Stellar Plasma-Assisted Rocket Kinetics (SPARK) | KSP2 Redux | Page 7

chilly minnow Sep 13, 2023, 3:10 AM

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damn it looks very good in game already

narrow gate Sep 13, 2023, 3:12 AM

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Yeah! I think with what you've shown me I should be able to fool around with this and maybe get it even nicer. At the very least it's working!

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Not bad at all!

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I'm gonna call it a night on this success and then mess with it some more tomorrow.

chilly minnow Sep 13, 2023, 3:12 AM

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Amazing! soudns goods

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remember that the key for plumes is always to layer them

narrow gate Sep 13, 2023, 3:13 AM

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When are you planning to release an update to LFO? I'll need that to be able to release this mod!

narrow gate Sep 13, 2023, 3:13 AM

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chilly minnow remember that the key for plumes is always to layer them

I can have more than one?

chilly minnow Sep 13, 2023, 3:13 AM

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so ie, you want the start brighter, you could just add a new layer, with a bigger end falloff, and play with the colors a bit

narrow gate Sep 13, 2023, 3:13 AM

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Interesting!

chilly minnow Sep 13, 2023, 3:13 AM

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narrow gate I can have more than one?

as many as you want!

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and also in diffrent hierarchys for convenience!

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ie:

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and it keeps the hierarchy when in game too

narrow gate Sep 13, 2023, 3:14 AM

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That gives me some ideas!

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I think very soon here the game will have a nice set of new ion engines! I need to work on my localization text. IT's really boring and repetitive... It needs to be better for when I release these

narrow gate Sep 13, 2023, 11:47 AM

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chilly minnow as many as you want!

Fooling around a bit... I noticed the plume seemed brightest in the middle so I moved it up to where it's "origin" is at the engine exhaust and then basically killed the first falloff so that only the second one exists. This might be closer, or part of the picture.

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narrow gate Sep 16, 2023, 7:01 PM

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@chilly minnow, I think I'm pretty close to being able to release this mod with an initial set of engines. To do that, I think there may need to be an update to LFO? I know you've sent me test versions to use with my plumes. Are you planning to release a new version of LFO so that my multi-channel nested hall thruster plumes can work?

narrow gate Sep 17, 2023, 12:55 AM

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@chilly minnow Why am I not getting a plume at the launch pad at night when the Dawn engine is? I pretty much modeled my parameters off that one, and you can tell that the engines are working since the emissions light up. Granted, even with three bug honking nukes I can't run all the engines without depleting the EC, but still, in the time they can run, why no plume?

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FYI, I'm getting these errors in the log when I play around with my engines in the VAB.

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[Info : Unity Log] [System] Property [isVisible] already found in context! [Error :Lux's Flames and Ornaments] SPT100 Plume was not created! Exception: System.Collections.Generic.KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary. at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) [0x0001e] in <695d1cc93cca45069c528c15c9fdd749>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.LFO.GetShader (System.String name) [0x00005] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.Settings.ShaderConfig.ToMaterial () [0x00001] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.Settings.PlumeConfig.GetMaterial () [0x00001] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.Settings.LFOConfig.InstantiatePlume (System.String partName, UnityEngine.GameObject& prefab) [0x0023f] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
[Info : Unity Log] [System] Property [isVisible] already found in context!
`

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[Error :Lux's Flames and Ornaments] Ion was not created! Exception: System.Collections.Generic.KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary. at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary2[TKey,TValue].get_Item (TKey key) [0x0001e] in <695d1cc93cca45069c528c15c9fdd749>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.LFO.GetShader (System.String name) [0x00005] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.Settings.ShaderConfig.ToMaterial () [0x00001] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.Settings.PlumeConfig.GetMaterial () [0x00001] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
at LuxsFlamesAndOrnaments.Settings.LFOConfig.InstantiatePlume (System.String partName, UnityEngine.GameObject& prefab) [0x0023f] in <85a6c179a2e74efbbadb0902c63eeeee>:0
[Info : Unity Log] [System] Property [isVisible] already found in context!
`

chilly minnow Sep 17, 2023, 1:10 AM

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narrow gate <@135118540377161728> Why am I not getting a plume at the launch pad at night wh...

because the throttle value is the calculated throttle

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so ie

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if you have a ISP of 3000 on vaccum and 300 on ASL

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it will only return a .1 throttle

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instead of 1

narrow gate Sep 17, 2023, 1:21 AM

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chilly minnow instead of 1

But the Dawn has the same curve. They all drop to 100 Isp at sea level, but it gets a pretty plume! It may be a pretty useless plume, but it's pretty nonetheless.

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So, it's just that Dawn isn't using LFO and so may not use this curve the same way, or does it even have anything to do with LFO at all?

chilly minnow Sep 17, 2023, 1:26 AM

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thats the isp curve

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not the actual shader animation curve

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you can see those on asset studio btw

narrow gate Sep 17, 2023, 3:38 PM

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chilly minnow not the actual shader animation curve

Yep. The Atmo curve controls Isp, and the emission curve works fine. When I look in the modeled plume at the shader I don't see a shader animation curve. Is there something in here that I could change so that my engines "behave" more like the stock engine? If a player sets one on a test stand at the launch pad and runs it at night it would be nice if it works just like the stock Dawn engine does.

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Also, do I need for an updated LFO to be released in order to players to have plumes on my engines? I think this is so, but if not then I'm pretty much ready to release this with the engines I've got.

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Speaking of such things, though... There are some more engines I'm going to want to add where I supspect this project will need to leave the realm of "codeless mods"

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I'm aiming to generally cover the same bases as Near Future Propulsion, which will mean variable Isp/Thrust for VASIMR and Magnetoplasmadynamic engines. Also, some of his allowed configurable fuels (Argon vs. Xenon). That would be nice to do, but is not as important to me in the shorter run as variable Isp/Thrust.

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This may also mean I need to make a Near Future Electrical equivalent just to make powering some of these possible, but that's a tomorrow problem.

chilly minnow Sep 17, 2023, 9:14 PM

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narrow gate Also, do I need for an updated LFO to be released in order to players to have pl...

the main problem im facing rn is that for some odd reason

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i can see the plumes in my game

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and im not sure whats causing this

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i might release a version just with the profiled version since thats working just fine

narrow gate Sep 17, 2023, 10:43 PM

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chilly minnow i can see the plumes in my game

You mean you can't see the plumes? Is that limited to not being able to see the new profiled plumes, or is it more widespread than that?

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It makes me wonder, maybe I should resend my my mod just in case it's something goofy from my end on that.

chilly minnow Sep 17, 2023, 10:51 PM

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pls do!

narrow gate Sep 17, 2023, 10:53 PM

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Here's the latest version I'm working with. All the plumes work in my game provided you're in space

📎 SPARK_2023.09.17.zip

narrow gate Sep 19, 2023, 11:22 PM

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chilly minnow pls do!

Did you have any luck?

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 11:44 AM

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📎 LFO.zip

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 11:44 AM

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chilly minnow pls do!

If it's any help diagnosing this, I've sent what I've got in my LFO install too

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 12:27 PM

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testing rn, i've been a bit busy the last couple of days, sorry AsukaDead

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 12:48 PM

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hmmm

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 4:55 PM

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chilly minnow hmmm

Hmmm... Why is it working at all? It looks like you've got monoprop and EC, but not Xenon and EC. TBH, I think there's some sort of glitch allowing it to trigger emissivity under those conditions. Here are some test craft I use (I just Lazy Orbit them up, 'cause I'm lazy...)

📎 DS4G-1_Test_Craft.meta 📎 X4_Test_Craft.meta 📎 X3_Test_Craft.json 📎 X2_Test_Vehicle.meta

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 4:56 PM

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narrow gate Hmmm... Why is it working at all? It looks like you've got monoprop and EC, but ...

infinite fuel

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overrides those checks

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so it works even if you have no containers

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 4:57 PM

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chilly minnow so it works even if you have no containers

You might try a super simple craft that does use a Xenon tank - with these engines it's almost like infinite propellant...

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I can also try one like yours to see what I get as well

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I get the same as you using CM to set infinite EC and fuel

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chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:05 PM

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oh thats strange, let me try it like you said then! a sec

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thats very wierd cuz it should show eitherw ay

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i might be actually dumb ngl

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:08 PM

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Hmm.... Now it's broke at my end

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I did have to add cheat menu to do the previous test

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:10 PM

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yeah i've been using cheatmenu to get to orbit

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narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:10 PM

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That was it

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:10 PM

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why tf

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:10 PM

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Stupid freaking CM!

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:10 PM

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i wonder if it is something on my end

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:11 PM

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I disabled it and now I see this

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:11 PM

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nono cheatmenu is working fine

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:11 PM

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I also disabled shadow lib with it

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:11 PM

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actually, Lazy Orbit is what im using

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:12 PM

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The thing is the image above is from the same same as the one before it, and the difference at my end was disabling some mods

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chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:12 PM

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what i'll advise you

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:12 PM

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I mean, maybe it was ME... but I doubt it

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:12 PM

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is to, maybe in a near future

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make the emission match the color of the plume

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slightly, like a White with a bit of blue tint

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:13 PM

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yep

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agree

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:14 PM

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the best case scenario

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would be to let the Volumetric plume handle all of it

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which would also handle all the color changes etc etc

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basically by just adjusting the plume's brightness and End Falloff

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 5:15 PM

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so... there does seem to be some sort of adverse interaction between my mod, possibly yours, and (i think) one of shadow's

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I mean, it's crazy. Mine is a codeless mod, but with some disabled we get plumes and with them enabled we don't

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Probably need to sort that out

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:16 PM

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Gotta check CM source code

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cuz it really shouldnt be messing with LFO

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since LFO doesnt use any of the Game's assets

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only an interface

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either way i'll fix something that i just saw on the plume

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a bug on the shader

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and pack a LFO version

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btw what do you think of the workflow?

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to create a new plume, animate it and add it to the game?

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imo i think the animation needs more work and QoL features, wbu?

eager light Sep 20, 2023, 5:37 PM

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Still haven't gotten a working volumetric shader. Is that part of LFO?

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 5:37 PM

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Uhum

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 6:46 PM

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chilly minnow Uhum

I get this with Shadow Lib and ME enabled, and CM disabled

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chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 6:47 PM

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its CM then

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 6:47 PM

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Hmm... and that with CM enabled?

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 6:47 PM

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for sure

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oh wait

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the bottom one is CM?

