Stellar Plasma-Assisted Rocket Kinetics (SPARK) | KSP2 Redux | Page 2

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 6:15 PM

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And if they know that its easier to star on your own

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Or did u mean just making the plume not the shader?

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If so, yeah thats easy

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 6:15 PM

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I mean, either

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if there's a way to set up the shader so that the plumes are easily customizable, that'd be even better

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though obviously the best solution would be something like Waterfall/LFO

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 6:19 PM

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mellow patrol if there's a way to set up the shader so that the plumes are easily customizable...

Oh no yeah, its just like the paintable shaders

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You can make a ton of variables and people play with them

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Paintable one has only a few meaningful ones but the current plumes shader has like 20+

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And the vollumetric will have even mor

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 6:20 PM

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oh nice, can't wait!

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I guess I gotta get my modeling game up so that I can make some engines to utilize them 😆

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 6:21 PM

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Lmao i mean u can make real plumes or a pack like that

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Also, other than methalox and hydrogen, all other engines are pretty simple modelwise

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 6:22 PM

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I wouldn't mind trying my hand at something like a linear aerospike

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lux

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though that'd be a bit of a challenge for the plumes

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since there would have to be like 20 tiny plumes that interact nicely to make one large one at the far end

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 6:58 PM

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mellow patrol since there would have to be like 20 tiny plumes that interact nicely to make on...

Not really i mean

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The 20 small ones are all the same

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So they can all have the same plume

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And then you focus on the big one

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Also the small ones can be just 1 mesh

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And the big one like 6/7

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 7:03 PM

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How big should a 30kg tank of Xenon be? The "small" radial tanks are supposedly 0.03t = 30 kg. They're way bigger than my little torus.

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 8:07 PM

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narrow gate How big should a 30kg tank of Xenon be? The "small" radial tanks are supposedly ...

Ksp is 0.625 from the original

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:09 PM

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narrow gate How big should a 30kg tank of Xenon be? The "small" radial tanks are supposedly ...

30 kg of dry mass or wet mass?

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COPVs like these should generally be relatively light

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and you can estimate the density of xenon in the game from the dimensions of the stock tanks and the difference between wet mass and dry mass

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 8:13 PM

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mellow patrol 30 kg of dry mass or wet mass?

Ksp tanks are all wt mass

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:14 PM

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I mean, yeah, but you can just set the fuel to 0 and see the mass

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so I wasn't sure

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but yeah, from the JSON file I can see the dry mass of the tank is 3.75 kg

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and it holds 30 kg of xenon

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 8:22 PM

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That gives me the idea to add the possibility to change/add things to the menu that appears when u hover a part

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Maybe that belongs to LOABE

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But as a default/“show-that-its-possible” ill add the dry mass to all tanks

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:23 PM

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sounds like a good idea!

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:24 PM

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Hey, I'm having issues getting my localization and icon to show up

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Also, I see this in the log

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 8:24 PM

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Probsbly check the partName if its correct

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Oh thats a diffrent icon!

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Munix can u link the icon table

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?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:26 PM

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WTH Clyde you jack ass

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WTH is going on? I can't just copy and paste without freeking Cyde getting in the way and being a total jerk

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Is anything I'm sending getting through or is freaking Clyde blocking everything now?

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:31 PM

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narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:31 PM

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LOL bizare!

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:31 PM

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btw I imported the stock tank model into 3DS Max and estimated the internal volume to be ~0.03 m^3, so with the mass being 30 kg, the density would be around 1000 kg/m^3 (and Wikipedia is telling me that the density of xenon is ~6 kg/m^3 at standard temperature and pressure, and ~2900 kg/m^3 when liquid, so 1000 kg/m^3 is probably a believable value for the compressed gas)

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:33 PM

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Good to know!

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Have I possibly put my part icon in the wrong place? The guide said to put it in the Assets folder, and that's right where the JSON is.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:33 PM

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and the dry mass for your tank should probably be slightly larger than the stock 3.75 kg, since it has more surface area

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:34 PM

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:34 PM

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what's the addressable name of it?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:35 PM

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Well, that was probably it. I never clicked the addressible check box for it.

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It's checked now, but maybe I need to loose the leading Asset?

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:36 PM

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yeah, and also probably the png extension

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since Lux's docs only say "partName_icon"

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:36 PM

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:37 PM

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yeah, you can try this way, and if it doesn't work, you can try again with .png

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I'm not sure about this step, since I haven't done this yet myself

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:39 PM

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narrow gate Also, I see this in the log

oh yeah and the Staging Icon Asset Address should be one from this list: https://wiki.spacewarp.org/wiki/Staging_Icon_Asset_Address

Staging Icon Asset Address

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so Staging-Engines/Staging-ICO-Xenons.png in your case

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:39 PM

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:40 PM

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oh I'm blind

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narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:40 PM

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:40 PM

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it says what the name needs to be

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SPT100_icon.png

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:40 PM

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OK, easy fix. But still no joy on the localizations.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:43 PM

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you have it in SPARK/localizations/filename.csv right?

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can I see the file?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:46 PM

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However still no luck on the part icon

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:46 PM

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did you set the asset type to sprite in Unity?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:47 PM

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narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:47 PM

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mellow patrol did you set the asset type to sprite in Unity?

I did not.

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Where is the asset type set in unity?

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:48 PM

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and then remember to click Apply

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:49 PM

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narrow gate

could you just send the file?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:49 PM

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📎 english.csv

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I stole the one from SORRY and modified it.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:50 PM

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one issue I see is this: Parts/Manufacturer/SPT100,Text,,Stellar Plasma-Assisted Rocket Kinetics, inc.

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you have a comma inside the text in the right column

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so you need to put the text into quotation marks

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since the comma has a special meaning in CSV

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(delimiting columns)

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not sure if that's the issue, but it's the only thing that I see is wrong

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:53 PM

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Icon works!

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:53 PM

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awesome

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:53 PM

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It looks like some sort of innertube based pool toy, but it works!

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Localization is still not working. I'll look in the logs for more clues.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:54 PM

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narrow gate

oh I just noticed

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like i said earlier, the folder needs to be called "localizations", in plural

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there are a lot of places (including Lux's site) that have it incorrectly as "localization"

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 8:56 PM

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mellow patrol there are a lot of places (including Lux's site) that have it incorrectly as "lo...

I though i put it right 😭😭

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:56 PM

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sadly not lmao

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but you're not the first nor the last tbh

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SpaceWarp docs said "localization" for so long

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:57 PM

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Works now!

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:57 PM

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and there you go!

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a part

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and even better, an engine!

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:57 PM

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Need to make it shorter....

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 8:58 PM

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does it fit if you press shift?

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if so, that's fine

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even the stock part descriptions don't fit on the half-pane layout

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:58 PM

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I wonder if it actually produces thrust? I mean, sure the plume is in stealtyh mode, but does it actually propel?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 8:59 PM

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mellow patrol even the stock part descriptions don't fit on the half-pane layout

It does, though I see some typos. But of course fixing it is dead easy now!

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:00 PM

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nice!

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:00 PM

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I think I see how KSP2 is working out fuel consumption rate. You give it Isp and thrust and it sorts out the consumption rate!

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:00 PM

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yeah, that should be it

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:00 PM

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So, in that case stealing the number for EC from Dawn was probably the right thing to do

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:00 PM

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it's really exciting finally seeing some more modded engines (other than SORRY)

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:01 PM

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And my little engine needs a nearly perfect 5 EC/s!

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:01 PM

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mellow patrol SpaceWarp docs said "localization" for so long

Should we maybe add a warning??

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:01 PM

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A warning that there are more engines? For this little thing that I still need to re-model and then actually paint?

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:02 PM

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chilly minnow Should we maybe add a warning??

I mean, do people actually use the SW docs anyway? lmao

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I'd really like to see some sort of visitor statistics

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because I think most people make their parts with the help of your videos and guide

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:02 PM

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I did! I think we should still be coalescing the best guidance we can. There will be mroe and more folks showing up who want to do some parts moding

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

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the SW docs are pretty outdated to be honest

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but nobody likes writing documentation

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nooooooooo

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

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True.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:04 PM

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I don't mind structuring my code so that it's as self-explanatory as possible, and adding doc comments to public APIs and all that, but writing out actual documents with descriptions of classes and methods, and guides on how to use them? No thank you munley

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:04 PM

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mellow patrol I mean, do people actually use the SW docs anyway? lmao

No i meant in the logs

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:05 PM

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hm that's a good point

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I was thinking the other way around

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let's just enable both

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:05 PM

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Just like, “you might have missed this”

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:05 PM

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"localization" and "localizations"

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lmao

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:05 PM

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mellow patrol let's just enable both

Would that work? Lmao i think it uses cheeses loading

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:06 PM

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technically we could just add a second call to LoadLocalizationFromFolder

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it's kinda nasty though

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there definitely should be just one standard way, but I think we chose the wrong one

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:08 PM

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Lets move to #🔴space-warp

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:14 PM

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Hey, I'm wondering if my scaling is wrong in unity? Also, I just went to attack an SPT-100 to the bottom of a small Xenon tank and it wanted to by default put it facing the wrong way.

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Doe something that should be 0.3125 diameter, on a size small tank, does that not look too small?

