#Adjustments for Season 3

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

shy knot
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Idk why but when TFB decides to adjust something is always nerf/buff rain. We saw this with pretty much all characters starting from tropi. This happens because they have no clue of what they have to do to adjust them right, so they try all they can. Than when they finally hit the right nerf, they forget to revert the past random nerfs and the character remains ruined forever. This is the same in the opposite scenario with buffs, like with tawna. That said i ve a couple of things to mention hoping in season 3, the absolute last possibility to do something good with this game.

1- Add ranked mode , we ask this from july. The playerbase is small so I d accept a queque split only for ranked mode. Than you can add a good mode in the competitive queque just to add variation in pubs, without splitting the queques. For exabple if Labo was a testing ground, we can say that ntranced won, so you could add that mode to the competitive queque. So we’ll have both competitive and ntranced in the same queque. And ranked mode in another queque. Ranked mode has to have rules ofc, the ones we use for our private matches and tournaments from June are a good start: no same characters, all 3 roles has to be used once, no more than 2 same powers.

2-Tawna got an incredible buff rain from season 1. Health, damage, second time damage and hook precision. Just revert the second damage buff, all the rest is fine.

3-Roo was in a good spot in season 1, but tfb buffed his bomb damage for no reason but decreased fire rate in season 2, so it was somewhat acceptable. Than they buffed again fire rate but keeping also damage buff on bombs. This results in spammable bombs with too much damage. Revert at least half the damage buff on bombs. I’m saying half because the fire rate is high now , but not the same of season 1, so only half reverted could be fine.The best would have been keep saeson 1 Roo but TFB had to touch him for no reason and after some mess we re here now xD

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4-Cortex was too strong in season 1, so tfb nerfed his transformation time hard at start of season 2. Good move. Than nerf rain continues and got hit with both his cooldown increased. While I can be ok with piano cooldown increase. Hitting again Transformatiom after the previous hard nerf on duration is a little too much. Revert only this cooldown nerf on transfromation while keeping all the others.

5-Coco got nerf rained too. While wall cooldown nerf was required because it was auto win on objectives, idk why you touched also the spiral. Revert spiral nerf like it was before.

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6-Ngin is pretty good, it d just require horizzontal mobility to be a good alternative as a booster in high level play. You TFB created this standard by giving so much importance to relic control and by giving double relic perk to fast characters like coco and cortex. You can’t make other boosters slow. Even if you buff them to infinity, beeing slow will never make them useful like coco and cortex. The opposite is also true, if you nerf coco and cortex to infinity, their movement + double relics will still make them the right choice. Understand this TFB please, is vital for future boosters ideas. Or you change how all the game works, or you make boosters equally fast. Second option seems more reasonable xD The two prototypes of boosters you created at first need to be respected now or no one will use them in high level play. You created a very fast,defensive, high health, objective oriented one and a less fast but more mobile at 360 degrees, offensive, very fragile, blocker helper one. Gin and ripto both seems good alternatives to the second category, but lack the most important thing: mobility to be good alternatives to a cortex. Than we d need also a booster alternative to the first category, a coco alternative. In short, first priority is movement for boosters , you ve to make some more similar to coco horizzontal speed , some to cortex movement. Ngin is the perfect example, good booster but slow for beeing a booster. Just increase his speed horizontally. A good idea i red here time ago would be making blast off horizzontal when used in the air and keep it vertical when used from ground.

7- Ripto health buff is pretty good , but again, too slow. Slower than ngin and more ground based than ngin. Find a way to raise his horizzontal speed in some way. I d accept even just raising his normal walking speed if is the only way.

The game is not in a bad spot in balance now. After these 7 things you TFB can no longer touch things and focus only on new stuff.

shy knot
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Btw, first 2 points are priorities. Other 5 just good tweaks but I could live without them. No one will ever use other boosters beside coco cortex but ehi, if you as developers don’t understand what a booster needs is ok. Just first 2 points are priority.

mighty tinsel
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Good feedback

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Ripto still needs speed buff

sleek hamlet
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Less modes than S2 but still more modes than S1. The amount of modes that S2 had, put TFB in a bad spot for themselves.

untold token
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I agree with you about using Ranked as a single mode to avoid splitting lobbies. But these ranked lobbies need to be adjusted really well. There should be no encounters with ridiculous, unbalanced teams. For example, if I participated as one person, I should not be given against teams of 2, 3 or 4 people, or if I participated as 2 or 3 people, I should not be given against a super team of 4 people. Or if it is coming, it should be as close to our team as possible in terms of level. So it should be balanced. By the way, my opinions on participating in ranked lobbies still haven't changed, but I'm not going to discuss it here. I have nothing to argue with those who prefer to insult rather than argue. If the community wants it that way, so be it. But balance is really important here.

