from memory the greenhouse wasn't exactly necessary bc i already repurposed the lab for that, but the "composter" was useful for splitting the chemical reactor conversion recipes load between that and the stock convert-o-tron
#KSRe
limber light
anyways the documentation is mostly done so next step is playtesting and maybe a little rebalancing
limber light
maybe half way to a 0.2.3 update, then i think the dating sim will take priority
it was the bare minimum and could use some expanding
limber light
not fully tested yet but seems to work
limber light
forgot to fix the engine stats UI in VAB
there u go nerds
content warning for professional programmers: im noob, it will hurt to read
limber light
clean your room ❌ tidy your code ✅
limber light
limber light
we have successfully managed to confine all of the messy code to the UI class
thats as good as its gonna get
limber light
release is on spacedock (not the default download)
if anyone still has very old save files with older versions of the mod, and wants to update to redux, best to run the save through the base game and version 0.31 of the mod to update the save before trying it on redux
limber light
next steps are probably some balancing to make more science pathways viable, maybe add some experiments, try to fix the localizations, and bug hunting
if anyone tries this and finds bugs plz let me know, i don't have a lot of time for testing
(as much as i want to now that it's playable with redux)
limber light
the saves were broken so here is a hotfix
limber light
the first couple of redux updates were a lot more broken than i thought
but im getting into more playtesting now so hopefully its a better experience for players
limber light
limber light
next step: mod the training center
if there is 1 thing in this game that is overdue for modding, its that flippin building
lusty laurel
if there is 1 thing in this game that is overdue for modding, its that flippin b...
what's wrong with it?
limber light
only useful for newbies
limber light
aiming to get most of the flight-related UI out of the kerbal life app and into other places where it belongs
so now the tracking station displays kerbal health as a colour
just need a bit more info probably in the diagnostic app for crew, which i might also use for the cabin pressurization simulation
limber light
might need to do some design work before the next update
got some bigger problems to resolve
clear harbor
👍
limber light
oh right, just check spacedock
this is my dev yap zone lol
if ur not using redux, u can use the older version in the changelog (0.31), im just only updating the mod for redux now
clear harbor
It is fine. I think i have the lastest version of redux as I like ksp 2 for its story element
Thx btw
limber light
im noob at color aesthetics but i think this is about right for a kerby at maximum damage
jovial pulsar
what type of damage is it supposed to be?
maybe if it's suffocation you could make it go to purple?
limber light
all types are combined - fatigue, atrophy, space exposure, psychological, etc
jovial pulsar
ah
actually, what about like gray? I feel like that would represent those things pretty well
limber light
hmm from green to grey, i might try it ye
jovial pulsar
the red just kinda feels like she's getting boiled alive lmao
limber light
lol its appropriate for space exposure at least
but its gotta be visible in the flight cams as well so players can see when the kerbs are in bad health
red stands out at least
fade to grey actually might work
limber light
this also gave me the idea of "kerbal ghosts" who haunt the space program
jovial pulsar
lmao you could make the kerbals in the VAB transparent
limber light
limber light
yeah u can just fire ppl from the start lol
maybe some of it modelled more on ksp2 development than nasa
theres also an unused agency called "hyper shovel" which seemed to be a reference to nate
so i added that one along with nate kerman
the cool thing is that these names seem to be setup in the variety system, so if u make nate kerman or felipe kerman they look like the devs
jovial pulsar
oh that's cool 😆
limber light
it makes modding so fun to draw out all these unfinished easter eggs
limber light
ok so there are two options for what a heavily damaged kerbal looks like
red vs grey
oh nvm it only lasts a day lol
limber light
ill get a proper repo at some point
jovial pulsar
ill get a proper repo at some point
btw if you really want to avoid signing up for one of the big corpo-owned code hosting services, you can try https://codeberg.org
at the very least it should be safer from AI bullshit than on GitHub
limber light
pog ty
limber light
looks like grey won
if u try it let me know how it goes in flight, i found it very subtle so not sure if its enough to see when the kerbals are being damaged
limber light
overall i think the majority of the mod scope has been established with the current version and the list of plans on the site, though often its only the first iteration and more work can be done to improve some areas. i think the last thing i'm looking at is the ksc facilities, with the overall goal of adding upgrades like in ksp, though the implementation may be different due to the new design of ksp2. but that seems like the next step, to get the first iteration of modded facility design added, so thats my current goal.
the ksp beta version of the mod is the starting point as i already tested a design, its ugly when you start removing buildings tho
having only 1 or 2 buildings is the best way to start for newer players since most of the buildings arent needed in the early game anyway, but in ksp2 there are a bunch of smaller buildings around the ksc that could maybe be repurposed or something like this, and provide a sense of progression in the ksc being under construction
limber light
also re the design, since this is new - obviously in ksp the player controls facility upgrades bc the player is the ksc administrator, but a multiplayer design separates the ksc which is already modelled as a separate agency. overall i want to make it something like the towns in patrician if anyone ever played that, where they are autonomous entities that grow on their own, and respond to player input a little.
but initially it will probably just be cosmetic and respond to tech advancement. its unclear whether the tech tree is shared in multiplayer but i think it would be.
(there were 2 different models for the tech tree in the ksp multiplayer mods, one shared it and one had individual tech trees)
but everything in this mod is intended to be multiplayer compatible, whether it is implemented or not doesn't matter, its just a design consideration for now
(and has been this way since the ksp beta)
limber light
wondering if its worth adding save file persistence for ksc camera location so ppl can keep their own
clear harbor
having only 1 or 2 buildings is the best way to start for newer players since mo...
