was on will broken before
so what about double shield will instead? sometimes felleria gets proc'd on and dies
it's not like she needs more damage or violent. if felleria lives i win. and in other comps the shield set can help with survival to turn 2
it's not a huge difference but could save her
unique flame
her damage doesn't look that high. you would fail to kill tanky shainas
overall water twins is just not that great of a counter in today's game
tough rose
hp/hp/hp?
that makes sense. i do believe in the offense and i've only had difficulties with felleria dying turn 1 to many procs. what do you think is safer than water twins felleria?
unique flame
i personally only do turn 1 comps
if you have to bruiser or turn 2 it, then tlw
i mean you should still use your water twins felleria
it's fine
i just wouldn't put too much effort into trying to make it better
there's just not much you can do
tough rose
if you have to bruiser or turn 2 it, then tlw
this isn't tractor windy lulu, is it?
unique flame
yes tractor windy lulu
unique flame
yea
tough rose
it works great vs my guild's mst. but i need to test it vs a more competitive mst
tough rose
i mean you should still use your water twins felleria
so you do think it is worth running if I have it set up? i was just a little confused because it seemed to be in contrast to what you had said before. i want to play optimally.
tranquil junco
Yeah letting mst move is generally not the greatest idea
Whole lot of random fuck you potential
Most ppl use some order of bethony, Ryan and Miri
unique flame
best/easiest turn 1 comp are the team up comps
tough rose
i got it from cloud who i look up to a lot
unique flame
tq verde raoq, icaru verde ryan
unique flame
i don't count bethony or miri since i assume you dont have them
tough rose
yeah I don't have either
unique flame
there's a few dozer comps that are good too
tranquil junco
Mihy dozer imnesty
unique flame
some people just straight up dozer imesety copper
tough rose
is that swift on one of the two?
unique flame
and just pray the shaina goes first and martina doesnt strip dozer
unique flame
or you can just have insane cracked runes and go swift dozer on that
mihyang dozer imesety is swift on both mihyang and imesety. mihyang moves first
tranquil junco
Mihy softens, dozer confirms kill
tough rose
i'm assuming skill ups are very important for mihyang?
carmine mason
Mihyang is the best elemental sky dancer imo
I’m gonna make a third
But skillups help her a lot yes
tough rose
some suggestions vs khmun vigor roid?
tranquil junco
^
I like rina Triana Logan
Just scout out roids offset before you touch him with no immunity
tough rose
i'm gonna redo my logan i think then
carmine mason
tough rose
i'm not sure how much will even matters
in a lot of these situations but i'd rather be safe than sorry
carmine mason
for this offense u need hp slot 6
i guess ehps are similar
but i would lean to the high ehp one
tough rose
i can go higher ehp
i can even gem some more hp in
.
like so @carmine mason ?
i gemmed a bit more hp in
carmine mason
ya i would run that
looks decent
i would just do +ele left side depending on matchup
but atk up aint bad
tough rose
i tried rina roid triana cdmg and hardly lost but i feel like i at least was on the right track with rina + double wind bruiser, just wasn't the right picks
carmine mason
i think logan isnt ideal because u still need to tank some dmg
how did u lose btw
did rina die or did logan die
tough rose
heck i don't have replay
i don't remember exactly but i think roid got defense broke and then several violent procs and died
carcano procc'd 4 times in a row and killed triana then i lost 1v1 to carcano
carmine mason
some suggestions vs khmun vigor roid?
tough rose
jesus i'm all over the place today
apologies
CARCANO vigor roid
it's good, i've played vs khmun vigor roid also, now i have some more info for this also
tranquil junco
You just abuse the lack of strips usually
tough rose
i'm stumped
oh. fran exists
hmmm. fran malaka triana perhaps.
but malaka has to be beefy enough.
i will think about it tonight and revisit it tomorrow
i think twl can work too. not sure. i want to test it.
tranquil junco
Tractor windy shushu/lala?
What if vigor s3 on shushu
tough rose
i have been assisted in the realization that fran sian skogul is excellent
by a god gamer
unique flame
i have been assisted in the realization that fran sian skogul is excellent
that's a pretty good comp. very easy to build too. personally it's not my favorite against anything as you could lose stuff turn 1/get cc'ed, and also if things don't die to 1 bomb it can be problematic (for example you land bombs, but enemy procs and detonates it and heals before skogul rock drops)
but it's a solid 90-95% comp against a lot of things
tough rose
that's a pretty good comp. very easy to build too. personally it's not my favori...
ah, in this case, i was speaking about vs carcano vigor roid
it is interesting here because this is one of the cases where sian seems better than malaka
since you can't die to edge case vigor/roid procs
tough rose
that's a pretty good comp. very easy to build too. personally it's not my favori...
