beta-ptr-spoilers

[subtle oar]

No

[strange falcon]

A ton of games are really pretty without being ultramega realistic graphics

Higher graphics does not equal prettier graphics

[uncut lintel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/645993803160748032/895239026175512596/caption.gif

[strange falcon]

Foxy, using the gif improperly makes it lose its value

[glass flicker]

True.

A realistic graphics game can look significantly worse than a cartoony one.

[opaque pewter]

You might be joking, but I'll entertain that thought.
People seem to not know exactly what UE5 is. It's more than just graphics.
You can get something stylized like WoW in that, it doesn't need to be realistic with the bad bloom, etc.
The reason UE games all look the same is because the smaller studios don't have the resource to divert too much from what the engine provides already. (It's also the reason why they can come up with games today; they don't have to code an engine and just delegate that)
In any case, it's also a full game engine and not just a view render one (can't just use part of it afaik, unless collab), so it's really not a feasible thing to port to anyway

[glass flicker]

Or even a pixel art one.

[strange falcon]

The comparison that gets brought up often, is Legend of Zelda windwaker and Resident evil 4(which came 2 years after) one looks dated, the other doesnt

[glass flicker]

Yup.

[uncut lintel]

is wow going to UE5?

[opaque pewter]

Not as we know no

[strange falcon]

I know what UE5 is, but unanimously, when "imagine wow in UE5" its always about the graphics being ultra realistic

[uncut lintel]

what if it did would that be bad

[strange falcon]

Thats why i made that comment

[opaque pewter]

Yeah I know, I just wanted to educate a bit on that subject

[glass flicker]

Want WoW to look better? Keep the style but update it frequently so transitions don't look too jarring.

[uncut lintel]

thats dumb

[glass flicker]

How?

[uncut lintel]

too much work

[glass flicker]

Okay, if you think a slight graphical overhaul wasn't needed in WoD.

[strange falcon]

Unity is a perfectly nice engine for indie games as well, UE is more for tripleA games mostly from my knowledge

[uncut lintel]

idk, looks fine to me

[glass flicker]

They literally updated all playable models (save for belf, draenei, worgen, goblin and panda) at WoD launch.

[strange falcon]

Vanilla goblins are nightmare fuel

[uncut lintel]

oh i thought that was legion?

[glass flicker]

That was the animations, dummy.

[uncut lintel]

[strange falcon]

Dont worry about foxy, she do be like that

[uncut lintel]

man idk

i just remember getting my moose then playing legion

@strange falcon is WoW on unity

?

[strange falcon]

No

[opaque pewter]

No lol

[uncut lintel]

what engine does WoW us

e

[opaque pewter]

In-house

From WC3 as a base

[uncut lintel]

that some old boomer shit

[opaque pewter]

Very, and that's what our discussion was around yes

[glass flicker]

Yup. And it's very limited, too.

[uncut lintel]

if they move to UE5 my computer is gonna catch on fire

[glass flicker]

If they plan to update the engine, they should update the editor tool, as well, so they can give us player housing.

[uncut lintel]

player housing

we all want but idk if we'll ever get

[glass flicker]

Baby steps.

[opaque pewter]

The world editor is pretty good from what I've seen.
But you're probably talking about the in-game asset manager

[strange falcon]

Could always play another game that already has it 4head

[uncut lintel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/645993803160748032/895239026175512596/caption.gif

[glass flicker]

Both?

[uncut lintel]

sure ill leave 15 yrs of work

[strange falcon]

Foxy, stop misusing the gif

[uncut lintel]

no

i lpayed games with housing but i always go back to wow

i dont live for housing

i just think it would be fun

[strange falcon]

I dont want to explain the sunk cost fallacy again

[uncut lintel]

play another game my ass im too addicted to quit >: (

ALSO WHEN DRAGONFLIGHT ive been waiting for months

i wanna play a dragon

[glass flicker]

Well, I'd rather have order halls 69.420.0 than a private instance people go to ERP to.

[uncut lintel]

new class halls with new cooler mounts

[opaque pewter]

In any case, yes you can keep the charm of WoW art style in a more capable graphics engine.
If you watched Arcane, you'd have a good idea of what it would look like since both are hand-painted style. They probably used Blizzard's style as one of the reference. Now combine it with lighting and the likes, you get that result

[glass flicker]

Maybe just add guild halls and make them private instances if the player is not in a guild/not the GM.

And put a bank in there k thanks.

[strange falcon]

I dont think the riot mmo would have arcanes graphics tbh

[opaque pewter]

I don't think so since it needs to be realtime

[glass flicker]

What I think WoW suffers of, is bodytype diversity between characters.

Yes, it's boob slider bait. Ha ha.

[uncut lintel]

arcane graphics is too good for any game

[opaque pewter]

But still, it's a good gauge to see how it can be improved with lighting

[uncut lintel]

@glass flicker : ( i want a chubby vulp

[ember blaze]

I want armor to look better

[uncut lintel]

amen

[glass flicker]

On a more serious note, a slider than changes how your character's texture appears would be nice. From chizzled to fat.

[ember blaze]

not like some flat icon they slap on it

or my plate top looking like a regular shirt

[uncut lintel]

@glass flicker if drathyr can get it other races to i hope they consider it for other races, i dont always wanna be skinny

[strange falcon]

Painted on armor is a real shame,
The concept art always look 100x better xd

[uncut lintel]

im american im allowed to be thicc

JK

[opaque pewter]

Right now, we have something that limits armor (and skin) a bit
If you haven't noticed, everything from neck to feet has to be symmetric

[uncut lintel]

@strange falcon they put all their effort into the armor concept art and make it half assed because they get lazy

[ember blaze]

🙏 ue5 wow 2030

[uncut lintel]

expecting wow to be closed down by then myself tbh

but who knows

[glass flicker]

That's the main issue with how it was designed from the ground up, and easily fixable with more 3D bits on armour.

[ember blaze]

if riot games kills it, maybe

[glass flicker]

You remember the vulpera heritage armour?

[uncut lintel]

and if riot games lasts a month then all dies maybe not

[glass flicker]

That one has an asymmetrical chest.

[uncut lintel]

what

u mean 3d?

[strange falcon]

Nah, as we have a decade of history to show, the only game that can kill wow is wow itself and the devs incompetence

[uncut lintel]

yea

[glass flicker]

It's asymmetrical, at least for males.

[uncut lintel]

i mean

i guess

[glass flicker]

So 3D bits could work to change the painted armour hurdle.

[opaque pewter]

Yeah pretty much. It's more possible since they're tailored for a specific character mesh

[uncut lintel]

i feel like theyll mostly add 3d to mythic raid and shop gear tho

[glass flicker]

I've seen some 3D bits on dungeon gear.

[uncut lintel]

oo which ones

[glass flicker]

BfA leather dungeon sets come to mind.

Collar and glove.

[uncut lintel]

idk never noticed it but i like it bcuz dinosaur head

[glass flicker]

Not that one.

[uncut lintel]

[glass flicker]

The Kul Tiras one.

[uncut lintel]

yea no idea

im not alliance

but i want more 3d like the recent store set

the sparkly star one

[uncut lintel]

one glove

[glass flicker]

It has a collar and knuckledusters.

[uncut lintel]

ah

[glass flicker]

They're really small bits of 3D but they make a difference.

[opaque pewter]

Also, asymmetric skin textures would give some good new variety without exploding the cost/effort. Like more natural body scars or different textured bracers on each side

[glass flicker]

You think they can turn off mirroring and give us that?

[uncut lintel]

they can

[opaque pewter]

It's not trivial work

It also would double (technically 4x more) the memory load if they all are converted, keeping the same quality

[glass flicker]

More asymmetry in general would be nice.

