beta-ptr-spoilers

[upper pasture]

are you hating every minute of your time logged in?

[pulsar minnow]

Nah

[upper pasture]

do you feel like your getting your $15 worth playing?

[pulsar minnow]

Nah. But I use gold a lot of the time

[deep pawn]

Barely, as of right now I'm unlikely to buy 10.0

[pulsar minnow]

The game just isn’t that fun but i still like the combat

[upper pasture]

great you were where i was back when WoD came out and i unsubbed cause i didn't enjoy the game anymore. i really hope the game makes improvement that makes you enjoy it again or you find some other game to fill the space.

[deep pawn]

WoD was better than this to me

[cosmic beacon]

WoD would have been so much better if it wasn’t for the content draughts

Cause the content is actually pretty good

[unborn glacier]

WoD was better than BfA. I will die on this hill.

[cosmic beacon]

Less content than bfa but atleast the content was a lot better, quality over quantity

[young latch]

I don't think the quality in WoD was good if you played Horde.

I hear alliance players had a much better time.

I hated everything about that expansion except spires and hellfire citadel.

[opaque pewter]

Going back to time gating, I think it's best used for power increase over time. It's actually an interactive way of making the content more and more clearable by the player without dev intervention. In the past, we used to nerf the bosses periodically instead

[strange falcon]

The whole arakkoa zone+dungeon was a great part of wod imo

Shame they scrapped the zangar sea zone along with the laundry list of other scrapped things

[austere gazelle]

If the new leaders of Blizzard really do listen to feedback, and have a margin of action not hindered by Kottick... I think we can see big positive change in the years ahead

And since Kottick influence and decisions are challenged by other shareholders atm, I'm not sure that he will have all enough of an influence in the coming month to mess with this

As for timegating, if done right, it can be quite enjoyable

For me ( it's my PoV ofc ) the weekly chest system is a good timegating. You do stuff for the week and depending on what you do you get a reward at the level of the time spent during the previous week. And the stuff you did still reward you at the same time

Concerning the story, they should remake the thing they did in legion. Different content for different classes, and not shorten the storyline bit to four quest a week

One thing they could do for the lore addict is associating secret hunts with lore rewards, and make lore item like Dark souls, items with description explaning stuff and you would put the pieces together and speculate to know what this all means

[strange falcon]

making it so the weekly chest doesnt give out duplicates or gear you already have equipped,would quell a lot of anger about it

[strange falcon]

make archaeology great again

[strange falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/260539358891868161/875656988288245761/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/260539358891868161/875657335782121492/unknown.png

[opaque pewter]

The QA churn is pretty much in all industries. Gaming one is particularly bad because it's still a sought off position

[uncut vault]

as someone who played both, I mostly do agree

Yrel's story during WoD, while not as long as it should have been, was a great and simple story that works really well (up until Draenor is Free, at least)

[young latch]

Nagrand should have been a lot more important than it was for the horde story.

And being sequestered off into frostfire ridge was pretty miserable.

Thrall had no meaningful interactions with his parents either which was bananas.

The alliance garrison was just much better than the horde one.

[deep pawn]

Frostfire was pretty dang good to me

That climax

I was mad that people kept sacrificing for us

[tropic trail]

How were there no meaningful interactions? They talked about family, war, honor, strategy, and even fought side-by-side

[deep pawn]

So many people died in our name in WoD

If anything Gorgrond was a bit janky. It was intended to be the levity after the seriousness of Frostfire and Shadowmoon before going back to the secnario seriousness

The whole Bony Xuk stuff came off weird to me

WoD's issue was they put in way more quests than you needed to hit level cap but also didn't force you to finish the story like Shadowlands

So Nagrand was skipped, a lot

[deep pawn]

Draka also proves that spirits don't get memories of any alternate parts of them

[vocal flint]

can you even say thats proof tho. at this point im not convinced that blizzard even checks its past lore.

[upper pasture]

Did WoD Draka die? (Legitimate question cause I can’t find anything online about it)

[vocal flint]

" Decades after the battle against Archimonde, Draka commanded a garrison in Nagrand against the Lightbound.[6] Draka and other orcs were left behind when the Mag'har group led by Geya'rah escaped to Azeroth.[7] "

so we dont know

[upper pasture]

So there would be reason to believe her WoD self is still alive which would be why her afterlife self wouldn’t have those memories yet

[vocal flint]

i dont think blizzard has placed any rules about other realities.

