#beta-ptr-spoilers | Wowhead: World of Warcraft (WoW) | Page 626

rain cave Apr 7, 2022, 4:42 PM

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they don't want us relying on gods

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ethereal upper beings who think they're better than us

rain cave Apr 7, 2022, 5:35 PM

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I mean, maybe they could do that as a plot thread. But I don't think we'll see it through, if anything that will lead to him going mad faster

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oh yeah and to link that back

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ragnarok can be translated as "twilight of the gods"

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hour of twilight -> end times -> nozdorumu + murozond

deep pawn Apr 7, 2022, 5:59 PM

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He supposedly doesn't have the ability to shatter the timelines as he is right now

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so that's what makes me think the aspects get powered up

rain cave Apr 7, 2022, 7:57 PM

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deep pawn He supposedly doesn't have the ability to shatter the timelines as he is right n...

makes you think that if the power that allowed them to maintain the "one true" vision of time, gave them a golden hue

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what kind of power would he need to splinter it into a thousand different possible truths/ timelines

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and also make him fit a darker colour scheme

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makes ya think

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👀

deep pawn Apr 7, 2022, 8:10 PM

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He was convinced by the void to do so, but it reads as his own powers doing it.

rain cave Apr 7, 2022, 9:41 PM

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deep pawn He was convinced by the void to do so, but it reads as his own powers doing it.

but then he doesn't have those powers anymore

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and I doubt the titans will come back and empower them, they lost the powers for a reason, and the titans are a bit busy with the sargeras court case atm

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even if he gets his powers back some other way, most of the time characters trying to gain power is seen as a bad thing in WoW

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so that path will most likely just lead to him becoming evil kneevil

deep pawn Apr 7, 2022, 9:49 PM

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Azeroth empowers them

rain cave Apr 7, 2022, 10:04 PM

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fair point

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:09 AM

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yeah I think they will do like that

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and when the levels get out of hand again ( like 100+ ) they'll squish to 50 again

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:22 AM

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@sonic flame the leak never says pushing people back to 50

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it says keeping at 60

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which is more likely than you think

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just keep scaling gear up from where we are now, and focus less on the leveling experience, more on content for people to experience

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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so like no leveling?

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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yes

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quest content would still be there

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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that's not possible

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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yes it is

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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just scaling gear I meam

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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they're doing it every patch my man

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if anything it helps the scaling gear problem

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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no because at 60 the quantity of secondary stats you need to achieve a percentual is fixated

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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and they can change that

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:23 AM

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and also what about the question and shit

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no it won't happen

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:24 AM

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because keep in mind the problem you are talking about

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is actually doubled

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by leveling

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because whilst levelling you're increasing level AND ilvl

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so the scaling gets whack

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if we just keep things within a similar frame of scaling

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it's easier for timewalking, easier for gear scaling

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if they keep up the idea of having raids come back and be relevant

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like they're doing in 9.2.5

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makes sense

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instead of having to rescale every time there's an xpac

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you can just bring it up to the gear level

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they can only do so many squishes after all before levels 1-50 are a difference of a few stat points

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it's unhealthy

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letting ilvl continue from where we are now would be the play imo

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and not increasing level cap

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that's if they want a truly transformative experience

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:26 AM

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sonic flame and also what about the question and shit

what question

sonic flame Apr 8, 2022, 1:27 AM

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LOL

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keyboard miss type, sorry

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meant questing

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it would be an xpac without questing

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:28 AM

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not true at all

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if anything it means they can have more

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since they're not limited to having the quests be a levelling experience

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they can just make the quests as story content

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we already have things like covenant campaigns

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and patch story campaigns

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legion had its order hall campaigns and people loved those

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questing doesn't have to be a levelling experience

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(if anything, if it's not levelling content it's purer)

subtle oar Apr 8, 2022, 1:49 AM

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sonic flame it would be an xpac without questing

Nope. It would be that the purpose of questing wouldnt be to level but to actually focus of delivering a story.

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:50 AM

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subtle oar Nope. It would be that the purpose of questing wouldnt be to level but to actual...

yup

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could be the break we need

deep pawn Apr 8, 2022, 1:57 AM

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Blizzard loves resetting gear though

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Even if we don't level there'd be something like a 50-100 ilvl boost through the story into m0

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 1:58 AM

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deep pawn Even if we don't level there'd be something like a 50-100 ilvl boost through the...

perhaps

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but with each individual ilvl being more impactful

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and them potentially wanting to keep older content relevant

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I could see them just adding the new xpacs gear as like

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1.5x a raid tier gap

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or 2x

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I want them to get experimental

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and with the diminishing returns on stats, they could just keep us gearing upwards

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or just change how stats are weighted for the new xpac

deep pawn Apr 8, 2022, 2:06 AM

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I'm still leaning towards every expansion getting squished now since they've already done the work

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 2:06 AM

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squishes aren't ideal

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they can't do it forever

deep pawn Apr 8, 2022, 2:06 AM

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They apparently use "timewalking" to scale raids up and down

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 2:06 AM

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well yeah they've been refining the timewalking tech for a while

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9.2.5 looks to keep it going in a major way

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ideally we'd end up having multiple raids every patch be viable gearing methods

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and some select old dungeons rotating in

deep pawn Apr 8, 2022, 2:55 AM

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I mean when they make a raid, they scale it up using the tw tech to make a proper challenge

urban spire Apr 8, 2022, 3:01 AM

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season 4 is definitely an experiment

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and i'm all for it

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like in 9.1.5

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erm let me try to restart my point

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say we have launch which is 10.0
we get our raid and thats it for now, 10.0.5 comes out, slight bit of content but not much new, 10.1 comes out we get a new raid.
10.1.5 releases, and this time they do what they're doing in season 4 of shadowlands so that there is more content to tie us into 10.2 since it's generally been a few month gap between big +0.1 patches

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basically, we get the first raid upscaled now that the second one has had its time to shine and we have a mini "updated" raid tier with maybe a slight ilvl increase and making both raids relevant until 10.2 releases with a new raid

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and then they can keep that trend going on and on

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if they want to take it further, in the 0.5 patches they can have a timewalking version of this that updates a more modern raid to act like this, i'm thinking it would probably be restricted to cata or mop and up since wotlk would be hard to do since the raids would be trivial in todays environment

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but I'm really interested to see where they go with this

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even if it's just limited to an end of expansion thing that's still a huge plus considering it lessens the impact of the content drought

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 12:01 PM

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@urban spire I'd prefer if they just had it constantly on

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obv scaling up over time but

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always have old dungeons in rotation

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and a different raid/raids

urban spire Apr 8, 2022, 12:58 PM

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Having it always on for raids would dilute the new tiers though so I don’t know how I feel about it there

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 12:59 PM

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urban spire Having it always on for raids would dilute the new tiers though so I don’t know ...

how so?

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if they're going to exist adjacently in 9.2.5 they can exist adjacently whenever, as long as it's done well

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it would be interesting since instead of new tiers demanding new builds, it allows new builds

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combine the 2 pieces of different tiers, at the same ilvl

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or go all in for the 4 pc

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unique items from older raids can be combo'd with newer effects

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creates more of a sandbox

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I think people are too worried about a nonexistent sanctity around only allowing one raid a tier, or one set or whatever, just the overall "tier" mentality

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back in legion people used tier sets for ages because of how strong they were

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even 2 raids ahead

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I'd rather they focus on effects than stats and raw ilvl

cunning fossil Apr 8, 2022, 3:18 PM

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Saint does have a point

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We complain about no new content but aren't willing to let content live out their actual lifespans

deep pawn Apr 8, 2022, 3:25 PM

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Blizzard's data apparently shows people don't play much without noticeable upgrades

cunning fossil Apr 8, 2022, 3:28 PM

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Who ever said that it doesn't mean to be an upgrade?

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Like yes it's the same gear, but new gear will come along to either compete with it or synergies potentially

strange falcon Apr 8, 2022, 3:44 PM

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rain cave back in legion people used tier sets for ages because of how strong they were

And blizzard showed they didnt like that, to the point where they nerfed any tierset that wasn't the last raid's into the ground, and then removed tiersets the expac after

strange falcon Apr 8, 2022, 3:45 PM

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cunning fossil We complain about no new content but aren't willing to let content live out thei...

So its not just the players side, but also the devs sides, both get the blame

cunning fossil Apr 8, 2022, 3:48 PM

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strange falcon So its not just the players side, but also the devs sides, both get the blame

Well yes. I know that

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The devs make the game at the end of the day

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If they don't make healthy gaming habits, none can come up

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 3:49 PM

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deep pawn Blizzard's data apparently shows people don't play much without noticeable upgra...

add more upgrades badabing badaboom

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like it's either make a healthy content schedule or be smart with the content available

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and blizz have suffered so many times from trying to do the first

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WoD, Shadowlands

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some other patches too

uncut lintel Apr 8, 2022, 4:01 PM

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o-o

rain cave Apr 8, 2022, 4:03 PM

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I mean, if they want to go really crazy.

