basically always has been
#beta-ptr-spoilers
rain cave
harsh wedge
Even if you let people swap freely it does not mean anything
rain cave
I think the grind squad mindset is harmful
harsh wedge
Nothing stops me from playing, say, necrolord hunter
rain cave
people want choice
harsh wedge
Except that I will underperform compared to if I had another covenant
rain cave
heard somebody mention adding a new 4th option to the talent rows instead of adding another vertically
which i liked the sound of
harsh wedge
Won’t change anything
rain cave
so what will
harsh wedge
You’ll still go for the best out of 4
rain cave
adding a flat 10% dmg buff you can't choose and just get
is that what you prefer
lvl 15 no talents just a dmg buff
harsh wedge
That is what most talents are doing to be honest
Hiding behind fluff but still what the talent does
(For damage talent of course)
rain cave
expand the sandbox and multiple builds will come to exist
the issue rn is that the choice environment means that there's only like
a few variations you can have
if every spec can have several ways of being played instead of just a couple
the builds will show up
as long as balancing is in somewhat of a ballpark
and even then they can easily adjust that
harsh wedge
And you’ll always have one better than the others
rain cave
ideally no
harsh wedge
Even if it is a slight 0.1% the majority will take it
harsh wedge
Ideally is not possible
harsh wedge
Buffs will be calculated through damage done apportée by the buff etc
ancient jasper
pokes PTR with a stick
rain cave
something like "your anti magic zone buffs allies damage depending on how much damage it has absorbed"
harsh wedge
And will still be considered if it does more damage than other builds
rain cave
"purging a buff from an enemy gives a shield to you and the closest 3 allies"
harsh wedge
If it does, well no point taking the other builds
cunning fossil
Nothing stops me from playing, say, necrolord hunter
Necrolord hunter is fucking awesome don't alander
harsh wedge
Utility is not really considered in the build tho
It is, but it is trolling to take it
cunning fossil
You’ll still go for the best out of 4
Not everyone does this though
deep pawn
Less than 10% go for the "meme" picks
cunning fossil
Lol sure
harsh wedge
Yes sure
cunning fossil
Not even picking meme as long as you can play well
rain cave
"hitting the enemy in the back ignores % more resistances, and has a chance to allow all damage dealt to act as if it is from the back"
add really unique effects
cunning fossil
We're not fucking World Firsters
harsh wedge
Even if you are not a world firster
rain cave
they should make items that will end up being nichely useful for like
cunning fossil
If everyone just remembered that simple fact, maybe the game could actually be fucking fun
harsh wedge
Just watch and you’ll see the majority going for what the world firster take
rain cave
they should get experimental imo
niche effects are satisfying to me
and would open up more builds
cunning fossil
Just watch and you’ll see the majority going for what the world firster take
Unfortunately that is the truth.
But it doesn't mean that we should get rid of "fake" choices.
Not everyone wants to do math to play woe
Let those guys do that
I wanna play Necrolord hunter Bomb buikd
And do big dam
deep pawn
10% of MM hunters are Necro and 8% are Venthyr, I'm assuming the Venthyr are largely BM hunters who logged off the wrong spec.
rain cave
even things like "you deal more frost damage to enemies facing you, you deal more fire damage to enemies facing away from you"
rain cave
it's really not
harsh wedge
For whatever content you do, you have the false choice there
rain cave
because sure there will be an all purpose build
cunning fossil
How dare people pick things because they might be fun, rather than being a .001% dps increase
rain cave
that is "good" at everything
but if you add more choice, and make those choices more niche
then your all purpose build will lose when it comes to the niches the others shine in
harsh wedge
But it is already the case tho bigsaint
rain cave
not really
rain cave
because there aren't many 'build' options anyways
harsh wedge
Covenant changes depending on content
harsh wedge
Legendaries change too
rain cave
and it's all dictated through basic, large stroke choices
harsh wedge
Soulbind do
deep pawn
You can play suboptimal, but you will be laughed out of even "semi-serious" content unless you fight every step of the way to get to the right gear or rating
harsh wedge
I mean I don’t know what you want more than people changing build depending on the content they are doing
That is literally what you are asking tbh
cunning fossil
You can play suboptimal, but you will be laughed out of even "semi-serious" cont...
Is that not a community issue?
cunning fossil
Because no matter what devs do, players will still do that toxic shit
rain cave
instead of just being a frost DK that either breathes a lot or smacks a lot
you can have many more flavours
deep pawn
That is why all these false choices are ultimately pointless. The only people who pick "wrong" are those who don't care or aren't doing anything that seriously
rain cave
that are better for certain circumstances
and the choice does matter
say you're going into a dungeon or boss where different builds are better on certain phases
cunning fossil
That is why all these false choices are ultimately pointless. The only people wh...
Then why don't we just have one class for each role and call it a day then?
rain cave
you don't want to pile all your effectiveness into one phase
so you actually have to coordinate builds
deep pawn
the only class that had any "real" choice was rogue and their covenant abilities were less than 5% of their kit for the first 2 patches
harsh wedge
But how much build is enough for you then ? If I’m counting soulbind, covenant and legendaries differently, I’d be easily at 10 different builds on my hunter
cunning fossil
At the end of the day, each class and spec may be pointless oneday unless they're at the top of the chart
rain cave
and pick accorindgly
rain cave
But how much build is enough for you then ? If I’m counting soulbind, covenant a...
but how do those actually change how you play
MM hunter's legendaries aren't that gamechanging
neither are the covenants
the talents are also pretty cut and dry
harsh wedge
It kinda does
cunning fossil
Ugh I hate this discussion so much.
Because it books down to "we're playing a numbers game and that's the only way to play if you want to playm"
subtle oar
How dare people pick things because they might be fun, rather than being a .001%...
Its never .001%. Its always a much much significant %. You dont realize, the majority of players dont like to play with a handicap. The majority will pick what is best because, no one wants to do less damage/healing.
harsh wedge
Indeed
rain cave
what if you wanted to play a MM hunter with more focus on arcane shots, with an effect where casting aimed shot stacks up an efffect you can pop with your arcane shots for massive damage
alternatively just bring back legion MM it was the best the spec ever was
cunning fossil
Its never .001%. Its always a much much significant %. You dont realize, the maj...