[upper pasture]

Yeah there was something somewhere about it

[vocal flint]

but the shadowlands we see is only supposed to be a fraction of what it actually is

maybe theres a place for alternate souls or w.e

[upper pasture]

Like there isn’t alt thralls running around all the souls merge in shadowlands

[vocal flint]

what i mean is once you dip a toe into multiverse theory. it all turns into chaos

i dunno that feels like such a scapegoat explanation lol

is like the burning legion being also one for all universes.

makes no sense. they are literally just evil space aliens

but then the twisting nether isnt actually just space either

[upper pasture]

Demons are special tho no? Aren’t they immortal? They just go to the twisting nether to be reborn?

[unborn glacier]

They permenantly die if killed in the Twisting Nether

[upper pasture]

yeah but its not like they die in the TN and then go to the shadowlands they just dead forever.

[terse patrol]

The true horror of the Shadowlands: if you don’t go to one of the main four covenants, you actually go to an afterlife where all of your alternate selves go. Like the Jerry daycare from Rick and Morty.

[slender quest]

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-rick-and-morty-true-gif-18268523

[young latch]

Nothing about orc spiritualism or anything that built on orc lore. Also I don’t even think Thrall told Durotan he was his son.

[tropic trail]

🙄

[young latch]

You roll your eyes but like… Nagrand should have been way more important than it was.

We needed more “what do they do daily as people” and less “here is what their cool but unsympathetic leaders do.”

[terse patrol]

@young latch I think they were still going on “don’t wanna mess up the timeline!!!” Even if the timeline for that world was already fucked.

[young latch]

I guess. It just meant no meaningful story for Thrall aside from taking out garrosh, which was wild.

Thrall isn’t even a character that I like but I still feel that was kind of a missed opportunity there.

[terse patrol]

imo alt Draenor is dying because either A.) the Breakers overpowering the Evergrowth is killing the planet, thanks to the Iron Horde.

Or B.) Draenor existing alongside Outland is causing Draenor to slowly die.

Like, A.) seems most likely.

The entire purpose of the Breakers was to maintain balance, not overpower the Evergrowth.

Aggramar knew if he let the Evergrowth continue unchallenged, it would consume all resources on the planet and all life would die.

So he created the Breakers to act as the counterbalance.

If one side wins, the planet dies.

Well, one side won.

[young latch]

The light could have killed all of the elements, which is like Draenor’s world soul IIRC, but I don’t think we saw any definite proof of anything. It was just Grom’s word against Yrel’s.

[unborn glacier]

Because he wasn't.

That Durotan and Draka were not his parents

[tropic trail]

And both are warriors anyway. Not sure why they'd need to take an aside from establishing a foothold and campaigning against the Iron Horde to talk about the nuances of orc spiritualism

(the majority of which has been gone over for quite some time already)

[young latch]

Well that I think the stuff that makes the world of warcraft interesting-- the folk tales, the stories, the daily lives of the people inhabiting a space to show you that they have whole entire lives we don't see.

Not just "here are the stings of battles."

Like, we see glimpses of what these things look like before the disasters but I think there round out the experience to make the battles and the conflicts more meaningful when they happen.

[young latch]

That's actually a fair point. But I still wanted it to go a little further than it did in terms of Thrall seeing where he came from looked like before demonic corruption.

[tropic trail]

Dude, I'm saying that orc spiritualism was covered before and has been touched on a lot--and was touched on again even more during WoD. Needing to take these characters aside to focus on orc stuff just because they're orcs is rather narrow

[tropic trail]

His origin story pre-corruption was as a baby

[young latch]

Yes but there's a difference between reading about a bible story and seeing people interact at church is my point.

[tropic trail]

Durotan, Draka, and Thrall do have conversations about family and war and tradition, even

[young latch]

I wantrd to see more of the "human" element that I felt was missing from the orcs in WoD in terms of world building.

[tropic trail]

Orc worldbuilding has been and is covered regularly in the setting and game--and there's not much world to build on when we're on a past timeline of an alternate version of the world our orcs know

[young latch]

So one of my favorite zones in the game is drustvar. They do a really good job of estabslishing tide sages, traditions, beliefs, the drust, and how people interact in that society.

[tropic trail]

Besides--WoD already does do a lot insofar as describing more orc customs and showing how settlements and clans interact, both in quests and dialog and lore items

[tropic trail]

Because those are all new and need to be gone over moreso than orcs

[young latch]

They needed to do that with the orcs and didn't imo.

[tropic trail]

We know orcs by this point

[young latch]

We kinda didn't though, which was part of the point of that expansion.

And even some of the Frost wolf stuff was new.

[tropic trail]

We don't need to do an origin story for every Spider-Man movie, and we don't need to do a cultural deep dive every time a race pops up in WoW when we've already been exposed to and gone over them

[tropic trail]

That's what I mean on WoD already expanding upon already existing elements

[young latch]

One of the reasons why it's very hard for me to ever get interested in orcs is that I feel like we never get to really see much of orc belief and storytelling up close. I think they could do a lot more with it and don't.