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a boss rush mode with scaling difficulty/ general modifiers

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random boss from the current raid pools, with one of the new raid effects they're adding in 9.2.5

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I'd like to see that experimented with first though

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if it actually works well in practice could be a hit or miss both internally for development as well as end player experience

cunning fossil Apr 9, 2022, 3:35 PM

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Sounds wild tbh

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Race to world firsters would be malding

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 3:55 PM

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cunning fossil Race to world firsters would be malding

why do you think so? I want to hear the different opinions on a system like that since as I said it could be bad or good depending on implementation :p

cunning fossil Apr 9, 2022, 4:10 PM

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Ph sorry it was more so a joke

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:29 PM

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lol

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world first is so weird

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like obv it's a great achievement to do it

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but it isn't like, a big official tournament/ event

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it's just something that guilds try to do

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but now it's become like a massive sponsorship thing people actually get involved with as an almost professional thing

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instead of just a bunch of elite guilds trying to see who can beat it first

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and they race so hard that they burn out hard and don't want to play anymore even some of the winners

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instead of just

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enjoying it

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it's almost unsolvable though, since whoever steps down will inevitably be filled by somebody else

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:31 PM

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rain cave instead of just a bunch of elite guilds trying to see who can beat it first

it's "which guild has the deepest pockets" now, reportedly, liquid spent 93thousand dollars for the 9.2 race

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:31 PM

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why and how

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I know they use a lot of consumables but

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bloody hell

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:32 PM

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buying gear

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:32 PM

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I think blizzard lowering their official coverage of it

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would help

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:32 PM

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10M gold for a tier set piece

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:32 PM

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like congratulate whoever gets it first

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but they regularly post updates and streams on their channels I think

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and make coverage

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the achievement already exists in game for world first

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:33 PM

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rain cave I think blizzard lowering their official coverage of it

they won't do it, because it's basically one of the last positive PR publicity they get nowadays

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:33 PM

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but it's been turning negative

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like this race all I've seen is people complaining, even though the problems aren't blizzard's fault

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(by en large)

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:34 PM

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rain cave like this race all I've seen is people complaining, even though the problems are...

well of course, blizzard overtuned bosses to make the race last longer, and it reached an unprecedented length and people burned out

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:35 PM

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rain cave enjoying it

they dont want to have self control, because it means someone else will take their spot on the podium,
it's like a kid eating ice cream, he will only stop when he's unable to move from brain freeze

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:35 PM

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I mean maybe they should make it more like an actual tournament

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release the raid, but then make a difficulty that's like a limited resources mythic

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tournament mythic

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let the teams duke it out there

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like the M+ tournaments

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:36 PM

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i think tournament realms where ilvl is static, and they spawn right inside the raid (and EVERYONE can join)
would deal with both the gear trading, and equalize everyone on an equal skill playing field

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rather than requiring thousands of dollars to participate

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:36 PM

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however it would trivialize the actual achievement itself

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somewhat

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because it's not being done in the actual game

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on a server others are on

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:36 PM

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you can copy your char over

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and then it gets the achiev back

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:37 PM

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yeah but then that implies the only people who can get world first are people officially supported by blizzard

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instead of it being a thing anyone can do

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removes the everyman aspect

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:37 PM

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anyone can join the tournament realm, its free and open

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:37 PM

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I guess you could do it like that

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:37 PM

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whoever gets first gets the world first achiev

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:38 PM

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but then it's like

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cheapening the live server experience almost

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since if you just want to do mythic, go to the realm

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if we tournament realm everything the game won't feel like a MMO

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it's a tough problem

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I'd say removing reliance on consumables, or adding infinite use consumables that can't stack with eachother

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:39 PM

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rain cave if we tournament realm everything the game won't feel like a MMO

the tournament realm is open only until first 3 guilds kill it

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:39 PM

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like a recipe that can drop from a mythic boss that allows infinite potion/flask in that raid

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or on that boss

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idk

strange falcon Apr 9, 2022, 4:40 PM

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there is certainly ways to go about it, they could even just not do tournament realms, and instead make a buff that says your ilvl is static and capped until first guild clears it

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they have the tech

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but they dont want to get involved, because everytime they have gotten involved in competitive/esports it has gone poorly, or very low views

rain cave Apr 9, 2022, 4:41 PM

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I guess but to me WoW tournaments are boring, and not the main attraction

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like the PvP and M+ tournaments mean jack shit to me

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not sure how popular they even are

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competitive WoW just feels oxymoronic to me

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that's basically why I like this experimenting

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since even if it makes things potentially more wild, the balance could be finnicky

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unbalanced fun is better than balanced not fun

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I think hearthstone kind of accepted that at some point, not played it in ages though

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make something fun then try balance it in if it is unbalanced, don't be afraid to iterate and see how things react

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you can always just undo a change if it's too much

young latch Apr 10, 2022, 2:54 PM

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competitive wow is completely fine and it hurts nobody if it just stays its own thing

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 2:57 PM

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young latch competitive wow is completely fine and it hurts nobody if it just stays its own ...

Yeah

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I know

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But at the same time people have tended to want the Rpg aspects to come back more

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Like the majority of the playerbase aren't competitive I'd say

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And to clarify, I mean that in like a literal only playing to compete way

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So I'd say let things be fun and unbalanced before being competitive and securely balanced

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As balance can always be adjusted, design is harder to change

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 3:14 PM

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young latch competitive wow is completely fine and it hurts nobody if it just stays its own ...

But it does.

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You can see this in the stigma against Survival Hunters and Feral druids

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Doesn't matter if they're decent

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They ain't meta so you are way less likely to get invited into keys

young latch Apr 10, 2022, 3:35 PM

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cunning fossil They ain't meta so you are way less likely to get invited into keys

ye but keys are 4 people and i can wrangle up 4 friends very easily

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it's more of a problem for raiding because you usually need the sweet spot of 15 people and tbqh i don't have 14 friends who will consistently play wow

strange falcon Apr 10, 2022, 3:36 PM

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"I can do keys with friends so the problem doesnt exist" hm a great solution yes

young latch Apr 10, 2022, 3:37 PM

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strange falcon "I can do keys with friends so the problem doesnt exist" hm a great solution yes

well when the problem is a social problem that's the literal answer idk what to say lol

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randos will always make up stupid reasons not to invite ppl

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 3:53 PM

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young latch ye but keys are 4 people and i can wrangle up 4 friends very easily

and I can't

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because my 2 friends that play WoW live in australia and the US

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I play on US servers despite being in UK

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I've tried guilding up before but usually just get stuck on heroic even though i want to go further

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and can

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as all the guilds I've been in this xpac I've been top 4 dps, and genuinely enjoyed my time. But the guilds were invariably a bit shit lol

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and I feel bad just gquitting

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also pugs are a mess

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idk

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I'm ranting

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:00 PM

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young latch ye but keys are 4 people and i can wrangle up 4 friends very easily

Presumptuous that you think everyone has 4 friends that actively play woe and enjoy M+

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That's a lot more boxes to tick

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:01 PM

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Solo q would be nice for keys

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But I dont want Blizz trying to correct a social issue

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:02 PM

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Group finder exists but I kind of get your point

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like a sort of blind shuffle thing

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instead of being subservient to the whims of the group creator

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just a thing you queue into and it puts you with others above a certain ilvl and selects a key from one of you

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:02 PM

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Yeah.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:02 PM

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or something

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:03 PM

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And a dodge penalty to anyone who leaves the key

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:03 PM

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tbh a pause timer on keys would be interesting

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like legit just pauses everything, nobody can do anything but timer doesn't go down

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let people go and get their gamer fuel between bosses without wasting key time

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:04 PM

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subtle oar Solo q would be nice for keys

Would be nice

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Blizzard games need better moderation IMHO

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It's one of their shittiest areas

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:05 PM

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I mean

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:05 PM

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This isn't a moderation issue

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:05 PM

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I disagree in terms of "moderation"

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but like, if somebody leaves a M+ mid key

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and there's no punishment

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even if it's like a warning next to their name for the next group they apply to

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:05 PM

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subtle oar This isn't a moderation issue

No true.
But I would like punishments for people to abandon keys, especially with all the downsides they have

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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"condemned to get anima"

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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cunning fossil No true. But I would like punishments for people to abandon keys, especially wit...

Yes, thats just not a Moderation issue. Its a feature oversight.

