#DeepSeek R1 1776 by Perplexity

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

late swift
frozen spruce
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😮

vale kraken
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will take a look

frozen spruce
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I don't see it on their API unless they simply replaced original R1 (on Sonar Reasoning and Sonar Reasoning Pro) with it

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at least docs don't mention a new model

vale kraken
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yeah not seeing it up yet

tough haven
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praying it's not uh

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5/10$ or some shit lmfao

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does Perplexity have a V3 version of this they support anywhere?

waxen wedge
vale kraken
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it might be on the API, but it's undocumented

vale kraken
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it's unclear what they've actually deployed, but if they've hotswapped their reasoning endpoints it's already available

velvet steeple
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China's problems don't affect your math. If you want to do porn, that's fine.

twin idol
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Validating Perplexity's jingoistic power play is embarrassing.
https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/9-billion-perplexity-ai-indian-ceo-s-green-card-struggle-goes-viral-after-elon-musk-backs-him-1.500025984
https://x.com/AravSrinivas/status/1884738658349003115?t=IlaRoSpwE9C00wa7fRQW7Q&s=19

Gulf News: Latest UAE news, Dubai news, Business, travel news, Dubai Gold rate, prayer time, cinema
$9 billion Perplexity AI Indian CEO’s Green Card struggle goes vira...

Techie’s selfie post resonates deeply with professionals grappling with visa anxieties

Based Whale (@AravSrinivas) on X

Project Veritas: Make DeepSeek R1 truth seeking

X ·
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Like I don't want to die on this hill, the CPC sucks, but as a Canadian the CPC has never made me feel personally threatened the way that the current US administration is doing, and this whole model is just Arav sucking up to them.

This has nothing to do with censorship whatsoever, and everything to do with leveraging political animosity for personal gain. Do with that information as you will

mental charm
twin idol
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Get off of X and call your mom, people are worried about you

tender marsh
torn flicker
# twin idol Like I don't want to die on this hill, the CPC sucks, but as a Canadian the CPC ...

as an American I completely agree. this tweet sums up my feelings on it:

https://x.com/MLStreetTalk/status/1892126837532184634

Machine Learning Street Talk (@MLStreetTalk) on X

@hardmaru @perplexity_ai I would rather have "Chinese censorship" and not piss DeepSeek off than create a strong disincentive for them to release more open-weights models in the future? It's not like anyone in the west is asking their LLM about anything Chinese-sensitive (we don't care!). From our

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signal pagoda
vale kraken
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We got confirmation, our Sonar Reasoning endpoint on our end points to that model

past snow
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Wait so sonar reasoning is now r1-1776? So it’s not trained on r1 anymore as it’s just r1 now. Wouldn’t this be the same as sonar reasoning pro?

vale kraken
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ah whoops apologies, you're right

past snow
vale kraken
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Yeah, they're super vague / unclear unforttunately

vale prism
vale prism
vale kraken
vale prism
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I derped and forgot about distills. "trained with R1" makes the difference; you are right.

vale kraken
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i would love if they actually were clear though.

vale prism
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It makes total sense. Weird that they released in OSS the pro and not the not pro tho.

vale kraken
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And yeah, I think their Sonar Reasoning Pro is their R1-1776 finetune of the full 671B R1

vale prism
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Maybe they are preparing a release of it; idk.

vale kraken
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model is up now

teal basalt
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Could we add R1 1776 to the thread name

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Awesome work 😄

pure ruin
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The truth is even US have its own censorship just like CHINA for sensitive topic that they have on their own culture, believe and country, In the end everyone has biases and thinking that one form of censorship is better than another is unfathomable to me.

Last time i check deepseek r1 actually don't have problem talking about topic that the west consider wrong or bad in much more neutral way, so yeah..

I think if you want to have clear view of CHINA use US/EUROPE model but if you want clear view of US/EUROPE then use CHINA model.

vale kraken
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DeepSeek R1 1776 by Perplexity

teal basalt
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Their direct API for r1-1776 returns the end </think> but never opens with <think>
Checked via curl, using temp 0.6, top_p 0.95.

misty plinth
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I haven’t used r1 much but is it normal for it to just admit that it’s from OpenAI?