When I was a new player I didn't really understand this upgrade logic.
limber light
wdym
the stock logic? i'm talking about first time players
as the mod is also designed for them
i guess its different with the stock pathway but the modded early game theres no need for tracking station or training center
basically the mod is creating a sort of tutorial integrated into the gameplay
limber light
r&d grew
but level 1 will just be the lowest tank and building
then +1 tank per tech tier
maybe tanks should be vab actually
they just reminded me of that forever alone building in ksp r&d
clear harbor
If you say so ig. I do like the new layout of the buildings though.
Btw. Could I get my hands on the source code ?
I just wanna see how you handle certain aspects of the game.
jovial pulsar
ill get a proper repo at some point
it's here
jovial pulsar
limber light
its hard to create that "unfinished starbase" aesthetic without making it look undeveloped
jovial pulsar
yeah, it's definitely hard when just working with the existing models, you'd have to go and model your own whole KSC
limber light
ya
not much options unfortunately, if u start removing roads its just water underneath lol
its good enough for first iteration anyway
looks way better than ksp
clear harbor
True
KSP 1 stock doesn't look good. You sort of need the mods nowadays. Atleast I do.
limber light
ye, its very old now
clear harbor
Is KSRe supposed to eat 11gb RAM
limber light
thats redux
limber light
idk, u could compare it without? there might be a memory leak or something
limber light
interesting
clear harbor
Latest windows updates have been rather sketchy
jovial pulsar
doubt that's related
are both of those in the same part of the game/in the same save?
clear harbor
Let me try it again. Just to make sure
clear harbor
are both of those in the same part of the game/in the same save?
Yes
New save ig
I realised I had some older mods installed
I think that was the problem
Sry for the confusion
limber light
ya this mod has no assets aside from the old spacewarp skin
make sure to clear out old mods as they dont work on redux
clear harbor
Yep. Just KSRe in the mods folder now
limber light
ok
clear harbor
Does KSP 2 in general eat up 12GB of ram ?
Cause either way it ends up being around 12GB of ram
limber light
whats ur total RAM
clear harbor
32GB why
limber light
yeah probably
jovial pulsar
pretty sure Unity optimizes RAM usage around the available amount
addressables get unloaded when more space is needed
clear harbor
You never know
limber light
if it was that badly coded it would just freeze the game
clear harbor
I made .bat scripts with kilobytes that eat up gigabytes in seconds
clear harbor
if it was that badly coded it would just freeze the game
Fair ig
limber light
the only file operations are reading from the mod directories
the data texts, images and the asset bundle
clear harbor
And injecting that data into ksp 2 no ?
limber light
well the data directory is just configs, u can edit them if u want
the images are used in the UI app, same for the asset bundle which is from spacewarp
3mb is very small, its mainly just a code mod
clear harbor
k
limber light
like the kerbal portraits are already in game, i didnt add them
clear harbor
How about the other stuff like buildings
limber light
there are no 3d models in the mod
wouldn't be 3mb if there were
buildings u just show/hide them with code, they're in the game
clear harbor
Oh. K. Never realised that...
limber light
could maybe just recolor the roads to green actually
or sandy color
probably look better than weird concrete shapes
limber light
increase the dustbowl levels
the long runway to nowhere poggers
u get 1 runway and a boat dock for them to ship in the VAB prefab
the average player gonna load into ksre and go "nope" and uninstall immediately
if i could retexture the concrete it would be alright
jovial pulsar
I mean if it's just a texture of the whole ground, you could just replace it with a generic grass texture
limber light
yeah it is
do u know how
im noob with art
it has a MeshFilter and MeshRenderer component
jovial pulsar
just grab a reference to the game object with the mesh, get its Renderer component, and on its material, set the relevant property value to your texture
you'll just need to figure out the shader property name in Unity Explorer or something
but usually it's just something like _MainTex
limber light
i think its MeshRenderer.material
jovial pulsar
yes
jovial pulsar
time to raise some cows to fart and burp you enough methane for the first flight
limber light
excellent idea
limber light
i mean the custom facility upgrades mod in ksp was called the barn kit lol
jovial pulsar
lol true
jovial pulsar
ngl that's barely more than just the tent they made Starhopper in 
limber light
haha yea there are 4 of those things where the vab is supposed to go
i tried to find out what other buildings the first starbase had but idk yet
there was definitely a low bay
jovial pulsar
yep, they got rid of that one in 2023 to make room for Starfactory
here you can see the low bay (triangular base in the center-bottom-right), mid-bay (center-left) and high bay (center-top), and the 3 tents in the center
~2022 Starbase
limber light
literally just construction
jovial pulsar
then there's Sanchez and Masseys sites
limber light
o wow
limber light
theres actually a starhopper-style tent on the boat dock
i think the first ksc should be built around the dock actually
since there are no roads, its more plausible to ship everything in
then u expand up to the swamp area
jovial pulsar
not a bad idea
limber light
just gotta duplicate the upper dock and plop some buildings on it
that tent will be the first vab
then all u need is like a ship prefab that occasionally moves to the dock area, much immersion
actual moving objects on kerbin
previously unheard of in a space simulation genre
limber light
this the first ksc now
the two garages are the vab and r&d
reminds me more of patrician 3 as well when u establish a town
gotta ship in everything by boat
clear harbor
Looks fire though
limber light
thx, should give a better sense of progression and add some variety too
limber light
tried to get this done for the anniversary but it took too long
limber light
most of the technical problems are solved i think, now its just adding in progression and testing
i'll probably keep the first iteration simple and based on tech unlocks to add new facilities
clear harbor
I wonder. Does it move ?
limber light
naw theres no animations in the game world
id like to add some basic ones but idk how yet, like a ship that sails into the dock regularly to deliver parts
actually it probably doesnt even need animations, just moving objects around
i'll look at it later
limber light
ye i got the big crane spinning
it should be pretty simple to add some basic movement
moving environment previously unheard of in the highly advanced space simulation genre
might have to learn the basics of unity at uni first
clear harbor
I'm currently learning the basics of C#. And I know basically nothing. So if I can do it. You can probably too
limber light
its fun
clear harbor
is there a nice interactive tutorial or is it just docs somewhere on forums
limber light
the tutorial is kinda integrated, u can just start playing
there's also a doc on the website
but the doc is mainly for beginners with not much experience in the game
any current players could just start in exploration mode and figure things out, as the pace is slower
clear harbor
any current players could just start in exploration mode and figure things out, ...