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Yeah true true

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Something that needs to be corrected

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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true

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true true

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big true

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Moderation thing I brought up was because I kinda mind wandered

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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x3

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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I still believe it but thos convo isn't for it lol

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Wai the Mind Wanderer

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Yes

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Trying to get a diagnosis for thst

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Eventually

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:07 PM

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diagnosis: WoW writer

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I kid

subtle oar Apr 10, 2022, 4:08 PM

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There needs to be a penalty for someone who leaves a key before its done and the key should not be depleted/degrade in lvl

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You should just be able to redo the key at its current lvl

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 4:09 PM

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it would get abused

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unless the punishment itself went against blizzards own punishment standards

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which would then be a problem in itself

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 6:44 PM

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I'm placing a bet on draconic murlocs being a thing

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 6:47 PM

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Lmao

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 6:49 PM

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cunning fossil Lmao

funnily enough the murlocs in BfA hinted at shadowlands I think

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in 8.2 the murlocs that were also hostile to azshara used necromancy and death magic, and had a bunch of magic that looked maldraxxi in nature

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the necrofins

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they summoned things like this

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and the rare mob in that cave even has a spell that is in a nathria trinket

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https://www.wowhead.com/npc=152712/blindlight#abilities

Wowhead

Blindlight

Blindlight is a level 50 Rare NPC that can be found in Nazjatar. This NPC is the objective of Bounty: A Few Murlocs and Bounty: More Murlocs.

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#

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it's a really odd connection I've not heard people talk about

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was the primus using murlocs as scouts considering that I imagine he perceives azshara to be somebody to keep tabs on?

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considering azshara's off on a cosmic journey for whatever now

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🤷‍♂️

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 7:00 PM

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To be fair, icons are reused constantly so like

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That's not too much weight

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The necro color is pretty interesting though.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:00 PM

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the abilities have the same name and effect

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lmao

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 7:00 PM

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I doubt Primus used Murlocs or anything though haha

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 7:01 PM

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rain cave the abilities have the same name and effect

Probably coincidental.

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:01 PM

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Shattered psyched is on many mobs.

cunning fossil Apr 10, 2022, 7:01 PM

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What even is the effect for the murkoc's shattered Psyche?

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:01 PM

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cunning fossil What even is the effect for the murkoc's shattered Psyche?

same as the trinket basically

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:02 PM

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plain violet Shattered psyched is on many mobs.

these are from BfA, was that normal?

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:02 PM

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Because it's an effect of the debuff being used on the mobs. The database "include" by error the spell.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:02 PM

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ah

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I see

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:03 PM

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Yeah, they don't use, but many mobs are listed with on the database because of the bug.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:03 PM

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good observation then

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wait

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HOL UP

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"It is said that the Primus sought out an ally who could show him the infinite timeways"

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void and infinite dragonflight

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what if the necrofins are basically the remnants of when the primus was looking into the infinite truths using the void through nzoth or somesuch

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not sure how to lay it out the best but

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wew

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:26 PM

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Don't know, but it is sure this idea of an ally with the infinite timeways thing is really suspicious, being titanic or draconic.

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More, we do have a infinite dragon who was in relations with some first ones artefacts...

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:37 PM

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plain violet Don't know, but it is sure this idea of an ally with the infinite timeways thing...

infinite are linked with the void somehow we know for sure, not sure of the titanic connection

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since titans aren't about infinite timeways and truths as far as we know

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I feel like they could do a reveal to show that the time magic we've seen is more connected to the light than we've priorly thought

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considering that amanthul isn't the head of magic, he's the head of time. Another titan is in charge of magic.

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:40 PM

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Yeah but we do have a titans that was tied actually to the time, and his eye (Aman'thul) was used by Elisande for consulting the timeways...

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:40 PM

#

so that implies that "time" is something else

#

aman'thul is about a single timeline though, if we're going by his empowering of the bronze

#

not infinite timelines

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:40 PM

#

And he's also one of the reasons behind the infinite dragonflight, beside the void. THe "Aman'thul, you don't know what I have seen"

#

Yeah, but Elisande have showed that they can still see multiple timelines trough this power.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:41 PM

#

unless the primus was briefed in the same way the bronze were

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:41 PM

#

Maybe, or he messed a bit...

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:41 PM

#

I definetly learn more towards him going with the more underhanded black market option though

#

since the primus definitely lines up with the forbidden knowledge idea

#

at least to me

#

but it's mainly the wording

#

the fact they explicitly used "infinite"

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 7:43 PM

#

It's possible yes! The wording was too particular to my eyes.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 7:45 PM

#

I'm curious as to the timeline of when the primus was captured

#

do we know exactly when it happened?

#

was it after the drought, or before. Because everyone talks about it as he'd been gone for ages

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 8:00 PM

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At the time of the drought, if we trust Maldraxxus questline.

#

But well, for them, the drought was here for really a loooong time.

rain cave Apr 10, 2022, 8:05 PM

#

hm

#

worth noting that the last time we saw the infinite before shadowlands was in legion, where they defend Elisande in her fight

#

considering the similarity between the nightwell and the stream of souls as well

#

and timecapn hooktail could have been using the guise of a pirate to try look for the dragon isles?

#

I'm just saying these as they come

#

so feel free to point out holes

plain violet Apr 10, 2022, 9:20 PM

#

I also feel like timecap was a joke and a reference for something. Even the fact that she is a infinite one, in this period of time...

mossy meteor Apr 11, 2022, 1:36 AM

#

Did we see infinite dragonflight in the elisande fight?

#

I did that way too many times to get to guldan but never recall seeing dragons

cosmic beacon Apr 11, 2022, 2:21 AM

#

just imagine dragons instead

glass flicker Apr 11, 2022, 2:28 AM

#

Radioactive, radioactive.

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 2:29 AM

#

mossy meteor Did we see infinite dragonflight in the elisande fight?

perhaps it's just the mythic fight

#

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Infinite_dragonflight

Wowpedia

Infinite dragonflight

The infinite dragonflight (or simply the Infinites) is a dragonflight formed from corrupted members of the bronze dragonflight. Their only goal is seemingly to destroy the one true timeway and to help the Old Gods bring about the Hour of Twilight. Their reasons for doing so are not entirely clear, but it is hinted at that it is to stop an even w...

#

says on the infinites wiki page

#

oh interesting though

#

apparently the mobs are actually infinite's who've betrayed the infinite dragonflight

#

or something

#

I'm confused lol

sonic flame Apr 11, 2022, 3:13 PM

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Honest answers please

#

Do you think that if one person likes the lore of the last 2 expansions

#

then they are stupid?

glass flicker Apr 11, 2022, 3:22 PM

#

No. They have their own opinions. But it depends on what they see as good storytelling.

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 3:23 PM

#

I like the lore of the last 2 expacs, just not the storytelling

#

and that's a macro scale opinion ofc, there are bits that are bad. Bits that are better.

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 3:23 PM

#

What a weird question

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 3:24 PM

#

I get the feeling he's having a 'discussion' in another server

plain violet Apr 11, 2022, 3:25 PM

#

You are not stupid if you like an expansion. But it is stupid to think someone is because he like an expansion.

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 3:26 PM

#

Personally i think it's been fine, under the circumstances

#

Hasn't been ideal but it's not like they tried to make a bad story

#

I think the jailer story's potential was squandered, and i expect them to sweep past it and focus on the next thing

#

But the story was complex enough to warrant discussion

#

And you're kind of trolling if you think any previous expansions had masterful storytelling

subtle oar Apr 11, 2022, 3:32 PM

#

sonic flame then they are stupid?

Definitely not stupid, but Definitely misguided; entitled to their own opinion tho

sonic flame Apr 11, 2022, 3:33 PM

#

rain cave I get the feeling he's having a 'discussion' in another server

no

#

I'm thinking between myself

#

Because I do like the lore a lot, independently from the xpac, and I don't think the latest ones are bad

#

But at the same time I'm no lore expert so it might be that on a macro scale everything is fine but it's in the micro scale ( the stuff I don't know ) that make it bad

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 3:36 PM

#

Why phrase such a disingenuous question that way? Just to stir up a reaction?

subtle oar Apr 11, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

On a macro and micro, everything has been fucked to really bad lvls. The destroyed 20 years of lore to involve the Chuckler as the main big bad behind everything. And on a micro scale, all the gods excluding the Titans, are infact robots thus robbing them of all mystery and intrigue. It's absolutely fine if you like the last two xpacs lore. You are completely welcome to and I'm glad you could enjoy it. You will face pushback tho, from those who've followed the lore for years and feel slighted. There is no acceptable hostility about it tho, so if someone calls you stupid, just block and report

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 3:49 PM

#

I've followed the lore for years and I think the broad strokes have been fine

#

just the execution is flawed

#

but like the jailer being behind everything is really just an extension of a previous theory that the dreadlords were behind everything

#

and considering we already knew about things like titanforged 'robots' as you call them, the first ones being set up as a force that's like, beyond the titans but similar. Doesn't really seem out of the picture for me

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 3:50 PM

#

subtle oar On a macro and micro, everything has been fucked to really bad lvls. The destroy...

