Kimberly

[unkempt bridge]

Rely on slide as much as your other tools

Use them all equally

Then you will achieve perfect unpredictability

[uneven crescent]

Anyone got any advise for dealing with character like Ken who can DP like everything on reaction (especially if on modern controls) how do you approach?

[west hill]

You walk up and block. In fighting games we need to read behaviour and see patterns. Do they dp on wakeup? Walk up on oki and shimmy

If they do dp 10 times that's a good thing (for us)

[tall timber]

I see a lot of combos on like supercombo that have many different starters including heavies and mediums. But I guess my confusion is, it feels like the only safe normal in neutral is 5MK, and I use lights to get out of pressure. So I can understand getting combos with those, but When I’m I gonna get to use any of these other moves as combos starters?

[west hill]

All normals (not including uniques) are safe

[tall timber]

Well I don’t mean like safe on block, I mean more so how do I hit them in neutral? I have to be so close I feel like I’d easily get stuffed before that

[west hill]

https://youtu.be/mhkLBaDPuA8

I was going to write an essay. But a footsies video and realising you just described losing to mashers. The answer is block and use your own attacks if they mash they get hit. Or just DI

[tall timber]

Ig my question is though. Unless they are mashing heavies in neutral, doesn’t me running up and blocking just put me in a pressure sequence?

[west hill]

For a simpler explanation let us say you are playing a Kim mirror match. To win neutral and get your offense started you're both trying to hit MK. Then you play footsies, you stay just outside MK range of eachother then you walk within MK distance and back away, they throw MK and miss then you press MK and hit their leg with yours and go into drive cancel and do your combo. Grats you won that round of neutral now you have oki or better the corner nad your opponent has to play your game i.e mixes

Kim doesn't thrive in footsies though what you can do i stead is bait say a fireball and 214 P OD into j.HK for a combo

Ordrive rush from a safe distance into 2MK. Even if they block you're + and can grab, mix, shimmy etc

[rare folio]

Why are there so many good games out now?

RE4

Diablo 4

SF6

[cerulean peak]

cf.MK is the standard whiff punish, right? Are there other options?

[cerulean peak]

labed it out a bit. st.MK has more range than I was giving it credit for. I also think I wrote off light vegabond edge after it got nerfed from the beta. Used to link to st.HP on counter punish, but it still links to st.MP.

[rare folio]

Interesting-thanks!

[cerulean peak]

np!

st.MK combos with Medium Vegabond Edge on counter hit and Heavy Vegabond Edge on counter punish

Likewise Light Vegabond Edge on counter punish will link with st.MP > st.HP chain combo. From here standard options. HK Tatsu best meterless damage, EX Vegabond Edge for supers, EX Run for corner carry.

These are just against Ryu Whiff Punish Bot, so spacing on different characters may be important.

[polar mason]

anyone got either a video or combo list so i can learn kimberly combos? i attempted to find one but most of the combos i find online dont actually seem true, such as mp hp into sprint lk, but sprint lk just wont link

nvm im just ass at inputs it now works

combo just doesnt work in corner

[whole relic]

Two things:

1. I don't know if we are able to, but should we pin Diaphone's Kimberly 101 video? I can see how it could be massively useful for new players and we can just direct them towards pins (as well as other useful guides

2. Any advice on chaining 2lp into any target combo?? it might just be something i need to get locked into muscle memory

[west hill]

Yes it's a good guide and currently very relevant

2Lp>5LP by the time you press standing LP you can confirm into LP>MP>HP>HK target combo and its varients

One gives you oki, another can wall carry and a third one side switches. All are good depending on your situation

[west hill]

HP is better. You can press MK max range and go into HP right after. Learned this from a recent Sajam video. But it works as a hard read. If your opponent keeps poking back after they block MK they'll be out of range to hit you and you'll catch their hitbox for 214P followup combos

I landed it 4 times today, thanks sajam

HP is also your go to throw whiff punish

[cerulean peak]

Oh wow. Thanks! I suppose that also avoids the trap of being committed to Vegabond when they hit a raw DI. I got punked by that more times that I care to admit last night.

[west hill]

If you press HP after MK I think DI catches you. There are no one fits all solutions, otherwise it would be broken

Hence use it if you think they'll throw out say their own MK

[cerulean peak]

Well I'm guessing if I fish for counter with st.MK (because I have slowbro reactions) and am ready to link with HP rather than buffer Vegabond, then I can cancel HP into counter DI.

[west hill]

Is vagabond 246p?

[cerulean peak]

236p

[west hill]

Yeah. Never do that unless it's mid combo. All varients are punishable

Unless your opponent doesn't block I guess lol

[cerulean peak]

Well the idea is like low forward fireball. fish for counter on st.MK xx 236p. On whiff the special doesn't come out, on counter hit it'll cancel. (You're outside of block range)

[west hill]

Also no you can't cancel HP into DI because kims HP is not special cancelable

[cerulean peak]

Kim's HP is cancelable. her HK is not.

[west hill]

Your idea of MK into MK is better if you predict a DI since that is special cancelable

I wish I could get on and test that. I was pretty sure it wasn't but if it is then yeah it's even better against DI

[cerulean peak]

HP canceled in Heavy Vegabond is like by go-to punish.

[west hill]

That is true I just never put 2 and 2 together

Go-to punish for HP is into teleport though. HP into 236P is for normal hit

You'll get max damage that way

[shrewd solar]

Can Kim only tp into the air if she uses an OD versiom

[tall timber]

yes

[shrewd solar]

Thanks

[cursive frigate]

JP isn't a better mixup

[tacit basin]

I'm getting to grips with Kimberly and she seems kinda good?

it feels a bit like she wants to get one jab in, carry to the wall and apply three way pressure

anyone have any good ways to apply crouching MK? outside of close range where LP can connect, I'm not sure what to do other than commit to a bigger button. Fine on block but feels like a waste on hit

[unkempt bridge]

She's mid tier

Not the best but not the worst

[distant sun]

Hallo boyos i have returned, after a bit of time playing juri im craving that rushdown style

But just need some guidance on like getting in. Currently its just 214 OD P and doing an overhead or catching people sleeping with run

Also i keep getting 5lp > 2lp > 236lp and i feel like i can continue from there but hard to say what i should go for

[worn trail]

Yes

I'm pretty sure Kimberly has one of the lowest damage outputs in the game next to sober Jamie

Which isn't actually a problem since we're playing a high mobility mixup character that does death by 1000 cuts

[tidal solar]

Decent on counter hit

[tidal solar]

You get a strike or throw mixup, 2mk, throw or shinmy

Or from 5lp you can go into target combo that gives a knock

[cursive frigate]

High tier

[tacit basin]

yeah but i'm often too far away to do a lot with it. I'm wondering if there's anything you can do about that, or any good followups in such case

[tidal solar]

Off of 236lp I feel like you're always in range, not too sure

[unkempt bridge]

Nope

[tacit basin]

oh, you can get a 236LP?

uh, how do I stop getting stuffed on every approach tool? I teleport, air teleport, dash or whatever but i keep getting smacked out. I hate having to try and bait whiffs to get in

[tall timber]

what should I focus on when playing ranked? Many have said focusing on winning isn't the goal

but it is hard to know how to focus on one thing to get better besides maybe just executing combos better ig? I can flub my target combo or MP-HP into sprint combo

[tacit basin]

These hit confirms are really difficult

[karmic torrent]

well I'd say focus on what you struggle with and what you feel like might lead to you having issues or losing matches

I think having a short but definitive checklist of things that you wanna do is prolly a good starting place to think of

[tall timber]

sprint stop works for whiff punish and I think doing sprint into LK works well as a disjoint to beat out stuff sometimes, not super sure on that but its + on block even if they do block it

[karmic torrent]

forcing whiffs is one of the best ways to approach, bc the more you approach by conventional meant I think the more effective neutral skip options become as long as you're not overly relying on them

[tall timber]

I'm not sure I don't really have any general gameplan with kimberly, I just play people and try to punish a habit if I notice it. I guess I like to do sprint slide as a check to see if they are crouching? other than that I dont really know though

[karmic torrent]

but if you're sitting at fullscreen and then teleport it's way easier to react to and you're more likely to either gain no real ground or just get stuffed for it

[karmic torrent]

I suppose I was thinking more in the sense of like building habits and focusing more on those things rather than just trying to get the dub
like watching for jumps more in scenarios or spaces where you notice people jump often, same with DI, or stuffing drive rushes

but like what exactly do you mean by focus on? do you mean like what are the things to watch for as kimberly and what is the general gameplan you wanna execute?

then that's to bully your way in with tools like 5MK or her MPs until you can start applying strike throw pressure and moving the opponent towards the corner

[tall timber]

I really don't know what the general gameplan I should execute is. In the diaphone guide he just says play random, and on super combo it moreso just gives a list of moves and what to use them for, but generally when I play I just go more for a player vs player. Try and see what their habits are and punishing them.