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You're right about Tawna. They unnecessarily increased her attacks for no reason. You can actually use Tawna as a blocker instead of a scorer. She even hits better than blockers, and some of his attacks have priority over the attacks of some blockers. How ridiculous isn't it? She is an extremely powerful character for a character whose class is scorer. If I remember correctly, you can kill a Cortex with full HP within 1 second with hook, uppercut and subsequent hits. Almost an oh-ko.

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They limited Roo's bombs and increased his damage, but they also disrupted his momentum. At that time, I was more unconscious about Roo and did not understand what they meant. Most Roo mains - even all of them - did not like this situation at all. They've undone some of that degradation. If you ask the Roo players, they will say that it is not as good as in the first season, but it is playable. Also, if I remember correctly, the last buff was only applied to the cannon and it was quite small. Frankly, I couldn't see any difference. If they revert all config in like season 1. i think it's acceptable. Also, you wrote the last buff as if it was only applied to Roo. All 3 blockers have been buffed. Tropy and Dingo. (I didn't knew Dingo's situtation but Tropy deserved) Brio did not receive its share of these buffs.

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Brio's buggy slime still continues and makes the game really annoying. This needs to be resolved. Also, Roo has 2 different bomb bugs. The first is the animation bug of the ghost bomb, which has been going on since the first season. You're completely open to attack when you have this awful bug. You cannot throw bombs, kicks, cannons or high jumps. You have to wait for the explosion animation of the bomb, which does not happen just by moving. The second bug is the invisible bomb. Your bomb physically exists, but you can't see it on your screen. You cannot see where you are throwing, where the bomb is going, and this nonsense continues until the match is over.

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I can't comment on Cortex, perhaps it has been weakened too much. But interestingly, despite these nerfs, almost everyone put Cortex at the top of the power rankings in the tier list made in the hub. He is a very weak character but at the same time a very strong character. Or I don't know if I misunderstood this tier list. Anyway.

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I am rewriting the things that will strengthen Ngin, as I have written before. Double or maybe even triple speed of shurikens. (cooldown remains the same). Thus, fast characters will not be able to escape shurikens by simply running. Remove delay on rocket explosion. Thus, Ngin will become better at attacking and even maneuvering. I also agree with the suggestion you wrote/quoted regarding horizontal movement. Horizontal Rocket explosion is actually a great suggestion. Not only will it make Ngin stronger, but it will also make him a more enjoyable character to play.

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Ripto is a poorly designed character from the beginning. So, even if you make this character the strongest character in the game, it is still very unpleasant to play. How can Ripto be made both a little stronger and a little more enjoyable? If the targeting of the lightning attack is made smoother (aiming movement is 40-60 fps, not 10 fps) and simpler (for example, a little aiming aid, just like in FPS games on consoles) and if you make the lightning area effective and affect a larger area, then Ripto will be really fun to play. More practical targeting means faster gameplay, more deadly Ripto.

shy knot
# untold token I agree with you about using Ranked as a single mode to avoid splitting lobbies....

About ranked Dont warry, you ll encounter player at your level. All stronger teams will only be findable by other stronger teams. Ranked works this way, we already discussed this. Btw I don’t know what you understood but with ranked you re forced to split queques. What I saied is that I d accept a queques split ONLY for ranked. So if they want add new pub modes, they can add them to the “competitive” queque. Like ntranced for example. But ranked will be a separate queque completely. You can’t mix pub and ranked in a single queque, is phisically impossible xD

For roo, I never spoke about cannon buff, That is ok. I’m speaking about the bomb damage big buff he got at start of season. They did that + limiting his fire rate. Than they increased fire rate again but left also the bomb damage buff of before. Now you can spam bombs and bombs deal tons of damage. You can’t spam like season 1, so what I’m asking is just a toned down of that damage, not a complete buff revert

