beta-ptr-spoilers

[cosmic beacon]

Imagine not knowing who the one one is

[glass flicker]

I feel like it's made up, and I feel only a little bit silly.

[upper pasture]

COUGH ||emo|| COUGH

[glass flicker]

I'm not cynical, though. @upper pasture

[upper pasture]

Uhhh…no I mean like…you know what nvm lol

[glass flicker]

Emo kinda equals cynical.

Goth equals nihilism.

Me? I'm just a...

https://tenor.com/view/fml-head-bang-why-me-i-hate-it-here-kill-me-now-gif-20478479

A this.

[cosmic beacon]

U rn

[glass flicker]

I just kinda roll with it, y'know?

[hollow skiff]

i saw a some days ago a news about 9.2 when which chapter of the campagne will be available.... but i cant found it now 😦 maybe anyone has a link or know the availability? 🙂

[hollow skiff]

found it 🙂

[scarlet ermine]

are they nerfing shadow priest?

[cunning fossil]

I believe they were adjusted but I think it's an overall buff

[cosmic beacon]

its a nerf to their necro legendary

but still gonna be one of if not the best cov along with fae

[scarlet ermine]

still going to hit hard the legendary?

[cosmic beacon]

still ur best legendary for covenents

but since you end up running shadowflame prism with the set the lego needed to be nerfed

[scarlet ermine]

oh with running two legendaries you can run prism and pallid?

[cosmic beacon]

which would be pretty nuts since both are bis

[scarlet ermine]

that is OP

how do you get second legendary?

[strange falcon]

Wait that 9.2 releases
Then wait 8 more weeks

Do 3hrs of content

Boom you got it

[scarlet ermine]

8 more weeks?

[strange falcon]

2nd legendary is only given after campaign ends

[cosmic beacon]

and you get the memory of unity from the rep

which lets you get ur cov lego on any slot

[strange falcon]

Be grateful to "no fun allowed" blizzard that they put the memory on the rep vendor

And not the lego itself

[scarlet ermine]

why the 8 weeks?

thats how long it will take for the campaign to end?

[strange falcon]

^

Blizzard loves its timegating

Why do you think the game has lost this many players

[cosmic beacon]

doubt they lost players due to timegating more just lack of good content or annoying systems

[strange falcon]

The stupid design decisions is mostly it

Which encompasses a lot

[opaque pewter]

It's indeed mostly the delays. It was never seen as a seasonal game for the masses.

Though I'd say it's a lot to do with player habit change too. There is so much stuff to do now with different client. The social state of the internet (discord,etc,) pretty much made sure nothing like WoW guilds or the barren chat of 10 years ago will ever happen again

[young latch]

so, timegating severely hurt this expansion. I do not mind time gating when reasonable. But timegating it tied to every single activity in this expansion.

And that's not normal.

[opaque pewter]

It's not every activities though. That's extreme talk lol.
For what I did, it's personally of my pace

In the grand scheme, from content difficulty perspective, it's a progressive player power gain without the need to intervene frequently as we did in the past

It's a perception issue where people know what to expect so it feels bad

But the other way around feels bad too, with 10% boss nerfs every week, MoP style

[young latch]

No, it really is every activity. Major power progression is through time gating. Mything and rading can't be done effectively without going through those hoops. Farming transmogs? Time gating. If you play for the story? That's also time gated.

[opaque pewter]

Exactly what I said

So you pretty much have to choose one of the other. Because doing nothing and keeping it the same for a long time will make the majority think it's stale, which is pretty much what is also happening here.
Though maybe the best way is to not reveal future plans and "gate" releases with small drip patches.
It's very expensive to do it that way though

[young latch]

Shadowlands is just missing way too much solo narrative side content that isn't time gated. It needs something like order halls that focuses on characters they can get attached to in depth.

[uncut vault]

I'll never get why they struck gold with Suramar in Legion as a max level story-focused zone at launch, and then never even tried to replicate that since

having both the class halls and the suramar story made for such a good breadth of story at max level

having both a personal identity story and a universal story did a lot to balance a cohesive experience with motivation to play other classes

[urban spire]

suramar to this day is one of my favourite quest zones

like even at max level

so fucking good

[young latch]

It's like they have the bare bones down for an epic story but it's lacking all of the warm personal touches that made Legion work

The closest shadowlands got to giving me this moment was in ardenwield where niyeah was traumatized by all of her friends dying and the wolf spirit sits with her to tell her a story

that's the stuff we're missing

[uncut vault]

at this point I really think they need to consider just making xpac development a three year process, it's a big part of what made Legion work and have so much depth to it

WoD got sacrificed for its sake, but if they just gave each xpac more time like what Legion got, quality xpacs could be more consistent

[young latch]

I don't even know if it's a time issue because, it's like... writing personal quests don't take away asset time from other things.

it's mostly a voice actor and writer endeavor

which do not seem to be existing here

[uncut vault]

thats the issue, its not writers doing that

it's quest designers

quest designers do the vast majority of in game dialogue, including major lore characters

writing story in WoW itself seems to be more of a "coder who can write some" job, rather than dedicated writers who give their content to the designers to implement

[young latch]

i keep getting tempted to want to apply to a blizzard job but then i'd be working at blizzard and having a bad time

i am genuinely interested in wanting to write lore quests for this ip i care a great deal about, but then i read the stories about people's breastmilk getting stolen

[strange falcon]

you can write lore quests for another universe and another ip

[young latch]

I already do for multiple ones 😛

[young latch]

I just hope this was a case of "bad management stretched jobs too thin" instead of "coders and writers should and can be the same people and this is for sure our philosophy"

[uncut vault]

It's always been the philosophy, just based on how far back people have talked about it

[young latch]

Did the coders get suddenly decent at writing in legion?

Because it was like... "oh this is a character from 5 years ago you are actually remembering to address and doing it well?"

[uncut vault]

They hired a ton of new devs for Legion

and had to train them for it, hence why WoD got cut so much

[young latch]

Even bfa has some little personal quests but shadowlands is so barren

[light pivot]

Are void elves gonna be able to disable entropic embrace with this patch

[plain violet]

No.

[mossy meteor]

no

2nd legendary is like chapter 5

which is a week after mythic release

[cosmic beacon]

Set crafting is 8 weeks

After launch

[mossy meteor]

that's different

[cosmic beacon]

Ye but I assume that’s where they got the number from

[mossy meteor]

you get the belt in chapter 5 (if memory serves)

and with the rep changes, you'll be done with the rep by week 3

[merry tusk]

having a heck of a time deciding on a main for 9.2

[mossy meteor]

go arcane mage

[merry tusk]

i'd like to play frost, but unsure how the nerfs have hit it in raiding

maybe ill just stick with the subpar BM

[drowsy leaf]

arcane dumb play fire/frost

[mossy meteor]

unless you're pushing for top 100 mythic raiding, ignore "nerfs" and buffs"

play whatever spec you like

damage is irrelevant

[urban spire]

^ if your guild isn't going for something super prestigious you cna play the spec and class you want

[merry tusk]

yeah i know, im just having a hard time being so far down the dps list 😄

[cosmic beacon]

90% chance that has nothing to do with the spec tho

[plain violet]

Yeah. The better you know how to play your spec, the higher you will be. And to survive mechanics, too.

[merry tusk]

Pretty confident I play my spec decently well, it is regularly at the bottom of the charts for raid logs so I think it's just behind in damage now

[dense plover]

i mean - the bottom in current wow is nowhere near as far from the top as it used to be

[glass flicker]

So, you know the real time cinematic they used when Anduin shoo'd us to Oribos?

I think they'll use that technology to finally give the player characters a kill during the Jailer fight.

[strange falcon]

i think the only canonical player kill according to chronicles is C'thun, prob a few others, i dont have the book

[urban spire]

canonical player kills in what context?

I think we've killed a few big names

[uncut vault]

we also got one in BfA, and it was uh

really bad 😛

they need to actually make us a character first before giving us personal kills

they are entirely hollow as it stands now because our actual character has no stakes in any story, we're just a cameraman for the real heroes

[uncut vault]

https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/1493490236348932096?s=20&t=vjAUklsxGLSF-hIfu36Iyw

Martin Benjamins (@Marlamin)

Blizzard shipped a new (likely encrypted) WoW product/endpoint called wowdev3 about an hour ago. No build on it yet. For comparison, wowdev is sparingly used for mainline (e.g. 9.x) while wowdev2 was used for TBC Classic. Could be used for 3.4 (WotLK Classic), 10.0 or neither.