So we should just pick one the best tank, best healer, and best DPS in the game and delete them yeah?
So that we don't have to go through "false choice"
rain cave
I miss sidewinders and marked shot so fuckign much
subtle oar
So we should just pick one the best tank, best healer, and best DPS in the game ...
That changes by the patch and you know it.
rain cave
also look at games like path of exile
they have SO much build potential
and sure there are meta builds
but there's loads of them from what I've understood
same with GW2
cunning fossil
That changes by the patch and you know it.
It wouldn't have to if all of them were the same.
Isn't that what the player base wants? The easy way out? The least work for the most output?
Why bother having a spec like Feral Druid in the game if I can play Frost mage instead?
harsh wedge
I mean, that’s the community
cunning fossil
That is what the argument boils down to: It's all a numbers game and if you don't do the absolute biggest number, you're a fucking idiot and you should stop playing.
deep pawn
So that we don't have to go through "false choice"
you just described how most tiers work
harsh wedge
Indeed
subtle oar
You, want to rob the choice of others, Wai, by telling them they cant choose what is best. There is always going to be talent choices. If you want to choose the non-BIS talents/gear, thats up to you. But, no one should be forced to play with someone who willingly chooses to do less dmg/healing/mitigation
deep pawn
People swap classes between tiers constantly
rain cave
the thing is, I just want fun
and more builds is more fun for me
being able to go "what would happen if I stack THOSE effects?"
deep pawn
More builds is meaningless if you can't often pick them
harsh wedge
And most people will want to play with others that have the most optimized build
rain cave
more builds to pick from
deep pawn
The VAST majority of legendaries this expansion are 100% NEVER MADE useless.
cunning fossil
You, want to rob the choice of others, Wai, by telling them they cant choose wha...
WHAT KIND OF TAKE IS THIS??
NO shit there will always be the META. I accept that.
But I don't want to be forced to play meta all the time.
harsh wedge
You aren’t
subtle oar
^
rain cave
remove the talent and covenant choice from the equation then it becomes spec
and people will just look at specs and laugh
deep pawn
What I want is Blizzard to focus on each spec to be extremely cohesive with ONE ability added each expansion and balance that.
subtle oar
WHAT KIND OF TAKE IS THIS??
NO shit there will always be the META. I accept th...
You aren't. Make your own groups/play with friends/make friends. Find a guild that doesn't do that.
cunning fossil
And a majority of people will
And that's ok?
harsh wedge
Who said it was ?
harsh wedge
That is just the reality
deep pawn
I don't like seeing a choice "I wish it was better so I could justify going it"
subtle oar
You cant, however, force others to take someone who willingly takes the subpar options. This is just social behavior at work. People by in large, want to do the best, thus, will take the options that are the best.
rain cave
and my point is provide MORE of what is "the best"
deep pawn
I mean you sound like Blizzard in beta. "Players will surely take the covenant they like the best"
cunning fossil
You cant, however, force others to take someone who willingly takes the subpar o...
How am I forcing this?
Like
Dude
rain cave
if you create more niches
deep pawn
And then have to pull a ripcord when the vast majority when the best
rain cave
there will be more things that are the best for certain things
harsh wedge
No one is forcing anyone, that’s the point
deep pawn
if you create more niches
that just becomes a balancing nightmare.
Which we ALSO saw this expansion
harsh wedge
If you want to play what you want, go on, but they can refuse you for it
rain cave
that just becomes a balancing nightmare.
blizzard are lazy with balancing, but I think it's within scope.
it's not that hard to keep balanced imo
harsh wedge
They already struggle with 36 specs
rain cave
as long as they don't lose track of the vision for each niche effect
subtle oar
Wai, because you want people who like taking the best options, to not have a choice in who they play with. They should be forced to play with you. This doesnt work. They shouldnt be forced to play with you and you shouldnt be forced to play with them. Freedom of Association, be with the people you want.
cunning fossil
If you want to play what you want, go on, but they can refuse you for it
It's too widespread of a belief people need to start accepting viable, rather than just optimal
cunning fossil
Wai, because you want people who like taking the best options, to not have a cho...
Literally how ddiem I have never ever said I must go into the best groups because I cam
Like
rain cave
instead of letting a spec reign as king for an entire patch whilst the bottom feeders hope they roll better on the wheel of fortune next time
deep pawn
Even now, Demo warlock for example is 78% Fae. I promise you that is not the covenant most locks would pick if it was 100% cosmetic
cunning fossil
Dude if you're doing a fucking M+ Lvl 2 you don't need the optimal build ok?
Unless you just fucking suck and you want a carry
harsh wedge
But some will want it
cunning fossil
And that's fine
harsh wedge
That’s the community for you
cunning fossil
Problem is that it's too wide spread that it's required
IT shouldn't be required for every group
deep pawn
I just see "wrong choices" as a source of too many issues for players who don't follow every guide and then get yelled at. I greatly preferred Legion where every spec had the exact same borrowed power.
subtle oar
Literally how ddiem I have never ever said I must go into the best groups becaus...
Then explain yourself better. Because your entire point has boiled down to you dont like the people who go for the best options and you believe they should either not be able to and be forced to play with others who dont do that. So, please help me understand what you itend you point to be.
subtle oar
IT shouldn't be required for every group
Then make your own groups. Be the change you want to see.
deep pawn
it's just not worth the effort or drama usually
I'd rather Blizzard focus on a singular skill for each spec and balance the spec around that, not 4 options that work differently
cunning fossil
Then explain yourself better. Because your entire point has boiled down to you d...
Gonna do a TLDR:
Everyone should be able to play the game, how they would like in some respects. Choice in group members is fine. It's ok to want to be optimal, but you shouldn't be punished for being viable too. Because at the end of the day, unless you're top 5%, we all kinda suck at the game somewhat.
That is it
I am not begging to get into +20 keys with my 246 I'll Main
harsh wedge
You are right but the majority does not think like that
cunning fossil
You are right but the majority does not think like that
This is what depresses me
harsh wedge
Can’t do anything about it so gotta live with it
deep pawn
I played necorlord guardian druid in 9.0 and 9.1. Got KSM both seasons. It was clearly suboptimal but I was a tank who made his own groups largely
I couldn't play any of my off specs though
harsh wedge
And that’s totally fine, but I bet if you went in pugs you’d have a hard time
subtle oar
Gonna do a TLDR:
Everyone should be able to play the game, how they would like ...