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must be some wierd bug on LFO then

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hmm

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 6:47 PM

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And yet, for sure at one point I saw the same thing you did - no plume

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 6:58 PM

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yeah its seems to be quite sporadic

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 7:43 PM

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Testing a release candidate rn

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 8:53 PM

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📎 LFO-0.9.0.zip

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@narrow gate try this!

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Version 0.9.0
mod_id BACK to lowercase lfo

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also added more info to the logs to be easier to debug

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you should see this if your plume is not created, instead of the error you were getting
"[LFO] Shader {name} is not present on internal shader collection. Check logs for more information."

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[Info   :Lux's Flames and Ornaments] Loading LFO Shaders. LFOAdditive 2.0, LFO/Volumetric (Additive), LFO/Volumetric (Profiled)
[Error  :Lux's Flames and Ornaments] Error loading LFOAdditive 2.0. Shader material does not exists or can't be found.
 Key: lfo/lfo-resources/lfo/shaders/LFOAdditive 2.0.mat
[Info   :Lux's Flames and Ornaments] LFO Shaders loaded. LFO/Volumetric (Additive), LFO/Volumetric (Profiled)

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and also this, as you can see it displays what is added to the internal shader collection, this it saying check logs for more information

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this doesnt work yet

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but it'll probably take some time to fix it

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@narrow gate your call, want me to release LFO 0.9 with just the profiled plumes working? so that you can release your mod?

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 9:08 PM

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chilly minnow <@402620630585049088> your call, want me to release LFO 0.9 with just the profil...

So this release fixes the profiled plumes but breaks the new additive volumetric ones?

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 9:09 PM

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doesn't break since they weren't working properly before xD

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performance wise

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they did showup

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basically, the version i sent you has the most recent version of the shader

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which is working correctly on unity

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but not in game

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and thats the hardest part to debug

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since they should be working equally AsukaDead

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imma try a couple of things rn

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 9:11 PM

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chilly minnow since they should be working equally <:AsukaDead:880249910769897542>

Gotcha. If this fixes the profiled plumes then I'll take it and release those engines. I've got more work to do on other engines that I believe will also need the additive volumetric.

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 9:11 PM

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chilly minnow imma try a couple of things rn

Orr.... I can wait!

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 9:12 PM

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if it is fruitless i'll release the current version!

chilly minnow Sep 20, 2023, 9:41 PM

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if its this i'll be a bit sad ngl...

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and will also mean that the shader have to be packed another way

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yeah no luck

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you can test if on your pc it works

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but i'd doubt it

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i'll probably just revert to an older version when i get back to modding

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give this a test pls

📎 LFO-0.9.0.zip

narrow gate Sep 20, 2023, 11:59 PM

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:02 AM

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Is my pr aproved then?

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:02 AM

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Yep!

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:03 AM

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great

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i'll releas eit but soon i'll make something that you'll probably like!

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just thought of a way to make the plume expand and dim with lenght

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basically i'll just blur the pixel by taking samples across

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:04 AM

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Cool!

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:04 AM

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you might have to adjust somethings (like the cube scale)

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cuz it really annoys me that the plumes get those "stripes"

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instead of a "fog" effect near the end

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but they do look very good tho

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its mostly just a self-critique that i can«t get around lmao

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:05 AM

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These stripes?

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:05 AM

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yup, as you can see, the plume stays as 3 consistent stripes

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which shouldnt really be the case

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at least not as strong

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the idea is to have something like this

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and with a simple blur i think i can get the whole effect

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:09 AM

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TBH, I like the spikes.

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To me, they look more realistic

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:10 AM

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i mean theres no spyke there

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:11 AM

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I mean, maybe I need an additive volumetric to combine with it for the diffuse stuff in the middle

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:11 AM

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thats what the blur is meant to do

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dw it will all be pretty customizeable

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:11 AM

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Cool

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:11 AM

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the current plume is in a perfect world where the pressure outside the chamber is the same on the nozzle

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so the exhaust plumes just go forward, with no scatering or diffusion

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:12 AM

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As it is, I seem to get outer rings that are noticably dimmer than the inner ring, and maybe the central spike is a bit too bright, but I think I know how to address that with the profile.

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:12 AM

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yeah thats mostly bcuz of the profile

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if you notice they all get dimmer the further they are from the center

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but thats the right way to do it

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jsut maybe make the gradient more subtle

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but i wouldnt recommend making much changed to the profile just yet

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since i'll be changing the shader in a couple of days

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:15 AM

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:15 AM

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thats an interesting one

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if you're trying to replicate, probably, EndFalloff 15

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Position .9

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Lenghtwise Brightness 2

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but you still wont get the middle pylon i think

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:17 AM

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:17 AM

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you could probably do EndFalloff 2 Brightness .5 Lengthwise Brightness 2

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:17 AM

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narrow gate

also maybe drop the emissive on the engines by like half?

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:18 AM

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Yeah, that and tweak the collor to be more of a blue-white on emission

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:20 AM

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chilly minnow also maybe drop the emissive on the engines by like half?

Well this is weird...

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I was able to fix it by deactivating the engine then reactivating it

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:21 AM

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not sure if thats related to the plumes at all

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check if theres any exceptions

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:23 AM

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:29 AM

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R u just waiting for LFO's release?

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:49 AM

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@narrow gate version is out https://spacedock.info/mod/3383/[LFO] Lux's Flames and Ornamentshttps://spacedock.info/mod/3383/[LFO] Lux's Flames and Ornaments

SpaceDock

[LFO] Lux's Flames and Ornaments by LuxStice

0.9.0 for KSP2 0.1.4.0 | Download: 24.73 MiB | Released on: 2023-09-21
Pretty plumes and more!

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 2:01 AM

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Here's a bluish-white (0.8, 0.8, 0.95) with emissivity curve topping out at 0.5

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Same color topping out at 0.75 in the X3

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I think the 0.5 emissivity may be better. Might even go a shade lower

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Or possibly just a shade more blue...

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 2:13 AM

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narrow gate

would require a bit of painting

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but probably make a gradient on substance painter's emissive map

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from the core to the "nozzle"

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fromn like 1 to .25? maybe

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 2:15 AM

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Not sure how I'd even do that.

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I mean, there are the quads that make up the anodes. Those could be up near 1.

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But how would I get the channel walls to taper off from bighter deep inside to least bright at the rim?

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 3:53 AM

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just paint the mask with a normla brush

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instead of painting the quads or the object

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:26 AM

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I'll give that some thought. It sounds daugnting to get right, but in the mean time here's a more bluish glow

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Also, I figured out what caused theinability to control the throttle where it sticks on full. It's all about the cheat mode. I've got a lot of solar on this test craft, but not enough to run it at max thrust without depleating the EC. Somehow, possibly related to CM being installed, when I run out of EC the thing keeps on trucking. Thrust does not stop, and the only answer is to deactivate the engine, which allows EC to accumulate, which allows the craft to be controllable.

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The odd thing is that I don't have the infinite electricity cheat mode on, and I'm clearly out of EC, but the engine just keeps going. I don't think I've seen it do that before - so I suspect the addition of Cheat Mode. The only mods I've added recently are ME, CM, and Shadow Lib as a dependency for CM.

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:34 AM

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Try it w/o CM

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:35 AM

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Here's the emission and plume in full sun

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You can see the white of the boron nitride ceramic rim, but inside the channel things are (A) not washed out, and (B) bluish white. You can see the anode if you look closely.

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Here it is in full sun with the engine off. The anode is a nice dark anode-y color

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narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:53 AM

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OK, with no CM (and with or without Shadow Lib) it's doing this, which may be the same thing I was observing with CM and no cheats turned on

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narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:55 AM

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chilly minnow Try it w/o CM

When EC runs out, the plume gets dimmer, but does not stop, the emission seems to stay the same, and the thrust drops but does not go to zero!

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The engine's reported deltaV goes to zero, but not thrust?

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:56 AM

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Yeah its following the curve!

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:56 AM

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Then my curve is wrong...

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:56 AM

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Usually in those cases the thrust goes to like .01

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Which is still greater than 0

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:58 AM

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huh.... Gonna have to look at the curve then. It's interesting that ME and the game both report there being 0 Delta-V for the engine.

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:58 AM

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I need to add some debug info on LFO

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:59 AM

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Wait... Could it be this? The engine is taking up EC as fast as the panels can produce it, which is why the EC in the battery is 0, but it doesn't mean the engine isn't getting any.

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Maybe I'm commanding full throttle but getting the best steady state it can manage with the panels as they are?

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That was it!

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It's actually just fine!

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If you give it no EC it does stop (the plume, accel, and emission), but the throttle is stuck at 100 since you can't control with 0 EC in the system.

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The error, really, is that the system ought to still show you Delta-V!

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There is EC, it's just all going to the engine, which is running at a reduced effective throttle

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I'm going to need to re-deisgn this test craft with a lot more panels...

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:08 PM

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chilly minnow I need to add some debug info on LFO

@odd crescent @mellow patrol check out this bug in the game! If your power hungry ion engine is sucking up every scrap of EC it can, but the solar panels can't produce enough for the throttle setting you're at, then it will run at full throttle (or whatever you've set) until it depletes the EC in the batteries, and then transition to the best steady state effective throttle it can manage. That's not the bug. The bug is that with the craft in this mode where the engine is gobbling up all the EC produced, which happens to still be enough to produce some thrust, the game and ME both report the engine as having ZERO DELTA V!

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The throttle setting doesn't change (and in fact you can't change it as you've effectively lost control of the craft since the engine is sucking up all available EC), but the effective throttle is calculatable by looking at the ratio of actual thrust to max possible thrust.

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If you completely deprive the system of EC generation, then it just runs on batteries until they're out and then the effective throttle is zero. That's not a problem. But the fact that you can have an engine producing thrust and at the same time register the engine as having zero Delta-V, that's a bug!

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:49 PM

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:50 PM

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narrow gate

Ohh its coming along niceee

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Plumes need a but more work but thats on my sode

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Side*

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:50 PM

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I hope to release the frist version today

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 12:51 PM

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Btw

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The engines have too much noise on them

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Im not at home rn

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But you can tweak it on substance painter

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Basically to male the metal shinier

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Make*

odd crescent Sep 21, 2023, 12:53 PM

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availability of EC shouldn't be a factor for determining delta-v, that's what you're saying, right? I can take a look at what the game has in stage info, but I'm afraid ME only forwards this information, without any additional calculation, so I don't think it's easily fixable, unless we do the calculation manually.

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engine looks really, really nice btw!

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:56 PM

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odd crescent availability of EC shouldn't be a factor for determining delta-v, that's what yo...