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:16 PM

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That seems the mm to m thing

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On unity

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On your mesh file

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You can set the import scale

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:16 PM

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small size tank as in the "SM" size?

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:17 PM

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mellow patrol small size tank as in the "SM" size?

Either way looks way too small

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:17 PM

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the engine should fit 4x across the 1.25 (SM) tank

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so it seems alright

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at least when I measure the diameter of the tank and the diameter of the engine on my screen

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the tank is ~4x larger than the engine

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which is correct

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:18 PM

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There it is on a size XS tank.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:19 PM

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that does indeed look right

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:19 PM

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So it's OK

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:19 PM

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yeah

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it's just a really tiny engine

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:19 PM

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Oh ok its suposed to be that small

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Well i would turn it into smth else

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:19 PM

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do we have a 0.625 (XS) engine mount?

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I think not right?

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because that would fit pretty nicely in 4x symmetry

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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Like a 9 engine into XD

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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Look! A Mini Tie Fighter!

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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with some large solar panels

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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LXS

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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Like the poodle

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:20 PM

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heh that's great

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:21 PM

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It's got everything it needs but some science parts, and maybe a radio...

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:21 PM

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and you're even correctly using solar panels and ion engines!

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Darth Vader would be proud

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:21 PM

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Im gona remodel the engine covers

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So i could make a 0.625 one

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:21 PM

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chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:22 PM

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Also im gonna make a skirt one

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:22 PM

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I'm gonna take this to space and see if it can actually change it's orbit!

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Houston, we have a problem...

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It fell apart as soon as it hit orbit. Possibly because I lazy orbited my way up there?

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:26 PM

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Could be

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Launch it on ground

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:26 PM

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Tried it again, and it was stable for a little while, then litterally wiggled itself apart

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chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:27 PM

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Did u turn the engine on?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:27 PM

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By pure chance it pops me into orbit < 20 Km from the only other craft I have in orbit

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I didn't even get the solar panels extended...

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:27 PM

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I would try just launching it and seeing what happens

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:27 PM

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I'm gonna try it again

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What? And not cheat? How can the maiden voyage not involve cheating?!

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WTF!!!!

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Have you ever seen this!?

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That's a freaking Mainsail on full power at liftoff here

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And no what? It levitates?

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chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:38 PM

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Seems like

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Mods that mess with lift off bug it

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Do it manually

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Specially if you have modded engine

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:38 PM

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In between taking those videos for a while it reached a state of equilibrium and was just hovering, then next thing I know the maisail is just gone

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Nope same effect without using K2D2

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:40 PM

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Heh

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Show me ur attachment settings

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The way nodes ones

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:41 PM

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chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:41 PM

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Size and visual size at 1

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:42 PM

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OK, I was literally copying the Dawn with those, but sure. I'll change em. Why would those make it pogo?

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:42 PM

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Shouldnt actually

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Its wierd

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Actually

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Do smth

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:43 PM

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I remember I had something similar happen with my Super Heavy, remember? lmao

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it lifted off fine, and then started dropping like a second or two later

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:43 PM

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Check if the dawn had a reinforced joint module

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Some parts do others dont its so wierd

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:45 PM

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you probably shouldn't be (publicly) sharing this here, even though it's just a single part definition JSON

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it still technically counts as redistributing of game assets

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thanks!

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:46 PM

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Deleted

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OK, what exactly should I be looking for in that file?

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:46 PM

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I'll take a quick look at the joint

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:47 PM

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It doesnt

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:47 PM

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not a multijoint

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:47 PM

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Its so wierd

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:47 PM

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I guess it doesn't need it because it's so small?

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:47 PM

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My engine is more powerful than a Mainsail!

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Not in a good way , but I can keep that thing chained to the ground it appears

chilly minnow Aug 20, 2023, 9:48 PM

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mellow patrol I guess it doesn't need it because it's so small?

Its more so about how much the part move sideways

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Like, gimbaling engines have a lot of torque sideways

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:49 PM

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My engine has no gimbal. Though it's at least theoretically possible to do thrust vectoring on a HET

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Hey I found out what happened to the mainsail... When the first stage runs out of fuel the whole thing falls 20 or 30' to the ground and bang mainsail gone. After that it's just hovering in space exactly like a brick wouldn't

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No thrust, just hover...

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 9:53 PM

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that's... interesting

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 9:54 PM

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It's doing the same thing with a Dawn in place of the SPT-100

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So it's not my part

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Actually... the Dawn is ... gone

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That's the top of the second stage there... No 3rd stage probe at all. It's like it was totally blown away. Missions of voices cried out in pain, and were silenced.

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That's gotta hurt!

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Can ya see the solar panels? Darth is trapped in the top of the second stage!

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Closed the game and reopened to get find this

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It's like orbiting venus with the protomolecule down there...

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:02 PM

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another day, another ~~slay~~ bug ™️

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:02 PM

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I'm gonna try a fresh clean campaign.

odd crescent Aug 20, 2023, 10:03 PM

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Protomolecule builders have entered the chat...

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:09 PM

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Nope. A fewsh campaign does not fix it. Completely fresh buiolt from scratch rocket too

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:10 PM

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is your game just stuck like this now?

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husK

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you could try disabling your mod and testing without it

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but it'd be weird if it managed to screw up the whole game this way

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:10 PM

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No, it would be powerful!

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Well, powerfully weird, but still... powerful!

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How can a codless mod have an effect like this?

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:11 PM

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no idea

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:14 PM

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It might be my mod...

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mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:15 PM

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that doesn't seem like it

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I think those always happen

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:16 PM

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@mellow patrol Did you know, it's not possible to diable a codeless mod?

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I can do this

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and then quick and restart to get this

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Seriously. It's not possible to diaable SPARK. You see, SPARK is like a firmware virus... Once it's in, it's in - and you can only remove it by flashing your BepInEx/plugins folder

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See?

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That's me changing swinfo.json to swinfo.json.bak in the SPARK folder

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:25 PM

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uhh

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:25 PM

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narrow gate <@366972069440913418> Did you know, it's not possible to diable a codeless mod?

@coral orbit

eager light Aug 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

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📎 english.csv

coral orbit Aug 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

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mellow patrol <@299685147220115457>

H-huh‽

eager light Aug 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

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@narrow gate this is how you setup your csv that goes in localisations.

coral orbit Aug 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

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I thought I checked the disabled mods against the codeless mod id

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

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I am happy to report it is not my mod.

coral orbit Aug 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

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Hmm, It'll likely be fixed in 1.5

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1.5 has a complete rewrite of the mod loading stuff

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

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I regret to report I have no clue what causes this as I just got a pogoing launch vehicle with a Dawn on the probe and SPARK not loaded

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:30 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/dying-monkey-dying-gif-13123180

Tenor

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how

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as a last resort I would try to temporarily move out/rename the winhttp.dll file in your KSP 2 folder

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:30 PM

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Yes! How!

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:30 PM

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that will disable BepInEx and by extension all mods

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to test if it still happens without mods

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:31 PM

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I'll need to rebuild the dang rocket... I was using Kesa solar panels

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It's mods.

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I'll work out which one(s)

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:37 PM

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yeah, best to just do a binary search

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:38 PM

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Binary searches are hard with mod dependecies.

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:38 PM

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eh, there aren't that many

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:38 PM

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My guess is it's Kesa, as that's the only other part mod I've got in this game

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It's Kesa - specifically if you've got the DSPF-S1 solar panels.

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I was able to launch a rocket with stock solar panels, and Kesa loaded as a mod, but when I reverted and attacked the Kesa panels I was using I see pogoing

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:44 PM

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interesting

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:44 PM

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Not sure about other Kesa parts, but those are bonkers

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 10:45 PM

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narrow gate I was able to launch a rocket with stock solar panels, and Kesa loaded as a mod,...

@broken raptor you should probably know about that, the DSPF-S1 solar panels seem to cause this: #1141807690264367135 message

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 10:47 PM

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Not just the DSPF-S1's, but also the smaller DFSP-S2... Which is interesting! Why is one a DSPF and the other DFSP? They both should be DFSP - Deployable Flat Solar Panel

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The Deployable curved ones do it, too.

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And the DSPF-L12 (which might also need to be the DFSP-L12?)

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But not the non-deployable ones! At least not the FSP-XS1

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Also not the CSP-XS1, or the CSP-SM.

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So, it's just the deployable ones that cause the issue.

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 11:19 PM

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Made it to space... Finally!

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Not sure I'm makeing any thrust at all...

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Maybe I am!

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Timewarp is, of course, utterly useless.., but it seems that with the mighty SPT-100 turned on and at full thrust near the PE, the AP is in fact rising!

mellow patrol Aug 20, 2023, 11:24 PM

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it does indeed seem so

narrow gate Aug 20, 2023, 11:25 PM

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So... I need a plume! And I need to remodel this thing to be lower poly... And I need to do a materials painting... A few things, and then I'll work on the next few engines. Those should go much quicker with the process sorted out.

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I may very well put in an Epstein drive just for kicks, but I'd need to figure out how to make a nozzle bell. That, at least, might be able to use an existing LFO plume as a surogate. It would also give me an excellent reason to go back and re-watch the Expanse - you know, for research purposes...

narrow gate Aug 21, 2023, 3:35 AM

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@chilly minnow what does it take to add an engine shroud for when an engine has something attached on the bottom node? It’s just another mesh that get’s switched on, or what?