Right now my strike throw pressure is mixing up throwing or waiting back and sweeping with 2HK if I think they will grab, with some shimmies mixed in. I probably should stop sweeping though since if they DI it is a lot harder to react with DI back cause I can't cancel it. Sometimes I'll just block after a throw if they are mashing

the only combos I really know right now are target combo and doing MP-HP into tatsu or sprint slide

I also don't know if I should only be using teleport in punish, cause when I watch pro vods they dont do it in neutral too much. Maybe in pressure too as a mix up? I like doing teleport against Jamie so they have to be more careful drinking full screen

[tall timber]

I also use MP-HP into tatsu/sprint slide as my DI and DP punish

idk if I should learn other stuff or not

[karmic torrent]

I think for one 5MP or 5HP would be better as shimmy options bc they're less negative after the fact and with at least 5MP you can go into TC -> slide which should probably be regarded as your like bnb imo

bc it has good corner carry and dashing forward twice keeps you in their face for more mixup

if they just DI then those options also happen to be special cancellable for counter DIs

[tall timber]

TC?

[karmic torrent]

Target Combo

5MP~5HP

[tall timber]

what should I be going for in neutral in your opinion?

cause I don't really have a strategy besides doing sprint slide, teleport, and medium kick but I dont even drive rush MK so it is even worse

also in air to airs should I just be doing JHP since it spikes or maybe JHK?

[karmic torrent]

in air to air scenarios generally one of your lights or MP will more reliably win out in my experience at least

as for neutral I don't really know how to describe or distill how to play it in words personally, I think watching replays ingame from players your rank or above and also high level play is really good for getting a grasp on how she wants to navigate neutral and what you want to be doing apart from just those options

bc those are options that work, but are also liable to getting stuffed or punished harshly if you over rely on them

[cursive frigate]

Yes.. she only loses to Guile, Juri and Ken 6-4z the rest of her matchups are 5-5 or in her favor.

[unkempt bridge]

No lol

[cursive frigate]

...let me guess she loses to everyone you cant beat right?

[unkempt bridge]

If I was ranking them A to C, Ken, Cammy, Juri, Luke, Guile would be A and Kimberly would be in B

[cursive frigate]

-_+ there's Top, High , Mid, Low

[karmic torrent]

idk about cammy being same tier as the top tiers really

[unkempt bridge]

In that case, Kimberly is low high or high mid

[cursive frigate]

Also Deejay > Cammy

[karmic torrent]

not to downplay her or anything but she's not at the level they're at

[cursive frigate]

Top 5 is Guile, Juri, Ken, Deejay, Luke. Kim only loses to the first 3

[unkempt bridge]

We'll have our own opinions how the characters are ranked

[cursive frigate]

Gotta ask.. what's your rank since that's the only basis we have.

[unkempt bridge]

Irrelevant

[cursive frigate]

Completely relevant

[unkempt bridge]

Lol

[cursive frigate]

But with that answer I'll just chalk that up with you not having a great understanding of the game.

[unkempt bridge]

Game's been out for less than a month, I don't think there's a definitive tier list and all tier lists are basically one's opinions at the moment

[unkempt bridge]

That's rich coming from you that you think rank = level of understanding of the game, except that it doesn't

[west hill]

Tierlists don't matter unless you're a top tournament player, this goes for most fighting games that aren't horribly balanced. As for sf6, so far it's decently balanced.

As for Kim she has no "bad" matchups. If you're having trouble with a character you probably haven't figured out how to asdjust. For instance Guile, 8/10 times you're going to get flashkicked out of teleport

I don't wanna place Kim in a tierlist yet after release nerfs she's pretty rare. I've even seen pro players not know how to deal with some of Kims shenanigans, we'll have to wait until the playerbase figures her out. So far we get away with a lot of bs

[rare folio]

Does anyone else think Kimberly is unbelievably hot

Like

Insanely?

[cursive frigate]

In the early goings of a game? Yes. Because if you have some game sense, understanding of mechanics, a character's moveset, and play style then yes... Rank would matter .. it's not going to matter 3-5 years into a game with a fully established meta 🙄

That's like saying the top 10 Kims of every region have 0 understanding of the game or matchups .. when CEO is currently the only major tournament that has happened.

[hollow breach]

Facts

[crystal plume]

hey for kim's counter back circle kick canI do I do it crouching? case sometimes it doesn't come out

[tall timber]

should I worry about hit confirming as a beginner?

when should I start thinking about it?

[west hill]

You can practice it by going into practice mode and setting the dummy to random block. Use MK and jumping HK those are good points to start off

[tall timber]

does it seem impossible to everyone at first?

it just seems like an inhuman reaction for me

[west hill]

I feel you. Sf6 is less lenient, but not impossible.

Another good thing to practice is 2LP, 5LP into target combo. That one is easy

It's easier to react to something when you're expecting it. Sounds obvious but I didn't think of that when I started with fighting games. If you're looking for the hit, or Drive Impact, it's easier to react.

[cursive frigate]

@tall timber if you want to practice single hit confirms all of her mediums have a 15f cancel, 5HP has 17f and 2HP has a 20f cancel..

Start with 2HP and hit confirm into MP Vagabond . You can attempt HP Vagabond later on as Late cancel 2HP doesn't combo into HP Vagabond. Set the dummy to random block and do 2HP and buffer 236 if you get a hit, hit MP.. work your way down to the mediums using what works with them to get yourself comfortable

[tall timber]

ok thanks so much! is 2HP a decent poke in neutral?

[tall timber]

as a hit confirm?

[west hill]

After 2LP it will cpmbo into 5LP. By the time 5LP is pressed you can confirm if 2LP hit

It's also safe on block and DI safe

[cursive frigate]

Not really it can be an unorthodox whiff punish against a few long ranged poles though

[tall timber]

so when are you hitting 2HP in a game? or are you just saying its a good move to practice hit confirming with

[cursive frigate]

To practice and it's her pressure tool for + run stop out of drive Rush or using OD runstop

2HP is the easiest with her lights being the hardest and general you just do 1 or 2 lights to confirm etc

Also her run slide is apparently 16f cancel into level 3.. but that is honestly a 13f imo cause 16f would be fairly lenient

[stuck ingot]

is there a simple combo that has comparable dmg to odgrab>run>lk> od214p i can use after od grab, i consistently drop it in online matches and i feel like theres and easier way to get better dmg

[cursive frigate]

@stuck ingot you shouldn't do od Vagabond there. Do 6Hk 8mp MP Vagabond

7 Kim's in CEO top 48 with Jeon having to DQ for Tekken

[unkempt bridge]

[cursive frigate]

Oh look lack of conversation once again....

[unkempt bridge]

Don't need to say anything when you can't accept that opinions can be different

Or if you actually do accept my opinion, leave it as it is

My tier list is different from your tier list

That's it

[cursive frigate]

As well as my experience in the game vs yours hence why I asked.

[unkempt bridge]

We have the same amount of experience if we played since launch... lol

[cursive frigate]

3 betas, multiple online tournaments and 2 offline tournaments with Justin Wong and Kizzie Kay on that experience of yours? @unkempt bridge

[unkempt bridge]

Unfortunately, any experience before the launch of the game doesn't count as the characters were very different to what they are now

Maybe that's why you call Kimberly high tier because she definitely was in the betas lol

[cursive frigate]

I call Kimberly high tier because she is .. I'm not saying she's top tier

And all my tournament experience is currently since launch

[unkempt bridge]

Looking at CEO right now... All the Kimberly players are down there

[cursive frigate]

Yeah 7 Kim's in top 48.. 2 in Top 24 of a 1k man bracket

She's high tier lol.. so is Manon

You going to argue and say she's top tier?

[unkempt bridge]

Where did I ever say she's top tier?

LMFAOOOO

SHE ISNT

I called Kimberly mid tier or B, whichever ranking method you go by

[cursive frigate]

I said Manon there

[unkempt bridge]

Oh

[cursive frigate]

Since 2 are in winners top 24

[unkempt bridge]

I call Manon high tier

[cursive frigate]

But not kim?.. yeeeep that's all I needed to hear.

[unkempt bridge]

I rank by letters, S A B C

Kimberly in B, Manon in A

Neither are S

[cursive frigate]

But my tier list..

S - Luke, Ken, Juri, Deejay, Guile
A - Cammy, Manon, Kimberly JP, Marisa, Chun
B - Sim, Lily, Ryu, Blanka, Honda, Jamie
C - Gief

[unkempt bridge]

Wild list.... but I respect it

[cursive frigate]

Not wild at all

[unkempt bridge]

Are you a pro level player like Tokido?

[cursive frigate]

I'd say I'm high level

[karmic torrent]

this is like, p standard when it comes to most tier lists that have come out since release

[unkempt bridge]

Then I'll take your tier list with the smallest grain of salt

[cursive frigate]

I'll take yours with almost no salt then like I always did.

But if you were going to mention tokidos list and other pro players most had Kim high tier

If you suck at the game that's fine. I've been there plenty with the Zeku discord

[unkempt bridge]

I found a collab tier list of Tokido, Gachikun, and Mago... Kimberly is in B..

