Decals smooth the land around them, as can be seen with the island runway in my 2.5x kerbolar system
#Shoemaker (Planet Modding)
frigid current
frigid current
Decals and discoverables arent one and the same
Decals can be used for discoverables but dont have to
fossil jetty
yeah I understand there's no connection between them
frigid current
You can put a discoverable at any point ... if you know how to convert lat/long/radius to x/y/z
fossil jetty
I was just curious why the island runway isn't one
analog moss
ok so KSC is a PQSSurfaceObject
hmmm this makes me think. are they going to replace the PQSSurfaceObject with the PQSDecal stuff?
PQSDecal seems a lot easier to use.
fossil jetty
it would make more sense to me for them to replace the current KSC with whatever colonies will be made of
but who knows
I think the issue would be that the buildings need to be interactible (like highlighting on hover and clicking on them) and I don't think that the decals can be?
analog moss
looks like decals can be anything?
the hover stuff has nothing to do with decals or PQSSurfaceObject
the building interaction is this stuff
and my half done tutorial on the mouse inspect + object browser actually uses that
fossil jetty
idk, I would still guess that there's probably a good reason why they use one thing for the KSC and a different one for discoverables
but I have no clue what it is, I haven't looked into any of it
frigid current
but I have no clue what it is, I haven't looked into any of it
I thought I gave the reasoning
Decals deform the surrounding terrain
analog moss
PQSSurfaceObject just deletes it it seems.
uses a pqs sphere to delete
sounds very inefficient
frigid current
I don't think the KSC deletes any terrain
if it did I wouldn't have the issues with the mountains on the runway
analog moss
oh wait im looking at the LOD code
just noticed something that might help with the collider issues RenderPlanetCollidersEnabled - graphics setting
frigid current
I have zero clue how to texture a planets surface atm
This looks promising
Part of the array
Hold these
0
1
2
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa
I don't know
This is so arcane
I don't understand what goes where
it has something to do with the shader, but what?
warm panther
What's happening?
ocean mountain
im not a shader programmer but i make blender shaders so i can try to help understand them
frigid current
If only I could decompile the shader
fossil jetty
yeaah the issue here is not even just understanding an existing shader
it's taking just the parameters of it and guessing what the shader does with them
because we have no way to get the code
analog moss
If only I could decompile the shader
frigid current
Unity version is too new
frigid current
Could attempt again ... ig
But ive tried like 4 times
Using tbe latest prerelease of asset ripper
analog moss
fossil jetty
ha first thing I saw when I downloaded the UABEA nightly was Avalonia
pretty sure that's the UI framework I suggested to use for the CKAN UI rewrite
analog moss
would be nice if ckan had a better ui, that way people would stop using badly made mod managers like toucan.
fossil jetty
I don't know if I've ever seen anyone actually use it
analog moss
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/174x1w8/comment/k5cgh36/?utm_source=sh...
tried this and no. its very broken.
lavish pike
Maybe try the assets from an earlier version before the unity upgrade?
frigid current
But we know that they have been doing stuff with the assets
I mean the shaders
Im pretty sure
fossil jetty
and we were trying basically since 0.1.0 to decompile shaders, with no luck
not these specific ones, but we did try
frigid current
Yeah exporting shaders breaks when set to decompile
frigid current
https://github.com/mafaca/UtinyRipper/issues/249
This is 3 years old and doesn't support the modern asset bundle format
fossil jetty
I think it's about this comment, mostly: https://github.com/mafaca/UtinyRipper/issues/249#issuecomment-1189616806
frigid current
Yeah
I'll be honest, without investing a lot of effort, there is no way to decompile these shaders
fossil jetty
but, the mentioned fork just says it's been merged into the main repo
frigid current
If we could disassemble it into DX assembly, compile that into bytecode, maybe we could use this
frigid current
Gonna try one thing to see if I can get one texture to work
No
of course that didn't work
Also apparently the island runway ... is a texture on the shader itself
Okay, I can ignore all these parameters ... for now
as they are not set at all on vall
Okay, so my working theory is that these values are related to the index into the texture array
values between -1 and 4 when the texture array is 5 items long
between 0 and 12 when its 13 items long
And the enable params are always zero/one
warm panther
how do they map, RGBA, XYZW..