Twitter · Feb 15, 2022, 7:39 AM

[hollow skiff]

Does anyone know exactly how long we need for revered in 9.2 since the last rep update? found no latest info about 😮

[upper pasture]

It’s like 25 days or something last I saw but maybe less if you grind literally everything?

[hollow skiff]

25 was it before rares were nerfed :/

[upper pasture]

They just buffed all other sources tho no? Like double all WQs and weeklies too

It was 27 before that

[plain violet]

Yes, they buffed all other sources, so that will not be 25.

[hollow skiff]

when i count everything i come to 29 days without rares

2x Bi-Weeklyquest (500 rep each), 3x Worldquest (2625 rep/week) and Worldboss (500/week) = 4125 rep/week (without campaign/rares and rdm things).
4weeks x 4125 = 16500 rep plus campaign in first 4 weeks 2100 + 450 + 500+500 = 3550
16500 + 3550 = 20050 rep after 28 days
on day 29 we get the last 950 rep.... or i'm wrong? 🙂

but yeah it is without rares and random rep

[cunning fossil]

IIRC they said it wouldn't take much longer than a month. Probably closer to the 3 week range?

Basically even if you don't do every possible Rep activity, you should still comfortable unlock it within the month

[strange falcon]

13$ of d i l i g e n t f a r m i ng

[tropic osprey]

Lol im already honored in wild hunt/undying army/bastion by doing wq and also doing table battle without knowing i have honor in all 3 faction. But idk about venthry and the broker one cause im still doing relic and styrgia

[cunning fossil]

Fair

[subtle oar]

Wrath baby!

[hearty sequoia]

hey, i've looked everywhere but I wanted to make sure, are there any new potions or flasks for 9.2? or just the same ones?

[austere gazelle]

and If you're in a casu guild that is a meta slave, leave it

[drowsy leaf]

same ones that youve been using

[astral jasper]

WotLK* baby

[subtle oar]

???

[sharp tide]

do we know about ilvl from dungs and raids in 9.2? I see only not specific numbers.

[tough forge]

I think in raid are ilvl 220

[subtle oar]

220 is nathria

[sharp tide]

True. That sounds like same ilvl. So not probably 😄

[tough forge]

nathria raid ilvl rised? Currently it's ilvl 170 req, dom 195 ilvl req

[sharp tide]

Are you talking about required ilvl for LFR? 😄

[subtle oar]

XDDDDDD

[sharp tide]

no no, not laughing. Maybe he is right, thanks for info. But i need information about drops from dungs and raid, specialy normal and hc raids. Could be usefel for planning progress for my guild.

[subtle oar]

He's not right, I think he doesn't know about heroic or mythic

Normal Sepulcher of the First Ones - 252 ilvl (259 from the last 2 bosses); Heroic Sepulcher of the First Ones - 265 ilvl (272 from the last 2 bosses); Mythic Sepulcher of the First Ones - 278 ilvl (285 from the last 2 bosses)

@sharp tide

[sharp tide]

big jump. Hoped that last hc will be current normal. But ok, thx. Noticed ❤️

[rain cave]

wow mobile

XD

[tough forge]

Yes

Oh okay, I see. I thought you wanted the number requirments of ilvl for lfr.

[tough forge]

I'm wrong and correct at same time. I just thought he meant lfr

[edgy ivy]

Looks like they increased rep from ZM world quests again, they're giving 200 rep now up from 125. And the human diplomacy buff no longer works.

[sharp tide]

that's nice

[edgy ivy]

Oh wait, that's the weekly buff

[molten flower]

i have not really played SL much at all other than getting 1 toon to 60 on launch. What's the fastest way to catchup in 9.2 so I can start doing....stuff....

[cosmic beacon]

get to max renown and complete covenent campaign to unlock all ur soulbinds

thats about it since patch is very soon so youll get good catchup gear from the new zone

[glass flicker]

Heroic dungeons to renown 60, Torghast till you get a decent ilvl legendary, then do the campaign.

Korthia to gear up if you have nothing meanwhile.

And LFR, too.

[molten flower]

will that be easier to do in 9.2? the renown

[edgy ivy]

Yes

Just about every campaign quest in 9.2 gives renown

[molten flower]

alright i guess ill just wait till tomarrow to play then

maybe setup my professions in the meanwhiile

[glass flicker]

You've got time. 9.2 will be big, though. After like a week of it.

[edgy ivy]

Basically all you need to do to start 9.2 is the covenant intro, then skip, then Korthia intro. Once you complete the Korthia intro you can start Zereth Mortis

[molten flower]

nice

[glass flicker]

Don't you need to do the campaign once to skip it on alts?

You can just skip it now if you've never done it?

[edgy ivy]

Good q

I don't know

All I know is the Zereth Mortis intro quest will not pop until you've completed Korthia Awaits

[molten flower]

i wanna try to make a lot of golds the first week, wanted enough item level to start farming skinnings and stuff

skinning/mining probbably

[glass flicker]

If the zone has an unique resource that can be sold, and you don't find it useful, sell that.

I made a fortune selling Korthite Crystals.

[molten flower]

nice

[glass flicker]

Herbalism seems to sell well.

Potions and flasks are always needed, while leather just becomes insignificant with time. At least engineers may use items from mining.

And save up a lot of Lightless Silk. I gathered a few stacks in the guild bank and sold them in bulk, easy gold.

Tailoring items drop from mobs on the regular.

[molten flower]

Is there a catchup on how to get legendary powers or higher lvl conduits? i'm missing a few that are now BIS

[strange falcon]

you'll have to hope someone is still running nathria lfr for the memories, if you're missing those
i remember there being a "get a random memory" but idk if there's a "get a random conduit" outside of korthia

[molten flower]

ahh okay i only need 1 from a 5man dungeon shouldn't be too rough

[cunning fossil]

All Conduits can be upgraded to 200 from a vendor on Oribos 2nd floor next to the flight master

[merry tusk]

is there a list anywhere of how much soul ash each rank will cost to make in 9.2?

[cunning fossil]

Should be exactly the same as what we have Right now

The only additional cost is the Cosmic

[molten flower]

it wont let me says I need "the renown"

i have like 30 or 40 lol, i need 80 renown.

[cunning fossil]

naniii

[cosmic beacon]

you dont need to have 80

well unless you wanna make ur life easier for alts

[cunning fossil]

Ooof. Do u have a main?

Blizz whya re these Unique

FUcking wha

[upper pasture]

can't wait to do 9.2 intro 17 times tomorrow! 😄

[molten flower]

yeah this is my main, ii barely played SL it wasn't fun but 9.2 looks okay

i can do 9.2 with like 40 renown?

[upper pasture]

renown isn't going to stop you from doing the campaign

just do the korthia intro and you should be golden

[molten flower]

ahh ok

[deep pawn]

Oh right, tomorrow is patch day.

Do I get a token for it, choices.

9.2 just isn't adding all that much...

[cunning fossil]

What do you mean?

[upper pasture]

I’m not sure what they mean, maybe they meant a WoW token for game time? Idk 🤷‍♂️

[glass flicker]

9.2 looks fun, I just want to see the longevity of its systems, seeing as world content became more focused on.

Especially for collectors.

Mythic+ and raids are fine, but what else do you do? That's my mentality.

[sharp tide]

WoW was focused on raid from many years. They made game easier later by changing difficulty, accessibility
and ways of creating groups. So raid was't that high tier way like before. It was content for everyone.
Later they introduced m+ and devs seen that people like it and are focused on doing this on high lvl. It was almost hard as progress of mythic raid (bcs norm and hc are closer to old norm than hc in any way). So M+ created a space for people who don;t have time and group for raid but liked to compete. Something between old hc raid and new casual game style. So.. it's still the same focus, just a different game. 😄

i have big hopes for 1v1. It will not be a way for solo players to beat elite but not in 2 or 3 ppl team. but it could be a way to compete on high lvl and be recognized by people. Just for fun.

[glass flicker]

And what to do you get except gear?

[sharp tide]

from 1v1? or m+ and raid

[glass flicker]

A few achievements and maybe a mount.

World content is for collectors, that's what I meant.

[sharp tide]

ofc, that's why Korthia was rly nice place and i hope Zerith will be just bigger version of it

but still main end game content will be raid in m+ in this game

[glass flicker]

Zereth Mortis has potential. Its downsides only seem to include longevity and quality of content.

You wouldn't want to repeat the same thing day in, day out.

[sharp tide]

i think no one want same contnent in loop

[glass flicker]

Making a diverse pool of dailies isn't a fix, either.

Some achievements require you to complete a daily quest a few times.