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Also, since my little thruster is apparently working I’d like to work on a plume. Is that something I can configure using LFO?

odd crescent Aug 21, 2023, 11:45 AM

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ME says thrust is 0. Can you try increasing number of decimal digits? Click on the gear icon, click on increase digit buttons. 5 digits are max at the moment

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And it shows thrust in kN, which is weird cause it should switch to N for small numbers.

narrow gate Aug 21, 2023, 12:09 PM

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odd crescent And it shows thrust in kN, which is weird cause it should switch to N for small ...

The thrust should be 0.1 kN for that little engine. It's odd since the Ap was definitely rising and not merely oscilating.

odd crescent Aug 21, 2023, 12:34 PM

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Just noticed that dv and TWR are also reporting 0. I could try taking a look at what the game is showing for those numbers, later in the evening.

narrow gate Aug 21, 2023, 8:56 PM

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Here's what I get with a stock Dawn engine on the same craft.

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I'm gonna relaunch with my SPT-100 and double check this with my current minimal set of mods

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Hang on, what's this!?

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chilly minnow Aug 21, 2023, 9:02 PM

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engine error

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well actually, module error

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does it looklike that on the oab?

narrow gate Aug 21, 2023, 9:02 PM

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I've got an SPT-100 in the stack, but it's not in the stack

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It does not. It looks like this

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Granted, there's no shroud... But the stack looks OK

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Actually, there is a shroud, but it's transparent aluminum...

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Also massless aluminum... Very very thin...

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However ME is not showing the stage info for Stage 3...

eager light Aug 22, 2023, 9:46 AM

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It's nice to come into here and be like "ah yes, i feel your pain."

coral orbit Aug 22, 2023, 10:37 AM

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narrow gate However ME is not showing the stage info for Stage 3...

Its an electric engine w/ no charge unless it has sun right?

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In that case ... its default delta v is zero?

chilly minnow Aug 22, 2023, 10:39 AM

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coral orbit In that case ... its default delta v is zero?

no, iirc it says the dV but nothing happens when thorttled

odd crescent Aug 22, 2023, 11:19 AM

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coral orbit In that case ... its default delta v is zero?

It uses electricity, but it still must use propellant as fuel. There is no going around Newton's 3rd law. Well, unless it's a solar sail... or if it's magic.

coral orbit Aug 22, 2023, 11:19 AM

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odd crescent It uses electricity, but it still must use propellant as fuel. There is no going...

Ah, I thought this was a solar sail mod for a second, thats my bad

odd crescent Aug 22, 2023, 11:29 AM

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I can't help here, sorry. ME isn't doing any calculations for dv and thrust. All that it's doing is displaying data that the game spits out as stage info. I would assume it's something to do with what and how modules are set for the part, but I have little experience with part modules so could be way off.

narrow gate Aug 22, 2023, 10:07 PM

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I assume this is some kind of goof on my part with the Part Core Data or Module_Engine config.

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The craft shown above has a battery and solar panels. When it's on the launch pad it would start with full charge and the engine isn't draining any of that when it's in a deactivated state. There's a tank of Xenon in there right above the engine, plus the engine has its own internal tank of Xenon. So there should be no shortage of fuel or EC when on the pad. Here's a quick test with it mated to an even larger Xenon tank (PB-x750 with 0.7t) and a freaking KR4-P3 Nuclear Reactor that's enabled. There should be EC from the launch clamps to, I suspect. In the VAB the stage info is showing blank on Delta V (not 0, blank like it's null).

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If I slap a Dwan on the same rig it shows 16,990 m/s delta V

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chilly minnow Aug 22, 2023, 10:14 PM

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your engine is not consuming any fuel

narrow gate Aug 22, 2023, 10:14 PM

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Another clue is that with the Dawn, the part info shows thrust limiter slider and an independent throttle switch, btu with SPT-100 we don't get that.

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chilly minnow Aug 22, 2023, 10:15 PM

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                  "engineType": "Electric",
                  "propellant": {
                    "mixtureName": "XenonEC",

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these should be your configs on the Module_Engine

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XenonEC is the "compound resource" (they call it recipes) of Xenon+EletricCharge

narrow gate Aug 22, 2023, 10:16 PM

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The Dawn JSON had that as "XenonEC"

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I copied that, was it wrong?

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I'm sure there must be an error in there, and that could be it

chilly minnow Aug 22, 2023, 10:17 PM

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oh you also have XenonEC?

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then its right

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and the engine type is set to electric correct?

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can you send me the JSON for your part pls?

narrow gate Aug 22, 2023, 10:18 PM

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📎 SPT100.json

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I'm doing a diff between my part's JSON and the Dawn now.

chilly minnow Aug 22, 2023, 10:22 PM

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remove the container btw

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i mean

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either keep it and andd Module_ResourceCapacities

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or you remove it

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but im not sure that engines with containers work

narrow gate Aug 22, 2023, 10:22 PM

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That could be it. I may have added the wrong thing then.

narrow gate Aug 23, 2023, 2:26 AM

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I removed the container and aligned as closely as i could with the Dawn, even adding a fairing, but none of that had any effect. The fairing did not appear when I attached something to the bottom node, and I’m still not seeing any Delta V for the stage.

broken raptor Aug 24, 2023, 6:53 AM

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mellow patrol <@1066645941026820166> you should probably know about that, the DSPF-S1 solar pa...

Hy. back from Holidays. I saw this bug, with all deployable solar panels. Normaly, v1.1.10 (pushed 15/08) solves this problem. Is'nt it ?

narrow gate Aug 24, 2023, 9:41 PM

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broken raptor Hy. back from Holidays. I saw this bug, with all deployable solar panels. Normal...

I thought I had all my mods updated and did the test on 8/20, so it would have been after your 8/15 release. I’ll check when I get home

chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 3:09 AM

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@serene abyss can help u with the bakes @narrow gate

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if he's available xD

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 3:11 AM

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He has been helping a lot! I think I got confused again when I re built for the new model. I’m watching some more videos on it now.

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 10:55 AM

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I think I'm getting somewhere with the bakes for this thing. Here's the render - it's not pretty

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The material preview looks nice IMO - which probably means I'm doing something wrong with the Blender settings for render

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Here's the bake for the base color

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Here's metallic

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Here's AO

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Here's paint base (though I've done nothing with it and this is the default out of TexTools) - I'm thinking there may not be aby parts of this model yet that need user painting. If I add some sort of base or standoff that fits it to a 1.25 m base then it would make sense to paint that I think - but that's not in the model yet

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Here's the bake for the object normal

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This kind of engine may get warm or even hot - but should not ever get so hot that it glows. There would be a lot of current flowing through it at moderately high voltage - so the magnetic windings, which are partly visible could get pretty warm, but I don't think I need to worry about emission. If I did, it would be from the windings... Hmmm... Why not then? Here's an emission bake with only the magnetic windings selected.

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Must be doing that wrong... It looks like this in Blender

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A dumb question: How do I persuade TexTools to use the base file name I want for baking images? All my images default to "anode_1_<bakename>". I want them to be "spark_x3_<bakename>"

eager light Aug 25, 2023, 11:38 AM

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these are looking awesome!

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 11:45 AM

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Here's a render with the world light level bumped up to 10

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The real life object I'm modeling is this

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In real life the magnetic circuit (the metalic looking rings) are a ferromagnetic material like iron or steel, but in the actual thing they found that covering those with a boron nitride paint helped to reduce some wear on parts of the engine. Boron Nitride is the ceramic material used in the discharge channels and is white.

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I thought about making those rings out of the same material as the discharge channels, but felt it looks a little bland that way.

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@chilly minnow Here are some plume images from the actual X3. They're green when the fuel is Krypton, but blue when it's Xenon.

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They all have a tight bright central part that is from the central cathode, and then there is a diffuse glow from the channel that they're energizing. In real life they pick which channel(s) to use based on the trust and Isp you want. For the highest Isp I think it's just the outer channel, and for sure it's just one channel. For max thrust they turn them all one. In the game I'll just turn them all on as that's far simpler (and probably better looking).

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chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 11:57 AM

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Thats way better volumetric yeah

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 11:58 AM

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There's a Xenon example.

chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 11:59 AM

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You can still do it with the mesh based tho

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 12:00 PM

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The ion beam is actually diverging slightly, but the illuminated part is following the cathod's electron spray so it looks like it's converging slightly

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Can I make the there be a strong white (or bluish white) glow appear from the dark black anode ring recessed in the discharge channel?

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If there are hotter parts in this they may be the anodes down in the channels and the magnetic windings visible in the perimeter windows. I have no idea why those square windows are there - possibly just for easier inspection of the test asset? In a rill one there would be magnetic windings like those bracketing each discharge channel, so 6 windings for a 3 channel nested thruster like this, but only the outer channel appears to have these windows? No idea why yet.

chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 12:06 PM

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You can do whatever you want with it 🙏

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Literally

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Its pretty much all customizeable

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So yeah you can do that

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 12:08 PM

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OK, a better question then would be "how do I make it look like that?", but I need to get going to work so I'll save that one for later. I need to get the fbx and texture maps into Unity and mess around with the LFO plume tools you made first I think.

