do you work for blizz? have you seen all the feedback they got during alpha?
#beta-ptr-spoilers
upper pasture
dense plover
I WAS ON THE ALPHA FORUMS
i played the alpha
there was no such feedback
thats the only place to provide feedback during alpha
there is no ingame feedback tool
upper pasture
they took that out?
dense plover
they changed it because it was never going to be what they showed us
dense plover
they took that out?
there is only bug reporting and "im confused" during alpha and beta
the feedback tool is intentionally disabled
instead they link to the feedback forums
where no one complained that torghast wasnt fun af
upper pasture
strange
dense plover
its because what they put on alpha was not the final design
they were already WAY ahead on a different design
which they ended up completely redoing
because originally it was going to be endless runs locked behind keys you could get randomly playing maw content
so if you were a more casual player and werent as good at the game, you got to do less torghast
so they totally redesigned it
but in the process they nerfed the OP powers and made mobs MUCH harder
9.1.5 fixed a LOT of that
and 9.2 is making more changes
upper pasture
were getting more than just boss rush in 9.2?
dense plover
but its never going to be as fun as it was to just blast through and play 6 hours of torghast without realizing how much time you spent
dense plover
were getting more than just boss rush in 9.2?
pretty sure there are new floors
and 2 new wings?
i dont remember
upper pasture
oh yeah new floors lol
i forgot about more floors, i didnt know where getting new wings too
dense plover
i might be wrong
might just be boss rush
which isnt bad
more optional content for loot is always good
uncut lintel
upper pasture
yeah i just thought it was more floors and the new "wing" was just boss rush
oh i guess another thing i dislike about torghast leveling is no loot
dense plover
oh i guess another thing i dislike about torghast leveling is no loot
that was also a thing in alpha
it was glitchy but it WAS a thing
upper pasture
im sad about that
dense plover
it would be nice to make it so completing a run while leveling gives like - basic gear
its not like it would break anything
upper pasture
even if its a few itmlvls lower than average
dense plover
but it would also be nice to be able to run torghast over and over between 50 and 60
and like - actually level
upper pasture
yeah, they could buff the completion exp or something. i don't disagree there but its not impossible to do just boring
dense plover
it wouldnt be boring if they gave you gear and didnt limit you to 2 wings a week (even if that limit was brought back at max level)
cunning fossil
If they had Gear in it, it would make the top raiders complain and god knows we can
can't have that
upper pasture
not endgame gear or even level 60 gear just gear while leveling
cunning fossil
Oh that'd be ok
(Also people are SEETHING at the announcement lmao. Fucking losers)
(Mark of the Degrading Western Society"
upper pasture
its weird cause it changes nothing about how the game is played in the world
cunning fossil
That's what someone called it lmao. Because you can be an orc and a human in the same group.
INsane
upper pasture
LOL
dense plover
its weird cause it changes nothing about how the game is played in the world
this is exactly why im okay with it
it would be different if world pvp or world content could suddenly have you screwed by a member of your own faction
upper pasture
who knows maybe some day soon you actually choose your faction instead of being stuck based off your race
upper pasture
Just came back from reading comments from fan groups and actual blizzard post and it’s laughable how many people are upset about the “factions working together is unrealistic”
solid vapor
Just came back from reading comments from fan groups and actual blizzard post an...
This is a accurate summary of the lore
deep pawn
factions were dead in Legion
solid vapor
They aren’t dead
But they aren’t the point of the game
And quite frankly it doesn’t make a good thing forceing everyone to play with only their faction because they wanted to play a dwarf or a orc
deep pawn
they are. They were a rotting rump mechanic of the game that they dragged out cause boomers refused to change.
cunning fossil
Just came back from reading comments from fan groups and actual blizzard post an...
lel
solid vapor
HOW DARE YOU GIVE THE ABILITY TO PLAY PEOPLE DESPITE FACTION AND THERE FOR INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF CONTENT BEING PLAYED AND POTENTIAL TO MAKE NEW FRIENDS!
deep pawn
nah... gotta keep the virtual racism. Watch some people automatically flag the "No other faction" for their parties
cunning fossil
Twitter
solid vapor
You can do that
cunning fossil
A possibility : o
solid vapor
In the announcement they said you can make a post one factions only as a option
But who would honestly do that
If people are dicks it isn’t the system fault
cunning fossil
Oh they'd do that because they're entitled and wierd
deep pawn
virtual racism
cunning fossil
yeah
plain violet
Kyle is right. Virtual racism is strong when people want a reason to discriminate.
solid vapor
I guess?
Shitty people will find to be shitty.
Like seeing virtual racism is sad
To think a balding age man behind that character is doing that
deep pawn
that could be 15-100, narrow it down haha
subtle oar
Cross-faction grouping is a gameplay change which probably won't be acknowledged in the story, but the factions are currently in an armistice anyway.
This settles all my nerves and makes me like the Cross Faction stuff more
finite zodiac
https://twitter.com/devolore/status/1488267856223498240?s=20&t=ftOSyt6oRDxX_6plo...
How are they going to consider cross faction guilds without having cross server guilds first?
that would be so much better of a solution
strange falcon
`Cross-faction grouping is a gameplay change which probably won't be acknowledge...
You had nerves for this?
urban spire
that would be so much better of a solution
because they already have cross server guilds for servers that are connected I think
and cross server is far different than cross faction
There is a lot to do on the back end and ideologically when it comes to cross server stuff, especially guilds
I dont think asmon is a culprit of virtual racism
also he is highly supportive of cross faction
i'm just really impressed and surprised that cross faction is coming in a .5 patch and not in the next expansion
that's super awesome. I wouldn't be surprised if cross faction guilds come in 10.0 though or 10.0.5
I also would like to see at least timewalking receive random queues with horde+ally since that feels a bit different than random grp content at end game or in the current expac
glass flicker
Maybe just remove faction restrictions entirely. Make every race use the Pandaren format, and let them pick what faction to fight for.
In PvP scenarios, that is.
glass flicker
Yeah, but not in 9.2.5
Hordies can queue with Allies for rated in 9.2.5. Apparently.
I think Mercenary Mode may be a thing of the past. Or maybe, kept for unrated PvP.
solid vapor
Maybe just remove faction restrictions entirely. Make every race use the Pandare...
I say
Keep the horde and alliance separate
BUT
Don’t allow it to limit who you can play with
solid vapor
I also would like to see at least timewalking receive random queues with horde+a...
Maybe. I can actually see why they didn’t. Might not have too. With this change alone so many will roll alliance since they aren’t limited In content
Hell
Fuck the horde
Alliance was better
deep pawn
I bet 10.0 removes most barriers remaining
cunning fossil
10.0 has to be a slam dunk if they wanna make a U-turn
glass flicker
Or give us a more grounded expansion back on Azeroth, about learning about Titan facilities and the world that's around us, rather than killing every bear we see for their ass.
I like killing quests. They're easy. But I also like a story.
nocturne totem
I'm glad they are adding this cross faction capability but I hope they go one step further with guilds. I really want to be an Alliance race but with my guild still Horde it is still out of the question.
glass flicker
I just wish every race could speak common. There's no reason for blood elves to speak orcish, or undead not to speak common when they were humans in life.
Sure, we have a potion for that. Is it really a fix?
You'll only understand the other faction in party chat, which could make some add-ons that say some things in /say chat harder to decipher.
Like, "This cast is on me" or "stack on me"
So, make sure you carry them potions.
nocturne totem
Blizz doesn't need to code around addons. Those are player choices
glass flicker
We'll see. I just wanted to vent a little.
cunning fossil
I'm glad they are adding this cross faction capability but I hope they go one st...
Tbf you can organize raids in communities
nocturne totem
The issuea come up with guild achievements and mats and pooling of resources.