You can't do that if a daily quest happens once every blood moon.

[sharp tide]

that's why SL sounds nice that we can earn things from diffferent content. But they probably dind't have time for development

[sharp tide]

that's or timegate or bad rng.

[glass flicker]

Timegating will not be an issue in most cases, because rep gains are designed so that you can't earn too much at once.

Bad RNG is an issue though.

RNG will never stop being an issue.

[sharp tide]

yeah, sure

[deep pawn]

I mean that Zereth doesn't seem that engaging, only two new dungeons for m+ and a raid I can't find excitement for

[strange falcon]

You can always not sub right away and wait it out a few months if you dont feel up to it, not like the game is gonna have any new content until 10.0 after this

And you'll save time to invest somewhere else

[deep pawn]

just makes me a bit sad that a whole patch and it feels empty to me. 😦

[strange falcon]

It do be like that, thankfully for you,wow is not the only game that exists in the universe

[cosmic beacon]

What if shadowlands is what draenor was to legion

We get not much content and stuff, next expansion drops and it’s insane

[strange falcon]

We cant predict the future

[molten flower]

elden ring

[uncut lintel]

HOW DO WE GET THE NEW CHEETAH FORM WHEN SERVESR aRE UP

[glass flicker]

It's just the glyph but updated, isn't it?

[uncut vault]

Main reason legion was like that was due to the huge amount of people they hired, they spent WoD training them and Legion was the result

There’s no equivalent massive surge of hires for WoW atm, most stuff suggests they’ve lost more compared to when Shadowlands started

[strange falcon]

I think the entire year they cut short wod to work on legion played a big part as well

[cosmic beacon]

let me huff my copium

[uncut vault]

And shadowlands launch had to pull in the Diablo and Overwatch 2 teams just to get released

[strange falcon]

No

[uncut lintel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/645993803160748032/895239026175512596/caption.gif

[strange falcon]

Damn foxy really is bored, huh

[uncut lintel]

yea

weve got 6 hours left

better deal with me

[glass flicker]

Here's an idea.

Draw something.

[uncut lintel]

no

plz go read up in retail wow chat to kno y i havent drawn anything importtnat

[cunning fossil]

Lmao

[left arch]

Excited for next xpac tbh

[left arch]

this made me haha funni

[scarlet ermine]

guys can i complete path of enlightment yet? i cant find a return to grace starting quest

[young latch]

i think i'd be a lot more invested in rana's story if i remembered who she was?

[upper pasture]

i don't think we know who rana is other than that other guy knew she left on the expedition for ZM?

[quasi zenith]

Hey people! So i was about to skipp 9.2 content...but yesterday my guildies were making me anxious to play it. What do you guys think about it? Is it worth spending gold for a token to try it?

Its more of the same?

[young latch]

I really like it so far-- the zone and music is beautiful at least

And the topography is sane

[deep pawn]

It is a lot of jumping puzzles really and a lot of questing deals with new characters we barely get to know so far.

In general, it's more of the same if you did Korthia

[young latch]

I'm still on quests with shandris for some reason; lord knows why lol

[cunning fossil]

I think that wow can make individual characters super cool

I wanna know more about Rana

But unfortunately, wow for some reason just can't fucking do what it's good at

And instead tries to go for giga brain 5d chess shit

[deep pawn]

Is Rana even going to be relevant? Her quests aren't even main story quests

[cunning fossil]

Oddly enough I love the side characters more than the "mains" t this point

[young latch]

i wish we knew rana since the beginning of the expansion or that she was just venari

[cunning fossil]

No she's a side quest. But that doesn't stop her from exuding way more character than Jaina/thrall/ literally any main cast person this expac

[deep pawn]

Oh I agree

[cunning fossil]

Same go's for Al'Dinal

He's overly cautious, and genuinely caring

But not harsh and controlling

[deep pawn]

Jaina so far in 9.2 could be replaced with anyone haha

[cunning fossil]

Yeah which is why I'm a bit peeved

Why was she taken here?

[deep pawn]

The raid since that's where all the real story happens

[cunning fossil]

It's literally just proving my idea that Sylvanas targeted them out of spit

As if she's gonna do anything lore than talk to Emo-Duin

Which is horrible for his character IMO

[deep pawn]

After ff14 I really hope 10.0 decides to focus on making the story real.

[cunning fossil]

Same.

I want some good old fashioned cool shit

Legion was cool because it was rooted in previous lore

[deep pawn]

Do anything to put more cutscenes in game that aren't just 10 seconds and over.

[cunning fossil]

Facts

Also I wanna see some humanizing of all the characters

Can they be people pls?

Like, they're more than plot drivers. Or at least I hope they are

I legitimately wanna see a storyline focused on a day with Jaina being who she is. What she likes doing.

And Maybe even acknowledging my existence

[strange falcon]

They're cardboard cutouts to make ppl go "hey its jaina"

[strange falcon]

The player has 0 agency and is just an "incredibly stupid person that does what its told" level plot device.
They're too deathly afraid to squish them back to adventurer status after saving the world 4 times

[cunning fossil]

I would like to be treated as a person

Maybe send me to a trauma treater

I want a psychologist

[young latch]

I'm tired of robots in wow but these are the coolest looking robots I've ever seen in any wow zone.

[strange falcon]

You should do the ||Dark Knight job quests in FF, its included in free trial too||

[deep pawn]

My biggest hopes in 10.0 is a bigger focus on story every step along the way, make my character feel invested somehow. And maybe reducing the gap between the worst and the best gear in a patch

[left arch]

we support jaina in this household

and hate sylvanas

[cunning fossil]

I am though. I just want her to be more than a plot devix

[subtle oar]

Lol no cx

[queen path]

Die again sylvanas pleaseeee

[glass flicker]

It'd be the fourth time, lmao.

Nah, she may go live in Revendreth.

Maybe destroy her body, though.

Maybe have some character dynamics between Sylvanas and Kael'thas.

"You're prince Kael'thas Sunstrider!"
"Not anymore. Are you not the Ranger General?"

They must have at least heard of one another.

[subtle oar]

Lol wishful thinking XD

[visual vortex]

How far part were they?

[rough aspen]

looking for people to play wow with dm me if you want max 5 people

[devout ivy]

d

[mossy meteor]

9.2.5 is on the vendor branch

Ptr probably not this week though

[deep pawn]

it has to be fast

they have 9.2.5 and a beta to get to

[glass flicker]

Yes. Fucking. Finally! I've been waiting on a cool Anduin moment for years. Him splitting Shalamayme is almost perfect.

[dense plover]

beta not until AT LEAST after the jailer cutscene releases

more likely - we get expac announcement sometime after the last lfr wing

so 2 months

[deep pawn]

It's gonna feel real bad to have 9.2 for 9+ months

[dense plover]

thats not that bad

both BfA and Legion had almost year long final patches

i suspect since 9.1 was SO long, that 10.X might actually be 9-10 months which would be pretty good tbh

[subtle oar]

Still say this makes zero sense

[dense plover]

they usually wait until LFR cutscenes

[subtle oar]

They don't though. Since Wrath, we've seen them announce the next expac before the last major patch launchs

There is ZERO reason to wait 2 months, announce new xpac, wait another more fore the .5 then wait another for beta

Having the next xpac launch if 2023 will kill it

[deep pawn]

we're over 500 days in this expansion already

sorry, 450

No matter what, this expansion was an outright failure and I would say I regret paying for it in many ways.

[glass flicker]

Shadowlands should have been full of callbacks and easter eggs.

We got Hakkar, at the very least.

[strange falcon]

Both bfa and legion didn't have two 8month content droughts back to back before the 9-10month if not 1 year content drought of last patch.

You might as well rename shadowlands to "content drought: the expansion"

[glass flicker]

I gave Blizzard the benefit of the doubt with covid, but Shadowlands was ridiculous.

Unsolved plot threads, loose ends, who the heck is the dreadlord Mal'Ganis teams up with?

I don't hate the game or the story, I'm just tired.

[strange falcon]

Saw someone say this to the anduin cinematic

And the monologue sounds suspiciously like Daneuser saying "Okay, time to forget about the best villain in the entire WC series and focus on MY writing now!"

[glass flicker]

Will he keep simping for Sylvanas?

Find out in the next episode of WoWcraft Ball Z!

[young latch]

It was a great monologue imo.

[strange falcon]

They turned arthas into a 35anima orb,
Many people didn't like that

[deep pawn]

I honestly didn't care about the Arthas part.

The whole cinematic was just too short.

I know it's a limitation of the engine, but still.