[opaque pewter]

Yeah

The face has been reworked for it at least

[glass flicker]

Yea but it's still not enough.

I'd like to be able to pick heterochromia of any colours, not only blue and green.

[opaque pewter]

Ah, I was just talking about the feasability with current tech. What I meant is that artists can actually paint a scar just on the left side if the want, but only for the face
But yes, it would be nice for more combination for eyes. It's not as free as we think though

[glass flicker]

2 limited 4 current gen tech.

[opaque pewter]

To make it simple for people to visualize, say we have 16 combinations of eyes like today, then you (and other people) would need to retain 16 fixed sets and load them easily for all characters around you
Now say you want things to be customized per eye. 16 choices.
That's 16 * 16 combinations. Depending on how that's interpreted (but likely 32 loads) it may be too much to spare. Add that multiplicity with body types, etc. You just have so much different stuff to load in a crowded space

[strange falcon]

The game lags from spell calculations already

[opaque pewter]

Most modern SP games apply a color shader (modifier) on top to add color variation. But I don't know the exact cost of that. It's certainly more than a fixed value. And with hand-painted style, a hue change is really not good for many range of value. For irises it might be okay though

[ember blaze]

do we know how many stacks you can get off the new affix? 🤔

can we reach BFA levels

🙏

[wet lark]

Asymmetrical gear mog, sliders and color wheels are the way to go

[rain cave]

for what

gear?

[rain cave]

I think the best way to do it would be to have every eye type texture be just plain white, then using a hidden effect/buff to alter the colour

since we already know they can change your model colour as an extra effect

so instead of loading a bunch of textures in unique for everything

you load in just the eye models as usual and then character info tells them what colour to tint that specific part of the eye texture

[opaque pewter]

I mean it was never impossible. It just incurs a cost that's probably not negligible

I'm curious about which effect in game right now works this way though. As far as I'm aware all textures are fixed

[rain cave]

I'm talking about things like shadowform

or those toys that change your colour

or debuffs like poisons

they change your colour and are not part of the actual texture, they're added after the fact

if they apply a similar system to eyes it could take loads off

albeit way more backline

[opaque pewter]

Right, yes.
The technical difference is that those effects are on the entire character, or based on their position/origin. Doing it for the eye texture alone would be something new to introduce
But yes there are many ways to tackle it lol

[rain cave]

well they can do it on a specific model

e.g. certian enchants like the shadowlands preorder one

[opaque pewter]

Absolutely yes

[rain cave]

I want asymetrical gauntlets

[opaque pewter]

If they can manage to pull that off, just asymmetrical would open up the door to a lot of possibilities at not so explosive more effort

[glass flicker]

Geez, guys, I went AFK for about an hour and sparked a whole discussion.

[opaque pewter]

There are slight issues with that colour wheel idea when you deal with hand-painted texture. It can look pretty bad at some range.
To have decent results all-around, You'd need to texture things in layers (expensive) or maybe allow on some limited, high color value part of the gear (i.e. starcraft team color ID, also expensive)

[cunning fossil]

hehe slidersd

booba

Seriously though Assymetrical access to mogs will be so cool

I wanna wear different gloves

[opaque pewter]

Hunters with bow and a single glove I can see being popular

[cunning fossil]

Hell yeah that'd be sweet

also different quivers

or even gun belts

[glass flicker]

How about being able to turn 3D bits on and off?

I want the Brawler's Gloves without the elbow pads. Yuck.

[opaque pewter]

Hmm many gloves are altered model mesh, so until asymmetrical textures are a thing, it won't be possible

[glass flicker]

I think my idea is feasible. Since wearing something with baggy sleeves turns off the elbow pads.

[opaque pewter]

Ah, but yeah shoulders are separate 3D meshes. Let me give you an example

These pant styles offer a good example of how gear on the body is. It's not really an additional layer but a modification of the base mesh, painted over

[glass flicker]

It's a model modification. Even some belts function like that.

[opaque pewter]

Some more intricate gloves will have separate 3D meshes, but they are usually designed with just those in mind. We don't really know how it would look like without that part

[glass flicker]

Wrath raids come to mind.

And some boots, as well.

[opaque pewter]

Yeah belt buckles are separate.
Boots are likely mostly base mesh alteration

[glass flicker]

And specifically ICC. Huh.

[opaque pewter]

Some belts are 3D around the waist, but I think that's very exceptional

[glass flicker]

Anyways, I'm talking about the 3D bits added to regular mesh to make it 3D.

[Brawler's Gloves]

[haughty hound]

Brawler's Gloves - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=167824/brawlers-gloves - PTR 9.2.5

Brawler's Gloves

PTR 9.2.5

[glass flicker]

Look at the knuckles and elbow pads. I wish we could remove them.

The base item is cool already.

[opaque pewter]

Yes that could be removed today, but as mentioned it may look odd for some lol
Would be nice for things like that example

[glass flicker]

I'm thinking that 3D bits in general should have a "turn off" feature.

It may look wrong for some. But let's say restricted to gloves and chest pieces only.

Maybe even boots.

[lean yew]

I wonder if the sylvannas bow is going to drop again next patch on fated raids

It feels like they wouldn't - because you can do it once every 3 weeks lol

I also haven't checked to see if its on the vendor, but I assume not

[deep pawn]

It's not on the vendor, but the upgrade item might drop

[oblique quail]

is there a conclusion to the voljin nightfae storyline in 9.2.5?

[subtle oar]

That was already concluded

He's a wildseed rn

[oblique quail]

thats not a conclusion thats just an open ending

[plain violet]

That's the conclusion of his storyline yes, you can see his seed with Bwonsamdi if searching in Ardenweald.

Maybe one day we will see more of him, but for now he's in the divine storage box.

[oblique quail]

maybe in troll heritage armor questline

[rain cave]

when the horde have enough of the council and get a real warchief back

voljin was robbed 😭

[ancient jasper]

Ah, yes, let's give the Horde another Warchief so they can go on another crazy genocidal rampage. BRILLIANT.

[plain violet]

Maybe yes, that would be logical to my eyes.

[subtle oar]

Warchief > Council

[ancient jasper]

Because Warchief has 100% worked out SO WELL for the Horde in the past.. Right?

[rain cave]

yes

Vol'Jin and Thrall

😐

[ancient jasper]

Thrall who gave the reins to Garrosh who ended up being a psychopath and Vol'jin who got tricked in to giving a genocidal maniac the reins. Brilliant.

[rain cave]

but they were good warchiefs

like walk into orgrimmar rn and it's just all the chumps standing around for the horde

didn't they already say that the council was a temporary measure anyway?

maybe some general horde rebranding is in order

[ancient jasper]

No I don't believe they did

[dense plover]

literally the opposite

they said the council was permanent

and there would not be another warchief

because the point of a warchief is for war

which is not going on

[rain cave]

Weird

I seem to remember something temporary about the council

Is it like Thrall won't be on it permanently?

He's just there to set it up?

[glass flicker]

You gotta know Thrall is still running most of the diplomatic affairs with the Alliance.

It's either him, Baine or Lor'themar.