You kinda are tho. In the same paragraph you have contradictions. You are not punished for being viable if you are excluded. Period. You aren't entitled to a groups time, and them yours. If a group does not want people who dont take the optimal options, they is completely their right and you have to accept that. Make your own groups/guilds/communities, dedicated to allowing less optimal builds and play that way.
cunning fossil
You kinda are tho. In the same paragraph you have contradictions. You are not pu...
I'm literally being told I can not participate in a portion of content because I happen to make choices that are not optimal man
J don't know how I can explain this any more clearly
harsh wedge
You can participate but again the majority will refuse
cunning fossil
It's not like I do fucking 0 damage when I play necro compared to another Fae Hunter my guy.
subtle oar
You have all the same opprotunities as anyone else to do the content you want.; Period. No one is holding you down telling you no.
harsh wedge
You’ll do damage, but if people know that it is suboptimal they will tell you or make fun of you
Sadly
cunning fossil
Depressing given that it's a game
BUT no
I'm not gonna trash on pptimiEd players
That's fine
It's normal to want to do
I personally wanna make the most optimized version of my sub optimal Hunter
deep pawn
It's just what to expect after 18 years and the game is largely "solved" before the patch goes live.
cunning fossil
I expect it every patch Guys
That's why I Crack jokes
Every patch
"LOL MM queue times gonna be 4 hours again"
I'm literally coping
deep pawn
I haven't had much issue getting into keys on my hunter but I'm not doing super high keys until I get 4p
subtle oar
I personally wanna make the most optimized version of my sub optimal Hunter
Thats what I do. I refuse to play FOTM classes/specs. I will take all the optimal options/build for my chosen spec and play it well. I do not believe myself entitled to play with the people who want to always play the most optimal class/spec. All the guilds I joined for Mythic prog were focused around being optimal but not FOTM. As long as you knew what was best for your class/spec, thats all that mattered.
cunning fossil
Of course. I'm not entitled to join every group
But I was ulster like to be accepted at least
deep pawn
I basically look at ilvl and rating. Yeah it'll be harder to get to those points for "suboptimal" but it's doable
subtle oar
Again, make your own groups.
harsh wedge
As a dps you’re queuing against dozens of other dps
subtle oar
Or find a community dedicated to viability over optimization
cunning fossil
I understand that guys
harsh wedge
People will take people with more score, more ilvl, etc
deep pawn
Honestly SL is the best m+ has been. Looting is better, dungeons are enjoyable. BfA was the low point
subtle oar
Agree to disagree. Its the same old since Legion. Only the dungeons are worse. Its just super fucking boring and repeatitive.
And depleting is fucking stupid
harsh wedge
At least you don’t have to re run the dungeon for nothing to undeplete the key like at the beginning of legion
sonic flame
what will be of bolvar now btw?
subtle oar
Your key should never deplete. If you fail to time the key, you should be able to just retry. Negative progression is utterly fucking stupid in 2022
rain cave
Along with Darion, I guess. They're both titled Highlord.
"I'm highlord"
"No I'M highlord"
deep pawn
Nah. Bolvar is being sent home in retirement with Taelia
glass flicker
You can undeplete a key in Oribos this expansion. No need to run to the dungeon.
Or deplete. Word?
I'm tired.
deep pawn
Darion basically said the Ebon Blade will watch Icecrown and take out any Scourge who try to become warlords
But that Bolvar's place was with his daughter
glass flicker
Watch the San'layn princes and another Blood Queen Lana'Thel show up.
glass flicker
Like, how did the chick even show up in Icecream Citadel with Felo'Melorn?
deep pawn
The paladins take care of them
glass flicker
Those zombie defenses are shabby.
So much for "Leave this place and never return" Bolvar. You dummy.
deep pawn
Scourge are a problem but they aren't "THE PROBLEM" of 10.0
We could still have a scourge dungeon though at level cap
Well they could be the problem if Undead Necromantic Galakrond is the big bad
glass flicker
Imagine if we fought Zovaal in the Forge of Souls rather than Generic Cosmic Location #68
"Death comes for the soul of your world" Yeah, k.
And yes, Galakrond's Necrotic Dragonflight would be badass.
Maybe even Tyr could make a return.
"Ra-Den's dead? FUCK!"
Maybe we even fight Tyr to restore him to his senses.
Oooh, maybe give The Silver Hand, holy paladin artifact, something to do. Like Xal'Atath in BfA.
I was beyond disappointed when the Frost DK artifact went unused as a plot device in Shadowlands.
dense plover
I was beyond disappointed when the Frost DK artifact went unused as a plot devic...
i mean, with its power drained its sort of a nothingburger
the only reason xalatath is significant was because of the creature inside it
deep pawn
The only other artifacts that could do something is Aluneth or Thalkiel. Of the two Aluneth is more likely as a cosmic being of order.
I'd be fine if Thalkiel was burnt and gone being as evil as he was.
glass flicker
Aluneth could always be charged again, Apocalypse and the Scythe of Elune have no reason to drop from the plot, The Ashbringer could have at least been given to Alexandros again, Light's Wrath, I'm pretty sure will be stolen by the Scarlets.
rain cave
aren't the artifacts OVER charged
that's why they stopped working
like a gummed up engine
glass flicker
Yeah, the Ashbringer and Light's Wrath legitimately have no reason to be dropped. Just infuse them with light magic again.
deep pawn
The non sentient artifacts are just fancy pieces of metal
No, the artifacts are burnt out currently
rain cave
burnt out from having too much though
deep pawn
Blew every fuse sorta thing
rain cave
ok
it was weird of them to do that tbh
ik they had to segue them out of the systems/ plot but
glass flicker
It was weirder to drop them from the plot completely.
rain cave
I could definetly see them just doing the
"these weapons are too strong, give them to the orders to protect"
deep pawn
Well supposedly those artifacts are the only reason we could go toe to toe with demon lords.
rain cave
and then in shadowlands instead of having everyone ask "why not use the artifacts" just make it so the drealords steal most of them
which would be an interesting setup
since then they could be dropped into the story whenever
glass flicker
We have two runeblades literally forged from the mourneblade the Jailer's main agent on Azeroth used. And we do nothing with them.