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For ngin the character is strong enough like it is. Shurikens are very strong if you re good with him and as always balances are done around best possible use of a certain thing. If you buff shurikens ngin would be stupidly op in right hands. You d regret it day one. He just needs horizzontal movement

sterile fjord
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I genuinely think Cortex is in a good spot right now

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He’s high risk high reward

rapid locust
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Same.
Playing as him his animal transformation doesn't feel too slow.

sterile fjord
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He can output some good damage and is slippery as hell

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But he is also frail, so you have to be calculated

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Tawna, I also agree with

As I’ve said, she’s no risk high reward

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This can be easily attributed to the fact that she places you in constant stun during her combo, with no way to really to break out except hope an external source of knockback knocks you out

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I have mixed feelings on both N.Gin and Ripto

I do agree they need some way to improve their movement

rapid locust
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I think some Boosters are more equipped to gather Relics and others for Gem capturing, and that's ok tbh.
But Gem capturing is harder with slow speed too.

sterile fjord
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Yeah

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With Ripto, even though he needs a consistency buff, I’m concerned he’ll turn into Tawna 2.0 if he gets some sort of movement buff

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I’ve posted a video of me instantly killing a Tawna as Ripto

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My gripe is that Ripto’s kit isn’t fleshed out enough, because you will always want to use the Tsunami + Lightning combo

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Fireballs are notoriously awful

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As for N.Gin, he does need a way to increase horizontal speed, but I have voiced concerns about a horizontal dash in the air

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Notably if it has the same AoE knockback as it usually does

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N.Gin has a great strafing game, and is already somewhat pesky to hit

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If you give him an AoE knockback move that also increases horizontal speed, you’d make it almost impossible to hit a skilled N.Gin player, since they’ll use that to distance themselves if you get close

woeful junco
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What about buff Coco

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😔

sterile fjord
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no

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we are not reverting quantum wall

woeful junco
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I meant her damage

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Not about wall

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Her wall is fine rn. Although I cannot use it whenever I want

shy knot
shy knot
shy knot
# rapid locust I think some Boosters are more equipped to gather Relics and others for Gem capt...

The problem is that relic control is enourmously more important than gem control at high level. For this all meta team have double booster. And for this movement is number 1 priority for a good booster. Is just for how this game works. Gems are the less important thing in the game. Obviously not useless, you ve to pay attention to them. But relics control and key stations control, while having both good defense and score strategy, is literally all in a match.

woeful junco
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Im dead asf

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Also you don't have any priority tho

shy knot
woeful junco
rapid locust
# shy knot The problem is that relic control is enourmously more important than gem control...

Relic effectiveness is on a map by map basis though? And gems being able to boost your team makes it so you're able to score allot more, same as enemies, so when you win/loose those fights it would have a hell of allot more effect on the game then if you didn't have those boosts.
Defending Gems can also be applied to defending banks and relic stations as well, N. Gin and Cortex are pretty good at defending banks from what I've seen.
The devs clearly are designing these characters like this on purpose, and I don't think they should be changed purely because they're not effective in high level play since both high and low level play need to be accounted for when making changes.
And N Gin is pretty damn effective in low level play.

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Low level play effects how many people play more than high level does. The game's player numbers is already a problem.

shy knot
# rapid locust Relic effectiveness is on a map by map basis though? And gems being able to boos...

No, when making balance only highest level has to be accounted. Is like this in any online game. If you balance around low level in a fps for example, how much strong you d have to make a weapon to be able to kill ?! Or here cortex would need buffs because at low level he s ass because low level isn’t able to use him right. These are just 2 examples but is to give a idea why balancing around low level is just a logicless thing to do. And no online game, especially the most played world wide does that. Low level adapts to changes and if want become good they can always improve themselves.
Btw yes, Cortex and gin are in same booster category. The problem is that cortex has good horizzontal movement , ngin not. Gin is a good character, movement is his only need.
Than again, I care most just in point 1 and 2. All other 5 I can live even if they don’t do them. But only viable boosters will always be coco and cortex. I d like to use them all.

rapid locust
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Sorry, but why should only highest level play be accounted?
Not only is that the smallest category in people playing the game, but also this game is aimed at all ages, this includes kids.
This game is already having problems with player numbers, ignoring new/bad players would only expedite the issue and kill the game earlier.

