beta-ptr-spoilers

[uncut lintel]

fuck casuals amirite

[subtle oar]

I'll continue to argue LFR is not friendly to Casuals in its current version, but thats a ded debate

[uncut lintel]

well i mean its more friendly and not time overly consuming

plus i dont do H raids or normals

because i suc

i just pray lfr like just let us have this one thing

please

S4 is supposed to be fun for all

[subtle oar]

To each their own

[uncut lintel]

or u can acrry me in H sephular

[subtle oar]

I havent done much of the new raid because I hate it and the majority of 9.2

[uncut lintel]

: (

[subtle oar]

Just kinda getting my alts caught up somewhat so they are hardstuck when going into 10.0

[uncut lintel]

damn

im gonna just have to make my own H group if it requires that and hope for the best

i cba to do normal raid

[subtle oar]

Normal is easier than LFR and Heroic. 100%

[uncut lintel]

some are on LFR as we seen in previous screenshots but idk abt sephular

see

: (

some ppl say its wrong but i feel like its blizzard and they would do this

[subtle oar]

Come S4, I'll help ya get it

[uncut lintel]

i pray its all lfr but if its not ima just have to like IM IGHT HAVE TO CONCURE MY WORST FEAR AND PLAY BALANCE DRUID NOOO

being a druid and not being a cat is is,, AWFUL

[subtle oar]

Hun, its norms.

[uncut lintel]

nah its lfr

theres screenshots

[subtle oar]

People are far more forgiving for underperforming specs in norms

[uncut lintel]

of fated lfr

oh

wait

im an idiot

im just not sure on sephular

[uncut lintel]

ive heard but idk never tried

i never really try anything new because i know 100% i suck at everything even in the game

[subtle oar]

Try it. I bet you'd enjoy the game more with a fun guild that does casual norms. You'd enjoy the raids more too

[uncut lintel]

ahah yeaa... a raiding guild on my server i wonder if that exists i play on bloodscalp dead server

[subtle oar]

Plus, you'd cultivate more simps

[uncut lintel]

😏

get me a simp to buy me that lizard mount

LOL

[subtle oar]

pffft

[uncut lintel]

no im still not over it being overpriced for one retail mount

[subtle oar]

I've simped b4 and gotten you nitro, but I'd get you nitro again before Id buy you a store mount

[uncut lintel]

its a waste of money to buy that lizard mount if its not atleast 20-30 bucks anyway

like holy fuck bro i dont play classic, 70 dollars for one retail mount THAT ISNT BLIZZCON FU BRO

blizzcon idc bcuz they dont brign tat shit back but cmon 😏 cmon, we all know that wotlk classic mount is gonna cost even more

updated sparkle pony for wotlk classic bundle

[subtle oar]

I pray one day Blizz will make all the store mounts earnable in game thru some long, difficult but fun content in game. If they did that, I wouldnt give a shit if they added stuff to the store

Just let it be earnable via gameplay

[uncut lintel]

the lunar year is what they should of done for the yearly china mounts

but nope

just like farm 500 tokens or something or a achievement idk

[subtle oar]

Yeah, those Lunar mounts every lunar new year should 100000% be for the Lunar Festival in-game, not on the store

[uncut lintel]

also make tcg come back to the game for nt 4000 dollars plz

[subtle oar]

I will never not be salty about that

[uncut lintel]

yea

i think if they made an event just for lunar year for a mount like different based on the year would be awesome but probably too much work for blizz

like the bunny one coming up, maybe like a hopping game or something IDK

@subtle oar WE SHOULD GET A PONY MOUNT WYH DONT WE HAVE A REAL UNICORN MOUNT YET, STRAIGHT HORN AND ALL RAINBOWS

must be too girly for blizz >: (

[subtle oar]

x3

That would be cool

[uncut lintel]

idk if u kno the game robot unicorn but i just imagine they add that in wow style alot

[subtle oar]

So long as its either not a store mount or also being earnable in game as well

[uncut lintel]

ik this is a long shot they wont add this shit but like, pride month or something, add rainbow robot unicorn or something, i dunno, maybe bro idk what goes with unicorns

[subtle oar]

Eh, thats far too on the nose and kinda, idk, feels icky to me as someone whos gay

[uncut lintel]

yeaaaa i just dont know what else other than a store mount

maybe engineering idk

[subtle oar]

xD

[uncut lintel]

ik pride month is just mainly used to not look bad anyway, but i just didnt have any other ideas, sorry

like from companies i mean

[subtle oar]

An event based around some completely deranged Gnome trying to make a Robot Unicorn army to take over Ironforge

Its so outlandish and stupid, its perfect

[uncut lintel]

ykno the uh goblin cinamatic with mischief, maybe something like that but with mount instead and its an ingame thing like wut u said with a gnome instead or wutever

robot unicorn army takeover is way too kiddish for blizz

[subtle oar]

Make it like the Rathalos trial from FFXIV. A repeatable piece of content where you earn a currency to buy one of the Rainbow Robot Unicorns

[uncut lintel]

blizzard: also makes it overpriced so u dont get it year one

im ruining this whole convo

but its funny

its just something blizzard would do

[subtle oar]

Sadly

[uncut lintel]

yea

its sad how i expect a twist for something stupid and gated everytime but its just like, bro, u did this to us so many times wut do u expect, i have no trust

DRAGONFLIGHT MUST BE BETTER, otherwise uhh yea game might die

looks like alot of ppl tho wanna play evoker atleast

[ember blaze]

evoker main checking in

[strange falcon]

When has that ever been the case 😂

[strange falcon]

Weird choice of person to simp to

[strange falcon]

You know what other game has a real unicorn mount, the joke is old so im not even gonna say it 😂

[strange falcon]

Them not having a tank spec will remain a severe crime like alliance getting diaper gnomes instead of snakes

[plain violet]

Foxy is nice.

[uncut lintel]

@strange falcon stop replying to old comments wtf is wrnog with u

[rain cave]

I mean, they're a caster what would their tank spec be

melee?

they don't want another melee

not at the moment

also it takes design time away from creating 2 compelling ranged dps/heal specs

to try fit in something polar opposite

[strange falcon]

We already have classes that use intellect and also have tank specs

And you can have a ranged tank spec, other games have done it,so if they really wanted to, they could make one.

Making a melee tank would be the easy way, as even their own lore supports this with black dragonflight being the major supporting flight for tanks

[strange falcon]

They already also said they're willing to add an extra spec to evokers("down the line") in interviews so this isnt a big issue

[rain cave]

ye

that's what I'm saying

they don't want to do it now

they want to create a solid core class

time is money friend

[strange falcon]

I think there may be a misunderstanding, they said they would like to add a new spec, but tank is unlikely(in their own words) so even after that, they'd prob get 2 ranged dps specs

[rain cave]

oh

thought he was referring to tank

but yeah I feel like they want to just make a caster

which is fine by me

we already have basically all the tanking fantasies and melee stuff covered

and a ranged tank would break the design of WoW

in a lot of ways

[strange falcon]

I think "golem" tank could still be a possible class fantasy,
Basically like warlocks doing voidwalker tanking, but as a whole spec, and you can "climb/merge" with the golem as your major cooldown

A "vampire" healer also is a class fantasy thay could work, using your own health and other players(and enemies) health instead of mana and distributing shields to offset the fact that you're draining hp(so they arent handicapped from mechanics)
Instead of mana bar you could have a blood resource that fills up and is used for bigger attacks/heals

[uncut lintel]

vampire dk healing spec

[rain cave]

vampire is kind of already covered by blood DK

same as necromancer

[rain cave]

and a pet tank class would break design

unless they revamped things hard

but even then that means timewalking would be hurt

since older dungeons aren't made with the new tank in mind

like I could see a totem tank (not necessarily shaman I just mean the playstyle) of having a "companion" piece with you, that you plonk down and use as a conduit for things

but that's not a pet

more akin to something like shen in LoL

[deep pawn]

I'm selfishly hoping they're saving earthwarder for shaman

[rain cave]

yes it makes the most sense there imo

since whilst earthwarder is originally a dragon title, we don't actually see black dragons using earth magic a lot lmao

considering they even considered a new spec at all is interesting

wonder if they're just adding evoker as the last base class they want to add

and they'll set up new specs as new fantasy expression

so instead of having just a new spec, and it having to be kind of baked in to the base class

they can go all out and design a completely new spec, and then add lore for that spec

[cunning fossil]

https://twitter.com/Xandebreaker/status/1520869813060456448?t=plKOCniV_OcSNCeS6djgCA&s=19

Chainbreaker (@Xandebreaker)

WoW stans are rearing their ugly fucking heads and opinions around again.

