Like, there's no need to take a week off work to binge everything in one go when the content is already done moderately
#beta-ptr-spoilers
tepid fiber
urban spire
but the hope is that maybe the new system is built off of old ones
instead of trying ot make it new
or just no system in general
tepid fiber
Doomers gonna doom, however
strange falcon
As they say size isnt everything
urban spire
No, but nazjatar had more content
and in many ways this proves the whole thing about not needing more content always because it becomes overwhelming
them time gating the raid reduces the overall sensory overload
strange falcon
More systems just what everyone was asking for
strange falcon
Im not arguing timegating the major draw for pve players in a patch
tepid fiber
man do you only look at the negatives?
Dafire is a hater. He doesn't play and never has anything good to say. I just ignore him and other constant shittalkers just so I can actually talk about the game with people who play it
cunning fossil
the system
Also it's not based on power. I think it's just to unlock content
Yah know
tepid fiber
Also it's not based on power. I think it's just to unlock content
This
cunning fossil
Like learning a language can be
glass flicker
So what do you think about creating tier set items?
vernal juniper
well if 9.2 will be final patch, we will talk about beta in the following 2-3 months
glass flicker
Sounds interesting.
vernal juniper
alpha*
strange falcon
Thats what the game is designed as,its not something the players just came up with
glass flicker
Oh yeah, did they give us a boss list for Sepulcher?
strange falcon
and in many ways this proves the whole thing about not needing more content alwa...
It wouldnt become overwhelming if it is introduced correctly rather than being frontloaded,you can do that without timegating
strange falcon
man do you only look at the negatives?
Im grounding everyones expectations so you dont get disappointed from having your hopes too high
glass flicker
We knew from the start that Anduin and Zovaal would be bosses. And I speculated we'd see Mal'Ganis
cunning fossil
Im grounding everyones expectations so you dont get disappointed from having you...
Ngl man. I've yet to hear ang positives from yah.
Like u don't need to.hype it out
strange falcon
I mean,i didnt use to be a hater,gumball, i even defended the covenants in shadowlands beta saying if they could balance it,it would be fine
cunning fossil
But don't grind it into the dust either
strange falcon
But I've run out of faith for this company after being fucked over too many times
glass flicker
Hm. Ignored. Welp, can't blame ya.
strange falcon
Ngl man. I've yet to hear ang positives from yah.
Go a few months back
cunning fossil
Oh yeah, did they give us a boss list for Sepulcher?
Oh we only have
Anduin and Zovaap
And I think some sort of guardian/Jailer minion?
strange falcon
Hm. Ignored. Welp, can't blame ya.
This is what you get for actively spitting in your playerbases faces for years and years and saying we are wrong then immediately doing everything we said to do in the beta after you've lost enough subs
glass flicker
This is what you get for actively spitting in your playerbases faces for years a...
I meant that everything I said went ignored.
strange falcon
It can happen
glass flicker
Certainly sucks. Anywho...
Anduin could be the first boss and we free him, then we fight our way through some constructs of the first ones, with Mal'Ganis thrown in for good measure. And Zovaal as the final boss.
4-5 bosses, maybe.
But the article in Latest News says eight bosses.
Which kinda leaves me dumbfounded.
glass flicker
Wait, so how many bosses are in this raid?
deep pawn
11
glass flicker
Got a list?
deep pawn
not yet
glass flicker
And they'll have fodder with no lore significance instead of tying up some loose ends. I guaran-fucking-tee.
deep pawn
eh.. seems like only Malganis will be plot relevant
We'll fight "prototypes" of the eternal ones.
glass flicker
How are we supposed to take them as threats when they don't do anything except appearing in the raid?
deep pawn
The Eternal Ones were created here in Zereth Mortis after their realms were made
glass flicker
I've been memeing on Zovaal for twirling his mustache all expansion, but at least we've seen him use Domination magic.
warm shore
Yea, Im still stuck on the fact that Zereth Mortis is apparently still making afterlives for the shadowlands
glass flicker
I'm stuck on the fact that Zereth Mortis retconned the purpose of the Titans.
silent urchin
He confirmed the High Priestess of Elune will appear in “Eternity’s End,” and will come face-to-face with a very different Sylvanas than she battled during the opening scenario for “Chains of Domination.” corrupted tyrande is a boss cmv
glass flicker
The Titans were the ones who created the universe, back when that meant something.
cunning fossil
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-raid-is-timegated/1132258/69
Not necessarily a bad thing
warm shore
wasnt it retconned since beginning of shadowlands that the first ones made everything?
glass flicker
Yup.
cunning fossil
I mean I like it since it will sound like an actual narrative
glass flicker
Could have just said "The Eternal Ones created the Shadowlands and gave birth to the Titans to create an universe for the living."
That would have been better.
warm shore
this does leave titans in a weird spot, yea
they basically have no real purpose beyond existing
glass flicker
And looking for World Souls.
deep pawn
The titans ordered the living universe apparently
glass flicker
And keeping "order," Sargeras.
vernal juniper
deep pawn
The titans were likely created by the first ones as well
vernal juniper
reddit 3 days ago
glass flicker
I posted it already.
vernal juniper
kk
deep pawn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347751725903380492/908447979726315560/7c7...
it has multiple typos, it was never right
vernal juniper
well they got some things
languid yoke
if you guess 100 things and happen to get 10 right, you're still not a psychic
deep pawn
it was always clear Zereth Mortis was next.
cunning fossil
Could have just said "The Eternal Ones created the Shadowlands and gave birth to...
I believe this is implied
glass flicker
I mean, everyone called 9.2.
tepid fiber
Yea, Im still stuck on the fact that Zereth Mortis is apparently still making af...
How? There's an innumerable number of afterlives. The four that we see are just the ones that are designed to keep the lights on, as it were
glass flicker
Yeah, Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher were obvious.
cunning fossil
well they got some things
2 out of 6
deep pawn
The Titans look to be our universe equivalent of the Pantheons of Death and Life.
warm shore
well my point is that theyre still MAKING afterlives, as in they arent finished forming afterlives
tepid fiber
wasnt it retconned since beginning of shadowlands that the first ones made every...
They didn't so much "make" as "shape" from what I've gathered
strange falcon
I'm stuck on the fact that Zereth Mortis retconned the purpose of the Titans.
Not the first retcon thats happened this expansion
tepid fiber
well my point is that theyre still MAKING afterlives, as in they arent finished ...
New lives with new beliefs dying, more places for souls to go, etc
cunning fossil
I'm stuck on the fact that Zereth Mortis retconned the purpose of the Titans.
Zenith mortise makes afterlives
Not life or creates anything else
cunning fossil
It looks as if it only makes death rated things realms like ardenweald revendreth
Etc
warm shore
New lives with new beliefs dying, more places for souls to go, etc
WIsh we could see some of the mentioned afterlives like the children one or the one place where some heroes go to rest
what was it? the eternal inn or some such?
subtle oar
WIsh we could see some of the mentioned afterlives like the children one or the ...
Wish we could have seen the Orc spirits afterlife
subtle oar
Tyrande is a boss?
No
glass flicker
Phew.
tepid fiber
I prefer that some things are left open and unexplained, honestly
silent urchin
oh hey we got bumped to 9.2 spoilers instead of 9.1.5
glass flicker
Also, Sylvanas in Zereth Mortis, maybe. Or the first Eternal One we see, which resembles her.
cunning fossil
Oh my God yeah
glass flicker
Also, where the hell are Thrall, Baine, Bolvar, Taelia, Calia, and Ol' Emma?
None of them are in that screenshot. Why would they not be fighting along their friends to save the fucking universe?
deep pawn
Jaina and Sylvanas both want to save Anduin.
strange falcon
Also, Sylvanas in Zereth Mortis, maybe. Or the first Eternal One we see, which r...
Sylvanas
glass flicker
She even has the arm wraps Sylvanas has in her current outfit.
And blue eyes.
Can anyone enhance that image?
silent urchin
I mean it could be sylvanas, or it could be a completely different undead elf npc
strange falcon
glass flicker
Honest to God, I don't like that look. She should have a plain ol' shirt instead of that tabard looking thing.
I do like the corset, though. Keep that.