cunning minnow
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Accounting for low level is how we get tawna the way she currently is

shy knot
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Is like this in any game

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All

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No one would balance a game basing on low level xD

rapid locust
shy knot
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More the online game is important more the developers care about a good balancing. And is always done basing on pro players

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And all ages play these games, is not a age related thing

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Is just that balance has to be done around best level because is balance xD

rapid locust
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I've heard literally no-one in game dev* say design is based primarily on pro players.
Unless the game is designed specifically for pro players.

sterile fjord
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Pretty sure catering to a small percentage of players is how you kill a game

rapid locust
sterile fjord
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You appease a small group while alienating the rest

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You usually nerf something because it’s overbearing, not because top players use it

shy knot
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But this is a basic thing

rapid locust
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"And is always done basing on pro players"
Sorry if I'm mishearing you, but this is the type of thing I'm responding to.
Cause based on this it sounds like you're saying balance is done mainly from pro play, which is what I was saying devs shouldn't do.

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In fact, allot of devs actually ignore high level players because doing so often leads to players leaving the game.

shy knot
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All online games, especially the most importants

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And played

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And majority of people who play them are casual, like 99% of playerbase.

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They just adapt to the changes

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Changes made basing on best players feedbacks and performances

rapid locust
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Well from what we've heard about how TFB is balancing this game, they're reading data based on wins/losses more than they are listening to our specific criticisms.
Which is also a bad solution tbh.

shy knot
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Their way of deciding balance is awful

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To address ntropi they needed like 5 patches. Some of us suggested the right nerf at june xD

rapid locust
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But yeah, I don't relate to what you're saying here sorry.
Not only does it not match up with most of what I've been hearing in the gaming industry, but it sounds like a bad idea to make changes based mainly on high level players when most people playing aren't, especially when the game desperately needs more players.

shy knot
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And in those games the difference between all playerbase and best players is abismally higher than this game, like <1% are pro players xD

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Because playerbase is abismally bigger

rapid locust
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Yeah sorry, most if not all what I've heard from game Devs is that they tend to not take high level players input too seriously because they tend to experience the game from just that one angle.
Most of the time input they give would make the game better for only them, and worse for everyone else.
That's what I've been hearing though. But in a situation like this where not even the devs seem to know how to balance, Idk if this can be solved at this point.

sterile fjord
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You are totally in the wrong for thinking that nerfs/buffs are based upon skilled players

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Nerfs / buffs are based upon how overbearing/underperforming things are

rapid locust
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In fact Smash Bros was notorious for ignoring high level play completely, even punishing them in some cases.
Which is bad for other reasons.
Yet high level players made it work anyway.

shy knot
sterile fjord
shy knot
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Guys if you don’t know these things I’m sorry but I can’t explain now to you

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That’s basic knowledge

sterile fjord
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No

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That’s opinion

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Buffs are given because both casuals and players struggle to get results

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Nerfs are given because they dominate a scene and usually force a lame style of counter play

shy knot
# sterile fjord Simple Both categories

Is logically impossible, both categories have different experience, but the only valid experience is the one of the pro when judging balance. The bad player has to improve xD

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For real guys ?!

sterile fjord
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“My experience is better than your experience”

rapid locust
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I've been following game design for years man.
And I'm sorry, but what you're saying goes against most game Devs I've listened to.

sterile fjord
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It’s quite literally the mindset of a smash bros player

shy knot
sterile fjord
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Yes

shy knot
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It doesn’t seems so

sterile fjord
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Alright, since you are so right, we should totally buff Brio

rapid locust
sterile fjord
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That’s the point

rapid locust
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Please Buff Dr Mario I'm begging you

shy knot
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I’m not saying ALL the content in a game has to be done for pro players xD

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Just game balance , but is just a logic thing to do to balance good a game for all

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I m glad balance is done around good players xD

sterile fjord
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Stats aren’t the only thing that’s important when making balance changes

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It’s the contrast to the rest of everything else that matters

shy knot
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I ve 30 years bro , I’m not a kid

sterile fjord
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dude

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this is peak extro behaviour

shy knot
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I’m saying you how these things work and you don’t listen xD I don’t know how to tell you anymore. Accept it or not is done this way

sterile fjord
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dude

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have you ever done game design?

shy knot
sterile fjord
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hm

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gee

shy knot
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You don’t even know that to balance a game you need some very experienced players to get their feedback from xD

sterile fjord
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I wonder what game design has to do with game balance?

shy knot
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How do you think a game like fortnite or cod is balanced ?! Around Mr fantastic 2001 ?!