[rain cave]

ye I know thrall is kind of their face atm

but he's also made a big point of him not wanting to lead

at least that's been my reading of it all

[dense plover]

i believe baine is the alliance liason

[dense plover]

this is probably the thing

[dense plover]

another wrath classic build

alpha/beta soon

[uncut vault]

There doesn’t really seem to be any actual designated ambassadors/liaisons with the alliance, according to shadows rising

The only way they communicate at all is because of Jaina’s friendship with thrall

And that’s via extremely remote boat conversation lol

[dense plover]

i thought baine and anduin were friends

[uncut vault]

They are, but that’s not really official faction communication either haha

And Anduin was more than a bit closed off in the wake of BfA, and now yknow

Both are in another dimension lol

We’re 100% gonna see it for stormwind, but I hope we see the ramifications of two major council members being entirely absent from the Horde for almost a year in story

Gonna be kinda dumb if they just come back and pretend like nothing happened and two entire races went on like normal

[ionic terrace]

soon

the only thing I really want is Battle for the Undercity

I never did get to do the horde version

[rain cave]

bald thrall can't hurt you he isn't real

[deep pawn]

I'd rather get DF alpha.

[dense plover]

wont launch until after wrath

probably 2-ish weeks after when the news has slowed

my guess is mid-late june for DF alpha

[deep pawn]

What news would there even be with wrath

[dense plover]

any changes they made

and it existing

[deep pawn]

We already know most changes I thought.

[dense plover]

gaming news is gaming news

BCC alpha/beta had news for a week or two

also they probably need more initial time to get talent trees ready

[deep pawn]

Every week I pray for the previews

June feels a bit like soon tm honestly, but whatever haha

[subtle oar]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/status/1527830185030164481?s=20&t=TILcOZhckJAturMLVQ197w

Ian Bates 💙 (@TheRedShirtGuy)

TLDR, there's files related to a Dark Ranger armor set that can only be transmogged/equipped by hunters.

Twitter · May 21, 2022, 1:54 AM

[deep pawn]

oooo

[cunning fossil]

Sweeeet

[rain cave]

so that's paladins and hunters down for a class/race questline customization

[glass flicker]

I'm sensing some favourtism for elves right about now.

[strange falcon]

Having 4 of them as playable didnt trigger your senses?

[glass flicker]

No. I must've missed the hint.

Sarcasm.

[rain cave]

elves are just trolls

don't see anyone complaining about troll favouritisim

[ember blaze]

dont we have more human races 🤔

big and fat humans, regular humans, really short humans, short humans, humans turned into dogs, really short humans half robot

https://tenor.com/view/snoopy-giggle-chuckle-lol-gif-10358212

[strange falcon]

That was already last years april fools joke from wowhead

[uncut lintel]

😏 ok but the female version better show tummy

[ember blaze]

@strange falconwas it? well i wasnt really joking

[deep pawn]

So far races are in 3 camps. Titanic races, troll races and mutations, and the miscellaneous. I think the misc group is just Tauren, Vulpera, and Goblins?

I think Dracthyr might join misc since they aren't exactly made by the Titans like normal dragons.

[dense plover]

Pretty sure goblins are mutated somehow

Tauren are native but empowered by the well and trolls are native too

Dracthyr are a created race - they’re unique

Neltharion made them

I guess that makes them close to the Drogbar maybe? Idk their origin

[deep pawn]

Goblins are mutated by kajamite but they aren't mutated trolls or devolved titanic creations

[dense plover]

Apparently they share a common ancestor with pygmies

So it was probably another native race

Drogbar are apparently failed titan creations according to Xalatath

[deep pawn]

kinda funny only 4 current playable races fall out of the "Trolls or Titans" dichotomy.

[dense plover]

Yeah

Tbf, goblins were created because they were mutated by mimiron, so they might be titan adjacent

[deep pawn]

oh? He planted Kajamite on purpose?

that I'm not as sure on. Probably since I was considering Orcs titan influenced since they're descended from races the Titans influenced to fight the botani

[rain cave]

misc is also draenei right?

but I mean tbf I'd say that the best way of splitting it is titanic races and just 'natural' races

there's a listing for natural races on the wow wiki

[deep pawn]

Oh right, Draenei, though given they're from a world soul planet who knows haha

[rain cave]

Dragons, Trolls -> elves, Gnolls, Harpy's, Murloc, Pandaren, Tauren, Tuskarr,

Dranei

etc

[deep pawn]

Does Chronicles even goes into their origins or just the height of their power

[crimson jasper]

what would we categorize SL races under? "Races that better wouldn't exist"? xd

[rain cave]

I mean, that's like saying what would you categorize naaru under

or demons, to a lesser extent

[crimson jasper]

what would we

extraterrestrial races? Gods?

[rain cave]

we don't know

we aren't sure where naaru come from in terms of origins

[deep pawn]

I consider dragons titan changed more so than natural. I guess they consider natural only races that don't come from the curse of flesh

[rain cave]

dragons are natural

because there's more natural dragons than changed dragons

and then also that means you consider elves under a similar umbrella instead of natural

I think they key difference is that like

titanforged punched down in evolution, to be come humans, dwarves, etc

whereas trolls punched up to become elves (arguably)

[crimson jasper]

l'd call that a downgrade xd

what about pandas btw, they were around a long time

[rain cave]

pandas are unkown but likely natural

[deep pawn]

I want to argue I'd only consider it truly natural if there's no arcane, fel, or void manipulation in their evolution.

So, trolls, tauren, vulpera, pandaren maybe

[rain cave]

but according to the cosmo chart life is just as much a force as those

🤓

also tauren are arguably titan changed if we want to keep debating the line

[deep pawn]

Life magic is nature damage so inherently natural haha

[rain cave]

and trolls death changed

in some regards

[deep pawn]

What did Titans do to Tauren evolution?

[rain cave]

depends if you think azeroth is a titan I suppose

since their culture revolves around her

and has definitely 'changed' them

[deep pawn]

Culture is fine, I'm looking mostly at physiology

There's no denying Titans and arcane magic drastically changed dragons and elves.

[rain cave]

however a lot of dragons aren't arcane/titan

just the main dragonflights

like protodrakes are natural

also nelf's were kind of evolved because of elune

not the titans

but arcane magic then caused the nelfs to be more highborne -> nightborne

or high elf

and then ofc blood elf

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they at some point just rolled everything into sections if they erode the faction barrier more

or just in general

like instead of picking a specific race you go to a dropdown and pick like

elf

and then in the elf menu you have all the elf types

or somesuch

because it could kind of reduce the clutter and allow for easier introduction of other race variations without it feeling like a full party

e.g. if they wanted to add the half ogre orcs like rexxar or something

it would be less of a "ugh another orc" or "this doesn't feel like a full race" and more of a customisation option type thing

even if they have their own racials and it is literally a race, it's presented more as a customisation option in the creation menu, and people received new options really well that was a big win for blizz

[deep pawn]

Pretty sure night elves are almost entirely the well of eternity which is arcane world soul blood

Sunwell turned them pale and blonde, nightwell darker and thinner.

[subtle oar]

uh not really x3

[subtle oar]

She had a hand in it, but they were changed mostly because of exposure to the Well of Eternity

[rain cave]

fair enough, on both points

[young latch]

Do we have a list of confirmed 9.2.5 and 10.0 transmogs coming so far?

I saw there's a mail chest piece on the way but I don't know where to find it or what else has been found.

[deep pawn]

only thing we have 100% so far is the Blood Knight set for belf paladins, the ranseurs, and the dark iron weapons

[ember blaze]

bloodknight set?

[deep pawn]

yeah

[ember blaze]

what's the relation to paladins

and a blood knight

[deep pawn]

Blood Elf paladins are called Blood Knights?

[ancient jasper]

Some of them, yes. I'm not sure all of them are, though.

[ember blaze]

i thought it was related to blood dk somehow

[deep pawn]

it's the Blood Elf equivalent of the Silver Hand

[upper pasture]

naw, blood elf paladins used to be the only paladins horde could have and used to have a spell "seal of blood" so

[subtle oar]

All

[nocturne totem]

Not my Blood Elf Paladin

[subtle oar]

Canonically, every Belf Pally is a Blood Knight.