Are they adding in trading between factions?
deep pawn
gear yes, but not anything esle
opaque pewter
This first iteration seems to work exactly like cross-server raiding
uncut lintel
9.2 wen
austere gazelle
royal coral
In 3 weeks
young latch
Cross faction play for 9.2.5 is the most exciting wow news I've seen in maybe a year.
ancient jasper
Yep. I'm super glad to see that it's being met with a pretty large majority of support from people who have seen it so far.
left arch
What’s happening in the update? I’ve been so behind news and stuff
ancient jasper
In the Cross Faction update all we know of is just that for now. We don't know anything else about 9.2.5 yet
silk cape
You really have to wait 8 weeks before you can create own tier?
upper pasture
yup and even then you can make only one piece per charge and they said youll get a charge slowly at first (im guess one a week or so) until later in the patch youll get a charge every day or so
subtle oar
Crafting, raid and vault?
M+ and PvP aswell
solid vapor
Does the pvp versions come with pvp stat?
What was it
Rev, res, idk I haven’t played since 9.0
upper pasture
vers is the pvp stat
solid vapor
That
Hope it would come with that
Oh reading, it has set stats
That actually isn’t a bad thing
Aren’t the tier sets bonus really good?
deep pawn
No, tier is tier. The stats are the same no matter the source
The vault has a chance to be tier for m+ and pvp. Other than that your sources are raiding or crafting later on.
solid vapor
No, tier is tier. The stats are the same no matter the source
That’s what I said
The actual effects
solid vapor
How are the tier sets?
left arch
In the Cross Faction update all we know of is just that for now. We don't know a...
wait like horde and alliance?
how is that going to work
ancient jasper
You'll be able to form Premade Groups to Raid/M+/PvP with them
ancient jasper
For now, yes. They talked about possibly doing Cross Faction Guilds and whatnot depending on how well it is received
So far it's been received extremely well
left arch
do you think theyll ever make it to where the races can be the opposing faction? kinda like the pandas
ancient jasper
Hard to say, honestly. I suppose it really does all depend on how well this works out
dense plover
its unlikely
the story doesnt really allow for it
its also really hardcoded into the game
even quests that are the same for both factions exist as a horde and alliance version
its why you cant quest together with this change
opaque pewter
Going forward, it is likely that future stuff will take that in consideration. I imagine that the Jaina BFA cross-raid inability situation will be avoided
urban spire
yeah I dont think you'll be able to be other factions, but I dont think that matters as much if they remove most if not all restrictions for playing with horde/alliance
dense plover
i think they will always have some layers
some stories only make sense for each faction
and if you pick a certain race/faction, you might not want to be randomly shoved into a group with someone from the opposite
but otherwise, i dont think the restrictions need to be ever-present
uncut vault
Ideally, theyll stick with what they said in the post and make it about pride in your faction going forward
dense plover
^
uncut vault
rather than pride in hating the other one
dense plover
absolutely
i just dont want them to fully remove the barrier
im okay with it being changed from a castle wall to a small fence
i just dont want it torn down
uncut vault
If I had a time machine to rewrite stuff to fit that better, I'd have just cut the faction war entirely from BfA and made the faction elements about simply rebuilding in the wake of legion, finding new allies, and having the sense in the wake of MoP to not go to war over stuff like Silithus, and instead band together quicker against Azshara
but alas, I dont 😛
So I hope that's what the status quo becomes going forward, at least
not unified as one, but at a point where the main governments of each faction put themselves in a place where they have less centralized power, and can recognize when they need to work together easier
Which chances are, we'll get the Alliance equivalent of what the Horde got at the end of BfA some time soon
opaque pewter
You could put taxes on AH and services if you visit other faction cities, similar to RL to incentivize spending more time on your place or have a visa system. It could be interesting
Regarding faction mixing, while I understand that force changing the player one to another due to storyline is going to cause too much backlash, I would like to see NPC that have decided to change home, similar to permanent residency in another country (though they will never be a majority of)
More to the point, I'm interested to see more of Saffy and Grizek's kind of situation turned for the better in the new setting
spice sleet
how is fury warrior looking for pvp in 9.2?
urban spire
I think the key thing I like the most about them changing their stance on the barrier and saying they did it due to player feedback, is the fact that it’s a fairly large thing for them to undertake and change
So that gives me hope that they will continue doing that, within reason, because that means they’ll be more likely to listen to us about big systems or changes we would want more in the future
(Player housing player housing player housing)
cosmic beacon
Fury will never compete in pvp for the sole reason arms exists
Even if it does good damage it lacks def stance and die by the sword
young latch
If I had a time machine to rewrite stuff to fit that better, I'd have just cut t...
this would have been a fun expansion to play because wow focusing on creation rather than literally every single memorable thing in the world getting wrecked is an important mood shift to balance
I think "for the horde" should be "for the horde," not "fixate on being anti alliance."
And I like the idea of horde vs. alliance being a philosophical difference rather than a racial difference.
All of the elves and pandas are kind of there already thematically.
(Pandaria was a good expansion and it's baffling that none of the lessons in it were reapplied to BFA.)
But then again I think pretty much everybody agrees that BFA is the weird outlier that doesn't make a whole lot of sense compared what was happening for the rest of the series.
subtle oar
I generally prefer the Horde v Alliance conflict. It's one of the major pillars I love about WoW. If we lost the general tension, conflict and hatreds, I'd be saddened greatly. The leaders can hold any opinions they want, but there is no way the people below them will ever forgive so easily.
glass flicker
I see it as "For Azeroth, but don't destroy our cities, or we will destroy you and make your leaders raid bosses."
If I were to write WoW's plot, I'd bring the faction inbalance and racial debates front and center. For example, tauren aren't the most fond of undead. Sylvanas' departure would surely spark some conflicts with the Forsaken. Where are your allegiances, now? What does Calia think of all this, and will Tyrande chill the hell down? Find out in the next episode of Dragon Isles Z.
dense plover
idk
didnt tauren push for the undead to join the horde?
theyre big fans of second chances
they did
glass flicker
Still aren't the fondest of letting them in the caves of Thunder Bluff.
dense plover
thats more about old inaccuracies that havent been fixed
the tauren are the reason the forsaken joined the horde
its one of those things where when people say "why cant tauren join the alliance" i just know they dont know any of their lore
the tauren owe their continued existence to the horde
the orcs saved them from the centaurs
glass flicker
And all because a deer man decided to fuck an elemental.
dense plover
and in exchange the tauren have gathered the favor of several other races to join up with the horde
glass flicker
The Tauren are honestly one of the most honest and respectful races on Azeroth.
Even more than Draenei.
The only instances of evil tauren we've had were the Bloodtotem and the Runetotem.
Draenei though? Pretty much anywhere you can see Eredar.
dense plover
both of those clans have neat stories too
bloodtotem didnt used to be evil
thats a recent change with legion
glass flicker
I liked the callback to Gul'dan with the Bloodtotems.
"And what must we give in return?"
"Everything!"
dense plover
and i think you meant grimtotem not runetotem
glass flicker
Oh, yeah. Quick typing, sometimes mishaps... Er... Happen.
dense plover
both exist
its just the grimtotem are the vicious ones
and technically only half of them
half of them joined the horde, the other half followed magatha
dense plover
because she wanted power
she killed her own husband to become the leader of her clan
at least thats the story there - they say she became leader after an 'accident'
so its implied she killed her husband to become clan leader
she hated cairne because he joined the horde, because he was a pacifist and because she wanted power
the grimtotem believe all other races are inferior, they also believe in serious combat stuff which is antithetical to what cairne wanted
if garrosh's axe hadnt been poisoned by magatha, theres a decent chance that he couldve won in which case the horde wouldnt have gone all war crazy, which is something the grimtotem really wanted
glass flicker
Didn't she call Cairne a coward who pats himself on the back?
dense plover
dont know the details exactly
but generally speaking most tauren want peace
the grimtotem do not
glass flicker
Also, I wish Gorehowl HD dropped from Sanctum of Domination.
Give the Garrosh stuff closure.
And give those Mag'har rip-offs a newer Axe.
I'll be blunt. I liked Garrosh's look without the Tusks of Mannoroth more.
He looked very odd, since he wears no gloves.
dense plover
i mean, gorehowl is still somewhere out in the world
he didnt take it with him to the afterlife
glass flicker
I think Thrall left it in Nagrand, and Prince Malchezar got it in Karazhan somehow.
Maybe Grom arrived in Azeroth with it?