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Thank you for those BTW!

chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 12:09 PM

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Well as for mesh based, s sec ill try smth

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And for volumetric, it isnt ready yet but ill see if i can make it for you

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With the current version

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 12:10 PM

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Awesome! These tools you're making are gonna be so useful! Not just for me I'm sure.

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 1:14 PM

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Couldn't resist adding a support base to make this truly a 1.25m part

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Making the lower rim and this simple support arm (arrayed at 60 deg rotation about the origin) is a breeze, but what about the other support arms needed to make this more like a real truss? I'm not certain how to get them rotated into the right direction... I think maybe a two step rotation. I could duplicate the one arm that's rotated 45 degrees about y and then rotate that dup by something about x?

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Yikes! This my array is all messed up for the tilted arm!

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This is better!

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Hmmm... why is my render looking goofy? Why is the lower ring partly black?

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I may need to add some plumbing under this. There is probably a power conditioning unit with some cabling, and there needs to be some plumbing for the propellant going to various points below the anode rings where it would be injected.

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I wonder if the support arms should possibly be something other than steel - something not ferromagnetic. There are some nutso magnetic fields in this which might be "why" it's on a standoff - to keep it further away from the rest of the vessel. Fortunately magnetic field strength falls off at an inverse cube instead of just an inverse square...

pine slate Aug 25, 2023, 1:38 PM

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Looks amazing, cannot wait to use as I have been wanting more ION stuff.

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 1:40 PM

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pine slate Looks amazing, cannot wait to use as I have been wanting more ION stuff.

Thanks! It's really pretty fun to make. The blender part takes me back to working in CAD tools, but I've got a long way to go on the texturing part. Fun stuff!

serene abyss Aug 25, 2023, 1:47 PM

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narrow gate Here's the bake for the object normal

that looks wrong

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Oh object normal

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yeah youre supposed to bake tangent normal

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sorry i should have clarified

broken raptor Aug 25, 2023, 2:59 PM

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mellow patrol <@1066645941026820166> you should probably know about that, the DSPF-S1 solar pa...

Hy munix. Thanks for your support. Could you confirm me that latest update fixes this bug ?

mellow patrol Aug 25, 2023, 3:05 PM

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I personally didn't experience the bug, but I can definitely try to test it now! And then I'm sure when @narrow gate comes back, he'll be glad to test it for you!

broken raptor Aug 25, 2023, 3:10 PM

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no problem. sorry. Schlosrat will test ti later 🙂

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i test on my computer, then no bug. I'm thinking it is solved

mellow patrol Aug 25, 2023, 3:16 PM

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I just tested it out and it worked fine for me, just so you know

broken raptor Aug 25, 2023, 6:01 PM

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Thanks munix. That's a good news. 👍👍👍

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 8:25 PM

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broken raptor Thanks munix. That's a good news. 👍👍👍

Hi Jim, I'm running Kesa 1.1.9. I assume this is the same version I had on 8/20 when I first observed the issue. I'll see if I can reproduce this now.

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I'll be testing with this mod load - SW has an update, but I know that wasn't out when I first observed the issue.

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This is the test vehicle: All stock parts other than the 4x DFSP-S2's.

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Confirmed, bouncy bouncy!

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As I recall in my previous test, this effect was observed with all of your deployable panels, but not with the non-deployable ones.

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Curiously, I see that in CKAN there is a Kesa update! I see 1.1.11 is available, but somehow in SW Mod List Kesa is not reporting as out of date. Maybe that too is fixed in the new version? I'll update rn and re-test.

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chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 8:36 PM

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does it happen w/o the panels?

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 8:37 PM

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I've only seen it happen with the Kesa deployable panels. Stock panels and Kesa non-deployable panels don't do this. I didn't test without any panels, but presumably that would be the same as stock.

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Testing updated now

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Confirmed fixed in 1.1.11!

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mellow patrol Aug 25, 2023, 8:41 PM

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narrow gate Curiously, I see that in CKAN there *is* a Kesa update! I see 1.1.11 is availabl...

that's because the mod has no public (as far as I could find) GH repository and no version_check URL in its swinfo.json

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it's not really a "bug", it's just a lack of an optional feature

narrow gate Aug 25, 2023, 8:43 PM

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@broken raptor You might want to set up a public GH repo and configure your version_check URL. I just assumed you had that and so didn't realize I was running an out of date version of your mod. There could be others in the same boat.

broken raptor Aug 25, 2023, 11:30 PM

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i'm sorry. this is new for me. I have to find how to do this version_check and link that with the github.

chilly minnow Aug 25, 2023, 11:31 PM

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is pretty easy

mellow patrol Aug 25, 2023, 11:31 PM

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it's in your swinfo.json file

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and you have to link to an up-to-date version of the swinfo.json file that you have somewhere online

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most people keep their latest release in their GitHub main branch (and develop in a "dev" branch), and then just link the swinfo.json file from the main branch

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for example, UitkForKsp2:

"version_check": "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jan-bures/UitkForKsp2/main/plugin_template/swinfo.json"

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it needs to be the address to the raw file, not an HTML page

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then what SpaceWarp does is it downloads this file at startup, checks if the version number on GitHub is the same as the currently installed mod version, and if the online version is newer, it lets the user know they can download an update (using the yellow text like SpaceWarp here: #1141807690264367135 message)

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 1:48 AM

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I think this is just about ready for baking and import

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narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 2:15 AM

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@serene abyss do these bakes look OK?

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I did an emission bake to, but it's all black as I have no emissive parts

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Are there any other backs I'd be likely to need? You mentioned metallic smoothness, but TexTools just has Metallic. There is also a glossiness and a sheen, and a roughness. Maybe Rougness is another one I need?

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Is there a way to make it default to PNG each time so I don't have to switch it from Targa, or should I be preferring Targa?

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There's the roughness bake

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 3:27 AM

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@chilly minnow I'm trying to follow your guide for applying textures, and I'm a bit confused about which bakes go where. The baking options I ame aware of in Blender using TexTools are these

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I've created these bakes so far

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I think the _diffuse one may be the right one to use for Albedo, and it seems to be happy there. The _metallic one seems to be quite happy being a Metallic Smoothness map. The _ao one seems to be happy as an Occlusion map, and likewise for the _emission texture. However neither of the ones I've got with "normal" in the name are happy in either the Normals Map or Detail Normals Map.

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chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 3:34 AM

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your normals are wrong btw

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basically

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 3:34 AM

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Of course they are!

chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 3:34 AM

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you almost 99% will use only the tangent

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which u already have

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its just on the wrong spot!

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 3:35 AM

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Does it go on Detail Mask?

chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 3:35 AM

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everything else seems correct tho

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nop

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detail mask is not used

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 3:35 AM

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Poo

chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 3:35 AM

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on the normal map!

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and remove the detail!

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 3:37 AM

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It doesn't seem to like being there

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You did say put the normal_tangent on Normals, right?

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Also, I'm unclear on how to apply this material to everything. I unpacked the prefab (to delete some things I don't need and that weren't in the bakes anyway) and so here's what I've got

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I've still got the old (doesn't work quite right) SPT100, but I've begun a new part which I've cleverly named spark_x3.

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Since it's a model of the X3 Nested Hall Thruster

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I tried dragging the materail onto each part and I've got to wonder if the UV map isn't completely hosed or something cause this is what I get

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Some parts do look metallic, but most are way to dark, and seom are just way wrong

chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 4:23 AM

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narrow gate

thats uv yeah

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just click "fix now"

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on the texture

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:30 AM

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chilly minnow just click "fix now"

Thanks! I wasn't sure if it would be safe to do that or not. That did make it better, but it's still not right. There must be more for me to do

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chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 4:40 AM

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id say ur uv unwrap is wrong

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:40 AM

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I kinda forced it to be what it should be. Not actually using the textures, just the crude built in Unity capability to paint

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chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 4:40 AM

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but not sure

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that works too

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:41 AM

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My UV unwrapping is very possibly wrong. It looked OK, but I honestly put in 0 seams and just used UV Smart Project

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I'll take another crack at that tomorrow. The baking wasn't horribly long at 1024 wiith x2 oversample

chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 4:43 AM

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uv smart project only works with seams afaik

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:43 AM

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The real trick will be to see if I can figure out where I went wrong with this on SPT100 since that had such goofy results - the game not thinking it was really there as an engine.

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I'll put in some seams and then give it another shot.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:44 AM

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chilly minnow uv smart project only works with seams afaik

nope

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:51 AM

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Well, seams might not be necessary, but they might also help it to lay out more compactly. I can also give quixel another shot. Last time I’m not sure what I did wrong but using the material id map didn’t give the results I’d hoped at all.

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Mostly though I’d like to get this to be a functioning engine with a plume, then I can go back and make it prettier

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:30 PM

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Maybe now Unity will be able to color it right? We'll see!

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Nope... I'm still doing something wrong, but I don't know what it is... Some things come trhough OK, and some are just weird. They all got baked one after another using the exact same UV Unwrap, and the FBX file was exported right after that.