I do somewhat agree with the sentiment however

#

even if I am talking contrary

strange falcon Apr 11, 2022, 3:56 PM

#

rain cave just the execution is flawed

im gonna say someone's stupid if they think that putting out a book with 80% of the story that should have been in the game, 2years after the game came out, is "great storytelling".
you're fine with liking the expac's story outside of this fringe case

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 4:07 PM

#

strange falcon im gonna say someone's stupid if they think that putting out a book with 80% of ...

well yeah, I think the storyTELLING is bad

#

like I wish I could just play the game and experience the story as it's intended

#

but when you write down the happenings of the lore in a single place

#

I can get behind most of the elements shown therein

plain violet Apr 11, 2022, 5:02 PM

#

Agree on that part. It's the telling in general, not the story in itself.

#

I would not find the current lore of WoW superior or inferior of others games lore.

sonic flame Apr 11, 2022, 5:31 PM

#

do you think that they will do cata+ classic ?

#

the fact they are making some changes on classic relauch and prolly to tbc and wotlk makes me thing that it could be possible

#

because altough the first 3 were the most liked xpacs

#

they could release the other ones with changes to the systems that were known to be toxic to the game

#

quick example

#

they might eventually release bfa but make so you don't have to grind azerite on every character

#

or sl and make so you can change covenant from day 1

#

maybe I'm looking too far into the future for that tho

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 5:51 PM

#

sonic flame do you think that they will do cata+ classic ?

if cata classic exists MoP classic will probably exist, if they then go even further into WoD they'll probably do classic+ stuff then

#

and make WoD the expansion that people wanted it to be

#

but that's like

#

a stretch on a stretch

#

that gets less likely every step

#

doing the first 3 expansions then switching to a classic+ mentality would be the more business oriented view, as well as probably getting more interest for being experimental in a way

#

same as things like runescapes classic I think

#

alternatively I could see the mobile game being a form of classic+, since classics gameplay was so simplistic and the graphics low, they could easily make some kind of a classic experience for mobile

strange falcon Apr 11, 2022, 5:54 PM

#

sonic flame the fact they are making _some_ changes on classic relauch and prolly to tbc and...

tbh for most people classic is just a nostalgia fix and not a game they play all the time,
i say most because the 30k active characters on tbc classic are the exception to the norm, but then again i dont like logging in just to raidlog then logging out for the rest of the week so, more power to them i guess.

classic released "no changes" yes, because of backlash because (justifiedly) no one trusts blizzard to not fuck it up retroactively, and i believe this was not much before/after WC3 Refunded, and while yes they did some admittedly good changes when they did, their good old "we dont really give a shit about bots,and if we do its way too little to even make a dent" policy, surely didn't garner simpathy from the playerbase.

and when the hypewave had ended, they had the best idea ever, to fill Bobby "Gallywix" Kotick's coffers, a store mount and a boost!
making it a retail mount as well was a really devious move, because now ATT addicts and mount collectors will fish out 40bucks because "dude it's +1 🥺 " even though they never had any intention of playing tbc ever, which also led to the great "/spit" movement where people /spit on anyone that had the storemount, and as a result, blizzard removed /spit from being able to target players(this is tangentially related to the Great Fruitbowl Transformation).

guess what, the boost only made the botting problem worse, as now bots had free lvl 58 characters without the hassle of releveling after being banned, how great.

going back to your original point
i really really really like so much doubt i'd eat my own hat in full if they did so,
if they made any massive changes to bfa(or similar), like removing azerite grind entirely.
because they want classic to be "super low effort, big money gain" kind of system.
so they won't make big changes unless they can't get away with it.

#

you're welcome for the history lesson on the house.

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 5:55 PM

#

I was interested in classic, but never really played it

#

because whilst I long for some of that more classic design

#

classic is a solved game

#

there's nothing fresh

#

we already know what builds will be good

#

what's next

#

etc

#

so classes in classic are more like choosing a character in a fighting game/moba than picking a class in an rpg

sonic flame Apr 11, 2022, 6:02 PM

#

I am very interested in playing old versions of the game, but not classic

#

literally everything but not classic

subtle oar Apr 11, 2022, 6:19 PM

#

strange falcon tbh for most people classic is just a nostalgia fix and not a game they play all...

It's more than 30k. On the the two most populated tbc realms, it 20k players each. That's excluding all other realms.

strange falcon Apr 11, 2022, 6:20 PM

#

Could have been old info, the sites themselves arent 100% accurate in gauging just how many players are playing since it isnt a public metric

subtle oar Apr 11, 2022, 6:21 PM

#

True, tho you'd have a hard time convincing me that TBC has less than 100k players

strange falcon Apr 11, 2022, 6:21 PM

#

I dont have any interest in convincing you either

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 6:26 PM

#

on the desk for that leaked dragonflight image apparently there's a book by Seneca, or atleast that name's on the table I heard

#

if it's true that this is blizz teasing intentionally or whatever

#

the Seneca being a stoic philosopher which is all about accepting mortality and being equal with others. Being in tune with the natural order of things.

#

that sounds relevant to a dragonflight expansion

#

especially the accepting mortality part

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

Kristen Hines with teh DUb

subtle oar Apr 11, 2022, 8:42 PM

#

cunning fossil Kristen Hines with teh DUb

Hmm?

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 8:47 PM

#

subtle oar Hmm?

Kristen Hines is the new chief DEI officer at Blizz

subtle oar Apr 11, 2022, 8:58 PM

#

Oh boy

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:02 PM

#

is that news?

#

like it certainly is since it's going to impact blizzard overall, but

#

is it that big a deal or am I missing something

#

since I've never heard of her before

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:07 PM

#

rain cave is it that big a deal or am I missing something

It's a big deal for me at least since She's POC and will help Blizzard get their shit straight and their staff have more leverage.

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:07 PM

#

I mean

#

judging people by skin colour isn't really hot shit imo

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

uh

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

what kind of work has she done

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

W-Who said that?

upper pasture Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

oh boy here we go

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

you?

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

I said I'm happy because she is POC

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

I asked what's so good about her being hired and you pointed out her race

#

which is a bit wew

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

I think you're missing something

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

like what's her track record, where has she worked

#

what kind of stuff has she done

#

that's what I'm more interested in

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

I'm saying I'm happy because she is POC and is qualified to do this job. I believe I saw her in an PRe-Internship discussion setting for ABK wina few months

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

not sure what ABK is

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

Activision Blizzard King

upper pasture Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

lol

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

what's that

upper pasture Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

literally blizzard

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

Lol

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

is king one of the other studios?

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

yes

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:10 PM

#

wew

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:11 PM

#

But yeah. I was saying I'm happy because it's a nother POC appointed to a pretty important position. It'll help reduce the stigma of POC being unable to attain high rankings and such.

#

It's just pretty good. At least at face value

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:12 PM

#

I mean

#

I never noticed that stigma

#

so I'm either blind or just not experienced it

#

I'm looking at her work

#

apparently she's done a lot of work for banks

#

and she has a political science degree

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:13 PM

#

rain cave so I'm either blind or just not experienced it

It's likely both if you aren't "White passing"

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:14 PM

#

hopefully that doesn't mean she's both extremely political and greedy, and means she's just culturally aware and technical

#

that's what I'm hoping for

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:14 PM

#

cunning fossil It's likely both if you aren't "White passing"

what

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:14 PM

#

I'm not saying this as an insult

#

I'm being genuine

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

saying what

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

kinda funny that the first thing you do when you see a POC being hired is put all kinds of extra barriers to her qualifications and also apply a lot of unfounded boogeyman personality traits

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

That's how it works. YOu don't experience it when you aren't apart of it

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

rough tundra kinda funny that the first thing you do when you see a POC being hired is put al...

ALso this.

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

rough tundra kinda funny that the first thing you do when you see a POC being hired is put al...

but I didn't

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

you did though

#

you typed it in english

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

I asked why her being hired is important because somebody brought it up

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

and i can read english

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

and then went to look at her qualifications

#

to see if it is indeed something important

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

and i guarantee if it was a white guy you would not have said "BUT WHAT ARE HIS QUALIFICATIONS"

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

same as how if they hired a new narrative director

#

i'd go and look at what they were working on

#

also the main reason I asked is because somebody brought it up, and made note of the race.