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Or around the best players feedbacks ?!

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Are you serious bro ?!

sterile fjord
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You wonder why No Build exists?

shy knot
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Game balance is another thing

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Like weapons

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Game mechanics

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Is like if in rumble they do a public mode like the ones in labo. Who cares. Are modes to have fun. They don’t need to be perfectly balanced

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Characters instead ?!

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They need it

sterile fjord
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But you quite literally said that buffs/nerfs are based upon the suggestions of expert players

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Expert players had no issues with building, hell they even whined about mat limits

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But to regular players?

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There was no way to even fight them

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It was so domineering that No Build was implemented

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And would you look at that?
Player count went back up

shy knot
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Btw I don’t want full this topic with this so believe what you want to believe

rapid locust
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I'd leave it tbh.
I don't think the conversation's going anywhere.

sterile fjord
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Nah I love arguing

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This whole argument that changes should be based upon suggestions from ‘skilled players’ really falls apart quickly when you deconstruct it

rapid locust
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Eh, I don't tbh.
Was just making a suggestion though.

I just want the game to be better.

sterile fjord
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I agree

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But to make the game better, you listen to all types of players, not a minority of them

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Here’s a prime example

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Coco’s wall cooldown

rapid locust
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I think I've adapted to that change a bit.

sterile fjord
rapid locust
sterile fjord
shy knot
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This is a perfect example for me xD

sterile fjord
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Quite frankly, you didn’t see all the ‘high level players’ who were defending it

rapid locust
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Coco's wall also basically made N Brio a non issue in low level play.

shy knot
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If you base on low level players cortex would need other 5 nerfs right ?!

cunning minnow
shy knot
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If you base on all is like this

sterile fjord
sterile fjord
rapid locust
sterile fjord
cunning minnow
shy knot
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We try , but is far from other games where a proper attention to balance is guaranteed

rapid locust
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You guys recon wall would be better if it just didn't activate when you're in the air.
That does seem like it'd make it's positioning way less versatile so probs not.

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Seems like a hard fix.

rapid locust
sterile fjord
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Especially when you can have multiple of the same character

shy knot
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Before you could even be a lot less precise

rapid locust
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I've been warming up to the wall change tbh.

shy knot
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And we are speaking of controlling a relic station. The most game changing thing in a game

sterile fjord
shy knot
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Coco had that free basically

sterile fjord
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A lot of the ‘pro players’ were against a wall nerf

rapid locust
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I'm still unhappy with how so many Coco's in lower level play have resorted to ground pound spamming though.

shy knot
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Also the ones you say are against actually wanted a wall nerf , just less than a second

rapid locust
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Seemed like a split tbh.

shy knot
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So you are even say false things

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I also wanted a wall nerf less than what they did

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But at the end is not really bad what they did. Is fine

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But I’m against all the spiral nerf

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Absolutely against

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Not needed at all

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That is based on low level xD

sterile fjord
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This is like talking to a (quantum) wall

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How many times does it bear repeating

rapid locust
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Eh, the damage nerf's not even that bad.
I'd like it reverted but it doesn't seem like a massive deal.

woeful junco
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I mean cooldown on wall is just enough

sterile fjord
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I’ll be real

The actual issue with spiral is netcode

woeful junco
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Yeah very much

shy knot
# sterile fjord This is like talking to a (quantum) wall

Trust me but is the contrary. You just speak of things you don’t know. Like now that you told about other pros not wanting the wall nerf AT ALL. Is not true, all agreed on that. Is just that we calculated 0,5 seconds the best nerf. Just this. And trust me , I know them. We spoke about this also in the other server.
Luckily this increase doubled from what we suggested hasn’t ruined wall. But spiral nerf is absolutely not needed at all. This happens when you base on all. With their data xD

rapid locust
woeful junco
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You don't know how is coco spiral damage reduced by 20% was terrible

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😭

sterile fjord
woeful junco
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But he actually know

sterile fjord
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Really

How many people have you actually spoken with?