You're wild

[cursive frigate]

I said most pro players

Not tokidos

Tokido collab had Honda in A... And almost everyone has him in B because people don't lab anything

Hence why I think your opinion is moot on Kim and playing you would just show there is a massive gap between me and you.

[unkempt bridge]

Of course you say that, you need to feel better than me lol

Egotistic much?

Cheers mate

[cursive frigate]

It's not really an ego

I understand the game and character far more than you do .

There's nothing I need to feel better about.😂

[unkempt bridge]

.... That's called being egotistic lol

[cursive frigate]

Actually no, egotistic would imply I wouldn't acknowledge you or your opinion. I do . I just don't think you're good or value your opinion greatly ... Hence moot.

Even then you decided to laugh and not even discuss a matchup thread on why you think Kim is mid vs high tier

Which even at this point I expect you to say she loses to Honda Sim and Gief even .. when she doesn't lol

[unkempt bridge]

Because it's too early and my opinion is that Kimberly is mid tier at this very moment.

[cursive frigate]

So it's too early but you value tokidos?

[unkempt bridge]

Just because I say that, it doesn't mean you need to argue if you disagree with me

[unkempt bridge]

No, I was using it as a reference to show that she's mid tier in others' tier lists

Not just mine

[cursive frigate]

And we've had week 3 tier lists with her below the top 5

[unkempt bridge]

If you say you can't take me seriously if I put Kimberly in mid tier, then you shouldn't take pro players' tier lists seriously if they have Kimberly in mid tier as well

[cursive frigate]

The only concrete spots have been top 5 and bottom 2-3

Despite people saying Lily is better than what she is being portrayed as.

While Jamie just shifts based on drink level

At least in the other Kim discord we actually discuss matchups and where we think she struggles and doesn't.

Agreement was on Guile, Juri and Ken. Since she goes even with the Deejay and Luke

The only grappler that gives her a headache is Manon just like everyone else when she's medal 3 and up.

She goes even with Cammy and Chun though now that Chuns sweep got nerfed

Capcom still lost their minds in the beta giving Chun a -7 sweep with DR making it -3... That shit was toxic.

[unkempt bridge]

That information is lovely and all, but it doesn't mean you need to make people agree with you when you disagree with a tier list lol

[cursive frigate]

I'm not asking you agreeing I literally wondered why you have her mid and you provided nothing but emotes 🙄

Now shine is gonna have a handful cause Guile vs Kim , and Psycho has a better bracket run chance.

[unkempt bridge]

I don't think I need to give an answer because you'll think it's moot.

You already said it yourself, you think my opinions about Kimberly are moot and therefore anything more I say about Kimberly will be labeled moot as well just because I put her in mid tier.

[cursive frigate]

Opinions can change but not providing much weight to your opinion doesn't exactly help 🤷🏾‍♂️

[unkempt bridge]

Like I said, whatever I say is moot

[cursive frigate]

Okay 🤷🏾‍♂️

[tidal solar]

is there a link to this

[tall timber]

how to people jump quickly after the grab bomb set up?

i cant seem to jump to get air throw

[unkempt bridge]

2369P

[tall timber]

does anyone have any advice on the jamie matchup? always feel lost when I run into them on ranked

[west hill]

Punish drinking in neutral with slide

[smoky cedar]

2 Kimberly in Top 24 of CEO lets gooo

[stuck ingot]

ty i meant od tatsu

[cursive frigate]

Yeah sadly Shine has the harder route with Du

[cursive frigate]

Either way even if Psycho and Shine make it to top 8, they would have to play each other 🙄 whole lot of Kim mirrors this weekend lol

[cursive frigate]

Good now I need psycho to continue on

[smoky cedar]

lets go psycho

[cursive frigate]

All bets on shine

[smoky cedar]

😿

[cursive frigate]

Lost to Juri Twice, bad matchup woes

[cursive frigate]

??

[unkempt bridge]

Neither of them made it

[flat delta]

read everything you said and we gots to agree to disagree, with your points landing as hard as a feather

you's either joking or a joke

[cursive frigate]

So 9th of 1k?

How am I a joke? Lmfao

[unkempt bridge]

Amen, Karma lol

[flat delta]

kimberly in no way in hell is high tier

[cursive frigate]

Yes she is?

[flat delta]

So you's joking?

[cursive frigate]

I'm not joking

[flat delta]

Aight, so then it's the latter

[cursive frigate]

8 Juris in Top 64.. 7 Kim's ...

I'm not a joke either

[flat delta]

I'm not gonna try to argue with you as I seen your "points"

[cursive frigate]

Y'all just fucking suck with the character

[unkempt bridge]

4 Juris in top 8, 0 Kimberlys in top 8.....

[flat delta]

sure bud, that's why in a matter of 36 hours I got from rookie 1 to gold 1 :) and still on a win streak

[cursive frigate]

It's suddenly a joke because 2 Kim's made top 24 one getting 9th and the other getting 17th?

Oh you're gold and dnb is plat

[flat delta]

oh lemme guess, you're masters?

[cursive frigate]

Yep

[flat delta]

that means a lot?

LTG is masters, he's dogshit

hold up

[unkempt bridge]

LMAOOOOOOOO

[cursive frigate]

Ltg matters here?

[cursive frigate]

Ahh an L... Something you've been holding up for a minute lately

[flat delta]

you're comparing ranks like it's something to be bragged currently, put time in, punish players and you can easily get to masters, throw loop them even

ya dawg, fs

[unkempt bridge]

You're Master rank online but I don't see you in the top 8 in offline tourneys....

[cursive frigate]

Okay so let's play then

[flat delta]

word?

[cursive frigate]

Oh really?

Hang on

[unkempt bridge]

Waste of time playing him

[flat delta]

Do I practice DHalsim?

cuz if you play same as LTG, I can just straight spam fireball and you finna bitch about it, no?

[unkempt bridge]

Play someone other than Kimberly so he can't rate your Kimberly

[cursive frigate]

https://www.start.gg/tournament/the-turning-point/event/street-fighter-6/brackets/1383017/2101423/

[unkempt bridge]

[cursive frigate]

He can play random select if he wants same with you

Oh look me getting 5th at an offline event a weekend before Kizzie and Justin went to CEO... And they both didn't make top 8 😂

Damn... So y'all playing me or nah

[unkempt bridge]

Different pool of players lmao

[cursive frigate]

Ahhh excuses

Got it.

[flat delta]

he could rate my kim anyday tbf, it's a modern kim and I'm proud of how much I've advanced wit ha

[cursive frigate]

That's fine

[unkempt bridge]

You made 5th in a smaller pool of players...

Not comparable to one with 1000+ players

200 vs 2000

LMAO

[cursive frigate]

My apologies for not spending 2k to bring myself to Florida

[unkempt bridge]

Aren't you so good that you'll get a money spot?

[cursive frigate]

I have a family lol

[unkempt bridge]

"Ahhh excuses
Got it."

[cursive frigate]

If I'm going to Florida it's a vacation

[unkempt bridge]

[tall timber]

You literally bragged about going from rookie to gold in a few days…

I have no idea how good Kim is but that seems like bragging to me dude

[flat delta]

read up, big man wanted to compare ranks so I compared myself

[cursive frigate]

I asked his rank to see if he actually knew the game and he provided no reasoning to explain why Kim is mid or who she even knows too .

[tall timber]

Lol I did read up, he said you sucked and you said the thing about ranks

[cursive frigate]

The difference is... I can actually explain the character and her matchups

[unkempt bridge]

What is there to brag about if he's in gold lol

[flat delta]

fs I'ma brag if we saying kim's top tier and I can easily grind with other characters but I've gotta punish people and play passive most of the time with kim

every single moveset of kim depends on the enemy not being able to read it

[unkempt bridge]

Man is an online warrior, not an offline warrior

[flat delta]

it's a 50/50 gamble with kim, all the time

[cursive frigate]

No one is bragging but if you're in gold or plat and can't even explain your reason to why you think she's mid... It's not even much of a discussion

[flat delta]

her throw has literally no range

[cursive frigate]

Huuuuuuh?

[unkempt bridge]

There are tier lists that put Kimberly in high tier AND mid tier

[flat delta]

so, if I beat you with any character, not kim ye, does that mean, your opinion matters less?

[unkempt bridge]

I side with mid tier, accept that whether you like it or not

[flat delta]

I've seen mfs put her even in low tier

[unkempt bridge]

Yeah LOL

[cursive frigate]

Everyone has a .8 throw range lol

[flat delta]

currently it doesn't matter but at the same time, she's no where close to high tier

[cursive frigate]

Some have a .9

[flat delta]

look at juri real quick

look at ken real quick

[cursive frigate]

.8

You wanna continue?