frigid current
I have no clue
And I cant have a clue unless I have the shader code
And I am 100% sure that IG wont just give us that
frigid current
Not really
warm panther
Could be related to Vegetation, like in SampleRgbaChannelExcludeMaskJob.Execute?
frigid current
Dont think so
frigid current
So the PQS shader is a compute shader ... obviously
I have one idea, but I need to rip a lot of textures to test it
I can try recreating a planet from scratch, lets say ... vall
copying all it's parameters
and modifying it from there
but I have no clue how I would actually understand what stuff does
I'm going to inspect vall's biome map to see what values it actually uses
but that's likely going to be a tomorrow thing
warm panther
but that's likely going to be a tomorrow thing
reasonable
frigid current
The issue is, that all this work may be subject to change come the next update or whatever
or when they switch to using CBT
frigid current
Yeahh
fossil jetty
not sure this helps in any way, but it's the best I could find on the current PQS system: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/205930-developer-insights-12-–-planet-tech/
warm panther
What happened when you zeroed all of them?
frigid current
Nothing
warm panther
I don't have the code right now, but if it's a compute shader, shouldn't there be atleast one ComputeShader.Dispatch call, and maybe the ComputeBuffer instances where these parameters are packed to send them to the shader? Or am I getting it all wrong? (I didn't dig down - just sayin' )
As a funny side note, I implemented once a QuadSphere subdivision LOD system in Unreal, and using compute shader in unreals is creepy; zero docs
frigid current
I know what the parameters are naemd
and what types they are
just literally no other information is exposed to me
like how they interact with eachother
warm panther
would you mind sharing where you found them?
frigid current
Just look at the shaders in the dev branch of KSP2UT
there are dummy shaders for both local and scaled space of planets
warm panther
Have you already seen the KSP.Rendering.Planets.PQSJobUtil.HeightSample function and the related HeightLayerSample? Seems like the same shader calculations but in a burst job
warm panther
Ahhhn, ok
frigid current
What I dont understand is the ground texturing
frigid current
Yes, the local shader
warm panther
just a couple of parameters
frigid current
Only a few
twin anvil
@frigid current Have you taken a look at how Planety did it? I'm pretty sure the textures worked
fossil jetty
Did they? I kinda thought that was the one thing that wasn't working
twin anvil
I thought it was atmo that wasn't?
frigid current
The exact same issue
And ive exhausted my list of possibilities for figuring it out
twin anvil
I guess you guys already tried begging the devs for help?
fossil jetty
yep...
frigid current
I wouldn't say begging, but yes
twin anvil
If you can give me a rundown of what exactly needs figuring out and what you're tried, I might be able to take a look at it... another pair of eyes never hurts ig
frigid current
What the 700 or so odd parameters to the CelestialBody/Local shader do
Okay not 700
Closer to somewhere between 100 and 200 iirc
twin anvil
I'm guessing you already tried just going and tweaking them and seeing what changes?
frigid current
So its a problem of just sheer amount of information
frigid current
I'm guessing you already tried just going and tweaking them and seeing what chan...
To a slight degree, not sure how I would see the effects of any individual parameter though
I also dont know the invariants of the system as they relate to eachother
twin anvil
Is all your progress on the github rn?
frigid current
I can put my progress on github qhen I get home
twin anvil
alr
frigid current
Im currently getting ready to bowl
I bowl with a group of like 11 others
Well family friends
twin anvil
Sounds nice
twin anvil
@frigid current Any idea which file the shader in question is located? I can try decompiling it, but I need to find it
fossil jetty
fyi Cheese was able to decompile it using RenderDoc
but I'm pretty sure that's done at runtime
nothing else worked
twin anvil
Like decompile decompile, or just disassemble?
fossil jetty
well, disassemble
I don't think that any way to decompile HLSL from bytecode to actual code exists
from research over the months, it seems like the only way to really do it is manually
twin anvil
Tried this?
I assume the result will be a bit like C decompilation though
This seems a lot more promising https://github.com/AndresTraks/HlslDecompiler
Cheese once you're home, please try it, I can't compile it on my Linux box and I don't want to create a Windows VM just for this
frigid current
Got these same errors when using a similar tool in renderdoc
fossil jetty
and the second one says that the file has unknown format
is it possible that Unity now compiles by default with DXC instead of FXC?
since the tool seems to only work for FXC-compiled shaders
(to be fair I have no clue what I'm saying lol)
I just know that when using the same input file for it, it just says Unknown file format! Finished.
twin anvil
@fossil jetty Did you try changing the file extension?
fossil jetty
the error is thrown when the first 4 bytes of the file don't contain one of the expected signatures
so extension shouldn't have any impact
twin anvil
You sure it verifies by the magic number?