#

which brought that angle to the conversation

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

rain cave saying what

Saying That's how it works. YOu don't experience it when you aren't apart of it. IT's just a different experience being POC

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

which was only noteable because of the thing she was hired for

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

especially in office positions

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

I get there are a couple of racist people around still, probably a bit more in rural america

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

a couple

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

but it's not a major issue imo

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

pffft

#

lol ok dude

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

rain cave I get there are a couple of racist people around still, probably a bit more in r...

Look at the wowhead tweet comments. It ain't a couple is all I'msaying

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

it's significantly more than a couple

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

mate we're in the modern age the idiots who are actually racist are the ones who get put down socially

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

do you know like 4 people

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

there's also only 1 wowhead comment

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

"there aren't many racists" is the most wrong thing i'm gonna read this year i think

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

I'm just saying it's not as overblown a problem as people make it out to be

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

but it is

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

how so

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

"but i just don't see it"

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

rain cave there's also only 1 wowhead comment

wowhead TWEET comments

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

ah ok

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

i'm specific heh

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

kinda hard to see racism when it doesn't affect you, i guess

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

lived in china for 8 years 🙂

#

obv not a bad experience overall but like

#

I know firsthand the being treated differently because of race thing

#

it wasn't a negative one so i can't speak on that

#

and I can't claim to know the experiences of others

#

I'm not trying to downplay the actual issues that have happened

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:20 PM

#

but you are claiing that it's not a big deal

#

without knowing about other's experiences

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:20 PM

#

to me, race is not a big deal

#

that is what I am saying

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:20 PM

#

to you

#

no, you were saying that it's no a problem at all for anyone

#

because there's only like, two racist people in the world

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:21 PM

#

I said that the problems of racism are not as widespread as people say they were

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:21 PM

#

but they are

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:21 PM

#

how so then

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:21 PM

#

and you yourself admitted that you don't see it

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:22 PM

#

so, my experience of not seeing racism as a widescale societal issue is evidence AGAINST that?

#

the fact that we're seeing a black woman getting hired in a top position is evidence against that?

#

cmon guys

upper pasture Apr 11, 2022, 9:22 PM

#

this is weird

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:22 PM

#

it is

#

I can empathise with seeing somebody you connect to in a position, I'm not that blind

#

and there is also racial - cultural connections as well

#

as a trend

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:23 PM

#

mkay i'm just gonna leave this alone

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:23 PM

#

so I can understand being happy to see somebody you can connect with in a position, especially if you feel it's underrepresented

#

however we shouldn't celebrate it FOR that

#

you feel

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:24 PM

#

rough tundra mkay i'm just gonna leave this alone

Fair enough if the topic is making you uncomfortable, hope my words have shed some light

#

godspeed

rough tundra Apr 11, 2022, 9:24 PM

#

no

#

it's not making me uncomfortable

#

it's infuriatingly dense

#

and i dont' want it to be a 2 hour discussion

#

so uh, imma bounce

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 9:25 PM

#

well yeah this isn't really a place for a dense topic like that anyways

#

so I can understand not wanting to talk about it

#

I do wish kristen the best in her position, and hope that she is a positive impact on the company

#

and from reading the wowhead twitter comments ( @cunning fossil ) I can see she does have an uphill battle to prove herself to some of the community

#

so I wish her well on that as well

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 10:09 PM

#

yes

#

I mean

cunning fossil Apr 11, 2022, 10:10 PM

#

rain cave and from reading the wowhead twitter comments ( <@247758224441344010> ) I can se...

I expect it from a game in which the N Word and F word were common diction in the early days

#

NOt at you. I'm just being real

rain cave Apr 11, 2022, 10:19 PM

#

I get it

#

these things don't meant much to me

#

but they mean it to others

#

so as long as it's not harmful I've not reason to complain

#

same as anything

nocturne totem Apr 12, 2022, 1:14 AM

#

rain cave and from reading the wowhead twitter comments ( <@247758224441344010> ) I can se...

I don't really think she has to prove herself to a video game community.

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 1:18 AM

#

nocturne totem I don't really think she has to prove herself to a video game community.

I mean, she obviously don't HAVE to, she already has the job.

#

but obviously some people are having gripes with her hiring, even if they aren't good ones.

#

but not all of the gripes are entirely unfounded even if I don't agree with them.

#

also I can't tell if you're kind of saying video game community in a condescending way

#

but to me a community is a community

#

regardless of medium or circumstance

nocturne totem Apr 12, 2022, 1:20 AM

#

Her only responsibility in this respect is to fulfill her job

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 1:20 AM

#

well yeah, that's what she's been hired for

#

and that's what I'm saying she will have to prove herself in

#

her job

#

as with anyone

nocturne totem Apr 12, 2022, 1:21 AM

#

I don't think the community's view of her matters at all

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 1:21 AM

#

it's just that some attention has been drawn to this for both good and bad reasons

#

in that case her job is pointless and doesn't matter either way 🤷‍♂️

#

I'd like to think she matters, and also I'd like to think that she will do a good job

#

and I don't want people to construct a narrative around her just because of race, in either direction.

#

let her do the job, we shall see how good it is.

nocturne totem Apr 12, 2022, 1:23 AM

#

rain cave in that case her job is pointless and doesn't matter either way 🤷‍♂️

Why is that?

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 1:23 AM

#

nocturne totem Why is that?

going off your logic

#

not mine

nocturne totem Apr 12, 2022, 1:23 AM

#

Why is that?

#

I don't see your connection

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 1:24 AM

#

since you said that the communities opinion doesn't matter at all in respect to her

#

which then implies that she doesn't have any impact on WoW

#

or things in general

nocturne totem Apr 12, 2022, 1:24 AM

#

Her role is to help the company get better

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 1:24 AM

#

yeah

#

so the opinion of her matters

subtle oar Apr 12, 2022, 2:21 AM

#

nocturne totem Her role is to help the company get better

Eh, agree wit disagree.

cunning fossil Apr 12, 2022, 2:24 AM

#

Out of curiosity

#

How won't it?

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 2:44 AM

#

cunning fossil Out of curiosity

U talking to exalt?

cunning fossil Apr 12, 2022, 3:56 AM

#

No Wynter

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:07 AM

#

cunning fossil But yeah. I was saying I'm happy because it's a nother POC appointed to a pretty...

could just be a performative activism position, just like how the co-director(or whatever was the name) for blizzard together with ybarra, was performative, and no wonder she bailed as soon as she found out

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:08 AM

#

rough tundra and i guarantee if it was a white guy you would not have said "BUT WHAT ARE HIS ...

nah i'd ask this of anyone hired to a company with a bad track record like blizzard, aka EA,Ubisoft etc

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:09 AM

#

cunning fossil wowhead TWEET comments

imagine using twitter 👀

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:09 AM

#

rain cave lived in china for 8 years 🙂

chinese spy confirmed? 👀

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:10 AM

#

rough tundra it's infuriatingly dense

dont worry that's just a character trait of his

ember blaze Apr 12, 2022, 6:40 AM

#

strange falcon could just be a performative activism position, just like how the co-director(or...

That was so insulting I’m surprised of their actions with all the spotlight on them.

#

Being used as a token and being denied equal pay even with Ybarra asking for the same 🤔

#

And she had worked at blizzard for a while too no?

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:42 AM

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i appreciate your profile pic

ember blaze Apr 12, 2022, 6:42 AM

#

:)

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 6:42 AM

#

ember blaze And she had worked at blizzard for a while too no?

she was the head of "toys for bob" which was the devteam in charge of the crash bandicoot remakes
then bought out by activision, then put to work as fodder for call of duty

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 11:08 AM

#

strange falcon dont worry that's just a character trait of his

Are you calling me dense lmao

#

Why

strange falcon Apr 12, 2022, 11:08 AM

#

you've shown to be so on some select topics, not all the time

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 11:11 AM

#

strange falcon you've shown to be so on some select topics, not all the time

I'm curious as to what those are

#

Since I try to be as open as I can

#

And reasonable

rain cave Apr 12, 2022, 8:10 PM

#

aside from most likely getting a bunch of new dragon models already, I wonder if we'll see like, dragons with aspects of races. Like a dragon with a troll form still having tusks in his dragon form (as seen in hearthstone)

#

it's a largely unimportant thing, but it would be cool to see

#

I guess

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 4:20 AM

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did they really push a build after midnight?