Do you have any other suggestions vs carcano vigor roid? I was know the comp has no cleanse so bomb is solid. I spent quite a bit of time seeking other solutions. Is there some sort of speed lead sath thrain option?
gaunt torrent
Do you have any other suggestions vs carcano vigor roid? I was know the comp has...
is speed lead necessary? i've run mellia sath thrain into these comps. thrain is vio/will so you just go turn 2
tough rose
Probably not
unique flame
Do you have any other suggestions vs carcano vigor roid? I was know the comp has...
you can try bruiser kaki immunity comps like kaki + 2 of fran/delphoi/triana
maybe malite elucia lulu?
you just can't have only 1 solo water support like tractor windy lulu because roid can lock it down
i haven't seen this def in awhile so i forgot and have to think about it a bit
tough rose
Can malite be kunite here?
unique flame
i feel like if i saw this now most people would just cleave it
but that does take good runes
like lushen or julie
unique flame
kunite is ok too i guess
the benefit of malite is that roid is kinda dangerous and you want your tank to tank the roid too
vigor is the least dangerous of the 3
tough rose
That's true.
Yeah I don't know about cleaving with vigor on 115
That seems risky
Maybe with galleon bernard julie but that seems risky. So I would skip that option
Delphoi seems really good here too
I haven't built her yet but I could fully skill one up without any fusions right now just from what I have I believe
full dragon
ye definitely make Delphoi, she's really good if you want to do a 2x immunity team
You tune your +1 DD to move before immunity buffers to maximize uptime
full dragon
tough rose
oh
i had asked a question before cloud
hold on
i'm not sure if you saw or if it is secret info
full dragon
yeah
You take advantage that Khmun is hitting into non-DEF break damage
so you can run bruiser CD Triana
100% RES Chacha here
I think I have vid of me using it
yeah I do
(timestamped)
Pretty much anytime you're able to run CD Triana, the offense is already really good
DEF lead made it even better too
tough rose
ty ty :D
carmine mason
cloud when is next vid coming
full dragon
I'm a bit preoccupied with a life priority atm before I recommit to Youtube
but I do have something cooking
tough rose
i'm looking forward to it, helps me a lot with learning
So I was told before if I want to play in g3 siege and I'm looking to push closer to the top of the peak, I need to be pushing to have above average runes, so blue runes aren't going to cut it anymore. So I should auto-sell blue runes. But I still feel I have serious depth issues, especially with some specifics like this. I was curious if I could get some other opinions if this is a shared sentiment or not if I'm looking to climb up.
full dragon
You should still keep blues for depth
and some blues that roll max or close to are some of the best runes
tough rose
That is how I feel as well. Especially with innates. But I would like to hear both ends as well on this. I'm open to the idea of being much more strict but I don't feel like I'm quite there yet
full dragon
When you eventually play for a while, you'll get to a point where you'll eventually sell them, which is fine
You'll get more strict later
tough rose
This is comparing my rune efficiency to another g3 guild
full dragon
How high of G3?
full dragon
Also it seems like doing r5 would help your line as well
the max purple line should eventually be under your blue
for example, those slot 4 HP you have
summer stone
how do you get those graphics?
full dragon
They're from Guild SWGT
You submit your .json and it compares your rune efficiency to guildies, and shows you where you stand
summer stone
can it only be done with a premium version?
full dragon
You'll have to ask someone that pays and manages that for a guild, but I think there's a cost for Guild SWGT, but it's only a few dollars a month.
tranquil junco
you can also do it yourself if you know any data science tools
tough rose
I was considering using triana here for more damage. This ended up being a loss. Can I get some other suggestions? I think suiki would be perfect here (don't know if that's how you spell the name, water kaki). My logan is not on accuracy so i couldn't hit the def breaks on rina and lost.
tough rose
yes
water archangel was on nem
i couldn't get his atb depleted consistently enough either
belial was on destroy
logan was on destroy also but not violent
that's a neat idea actually
i wasn't sure if oblivion worked
because when you oblivion beelzebub he can still come back
tranquil junco
I was considering using triana here for more damage. This ended up being a loss....
riley-> triana
legit all you would have needed
tranquil junco
you could herna/tesa this and just kill demon
idt that actually works
tough rose
I don't think I would have had sustain after actually playing it
tranquil junco
you would
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tranquil junco
this doesnt stop him from targeting khmun
so you kill him off
immediately
and bc his s2 is long cooldown
tough rose
he would kill my khmun for sure with revive into s2
tranquil junco
triana
tough rose
ah, that's right
tranquil junco
oblivion works on water demon
noted
i dont see belial often enough to actually know
carmine mason
i re-tested this week
tranquil junco
ty for the wisdom
tough rose
actually i'm positive still this doesn't work
because i couldn't break rina's shield
that was what i was having trouble with
carmine mason
it just buys you time
tough rose
and i don't have accuracy on logan so i couldn't land defense breaks
carmine mason
if u kill belial and he cant revive
tough rose
no no
carmine mason
oh
tough rose
i mean with triana
yeah i can't break my rina's shield
and my rina is not as good as this one's and didn't have 50% hp buff
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tranquil junco
what? all you have to do is switch logan to an attack slot
seeing as the defense youre hitting has 3 water units who wont naturally hit him
tough rose
yes, i see now, you don't need to ... me to tell me that :D
tranquil junco
tough rose
i do not rune swap
but i see now i could and it would work much better
i've stated that several times in this thread already
like this shit makes me not want to ask questions when it's condescending
and i actually am trying to learn. so please don't.
tranquil junco
fine. either case, all you really need for this core type is triana fire tank aggressive wind threat
ethna, hraesvelg, whatever
its an extremely one dimensional defense
tough rose
ty
upper flint
I was considering using triana here for more damage. This ended up being a loss....