Time loopers.
dense plover
grommash had it in alt draenor maybe
because grommash has it when we go back to the future for the maghar
so its probably still on alt draenor
or light-forged alt-garrosh has it
glass flicker
Gul'dan threw Gorehowl at Grom's feet to taunt him.
dense plover
or it was taken following mop
glass flicker
In the Kil'rogg cinematic.
dense plover
and the one garrosh and grom had in warlords is the one from alt draenor
in which case its still SOMEWHERE on azeroth
glass flicker
Wait wait wait.
dense plover
the only reason they didnt use it in legion is because they didnt want to use a horde weapon
glass flicker
Didn't Garrosh leave Gorehowl in Pandaria?
dense plover
i think that was a mistake
yes, probably
so there is likely a copy on azeroth
and one on alt-draenor
glass flicker
Jaina points it out before we portal to Dranosh'ar Blockade.
glass flicker
Lor'Themar: He left his weapon behind.
Jaina: Gorehowl!
dense plover
again, it was the likely warrior weapon candidate in legion
but they decided against it
so its still out there
someone has it
glass flicker
Either someone gave Garrosh his axe back, probably his good bronze dragon friend, or he got Gorehowl on AU Draenor.
dense plover
Either someone gave Garrosh his axe back, probably his good bronze dragon friend...
There are probably 2
glass flicker
Then he offs Karazdormu with it.
glass flicker
It's most likely two of them.
But I'm surprised Grom hasn't pointed it out.
If Garrosh arrived with his own one, that is.
dense plover
He probably got it from alt draenor
glass flicker
Grom: That is Gorehowl. How do you have it?
So yeah, Garrosh most likely got it from AU.
Now, I would've been full on Gorehowl being the artifact weapon for Arms.
Imagine. Fight some Sha, get the weapon that feeds off rage and hate like it's Redbull.
Actually, Garrosh absorbed Pride.
Eh, let's say all Sha.
light compass
gorehowl? Hrmm, i would have prefered cenarius axe
glass flicker
Too druidic, maybe?
And Broxigar's reveal is yet to come.
We may see his skeleton and The Axe of Cenarius when we fight Sargeras. For real.
Maybe even see him as a corrupted revenant of fel.
But then again, fel destroys souls.
We don't know what Sargeras did to him.
dense plover
we are missing a whole butt load of legendary weapons
glass flicker
Yuppers.
dense plover
if they decide to pull another legion, with legendary weapons as a focus, they have plenty to pull from
light compass
we found his grave on argus
broxigar is dead...his axe survived, it would be fitting for the arms warrior
glass flicker
Here's an example of a legendary weapon I'd love to see. Do you remember the runeblade you helped the Maldraxxi get?
Yeah, why isn't that an actual item?
And if you're not a Necrolord, all your effort goes unnoticed.
"Hey, can I talk to Draka for a moment?"
"Piss off, Kyrian."
"But... I helped you with your runeblade?"
"Piss off, Maw Walker!"
I can think of a few more legendary items off the top of my head.
You know Quel'Delar?
Liadrin dropped it for a sword and board and now an alliance NPC in Timeless Isle uses it.
We saw the soul of Lana'Thel when searching for the other half of Uther, so that could have some involvement with Quel'Delar.
Take Quel'Delar, show it to Lana'Thel's soul. She goes "You brought that blasted blade before me again."
It'd be pretty neat to have callback weapons. Like we had outlaw rogues with Thunderfury.
solid vapor
Honestly say take a book from xiv. Make a pinnacle weapon for an entire expansion. They are just stat sticks
dense plover
Honestly say take a book from xiv. Make a pinnacle weapon for an entire expansio...
the problem with that is the same problem as in 14, if you miss a patch or join late, youre fucked
solid vapor
Not necessarily
Ultimate weapons are the best ye but they aren’t the be all end all. For most cases, ultimate weapons are only needed for ultimate content, which is xiv peak content
Majority of the time your ultimate is the final weapon you will get
dense plover
but each stage requires current content
and if you miss the patch, you miss the content
and then the queues fucking suck
solid vapor
but each stage requires current content
Which ultimate
dense plover
unless we are talking about different things
i figured you meant the multi-patch weapons
solid vapor
No no
dense plover
that at the end of the expac have special effects
solid vapor
Ultimate weapons are literally the best weapon of the expansions
You can get it patch one
It’s a bit of grind but it’s there for folk who want it
dense plover
It’s a bit of grind but it’s there for folk who want it
can you link an example? IE one of the weapons?
dense plover
yeah
solid vapor
Every expansion has em
solid vapor
You know what. I wouldn’t know that. I’m on storms blood
dense plover
they release them a patch at a time usually starting in .1 or .2
so if you end up joining in .3
the content you need to do for the quests added earlier has no one doing it
solid vapor
It ain’t perfect but honestly would prefer doing a hard grind for a one and done weapon vs every patch dealing with another weapon
dense plover
its not a good system
its a bad system
its a fucking terrible system
WoW's legendary ring grind was better and that SUCKED
solid vapor
I guess I couldn’t see why it’s a bad system since I’m at a point where it wodikgn matter since I’m still behind
The weapons are just grinds for me for glam till endwalker
dense plover
any system that requires you to go into queued content that isnt relevant anymore and that no one is running (specifically when there are 2 raid tiers out and no one is running the first tier) is bad
solid vapor
any system that requires you to go into queued content that isnt relevant anymor...
Really? That’s odd. Would’ve thought how they handle duties would fix that
Grnated I have no idea what the endwalker raids are on
Could be coils all over again
Shoot I still need to do coils
strange falcon
the problem with that is the same problem as in 14, if you miss a patch or join ...
You're not fucked because they're not the best weapon,they are tied for the best weapon ilvl wise,but the raid itself drops same ilvl on savage difficulty,so even if you dont want the grind of going through current expac old patches content
You can get your weapon of a comparable item level from crafting or just the current raid itself(depending on patch)
urban spire
I think it would be cool if artifact weapons got added every expansion after legion, like if they added new ones to the pool
or just new appearances and kept artifacts as a core system
strange falcon
And during current expansion,all the steps of it and even older expacs weapons are populated,
Not to say that they nerf the steps required to get the weapon 2 patches after that step has come out,including
The last patch
I could get the shadowbringers weapon(before EW came out) just fine and the longest queue time i had was 7mins
urban spire
well and I bet you can find people who are willing to help you farm them pretty easily
probably lots of people wanting to help with that
one thing ff14 definitely has over wow is the community imo
strange falcon
Most of them look very shiny(especially the anima weapons from heavensward) so people are always doing them all the time,
Plus the shadowbringers relic zone,bozja is also the best way to level 71 to 80, keeping it populated at all times.
And their system of "to get endgame currency at max level,do roulettes"
Keeps all old content always populated as well so you never have too long of a queue
deep pawn
I'd love relic weapons in WoW
you get a good quality weapon and all it takes is time investment
strange falcon
What about extreme trials,they arent in roulettes,you ask.
They not only drop mounts,but also a reagent to craft a very shiny weapon inspired by that encounters boss
Keeping them always populated as well,
What about current expansion alliance raids,they arent in roulettes either,
Well they all drop 1 token that you can use to upgrade gear to current ilvl,
Keeping them populated as well
strange falcon
probably lots of people wanting to help with that
Even in the case should you find too long of a queue(not many ppl do extreme trials by queuing for it)
You can setup a group in groupfinder
And you'll get people joining,
Wow did have a community,but blizzards own design has fractured and separated them and almost entirely killed the social aspect of the game,
And the shift to a "youre(or rather just the keyholder) punished for failure" design like in m+ has only made people more sour and jaded towards each other, promoting the "elitism" of asking curve/io score for everything
deep pawn
Blizzard needs to spend some time on the non "game" stuff even if it means a tier or two of 6 bosses or so to focus on the social side
young latch
One of the supposed leaks said player housing is coming to the game, which I'm very "eh" about. I guess it could help rp. But I think guild halls would be nicer for that sort of thing.
strange falcon
i mean,i dont see how "player housing" doesnt mean,the entire guild cant have a shared house as well,if they implement that
young latch
It could. I usually assume they mean individual instanced for players though when they say player housing.
zealous basalt
You're not fucked because they're not the best weapon,they are tied for the best...