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I rebuilt the texture in Unity, and applied it to each object by dragging it onto them in the hierarchy

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@chilly minnow , @serene abyss do my bakes above look OK? I dialed metallic down to 0 for all of them except the metallic bake where they were set back to what they had been (1.0 all cases except for one 0.9 on the actual metallic parts). I used Metallic 0.5 for the anodes and windings in the emissivity map, but it still came out to be all black.

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The weird thing is that some parts look OK while others that are using the exact same materials don't.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:48 PM

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is the pink blue and yellow one your paint map?

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if so you made it wrong, a paint map if done correctly should look white, teal and blue

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:48 PM

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No, that one is a material ID map, I'm not actually useing it in Unity but would need it if I want to take it to quixel

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:49 PM

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ah

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:49 PM

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These are my maps

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I use diffuse for albedo.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:50 PM

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does the metallic map have smoothness data in the alpha channel

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:50 PM

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The normal map has a "fix now" button in the Unity inspector. I just clicked it, but nor real change.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:51 PM

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also you need a paint map

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:51 PM

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The metallic map is straight out of TexTools Metallic bake without any changes. The only thing happening there is that I set my metallic sliders back to what they were

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:52 PM

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set metallic smoothness map to one

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:52 PM

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Like so? Done.

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serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:53 PM

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also yeah you’re gonna need a paint map

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and also to put smoothness info in the alpha channel of your metallic map

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and into the alpha channel of the paint map

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the ksp2 shader requires a paint map i think

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:54 PM

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What if I don't want any parts to be painted? I mean, yeah, I do want that, but what if I'm lazy rn and don't want it rn, can't I skip that?

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Oh

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So I could just take the all black emission map into photoshop and make an all blue (is that the base, right?)

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:55 PM

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Yes

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:55 PM

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In which case I think nothing is paintable, right?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:55 PM

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but remember to put smoothness info in the alpha channel of the paint map and metallic map

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(this is required)

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:56 PM

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How do you do this?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:56 PM

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i dont know how to in photoshop

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but in gimp (maybe this will help since they are similar software) i import my smoothness map, copy it, create a layer mask on the metallic map/paint map, and paste it in

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 4:58 PM

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OK, so the metallic image needs to be layered with the paint map, and I'll need to find a blending method in PS that applies this to the alpha channel. Does that sound about right?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 4:59 PM

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metallic and paint map are separate

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but both need smoothness in alpha

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smoothness map is just inverted roughness

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also can be called glossiness map

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textools can bake it

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:01 PM

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Nuts, I forgot to make that one. I bet I have to go back and horse around with my metallic sliders before making it.

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serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:01 PM

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i dont think that may be needed

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bake glossiness

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:02 PM

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There is both a glossiness and a roughness option.

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Gotcha

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:03 PM

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glossiness is inverted roughness which is the same as smoothness

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:04 PM

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I bake that with the metallic sliders all at 0, right?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:04 PM

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try with normal values

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the metallic thing may only apply to diffuse bake type

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:05 PM

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Baking now

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How does that look for a glossiness?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:11 PM

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Nice

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now use that as an alpha channel for the paint map and metallic map

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this is the biggest reason i dont use blender for texturing anymore

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it just gets so annoying baking things

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:12 PM

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Also, I made this from the TexTools Base Color bake

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:12 PM

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why?

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why not glossiness bake

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:12 PM

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No, hold on. The one above is glossiness. The one i'm about to post isn't. 🙂

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:13 PM

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ah

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:13 PM

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I thought I'd try it out to see if it was useful in the paint layer process. Probably not, but just messing around

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I think one thing I could do is to take the material ID map into PS and do a select and replace based on colors. That might make a paint map moderately easy. I'll think about that.

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Also, I could give Quizel another go. It seems like I've got a good UV unwrap and a good material ID map, so theoretically I could apply materials there. Would that get me bakes that have the alpha channel set correctly?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 5:16 PM

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nope

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only substance can do that

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it has presets for unity shaders and benjee10 made a preset for ksp2 shaders

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 5:19 PM

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gotcha, thanks

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"How do you convert an image to an alpha channel in Photoshop?
Once you have made a selection in Photoshop, you can save it as an alpha channel by navigating to the Channels panel, usually next to the Layers panel. Click on the Save selection as channel button at the bottom of the panel to create a new channel named Alpha 1 which will display your selection as a grayscale image."

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Looks like it should be simple. Bring in two images the same size. Convert one to alpha. Merge down and save.

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Gonna try it now with metallic unmolested and glossiness as alpha

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 6:49 PM

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I may have done this right, the resulting image doesn't look much different to me. That said I'm having a devil of a time making the stupid paint layer. It's probably easier than I think it is, but my photoshop skills are not the best.

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I've got a layer with just red for the accent paint, a layer with green for anthing that get's painted in base or accent, and a layer full of blue. You would think it would be trivial to combine these as they need to be. You'd probably bve right too, but my google-fu is failing me on this and the simple steps are eliuding me.

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 7:59 PM

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OK, I think I've got a paint map now. What a PITA.

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How's this look?

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Maybe?

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I think that's got an alpha channel from the glossiness image, and I think I've done the same with the Metallic

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Neither one really looks different to me with the alpha channel. Here's Metallic without that

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See? Looks the same to me too. Should it look different?

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Here's how I've got those maps configured in Unity

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#

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No effect. None at all. Do I need to reapply the matierial? I've previously applied it to everything, and some things frankly look horrible - like the texture map is tiles across them. In particular the four hexagonal boxes look terrible, All of the veritcal supports in the base look terrible (though the diagonal ones look OK), The outer magnetic circuit looks terrible, and 2 out of 3 of the ceramic dicharge channels look terrible. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It's not like the problems follow particular materials so far as I can tell - though it isn't entirely random either.

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 8:13 PM

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narrow gate How's this look?

Just looking at my paint map I can see it's wrong... It's fixable, but it's wrong. The copper colored parts from the diffuse map should all be blue - no paint allowed.

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That said, I don't really see much point in fixing the paint map. The part of the process where thigns are brought into Unity to make the part works in some ways, but the whole texturing thing is just FUBAR.

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What should be simple, it not merely hard - it's impossible.

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There's nothing wrong with my UV map. It's clearly OK. There's something completely wrong with what Unity is doing with the information I give it.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 8:52 PM

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narrow gate I think that's got an alpha channel from the glossiness image, and I think I've ...

it doesnt have an alpha channel

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some parts should be transparent and have variable opacity

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make sure youre exporting as png with transparency

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:00 PM

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That may be an issue, but I suspect it's a small one relative to some other much larger issue(s). For example, I get the same absolute crap importing it into Quixel

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serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:02 PM

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not sure what could be happening

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apply your modifiers

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:03 PM

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The same crap on the same parts. Perhaps there's an issue with my settings going into TexTools, because the exact same fbx with the same (and more!) textures give the same crappy result of taking the map and wrapping it like some kind wacky wallpaper all over some parts, but then mapping the right parts to the right faces on others. If it were a problem isolated to just some materials, I'd assume that it's an issue with the materials, but the fact that 2 out of three large ceramic parts that should be white are looking like urban camo instead

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:03 PM

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serene abyss apply your modifiers

hahaha! I've applied them so many times it's not funny!

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:03 PM

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hm

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:03 PM

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I've done select all and applied them that way

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:03 PM

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i got one last thing for you to try

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select all your objects

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go to edit mode

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in face mode (3), go to face > triangulate faces

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this will make it harder to edit your model though

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you can convert them back to quads though

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and reexport the fbx

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:05 PM

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Where is triangulate faces?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:05 PM

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you’re in face select mode right?

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:05 PM

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Yes

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serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:05 PM

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next to uv

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there is face

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go to face > triangulate faces

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:06 PM

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Do I need to do a select all first?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:06 PM

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yeah

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dont forget to reexport your fbx

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:07 PM

#

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Look OK?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:07 PM

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yeah

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:07 PM

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Expected?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:07 PM

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Yep

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itll turn all your geometry into triangles

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:07 PM

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OK, re-export and then bake 'em all again?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:08 PM

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so no export issues should happen

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nope no need for rebake

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itll retain the uv map

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so you can keep yhe current textures

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:08 PM

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OK, I made a spark_x3_tri.fbx

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Take that into Unity with the various textures?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:09 PM

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Yeah

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:09 PM

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Except that apparently I've not done the alpha channel correctly.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:09 PM

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yeah

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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No clue how to fix that - I followed a guide online for PS, but if that didn't work, then I'm not sure what went wrong.

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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what are you exporting as?

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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I'll say this though, making the paint map with PS was a bit harder than it should have been..

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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make sure its png with transparency enabled

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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PNG

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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And hide any other layers

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:10 PM

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I do a lot of exports from PS in PNG, always with transparency - but I'll double check that

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:11 PM

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because if theres a solid image behind the paint map layer it will export the unerlying layer’s alpha too

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:11 PM

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Good to know!

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:12 PM

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youll know you did it right if your image has varying levels of transparency

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some oarts are clearly visible others are almost completely transparent

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:15 PM

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I'm getting the exact same wacky crap.

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In Unity

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:15 PM

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hmm

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can you dm me your model and textures?

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itd be easier that way

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:16 PM

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The same goofy wrap of the texture at some goofy scale and orientation around the same beautiful parts (they're beutiful under that goofed up textures - I swear it!)

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The blend is 30 mb, but I can put it on github I think with the proto version of this mod. Which files do you need?