I just can't help but notice her arms are a different color from the rest of her body. Look at her arms, then look at her chest.
urban spire
its a shirt
glass flicker
Her face got the color right, at least.
urban spire
the blue on her chest
glass flicker
Definitely looks like cleavage.
urban spire
eh, to me it's baby blue while her arms and head are consistent so I think it's a shirt
tbh though it's super low quality
glass flicker
Not a good look. Sylvanas really didn't age well.
urban spire
and it looks like she has a bright blue necklace too
glass flicker
Yes Foxy, we were already talking about that.
uncut lintel
oh
uncut lintel
i prefer banshee sy-- wait.. forgot..shes not a banshee anymore D:
she has blue eyes now 
glass flicker
Yeah, she's just a plain ol' zombie now.
uncut lintel
oh no i must be preganananant
cosmic beacon
wtf did i just read
uncut lintel
cosmic beacon
moving on
uncut lintel
if a women has starch masks- wait, if a women, has starch marks, on her body, is she, pregananant
glass flicker
Yes Foxy, we are aware of your dyslexia.
cosmic beacon
what if i, a male have starch marks 
uncut lintel
no idea
cosmic beacon
glass flicker
Gender? Well, some people identify as Mayonnaise on Chair.
uncut lintel
uncut lintel
Gender? Well, some people identify as Mayonnaise on Chair.
a piece of bacon inside a wooden chair
strange falcon
wtf did i just read
The best of yahoo answers,
The other great one is "does he have a luigi board"
cosmic beacon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/756608673442169027/908422817899503676/unknown.png
@uncut lintel
cosmic beacon
i think it looks dope
uncut lintel
tho wyh is a belf wearing it
cosmic beacon
granted if the mythic sets are that
cosmic beacon
new belf druids 9.2 
uncut lintel
digusting
cosmic beacon
no panda or vulpera druid news 
uncut lintel
vulpera customs plz D:
cosmic beacon
updated nightborne looks, if only people played nightborne
uncut lintel
i am planning to level mine later
silent urchin
PTR updated but it was just fixes for 9.1.5, bloody trolls over at blizz
subtle oar
PTR updated but it was just fixes for 9.1.5, bloody trolls over at blizz
Ion said it will be up in the next few weeks
pulsar minnow
So I was just looking through the Eternity’s End Press Kit and found this
Not sure if I’m the first to post this here
But is it just me or does that energy beam behind him look suspiciously similar to Azerite?
I’ve been saying it since like Alpha, but I think Azeroth is not a Titan but a First One
Also here are some raid weapons:
vernal juniper
@pulsar minnow yep seems. Remember in end it is a nzoth plan. 😉
if we are going back in the current story we may be in the Black Empire
but if we ending warcraft 3 "era" noone can predict what will happen next since they will use new villains/heroes
pulsar minnow
N’zoth is dead
pulsar minnow
My man got dragon balled into the afterlife
tepid fiber
Yeah, N'Zoth is gone
vernal juniper
he gave to you the weapon to kill himself. very clever.
vernal juniper
depends if he wants to be in shadowlands is a good story
pulsar minnow
Yeah but introducing him last minute twice in a row is a bad story
vernal juniper
I don't rember the story but you can probably google it
tepid fiber
He wouldn't be. We unmade him essentially. Even if Old Gods got reconstituted somewhere else it would be into the Void
pulsar minnow
But that’s not what’s important here. What’s going on with the Jailer’s boss room
It could just be reused assets but I really think that’s intentional
Nobody knows
vernal juniper
Nzoth gave to us the dagger we used to kill him so according to this, or he wanted to be in the shadowlands or it is really not dead. I'm not a lore master but you can search for it.
pulsar minnow
Old gods don’t go to the shadowlands
tepid fiber
Nzoth gave to us the dagger we used to kill him so according to this, or he want...
N'Zoth didn't give us Xal'atath, and Old Gods don't get sent to the Shadowlands
vernal juniper
Depdens.
as Dev said, they have more "aspects"
basically
they can do whatever they want
maybe we event fought the real form of Nzoth.
anyway it dosen't matters. if they end the warcraft 3 era. as they said, we proably have new villains
tepid fiber
I think you need to go back and read some more lore and/or watch some Nobbel87, because you clearly are missing some fundamental story beats
vernal juniper
it can be everything, i remember exactly (i think was ION) saying, old golds can be present in many forms
tepid fiber
N'Zoth is dead, and there's still a bunch of other stuff aside from the Jailer's machinations that we've seen since WC3
upper pasture
We killed n’zoth with a dagger? I thought we used the light with the necklace?
vernal juniper
was something related to the dagger he gave to us
can remember what
I pretty sure I've seen this on asmongold or sloot stream
with a lore guru was talking
alexdragon
or something like that
tepid fiber
We killed n’zoth with a dagger? I thought we used the light with the necklace?
Technically we used the Forge of Origination basically. We used Xal'atath as a tool to open him up and the Heart of Azeroth as a beacon to aim the Forge of Origination into Ny'alotha
uncut lintel
2 ppl arguing wether fiddling octo arms is dead or not
vernal juniper
can't remeber if he said "dagger" to kill him or "dagger to trap him"
uncut lintel
upper pasture
Oh I don’t remember any dagger lol but then again I did do BfA like a month before prepatch lol so that’s to be expected
vernal juniper
if you know who was the lore guru
tepid fiber
2 ppl arguing wether fiddling octo arms is dead or not
Slock doesn't know/remember the lore and is trying to speculate on a foundation of misunderstanding
vernal juniper
you can probably reach in what he was saying
cant remember his name
nope I remember what he was saying
uncut lintel
Oh I don’t remember any dagger lol but then again I did do BfA like a month befo...
i think it was the priests artifact dagger idk tho
tepid fiber
you can probably reach in what he was saying
Or you can check in-game, or on wowpedia, or for a lore recap on wowhead, or watch some Nobbel87 on youtube
tepid fiber
i think it was the priests artifact dagger idk tho
Xal'atath
And it wasn't Xal'atath that killed N'Zoth
uncut lintel
oh
vernal juniper
Why i need to watch Nobbel? he is working for Blizzard? As I said that was another Lore Nerd.
uncut lintel
u sound likea lore nerd right now tho
vernal juniper
me? not at all 😄
tepid fiber
A lore nerd would get the lore right
vernal juniper
so you are saying Nobbel knows what will happen in the following 20 years of the game.
Interesting
tepid fiber
What
uncut lintel
?
vernal juniper
Some people speculate that he is in the Blade of the Black Empire.
The idea is that Xal'atath gets released, and N'Zoth says she can go, but "the blade must remain to serve [his] will."
Queen Azshara is captured and being tortured, but she still has the blade on her, which she gives to Wrathion. Why, some ask, would N'Zoth have allowed her to keep the blade in her possession? He's been planning his escape for 10,000 years and has strong attention to detail. It doesn't make sense that he'd just overlook this. Perhaps he wanted her to have it?
Wrathion later uses the blade to stab N'Zoth, and when he gets flung back, the blade is no longer in the Black Prince's hand. Was it destroyed, or has it be secreted away, this time with N'Zoth (or part of N'Zoth) inside rather than Xal'atath?
This disappearing blade reminds me of a whisper from Xal'atath in Legion:
I remember the Dark Iron fondly. Modgud was so easy to influence, such was her hate. Imagine her fury when I abandoned her to the Wildhammer at the worst time. I can be very easy to lose. Remember that.
This alludes to a sense of agency for an entity in the blade, even without a bearer.
Lastly, I would add this interview with Steve Danuser, Lead Narrative Designer for World of Warcraft in March 2020:
While the Light can only conceive of one true path, the Void sees endless possibilities. Strategically, the Old Gods always have plans within plans, waiting for one door to close so another can open. To believe there can only be a single outcome to the struggle against N'Zoth would be to ignore the lessons he was trying to teach us.
"All eyes shall be opened." Do not allow yours to be closed.
haughty houndBOT
The Way to His Heart... - https://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=11472/the-way-to-his-heart - PTR 9.1.5
vernal juniper
anyway gn8
dense plover
Some people speculate that he is in the Blade of the Black Empire.
The idea is ...