When the relic weapon relevant to the expac is released at full ilvl is when the raid tier doesn't matter anymore since they are released a lot after such raiding tier is there, the relic weapon only works for full stat priorization and even so at that point high end raiders are done with the raids and have their best weapons, relics are only for glam/story
strange falcon
The resident expert
zealous basalt
Ultimate weapons are the best ye but they aren’t the be all end all. For most ca...
And no, ultimates aren't done with the relic weapon in mind xD, they are good for it, yes, but they aren't required
zealous basalt
Yeah, I meant that, Relic weapons aren't needed for Ult content
Good but not mandatory
opaque pewter
There is not much difference from what I'm reading after all lol
I'm rather preferring the retooling of dungeon to make it more and more challenging. I was always put off by the need of running old content. It gets pretty stale
bronze holly
wonder what place got scrapped from shadowlands that wouldve taken the last spot in oribos
upper pasture
Wut?
proven zealot
I get that LFR Armor isn't exactly always the best looking, but why is it that we always get the green shit in the latest expansions lol
bronze holly
Wut?
where the portals are located that take us to each zone
after zereth mortis is added there is 1 left vacant....wonder if that wouldve been another zone if 9.3 wasnt scrapped
upper pasture
Wasn’t the the sigil for the jailer when he was the arbiter?
deep pawn
this is probably a "two steps forward, one step back" situation, but why why why why make the rep grind grindier?
3 world quests is so much better than 29 rares a day.
uncut vault
It's making the same decision as Korthia, for whatever reason, and continuing the trend of having rares just...not really be rares anymore, but a checklist to just sit and wait for them to spawn to check off loot each day
Ideally they'd just like, have both be worthwhile lol
strange falcon
Ah yes, korthia 2.0
Juuust what people wanted!
strange falcon
this is probably a "two steps forward, one step back" situation, but why why why...
Gotta boost the engagement metrics of ppl logging in every day to farm rares
untold pawn
Hello; if we might have some information handy for the content team, where can I submit screenshots of upcoming changes confirmed by game masters in tickets that haven’t been posted elsewhere?
Do we just DM someone?
onyx thistle
Hello, is there anywhere a source where i can find the exact PTR Build Version ?
uncut vault
Current build is listed on the launcher
cunning fossil
Hope they revert the Rep change. It shouldn't be so taxing.
A grind is a grind but it doesn't need to be a slog.
What we need is Cata Tabards back
Those would be great. At least for PvPers if they changed literally nothing about them
Like people are gonna check out the zone anyways. Making zones a chore only makes them "hate" the zone more. When really, they just just hate the chore.
cunning fossil
this is probably a "two steps forward, one step back" situation, but why why why...
To be fair, they've been so responsive to feedback for the past few months that MAYBE we might see a blue post for reasoning and at least a half revert
strange falcon
To be fair, they've been so responsive to feedback for the past few months that ...
that's hopium if i've ever seen it,
if they actually do revert it,props to blizzard for not being completely stupid and shooting both kneecaps before the race even starts like every single time before it
cunning fossil
that's hopium if i've ever seen it,
if they actually do revert it,props to blizz...
To be fair, they have been doing so recently. Maybe not perfectly but communication has been way wY better since December ish
signal bone
the problem is them thinking this kind of stuff is good in the first place. I just don't understand who they make these changes for. They're ignorable at best, and they don't add any value.
cunning fossil
Oh 100% yeah
I hope they're learning that we don't like forced sloga like this. Don't make things u add to the zone a chore or more of a hassle ro do
There is no point
We'll gladly explore the zone ourselves and look for rares, instead of using an add on to track when all 29 come up to kill them for. Tiny bit of Rep
urban spire
Lol rares haven’t been rare since wod
Back in mop prior to timeless they were rare sure
But I’m pretty sure rares were daily or weekly reset on timeless isle and were not rare
And then wod is when rares were always spawned but just wouldn’t give loot at all times
subtle oar
Lol rares haven’t been rare since wod
I'd say MoP
The Rares in WoD were the start of less importance on them, imo
urban spire
Well I say since wod because from wod and on they weren’t rare
Since mop would imply that since mop they haven’t been rare
Either way my point is that I don’t understand why people are complaining about something that has been a certain way for 8 years
uncut vault
Because it also hasn’t been very fun for eight years? 😛
7.0 got by with it due to world quests as a new system, 7.2 wasn’t a well liked outdoor patch, 7.3 did have actual rares on Argus alongside world quest ones
And BfA and Shadowlands aren’t exactly well received lol
cunning fossil
There's a reason people complain
Even in the most ridiculous arguments, there is a bit of truth or reality (not both)
left arch
To be fair, they've been so responsive to feedback for the past few months that ...
We love positive changes
cunning fossil
We love positive changes
Yes yes aw do
nocturne totem
Either way my point is that I don’t understand why people are complaining about ...
8 years of anguish
young latch
It's making the same decision as Korthia, for whatever reason, and continuing th...
It feels like they want me playing longer but with less story and less interesting environments to discover 😦
Really underwhelmed with Korthia. 😒 But I loved the mega dungeon.
urban spire
really? I love korthia
It feels a bit small, but I like it a lot
waaaaay better than the maw
cunning fossil
Doesn't take too much to be better than the Maw tbh
young latch
waaaaay better than the maw
I think it has a better geographic layout but I’m not a fan of the sharp angled trees you have to climb or the dull landscape. Also not enjoying the research grind.
silk cape
Still no release date yet. 😦
cunning fossil
Still no release date yet. 😦
I hope they announce something this week
urban spire
It’s Monday
They don’t generally release information on mondays
If anything it’ll be on Tuesday or Thursday
cunning fossil
If anything it’ll be on Tuesday or Thursday
I did say this week not today lols
urban spire
No, I was talking to the guy above you
But I get now that he might be someone not keeping up and just looked and saw we don’t have a release date yet
silk cape
I didnt say it is today either. :p
deep pawn
Am I heartless for not caring about raiders complaining they can't afford consumables without boosting? You have 6 months to gather the mats or gold between tiers.
urban spire
I dont think you are
Raiders did it before boosting was a thing
and before the token
they'll figure it out
vestal wing
Am I heartless for not caring about raiders complaining they can't afford consum...
I dont think raiders actually complain about this. It's just some individuals claiming to speak for the raiders without any backing in the community.
deep pawn
I think it was mostly the people saying this change hurts the people who mythic raid and aren't hall of fame.
vestal wing
nah - only those who were participating in boosting communities, which isn't a huge amount of people
rain cave
cosmic beacon
no post on the wow or blizz twitter so fake it is 
plain violet
Fake it is.
cosmic beacon
this dude on 4chan whos dads sisters mom works at blizz and said its real 
and wow shadowlands reforged sounds kinda dumb
plain violet
The "source" is just a twitter post, by the way.
plain violet
https://twitter.com/Karlanndro/status/1483528778483703822 This one, from 18 January.
cosmic beacon
reforged sylvanas so shes hot again 
upper pasture
sorry only one reforging per 18 years
cosmic beacon
upper pasture
we don't talk about that other one
rain cave
I love how i post a meme and I can't tell if people are legit thinking it's serious
dense plover
I love how i post a meme and I can't tell if people are legit thinking it's seri...
because this isnt the meme channel
so people have a lower barrier when stuff is posted here
dense plover
notice how the feral change in the newest post mentions "even post launch if we have to"
this implies we are getting close to a date
mossy meteor
no release candidate
dense plover
2-3 weeks
mossy meteor
don't they typically do 2 weeks of RC builds
dense plover
depends
dense plover
im expecting another build later this week if we are getting closer
mossy meteor
release 11 days later (june 29)
dense plover
music is really good
rain cave
wdym login music is same throughout the xpac isn't it
uncut vault
man, they really want to get the Jailer's four lines right lol
this is the sixth build in a row that they've gotten a new voice filter
oh nice, theyre finally doing legit musical transitions in fights now
when Anduin talks to Sylvanas and Uther respectively during the arthas phase transitions, they have unique tracks
mossy meteor
i can't figure out why the sylvanas track is familiar
they obviously used a similar one somewhere but i don't remember where
servers are up
upper pasture
Well hey the title is now way better than before 👀
uncut vault
they obviously used a similar one somewhere but i don't remember where
I have the exact same issue lol
I know that track 100%
cant pin down where
Uther's is obvious by comparison
mossy meteor
the zone music is so good
urban spire
@mossy meteor I have no clue what the sound is, like I have no context so this is a blind guess because I think it's kinda related, but maybe that Wrath Locket?
this maybe?