[tropic trail]

If you're missing out on orc culture and history then I'm not sure you're really paying attention

[young latch]

I mean compare Velen's contribution to the story in Shadowmoon to Greatmother Geyah in Nagrand and I think you'll get what I'm saying a little more.

[tropic trail]

We don't need a full intro level introduction to a race we already know like we'd need an intro to a new race or culture

[young latch]

They're both anthropological centers of the people.

[tropic trail]

Geyah has never been as big of a character as Velen

[young latch]

One gets a lot more attention and screen time b/c of his direct plot involvement.

[young latch]

Yes that's my issue.

Geyah needed a hell of a lot more imo instead of the warlords.

[tropic trail]

They were both introduced during TBC but neither had the same significance as far as character lenses. Velen is a faction leader and has been a leader of his people faaaaar longer than Geyah--she was just a character to expand upon Thrall and the orcs' story in Nagrand

This conversation isn't going anywhere

[young latch]

Yeah because you think it's fine that the orc society stuff is underdeveloped and I think it needs as much as the Draenai got. 🤷

[tropic trail]

It's not underdeveloped at all

Don't tell me what I think

[young latch]

But it never surprises me that alliance players liked WoD better because I do think they got a better pack. (Even though yeah, sure, it's ideal to play both factions, but it's hard to do that actively for both.)

[unborn glacier]

I loved WoD tbh

Its better than BfA

[young latch]

That's hard for me.

[tropic trail]

Subjective. Each are good and bad for their own reasons

[young latch]

I liked BFA's questing a lot better. I like Wod's last raid better.

[unborn glacier]

WoD has vastly better questing

[young latch]

Drustvar and voldun are still my favorite zones they've ever put in the game. But I know that's going to be subjective.

I didn't like stormsong valley.

[tropic trail]

Are you gonna give any reasons for any of this or just say "I don't like it"

[young latch]

That's just me not liking it. It's fine as a serviceable quest zone.

[young latch]

I did not like frostfire (terrain hell) or gorgrond but I am sorry if you did. xD

Spires was incredible.

[unborn glacier]

There is a reason why the WoD zones to this day remain the most effiecient questing zones in the game

[young latch]

Oh. You're talking about min/maxing. I'm talking about enjoying the ride and the scenery and the story.

[unborn glacier]

No. The effieciency is just another reason the WoD questing was so great.

[young latch]

I think if you know where to go in frostfire and have done it a lot it's probably more efficient.

But I know a lot of people who got lost or fell down many 90 degree slopes.

[unborn glacier]

If we're going by just straight "enjoying the ride" and scenery and story, that title goes to all the MoP zones, hands down.

[young latch]

I think many people would agree with you there.

Drustvar hit a lot of right creepy notes for me though.

Fuck those pig golems for real.

Fascinating, upsetting, zone, with a lot of rich lore and history and civilian interactions that brought it to life.

Pandaria is also great at that by the way.

It feels alive.

[unborn glacier]

Jade Forest and Valley of the Four Winds have the most lived in feeling in the entire game. Its way I love it so much

The newer zones of BfA and Shadowlands just feel more cluttered than lived in, imho

[young latch]

I agree. I think Revendreth in particular surprised me by how empty it feels, but that might be by design considering it's obviously a heavy homage to anor londo.

I like the little faerie cities in the trees in ardenweald but i just wish ardenweald was bigger

[slender quest]

https://twitter.com/RobinKhamsi/status/1426264092013068289

Robin Khamsi💙 (@RobinKhamsi)

That feeling when a scene you're working on is so emotional that it leaves you weeping at your desk 😭😭😭

Twitter · Aug 13, 2021, 7:27 PM

🤔

[pulsar minnow]

Hopefully it’s an Anduin cinematic. Make him a Paladin blizz I beg of you. Overwhelm us with the cool emotions

[unborn glacier]

Nope. He's going to be a Death Knight by the end

[young latch]

Clothies be like "we matter too." 😐

[pulsar minnow]

Nah. Manduin >>>> Everything else

[cunning fossil]

Death Knight Anduin would be lame ngl

It LOOKS cool but the WoW art team can make anything look cool so that doesn't count

DK Anduin doesn't feel like it's him ngl

[slender quest]

Anduin or Sylvanas cinematic I say. Probably both of them

[cunning fossil]

They're finally gonna fuck?