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 9:18 PM

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just blend and textures youre using in unity

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itd save a lot of time

narrow gate Aug 26, 2023, 9:18 PM

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If you're willing to take a look at it I'm more than willing to share it!

serene abyss Aug 26, 2023, 10:21 PM

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@narrow gate i found the problem

#

#

you have 2 uv maps, one is the wrong one, the other is correct

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So to fix this

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go here

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and delete UVMap from each object

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and reexport

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automap is the correct uv

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your uv maps shouldl ook like this on all objects

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Not all actually

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some only have one uv map

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if so lkeave them be

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the ones with automap and UVMap should have UVMap deleted

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that should fix it

chilly minnow Aug 26, 2023, 11:39 PM

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i had that too

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unity (and a lot of other programs) hate more than 1 uv map

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afaik only XBOX360 has native support for more than 2 UV maps

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 12:58 AM

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serene abyss

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This was driving me bonkers!

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Should I go back to the model with the quads? I caved a copy before I dis the triangulat faces.

serene abyss Aug 27, 2023, 1:00 AM

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up to you

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 1:18 AM

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It was such an easy fix, I went back to the quads. Thanks!

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I have no idea how it got like that, but at least know I know what can cause something like that and where to look for it. If I do see something like that again I'll know right away what I need to do.

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 3:42 AM

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Hmmm... What did I do to my part?

#

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It seems to be a fluorescent popsicle now... Possibly grape flavored?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 5:39 AM

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narrow gate

That means there was an error during the part crestion process

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Aka error on the json

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Or on the modules

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 11:34 AM

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chilly minnow That means there was an error during the part crestion process

Ah, good to know! I'm going to scrub my process. One curious thing is that this affected both the previous part I built (SPT100) which is still in SPARK and the X3 shown protruding from the purple push-up popsicle above. Could an error in one impact the build of the whole assembly?

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I'm going to document my process. It's slightly modified from your video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fQg-oMqcH8) based on some things @eager light has told me but is basically the same. I was going to do that anyway to help me as I make more parts in this parts pack , but I will not be surprised if that helps track down whatever I did wrong last night.

YouTube

Pedro Costa

How to create parts for KSP2

ThunderKit Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVAFXPNmBWU

KSP2UnityTools: https://github.com/SpaceWarpDev/KSP2UnityTools/releases/latest

▶ Play video

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 3:05 PM

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@chilly minnow , @eager light, @serene abyss . How does this look for a parts pack production process?

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Oh wait, I left off the whole icon part... I need to add that. I'll update it and post again with that as part of the process.

eager light Aug 27, 2023, 3:14 PM

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I dig it. thats well thought out and flows well for a new person who wants to learn to mod. everything you need to start parts modding really

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 3:30 PM

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Updated with typos fixed, personal info removed, and icon process added.

📎 Parts_Pack_Production_Procedure.docx

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It's as much for a personal check list and reminder for me as I go along as anything else.

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And on to debugging! For some reason, the old part has the new localization info but has now lost it's icon, and the new part has no localization info and also has no icon. Both should have icons... Time to do some log spelunking!

#

#

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I wonder if it could be because I was hasty with the new part and haven't configured its Module_Engine fully so it doesn't even have a thrust curve, etc. Can an issue like that cause other parts to fail to load their icon or a particular part to fail to load its localization?

📎 english.csv

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The new part's localization is nearly the same as the old part... No! Wait! It's much to same! I need to put in a unique name for it. I'll try this and see if it likes it better...

📎 english.csv

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Curiously, that did not fix the issue... On to log spelunking!

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Clue found! And new step info for process... Must convert PNG to Sprite!

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[ERR 11:42:50.371] AssetProvider unable to find asset of type 'UnityEngine.Sprite' and key of 'spark_x3_icon.png'.
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError (object)
KSP.Assets.AssetProvider/<>c__DisplayClass11_01<UnityEngine.Sprite>:<Load>b__1 (UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.AsyncOperations.AsyncOperationHandle1<UnityEngine.Sprite>)
DelegateList1<UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.AsyncOperations.AsyncOperationHandle1<UnityEngine.Sprite>>:Invoke (UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.AsyncOperations.AsyncOperationHandle1<UnityEngine.Sprite>) UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.ResourceManager:Update (single) MonoBehaviourCallbackHooks:Update () [ERR 11:42:50.432] AssetProvider unable to find asset of type 'UnityEngine.Sprite' and key of 'SPT100_icon.png'. UnityEngine.Debug:LogError (object) KSP.Assets.AssetProvider/<>c__DisplayClass11_01<UnityEngine.Sprite>:<Load>b__1 (UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.AsyncOperations.AsyncOperationHandle1<UnityEngine.Sprite>) DelegateList1<UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.AsyncOperations.AsyncOperationHandle1<UnityEngine.Sprite>>:Invoke (UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.AsyncOperations.AsyncOperationHandle1<UnityEngine.Sprite>)
UnityEngine.ResourceManagement.ResourceManager:Update (single)
MonoBehaviourCallbackHooks:Update ()

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Icons work!

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 3:53 PM

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narrow gate And on to debugging! For some reason, the old part has the new localization info...

partName should be the same

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 3:53 PM

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chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 3:53 PM

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theres no more than that

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 3:54 PM

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Ahh! That explains the localization glitch, and more more improvement for the guide doc!

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 4:02 PM

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@narrow gate is your document meant to be missing an example build/load path for addressables?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 4:02 PM

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Not, it is not meant to be that way - good catch! I meant to fix those but got side tracked.

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 4:30 PM

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narrow gate

huh

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have u alredy set

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the fule on it?

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it says methalox infinityt

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 4:35 PM

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chilly minnow it says methalox infinityt

I was being very hasty last night and cleverly thought to myself: "Self! You don't need to configure all these fiddly Module_Engine parameters just to be able to view the part!" Oh how wrong I was...

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 5:14 PM

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chilly minnow huh

I'm getting this error when I try to grab an SPT100 and drag it from the parts picker into the VAB for use (whioch it currently doesn't do and used to do just fine)

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[Error : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack trace:
KSP.Modules.Module_Engine.SetThrustTransforms () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.Modules.Module_Engine.OnInitialize () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.Sim.Definitions.PartBehaviourModule.Init () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPart.FinalizeModules (UnityEngine.GameObject newObject, KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyAvailablePart availablePart) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPart.FinalizeLoad (KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyBuilderEvents events, KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyAvailablePart part) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPartTracker.ManuallyCreatePart (KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyAvailablePart partToCreate, System.Collections.Generic.List1[T] existingModuleData, System.Boolean spawnInHand, System.Boolean isInAssembly, KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyPart referenceCurrent, System.Nullable1[T] guid) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPartTracker.CreatePartAtCursor (KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyAvailablePart partToCreate, KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyPart& part) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyBuilder+ObjectAssemblyBuilderEventsManager.UIBind_SpawnPart (KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyAvailablePart part) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.AssemblyPartsButton.CreatePart () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
UnityEngine.Events.InvokableCall.Invoke () (at <25a85da7c6f04932b86e339dfd12957d>:0)
UnityEngine.Events.UnityEvent.Invoke () (at <25a85da7c6f04932b86e339dfd12957d>:0)
UnityEngine.UI.ButtonExtended.OnPointerClick (UnityEngine.EventSystems.PointerEventData eventData) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
UnityEngine.EventSystems.ExecuteEvents.Execute (UnityEngine.EventSystems.IPointerClickHandler handler, UnityEngine.EventSystems.BaseEventData eventData) (at <56e27d38acd347119ce15709c80233a2>:0)

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UnityEngine.EventSystems.ExecuteEvents.Execute[T] (UnityEngine.GameObject target, UnityEngine.EventSystems.BaseEventData eventData, UnityEngine.EventSystems.ExecuteEvents+EventFunction1[T1] functor) (at <56e27d38acd347119ce15709c80233a2>:0) UnityEngine.EventSystems.ExecuteEvents:Execute(GameObject, BaseEventData, EventFunction1)
ModifiedInputModule:ProcessMousePress(MouseButtonEventData, MouseButton)
ModifiedInputModule:ProcessMouseEvent(Int32)
ModifiedInputModule:ProcessMouseEvent()
ModifiedInputModule:Process()
UnityEngine.EventSystems.EventSystem:Update()

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I removed both the Gimbal and the Generator from the X3, and the Gimbal, Generator and Faring from the SPT100

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 5:17 PM

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narrow gate I was being very hasty last night and cleverly thought to myself: "Self! You don...

oh

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 5:17 PM

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I get a similar error now with the X3, but for a while it was letting me drag in a purple pushup pop

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 5:17 PM

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that explains a lot

#

you have no thrust transforms right?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 5:18 PM

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Where would those be? Are they part of Throttle VFX Manager?

#

#

#

Do I need a Thrust curve?

#

#

I believe the atmosphere curve is controlling Isp

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 5:21 PM

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nop

#

there should be a foldout named thrust transforms

#

on the Module_Engine

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 5:22 PM

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This?

#

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 5:22 PM

#

also not that

#

but

#

just add a empty game objects

#

on your engine

#

and call it

#

thrustTransform

#

and the game should pick it

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 5:23 PM

#

#

On the root part, or some other point?