Twitter · May 1, 2022, 8:56 PM

[subtle oar]

?

[uncut lintel]

when is 9.2.5 coming out

like

in 2 months?

[harsh wedge]

No date but following what they said, could be in 4 months

As in, they said they wanted seasons to last 6-8 months

[uncut lintel]

WHAA

4 MONTHS

wait when did 9.2 release

[harsh wedge]

23 february

[uncut lintel]

FUCK

ok thaks

[cunning fossil]

Not about you trust me

[subtle oar]

I dont get it. It seems like a toxic FF Fanboy mad that WoW players are happy

[cunning fossil]

I think they're talking about the more toxic WoW Players

Especially the ones with opinions on "politics" entering the game.

[subtle oar]

Not really. Seems like they are attacking wow players in general

[cunning fossil]

I don't think so man. It's a specific subsection

[subtle oar]

Agree to disagree

[cosmic beacon]

I agree with this tweet, some people do be

[subtle oar]

Yikes

[ember blaze]

something tells me Baifeng feels personally attacked.

[uncut lintel]

MY MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALL THE GIRLS TO THE YARD

[glass flicker]

You a tauren?

[cunning fossil]

Lol

[plain violet]

Better that than icecream.

[rain cave]

happens a lot xddd

[sleek solar]

Was the Shadowlands storyline finished with 9.2?

[deep pawn]

Looks like it

[sleek solar]

Ah good

Thanks!

[glass flicker]

We are still getting a decent chunk in 9.2.5 though.

Even Calia says more than hello.

[ember blaze]

alliance undead coming

[sleek solar]

Wutttt xD

[ancient jasper]

Nah. Horde getting Lightforged Humans

[cosmic beacon]

lightforged nelfs or worgen plz

[harsh wedge]

Do we know about the shards of domination (sanctum of domination's borrowed power) in 9.2.5 ? At the moment they still work in the sanctum, will they be disabled completely ?

[ancient jasper]

I doubt it. Pretty sure Sanctum was designed around them at least partially

[rain cave]

lightforged vulpera

[strange falcon]

Lightforged void elves

[rain cave]

arator moment

[cunning fossil]

They're not co M ing back

[deep pawn]

I think they want to focus on tier rather than shards

[cunning fossil]

Yeah

[ember blaze]

how will that work though

are they adding in tier to the table

removing some gear? 🤔

[rain cave]

you can craft tier so I assume that's how it will work

[urban spire]

I think 9.2.5 will be kind of like an epilogue

which I think is a good thing

and it'll tie us back into Azeroth before leading to dragonflight

and really clean up that whole idea of a time skip

[cunning fossil]

that'll be nice

[glass flicker]

Boomer Anduin in rusty armor and rags.

I can see it.

I do wonder what happens with Shalamayne when Anduin makes it whole, tbh.

[cunning fossil]

Boomer Anduin blegh

[glass flicker]

I know Arthas' soul was forged into it, but you can't exactly shape metal back into a previous form.

[rose escarp]

or when he splits it? It was reforged, sure, but... it should still be able to be split, right? Hmm

[glass flicker]

It turned to normal again when Anduin split it.

But also when he made it whole. Despite the more spikey look Zovaal gave it.

One of my theories is that Anduin will chill with Uther in Bastion. And deal with the voidy bois there.

Maybe lean more into his discipline priest and shadow magic when he returns.

[rose escarp]

Him chilling with Uther would actually be quite neat, I'd say, considering that he was set up to become Arthas 2.0

[glass flicker]

And it'd give Uther something to do rather than sulking with the Wisdom doods.

[rain cave]

It's already been basically confirmed anduin is chilling in the mae with sylvanas

@glass flicker @rose escarp

Maw

Don't know if he's straight up helping or if he's there for therapy， for both of them

[glass flicker]

"Torghast could use some redecorating, if you're going to stay here until Danuser needs you again. This place is so drab"

And then Sylvanas adds posters of ponies.

[rain cave]

I feel that because of how time seems to work in the maw, he might just be much older when he comes out

[glass flicker]

Or, he might not?

[rain cave]

Even if it's only been a couple years

[glass flicker]

I'm almost certain he will have a beard though.

[rain cave]

There no razors in the maw

[glass flicker]

Give Anduin a beard! Even just an unkempt look.

He'd look so cool.

[rain cave]

We've already seen him with a beard

In the comic

[glass flicker]

That's Boomer Anduin. At like age 60.

[rain cave]

Yeah

But what if that's the maw time stuff

Comes out and he's much older

[glass flicker]

I see it. But I also don't.

I think time is static there.

So the concept of time is just in their minds.

"I've been here for years!"
"Not a second has passed."

Consider that Jaina said she has been tortured for months in Torghast. And that was like, a day of leveling for us.

How would she able to tell?

[rain cave]

I don't think they ever say specific times

[glass flicker]

Did she like, count minutes to fall asleep? Since she can't exactly count polymorphed sheep.

[rain cave]

They just say it feels like ages

[glass flicker]

It could just be adrenaline.

Time feels slower when you're in a rush of adrenaline.

[rain cave]

it's either they intentionally set up weird time flow with the maw or that they tried to but the story never developed so they scrapped it

because it's never been mentioned outside of the intro maw stuff

[strange falcon]

I think they scrapped the timeskip plot

[cunning fossil]

I don't it's possible to get therapy that way

And if Blizz thinks so that's pretty shit. ItXs the "off screen" solution again

[rain cave]

it's a more figurative meaning

and if anything I'd say confronting things head on would probably be better than actual therapy

since therapy is kind of a last resort thing

but that's neither here nor there, not in the scope of this convo

but anduin seems like the kind of guy who would go and talk / hang out with the person who's caused him great torment if he can see that they are also suffering

try and help them both get closure on the whole thing and repair

[sleek solar]

Thats why Anduin is a good person

Also the reason why I don't want him to step down as King

And leader of the alliance

[rain cave]

he could potentially do more good if he's not leading a faction tbf

from a half-meta PoV that is

if he's leader of the alliance he can only do so much good since everything he does is meant to be for the alliance

whereas if he's a free agent he can just go and be a bro to anyone without worry

e.g. if he's king and just goes and helps somebody for personal reasons he'd be hounded that he's not doing his job as king

[sleek solar]

True but what if the alliance goes to hell?

He wont be able to stop it

[rain cave]

points to future plotlines

exactly

[ancient jasper]

Think we might get another build tonight?

[sleek solar]

Blizzard would never do that tbh

[rain cave]

what have people in the alliance going a bit out of line?

they've already been doing it

[sleek solar]

B-b-but

Horde baddies!!!