[flat delta]

? .8 bro said 😭 juri grabs you half a screen wit her leg swipe

sure dawg

what's yo ign

/cfn

[cursive frigate]

It's .8

Here I'll grab the whole list lol

[flat delta]

sure, pop off

[unkempt bridge]

Not worth the effort

[flat delta]

[unkempt bridge]

I say Kimberly is mid tier and man goes nuclear lmao

Says everything you need to know about him

[flat delta]

I'm still waiting for the cfn keep it a buck LMAO

I wanna test myself and see if this be LTG 2.0

[cursive frigate]

Everyone has .8 but Marisa, Gief, Blanka, Honda

[flat delta]

thems frames or range?

[cursive frigate]

Range

[flat delta]

word then

[cursive frigate]

Gief has 1.02

And they wanted a throw loop 🙄

[flat delta]

anywho, you hopping on or nah?

[cursive frigate]

I'm getting on now

Also you've been staring at my CFN name

[flat delta]

oh, sherlock, I shoulda known

[unkempt bridge]

It's not always obvious

This man lol

[cursive frigate]

Is SF6 your first Fighting game?

[flat delta]

mine? no

[cursive frigate]

If that's the case then I understand I've just been around since SF4 under this name 😂

[flat delta]

LOL

[unkempt bridge]

Me neither

[cursive frigate]

Go ahead and invite

[flat delta]

yo dnb

you hopping on too?

[unkempt bridge]

Nah, I'm in the middle of another game

[flat delta]

aight say less

[unkempt bridge]

Playing Trackmania

Lmk how it goes

[flat delta]

I shall

[tidal solar]

Lmk too

[cursive frigate]

It's 4-0 me currently

[flat delta]

as it should be no? the fact that I'm getting rounds kinda be tough

[unkempt bridge]

You're picking rounds off him?

[flat delta]

[cursive frigate]

2 rounds total

[unkempt bridge]

It should be 0 considering you're master rank and he's in fucking gold

[cursive frigate]

His rounds haven't mattered

[unkempt bridge]

But it means you almost lost those matches

[cursive frigate]

I didn't lol

[unkempt bridge]

I mean no shit? You'd be the laughing stock if you lost

[cursive frigate]

And yet I haven't yet lol

Care to join?

[unkempt bridge]

If he picked rounds off of you, I'd probably win a couple matches

Nah, I'm driving

[cursive frigate]

Doubt it

[flat delta]

😭

bro said doubt it

[unkempt bridge]

I wish I could use gifs

Oh well

[unkempt bridge]

He's egotistic, don't worry about it lol

[cursive frigate]

I wish I could take your money lol

[flat delta]

😭

[cursive frigate]

I don't have an ego

[unkempt bridge]

Still crazy how you lost rounds to someone in gold and using modern controls meaning less damage and more time spent to get a KO

I don't think Karma has gotten rounds off of me 🤔

[cursive frigate]

It's crazy how you're ducking

[flat delta]

yep, 0, nada 😭

[unkempt bridge]

Because I'm playing something else

And you're not worth my time

[cursive frigate]

You aren't mine but you're talking an awful lot lol

[flat delta]

DI's kinda OP no?

[unkempt bridge]

I'm allowed to, aren't I?

[unkempt bridge]

It's just cheap, costs 1 bar

For a 50/50

[flat delta]

I love it

[unkempt bridge]

I see others saying it should cost 2 bars but I'm not 100% sure

[cursive frigate]

2 where?

Cause that would require them to make reversal 1 and safer

[flat delta]

saying

should

kim's OP, barely doing any damage

the only time she deals dmg is corner pressure

[cursive frigate]

I'm doing 2.5-3k off everyone BnB lol

[flat delta]

that's a lot? manon does that with a grab

[cursive frigate]

That's where her damage is .....

[smoky cedar]

stop downplaying kim hahaha

shes good

[flat delta]

right, manon combos ain't it forgot

[cursive frigate]

We downplay to get buffs

[flat delta]

"downplaying"

😭💀

[smoky cedar]

😿

[cursive frigate]

I respect karma though, he's playing

DNB won't

[flat delta]

dude's playing another game

[cursive frigate]

A duck is a duck my man

[flat delta]

I legit have played 20 vs DNB and ain't got a single round

nor a win

so like

[cursive frigate]

And I expect DNB to play lol

I'll give him $50 if he beats me In a ft5

[unkempt bridge]

I don't want money

Especially not from you

[cursive frigate]

Awwww

[flat delta]

20-1 for you

I'ma take a break now cuz this many games wears me off but 😭

ggs dawg

[cursive frigate]

C'mon DNB

[flat delta]

My opinion still hasn't changed

kim is low-mid tier

[cursive frigate]

That's fine keep your opinion

DNB can keep his

There are levels to this clearly

I just don't think DNB is good 🤷🏾‍♂️

[flat delta]

guess I'ma be grinding through my insomnia and tilt to hit plat in another 12 hours

[cursive frigate]

😂

[flat delta]

Ion see levels when it's clear as day the level of a character

not being able to do what you want unless enemy is in the corner spells trouble

[cursive frigate]

You don't play neutral

[unkempt bridge]

There's a difference between understanding a character and using a character

[cursive frigate]

Yeeeep

[unkempt bridge]

Me: high level of understanding but low level of using the character... but believe whatever you want. That's your choice

[cursive frigate]

Then play me?

[unkempt bridge]

Okay then

[flat delta]

yo!?

[unkempt bridge]

I'll boot it up

[flat delta]

Lemme hop back on then, I wanna see this

[flat delta]

there's literally different playstyles of a character, you can play how you want, it's not a said thing, if I see I'm losing, I'm not gonna try to be full agro and get punished

[flat delta]

I take this back, my pc being a POS

[cursive frigate]

I'm just saying you need to Play neutral that a a fundamental part

Your ways of getting in was either DI, Run slide or teleport

Also the moment Kim touches anyone it's corner.. same with Ken and Cammy @flat delta

Sheesh wifi and a yellow card?

Dots pls

[flat delta]

honestly, I despise corner pressure for many reasons, 1) I can't do what you do, since I'm on modern and 2) my brain doesn't comprehend the doing of all that, so I've created a new playstyle for myself

[cursive frigate]

Fair enough, I know loses some vital stuff in modern like others do

Sim is apparently unplayable in modern

Well he left after I got 3 wins lol

[unkempt bridge]

I got better things to do

[cursive frigate]

Ahh okay

[flat delta]

yep

I am learning sim on classic

even tho classic is a pain to me

I'm on keyboard so

[cursive frigate]

Damn what did Sim lose?

[flat delta]

if I keep it a buck with you, I don't truly know

but playing him in modern feels "icky"

[cursive frigate]

😂 fair enough

I just saw people say he's virtually unplayable for what he loses

And Sim is big on having every normal

[cursive frigate]

I actually used to play the classic arcade titles on keyboard. Only one I do now is alpha 3

[flat delta]

you're insane

LMFAO

I can't ever

I need my stick

fuck skullgirls tho

that shit made me break my controller + uninstall the drivers

so now I'm stuck with keyboard, cba installing drivers + getting a new controller

[unkempt bridge]

I'm lower ranked than you... which doesn't mean I don't understand the game

Kimberly is mid tier through and through

[cursive frigate]

@unkempt bridge look you can think of your opinion which is fine, I can have mine and we'll leave it at that

[unkempt bridge]

Why didn't YOU do that?

You started all this

[cursive frigate]

@flat delta I was a teenager then lol, Alpha 3 I still play it on KB cause muscle memory

I tried to get you to converse..... On actually debate on why Kim is mid or high and you didn't want to lol

At some point it just didn't matter because you didn't want to talk about it

We only have this channel in here to honestly discuss any topic Kim related.. kinda bad for anyone trying to learn a charade tbh

[unkempt bridge]

Based on your behavior so far, you'd be combative with anyone, who places a character in any tier that isn't the tier you place them in, and you'd still not respect their opinion in the end

[cursive frigate]

Sheesh pick a top tier Mena 😳

I respect people that actually talk on the topic and will discuss it

If you think I'm combative talk to misokrattz about Zeku 😂 she's far worse

But I'll accept any opinion if you explain your opinion

If I go Kim is mid and say nothing as to why it's not really much of a statement

[tall timber]

Was mena just reading idom a bunch? Is that matchup hard? Both?

[cursive frigate]

I have no idea show Manon vs Luke goes but Imagine she has a hard time dealing with sandblast and Luke's Neutral

Manon's neutral is kinda bad since Luke can challenge a whole lot easier

[unkempt bridge]

If you read up, you can find out why

Here's a hint, JP is a better mixup character than Kimberly despite being a zoner

[cursive frigate]

The lack of being able to post any gif or sticker is killing me 😂

That's false

[unkempt bridge]

Okay, that's your opinion

Leave it at that

[cursive frigate]

JP has more of a tell on his high or low and it's not nearly as safe . Kim's high/low is unreactable but the low is unsafe out of her Run the high is safe and can be made +1... It's also a true string when they are in burnout so it's a guaranteed chip out JP doesn't have that.