This is the theory I sign on to
It makes no sense for nzoth to let the blade be a weapon that can “kill” him and give it to his enemies if he knows they can use it against him
It was given on purpose
And this is part of nzoth escaping what he probably saw as otherwise inescapable
subtle oar
We were outright told by Xalatath, that even when Nzoth loses, he ultimately wins.
dense plover
Dagger would’ve stayed with nzoth is he didn’t want us to have it
subtle oar
And just like that, all interest is gone
pulsar minnow
Meh. I mean I don’t like it or hate it. I’m just more interested in Zereth Mortis
subtle oar
I outright hate this shit.
silent urchin
oh no not the shitty ass jokes in obscure vanilla quests, that was the only part of wow I ever enjoyed
urban spire
wait
deep pawn
I'll never get people upset that obviously problematic content is being removed. If you think it's fine and laugh at it, maybe gaming culture is leaving you behind finally
urban spire
you're going to spitefully not play a game because some quest text was changed?
that's so ridiculous
are you 8?
this kind of stuff is on par with ruining friendships because of political or religous beliefs
the devs changing this stuff has no affect on your gameplay
or how you interact with the world
it just gets rid of some crude jokes that have outstayed their welcome
deep pawn
Rolling your eyes doesn't change that stuff like that was inappropriate then but cause the people developing at the time found it funny and designed the game primarily for others who thought things were acceptable 16 years ago. Well times change for the better.
left arch
That’s just Wynter
silk cape
ptr 9.2 servers up tomorrow?
silent urchin
Unlikely. Apparently one of the interviews said they hit some tech issues and it could be a couple of weeks
cunning fossil
What the hell happened here?
Why does Kyle look like he's talking to himself
:P
cunning fossil
No Plans to Update Soulbinds in Patch 9.2 Eternity's End
I am confused
I thought they said they wanted to update them in the devlog
cunning fossil
Wierd
lean yew
the amount of hatred on the wow subreddit
I don't get how people spend so much time endlessly hating on wow, it feels a lot like a guy who got dumped by his ex like 2 years ago and still rags about her
Sure i was a little disappointed by tier sets and the announcement overall was kind of "meh" - but theres a lot of cool things im excited for, and a lot of details we dont have
tepid fiber
There's a reason why I say that gamers are the worst thing about gaming
opaque pewter
Some of them just want to bring it down
upper pasture
I mean, it’s the internet what do you expect
lean yew
also - people HATE the story, I like it, idk why people hate it so much
i love wow lore
tepid fiber
Same
lean yew
idk when it became "cool" to hate on wow lore, but god its insufferable
upper pasture
Personally I love the new tier sets and I can’t wait to see the recolors
tepid fiber
It's cool to hate on anything, really
lean yew
its an online made up fantasy game - get over it
tepid fiber
That's what it feels like
upper pasture
I hope we get maw themed recolors.
lean yew
everyone hates on things for clout
upper pasture
Also why waste time hating something when you can just live your life
lean yew
i literally dont have time to hate on things like that - like dont they have a job?
Who has time for that
tepid fiber
Even asmonbald and baldular have admitted to flaming on the game because it generates more views
opaque pewter
That said, I do agree that it's a bit much. Other games and forum should be subject to the same. Then I'd have even less reason to browse any communities lol
lean yew
I also cant think of a game I truly hated
ancient jasper
Maybe when Blizzard decided lore shit should be spread out over 3 different mediums and leaves shit out of the actual game?
tepid fiber
If I didn't like something I just played something else
opaque pewter
I really love the books though
upper pasture
Nothing you can’t read online tho
tepid fiber
Mhm
upper pasture
Like TL:DR when you hear about it
lean yew
didnt the first wow book literally come out when wc3 was a thing?
tepid fiber
Even the comics you can read digital
upper pasture
There were books before WoW so lol
lean yew
so did you only like warcraft story in wc1?
tepid fiber
Well, Warcraft book. Can't really call it a WoW book before WoW lol
lean yew
when there were no books?
ancient jasper
So large plot points that effected the game were left out in WC2/3?
tepid fiber
Nothing critical lmao
lean yew
lord of the clans had a lot
opaque pewter
Novels tell stories with omniscient views while the game is limiting to your character's POV as much as possible
tepid fiber
Even now nothing critical to the actual game is left out--it's just more enriching stuff
upper pasture
That’s not even remotely fair and you know it. The story telling and scope of the game has changed so much since W3
lean yew
And not only that - even the oldest books had a lot the games didnt
tepid fiber
Warcraft is also FAR from the only IP that tells its story across multiple mediums
lean yew
you cant have a books worth of lore just ingame randomly, your really limiting your story if you only tell it from an ingame pov
the books provide a lot that the game simply cannot
upper pasture
Look me and Vynestra agree on something lol
lean yew
I only disagreed on one thing lmao
tepid fiber
A few of us are on the same page on this one lmao
upper pasture
I know I was joking lol
lean yew
And, technically I was wrong
upper pasture
World peace in discord
opaque pewter
The next book should recount Silvanas' story from her POV and her thought process up to now. It's something I'm looking forward to
upper pasture
I mean, I’m glad you were kinda right cause 9.2 news but I just knew at like 2pm it wasn’t happening on Monday lol
lean yew
I knew it was this or next week, I really thought the announcement of announcement was gonna be monday
upper pasture
But hey it’s here now
lean yew
Yeah, I assume ptr next week, but it could also be the first week of dec
I know theyll want to get it out before the major holidays, but may wait til after thanksgiving
bronze holly
Hope we can fly in the 9.2 zone.....
opaque pewter
Preferably not immediately though
opaque pewter
Maybe at revered status or something lol
crimson jasper
maybe it's a trait in that new system thingy
tepid fiber
I can see that working
bronze holly
Once we understand their language
opaque pewter
What would be nice is that it's granted after you collect all of those jumping zone puzzle stuff
crimson jasper
there was a arrow up and arrow down
flying and diving unlock?
xd
but yea l am fine with working to unlock it
overall happy with the 9.2 stuff really
bronze holly
What are they doing with covenants or have they basically been abandoned
Just more conduit upgrades?
upper pasture
No more renown. At least that much has been said
crimson jasper
seemingly it stais as it is, which is nice cause it isn't adding more and more to the system
tepid fiber
As long as they're used and not discarded
crimson jasper
only thing that's "new" and covenant related would be the legendary, since we can wear a normal and a covenant one
opaque pewter
The stamina boost is a nice almost passive way to nerf content over time
It feels better than a sudden nerf to bosses periodically I feel
deep pawn
Blizzard said the covenant stories are done
no more renown
Flying in Zereth Mortis is tied to zone progress
wide zodiac
(speculation) do the first ones look similar to brokers?
left arch
Why does Kyle look like he's talking to himself
They were commenting on Wynter’s reaction, as someone else was as well.
dense plover
(speculation) do the first ones look similar to brokers?
we havent seen a first one
all of the stuff shown were creations of the first ones
wide zodiac
will we encounter one in the fight with the jailer?
i hope so
it would make the boss fight so cool
dense plover
no idea - probably not
tepid fiber
I don't see why we would. It would incredibly trivialize them and take away their mystery
And tbh the mystery of them is one of my favorite bits
dense plover
if the first ones were still around, the jailer would likely not be able to do his thing
they likely disappeared a long time ago
why? who knows!
tepid fiber
Hell, if we do encounter one I'd prefer it if it was an incomprehensible energy being that we don't even see past screen blur
wide zodiac
will the jailer death cutscene be similar to arthas's death?
tepid fiber
Probably not
uncut lintel
Oh yeah, I hope not right away either
thank youuu, : ) walking in new zones is always enjoyable for me
dense plover
i dont expect them to kill the jailer
i think we will end up permanently trapping him somewhere
or something like that
tepid fiber
thank youuu, : ) walking in new zones is always enjoyable for me
Best way to learn a map is on foot, tbh
uncut lintel
if flying wasnt faster then id walk more in flyable zones 
🙏 so always good feeling to get a zone u cant fly in yet so i hope we cant fly in it till later
tepid fiber
I only fly when traveling--if I'm questing, it's ground mounts 100%
uncut lintel
imagine ground speed also 310
trail knot
imagine ground speed also 310 <:KEKW:654737817439567912>
Furry 🤓
strange falcon
I don't get how people spend so much time endlessly hating on wow, it feels a lo...