[rain cave]

if anything they've gone out of the way to make the horde look more and more like good guys

since they've brought thrall back as a horde guy and he's basically a moral bastion at this point

and then separated sylvanas's actions as not horde aligned

saurfang being a bro too

Siege of stormwind could be a banger raid to end on if they really want to mimick MoP lmao

of the big bad ending up cycling around to a faction city raid

just twist it to be light themed or something instead of old god

have it so the only way in is deeprun tram, and we have a boss fight literally set on the tram

then going into the depths of stormwind keep that we haven't seen

[sleek solar]

True enough

[dense plover]

Unless we get another vendor build, no

There needs to be a build for them to put out

And we just got one

[deep pawn]

I'm hoping they get around to actually testing s4 content soon

you can do keys, but it's buggy

[dense plover]

Well

There’s a new vendor build

So maybe

[ionic terrace]

[deep pawn]

apparently Sylvanas animations, or was that last week

[languid yoke]

👀

[ivory meadow]

for 10.0? or 9.2.5? that'll be interesting if it's the former?

[cunning fossil]

Pretty sure he means 9.2.5

[uncut lintel]

why ppl keep thinking we are getting 10.0

[sleek solar]

Lol

Would be really quick

[ionic terrace]

PTR down

[dense plover]

10.0 wouldn’t be PTR

and it would be vendor 3

Also I would say 10.0

We have had 1 10.0 build on V3 and it was right after announcement. We probably will only see more once alpha goes into full swing

[ivory meadow]

ah, I see; thank you and others for the clarification!

[ionic terrace]

patch out

[deep pawn]

290mb or so

[upper pasture]

well, that's a boring color for a KSM. wasn't S1 and S2 almost identical?

[deep pawn]

it's blue

we have gray, green, red, and blue

[upper pasture]

looks pretty green to me

[deep pawn]

it's blue

could be worse, that gladiator mount

[upper pasture]

eh, idk why they didn't do a golden mount reskin

[deep pawn]

https://wow.zamimg.com/modelviewer/ptr/webthumbs/npc-row/109/97645.jpg

must be a small build

[opaque pewter]

I like that color actually

[deep pawn]

I do too

[rain cave]

too bad I hate the mount itself

I generally dislike tall narrow mounts

also PTSD from maw style

[ionic terrace]

https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1522016362436214786

Martin Benjamins (@Marlamin)

At least we got these cute little buildings, probably for the construction area in SW/Org.

Twitter · May 5, 2022, 12:52 AM

[glass flicker]

Judging by the roof colour, that's a Mage District, yeah, nevermind.

Proven.

[rain cave]

I'll be interested to see what happens when the rest of these kinds of assets get updated because they look so weirdly smooth

[glass flicker]

I honestly wish they'd update main faction cities again.

For example, look at Stromgarde.

It looks so much better than Stormwind.

[rain cave]

ik people are kind of sick of elves but

high res blood elf architecture would be nice too

9.2.5 has a new rendition of their classic music as well

my favourite style

[glass flicker]

They should just do more with Quel'Thalas in general.

[rain cave]

if I'm going to listen to WoW music I most of the time put on the belf music

such a great tune

[glass flicker]

Eh, I'd listen to Invincible more.

[rain cave]

I mean passively

like if I'm just playing/ working

ambient zone noise of belf starting zones is phenomenal

[glass flicker]

Invincible is the WoW theme for me. So good.

[rain cave]

with the cellos

invincible tugs the heartstrings yeah

that being said I adore the TBC sound design in general since it has a weird tininess to it

do you know what I mean?

[glass flicker]

It's really ambiental.

[rain cave]

like on belf / draenei voice lines, the music,

they have a certain ring to them

that no other xpac shares

[glass flicker]

Rather than the overpowering tunes in like Molten Core and even the login screen.

[rain cave]

this is more like the equipment they used to record I think

[glass flicker]

That also being said.

Favourite login screen theme?

[rain cave]

like their mics/ sound design team for TBC were just doing something different to every other xpac

[glass flicker]

Mine is WoD.

[rain cave]

WoD's is banger

another great zone music is Stormheim

when I was levelling in legion I turned that up all the way

[glass flicker]

I loved Stormheim. I wish the intro quests weren't so boring, though.

I'd do that zone all the time if Highmountain and Val'sharah weren't better.

[rain cave]

valsharah is also very fast going

you can speed through it so much

[glass flicker]

We also canonically rode on Moosefurion.

[rain cave]

canonically, one of the people who helped burn teldrassil rode moosefurion

xd

[glass flicker]

Indeed.

[rain cave]

angry malfurion was kinda scary actually

like in the darkshore stuff

that horde patrol PoV

[glass flicker]

Oh yeah.

[rain cave]

turning around and seeing your squadmate being dragged into the ground gagged by roots

to be buried alive

[glass flicker]

And he doesn't even look at the orc he did it to.

I was surprised to see bear Malfurion tbh.

I always pictured him to be a resto druid with balance offspec.

Also, those freakin' feathers on his arms are so cool.

Also why is that troll in the Mag'har heritage armour?

And also Malf chucks him like he's nothing.

With one hand too.

Everybody gangsta until the shadows start speaking Darnassian.

[deep pawn]

so it is stables

but what for...

a mini game?

[glass flicker]

New players, probably.

[deep pawn]

Our dragons?

[glass flicker]

So they don't have to go through so much trouble getting their mounts.

It's closer.

[deep pawn]

don't you just get it at Org or SW at 10

[glass flicker]

Yes. But you have to walk all the way to Old Town or up the elevator in Orgrimmar.

Even with the quest marker, it can be annoying.

[deep pawn]

I'd argue being close to the FP is a good thing

[glass flicker]

That's only in Orgrimmar though.

[deep pawn]

SW too

[glass flicker]

I guess Stormwind too, but how would new players know?

[deep pawn]

that's where the SW flight path is

[glass flicker]

They're sent to Old Town by the quest.

[deep pawn]

pretty sure the new player tour takes you there

[glass flicker]

Wait, no.

Horde players don't learn riding near the flightmaster either.

They go all the way to near Azshara.

Where the Rexxar fight is in the vision of N'zoth.

This is honestly an upgrade for newbies.

[deep pawn]

I admittedly haven't levelled a fresh character in forever, but Alliance is right next to the main flight path you used to use before chromie time

[glass flicker]

Not from the quest.

Do Exile's Reach and don't skip once you reach the city.

So yes, having the stables in a different location, closer to other general things, is much better than being near fuck-all nowhere.

[deep pawn]

I don't know, feels rather minor for creating brand new artwork

Especially when said players are immediately shunted off to Kul Tiras and Zandalar

[glass flicker]

Maybe it's just for convenience's sake. So these new players won't get lost.

Taken to the farthest part of town with no quest marker to get back.

[deep pawn]

a rather minor build for something that has been on the ptr without testing the major systems

[ancient jasper]

I feel like the past 2-3 builds have been tiny

[deep pawn]

I just want cross faction please.

[glass flicker]

I just want heritage armour for the rest of the races.

Belf and dark iron are getting treated with heritage weapons and a paladin set.

Despite already having heritage.

Oh, even a mount for dark iron.

Huh.

They get 2 because fuck the other races, I guess.

I don't care for the warfront sets. Draenei, humans, night elves, orcs, trolls and undead have nothing. Not even pandas.

[urban spire]

I think they should be doing a heritage set a patch at least

0.5 1.0s etc

[deep pawn]

Maybe in df

They said, and it feels like an excuse, that the quests wouldn't have fit shadowlands

[dense plover]

weapons and set they had already made

theyre just finally using them

new art vs new quest to use existing assets they made but didnt use

[deep pawn]

At least it's a quest reward. Nightborne weapons were slapped onto timewalking

[dense plover]

and if they already had story they wanted to tell with Belves and Dark Iron, then why not use it then?