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teal basalt
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yeah, very much so

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you can try R1 here for free and you'll see similar results

scarlet saddle
# pure ruin The truth is even US have its own censorship just like CHINA for sensitive topic...

what are these "sensitive" topics which US models are censored against? i'm yet to see an America model tell me that the Panama Canal is an "inalienable" part of the US, or that Hawaii has been US territory since "ancient times"... Mistral models never call France the "motherland" or talk about French citizens as "proud compatriots"...
i mean ofc all models have cultural / ideological biases and safety guardrails of some sort - but that isn't same as models adhering to government-imposed content restrictions on so-called 'sensitive' issues or regurgitating party propaganda verbatim..

scarlet saddle
# vale prism It's 100% R1 with a fine tune "china bad".

kinda.. though seems they just curated a dataset of question-answer pairs covering 300 ‘sensitive’ topics and fine tuned it to output the ‘factual’ answers, overriding the base model’s refusals or CCP-aligned responses. for sure this just swaps one bias for another in some cases (see their ‘Who is Xi Jinping’ example in the blog).. but more fundamentally, the model is just pattern-matching those 300 topics - like it's in no way truly ‘uncensored’. anything outside those topics–or with some adversarial prompting–and you’re back to the OG R1..

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anyway R1 is an excellent model (and OS yadayada) - I genuinely believe that. my issue is with Perplexity's increasingly shameless mission to position itself as the offical MAGA AI search engine, while making nonsense claims about their R1 FTs being "fully 'uncensored'".
my other gripe is with the those who insist that Western models are "just as censored", which is also nonsense... refusing to tell you how to make meth or self-harm, or providing a 'woke' answer, isn't the same as refusing to talk about a particular historical event, or providing objectively absurd and hyper-nationalistic responses (aka literal propaganda) when asked about a contentious international matter..
[sorry.. rant/s over]

boreal root
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This whole R1 1776 model is just so cringe its unreal. Its really stupid imo for a western company to go out of there way to piss off DeepSeek, a model which really is mostly uncensored already, certainly is for practical uses. I haven't had to deal with one single lecture from it yet.

What would the reaction be if Perplexity made LLama Zuckerborg Edition which hated Zuckerberg or something? Or if the CCP released LLama CCP edition? Its just pointless jingoist anti science crap.

dense temple
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the discussion section on ppx model are wild, people really dont like what ppx doing 🤣

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i hope they acknowledge the feedback from hf community, because this model just make it worse compare to the original model because they just make it the same as other model that we already have where its now have identical biases as them

scarlet saddle
scarlet saddle
boreal root
# scarlet saddle not sure we're on the same page here... obviously I'd rather a refusal / "sorry...

when does it give "absurd party propaganda" if you use the correct chat template? This has been a long standing issue I said many times when people were accusing DeepSeek of having a different model on their API vs other deployments, the chat template was wrong on a lot of deployments for a long time. DeepSeek recently confirmed what the correct template is. You can tell if its bugged if it outputs empty <think> section, its not supposed to to that.

kind juniper
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deepseek released an amazing and most of the time superior model, with open weights...

they knew the consequences of releasing the weights. they censor the model according to the cultural and political environment where they are from, just like any other model, in order to avoid domestic backslash. what people do with their weights is highly unlikely to piss DeepSeek off

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government X or Y or AI company W or Z would likely care if suddenly some fine-tuned AI model gave perfect instructions to create turbo Ebola

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I love DeepSeek the model and the team... This will not piss them off

teal basalt
boreal root
teal basalt
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Yeah this is the template abacus implements. 💙 is obviously a debug indicator for them lol

boreal root
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thats not a chat template mate

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just think of it as it is sensitive to how the model is deployed by the people serving the LLM. Its up to them to follow deepseek's model card recommendations, or ignore them.

teal basalt
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i think we're talking about similar things

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can you show me a chat template you're talking about?
because the only other place i am thinking of is the system prompt, but they say higher in the recommendations that you should avoid that

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the screenshot above just means they augment the user prompt each time

boreal root
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'<｜begin▁of▁sentence｜><｜User｜>hi<｜Assistant｜><think>\n'

still crow
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I would like to know how to make perplexity sonar model to show references/citations.... It only shows numbers like [1], nothing more, no urls. Thx.

bronze snow
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mhhh.... so apparently only english decensor?