as tyler1 with league and asmon(before he broke the chains of addiction) said
"i cant quit because i'm fucking addicted man,but that doesnt mean i cant show my dissent for how shit the game has gotten"
marble nova
left arch
tepid fiber
strange falcon
also - people HATE the story, I like it, idk why people hate it so much
im not a lore guy,so i couldnt give you specific examples,but i believe they're mad about "bad writing" and characters that act smart only when the story says so, even nobbel,the resident big lore guy,dislikes the direction the story is going in and wasnt pleased at the 9.2 announcement
left arch
I’ve only seen people upset over the “men writing female characters” trope
Like with sylvanas and jaina and stuff
But I’m just going off people I have talked to about it
strange falcon
I really love the books though
great that you love them,but "the books should be complementary to the story,not have major plot points,which without them you dont even know why we went to darkshore in the first place", is what i've heard,and before you say "ah but that's their opinion"
blizzard agrees because they actually specifically said to their contractors not to put any major plot moments in the books after bfa's book
strange falcon
didnt the first wow book literally come out when wc3 was a thing?
wc3 had enough story to back itself up,you understood wc3 without the book, not the point
strange falcon
Novels tell stories with omniscient views while the game is limiting to your cha...
not showing what happens to other characters even without your character being that,does not lead to a good story,unless the entire thing is written like that from the start,like god of war remake for the ps4
strange falcon
you cant have a books worth of lore just ingame randomly, your really limiting y...
you can,but it would require them to actually care for the player knowing the story, a new player starting now,goes straight to bfa,they're like "who the F is jaina,why is she important,why am i here,who's this guy?" etc etc,
glass flicker
Eh, Jailer needed more development.
strange falcon
the books provide a lot that the game simply cannot
the game cannot because the engine hasnt been brought up to par to be able to, it's not a "this is absolutely impossible no matter what"
left arch
Dafire always does this when he’s not there for a convo and I find it so funny
tepid fiber
Oh is he mass-replying to a convo from hours ago again
strange falcon
Once we understand their language
how does understanding their language correlate with flying? do we have to ask them for a flying permit in their own language or they shoot us down?
left arch
He will get to the bottom eventually
glass flicker
Assuming Zereth Mortis will even have flying.
tepid fiber
He will get to the bottom eventually
It's the digging up convos that were already discussed, resolved, and wrapped up that gets me the most. Ah well, I don't miss seeing his posts 
strange falcon
I’ve only seen people upset over the “men writing female characters” trope
Like...
there's an entire subreddit for mocking that called r/menwritingwomen
this is only for the ridiculous ones,not mocking male writers in general,i want to make that clear xD
glass flicker
It doesn't matter what gender you are if your writing is shitty.
strange falcon
Eh, Jailer needed more development.
bargain bin thanos with no reason to empathize with the characters,and then they ask why the players dont understand the villain
strange falcon
Dafire always does this when he’s not there for a convo and I find it so funny<:...
i wouldnt want to miss episodes of the anime,i dont do it just here either,so you're not getting preferential treatment
strange falcon
He will get to the bottom eventually
my longest reply chain was 33,believe it or not
glass flicker
Shadowlands purely didn't have a steady story. Even BfA was better.
Again, window and mattress.
strange falcon
on that topic,since gumball cant see it,have this
https://twitter.com/MightBeKakio/status/1458870320228716544?t=A3uvh8eVTxPeXHQ-idLccA&s=19
now,the concept art looked amazing for most of the sets,but the ingame rendition not so much
left arch
tbh haven’t looked super far into the new patch stuff so I’m kinda ignorant but
That does look dope
silent urchin
It doesn't really help that they picked races with terrible body shapes and ridiculously oversized shoulders for half the images
silent urchin
they'll be replaced in about 3 seconds in the next expansion
left arch
I’m just kinda confused on why the leveling gear is so decked out and like, everything is so angelic
silent urchin
it's not actually leveling gear, it's the new class sets
left arch
Ohhhh
silent urchin
but they're mocking it as leveling gear because they consider it basic and not very good
Maybe there will be mythic variants that add back more of the flair that's missing from the concept art
Or all the animated glowy bits are just not in the static previews or something
left arch
I wouldn’t mind it if there was more diversity and like, more.. hints at what set is for what class
holiest warlock ever
strange falcon
Maybe there will be mythic variants that add back more of the flair that's missi...
Like the concept art does look good,im not denying that,the ingame version they showed looks eh
Also these are more "each class gets a different set" but im not seeing class identity in those sets, could have been cool to see a prototype druid,but i can understand why they didn't do it
left arch
Maybe they’ll be further revamped
uncut lintel
silent urchin
I think it's just an unlock everything with weekly gated currency that lets you choose the path through the zone. At least one of the interviews seemed to say it wasn't a player power system
subtle oar
XD
uncut lintel
I think it's just an unlock everything with weekly gated currency that lets you ...
its still a system
strange falcon
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/260539358891868161/908709125049946142/unknown.png
Reddit didnt like it e.e
silent urchin
reddit doesn't like anything
dull flame
cosmic beacon
The boost is now to 60 instead of 48/50
Kinda surprising but also not that they didn’t reduce the price considering how much faster levelling is this expansion
upper pasture
Did they say no new content until 2023 or they just trying to piss people off with unconfirmed bs?
strange falcon
To my knowledge they did say 9.2 is the last patch for SL, so the 2023 assumption is not unreasonable as they cant push out a new expac that fast without it being rushed shit
@upper pasture
cosmic beacon
Next expansion will either probably be very late next year or early 2023
Depending on if they delay it, 9.2 release etc
languid yoke
if we get 9.2 in like february or march I don't think it's unrealistic to have a november release
strange falcon
if we get 9.2 in like february or march I don't think it's unrealistic to have a...
Do you want another rushed release
cosmic beacon
I’d rather have them just spend as much time on next expansion as they need, but knowing shair holders and execs are gonna force it out for big money’s during the later months
deep pawn
This being the end of Shadowlands has me certain their goal is an expansion in November or December next year.
They need that q4 sales
cunning fossil
And then they'll watch those q1 2023 sales dip hard as fuck
It has to knock it out if the fucking park
deep pawn
subs matter much less than expansion sales.
cunning fossil
The expac after it will have barely any sales if the state of the game stays this way
It quite literally can not take a 3rd L in a row
It just can't
We're BAREL6 scraping by with 2 Ls Ina. Row
strange falcon
subs matter much less than expansion sales.
Subs matter enough for them to immediately change their tune on literally everything they said we,the players were "wrong" about and "didnt see the big picture" about and release 9.1.5 with a lot of the changes we asked in alpha/beta
cunning fossil
And we're lucky this L wasn't as massive as BFA and has a few reasonable excuses
strange falcon
We're BAREL6 scraping by with 2 Ls Ina. Row
What do you mean "barely" i still see plenty of people in this channel hyped for 9.2 and denying its hopium
The game is fine /s
cunning fossil
I can admit the game is in a sorry state AND be excited for new stuff Daf
I do not have to be constantly negative about it
deep pawn
Subs matter, but the huge one time number of sales from an expansion is much bigger. The number of people who'd buy an expansion and play 2 months and quit is high as hell based on past trends. That's $70 a player who's like that in q4. That's 5 months of someone who stays subbed in a lull. That's not including the digital CE items that people tend to snag too. Box sales also look really good on investor reports.
silent urchin
no you either think it's perfect or you're not allowed to enjoy it at all, those are the rules
strange falcon
Feels oddly quick
Im gonna shatter your worldview again with facts and logic,please excuse me
It is a phenomena caused when there is no change between a day and the next for a long period of time,
It happened during lockdown(ill post about it)
The fact we're 1 year in and it felt oddly quick,is because the drought has been so long that the days and the months have blended together so to the brain it feels like very little time has passed because youve been doing it for so long
cunning fossil
I suspected as much
strange falcon
no you either think it's perfect or you're not allowed to enjoy it at all, those...