[rain cave]

I'm assuming Arator isn't counted as a belf then

which seems obvious

but just for clarification

[subtle oar]

He's a Helf with the Silver Covenant

[rain cave]

fair

[nocturne totem]

Not mine though

[uncut vault]

RP characters aside, the PC blood elf paladin is canonically a blood knight

[subtle oar]

^

[rain cave]

There's no reason they have to be though

Canonically you could stop being a blood Knight, or a belf NPC could be just a normal paladin

Surely

[glass flicker]

They could just be Silver Hand paladins. Like Terenar Sunstrike.

He's a blood elf paladin without being a Blood Knight.

[subtle oar]

Nope

[rain cave]

Why not

Demo just said there's one in the messages after mine

[uncut vault]

There are silver hand ones, but Paladin in WoW is more of a profession than it is just a way you sling magic.

Hence why someone like Anduin isn’t a Paladin, despite being a plate using, sword wielding light user clearly favored by the light

He worships the light, but he’s not a member of the church or the silver hand, he doesn’t follow the tenets that make one a Paladin for humans

And it’s largely the same for all other paladins, all the other races are a part of a holy order with set ideals they follow (even if Blizz hasn’t actually told us those ideals lol), vindicators, prelates, Sunwalkers, and blood knights

[upper pasture]

Exclusively being a blood knight instead of an silver hand knight made since before the faction divided is being lifted. Now as old wounds are healing and races are being more accepting we are seeing things like BE paladins that are members on the sliver hand

[deep pawn]

I don't think Tarenar was a member of the Silver Hand prior to Legion. He wanted to join the Argent Crusade in cata.

And who knows what the actual current status of the Silver Hand is post Legion with BfA

[subtle oar]

The faction division is not being changed. Ion flat out said that the cross faction stuff will not be acknowledged in the lore

[deep pawn]

Yeah, I think Tarenar was a Blood Elf who wanted to join the Argent Crusade, eventually joined the Silver Hand in Legion when ALL the paladin groups were brought together, but that fell apart in BfA with the 4th war and Turalyon's return

[upper pasture]

you do realize i'm talking about the factions working together and not the players right?

[subtle oar]

The factions don't really tho. There isn't peace rn, there is no healing. There is an extremely tenuous armistice and some Warhawks in the Alliance who would love nothing more than an easy excuse to attack

[upper pasture]

back when WoW first came out Horde was Horde and Alliance was Alliance there was very few instances of cross faction helpfulness. as the story progressed factions relaxed a bit

[subtle oar]

Genn has not changed. He holds the entire horde responsible. He would love nothing more than to attack and Turalyon wants to reclaim lost Alliance territory

[upper pasture]

remember when we used to have different hub citys because we couldn't stand being near the other faction

ofc theres always gonna be people like that

but clearly things have changed and the factions are as divided as they once were

[subtle oar]

The factions haven't ever relaxed, at all. They've only ever fought together as allies of convenience against larger threats

[upper pasture]

okay whatever you say

[subtle oar]

Remember how Jaina, the leader of the Kirin tor refused to be a part of horde coming back to dalaran in Legion, so she left the kirin tor and fucked off?

[upper pasture]

and yet the Horde was admitted back to dalaran

[subtle oar]

Also the Kirin tor in Legion outright forbid fighting in Dalaran during legion

[subtle oar]

Dalaran is neutral, it does not take sides. That's why the Kirin tor did not aid the Alliance in the 4th war

Jaina wanted the Kirin tor to join the alliance but she was out voted

[upper pasture]

you cannot tell me that from release to now you don't think in the slightest bit the factions are a tiny bit more relaxed with each other

[subtle oar]

Genn got off Scott free after attacking the Forsaken in Stormheim

[subtle oar]

Nope. They have not relaxed.

I see the exact say burning hatreds

Same*

[upper pasture]

sure there will always be the "oh screw the other side people" but a general stand point common folk aren't as pressed to kill the other side

[subtle oar]

Incorrect. Some of the leadership don't want that, but the bulk of the populations of either side, do

[upper pasture]

🤷‍♂️

[deep pawn]

I think we'll see one last "war" but it'll mostly be the Light Zealots of the Alliance getting a smack down

[urban spire]

it wont be an alliance war tho

I think that'll be 11.0

yrel will come from au draenor and ally with turaylon, and the alliance will have a split kind of like the horde did but one thats way more severe and decided

to the extent that player characters will not be able to align with the light sided alliance

and it will mostly be an npc split and character like anduin will stick on the non-light side alliance

the normal one

and then my hope is we get a SoO but for stormwind because that would be cool af

but I like that the devs are actively doing things to encourage world pvp still regardless of the current faction feelings

like how they said the boats we take to dragon isles will be close enough to jump to one another and then we can have world pvp there

that sounds awesome

and it being completely opt out is perfect

[plain violet]

Because the cross faction stuff was already acknowledged in the lore by the NPC who worked together despite everything.

He said it himself, that was absurd to not let players do it when in lore, that was possible by multiple organisations.

Druids, shamans, orders halls, teaming up in Northend, Kalimdor, Legion...

And the armistice is maybe tedious, but the peace was also more relaxed, he also have said that's the starting point of Dragonflight : the more relaxed situation led to a conjoint operation that is not even military, to discover new grounds.

[subtle oar]

No.

[urban spire]

alright man you obviously dont care for the facts and just want to continue perpetuating the faction conflict despite the actual fact that it's been relaxed and the devs, as well as direct narratives in the game, have proven that the faction conflict is pretty much over except for small pockets here and there.

[ember blaze]

They will never admit they are wrong

[subtle oar]

Can't admit fault when you were never in the wrong.

[plain violet]

But you are. Seriously, even Ion have said it.

It was even in multiples interviews that wars are over and that if faction conflict there is, it will be for small pockets and parts of factions, not Horde vs Alliance, as everyone have learned.

And for all this "WoW is faction war"

"But really from Warcraft 3 onwards, I think the ideals of Warcraft have been adventure, exploration, but also the fact that we actually fundamentally have more in common than what separates us. That Alliance and Horde are both defending their homes, searching for homes, fighting for family, for honor, for justice."

[uncut lintel]

just remove war from the name

world of craft

[plain violet]

Or you know, this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nPloFgHkM

Or this : https://www.ign.com/videos/world-of-warcraft-developers-break-down-the-new-dragonflight-expansion
Each of which talked about how it's a common expedition.

[plain violet]

Well, people have a bad tendancy to think warcraft is "war against each other", but since W3, warcraft was "uniting against menaces"

[uncut lintel]

but i dont want to keep fighting I WANNA CHILL with meh troll bros as a worgen

[plain violet]

The message of W3 was Horde and Alliance together. And for each expansion, until, finally, we broke the cycle.

[uncut lintel]

ppl gonna be mad when we fully merge in 5 yrs hahahahfedsiwafjaswfjusfj

[plain violet]

And we will.

And you will. :)

[uncut lintel]

i will be happy if it happens

ofc it needs limit but just being able to chill would be sweet

leveling up with ur ally friends

in a grp

[plain violet]

We will. The crossfaction from 9.2.5 is already a beginning, and a good one. :)

[uncut lintel]

without a language potion

[plain violet]

Yeah, and playing in dungeons.

Groups...

Finally.

[subtle oar]

No

[subtle oar]

I can slightly agree with that, so long as it makes sense for the race you are playing

[uncut lintel]

?

[plain violet]

Yes.

Just read the links.

[uncut lintel]

theres no need for a language barrier if we are getting compatable content

[plain violet]

Just play W3.