Genuine question - wouldn't rina > khmun be enough here? Rina essentially nullifies destroy sets, so you just win with destroy of your own
tough rose
Genuine question - wouldn't rina > khmun be enough here? Rina essentially nullif...
Same problem of not enough damage. Logan rina triana can probably eventually.
tranquil junco
triana tank wind unit
where the tank isnt wind
is all you really need
or just helena wind nuke
upper flint
<:FeelsDankMan:769028607212912682> or just helena wind nuke
That's what I would use, but I think Therion doesn't have Helena iirc
Xing zhe/Helena/hraes
tough rose
@carmine mason when I'm hitting louise/mo long +1, like super tanky, am I just supposed to double snipe? i run into defenses like this frequently and I feel like I want to snipe them but I don't really have enough damage it feels like still
which is one of the reasons i'm still stuck in giants
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carmine mason
44 hp is scary but i feel it depends on the +1
like the problem is if people have -ele
otherwise u can still snipe
tough rose
people say to switch sonia to cr but i've missed one shots before because of lack of damage
carmine mason
i would play around with some builds in your guild
tough rose
it's hard because my guild doesn't have runes
carmine mason
cd sonia is fine for the team ur running
tough rose
i guess at the start of next season i'll start doing that
carmine mason
so for me i - would not double snipe into 44 hp lead with high base hp units
tough rose
assuming i can find my way into a guild. still looking
carmine mason
unless i have bethony sonia
tough rose
okay, next time i see one of these i'll post it
and maybe we can go over some ideas then
tranquil junco
Yeah if you have Sonia you get to do all sorts of crazy shit
unique flame
@tranquil junco can you help him find a low g3 guild
tranquil junco
<@400840817184342018> can you help him find a low g3 guild
I’ll see what I can do
summer stone
Apoc 
tough rose
<@728158806588129281> can i has json
sent it over, thank you
i'm confused why the speed tuning is off on this team
what am i doing wrong here? it is still cuttable
gentle condor
why do you type 245 on bernard, when it has 261
tough rose
i did not type the number
gentle condor
it's from old upload then
tough rose
🤔
gentle condor
type it manually
tough rose
am I ever farming dhole runes again?
or am i gonna be spending dhole energy to 2a permanently basically now?
i know we build as we see that we need more of something
i suspect that there's no way i'm going to go into a siege for a very long time and not feel like i need more of a certain 2a
at the same time, i really do like the runes i've gotten from farming lumel
full dragon
You kind of make 2As as you see yourself needing them.
and do dhole rune dungeon when not doing that
That's how I'm at atm
since you're still building a 2A roster, may do more 2A if you want to prepare, but with metas changing it's probably best to make as needed.
tough rose
i'm sort of in a position right now where i feel like i need like 4 vigors and 4 elucias
tough rose
maybe not 4, probably more like i need 3 more of each, almost every siege i feel like i can hit important difficult bases if i have more elucia/vigor
and if i am going into g3 siege i am unsure what i'm going to need but i think elucia seems to always be a staple
summer stone
I don’t find that i need that many vigor and elucia in siege
I cleave more often then you do I think but making as you need them as cloud said is what I’ve been doing and I only have 2 of each
tough rose
i'm definitely not going to be cleaving in g3 siege
that would be griefing i believe
with my account
i can only play bruiser
which, y'know. elucia and vigor are sort of used for that sort of thing.
perhaps i'm overthinking it
i just really want to be ready for my new guild
summer stone
You will find that the towers your hitting do not appear in g3
tough rose
of course
i'm going to believe that what i was told is true and i'm overestimating people
summer stone
You are, especially lower g3
tough rose
right
summer stone
Anything that’s not like Apoc level is not nearly as bad or threatening as you think
tough rose
i've seen my runes vs runes of players i'm going into and that is extremely intimdating to me
summer stone
It’s just be smart and untilize what you have
You can beat most defense with lower rune quality
Just can’t cleave which is fine
full dragon
I usually say if you want to prepare ahead of time, 3 sets of Vigor + Elucia will usually always be relevant. Otherwise, just make them as needed. Everyone's box is different and having certain offenses means you won't have to 2A as much.
You're the best to know what your account needs
tough rose
like i feel like elucia is some god slayer monster
summer stone
She is
tough rose
for me
summer stone
Locks down a unit
tough rose
because she lets me do so many things i can't do without her
there's a few units like that right now
like khmun as well
god slayer unit
tough rose
@full dragon do you think it's worth to buy the super angelmon when you're going into siege tourney? or start buying weekly and saving?
full dragon
nah
You only buy it during tourney if it's absolute emergency
you'll get free ones from events leading up to tourney that are usually enough
I have 3 atm saved fully from events
and reminder, it's if you don't have time to level something in Faimon and you're rushing to build a counter
tough rose
@unique flame i saw summoner1722 has elsharion on solid runes & also with skillups - where are some examples that you are using elsharion? i don't see any usage of him in the log ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C6sBWKy5qkyw0eQLO-IshTiQbUqj7EhYeoDhUZm047I/edit#gid=0 ) and I didn't see him on the recommended bruiser list either.
unique flame
he's mostly for def, i'm testing some things out and will make an updated siege def post soon
for offense you can use him in bruiser comps into things with buffs like this
tough rose
got it, makes sense. i'm always unsure what to bring into these sorts of buff heavy defenses.
tranquil junco
got it, makes sense. i'm always unsure what to bring into these sorts of buff he...