rain cave
or have them locked in dalaran
and dalarans gets robbed
keep them in the story and powerful but not as a potential plot hole
deep pawn
Most of them have 0 reason to show up with 0 power attached to them.
deep pawn
They are museum pieces or lost I presume
rain cave
I could see them keeping the ashbringer
just like on the mantlepiece or something in the silver hand place
deep pawn
For sure but with no naaru light in it it's basically just a bit sword.
rain cave
tbh a burnt out ashbringer model would be cool
but I think we're done with it
at least until turalyon tries to take it as a symbol of his past lordaeron paladin acts
and gets it lightforged
and leads his crusade with it
deep pawn
At most you may see Turalyon or a Scarlet Champion be given it and a Naaru re blesses it but evil.
rain cave
tbh a lightforged style ashbringer would be an interesting twist
if the dragonflight are like covenants where anyone can join anyone
DK's in the red dragonflight are gonna be getting shifty looks
glass flicker
Ashbringer and Light's Wrath.
glass flicker
Have both Turalyon and Alleria infuse it.
rain cave
oh lord
glass flicker
Disc priest was cool.
deep pawn
My guess is that each role is assigned a covenant and tanks are gonna be black themed abilities for their spec.
deep pawn
I think it'll be spec.
glass flicker
I think it'll just be a rehash of covenants and we won't like them.
glass flicker
The black one.
rain cave
if they're going to leave any out it would be blue
deep pawn
Melee, caster, phys ranged, tank, healer.
rain cave
since there isn't a blue dragonflight anymore technically
@deep pawn that's an interesting take
didn't think of it like that
but I think the point of covenants is the choice
and augmenting your class fantasy
so I could see a more reserved but still choice based system
major issue with covenants is that some were design stretches
deep pawn
Healer goes red, tanks black, casters blue, melee bronze, and the hunters get green.
rain cave
yeah doesn't work imo
glass flicker
I would like some more glyphs to make abilities look draconic with each different Flight you side with.
rain cave
druids need green or red
give druids dragon boomkin form
with the same skeleton as zandalari boomkin
deep pawn
My bear needs black scaley abilities
rain cave
but jsut dragon
glass flicker
Here's another hot take. More cosmetic gear from quests rather than at max level.
deep pawn
But as it stands dks can't go red
glass flicker
Give us some of those.
rain cave
But as it stands dks can't go red
this is why I'm thinking 2 choices per class
deep pawn
I suppose they could divide the specs up. 3 healers go green, 3 red.
rain cave
Here's another hot take. More cosmetic gear from quests rather than at max level...
more cosmetic options in general please
like holy fuck we went like 2 expacs with fuck all interesting armour
legion has some bangers
BfA was largely garbage
shadowlands was eh
the new tier is nice though
deep pawn
Well we'll probably have 7 tanks and healer specs with evoker.
rain cave
evoker?
glass flicker
Fake.
deep pawn
That's the current "leak' about the dragon themed class.
glass flicker
Evocation is an arcane school.
glass flicker
And they literally have an ability named evocation.
rain cave
like they're extra specs open to anyone of that armour type
deep pawn
Evocation is just a spell. It could easily be adapted
rain cave
metamorphosis tbf
deep pawn
And demonology had meta. Didn't stop dh
deep pawn
Could be a bad translation
deep pawn
It Invokes the abilities of flights
deep pawn
Supposedly the ranged DPS spec takes a lot from arcane who gets a big rework
rain cave
whilst true they have defined schools and archetypes within lore as well
deep pawn
The simpler a class name the better probably
rain cave
yeah
and unless they are going for a brand new approach to WoW
it should feel like it can fit
right in
deep pawn
Invoker is fine if it's entire bit is invoking dragon magic
deep pawn
Evoker is in the RPGs
deep pawn
So was Boralus until it was
deep pawn
Boralus as capital of kul tiras was an RPG invention that became fully canon in BFA
rain cave
there's a difference between just choosing a name as an extension of something already canon
and just inventing a whole new class concept
from the rpg
we've never seen dragon knights and such in game
not as such a concrete thing
we have known about kultiras
deep pawn
They probably just didn't want dragon knight when one spec is a healer and another is a ranged DPS so went generic
rain cave
evoker doesn't tell you much about the class though
Death Knight, Demon Hunter
they're pretty straight forward XD
deep pawn
And neither would Warrior or Hunter really tell you about how they play in WoW
rain cave
I disagree
they very clearly give an image of their fantasy
even if it's drifted over the years a smidge
deep pawn
Not to me. Warrior has a million things and wow just picks 3
rain cave
WoW picks the 3 that cover 99% of the bases
deep pawn
Hunter is super vague
deep pawn
Mage is vague
rain cave
yeah but you know what it will do
it's a mage
evoker, evokes?
evokes what?
magic?
deep pawn
Rogue is vague. I just don't have an issue with Invoker or Evoker as a name
rain cave
isn't that mage?
evoker overlaps with warlocks and mage too much
imo
it's way too general
doesn't imply a specific school or specialty
deep pawn
Not if the description is Invokes the power of 3 flights
rain cave
closest thing to evoker would be like
summoner
which again
is too vague
Echo, perhaps?
maybe it's about echoing the powers of the dragons
so something to do with echo's
Evoker is just too general a name for a specific class
deep pawn
If it's bronze healing blue dps, and black tank then there's no one name that works
rain cave
especially when it overlaps
which is why I don't think it will be that
because if they're doing dragon class they'll cover all the flights
deep pawn
They don't need to.
rain cave
it would be in poor fashion if they didn't
"you can look like a red dragon, but not play as one"
deep pawn
Druids don't represent all the various groups that exist of them.
rain cave
how so
deep pawn
You can't fight like the talons do.
rain cave
talons?
deep pawn
There's an entire druidic order that specializes in bird forms and fighting that way
rain cave
you can do bird form tho
deep pawn
But it's only as travel
rain cave
yeah but it's represented
deep pawn
Barely
rain cave
maybe evoker is necromancer
summon
evoke
spirits
etc
but shadowlands themed
different covenant themed abilities
deep pawn
No, it's almost certainly dragon themed like how Pandaria had monks and legion had dh
rain cave
well that's if evoker is even the thing lmao
sentiment currently is that it's not
even if there's a dragon class
evoker is probably fake leak
deep pawn
Name of class could be wrong or a German translation or something
rain cave
or it could just
not be real
same as the other dragonflight leak that says 4 mini classes
just luck
deep pawn
I'd be fine with them reworking arcane mage to be a healer and move arcane purple magic to the new class.
rain cave
god no
arcane mage has so much potential to be a good dps spec
and it leaves arcane players fucked
and mage down a spec
mage are the arcane class too
glass flicker
Chronomancer could be the mage healer spec. But I wouldn't like it.
deep pawn
Why are you so worried about basic when one hunter spec is about shooting aimed shots
glass flicker
Not just reverse damage. Also prevent it, and even give CDR to people.