You were talking about KSP 2 or Unity ?
limber light
the game
tutorials are there if u need
but generally i recommend starting in exploration mode as it introduces all the new mechanics gradually, sandbox does it all at once and is only really for very experienced players
just got a few more things to fix and test and then the facility upgrades feature should be ready
messing around on the docks gave me some ideas for logistics simulation as well, as all the crane and shipping container models are already there
i love stuff like this bc all i have to do is add code to create mechanics
the only thing missing is a boat but i think that could be gotten from the asset store or something
so basically the boat shows up, unloads the containers and those contain the parts to build rockets
the ksc could be visually simulated as like a port town in this way, since there are no roads aroudn it
limber light
anyway basically i've hit the saturation point in adding "science mode" type gameplay
facility upgrades don't really suit it but with passive upgrades it will be the starting point to adding back in the "career mode" mechanics
i dont play sandbox games so that is always the goal for this project, to make a better campaign
of course most of the features in the mod aren't fully complete yet, but the process is to provide initial iterations across the full scope before finishing any one thing in particular
clear harbor
I don't really do sandboxes games other than Minecraft either but personally I found the entire career mode in ksp very complicated. I do like the exploration mode ksp 2 has so if possible maybe make ksre as a custom gamemode
limber light
well the ksp version of the mod remodelled some career stuff
but also redux is planning a new mode so this will adapt to that as well
its mainly the centrality of the funds currency, but with the ability to produce parts from colonies, this would be less important after a while
but if u found career complicated, u may prefer the sandbox mode for this mod as that's just the in-flight changes
there are quite a few different player types and playstyles with this game but i try to cater to everyone
if u jump into sandbox the tutorial is probably needed
idk how sandbox players even approach the game, or would initially engage with the mod, so if u have feedback on writing that better lmk
but basically, bc spaceflight is a lot more challenging, the progression is slower in the campaign, so by the time u get there, u will have encountered most of the mod changes
limber light
k the redux update snuck up on me, i'll update the mod for the new version soon
limber light
got everything else in, now i wanna make those cranes move properly lol
limber light
limber light
alrighty
will probably just do some smaller updates for a while with bugfixes and balancing
clear harbor
Nice
limber light
apparently i just forgot to not show the jetpack in the eva seat
hmm or there was some bug
works now 🤷
need 1 of these
limber light
muh boat too pink
limber light
ya it makes a kerbal feel small as well
for a low poly model without textures it doesn't look that bad
someone with the bare minimum of art skill could probably improve it further
maybe even replacing the white material with the road texture or something
and later i will make it sail in and out of port and players can try landing on a moving object for added challenge
(the end goal would be to simulate part imports in shipping containers, so when u order in parts the containers show up on the boat and are moved in by the cranes, all within my programming ability)
i think the big crane needs to go down on the docks tho
limber light
hmm what to work on next
haven't quite reached the threshold for more playtesting yet
i was just using sine curve motion for the cranes but maybe just staggered random bursts would be enough
at least adding something other than the boat might distract from its out-of-place appearance
of course making them pick up the containers would be better but just random movement will be enough for the first iteration 😛
actual movement from non-simulated objects
and some day we might get kerbals walking and driving around the ksc
hmm for the containers themselves id rather wait and see if i can build a full simulation and do them properly
where they have stuff inside them
and bring them to the upper docks, rather than move them back and forth
but idk how they would get up those ramps yet
maybe needs the big crane
limber light
lessons from making an overhaul mod: ppl will engage with the project in unexpected ways
some like to discuss it, some like to browse the code, many like to trash it without knowing anything about it, and a very small minority will actually play it
a dumb side project is almost essential to provide balance and maintain a sense of enjoyment in the development process
something completable
jovial pulsar
I think that with KSP2, it's even harder because barely anyone plays the game overall
limber light
yeah
its difficult getting feedback from players
i tried at uni but quickly realised that i cant be selling the base game to them
or promoting piracy lol
so the end result is basically saying "well, redux is cool for learning development by seeing a full unity game in the editor"
but its fine, u gotta reach a point where u dont need feedback i think
jovial pulsar
looking at our stats, the record number of downloads of Redux itself was beta 3 hotfix 1 which was latest version for 2 months, with 905 downloads
limber light
damn
lusty laurel
looking at our stats, the record number of downloads of Redux itself was beta 3 ...