Sort of, but not exactly. If there's 0 EC (panels are not deployed, reactor switched off, you're in shadow, etc.) then the thrust is zero and the Delta-V is zero. If there's some EC, but the engine is gobbling it all up, then there is thrust, and thus there is Delta-V, but you'll have a hard time controlling the craft (you can't control it, really)

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So, the problem is more nuanced. The situation is you're producing X, attempting to consume Y, and Y > X. This leaves nothing for control, lights, etc., but the engine seems to be taking priority. I think it's a priority flow thing for fuel, and EC is used like fuel

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This makes me wonder if probe cores and reaction wheels could be set to have a higher priority than engines...

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 12:59 PM

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chilly minnow Basically to male the metal shinier

Is this like dialing down grunge or something?

odd crescent Sep 21, 2023, 12:59 PM

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I'd argue that even if you have 0 EC without any power generation, you still have the same amount of delta-v (you have the propellant onboard), it's just that the propellant is not usable until you have EC to power on the machinery. I guess it's a matter of how you look at the situation 🙂

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 1:01 PM

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odd crescent I'd argue that even if you have 0 EC without any power generation, you still hav...

Sure, that's a solid point. Technically, you've got Delta-V in your tank, you just can't use it - but I think the game treats Delta V a bit like a boolean.

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Check out 16 seconds into this video: #1141807690264367135 message

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That's where it depletes the batteries and you see the trust drop - but not to zero!

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I would say any time your available thrust is > 0.001 then you've got Delta-V. It may or may not be useable, but it's in fact there

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I wonder if this is something Community Fixes could address...

odd crescent Sep 21, 2023, 1:04 PM

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this might be something for community fixes, yes

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 1:05 PM

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In which case, it doesn't need to be in ME, since ME would presumably just read it the same where ever it's getting it, and by fixing it there, it would also be fixed in other places too

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odd crescent Sep 21, 2023, 1:06 PM

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yes, that fix would also correct stock readout of deltav in the bottom right corner

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 1:08 PM

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That's 10 of the largest solar panels in the game (Kesa SP XXL Colossus, not wimpy Gigantors), and even that's not quite enough to guarantee a steady state 100% throttle on this beast.

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All to get a whopping 4 kN of thrust. Way more than Dawn's 0.2...

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It's actually quite a lot, really. You can easily escape Kerbin with this thing.

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#

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 4:02 PM

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narrow gate Is this like dialing down grunge or something?

Theres a bit more onto it, ill be home in 5

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Its messing with the layers on the grunge mask

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It looks like rusted metal rn AsukaDead

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 9:04 PM

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chilly minnow It looks like rusted metal rn <:AsukaDead:880249910769897542>

Right now, this is all I've got in Grunge for the SPT-100. I believe the others are similar.

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The SPT-100, X2, X3, and X4 also have a smart material for "worn copper".

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I'm using KSP2 DarkSteel for the anodes, KSP Gray Steel for some parts, and then KSP2 Steel for the rest other than things that are ceramic, etc.

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@chilly minnow are there any viable options for a placeholder plume for the DS4G-1? That's the one we did with the volumetric additive plume. What options are there in LFO 0.9.0?

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 9:26 PM

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you could use simple meshbased ones

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baiscally

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just drag and drop the flames mesh on the LFO/Meshes folder

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and add the LFO/Additive

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:02 PM

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chilly minnow and add the LFO/Additive

Thanks! I'll give that a shot.

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In the meantime, here's what I've come up with for some more fun descriptions.

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If you need a really small (tiny! 0.3125m-class) low thrust/high ISP electric engine, then the SPT-100 is the part to pick. Weighing in at a mere 0.075t, it's one of the smallest engines you can find anywhere, yet it delivers a whopping 0.3 kN of thrust with an incredible 2,200s of Isp.
What's better than a Hall Effect Thruster? A Nested Hall Thruster! Why settle for just one discharge chamber when you can have two! The SPARK X2 packs terrific thrust into an Extra Small (0.625m-class) package, delivering high Isp and low thrust without needing as much power as a small town just to operate.
Other gridded ion engines may have just two or three grids, but why stop there? The DS4G-1 has four grids, and it knows how to use 'em! Providing unbeatable Isp and best-in-class thrust, the DS4G-1 can take you far. Just be sure to bring lots of power because it's notoriously hungry...
Having seen what they can do with two nested thrusters, the engineers at SPARK Technologies decided to one-up themselves and go for three! Turns out, this required moving up a size category to Small (1.25m-class), but that didn't stop them. The SPARK X3 was the result, delivering high Isp along with nearly 2 kN of thrust! However, it does need a lot of power.
The SPARK X4 is the pinnacle in Small (1.25m-class) Ion engines - seriously. We just couldn't fit any more nested thrusters into an engine this size. On the plus side, it does deliver best in class thrust with a superb Isp. On the minus side it requires a staggering amount of power... Get it? Minus side? Electrons? Why are you not laughing?

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:16 PM

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chilly minnow just drag and drop the flames mesh on the `LFO/Meshes` folder

do you mean "drag and drop the Flames mesh from the LFO/Meshes folder?" 'cause there's already one of those in there.

#

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Also, do I need to take anything from the new 0.9.0 version into the unity project? Perhaps a copy of lfo-resources.bundle?

#

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I think what I've got in the unity project now may be some test code you sent me.

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Am I on the right track?

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narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:27 PM

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chilly minnow and add the LFO/Additive

I may be misunderstanding this step.

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Does this mean add a component? If so, I don't see LFO/Additive, but there is LFO Volume.

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 10:31 PM

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narrow gate

just add the material now 🙏

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its a material with the shader LFO/Aditive

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:32 PM

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I've screwed it all up. I double clicked on the Flames I think and now I can't see my engine in the scene.

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 10:33 PM

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you're probably editing the prefab

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just get out of it 🙏

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:33 PM

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#

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Ahhh shit. Whatever I've done I can't see my engines in the other scene either

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Wait, I've got em back, just had to double click on 'em

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LOL, now their all on my screen!

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From not enough to to many

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OK, I'm back to just the one I wanted to work on.

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:39 PM

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chilly minnow its a material with the shader `LFO/Aditive`

Something here?

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@chilly minnow , sorry, I'm lost here.

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I can't find LFO/Additive as a material.

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I was able to add the spark_ds4g1_material, but that's probably not right

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 10:46 PM

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LFO additive is the shader

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let me double check what ist called

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Shader "LFO/Additive"

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 10:48 PM

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I must be dumb. I'm not seeing where to set that. Right now I've got a material of spark_ds4g1_material (probably wrong but it was checker_map_gravity before)

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There's a spot for shader, but it doesn't let me pick anything

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 10:57 PM

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unpack the prefab

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:09 PM

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chilly minnow unpack the prefab

OK I did. That put me back with the checker map material. This time I switched it to DS4G-1.1 Plume material, which has a shader of LFO/Volumetric (Additive)

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I changed that to LFO/Additive

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This has me here now. Not sure what to do next.

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I think the scale and rotation may be way off...

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narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:14 PM

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chilly minnow unpack the prefab

Maybe I'm getting somewhere?

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But when I make the scale even smaller it get's weird and almost vanishes - so maybe I'm not doing that right.

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Also, it doesn't see to be picking up the new child.

#

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@chilly minnow do these matter?

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I've got something that might almost work, but it won't let me collect children - or at least it doesn't seem to be doing anything useful with that. I can toggle Active on and off and the only thing that happens there is the old plume comes and goes

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So, I don't think Save config will do me any good yet.

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:53 PM

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narrow gate <@135118540377161728> do these matter?

yes!

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you're setting a 3D texture

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and its asking you for a 2D texture

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the other noises are 2D texture

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the 3D ones are named 3D Noise #

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you can scale the mesh gameobject however you want btw

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:55 PM

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chilly minnow and its asking you for a 2D texture

I'm confused. Are you saying I've got a 3D texture but need a 2D one, or the other way?

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And also where is this? The noise?

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I see that's set to a 3D texture

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:56 PM

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wait

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are you using

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:56 PM

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Do I need to pick one of these?

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:56 PM

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LFO/Volumetric

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or LFO Additive?

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the shader

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on the material

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:57 PM

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LFO/Additive

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:57 PM

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huh ok

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:57 PM

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chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:57 PM

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but yeah, as you can see, 3 of those look like a cube

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those are 3D Textures

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you should set 2D textures on a material that's not volumetric

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the mesh-based LFO/Adittive is not volumetric

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so it requires any of those other noises

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anyone of those work

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excluting the 3 cubes

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:58 PM

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OK I went with fx-katniss-blured

chilly minnow Sep 21, 2023, 11:59 PM

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sounds good

narrow gate Sep 21, 2023, 11:59 PM

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chilly minnow sounds good

I still have the issue that I can't seem to "collect children"

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When I zoom out, it looks like this

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chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:01 AM

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make the mesh smaller

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way smaller

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and to collect children, make sure that it is a child of the LFO MAster Group

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and that it has an LFO Throttle Data

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:02 AM

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chilly minnow and that it has an LFO Throttle Data

OK, it doesn't have an LFO Throttle Data, that would be that problem. For scale do you mean this?

#

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Because when I go any smaller it kinda vanishes

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:02 AM

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the ideal way to work with these

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is for the mesh

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(the blue outlined mesh)

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to be roughtly the size of the nozzle

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at least on the xz plane

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:04 AM

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OK, that's looking OK I think

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#

Awww, nuts. I had two plumes and wanted one, but wanted to make a copy of the variant so I wouldn't lose the old one. And that's where things went wrong. I copied and pasted the variant, then deleted the new plume from one of the two copies thinking it would obviously still be in the other one.

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Damn you , unity - you stupid counterintuitive POS!

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OK, I think I've recovered it and maybe have this put back together...

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But my prefab variant is no longer a prefab I think. Not sure if that's a problem

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chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:16 AM

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no not really

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:16 AM

#

#

Is this a problem?

#

#

I get that when I try to save the config

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:19 AM

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do the following

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:19 AM

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chilly minnow no not really

What's a MeshFilter and how do I add one?

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:20 AM

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add a MEshFilter

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and a mesh renderer

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and delete the skinned mesh renderer

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MEshFilter is basically the component that stores the mesh

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and mesh renderer the one that stores the materials and renders it to the camera

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:21 AM

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OK, did that, but now the plume is gone.

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It vanished when I deleted the skinned mesh renderer

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I did set the new Mesh Renderer to have the same material as before

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DS4G-1.1 Plume

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Aww darn, I think I goofed up the other prefab variant when I deleted the skinned mesh renderer

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Why are these god damn things linked?