Thats unironically what it is on twitter,
Wow devs specifically really adhere to that strictly,trigger happy block finger
cunning fossil
Not that I care
deep pawn
You can also tell by ATVI reports that they chase after individual customers who'll buy everything anyways. They want those people who will buy every mount and costume and boost hey put out. Every boost bought is worth 4 months of someone else who's just subbed and grinds exp.
strange falcon
You can also tell by ATVI reports that they chase after individual customers who...
Thats whales,and yes, the endgame meta for companies now is to grab as many whales as possible
opaque pewter
It's something that everyone highlights on financial status though if they have them
cunning fossil
This chat gets more depressing every day
glass flicker
It is what it is. And it's all downhill from here.
opaque pewter
Anyway, steering the subject away from money and more to something that affects players, I'm starting to wonder what genuinely interested people do want to see changed though.
In-between their lines of complains, I can read stuff like "everything" and "graphical overhaul" but I'm not sure those are satiable people. Most seem to just want to wish the moon or pile on the negativity
cunning fossil
It is what it is. And it's all downhill from here.
Not helping >->
cosmic beacon
Anyway, steering the subject away from money and more to something that affects ...
Tru, plus it seems any change they try to make to benefit the game they just get mocked and told they are copying etc
glass flicker
Hey, if you're gonna be depressed, at least go through with it. Let's cry in silence.
cunning fossil
Anyway, steering the subject away from money and more to something that affects ...
I feel like a graphics overhaul or azeroth revamp is on the table.
glass flicker
They'd have to overhaul the engine.
cunning fossil
And to be honest. As someone who is invested into the game and I really do like it alot
I feel like they should just
Idk
glass flicker
I say, make a new engine that supports actual armor, rather than paint on character models and add 3D bits later.
cunning fossil
Listen to us more. No need to make systems when the base game is good enough and has been for year
cosmic beacon
If the old zones looked prettier I’d be a lot more inclined to actually level alts and farm in those zones again
cunning fossil
If the old zones looked prettier I’d be a lot more inclined to actually level al...
Bot only this. Make them RELEVANT. This 8s the world of warcraft, not the World.of "The only continent we stay in for 2 years".
Like c'mon. Make me as a Legion Newbie experience older zones with a tang of new flavor.
glass flicker
BfA did a pretty good job of showing us more than a continent.
It also showed us Arathi and Darkshore, for example.
cunning fossil
BfA did a pretty good job of showing us more than a continent.
How so? We only got to go to
2 other zones
Which weren't revamped and were instead corrupted
swift copper
Does arthas come back?
cunning fossil
Does arthas come back?
No word of that yet
glass flicker
It's still more than WoD gave us.
cosmic beacon
Bot only this. Make them RELEVANT. This 8s the world of warcraft, not the World....
Ye, another thing I kinda like about the mage tower being scaled down and up is that I can go to old raids for more than mogs and mounts
It’d be nice to get actual use out of old stuff
cunning fossil
It's still more than WoD gave us.
Comparing anything to WoD is not exactly a fair comparison.
swift copper
They brought kel Thas and garrosh back so I hope arthas is next
cunning fossil
Ye, another thing I kinda like about the mage tower being scaled down and up is ...
Also it's content that is repeatable and evergreen
glass flicker
Comparing anything to WoD is not exactly a fair comparison.
I'm comparing it to WoD because it has the same product value.
opaque pewter
What would old stuff be used for aside from getting old stuff though?
left arch
This chat gets more depressing every day
Kinda why I haven’t been as active here lol, too many arguments and… stuff
glass flicker
Timewalking.
cunning fossil
What would old stuff be used for aside from getting old stuff though?
I don't know just make it relevant. Tell a new story. Introduce new characters to fall in love with.
Just make 8t relevant. Bring back some old memorable characters too
cosmic beacon
What would old stuff be used for aside from getting old stuff though?
Solo content like challenge modes or the mage tower that gives you more reason to do more than just vendor everything cause no invincible
cunning fossil
Imagine of we could go back to grizzly Hill and play it fully
As our max lvl characters helping to regrow the world tree
cunning fossil
Kinda why I haven’t been as active here lol, too many arguments and… stuff
Yeah
opaque pewter
That's the thing though, if the can't think of anything tangible and express it more in feeling, it's hard or impossible to satisfy that lol.
I'm understanding that you want multiple story threads happening at the same time rather than following the main scenario.
glass flicker
Multiple plots can have some issues. They would have to tie together at some point.
cunning fossil
Many small grounded stories would be nice.
Also, if they can't think of anything that we fans have come up with for years, then perhaps they aren't fit for the job
cunning fossil
Multiple plots can have some issues. They would have to tie together at some poi...
Not necessarily true. They don't always have to converge
glass flicker
Saurfang exposing Sylvanas is a plot point that directly lead into Shadowlands. Did anyone care about that, rather than Magni? Thought so.
cosmic beacon
Not everything has to directly related to the main story
cunning fossil
^^^
glass flicker
I can't think of anyone who thought "Oooooh, Magni called me CHAMPIEN, I guess I gotta do this world quest!"
cosmic beacon
One of the things that made levelling in like classic cool was because every zone was its own thing and didn’t relate to AQ or rag
cunning fossil
I want shit to be kept simple.and stupid. It does not have to be grand every time.
I just wanna be a hero fam
Or God forbid
And ADVENTURER
glass flicker
From poop collector to CHAMPIEN OF AZERITE.
cunning fossil
Not some lord or wharever
opaque pewter
It would have to be for everyone, so there would be some power upgrade and cosmetic to farm in the revamped area. It's not too different from the current approach
left arch
I really enjoy the Skyrim Dragonborn concept mk, give the “champion of Azeroth” a break
cunning fossil
It would have to be for everyone, so there would be some power upgrade and cosme...
Then do that? Do all the cool cosmetic stuff and such along with a nice story would be awesome.
And the power stuff doesn't have to directly be from the zone
.it could be fr leveling up, from gear, from the REGULAR things that give you power
You don't NEED a system to.8nvrease power
Man you could get it from professions
And I mean ACTIALLY get them from professions
glass flicker
CHAMPIEN! I'm tryin'a fight these Elementals but I'm dummy thicc and the clap of my ass keeps alerting them! I understand ye and Wrathion have the same problem.
cunning fossil
Not the catch up gear.
Maybe this is me talking out of my.own ass to be fair but like.
I was never a part of classic woe, nor do I really wanna be. But I can see things like gear other than trinkets having unique effects could be awesome.for the game.
A variety of enchants, gadgets, consumables from professions that feel cool and unique.
Like.old school engineering or enchanting
I love looking st them personally.
Just cool effects to make builds or whatever you wanted with
glass flicker
It would be cool to make professions mean something. Perhaps add a toolkit to your class.
opaque pewter
They'll have to be powered down over time or disabled at one point
glass flicker
Chemical Fury Warrior. Uses toxins on their weapons.
glass flicker
Outlaw Engineer. Uses bombs and grenades and a GUN.
cosmic beacon
Remember when grenades where actually useful 
cunning fossil
They'll have to be powered down over time or disabled at one point
Not necessarily.
cunning fossil
Remember when grenades where actually useful <a:KaguyaKek:865464844189433858>
I literally don't
I' a Legion baby
You don't have to make them irrelevant to be balanced I think
glass flicker
Scribe Priest. Reads scroll to put you to sleep like Deckard Cain in HotS.
cunning fossil
Just...just make them cool to use my gosh
cosmic beacon
I don’t remember, just a few memories of my dad bombing stuff during the early expansions
opaque pewter
They are still cool though
cunning fossil
How so?
What's the coolest thing about being a leatherworker in SL?
What's the coolest thing about being an Engi even?
cosmic beacon
Or add more stuff like how engineers make very good attachments for guns
glass flicker
Skinning pimples in Maldraxxus.
cosmic beacon
Even if it’s just small bonuses
opaque pewter
I meant whatever you found cool in tossing those bombs
cunning fossil
We don't even have mount this expac
cunning fossil
I meant whatever you found cool in tossing those bombs
Ahh sorry.
But like
If you throw a grenade instead of doing your rotation, you're kinda just
Dumb
glass flicker
Have you seen the skinnable pimples in Maldraxxus?
cunning fossil
Have you seen the skinnable pimples in Maldraxxus?