@uncut vault I see you were wondering too
and could you guys link the one playing in sepulcher?
lime venture
small quarry
Hunter is perfect？Plz fix marksmanship's bug.
dense plover
Hunter is perfect？Plz fix marksmanship's bug.
no devs here, post on the forums
cunning fossil
Lol
plain bison
Seaons of war was WoWs best cinematic song ever
autumn nest
So,when will patch 9.2 go live
glass flicker
We don't know.
There's still PTR developments to be datamined. So, just sit tight.
plain violet
Yup.. Sad day.
strange falcon
glass flicker
Ha.
cosmic beacon
<@!355414310714867715> did u see fearl druid geting nerfed
Ye everyone in the feral discord are crying 
cosmic beacon
Surprised they are nerfing stuff like feral and not frost mage 
silent juniper
I mean, they could remove vulperas instead.
cosmic beacon
Frost do nuts damage on every pull but 1 spec that does big damage on a 3 min is too overpowered
cosmic beacon
I mean, they could remove vulperas instead.
uncut lintel
I mean, they could remove vulperas instead.
vulperas is not a set piece
@cosmic beacon they always go feral or rogue and say lol this is the thing that will be shit for 2y rs
silent juniper
so... yet another system making the previous one obsolete? i kinda miss having to worry only about crafting, running dungs and raids like in wotlk 😐
cosmic beacon
its not a system to make anything obselete
its just unlocks and buffs for the new zone
only needed if you want flying in the new zone
silent juniper
well, i'd still prefer not to see yet another layer added on top of what we already have
but i guess that's what players want/like now
cosmic beacon
i dont care tbh
gives me something to do
sometimes you need a break from m+, raid or pvp and you can just chill doing wq and killing rares
silent juniper
well, let's see how they implement that. sl and bfa was like having a 2nd or 3rd job
strange falcon
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1491353060022513667?t=t4_CQxmp-v9M8JbDoOqOtg&s...
apparently the timegate is gone only for alts, not main.
not a hate watcher tho, so i dont know if true
cosmic beacon
strange falcon
so... yet another system making the previous one obsolete? i kinda miss having t...
i mean, they made classic wow just for you, then ruined it by ignoring bots and adding a boost to facilitate the bots indirectly
strange falcon
but i guess that's what players want/like now
it could be just the loudest ppl in the playerbase, but i think people have been quite clear in saying they're fed up with borrowed power systems, legion was fine because it was the first time,
but bfa and SL is blizzard trying to do legion 2.0 and 3.0 and failing hard because everyone's seen this before already
essences were prob the most well realized system they did, and they threw it in the trash in 8.3 with corruptions 😂
remember when they said that they'd put "all the systems at the start so they wouldnt have to add more in patches like BFA" during Shadowlands alpha/beta, guess that was a lie
cosmic beacon
tbh i dont get where the idea that wow is like having a job came from
sure if youre like top of the ladder player
but for 99% of the playerbase you rarely have to focus on anything other than just doing content that gives gear
strange falcon
the ""mandatory"" you must do this every week or you missed out and have no way to catch up so called "chores" and yes, only the "top of the ladder" need to worry about it, but there's a thing called "casual elitism" where we know that pugs even guilds, wont let you in, if you dont have the "correct" legendary, and before cov switching was a thing, not only did they discriminate you for your class AND spec, but for your covenant as well
so yes,i totally understand where you're coming from
but the reality of the matter is not reasonable
cosmic beacon
ngl never ran into anyone complaining about wrong legendary or cov
so i wouldnt know
unless ur a venth feral that is
strange falcon
i'll call into question "just because you never encountered it, doesnt mean it does not exist"
i know my guildie was a world 5th feral(on warcraft logs), and he still got declined in +10s because he was feral and not balance in 9.1
cosmic beacon
whys a rank 5 world feral trynna join 10s
strange falcon
dont ask me
but yes, this isnt just a Shadowlands problem either
the "you get curve from clearing the raid, but you need curve to get into a pug to clear the raid" has been a thing since MoP
silent juniper
all of the sudden, playing classic seems like a viable idea...
although, it's like reheating a freaking 10yrs old pizza.
cosmic beacon
besides rep grinds its less required systems. but just as much or even more grind 
silent juniper
i mean, they could take the best from both worlds for 9.2 or 10 but instead they do what they do.
strange falcon
I know for a large amount of people, 10.0 is the last straw for blizzard to get it right
subtle oar
whys a rank 5 world feral trynna join 10s <:Weirdge:790341093492260874>
Because he's feral XD
dense plover
whod win in aoe, a 255 feral all bis or a 200 ww <:monkaW:461923253426847758>
What does that have to do with PTR?
cosmic beacon
fine would a 279 feral in bis and 2 legos beat a 200 ww
opaque pewter
I know for a large amount of people, 10.0 is the last straw for blizzard to get ...
I'm curious what "getting it right" means for those people. Surely a lot is contradictory
strange falcon
I'm curious what "getting it right" means for those people. Surely a lot is cont...
well certainly everyone wants something different, we'll see what blizzard is able to come up with
mossy meteor
it is just for alts
that speed up
they reduced a lot of the time necessary on your first char tho
only the first 'unlocks' (dunno how to say it) are "timegated" for a few days
which is a little absurd tbh
but it has no player power
so it's w/e
opaque pewter
What I wanted to raise there is that the playerbase is so big and diverse, that you will not be able to please everyone. And normally, if you try to attempt that, then you typically end up not satisfying anyone
strange falcon
What I wanted to raise there is that the playerbase is so big and diverse, that ...
i mean, i am sure the great majority of people would be willing to compromise "their expectations" if the game was actually enjoyable in 10.0 and not "here's your list of chores to not be behind on player power"
the very fact they made a korthia 2.0 for zereth mortis surely has no one cheering
mossy meteor
what
not at all
korthia 2.0 would be:
cyphers being required for sockets or leggos or straight up giving extra [something] that can be used in raid/m+
broker rep requiring some other form of rep gain outside of dailies/rares (like archivist codex)
haughty houndBOT
Something Stinks - https://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=24536/something-stinks - PTR 9.2.0
mossy meteor
shut up bot
opaque pewter
i mean, i am sure the great majority of people would be willing to compromise "t...
The great majority likely already behaves like that. But the perceived voice will always be those loud angry one. (Often those that are not planning to play and are there to just brinf things down lol)
strange falcon
i'm not gonna play 9.2, my guild fell apart in 9.1 so i'll leave it up for the remaining playerbase to decide if its really korthia 2.0 when it releases or not
mossy meteor
it's really not anything like korthia
strange falcon
reminder that microsoft only gets in power summer 2023
mossy meteor
plus everything is 'flat', no weird hills or puzzles
and that's assuming every major governemnt regulator approves the deal^
even then, nobody but the employees will notice any actual change for a year+
mossy meteor
plus everything is 'flat', no weird hills or puzzles
theres a few treasures that require jump puzzles but door of shadows or warrior jump or warlock gateway can avoid that
opaque pewter
The flatness is sad to hear. Vertical complexity can really enhance the view
mossy meteor
well there's some hill-y areas
silent juniper
well, there are gossips that M$ has already started preparations for putting WoW into the Gamepass.
mossy meteor
but the central zone where you'll get the most of stuff (wqs, rares) is flat
opaque pewter
reminder that microsoft only gets in power summer 2023
I'm curious how people got to that conclusion
Oops sorry for ping
mossy meteor
well MS mentioned that the deal is supposed to close in summer of 2023
it's standard corporate practice
silent juniper
M&A deals can fall apart easily though. If they are preparing for that already, they may have already signed the SPA and be onto their final CPs 🤷♂️
Although, haven't followed too it too much
opaque pewter
It's all standard though. Nothing special is happening
The news on the gaming side don't know the legal stuff and are misinforming that things are "not traditionnal"
silent juniper
there's a hope that M$ will bring some fresh air into the mix. I'm sick and tired of all the systems we've had through BfA and SL.
opaque pewter
In any case, I just raised the question about the date because the docs are saying that
The deal is expected to close in fiscal year 2023
And that does not mean "summer of 2023"
mossy meteor
well it does
silent juniper
US fiscal yr is from 1st of October to Sept 30 so might be as well
opaque pewter
Yes, and on what date does it begin?
opaque pewter
lol
mossy meteor
companies with weird fiscal years .. ugh
opaque pewter
Fiscal year 2023 or "FY 2023" means the period beginning July 1, 2022, and ending June 30, 2023.