Lot of them you can just snipe out
tranquil junco
for offense you can use him in bruiser comps into things with buffs like this
This one you can kahli covenant shren for example
Or Odin Bastet Bethony type comps
tough rose
Seems like a lot of the solutions I see do involve some sort of sniping. one interesting solution i saw that I thought was pretty simple and good was vs woosa savannah kinki with leo tesarion chacha. But tesa is limited for me and gets used every single siege.
I do have elsharion built and he remains unused. I'm trying to find ways to utilize every tool in my kit, even the ones that shouldn't have been put in there in the first place
is there a single target resurge defense buffer that is not wind?
gentle condor
both of them are wind
tough rose
this is one i'd like some angles on, the immunity from louise makes me unsure exactly how to hit this. i was thinking tesa and triana both seem pretty good here (tanky triana) but i'm not sure what to do when louise is in the mix
unique flame
back in the day i just khmun imesety copper these
khmun can almost 1v2 louise perna
unique flame
if you have tanky wind (roid, triana, riley, feng, taranys, xing, etc) you can do rina 2 wind
tranquil junco
Khmun Kona cov works too
tough rose
Could I have some suggestions for vs this? I was thinking maybe TWL but that seems unsafe because of being chain silenced if nothing else. I considered garo draco kahli but triton has higher base speed and i'm not confident in my swift runes, even if I do swap (this siege I swapped runes). Same problem with lushening it, dova is slower. I was trying to think about how I could bruiser this and I think maybe something with veromos where I live one turn and then I think i'd be just fine. Nephtys could be on despair or even triton as well though so I'm concerned about that approach. So I have thought quite a bit, just not quite sure what I'm not considering that would be a decent safe option.
summer stone
Tetra seems strong here
tough rose
ahhhhh
carmine mason
windy
tough rose
tetra
carmine mason
triple rev
i feel like this def is low dmg its just fast
not even tripl rev windy thats a meme here
i think twl would be fine
i think windy double water with tetra +1 would be fine
tough rose
i'll start considering tetra more, i do have her, i never use her
summer stone
TWL should be fine even with chain silence
Because lulu heals and windy still gets turns
tough rose
yeah, i think i intimidated myself out of this one
summer stone
Also triton and kaki ai suck
you might not even be hit with the wombs combo
Not that that’s a thing to gamble on just a thing to notice
tough rose
also this is safe to lushen right? i'm worried sometimes about people running swift sav but does anyone actually do that?
i actually used kona earlier in siege otherwise i would use them here
tough rose
Not that that’s a thing to gamble on just a thing to notice
yeah i getcha.
summer stone
Swift sav is not really all that common
tough rose
this was where i used kona earlier. i don't think this was perfectly optimal either. kona on swift here and shoot rakan, then juno after
tough rose
why not?
summer stone
I don’t think he does
tough rose
but even if he doesn't i'm positive that kona + khmun on destroy wins
tough rose
i have him on destroy. i think he wins eventually, just slowly
i also put covenant on a little bit of ehp to be safe here
cursive canyonBOT
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
tough rose
this was what i used when i was hitting this defense
summer stone
Ah that should be fine
summer stone
If he had 40k ehp I could see their being a problem
tough rose
like i'm sure there's a world he can still die here
but i feel like it's safe enough and it's unlikely that juno breaks through khmun shield even if covenant died, right? i mean she can s2.. it could be despair destroy? but. khmun does have some of my best runes so i felt like it should work. and i was specifically considering helena's passive when i brought khmun (instead of a water DD/bruiser, of course cov is here but i feel like if it's just helena alive i've won), since i didn't want to suffer from -50% damage (more if -ele of course)
tranquil junco
this was where i used kona earlier. i don't think this was perfectly optimal eit...
You can just triple water this tbh
tough rose
i keep wanting to build suiki
drifting hearth
Suiki in long games is insane
Do you use suiki often on siege ent? and can u share statats pls (srry about using your thread Therion
tranquil junco
Do you use suiki often on siege ent? and can u share statats pls (srry about usi...