Also JP players hate the Kim matchup anyway

Now JPs left right mixup is definitely good but still loses to late reversals since you can just auto correct DP or 2HP and it's wrap for that option

His command grab is a great tool up close to catch someone sleeping but you can react to it and he's eating damage

[unkempt bridge]

You're wasting your breath

[cursive frigate]

Alright 🤷🏾‍♂️

Kim wins that matchup though

[unkempt bridge]

I say something, you either agree or disagree, and leave it at that, that seems like a hard pill for you to swallow lmao

[cursive frigate]

See that's what I mean.. if I explain something I think you're wrong about you won't even accept it.. let alone debate It... I will.

[unkempt bridge]

Who said I don't accept what you say?

You?

[cursive frigate]

You said I'm wasting my breath lol

[unkempt bridge]

And?

[cursive frigate]

Oi . Do you struggle against JP?

[unkempt bridge]

No

But he's a problem in low ranks

[cursive frigate]

Okay then.

[unkempt bridge]

I look at the game as a whole, you only look at the game from a high ranked perspective

Especially since this game is trying to be welcoming for all skill levels

That's why I'm still debating myself whether drive impact should be 1 or 2 bars since it's a scrub killer and can become a bad habit if you're using it often. If it was 2 bars, there's less incentive to use it since you risk eating up your drive meter quicker and therefore opt for other options than relying on drive impact. And it's not just drive impact, I think the whole drive system needs an adjustment since some characters benefit from it differently than others

[cursive frigate]

That's why I said if drive impact is 2 bars driver reversal should be 1 bar and not -8

Gief for example does not benefit from the drive system almost at all.

He rarely uses Drive Rush outside of closing the gap and having one sole conversion or mix into SPD

Sim barely has opportunities to use Drive Rush unless it's up close, his long range pokes don't hit crouching and AA with that long range HK isn't easy.

[unkempt bridge]

-8?

[cursive frigate]

Drive reversal on block is -8 lol

And it costs 2 bars

-8 for everyone and it's a 20f start-up

[unkempt bridge]

Oh yeah

[cursive frigate]

It resets neutral but man it sucks against most medium attacks so it's use is very limited

[unkempt bridge]

That's why I'm not a big fan of the drive system when you have weird situations like this

[flat delta]

it's my bad habit, I love drive impact too much, I use it whenever I can as a combo-starter or get out of jail, or just to get pressure, I hate that I do that but I really enjoy it, tho I bet, it being 2 bars would be more risk-reward

[unkempt bridge]

Exactly

[flat delta]

Deejay tho, with drive rush is a menace

[cursive frigate]

But if you land a DI with 2 bars the scaling will be different

Yeah zoomer needs a tone down. You only have the pocket to challenge him outside of that and you can't really pray for a trade, especially with his 2mk

[unkempt bridge]

That and you can get a full combo off of 1 bar with drive rush

[cursive frigate]

There's no reason anyone should have a safe sweep out of DR.

Everyone else is -6 while Deejay is loving off -2 at worst

[unkempt bridge]

Drive rush is literally a less reactable version a normal combo starter

For 1 bar

[cursive frigate]

Well it eats an input and also at a certain range you risk pressing

Its also a strike/throw/block mixup

Kim's drive Rush conversion are nutty since its always + and a guess

While Juri, Ken, Luke, Cammy have threatening 2MK into DR

It's actually balanced for Luke though that's his only way to get big damage

He has to spend drive or get a punish counter and link into 2HP

[unkempt bridge]

I do have an idea how to distribute the bars among the drive moves but it'd still be beneficial for some of the roster and not so much for the others and so you get stuck in this loop over and over

But the worst idea is assigning each character different drive meter costs

[cursive frigate]

Yeah that'll be a massive headache for Capcom

You don't want USF4 all over again

[flat delta]

You are the devil

LMFAO

[unkempt bridge]

But the point is this

[cursive frigate]

Calm down karma 😂

[unkempt bridge]

The drive system is great on paper but in the game.... no

[flat delta]

it's good too, shhhhhhh, I'm a DI spammer, shhh 😭

[unkempt bridge]

Lmao

[cursive frigate]

Who do you think doesn't benefit from the drive system besides Gief and Sim

Sim can't pressure without it technically

[unkempt bridge]

Lily

She's okay with it but nothing amazing

[cursive frigate]

Fair point she does have the od condor spire bug, for now

Dive* not Spire

[unkempt bridge]

Still a bit better than Gief but yeah

[cursive frigate]

I still wonder how Capcom doesn't find these bugs lol... I'm still mad Kiko aired out the stun lock glitch

But they did patch the level 3 bug Kim had

[unkempt bridge]

Lmao

[cursive frigate]

Now they have to patch Juris level 2 debuff coding

Man Juri mirrors are toxic 😂 both just trying to DR in behind fireballs

[unkempt bridge]

And if you want to know why I put Kimberly in mid tier, it's 2 reasons

• no invincible DP
• an easily reactable teleport because of the color used
  But if you keep the pressure on your opponent, these don't matter

[cursive frigate]

Yeah teleport isn't that great it's just a pressure tool you use on Oki or as a surprise.

No DP isn't a huge problem though, Marisa, Manon and JP are evidence of that, having a DP in this game so far is only really good at blowing up Drive Rush cancels off mediums and lights.

Guile and Deejay have to risk it though

[unkempt bridge]

I'd rather have a DP and risk it than having no DP at all

For example, you were putting so much pressure on me, all I could do was block and poke my way out but in most cases, that didn't happen

You got so many counter hits on me

[cursive frigate]

Eh I'm personally used to it, Guys sucked in SF4 until Ultra basically... And Yang didn't have one in 3S.

Gotta parry, most jab strings you can parry and get pushed back and can whiff punish OR you can aim for a perfect parry

[unkempt bridge]

So if her EX tatsu had invincibility, that'd be a different story

Doesn't Guy have an invincible tatsu?

[cursive frigate]

He did ... However it had a problem

The hitbox sucked

Low profile

So example, Ryu could Cr MK and it would whiff

[unkempt bridge]

Now I remember that

[cursive frigate]

And it's air Hitbox was only active for like 2 frames so the chances of it whiffing as an AA was well.. very possible or just getting one hit.

Took until Ultra to fix it finally

[unkempt bridge]

But that's not the case for Kimberly so it'd be nice to add some invincibility to it at least

[cursive frigate]

She used to in beta

When I say it was physically impossible to jump in on her... I mean it

[unkempt bridge]

I know, I was dumbfounded why it was removed

[cursive frigate]

Because beta 1 and beta 2 she was "low tier"

[unkempt bridge]

True

[cursive frigate]

Open beta after Diaphone, myself, ShinLad, robinho and Co all developed the character ... She was "suddenly top tier"

[unkempt bridge]

Didn't play it but I did watch some players suffer with her in those betas

[cursive frigate]

And basically everyone played her

[unkempt bridge]

You could still nerf other aspects instead of removing the invincibility lol

[cursive frigate]

Twitter had a field day and Capcom opted to change her pressure routes and make OD Tatsu solely an anti air and regular Tatsu AA only on the active frames of the first kick

[unkempt bridge]

Which wasn't the best idea but Capcom do be like that sometimes

[cursive frigate]

Eh they gave Lily a non reversal DP lol

That shit just beats air attecks, throws and you can't safe jump her if she has wind

Not a lot of people realize that either but wind power up makes her DP 4f

[unkempt bridge]

As I said before days ago, Kimberly is basically the SF5 final patch Urien of SF6

[cursive frigate]

Chill Urien lost everything

That man can't even mix lol

Tbh he's 3S Urien without the unblockable now

[unkempt bridge]

But the biggest change was removing the invincibility from his EX headbutt

You couldn't AA with it anymore unless the stars aligned

[cursive frigate]

True but you weren't waking up with that really,it was an interrupt option

Unless you played Ed

[flat delta]

Was Ed bad?

[unkempt bridge]

Fair enough

[cursive frigate]

Ed had a 12f reversal

And he was bad until champion edition

[flat delta]

oh

[cursive frigate]

Ed was a weird character he had the most inconsistent combos lol

But he has 123.

[flat delta]

I'm hoping he's better when he releases

[unkempt bridge]

Imagine if he keeps that reversal in SF6

That'd be so sad

[flat delta]

I mean, we already have drive reversal so I doubt it

[cursive frigate]

I'm gonna fucking laugh if Ending walker tries it and someone parried

Ehh ed's v reversal was bad though so I hope is Drive Reversal is good

[flat delta]

aren't all drive reversals the same?