Typically, big changes in organization structure happen at those period, or one of its quarter.
When stating FY2023, it's referring to July 1, 2022
jade basalt
Technically it could be 5 months from now, or 1 year and a half from now.
mossy meteor
A large amount of Microsoft goes on vacation during july/august
that's a fun fact i just found out
opaque pewter
It's not too different at other big places. We have similar trends at Autodesk for example
strange falcon
3days before elden ring and 4 days after horizon forbidden west,
blizzard playing the dangerous game yet again
uncut lintel
cosmic beacon
cant wait to get a screenshot of the menu screen for elden ring and posting
"first run wish me luck" on the dark souls subreddit
mossy meteor
3days before elden ring and 4 days after horizon forbidden west,
blizzard playi...
not really
there's a lot of people that don't care about elden ring
and HZFW isn't even on PC
strange falcon
"not everyone that plays wow would play those games"
there's a reason why companies are very careful not to overlap release dates with "bigger/more hyped" games, because they have fear of being overshadowed, which is exactly what happened with titanfall 2
sorry if the only game you play is wow
mossy meteor
i play a bunch of games but elden ring is a niche genre
i can assure you that the release date is not chosen because elden ring is being released
cunning fossil
NAX OUT??
strange falcon
i can assure you that the release date is not chosen because elden ring is being...
i would like to point at every time they intentionally said a release date to be in the same week as another big release,
just to force players to make a choice, then denying they actually do it
but sure, lets assume it wasnt made because elden ring or horizon is releasing then
mossy meteor
what could they do then
release it a week before
or delay it until god knows when
there's always a game coming out
Blizzard knows their players
a huge majority of wow players don't even know what elden ring is
the amount of people that will drop 9.2 over elden ring is barely 0.2%
ancient jasper
Pulling statistics out of the air is a great argument.
young latch
3days before elden ring and 4 days after horizon forbidden west,
blizzard playi...
I'm excited as heck for elden ring but i dunno how much overlap there is between mmo players and souls players haha
strange falcon
the vaati video surely builds expectations
young latch
also if you're a diehard souls fan and you have the game for three days to play it, you have plenty of time to do wow stuff the next week
upper pasture
I was unaware you can only play one game at a time
young latch
i'm assuming they are talking about the no-life burst marathoning that specific ppl do on a new release
astral jasper
why are gameboys getting mad at ppl for being hyped and enjoying things they don't lol
wow community's always been toxic but I've never seen it being this bad lol
dense plover
So, April 19 is the last LFR wing. This is likely around the time they’ll announce 10.0
They won’t announce next Expac until the final raid cutscene can be seen by everyone
Also this is a slow af raid schedule
subtle oar
So, April 19 is the last LFR wing. This is likely around the time they’ll announ...
Announcing 10.0 in April? That'd kill any hype for it
And would kill the mood for anyone playing 9.2 because that means the next xpac would be 2023
dense plover
I mean, that’s 2 months after patch at least
It’s probably more likely to be may
But they’ll need to start alpha soon and that can’t do that without announcing and talking about the expac
Realistically 9.2.5 will probably hit PTR in April
Like the week after LFR
And then probably 10.0 announce 4-6 weeks after that
And considering the release date of 9.2, my guess is they’re aiming for a November 10.0
Any later and it likely means 10.0 won’t release until March
subtle oar
10.0 needs to be announced before April. It has to, to give a breath of fresh air to the playerbase
dense plover
It can’t be announced before the final LFR wing
That’s when the story capstone gets released on YouTube and when everyone can play through it
subtle oar
No? We see it the week mythic launches
We cant kill the last 3 bosses week one of launch. The week after, when mythic launched, is when the last 3 bossed unlock.
We'll see the end of the story week 2 of 9.2
Also, Blizz had ALWAYS announced the next xpac well before the end of the current xpac.
Before 7.3 even dropped, we knew about BfA
uncut vault
They won’t announce next Expac until the final raid cutscene can be seen by ever...
This will happen much sooner than that wing release, thanks to how they do patch campaigns now
They just show you the end cinematic during the first quest of the chapter regardless of if you’ve done the raid
But also, they announced Shadowlands two and a half months before 8.3 even came out, so that distinction has never really mattered
uncut vault
Probably for the sake of not having it just sitting there in the journal as another space clogging up the journal, since the covenant campaigns are always there for some reason
young latch
I'm looking forward to the book-- christie seemed excited about it too on twitter.
uncut vault
I mean, I’d certainly hope she’s happy for her own writing 😛
Im going into it with a very tentative eye after her last time writing Sylvanas in a novel, definitely going to need an explicitly different approach from that
young latch
About the release I mean.
uncut vault
But I’m not too hopeful lol
young latch
I think I'd like a Cat Valente Sylvanas book based on the short story she wrote for the fairy tale book.
But I like to be hopeful that they're doing the best they can with Sylvanas with afraisabi gone.
uncut vault
I think they’re certainly trying
But definitely not doing the best haha
They seem to mostly just be rushing through it, hitting what they see as mandatory plot beats and nothing else to wrap her up with as little screen time as possible in 9.2
young latch
I've been in positions where I was hired to write something and a person over me said "no, do this thing instead" and I had to do it. So I know writing by comittee can be a pain in the ass and can hurt the work.
(One of the most irritating examples was having to rewrite an entire battle scene in present time being a flashback because the coders didn't want to depict a fight scene. :|)
uncut vault
That definitely seems in part due to writing/narrative being treated as a secondary priority, which WoW also very clearly suffers from haha
young latch
There's a lot of coders who think writing is easy and that if they can code they can also write a story. And then they still have to begrudgingly hire writers, which they micromanage.
Whoever was writing the sylvanas and anduin dialogues did a good job imo based on what they inhereted from a bunch of people who aren't even employed at blizz anymore so I'm gonna try to be optimistic.
But if it's not my cup of tea, oh well.
deep pawn
I wish I could be excited for this patch
mossy meteor
I'm excited either way
I haven't burned myself out testing it beyond like
Figuring out how long it takes to get flying if you're a returning player
Answer to that is probably a couple hours with the campaign taking the longest
And I've just finished leveling my 4th max level character in 2 weeks
(2 alliance - mage, shaman, 2 horde - paladin, dh)
merry tusk
I have so much covenant work to do and now ZMo will be added to it ,😭😭
glass flicker
Ah, 9.2 on the 22nd/23rd. I guess Blizzard gotta Blizzard. "Stop Lost Ark!"
astral jasper
almost 20 years and people still want to believe Blizz releases around "competitors"
glass flicker
It's been true, for the most part.
merry tusk
If every server is as dead as mine, lost ark and the like aren't worried about little ol wow anymore
subtle oar
almost 20 years and people still want to believe Blizz releases around "competit...
They literally do my dude XD.
This ain't some conspiracy theory.
glass flicker
They literally do my dude XD.