Not as much as I used to, he’s currently on an ao build
I’d run this in siege probably
25 s1 acc, -ele as relevant
drifting hearth
tyyyy!
tough rose
it's OK, good to have some reference points for everyone
tough rose
What should I be expecting from my first higher siege? How do you all determine who hits what?
full dragon
You just call what you want to hit
guilds will either have a no call or calling rule
unless you specify you can't hit something (out of counters, not fast enough to outspeed)
then guildie could step in, but most all the time you'll be doing either calling or no calling based on what you know you can hit.
tough rose
Hmm okay. I'm looking forward to this siege tournament actually so I can see what the meta defenses are and plan counters so I'm ready for next season. It's hard because I can't spectate higher sieges normally :D
I'm not even so sure what is meta right now
full dragon
Tournament is a bit more exciting past few season cause guilds actually save their maps for tourney
so you'll see a lot of new stuff
tough rose
For sure. I am not sure what is new and not new though at the same time. :D;;
full dragon
Usually if it's from recent balance patch
summer stone
are you in a tourny guild?
full dragon
but otherwise yeah some guilds might run older defenses you won't recognize
Clara, Theomars, Savannah was an older defense, but because Clara has SPD lead it made a comeback.
before that it was Carcano, Clara, Savannah, but that was much stronger then because current Windy didn't exist.
summer stone
which?
tough rose
probably won't make it to tourney but we'll see
drifting hearth
Did you found a g3 guild already Therion?
carmine mason
What should I be expecting from my first higher siege? How do you all determine ...
The biggest learning for me was having to more consistently hit the same defense multiple times
Like in g1 I just hit whatever and maybe a defense is east to beat once or twice but hitting it 3-4 times gets impossible
summer stone
For me it was that the random counters that I used in g1 wouldn’t work on the same defense in g3 lol
tough rose
Did you found a g3 guild already Therion?
nothing is 100% yet, I have a guild I'd like to join that I think would like me but i'm keeping my options open in case things don't work out
tough rose
The biggest learning for me was having to more consistently hit the same defense...
i'm ready i have 2 TWL 😎
tough rose
@full dragon i was chillin in bed last night rewatching old cloudtear video and i noted his cheongpung is only 90% cr. is this because you couldn't get 100% with the extra tankiness you're looking for?
i'm curious about whether i should eventually consider switching to a bit tankier
i'm galleon tiana cheongpung enthusiast
full dragon
Cheongpung for what I use him for is either going to get 100% CR after elemental advantage or even if it misses it's fine
All CP really need to do is pushback and fluff
Tiana is the real damage
Trying to get those stats +100% CR is too expensive and sometimes not worth it (elemental advantage is strong).
tough rose
theo molly sagar?
full dragon
ye, or anything you'd do Gall Tiana CP
tough rose
no i meant vs this you're missing 2 element advantage
that is where i have seen it the most 
full dragon
That's fine, CP just need to pushback and fluff there
you're not going to hit into triple water, so can't get everything
tough rose
🤔
full dragon
It used to be where CP needed a good amount of damage because you were usually doing CR slot 4 Tiana
full dragon
but since Tiana s2 is guaranteed crit, you can focus more on safety and invest high dmg into Tiana
cursive canyonBOT
therionshadow1? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
therionshadow1? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
full dragon
Violent Galleon and Cheongpung give you 2 safety nets
tough rose
cursive canyonBOT
therionshadow1? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
tough rose
yeah I recently switched over to violent on galleon
ok i give up i post stats sec
i'm curious if cdmg 85% is better considering how i don't feel like i have elemental advantage that often on siege here when i'm using him
full dragon
That's perfectly fine
trying to do min/max builds is much harder when you're starting out
gotta remember I've been farming for 3+ yrs
tough rose
i just don't want to get rune gapped with this op offense
full dragon
As long as you hit those base minimums, you're good
100% CR, 85% Acc
speed tuned
The team is essentially rune gapping
because it's a cleave
tough rose
that's true
full dragon
but how safe it is will depend on rune quality
since you already got the minimum out of the way, you know you won't lose cause you missed a crit or didn't have enough Acc
so then you move on to future upgrades
tough rose
right. that makes sense
that actually gives me great ideas
in terms of figuring out what those minimums are
if i get into a good guild i think i can find those out for more monsters by testing defenses
cursive canyonBOT
cloudtears? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
tough rose
ah right siege tourney
drifting hearth
nothing is 100% yet, I have a guild I'd like to join that I think would like me ...
Gl hope everything works out for you ^_
tough rose
ty friend
upper flint
@tough rose saw you mention that you always need multiple vigors
Am I doing something wrong if I use both jultan and eshit more than my vigor?
unique flame
yes
tough rose
Vigor is an amazing monster
tough rose
<@728158806588129281> saw you mention that you always need multiple vigors
Am I ...
He is excellent into so many defenses and a strong defense unit, at least at the level most of us are playing at. He's a very impressive bruiser unit with strong sustain, anticrit and very importantly def break + heal block.
He is also gifted like the other werewolves with a fantastic 115 base speed
In terms of eshir vs vigor - no def break/anticrit on eshir and element AI manipulation is forfeit when using eshir in most scenarios
Jultan is a totally different monster so i don't really have anything significant to comment on there
The only thing I'm not the biggest fan about vigor and this is sort of nit-picky but he does not come out of the box like most other 2a units do in the sense that he has part of his potential locked behind s3 being max skilled (15% harmful effect rate, -1 turn cooldown)
What do you guys like vs harmonia jubelle vigor by the way?
tranquil junco
What do you guys like vs harmonia jubelle vigor by the way?