I havn'5 leveled my Leatherworking DH yet
Does sound neat tho :0
cosmic beacon
‘Skinnable pimples’ is vomit inducing
cunning fossil
I wantore
cunning fossil
‘Skinnable pimples’ is vomit inducing
Facrs
glass flicker
XD
cosmic beacon
I never want to read that again
glass flicker
Also, for the annoying pimples doing shit like this...
LOOT THE FUCKING MOBS. I WANT TO SKIN 'EM.
cunning fossil
Kek
But yeah. I personally would like to feel more grounded to the world, where my choices actually matter and what I do does affect the world around me.
I have YET to see the "Change" in the shadowlands they were talking about at 9.1s launch btw
The only change is that the sky is Redder and Blacker
Did I miss anything?
cosmic beacon
If the changes to professions next patch doesn’t include archaeology, in an ancient zone where life is created
Ima be sadge
cosmic beacon
Just free storytelling without having to make cinematics or quests
All you gotta do is give some neat rewards and little bit of lore
glass flicker
Who wants to count all the bald guys of Azeroth with me?
Either that, or shirtless guys.
Bolvar is on both lists, yes.
cosmic beacon
I’m down to count shirtless guys 
glass flicker
Johnny Awesome's best appearance was in Hillsbrad. Change my mind.
opaque pewter
But I'll give a concrete example. If a crafted thing provides 1% crit, it will stay 1% in relative power to when it was designed. You'll have to squish it for next expac because the new version should provide 1% instead.
All the things that provide relatice or or even static damage will have to be put down to make sure they're not part of the balance meta
cunning fossil
^^^
The meta will continue to be fucked with of without profession bonuses.
Like c'mon let us have fun shit and then adjust accordingly.
opaque pewter
I'm not sure if suddenly losing stats to 0 as you gain 1 level is a good compromise. You'd get a situation where you do godlike Crits because you're in that grey zone lol
glass flicker
Speaking of fun shit...
cunning fossil
I'm not sure if suddenly losing stats to 0 as you gain 1 level is a good comprom...
What do you mean by this?
glass flicker
[Survivor's Bag of Coins] is fun shit.
haughty houndBOT
Survivor's Bag of Coins - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=94154/survivors-bag-of-coins - PTR 9.1.5
cunning fossil
Oh are you talking about consumables?
glass flicker
You know what else was fun shit?
cunning fossil
Where is that from
glass flicker
Getting the Azerite Power that makes Slam hit for more than Execute. I miss BfA.
opaque pewter
But yeah level locking is something that's done when needed. The skill tomes and such are in that category
glass flicker
Where is that from
Pickpocketing a mob near Ravenholdt Manor with Glyph of Disguise.
glass flicker
Then going at the bottom of the stairs in Ravenholdt Manor with [Detection]
haughty houndBOT
Detection - https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=56814/detection - PTR 9.1.5
glass flicker
Speak with the ghost, and the bag is yours.
cunning fossil
But yeah level locking is something that's done when needed. The skill tomes and...
Level locking is necessary and that's fine.
But it doesn't mean that bonuses like that shouldn't existent
Detection is still a thijg
?*
glass flicker
You buy it from the Order Hall vendor that also sells you the order hall set.
Gnome girl. Go check.
cunning fossil
Swags
opaque pewter
Was this not the approach used on trinkets? I recall a specific one from legion that kept creeping up because it was infinitely scalable
glass flicker
Then get pickpocketing for coins.
cunning fossil
Was this not the approach used on trinkets? I recall a specific one from legion ...
Which would that be? I'm unaware of it
I think there was an OP trinket from Withered Jim
But that's because it had high ass secondary stats
opaque pewter
The one where you do 0 damage for a bit then explode that at the end as aoe
opaque pewter
Pretty sure it has the word soul in it or something
haughty houndBOT
Unstable Arcanocrystal - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=141482/unstable-arcanocrystal - PTR 9.1.5
cunning fossil
Whoops not thus
glass flicker
[Reislek's Ghost]
haughty houndBOT
Reislek's Ghost - https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=69846/reisleks-ghost - PTR 9.1.5
glass flicker
Pickpocket this mob for the Disguise.
cunning fossil
Thx
glass flicker
Yup.
cunning fossil
[[Draught of Souls]]
haughty houndBOT
Draught of Souls - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=140808/draught-of-souls - PTR 9.1.5
cunning fossil
Pretty sure it has the word soul in it or something
Yeah nvm I have 0 idea what u mean sry.
opaque pewter
I'll dig it up lol
cunning fossil
I'm sure I can think of what u mean thk
glass flicker
I miss Hellfire Citadel. Remember it gave us class trinkets?
opaque pewter
[Soul capacitor]
It was pandaria lol
haughty houndBOT
Soul Capacitor - https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124225/soul-capacitor - PTR 9.1.5
opaque pewter
I think this one got nerfed instead
glass flicker
I remember the class trinkets from HFC. Good times.
cunning fossil
What was bad with this Flame?
Seems neat
Well other than the fact that it does omega AoE
opaque pewter
Oh it was just too good and started to outstay its welcome by many people lol
cunning fossil
Then it gets nerfed
EZ
Not to the point where it's useless
But either bring it in line.or buff trinkets up to.its level
I prefer the latter
opaque pewter
Yeah so what I mean by that is that items do keep their coolness, just that you have to make sure it doesn't creep up one or two tiers up, or the next expac
cunning fossil
I feel like it can be ok for tiers to overlap
opaque pewter
Because the people that still see value in it do not want to go back in past raids to try and get it
cunning fossil
But the Ilvl stuff screws that anyways.
I get you
If the Trinket from.past raid tiers over shadows a curernt tier item
That means the current tier item is undertuned
Not that the previous items.is too op
glass flicker
Nazjatar gear effects were pretty cool. Why is Jaithys the only item with a on-use effect that isn't a trinket?
opaque pewter
It's especially hard to make a group at mythic level for past raids
cunning fossil
Nazjatar gear effects were pretty cool. Why is Jaithys the only item with a on-u...
Because no cool gear other than from trinkets I guess
cunning fossil
It's especially hard to make a group at mythic level for past raids
Again I understand that. Which is why I say they should just not make current tier items undertuned
glass flicker
Imagine if the guy who Garrosh killed dropped HD Gorehowl. That'd have been cool.
cunning fossil
Like that's just a powerlevel issue at that point
Not the fact that Trinkets have cool effects.
Could do the same with profession items.
glass flicker
Also...
opaque pewter
That's one of the reasons why the first tiers of the raids have very tame gear. The last tier will have these kind of bonkers effects that will need to be adjusted before next expac lol
glass flicker
Why does Grommash use regular orc dialogue in the Mag'har scenario?
And the annoying orc voice, too.
cunning fossil
That's one of the reasons why the first tiers of the raids have very tame gear. ...
Feels boring ngl. Every tier can have cool effecta
glass flicker
He has dialogue in that scenario. Couldn't they have recorded two more voice lines?
cunning fossil
Just make it so that the effects of next tier are better or the previous ones are netfed accordingly I think
opaque pewter
Yeah ideally that would be nice
opaque pewter
The nerfing part mid expac is that caused backslashes in the past. I think they want to avoid that
cunning fossil
That's fair. Still tho, should be easy to buff current tier stuff
I don't know what they're gonna do with the game and how it works past SL but it just has to be different and cool and fun.
And most importantly not chore heavy
Also I want more things like mechagom bracers
And weapons with neat effects perhaps
opaque pewter
There is a limit in how much you want to buff of course. Going the other way creates a different kind of negativity. With stuff that provides Crit especially, since it has a celling.
But yes that's the number explanation that can encroach in the fun stuff. They need to be significant enough since many people find fun in "perceivable burst", but you have to make sure you have enough room until end of expac
Too low and it's going to be "passive damage". The community expresses in absolute; it's either trash or good
cunning fossil
Clearly.
I know that from experwince
If u weren't BM.in 8.3
You weren't a character
You were an idiot with a gun
That COULD be BM
But you aren't so you're trash
opaque pewter
Yeah it's really unfortunate. It's not unique to wow. But it's especially present when you have knowledgeable communities that maths things out and share it to everyone
cunning fossil
Yeah
Not to say these places are bad.