[uncut lintel]

at all

unless like in pvp ofc i guess

[plain violet]

"But really from Warcraft 3 onwards, I think the ideals of Warcraft have been adventure, exploration, but also the fact that we actually fundamentally have more in common than what separates us. That Alliance and Horde are both defending their homes, searching for homes, fighting for family, for honor, for justice."

Here we go again : that the idea from W3 was not even war against each other anymore.

Since Vanilla, the idea is to put differences aside.

[subtle oar]

I have. They dont prove you right. Ion outright said the Cross-faction features will not be a part of the lore nor acknowledged in the lore. Ion flat out said they are not removing factions nor are they going to start making the factions be best friends or good guys to each other. They fully acknowledge there are still burning hatreds so instead of telling all out warfare, they want to try to examine the more grounded conflicts. They have never once said they are relaxing the faction divides.

[plain violet]

He said it because it's already acknowledged in the lore, Baifeng, are you deaf?

[subtle oar]

No, its not.

[uncut lintel]

cant wait to see this convo in some years when latest news shows up with, official podcast alliance and horde merge 100% details

[subtle oar]

lol x3

[uncut lintel]

FACTION MOUNTS NO LONGER LOCKED PLEAASE

[plain violet]

Dude, there is the cenarion circle, the shamans, the orders halls, the armistice.

[uncut lintel]

[subtle oar]

All neutral orgs and the armistice is not a peace treaty

You realize an armistice is just a formal cease fire?

[plain violet]

It is a peace treaty, treated as such in Shadow Rising, with multiple guarantees, reason why Dragonflight happen, as the relaxed relations allow for this.

[subtle oar]

No, its not.

[uncut lintel]

well

saurfang is anduins second dad now

[subtle oar]

armistice, an agreement for the cessation of active hostilities between two or more belligerents.

[uncut lintel]

soooo

[subtle oar]

It is a formal cease fire

[plain violet]

And gosh, neutral org that are still part Horde, par Alliance with their members. Hamuul is Horde and from the Circle, that's the idea.

[subtle oar]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, and thats okay.

[plain violet]

Just read Shadow Rising, they treat it as such, there is guarantee to not break, such as no spy, or no post in others territories.

[uncut lintel]

i thought book wasnt canon to game

[plain violet]

Here we go, from.your "they dont acknowledge it"

[subtle oar]

No, they don't? Not once are they ever treating it as a peace treaty. The Alliance fully recognized that if Shaw is caught in Zandalar it could renew all out war.

[plain violet]

Hazzikostas says there probably won't be a story acknowledgment about the gameplay change, as the factions are currently already at an armistice

Hazzikostas says there probably won't be a story acknowledgment about the gameplay change, as the factions are currently already at an armistice

No need of it because the lore already permit it

[subtle oar]

xD

[uncut lintel]

[subtle oar]

You do not know what the words you use mean.

[plain violet]

Because it breaks the guarantees: no Alliance presence in Zandalar, they state it.

And you do not know how to read.

The word already is really important here.

[subtle oar]

Yes I do. Enough with the ad hom attacks just because you disagree with me.

[plain violet]

You use as an argument that Ion have said they will not acknolewdge it. Surely, because they do not need of, as the situation is already good enough for it.

[subtle oar]

No.

[plain violet]

Oh, because you were not in ad hom attack with this? 🙃

You keep saying no like a child Baifeng.

I linked to you multiples sources, you just know to say no.

[subtle oar]

Thats not an ad hom. You have said the the wrong thing about what armistice means. You however, attacked me, accusing me of not being able to read, which is ablist language

[subtle oar]

All your sources agree with me. Ion said they acknowledge theyr are clear hatreds and divides between the factions that they want to explore without going with another BfA or MoP, wanting to explore more grounded conflicts that tell a more personal story

They are not relaxing the divides, but infact going to try to tell better stories about the divides

[plain violet]

I do not have said the wrong thing. I used this to refer as the word already. We could argue with reason than a peace treaty is officially different: however an armistice already tell the end of a war, for example the 1954 Indochine one.

[plain violet]

And they do agree with me too:
Even if they are, there will not be anymore all-outs wars. Exploring dividing do not exclude the crossfaction and the idea of peace installing, that is the core tenet of Dragonflight expansion: a conjoint expedition, a collaboration between two scientific organization of the Horde and Alliance, that are not neutral.

"The Dragonscale Expedition is this mix of Explorers League from the Alliance and the Reliquary from the Horde; and they’ll be in a partnering together with us to discover more about the Dragon Isles."

"The Horde and Alliance will be on their own boats, but together."

[subtle oar]

Peace is not a core tenet of Dragonflight, it is exploration and learning, as Ion said. We are taking part in expeditions to learn of this new land. If they wanted it to be about peace, they would have explicitly said so and not have included the ability to invade the other factions ship to kill and attack them in the opening of the xpac.

[plain violet]

Sure there is the possibility of fighting, as it should be.
However, this fighting is in the same time of the collaboration that is explained in the Deep Dive, part of the relaxation.

[subtle oar]

We'll just have to agree to disagree as this is going nowhere. I feel like you are trying to engage with what Im saying, and no doubt you feel the same about me so might as well stop before it gets more heated.

[plain violet]

I have said peace installing. However peace tenet should have been replaced by "the starting of the expansion", because without it, it's not even possible.
Exploring is a thing, but this exploration is done by the two acting togethers.

We have this from the dracthyr interview too

Let me search the source..

[uncut lintel]

[plain violet]

Found! https://worldofwarcraft.judgehype.com/news/interview-exclusive-dragonflight-ion-hazzikostas-nous-parle-de-l-avenir-de-wow-169303/
"Cependant, le choix n'est pas similaire à celui des Pandaren dans Mists of Pandaria, où l'extension proposaient une composante réellement dédiée à la rivalité entre les deux factions. Dans Dragonflight, il s'agit d'un choix entre deux expéditions vers les nouvelles zones. Les relations entre les deux factions s'est adoucie. C'est le joueur qui choisira celle vers laquelle il s'oriente, mais ça concerne surtout un point de vue pratique, plus qu'un choix philosophique pour les Dracthyrs."

[ionic terrace]

new ptr build

finally

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/921048245633953832/978462709471408139/unknown.png

[uncut lintel]

wuts in it

[cosmic beacon]

ur mom

[deep pawn]

OH SNAP

The guess it'd be out before Immortal was right

[uncut lintel]

@cosmic beacon wish u saw me accidentally post the emoji then earlier

[cosmic beacon]

what

[mossy meteor]

@ionic terrace @cosmic beacon meow

[cosmic beacon]

Greetings Ophin

[deep pawn]

31st or 7th eh?

[glass flicker]

I think 7th is more likely.

31st would be too early.

[deep pawn]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/status/1528909822648733696

Simaia - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturn)

well hello there... almost 200 new encrypted files and PTR has been set to Release candidate. So... 9.2.5 in a week or two?👀

Twitter · May 24, 2022, 1:24 AM

[upper pasture]

release candidate 👀

[plain violet]

Finally!

[languid yoke]

other time frames:
9.2 release candidate Feb 11th (Fri), release Feb 22nd
9.1.5 release candidate Oct 22nd (Fri), release Nov 2nd
9.1 release candidate June 18th (Fri), release June 29th
9.0.5 release candidate March 2nd (Tue), release March 9th

so... 👀

[cunning fossil]

Exciting

I would bet one or two weeks till launch

[ember blaze]

And pets! I leveled up my finduin, but after I switched to horde I was devastated to find out I can’t use it….

[ember blaze]

Oh man that’s so soon.

I need to get my ksm 😓

Will the heroic jailer mount be gone with this patch?