[austere gazelle]

Anduin X varian

[cunning fossil]

Incest do be wincest

[austere gazelle]

I did not wrote this in this perspective. Should have said " Anduin meet Varian "

[cunning fossil]

Oh lmao

Uhmm yeah

That'd be good

[languid fog]

Anduin is gonna die? Because I can’t see anyone there admitting to crying over Sylvanas death

(I would)

[unborn glacier]

I'd cry and comtemplate quitting

[languid fog]

This is a club that exists and I’m in with no ragrets

[tropic trail]

remember how everyone was yelling at us that Sylvanas will totally die in bfa? Damn all the insults people threw at me because I said they were wrong.
That was a HUGE pill to swallow for them when they realized they were wrong.
Even @tropic trail tried to insult me back in bfa with saying "Sylvanas will die dude, dont worry, you will still have all the porn. She will still exist in porn" . That was so f funny when gumball said that

wut

you don't remember that? was a dm chat. you hit me up when I had here a discussion going on how she wont die

We don't have a dm history, dude

ofc not, its a new dc account I created a year ago

And I've gone on record as saying I'm not a Sylvanas fanboy but she shouldn't be killed off

I feel like you're just trying to sling mud for no reason

no Im not, sorry if you think so (for the case you truly dont believe me, check out your dms from a deleted user if you still has it in your archive)

also Im going off topic here, sry

You're doing something alright

[upper pasture]

ib4 the crying is because Sylvanas reconnecting with her sister and coming to terms with what shes done is "so touching"

[pulsar minnow]

^^

[upper pasture]

because death isn't the only reason for tears my dudes

[pulsar minnow]

But honestly I wouldn’t really find that touching

[tropic trail]

that requires alleria and vereeesa toi be a part oft he plot. that something the writers dont like 😄

[pulsar minnow]

It’s just so hard to even try and relate with Sylvanas at this point

[upper pasture]

yeah, i mean honestly who even has their soul split by a sword these days gosh

[pulsar minnow]

I mean as in her motives and actions. I get the soul split stuff but it’s hard to even try to understand the thought process that goes into serving some god of death for 10 years and then suddenly turning around and going “wait, I’m not going to serve”

And does she just not realize this is the dude that is responsible for ruining her life

How did she never realize it

[upper pasture]

i mean i think it was more or less she didn't realize it until that point but then that would make the writers believe she has no critical thinking skills

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah and that’s just it. How does she just not realize the dude with domination runes everywhere, giant Stygian spikes lining his tower, along with an army of soulless husks tortured into doing his bidding is that same guy

[slender quest]

I believe Sylvanas truly thought she is not serving. I bet my money on it thats how they will write her in the novel. that she truly believed she is in a partnership

[upper pasture]

also. isn't Varian dead why haven't we seen him? or did we never recover his body so the remains of the buring legion have him in some sort of prison somewhere waiting for 11.0 to bring him back or something

[tropic trail]

because this is not a story about varian (or something like that the devs said)

[strange falcon]

i dont like tiridans new profile pic

[upper pasture]

well...i agree but its a possibly that we see him cause his sons involvement that could also be the "touching part"

[pulsar minnow]

I lost a bet

[strange falcon]

i see

[tropic trail]

Fel consumes souls like fuel. Gul'dan basically burned away Varian's soul and destroyed him

[strange falcon]

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/60338-blizzard-co-leader-mike-ybarra-streaming-comments-on-aoe-cap-and-offers-to-play-ff14/

[unborn glacier]

Based and AOE Pilled

[deep pawn]

I'm torn cause I really don't want to go back to BfA design where every pack had multiple, interrupt or stun or just die mechanics to try and slow people down, but I also do feel extremely limited on some pulls cause of it.

The fact they left some uncapped dps in is a big problem

[strange falcon]

Today i discovered 2 more wow streamers went to play FF, pilav and savix.

Also discovered that Lore(the guy that used to do dev interviews with ion back in legion/bfa/wod)
Is also playing FF14

[mossy meteor]

everyone plays FF

even the new co-ceo said he wants to play it

there's nothing wrong with blizz employees playing ff

[strange falcon]

This is the funniest thing to come out of this whole thing
https://tenor.com/view/uninstall-wow-gremlo-chibi-dance-uninstall-gif-22476212

[tropic trail]

Or you could play both 🤷

[strange falcon]

Tru,but currently wow has hardly any content worth paying for if you're only playing latest expac and arent an ATT addict

[tropic trail]

Worth is subjective

[strange falcon]

Also tru,but it seems this definition of worth is shared by thousands and thousands of people given they keep leaving because the content is not good in their eyes

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tropic trail]

K

[vocal flint]

i dont get the whole grand standing speech before leaving lol

its a fucking game

play one or the other or both or none at all

youre not helping anyone but yourself by being a petty spot in a channel that has no connection with blizzard

this trivalistic shit of " huff durr another leaver " or " omg steramers are playing xxxx game now ima go cry in a corner " is stupid when we literally SHOULD leave a game when its garbage to force the devs fix shit.

worst ones are the ones that are quitting wow for the sexual harassment claims and go play new world lol. imagine thinking that amazon is treating their workers any better. fair wages? laughs hypocrites

[strange falcon]

Its a mainstay of tradition on the forums

[strange falcon]

As many great people once said
"All gamer boycotts are just a 2minute cinematic away from abruptly ending"

[young latch]

Not all of us want to play the lolita game tbh.