[ancient jasper]

I feel like they could've worked off the whole Elune thing for Night Elves, but.. shrug

[deep pawn]

That could be in 9.2.5 as well, we don't have the full patch yet.

[glass flicker]

Hopefully the new Tear of Elune will have a purpose on Azeroth. With a quest line for night elves.

Humans? When Anduin returns, I guess.

Orcs? Maybe going with Thrall to Outland and reunite him with Aggra. And his grown up kids.

[dense plover]

i think orcs - you have to look at WC1

i think if its going to happen, its going to be in dragonflight with the caverns of time/bronze dragonflight

b/c the truly iconic orc armor is the WC1 Orcs vs Humans armor

this bad boy

because we already have the other armor set

its one of the orc sets from WoD

[glass flicker]

Or, maybe give us a Doomhammer-like armour.

Sort of what Thrall wore but updated.

And not it completely.

[dense plover]

idk - thats not really heritage armor

thats shaman armor if anything

WC1 is more representatitve of orcs than thrall is

thrall is literally an outlier

thats what makes him so significant

this is more orc heritage than thrall's armor

or this

i know its reforged

and it should be red not blue

but its closer than thralls stuff is to what it should be

[glass flicker]

Give orc pants. Pls.

[uncut vault]

its actually kinda worse for the current Exiles Reach experience, weirdly

the Orgrimmar one makes sense because it's right at the entrance to the city, but the Stormwind one is across the city from the new class trainer area

they'd have to move that again for it to work

which at that point begs the question, why not just upgrade the existing stables?

[glass flicker]

Good question.

[ember blaze]

they need to move chromie time somewhere closer to the middle of the city 🤔

[glass flicker]

Maybe.

[ember blaze]

having to walk there on your 60% mount across the entire city is awful

horde goes up one set of stairs

[glass flicker]

And that's why the main cities need redesigns.

They just slap new things whenever they need to rather than thinking ahead.

[strange falcon]

sounds like blizzard with class design revolving around borrowed power rather than a solid core

[ember blaze]

i dont see it happening unless a big part of an expac involves them 🤔

the least they could do is add flightpaths imo 😄

[glass flicker]

Well, let's sacrifice poor Ray D. Tear again.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

He was sacrificed in Shadowlands already, so we may need to wait a couple years.

[strange falcon]

talking of this, preach on allcraft mentioned that from what he knows from speaking with devs, one of the reason why they keep shoving housing under the rug, is because their editor cant drag and rotate items, they need to be in fixed positions, as its a retooled warcraft 3 editor
so they would need to rewrite the editor which is more work than anyones willing to do 😂

[glass flicker]

They don't need to do such a thing. Just give us a house and let us decorate around it with preset items.

Like statues in the garrison.

Because otherwise, I wager with you, that Stormwind RPers will only have a bed in their house.

Or a couple of them.

[strange falcon]

i have a feeling players wouldnt accept that, citing "wtf is this housing shit, i cant even place what i want"

etc

[glass flicker]

They want WoW to be SIMS?

[strange falcon]

who cares, housing is there for players to use them as they see fit

[strange falcon]

good housing system = sims apparently, okay

[glass flicker]

I'm just saying. Sims has the best house designing in any game. WoW needs to rework the editor entirely if they want to achieve only a slither of that.

But I think it'd help them in the long term.

They could make places be more dynamic.

[ember blaze]

does that limitation translate to other aspects of the game

cause idc if it takes them time and resources if it means other things can be improved

otherwise give me wow2

[glass flicker]

Consider what us going away in Dragonflight.

Borrowed power other than gear - gone
Mission tables - gone
420 systems that will eventually get replaced in the next patch - gone.

Even the balance team will have an easier time, only adjusting some talents here and there.

The UI and professions overhaul are awesome and they're honestly expansion features for me. So maybe have a little hope for a future patch of Dragonflight or the next expansion.

[strange falcon]

wildstar had the best housing system to date, but "that one weeb game" and "Skyrim but online" are pretty good in their own right.

as a matter of fact, the fact you can make theater plays in realtime shows how powerful housing can be

[glass flicker]

Fun.

[ember blaze]

There's this game that lets you place minigames or an area for pvp 🤔 Portals around your home and stuff. I wonder if something like that could make sense for wow

[strange falcon]

i dont think portals would be a good idea

[ember blaze]

@strange falconto travel within the home

and between your homes if you can own multiple

[strange falcon]

i dont think they'll have houses big enough that require portals o.o
and "between homes/to your home" can just use a special hearthstone

[glass flicker]

Or have your own instance in the main city.

Stormwind/Orgrimmar.

[deep pawn]

Raid vendors got updated

https://twitter.com/desmephisto/status/1522036333186748417?s=21&t=GJm8YF0ApfpAlJ5L5ZudIQ

DesMephisto 💙 (World of Warriors) (@DesMephisto)

You can buy weapons from these dudes?

Likes

110

Twitter · May 5, 2022, 2:11 AM

[glass flicker]

What?

[deep pawn]

There's where they put the strings about vendors disappearing after you spend a certain amount

There's some vendors in the vault area that had placeholder gear.

Looks like it'll be weapons and trinkets

[cunning fossil]

New PRR buuld? :0

[strange falcon]

i dont know of any "PRR buuld" sorry

[sleek solar]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-cat-funny-cat-mishi-cat-gato-gif-16268021

[deep pawn]

Ptr updates last night

No ptr notes, but key things appear to be new stables and the raid vendors

[cunning fossil]

Oooh now stables?

[deep pawn]

Yeah, no idea what they're for yet.

[cunning fossil]

Mount customization??

*kek

[cosmic beacon]

do we know what pvp sets will be for next season

like do we get old season elite gear?

giga huffing copium that we can get season 1 elite stuff

[strange falcon]

the mount is another recolor of the same mount, dont know if we have any hint what the pvp set is

[cosmic beacon]

ye seen the mount

[cunning fossil]

https://twitter.com/Wowhead/status/1522253165621485569?t=-phP8PBJE0ewOOrqxJmR7Q&s=19

Good shit tb

Wowhead💙 (@Wowhead)

Blizzard has released several blue posts clearing up some details on the profession revamp coming in Dragonflight.

#Warcraft #Dragonflight

https://t.co/BQIsUNrgDC

Twitter · May 5, 2022, 4:33 PM

Great response from them honestly. Of course, we have to see to believe but if they hold true to this stuff, this is a really positive path forwars

Also like

Recrafting can technically be reforging lite

Because you can change the optio AL reagents and IIRC some Optional reagents right now provide secondary stats

So basically, you need to pay some one some gold and they'll just recraft whatever you need into a higher Ilvl, changed secondaries/special effects.

Like yeah that's really really goos

TLDR Clickbait title: Reforging is BACK

[strange falcon]

as i said before with every single system they presented there's like 100pitfalls each,
if the gear takes way too much time to get (say 8 weeks) then it becomes kinda pointless to even craft it unless for alts,
if "you gotta grind azerite again to lvl your crafting quality" that can be bfa/legion farming all over again

etc etc

[cunning fossil]

to a semi limited degree

Except this system is gonna be baseline for the game.
And it's not gonna be grinding aErire

Dude did you at least read it before you commented?

You can criticize but at least come with facts

@subtle oar OH dude Reforging is Semi Back

[strange falcon]

they said that crafting quality will be from "activities"

i read it once, not 50times

[cunning fossil]

Activities such as PvP, M+, Raiding and World content yes

I mean what other activities do you think they're talking about?

[strange falcon]

depends on the amount of grinding required to get your quality up

how does it refute what i said

[cunning fossil]

Those activities are literally why you play the game

Like those activities ARW the game

And, at least from what I'm reading, you don't have to engage in every form of content in order for you to get the reagents you need

[cunning fossil]

Is it possible to speak a little about the anticipated “grindiness” of this?