Because it's pretty common in windows programs to do it by extension IIRC
fossil jetty
yep
fossil jetty
I can't deal with dark mode, it makes everything hard to read for me
twin anvil
Do you even need to fill all the parameters of a shader?
Because we do have the names
Also did you guys manage to somehow examine what the stock planets have there in the parameters?
frigid current
I can but it barely gives me any info
At least none that i understand
I even examined the stock biome map
twin anvil
I can but it barely gives me any info
Through renderdoc or?
frigid current
Through renderdoc or?
Through thunderkit
It tells me what the parameters are it just doesnt help me
There is just too much
twin anvil
I think the approach is just a lot of examining
frigid current
Im not even sure if its worth it to put that much time into examining something that will change
twin anvil
Do we know how soon?
fossil jetty
I would assume this year, but no clue when specifically
frigid current
^
twin anvil
I mean, you tried the Earth from scratch, right?
Maybe modifying Kerbin would be the way to go?
frigid current
Maybe?
Its still a lot of effort
twin anvil
When roughly will you be able to upload the stuff to github? I'll take a look and see what I can do
frigid current
Somewhere between 1 and 4 hours
We do 3 hours of bowling and then go somewhere else sometimes
warm panther
Are the shaders parameters baked in or are they computed at runtime, atleast partially?
twin anvil
Wdym?
The parameters are compiled in, the inputs to the parameters are put there at runtime
fossil jetty
whether they're all set directly on the planet prefab or set at runtime
yeah I'm pretty sure the questions was about the values of the params
twin anvil
I think it's the prefab, no?
frigid current
Kerbin_pqs
Vall_pqs
Eve_pqs
Laythe_pqs
Those all have references to the material
Its called the local space material
warm panther
whether they're all set directly on the planet prefab or set at runtime
yeah that
twin anvil
@frigid current poke
frigid current
Just got outta bed, gonna eat breakfast then push it
twin anvil
alr
frigid current
@twin anvil its not github, but this is the assets folder, copy the files in this into assets after installing Addressables, Thunderkit, and KSP2UnityTools (from the dev branch), make sure to copy over while unity is closed though
twin anvil
alr
twin anvil
Btw, who was the one who managed to create a modding environment on Linux?
fossil jetty
no clue
but for the most part, you should just need .NET 8 SDK and any editor
I think I remember some people having issues with ThunderKit on Linux though
fossil jetty
but for the most part, you should just need .NET 8 SDK and any editor
for reference the latest template versions contain GH workflows for building mods on an Ubuntu runner
so it should also work when building locally on Linux
you might just need PowerShell and Mono installed for some stuff
twin anvil
Scratch my message from 14:42, thunderkit doesn't wanna import
On the Native unity version anyways
And on Wine Unity hub is borked
twin anvil
Kerbin_pqs
How did you open those?
Also I'm getting a fuckton of errors from KSP2 Unity tools
frigid current
Show
fossil jetty
Also I'm getting a fuckton of errors from KSP2 Unity tools
you need KSP2 imported first
fossil jetty
well
it's saying it can't update the imported game DLL
so something went wrong with the import
twin anvil
Now it magically* seems to work
*I checked auto reference on the game DLL
fossil jetty
Unity in Wine sounds like a pain in the ass lol
twin anvil
I needed to rebuild the TK settings
@frigid current How did you open the Kerbin/Jool/etc PQS?
fossil jetty
probably in ThunderKit's addressables browser
twin anvil
Collections: list is empty
twin anvil
probably in ThunderKit's addressables browser
twin anvil
That's why I have an empty project with just thunderkit
An empty project has that issue as well
twin anvil
@frigid current What was the thing that wasn't working? Local space?
fossil jetty
yes
twin anvil
CelestialBodyAssetLoader seems to be responsible for loading that - did you look into that script?
frigid current
It's specifically biome texturing with the local space shader
I have no idea how that works
twin anvil
Biome texturing, okay
twin anvil
I have no idea how that works
What exact piece of information is missing?