[strange falcon]

You wont like this then
https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/status/1498805665275559936

Ian Bates 💙 (@TheRedShirtGuy)

Interestingly, the Jailer defeat cinematic is much shorter than the Anduin one. It's 1 minute 23 seconds long, compared to Anduin's 2 minute 42 second one.

Twitter · Mar 1, 2022, 11:41 PM

[deep pawn]

I already know it's shorter. It'll be him collapsing, and then Bolvar going "HE HURT AZEROTH! CHAMPION YOU MUST GO BACK!"

[glass flicker]

"In defeat, Zovaal wounded Azeroth in ways not even the Mad Titan, Sargeras did. Go back home, Maw Walker, Champion of the Shadowlands!"

[austere gazelle]

they probably won't wait to have anyone having witnessed the content since it'll flourish everywhere on the net next tuesday. If they are on a strict schedule they'll wait the first down in normal and will announce the new xpack soon after

[young latch]

I didn't really mind; what else is gonna happen to you when somebody drops you into the maw.

[balmy gate]

You might as well rename shadowlands to "content drought: the expansion"
I almost spat my coffee.

[novel robin]

as one among the Starter Edition community who have better stuff to spend money than the superexpensive monthly sub.

I'd say i got DROWNED with content, and i loved it SO MUCH

i give a 9/10 to Shadowlands AT LEAST

[strange falcon]

You'd certainly be in the low minority with that vote, the new player experience certainly isn't very kind in explaining stuff

[novel robin]

i'd honestly call it more like

"we finally care about the free to play players: the expansion"

[strange falcon]

I reaaally dont think that's the case, more an unintended side effect that just happened to be in the favor of free to play players

[novel robin]

OH AND I FORGOT TO MENTION

they gave us access to DK and DH at this expansion

gee my guy, startereditiongasm

[subtle oar]

O.o who are you?

[upper pasture]

All I’m getting from the complaining about arthas is people will bitch they want new evil guys so when they finally close out someone who shouldn’t be coming back then people complain that they are getting rid of the “best” and that they shouldn’t do that.

But again, I’ve expected to see people complain either way about whatever comes out so I’m not surprised in the slightest.

[novel robin]

i am Maxtery-Sama, the pleasure is yours

[plain violet]

This much sadly.

[subtle oar]

You're deliberately not understanding the complaints then. The complaints are that Arthas was done dirty. His send-off should have been much better. Giving closure to Jaina, Uther and Sylvanas.

[tepid fiber]

Arthas had his send-off in December of 2009, to be fair

[deep pawn]

The arthas being barely there is fine. He was used up by the jailer. Just another of his crimes.

While jaina and Uther both had come to terms with their feelings about arthas, I'd have enjoyed seeing them relate some to sylvanas all as victims.

But when we have just 2 minutes of cinematic to tell a climatic part of a character arc, oh well

[uncut vault]

it's more just an issue of WoW storytelling in general nowadays

they clearly want to tell a proper RPG story, but don't have the capability to do so in game

everything has to be squished into 2-3 minute cinematics

and nothing in game is ever really impactful to the story, because marketing demands mean that everything meaningful has to go into the youtube-accessible cinematics

10 or so minutes of actual story and plot every 6 months does not an expansion storyline make, sadly

[glass flicker]

They could make more short cinematics, rather than investing in longer ones for YouTube.

[uncut vault]

that would probably make it worse tbh, because a big issue is how brief and underexplored most of these plot points are

IE the Elune cinematic entirely skipping over Tyrande actually getting to make the choice and talk to elune

Story needs to utilize the in game cutscenes much more, like every few quests at minimum

[glass flicker]

Exactly. Which is why I proposed the shorter cinematics idea.

[uncut vault]

cutting up the existing amount of time wouldnt really do anything

there needs to be more time, flat out

regardless of the individual cinematic length

4 3-minute cinematics wont do better than 3 4-minute cinematics, because it's still only 12 minutes of actual story content

Not to pull that comparison, but comparing a patch's worth of story cutscenes in WoW to a game like FFXIV is just kinda insane

9.1 had 12 minutes of cinematics and cutscenes, in total

patch 5.3 in FFXIV had four and a half hours of cutscenes

[dense plover]

yes, but 14 cinematics half the time are essentially the same as wow quests with voice acting

its still more time per patch

but its not comparable due to the difference in what is considered a "cinematic"

[glass flicker]

Cutscenes and cinematics are also fundamentally different.

In both games, cutscenes are machinima style bits of animation.

Cinematics are fully animated, have more time put into them, etc.

And more often than not, cinematics will not have the player characters in them. Unless you're doing it in real time, like the Maw scenario at the beginning of the expansion.

[dense plover]

that maw scenario was still VERY impressive

[glass flicker]

Indeed.

[dense plover]

the fact that they took anduins cinematic model and the jailer's and ported it into the game so that the mouths and hair and such animated properly was impressive

but it was also probably too much work

[glass flicker]

And that's why we haven't seen it since.

[dense plover]

i hope they do more but i imagine the reason they havent is because its time-inefficient

im sure theres a team somewhere working to make the process more efficient

because it probably still took less time than a fully rendered cinematic

since they didnt have to render everything

[glass flicker]

I believe they wanted to do this real time cinematic thing with N'zoth, but couldn't, so they just did a cut from cutscene to cinematic.

[dense plover]

its possible

i imagine that if they can figure out how to do it efficiently enough, they could probably make a lot more of those types of cinematics and fewer rendered ones to result in more overall cinematics

[glass flicker]

Hopefully that's the case.

Machinima cutscenes feel awkward sometimes.

Kleia hugging Pelagos should have been in a cinematic, not cutscene, fight me.

It looked so bad with those mouth flaps.

We don't even see the embrace happen. Kleia just arm poses and then we're in a close-up shot.

https://youtu.be/GKTzNrFZRaI

I know it's a WIP, but they could have done it better. It's a touchy moment, make it feel like one.

Everything but the animation was on point. And the voice actors killed it. So good. But why not make it a cinematic?

[uncut vault]

This one got changed

It’s now similar to the maw intro/9.1 epilogue

[glass flicker]

Thank goodness.

[uncut vault]

Pre-made high quality models with pre made animations

[glass flicker]

I love the title Wowhead gave the video, tho.

"Pelagos Becomes Cutscene"

Brings a tear to my eye.

[uncut vault]

I also included in game cutscene stuff in my time, but that’s more why I compare it, because WoW decedent needs to catch up in animations in order to create stuff anywhere near that level

WoW desperately needs some generic animations for cutscenes so characters can talk in a way that isn’t just standing around in game, or horrible mouth flapping

[glass flicker]

Yes.

[uncut vault]

And doesn’t take the budget of making a cinematic model anyways like these ones

[glass flicker]

They just slow down basic animations for some talking scenes.

[uncut vault]

Plus, it would allow the player to actually do things in the story other than “combat stance” and “racial nod animation”

[glass flicker]

That's FFXIV.

Nodding simulator.

[uncut vault]

You do a lot more as a character in ffxiv, because the story doesn’t have to pretend you aren’t there or are just an inanimate object

The nod isn’t just an exxagerated racial animation, but one specially made for cutscenes, same with talking, and all forms of movement in them

Looking at their attempt at a nod in the 9.2 arbiter cutscene is just hilarious

Because the poor animators don’t have a cutscene-applicable nod

[glass flicker]

The nelf male is good.

They actually have the best nod animation.

Human males have a shit eating grin.

[uncut vault]

https://youtu.be/ZdtTReaVI8A

At 38 seconds

[glass flicker]

Oh boy, here we go.

[uncut vault]

It’s just a really awkward gyrate up and down of the torso, cause even if you just isolate the head animation, no two races have the same animation for nodding to fit within that time frame

[glass flicker]

Could have slight differences.

Like how draenei females tilt their heads to the side.

[uncut vault]

Well that’s what I mean, there’s too much variance between all the races for it to be worth going through each and cutting the animation just right for what is a .5 second nod

Hence why investing in a bunch of universal conversation animations for cutscenes would do a world of good, not just for players but for NPCs as well

[glass flicker]

100% agree.

[uncut vault]

Standardized set of tools they can use to pace animations to line up with voice acting much easier

[young latch]

i feel like pandaria did a very good job of storytelling through quests with voice acting and expressions

so i don't know why they just don't commit to hiring quest authors to design with this kind of immersion in mind

[uncut vault]

Pandaria did have a lot more liberal use of cutscenes compared to the modern game, but also it understood that the story should actually like... use the game to tell the story lol

BfA started the really bad trend of telling stories solely through cinematics

and the idea that stories should be understandable just by watching the cinematics, so nothing actually matters in the game itself

[deep pawn]

I'm fine with cutscenes, I love ff14 quests for example. I just don't think WoW has enough to pull it off.