Shushu Logan Triana
Both def breaks will focus shushu
Logan just runs vigor over
Then just make sure to scout out revenge on Jubelle
By touching him when Logan has immunity
After a while if Logan doesn’t get revenged just yolo him into Jubelle
tough rose
Shushu Logan Triana
Destroy triana 😇?
summer stone
destroy logan
tough rose
I thought that was the default for Logan. I just meant for the triana build as well.
tranquil junco
I thought that was the default for Logan. I just meant for the triana build as w...
Triana is whatever
She’s basically a living passive
You can honestly 2v3 there
But Triana makes it unlosable
tough rose
@drifting hearth watch cloudtears videos
he uses logan a lot
you can do that
or you can do bruiser with bigger damage
drifting hearth
Cloudtears on yt?
tranquil junco
wait cloud still uses Logan?
shell vapor
dont run 10 acc logan 
tranquil junco
This meta isn’t very Logan friendly
drifting hearth
hmhmhm
shell vapor
<:worry:949284539690262558> wait cloud still uses Logan?
in past videos
drifting hearth
I'm trying to decide which units to build and focus for now but I'm too dumb fk me
shell vapor
so like 2 seasons ago
drifting hearth
like idk the biggest issue for me on this game is deciding who to give best runes etc
shell vapor
I'm trying to decide which units to build and focus for now but I'm too dumb fk ...
u probably alr know this but read the beginner pvp thread
drifting hearth
u probably alr know this but read the beginner pvp thread
I've done it few times already tbh I think I'm just a lil scared about jumping into g3 siege
shell vapor
what ru in rn
drifting hearth
even tho I prob won't suck hard
shell vapor
just try it
drifting hearth
uhh like low g1 but I basically always 10-0 even when we're top200
unique flame
i don't think logan is that high priority
for the most part hraes does the same thing
there's a lot of generic wind monsters that you can build as as bruiser for siege
carmine mason
There’s also a ton of great 5* options too that are great on defense so you build for that too
summer stone
Momo 
shell vapor
momo is op 
tough rose
I want momo so bad
gaunt torrent
Hows momo built and used?
tough rose
What was your guys WL like when you started doing g3 siege?
tough rose
82 wins 5 losses you mean?
tranquil junco
What was your guys WL like when you started doing g3 siege?
Uh…. 80% I think
I started in g3 right as carcano got buffed and the meta got turned over
carmine mason
%
tough rose
I was just curious because I know a lot of guilds want like 98% and I think realistically speaking I can't see it being 90% during my first season. 80 seems very feasible.
full dragon
My season 2 wr was 80.91%
Actually therion
check this out
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wcU_tcpeBgeVCjbufQ55FI8yl5KXm4fhdw7sWha72x4/edit?usp=sharing
Might be some useful stuff here
tough rose
Will read over this
Tysm
I have seen one other time only jx has used an emote. Rare footage
full dragon
You winked at us
unique flame
it wasn't my intention for these newfangled apps to convert my smileys into emotes
tranquil junco
😉
full dragon
what does that mean
tranquil junco
it wasn't my intention for these newfangled apps to convert my smileys into emot...
😉
Too late
unique flame
tranquil junco
tranquil junco
Don’t see that often
shell vapor
tough rose
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wcU_tcpeBgeVCjbufQ55FI8yl5KXm4fhdw7sWha7...
Is this when you switched water twins to 205?
I have them on 205 now but it's not violent
cursive canyonBOT
therionshadow1? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
tough rose
I pretty much only use my water twins with water twins felleria vs mst so I put sabrina on double shield for a bit more safety
I think probably felleria should move before talia and sabrina actually
full dragon
Is this when you switched water twins to 205?
That's when I bumped them to 179 tick
tough rose
Ahhh.
full dragon
cause 286 twin won't lap at that point
cursive canyonBOT
Here are your builds.
provided by SWOP
tough rose
do you all reckon #2 here?
i only include speed tower
i figure the extra accuracy is worth something here
wait i'm on crack it's lala not chacha
unique flame
i like 3 because you're hitting the next spd tick
maybe you can find some combination
tranquil junco
i like 3 because you're hitting the next spd tick
Is 239 that relevant on chacha?
Genuine question
Whenever I use chacha I’m only really scared about something just blowing her up in one cycle
unique flame
this is lala
tranquil junco
wait i'm on crack it's lala not chacha
.