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Why can't they be each their own thing? It like there's some kind of weird quantum superposition crap going on. You touch one and the other one falls over

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:30 AM

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set the material

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and the mesh

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the mesh was suposed to go automatically

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tho

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just search for flames

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:31 AM

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Got it!

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Looks ok from the side, but tail on it just vanishes.

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Better than nothing, though!

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Also, doesn't look like I'm getting the emissivity out of the engine that I should, but this is workable for a plume!

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Oh, this is crazy! The engine is OFF in the shots above! That's why there isn't any emission...

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:43 AM

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thats the problem of the mesh based plumes

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they look horrible from below AsukaDead

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i am working on a fix tho

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:44 AM

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But why is there a plume when the engine is activated and throttle is at 0?

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chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:46 AM

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iirc either KSP2 or my code disables them

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i think its KSP2 tho

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should also happen with the volumetrics

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:48 AM

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I'm pretty sure this does not happen on the other engines. With those when I throttle down the plume decreases until it's gone at 0 throttle (or 10% or whatever)

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But here, the only thing that goes away is the emission when I throttle down

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The plume just keeps on keeping on

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:49 AM

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OH im sorry!

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thats cuz its not animated

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:49 AM

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Behold! Plume at 0 throttle!

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chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:49 AM

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or did you animate the plume?

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:49 AM

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I don't honestly know what I did.

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I messed around in a prefab variant to make a plume. I saved the config once I got an OK plume. I copied the config into the assets/plumes folder, and then I launched the game.

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:51 AM

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animating the plume = adding those curves

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:51 AM

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The last time I made the part though it had the other volumetric plume

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 12:51 AM

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Can i see the curves?

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:52 AM

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The atmo curve:

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Emissivity curve:

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I think those are the only two

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Or I've forgotten where another one is

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 1:11 AM

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im talking about the LFO Throttle data curves xD

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 11:23 AM

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chilly minnow im talking about the LFO Throttle data curves xD

Hmmm... comparing to what I've got for the SPT-100 I see that there's a difference in the LFO Throttle Data (Script) part of the plume. There were some other (minor?) differences too, like the SPT-100 plume had a box collider and the DS4G-1 plume did not, as well as the order of things. I've added a box collider and set the order the same, but one place I can't seem to find a way to affect is this.

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For DS4G-1 it shows None on Renderer, but for SPT-100 it's like this

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I have not found any curves in any of the plumes I've got, so I'm probably not yet understanding something here.

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 11:27 AM

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chilly minnow im talking about the LFO Throttle data curves xD

I assume I need the DS4G-1's plume to point to a renderer like the other plumes do. That's grayed out and won't let me do anything with it. Clicking on New Material Instance doesn't seem to do anything I can see. Am I on the right track here? What do I need to do to set that?

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One other difference between the two plumes is that the SPT-100 has a LFO Volume (Script) and the DS4G-1 doesn't, but then I assume it doesn't need a LFO Volume (Script).

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 11:57 AM

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Damn, this thing eats power like nobody's business...

#

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The game says it needs 400 EC/s to operate. Those panels should each be producing 35 EC/s, so you'll needed 12 of them to get to 420...

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And that's at Kerbin, with each panel fully illuminated! I many need to make a Near Future Electrical analog for KSP2 to bring in suitable Nuclear options...

pine slate Sep 22, 2023, 12:21 PM

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narrow gate

wheres the fuel?

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Ion still uses a fuel.

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:36 PM

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pine slate Ion still uses a fuel.

Says right there in the fine print: Xenon gas 0.015 t/h max.

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The fuel type is actually XenonEC, with an additional require resource of EC.

pine slate Sep 22, 2023, 12:37 PM

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but no fuel

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:38 PM

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Yes Fuel! right between the engine and the probe core there's a size XS Xenon tank.

pine slate Sep 22, 2023, 12:38 PM

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looks like a probe core

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:38 PM

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It's in the pic you posted. Looks black with some gray vertical stripes

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The probe core is gold

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Right below the gold probe core is the black fuel tank (with some lights on it), and then after that the engine.

pine slate Sep 22, 2023, 12:40 PM

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2 possible places.

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:40 PM

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You can see it better here: #1141807690264367135 message

pine slate Sep 22, 2023, 12:40 PM

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OHHHH

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I see it now

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I thought that was part of the engine.

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:41 PM

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Yep, it's pretty small. Also, I forgot that there's a size XS battery in between the probe core and the tank. I think the lights are actually on that.

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By mass, the craft is probably mostly solar panels, and after that some structure. The engine is just tacked on as an after thought...

#

#

The spiral thing is the RF exciter around the plasma chamber. The plasma chamber glows yellow when you're running the engine. You can see three of the four grid assemblies, with the fourth one inset into the aft plate.

#

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Here you can see the fourth and final grid (the other three aren't actually modeled as you can't see them. This grid glows blue with the same color as the plume when you're running it.

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There is an insane number of polys in that grid as I'm too stupid to find a way to "paint them" for free and far too cheap to pay $50/mo for a subscription just to get that from Adobe.

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Here's a better view with overhead lighting in the VAB

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pine slate Sep 22, 2023, 12:50 PM

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I love the details.

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 12:52 PM

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pine slate I love the details.

Thank you! It was one of the more fun ones to make. Here are some shots of the real thing.

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I've scaled it up in size, and kerbalized the thrust, but not the Isp. It really does give nearly 20Ks of Isp.

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Here's the other end of this silly craft

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@chilly minnow , I did a quick remove and re-add on the LFO Throttle Data and this time it picked up the Renderer. I also added the LFO Volume (Script) since the other plumes had it. I'm still unable to control the plume with the throttle on this, so I'm clearly still missing an animation. Looking at the other working plumes I'm not yet seeing it. Am I looking in the wrong place? I must be...

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The X2 looks like this and it works fine

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The DS4G-1 looks like this and does not animate the plume with the throttle

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 4:49 PM

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narrow gate The X2 looks like this and it works fine

since there's no Float Params field on your Thorttle Data

#

it means that it does not have a parent gameobject with a LFO MAster Group

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 9:24 PM

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chilly minnow it means that it does not have a parent gameobject with a LFO MAster Group

Well, it did have a parent with a LFO Master Group, so I did a reimport on LFO/Scripts/LFO.dll and that seems to have sorted it out. Now I see the Config section under Throttle Data with a place for Float Params!

#

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 9:42 PM

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chilly minnow it means that it does not have a parent gameobject with a LFO MAster Group

OK, got it sorted. This was exactly the clue/reminder I needed! I've added Float Params for _Opacity, _Noise, _Lengthwise Brightness, and _Falloff. Now my DS4G-1 plume seems to be behaving! I think maybe those weren't in the others because they were in the profile or something so maybe I didn't need to specify them? IDK, really. Probably I ought to go back and put those into the others.

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 9:44 PM

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you did specify the _Opacity on the others!

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they are on the configs at least

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 9:46 PM

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Well, I'm not sure why they're there. They were all unspecified in the prefab variants. Maybe they got done in the actual prefabs? IDK, but I'm fixing them now.

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 9:50 PM

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chilly minnow they are on the configs at least

Hmmm.... Something is just a bit weird. I did the same steps with each to add all four float params, and then did a save with each one. However, only 3 of the 5 actually showed up as new in the LFO/configs folder

#

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 9:50 PM

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it should show errors on the console

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 9:51 PM

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So, now I've got a brand new config json for X2, SPT100, and of course DS4G-1, but the X3 and X4 are old

#

#

I did spot that somehow my prefab variant for the X4 didn't have an LFO Throttle Data Master Group, so I added one and did a collect children. That was necessary obviously to be able to do a Save config.

#

I see that with the X3 and X4 it's not actually showing the plume on the variant even with Group Throttle set to 100

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But I do see plumes on X2, SPT100, and DS4G-1

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 9:59 PM

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chilly minnow it should show errors on the console

Looks like it's this

#

#

Mesh Path and Target Game Object are blank for X3 (probably X4 too), where with the X2 they are like this

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However it doesn't let me just type into those fields. I can type into them, but it vanishes.

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 10:01 PM

#

collect children

#

and save it

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thats not critical when its empty

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it gets auto generated by LFO M;aster Group

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 10:01 PM

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I did the collect children step, but they stayed blank

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There's also this though

#

#

With the x2 it's this

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I fixed that for X3. I dragged the x3_plume_material from the project onto that field, but this didn't fix it. Did another collect and still get the same error on save

#

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Ahhh! X3 needs a noise!

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Same problem on X4

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 10:10 PM

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narrow gate

you shoulnd't use made materials with the plumes!

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click Create New MAterial Instance

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LFO makes the materials for you btw

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 10:12 PM

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OK, fixed that.

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I think it may finally be ready for an initial release!

#

Uh oh... This re-making of the plume json files has killed some plumes. The X4 now doesn't have one. Need to test the others. No doubt its some issue in the JSONs I just up into the game. I should have saved the previous ones...

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Same with X3 and X2...

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 10:25 PM

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send the jsons!

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 10:28 PM

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📎 spark_spt100.json 📎 spark_x2.json 📎 spark_x3.json 📎 spark_x4.json

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These are the new ones, and they're all not giving me a plume

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I've got a plume with the mesh-based DS4G-1, but not with any of the volumetric profiled plumes now

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Must have stepped on something

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 10:29 PM

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also the BepInEx log

#

pls

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 10:30 PM

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📎 LogOutput.log

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 10:30 PM

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huh i might know what it is

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let me check the logs to confirm

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interesting... no error

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uhu i think i see

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Your ThrottleCurveType is as 1, which means Multiply

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It multiplies by Value

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and your Value is at 0.0

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 10:32 PM

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Doh!

chilly minnow Sep 22, 2023, 10:32 PM

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if you want the Throttle Curve to be the only one that affects

#

set it as 0 (Base)

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or, you can keep it as you want, and set Value to 1

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It multiplies the Value by the Curve when the mode is 1 (Multiply)

narrow gate Sep 22, 2023, 10:40 PM

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All better now!