Quests have been extremely bland last two expansions

[uncut vault]

Well, I think that everything depends on the writing and ability of the folks making it regardless haha

if I had any say, WoW would fundmaentally rework how it writes its in game story, having writers being the ones creating the dialogue

not quest designers like how it is now, which just baffles me

[dense plover]

The problem there Porter is that it goes back to WC3 story

The writers then were essentially the quest designers

They’ve left their overall process unchanged

[mossy meteor]

My guess is that they'll announce 10.0 after the world first race

They seem to care about it much more this time (hopefully because they finally realized how big of a deal it is)

That way they can continue having wow in the news for a little bit longer

Either that or after the final story chapter is out

[astral jasper]

hard disagree

[tepid fiber]

If anything the questing helped carry the last two

[glass flicker]

Yup.

My only issue is not having enough to do on the side. I get easily distracted, but it's my idea of fun.

Like those jumping puzzles in Zereth Mortis.

And even kill and collect quests can get spicy. Just put a tougher mob at the end.

[urban spire]

questing in shadowlands for me was good in all but maldraxxus(i just dont like mal too much tbh because of the zone) but BFA had some of the best leveling in any expansions

Especially Kul'Tiras

[glass flicker]

WoD had the best leveling, imo.

You had so much side content along the main story.

[urban spire]

I love WoD leveling

one of my fav expacs to play alts through

I wish I could kul'tiras on my horde chars

I love it so much

[glass flicker]

The story was also top shelf.

[urban spire]

Zandalar isn't bad either

[glass flicker]

Especially Frostfire.

[urban spire]

but I like Kultiras more

I agree. I think WoD had one of, if not, my favourite leveling experience

I actually really disliked legion for leveling personally

It's not terrible or bad by any stretch

[glass flicker]

I hated Aszuna.

[urban spire]

but I didn't like how separated the stories felt

[glass flicker]

Stormheim was too long, but the ending was cool.

[urban spire]

The pillars of creation wasn't a compelling enough connection between the zones for me

However

[glass flicker]

Highmountain and Val'Sharah were inoffensive.

[urban spire]

Suramar is one of the best zones every created

I wish for timewalking it was made for level 35+

instead of 45

[glass flicker]

Suramar should be taken as an example. Make capital cities into entire zones, Blizzard.

[urban spire]

True

[glass flicker]

Timewalking? Make it level 10.

[urban spire]

But yeah, for me I think my favourite leveling experiences and stories for WoW expacs go
WoD, MoP, Kul'Tiras,TBC,Wrath, Cata, and the rest are kind of together

[glass flicker]

And have it award giga exp rather than timewarped badges until 50.

[urban spire]

Yeah I would like for all zones to start at 10, or the very least be level 35 at max

[glass flicker]

Wait, Cata is last place?

Hyjal is amazing.

[urban spire]

no no

Legion, vanilla are after

I like cata quite a bit

I like vashjir too

[glass flicker]

Fair. But I still have a retort.

[urban spire]

despite what many people say

[glass flicker]

Silverpine Forest.

[urban spire]

honestly, been a hot minute since silverpine for me

[glass flicker]

Silverpine had some of the best storytelling imo.

And I still fondly go quest there to this day.

Even though Garrosh doesn't call Sylvanas a bitch anymore.

[tepid fiber]

Nagrand, Grizzly Hills...

Nagrand again...

[glass flicker]

Which Nagrand? Both are good.

Oh, fair.

Grizzly Hills is great, but it can get tedious on a repeated playthrough.

I do like how many rare mobs that award unique transmogs Wrath has, though.

[rose escarp]

With the way Drust turned out to be quite a big part in Shadowlands, it was a bit of a bummer to be Horde. There's a lot of important story elements that is kept from the opposing faction. I imagine Alliance must feel the same in regards to Bwonsambi, for instance.

[glass flicker]

I thought Thros would be the 9.2 zone, with 9.3 being Zereth Mortis. Shame.

[tepid fiber]

That's why it's always beneficial to play both factions if you care about story. Only playing one is shooting yourself in the foot

And, honestly, being able to see different sides of different stories is one thing I dig about WoW

[glass flicker]

I like that you're rewarded for it.

[tepid fiber]

Definitely, as you should be

[glass flicker]

The Alliance wolf and Horde horse.

It's not just knowledge of events, it's also cosmetic rewards.

[tepid fiber]

Or as an ex used to call them, the spy wolf and traitor horse

[glass flicker]

Hilarious.

I do wish we got a hood + cloak transmog that resembles Sylvanas after we do 9.2, though.

That'd be neat.

And make it cosmetic, too.

[tepid fiber]

Perhaps make it like the Saurfang cloak from the Swamp of Sorrows quest

[glass flicker]

Yea.

That's a toy, though.

[tepid fiber]

Yeah, but it'd be fitting

[glass flicker]

I suppose.

[tepid fiber]

There are so many cloaks. Something that unique fits with the existing trend of unique clothing toys

[glass flicker]

I was thinking they could give us a wider cloak like Sylvanas' using the back accessories.

[rose escarp]

That would actually be really awesome, yeah. I'm also curious if that had anything in relation to the devourers (or if that's a plot thread for, erh, "the next thing"). I do think it's curios that Zovaal looks very drust in his "true form".

[rose escarp]

Yeah, agreed 🙂

[glass flicker]

The Devourers, I believe, are a hint to the next expansion.

They seem to tear through reality itself.

[tepid fiber]

Meh, personally I like them just being native fauna of the In-Between

[rose escarp]

Yeah, I'm guessing they're some kind of mirror to "Creation".

[glass flicker]

Could be!

[tepid fiber]

We don't need to know everything. Keep em as they are tbh

[glass flicker]

Apparently, Zovaal and us let some Devourers sneak into Zereth Mortis.

[tepid fiber]

It's already established they're native to the Shadowlands

[rose escarp]

Oh?

[tepid fiber]

Yes, basically in all of the quests where we first encounter them

[rose escarp]

If I remember everything correct, Thros was also a realm in the Shadowlands? There was some connection there, at least, right?

[glass flicker]

Thros is the realm of the Drust, and we've seen it firsthand in BfA.

[dense plover]

thros is inbetween life and death

[glass flicker]

But it was just an island off of Kul Tiras, not sure the Shadowlands has anything to do with it.

[dense plover]

it is neither

and it shouldve been patch 9.1 imo

[glass flicker]

With Korthia in 9.2.

Yeah, I agree.

[dense plover]

instead we handled the bwonsamdi stuff and it was ignored and all of the threads from that zone were wasted on muehzala who didnt even matter

[glass flicker]

Mueh'zala really should have been a raid boss.

[tepid fiber]

The Drust are invading the Shadowlands due to the manipulation of Mueh'zala and the Jailer to help destabilize the covenants. That was part of the plot to the Night Fae questline

[rose escarp]

Yeah, agreed

[glass flicker]

And I wish Kel'Thuzad would have been the final boss of Sanctum of Domination, with a following raid only having Sylvanas.

[dense plover]

eh

idk

kelthuzad shouldnt have been a boss again at all imo

[glass flicker]

Sylvanas, but we fight her more than once as we push her deeper into Torghast.

And every victory is rewarded.

[dense plover]

i think it wouldve been great to fight him as a dungeon boss and then FINALLY beat him or to have him destroyed in a cutscene since people like him and that would make whoever killed him a target

it just felt weird to have so many returning enemies but not really any changes made

[glass flicker]

You gotta know Kel'Thuzad will be back once Denathrius also returns.

Wait...

Did we find Mr. Bigglesworth in Shadowlands?

You know, KT's cat?

[dense plover]

yes

[glass flicker]

Neat.

[dense plover]

sorry wait

jigglesworth

bigglesworth isnt dead

[glass flicker]

Oh.

[dense plover]

im wrong

nvm

[glass flicker]

Mr. Jigglesworth.

Perfect.

[dense plover]

"Bigglesworth's soul accompanied his master to the Shadowlands and appears in the Sanctum of Domination as a slime cat. He is involved in the raid achievement [Together Forever]."

[haughty hound]

Together Forever - https://ptr.wowhead.com/achievement=15108/together-forever - PTR 9.2.0

Together Forever

PTR 9.2.0

[glass flicker]

Kel'Thuzad is so much more sympathetic due to Mr. Bigglesworth.