That's how I envision it.
rain cave
yeah I guess
glass flicker
It would be too OP though.
rain cave
but chronomancer suffers from lack of potential ability diversity imo
glass flicker
Yes.
glass flicker
Use the element which breeds life.
rain cave
spell diversity is nice
glass flicker
Lame.
deep pawn
Healers are all pretty similar. They have CDs, they have their long cast efficient heal, fast cast inefficient
glass flicker
I still see priests spamming Flash Heal like they're level 20.
rain cave
also giving mages a healing spec accomplishes what besides being something 'cool'
like I like the cool factor
but
chronomancer doesn't generate much hype imo
deep pawn
Is it spamming if they are casting free insta flash heals
sonic flame
I agree
glass flicker
Outlaw didn't generate as much hype as DH did, so.
rain cave
mage is balanced as a triple DPS spec
sonic flame
If there has to be a new class, I want the tinker ( or engineer, call it what you want )
rain cave
adding chronomancer means another healer with lust
glass flicker
Tinkers are unlikely.
rain cave
tf is left to range auto attack other than tinker
and I don't really want tinker to be clear
deep pawn
If the dragon spec has to cannibalize parts of arcane spec, so be it. Demonology ultimately came out better for it
rain cave
ehhhhhhhhhhhh
that's a hot take I'd say
I like demo but a lot of people prefer the old one
deep pawn
There'll always be people who hate the new.
rain cave
and that's taking a few abilities out of a spec that was already having an identity crisis
for a whole new class
glass flicker
I hope they won't scrape the bottom of the barrel for a new class to generate hype. Just rework older classes like they did Outlaw.
rain cave
whereas, arcane has a firm design
and removing/cannibalizing it just for a new spec?
mage is THE arcane class
glass flicker
And seriously, give Slam some purpose. It's only a small rage dump that may reset Tactician.
rain cave
just like how if you want light you go paladin
if you want arcane
you go mage
or if you like death magic
you goDK
deep pawn
Perhaps it's just taking the time spells and there isn't a blue spec
So no more alter time or time warp for mages
rain cave
or it's not done by spec
and instead there's just different talents for the different flights
within different archetypes
deep pawn
Imagine the salt if mages lost lust
glass flicker
And most important lore characters are mages.
rain cave
I think fire mage is like
deep pawn
They'd survive losing lust as long as they have ice block
glass flicker
Medivh, Azshara, Jaina, Khadgar, even Illidan was a mage.
rain cave
mate they don't have to lose lust at all
they can have a dragon class without removing other shit
mages fantasy is solid
more solid than some others
rain cave
new class has to be new
if people sniff that they're just dividing specs
and making a class out of it
❎
deep pawn
If they make a bronze healer or dps they'll want all the time spells
rain cave
which is why they won't do that
deep pawn
They have before
glass flicker
They can't just make a dragon class. They can make dragon covenants and call them Flights, but not a dummy thicc dragon.
glass flicker
I can think of specs for the dragon class, though.
deep pawn
They drastically remade an entire spec.
rain cave
to make 1 spec
glass flicker
Shouter
Drake Knight
Nexus Caster
rain cave
I could see a 2 spec class
one focusing on channeling the physical forms of dragons
scalewarden
deep pawn
Mages have just two time spells right now, time warp and alter time right?
rain cave
other being the magic
glass flicker
And what's their excuse for fighting in humanoid form rather than dragon form?
rain cave
Mages have just two time spells right now, time warp and alter time right?
arcane has time anomaly as well
rain cave
And what's their excuse for fighting in humanoid form rather than dragon form?
they're not dragons?
glass flicker
"Ams 2 weak" doesn't count.
deep pawn
It's speculated to be a drakonid race rather than full on dragons
rain cave
same as why don't demon hunters fight in meta all the time
glass flicker
So turning into a dragon would be a burst CD.
deep pawn
There's a ton of drakonids out there that are not that strong
glass flicker
That's so lame.
glass flicker
That's a different game.
deep pawn
I haven't used that in so long I forgot it existed
glass flicker
And for the record, Greymane works better in HotS switching between worgen and human at will.
deep pawn
I think drakonids would be more like worgen but get to choose their form in combat
Their human form will just reuse dh customization
rain cave
I could see either a straight dragon race with human forms
and racial flying mount of themselves
or a dragon themed class with extra customizations like DK and DH
glass flicker
I think drakonids would be more like worgen but get to choose their form in comb...
And if one form is far better than the other, making one of the forms useless?
deep pawn
So a drakonid race will start locked as high and night elf
rain cave
chromie doesn't use her dragon form in combat
deep pawn
And if one form is far better than the other, making one of the forms useless?
Purely cosmetic
glass flicker
Sure, have a dragon do 3 damage with an auto attack.
deep pawn
If the race just reused DH customizations for a humanoid form it'd make sense. Most dragons lore wise take elf forms anyways
glass flicker
Except for the black and blue dragons.
Most of the black dragons are misc races, with Deathwing, Wrathion, Onyxia and Sinestra being human.
deep pawn
Thought Wrathion had pointy ears under his turban?
rain cave
Also, the DH options that would potentially get shared, are easily applied to everyone
Aka horns
The other DH stuff doesn't make sense
deep pawn
I'm imagining horns and the scaly skin options
glass flicker
I'm imagining eye glows based on all flights.
deep pawn
It's often covered by armor but dh can have black scales and claws
rain cave
Ik
glass flicker
But again, I'm very skeptical about a new dragon race or class. Wishing is fine, but be realistic.
rain cave
But those scales are fel
Also keep in mind alexstrasza just looks normal in the new art
No extra dragon traits
deep pawn
New classes and new races sell expansions. Many people feel shadowlands is missing a new class.
glass flicker
Maybe that's because she chooses not to show dragon traits?