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Need I remind you that this server and your server is not reflective of all ‘pros’

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Hell

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Until we actually get stats

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None of us can claim to be ‘pros’

shy knot
shy knot
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I won with my team a payed tourney tho 🤣

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So maybe a little more than you you can agree I can know about this game

sterile fjord
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Yeah

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Considering that you still think Brio is the worst character in the game

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I doubt you know a ‘little more’ than me in the game

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Being the best at football in town doesn’t mean that you suddenly get to speak for the world

old kindle
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This whole channel is just text walls, wow.

shy knot
# sterile fjord Being the best at football in town doesn’t mean that you suddenly get to speak f...

You are hilarious for real xD
First of all tell me in all this conversation where I mentioned brio xD It isn’t even in my 7 points of the main thread. What does this mean ?! That for me is viable now, if course after his bugs will be fixed. You are so arrogant to want know better than me what I think about brio ?! You re absurd I swear.
Than, I never told to be the best, I just told you a fact to answer to your things. The fact is that our team won a paied tourney on this game, so maybe I know something more than you in this game. But no, you that don’t even know what balance is and how works for sure know more than me. 100%. Now I’m going because speaking with you is really pointless. And I also agreed with your first thing about knockback of blast off orizzontally, so we started right xD Goodnight.

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I d like to keep this as a adjustment thread please.

sterile fjord
# shy knot You are hilarious for real xD First of all tell me in all this conversation wher...

Yeah speaking with you is certainly pointless alright. Once again, arguing against a sanctimonious person.

For starters, you think that since you won a ‘paid tourney’ you magically know how character balancing works.
There is so much wrong in that statement so let’s begin:

  • You assume that since you won A competition, you somehow know more about how characters should work.

  • This ‘tourney’ you won is nameless. There is no way to know the skill level, the size of the brackets and the prestige. This could be a $100 best of 3 for all I know.

  • This is a team-based game, and as such, your team won the tournament, not necessarily you. Here, there is no way to evaluate your performance to uphold your claims.

Also, while you haven’t mentioned Brio in this thread, you have called him useless on multiple occasions outside of this thread, and still haven’t given an official confirmation on change of stance

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I’ve said it before

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Authority is null in the void of recognition

mild ledge
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yes, he knows more about character balancing than 99% of other people here

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🙂

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I was stupid enough to read all of this and yeah, I don't know what I expected to read here

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ispaniko makes good suggestions to improve the character balance and then casuals come in and tell him "NOOOO!!! YOU CAN'T BALANCE CHARACTERS AROUND HIGHER LEVEL PLAY!!!!", not realizing that every other game they play does it the same way except they don't realize it because they don't even get to talk with the top players

sterile fjord
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Oh it’s you

mild ledge
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let's play this through, since it seems to be hard to understand

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let's take a look at ... DINGODILE

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dingo is a great example

sterile fjord
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Yeah

mild ledge
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at lower levels of play, dingo is pathetic, he is slow, easy to hit and combo food for most characters

sterile fjord
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And at higher tiers of play, he is good

mild ledge
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I see a lot of really bad dingos in matchmaking every day who can't even hit people

sterile fjord
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I can say the same about Brio

mild ledge
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cause dingo takes some practice before you start making an impact

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let's say you make dingo more balanced around low level play, making him at least as effective as crash when used by an inexperienced player

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what does this mean for better players? dingo becomes ridiculously broken when used by at least a semi competent player

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ispaniko mentioned cortex as another example, which is also good

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cortex is super squishy and relies on having good movement as well as knowing how and when to use piano and transform adequately, if you use his moves wrong he is super bad and only really has his neutral shot going for him

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piano on it's own is not very good, if you just piano out of nowhere you're not gonna hit anyone

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also strafing is very useful for cortex and low level players won't do that

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so what do we do with cortex? buff him so that he is more effective in the hands of an inexperienced player?

