LFO - Lux's Flames and Ornaments | KSP2 Redux | Page 5

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 11:56 AM

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skimmed through it and it looks pretty much like the same process i did (minus the mach dimonds)

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 11:57 AM

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awesome

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 11:57 AM

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seems to be working 100% perfectly in game

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 11:57 AM

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the most difficult part for me is figuring out how the curve for each of the parameters is supposed to look 😆

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and the scale

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 11:58 AM

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i put the curves on backwards not realising its increasing atmos pressure not decreasing lol

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i wondered why i was getting a vaccumy looking plume than i saw it

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 11:58 AM

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haha yeah

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and another thing that took me a minute to realize was that you can only have a parameter once, two "_Opacity" float params will just mean that the first one won't be considered at all

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so if you want both pressure and throttle triggers for it, they need to be both enabled on the same one

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and that having both of them be set to "Base" also messed up things

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so I made the other one Multiply instead

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:01 PM

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base = constant value ?

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:01 PM

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yep

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:01 PM

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that would do it

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:01 PM

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it just sets the value to the corresponding number

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while add and multiply just modify the base number

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in retrospect it's obvious lol

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:02 PM

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also a slight issue, im noticing the plumes pretty much invisable when seenn from the bottom

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:02 PM

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yeah, that's just a symptom of the plumes being mesh-based

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they only render on the surface of the cylinder

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:02 PM

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ah

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:03 PM

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but there is also a volumetric shader in LFO

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but honestly, I barely have any clue how it works

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:03 PM

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i tried messing with the volumetric shader originally and nothing would show lol

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:03 PM

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Lux added it shortly before leaving, and nobody has actually used it yet I think

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but he was testing it with some of his engines and it seemed to work great

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:04 PM

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welp time to go breaking things and messing around with the volumetric stuffs lol

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:05 PM

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the LFO -> New Volumetric Plume button should get you set up

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:06 PM

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now to find a way to actually make it show somthing instead of being completely blank

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:07 PM

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yeah...

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I know I had it working at some point once

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to some degree

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but I honestly don't remember what I did

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actually I'm kinda seeing something

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it's just very faint

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:09 PM

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same, well kinda same, im just seeing a cylinder blocking out the gridlines

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ooh

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fixed it

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disable custom ztest

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:11 PM

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where's that?

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oh I see

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:11 PM

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might have messed with the density slider before finding that one lol

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:13 PM

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nice

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I think we can work with this

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:15 PM

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oh man its even animated in the prefab viewer

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well at least whenever i click it becomes animated

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or hover over any other ui elements

brittle tendon Dec 31, 2023, 12:17 PM

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yeah, it's basically when the Update method runs in the Editor, I think, which is kinda random

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and then I also know for sure that the Volumetric (Profiled) shader works, that's useful for things like ion engines

final plaza Dec 31, 2023, 12:18 PM

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brittle tendon and then I also know for sure that the Volumetric (Profiled) shader works, that'...

ooooooooh

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:20 PM

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did you succeed in using volumetric plume ? it works for me in unity but not in game

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:21 PM

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hm, any errors in logs?

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:27 PM

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[Error :Lux's Flames and Ornaments] Volumetric was not created! Exception:
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at LFO.Shared.BaseAssetManager.GetMesh (System.String meshName) [0x0001b] in <917217bc43ff4864a6388645c8739a17>:0
at LFO.Patcher.SetupConfig (UnityEngine.GameObject prefab, LFO.Shared.Configs.PlumeConfig config, System.String partName, UnityEngine.Transform tParent, System.Collections.Generic.List`1[KSP.VFX.ThrottleVFXManager+EngineEffect]& effects) [0x0009a] in <9e85df1205274ea6b27afb69de354737>:0

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perhaps a problem with mesh cylinder ?