I’d rather just stop playing MMO’s if everybody’s quitting WoW.

[mossy meteor]

i tried FF

it's okay

i quit after level 6 because i got bored

[young latch]

I’ve played plenty of JRPG’s in my life and I just have no desire for WoW with that flavor.

I put up with JRPG’s at best if the gameplay is fun. I don’t want to be immersed in them for that long.

[strange falcon]

i dont see the connection with "lolita game"
lalafell may seem like children,but they're no less cruel than gnomes

if you want a real "fully sexualised lolita race" try TERA online or any korean mmo

[strange falcon]

if you dont want to be immersed in them for long,then best not play Persona 5 Royal,that game's 120hrs,despite the majority saying it's one of the best JRPGS we got recently

[slender quest]

Actually, lolita means a child (or someone who does look like a child) that is sexualized.
That makes lalafell not being lolitas, but they look for sure like children which is a YUCK for me anyway.
You cant compare warcraft gnomes with lalafells because gnomes look like small adults.
a perfect example of a "lolita" is like @strange falcon said that Elin race from TERA. a heavily sexualized children race who hides themself behind "but in lore they are super old bla bla" bs

[strange falcon]

i totally agree that them looking like children is very "yuck" as that was most streamers and my own first reaction too,but they surely act more like adults than the actual "physically looking" adults so you tend to see them as small people like i ssaid with my comparison to gnomes

[foggy abyss]

Tera is the lolita game

[strange falcon]

they are so sexualised(the elin from tera) that when they did an official western release,they had to censor a looooooot of armor,because it was too revealing

[foggy abyss]

FF is far more immersive in it's story than WoW, therefore if you can't handle diving in the main story

you won't enjoy it

[strange falcon]

i remember when stronk didnt have an FF profile pic

[unborn glacier]

Yes you can

[young latch]

1-60 sucks storywise

[vocal flint]

1-60 story might suck but still better than the wow story lol

[young latch]

i don't agree

[vocal flint]

it actually gave me characters that i hated and liked for reasons beyond " i am bored of this npc please kill it already "

the story from 1-60 stays relevant all the way to endwalkers same for the characters and then they add more. the characters evolve and better themselves. learn from their mistakes and actually dont feel 2D

you know actual writing

[opaque pewter]

Let's get back on topic please

[vocal flint]

? what topic lol

[opaque pewter]

Anything but that discourse lol
It's typically something we'd see in the random/other chat

[vocal flint]

dont have to read if you dont like it mate. its a conversation.

[young latch]

i mean in fairness it's not 9.1 spoilers

[vocal flint]

not like theres anything else to spoil

all content is over for what 6 months ?

lore related anyways

[tropic trail]

Was that off of an official statement or are you assuming

[vocal flint]

you think blizzard is going to release new story content off 0.x releases?

they have never done that. not in their current state either

[opaque pewter]

Some people put signals in this channel because the expected topic that was discussed here was pretty relevant. It would be nice to keep it that way

[tropic trail]

I don't assume, I wait for statements and patch notes

[vocal flint]

thats cool but youre not myself. and for a fact there wont be any new story content for months on end

you can quite me on that one in 6 months if you want

[tropic trail]

It's not a fact unless it's officially stated

[vocal flint]

because there never is any

and? since when does blizzard states officially there will no be more story content after it ends ?

[tropic trail]

Didn't say they did

[vocal flint]

do they ever go " content is done for 6 months guys pack it up ! "

[tropic trail]

Didn't say they did

[vocal flint]

yet youre saying that youre waiting for an official announcement that the story is over till 9.2?