Gladly.

I don’t want to go into a lot of detail on the planned system for Dragonflight yet, but the intent is that this is not generally grindy when aiming to earn gear appropriate to your activity.

[strange falcon]

"appropriate to your activity" being the caveat

[cunning fossil]

Well yeah how does that not make sense

You can't get Heroic level.loot when you only do Normal Raiding

[strange falcon]

^ if it takes 8 weeks to craft 1 piece of gear like in bfa with things like sanguicells or breath of bwomsamdi then it becomes mostly pointless

8 being an arbitrary number

[cunning fossil]

What if it only takes 2 or 3 weeks?

Necause professions are gonna be the pseudo bad luck protection for the expac it seems

Not the main source, Lest you want them to be

[strange falcon]

we dont know as we dont have it implemented yet,
like i said after the reveal, any and all discussion is pointless because we dont have anything to base it off of other than wishes and hopium

[cunning fossil]

You seem pretty sure in its failure though

Despite the fact that we can't evaluate it:/

Like dude can you not see that this is just a W for players and crafers?

Seriously

[strange falcon]

i'm not "sure in its failure" i'm highlighting possible pitfalls

[cunning fossil]

But that's all you do though

What do you think about the response at least?

[strange falcon]

i dont need to praise it, because that's all you guys do all the time,

[cunning fossil]

We literally don't but ok

I'm saying thus us good? Is that shilling now?

This is good for us*

[plain violet]

Wowhead is much more of a negative chamber than a praise one, Dafire, and you know it.

[strange falcon]

the discord isnt, the wowhead comments are more a salt mine than a negative chamber

[plain violet]

This discord is pretty negative.

[strange falcon]

i used to read the comments on every post because the salt was just overflowing

[cunning fossil]

Is constant salt not negative though :P

[strange falcon]

i'd argue the opposite

[plain violet]

I mean, we even intervened to tell people to calm down about calling the game trash for everything and saying that they should not play WoW..

Or to say "gosh can we just talk about a positive aspect of it?" (Not that it never happen, it does, but fairly rare)

Here WhereAmI? was pretty tame.

And I would agree that a salt mine is a negative chamber, as it amplify the feeling that all is bad/trash.

[cunning fossil]

I am personally not gonna let them off the hook, but I will admit where they have my attention

[strange falcon]

i should have mentioned i was specifically referring to this ptr-spoilers channel, as i have 95% of channels muted in the discord, i know #retail-wow gets quite toxic all of the time

[plain violet]

Retail WoW often have "this game have not [this] right now, so it is trash and I do not care for the others"

[haughty hound]

This Side Up - https://ptr.wowhead.com/achievement=10602/this-side-up - PTR 9.2.5

This Side Up

PTR 9.2.5

[cunning fossil]

Lol

[plain violet]

Or "funny meme wow bad"

Oh wow.

Sorry about that.

I think Kyle is often the most positive player on PTR channel.

[strange falcon]

i mean, they are funny tho, most of the time

[cunning fossil]

Don't worry Kyle. Not a slight at tou

You*

[deep pawn]

Oh I'm hardly positive. I have some cautious optimism.

[cunning fossil]

I was gonna say that yeah. He's not a total shill and such

[plain violet]

Where I draw the line on the funny memes is where the memes lie to make their point.

[deep pawn]

I've spent the last 3 months saying creation catalyst needed to be open earlier

[plain violet]

Oh sure, but it's one of the name I remind when thinking of positivity. Not saying it's a blind one, it's even quite reasonable.

[cunning fossil]

Oh BTW Kyle did you hear?

[plain violet]

But I cannot remind myself of well... people on this channel who only think "good" of WoW.

[cunning fossil]

Reforging is back (in a limited manner but still)

[subtle oar]

Whaaaaaaat

[cunning fossil]

Let me get their words I will be right back

I don-= wanna spread mis info

[deep pawn]

You'll be able to craft raid quality gear with soulbind materials that drop

[cunning fossil]

One thing I want to talk about that we haven’t mentioned yet is the concept of recrafting. It’s still in the works so is likely to change some, but the basic idea is as follows:

Recrafting will allow you to take any piece of Dragonflight crafted gear and bring it back into the crafting screen as a crafter. You can then spend a special reagent, plus a small subset of the original reagents from the recipe to “recraft the item”.

During this process, you can completely change out optional reagents if you want. The new quality of the item will be determined based on the new setup of reagents, plus your current skill. This means you can have an item crafted at a low quality, then later recraft it when you are higher skill to a higher quality.

For non-crafters, we are planning to support recrafting orders as well. In this case, you can send you item to get recrafted to have its optional reagents changed out, or to potentially have its quality increased.

All of this should help players feel comfortable having a high end item crafted early, when it might not be at max quality, secure in the knowledge that they can always have it recrafted to be better later.

Here

This is basically saying Reforging is back for items made from professions

[subtle oar]

Sadge

:(

[cunning fossil]

It may not be EVERY piece of gear but still.

It's a win though Bai!

Like you may have a lot of your gear be from professions.

And it could mean that reforging is back in the future (a stretch but this is decently similar)

[deep pawn]

Knowing it can be recrafted lowers some anxiety about trolls purposefully ruining crafts.

[cunning fossil]

Lol yeah

You can make a low.level item, them later on have someone recruit it at a higher level with better secondaries

All the way up to potentially BiS

[deep pawn]

My initial reading was each level takes more reagents and reagents drop proportionally faster by difficulty

[cunning fossil]

I was thinking there would be a varying quality of reagents rather than more quantity

So that amplifies the "if you want Heroic gear, do some Heroic level content" idea they seem to be pushing

[strange falcon]

you're gonna be disappointed if you keep overhyping things in your head without any basis yet in the game, just saying
given blizzard's track record, you should keep your expectations so low they are below the ground so you dont get disappointed even if they fuck up

[deep pawn]

They also said a normal raider could supplement their mats from m+ and even world content which makes me think it's a quantity thing

[rain cave]

Crafted items are already potential bis

[deep pawn]

To make heroic gear.

[cunning fossil]

Ahhh that's fair

[cunning fossil]

K dude. I said it's a stretch. I don't even know the joys of reforging anyways

Also nah I want to hold them up to a standard

I can't expect anything more than fhe bare minimum if that's all I account them to

[subtle oar]

I hope so

[cunning fossil]

Yeesh can't be positive about the game before getting put down like a dying dog

[subtle oar]

Oof

[cunning fossil]

I get that hating wow is like popular and responding with "LOL WoW still sucks" is funny at times but samn man. You can not give then vredit where it is due without being told you're dick riding Bobby

||https://youtu.be/frAc4Lhzlx4||
Literally this

[dense plover]

Recrafting is good

Like - inherently

Because it removes FOMO

One of the big problems with legendary base items was that the early tiers were sort of useless since there were a ton on the market and you wanted to replace it ASAP

This is essentially allowing you to make or order a mediocre version of your BiS and then once you’ve progressed a bit or earned the resources or money, go back to the item and improve it or restat it if you need to

It’s an improvement of the legendary system in Shadowlands because it’s for regular items, doesn’t require a new base item, and takes fewer resources than crafting a new one from scratch

It’s just baseline a good thing

[cunning fossil]

Agreed

[deep pawn]

I'm not sure resources are the initial barrier. Seems like skilling up might be time based since it's not grindy.

Weekly quests and events maybe

[nocturne totem]

In the age of simulations, recrafting sounds like a nightmare. Stat weights are a thing if the past.