#

servers are down

tulip sun Apr 13, 2022, 3:03 PM

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deep pawn servers are down

Still down or?

rough tundra Apr 13, 2022, 3:07 PM

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I would hope not that was 10 hours ago

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 3:08 PM

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Been down since 9pm PDT

#

there's likely a build some time today

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 4:21 PM

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they're busy putting the rest of the dragonflights underwear textures on there for the dataminers

cunning fossil Apr 13, 2022, 5:31 PM

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Nice

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 5:45 PM

#

https://i.imgur.com/JvXjOgI.jpg

Imgur

#

You know what, I'm totally down for Garrosh's Escape story, give us War Crimes content

strange falcon Apr 13, 2022, 5:47 PM

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Didnt...they already give alliance high elves, you know...customization options???, blue eyes, blond hair for void elves? Thats the entire reason they shut up?

#

And ogres have been planned as a playable race for vanilla,cata and wod (in the devs own words) "they couldn't figure out a female model"

Put more effort into those leaks, mmochampion, wheres the borrowed power? Cmon

tropic trail Apr 13, 2022, 5:54 PM

#

deep pawn You know what, I'm totally down for Garrosh's Escape story, give us War Crimes c...

I hated Garrosh originally, but what they did to sylvanas has caused me to warm up to him.

Just from this line alone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ps7FJ6et_U

YouTube

DeadlyXaero

Watch Your Clever Mouth, Bitch.

You better watch it, Sylvanas.

▶ Play video

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 6:25 PM

#

Garrosh would be fine if he was consistently written in cata

#

Stonetalon is partially unofficial these days. They blame it on writers not talking together enough

#

And yeah, high elves are basically in game for horde and alliance

#

Unless they are specifically silverwing elves who are only warrior, priest, hunter, rogue, and mage.

upper pasture Apr 13, 2022, 6:31 PM

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100 character slots, sign me up I’m almost at 50 now haha

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 6:31 PM

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I've been capped for a while

#

If you have one of each class on each faction that's already half your slots

young latch Apr 13, 2022, 6:31 PM

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deep pawn https://i.imgur.com/JvXjOgI.jpg

they would not give another fuckin' high elf race after void elves this is bullshit lmao

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 6:32 PM

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I generally can't justify buying race changes nor do I like to delete old chars

#

I refuse to delete my orc dk from wrath even if I'm playing vulpera now

#

Now, if people have seen a new elf model in a test character creation, I bet it's drakonid with adjusted reused demon hunter stuff

#

They already have horns, claws, and scales.

#

Just take away the illidan horns, make the scales colorable, bam.

#

Humanoid drakonid forms.

plain violet Apr 13, 2022, 6:44 PM

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That would be cute...

#

I am really eager to see the expansion reveal.

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 6:48 PM

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If drakonids are two forms, let us swap at will in combat unlike worgen

#

If I wanna do a dungeon as horny scaly elf, let me. If I wanna be a beefy bipedal dragon thing, let me.

ancient jasper Apr 13, 2022, 6:53 PM

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I'd worry a Dragon form would be to large and obscure mechanics

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 6:59 PM

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Wouldn't need to be any larger than tauren or kul Tiran males

#

Tauren are already smaller than they are truly

plain violet Apr 13, 2022, 7:02 PM

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Yeah, and they even are way smaller ingame than they are truly, because of buildings and such. So at most, it would take the same scale.

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 7:36 PM

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can't wait to see what the dragonkin worgen roleplayers cook up

#

happy

languid yoke Apr 13, 2022, 7:42 PM

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buff dragonmen yes tippiBless

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 7:43 PM

#

profile pic and name checks out

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 7:50 PM

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languid yoke buff dragonmen yes <:tippiBless:929824600790040718>

and women please. Use a more trim version of KT females if you have to

languid yoke Apr 13, 2022, 7:51 PM

#

yeah don't give us female "worgen" 2.0. Go the Charr way and do a bestial race right

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 7:53 PM

#

I'd say that worgen females are fine since the update, they look fine to me

#

worgen in general are way better than they were

languid yoke Apr 13, 2022, 7:54 PM

#

they still look like a completely different race

#

same with tauren

strange falcon Apr 13, 2022, 7:54 PM

#

New lawsuit news btw,
Expac reveal in 6 days, and they find yet more ways to remind us that they haven't changed one bit.

Trying to bully the legal arm of the state of california into dropping the lawsuit by asking the governor to do the dirty work for them is so beautifully corporate.

I am impressed,almost.

I forgot if we could talk lawsuit stuff in here or im gonna get slapped by mods

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 7:54 PM

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languid yoke they still look like a completely different race

in what way

#

compared to what

languid yoke Apr 13, 2022, 7:55 PM

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compared to each other? just overly extreme dimorphism

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 7:55 PM

#

strange falcon New lawsuit news btw, Expac reveal in 6 days, and they find yet more ways to rem...

also I'd say it's ok since wowhead themselves report on it

#

disallowing it despite them talking about it would be a bit hypocritical, unless they have another reason/chatroom for it more specifically

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 7:56 PM

#

languid yoke compared to each other? just overly extreme dimorphism

I mean I'm fine with dimorphism

#

I do understand wanting something more equal though

#

vulpera and gnomes fulfill that niche I think though

subtle oar Apr 13, 2022, 8:39 PM

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languid yoke yeah don't give us female "worgen" 2.0. Go the Charr way and do a bestial race r...

Uh, female worgen are perfect. grump

sonic flame Apr 13, 2022, 9:40 PM

#

any idea when ptr will come back online?

sonic flame Apr 13, 2022, 9:42 PM

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deep pawn https://i.imgur.com/JvXjOgI.jpg

I don't think they'll ever increase the character slots

#

it would be beneficial to no one

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 9:43 PM

#

it'd make people who love variety happy

#

plus they keep adding new races

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 9:46 PM

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sonic flame I don't think they'll ever increase the character slots

more classes, cross faction play, more races, these are all incentives for more characters

#

if you're talking about total characters accross realms sure the cap is already probs high enough

#

but per server, I could see it

upper pasture Apr 13, 2022, 9:48 PM

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Remember when the cap was 10 on a realm? Yeah there’s no way they would increase that

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 9:49 PM

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cap per server is already unlimited up to the 50 account cap

#

I know there's not many of us at the 50 cap, but it surely couldn't hurt.

#

Merge some servers if you wanted to stop people from watching too many markets

upper pasture Apr 13, 2022, 9:51 PM

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Yeah, there is no cap that I’m aware of outside the 50 per account which in a 18 year old game is pretty low so I’m hopeful they will increase it

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 9:57 PM

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granted most games have a hard cap one one char per server unless you buy more

ancient jasper Apr 13, 2022, 10:10 PM

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Hm.. Servers are still down. Wonder what's going on

subtle oar Apr 13, 2022, 10:21 PM

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upper pasture Yeah, there is no cap that I’m aware of outside the 50 per account which in a 18...

I think you mean high. There's no need for character cap to be increased past 50

languid yoke Apr 13, 2022, 10:26 PM

#

maybe we're getting an actual ptr build again

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 10:32 PM

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hopefully huge after they took last week off, but it's also a holiday weekend starting Friday

dense plover Apr 13, 2022, 11:26 PM

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I mean it’s a .x.5 patch, they’re never huge

cunning fossil Apr 13, 2022, 11:27 PM

#

A .5 patch with like

#

2 enormous features

#

Cross faction play as well as the Season 4

dense plover Apr 13, 2022, 11:27 PM

#

Also, people thinking they’ll squish back to 50 are crazy, that means making a ton of changes when they clearly want to orient people by forcing them through BfA then SLs to current content. If you drop people straight into SLs at 10, you are going to make the story even more confusing

languid yoke Apr 13, 2022, 11:28 PM

#

can't believe we're not getting a brawler's guild though tippiHands

dense plover Apr 13, 2022, 11:28 PM

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cunning fossil Cross faction play as well as the Season 4

Cross faction is equivalent to how we got allied races in 7.3.5

#

It’s so they can test the shit out of them on live

#

And the pvp season is so they can test it with pvp active

dense plover Apr 13, 2022, 11:29 PM

#

languid yoke can't believe we're not getting a brawler's guild though <:tippiHands:9298246329...

I think the amount of work that goes into the feature but the amount of people using it doesn’t match up with the amount of work it requires and so it got sidelined like Archaeology. I think it will make a return if they can figure out how to make more players interested in it

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 11:31 PM

#

dense plover Also, people thinking they’ll squish back to 50 are crazy, that means making a t...