that's pretty good
jovial pulsar
if you compare it with SpaceWarp, though
lusty laurel
that's pretty good
about the amount of people that still play ksp2
jovial pulsar
they do seem kinda weird
limber light
look at the latest two ksp2 mods
lusty laurel
yeaaah to be honest I have no idea who's downloading Ooh Shiny still
limber light
yeah
jovial pulsar
yeah, why would there be 20 people per day downloading stuff still
limber light
and u can even compare the graphs for similar mods, like the kesa mods
the patterns are almost exactly the same
or they were when i did it a year or two ago
at least with your 900 they are probably real
jovial pulsar
yeah, I think the GitHub API is more trustworthy
limber light
ya
theres just something going on with spacedock specifically i think
who knows what it is tho
maybe they count bots or something
jovial pulsar
yeah, it might just be automated stuff
limber light
i feel like the sooner u discard player counts as a metric the better dev is
base game is just too full of shenanigans anyway
jovial pulsar
absolutely, though in our case, it's at least somewhat important for our pitch to the publisher (if we can show there's enough interest, I'm sure it will help our chances)
limber light
well i think the real interest would be much higher
its more demonstrated by like the announce trailer views
base game just got a bad rep and that affects u
ppl aren't returning to it
they want that content but media and reputation have gotten in the way
a better test would be doing random playtests, idk how u organise that stuff
but take a bunch of ppl who never played the game and do like a detailed testing and feedback session
treat it like its a new game
then u have more reliable data on the viability of the project
alternatively, have a different reason for doing it. for most of my dev cycle, nobody at all played this
jovial pulsar
I mean don't me wrong, the main reason for doing this for us is just because this is something we want to be able to play
but it's sadly true that we can't do as much as we want without some support from the publisher (mainly the source project)
limber light
yeh
based on the sheer amount of interest in the base game i would remain hopeful
u could reach a point where u just go around to a whole bunch of publishers and pitch it like a new game
jovial pulsar
who knows, maybe at some point 😆
limber light
there is precedent for this type of thing with mods
or just get some popular content creator to cover it
(not the usual ones)
jovial pulsar
yeah I mean just look at the renaissance of Age of Empires II
that game came out in 1999, and then fans continued making mods for it and in 2013 Microsoft ended up hiring the team behind Forgotten Empires to make it an official expansion, and it ended up reviving the whole franchise to the point where they released remasters for all 3 of the older games (and Age of Mythology) and even released AoE4
limber light
o wow i didnt know about that
aoe was a favourite game on my first pc
thats a good example
jovial pulsar
or Black Mesa
limber light
there are many possibilities
ya, i think more along the lines of cs, dota and gta rp
mods which grew into large games
ppl would enjoy kerbal rp i think
and theres a huge advantage of hiring ppl who know the entire backend already
esp in a complex game like this
lusty laurel
did you know RPing kerbals on the forums is *also* against the rules?
forums are absolutely ridiculous in some cases
limber light
so much for roleplaying kerbal apollo lol geez
limber light
ksp forums almost as corrupt as the australian bureaucracy
reminds me too much of living here, im happy to avoid them completely
its awkward having everything hidden on discord these days
it used to be a lot better when i started modding in 2015
they were more lax and supportive of modders
now everything is entrenched and stale
limber light
gravity pong development helped me understand the unity physics system
may need more work to begin to unpack the angular velocity problem in ksp2
limber light
normally the boat would be removed until a higher quality model could be used, however studies suggest that some players require something to complain about
therefore the boat will stay to fill that role
low poly has arrived
your zero-graphical-experience modder had to start somewhere
limber light
wanted to playtest more but im out of time
cant rly talk about irl stuff but if there aren't any updates for a few months u can adopt the mod
at least this time i backed everything up online lol
australia is the worst country in the world
frozen night
can you not
limber light
i'm a refugee, my profile says as much, my experience is valid.
you have no idea what i've been through, and i'm not here to discuss it, or be silenced by people, i said this in relation to mod updates.
but if u had any opinions on the mod feel free to share them 🙂
i.e. "the boat sucks"
u can spam that to your hearts content
and its the sole reason i put the boat in there tbh 🙂
(i'm also not here to speak to anyone from this country, for my safety, and will block anyone who identifies themselves as such, so feel free to share that as well if you want)
limber light
still alive and finished uni assignment, back to modding
basically think i figured out how to do a big chunk of the mod for my uni assessment
so for now i'll figure out something else to do
limber light
so basically the ksp1 version of the mod had a parts inventory for your agency, where parts are bought and used and can then be recovered and refurbished to inventory for reuse
(a bit like the scrapyard mod but simpler)
for this iteration im planning to model the aquisition process further so that ordered parts arrive by boat
this is the mechanic im going to offload and create for my uni assessment, including the necessary funds reimplementation
limber light
current plan is to go back to the basics and add in the missing damage types like electrical, drag, generator wear
limber light
had some irl stuff recently but should be back to dev soon
several smaller updates are planned and the next one is sketched out
limber light
man i hate frontend stuff
just wanna write code but gotta write some trash tutorials
describing gameplay in the stupidest way possible in text is i think the worst part of design
crude pilot
More art than science, yeah.