🤔

[tropic trail]

You can't state it as fact otherwise 🤷

[vocal flint]

thats beating around the bush

[tropic trail]

Alternative facts, sure

[vocal flint]

but if you want to die on that hill. go for it lol

[tropic trail]

I'm not arguing anything 🤷

[young latch]

I like having a servicable story in a game but like... as a person who reads both books and visual novels, neither ff14 nor wow has a decent story compared to non-video game stories, sorry lovelies. 😛

[tropic trail]

Lmao no shit

[vocal flint]

there will not be any new content coming unless blizzard announces. if there was something coming along like next month they would have announced it 2 months ago

[slender quest]

6 months? I dont think so

9.1.5 should come soon on the ptr

[vocal flint]

thats fair. although the quality of story in ff14 cant be compared to the one we got in wow. raiding and dungeons i think wow wins. story they are far behind ff14 tho

x.x5s are just balance patches with zero story content

or emergency patchs to fix terrible mistakes

[young latch]

I like wow's character's much better than ff14's as a base line but wow needs to stop giving us twists and invest in the meat of stories

[vocal flint]

yeah im def more invested in wow characters

i wish they would stop doing em dirty

like how jaina and thrall are just bridge makers at this point

[unborn glacier]

How could anyone not like Raubahn and Nanamo?

[young latch]

the only ff14 character i was interested in was tsukoyomi and she ded

[opaque pewter]

I think people are confusing story and storytelling a lot

[unborn glacier]

[vocal flint]

raubahn arch is great

dont care for nana

[opaque pewter]

But yes, it would be nice to have better storytelling. I don't know the cost of that though

[unborn glacier]

[vocal flint]

lol

[slender quest]

to be honest, I believe many people overhyping the story of FF. I played FF now for some time and I dont think the story is good at all. decent, but nothing special to me.

What makes me really love the FF story is the story telling. The way your character is a part of the whole story is just awesome. The way how you explore all the characters, from villain to good guy is exactly what I want from an MMO.
Warcraft should copy the story telling of FF

[young latch]

cost isn't the problem moreso than game devs thinking they can be writers and aren't as good as it as metzen was

[vocal flint]

look i play a lalafell but i dont care for the rich girl having mid life crisis at the expence of her nation

[unborn glacier]

That's... did you even pay attention to the story? Lol

[young latch]

it's standard fare ff jrpg writing. it's not terrible but it's not, like, good for people who don't love jrpg writing.

[opaque pewter]

There is the technical aspect to present it, which I don't think a lot of resource is put in

[vocal flint]

i played realm reborn ... a few years ago. the strongest points might have evaporated leaving only the angry ones. yes i know her plight was more than that im just being fatecious cuz nanamo >...>

[slender quest]

exactly. I'm not the biggest fan of jrpgs but I also dont hate them

[young latch]

yeah same

[vocal flint]

also fuck all of the leaders when they tried to take credit for all the work and ducked out when the table flipped

i guess that was pretty realistic on their part

[unborn glacier]

Yeah, I cringed at that

[young latch]

i just get annoyed sometimes when people say wow doesn't do character development when the entirety of bfa was about jaina's character development and just forget it entirely

[vocal flint]

some people also dont play alliance

[unborn glacier]

I've just started Heavensward recently

[vocal flint]

from horde pov. jaina was just a crazy lady bent revenge then suddenly got a hardon for vayne

[opaque pewter]

It's difficult for many people to see since there are many threads. The game does not force you to experience or play them all

[vocal flint]

most people playing only horde didnt even get to see little lions friendship with vayne in pandaria lol

[young latch]

i play horde mostly but her character development was still inescapable

[opaque pewter]

But if you are able to see them all, it's pretty satisfying

[tropic trail]

I play both factions because I think they both have pros to them

[young latch]

i don't even dislike jaina i just thought her indecision was exhausting

[vocal flint]

i just hate how useless they currently are ..

[opaque pewter]

She's great in the books too

[vocal flint]

i wish they would have added more of em in the raid at least.

[young latch]

"my racist dad who i let die was right actually-- wait, no, now that i have healed and earned my mother's respect, my racist dad was in fact wrong."

Jaina pls make up your mind

[vocal flint]

make em part of the encounter besides TAUNT THE ADDS WHILE I MAKE A BRIDGE

in phase 3 of sylvanas the npcs are so useless they literally just stand still in a square formation and anduin is slapping em

[opaque pewter]

How would you change it without causing interruption?

[young latch]

i think the game also needs to stop hordeshaming when so many ppl play the horde b/c it's like... "no, we are not in fact interested in feeling like shit for playing the faction we like for 2 expansions in a row"

[vocal flint]

have the npcs do a big dmg on sylvanas every say 5 percent. where you gotta jump into the middle ( half the raid maybe ) to defend either jaina or thrall while they cast something to do a ton of dmg to sylvanas > also make sylvanas go to 30% instead of 50%

[foggy abyss]

50-60 is amazing

[strange falcon]

1-50 sure,but if you say heavensward(50-60) sucks,then you might have angered literally the entire FF community ready with pitchforks to cancel you on twitter

😂

[foggy abyss]

You can not agree

but don't claim it as a truth

[vocal flint]

50-60 made asmongold care about the story.

thats a fucking feat. hes the typical skip and play guy

[young latch]

oh nvm i just forgot that's when heavensward starts

heavensward is good

[young latch]

i don't give a shit about what that person thinks lmao

[opaque pewter]

He's a ticking bomb anyway lol

[vocal flint]

he legit stopped playing 2 hours into a stream when its usually a 6 hour stream because || he saw hauchefant die ||

[foggy abyss]

Who is ?