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teal basalt
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aha, got it.

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broken flame
vale kraken
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FYI, slowly rolling out an update to how we handle thinking generations on ALL R1 models. They will now consistently think, and prefill will now consistenly work.

bronze snow
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I am getting complete nonsense and reasoning loops now, and highly degraded results in anything involving math, e.g. (same on API)

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vale kraken
bronze snow
hushed granite
bronze snow
hushed granite
bronze snow
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I am not using any front end. I collect responses directly into dbs

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the reasoning is off, and loops endlessly until gibberish on math segments

hushed granite
bronze snow
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I am also seeing broken format in code segments (again, both API with no frontend AND openrouter)

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bronze snow
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Tested R1 1776 (Perplexity post-trained to remove Chinese censorship):

Reasoning showed strong signs of degradation, leading to worse results in all tested areas.
Math, formatting and code related tasks were more strongly affected than pure Logic tasks.
Ironically, the only few Chinese censor tests I have (and have had for a long time) still produced 100% censored and propagandistic answers.

Whether the degradation is due to the post-training, or how the model is implemented, I do not know. But I do know that it isn't on R1 level.
As always, YMMV.

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bright parrot
boreal root
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or they just severely broke the model with their "fine-tune"

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what a waste of electricity srsly

scarlet saddle
# boreal root when does it give "absurd party propaganda" if you use the correct chat template...

perhaps not 'absurd', but it's party propaganda (and you;re kidding yourself if you think otherwise - or that there are comparable outputs reflective of government directives / propaganda narratives elicited by western models)
though yeah tbf, they've done a good job to just refuse when probing / sensistive questions are asked, both during in inference and, on the chat ui, with some secodary filter that kicks in if the output seems to discussing touchy topics

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actually... "doomed to fail".. yeah it's absurd

boreal root
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I haven't had a hardcore redditor r/geopolitics or r/neoliberal tier argument with it though, its not the kind of thing I find fun.

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I don't think you should be surprised that a Chinese LLM has different political stances on important topics for China to a western one, but I mean, in the screenshot you shared its arguing with you and it doesn't agree with you. It agrees with the Chinese stance. Isn't that exactly what you would expect?

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also btw it doesn't say "doomed to fail" in your screenshot

bronze snow
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more people confirming my findings (#1341484512487673977 message), e.g.:

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scarlet saddle
scarlet saddle
boreal root
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Or possibly system prompt stuff, the chat interface is known to be very censored just it usually says it can’t talk about it

timber drum
devout rain
devout rain
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I re-tested the model in lineage-bench, it took the first place this time (the previous mean score was 0.709, now it's 0.934!)

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frozen spruce
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very nice, I think I'll try this in aider as architect, with sonnet 3.5 or 3.7 as coder

bronze snow
# bronze snow Tested **R1 1776** (Perplexity post-trained to remove Chinese censorship): Reas...

Ran a full retest of R1 1776, after perplexity claims to have fixed their implementation.

  • Higher quality chain of thoughts, in particular in long context, fixed degradation
  • Thus, gains in all tested areas, compared to initial implementation
  • Still falls short when compared to DeepSeek-R1
  • Core model remains identical with same issues such as still censored Chinese areas and propaganda

Tldr; Recent fixes improved the thought chains and thus outcome measurably, yet doesn't quite reach R1 level, in my testing.
As always,** YMMV!**

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teal basalt
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if there's one thing going for it, their API is fast

teal basalt
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Funeral required