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I'm gonna ship it!

narrow gate Sep 23, 2023, 1:52 AM

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https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/219596-stellar-plasma-assisted-rocket-kinetics-spark-technologies-010/

Kerbal Space Program Forums

Stellar Plasma-Assisted Rocket Kinetics (SPARK) Technologies [0.1.0]

SPARK Technologies is proud to present the latest in electric rocket engines. These Ion engines deliver exceptionally high specific impulse (Isp), with credible (actually measurable) thrust. Just add a wee bit of Xenon (and more EC than you ever thought you'd need) and you'll be off to the races....

narrow gate Sep 23, 2023, 2:16 AM

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https://spacedock.info/mod/3470/SPARK Technologies

SpaceDock

SPARK Technologies by Schlosrat

0.1.0 for KSP2 0.1.4.0 | Download: 33.40 MiB | Released on: 2023-09-23
Solving your High Isp need with low thrust solutions

sacred crag Sep 24, 2023, 4:13 AM

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So happy to see this mod released, been waiting in hopes that I may be able to make the ion engine plane I've always wanted

sacred crag Sep 24, 2023, 4:38 AM

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Is it possible to include a config file where some of the values for the ion engines could be changed? KSP 1's ion engine was significantly less power hungry and there are not currently great power sources for these engines so I'd personally want to tune them down

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 12:52 PM

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sacred crag Is it possible to include a config file where some of the values for the ion eng...

I think @coral orbit is working on a mod that may make it possible to adjust part parameters on stock and presumably also non-stock parts. That said, KSP2 parts don't use a config file like KSP1 parts do - this is why KSP2 load times are so much spectacularly better.

I've attempted to balance the power consumption of these parts based on Nertea's similar parts where I scaled off the stock KSP2 Dawn engine. So what I did was to compare the KSP1 Dawn to the KSP2 Dawn to get a general KSP1-to-KSP2 scaling, then scaled things like thrust and power consumption off of similar KSP1 Near Future Propulsion parts. The Isp's are generally at the high end of realistic for engines like this. The thrust is about 3 orders of magnitude higher than real world (it's been "Kerbalized"), and the mass is hopefully fairly realistic.

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 12:56 PM

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sacred crag So happy to see this mod released, been waiting in hopes that I may be able to m...

I'm not aware of any real-world or KSP ion engines that work in an atmosphere. There's an Isp curve for each of these engines that nerfs them down to about 100 (which makes them effectively useless) when they're at 1 atmosphere. To get any sort of real performance out of them you do need to be operating outside of an atmosphere. Perhaps you're thinking of the nuclear jet engines? Those are basically nuclear thermal engines that use air as the fuel. I could add some of those I think fairly easily (he says optimistically never having made jet engines...) and that might get you what you're looking for.

sacred crag Sep 24, 2023, 3:31 PM

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narrow gate I'm not aware of any real-world or KSP ion engines that work in an atmosphere. T...

I’m talking about Duna planes, the atmosphere is so thin there that the penalty to ion engines is almost non existent. It’s possible to make duna ion engine planes in KSP 1 but not 2 because of the severe nerf

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I realize it’s not the most realistic so I don’t expect you to balance your mod that way, I didn’t realize ksp 2 didn’t have config files. Hopefully Cheese is able to finish that config mod

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 3:36 PM

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sacred crag I realize it’s not the most realistic so I don’t expect you to balance your mod ...

I'm not sure what you mean by the nerf to KSP2 ion engines. When I look at KSP1 (with only MJ, NFP, and NFE installed as mods), I see this for the dawn

mellow patrol Sep 24, 2023, 3:37 PM

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#1115274490490929172

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 3:37 PM

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In KSP1 that thing sucks down 15 EC/sec. In KSP2 though it's like this

mellow patrol Sep 24, 2023, 3:37 PM

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mellow patrol <#1115274490490929172>

more specifically, https://github.com/KSP2Community/PatchManager/releases/tag/v0.2.0-prerelease

GitHub

Release 0.2.0 Prerelease · KSP2Community/PatchManager

Allow for creation of assets with new labels
Allow for custom adapters for different types of module data (will be creating an engine one soon)

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then you just need to write the patch

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 3:37 PM

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Here you can see that in KSP2, if anything, the stock ion engine got a buff in that it needs 50% less EC/s

sacred crag Sep 24, 2023, 3:39 PM

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The ksp 2 ion engine has 5x less thrust?

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 3:39 PM

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Well, it did get a nerf in thrust... Is that what you meant? In KSP1 it produced an astronomical 1kN of thrust (easily more than 3 orders of magnitude better than real word)

sacred crag Sep 24, 2023, 3:39 PM

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That’s what I’m talking about

narrow gate Sep 24, 2023, 3:41 PM

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You may be able to use the 0.2.0 Prerelease of PatchManager to tweak the SPARK (or stock) engines to beef up their thrust or change most other parameters for that matter. I've not used it, so I can't say - but it's worth a shot, right?

coral orbit Sep 24, 2023, 3:59 PM

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Its possible

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Just need to know the json structure

mellow patrol Sep 24, 2023, 4:16 PM

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{
  "data": {
    "partName": "spark_spt100",
    "serializedPartModules": [
      {
        "Name": "PartComponentModule_Engine",
        "ModuleData": [
          {
            "Name": "Data_Engine",
            "DataObject": {
              "engineModes": [
                {
                  "minThrust": 0.0,
                  "maxThrust": 0.3   
                }
              ]
            }
          }
        ]
      }
    ]
  }
}

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this is the hierarchy for thrust

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 12:17 AM

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The first SPARK Magnetoplasmadynamic thruster is coming along nicely

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I'll have to add Lithium as a fuel and make some Lithium tanks, but for now the thing thinks it uses Xenon...

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The first one is size XS, of course, so it only consumes 400 EC/s...

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:10 AM

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Getting somewhere!

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Need to tweak the plume some more, and there's something amiss with the emissivity. Other than that, it's working!

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It burns through fuel like nobody's business...

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For an Ion engine that is

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This thrust is nuts!

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This is like a decent chemical engine!

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:23 AM

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Looks great! I loved some of the modded plasma engines from KSP 1, especially with beamed power to feed their EC demands

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:36 AM

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Getting better!

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Emissivity works, though I should taper it off. I also need to scale the plume a bit better so that the emissivity inside the nozzle falls off about where the plume separates from the nozzle.

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:38 AM

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sacred crag Looks great! I loved some of the modded plasma engines from KSP 1, especially wi...

I never played around with beamed power - probably should have.

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This seems to show the plume starting at about the right place...

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Let's try this - 25% bigger

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sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:42 AM

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I used the variety from KSP Interstellar Extended and it felt both very powerful but also very balanced. It was a lot of work to setup a beamed power relay system, and there are a multitude of challenges to receiving it properly and how it impacts your thrust, distance from the nearest receiver drastically reducing your power received, needing the proper angle for the antenna, etc. I hope to see the same sort of system make it to KSP 2 eventually (Maybe even in Vanilla(?))

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:45 AM

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LOL! I stayed awa from KSP IE - the last time I tried it it seemed waaaaay to hard

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:45 AM

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It was a really cool mod that lacked a proper wiki to explain the mechanics that were very confusing at times

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:46 AM

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I tended to keep my games simple, though I always had a lot of mods

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:47 AM

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It didnt help that a lot of the engines accepted 20+ fuels and it was really confusing knowing which one to use for which kinds of engines

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:47 AM

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I used a lot of USI stuff - but not the life support parts, and of course Extraplanetary launchpads. That was a fun one. I loved to build boot-strap ISRU bases in remote places and get them up to be fully functional outposts

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Here's the expanded plume. A bit better, but not really good yet. Definitely need to do some kind of fall off with the emissivity inside the nozzle.

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sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:49 AM

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narrow gate

I am curious, how do you decide on stuff like the thrust and ISP? Is it based off real life metrics or something else?

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:50 AM

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The Isp is generally based on real life, but for thrust, mass, and EC consumption I'm leveraging the similar parts in Nertea's NFP/NFE. He did a lot of work on that to get it to some sort of "game balance", so I'm using his numbers as a point of departure. I've started with those, but may tweak them a bit

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All the thrusts are rediculously "Kerbalized"

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Generally up by about 1000x

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That's what he did, and so I'm doing the same

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Believe it or not, I pull a lot of stuff from universities and PhD thesis's or other academic papers

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:52 AM

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I imagine once we have the really complex maneuvers that handle extremely long periods of thrust that will be less necessary, but for now for usability sakes that seems necessary

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:53 AM

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Yeah, in real life a miniscule thrust over days or weeks is not a big deal to a mission that takes months. In a game like this it would drive players mad currently. It does need to be fun!

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So, the electric engines get a massive boost to thrust, but not enough that you'd do something silly like launch with them, etc.

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:55 AM

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Even with the really high EC/s cost that plasma engine seems like it would be the most powerful in your mod currently, since its thrust is approaching something like the terrier and even weighs less

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I guess you'd be limited to places a bit closer to Kerbol to feed the power demand though

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:56 AM

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Yeah, I think you could pretty much use this thing for a mission to the surface of minmus - though it does require a honking big reactor

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:57 AM

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sacred crag I guess you'd be limited to places a bit closer to Kerbol to feed the power dema...

Oh, god! Solar! You'd need 12 of the Colossus solar panels from Kesa to run this thing! It's nuts!

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:57 AM

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Am I misremembering how much power the largest vanilla panels provide? I thought it was nearly a hundred each

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:57 AM

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In KSP2 the bigest one does 35/s

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A (stock) Gigantor makes 12/s

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You need Kesa Solar to get to 35/s, and then each one weighs 0.467 tons

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 2:59 AM

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You're right it is 35/s. I misremembered them being closer to 100/s

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 2:59 AM

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That would be 5.6 tons of solar, not counting the structure you'd need to mount all that.

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Or you can run with a single 1.7 ton reactor

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Of course, once thermodynamics gets here then the reactor will need radiators, but still.

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And the reactor, obviously, runs night and day for years. So, no contest really

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Really, it was the DS4G-1 that forced me to go make a NFE variant for KSP2. Below that engine solar isn't a horrible option, but still, it won't help much past Duna.

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The next engine I make will need 1000 EC/s, and that's just a Size SM MPD thruster.

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That one will make nearly 100 kN, but you'd need a much bigger reactor, or just more reactors. I think the little guy is almost more useful - at least for smaller more manageable craft.

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:07 AM

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Something like this can supply around 60% of the power to it, although Im not sure about fuel, and Micro Engineer says the TWR is only sufficient for Minimus. Its not very hard to land on Minimus in the first place though so arguably a questionable decision to use it

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Nuclear reactors definitely seems to be the way to go. Vanilla solar just doesnt have what it takes

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:16 AM

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Good god, are those the big Xenon tanks? What's the total Delta-V?

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How about this instead?

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It's got more than enough TWR for Minmus and a ludicrous amount of Delta-V.

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Heck, with that delta-V and TWR, why not go to Ike?