I can't wrap my mind around drive reversal at all so 😭 I have no idea on it

DI's tthe only shit I use

[cursive frigate]

Yeah they should be

I hope they don't add evasive Drive Reversals to only some characters like they did in 5

[flat delta]

we pray not

[cursive frigate]

Damn sticky #1 Manon 👀

[flat delta]

I'm hella excited for Rashid, Aki and Ed tbf

[unkempt bridge]

I suspect there's a lot of change happening when they release a patch alongside Rashid's release

[flat delta]

but I am praying you can buy them with drive tickets too

[cursive frigate]

I doubt they'll do a big patch

[flat delta]

tho, chances are probably way too slim to none

[cursive frigate]

Probably QoL and bug fixes

I do not want a DBFZ fiasco

Honestly hated the way that game got patched.... There's no reason to ever change an entire game days before a major tournament on your tour

[unkempt bridge]

Since Kimberly is more of an offensive character than a defensive character, I want her teleports to be the same color over having an invincible DP

But I'm doubtful

[cursive frigate]

I'd rather her have options to teleport

[flat delta]

same color and being able to teleport behind too would be a great QoL tho

[cursive frigate]

Close up, far away, and the same option as now

[flat delta]

being able to tell where mf finna tp just cuz of color kinda stupid IMO, sure, works for counterplay but 😭

[cursive frigate]

OD can stay the same though I don't think she needs a left right from it

[unkempt bridge]

But in the end, they're counterable, just spam LP or LK

[cursive frigate]

Now one QoL I 10000% want

Let me hold punch to not spend can on level 1

So help me god

And let me use different strengths to aim level 2

Jumping to go full screen makes no sense lol

[unkempt bridge]

That level 2 one is so bullshit lol

Cammy had an adjustable CA in 5, why not do the same in 6

[cursive frigate]

No idea also the discrepancy between super Invincibilites is an odd one

Some level 2 have Invincibility and some don't

Some level 1s only have strke or throw Invincibilites

That's actually the main reason why Gief sucks

Gief can't survive burnout until he has level 2

Sims wake up are the same ordeal

[unkempt bridge]

Another QoL change I want is having separate buttons for using and storing cans
I don't want to spend my 2 cans first in order to store more cans, let me store cans if I'm at 1 can

[cursive frigate]

22K to store

[unkempt bridge]

Yeah, easy fix

So many odd choices regarding Kimberly

[cursive frigate]

At least we don't have to spend drive to throw two out

[unkempt bridge]

Almost no one will throw 2 out at once

Waste of cans and better utility throwing 1 at a time

All drive moves should just cost 2 bars except drive reversal which should cost 1 bar /s

Keep it simple lol

[cursive frigate]

Two is only useful in two spots. Corner/Jump out trap and max damage routes

[unkempt bridge]

That's true and the big problem is that the characters play so different from one another that the drive system is biased towards select characters and so the drive system needs a rework of some kind to mitigate this.
The idea I said about giving each character different drive gauge costs sounds like the worst thing but it does make the most sense to resolve the disparity among the roster... but what do I know?

[meager stream]

How is Kimberlys dmg?

[tacit basin]

Kind of bad, it doesn't get better until you use your level 3. it's still not amazing even then

[tall timber]

does anyone have any tips for hit confirming? I tried with 2HP like was suggested here earlier but its still really hard

[steel junco]

yo DNB is bigg salty dude....reading all your guys banter and DNB sounds just like LTG

man cant accept someone is better than him while hes in gold sheesh

personally agreeing with everything Deznere said and i didnt know the guy before.....but he literally brought reasons for everything he said while DNB and Karma were just pulling shit out of thin air.....Karma is at least a man while DNB is just salty

[karmic torrent]

I will say, as much as same color teleport would be fun, realistically it becomes borderline unreactable to most people that way, and if you thought complaints during the beta were bad things would be even worse if you couldn't identify which teleport is happening based off of the color of her smoke
I'm more a fan of just having more teleport options and having control of where it puts you as opposed to now

[delicate cave]

eh im stuck in gold as well, but I agree with deznere also

tiers dont really matter as long as you're having fun with the character

kimberly's fun because the amount of mixups she has gives her a lot of freedom of expression, so you can flexibly play her in multiple ways once you learn her optimals

well that and her being a hip-hop ninja is cool

[unkempt bridge]

I'm not even gold but ok lol
And I didn't disagree with everything Deznere said but you're welcome to have your own opinion

[unkempt bridge]

Tell that to Dhalsim

[meager stream]

What's the bnbs kimbs got?

Just trying out char and wanna lab her out see if shes main potential

[meager stream]

Her CA music after is a banger

[tall timber]

if I'm a beginner should I just practice anti airing with 2HP?

tatsu seems better but its so hard to get off in anti air practice

[chilly vine]

any advice for hitting instant OD-airthrow after throw into can bomb?

I can get it but it feels soooo tight

I know I'ma be whiffing it in game

[karmic torrent]

im

1. dhalsim's teleport is more easily reactable than kimberly teleporting most of the time
2. dhalsim approaching via teleport is p fundamentally different from Kimberly doing the same, considering they have different objectives and gameplans. not that dhalsim never goes for up close pressure or mixups but that's p different from kimberly who's main goal in general is to get up close and apply mixups/pressure from there, so getting in with teleport means more for her
3. most importantly your response to dhalsim teleporting doesn't drastically change depending on which side of you he ends up on really

[cursive frigate]

Sims teleport is kinda bad lol

Also is anyone a fan of Guy's K Aism Color, the Purple and Yellow?

[meager stream]

Sadness

To help

[unkempt bridge]

I was being sarcastic

[karmic torrent]

my B, hard to read sarcasm over text

[unkempt bridge]

They both have a teleport but used for different reasons

[cursive frigate]

WELP found the busted setplay with Kim... and i can't post a video in here lol

[unkempt bridge]

Upload to yt and link it

[cursive frigate]

Fam i am trying to keep this shit a whole ass secret to the world lol

[cursive frigate]

DM me and i'll send you an invite to the Kim discord since that;'s where its plosted + explanation

[tall timber]

when should you be using TP in neutral?

I mainly see top players use it in pressure/punish only

[cursive frigate]

almost never or to punish a fireball by shotos if you're fast enough

Its also brain dead against Sims fireballs basically

[tall timber]

ok gotchya

rn I still feel like my neutral is limited, mainly I'm throwing out pokes like 5MK or 5LK and sprint sliding, with some jumps in here and there

idk what else I should be doing but sometimes I feel like I'm not playing her rushdown enough when she is a rush down character

[cursive frigate]

found a workaround @unkempt bridge

So there are several.. and I mean .. several layers to this. Now this setup is unjumpable, and essentially an unblockable. I tested every reversal if they wake up with it or do it out of block on every setup, it does work out against most and will either leave us + or unpunishable but minus if the DI doesn't connect. Off the Safe jump you can OS Parry or OS DI, results will vary, however perfect parries... can be very, very interesting as the slowdown actually holds the frames of the cans, so nearly every character will land back into the bombs outside of Deejay however he gets punished if he reversals regardless if you're not getting hit by it of course.

This does not include Amnesia from JP for obvious reasons BUT if he does wake up with that you can jail him with a light attack to activate Amnesia, then do TC into DI, he can't escape, and gets wall splat or punished countered.. and of course we beat DI if timed correctly and avoid the projectiles.

And against Marisa you have to just a light attack if she wakes up OD Armor.

Juri however can reversal through the meaty 2HP setup if she blocks and then OD Reversals, every other setup she gets punished

First and foremost the setup with OD Arc Step into back to back can throws is not real.. -2 BUT if they respect the blow they can't Super as you can see they also can't reversal for the most part.

Level 2's with long invincibility will 100% avoid this or give a trade you can't convert from BUT there's a way to avoid wake up supers if they have 2 or 3 bars. I'll get to this later. Chun escapes with Level 2 if you do the safejump route J HK, 2LP DI, but cannot avoid J HK into DI or the other other setups.

Sim specifically if he does wake up level 2 is interesting.. since his level 2 can't hit crouching each setup will work and you can avoid the projkectile as follows, off the Meaty 2HP setup, do another 2HP, Run Slide IMMEDIATELY TK Air Throw or Level 3 slightly after you recover from slide,

IF he level 2s off the safe jump setup, 2HP Run Stop is the route there fpr TK Air Throw OR you can do 2HP LP Vagabond, into another LP Vagabond Level 3.

This 100% works on everyone's Level 1 except Kim and Marisa so far that I've tested, however Ryu, Honda. Blanka, Ken. and Juri will trade on every setup except 2 can safe jump J HK into 2LP DI

But interesting thing for Guile and Blanka off the meaty 2HP Routes.. You can sub the 2HP for DI, which is ballsy... but if you read that they will wakeup reversal you'll avoid their reversal and they will land in the bombs... for Honda you can still do 2HP he will 100% get Punish Countered and juggled.

https://streamable.com/fileh9

Thank me later.

[unkempt bridge]

Jesus christ

[cursive frigate]

yeaaaaah lol

OH Shit i forgot the setup to avoid supers...

if you do the safejump route (this is best in burnout).., instead of jumping.. you can do immediate overhead (4HK) after can throw.. you'll be at 0 you can jab IF they reveresal super.. you can hold parry and kara cancel the startup of your attack and be completely safe and get a punish

[gleaming charm]

does anyone know when i have the chance to do bomb setups?

like after what move am i safe to do it

[cursive frigate]

Basically this covers several options that the opponent can do and there's only 1 sure fire way they can avoid damage if they only have level 1 super

[cursive frigate]

Watch the video I posted and watch ShinLad's YouTube videos

[flat delta]

Ya kno my dumbass be on modern either way LMAO, not like I'd be able to do all them shannanigans

[karmic torrent]

does modern not get spray cans?