Oops

Read that as reforging

😂

[subtle oar]

Stat weights definitely are not

[cunning fossil]

It is essentially the same

[dense plover]

Except you have control over the stats

Which means it’s not RNG

[ember blaze]

im excited over upcoming crafting

normally i just have herb/mining or enchanting for m+ gear and it doesnt extend further than that

though I wonder how inscription will work 🤔

aside from glyphs and contracts, what would be the thing youd work towards or specialize in? 🤔

[deep pawn]

Trinkets

[deep pawn]

survey about pricing, why ask, wouldn't most people just say whatever's cheapest?

https://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2022/may/survey.png

[dense plover]

It’s about determining price break points

And in all likelihood, they sent out various versions of these pricing models

Where the features for each price point are moved around

They want to figure out what the average person values the additional content at

[deep pawn]

well they're changing the ksm mount, I want both honestly

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/l7/L7XB0GX95BPW1651792634032.png

[ember blaze]

having it look near identical to s2 was just dumb

Like, what even?

As if they only had 2 colors to pick from

[rain cave]

that's cool

looks like a void walker

[deep pawn]

Maybe I'm strange but blue and green were drastically different

That or a lot more players are somewhat colorblind and didn't know it. 😄

[opaque pewter]

Yeah they gave a different feel

[cunning fossil]

Now that is sweet

Look at them changing shit and reacting to player feed back

[deep pawn]

I'm gonna miss the blue

[nocturne totem]

What if it was a different mount all together though?

🧠

[deep pawn]

they don't do that for gladiators

[nocturne totem]

What if glad mounts were different each season too?

[deep pawn]

I don't mind recolors cause I like certain colors more than others

[dense plover]

Probably the colorblind thing tbh. A lot of people have minor colorblindness and are unaware

[opaque pewter]

Maybe we should cry more D:<

This particular one is not hand-painted texture, so it would have been a good candidate for a color slider

[ember blaze]

@dense plover

[deep pawn]

Everything but the second from the right are purple in my eyes

[ember blaze]

@deep pawnwhich one do you mean

theyre all purple except the last one on the right 🤔

which looks black. A bit darker than discord background

[deep pawn]

The one to the left of that looks a bit more blue than. Purple to me, but that might only be in contrast to the richer purples

💜

Eww, discord changed that a ton from the emoji

[ember blaze]

it's a very vibrant purple

[rain cave]

it's a blue purple

like a violet but a tad bluer

[opaque pewter]

That person either cannot see the difference at this level, or puts blue in a big range

Kinda like people not discerning magenta from red or pink

Also, screen color range can affect what they see I suppose lol

[rain cave]

I will say that now that I see it without my night light mode on it does look more blue

but it's still on the border

but ofc colours are all about context

we know it's voidy, so even if she has areas that are more blue than purple

it still reads as purple

velf mount is a good example

there's literally purple parts to the armour, that emphasize how blue the other void area is

but it's still purpleish, the blue parts

it's an interesting area of the colour wheel that's for sure

[deep pawn]

Yeah, put a light purple that's almost blue next to royal purple, it's gonna look super blue.

[ancient jasper]

The one on the far right is closer to a dark gray for me than anything else.

[strange falcon]

it is dark gray

[calm holly]

Will there be new PVP sets or just the ones we have now?

[cosmic beacon]

ye i was wondering that but from the looks of it we dont know yet

copium that we can get s1 elite sets again

or atleast recolours

[calm holly]

I would love another chance at season 2 plate only got 1650 last time :<

so only got half a set

[opaque pewter]

Colour interpretation may be contextual, but colour classification is pretty much static now

[deep pawn]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-explains-current-plans-for-loot-in-shadowlands-season-4-raids-3-326987

First time they've used the words "shorter run time" to describe s4

[strange falcon]

Given the other seasons lasted 8 months,
If this season 4 comes in june(i have no idea about timings)
Season ending in december(6 months) and expac in 2023 is all within expected ranges still
If it was 4 months(half) they'd have used "much shorter"

[cunning fossil]

I think it'll be 6 months yeah

And January will be pretty patch

AKA

TWINK DRAGON PARTY

[dense plover]

I think they might drop prepatch before Christmas break

And then event will happen shortly before expac launch in February

Providing time to fix bugs or any lingering issues for the first 5-6 weeks of 2023

And providing time for people to attempt old content and find any nasty exploits that weren’t found during alpha or beta

[deep pawn]

I have to say the current plans they have are still way to damn grindy.

[ember blaze]

My phone and pc see vastly different colors lol

[deep pawn]

I'm sorry, 60 boss kills over 6 weeks for 3 normal items that you can upgrade if you've full cleared heroic and mythic each weak during that time frame

[strange falcon]

"Full clearing a raid twice to upgrade just one item" sounds riveting /s

Also why only 3 tokens for the whole entire season(???)

[deep pawn]

last I saw too the upgrade items only worked one step, you had to have a heroic item to upgrade to mythic

[opaque pewter]

It's meant more as a specific drop protection/guarantee than a gearing path. I'm okay with that

[deep pawn]

If you're capable of clearing that many bosses, this system feels largely superfluous

it also locks out pvp'ers and m+ folk

Maybe cut all the numbers in half and I'd be a bit more okay with it, but as it stands it doesn't make me want to raid

[opaque pewter]

I don't think raid items need to be special in acquisition. You raid to get stuff that drops in raid similar to M+ to get dungeon loot anf PvP to get PvP loot

[subtle oar]

Well, no. M+ you can spam to gear up, same with pvp. Pvp has a gear vendor. M+ should have a Valor gear vendor

Raids, should have a gear vendor too, where even if you don't get loot from a boss, you can bank up badges to buy the items you want.

[opaque pewter]

I'm not sure how it changes my statement.

[deep pawn]

Like the idea behind this is cool, but I'd take less rng loot to make this type of deterministic loot faster. What would be wrong with knowing you could get 1 BiS item a week. Is 16 bloody weeks on one character not enough time investment?

[subtle oar]

Because your statement was wrong

[opaque pewter]

Very well.

[strange falcon]

You need to play the full 6months of the patch to appease the engagement metrics, everyone knows that 😂

[opaque pewter]

Currently, By the 4th week of farming, we pretty much have exhausted the difficulty with the current loot drops. This assumes, of course that you play with the same people every week so loot gets traded a lot. For that couple of raiders still chasing that last piece, this system is quite the fix, which is why I'm seeing this favourably

[deep pawn]

Scariizard confirms the 30/20/10 quest can be done in LFR

Also that items can upgrade from normal to mythic

[cosmic beacon]

30 20 10?

[deep pawn]

the puzzling dinars

that let you buy 3 normal raid weapons/trinkets of your choosing

first one requires killing 30 fated bosses, then 20, last is 10

[ionic terrace]

In other news

https://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=65655/eyes-of-the-wolf

No idea where this came from

[deep pawn]

was added last build

probably let's Alliance just watch whatever lore moment cutscene is coming

a la spying on Baine's arrest

[ember blaze]

can that lfr item be upgraded to mythic through lfr

[deep pawn]

hmmm, I dunno

"Additionally, the World Boss related to whichever raid is currently Fated will also be scaled up - more difficult, and dropping ilvl 285 Fated gear."