[strange falcon]

you're completely and very conveniently leaving out the fact that a game has to be interactive, while a book or a movie doesnt,
the medium makes a massive difference and you can see this already in how many books dont translate very well to movies,same for manga

[vocal flint]

just using him as an example cuz someone who hardly ever cares about the story is actually following the story lol

[young latch]

ok but the dragon voring a soul part was stupid

i like it besides that

[foggy abyss]

What moment

I don't recall that

[vocal flint]

im trying to remember too.

[opaque pewter]

But yes, the idea of incorporating NPC in the encounter damage-wise is good and all, as long as it doesn't create so many moments where the player/raid is in control

[young latch]

vn's are interactive

[strange falcon]

even assuming you like every piece of story content, the current major problem with story in wow,is that it moves between patches,meanwhile FF does the courtesy of providing full-start to finish stories in every patch,therefore not angering the lore-buffs for being left at a cliffhanger literally every patch

[vocal flint]

sure but beats having 4 npcs being moles while one is wacking em

[young latch]

wow actually does great storytelling for its little quest zones.

[strange falcon]

vn's are literally clicking "next dialogue",they're on the same level as wallking simulator in terms of "is this actually a game or an interactive book"

[foggy abyss]

WoW's story is downright a pile of garbage

It's a fuming dumpster

[vocal flint]

3 expansions to end the ascian storyline. no retcons needed

[young latch]

its long term story with its major man characters is the bad thing

[foggy abyss]

I think it's the best thing

[young latch]

questing is almost always good

[foggy abyss]

Oh

[vocal flint]

in general my main gripes with wow is not the story. but the stagnated design in it

[foggy abyss]

we talking about WoW

[young latch]

yes

[strange falcon]

i think he's refering to ||hraesvelgr voring shiva|| o.o

[foggy abyss]

Nah WoW's quest are better that I agree

[foggy abyss]

When did that happen ?

[young latch]

yes lmao

[vocal flint]

its implied

that they did da dirty

[foggy abyss]

Well yeah

they boned

[opaque pewter]

Yeah I get that the NPC in the mid is a little silly.The intent was to say that were busy fighting each other

[foggy abyss]

Dragons bone asexually btw

[vocal flint]

well if youre asking if they showed it

[young latch]

if by boned you mean he ate all her bones

[strange falcon]

we've been getting "legion,but faction war" "legion,but in the afterlife!"
we havent got anything actually new in a while

[young latch]

romantically

[strange falcon]

im not talking of parasitic systems btw

[foggy abyss]

Systems

systems

and systems

[vocal flint]

thats it

its always > expansion / new system > 9.1 new island 5 dailies 30 rares 50 chests rinse and repeat

[foggy abyss]

Because the devs don't care

they don't even play

[young latch]

i think hand crafting legendaries is the cool new thing that we got this expansion

[strange falcon]

i'd say "the people who have the power to make decisions dont play"

[foggy abyss]

Oh crafting legos is cool

[strange falcon]

i know a lot of devss who do play

[foggy abyss]

except I need to farm Torghast to craft it

[vocal flint]

9.2 will either be a new island or if they run out of time it will be 2 invasions in azeroth and maybe they will make the sepulcher a raid

[foggy abyss]

Yeah more accurate

If they make a new zone for 9.2 I'm laughing until death

[young latch]

i main mage so torgast was fun to me but it was a slog on some other things like priest

[vocal flint]

would you rather 2 invasions in durotar and elwin forest

[foggy abyss]

I used to main war

[vocal flint]

lol

[strange falcon]

druid is broken in torghast so yes

[foggy abyss]

trash

dogshit

Torghast was unbearable

[opaque pewter]

A new zone would be nice and ideal though

[foggy abyss]

Woo yeah

new dailies

[young latch]

that is fair

[vocal flint]

i think at worst well get the bfa treatment

[young latch]

but then again you could not pay me to ever play a melee dps in wow

[vocal flint]

well get the nazjartar then azeroth invasions

[strange falcon]

literally everything with blizzard starting with WoD is "man,this had so much potential and could have been so much better if they put the required polish and time into it"

[foggy abyss]

SL is better than BfA

[strange falcon]

every SINGLE THING

[foggy abyss]