Look at Wrathion after Anduin punched him.
deep pawn
The scales and horns would be a choice.
glass flicker
Their humanoid disguises can fade.
rain cave
But if they're selling an expansion with it...
glass flicker
And look at, for example Malygos in artwork.
He clearly has draconic traits.
And dumb bug legs.
young latch
I hope whatever is new doesn’t look like a boring elf
deep pawn
People will get mad if they don't add a ranged spec, and they really like adding tanks and healers.
I want beefy dragon forms that can go elf if people can't stand scales
glass flicker
Kalec would look the most human if not for the blue hair, imo.
He's a Twitter user.
ancient jasper
It is kind of strange that out of the 3 Classes they've added to the game since the start not a single one has had a Ranged spec lol
young latch
My issue is that the demon hunters already look plenty draconic so elf with horns would make me very sad lol
glass flicker
Yeah, maybe they're saving that up for the Dark class.
Lead by a San'layn and Dark Ranger Velonara, these elves have Dark Rangers, Necromancers, and Hemomancers.
As specs.
ancient jasper
We killed the last of the San'layn
glass flicker
They can use bows, guns, crossbows, staves, polearms, 2H swords and 2H axes.
ancient jasper
Wait, what?
glass flicker
Ghostlands.
deep pawn
The blood elf quest villain is San Layn
ancient jasper
... Uh huh. Blizz can't seem to make up their minds about stuff lol
glass flicker
9.2.5 belf heritage quest.
young latch
Apparently all dark rangers have been darkfallen the whole time so yeah
They have been amogus
deep pawn
Or vampire elves are too iconic for them to wipe out when the scourge are everywhere
glass flicker
Sussy bakas.
deep pawn
Shadowlands basically ends with the idea the scourge will be an ever present threat on Azeroth
ancient jasper
You would think with the massive bloody space ship we could've done a LOT of damage to the Scourge in Northrend at the very least.
deep pawn
There's just too many and can spread to easily to eliminate
Shhh, that ship doesn't exist
Until we need to space travel again with old Anduin
glass flicker
The Vindicaar apparently spent its energy blowing a hole in Antorus for us.
It is also the most powerful weapon currently on Azeroth, safe for Gorribal.
ancient jasper
Just shove some of the leftover Azerite in to it. Should be good to go in no time
deep pawn
It's technically in space
deep pawn
Lightbound for some reason never used it
But they just left room for the void elves to be morally gray
And dark irons I suppose
glass flicker
Tfw roleplayers in Stormwind actively hunted velf players IC.
"tHeY aRe AbOmInAtIoNs"
deep pawn
Oh velf definitely exist only to make the alliance less goody two shoes
glass flicker
Other races already serve that purpose though?
deep pawn
Not as blatantly
glass flicker
Neutral humans already exist. Night elves are xenophobic assholes.
deep pawn
Void elves are the alliance's forsaken
ancient jasper
Nah Velves exist because Blizzard decided they couldn't be arsed to find a way to give Alliance a believably different version of High Elves without just giving a straight up copy of Blood Elves.. Which they ended up doing in the end anyways. lol
glass flicker
Why are they even named the Forsaken after Sylvanas... Forsook them. Fuck.
young latch
Humans and nelves were already imperfect tho
glass flicker
I would have loved them to adopt The Redeemed name as a people with Calia.
young latch
I didn’t think velves added much that wasn’t already there on the alliance
glass flicker
Velf makes good frost mage ngl.
ancient jasper
If they really needed a morally grey option they already have Worgen they could've used
ancient jasper
Have the Worgen go on a crusade against the Horde and start shit because they didn't get good enough retribution or some shit
young latch
Genn used to be more horrible before losing gilneas
glass flicker
Because that's not done to death with Tyrande's plot.
And also Genn's Legion plot.
ancient jasper
Not now, obviously, but they could have previously
young latch
I think they can still
glass flicker
And that whole "choose justice/renewal not vengeance" thing they had with Shadowlands is absolutely bonkers.
It's absurd.
young latch
“B-but t-teldrasil” is no excuse to make the story boring forever. Make alliance do some bad stuff.
glass flicker
I would have forever glorified Tyrande if she nuked herself with Sylvanas.
ancient jasper
Well it was either that or they had to kill Tyrande off which would have pissed Night Elf players off even more
glass flicker
And the unawareness of Sylvanas. Goodness gracious.
ancient jasper
I mean we still have Alleria/Turalyon torturing people for information so we'll have to see how that goes
glass flicker
So she meets the Jailer, he tells her his 69D chess plan, gets her ressed, then Sylvanas just fucks around as events which Zovaal somehow predicted happens and only questions if it's morally just when the big bald evil man says "serve"
young latch
I mean we still have Alleria/Turalyon torturing people for information so we'll ...
This is depicted as something like all the leaders do at some point so idk if it’s dramatic enough
ancient jasper
Honestly considering what we've seen of Turalyon he's a bit of a zealot so I expect him to do some crazy shit FOR THE LIGHT pretty soon.
glass flicker
Why is Detheroc fat?
young latch
So she meets the Jailer, he tells her his 69D chess plan, gets her ressed, then ...
Well keep in mind baldy literally owns a piece of her soul and convinces her to join with him after several attempts after she keeps losing life lines
ancient jasper
Did we ever get any more information on the female Dreadlord that we saw? I quit a while back so not completely up on the most recent lore
glass flicker
Yeah, I still have no clue who the fuck Kin'Tessa is.
Mal'ganis' wife or some shit.
young latch
Yeah she was completely new i think
young latch
Mal'ganis' wife or some shit.