[uncut lintel]

lets go dragonflight lets go

SHAKE DAT DRAGON

[cunning fossil]

lmao

[dense plover]

They can always add more Dinars

They’re starting small to play it safe

This is a huge thing they are doing to test stuff

Hypothetically, if this is successful, we could see raids from the previous patch scaled up to match the current one in the 10.X.5 patches

And since this isn’t a world first race they can actively adjust gear - when you get it, it’s stats and how much you get

If players aren’t having fun they can fix it pretty quickly

This has potential to be very very fun

Assuming they support it for the probably 6 months it’s going to be active

Imagine if after 2 months they switch the fated affixes or switch the trash out for other trash or change mechanics around

They could pull a season of mastery and introduce cut boss mechanics back

Etc

With players all powered up, there is a TON of potential

[deep pawn]

@uncut lintel with the dinar quest working in lfr, odds are good the slime cat will work there too

[uncut lintel]

YAAAY

[subtle oar]

No. You have to do Mythic to get the Mythic upgrade

[deep pawn]

That said lfr items can be upgraded with the mythic token

I guess that's one way to make them not hate splits.

[strange falcon]

Or just bring masterloot back, its literally that simple

[cunning fossil]

Apparently it is not

As they say that bringing masterlooter back is a long term goal of theirs

And they say it will take some time to get it to a state they enjoy

[ember blaze]

doesnt masterloot allow them to funnel unlimited gear

[strange falcon]

What inane restrictions do they have to put on it ffs, just make it guild only and call it a day, its not rocket science

[cunning fossil]

shrug at least they have plans

Also we all know WoW has spaghetti code

Who knows what was done to remove masterloot in the game

[strange falcon]

Since both personal loot and masterloot were available at the same time in legion i think, they most likely just commented/deactivated the masterloot code

I really doubt they did some weird shit to remove it, when just commenting/deactivating the code is super fast

[ember blaze]

@strange falconjust watch ion's response on why it isnt as simple as just putting it back

[deep pawn]

With personal loot they designed the loot different

[ember blaze]

I like getting loot

[uncut lintel]

why would master looter be needed nowadays tho

[ember blaze]

@uncut lintel theres the argument that if you get a drop that's garbage, you can't trade it

though from what i understand, it's just a feature for top guilds

[uncut lintel]

o

[ember blaze]

imo, loot should just never be trash 🙂

and nerfing something like secondaries helped

[deep pawn]

so something going on in Elywnn with Ardenweald stuff, at least I've heard people taking a couple times now.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385996433003642880/972540153723764766/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385996433003642880/972541997342670888/unknown.png

If was just soul shapes I'd think players maybe, but that's fae

this time someone took pictures

[ember blaze]

@deep pawnsome were saying it was just toy interactions and theyve seen it done elsewhere

[deep pawn]

hmmm

definitely not Choofa's Call

I don't see a shadowland's toy it'd be.

[cunning fossil]

Ugmmm hmmm

That's interesting

[deep pawn]

it also really seems to favor 9.2 spirit shapes

[uncut lintel]

@deep pawn speaking of soulshapes tho it would be cool if they put npcs like them in major cities just for fun or atleast let us keep the spell for fun in uhh inns or wutever

i wanna run around in soulshape

[ember blaze]

would that make sense though

when theyre dead people from the shadowlands 🤔

[uncut lintel]

FUCK SENSE

I EARNED THOSE SOULSHAPES

I WANNA USE, THOSE, SOHULSHAPES

[deep pawn]

Blizzard has already said they want to find a way for us to keep them

[uncut lintel]

[wet lark]

For guilds that have a unique looting system that rewards gear based on showing up to raids or not. Point system

[uncut lintel]

yea for guilds i guess it makes sense but i thought they wanted it out of that like in pugs like no thanks i want atleast some loot

[wet lark]

Bonus rolls and weekly cache to the rescue :)

[dense plover]

but loot is already rewarded to people who show up

you get loot from the bosses

if you dont show up, you cant get loot because you arent there

[deep pawn]

No no, someone the guild deems less deserving might get something

[ember blaze]

So the healers

[deep pawn]

"well we killed the boss, so clearly they don't need more gear, let's give it to the DPS so we can kill faster next week"

[nocturne totem]

Personal loot sucks for the obvious reason of something being an ilvl upgrade, it being not an actual upgrade for your character, and you can't trade it.

[deep pawn]

It does, but I also get the viewpoint of not wanting players to feel compelled to give up minor upgrades

I don't know how to balance those two things

Blizzard so far appears to prefer the blame goes to the system rather than letting players feel selfish

[nocturne totem]

Yeah some safeguard

First solution is not to run in groups that would make you give up your loot if you wanted it

[deep pawn]

That just doesn't work with pugs and even many guilds.

I personally come on the side of it's just healthier for average players long term for master loot to stay dead.

Let it only come back if you give up a piece of loot per boss and risk getting something no one can use.

[nocturne totem]

That is how it worked in Legion if you turned it on right?

But yeah pugs is where you would need some sort of safeguard

[deep pawn]

You had to be a guild group, I'd extend it to 100% guild rather than 80%

[nocturne totem]

For guild that is what I mean when I say don't play with that group if they treat loot like that

If their rule doesn't align with you then that group probably isnt right for you

[deep pawn]

That's how it was before and it just cause so may issues Blizzard felt it wasn't worth it

That and a minority of guilds turned it on.

[wet lark]

A little different. Guild raid leaders would prefer that specific tier pieces are going to people that need the gear in their own guild and not some random pug with mythic gear just to disenchant the piece and leave.

[dense plover]

but the person pugging deserves something

[ember blaze]

who is this even an issue for

[dense plover]

they should be punished for leaving

but like - they still deserve a reward for participating and contributing

[ember blaze]

yeah

[dense plover]

should you get nothing for joining a PUG?

why would you join then?

[ember blaze]

back in my alliance days, pugging was common cause recruitment sucked for anything remotely competitive.

I even joined guilds progging a fight ive already killed

[dense plover]

maybe you could combo it - like if your group is 60%+ Guildmates, only the PUG people get personal loot? idk

but PUG people shouldnt be punished

[ember blaze]

if we killed the boss, i should still get loot

[dense plover]

and master loot actively punishes them

[ember blaze]

as a healer, id hate to be lower on the priority for any gear

[nocturne totem]

You're assuming a lot. If our guild PUGs anyone they get gear equally as anyone else.

They were there for the kill

[deep pawn]

Your guild is a minority in that regard then.

[nocturne totem]

You're just assuming things

[deep pawn]

Only stat we have from Blizzard is that a minority of groups in legion bothered turning master loot back on when they removed it in BFA.

[wet lark]

If it's a guild run why shouldn't the guild get priority especially in terms of selling gear to pugs.

If the pug is willing to pay to win and get carried the guild should be able to monetize and exchange their service for game time with wow tokens

Turning gear drops into gold and swapping that into a month of game time

Paying to get carried for a run is one thing but it's going to cost extra now for gear.

[deep pawn]

Don't need master loot for that. Guilds already sell all loot runs for gold.

[wet lark]

Sure you do to ensure they don't get loot otherwise

It's not a charity.

Minimum skill gets minimum rewards. I'd rather the enchanting materials for disenchanting go to the guild too.

Pay for gear or don't complain about not getting gear simple

[deep pawn]

I'd rather all carry runs be made against ToS.

Maybe mat costs would drop if guilds couldn't make millions a tier

[wet lark]

Or get good

[deep pawn]

I get 278 gear from m+. Raids could stop being developed and they switch to 3 dungeons a tier and my game experience would probably improve.

[wet lark]

Lol 5 man dungeons

[deep pawn]

More fun to me than dealing with 19 people angry and loud on discord any day.

Keys I do my crap for 30 minutes and I can move on for the day or even the week.

[wet lark]

Or just do one high key a week to get your cache reward for next week and still raid

[deep pawn]

Raiding has never felt more than a long chore to be done. I just think it's the worst experience in an MMO. I've tried. You just stop when you never have fun.

[wet lark]

Daily quests that time gate content is a chore

Raiding and rbgs are where the action is at

[deep pawn]

Amazing that people can like different content. For me the length of raids and other people just kill it for me.