Oh I read this as it’s supposed to be a chacha set
tough rose
i like 3 because you're hitting the next spd tick
i am just concerned 150k is too squishy
full dragon
It is a bit, if you need Lala to take a hit, but that's still tied to your rune quality
My Vio/Rev 239 one is 261k for example
tough rose
My Vio/Rev 239 one is 261k for example
yeah i remember seeing your lala in one of your videos and wtfing super hard
i just want to make sure that my runes are appropriate enough to have the monsters using them be worth using
tough rose
I am just nervous my rune quality is gonna end up making me get rune gapped and losing :D;;
tranquil junco
Honestly
Unless you’re fighting top guilds that shouldn’t matter too much
If you play cleanly you can make up for a good bit of rune gap
tough rose
i'm also going to be trying harder i guess so it's not so bad
but i've gotten rune gapped in g1 before
i know lots of former people playing in tourney or what have you are just chilling in g1 though
tranquil junco
Biggest thing is
You’ll have to play cleaner on offenses
My account isn’t bad but it doesn’t hold up well against people in ssa/Mali especially
So the biggest way to overcome that is to use offenses that can account for variance + better runes
Covenant is an example
Idc who you are
If the unit doesn’t have inbuilt damage reduction, covenant kills it
tough rose
that was one of the problems i've had, sometimes my covenant does not 1 shot with praline, that's the most common gap i've had actually
& i do switch artis to +element when i do that
if it was fat cov i know nothing lives, but i've had problems there before
tranquil junco
Ah im referring to fat covenant
tough rose
yeah
tranquil junco
I’m going to be taking a break from top siege post tourney, so if you need any tips hmu
tough rose
i have one myself!
full dragon
I am just nervous my rune quality is gonna end up making me get rune gapped and ...
ye what Entrei mentioned, it's going to feel this way vs. specific top guilds. I think build stat allocate is where you can make up for this
like having unnecessary SPD, Acc, or RES for example will make you more vulnerable
and when specific builds that play around this shine the most, compared to one-for-all builds
I had certain Khmun and Lulu builds depending on the offense for example
tough rose
yeah, i'm trying to rune as efficiently as possible and remove any unnecessary extra stats
tough rose
I had certain Khmun and Lulu builds depending on the offense for example
could you give some examples for both lulu and khmun? i know when using tesa lead you can go to 59% res which is very strong
shell vapor
could you give some examples for both lulu and khmun? i know when using tesa lea...
an example for lulu is if ur taking into an acc lead like nana you can drop res for more bulkiness or move up a speed tick
drifting hearth
This thread is so fucking good/helpful thx everyone 🥹
tough rose
What are some of the defenses with monte these days that are strong?
summer stone
khmun/carc eshir monte
tough rose
khmun/carc eshir monte
Are people doing just vio will as tanky as possible with some accuracy?
summer stone
i dont have the units the run the defense so im not entirely sure
that is mostly what I have seen though
summer stone
i just saw SW and chill is running clara monte iunu
idk if its good or not but its being run in tourney
twin gate
Are people doing just vio will as tanky as possible with some accuracy?
This defense only really works imo if you rune gap hard for your whole team to outspeed while Eshir still on violent and going after monte I feel
Other variations have not had success for me even in G2
May just want to play around with tourney defs and see esp after finals when the best/most confusing defenses come out
tough rose
I know monte is popular right now. I am not sure what the other defenses are with him.
I'll keep my eyes open!
tranquil junco
I know monte is popular right now. I am not sure what the other defenses are wit...
The main thing with monte is
He makes consistent offenses much harder to make
Because if you can’t cleave it, he just randomly wins the game sometimes
tough rose
He makes consistent offenses much harder to make
So with Molly for example?
I don't have her. I'm not sure what would be considered uncleavable in terms of practicality on 4* bases
tough rose
Ty!
summer stone
I think its more making defenses that can only be cleaved
and then trapping a certain cleave
because if you try and bruiser into monte you can just kinda die
tranquil junco
Ok so it all stems from the fact monte s3 doesn’t obey normal targeting rules
And bc his s3 can put things below 30%
It messes with other units targeting rules, so fire units seeing a wind unit and a fire unit at 25% will sometimes hit the fire unit over the wind unit
Combined with the fact eshir especially does good damage without damage investment
And this def is usually full anticleave
Bc it naturally has good kill potential
Anti Julie, miri, etc
So you can’t cleave this blind safely
Bc it’s almost always just straight tank
And bc monte s3-2-1 is a ton of variance, most turn 2 offenses can randomly die to monte t1
tranquil junco
Ok so it all stems from the fact monte s3 doesn’t obey normal targeting rules
This meaning his s3 targets at random
tough rose
gotcha, that makes sense
tough rose
Any suggestions for left side monte artifacts?
tough rose
I realize now I think -water is actually pretty decent for this defense (Carc eshir monte)
Because I think I'd TWL it
tranquil junco
you 10000% do not twl this
tough rose
Carc eshir monte?
tough rose
I had tested vs it 6 times and won each time, I still don't 100% understand the threat of the defense
tranquil junco
unless youre confident in your lulu surviving eshir s3 at 25% hp
tranquil junco
I had tested vs it 6 times and won each time, I still don't 100% understand the ...
monte s3 rolling a 1
cursive canyonBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
tranquil junco
followed by eshir s3
tough rose
Do I have him built incorrectly or something?
tranquil junco
change right side to additionals for one
tough rose
I'm assuming you want the turn order to be Monte -> eshir -> carcano? Not monte -> carcano -> eshir?
tranquil junco
yes
anyways, the issue is a damage eshir can delete most things off of just monte s3 rolling low
and in a fight that can go very long
my -22 light lulu for example
doesnt tank the cr eshirs
tough rose
Got it.