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:29 PM

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thanks for the report, I'm taking a look at it

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actually would you mind please trying it again with this version? it has the debug files so that line numbers show up in the log

📎 LFO-1.0.0_Debug.zip

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:36 PM

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OK, i try it now

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System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at LFO.Shared.BaseAssetManager.GetMesh (System.String meshName) [0x0000b] in C:\Games\KSP Stuff\KSP 2 Modding\Mods\LFO\src\LFO.Editor\Unity\Packages\lfo.editor\Shared\Services\BaseAssetManager.cs:32
at LFO.Patcher.SetupConfig (UnityEngine.GameObject prefab, LFO.Shared.Configs.PlumeConfig config, System.String partName, UnityEngine.Transform tParent, System.Collections.Generic.List`1[KSP.VFX.ThrottleVFXManager+EngineEffect]& effects) [0x00095] in C:\Games\KSP Stuff\KSP 2 Modding\Mods\LFO\src\LFO\Patcher.cs:136

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:44 PM

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thank you!

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:54 PM

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munix, another feedback. In unity, modifying throttle with group throttle (in LFO throttle Data Master Group) don't affect volumetric plumes

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:55 PM

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brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:55 PM

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storm ore munix, another feedback. In unity, modifying throttle with group throttle (in LF...

that works fine for me

grim bridge Jan 3, 2024, 3:55 PM

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Wait munix, do you have ping sounds on?

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lifesupport

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:55 PM

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I mean

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obviously

grim bridge Jan 3, 2024, 3:56 PM

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Who actually has them turned on?

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:56 PM

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idk, people turn them off?

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lmao

grim bridge Jan 3, 2024, 3:56 PM

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I do

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:56 PM

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I'm only really active here, and if someone is pinging me, I want to know it

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:56 PM

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brittle tendon that works fine for me

ok, i will try again, perhaps i made a mistake

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:57 PM

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did you click Collect children on the master component?

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:57 PM

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yes

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:57 PM

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weird

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:57 PM

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rhhhaaaa... i forgot it, sorry.

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 3:58 PM

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haha it's ok

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 3:58 PM

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no, i did it, i forgot for a second volumetric plume.
i will try again

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i have to leave for few hours. see you soon
and thanks 🙂

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 4:01 PM

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alright, I'll try to fix the issue with volumetric plumes as soon as possible

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 4:18 PM

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well, I tried

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and I have absolutely no clue what's wrong

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other meshes of the same type load fine

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and this one is also loaded from addressables without any issues as far as I can tell

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but Unity goes crazy while trying to find the renderer component on it

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 4:53 PM

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hm ok

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so I fixed the asset, by just reexporting it from Blender with a simpler structure

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but the volumetric plumes don't seem to show up in flight, anyway

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with no exceptions or errors now

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so I'm guessing this will be more complicated to get working than I thought

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also the volumetric (additive) shader seems to be unfinished, since many of the properties don't seem to be doing anything or are broken

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so for now I'd just advise against using it

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but if anyone wants to take a look at making it work, I'll appreciate it

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the latest changes are in the dev branches

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 7:41 PM

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munix, i will look after diner

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thanks for your work

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 7:43 PM

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I'm not even sure if Lux ever tested it in the game

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so it may never have worked

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I only remember tests in the editor

storm ore Jan 3, 2024, 8:01 PM

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on my way tonight 🙂

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i have to reinstall LFO mod for the mesh ?

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 8:03 PM

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you'd have to build it yourself from the newest version in the dev branch, but I can send the zip

brittle tendon Jan 3, 2024, 11:35 PM

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sorry, completely forgot

📎 LFO-fixedmesh.zip

storm ore Jan 4, 2024, 9:26 PM

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Hy munix. I've just tried volumetric plume with your mesh. No more error log but still not working in game. I hope Lux finishes it one day

lean cosmos Jan 7, 2024, 11:21 PM

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Were is lux used to be so active on here

brittle tendon Jan 7, 2024, 11:22 PM

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well

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playing League of Legends apparently

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munley

lean cosmos Jan 7, 2024, 11:23 PM

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nooooooooo

brittle tendon Feb 5, 2024, 11:45 PM

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so, this is obviously pretty bad

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and needs to be fixed

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I'm not 100% sure if this interaction also happens with the stock heating shaders, or just with the one in KSP2 Unity Tools

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but basically the reentry shader is making the plume meshes visible

brittle tendon Mar 6, 2024, 7:45 PM

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oh yeah @weary bobcat that reminds me that Isa did fix the reentry heating issues in the shader

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I still have to commit that file

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the plumes were being affected by the in-game light sources such as the reentry plasma effect, as you can see above

weary bobcat Mar 6, 2024, 7:48 PM

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LESGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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yeah thats pretty fuycking wierd