[cunning fossil]

When season 4 starts

Not when 9.2.5 launches

[uncut lintel]

didnt 9.2 just release

why would 9.2.5 release so soon

[ember blaze]

eh, everything about sl has lasted an eternity

[uncut lintel]

LMFAO

rtu

tru

i just want dragonflight

[ember blaze]

unintentional pun 😂

[ember blaze]

SAME, AND PLAY AS DRAGON

[uncut lintel]

ugh

i am excited for 9.2.5 tho

bcuz we get jellycat mount

but i really wanna play a dragon

CMONNN

[ember blaze]

im happy it wont have a big requirement

like the book one

[uncut lintel]

yea u can do it in any raid difficulty including lfr

so

[ember blaze]

i gave up with tower after failing so many times trying to get tank bear form

[uncut lintel]

[ember blaze]

my druid staying in the trash

[uncut lintel]

havent tried new mage tower

but most of ppl ik have em all already

idk how

[ember blaze]

not a fan of the mog rewards so i dont care much about it

just wanted bear form

but i wont really be bear tanking so im over it

[uncut lintel]

i still prefer the original forms u got in legion

i only got the cat but fel bear just looks weird

maybe i just like bland bears

[ember blaze]

i wish i had the forms from legion so it could have saved me some sanity

but i was an argus patch wow baby

and i only played priest

so i only got those appearances

[uncut lintel]

priest

[ember blaze]

and it was insanely easy even as a new player

cause i just outgeared the tower

😂

[uncut lintel]

yea

but now tower is scaled

so its like

90% harder

[plain violet]

Guilds already possible by glitch. Oh, yeah.

[uncut lintel]

its a glitch now

but soon the future will be real

[plain violet]

It will!

[uncut lintel]

then baifeng be mad

[languid yoke]

if you get mad at x-fac guilds your opinion is wrong

[ember blaze]

😂

[subtle oar]

???

Why would I be mad, foxy?

[uncut lintel]

joke

it was a joke

from conversation yday

[nocturne totem]

Person should have never reported the guild bug so someone could potentially do it on live then Blizz would have to deal with making a decision about it and the fallout if they disbanded the guilds.

[strange falcon]

You have to understand most wow players dont think that far, it was an anomaly that a player even reported it in the first place

[subtle oar]

It was MrGM.

[plain violet]

I do fear players being dramatic about it, yes...

[rain cave]

if it's already in the game working why remove it as a bug :D

silly blizz

[dense plover]

Because it isn’t a tested fully functioning feature. It will have greater bugs because so much of the architecture of the game is built upon requiring factions

[rain cave]

🙄

[uncut vault]

The goal for cross-faction implementation is to have it work properly, and not be only possible via instances and potentially fuck up character history haha

I wish they'd just make the plunge already, but they clearly don't want to yet for 9.2.5

[dense plover]

^ it probably needs some massive changes that need testing. You can’t just get rid of it because it’s how enemies know if they need to be hostile, which quests are available, dialogue choices, etc

[plain violet]

They can do it, we will have in due time. But this glitch is something I conceived as a sign they really have advanced.

[glass flicker]

What I hope they do soon, is making the rogue Survivor's Bag of Coins be usable on more than one character.

Like, even if you get it on alts, you can't use it. Why?

[plain violet]

I didn't knew that, having only one rogue... strange.

[uncut lintel]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/shadowlands-patch-9-2-5-releases-on-may-31st-327162?webhook

@trail knot i owe u gold

[trail knot]

ez

[uncut lintel]

how did u kno

u hacks

[nocturne totem]

Season 4 doesn't start immediately with 9.2.5, right?

[cunning fossil]

Yes

[uncut lintel]

dragonflight pre patch end of 2022?

please

@strange falcon

[cosmic beacon]

[uncut lintel]

arch

dont click my profile

[cosmic beacon]

ok

i wont

[deep pawn]

Hey, 31st, my earlier guess was right

[dense plover]

Probably start of 2023

Prepatch typically needs a ton of rapid bug fixes and tuning that can’t be done over a holiday break

It’s far more likely to drop 2nd or 3rd week of Jan with full expac in March

[uncut vault]

Eh, I think december prepatch makes sense, allows them to get earnings up in both quarters, sub sales for prepatch in Q4 2022 and the actual xpac sales for Q1 2023

[dense plover]

We will need to wait for alpha to be sure. We need to see how far along stuff is

[strange falcon]

Now porter is thinking like actiblizz execs

[rain cave]

I could also see them doing a longer prepatch

just so we can get our hands on newer stuff sooner without it being like

[trail knot]

its two furries making out

[rain cave]

expansion dropping

[deep pawn]

There better be a talent preview June first

[cunning fossil]

I hope so ngl

I'm BEGGING

I wanna make a utility heavy DPS already

Literally doing whatever the fuck I want

[deep pawn]

So s4 this summer. I honestly expected it first week of fall

That said September 15th isn't drastically different than say September 22

[ember blaze]

@uncut lintelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49e5eBDC3co

[uncut lintel]

PRE PATCH 2022

[cunning fossil]

Late 2022 I would think it

[strange falcon]

I mean, i personally would trust mrpeachs words from yesterday more than just pure hopium, but you guys are the ones consuming vast amounts of it

[uncut lintel]

no one said anything to hurt you dafire

[cunning fossil]

You come in here to "Well Actually" and accuse people of being on hopium everyday daf

I'm not even saying it's 100%

But I would think that December 2022 is the closest time to when prepatch could hit. Though, I'm not completely sold on that

[uncut lintel]

yea

im hoping for 2022 pre patch but im not saying itll happen either, ill still be happy if we get it q1 of 2023, i just wanna play my dragon and be happy DAFIRE HATES HAPPYNESS

[plain violet]

That's pretty interesting to see, yes.

[dense plover]

If they do prepatch in 2022, it likely means a longer prepatch

I don’t see expac before March

January and February are not months you release big games in because people don’t have money after Christmas

So it’s possible to drop prepatch late nov/early dec, and get some expac purchases for early evoker access in prepatch so they can have a decent Q4, but I personally think it makes more sense to have a very strong Q1

[cosmic beacon]

I’d prefer them drop it next year tbh

[dense plover]

Same

[cosmic beacon]

Gives them enough time to playtest and make sure every little thing is fixed and actually improved unlike sl ptr

[dense plover]

But we also have no idea on the state of things. Tbf, it seems like the system focus here is on talents and professions. I’m not quite sure what they plan for endgame activity other than reps, maybe something similar to ZM?

Endgame is the big area that still seems a bit empty for DF. Normally borrowed power provides a targeted grind but without that, it’s sorta unclear what our focus will be

[strange falcon]

If they have a more relaxed approach like basically most mmos nowadays, i think the monogame andies, to not call them addicts, might revolt

[dense plover]

I think some kind of endless grind that doesn’t give player power is okay

I’m sad we aren’t getting Torghast 2.0

But there needs to be something to target that isn’t just reputations

[cunning fossil]

Pre patch event might give us a limited time event like SL

Could be neat!

[cosmic beacon]

Why u putting skull

Prepatch events are dope and hopefully it gives us more unique stuff to get

I still have my keepsake so my lil ghost Daniel follows me around

[ember blaze]

i got that 34 slot bag from last prepatch on a char i dont play anymore 😶

[cunning fossil]

Lol

[ember blaze]

can you still buy from that one vendor? i still got like 400 badges on that char 🤔

[cunning fossil]

Pis the vendor still there?

I'm honestly not sure. I feel like the answer is no

[deep pawn]

One interview said they only had a 2 week prepatch event planned

[rain cave]

prepatch event

as opposed to prepatch itself

[deep pawn]

Last few expansions they've lined up

[urban spire]

yeah ion directly said it was planned to be only a 2 week pre-patch

[dense plover]

Wrath beta is on submission. Probably going live next week or the week after

[glass flicker]

Would they risk a release so close to 9.2.5?