#

Like this?

#

#

Yay! Engine!

#

#

With like Delta V and everything!

#

Everything but a plume 😦

#

I'm gonna launch this sucker and see what it can do!

#

It will propel me by MAGIC!

#

I kinda like the look of it, too.. Turned out nice! Will be even nicer with a sparkly plume...

#

Hang on... I'm getting a bunch or errors in the log... I knew it was too good to be true! Progress at any rate. This is much further than I was previously!

#

Getting lots of this in my log

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[Error : Unity Log] [General] Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPart.get_SurfaceAttachmentRotationOffset () [0x00000] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPlacementTool.PerformSurfaceOffsetAdjustment (KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyPart target, KSP.OAB.IObjectAssemblyPart current, UnityEngine.Vector3 hitSpot, UnityEngine.Vector3 hitNormal, System.Boolean snapEnabled) [0x001a7] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPlacementTool.SnapSelectionToSurface () [0x00085] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPlacementTool.OnUpdate () [0x0027d] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at (wrapper delegate-invoke) <Module>.invoke_void()
at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyBuilder.OnUpdate (System.Single deltaTime) [0x00093] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.Game.GameInstance.Update () [0x000bf] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0

#

Makes me think I've botched my node attach...

#

Uhhh... I put the srfAttach node right smack dab where the "top" node its. Is that, how do you put it... No Beuno?

#

#

serene abyss Aug 27, 2023, 5:37 PM

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srf attach is set to stack

#

set it to surface

#

so problem is that theres 2 stack nodes in exactly the same spot so the game gets confused probably

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 5:38 PM

#

I think I see the problem, it was this

#

#

Yep!

#

I was being too hasty! And I should also update the guide to catch this sort of thing...

#

OK, things seem to be working with the x3, but now the SPT100 doesn't want to show up in game. I'm getting these errors

#

[Error : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack trace:
KSP.OAB.AssemblyCheckEnginesNecessaryFuels.Check (KSP.OAB.OABSessionInformation sessionInfo) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyEngineerReport.UpdateActiveConcerns (KSP.OAB.OABSessionInformation sessionInfo) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyEngineerReport.UpdateReport (KSP.OAB.OABSessionInformation stats) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.OABSessionInformation.UpdateEngineersReport () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyUIEngineeringReport+<ProcessUpdate>d__19.MoveNext () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <25a85da7c6f04932b86e339dfd12957d>:0)

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 5:57 PM

#

thats ierd

#

spt100 its the old or the new?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 6:29 PM

#

SPT100 is the old one.

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 6:35 PM

#

chilly minnow spt100 its the old or the new?

And it's doing this when I try to pull one from the parts picker in the VAB

#

#

It's invisible now!

#

And giving this error

#

[Error : Unity Log] [General] Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at KSP.Sim.DeltaV.DeltaVEngineInfo..ctor (KSP.Sim.DeltaV.VesselDeltaVComponent inVesselDeltaV, KSP.Modules.Data_Engine inEngine, KSP.Sim.DeltaV.IDeltaVPart part) [0x0004d] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.Sim.DeltaV.VesselDeltaVComponent.UpdateModuleEngines () [0x00084] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.Sim.DeltaV.VesselDeltaVComponent.RunCalculations () [0x00039] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.Sim.DeltaV.VesselDeltaVComponent.CheckDirtyAndRunCalcs () [0x0004f] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.Sim.DeltaV.VesselDeltaVComponent.OnFixedUpdate (System.Double universalTime, System.Double deltaUniversalTime) [0x00000] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyPartTracker.UpdateAssemblyDeltaV (System.Double universalTime, System.Double deltaUniversalTime) [0x00024] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.OAB.ObjectAssemblyBuilder.OnUpdate (System.Single deltaTime) [0x000f5] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0
at KSP.Game.GameInstance.Update () [0x000bf] in <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0

#

Actually, pulling either one gives that error.

#

Though only the SPT100 has a bonus stealth mode (for when you don't want the competitors to see your engine design until it's too late)

#

It seems to be producing thrust now.

#

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 6:53 PM

#

Thrust transforms!

#

I talk about them on the 2nd video

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 6:54 PM

#

Perhaps I should watch the 2nd video? I wonder what else I might learn... 😛

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 6:54 PM

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The 2nd video is all about engines

#

Lmao

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 6:54 PM

#

Which is probably why I'm having so much trouble...

#

Were you saying that volumetric plumes were likely to be better for an engine line this? If so, why?

#

I''m not sure this thing even consumes fuel... It's been burning for a while and has now circularized a lightly less than circular orbit, but the tank is still full.

#

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 6:57 PM

#

16 km/s dv

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 6:57 PM

#

The delta V in the tank is still pegged at 15285, same as when it started.

#

It's added several m/s to the vessal already, shouldn't the tank be going down correspondingly?

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 6:59 PM

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It should, yes

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:00 PM

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Wait... Doh, I've conflated the altitude readout (m) for velocity (m/s) It may have only imparted a fraction of a m/s, which might be why the tank still seems full. I'll let it just keep burning to see if this changes

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It's raised the Pe by a number of meters and is now busy raising the Ap

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I started the burn a bit before the old Pe and it circularized the 100x98km orbit nicely. Now I've got a 100.1 x 100.4 and slowly rising

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:02 PM

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Has dV changed at all?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:03 PM

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Nope

#

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It's powered by magic

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:03 PM

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Lmao

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DO you have infinite fuel on?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:04 PM

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The first orbital speed I saw (or posted) was 2245.8 m/s from ME)

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Now it's 2246.1

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So it's raised the velocity by 0.3 m/s?

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That's approximately correct given it's a nearly circular orbit. And no, I've got no cheats on - except Lazy Orbit Boosted that I used to get in orbit

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Cause I'm lazy that way

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Kind of like this engine

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Boy engines like this one might just get popular once we can do maneuvers under timewarp.

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:07 PM

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Hmmm, can you post the generated part json?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:07 PM

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📎 spark_x3.json

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certainly!

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It's 5 times as powerful as the Dawn

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And both are ludicoursly overpowered vs. reality

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:09 PM

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                  "propellant": {
                    "mixtureName": "XenonEC",
                    "mixtureMultiplier": 1.0,
                    "ignoreForThrustCurve": false,
                    "ingredientOverrides": [
                      {
                        "name": "ElectricCharge",
                        "unitsPerRecipeUnit": 2060100.0,
                        "flowMode": "STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW"
                      }
                    ]
                  },

Whats with the ingredient override?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:09 PM

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The real engine it's modeled on would produce maybe 5 N of thrust, not 1 kN

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:09 PM

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coral orbit ``` "propellant": { "mixtureName": "XenonE...

Dawn had it, so I do too.

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I think this is what lets it consume EC

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In addition to consuming Xenon

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:10 PM

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"resourceSummary": {
  "Consumes": [],
  "Generates": [],
  "Contains": []
},

@chilly minnow said that this does nothing, but I wonder what happens if you put "XenonEC" in the consumes part of this

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:10 PM

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I could try that.

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:11 PM

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Not that I think that is the issue

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It likely isn't, probably some messed up parameter on the module

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:13 PM

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The orbital velocity has gone down, which is just an effect of climing towards the Ap, but still... I think I'd like to let this one run for a few hours and just see what it does to the orbit.

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:13 PM

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coral orbit ```json "resourceSummary": { "Consumes": [], "Generates": [], "Contains": ...

Yeah i mean, it probably uses that for filtering of sorts (like in oab) but functionality i dont think it does

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:13 PM

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chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:13 PM

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Whats ur isp?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:13 PM

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4200

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So, kinda low...

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:13 PM

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You can check on the OAB the fuel usage too

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:14 PM

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There are gridded Ion engines that can get up to around 20k

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:14 PM

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narrow gate

. Ur consuming tons per hour….

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HOUR

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:14 PM

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What does RealISPValue do?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:14 PM

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xD

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:14 PM

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coral orbit What does `RealISPValue` do?

Calculated at runtime

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Its the isp at said thrust level and atm pressure

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I think that either the isp is too high

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Or smth

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Cuz ur consuming tons per hour

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xD

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:16 PM

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coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:16 PM

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"atmosphereCurve": {
  "fCurve": {
    "keys": [
      {
        "time": 0.0,
        "value": 4200.0,
        "inTangent": 0.0,
        "outTangent": 0.0,
        "inWeight": 0.333333343,
        "outWeight": 0.333333343,
        "weightedMode": "None",
        "tangentMode": 136
      },
      {
        "time": 1.0,
        "value": 100.0,
        "inTangent": -1273.98926,
        "outTangent": -1273.98926,
        "inWeight": 0.333333343,
        "outWeight": 0.333333343,
        "weightedMode": "None",
        "tangentMode": 0
      },
      {
        "time": 1.2,
        "value": 0.001,
        "inTangent": 0.0,
        "outTangent": 0.0,
        "inWeight": 0.333333343,
        "outWeight": 0.333333343,
        "weightedMode": "None",
        "tangentMode": 136
      }
    ],
    "length": 3,
    "preWrapMode": "ClampForever",
    "postWrapMode": "ClampForever"
  },
  "_minTime": 3.40282347E+38,
  "_maxTime": -3.40282347E+38
},

This is the ISP curve?