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wtf

brittle tendon Mar 6, 2024, 7:50 PM

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this was basically the whole fix (the original is on the bottom)

weary bobcat Mar 6, 2024, 8:11 PM

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flashback to UI Toolkit gamma/color

brittle tendon Mar 6, 2024, 8:12 PM

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lmao don't even remind me

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Isa also looked into the issue with plumes being invisible from the top and bottom, and turns out it's caused by something in the plume expansion code

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by comparing it with Waterfall shaders

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#🔴mod-dev message

weary bobcat Mar 6, 2024, 8:15 PM

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i copied it pretty much code for code T-T

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but tbh i then started working on volumetric ones because the top-bottom view never went right w me

brittle tendon Mar 6, 2024, 8:18 PM

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oh yeah that's another thing

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the volumetric additive plume works nicely in the editor but doesn't show up at all in the game

weary bobcat Mar 6, 2024, 8:23 PM

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yeha, i was debugging that before i went MIA

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they worked on an earlier version

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but then i went into performance enhancing

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and bam

weary bobcat Mar 6, 2024, 8:52 PM

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but then i was like, i'll just wait for 2022 cuz that will have a built in Vollumetric solution

eternal robin Mar 6, 2024, 9:40 PM

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brittle tendon Isa also looked into the issue with plumes being invisible from the top and bott...

actually i think it may be an issue with mesh scale

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taller plumes will have this issue even in waterfall

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most waterfall plumes are made of short segments

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and not one large one

brittle tendon Mar 6, 2024, 9:41 PM

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ohh

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interesting

eternal robin Mar 6, 2024, 9:41 PM

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because i scaled a waterfall shader mesh and it had the same problems

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by default lfo's plume meshes are taller and represent the whole plume

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actually nevermind

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still a mystery then

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definetly not that

weary bobcat Mar 7, 2024, 1:16 AM

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eternal robin actually i think it may be an issue with mesh scale

it is an issue with the fresnel effect, the effect that makes it dimmer/disappear near the edge

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the taller the plume, the more likely it is to affect

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since fresnel can be calculated via various modes

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the one used in waterfall and LFO is screen space? i think

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i experimented a lot with it, and there is no good solution

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trying to find the part in code on the waterfall source that says that they are using screen space

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i think its easier to show the nodes in Unity

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but either way

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waterfall counters this by having a closed cylinder (top and bottom have geometry)

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while LFO's meshes is just the cyllinder radius (not caps), so top/bottom have no geometry to draw on

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LFO could support that but i would have to translate the top/bottom calculations that waterfall uses which are pretty... confusing

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the good thing is that plumes, straight from the bottom are pretty much invisible (they are a single color most of the time)

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and you can only see the expansion, so i relied on that

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https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/[email protected]/manual/Fresnel-Effect-Node.html

simpler to just show the wiki...
as you can see, Fresnel takes a Normal Direction and a View Direction
These can be World, Object, Screen and Tangent View Direction.
Waterfall and LFO uses Screen for both.
Object works well but has some caviats...
https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/[email protected]/manual/View-Direction-Node.html

eternal robin Mar 7, 2024, 1:37 AM

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yep

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i didnt dig too deep on how the watefall one worked and what was different

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just some surface level analysis

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taller meshes should be more affected by fresnel because the normals are closer to perpendicular to the view from the top

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i am familiar with fresnel cuz i use it in blender a lot

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all of my shader knowledge comes from blender lol

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no previous programming experience at all

eternal robin Mar 7, 2024, 1:44 AM

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weary bobcat wtf

yeah i was looking at the shader and noticed something that caught my eye

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basically there are sections where the alpha of the material is not 0

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and i noticed u were using the standard pbr shading model

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so partially transparent areas with low emission are affected by light

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so i switched to an unlit shader

weary bobcat Mar 7, 2024, 2:06 AM

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eternal robin so partially transparent areas with low emission are affected by light

lmao thats mb, thx for that!

weary bobcat Mar 7, 2024, 2:07 AM

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eternal robin all of my shader knowledge comes from blender lol

trust me, you can use it pretty well on Unity Shader graph

#LFO - Lux's Flames and Ornaments