If only Zovaal had a cat, a chair, and a mustache to twirl.

[rose escarp]

And we'd only ever see his arm and the back of his chair.

[glass flicker]

Giant chair carried by Mawsworn.

[rose escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/inspector-gadget-cartoon-pat-dr-claw-cat-gif-8109722

[glass flicker]

He finally gets up after getting the Arbiter Sigil.

Sits down again, gets his armor.

The chair also gets armor.

[rose escarp]

Sold

[deep pawn]

I actually should have specified level cap questing. Especially in shadowlands. I can't say I really liked covenant campaigns, Korthia, or the first half of zereth

[young latch]

I like the leveling quests a lot. It's just the post game that was lackluster. BFA horde had the same issues for me though.

[deep pawn]

Levelling is usually good if not great. It's everything at level cap. Blizzard just assumes players don't care so long as they get to do the raid I guess.

[dense plover]

poor christie golden - having to write that book as the overall story has sylvanas slowly destroyed and everyone growing sick of her

[young latch]

christie seemed happy and enthusiastic about the book. I'm probably going to buy it. I haven't read her work before though.

the only thing of hers i've read was the lady and child myth in the folklore book

[uncut vault]

well Id hope she's enthusiastic about her own book 😛

I just hope its more along the lines of the Arthas novel like theyve said

and less like War Crimes/Before the Storm

she's a much stronger writer when she can expand existing plot with prose and internal monologue than creating her own plotlines and character dynamics

[young latch]

the above poster was insintuating she wasn't happy about writing it but I was just saying that didn't seem like the case to me 😛

[subtle oar]

Why less like War Crimes? It was a great book

[uncut vault]

War Crimes has... a lot of issues lol

not the least of which its conclusion being "everyone is at fault, including the victims of garrosh" when she directly wrote the story to be an allegory for the Nuremburg trials

it definitely has good bits

but a lot of really wonky stuff and not a lot of cohesion

[young latch]

i'd hope the bombing of a military fort wouldn't be treated like the nuremburg trials

[uncut vault]

also wonky bits like saying garrosh is responsible for the dragonmaw subjugating Alexstrasza in Day of the Dragon and the second war, despite him being on another planet and allying with the dragonmaw who killed those people lol

but that Alexstrasza forgives all of them anyways for the forced breeding and death of her mate

[young latch]

I think it's weird to me that dragons are bred at all in this universe when they have the intelligence of humans

[subtle oar]

That wasn't what was insinuated. Tyrande why trying to put all Orcs, not just Garrosh, on Trial.

Alexstraza took on shit on that attempt because she is the Life-Binder

She showed incredible strength, forgiving those who enslaved her.

[uncut vault]

Having a female character forgive her slavers/rapists is a really atrociously horrible plot beat to write lol

[subtle oar]

Yikes.

[uncut vault]

WoW has a major issue of writing female characters in a binary of soft and forgiving vs ‘irrational’ and emotional

There’s a reason they avoided having Arthas actually show up this xpac lol

[young latch]

i think arthas not showing up was a good choice and they basically said he wouldn't be here in an interview

[young latch]

you forgot the third option which is proud warrior race chick who doesn't really ever do anything

[cunning fossil]

Skype you gotta admit this is a pretty accurate representation of many prominent female leads

Like you would be legitimately wrong to think this isn't it

[subtle oar]

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-thats-like-your-opinion-man-gif-15076479

[rain cave]

While I'm not wholly against the current plot

I will say that sylvanas monologuing over arthas soul fragment was a bit weird

Jaina gets a line

Idk if uther even says anything

It's a sad ending for what remained of arthas though I'm glad it's done and the line has been drawn

But sylvanas hogged the screen a bit lol

Especially because all she does for a bit is "me me me"

[young latch]

I’m kind of okay with it still since the right time for it was ICC 13 years ago and it just git forgotten about.

More lines from jaina were what I’d add. Uther already said his piece in his quest line:

[strange falcon]

https://twitter.com/dreadfuldruid/status/1500195732183130116

faedoryn (sacred milk) (@dreadfuldruid)

silly funny that all the "wow leaks" abruptly stopped when we didnt get an xpac announcement when we expected one lolololol

Twitter · Mar 5, 2022, 7:45 PM

[cunning fossil]

I don't see the coorelation

[lime venture]

what

[tepid fiber]

Troll sperging out in multiple channels

[young latch]

cancelled by buttercup from the powerpuff girls

[ancient jasper]

<@&299347348847329281> Any way we can do something about this clown?

[west relic]

They've already been banned.

[ancient jasper]

Ah

Thanks!

[west relic]

@elder otter purge isn't working across all channels today, apparently.

[elder otter]

I used Discord's built-in purge, it's all gone now.

[balmy gate]

Next expansion to be announced April 19th. May the speculation reignite.

April 19 – Raid Finder Wing 4: The Grand Design (The Jailer) becomes available.
Turns out they did want to wait for LFR to be fully released.

[deep pawn]

so 10 months after announcement would be February

Watch it be March to line up with the buyout

[upper pasture]

the buyout is closing in june?

[deep pawn]

Last I heard was March next year?

[upper pasture]

only thing i ever saw was june 2023 fiscal year yada yada

either way rejoice more stuff is coming

[glass flicker]

Let's hope 10.0 is good. It exceeds single digits, unlike Bobby's IQ.

[upper pasture]

lol

[subtle oar]

Source? Where'd they'd announce they are waiting tol then?

[upper pasture]

blue post on wowhead?

[glass flicker]

Check latest news.

[upper pasture]

oh, they want Blizz to outright say they are waiting for LFR jailer

[deep pawn]

Honestly feels too late, but meh. That's this entire damn expansion

[glass flicker]

By their logic, LFR means everyone did it.

[upper pasture]

yup i know

[deep pawn]

Not that we won't just watch the wowhead post tomorrow

[upper pasture]

so? there's people out there that want to experience it in game?

[deep pawn]

One day they'll realize gating lfr won't actually push people into normal

[glass flicker]

WoW would be better both without LFR and mythic.

But they have to stroke egos somehow.

[cosmic beacon]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23783584/save-the-date-the-future-of-warcraft

[subtle oar]

Lol

Legit waiting tol April. Way to kill all hype for the next xpac

[deep pawn]

After experiencing other games I don't think I could ever go back to raiding unless I can pick whatever order I wanted to do bosses in after my first time clearing.

[dense plover]

April 19th. Isn’t that around right after the last LFR wing?

So I was right?

[deep pawn]

same day

question is if they wait for the 9.2.5 ptr that long too

[dense plover]

Probably the week after

For convenience

[cunning fossil]

NEW EXPAC?????

[deep pawn]

except 9.2.5 is on the vendor already

[cunning fossil]

Wait

April the 19th

Well aight

Guess we gotta wait another month

Which is honestly guchi

[subtle oar]

This means no new xpac release until 2023... yikes

[deep pawn]

it'll be the first time since 2004 that Acti-Blizz doesn't have a big WoW thing in an even year.

[cunning fossil]

More time is better than a rushed piece of garbage.
.this is not a yikes

WoW can't take a third failure Ina. Row

They need a Legion level expac
Arguably one that is BEYOND Legion

Just because BFA and Shadow lands have been the worst 4 years for modern wow

Consecutively I might add

[strange falcon]

Definitely,
A "ok" or even "good" expac won't really cut it, if they want to get out of the danger of being put on life support.
"Needs to knock it out of the park" as they say

[cunning fossil]

Yeah

[cunning fossil]

I find it interesting that they marked it the future of Warcraft.

Ngl I don't see a point in rolling Hearthstone into it as well since... they dropped the name "Heroes of Warcraft" while ago

I suppose it's a marketing reason :0

[subtle oar]

Def a yikes. I want out of this garbage. Having us stay in Slands longer than normal with less content. The new xpac should have already been announced and x.2.5 should be on ptr this month.

[deep pawn]

Should but clearly it's a dumpster fire at blizzard still so we'll see

[strange falcon]

They're the same people that could only manage 2 back to back 8 month content droughts, a 12 month content drought is par for the course

[subtle oar]

I forsee 14 months

[strange falcon]

Plus, unlike a certain hardened section of the playerbase, we have the freedom to play other games and not be stuck playing 9.2 for a full year

[subtle oar]

And an alpha and beta that will go ignored

[strange falcon]

Time will reveal all truths, they either get it all right or they fail at kickstarting the game out of the ditch its in

[balmy gate]

Yes, sir. 🍪 's for you!