She’s obviously Jaina tho
ancient jasper
Was about to say lol
glass flicker
Can't be. They were in the same room.
ancient jasper
Pfft Jaina obviously has Mirror Image xD
glass flicker
So?
ancient jasper
Mirror Image and has one of the Images drop human disguise or she drops the disguise 😄
glass flicker
The dreadlord Jaina joke got old quick after her HotS model got popular on r34.
ancient jasper
Dreadlord Jaina has been a thing since loooong before HotS xD
young latch
Well the joke is still funny because “how she was written in mists was real stupid”
glass flicker
The woman lost her city, her apprentice which she promised she would keep safe, and the leader of the Kirin Tor and her best friend's husband.
ancient jasper
Jaina has went through some serious shit, yes.
glass flicker
Jaina in Mists was justified. But stupid.
ancient jasper
Always getting slapped in the face for every overture of peace. Her own father being an idiot. Her mother damning her to eternal torture. Just to name a few.
glass flicker
I swear she didn't deserve this.
And she's done even more sloppily in Shadowlands.
ancient jasper
Depends on who you ask. The World of pEaCEcraFT people have wanted to kill her off for ages.
glass flicker
They hired Laura Bailey for 3 speaking lines total.
ancient jasper
In her late 30's or early 40s I think
glass flicker
Early forties. Like 41.
glass flicker
She was like 16-17, Arthas was 19-21.
rain cave
Ah
glass flicker
Arthas was a big boi ngl.
rain cave
Arthas is European confirmed
ancient jasper
She looks a bit older because the Mana Bomb fucked her up pretty badly
glass flicker
That wasn't just the manabomb.
rain cave
Will it's mainly because WoW is set at base like 13 years after isn't it
glass flicker
All mages will have white hair eventually.
rain cave
Then add the life span of the game on top
ancient jasper
True because apparently Mages live longer canonically, right?
rain cave
And Garrosh laughed his ass off.
He hates war crimes, however his definition of warcrime is "things I didn't do"
glass flicker
I'm pretty sure Queen Azshara didn't always have white hair for example.
And have you noticed all Nightborne in Suramar have white hair?
Even glowy in some cases.
ancient jasper
She had it during her Warbringers cinematic and not 100% how old she is there
glass flicker
Like 10k
ancient jasper
Damn she's old lol
glass flicker
She was still the ruler before Illidan's imprisonment.
ancient jasper
Freaking Elves/Trolls and their immortality
rain cave
Warbringers is also set after her first appearance in game
glass flicker
So 10k confirmed.
Consider that even Tyrande is 10k+
So many years of life, so little patience.
rain cave
I love tyrande
She's such a fun character
Watching her go sicko mode after a while of her trend of peacefulness
rain cave
Say what you will about this xpac but I get goosebumps whenever tyrande takes the stage
ancient jasper
Guess the PTR definitely isn't coming back up tonight lol
glass flicker
Tyrande is still a clown for taking the Night Warrior powers only as an excuse to have a new model.
Who's to say she couldn't shoot moon beams from space before?
ancient jasper
It was weird learning that all Night Warriors eventually became genocidal maniacs
glass flicker
Who killed their own people.
And also that their powers still work while they are completely different people in another plane of reality.
Meanwhile, people like Huln Highmountain are just blue.
At least Kael'thas keeps his proficiency for pyromancy, I guess.
ancient jasper
There were a few people I'd have liked to have seen in the Shadowlands, but.. shrug Cairn would've been near the top of my list
ancient jasper
Hm.. What're the chances they're just going to leave it down until the 19th to avoid the possibility of accidentally showing something they shouldn't?
glass flicker
It's likely.
cunning fossil
Hm.. What're the chances they're just going to leave it down until the 19th to a...
Not unlikely yeah
young latch
I hope blizzard starts remembering horde characters exist
And gives them stories
Lol
glass flicker
The crux of two expansions in a row was a horde character. What are you on about?
subtle oar
@vernal juniper we already know the xpac name.
harsh wedge
Mobile app with heroic and epic edition just like shadowlands did ?
vernal juniper
I also think it will be the game expantion but I never use a 100% until it is official.
About the mobile app, I wrote the 1st thing I could think about it
the mobil app will be probably free with microtransactions
plain violet
So eager to see...
rain cave
Mobile app with heroic and epic edition just like shadowlands did ?
I don't think it is the mobile app to clarify, however if they're launching a big new mobile product, I could definitely see them borrowing the naming scheme for the starter bundles
but again, I doubt it's actually the mobile app
harsh wedge
That'd be disappointing if it was the name of the mobile app
rain cave
That'd be disappointing if it was the name of the mobile app
🤷♂️
the logo on the leaked artwork had a different looking logo
harsh wedge
But people thought the name "Battle for Azeroth" was the name of a mobille app when it was first leaked
rain cave
whatever the mobile app is I could see it being a classic like experience on mobile
something for people to just log on whenever
and play a bit
I'm also surprised nobody's added much scepticism since the CDN dragonflight stuff was found the day after april fools
which implies it was up on april fools day to me
imagine if the dragonflight stuff was just an april fools joke that got out of hand
since it only blew up the day after
rain cave
dragon mount promo with the mobile game
artwork could be for the mobile game
like it's A explanation
don't think it's the THE explanation though
just worth taking the options in
deep pawn
Plus it coming out just before the 10.0 event, yeah, dragonflight is the expansion. I'll be stunned if it's not
rain cave
Plus it coming out just before the 10.0 event, yeah, dragonflight is the expansi...
Likewise
but I'll probably be stunned regardless
vernal juniper
imagine if the dragonflight stuff was just an april fools joke that got out of h...
I HOPE SO I love the WTF moment.
harsh wedge
With the new encrypted backs being encrypted the same ways as "9fx_drakemountemerald_buff_4219045", and them being 5 we can guess it'd be one per dragon flight and it should remove it from being an april fools
rain cave
With the new encrypted backs being encrypted the same ways as "9fx_drakemounteme...
new encrypted backs?
harsh wedge
rain cave
cosmetic cloaks?
or are they combining legendary pandaria cloaks with the legendary bfa cloak
harsh wedge
Should be, could be cosmetic wings with the preorder
rain cave
in terms of setup
deep pawn
Moar wings!
rain cave
wewz
harsh wedge
It is encrypted the same way as the mount that was a way back
Should just be preorder stuff
rain cave
one for each mini class + base expansion cosmetic
but yeah hopefully it's a bunch of cool stuff
rain cave
how would they look?
just folded wings on the back that occasionally open up?