[cursive frigate]

They do

It's just for some odd reason not listed in her moveset but Its there still as 22P

[cursive frigate]

You still get cans in modern 😂 I do think this should work on modern since you have her whole moveset still

[flat delta]

yeeee but we miss some random shit on modern, no? 😭 when it comes to kicks and shit 😭

[karmic torrent]

I watched a video on this, I think the only grounded normal she loses is 2MP

https://youtu.be/15w2KiK6YHI

[flat delta]

Guess I'm just playing her super wrong them 😭

[cursive frigate]

I think you only lost st MK? I haven't checked her modern set out

Oh only 2MP? That's a big loss technically since 2MP is +7

[flat delta]

😭

[west hill]

You should be able to play Kim in modern withhout issue if you only lose 2MP.

[distant sun]

Hey.

So I have been doing this but I'm not sure if it's actually optimal

Doing some pressure with lp then

smoke screen hp > OD run > grab > 6hk > jump hk

If I'm near to conrer I will do
Smoke screen hp > OD run > kick thing > 6hk > jump hk

I have tested a few things but 6hk > jump then jump hk seems the only things I can combo off after OD run stuff

[delicate cave]

Imagine how many Ws Kimberly would get if her LP was a low

[distant sun]

Is this some save mix stuff ?

Like you do stuff and they just gotta hold it ?

I'm in a weird spot where I know how to get into bomb setup. However I don't know the actual combo after.

Often it's like OD run into kick or ending a combo with 236k the slide and being plus enough.

It seems all the combo's with bomb use her OD air grab and I assume there is some crazy input to get jump and grab to come out at the right time

[cursive frigate]

Mostly safe, certain characters have options depending on the setup . JP is the best at avoiding due to OD Amnesia unless he puts himself in burnout and doesn't have super

It's 100% a check mate in a lot of situations

[cursive frigate]

6Hk to 8HK is +30 gives her a high low mix with DR 4HK and 3MK

6HK into 8HP is +42 auto safe jump

6HK into 8 214K works and 214KK for Level 2 and naturally you can do Run LK or OD Run LK instead of 6HK

[abstract helm]

Hit me with all the Kimberly tech you got. I’m tryna stop be hardstuck Iron (DAMN I SUCK)

[delicate cave]

Tbh I feel like I peaked with Kimberly, not even sure what to do next with her

[vale copper]

just watch diaphone play and steal everything

[abstract helm]

Thank you

Still tryna learn how to instant drive rush and all

[vale copper]

https://youtu.be/cGHHeQRhcSg

[abstract helm]

Thank you my fellow Kimberly player

[delicate cave]

Back mb

Just hit platinum yesterday

wbu?

[delicate cave]

Tbh I say learn her specials inside and out

Optimally you would want to learn her combos and where is a good spacing to connect her normals

But learning specials early will help you get used to her mixups

...Actually its better to learn both side-by-side now that I think about it

[abstract helm]

True. I didn’t even know OD spray can charged both

I got the specials. I just gotta learn the OD

[delicate cave]

Ironically same, getting used to traps helps with both pressure and also fake pressure

Plus bomb pressure is just visually interesting to watch play out in high level

[abstract helm]

I literally looked at myself in the mirror and asked why I didn’t know this

[abstract helm]

My bombs got 2% accuracy

[delicate cave]

Yeah thats mainly why people use them in the corner lol, you can use them in neutral but it's really niche to since its harder to frametrap your opponent with Kimberly compared to other characters

Tbh I still use them in neutral anyways if I want an extra mixup options if im in a comfortable spot lol

Nice man

[abstract helm]

I be popping off when I hit one “GOT YO ASS”

[delicate cave]

fr lmao

its satisfying cause its such a chaotic way to mess with your opponent

[abstract helm]

And then I hit jumping light and medium punch and that’s it. No mix, no combo

[delicate cave]

Putting the mental pressure on your opponent is more than enough

[abstract helm]

Me watching my opponent easily dash pass them 😐

[delicate cave]

Oh I thought you said they hit lol

Yeah that always sucks

[abstract helm]

Well yeah they hit 2% of the time. The other times they just dash pass them and I get combo’d

[shell pecan]

are there other ways to set up spray can oki besides 5MP~HP slide?

sorry if that's a dumb question, rn i'm piecing together stuff from void and diaphone gameplay as well as supercombo and the combo trials

[delicate cave]

oh hey long time no see

[delicate cave]

but yeah anyways, my favorite way is doing a combo ending in a tatsu into the corner, or just using tatsu as an AA then landing the bomb after

[shell pecan]

i'm sorry, i don't remember you

is tatsu referring to 214K?

[delicate cave]

you can also use the bushin chain target combo(the strike one, idk if the grab one works) or if you're bold enough, do one after a wallsplat

[delicate cave]

jack o channel in the other discord

[shell pecan]

OH

[delicate cave]

yeah

[shell pecan]

hi

i remember

[delicate cave]

yeah mb I never ran those matches with you, was busy

[shell pecan]

you don't seem plus enough for that tho

+21 after 214HK

+39 after 236HP jMP j214HK

i guess j214KK gives you enough frames

[delicate cave]

Yeah it has to be OD tatsu, my bad

I forgot since I mainly use OD tatsu, unless I AA with HK

[shell pecan]

she seems a little drive hungry

i see a lot of kimberlys using hella drive rush

and i know you need j236PP for a lot of conversions

[delicate cave]

Well its kinda weird since her optimal combos use little drive gauge

With the trade off is her optimals are pretty hard to do

[shell pecan]

in what way

i can do long combos

[delicate cave]

Like OD Teleport->j.HK->cr.HP->H.Vagabond->DR->Bushin Chain(Strike)->level 1-3 only loses 2 bars because you gain some back after the super is done

[shell pecan]

i can do that

probably

what's the point of the teleport

[delicate cave]

Yeah its not hard, pretty much every gold and up Kim player knows how to do it, but it is one of her most optimal ways combo into level 1/3

OD Teleport is my own little flair to make sure cr.HP connects

Also forgot to mention j.HK before cr.HP

[shell pecan]

if you don't wanna super isn't it better to do a 5HK route

[shell pecan]

also is it less damage do to 236LP before the lvl 3 here?

because of scaling

or did u just omit it bc you can't do it for lvl 1

[delicate cave]

Honestly if I dont super, I rather just use the corner carry slide combo and get my 50/50 started

[delicate cave]

Nah 236LP doesnt scale, most Kimberlys add that at the end since its optimal

[shell pecan]

ok cool

[delicate cave]

I just... dont do it personally since I suck at doing it, so I forgot to include it mb

[shell pecan]

it's easy if you do the trick

236LP236P

cuz it memorizes the first quarter circle

and counts it towards the super input

[delicate cave]

Eh I tried, I cant figure out the buffer and it doesnt work 1F either since they'll be on the ground by then

[shell pecan]

also nvm

apparently her wiki page actually has content

and it has all the spray can setups

[delicate cave]

Are you on the Kimberly discord?

If not ill DM you it

[shell pecan]

i would appreciate it

[lost sparrow]

Can someone explain the number system here really quick.

[cerulean peak]

Corresponds to numberpad directions. So 236P is down, down-forward, forward + Punch

[lost sparrow]

Oh ok thanks! Seems like qcf LP is easier to read imo. But I could just more used to that.

[tame anchor]

can Kimberly's level 3 be used as a frame 1 reversal or is that just her level 1?

[cerulean peak]

I tend to agree. Numpad notation makes more sense in Tekken, but it's useful in some cases for Street Fighter and I suppose people just like using the same notation for all fighting games.

But then you have games like Mortal Kombat where the attack buttons are numbered 1-2-3-4.

[delicate cave]

Yeah mainly we just came from anime fighters so were just more used to the notations. I didn't realize how much Street Fighter players didn't like it until I started to play SF6.

[cerulean peak]

I played a lot during SF4 and most preferred qcf/dp/hcf/etc notations. Got back into Quake during SF5 and didn't play many fighters the past 5-7 years. There seems to have been a general shift to prefer number pad notations in that time.

[delicate cave]

Yeah ever since FighterZ took off, people been using the numpad notations a lot more over the past couple of years, but a lot of SF players still use their own notations. At this point it's just a matter of preference.

[limber fractal]

Hey all anyone here got advice on the Jamie matchup? Having a hard time with it

[restive nexus]

Hey guys. I'm new

Is there a standalone Kim dc?

Also, hit me with every single tech and strategy you got

[shell pecan]

While abbreviation notation does have its merit since it's easier for whoever hasn't heard of numpad, numpad notation is more universal and can be useful for situations where you're describing a series of inputs rather than one common motion

It's not at all difficult to learn and it has the added bonus of being legible in any language!