[subtle oar]

It's in a deep abyss

[strange falcon]

Even if blizzard were to put the game on full lifesupport, no more content,
I still am confident there's at least 1 or 2k ""people"" that would be unable to unsub until they shut down the servers for good

The number is probably much higher

[deep pawn]

eq still runs

[cunning fossil]

Rushing into a new expac quickly isn't gonna make the future any better. They NEED to make it right or else you won't be playing wow AT ALL.

"Should have" means nothing. We should have gotten a lot of things. We didn't. That's tough.

[strange falcon]

A crapton of mmos still run, though if you know the name "gamigo" you know its synonymous with "mmo graveyard"

Something "still running" doesnt necessarily mean its a good thing

[subtle oar]

There is a delicate balance you have to maintain with an mmo. Delaying too long kills your game. Asking players to take 12 more months on this xpac is far too much to ask after how they treated us for years plus them being a complete dumpster fire of a company.

[glass flicker]

WoW is the perfect MMO to play if you don't want to play and MMO.

[deep pawn]

Well EQ has stayed away from Gamigo

They actually recently updated to 64 bit

[deep pawn]

Also of note, 14's 6.1 patch is mid April

[strange falcon]

I dont think its necessarily intentional.....this time.
As blizzard is announcing expac when the last lfr wing releases

Which means the jailer cinematic plays heavily into next expac

[deep pawn]

a lot of pressure to put on an 83 second cinematic

[subtle oar]

You mean the one we get tomorrow?

[strange falcon]

Ye

[subtle oar]

Cx

[urban spire]

yeah and expac reveal won't do too much against a patch. I don't think that's intentional.

A reveal can't compete with a content drop because it isn't a content drop. The only thing it can do is maybe steal a little thunder and generate hype for pre-orders, but it's not really gonna bring any players in imo.

If they did 9.2.5 by then, maybe? But I can't see 9.2.5 being out that quickly

[glass flicker]

What would 9.2.5 even bring to the table?

[urban spire]

On another note, maybe they're doing something fairly big for the 10.0 pre-patch to tie us over for the expansion release

cross faction is 9.2.5

[glass flicker]

A lot of bug fixes and cross faction.

[urban spire]

and generally it brings QoL and sometimes epilogue content

[glass flicker]

I can't be the only one who the deer rare ran away from.

[urban spire]

maybe they'll have some allied races

[glass flicker]

It has a charge ability that goes infinitely. Fun.

[urban spire]

that one "leak" that talked about a timewalking revamp that made it a continuous thing with vendors that sold transmog for timewarped badges sounds so cool

definitely something that should inspire blizz to do an actual revamp

and make it year round not weekly rotations once every 6 weeks

But you know what's crazy

I saw all the stuff about bungie vaulting content

and I was like "all mmos do that right? all the old content becomes irrelevant and it's not worth doing except for transmog"

[glass flicker]

I think the Great Vault should award more than one item.

[urban spire]

I didn't realize they actually just deleted the content

[upper pasture]

it's like every 2-3 weeks now.

[urban spire]

Ah sorry

[upper pasture]

ngl, i would like it to be up every week and just change what expansion is up

[glass flicker]

Here's an idea for timewalk. Put all vendors in the Caverns of Time.

I do have to wonder if the Infinite Dragonflight or at least the Bronze one know we are the MAW WALKERS, CHAMPIONS OF AZEROTH.

[merry tusk]

Great vault made me lose interest in m+ faster than anything else ever has.

Add to that how little loot you get from actually running keys and it's double bad

Way too much grind for way too little reward

[glass flicker]

Next week will be better, I think.

You can actually get gear from dungeons, with the one extra reward.

And perhaps the weekly will award a heroic item, or a guaranteed tier piece.

Pls thx Blizzard.

[merry tusk]

It shouldn't take a one week event to make m+ suck less 😄

[deep pawn]

I really have to question blizzard's thought process around adding extra mobs and mechanics to EVERY SINGLE BOSS FIGHT

[cunning fossil]

Gotta have a reason to bring AoE heavy specs, otherwise you're gonna have less spots overall

[austere gazelle]

If they can remove Tazavesh the bugged market while resolving some bugs that'll be great

[dense plover]

well

final cutscene is disappointing

jailer was trying to get ready for the "threat to come"

so its just amplifying the threats further

[glass flicker]

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/t9o2t9/sepulcher_of_the_first_ones_end_cinnematic/

Well, shit.

[dense plover]

yeah it IS shit

how disappointing

the flashbacks of the jailer wouldve actually helped the story if we had gotten them during 9.1

imagine if when we got the sigil of maldraxus and restored the primus' memory he told us what happened and we got a full flashback cutscene instead of the pieces in this one

[glass flicker]

They really trying to make this fucker sympathetic at the very end?

[dense plover]

no

theyre trying to make us worry about whats next

i really do hope we didnt actually defeat nzoth and we go back to azeroth to the dragon isles and shit has hit the fan while we were busy

and that this all ties back to the old gods and void lords

because thats old wow story

[glass flicker]

Or better yet, we tie the loose end Azshara is and that's how we reach the new expansion.

[dense plover]

i mean - thats potentially nzoth

she is bound to him - he made her

and i dont think he is dead

i really dont

[glass flicker]

And maybe Xal'Atath.

Xal'Atath as both the entity, and the dagger.

Where are they?

[dense plover]

old gods/the void see all possibilities - he mustve seen a possibility where - us thinking he was dead, sylvanas went and acted upon the lich king and opened the way to the shadowlands

[glass flicker]

Or maybe he willingly gave up, knowing stronger Old Gods will rise again, and he didn't want to take part in that.

N'zoth was the weakest, after all.

[subtle oar]

The intro cinematic was so cool. The fact is was followed up by that finale...

Man, what a fucking disappointment

[glass flicker]

Shadowlands as a whole. Fucking wasted.

[subtle oar]

They destroyed Warcraft 3 for this

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/pearl-harbor-gif-19475745

To quote Grandmaster Blueberry Ice:

Such wasted potential.

[dense plover]

SUCH DEVASTATION

[subtle oar]

I bet you that the First Ones or the Clockmaker of the universe will be the true big bad

[dense plover]

yeah this is a fucking mess

[deep pawn]

A unified cosmos includes the void, so next enemy isn't the void.

[dense plover]

and this is a great example of how they COULD have made this work

and didnt

[subtle oar]

Yup

[glass flicker]

I'm just disappointed we didn't get any real callbacks to previous events.

[dense plover]

there are pieces of the cutscenes that if they had been their own cutscenes might have made for a better story

why didnt we get a whole jailer becomes the jailer cutscene?

why didnt the jailer monologue at all?

why did we ONLY find out about him trying to "unite" the cosmos at the very END?

why not in 9.1 or from denathrius?

the fuck?

[glass flicker]

Oh yeah, can we talk about Denathrius?

He's kind of a big fucking elephant of a loose end.

[dense plover]

i mean yeah - but thats good

means dreadlords arent gone

[glass flicker]

And what happens now?

Do we just forgive Sylvanas?

[dense plover]

honestly - we NEED to return to azeroth

[deep pawn]

I'm pretty sure the Jailer was going to wipe the slate clean and rewrite reality as just a single force, but don't say that to Taliesin haha

[glass flicker]

"It's okay, Sylvie. You can come back to Azeroth with us."

[dense plover]

and either sylvanas needs to stay in the shadowlands until we need her help ala Illidan, or she needs to be imprisoned

[glass flicker]

Let her chill in Revendreth as a ghost.

No body, no will to fight back.

[dense plover]

so much potential with this expac totally wasted

[deep pawn]

I shouldn't be disappointed or a bit angry, but after experience real story telling told in a game, I'm just really frustrated is the right word?

[dense plover]

i hope the next one is better

[deep pawn]

This story has potential, this world is amazing

[dense plover]

definitely

[deep pawn]

but they just do not use it at all and rely on the same stupid plot they've used over and over

[dense plover]

its frustrating because we had better ideas than the garbage they came up with

[deep pawn]

This is what Arthas wanted to do

This is what N'zoth wanted to do

[dense plover]

and then the final cinematics show us they HAD the ideas and just waited to use them until the end

[deep pawn]

Now it's what Zovaal wanted to do

[dense plover]

well

nzoth wanted to consume azeroth actually

make her a void titan

[glass flicker]

Let's just hope we get less books and more game.

Danuser pls.

[dense plover]

they need to double the number of cinematics

flat out

[glass flicker]

Triple it.