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the idea that good players get to dictate the game balance sounds alienating because you are being told it directly, in other games it happens without you noticing it you just feel offended about not being part of the player group that has a right to talk about game balance but it's really no different in other games

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I don't have a link on hand right now, but I remember reading an interview with masahiro sakurai (the creator of smash) where he mentioned that after looking at online statistics he talks to japanese pro players before doing actual balance changes to characters

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I don't play shooters but as ispaniko said, it's no different there either

pulsar pumice
mild ledge
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the main issue with brio is that he relies on bounce crates to have a chance at winning an interaction and bounce crates is a waste in a team setting

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without bounce crates brio will never get to transform unless he is backed up by someone else

sterile fjord
pulsar pumice
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Building a team around N. Brio i just don't see working personally.

sterile fjord
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Not any more

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I think I might be the only Brio main here

mild ledge
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it is, brio requires building a team around him, all the decent brios I've met in matchmaking ran bounce crates, you can't win an interaction otherwise

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and even when you are transformed, cortex will still clown on you

sterile fjord
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The issue is thinking that you need transform

pulsar pumice
sterile fjord
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Sure

mild ledge
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not using transform is silly, brio does little damage otherwise

sterile fjord
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But that’s wrong

mild ledge
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it is, brio can only hit with flask in close range but what character allows brio to just do that?

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flask doesn't even stun

sterile fjord
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And that’s the issue

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Slime + melee + vertical flask

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Drops half of Crash’s health

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Not to mention constant pogoing using slimes thrown down

pulsar pumice
mild ledge
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if I am a scorer and I run guard or dump there's no way you can come close to me to even pull that off

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if I am a blocker I have superior fighting capabilities

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if I am a booster I am probably cortex and brio loses badly to cortex

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brio can't stop a crash or tawna that want to score, maybe a catbat but that's as far as it goes

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he also can't deal with dingo or ripper should they be blockers in his own base

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if a scorer runs guard even camping outside the bank and throwing slimes doesn't work

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and at the highest level, serious teams run at least 1 person with guard

pulsar pumice
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One day i was playing against a N. Brio who went inside the Garbage Dump at bank with Monster N. Brio before he was close i prepared a Super Slam that knocked him away.

mild ledge
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guard completely stops brio even when he runs bounce crates

pulsar pumice
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Outrunning N. Brio as Crash is no issue either.

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Or go around him in circles.

mild ledge
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brio can be an annoyance for the weaker characters like ripto or n. gin

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if they want to score

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an interaction somewhere in the middle of the map should never happen to begin with

pulsar pumice
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Netcode N. Brio can be annoying as well.

mild ledge
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brio can snatch gems away from ripto and n. gin

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brio is not useless, that's not the point

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but as a blocker? absolute trash

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the issue is that at higher levels of play you have little to room to venture outside of your class perk, you cannot just boost all the time as brio and you cannot block all the time as n. gin because you need those power up charges

sterile fjord
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Yeah

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You guys don’t Brio

pulsar pumice
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N. Brio has too much drawbacks for me and having to build a team around him is something i never want to force upon my team mates.

sterile fjord
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I’m just going to say it

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Brio has a high skill ceiling

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You guys are too fixated on getting a Transform

mild ledge
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without transform he is even more limited

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transform is his only option to deal some damage to a guard

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I am talking about brio as a blocker, booster is not sustainable

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what do you do with brio as a blocker when someone brings out a guard? nothing, you need help from your teammates to take it down

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in matchmaking you can stand at the edge of the bank and throw slimes, but that cheese doesn't work against good teams

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besides, brio has extremely poor endurance and gets killed in very few hits by most characters

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blockers should have high endurance like dingo because not dying is crucial

pulsar pumice
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There is also certain maps where N. Brio will not be able to work at all.

Relic stations who have a speed boost are helpful for N. Brio to get around quickly but again the problem is the team has to work with N. Brio to make it work.

It can quickly become 3vs4.

shy knot
mild ledge
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I made a long ass post about what you mentioned in the opening post a while ago on reddit

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my post is a bit more abstract but I basically went over this whole topic of most balance patches not addressing the real issues that characters have

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we keep getting these random changes that are basically pointless nerfs or pointless buffs until eventually after 10 tries the right change is made and then there is no compensation and the character is now either broken or bad

shy knot
mild ledge
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yeah because links are not allowed on the server

shy knot
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Oh okok xD

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Also from like a year something like that my telephone can’t open reddit. Idk why. It opens than I can’t like accept or refuse terms of conditions and can’t see post I was interested in or replies. I just gave up and never opened anymore some post on reddit

untold token
# shy knot About ranked Dont warry, you ll encounter player at your level. All stronger tea...