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Or Mun, certainly

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sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:22 AM

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How are you supplying the 400ec/s?

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That a modded reactor?

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:22 AM

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That's a FPS-400

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:23 AM

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Ah yeah so thats the one from your other mod

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:23 AM

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Yep

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There's a new version so that there are both Open and Inline variants

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:24 AM

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The vanilla one is a bit lighter but only produces 50ec/s

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:24 AM

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Yeah, it's like either an RTG, or a far more realistic thing

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The old Soviet Topaz reactors or the US SNAP-10 were about like that

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:25 AM

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That makes the engine a lot more usable then

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:25 AM

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Yep.

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You can really go places with this thing!

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But I do need to implement Lithium as a fuel.

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:26 AM

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Maybe a bit too much, but hey thats to be expected when the game doesnt actually have thermodynamics and thats one of the main difficulties with reactors

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:27 AM

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Yep. Once that's a factor then these will be a bit better balanced

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:29 AM

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Im thinking about using two of those on some kind of plane VTOL craft

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Hope your progress with them continues smoothly!

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:30 AM

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When you look at this, it may seem like these numbers are not really all that insane

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https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/nuclear-power-reactors/small-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx

Small nuclear power reactors - World Nuclear Association

There is revival of interest in small and simpler units for generating electricity from nuclear power, and for process heat. This interest in small nuclear power reactors is driven both by a desire to reduce capital costs and to provide power away from large grid systems.

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These so-called small nuclear reactors would produce MW-class power, where notionally 1 EC/s = 1 KWe

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So, reactors the size of a semi truck might be producing 1000's of EC/s (to use KSP's units)

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That makes a car sized one making 100's of EC/s not quite so silly looking

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:35 AM

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Are the EC/s numbers for the solar panels realistic as well?

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Trying to figure it out based off the ISS panels

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:46 AM

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sacred crag Are the EC/s numbers for the solar panels realistic as well?

I’m not certain about that. What I’ve read is that both solar and batteries in KSP are somewhat unrealistic, but I don’t recall in which birection for solar

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:47 AM

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The colossus is 467KG for 35EC/s, and the ISS panels are supposedly 1088KG each and produce 31KWe

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:47 AM

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Batteries are both too heavy and far too good in that they don’t do any of the normal things real batteries do - like wear out and hysteresis etc.

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:48 AM

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So the power output seems about right for a gigantic solar panel, but it should be roughly twice the weight

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:48 AM

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sacred crag The colossus is 467KG for 35EC/s, and the ISS panels are supposedly 1088KG each ...

So the roughly a 2x improvement

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:48 AM

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sacred crag So the power output seems about right for a gigantic solar panel, but it should ...

Yep

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Though there is also the physical size. Is a single Colossus about the same area as the ISS panels?

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:50 AM

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How am I supposed to figure that out?

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:51 AM

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Can you google the area of the ISS manes in square meters or something?

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:52 AM

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They are 35 meters in length, and 12 meters wide.

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The colossus solar panels seem to be about 4 meters wide

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:52 AM

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With the Colossus I think we can work it out using in game structural parts for comparison, or just ask @broken raptor since he made it

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:53 AM

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Maybe 16 meters in length or so?

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Thats a 3.75m part

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So quite a lot smaller than the real thing, unsurprisingly

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:54 AM

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So the mass might not be far off given the size, but then the power is high

sacred crag Sep 29, 2023, 3:55 AM

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Right

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The ISS solar panels got upgraded very recently as well

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Looks like its been in progress over the last two years

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So thats probably pretty representative of some of the best solar panels you could get for a spacecraft

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 11:23 AM

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By counting the little square sections in the panels it's definitely a 1 x 4 aspect ratio for those. There's a bit more of the white structure on either side and at the end, but those parts are just "decorative" in that they wouldn't contribute to power production. Since that's a 3.75m part it's attached to, I'd venture that the active part of the panels might be 3.5m x 14m, or maybe a bit more. So, these are giving some really impressive performance. That said, what's the area of a Gigantor, and how does that compare for power? If the Colossus is making the same EC/m^2, then the Colossus is well balanced and it's more likely that solar is just a bit OP in the game.

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:25 PM

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Hmmm... I've goofed up the plume on MPD-1. It was working, but now it's oriented 90 degrees off and scaled way down

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Also, but half-asstactical approach to graduated emission leaves something to be desired...

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LOL... An improvement.

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narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 3:54 PM

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Emission gradient possibly solved? Super easy, just add a 3D Linear Gradient to the black mask on Emissive, set to multiply, and invert

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narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 4:14 PM

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Gradient (mostly) fixed!

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Other than the "leakage" at the base this worked. Need to do a re-paint on that, then it's OK. Noe clues yet on how I borked my plume...

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 5:18 PM

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@chilly minnow, sorry for the ping. I'm stumped on what I might have done wrong with my MPD-1 plume. It was working, and now it's not. Now it's tiny and rotated wrong. I've tried comparing the part prefabs and the part prefab variants. It looks fine in Unity, but wacky in the game. I've tried comparing the plume configs between this and the other mesh plume I have for the DS4G-1. So far no luck.

📎 spark_mpd_xs.json

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 5:51 PM

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DS4G-1 still works fine...

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narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 6:58 PM

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OK, root cause found, sort of. I cleverly added a gimbal module to the engine and thought I'd configured it correctly. Apparently not!

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Now this is fairly tolerable!

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narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 7:24 PM

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Soo... The problem was really this I think. I'd added the Module Gimbal, and in doing so I set the Gimbal Range, but I'd accepted the default value for the Gimbal Transform Name (which had defaulted to thrustTransform). That was all it took to completely hose my plume. I seem to have both a working plume and a gimbal now, though I've not really tested the gimbal to see for sure if it works. All I did was to copy the thrustTransform object, rename it gimbal, and set the Gimbal Transform Name to gimbal.

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Seems to work, now to test my crappy +/- 1 deg gimbal.

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Nope, the gimbal seems to have no effect.

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@serene abyss, I'm trying to implement a gimbal on one of my engines, but I seem to be doing it wrong.

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Do you know how to implement a gimbal on an engine?

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Is there more than just adding a Module Gimbal and pointing it at an appropriate transform?

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 7:48 PM

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@sharp cove check out the flawless landing K2-D2 just did using a magnetoplasmadynamic (ion) engine at the Mun!

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This crazy little engine (size XS) took this small probe from LKO (100x100 km orbit) to a circular (50x50 km) orbit at the Mun, and from there down to a flawless landing.

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Oh, and it started with a full tank and ended like this

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Yes, there was over 16K m/s Delta-V at the start, and more than 15k remains. I could take off and fly to Duna and land on Ike with this thing.

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:22 PM

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Hmmm... Duna is a lot smaller and more gray than I remember...

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serene abyss Sep 29, 2023, 8:26 PM

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narrow gate <@689957575458160697>, I'm trying to implement a gimbal on one of my engines, bu...

Make sure everything you want to gimbal is parented to the gimbal transform

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:27 PM

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Ahhh, is that it?

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narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:29 PM

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serene abyss Make sure everything you want to gimbal is parented to the gimbal transform

Could I just put the thrustTransform as a child of the gimbal? If I did that would it move the plume around and affect the direction of thrust?

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serene abyss Sep 29, 2023, 8:30 PM

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thrust transform has to be parented to gimbal transform

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:31 PM

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serene abyss thrust transform has to be parented to gimbal transform

Like this (other than IDK why I've got a second Plume object in there)?

serene abyss Sep 29, 2023, 8:32 PM

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Yeah

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Remeber to parent the models u want to move as well

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:35 PM

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I actually don't want any of the meshes to move. The gimballing is driven by magnetic force on the plume, not by tilting the nozzle.

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Behold! Ike!

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With more than 10K left in the tank!

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 8:48 PM

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pffff Ike, that's easy... I wanna see Eve 😆

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:48 PM

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LOL! Yeah, I can land this puppy on Eve! No problem! Here, let me attach some 'chutes...

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tbh, I think this is my first KSP2 Ike landing... Dang that surface is nuts!

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I think I completely lucked out with where I happened to set down

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 8:51 PM

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and those are still ion engines, right? I didn't think you'd add such high thrust ion engines

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:52 PM

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These are the some of the highest thrust ion engines in the game. I've used the exact same thrust, Isp, and weight as Nertea in NFP

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Granted, mine are much prettier, but functionally the same

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Also, I'm cheating a bit by using Xenon instead of Lithium

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 8:54 PM

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~~near~~ far future 🙂

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:55 PM

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From an Isp stand point they aren't even future

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 8:55 PM

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they look quite nice

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:55 PM

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But the Kerbalized thrust is very far...

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 8:56 PM

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I mean the thrust, yes. I'm not versed in ion engines but 47 kN seems a lot

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but yeah, go for it!

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:56 PM

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It is. Basically all the ion engines in the game, including stock, are about 1000x high in terms of thrust.

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Its at least partly for playability. Who wants to wait for days to achive an orbital maneuver?

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But the side effect is using them on landers 🙂

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 8:58 PM

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Sure, it makes sense to kerbalize them (not in RO though). Seeing them on landers looks a bit much though 😄

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 8:58 PM

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LOL, true.

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In all the time I played KSP1, I never once flew an ion engine. I took one look at the low (!) thrust and walked away. Now I'm a believer!

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Granted, you need a staggering amount of EC, but other than that

odd crescent Sep 29, 2023, 9:00 PM

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for low mass probes they can be handy, even with miniscule thrust

narrow gate Sep 29, 2023, 9:01 PM

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Gonna take another shot at gimbaling this critter.

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Gimbal and plume are working! I'm gonna ship the next update...

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Oops... Not so fast. Plume works, but it's located a bit wrong now...

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Still, this is getting way better!

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Oopsie...

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narrow gate Sep 30, 2023, 8:08 PM

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The KSP1 analog to my crazy 8-part probe in KSP2

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It has about 1/2 the delta-v. The tank must be a lot heavier or I've got the recipe wrong for fuel consumption... Could be both, really.

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TWR seems similar in general. Here's the Mun

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This is close to what I recall for Duna

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Soo... the engine thrust is not out of line with what KSP1 has, but the goofy KSP2 setup I have is OP on fuel economy when using Xenon.

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The reactor needs 800 kW of cooling. Adding three 250 kW panels plus three more 50 kW panels (for 900 total) seems about right, and it's still a reasonably compact beast. This drops the Duna TWR to 2.95, which is still plenty, so the real difference isn't thrust or TWR, but gas in the tank. I'm certain I can solve this as I migrate the MPD engines to use Lithium.