[dense plover]

Yes

Different audiences

Also beta isn’t open/public

So for the majority, it’s just watching streams and reading blogs

[deep pawn]

Wake me for 10.0 alpha

[plain violet]

"Wake me, when you need me"

[glass flicker]

High elves: Wake me up when you go, go
Blood elves: Wake me up, when September ends
Void elves: Wake me up! Wake me up inside!

Kyle: Wake me up when dragons.

[plain violet]

Oh, good references for the music. 😁

[glass flicker]

Thank you!

[deep pawn]

How the hell does eq2 have nukes and heals conditionally use target of target default when for WoW that requires a ton of macros.

[opaque pewter]

Target of target by default seems like a bad recipe in PvP. Sometimes it's best to let the player decide themselves

[deep pawn]

Maybe a toggle? Cause honestly it feels great to have a tank targeted and casting a nuke on his target. I think you can mimic that with some harm noharm macros but that is so clunky and you have to do it for every spell.

[subtle oar]

Nah, not clunky at all.

Target of Target by default is hella busted

[deep pawn]

How so?

[wet lark]

If they are targeting you, you'd default into targeting yourself lol

[nocturne totem]

I'd assume you wouldn't have all of your buttons macroed to targetoftarget

[wet lark]

Alt allows you to cast beneficial spells on yourself

[deep pawn]

If your tank is targeting you and you cast a heal it'll heal the tank. It only goes target of target if the spell you cast won't land on your target. So if you target your tank, nukes will hit his target. If you're targeting a mob heals will heal what the mob is targeting unless you do something to self cast. I'm just struggling outside of niche cases like pvp where that wouldn't be nice.

[vernal juniper]

is it a bug?

https://i.imgur.com/uIswljG.png https://i.imgur.com/mxkswCy.png

shouldn't be now account wide? The achievment is earned on account wide

[cosmic beacon]

Iirc they aren’t account wide yet since it’s not a blue achievement

[vernal juniper]

https://i.imgur.com/oXLe9jq.png

[cosmic beacon]

It says they are visible and count towards achieve points

And that you still need to be that cov to earn it
It never says the rewards etc are account wide

[vernal juniper]

thats my point

I already done the achi for that conv on another toon

so in the second too on the same cov I have the achi done

so the item should be unlocked since the achi is "bind on conv"

[stable peak]

When are we getting the new class/race combos, and the vendor trash transmog? I don't see those in the patch notes. Is that for DF?

[subtle oar]

Race class combos come with prepatch @stable peak

[stable peak]

okay! Thank you!

[nocturne totem]

The gray and white item mog does not have a planned date yet. All Ion has said is that they would like to do it "by Dragonflight".

[subtle oar]

Likely prepatch too

[uncut lintel]

E

[upper pasture]

probably help if you wait until the patch goes live no?

[dense plover]

Lol, ^this

Must’ve been tired

[vernal juniper]

well, path is live on ptr

[dense plover]

Achievements don’t copy correctly

They never have

[cunning sleet]

Is there a stream later today?

[ivory meadow]

no... why would there be?

[cunning sleet]

Well I was hoping to go over everything from 9.2.5.

[ivory meadow]

There's an overview post about 9.2.5 on Wowhead already.

wait...

no, there isn't.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/patch-9-2-5-shadowlands-eternitys-end#class-changes-in-patch-9-2-5

[subtle oar]

There might be as all the encrypted files will no longer be encrypted

[rain cave]

wowhead also says the questlines are live

even though the game isn't even live atm

[soft flower]

Preorder goes live today?

[subtle oar]

No. They said their Guides for the questlines are live

[ancient jasper]

I.. really doubt we'll see preorder today.

[subtle oar]

Who knows.

[rain cave]

weird then

since the patch isn't live it's weird that there's a guide already

since nobody can play it

[subtle oar]

Why?

[rain cave]

because it's not out

[subtle oar]

And?

[rain cave]

so how would we have a complete guide

[subtle oar]

The content goes live today

[rain cave]

yeah

ik

but we don't know exactly what it will be like when it launches

might be some last minute adjustments

it's just weird to me to post a guide for something that's not out yet

especially the writing a blog post saying you wrote a blog post for it

like it wouldn't stick out to me if they just posted the two posts, but there's like an advertisment for the posts that aren't even there

strange

[subtle oar]

It's the best time for the guides to go live

Just before the content itself goes live

[rain cave]

I would say it's best once people have played it

and it's gone live

[subtle oar]

No

[rain cave]

otherwise the guide won't be reliable

potentially

[subtle oar]

It us reliable

[ancient jasper]

Has the patch even been pushed to Live yet?

[ivory meadow]

Yes, just servers need to come up

[subtle oar]

Yup. Servers come.e back-up after maintenance ends at 3pm pdt/6pm EST

Nvm. Maintenance just got pushed back again. Now to 5pm PDT

[rain cave]

so is anyone datamining?

curious to see what gets found before servers go live

[deep pawn]

Glad I'm playing eq2 today

[subtle oar]

LMFAO

[subtle oar]

Play FF like a civilized person x3

[uncut lintel]

@subtle oar DONT INQSULT EQ2

eq2 was my childhood

ur lucky i even wanted to play WoW

me and u would not be frens otherwise id bein eq2 a dead game

[subtle oar]

I will cause its bad uwu

No Pandas, No Vulpera

[uncut lintel]

@subtle oar they had lizards, dragons, half vampire that cna turn into bats, they have multiple cats, a rat, they had more than wow ever will

they legit had faeries and frogs

[subtle oar]

Pandas and Vulpera > those

[uncut lintel]

no

[subtle oar]

Yes

[uncut lintel]

NO

[deep pawn]

Rat!

[glass flicker]

Eugh, when did WoW's graphics downgrade so much?

And why is that vulpera so tall?

[uncut lintel]

LMFAO

[deep pawn]

haha, yeah, graphics are dated but I'm not a snob

[glass flicker]

You said rat. So it's definitely a vulpera.

[deep pawn]

he's a rat that can turn into a wolf cause he's a druid!

[ancient jasper]

Huh

Looks like Elves are getting Dark Ranger customization stuff

So I assume like the Night Elves Night Warrior eyes

[deep pawn]

EQ2 has Two cat races, a rat race, a lizard race, a dragon/lizard hybrid. A dragon race, and a frog race.

[crimson jasper]

l am so glad that it is just costumization and not ANOTHER elf race

[deep pawn]

another thing that likely won't work with demon hunters eh?

That said... dark ranger blood elf paladins...

ewww

[upper pasture]

CAT RACE!

wait how many pixels are in this game?

[deep pawn]

Enough?

[ancient jasper]

Mmm.. About 5

[deep pawn]

the cat races are a bit weird though, faces are too flat.