How many players will return for 9.2, do you reckon?
subtle oar
Not even 1/4th of the players who've left
deep pawn
Lost Ark is already out
only things it could be competing with is Destiny 2 and Elden Ring
urban spire
^
I dont know why people are saying it's to combat lost ark
that game releases on the 11th for free to play users
and has been out for years prior in regions outside of NA
Blizzard hasn't really cared to release things just because other companies are, I think it's more so that blizzard doesn't really care what's going on with the gaming industry when they release their stuff because they assume most people interested will drop other things and go and check their stuff out
at least with shit in the past before the last 4 years
dense plover
its more likely related to FFXIV - most people will have gotten their 7 week weapon by this point
outside of also needing the time to work on it ofc
lost ark isnt competition
its not even the same genre
urban spire
well it is, kind of, but not in the same way as FF14
it's just a popular game lots of gamers are looking at
dense plover
sure but its not competition more than any other game release is
upper pasture
Gamers look at any game for a week nowadays
dense plover
there are SO many games this year
urban spire
yeah. I think the only things that blizzard will release stuff around, but not neccesarily on, are ESO, GW2, and FF14
SWTOR has a new expac coming out, but I doubt anyone in the MMO business really considers that comp anymore
dense plover
honestly FFXIV is probably the only true competitor
urban spire
yeah and even ff14 is kind of a sideways competitor, myself and a shit ton of others aren't really interested in the kind of game ff14 is
not that it's bad
just not our cup of tea
dense plover
meanwhile as a lore nerd, ive fully switched over b/c the writing in WoW is in the fucking toilet right now
urban spire
oh for sure
dense plover
seriously why do people get in the way of Golden trying to actually tell a story with depth
glass flicker
I played FF. Got a sub, didn't sub for the next month. Can't get it working again. Wasted money.
dense plover
like - she is the only reason we got some of the BfA cutscenes that made the story acceptable-ish
and they just keep ignoring her, disregarding lore and making shit up to try and tell a bigger and bigger story instead of focusing in and developing characters and motivations and making people invested
like - FFXIV endwalker is literally built off of everything since 1.0 and its main focus is character stories
and it all ties together
urban spire
yeah well look at all the good pieces of literature and TV in recent years and look at which stories did good and what they focused on
dense plover
the total lack of character development since Legion is part of why the game feels bad
urban spire
it wasn't the world or lore
it was characters
GoT is the biggest one that comes to mind for me (disregarding the TV shows final seasons)
In the books there is a ton of world building
but the main focus is the characters and their interactions with said world
glass flicker
Character driven plots should be the main focus. Instead, we get a bald basic bitch who is the literal Grim Reaper, and he's boring as hell.
dense plover
like - Thrall went from being "i want to be with my family leave me alone" back to "i guess im essentially warchief, rah rah orc smash"
its a total disregard of his character arc
urban spire
and barely anything has the curtain revealed in terms of the inner workings of the world
urban spire
I hate shadowlands from a pure conceptual story point
we never ever
should have seen the workings of death
dense plover
i sincerely hope 10.0 is better
with some of the people who were in charge gone, i have my fingers crossed
dense plover
should have seen the workings of death
i dont think its conceptually bad - i think it being the plot behind a bunch of shit we already knew about is fucking stupid
urban spire
I dont mind the content of the expac personally, but by revealing the whole thing of death and inventing the first ones they made a lot of the older lore and stories kind of lack luster and seemingly boring
yeah true
dense plover
yes
urban spire
to say that from TBC - Legion was all the working of a big bad we haven't really had literal hints to in previous work was pathetic
I'm kind of sad metzen left actually
warcraft might not have been as big or bold story wise
but I miss stuff like WoD or MoP happening
Like I feel like we can't have a story like that feel as meaningful anymore
since the pandora's box of the cosmic has been opened
dense plover
idk
i think the problem is more them inventing a new villain that didnt build off existing stuff correctly
why wasnt denathrius the villain?
he was in charge of the nathrezim - a foe we knew DIDNT start as being part of the legion
and had infiltrated other cosmic forces
making them the pawn of someone else doesnt make sense
their whole thing is THEY are using the groups they infiltrate
so why not make the jailer the pawn, why not make denathrius the true villain, the first nathrezim
it was so obvious
and it wouldve worked so much better
but apparently nobody thought during development "how do we make the bad guy someone the players want to stop"
and so now we have Baldy McGreyskin Chainface whose voice barely sounds scary and whose threats have no meaning
upper pasture
so why not make the jailer the pawn, why not make denathrius the true villain, t...
Don’t worry that’s next expansion 😉
dense plover
the total lack of jailer backstory, jailer monologue, or any sort of build up to making him a true villain is nonexistant
its like they forgot why sargeras was so bad
Sargeras is a great villain not just because he wants to destroy our planet but because he has the capability to do so and has done so to other places we have been to or have seen
we have seen what he can do
not once do we see what the jailer can do to somewhere he isnt from
not once do we see the danger of the jailer breaking free
we have no context for how strong he is
like - Arthas was a good villain purely in wrath because he shows up multiple times in other raids and dungeons and essentially tosses us aside
jailer seemed scary in the shadowlands intro and then he just fucks off
upper pasture
Honestly that’s why I thought it would have been better for the story if we lose this last fight and the jailer gets a semi win but not a total win
dense plover
Arthas kept showing up AGAIN AND AGAIN
and so we got to know him
how strong he was
how dangerous
and how he was already steps ahead of us
wrath gate showed us he had no qualms murdering everyone
trial of the crusader showed us how nowhere was safe
and we get bits of monologue and visions of stuff happening in every zone throughout the zone
shadowlands is instead a story that tells us how denathrius fucked the shadowlands over to free the jailer - a guy he helped imprison - because? power that he already had before freeing the jailer?
his motivations fall off once the jailer is involved
some big reveal about denathrius having killed the jailer and actually being the villain and tricking the other covenants into going into the maw so he could trap them wouldve been SO MUCH BETTER
there were so many better options
but no
we got this
and it sucks
and i HATE that it sucks
because i want to play wow
but i dont want to play shadowlands
young latch
I think it’s just the oppressive amount of time gating that turned me off to it. And I don’t even hate time gating when reasonable.
Surumar felt reasonable. Time gating the grinds for cosmetic covenant gear is mind boggling.
deep pawn
They SEEM to be listening, but it is exhausting to have to fight their old tendencies
uncut vault
and they just keep ignoring her, disregarding lore and making shit up to try and...
I mean, golden isn’t exactly free of doing that frequently either lol
Whole premise of tides of war was pretending that Theramore was 100% neutral and never ever supported the alliance war effort
Before the Storm retconned forsaken society into being suddenly fascist and hating history books to prop up a “true” queen
dense plover
i mean sure - but her stories are still better than whatever the fuck is going on right now
uncut vault
Elegy is a whole lot of torture porn about nelfs that is just painful to read
And she’s got some really poorly dialogued cinematics in BfA and shadowlands, even with the bad story
The Elune cinematic is one of the worst ways to possible handle what could have been a mediocre and annoying but acceptable plot best
dense plover
The Elune cinematic is one of the worst ways to possible handle what could have ...
do we know thats her?
uncut vault
There’s 100% no consistency between her works and the game stuff, but that doesn’t really make either good
Yes, she’s said she wrote its script a while back
Plus she does most all the cinematic scripts now
And the ones she doesn’t happen to be some of the better ones haha, like the bastion afterlives short
Even if it kinda ended up being nothing thanks to Devos being wasted
opaque pewter
Script and narrative are two different things. But yes, ultimately no one person typically has full control in a big work like this
young latch
And the ones she doesn’t happen to be some of the better ones haha, like the bas...
who did that one?
uncut vault
who did that one?
Andrew Robinson, the writer for the original Overwatch shorts and the Harbingers shorts
young latch
Andrew Robinson, the writer for the original Overwatch shorts and the Harbingers...
I hope he does more, he's really good.
glass flicker
BfA had the best storytelling. MoP had the best storyline.
And BfA simply won by having those Saurfang cinematics and the war campaign wasn't half bad, either.
Shadowlands is a downgrade from any other expansion.
uncut vault
BfA's storytelling pretty inherently fails as a game though
because the main plot literally is not in the game lol
it's baffling that the saurfang series is still only on youtube to this day, aside from the ending
glass flicker
That's very true.