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My guess is that if I got this thing into LKO in KSP1, I'd have an easy time zipping around the Mun and Minmus, and could likely plan a trip to Duna with at least a landing on Ike.

narrow gate Oct 1, 2023, 8:12 PM

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I think the positions for the nodes might be slightly messed up, but otherwise I'm happy with the looks of this tank.

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Hmm... Need to either shorten the bolts on the engine, or thicken up the base on the tank frame...

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But, honestly, I think this looks pretty stinking good!

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@eager light One think I learned today is this: Don't paint your bolt alphas on the Nail layer, pain them on the edge layer! They look waaaay better there. Also, of course, boost the texture resolution to 4096. None of the this crappy 2048 junk here.

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I've got two more Li tanks waiting to get painted and brought in. That should go fairly quickly now (I hope). I'm going to need to redo my test argon tank too. Alternate fuels will be here soon!

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narrow gate Oct 1, 2023, 9:22 PM

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Second lithium tank done-ish

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Gonna need to tweak the node locations slightly so these don't have weird unfortunate gaps between them, but otherwise I'm pleased with it. the 1x4 config needs to take another pass through blender though. There's something in there Substance Painter doesn't like.

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Need to tweak some icons, too. Also probably need to figure out how to add a new subcategory to the parts picker. Gonna need a Lithium group and an Argon group I expect.

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Hmmm... my wet mass is coming out wrong. It should be 0.1367 for this part. I must be configuring that wrong. It frankly should not be posible to have a part mass (when fully loaded) where it's less than the mass of the resource it's packing.

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@mellow patrol, do you happen to know if it's possible to add a new part subcategory? Like under tanks to have a category for Lithium and one for Argon. Same Q for engines of course.

mellow patrol Oct 1, 2023, 9:31 PM

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I don't think it's (easily) doable currently, but I'm pretty sure it was something Lux was planning on adding to his OAB Extensions mod

eager light Oct 1, 2023, 10:14 PM

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narrow gate <@105462692306796544> One think I learned today is this: Don't paint your bolt a...

interesting! good to know!

narrow gate Oct 1, 2023, 10:23 PM

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Mass issue solved!

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Turns out it wasn't in my mod, but in an incorrect definition I'd placed into the Community Resources patch for base fuels.

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Still need to fix up those icons to be more consistent in size within a given size category. Also need to update the flavor text as they're currently the same for both of these parts.

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:10 AM

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OK, I think these dang lithium tanks are just about ready.

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mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 6:40 AM

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narrow gate <@366972069440913418>, do you happen to know if it's possible to add a new part ...

It's pretty easy, set your part's family to something custom like 1234-Lithium
For the localization the entry will be VAB/PartsPicker/Lithium

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The number in front of the family name is the priority, set it to something between the stock families around your custom one

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 10:46 AM

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Oh really? Dang, that is simple! Thanks! I'll give that a shot!

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 12:57 PM

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Hmmm... Maybe I didn't do it correctly. Either that or I'm missing a step. I got categories where I expected them to show up, but there are no lables on the categories

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So, following the Xenon tanks (which were in family 070-Xenon), there's family 072-Argon and 074-Lithium. The groups show up, but no helpful lables for the groups. Also, apparenly I goofed an icon... That at least is an easy fix.

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Behold! Radial Lithium tanks in the XS size!

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No to fix that icon and add some localization text for it...

mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:01 PM

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narrow gate Hmmm... Maybe I didn't do it correctly. Either that or I'm missing a step. I got...

Let me check the localization entry for my mod real quick

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:10 PM

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Icon and part localization fixed. Is localization also where things like part categories go? If so, I totally missed that.

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mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:12 PM

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Did you add a VAB/PartsPicker/Lithium entry in your loc file?

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:12 PM

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Nope. What would one look like?

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All I've got in there are parts like this
,,, Parts/Title/spark_0v_radial_lithium,Text,,LTR-XS-05 Parts/Subtitle/spark_0v_radial_lithium,Text,,Radial Lithium Tank - 0.05t capacity Parts/Manufacturer/spark_0v_radial_lithium,Text,,Tanks for the Memories Parts/Description/spark_0v_radial_lithium,Text,,"A clever radial variant of the popular LT-XS-05, this 'tank' hold ingots of metallic Lithium provided they've been properly rotated by 90 degrees. Does not float."

mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:13 PM

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VAB/PartsPicker/Lithium,Text,,Lithium

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:14 PM

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How does that work when I've got Lithium as a sub category in both engines and tanks? Does one entry cover both?

mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:14 PM

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Hmmm good question

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Can you test it?

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:15 PM

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I will. I was wondering if the first Lithium would actually be the family name like 074-Lithium

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Hmmm... Nope. Neither that nor VAB/PartsPicker/074-Lithium,Text,,Lithium worked. Same for Argon vs. 072-Argon, and for engines with 144-Lithium

mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:24 PM

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Hmmm that's strange, lemme check if I changed anything in KLSS for that

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:24 PM

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I'm definitely getting groups in the right places with the right things. In my part data it's as simple as this

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mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:25 PM

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Do you get any error in the logs?

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:27 PM

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I'm getting a bunch of this, but these are not new

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[WRN 09:21:39.066] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Lithium
[WRN 09:21:41.127] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Lithium
[WRN 09:23:27.411] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Argon
[WRN 09:23:29.371] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Argon
[WRN 09:23:29.819] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Lithium
[WRN 09:23:30.195] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Lithium
[WRN 09:23:30.442] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Argon
[WRN 09:23:31.000] (TryToLocalizeVABToolTipString) failed to localize --> VAB/Tooltip/Argon

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Those are the only places Lithium or Argon turn up in the KSP log

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Neither of those strings show up at all in the BIE log

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I am getting an error on PatchManager, but I believe it's unrelated

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[Error :Space Warp] Unable to check version for PatchManager due to error System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at SpaceWarp.SpaceWarpPlugin.CheckJsonVersion (System.String guid, System.String version, System.String json) [0x00007] in <8c8ff3f07aa1436ead441791e8bacb2f>:0
at SpaceWarp.SpaceWarpPlugin+<CheckVersion>d__29.MoveNext () [0x000cf] in <8c8ff3f07aa1436ead441791e8bacb2f>:0

coral orbit Oct 2, 2023, 1:29 PM

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You can ignore that error

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on PM

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:29 PM

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Thought so, thanks for confirming!

mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:30 PM

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Ah my "Life Support" family does not work anymore too

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:31 PM

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Bummer... possibly related I'd guess

mint dew Oct 2, 2023, 1:33 PM

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Ok you have to put the whole family name in the loc key

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Like VAB/PartsPicker/0505-LifeSupport,Text,,Life Support

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Try putting all 4 digits in the name of your families

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(0074, etc..)

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 1:36 PM

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Doh! I left off a '0'. Easy!

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Yay!

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nocturne ginkgo Oct 2, 2023, 7:16 PM

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narrow gate Icon and part localization fixed. Is localization also where things like part ca...

Are there any constraints for the part icons? I can't get mine to show ingame

narrow gate Oct 2, 2023, 9:04 PM

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nocturne ginkgo Are there any constraints for the part icons? I can't get mine to show ingame

How are you making them? Are you using IsaQuest's blender too? Are you making the resulting PNG have a file name of <partname>_icon.png? Are you bringing the PNG into your Unity project's Assets folder? Are you converting the PNG from Texture Type = Default to Sprite (2D and UI)? Are you making the result an addressable? Are you editing the Addressable Name to remove the leading "Assets/" part?

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Here you can see one of my icons in my Assets folder (happens to be spark_0v_inline_lithium_1x1_icon.png). The "spark_0v_inline_lithium_1x1" part of the filename corresponds to the part it's for, and you can see I've set the Texture Type to Sprite. I've also ticked the box to make it an addressable, and changed the Addressable Name so it's just the filename.

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See here how the name on the left is just the filename, but on the right it shows the path to the file

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I think that's about all there is to it. Using IsaQuest's blender tool makes it just dead easy to get a perfect PNG, and after that it's not hard at all.

nocturne ginkgo Oct 2, 2023, 9:54 PM

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Thank you for this detailed response.

Using IsaQuest's blender tool? Not yet, right now I'm just trying to set up any image
Making the resulting PNG have a file name of <partname>_icon.png? 🚫 No, I didn't know the file had to be PNG and had that particular file name
Bringing the PNG into your Unity project's Assets folder? checkmark
Converting the PNG from Texture Type = Default to Sprite (2D and UI)?
Making the result an addressable?
Editing the Addressable Name to remove the leading "Assets/" part?

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My reference is this tutorial by LuxStice but it's apparently lacking the info about the file format : https://luxstice.notion.site/Tutorial-My-First-Part-5f0cf456d7f4443d8c92658c7cc58314#e606857d8e4a4244a32df071f071437d

Pedro's Notion on Notion

Tutorial: My First Part

Lets start simple shall we, the goals of this section are to add a part in game that:

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I was simply changing the addressable name to be <partname>_icon.

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 1:14 AM

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nocturne ginkgo My reference is this tutorial by LuxStice but it's apparently lacking the info a...

Hmmm.. Come to think of it, I don't know if it has to be a PNG. That part may not be true, I've just always done it that way. The file name business is a must AFAIK. I believe it does need the suffix, too. So if your part is my_mod_spiffy_part, and your icon is a png, then the icon file name would be my_mod_spiffy_part_icon.png and the addressable name would be the same as the whole filename including suffix. At least that's what I've been doing and it works. It might work with other formats like jpg, to - I honestly don't know as I've not tried other formats.

mellow patrol Oct 3, 2023, 1:15 AM

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it definitely needs to be named part_name_icon.png

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 1:15 AM

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You will also need a localization file to get all the text into the part picker for your part

mellow patrol Oct 3, 2023, 1:17 AM

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this is the method that gets the part icon asset name in-game

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 1:18 AM

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Thanks Munix!

nocturne ginkgo Oct 3, 2023, 5:59 AM

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narrow gate You will also need a localization file to get all the text into the part picker ...

Yep that part is working 🙂

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 10:25 AM

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Hmmm... @serene abyss / @chilly minnow, I'm wondering if I may have found a way to have throttle affect Isp. Poking around in the Module_Engine it seems there are tooltips that will pop up for some fields offering explanations. There are a couple that look like they might be promising. I'll need this when I get to making a VASIMR.

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So, Atmo Curve to set Isp based on pressure, and then possibly a combo of Thrust Curve and ThrottleIsoCurveArmStrength?