And don't get me started on ranting about UI code 😆
jovial pulsar
just wanna write code but gotta write some trash tutorials
it might be worth doing more scripted tutorials like the existing ones in the training center
it will obviously be much more work but I think for an overhaul mod like this, it's the perfect medium to teach more complex concepts
limber light
yeah id much prefer it
it should be easy enough to just replace the localizations in the cadet orientation, i think that will be enough
i cant tell if the flag is skewed
jovial pulsar
yeah that's definitely supposed to be a circle
limber light
the unity update has just wrought havoc on my imgui designs
u could not have done better in making me want to switch to uitk
jovial pulsar
it's not much better on the UITK side, they made huge changes to the default theme that we have to inherit from, so I had to rewrite like half of our theme sheet to properly work
limber light
i like milestones
limber light
there are so many ways to organise milestone data
first launch from a cb, first landing, first SOI encounter, every biome and every discoverable
idk if first surface EVA works yet tho
like does anyone care the date when they discover each biome? idk
limber light
the first iteration of science mode additions are mostly done aside from adding science agencies to the app, which will initially provide something similar to the science arkive mod with tracking of which biomes have experiments done
tho not all features are complete, its just the first version of everything
from here im aiming to move onto the ksp career features
limber light
in terms of features the mod is approaching the 1.0 version for the current state of the base game
may have to spend more time balancing stuff now instead of just focusing purely on adding new stuff
a career-mode equivalent is planned but i'm not sure how to handle it yet, whether it should be separated from the exploration-mode-as-science-mode or not
but for science and sandbox modes the main things planned are just improvements and iterations on current systems
i'd mark the next update with a major version change if possible but not sure how to fit it into the current versioning
limber light
currently re-adding the repeatable experiments with diminishing returns like in ksp
also gonna add time decay so experiments can be repeated after a while
basically the full experiment data will be gone after a year
this only really makes sense with part deterioration
limber light
limber light
the annoying aspect of using int for science
decay rate changes based on timewarp rate
at least ksp used float and just displayed it as an int
limber light
there are so many weird UI issues with the new unity version
like why images with the same dimensions display at different sizes
ill figure it out eventually, for now some stuff is just skewed
limber light
didnt realise orbital survey had been updated for redux, so i've added support for it
limber light
trying to figure out how to integrate playtesting into my workflow has been surprisingly difficult
normally u just play a game, but for ur own designs u already know all the mechanics, so im not sure how to adapt my playstyle to this
the mod needs balance testing but idk how to approach it, so i just dont do it and continue coding
anyway gotta do some uni so will just be small updates for a while
limber light
hard to fit all the recipes and sources on there for some of them, but its better than nothing for now
absolute simplest resource model i could come up with
limber light
so the base game milestones are a good enough starting point even tho more could be added like ksp
but i'd like to add the kerbal element as well, im thinking about a "career" page next to the biography which tracks the individual achievements like first kerbal to walk on the mun etc
similar to the wayfarer wings mod but much simpler initially, and which forms the basis of the reputation currency
funds will be added last as they're the most complex
and im not just repeating the ksp design bc i never liked it, and want to adapt to the unique changes of ksp2
but at this stage the idea is to divide rep into notoriety, prestige and inter-agency standings
jovial pulsar
<@&1079082721281851422> sunnypunny is looking for testers for the overhaul mod KSRe (download: https://discord.com/channels/1078696971088433153/1287204534363492353, works on Redux)
limber light
thx
support will be provided, limited time offer
do u mind updating the news post title as well, i cant bc this is a new account
to whatever the current standards are
jovial pulsar
sure
tulip ruin
limber light
ksredux, i like it
limber light
looking at adding more details to the flight report UI in the next update, so u can see what happened more easily
vague mica
also how in the world do you set up propellants for the rapier
limber light
i used to have these loading screens but couldnt get them into redux update yet
the cryo tanks are conveniently 2.5x the volume of certain regular tanks
but cryo bipropellant is meant to be the most challenging to design for 🙂
also thx for the fuel tank issue, i'll look into it
overall tho, i definitely would not recommend jumping straight into sandbox
unless you're like a RO veteran or something like this, and already expect certain realistic changes
limber light
might have to improve the sandbox tutorial actually, for ppl who dont want to start in exploration mode
limber light
yea give me a little bit to fix the sandbox tutorials if u wanna start on this mode
i figured out how to do it
the exploration mode tutorials will just go beforehand and then the combined sandbox/exploration tutorials can start from like tech tier 2, with initial spaceflight
i jumped too far ahead with the first sandbox tute expecting ppl to start with a crew flight to orbit, thx for that feedback
( i never play this mode so its the hardest to design for)
limber light
0.36 travel log update
- included more details, events and science in flight report UI
- added per-vessel milestones with reduced science rewards
- smaller bugfixes
thx for all the feedback so far
limber light
gonna try to get more science data into the flight report including mid-flight, its a really useful UI
and get rid of the notifications
not even sure what the notification system is intended for, its kind of awkawrd
limber light
bit of a bug in the last update, i'll probably put out a fix tomorrow, had too much irl bs today
hybrid tartan
idk if I'm doing something wrong but the mod looks like it bricks stuff for me, after while game will just break in VAB so switching anywhere doesn't work and you can't leave, also, saves seem bricked when trying to load into them they're just forever loading on vessel creating
limber light
thx for the feedback, someone else seems to be having the same issue
can u give any more detail? is it sandbox mode
hybrid tartan
It's in exploration mode, I was using a new save and fresh installation of everything
is there a set version of redux I need or is latest fine?
limber light
yea latest is good, this is interesting
can u share the save file?
the extra info helps a lot in figuring this out, ty
hybrid tartan
alright, np I appreicate you wanting to help :)
just gonna see if new save immediately has same problem when trying to load back into it
limber light
ya this is a priority issue, i just didnt have enough detail from the other bug report
when it gets stuck on loading, is it also saying that its loading the radiator part?
hybrid tartan
I can see if I can find out, but don't remember a specific part mentioned last time unless it appears somewhere I'm not expecting
hybrid tartan
oki
limber light
or it was for the other report anyway
whatever info u can share will help, already this has widened the scope of possibilities
hybrid tartan
absolutely, anything I can do
btw wasn't sure, does pm_cache gotta be deleted each time or no? at least saw that mentioned for another mod
hybrid tartan
should I be running without orbital survey then?
limber light
u can definitely try, but the other report was without it
hybrid tartan
ah okay
limber light
i dont think its that mod causing this issue
hybrid tartan
rn save loading fine and I think I deleted saves from yesterday so I might just have to play for a while until issues show up
limber light
orbital survey does hang on the initial loading screen, thats all
hybrid tartan
ah
limber light
right yep, this issue is difficult to reproduce
hybrid tartan
all I know is once save is effected, it'll be impossible to load no matter how many times I try
limber light
yup, same as the other one
hybrid tartan
sry for deleting saves tho, I'll let you know as soon as it happens again
limber light
its cool yeh
will track it down eventually
the other one was loading a sandbox vessel in orbit
so idk, its almost entirely random
hybrid tartan
oh interesting, I've had it with vessel on planet, and also I believe when I never even had vessel in play but it was still getting stuck with the vessel message for some reason?