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Try burning under timewarp for a while schloshrat?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:16 PM

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I can't seem to get a good read on the amount of fuel left in the tank, but I thought it was starting around 1 ton?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:17 PM

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coral orbit ```json "atmosphereCurve": { "fCurve": { "keys": [ { "time":...

Yes

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:17 PM

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coral orbit ```json "atmosphereCurve": { "fCurve": { "keys": [ { "time":...

Yep, that's the Isp curve

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I'm at maximum warp (Warp factor 6 at my altitude) and I've now obrited Kerbin many times. The tank has not depleted

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:19 PM

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Alright, try with one tenth the ISP?

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For a test

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:20 PM

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I can do that.

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I love the look of this silly craft.

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coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:27 PM

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If floating point roundoff prevents insanely high ISP engines ... I will scream

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:28 PM

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I think its more so

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:28 PM

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I got a few of these when Lazy orbit put me into orbit

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[Error : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack trace:
KSP.Modules.Module_Drag.GetNodeOrientationInAttachCoords (KSP.Sim.AttachNodeData attachNode) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.Modules.Module_Drag.SetExposedArea () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.Modules.Module_Drag+<RecalculateExposedAreaCoroutine>d__44.MoveNext () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <25a85da7c6f04932b86e339dfd12957d>:0)

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:28 PM

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That it would take years to deplet the tank

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:28 PM

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Commencing burn test now

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:29 PM

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chilly minnow That it would take years to deplet the tank

Only a 100 hours per one ton

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:29 PM

#

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:29 PM

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coral orbit Only a 100 hours per one ton

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more accurately

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:30 PM

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coral orbit Only a 100 hours per one ton

I dont think that 6x warp would be enough xD

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:30 PM

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yeah, but it'd be enough to see a slight depletion

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:30 PM

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Maybe not enough for the ui to show?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:30 PM

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I may have found the problem

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:30 PM

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Oh no

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:30 PM

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coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:31 PM

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I think its the EC override?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:31 PM

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You has not enough batteries

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That should be there tho

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:31 PM

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It appears that although I commanded the thrust to full I might not have ever actually activated the engine... When I activate this one...

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:31 PM

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The default XenonEC recipe is 1:1

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:31 PM

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Yep, it is

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:31 PM

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So you need the override

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:32 PM

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I don't have cheat menu installed...

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:32 PM

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narrow gate It appears that although I commanded the thrust to full I might not have ever ac...

so you might just have been seeing orbital decay?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:32 PM

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coral orbit so you might just have been seeing orbital decay?

Yes! Or orbial raising in this case

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I'm going to reset it back to high Isp and try it again.

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This time with a fully activate engine... Plumes sure are nice to have!

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:33 PM

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Interesting, the dawn engines max thrust is 0.2

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:33 PM

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narrow gate This time with a fully activate engine... Plumes sure are nice to have!

😅

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:33 PM

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Yeah, 0.2kilo Nutons... That's insanely high for Ion

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:34 PM

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The shader is pretty much done as you can see on #1085910413239140416

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:34 PM

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The engine I've modeled IRL produces about 5 N

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The Dawn should produce less than 1

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But things are beefed up for Kerbals...

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:34 PM

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kerbals are just great engineers

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:34 PM

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They truely are!

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:35 PM

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I mean, if you think about it, they have loads of data from all the explosions

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So they know how to not make smth explode

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:36 PM

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They apparently know how to bend laws of physics, too!

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:38 PM

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They use the power of the Kraken to do that, why do you think it gets so angry at people

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:39 PM

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Ahhh! That explains it!

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It was the dreaded Engine activation Bug alrightly...

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Just look at all it puts out now

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If only I could ajust pointing during timewarp...

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There is still possibly this bug issue... And I bneed a plume!

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[Error : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack trace:
KSP.Modules.Module_Drag.GetNodeOrientationInAttachCoords (KSP.Sim.AttachNodeData attachNode) (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.Modules.Module_Drag.SetExposedArea () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
KSP.Modules.Module_Drag+<RecalculateExposedAreaCoroutine>d__44.MoveNext () (at <57799b60a4cd4df8b3c9aec811d65aed>:0)
UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <25a85da7c6f04932b86e339dfd12957d>:0)

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@chilly minnow what do I need to do to make a plume? I mean, really any kind of plume. I don't care how shitty it may look

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:44 PM

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yeah, you are really missing a plume
Gosh, luxes plumes have come a long way since the first version of SORRY

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:45 PM

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Heck, I mioght settle for an indicator light...

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:45 PM

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coral orbit yeah, you are really missing a plume Gosh, luxes plumes have come a long way sin...

First version was… we dont talk about them

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:45 PM

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An Ion engine is kind of like a hyperactive nightlight...

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:45 PM

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chilly minnow First version was… we dont talk about them

transparent cones

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I mean technically a really short really blue plume would work?
Do you have an ion engine shader?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:46 PM

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He will soon!

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:46 PM

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The thing is viewing angles

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:46 PM

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Bur first I need to learn how to make something with his tools

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:47 PM

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Meshbased doesnt wrok well with them, they only look good from the side

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 7:47 PM

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So they have to be volumentric?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:47 PM

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Either that or complex math to know how they look from below

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And above

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Honestly idek where to start

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:49 PM

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chilly minnow Either that or complex math to know how they look from below

How hard can it be? Just write the Looks Great equation, set it equal to 1, and integrate over 4 pi sterradians, amiright?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:51 PM

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narrow gate How hard can it be? Just write the Looks Great equation, set it equal to 1, and ...

😅 oh if it was that simple

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:52 PM

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Seriously, though - maybe we're overcomplicating an Ion engine plume. It shouldn't really be evolving and changing over time. It's sort of either on or off

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:52 PM

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Voluemtric took me 5 days

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3 of those of me bashing my head asking why does the dot product not work

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:52 PM

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narrow gate Seriously, though - maybe we're overcomplicating an Ion engine plume. It shouldn...

When i get home ill build a ion plume and ull see 🙏

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:53 PM

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Here are some samples, though these are "burning" krypton

NASA_NEXT_Ion_thruster.712983main_NEXT_LDT_Thrusterhi-res_full.jpg

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Actuially, the blue one in there is Xenon. My bad

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But I'm thinking it's just a few diffuse cones extending out with a brighter one dead center

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:54 PM

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narrow gate

That thing in the middle looks sexy

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:55 PM

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That's the cathode! It's pretty, but it's not really where the thrust comes from oddly

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:55 PM

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No! In the middle , on the plume

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That paraboilic shape

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:56 PM

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Yes, in the middle. That's the electron stray from the cathode interacting with the plasma coming our of the annular discharge chambers

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:56 PM

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Ah i see

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Well, if you want

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You could make a plume profile

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Basically

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:57 PM

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So there's this faint spray that comes out from the annualr discharge rings diverging at about 3 degrees or so, and then there's a shorter bright spike right in the center

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:57 PM

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Well will be hard to describe

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 7:57 PM

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chilly minnow Well will be hard to describe

Easier done than said?

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 7:57 PM

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narrow gate Easier done than said?

Yup

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Let me try to draw

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The idea here is that this profile weill be rotated 360 degrees

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To make a cylinder

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So the top one would be the ion

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And the bottom one a. Normal plume

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You can use greys to tell “less plume here”

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 8:01 PM

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So the shorter lines at the top are the light emerging from the annular discharge chambers. It will form bright rings. And the the other thing becomes the plume when rotated. I think you may only need to rotate 180 unless you make a half shape.

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 8:02 PM

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I think a half shape would be better as it would have to be mirrored to line up properly

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 8:02 PM

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coral orbit I think a half shape would be better as it would have to be mirrored to line up ...

Yeah, but works either way

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 8:03 PM

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Yep. So what do I need to do!

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 8:03 PM

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narrow gate Yep. So what do I need to do!

I need to make that profiled shader but its easy

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Since it doesnt have any math

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 8:04 PM

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How will the shader respond to increasing the thrust, will it scale out the plume or is it just on or off?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 8:05 PM

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coral orbit How will the shader respond to increasing the thrust, will it scale out the plum...

Oh come on! Who uses an Ion engine at 1/4 impulse? It's full power, baby! Burn, baby, burn!

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 8:05 PM

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Fair point, but the question still stands
What if I make overpowered magic engine that has a plume similar to an ion engine but at full power it might be way too much?

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 8:06 PM

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No, it's a very reasonable question, but (a) I'm a smart ass, and (b) I really don't think many people will want to dial this thrust down.

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That said, in about 30 minutes time I' have changed my nice circular orbit in to a reentry trajectory with an apogee at 141km

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coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 8:07 PM

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Wait until I make a very light lander that can land on a celestial body with this engine

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 8:07 PM

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Extremeli lighy

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I should make an extra line parts mod

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10 grama bateries

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1kg lander

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 8:08 PM

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This engine is 0.35 tons

coral orbit Aug 27, 2023, 8:08 PM

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Very small probe core

narrow gate Aug 27, 2023, 8:08 PM

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If I make it smaller, the thrust is less

chilly minnow Aug 27, 2023, 8:09 PM

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The prob core will be an antenna and a raspberry pi

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No casing as thats too heavy

#Stellar Plasma-Assisted Rocket Kinetics (SPARK)