But IDEALLY
We want those places to be arguing non stop
Cuz if they are
That means that there are a few viable strategies and none of them are clear winners
Again, they're good places. It's just that what I described is their best state
opaque pewter
People don't realize that you can clear +20 with pretty much any team, some classes even without stuff like covenant power.
It's just that people are only informed about the best
cunning fossil
Yeah
opaque pewter
:o
cunning fossil
Je
glass flicker
I want an Unhappy Meal with French Cries and a Die Coke.
cosmic beacon
like half the dps in my raid team were swapping to bm
till our raid lead was like, ye no we actually need raid buffs etc
cunning fossil
Kek
strange falcon
This chat gets more depressing every day
It reflects the state of the game
strange falcon
I say, make a new engine that supports actual armor, rather than paint on charac...
The concept art for the new tier sets is amazing,the ingame rendition looks like dungeon blues,and then they complain that we dont understand their grand plan
strange falcon
Listen to us more. No need to make systems when the base game is good enough and...
They made another system for 9.2,and whoever said it wasnt player power related earlier,wowhead proved you wrong,its required to equip 2 legos and craft tierset(if you dont do raid)
And its timegated.
Just what people wanted
strange falcon
Bot only this. Make them RELEVANT. This 8s the world of warcraft, not the World....
Guess what literally every other mmo does thats not wow?
Incredible i know
strange falcon
Also it's content that is repeatable and evergreen
But only lasts 2 weeks,then 1 week 6months after,
Incredible content amirite
strange falcon
Many small grounded stories would be nice.
Also, if they can't think of anythin...
Whether they are fit for the job or not is activisions job to decide,
Our definitions of "fit for the job" might differ from theirs
strange falcon
I don’t remember, just a few memories of my dad bombing stuff during the early e...
Archdad confirmed 🤔
strange falcon
But yeah. I personally would like to feel more grounded to the world, where my c...
"More grounded"?
Thats not whats on the menu for Mr Danuser's wild cosmic ride
strange falcon
Pretty sure it has the word soul in it or something
Think it was the guldan trinket from nighthold
strange falcon
I don't know what they're gonna do with the game and how it works past SL but it...
You're asking for a Christmas miracle there
Ok i finished reading the chat,
Everyone have a good evening
cunning fossil
christ
sullen dawn
cunning fossil
But only lasts 2 weeks,then 1 week 6months after,
Incredible content amirite
I said I like it because it is repeatable and ever green and I want more things like it and wish it was around for longer too
deep pawn
What the hell is an event mount being RNG
cunning fossil
What the hell is an event mount being RNG
It's not RNG tho
The Mage Tower? You just need the achievement
deep pawn
No, the anniversary one
cunning fossil
oh
strange falcon
oh
They made the 17th anniversary mount an RNG drop,
You cannot make this shit up
Its hard to be positive when they keep doing this shit year after year,they promised to change many times too
deep pawn
You don't make something time limited and also rng
strange falcon
You don't make something time limited and also rng
you cant stop blizzard,they'll block you on twitter and call you toxic
upper pasture
i mean....we don't know the drop % yet or if it's not 100% it could be like 50% who knows. no point in complaining until its live
deep pawn
As long as it's not 100% someone somewhere will do it a hundred times and not get it
young latch
at this point i'm just hoping for a brand new design philisophy for the next expansion
i think the company is kinda shaken to its core atm. either that or they're just gonna ignore wow and put everything into call of duty going forward
cunning fossil
at this point i'm just hoping for a brand new design philisophy for the next exp...
Facts
The company got rocked by both SLs failures as well as the pandemic, and the controversy
Blizz, not even Acti-Blizz, is not looking hit
At all
Change needs to happen other wise there may be no ho0e
plain violet
This new patch seem interesting, eager to see it on the PTR.
glass flicker
Still not fond of the story. But it may win me over eventually.
strange falcon
The "3D printer of gods" bit from an interview on the raid is already reached widespread use as the new "ripcord" level term
strange falcon
before it was okay if the story was ??? at times,because it wasnt the focus,the gameplay was,but since bfa/legion they're hardset on wanting the story to be the main focus,but they have a lot of old contend to,in which a good part of it was "rule of cool" and that in turn leads to them retconning stuff instead of working the current story around that.
but i am not a big lore guy,so i will abstain from giving detailed comments on what exactly is wrong
glass flicker
Oh God, I feel nerfed harder in the Legion timewalking than the writers nerfed Sasuke in Boruto.
No legendaries. Okay. No conduits. Also okay. No artifacts or Legion legendaries. But that was power we had back then.
strange falcon
And i assume they didnt tune the dungeons down to account for that power loss even tho they said they would
||blizzard moment||
glass flicker
It's kind of a mess.
strange falcon
And it only lasts for 2 weeks too so you have to bear the mess
strange falcon
You reminded me i should make a meme when i get home
glass flicker
You're welcome.
terse patrol
The "3D printer of gods" bit from an interview on the raid is already reached wi...
The “we 3D printed the pantheons” really does gut any meaning behind these new characters they’ve introduced.
Also implies that like
“Oh, we killed the Titans. Let’s print new ones.”
strange falcon
The “we 3D printed the pantheons” really does gut any meaning behind these new c...
"Oh azeroth is gonna get destroyed CHAMPIEN"
"Just print another one"
terse patrol
It really does gut the entire stakes of the setting.
opaque pewter
People will take whatever out of context at this point heh
pulsar minnow
The “we 3D printed the pantheons” really does gut any meaning behind these new c...
Not... really? The Shadowlands creates new afterlives for its inhabitants as more souls enter. That's pretty much it. We don't know if it created the Eternal Ones (very much doubt it did, it seems the First Ones made them, not the flying super pokeball). Even then, the First Ones have been MIA for a VERY VERY long time
I have a feeling their disappearance is part of Zovaal's motivations
subtle oar
Not... really? The Shadowlands creates new afterlives for its inhabitants as mor...
We do tho
It is stated clearly we are going to be fighting Prototypes of the Eternal Ones in the Raid
pulsar minnow
It is stated clearly we are going to be fighting Prototypes of the Eternal Ones ...
can you show me a link to that? must've missed it
subtle oar
They did. They called it the "3d Printer wing" of the raid wher ewe fight prototypes of the Eternal ones. I dont have the link handy, atm
dense plover
you mean the algalon thing that people are confusing with a first one?
its a constellar
its even named in the video
its not a first one or anything of the sort
subtle oar
-.-
dense plover
also no official source has called it a 3d printer wing - i can only find that as people posting that on forums
subtle oar
You are the only one ignoring the exact words "3D Printer wing" where we fight prototypes of the Eternal ones. Literally its being talked about my Talliesin, Bellular, Accolon and the WoW Reddit. How have you not heard about it?
dense plover
because fans made up that name
subtle oar
No
subtle oar
That is what it was called by a dev in an interview
dense plover
FIND THE INTERVIEW
pulsar minnow
To my knowledge the only thing they've referred to as the "3D printer of the gods" is the Forge of Afterlives
dense plover
^
which isnt about the entities
its about the actual zones
each afterlife is made by the forge
but the first ones arent
and neither are the eternal ones
subtle oar
https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcraft-interview-steve-danuser-morgan-day-eternitys-end-shadowlands/
How would you like to eat your Crow?
It was Morgan Day himself who said it.
pulsar minnow
How would you like to eat your Crow?
dunno if you were talking to me or peach but I never said that you were wrong I just hadn't seen the interview. Regardless though, we don't really know how this "3D printing" works especially with the absence of the First Ones. They mention that this proto-denathrius isn't complete, so I assume that without the First Ones they will never be complete.
So it's not really like we the players could just stroll up and just randomly create an army of Jailers
dense plover
thats fucking dumb
but also morgan day is encounter designer
so i hope he is at least half wrong about the actual background info
jade basalt
Nah it's been backed up by other devs in other interviews.
We'll be fighting prototypes of the Archon, Winter Queen, and Denathrius. At least those are the prototype Eternal Ones that have been named so far.