or maybe they have goblin glider functionality
kek
deep pawn
Think warlock helm, or the kyrian wings
rain cave
yeah, and they're kind of eh
harsh wedge
Or tne necrolord cloak that has little bit of animation
rain cave
demon hunters have nice wings because they can use them
deep pawn
The warlock helm is cool when it flaps when jumping
rain cave
is the other information about these backs useful?
like the model resource id
they all share a model, but have different materials
is what I'm understanding from this
harsh wedge
Apart from "proving" that they are all the same with different fluffs which would make it more likely for it to be wings depending on the dragonflight not much
Rest is encrypted
rain cave
tbh I'd be a bit let down if they are just fleshy wings with different colours you stick on your back
can't wait to see void elf warlocks with heritage chest, warlock wing helmet and these one
upper pasture
kinda wish with the legendary they would just just us a new say "relic" slot for a legendary and let us gear the rest of our character like normal and not have to worry about what spot is going to be our leggo
kinda like when classes had flavor gear like relic and stuff
upper pasture
i guess but not a whole page for it just a little spot on your character gear page and you can drag and drop whatever leggo you want to use at will
harsh wedge
Minus the fact you need to be at the forge of soulbind instead of everywhere, that's a conduit
upper pasture
i mean, do you remember Relics from classic?
harsh wedge
It coexisted with legendaries
rain cave
it's not really a conduit
because conduits aren't comparable to legendaries
and you can have multiple conduits
harsh wedge
The system would be kinda the same, that's what I meant
rain cave
also conduits aren't equipped they're slotted in to a larger tree in soulbinds
I thin he means like having unique items with unique effects that you just equip in a new slot on your character screen
I want unique looking, impactful, questline legendaries back
upper pasture
the system is going to be the same anyways i don't want to give up a item slot for a leggo i'd rather there be a slot just for leggos specifically
harsh wedge
Like... Artifact weapons ?
rain cave
but for the equivalent of shadowlands legendaries, where everyone is meant to have one
upper pasture
eh, i like getting new weapons
rain cave
Like... Artifact weapons ?
no
because artifact weapons were an entire feature in and of themselves
I mean like, "oh the bronze dragonflight are doing X, if you help them by doing these quests for a few weeks by raiding or doing other stuff, you'll get a special legendary weapon"
and it has a strong, but fairly simple extra effect compared to things like artifacts
harsh wedge
But that's not different from current or past legendary iterations tho
rain cave
it's different from current
similar to past
and that's why I said I want it back
because they did things like that before
I also like the idea of them doing more tradeoff positive and negative effects
like how jaithys would lose secondary stats as you empower it
and some of the trinkets as of late have drawbacks
a relic slot for more general legendary 'effects' could be cool
e.g. things like less crit chance but more crit damage
or the examples of niche effects I gave last night
harsh wedge
Depends if we have to trade off more interesting effects for that
rain cave
I enjoy even minor effects if we have quite a few
like in soulbinds there's a tiny version of brewmaster stagger anyone can get
I'd be happy to even get some passive effects like you get a damage buff based off of 1% of your groups healing or some shit
like it only gives you at the VERY most, 5-10% dmg, but depending on your comp it could be the best for a minor effect like that
since what if you have disc priests? what if people are negating damage instead of healing it?
what if the boss blocks healing?
or alternatively, what if there's a burn phase that you have to heal through
like the big stone dude in nyalotha
harsh wedge
I mean, why not, but that is already in the game as you said
rain cave
yeah I want MORE
and instead of them being in the soulbind paths
make those effects the conduits, effectively
I'd love to be able to make builds independent of spec
like have a bunch of the overall class options influence how your core abilities are used
like playing as DK with more focus on runeforging
or domination
a mage with more chrono magic, or frostfire
replacing warriors rallying cry with an alternate effect as an option
etc
rain cave
https://i.imgur.com/45xq8WS.png
where'd you find it?
plain violet
Fake yeah.
A spanish shared it without adding on it, in a tweet. The blur is intentional.
plain violet
It's a Horde garrison type building yes, so Arathi or Frostridge..
rain cave
actually it could even be borean tundra right?
but yeah the familiarity was the red flag
is it like confirmed fake?
or just very likely fake
vernal juniper
where'd you find it?
mmo, they are saying there is a more detailed one
plain violet
I didn't find any more detailed one...
vernal juniper
let me search if I find it.
vernal juniper
strange falcon
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1514570226284773376
From wowhead:
These 5 back pieces are locked behind the same encryption key as the previously datamined mount and pet, which are likely tied to the Digital Deluxe bonus of the next expansion.
so it could just be EVEN MORE store stuff, woo.
rain cave
there's the higher rez version for anyone curious
I like the little concepts attached to each, since they actually reflect the probable day to day doings of each dragonflight
upper pasture
Those…are descriptions alright
rain cave
even if they're a bit off
but then again if it does turn out to be real (doubtful), it could just be alpha text
that being said this UI looks, strange.
and yeah it looks like a horde place, but I can't put my finger on exactly where
is it the garrison?
to elaborate on the UI though, even if it's placeholder you'd think they'd present it as something more grand
and also be somewhere dragon related
upper pasture
Looks like the allied race building with the totems in the back you can see the high mountain totem and ma’gar orc one
rain cave
you're right!
that's what it is then I think
interesting
I'd also like to point out that the wall appears to be a chalkboard
upper pasture
Idk dragonflights might be the thing but this definitely doesn’t smell right
rain cave
I'd love a chalkboard wall
sounds like a good office space thing
for design and notes
upper pasture
Like, all the dragonflights protect the world
rain cave
yeah but that's only when called to it
what if the dragonflight system is just purely cosmetic/ flavourful
upper pasture
So why is that the only thing they can come up with for the green. Arguably the most fleshed out flight to date
upper pasture
That’s what I’m leaning towards
rain cave
I will say that, the monitor in the image looks very similar to blizzards monitors in office
upper pasture
And? It looks just like the monitors my wife has too
rain cave
🤷♂️
just noting everything down
that being said I can't find a high res/closer up image of blizz's office spaces
deep pawn
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1514570226284773376
I wondered what the live patch was
125mb
plain violet
Looks like the allied race building with the totems in the back you can see the ...
Effectively it is...
The descriptions are a bit of non-sense. Seem.. really suspect.
deep pawn
Here's hoping the dragon cloaks are scaly wings
rain cave
I hope they're more interesting than just