I don't think anyone's said squish back to 50

#

they've just said no level cap increase

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 11:34 PM

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I meant huge build. 😄

#

How is the start of BfA any more less random to start than SL?

dense plover Apr 13, 2022, 11:35 PM

#

Start of BfA is third war

#

Shadowlands is after that and while what happens in BfA is a mess it barely relies on what happened in legion except the sword

#

Realistically, they should require legion as well but then you gotta know where guldan comes from

#

It’s messy

#

BfA is the cleanest starting point they can have for a single expac you level through

#

Shifting that to SLs would be confusing because there would be no significance to any of the major NPCs from Azeroth

#

BfA introduces and defines all of those NPCs

rain cave Apr 13, 2022, 11:38 PM

#

I mean their purpose so far has been not requiring you to do any of the previous expansions once you're at 50

#

levelling isn't fun

#

so the best they can do is let you pick your poison

#

and so far @dense plover even from what we've seen this is the largest final .5 patch we've had

#

7.3.5 had some of the allied races sure, but they were also all the ones that were already all in the game basically

#

and those races were being marketed as bfa additions

#

whereas 9.2.5 is its own thing so far, and even before the expansion announcement has some of the most experimental and impactful systems we've seen

ancient jasper Apr 13, 2022, 11:49 PM

#

I'm hoping the Cross Faction we get in 9.2.5 is just a prelude and they do, at the very least, add Cross Faction Guilding. Not being able to get Achievements or use things like the Guild Repair while Raiding cross faction is gonna suck

subtle oar Apr 13, 2022, 11:55 PM

#

dense plover Also, people thinking they’ll squish back to 50 are crazy, that means making a t...

I haven't heard anyone claim this.

upper pasture Apr 13, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

Tbf, I’ve said multiple times I think we will get a squish back to 50 the only thing making me not think that would have been the heirloom upgrade we got in 9.1.5.

subtle oar Apr 13, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

dense plover I think the amount of work that goes into the feature but the amount of people u...

Thats not how content should be made. That is currently why a lot of content fails because Blizz constantly tries to force people to do content instead of just making content and letting whoever wants to play it, play it

deep pawn Apr 13, 2022, 11:58 PM

#

The way each expansion builds on the previous there'll never be a good intro to whatever they're doing

#

they supposedly want new players to know the most recent story though

dense plover Apr 14, 2022, 12:02 AM

#

They decided BfA was the point they wanted to build up from

#

They’re not going to change that

#

Even the intro experience alludes to the third war

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:04 AM

#

Idk, with all the cross faction stuff coming is it going to make sense to start new players off on an expansion based on a total faction war?

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:05 AM

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Will be worse to make a character, meet Sylvanas, and not know why the hell she's missing once you hit 60

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:06 AM

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I mean honestly it won’t matter too much on many people. I just had a friend ask “what the hell is a dragon flight” so… lol

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:06 AM

#

dense plover Also, people thinking they’ll squish back to 50 are crazy, that means making a t...

I don't think they'll make so you have to do 10-50 in bfa, 50-60 in shadowlands and 60-70 in new content, I think they'll make chromie time scale to 60 and have people level up in shadowlands from 10 to 60

#

the rule they seemed to go by until now is 10 -> cap-10 in 2nd last xpac, then cap-10 -> cap in new xpac

young latch Apr 14, 2022, 12:08 AM

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Half the story takes place in raids so the story is harder for new players to follow anyway

#

Or events that no longer exist

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:08 AM

#

I think blizz shouldn't be afraid of new players just jumping in mid story

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:08 AM

#

young latch Half the story takes place in raids so the story is harder for new players to fo...

exactly

#

levelling doesn't even show you the story

#

it shows you act 1 of the story

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

I do think that the original plan was to squish everyone again at the end of the expansion but with the way everything has gone in the past 2 years and how poorly the squish was taken the first time. Things changed

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

the squish was poorly received?

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

just construct stories that are good, and if it's good people will be engaged regardless

#

alternatively

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

even as of this moment people jump in in " middle story "

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

dragon expansion?

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

it's not like bfa is the first chapter of wow

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

caverns of time already has a thing for showing you all the major events in the expansions

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:09 AM

#

upper pasture I do think that the original plan was to squish everyone again at the end of the...

The quiesh was poorly recieved?

#

I don't remember that like at all

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:10 AM

#

shadowlands even has a recap of legion and BfA's events in a fucking quest lmao

#

albeit a play

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:10 AM

#

Nearly everyone I know was upset their 120 level character was now 50 and the “I don’t do super high numbers anymore wth”

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:10 AM

#

I didn't care

#

because the numbers end up being around the same relatively

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:10 AM

#

people were pretty happy with the smaller numbers I thought

#

i sa w alot of praise of "Finally, smaller numbers I can care about"

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:10 AM

#

either super big numbers or smaller numbers

young latch Apr 14, 2022, 12:10 AM

#

People liked the squish

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

like legion big numbers were fun but unsustainable

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

I liked the squish a lot

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

I know I liked the squish

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

numbers in millions are hard to understand

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

^^^

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

numbers in SL have been fine

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

ye

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

it's like

#

1.5k dmg is lower end

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

cunning fossil people were pretty happy with the smaller numbers I thought

Nah. People generally love big numbers, its just something about us. Number go up, we get big happy.

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

3k dmg is medium

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

I personally didn’t care about the squish but everyone else I knew was upset by it and logically it makes the game more appealing to new players

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

6k+ is heavy hitting

#

at least at the start base damage values

#

is what I am referring to

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

subtle oar Nah. People generally love big numbers, its just something about us. Number go u...

Not that big though? Like after dealing 4.5 million damage

#

Meh

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

not rn when we're end of xpac with higher ilvl

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

IT sounds ridiculous when that's someone's average DPS

#

At least personally

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

bigger numbers only have meaning if those big numbers are impactful

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

cunning fossil Not that big though? Like after dealing 4.5 million damage

It makes sense is some situations, like facing a literal Titan.

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

I am pretty sure it was a positive thing for the player base though

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

when a casual scorch hits for a couple hundred thousand

#

that's like

#

bruh

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

Its hard to sell you beat a literal God dealing 600dps

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:12 AM

#

I don't remember much "Oh my god no why my 6.5 million will turn into 6.7k"

#

Well yeah I get that but how about the rest of the expac?

#

lol

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:13 AM

#

I think it was more around the squish being accompanied by just general lower relative dps anyway

#

like in legion

#

on my MM hunter I would aimed shot for like 4mil

#

and like 5 things could proc

#

it would bounce

#

marked shots

#

proc

#

etc

#

then the squish hits and we lose all the extra perks even if we do similar dps relatively

#

and keep in mind we're not doing 600 dps

#

it's been a LONG time since numbers were that low

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:14 AM

#

Idk what to tell you other than that was what i experienced. General chat and people were upset about the squish when it happened in my social sphere

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:14 AM

#

usually thins trend to the thousands

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:14 AM

#

upper pasture Idk what to tell you other than that was what i experienced. General chat and pe...

I'm jsut telling you what I experienced.

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:14 AM

#

fair enough

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:14 AM

#

We should probably meet in the middle and say it was a mixed reaction

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

The transition from Legion to BfA felt awful because we legit got weaker. We lost character progression which is core to an RPG. Permanent character progression. When the game makes you feel weaker than when you started, thats a failure. And then the transition from BfA to Slands happened and that felt even worse because of how busted Corruptions were

upper pasture Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

People got big mad when they lost their high character levels and high numbers on charts

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

if they didn't squish post legion

#

shadowlands would be in trillions

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

I legit don't rmemeber who got big mad

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

people had more than 10m hp at the end of legion

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

^^^

#

also this

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 AM

#

subtle oar The transition from Legion to BfA felt awful because we legit got weaker. We los...

this is basically what I said

#

similar anyways

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

i don't wanna do like trillions of damage but I still can't kill a regular mob lol

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

true

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

sonic flame if they didn't squish post legion

The squish isn't what caused the feeling of being weaker, it was literally being robbed of all the things that made us powerful. The Legiondaries and our Artifacts

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

yes, that's true

#

the fact we had to deplete our weapons to save azeroth and shit was just stupid

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:16 AM

#

I miss my corruptions

#

😢

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:17 AM

#

sonic flame the fact we had to deplete our weapons to save azeroth and shit was just stupid

it was the inverse

#

we sucked the poison out

#

and it killed the weapon

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:17 AM

#

You can have a squish as long as you dont literally strip the power from the player.; If you do both, you are just begging to be shit on for robbing the player of character progression

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:17 AM

#

yeah, that V_V

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:18 AM

#

you'll always start an expansion weaker as we lose our borrowed power

#

same will happen in 10.0 squish or not when they turn off tier and we lose covenants

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:18 AM

#

no levelling will help the squish problem

#

since levelling gear will no longer outclass previous max level gear

#

they can just have the new expansion gear be like

#

25 ilvls higher at base

#

or something

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:19 AM

#

The squish is BfA was bad because they also stripped us of the absolutely busted Corruptions. If they had just squished the numbers and left things, we'd have felt much better. I loved the number squish in Bfa to Slands. But they fucked up and again, robbed the player of character progression

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:19 AM

#

there are a lot more reasons why you need to level up in the xpac

#

first of all

#

when an expantion goes bad and his hated by people, the presence of leveling alleviates the problem and makes people keep playing

#

producing an xpac without leveling would be high risk high reward

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:19 AM

#

deep pawn you'll always start an expansion weaker as we lose our borrowed power

This is not the case tho. Prior to BfA, you didnt feel weak going into a new xpac. You always felt like you were getting stronger.