Zereth Mortis was basically their test realm. That's where they produced and tested everything from progenitor chicken and snails, to prototype Eternal Ones.
dense plover
well that is SUPER dumb
which yeah means elune is also one of these
or something similar
which ruins that too
wtf
did the head writer have a stroke or something?
this sounds legit terrible
and fully demystifies any interesting bits of the wow pantheons
fuck im glad i unsubbed
pulsar minnow
We'll be fighting prototypes of the Archon, Winter Queen, and Denathrius. At lea...
ugh. okay that's going a bit too far. they may be prototypes but they're still gods
I can sort of believe we can handle Denathrius, but not 3 of the Eternals
I love the Shadowlands setting but I don't know why they keep trying to make our characters gods when like literally nobody wants that
This is just beginning to feel like they just said "Hey, let's make the Titans... but make them bigger."
The First Ones should be these crazy mind-bending all-knowing mystical gods. Or does Blizzard just intend to make them into the uniting pantheon and they'll reveal the even more powerful "Zero Ones" or some crap
jade basalt
I can sort of believe we can handle Denathrius, but not 3 of the Eternals
It may be a "one a time" kind of situation where they come out of a machine or something, not necessarily a council/multi-target fight.
But yeah I agree it's a bit odd to have test versions of the Eternal Ones, they feel much less organic and original all of sudden.
It made sense for the Arbiter to have been manufactured, she's basically a sorting hat with no personality.
But for the others it's a bit of a shame.
subtle oar
dunno if you were talking to me or peach but I never said that you were wrong I ...
Nah, it was aimed more at peach cause Peach was being aggro. I know you were just confused and wanted more info
subtle oar
The First Ones should be these crazy mind-bending all-knowing mystical gods. Or ...
I believe, pre-Shadowlands, Ion confirmed the existence of a "Clockmaker" level being, who is above the First Ones. I dont have a source, but Dafire would likely back it up as we both watch Acco who covered it before SLands came out
More and More do I really desire the fan theory that this is all a Dream caused by Nzoth
pulsar minnow
More and More do I really desire the fan theory that this is all a Dream caused ...
Same.
This story is so stupid at this point. As cool as the Jailer is, he’s basically nonexistent in the story. He’s arguably gotten less screen time in Shadowlands than Huln freaking Highmountain.
limber mural
shadowlands failed because of no setup being done for its characters
subtle oar
I was originally was excited for the Death story but this expac has ruined all the mystery of Death and destroyed every single Races cultural beliefs of Death
limber mural
it's miserably failed to 'go cosmic' and thus i hope 10.0 doesn't try it again
pulsar minnow
I really hate their terminology as this being the “Shadowlands Saga”
subtle oar
Right?
pulsar minnow
Like… what happened? 9.0 - 5 seconds of Jailer screen time with Sylvanas and Anduin arguing. Everything else was just random filler covenant stories
9.1 - Jailer shows up for 10 seconds and leaves. More filler.
subtle oar
They shoehorned this shit into WC3 when it never existed
pulsar minnow
9.2 - Jailer probably dies because Anduin uses the power of friendship and the light
“Saga”
subtle oar
They are trying to make SLands out to be the Endwalker of WoW
And it is fucking laughable
limber mural
I legitimately believe the content team is deluded
There is no way anyone reasonable thinks this is high quality content
pulsar minnow
I just wanna go back to Legion at this point lmfao
Everything was better then
Killing a Titan then was REALLY pushing it
subtle oar
Instead of a consistent story and fun content, we get women turned into fruit, unnessecary politically correct changes, half baked systems, lackluster content and inconsistent, broken, uninteresting story
limber mural
hard disagree that the immature jokes being changed was unnecessary
that needed to happen, whatever you think about it isn't relevant
subtle oar
Even then, Tiri, we were killing a Titan with out own power. We would being helped by the Titan Pantheon and wielding super uber powerful relics
limber mural
the content itself is beyond saving though
pulsar minnow
Even then, Tiri, we were killing a Titan with out own power. We would being help...
Now a Titan has been reduced to a glorified council boss
austere gazelle
You'll see that there would be a " God Nursery " where Elune and the WQ would grow before being separated
subtle oar
OOF
austere gazelle
and where Aman'thul and the Primus would make buddy buddy discussing strategy
But TBH, my theory is that Elune was a First One that created a little sister for herself as the Winter Queen, and who later put her own consciousness into a new body she created for herself to live a life in her creation
but before that she created the Naaru's and all that ***
strange falcon
I believe, pre-Shadowlands, Ion confirmed the existence of a "Clockmaker" level ...
I have been mentioned
strange falcon
This story is so stupid at this point. As cool as the Jailer is, he’s basically ...
He's discount thanos,but if you only had 20minutes from avengers endgame as all you know about him
strange falcon
shadowlands failed because of no setup being done for its characters
Hello emu
strange falcon
I legitimately believe the content team is deluded
There is no way anyone reaso...
The "copium cult" of players as some say,are very deluded too "i had fun,so the content is fine" but yes in multiple interviews they've mentioned the devs having a """positivity dojo""" in their own words
strange falcon
the content itself is beyond saving though
Have a meme
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/428952492903104542/909418696533999666/mx5898irygz71.png
dense plover
man see
this is why there shouldnt have been anything above the eternal ones
like
in my mind the way i imagined this at the start is that the original arbiter made the heads of the different afterlives, and was a first one, the race of people that the jailer is the only remaining member of. Following some kind of mania or something, the jailer went rogue, killing the original arbiter and dooming his people, and in an act of justice or something, the heads of the other realms banished the jailer to the maw and locked him away by giving up a chunk of their power as the sigils. The arbiter was then made using the piece of the jailer they took as part of this great ancient battle to seal him away to prevent him gaining power and being able to escape and destroy the afterlife
so after 9.1 i imagined us going to the home of the "first ones" - the race that the jailer is, a decimated realm that has pieces of what we see in the maw but not corrupted as much as just empty
there we would discover that the jailer seeks the sepulcher in order to destroy the afterlife and put himself in charge of all existence, something even the eternal ones didnt know
honestly involving sylvanas in this story MASSIVELY fucks it
it wouldve made more sense for her to shatter the helm and then have her realize she was mind controlled or have the jailer chain her and steal her upon realization that she had been tricked
like imagine if in the OG cinematic, after shattering the helm, chains suddenly grab sylvanas and then 2 of the mawsworn steal her away into the maw
subtle oar
It would have been better if she was the Expansions Bolvar/Khadgar/Magni
dense plover
there is NOWHERE good to go with sylvanas' story now because they made her look DUMB as shit
if she had been tricked and then captured early on by the jailer, it mightve worked better
like even in the story we have so far, imagine if in the final phase sylvanas begins to realize her mistake and then the jailer forcefully dominates her and forces her to keep fighting until he can finish stealing the arbiter's core
THAT wouldve been better than what we got
its not great but it leaves room in her character for SOMETHING
subtle oar
Eh. Nah, she should have realized she'd been tricked at the top of ICC after breaking the Helm and then be like , "Ya know what? Fuck you, I'm gonna rain down an unholy fury upon you and unleash all of Azeroth on you,"
dense plover
no no, im saying if things had gone through to 9.1 as they have in game
but in the final phase of the raid they changed the fight a bit
thats a way they couldve given sylvanas leeway
right now it seems theyre going to go the - her soul was shattered so she was only acting on part of her impulses - route, which is lame
mind control is better than soul retcon nonsense
especially since the 9.1 raid end cutscene shows the jailer easily dominating azeroth's greatest champions
subtle oar
THB, this expac just shoudnt have happened. Theyve destroyed all the mystery of Death and ruined every single Races cultural beliefs of Death and the Afterlife
dense plover
i mean, technically all of those places can still exist
its pretty possible that the 4 main realms only became a thing when they were forced to look the jailer away
hell, we dont even know why part of the jailer was used to make the arbiter
like - the whole backstory to the shadowlands is still unknown to the point of nothing making sense
subtle oar
Because he WAS the Arbitor so, I assume, they needed his Anima and Power to make a new one to do the same function
subtle oar
We do tho. The Primus says it right after the Raid
The Jailer was the original Arbitor
dense plover
but like - we dont know how they stopped him being the arbiter
or why
or how the new one was made
i guess in zereth mortis?
somehow?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dense plover
also seems like we are never going to know why the brokers are running from their home
just fully abandoned thread
subtle oar
The Expac makes BfA look like a narrative masterpiece
dense plover
what a waste