[crimson jasper]

kinda unfair elves get everything and other races are left in the dust

but long as it makes people happy it's fine

just add some stuff for other races than elves at some point

[uncut lintel]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-dark-rangers-attire-transmog-set-coming-in-patch-9-2-5-for-hunters-327217#comments AHAHHAHAA IT LOOKS SO BAD

@subtle oar

[ancient jasper]

Meh.. Also locked to Hunter only

[deep pawn]

Who the hell plays elf hunters, bah

[uncut lintel]

[crimson jasper]

wow you are right it sucks, perfect xd

[uncut lintel]

trust me blizzard does not give a single fuck abt us other races

once they make drathyr they are gonna 100% focus on drathyr

[crimson jasper]

sad but true

[uncut lintel]

wheres my extar vulp customs plz

MY TROLL HERITAGE

WHERE

[crimson jasper]

Make Vulp Visage form

not only stinky scale elf and human

[uncut lintel]

true

[ancient jasper]

I don't think the Character Customization is locked to Hunter though so that might be a good thing

[dense plover]

Fairly certain the customization is wrong

The models are probably encrypted

I’m pretty sure that is literally an old set

I think once people get the dark ranger armor on live or once they check the item on live, it’ll look different

I’m like 90% sure

[ember blaze]

Nightborne 😶

[dense plover]

I mean - considering the vast number of new customization entry values datamined a while ago, assuming those aren’t just for Drakthyr, it’s possible we will see more customization options for other races

Allied races are probably pretty low on that list though

[crimson jasper]

still a full on extra Elf race, l bet they gonna get some kinda costumization down the line xd

and well it's life so let's see what's new l guess hehe

[ember blaze]

everything about them has been half assed

[crimson jasper]

l cant deny that

[subtle oar]

Its the Dark Ranger set from 8.1/

[glass flicker]

Oh, gods. Tyrande better not plant the new seed where Teldrassil was. It'd be much better off near Silithus.

Better yet, imagine a Felwood rework. It's the most forgotten zone in WoW, probably ever.

Even the Swamp of Sorrows is more popular.

Place the new world tree in Felwood.

[subtle oar]

Why Silithus? O-o

[glass flicker]

Because there's a toothpick the size of a moon stuck in there.

And I said near it.

[uncut lintel]

felwood would be sick

[ancient jasper]

Wouldn't planting it that close to Old God Corruption be.. not a great idea?

[glass flicker]

It would be. But C'thun has been deaded dead for years.

Yogg was alive when Vordrassil was up.

[young latch]

I'm not seeing any grey armor that became moggable? Have folks found any that is moggable yet in the new patch?

[ancient jasper]

Uh.. Didn't we find out Old Gods never really die?

[glass flicker]

Dragonflight.

[glass flicker]

They retconned it.

[young latch]

Ah, I thought it was this patch. That's a shame.

[glass flicker]

So, us mortals and also the Wild Gods go to the Shadowlands when we die. Old Gods go back to the void, Titans go to their own realm, etc. But Argus was so messed up by the Nathrezim that he went to the Shadowlands and turned off the Arbiter.

That much has been confirmed.

[dense plover]

Is it? I don’t think that set was ever given a unique model. Wasn’t it just old placeholder models?

[subtle oar]

Thats 10.0 or prepatch not 9.2.5

[subtle oar]

Nah. Its been in the files since 8.1 but was never given to the players.

[dense plover]

But was it a unique model then? I’m pretty sure it was named armor with no unique model

[subtle oar]

It was

[dense plover]

I’m very curious if it actually looks like that in game today

[subtle oar]

It was that armor

[dense plover]

Or if it’s just the data mining stuff

I want to see someone with the set in game. The wowhead article was from PTR

so if the model was encrypted, you still wouldn’t see it

[subtle oar]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-dark-rangers-attire-transmog-set-coming-in-patch-9-2-5-for-hunters-327217

The article is from Live, not ptr

[glass flicker]

Mom, can we have Nathanos Blightcaller?

We have Nathanos Blightcaller at home.

Nathanos Blightcaller at home.

[dense plover]

It can’t be from live though. Servers weren’t up when they datamined this

It is from PTR

[subtle oar]

They claim it was

[dense plover]

Either that or they ran their own client

In which case the models would still be encrypted

Oh look

New article shows it isn’t that weird green color

And it actually looks decent

[subtle oar]

Literally the same same, Peach

[glass flicker]

I like the shoulders, they're a Tanaan leather recolour.

Actually, most of the set, minus the boots is Tanaan leather.

Those boots are from questing in Legion as leather.

Funny, that.

[ancient jasper]

What the actual fuck, Blizz.. x_x

[glass flicker]

XD

Also also.

Derek has an unique hairstyle unavailable to human males.

[dense plover]

Huh ok I’m blind

[glass flicker]

You are?

[uncut vault]

well thats more because its a totally unique model 😛

[deep pawn]

From Dark Lady to Pallid Lady.

Name is a downgrade

[rain cave]

I like pallid lady

Sounds like something you'd hear from dark souls lore

[strange falcon]

well they cant name her "white lady" after all the allegations etc

[rain cave]

she ain't even white

that's the thing

pallid is the perfect word for it

[subtle oar]

Pale would have been better

[rain cave]

pallid is just a not as nice word for pale

which I feel is fitting

the old "cabin in the woods" vs "cottage in the forest" effect

she's not meant to be this pale beautiful perfect person

she's a corpse animated by energy

her skin tone is sickly

[subtle oar]

The Pale Lady would have been cooler

"Champion of the Pale Lady"

Pallid Lady is a mouthful and clunky

[plain violet]

I agree, Pallid work more on the death thing.

Pale Lady is "cool", but I think that's the thing, Calia doesn't see this as "cool", she's undead, and Pallid work best.

[subtle oar]

Agree to disagree.

[rain cave]

Pale lady is also just a very done trope I think

but if you want an improved way of using Pallid

you could go for

"The Lady Pallid"

"Champion of the Lady Pallid"

it's almost shakespearian

[subtle oar]

That's honestly even worse

[rain cave]

how

[grand bane]

dumb question, but can demon hunters use the dark ranger customization as well?

[upper pasture]

no, DKs and DHs cannot

[grand bane]

damnit

another question, how come when i look up 'Back from beyond' in the achievement tab, it doesnt show?

[upper pasture]

sometimes meta achievements don't show up until you complete them

[rain cave]

weird that DK's can't

considering they are not only already dead

but even have a class trainer who uses the same customisations

[upper pasture]

i mean, i'm not a dev so

[rain cave]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lady_Alistra

changing DK eye colour would be a nice customisation tho for sure

just in general

purple, red, green, maybe even a white/black option like shadowlands logo

[plain violet]

We can ask for this yes.

[rain cave]

however I'd still like them to fix frost strikes animation

😭

[plain violet]

Wait it's bugged ?

[rain cave]

the changed it to do racial animation instead of one of the global melee animations at the start of shadowlands

so instead of having the clean animation it used to have of a simple strike

now races like belf do backflips every single frost strike

[plain violet]

That... can be strange to look at, I admit.

[rain cave]

considering how bad of a change it is I refuse to accept they changed it intentionally

or changed it for sake of it looking better to them

it actually made me not play DK this xpac

I got one ready for prepatch

then prepatch came round and I just had to put it down

[plain violet]

It's a bit like the feral sound that change between patchs...

[rain cave]

couldn't stand it

[plain violet]

I can understand, visual play a lot to the pleasure and feeling of a character.

[rain cave]

a note on the pallid discussion

one of the abilities she casts is Pallid shield

I'm thinking that when we get round to adding paladin to every race

they'll start flavouring the class race combos even more

pallid might be the undeads keyword for their light stuff

like blood knights for belf

undead are unironically going to be pallid-ins

[glass flicker]

I mean, they've got keywords like these for every race+class combo and won't use them.

Nelf? Lunar. Belf? Solar/Bloodied, etc.

[rain cave]

ye

[nocturne totem]

Demon Hunter Tauren when

[rain cave]

I just find it funny how undead have a pun for theirs basically

btw is the dark ranger quest bugged?

I didn't get the set

I have the customisations but not the set

I did the handin quest for velonara but there was no reward

[nocturne totem]

I read someone say you have to go to the hunter order hall or something

[rain cave]

I am there atm

[nocturne totem]

From a vendor

Not a hunter so I don't know exactly 🤷

[rain cave]

oh it's from a vendor?

bruh it is

😂 that's so weird