If we ignore the outside sources, BfA falls at least below Burning Crusade in terms of storytelling.
silent juniper
Am I the only one thinking that Blizzard is making the whole story tad... Too big? Like, too much of a high fantasy?
uncut vault
You arent, one of the biggest complaints is the constant need to scale up from the last big bad in terms of their impact, and that Shadowlands essentially feels like a different game lol
silent juniper
Sometime ago I was thinking that they should make a split after SL - allow people to either come back to Azeroth or go ahead and do some more dumb, overpowered shit. However, those who come back to Azeroth would lose most of their powers. 🤷♂️
young latch
Am I the only one thinking that Blizzard is making the whole story tad... Too bi...
I wouldn't mind if it didn't always end in robots. I'm so tired of robots as an explination for every cosmic fantasy element lol
silent juniper
I'd prefer to get more dark/low fantasy elements personally, but I doubt that's possible, lol
young latch
I think it's very possible when the focus is on lower-scale conflicts that still effect lives.
Let's take a look at suramar-- the narrative there would have worked even without the burning legion.
Old as hell beautiful empire falling apart from within is punishing its own citizens and we gotta help them.
silent juniper
My scepticism comes from the overall direction they are taking the story. If 10.0 leaks are correct, we will be able to play black dragons. 😐
plain violet
Low fantasy isn't possible in WoW yes, because that would not be coherent with the omnipresent nature of magic.
young latch
I have no problem with playing as a black dragon because we have elves and zombies and minotaurs from the beginning.
I think what can make high fantasy interesting in a similar way to low fantasy is talking about how magic affects society and how it must be controlled.
silent juniper
I'm not sure what status dragons have now, but in Warcraft 3 and up to the WotLK they were rather strong, no?
glass flicker
I just think the line was crossed at interdimensional time travel.
Now everything is on the table.
And nothing matters, because we can just pull another one from our ass.
Gul'dan 3 in the distance.
young latch
I'm not sure what status dragons have now, but in Warcraft 3 and up to the WotLK...
Cata nerfed them hard-- but if it's a player character dragon then that's not really out of canon for our main character to be overpowered
silent juniper
That's correct.
young latch
I don't really like the idea of playable dragons because they're more or less going to be playable races we already have and they'll never be able to fight in dragon form anyway
it just doesn't seem like an interesting choice to me
glass flicker
Or they function like worgen and you never fight in humanoid form.
young latch
Or they function like worgen and you never fight in humanoid form.
I think the leak said they fight in humanoid form only
New races are okay but what excites me are new classes and i would like those
i want a tinker or a bard or a necromancer pretty bad
glass flicker
I'm not sure we really need new classes.
young latch
we do
plain violet
We cannot know.
glass flicker
There's already so many specs to be balanced. Adding more on that pile would be kind of bad.
plain violet
Leaks are often just a bunch of demagogic writing to dwelve onto popular wishes or hopes.
young latch
systems make balance harder than new classes do
glass flicker
I like how the community accepted the Dragon Isles idea as canon at this point, though. Amusing.
young latch
like i hate to be that guy and i'm not endorsing ff14 or whatever but they do not struggle adding and balancing new classes (I am not a ff14 player I'm just saying that other mmos can and do add new classes easily)
glass flicker
The difference is other MMO's don't pile on a dozen systems that become irrelevant next patch.
young latch
yes, so i think the right move is to distance from systems
or just have a single system
1 new system is fine
glass flicker
WoD was the last expansion where we didn't have a dumb system.
And WoD was good. Not much content, but it was good.
young latch
It had its issues too. A lot of classes were super reliant on 1 trinket to work. The legendary ring was a slog.
WoD had one of the most painful content drouts I've ever experienced. I was not a garrison fan.
plain violet
like i hate to be that guy and i'm not endorsing ff14 or whatever but they do no...
They do a bit, but that's not onto "powerful/not powerful" but more on the side of "not fun to play" "innefective in comparison to the other tank" "why would I take him". They're still trying to balance it, so that's cool, but the state of the jobs in FFXIV is not perfect at all.
This is also why some jobs did get complete changes, like WoW have done.
glass flicker
For every samurai in FFXIV, there's a BM hunter in WoW.
plain violet
Ahaha.
young latch
I feel torghast and legendary crafting makes SL a better expansion than wod but I do think SL suffers from a lot of avoidable problems which is a shame because I love the art direction for the covenants.
I'm kinda scared I'll never see night fae stuff again when I feel like I never got a proper night fae experience.
young latch
I love the faerie mobs a /lot/. Not as big of a fan of the satyrs or centaurs.
glass flicker
Even the Winter Queen looks ugly imo.
young latch
I think she looks like a plant which is cool.
I wish night fae still had flowers and faeries and what-not but a much darker tone.
It was very whimsy and cute but the right undertone was there-- fae are mean and a little bit eldritch
young latch
The models for mobs and NPCs aren't.
I gives me dark crystal vibes. Like the gelflings?
young latch
I think the only one I don't like is maldraxxus and I'm not even sure why
But I like the primus.
I guess if maldraxus was going to be spooky I would have liked a little more fearfulness put into it
plain violet
Maldraxxus is nice but too dark to imagine living here.
plain violet
I can see the thing. The artists have said it was inspired by metal album artworks.. But yeah some zones are more into the slimy side.
glass flicker
I gives me dark crystal vibes. Like the gelflings?
I swear, if Elune is a fucking sunflower, I will hate night elves as much as vulpera.
subtle oar
Imagine hating vulpera
young latch
I swear, if Elune is a fucking sunflower, I will hate night elves as much as vul...
idk what she'll look like but being connected to the panteon of life and nelves having a nature theme does make me thing there will be some plant aspect involved
or water
glass flicker
Blue sunflower chick with elf ears and a ponytail. Calling it.
coarse quail
If we ignore the outside sources, BfA falls at least below Burning Crusade in te...
Why exactly...?
glass flicker
Let's be real, the cinematics made in CGI are the best part of BfA. Bwonsamdi doesn't count, he's a stay forever best boi.
coarse quail
The story of bfa was nice
But ti say that tbc wasn't or was less than bfa...?
I didn't understand what u meant.
vestal wing
you cant just ignore storytelling
vestal wing
I think it's even more important than storyline.
glass flicker
I think it's even more important than storyline.
Yup. 200%
That's why I said BfA's was good.
vestal wing
yes
coarse quail
The telling?yes,it was.
The plot...gone missing with that,lol
Warzthen peace,than hate,the burned trees,than azahshra of whatever and than old god...
They gone missing with that,lol
vestal wing
I think even if you have a bad story, but tell it well the results will be good.
glass flicker
That's basically what Mortal Kombat did.
vestal wing
Right?
glass flicker
Yup!
vestal wing
So I get when people are upset about "bad writing" when they just read about lore on forums or watch youtube videos.
If you actually play the game it all becomes really enjoyable.
glass flicker
Yeah.
I liked MK better in the game than when I read about it later.
Kronika makes no goddamn sense.
Back to WoW...
glass prawn
Finally a release date for 9.2 lol
glass flicker
Let's see how many bugs there will be and how many features they manage to mess up.
plain violet
If you actually play the game it all becomes really enjoyable.
Generally that. Story in games are meant to be well.. Played.
glass flicker
And for fuck's sake, please fix the Kyrian cosmetic chest pieces. I want the 3D arms bit when wearing gloves.
plain violet
To me the MK well.. Enjoyable but really cliche. Still, we have many great characters.
glass flicker
I'm talking about [Aspiring Aspirant's Vestments]
haughty houndBOT
Aspiring Aspirant's Vestments - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=184991/aspiring-aspirants-vestments - PTR 9.2.0
plain violet
Is but bugged?
plain violet
Every gloves or only some?
glass flicker
Every gloves item.
plain violet
Oh, strange. :(
edgy ivy
Zereth Mortis only has laestrite and elethium nodes right?
young latch
i can't get it out of my mine that anduin and sylvanas did a fashion role reversal. he became the goth one, and she became the prep one this expansion.
cosmic beacon
Clearly apple hasn’t been playing or paying attention