I understood just one Competitive Mode it's Ranked Competitive Mode. Now i understand there will be 2 mm modes then. But small player base will split again. I think this should be one mode and it should be Ranked Competitive Mode. Balanced game is everyone's right. But idk how it will be.

Yes, Roo's bomb power has been increased a little, maybe it can be reduced a little, but then personally, I would prefer it to be the Roo from season 1. Because the ones returned are not like the ones in season 1. Also, although Roo is a blocker, he is an insufficient character on his own. He cannot defend the entire base like a Dingodile. Everyone agrees that Roo from season 1 was the best.

When I said Ngin's shuriken speeds should increase, I meant that the damage and cooldown would remain the same. Actually, when you look at it, there is no buff. For example, if the target is Dingodile, nothing changes for Dingo. But for example, if the target is Coco or Cortex, there will be a more dangerous Ngin for them. At least they'll have to dodge the shurikens. I can also recommend this for Tropy's thether. It's very easy for TFB. All they do is play with the speed variable. Animation is the same, damage is the same, cooldown is the same. The solution to rocket lag is also simple. But TFB will have to work hard to make sure the rocket explodes left and right. I don't know if TFB will deal with this. If they does, we will witness a character being modified for the first time.

mild ledge
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ripper is actually a great example of what happens when balance changes for low level play are being made

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ripper was a solid character at high level in season 1 but was problematic at low level play because his bombs were extremely spammable and bad players were unable to deal with it, so the cooldown got increased and in turn their damage increased as well, this however, has made ripper significantly less effective overall especially with the momentum changes and has only punished good players by decreasing the amount of control you have over the character and making him deal much less damage on average

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well, his fire rate got increased again because even tfb realized it was a stupid change but for some reason the damage buff stayed so now we are sitting here with a character that is not designed very well

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tawna is another example, really her only problem was the hookshot having too much startup, bad players are unable to land the hookshot properly so tfb buffed her entire damage output so that even the 8 year old timmy without arms can eventually kill someone

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this is not working, we need changes that address real issues and real issues only present themselves when someone knows what he's doing

shy knot
fervent salmon
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the only top adjustement i wanna get is a true fix of everything in this game, how i'm supposed to convince friends to play this game when its trully broken ? it's so damn embarassing... Plus ranked mode with a game as broken as he is rn ... lul i'm not that fond for that

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ranked won't seduce me if nothing got fixed

woeful junco
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I just want buff Coco spiral damage

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😔

fervent salmon
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keep losing with coco lul maybe they'll buff her back if their "datas" show them coco is Broken in a bad way...

woeful junco
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I don't think so

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Power drain is more useless power and they did nothing for it

fervent salmon
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Coco they did something , not power drain lul

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so it's already different

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but srly u will need to wait for a spark of hope

barren sparrow
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I disagree with all of this

fervent salmon
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so u disagree to fix this game? man, what a shame

winged vault
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ispaniko is a very intelligent individual, and he won a money match!!!

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you must listen to him!!

pulsar pumice
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He also likes pizza so automatically cool 🍕

winged vault
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i was being satire

fervent salmon
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Srly u can think whatever about him but he’s right for few points but the only thing I would change first for s3 is a full fix patch , there’s no point to get ranked with a broken game like this and I’m still unsure it will happens anyway … less players in coming since players who don’t get a true ranked will simply leave the game once and for all

winged vault
fervent salmon
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yes he did

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i watched the tournament lmao

winged vault
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that automatically makes their opinions FACT.

untold token
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Halal opinions?

winged vault
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halal opinion

barren sparrow
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I think the only characters that need adjustment are femtropy and ripto

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because I think they are so weak that if you pick them you are basically fucking everyone else over

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ripto less so but femtropy is actualy garbage right now

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but I think before buffing and nerfing anyone I would rather have a better netcode so people can play the game normally without getting teleported into a death pit

shy knot
# winged vault that automatically makes their opinions FACT.

I just told in response to a guy, you should read the constest first. But ok, for sure the guy i discussed with for 200 messages or you have for sure better opinions and knowledge on the game. Also I didn’t saw a single comment on my points of the main post except from a few. You re not one of them.

shy knot