hybrid tartan
btw I think log was being spammed but unfortunately don't have it
something about a part mayb
limber light
o right
i have the log message from the other one but it didnt rly help
something to do with part definitions
hybrid tartan
hmm alright
limber light
ok useful to know, probably not then
hybrid tartan
uhhh so for some reason I've got 2 adminstrations appearing when outside KSC, I feel like I would have noticed if that happened before
hybrid tartan
np
okay I feel like I'm going crazy
things are like appearing/disappearing when loading up save or restarting game
so when I was playing yesterday I only had launchpad 1, and boat launch appearing, but now I see way more options that I presume were always supposed to be there
also adminstration is now gone from list, also I don't have access to research rover wheels but I swear I had rover wheels for the first mission?
wait I have all the buildings.. but I just started
limber light
hmm there must be a save issue somewhere
yea if u start exploration mode u only get the 2 launch sites initially, and no buildings at ksc
hybrid tartan
yee I just remembered that, so yeah something is up there
limber light
can u check for log errors on this one?
or just paste it
as for the rover wheels, they are in the second technology
hybrid tartan
I only have 2 techs showing up in Research and Development
that being shopping cart and living in a simulation
wonder if it could be same issue that's causing save corruption or whatevs
limber light
thats intended 🙂
its the tech discovery mechanic
as u gain more science, more techs appear
hybrid tartan
sry
limber light
naw this is great feedback
the mod is probably the most challenging for veterans, due to unexpected changes
(and actual bugs add to the confusion lol)
hybrid tartan
ah
it looks like the connections to each tech is broken too? like I got that requirement and other lines aren't connecting
oh and research isn't turning green when I research it.. it was working more yesterday for some reason
reinstalling the game completely wouldn't fix anything would it
limber light
ok can u send the log again lol
hybrid tartan
limber light
nah this will just be some code bugs
thx
feel free to keep posting bugs, this is all very helpful, im gonna start working through the logs
hybrid tartan
alrighty np
limber light
ok fixed issue with the save file and also the tech tree
and admin btn
let me just do some tests and ill put an update out shortly
hybrid tartan
wow that's great, ty :)
limber light
ya i think i got all these issues except the random freeze one
just gotta finish off some new features before update
hybrid tartan
oki no rush
hybrid tartan
I just want to say I really appreciate all your effort honestly, and look forward to trying the mod out fr, a lot of it looks really interesting to me.
For me, my biggest interest in KSP 2 over KSP 1 is the missions you go through, I like feeling like there's goals to go for rather than only having it be goals I set for myself, so looking forward to trying the changes in this :)
limber light
ya the mod is mainly for us campaign players since thats me as well lol
hybrid tartan
oh that's perfect then
limber light
ofc it affects sandbox mode as well but im always designing for exploration mode
hybrid tartan
yeye :)
limber light
but overall the campaign is more sandbox-style as there are lots of new ways to earn science
so u dont have to do the missions and experiments only, u can do milestones or just play it like sandbox and still progress
i also want to add some "contracts" similar to ksp1
hybrid tartan
mmm yee that would be cool
limber light
yeh they wont be the same bc i think most ppl found those too repetitive and grindy
at this stage im thinking about just like smaller mission trees for each non-player agency with partial randomization
hybrid tartan
mm interesting
kinda agree with repetitive, but also that was the only source of goals rlly in first game, so hopefully can be made into something better
hybrid tartan
mhm!
maybe it's just me but I find it a lil silly when a very specific orbit is requested in ksp 1, like just tell me to setup three satelites that connect to each other around x planet/moon rather than this specific orbit for some reason
I think random missions for recovery work better in terms of still having to reach specific destination, but having to actually rescue someone feels more rewarding I think
limber light
yeh the rescue missions should be easiest to add, and they have the added reward of a crew member
hybrid tartan
yeye
limber light
for the satellite ones idk whether to add them initially, they kinda need some better design
to make it more interesting
hybrid tartan
I agree
limber light
a lot of the ksp contracts just werent designed that well
if u have ideas let me know, im still designing that system
some stuff is easy to just straight up copy from ksp, other stuff needs more work first
limber light
cool! its been in dev for quite a while
the website has more details, future plans are in the overview
hybrid tartan
oo thanks
limber light
v 0.37: recover all vessels for this update
- separated bio fuel / liquid fuel propellants
- aligned propellants with engine archetypes
- displayed milestone science gains in flight report
- added settings to disable part + kerbal damage
- bugfixes
munix said methalox is important so i added it back in
vague mica
is there hydrolox and kerolox?
vague mica
@limber light where are my nodes bro
also I might have told you but the spawn height is WAYY TOO HIGH
I have to use the cheat menu to not die
hybrid tartan
nodes appear as you gain science
vague mica
except I'm softlocked now lol
no batteries or rover wheels
I could use the RCS things to get the 3 m/s contract but that's it
also the RCS things are bugging out
and appearing 3 times lol
additionally, resource selection does not apply across symmetry, so you have to change both sides individually
hybrid tartan
I think what I did was kerbal + sample science on surface, and in water from boat dock to get some nodes unlocked
but if that isn't enough idk
vague mica
yeah surface sample worked
I forget you can do that
why, yes, I am a member of the Doohickey Corporation, how could you tell?
hybrid tartan
lol
vague mica
separatrons keep exploding even though their plume isn't hitting anything lol
aight jeb what are we doin here
hybrid tartan
p neat rocket wheelchair lol
thought of suggestion for the mod: If test part contracts come back, have them be less annoying (not need so specific requirements maybe?) and have them be a source of upgrading grades faster maybe
vague mica
also maybe a 10% thrust boost after testing them or something
something something reliability testing and upgrades
hybrid tartan
oo ye
limber light
holy widescreen, what resolution is that
is there any more info on the loading issue? the log is helpful
was it flight scene or vab, and any idea of the vessel parts?