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Or, maybe it's just the ThrottleIsoCurveArmStrength? I'm not really sure what Thrust Curve does... From the tooltip on ThrottleIsoCurveArmStrength I suspect that it's a scaling factor for Isp based on throttle, so full throttle could (for example) cut the Isp by some factor, but I'm not sure how to make lower throttle increase the Isp. It seems like it's only offering to scale it in one direction.

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Oh, wait - I think it's simpler. Doh! Just define Isp for something like 1/2 throttle, and then give a number larger than 1 as the first value in ThrottleIspCurveAtmStrength and a number less than one for the final with a linear slope between them. It may actually be simple! I'll try this and see.

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 11:24 AM

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Ignoring the name and flavor text, this is an attempt at a VASIMR engine. The part picker info doesn't show my effort as having worked out...

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Maybe this is just a limitation of what the part picker info will display? In this case, I based the values on the middle weight VASIMR in KSP1, so that the rated thrust and Isp are as shown above, but it should also have a throttle variable aspect where at min throttle it gives 5500s and at max it gives 2500s. These are supposed to also correspond to thrust of 41.7 and 15 respectively. I've clearly goofed that up.

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That said, the engine to the left of it in the parts picker is working out as a middle weight MPD thruster (other than the flavor text needs to be updated)

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I'll need to make some more Lithium tanks in Size SM, and probably make the next reactor in TNO for this to be useful.

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Or... you can do this for power!

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3x 400 EC/s will take care of the needs, with an extra 200 EC/s to spare.

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:37 PM

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OK, flavor text and parameters set for MPD-3. Just need the new mesh/paint/etc.

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And the MPD-2 is basically ready now...

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mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:38 PM

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narrow gate

Does it use 3GW of electricity???

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:38 PM

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Yes, it does

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The same as in KSP1

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It's also an ion engine with 242 kN of thrust...

mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:39 PM

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That 3 full-size modern nuclear reactors husK

mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:39 PM

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narrow gate It's also an ion engine with 242 kN of thrust...

Well fair enough x)

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:39 PM

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I think it may need bigger power cables...

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Wait a sec. It's only 3000 EC/s, that's just 3 MW

mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:40 PM

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It probably needs a power supply / power conversion system the size of a rocket x)

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:40 PM

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it's not GW.

mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:40 PM

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narrow gate Wait a sec. It's only 3000 EC/s, that's just 3 MW

Ah I didn't see the decimal point vs thousands marker x)

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That's more reasonable x)

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:41 PM

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LOL

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I can see how that would confuse things..

mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:41 PM

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I'm not used to the English thousands marker x)

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:42 PM

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Yeah, comma's where I expects points confuses me too

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Though there is this minor issue...

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I've defined the engine to use XenonEC as its propellant mixture, and the parts picker shows it needing Xenon, but when I give it a Xenon tank it shows 0 Delta-V

mint dew Oct 3, 2023, 12:45 PM

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Do you also need EC on the craft ?

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:45 PM

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The little brother to this engine was working previously...

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 12:46 PM

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mint dew Do you also need EC on the craft ?

You do, but that doesn't seem to be mattering...

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It works in space... Though the emissivity is completely whacked

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I think I know what I did wrong on the emissivity. Also, I do need to make a plume for this thing, but as for why it's not showing the right Delta V (or any non-zero delta V) in the VAB is unclear to me.

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Yep, as I suspected. I forgot to drop the emissivity map into the material... Easy fix. Still need to do the plume.

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No plume yet, but the emissivity is OK now - could be brighter...

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gritty pendant Oct 3, 2023, 3:51 PM

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narrow gate Maybe this is just a limitation of what the part picker info will display? In th...

from what I have experimented upon on VASIMR, you can decrease ISP by increasing throttle with the current options BUT it will decrease the thrust at the same time

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since VASIMR was not working, I renamed it helicon engine, I can give you my model if you want to include it into your mod

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 5:10 PM

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Nice looking part! Who’s properties did you find you needed to adjust to get the effect you’ve described?

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I’m hopeful that perhaps this can be realized with some sort of slider in Patchouli where the slider (or whatever) controls a part setting from low isp/higher thrust to high isp/lower thrust.

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Or maybe it’s just the engine throttle and at one end you’ve got this Isp and at the other it’s some other lower Isp. I’m not sure yet what it should be. One knob or two

gritty pendant Oct 3, 2023, 5:56 PM

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you make the Throttle ISP curve go from 1 to 0.1
throttle ISP curve Atm stays at 1 since it's a vacuum engine not really made for atmosphere

nocturne ginkgo Oct 3, 2023, 9:16 PM

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narrow gate You do, but that doesn't seem to be mattering...

Did you check "Is Resource Crossfeed" for the fuel tank?

narrow gate Oct 3, 2023, 9:55 PM

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nocturne ginkgo Did you check "Is Resource Crossfeed" for the fuel tank?

It's a stock xenon fuel tank, so that shouldn't be it. Also, when I take the craft to the launchpad it shows a real Delta-v, and then when I take it to space it also shows a real Delta-v, plus it works in space - so the problem is presumably something to do with being in the VAB.

narrow gate Oct 4, 2023, 11:52 AM

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Hmmm... Here's the MPD-2 with working in-VAB Delta V

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And here's the MPD-3 (sorry, it's just a scaled up clone of MPD-2 for now), also with working in-VAB Delta-V

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I have no idea what was wrong before, other than this is with the larger stock xenon tank and before it was the smaller stock tank...

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It's not the tank...

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So strange...

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Everything seems to be working fine on the MPD-2.

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And the plume works OK on MPD-3, but I'm not getting any emissivity. I did bake emissivity, and I did assign the emissivity texture to the material, and I did set the material in the part, so I'm not sure what's wrong here.

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narrow gate Oct 4, 2023, 1:08 PM

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emisivity texture looks OK

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It's set in the unity material

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Alpha is set as transparency - same for the other textures that need this too

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Appears to be set in the Module Engine correctly

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narrow gate Oct 5, 2023, 10:46 AM

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@serene abyss, I'm getting everything to work on this new engine except the emissive. I'm not sure where I might have gone wrong, and have done a compare with a similar engine that does work but haven't found the issue yet. What am I not looking at here? Use emissive is checked, I'm pointing to the same material I painted it with, which does have emissive in it. The emissive curve is just a simple linear from 0 to 1 - in fact to make this part I started with a part that was working, duplicated it, and then changed the mesh and a few properties. What am I missing?

serene abyss Oct 5, 2023, 11:07 AM

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Can you show your entire module engine

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Or at least the whole bottom part of it where the emission stuff is

narrow gate Oct 5, 2023, 11:13 AM

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This one is more it I think

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More going from bottom to top if you need it

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I think that's all of it

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serene abyss Oct 5, 2023, 11:22 AM

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Ill have to look at it when i get home

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Wait

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Can you try in the material

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Set Min to 0 and max to 1?

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Maybe its just not getting higher than 0.005

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Under time of day

narrow gate Oct 5, 2023, 11:23 AM

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OK, I'm trying that now. Definitely worth a shot!

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Though on the other engines which do work they're set to -0.005 and +0.005 respectively.

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Nope, that had no discernable effect, but I seem to have a whack paintjob inside the nozzle.. Looks good elsewhere though

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I'll take a fresh UV unwrap through SP and redo this... again. It shouldn't look like that inside the nozzle I think. Need to get to work. I'll be back at this tonight though. IT's so weird. All the other engines are working fine but not this one.

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Well, not this one or it's brother at the same size without the built in radiator fins... So two out of nine engines are misbehaving on emissive...

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SP shows this for the emission mask currently

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Hang on, the weird effect inside the nozzle is from the lights! How is this even possible?

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That's an issue for sure, but I'm not certain what might be causing it. Best guess is something in blender. Maybe I deleted a face I didn't think would matter since it can't be seen and then the light is somehow leaking inside the part?

serene abyss Oct 5, 2023, 11:54 AM

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I think its not really possible to fix that

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I think its pretty much guaranteed that light will leak through

narrow gate Oct 5, 2023, 12:25 PM

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Fixed! Sort of... Those built in radiators are getting waaaay to hot. And they get hot fast. Also cool down too fast.

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The root cause was either a minor glitch in the material name or a failure to apply overrides and resave the JSON. I'm not sure which, but one or more of these was involved. I changed the name of the material in Unity, then changed the name of the assigned emissive material in the engine data, then applied overrides and resaved the JSON and now it works!

serene abyss Oct 5, 2023, 12:28 PM

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Cool

narrow gate Oct 5, 2023, 12:28 PM

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I'll need to mess around some more with this before it's finished, but at least I've got the emissive working. The plume is starting in the wrong place, too - but that's a different issue

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I'm not sure if there is a solution that would allow me to have the emissive for the inside of the nozzle to start and stop as it does and also allow the built in radiators to ramp up and back down more slowly. Do you know of a way to do that? It might not be possible.

mint dew Oct 5, 2023, 2:37 PM

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narrow gate I'm not sure if there is a solution that would allow me to have the emissive for...

You might be able to add a dummy ResourceConverter to your engine to use its emission system (very janky solution)

narrow gate Oct 5, 2023, 10:53 PM

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This is not entirely bad - though I still need to fix the plume

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Considering that the engine processes 3 MW of power and is only about 70% efficient, the radiators ought to be even hotter...

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It would be nice if I could tie the emissivity to the throttle, but I don't see how.

narrow gate Oct 6, 2023, 12:15 PM

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Trying to deicide which one I like better... I'm leaning toward the version with the built in radiators, but those probably need more work.

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I think I may have tuned down the radiators a tad much here. Frankly, they're silly. Unless the engine is 99+% efficient, it should have a prodidgious amount of waste heat. I'm using cheat mode here to deal with the EC consumption. The Size M version of the MPD shown here chews up 3MW of power. Assuming it/s 70% efficient that leaves nearly 1MW of cooling needed just for equilibrium.

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Maybe these are super-duper radiators?

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Maybe They're just vestigial until thermo comes along, but even then its probably better to remove them since the emission is tied to throttle in an on-off way.

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So far I've been unable to get the emission to ramp with throttle, it's just either on or off. And the ramp up/ramp down time is stuck with the same for the emission inside the nozzle.

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I think I'll go with the radiator version, although I'd like to maybe improve the texturing on them. I think I'll go back to having the edges radiate as well too. This version it's only the radiator panel faces that emit.

nocturne ginkgo Oct 6, 2023, 12:33 PM

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Yeah the radiator version looks cooler (no pun intended)

#Stellar Plasma-Assisted Rocket Kinetics (SPARK)