tranquil junco
and monte rolls a 1 slightly below 1/3 of the time
tough rose
I think this is the best I have for it. I don't have anything higher for HP and no triple line adds
tranquil junco
this does about
2.5k/hit
and its missing an art
*2.5k is cloning the right side art
its one of those things where you can, but
damage eshirs in long games
means theres more time for monte s3-> eshir s3 to kill something
tough rose
I bumped him up 10% cr.
tranquil junco
not to mention monte s3-> vio s2
its not super uncommon for the first two units to take out a hwadam or whatever
thru a triana
tough rose
I think I could probably build an eshir like that on 286 tick with carcano leader if I did single defense
But alas. Maybe in gen1 :D
So if you don't TWL this, what would you take into it?
tranquil junco
cleaves mostly
lot of covenant offenses etc
double reviver comps are decent
back when i ran this i think i had eshir on
+32k hp +600 att +700 def, max cr and full additionals
anyways, twl against a def that has monte usually isnt the greatest idea
bc monte needs all of about 3 seconds to spiral out of control
ive seen a lot of losses where monte just goes
s3-2
eshir does eshir things
and two units are just dead
tough rose
i'm trying to think of it with covenant
khmun racuni covenant seems poor because you are fighting vs a stronger speed lead
maybe susano kona covenant?
but this seems difficult too because of the speed disadvantage
maybe gin dova covenant?
tough rose
So I was told before if I want to play in g3 siege and I'm looking to push close...
how do you all feel about blue artifacts in regards to this as well?
unique flame
who the fuck is telling you to get rid of blues
shell vapor
jx giga malding
tranquil junco
shell vapor
you should watch CTs video for an example of why blue runes can be OP
tough rose
i agree!!!
tranquil junco
Depends what blues imo
A lot of subs are so narrow you only keep good purples
See: atb on revive
tough rose
i believe in blue runes too!! i just was told this by a player i respect a lot so i start to doubt myself sometimes when that happens :D
tough rose
you should watch CTs video for an example of why blue runes can be OP
i did watch that! he actually made the video a bit after we had the discussion. awesome video.
shell vapor
if ur still building +/- ele depth definitely roll blues
tough rose
i actually think i got pretty lucky there
there's some i really need to improve desperately though
Like wind +dmg on water
shell vapor
if u have like -12 as ur best for one slot on an element then u should still be rolling that sub on that ele even if it’s blu
shell vapor
even if u have a triple id probably still roll, especially -ele
shell vapor
I need to farm more artis
tough rose
i've hardly farmed them honestly
shell vapor
I don’t enjoy it cause 1. U need to actually think about what to keep 2. U lose mana
tough rose
#2 i've had problems with as well
but i started being a bit stricter with rolling and it's not so bad
shell vapor
you gain more mana farming artis than runes
I roll a lot
Cause my depth is non existent
unique flame
you're rolling too many things that have no potential of being usable even for an absolute beginner
shell vapor
unique flame
like i have almost no quads for artis
tranquil junco
Mind
shell vapor
ye I feel like I roll a shit ton of purples
tranquil junco
Most die at +6
unique flame
because i sell them before they get the chance to quad
tranquil junco
shell vapor
ye it’s usually after +6 then it gets sold
tranquil junco
Yeah I personally +6 basically every purple
shell vapor
but the point is I’m rolling a ton of purples
unique flame
roll the artis with useful subs and not the ones with useless subs?
tranquil junco
Idk maybe it’s bc I spam sf
tough rose
a lot of the way i got this was from the #2 problem btw, my mana always, always went down because any time there was a potential upgrade or for tie if it's the second best for +/- i rolled it
i've actually been farming artifacts and just selling blues because i want to keep farming artifacts but it fucking kills my hands to do that
tranquil junco
But most artis have at least one sub id take a triple in
shell vapor
okay yeah I mostly farm sf and almost every purple I think man a triple would be good
unique flame
i mean i gain a lot of mana farming arts on my alt too
tough rose
i would end up rolling usually 4-6/10 on average from the drop list
unique flame
it's not just a depth thing
i think you guys are rolling too much shit
and yes i still roll tons of blues
shell vapor
unique flame
but there's plenty of purples that just get sold without rolling
unique flame
me too
shell vapor
Idk, I see an arti with 2 useless subs and +4 wind
Ye
tough rose
this was my solution though 
it's not ideal but at least i'm not avoiding farming artifacts anymore simply because it hurts like hell to do so
tranquil junco
Maybe the issue is I don’t run roll runes enough
tough rose
because i do want to push in siege and i know artifacts are super important
tough rose
Maybe the issue is I don’t run roll runes enough
i'm actually just now getting to a point where i'm upping my standards there now
before i'd roll a purple 1/3/4/5/6 with +4 spd that is purple with no regards for subs
now i'm doing it where it's sub/set sensitive and i've stopped rolling purple flats on 4/6
& i sell a lot of purple +4 spd on 1/3/5
so progress identifying that i guess? 
tranquil junco
Yeah that’s my issue
A lot of runes with 4 cr/spd or whatever and no other subs I don’t roll on shit sets
But I roll the equivalent on arts
tranquil junco
tough rose
furyn has the unlimited pass
tough rose
i want the infinite energy pass haha
carmine mason
Just 3 it shrug