also game mode (sandbox or exploration)
hybrid tartan
it's just 2560x1440, but I cut that from a screenshot
lemme check other stuff
I presume the image would show if it's vab or not, but I can't tell
can also just send save if that helps
also exploration mode
limber light
ya if u can share save it helps a lot, thx
hybrid tartan
np, lmk if I'm missing any files
limber light
thx, only need the json
hybrid tartan
oh okay
hybrid tartan
damage isn't disabled
hybrid tartan
btw it may or may be unrelated because kerbal doing kerbal things, but game was stuttering before I chose to reload the game n then couldn't load back into save
like every 1-2 second stutter nothing related to anything happening in game, could be in vab, map view, no vehicles, etc
limber light
ok ya its the drogue
hybrid tartan
drogue chute?
limber light
yup
hybrid tartan
weird
limber light
thats the part causing the errors, just gotta figure out why
hybrid tartan
oki
limber light
it should be destroyed, as somehow it took over 100 damage from a fault
hybrid tartan
I've had random things happen where parachute just breaks from nothing
if that's related
limber light
yes, they can fail now
hybrid tartan
o right
part grade?
unrelated but I may suggest having something that says that a part failed cause I had it with wheels before and I didn't know what was happening for a good while
limber light
yeah im thinking about this atm as well
hybrid tartan
alrighty
limber light
there is the PAL upgrade but ppl wont understand it yet
hybrid tartan
oh for the ai?
limber light
so how to help the new players realise that parts will fail and explode
yeah, once u upgrade it gives notifications
limber light
yup, thats the other challenge
the whole idea is that we dont really understand what AI does lol
hybrid tartan
ah lol
limber light
like its fine if parts explode but u need to know that its not a bug
idk how to deal with that in game except to just say "expect random failures"
hybrid tartan
hmm yeah
would there be any way to see part grades in like vab? like right click part, if it showed grade it be easier to understand I think than having to go in the app and go to the company
limber light
good idea
hybrid tartan
:)
limber light
ur drogue grade is good tho
vague mica
what am I doin wrong here
.
vague mica
also it epxloded when I tried to launch it, did you implement overexpansion damage??
vague mica
prolly bc u didnt add the right fuels
the part description says it needs bio and ox
limber light
radical change to fuels
i recommend to just start with monopropellant
or srb
and yes stuff will just explode now
hybrid tartan
optionally part grades could be shown when you select a part to place, like when you hover over something on left side of VAB
limber light
yeh i like this idea of showing it in vab
didnt realise the game stores the entire flight history in the save file
i thought it was clearing it after recovery
limber light
oh the parachute is debris
i cant figure out why it hasnt exploded, but i can just edit it out of the save file so at least it loads
hybrid tartan
so something about debris not destroying when it should preventing it loading?
wonder if that was case other times it happened
limber light
actually it might not be destroyed yet
temp fix until i can figure it out
just back up the current one and replace it with that, should load
(all i did was find the vessel with the part that was throwing the error in the log and delete it)
but yea i definitely recommend at least the PAL 5000.050 "On Edge" tech
for both gameplay and debugging lol
it will tell u when the part is ruined in both notification and the flight report
as long as u have a probe core on the vessel
limber light
hmm
there was a lot of debris in the save
i think all around ksc?
it might be debris in general, not the chute
hybrid tartan
could be cause I had a couple accidents lol
vague mica
mr. sunny
hybrid tartan
like my main part of the rover would break, causing all the parts to come loose, but wouldn't let me revert so I just had to accept it and move on
though thought it would clear when I send a rover on the same place
vague mica
what did your craft look like to complete the 75 m/s car contract (also wasn't it 85 m/s in the last update lol)
because mine keeps wobbling out at 60 m/s
limber light
yeh its challenging, my designs are in the trailer
had to use the fixed wheels only
for debris u should be able to go into tracking station and wipe it
if u want i can just remove all debris from the save
i guess thats another thing that isnt explained, recovering debris is a good source of science now
maybe why i havent picked up these bugs, i always recover it for the science
hybrid tartan
what did your craft look like to complete the 75 m/s car contract (also wasn't i...
I just made my wheels wide apart and it was stable enough
limber light
rover wheels will struggle at those speeds lol
vague mica
sadness
hybrid tartan
maybe why i havent picked up these bugs, i always recover it for the science
like go to tracking station and recover?
limber light
damn u guys are making me want to play now
hybrid tartan
lol
limber light
i mean try ur own ideas, mine just worked is all
better to try something new and see what happens
i reckon u could hit 75ms with the rover wheel
hybrid tartan
I think it's possible as long it doesn't explode from part grade since I had that before
limber light
ya
well u can repair it btw
the whole point of the early game is actually trying to make u repair stuff
hybrid tartan
hard mid 50m/s but yee lol
but also presume missing something since it said I needed parts to repair
limber light
ya, add those to the crew part in the vab
hybrid tartan
ah gotcha
limber light
(thats in the tutorial)
hybrid tartan
mb
limber light
not at all
this is all super helpful feedback
its super hard for me to imagine how new players experience this
hybrid tartan
that's fair
limber light
EVA bits
the kerbal will automatically grab them when going on eva, then u can repair stuff
and after levelling up repairs u can research the PAL tech
but i think even a part that fails shouldnt blow up on the runway during the speed test, unless ur very unluck
the wheels dont take that much damage that quickly
unless they are wobbling out and causing impact damage
hybrid tartan
o weird had it a few times with them exploding randomly
limber light
ok
i just added log messaging to help figure that out
oooo ur right
okay yea the rover wheel will most likely explode
its crash tolerance is too low
hybrid tartan
ah
limber light
i did feel that the wheel damage was a bit high tho
ok, the first rover wheel has much lower impact tolerance
20m/s
the other wheels are much higher, i remember now
this wheel is not designed to go fast lol
something like that with boosters should be fine
i wont spoil the math but once u go faster than the impact tolerance, the wheels will be getting some proper damage
it follows that curve tho
limber light
there were like 20 pieces of debris
i cleared them all, that save should work for u now
also all your kerbals are in therapy :p
i definitely recommend recovering all the debris, there was a ton of science in there
limber light
i usually chase the parts around if something crashes and recover everything in flight view
the science rewards are worth it
hybrid tartan
oh okay, ty
btw am I supposed to get 10km altitude with only sepatrons or am I missing something?