[lean zodiac]

what do you do after you run out of cans?

like is it worth giving up oki to refill

[cursive frigate]

FAT updated and it's confirmed that cabs are now a different frame data.. 122F for light, 124F for medium and 128F for heavy .. it seems to also apply to the corner and double can but all versions of can have connect after a throw OTG setup

[shell pecan]

can reload has the exact same frame data as the throw, so any can setup can be used to reload as well!

you don't need to give up oki, you can set up any can thing and still get the meaty as usual

[shell pecan]

i fucking love kimberly

i actually feel like i have the tools to punish bad players

[delicate cave]

Yeah knowledge check characters are usually my favorite

[shell pecan]

well there's that too

but i mainly mean like

she has really strong options to counter cheesy playstyles

like people who neutral jump a lot or run away with a life lead

and people who dp a lot

[delicate cave]

Yeah that's what I meant to say by that mb

Like characters that can punish bad habits

And overall has a lot of mixup potential

The issue is her gimmicks kinda fall off in higher ranks

Which isnt really an issue since she has a lot of fast-react 50/50 situations

[shell pecan]

yea i don't feel like i need to rely on her gimmicks

she has hella true 50/50 stuff

the fact that she has a low that's plus

becomes +5 after drive rush

so much corner carry

so many safejumps

and a fuzzy overhead setup

[crystal plume]

eyo wat nades are good for wall combos and how long till it blows?

[shell pecan]

You want to do HP, it takes the longest but only by a very slight bit meaning you can do all the same setups as the others but get more plus frames on block

You can find the spray can frame data on the supercombo wiki

[crystal plume]

got it thx

[crystal plume]

hey wat are kims best wake up options

[west hill]

Blocking, teching and reversal super are your 3 primary options similar to most characters.

Backdash also viable

[crystal plume]

thx

hey how do you combo after chk, trying everything and nothing works

[glacial notch]

Like, stHK? stMP links.

[crystal plume]

ok

[cursive frigate]

Haitani has an interesting tier list... First one to put Jamie higher than Low tier and Guile out of the top 5.... Kim Honda and Marisa in the same tier ... And cammy is arguably the best?

[shell pecan]

cHK doesn't combo

[cursive frigate]

@shell pecan 5Hk is +7

[shell pecan]

You get a hard knockdown tho so you can pressure after

[cursive frigate]

That's what he means

[shell pecan]

What?

[cursive frigate]

cHK Is close HK

[shell pecan]

No it's not

[cursive frigate]

Back in old times we actually had a far and close button

[shell pecan]

That's crouch HK

[cursive frigate]

No Cr HK would be crouch

[shell pecan]

No one says cr HK in this game

[cursive frigate]

Yes we do lol

[shell pecan]

This is why we need numpad 💀

Kimberly has no close or far normals

[cursive frigate]

Then that would be 2HK

[shell pecan]

Afaik there's literally only one proximity move which is that one Zangief command grab

[cursive frigate]

No one in this game has close or far normals but people from older generations of fighters might not know that

Ooooorr you know. Guilty Gear and KOF

[shell pecan]

Well it's not clear at all whether they're saying close or crouching, in the context of this game crouching makes more sense

Because people do say cHK and sHK for crouching and standing respectively

[cursive frigate]

I would use the abbreviation I've seen and used for 2 decades... Which is St, Cr, C and F..... Beforehand we had to say Fr for forward lol

[shell pecan]

Like I said there's no context to tell them apart

Besides the fact that this game has no proximity sooo

[cursive frigate]

I know but he's probably new to the game

[shell pecan]

Yea and c and s are used for other games too

There's no context as to what game he comes from

Numpad 👹👹 numpad 👹👹 learn numpad 👹👹

But yea I was thinking of 2HK that's why I mentioned the hkd

[cursive frigate]

I just use all forms of notations 😂

[shell pecan]

After 5HK you do 5MP~HP into whatever or on punish counter you can do 5HP into whatever

[cursive frigate]

Welp JP wins a major while Kim gets 7th

And a Gief made top 8

[unkempt bridge]

JP won a major?

[mild plume]

Whose everyone’s favorite kimberly pro player? Personally i like Diaphone. His Kimberly is scary lol

[thorny kernel]

Diaphone is too sick

[cursive ruin]

god kim sucks

without dp

she has no defense

[shell pecan]

Diaphone and Shine

Are both rlly good

They play kinda different so it's refreshing to see both

[cursive ruin]

i subscribe to both those guys I feel like we have to work so much harder

[unkempt bridge]

I've put Kimberly on hold and switched to Manon for the time being

[mild plume]

Yeah trying to emulate Diaphone just aint working out for me 🤣🤣

[shell pecan]

I did the opposite 😭

Learned the game's mechanics with Manon first and then got to an advanced character (Kimberly) once I was comfortable

I feel like Kimberly gives me way more options for baiting and punishing and different strategies

While Manon is very straight forward 1 2

No shame to Manon players obviously, I still love playing as her and I think she's good

Just feel like Kimberly is a very artistic character

I like characters that let you express yourself in fighting games

[unkempt bridge]

For me, Kimberly just has too many cons to use her so I picked someone else

Manon may be straightforward but you can still be unpredictable with her

[shell pecan]

Compared to Manon? 💀

What cons are you talking about

Besides like. No reversal (shared with Manon) and low-ish damage (trade off for having much more consistent pressure than Manon and getting high dmg with lvl 3 buff)

[unkempt bridge]

An easily reactable teleport because of the color

[shell pecan]

TP isn't really her main mechanic

It's a tool u have but u don't use it very often

I've seen some overview guides for every character that sat it's like her main thing but it's not

[thorny kernel]

Better than no teleport at all

[shell pecan]

It's a mixup

[unkempt bridge]

Some people will use it a lot, others won't but when it's used, you can react accordingly with time to spare

[shell pecan]

That's not true

This game has hella things to react to

So many checks especially per matchup

[unkempt bridge]

Teleport is more reactable than DI

[shell pecan]

If you mix it up like I said it's very tricky

You can see Diaphone use it for mixups in the corner sometimes and it works because he has other options he mixes it up with

[unkempt bridge]

Mixing it up won't shorten the startup time nor will the color change

[shell pecan]

You can't let it be your main thing

[unkempt bridge]

Like you said, you can express yourself with Kimberly

Everyone plays her differently

[shell pecan]

Ur letting a single move decide ur opinion on the whole character when like I said it's not her main thing at all

Maybe the reason you're not enjoying her is because you're using that move too much

[unkempt bridge]

It's one of the reasons I don't play her

Not the only one

[shell pecan]

Well what other reason

[unkempt bridge]

No invincible DP

Due to her damage output being lower overall, she needs it more than Manon does

[cerulean peak]

Cammy's been blowing me up recently with some pretty flow chart techniques. jab, jab, jab, canon spiral as well as some mp/hp frame traps. What do? She seems so safe. Can I do anything after light canon spiral?

[thorny kernel]

absolutely

it's punishable

try using a light normal

[cerulean peak]

I guess I just need to mash jab harder. 🤪

[unkempt bridge]

Diaphone's video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGHHeQRhcSg

[rustic cliff]

I feel that

[rustic cliff]

Is it LP + HP at beginning for that izu drop combination?

The punches look like two gut punches

[distant sun]

So i got 2 questions as it seems to be my 2 main things holding be back.

What do you go for after 2mk on block or hit ?
Like i see often people at high ranks will do pressure with 5lp and either cancel into lp or 214p or 2mk or even a grab. I often just go lp > lp > lp > lp for my pressure as for some reason people try to mash around silver rank.
2mk is plus 1 on block but your not exactly close by to go for a strike / throw or do a fast low range button, and not plus enough to start pulling out stuff like hk / hp

Also how do you actually do the bomb jump 236pp combo stuff and is there an easier one to do ?
It seems almost impossible to actually do. Like i get in a spot to do the setup, when i get like OD run > kick > wall hit > bomb > grab and then im like ummm guess i just do my DP or something.

[shell pecan]

after regular block 2MK you do 2LP

2LP is your only 4f button, which will beat anything they do

5LP is 5f so it'll trade with a 4f button they do

[distant sun]

will that even reach tho ?
Seems like 2mk > 2lp does not reach

[shell pecan]

yea raw 2MK is not actually used very often

drive rush 2MK gives you so much more

it's +5

so you can properly strike/throw/shimmy

[distant sun]

i have seen in netrual people do lots of 5mk and 2mk

[shell pecan]

and frametrap much more effectively with 2MP and 5MP which leave a 1 frame gap

[shell pecan]

in high level gameplay you'll see pokes with 5MK into drive rush cancel 2MK, or just raw drive rush 2MK in neutral

[distant sun]

what is the bonus of drive rush into 2mk what does it lead into ?
Combo wise.

[shell pecan]

combo-wise it's +9 i believe

so you can go into 5HP 236HP etc

or you can simply go into 2MP 5MP~HP etc if you need a certain knockdown like that

[distant sun]

Yeah it does seem like with kimberly alot of learning is what leads to what and knocking plus frames from KD, like knowing ahh im going to end in y as this leaves me plus enough to do x instead of the higher damage combo