frigid current
How indexes for the texture array for ground textures are computed
twin anvil
@frigid current Could you do me a favour? I need screenshots of how the PQS for Kerbin looks - ideally in asset form though (although probably in DMs considering server rules)
frigid current
When I'm not busy, sure
twin anvil
Or @fossil jetty if you're available and not going to sleep right now
fossil jetty
sure thing
twin anvil
@frigid current Do you do some special ritual to get Earth to show up?
finite fable
I cannot believe I had issues with Flight Plan/K2D2 when using this + 2.5X mod /s
Had a ton of fun just now, thanks contributors
frigid current
Hmm, I have some ideas, but I know not how helpful they would be
A real time shader editor in game would be immensely useful tho
fossil jetty
A real time shader editor in game would be immensely useful tho
didn't Lux make something like that?
I didn't look into it too much though
oak tapir
what part exactly are you guys stuck on?
Could anyone explain to my what the purpose of the planet shader is for? Is it like parallax?
fossil jetty
well, yes, and no
it's for all of the rendering of the planet's surface when you're close to it
like, it does literally everything
fossil jetty
not very helpful 😆
ocean mountain
Could anyone explain to my what the purpose of the planet shader is for? Is it l...
it basically renders the planet, without it, the planet cannot be rendered properly
so its pretty essential
oak tapir
I’m trying to set up kerbin in unity so it’s exactly like how it is in the game I’m hoping that when I change the properties of the shader you will be able to see them real time in the editor would this work?
frigid current
I’m trying to set up kerbin in unity so it’s exactly like how it is in the game ...
Nope :/
We dont have the shaders code for that
oak tapir
any chance someone could quickly run over how to change the shader properties for a CB and then mod it into the game?
fossil jetty
you can easily change values at runtime with Reflektor or Unity Explorer
if you want to write some more complex code for it, then it's better to make a full mod project with https://github.com/SpaceWarpDev/SpaceWarp.Template
warm panther
I would add that we are talking about more than one hundred parameters so even fiddling with them would hardly help you
I mean, it’s necessary, but the hard part is making sense of them
fossil jetty
?
frigid current
Uhhh
I never actually tested at 10x
sweet terrace
Hey, I was looking at getting back into this, and it seems this is the current place where research on planet creation is happening. What developments have been made in the time I was gone? I see the PQS shader has been completely rewritten since I last played, and it can't be read by AssetStudio anymore, does anyone have information on it?
fossil jetty
The newer versions of Unity don't work with the outdated original AssetStudio, but you can grab this fork: https://github.com/aelurum/AssetStudio
Other than that, I don't think anyone here got much further than you originally did, we all got stuck on the local space shader
We did try to ask the devs for help but so far we didn't get any info, which makes sense considering they'll probably be rewriting a lot of this stuff
sweet terrace
Any idea which file that shader is in?
fossil jetty
I can check
I just load the full game folder in AS
ah actually sorry, seems like even the fork doesn't read shader files, in that case, you can use https://github.com/AssetRipper/AssetRipper
fossil jetty
and the file should be sharedshaders_assets_all.bundle
tranquil flume
I just finished reading this whole thread from top to bottom.
Legendary work @frigid current et all 😄 Thanks for blazing the trail.
Scaled space shader was pretty straightforward.
Localspace shader I can't even see where it exactly gets mesh data from.
In RenderDoc it looks like it gets empty verts in the vert shader and I'm guessing it looks up the actual data in the compute buffer or something.
analog moss
thats a lot of reading.
tranquil flume
Near the ground on kerbin, CelestialBody_Local runs 4 times in the local cam
- First with water color integrated. I suspect this is for when too far away to render the ocean mesh
- Again without the water color. This clobbers the previous draw. I suspect this is when rendering the ocean surface so that the area underneath looks like sand instead of more water.
- Three more times, once for each planet decal.
It does some more work in the scaled space camera, one step looks like it generates some decal mask on an R8.
fossil jetty
not sure if you've seen this talk yet, but it's relatively informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvytgzvqlgQ
tranquil flume
Oh, I thought I saw that but I guess I remembered an older one.
fossil jetty
there's also one for KSP1 from like 2013
twin anvil
@sweet terrace Might be worth posting your findings here
If not anything else, it's gonna be interesting to read through
sweet terrace
I'm working on Planety again, and will post there.