[deep pawn]

N'zoth wanted everyone to join the void team to fight against something bigger, presuming it's the same threat Zovaal saw

Team void seems to have more open communications

[dense plover]

uh - i dont think thats true - i think thats a lie

nzoth just lies

thats sorta his thing

im pretty sure nzoth wanted us to do what we did to benefit him

so i think us going to the shadowlands still falls into that plan

in which case i hope we go back to azeroth and that storyline isnt forgotten

[deep pawn]

N'zoth still serves something bigger than him.

in terms of the cosmos, N'zoth is pretty small potatoes. He was basically saying, "Please take the easy route here, I'll give you massive power"

[glass flicker]

I think we tied N'zoth's plot up, and we will get more Xal'Atath because Danuser likes writing for female characters more.

[deep pawn]

N'zoth is more on the level of say Lady Moonberry in Ardenweald than an Eternal One

[glass flicker]

[Moonberry Juice]

[haughty hound]

Moonberry Juice - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=1645/moonberry-juice - PTR 9.2.0

Moonberry Juice

PTR 9.2.0

[dense plover]

i dont think we did

why would nzoth let us have the dagger if it could kill him?

i think nzoth is inside the dagger

[deep pawn]

10.0 is us making friends with the void. 😛

[glass flicker]

Whatever even happened to the dagger?

It looked like it exploded after Wrathion stabby stabbed.

[dense plover]

we dont know

we know that magni had it

and then it vanished

so it probably was taken by xalatath

and again - nzoth is probably inside it

no way nzoth would give us the thing to kill him if he didnt want us to have it

[strange falcon]

Sums up entirety of shadowlands lore

[subtle oar]

Nah

[subtle oar]

Yes

[strange falcon]

Im sure taliesin will try his best to spin this cinematic as "it was actually good guys, you just arent 5head enough" like he did the anduin one 😂

[deep pawn]

He got angry that some of us believe that the Jailer was going to destroy everything and start over.

"You didn't hear what they said!" Yeah, rewrite reality, design was flawed, divided cosmos won't survive

eternity's end

I just don't see a simple "brainwashing" was the big goal

[plain violet]

Even to help us "survive" the Jailer would have been a very bad leader.

[terse patrol]

It never seems to occur to these bad guys that “hey, maybe we should ask the other cosmic forces to team up.”

[plain violet]

That's why they are bad guys!

They never have the social skills, nor the good solution.

[strange falcon]

So, if the reason they're announcing the expac on the 19th of april because the last wing of lfr opens then
(Implying jailer cinematic is crucial to next expac)
Then say goodbye to whoever thought we'd have a "back to basics" expac,
We going even more cosmic scope than shadowlands 😂

[deep pawn]

Could still be dragons

but we have to empower them and Azeroth to get the other forces on our side or something

to prep for 10.3 where we take the fight to the other cosmos

oh, more proof he wanted to kill everything

[strange falcon]

More azerite power woo, what's it gonna be this time, heart of azeroth 2.0,
Gotta help the baby dragons get out of the egg to get currency to empower azeroth

[deep pawn]

"ERADICATE THIS FLAWED REALITY"

Bruh, you don't eradicate by slapping some chains on

[deep pawn]

well first we gotta get eggs happening again haha

All dragons are currently sterile

[strange falcon]

"Help the dragons get it up, the worldquest"

Incredible engaging content

[crimson jasper]

so ehm, l saw the cinematic... is it seriously "tldr there's an even more evil evil dude"?

or did l get the wrong impression, at work so can't really analyze too much

[subtle oar]

Yes

[glass flicker]

It's still mind-boggling how upset Zovaal looked in that cinematic.

He almost started to cry.

[crimson jasper]

huh

well

[glass flicker]

I guess there's a character with more crybaby potential than Anduin.

[crimson jasper]

if that isn't the most cliche and underwhelming storyline l have ever seen

and this was the BIG thing we worked towards since Wc3?

the 5d chess guy that was behind everything, set up all the things

Super big bad

nope guess he's a good guy and wanted to safe us from the ACTUAL big bad????

[deep pawn]

The general response to this is "That's it?"

[glass flicker]

WoW's Grim Reaper, the supposed Bald Badass. A crybaby who wants to reset everything with the power of the First Ones.

[crimson jasper]

COME TF ON BLIZZ

[glass flicker]

Indeed.

[crimson jasper]

my senile grandma could write a better fkn story

[deep pawn]

I just don't think the writers care

They're basically barely putting something up to justify the art and raid designs

[crimson jasper]

l am so mad

[glass flicker]

Less books, more game please.

And Danuser. Mate, for fuck's sake, start caring about character driven plots with actual characters, not these doppelgangers nobody can bother to give a shit or a fuck about.

I'm not mad, and I'm not even disappointed. I expected another underwhelming ending after N'zoth. But why so bad?

[dense plover]

Tbf, that’s not danuser. That’s Warcraft. It’s never been a character driven plot

[glass flicker]

Must you set up such astronomically large threats that even the big bad bald at the end of the raid fears it?

[dense plover]

Warcraft has always been about the big bad

They don’t know how to do anything else

They need to learn

[deep pawn]

I just want to care. Make me feel involved

They literally now have the raid happen whether you participate or not

[glass flicker]

How does a gnome with a pitchfork stand up to Grim Bald Reaper?

[dense plover]

Consequences of the bosses actions would help

And so would knowing their motivations

[deep pawn]

I'm guessing canonically Sylvanas, Jaina, and Uther freed anduin

[glass flicker]

Taelia was the one questing in Kul Tiras canonically.

I guess she was the one fighting N'zoth, too, huh?

[deep pawn]

At this point tough shit to anyone who doesn't want to be the hero. It's hamstringing the story

[glass flicker]

It's not just being the hero that's the problem.

It's power level consistency.

[strange falcon]

😂

[crimson jasper]

l have no words

l expected it to be underwhelming

it's shadowlands afterall

[glass flicker]

We fought Titans and the literal Grim Reaper, but a handful of boars can kill us next expansion.

[crimson jasper]

but damn it is even WORSE

[deep pawn]

No, there's absolutely a contingent of players who say anything that makes them actually deal with world ending threats a bad thing

[crimson jasper]

l dont even mind that, it's gameplay whatever

[crimson jasper]

this l mean

but Christ

[glass flicker]

At this point, I just want the Mawsworn Strikers in Endless Sands to have a one shot ability.

[crimson jasper]

blizz send me a sheet of paper

[glass flicker]

They do say "Kneel, Maw Walker"

[crimson jasper]

l write you a better story

[glass flicker]

If you kneel, let them just one shot you and be done with it.

[crimson jasper]

fkn ERP in goldshire has better plot

[glass flicker]

YES.

"I'm not actually a human. I'm a worgen."

"But I'm not actually a worgen. I'm a demon."

"But I'm not actually a demon. I'm logging out."

This is a better plot than Shadowlands has been.

[subtle oar]

XDDDDDD

[queen path]

What the actual fuck is this cinematic

[glass flicker]

I don't know, man. It upsets me, too.

[queen path]

[crimson jasper]

this seems to sum up everyone's reaction

[glass flicker]

Metzen, please come back and write WoW again.

Even when your lore was stupid, it still made a grain of sense more than this.

[queen path]

Jailers it's the Thanos but without snapping the fingers -_-

[glass flicker]

No.

Don't compare Zovaal to Thanos.

Infinity War was literally Thanos' movie.

[crimson jasper]

This is the Thanos at home at best

[glass flicker]

Zovaal got no screentime.

[queen path]

Yeah you are right kskkkss

5min screentime in 2 years

[glass flicker]

And a boss fight I hear is not very good.

I should trust Bellular more often. When he said he knew Zovaal would be boring due to a single line of dialogue, I should have believed him.

"Pitiful mortal."

[crimson jasper]

Also btw as per usual, it again is a OHHH MYSTERY MYSTERY cliffhanger, to try and bait interest

fuck off blizz

[queen path]

Oh man again something it's coming

Yeah i know

[glass flicker]

BfA 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[strange falcon]

Twist ending

[queen path]

Light vs void? I just can't imagine nothing away shadow lands powers

[glass flicker]

Forge of Souls digs into Azeroth and releases Azerite, Magni goes ape shit.

[strange falcon]

Netflix adaptation of thanos

[queen path]

Hahahahhaha

Yeahs

Fhhdushshshs

[uncut lintel]

i came here to be that one person to say, both cinamatics of the jailer sucks

[deep pawn]

I'd almost rather it be us subduing light and void back to back to fight the greater cosmic threat, but ugh

[glass flicker]

Yes.

We know.

[uncut lintel]

u kno?

[simple patrol]

um, I kinda liked the cinematic tbh lol