[wet lark]

Yeah I mean some people like doing only pet battles and have all the achievements in that. But they are wrong

[deep pawn]

You don't get to decide how anyone plays is wrong unless they're exploiting others or the game itself

[wet lark]

Or I mean look at the people that keep an active sub just to stand around goldshire inn on moon guard

[nocturne totem]

Who is even talking about carries?

[deep pawn]

Asmodeus wants master loot so his guild can sell gear to carries without any chance of them getting a freebie

[wet lark]

Absolutely. And it's coming back going to happen

[nocturne totem]

If true master loot was an option again and your buyer agreed to it who cares? They agreed to it.

[wet lark]

Exactly you don't get gear if you pay to get carried. People that play the game get gear.

[deep pawn]

I'm still of the opinion that if master loot comes back it must be limited to 100% guild runs. A single carry, back to personal.

Rather a single pug

[nocturne totem]

I'm just confused where this came from

[wet lark]

Or just be aware of the symbol that says master loot

If you join a group they have master loot and the owner takes the loot. That's just the way it goes.

[nocturne totem]

Not really

The group agrees to the rules

[wet lark]

You need to be aware of your surroundings

Be a little observant

[deep pawn]

Or Blizzard just keeps the potential of abuse away from players who will do it.

[wet lark]

Why should they protect leeches

[nocturne totem]

Hmm, why I'd they kept personal loot only but removed ilvl restrictions

[nocturne totem]

Why are you calling all pugs leeches or lazy?

[deep pawn]

Why should they protect people who want to benefit from pugging 4 people and never give them loot

[wet lark]

Majority are paying for a run and aren't geared enough to be there

[nocturne totem]

You're being weird

Or just have a very narrow experience

[wet lark]

Give gear to me because I worked hard and joined a group where I didn't notice it was a guild run. But I must furiously type of forums about it and open a support ticket crying that my super special item was taken

Give me a break dude. People like that it's their own fault

They killed a boss and didn't see it was in master loot. It's happened to me plenty of times but that's just how the game goes

[nocturne totem]

Who even brought up people ninjaing loot or buyers and sellers in the first place?

[nocturne totem]

That's the thing, it doesn't have to be that way

[nocturne totem]

A pug has every right to gear if they were there for the kill

Now if it was a buyer run and they set explicitly that the buyer does not get loot sure they don't get loot

If it is just a pug that you got into the group because you needed more people/different roles to do the encounter, why shouldn't they get equal parts of the loot?

[wet lark]

A random geared player that signed up to run the raid is different from the pay to win real world trading with extra steps involved

[nocturne totem]

Yeah that is what we were talking about to begin with.

[wet lark]

No we weren't lol

[nocturne totem]

You just started talking about buying runs and leeching people for no rreason

[nocturne totem]

This started it

[wet lark]

We were talking about how a guild reserves the right to distribute loot as they wish

[nocturne totem]

Okay, they can set the rules. Also players can choose not to play with them.

[wet lark]

Exactly

That is my point

[nocturne totem]

It is kind of shit not to tell pugs what the loot rules are though when inviting them.

[wet lark]

If you see it is on master loot you reserve the right to leave group and choose not to play with them

If you do the fight you lock yourself for the week

[deep pawn]

I still say master loot should be 100% guild only. Let that be a guild mechanic only. If a guild can't field 20 people, play with personal

[nocturne totem]

Master loot doesn't need to be abosultely like it was in the old days.

It can be a be built with safeguards this time around

[wet lark]

Yes it does otherwise it isn't master loot

[ember blaze]

and you switched over to people buying carries

[wet lark]

It would be more like apprentice loot

[nocturne totem]

Apprentice Loot sounds fun 👀

All I want is to be able to trade away gear I otherwise won't use without ilvl restricting me

That is the only problem I personally have with Personal Loot

[ember blaze]

So basically almost no one used master loot? 🤔

or did i misread that

[deep pawn]

They didn't tell us numbers, just that a minority of guilds turned it on

It was theorized that most didn't want to deal with the loot drama

[ember blaze]

so we're wasting resources so that the 3 world first guilds get to do their thing 🤔

[nocturne totem]

Didn't you get an extra piece of loot for doing Personal Loot instead of Master on Legion?

[deep pawn]

You did get more

[wet lark]

You had to use a bonus roll

[nocturne totem]

No just raw drop from boss more loot

[wet lark]

But on average loot was dropped about the same in a 25m group 5-6 pieces

[ember blaze]

yeah, every gear locked should be an upgrade

[wet lark]

Hell at that point just remove soul bound items and let us sell rare mounts

[deep pawn]

Blizzard has tried to make ilvl an automatic upgrade and in most cases it is.

[ember blaze]

the secondary nerfs helped

[wet lark]

Let me list up my extra invincibles and life-bindera on the AH

[ember blaze]

compared to like BFA where secondaries were way ahead of mainstat

[nocturne totem]

The problem is Blizz can't calculate for certain if you actually want a drop and it is a true upgrade

[wet lark]

BFA sucked. Corruption was a joke

[ember blaze]

can they not make mainstat always be an upgrade

[deep pawn]

One idea I have is if you trade an ilvl upgrade you'd receive some of the soulbind trading mats, but that would just encourage trading to gear faster.

[ember blaze]

and I personally dont think trinkets should be as crazy as they are now

[wet lark]

They need to be crazier I agree

[nocturne totem]

Trinkets are tricky because it is all about the extra effects

If they just make a bad effect it is dead on arrival

[ember blaze]

i think they should just be there for stats 🤷‍♂️

[wet lark]

Most of those stat stick trinkets are dead on arrival

[deep pawn]

As a tank, I'd be down with trinkets being removed.

[ember blaze]

focus on making tiers/legendaries or whatever have interestic stuff to it

[nocturne totem]

I'd be fine with them making loot rules still personal but let you trade whatever you want.

[ember blaze]

ill take trinkets that give me shields for tanking 🤔

[nocturne totem]

World First whatever can trade around all they want and who cares what they do.

Other players still get their loot drop and they aren't forced to trade because they have the drop

[deep pawn]

There's an easy solution to that. If you trade an ilvl upgrade you get say 20% of the mats needed to make an item. So you have to consider whether keeping a large upgrade or trade a small one to make a big one later.

The top guilds would probably spreadsheet the hell out of it to maximize upgrade potentials

[nocturne totem]

Are you talking if you could craft raid an dungeon drops with some sort of currency?

[deep pawn]

You will be in 10.0

That's already confirmed.

[nocturne totem]

I must have missed that interview or whatever it was said in

[deep pawn]

It's in the profession update forum post

[nocturne totem]

I hate that all this info is strewn about so many different channels 😅

[deep pawn]

Raids will drop soulbound mats that you can use to place work orders for raid quality gear.

It's the bad luck protection mechanic for df

[nocturne totem]

Oh so not the actual raid items but the crafted pieces that will be raid ilvl

So you can't like craft the raid trinket or whatever

[deep pawn]

They said some could be bis even

[dense plover]

^ theyll be new gear in addition to raid stuff

which means you can have fun trinkets

and other stuff

since the gear can still be locked behind doing the content via crafting resource

[deep pawn]

I mean I'd be totally down for inscription to have a super OP crafted trinket

[ember blaze]

just let inscription give enchants for leech, speed, avoidance 😑

[dense plover]

those would be required tho

[ember blaze]

what's the problem

like you already have +30 on your chest

[deep pawn]

scribes need a little bit of love

the darkmoon trinkets weren't even that good this expansion

[wet lark]

Or give enchanters the enchants

[nocturne totem]

I'm hoping all professions get more useful stuff and fun stuff

[deep pawn]

they should

BS, Tailoring, and Leatherworking will all have armors

Maybe weapons too