limber light
hmm, probably tough
hybrid tartan
I suppose I should have gotten some of kinda of engine by now?
limber light
well there are many pathways into this part of the game
it may be quite daunting at first bc its very sandbox-style
and there are tons of techs
hybrid tartan
I guess I'm confused cause it says I require things I don't see on the list
like basic trussle says I need level 3 engineering but I'm not sure what that is?
limber light
ok, those are the new prerequisites
if u go into the agency app and navigate to the science submenu
for your agency
limber light
yeh, theres a lot of new stuff to figure out
hybrid tartan
sry but ty for the help
limber light
its cool i appreciate the input
u can probably begin to see how difficult to explain all of this stuff lol
hybrid tartan
yee
limber light
but at least once u discover it, the ui makes it clear enough i hope
i need an in-game tutorial sort of thing
hybrid tartan
I think so
I guess only issue I have rn is trying work out how exactly get get experience for each thing
like assembly I presume just making vehicles? Faults I would presume when things break, deterioration tho idk
limber light
yea so u can just play and keep checking the app to see how it progresses
thats the general idea
hybrid tartan
ah okay
I see there's notifs for rocket science, but maybe for which specific rocket science could help
but maybe that's already a thing if you upgrade the ai idk
limber light
i just added more details to the flight report
so even during flight, and also on recovery, u can expand the rocket science section
hybrid tartan
o nice
limber light
yeh so using that and the app should be enough? i didnt want to tell ppl how to play, its about figuring it out
these mechanics are very simple tho
assembly is just vessel construction
deterioration is bc parts take damage over time, like decay
(those are in the tutorial)
hybrid tartan
gotcha
yeah I think overtime it'll be more clear
maybe tutorial could just a hint of how one of them is leveled up, and be like you should see if you can figure out the others or something
if it isn't like that already anyways lol
limber light
yeh it kinda does
but u pretty much figured it out from the name
overall tho u always wanna recover everything, as damaged parts provide science on recovery
hybrid tartan
still confused how to recover it though, sry if it's stupid question
I thought it be tracking station like I recall ksp1 having it but doesn't seem like I got that rn
hybrid tartan
yee but only sometimes
like if my whole thing gets rekt I have no options to recover so are those parts just gonna be there?
limber light
its only if they survive
hybrid tartan
even if it's just a part? cause I've had parts fly off because base got destroyed but couldn't recover
hybrid tartan
so how do I recover those
limber light
i cant remember how exactly, i think its double click?
hybrid tartan
ah okay ty
limber light
if u can see them on the screen
hybrid tartan
I presume that's probably what's causing all the problems I have then lol
both progress wise and the save issue
limber light
yeah if u didnt recover anything!
thats wild
basically just double click the part that broke off to focus it and press green recover button at top
hybrid tartan
ah oki
limber light
or go to tracking station if u cant find the part in the game
it lists all the debris
hybrid tartan
is that an unlock?
limber light
that may have been blocking the revert or something as well
oh nah its not meant to be there at the start, but u can go via the esc menu
hybrid tartan
ah kk
limber light
im aiming to redesign the building flow, just havent gotten to it yet
the stock building navigation is so awkward
hybrid tartan
fr
limber light
your save looks pretty balanced tho, u discovered a lot of different science
u can also focus on one area to enhanve the specialization buff as well
hybrid tartan
what does the buff do?
limber light
gives more science
hybrid tartan
oh okay
hybrid tartan
yeah wondered what that was, gotcha
hybrid tartan
ty
btw I'm getting an error for repair bits, trying to repair wheels, but I have the repairbits on person so idk what the issue is
limber light
oh a log error?
hybrid tartan
idk if log but appears in same place when stuff like science is recieved or rocket science
limber light
oh the notification
hybrid tartan
yeye
limber light
ok so u def got repair bits on the kerbal?
hybrid tartan
yep
limber light
i think they show up in the top right
hybrid tartan
rep 0.01t presumably
limber light
yup
hybrid tartan
yeah says not enough resource when attempting repair
rovemax m1 wheel if it makes any difference
limber light
omg
okay i knew this was a bug but i couldnt find it until rn lol
i thought it was fixed
will be working next update sry
hybrid tartan
okay np
limber light
i lost the whole project and had to rebuild everything
hybrid tartan
oof
limber light
it just got lost in the rebuild somehow
i even remembered the bug but now for some reason its back
hybrid tartan
so is it like you fixed it but the code has been reverted?
limber light
yea maybe that happened by accident
hybrid tartan
ah kk
limber light
anyway its easy fix, just a typo lol
hybrid tartan
fair
hybrid tartan
trying think of there's any particular issues I've come across
but I think that's mainly it aside from debris thing rn
but debris is avoidable now I know anyways
limber light
yeh, i had a good look but cant figure it out yet
hybrid tartan
I'm happy to test more but just need time to progress further into game rlly
can't say I'm the best player lol
limber light
ur test is ideal tbh
hybrid tartan
alright
limber light
repairs are a core part of gameplay but not super essential in the beginning
hybrid tartan
I presume it's either for low grade parts or for long term trips
low grade parts being currently what I was testing, just some wheels with low grade to see if repairs gave some rocket science
hybrid tartan
awesome
and presumably that being rocket science, not the same as regular science?
limber light
both
hybrid tartan
oh okay