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:19 AM

#

WE WILL NEVER AGAIN CARRY PROGRESS FROM ONE EXPANSION TO ANOTHER

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:19 AM

#

if the endgame is liked, then they can produce the next xpac way faster

#

but if the endgame sucks the game just dies

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:20 AM

#

It's not even a point of asking. Blizzard says they will not add abilities without taking others away now

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:20 AM

#

They did?

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:20 AM

#

When we went from Legion to BfA is when Blizz started to absolutely fail at understanding character progression and the feeling of getting stronger being integral to an RPG

cunning fossil Apr 14, 2022, 12:20 AM

#

I mean what about the abilities they brought back in SL?

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:21 AM

#

hold on tho

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:21 AM

#

Those were almost entirely utility

#

or passives

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:21 AM

#

at this point of the xpac in legion we had already lost our borrowed power

#

did we lose our SL coventants abilities in game?

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:21 AM

#

sonic flame at this point of the xpac in legion we had already lost our borrowed power

No. We still had our power

#

The artifacts didn't actually deplete until pre-patch

#

Until BfA pre-patch, our artifacts were boosted to the max after doing the 7.3.5 Silithus questline

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:22 AM

#

well

#

we technically didn't lose our heart of azeroth in SL

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:23 AM

#

We did

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:23 AM

#

they had the excuse that it doesn't work in the shadowlands

#

in the new xpac we're probably gonna go back to azeroth

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:23 AM

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The HoA can not be used in Slands

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:23 AM

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I want to see what they invent to make so we can't use it

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:24 AM

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sonic flame I want to see what they invent to make so we can't use it

azeroths soul got sucked?

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they might use that to also canonically cut us off from some shadowlands stuff

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but who knows

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:25 AM

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for sure the azerite traits are gonna be disabled

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just like legion legendaries were disabled in SL

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:26 AM

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it's easy enough to make covenants a rump feature like how they did artifacts, you'll be able to see your soulbinds and stuff but not do anything with them outside of the SLs

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We could just go back to having our heart and essences in 10.0

subtle oar Apr 14, 2022, 12:27 AM

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rain cave azeroths soul got sucked?

Incorrect. After we defeat the Jailer, we were told that Azeroths Soul returned to normal

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:27 AM

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lol

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back to farming islands for azerite on every toon

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:27 AM

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jebaited, live patch

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If the heart is a thing I think it'll be new essences

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:27 AM

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oh one thing about the jaile

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:27 AM

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subtle oar Incorrect. After we defeat the Jailer, we were told that Azeroths Soul returned ...

strange

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:27 AM

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at the end of the raid he says that a divided cosmos can't survive blablabla

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do the characters in the game actually listen to that, or it's just us?

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aren't they saying anything about it?

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:28 AM

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125mb Hotfix patch, nice

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:28 AM

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like jaina anduin

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:28 AM

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I mean

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:28 AM

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let's go ptr build

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:28 AM

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to them it's probably just like him saying "I regret nothing"

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alternatively maybe they couldn't understand him through the voice modifiers

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:29 AM

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but he said there's something coming

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okay, so no one has understood it

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:30 AM

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I think canon, Jaina, Uther, Sylvanas, and a bunch of random Maw Walkers killed the Jailer so if anyone says anything it'll be Jaina

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Jaina could tell Kalec what happened and he talks to the other aspects

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:30 AM

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or khadgar

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:30 AM

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@upper pasture Nothing yet, live had a hotfix patch

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 12:30 AM

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unless he already knows

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 12:31 AM

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Khadgar takes a death vacay in 9.2.5

sonic flame Apr 14, 2022, 12:34 AM

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no matter how bad an xpac can go I'm always mega hyped for the new one

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can't wait to see what they have in store

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:17 AM

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thought just popped in to my head of them combining covenants and artifact style things

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or HoA

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since dragons have had a history of legendary items in WoW

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and iconic items in general

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8.3 wrathion gave us the cloak

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legendary daggers, legendary staff from cata

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what about if the system is every class can choose a dragonflight, and we get gifted a unique item from that dragonflight

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be it a legendary/artifact weapon, shoulders, shield, chestpiece

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and that is the vessel thought which we get some benefit

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different for everyone

ancient jasper Apr 14, 2022, 1:19 AM

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How is that any different than Covenants now? People just choose the one that SIms best and not the one they identify most with.

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:19 AM

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because covenants now isn't gear related

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the covenant becomes basically your core character

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whereas this would be more like

ancient jasper Apr 14, 2022, 1:20 AM

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Uh.. Aren't they? You have Covenant Legendaries

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:20 AM

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yeah but that's 1 thing

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and is also only a normal legendary

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I'm thinking like

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if you're a red dragonflight warrior, they give you flaming pauldrons or somesuch

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and those pauldrons have all your 'borrowed power' systems in it

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like artifact trait lines

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with maybe some customization like essences/ soulbinds

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or a rogue might get a dagger

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a hunter a cloak

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and they're not just legendary's in the normal sense

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more like artifacts

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but instead of a unique one for each spec, a unique one for each class/dragonflight combo

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(rogue example could transform between sword/dagger, or just be something else)

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:22 AM

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That’s the same as covenant system

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:22 AM

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not at all

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it's more like bfa's essences and armour combined than anything

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with flavours of legion

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but the choices of covenants

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instead of spec

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:23 AM

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You choose a dragonflight which gives you borrowed power

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That is what you said

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And that is just a covenant system

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:24 AM

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that's the macro view sure

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but I'm not talking about that

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I'm moreso talking about how it would be done

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blue dragonflight DK's get a 2h sword that sucks magic

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whereas say, black dragonflight might get a sick helmet

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and those would be the "artifacts"

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with their own trait lines

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and choices

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sounds cool to me, and scopeable

ancient jasper Apr 14, 2022, 1:25 AM

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The entire problem with that is, like I said earlier, people will choose what sims best and ignore what might fit their Class Fantasy.

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:25 AM

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If your spells are different between dragonflights, and you have a “choice” of which one to take

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That is the covenant system all over again

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Literally

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:25 AM

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I never mentioned spells

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:26 AM

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Sucks magic sounds like a spell, and you said own trait lines

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:26 AM

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ancient jasper The entire problem with that is, like I said earlier, people will choose what si...

the intention is to allow multiple builds by providing more choice

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:26 AM

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harsh wedge Sucks magic sounds like a spell, and you said own trait lines

passive effect

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:26 AM

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Still the same

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:26 AM

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since it would be on a weapon

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like a proc

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or somesuch

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:26 AM

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If people like Pelagos but Mikanikos sims the best, they take Mikanikos

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:27 AM

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that's not a fantasy choice really

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:27 AM

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Passive or not it still is something that people will go for the best one no matter what

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:27 AM

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so tf u want them to do

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less choice?

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 1:27 AM

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Choice is not really a thing in WoW. There's right or wrong

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:27 AM

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choice has always been a thing in a WoW

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:27 AM

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^

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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imo

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faction, race, class, spec, talents

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covenant now

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soulbinds

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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Hasn’t been in sl

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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legendaries

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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At least

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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You barely swap covenants unless you swap specs

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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look at enhance shaman rn, from what I've seen they've been doing well in the builds department

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fire mage in 8.3 too

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multiple builds can coexist

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I want them to aim for it

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:28 AM

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But that is not the norm in wow

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You have the exception where multiple can work, but even then you have one better than the others

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 1:29 AM

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you have builds that are best for specific content.

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:29 AM

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^

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 1:29 AM

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That's great you can customize, but that IS NOT CHOICE

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:29 AM

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Indeed

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:29 AM

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I want more choice

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 1:29 AM

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you just swap to whatever content you're doing

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:30 AM

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like in this system I'm theorizing it would be more build focused

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your artifact helmet means you can't equip another legendary helmet

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that might unlock a certain build

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and you can easily swap things in and out

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:30 AM

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People will still go to the best build for their class

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Even with your system with multiple builds

deep pawn Apr 14, 2022, 1:31 AM

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Just sounds like I'd fill my bags with even more crap

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:31 AM

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so why for the past 2 expacs do they build for choice

harsh wedge Apr 14, 2022, 1:31 AM

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that is the problem

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That is a false choice

rain cave Apr 14, 2022, 1:31 AM

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their whole thing

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is choice