I unironically hope WoW will die from this bullshit

[vocal flint]

only reason sl is currently better than bfa in my opinion is because we dont have CORRUPTION RNG BOGALOOO YET

[foggy abyss]

And actually perform good

If u ask me WoW needs a reset

[strange falcon]

i find it highly unlikely they'll do a "realm reborn" deal

[foggy abyss]

Idk have Thanos wipe out this timeline and rewrite a world or something

I just don't want to cope with Sylvanas anymore

[strange falcon]

only the japanese have thatt kind of balls

also tthe reason japanese devs can come outt in cosplay,instead of suits

[foggy abyss]

Hence why I'm glad FF is getting recognized

That'll inspire other devs and MMOs

[vocal flint]

i hope the jailer opens the sepulcher door only to find the void lords on the other side and him go " BUT BUT I THOUGHT THIS WAS WHERE I FIX THE MACHINE OF DEATH " and the void lords are gona be like "nope" as they fucking bore him.

[opaque pewter]

Despite not liking some aspects of it, I don't think it's ideal. There is lots of legacy

Might as well just do a new IP lol

[foggy abyss]

won't happen

[vocal flint]

one can dream

[young latch]

except FF isn't winning b/c it's better, FF is winning because wow is just actively shooting themselves in the foot

[strange falcon]

like,im not saying FF is perfect,like many FF whiteknight simps,
FF has just as many if not more flaws and bad things than wow,
but currently the parts that "matter" are better than wow

[foggy abyss]

Well sounds closer to a nightmare

[young latch]

a lot of us don't want ff

we want better wow

[foggy abyss]

Nah, FF is performing better because people finally give it a shot

look at Asmon's chat

2 month ago

[young latch]

no thanx

[foggy abyss]

"Weeb "

" Weebs in"

Now people actually dansgame at WoW

[vocal flint]

you should see 4chan

[foggy abyss]

And it's the same in every chats

[vocal flint]

they are FLIPPING OUT

[foggy abyss]

Look at /wowg/

the FF / WoW debate is sterile

but if you think that FF is winning because WoW is bad

[strange falcon]

the 2 4chan comment compilations were hilarious

[foggy abyss]

You're coping

[strange falcon]

😂

[vocal flint]

" hes getting to heavens ward. its over "

[strange falcon]

"he saw the vault cinematic,ion pull the ripcord before itts too late"

😂

[vocal flint]

" its okay as long as he dont get to hilde "

[opaque pewter]

Anyway, back to making the game better

[vocal flint]

" he saw hilde FUCK "

[young latch]

no i'm playing the sims 4 instead b/c friends quit the game over a content drought and also the sexual harassment scandal

[strange falcon]

we're not devs,and the devs also wont see this channel for feedback, so yea

[vocal flint]

they really need to just get off the fucking legion mold and try new shit.

[foggy abyss]

?

How does that have anything to do with what I said

[young latch]

wow would be fine if they made content

[opaque pewter]

Considering all cases and audience (and resource) what would you think is the best course?

[foggy abyss]

I said that if you think FF is performing better because WoW is shooting itself in the foot

you're coping

No

WoW would still be dogshit

[young latch]

they are not currently making content

therefor

[foggy abyss]

The Content is boring and repetitive

9.1 added a lot

it's just boring and shitty

[young latch]

it's obvious ppl will play the game with content

[foggy abyss]

adding more shit to your shitcake doesn't make it taste like a 5 star cake

[young latch]

the raid is good tho

it's just there isn't stuff for other ppl

[foggy abyss]

Raiding is all WoW has

If you don't raid Mythic

or grind Glad

There is nothing for you

[strange falcon]

"good content" and "bad content" are both content,but a parasitic system that gets deleted in 2 years leaves your players frustrated, a new core system makes your players more engaged

[opaque pewter]

What else would you put in?

[young latch]

ff14 gives ppl a robust mog system and crafting

[foggy abyss]

FFxiv has far more

[vocal flint]

im not an expert by far but. we have gone from classic where quests were prolific all over the place with no song or tandem to. going to a town and already knowing that there will be 4 side quest 1 main quest and a chain quest to another town that will give you exactly the same. one quest in each area will give a chain with a blue at the end and a 1 or 2 greens. and this is literally the early content that everyone sees. patterns are as easily discernible as this are bad. making it more organic would help. not everything needs to lead to something. sprinkling random quests would add to a natural feeling world. this is the start however

[opaque pewter]

Would a better crafting system make it better?

[strange falcon]

the answer is not in stacking more stuff into the 3 pillars,m+ raid and pvp,but
adding "content" that supports those,or is a good set dressing while you're not actively doing the 3 pilllars

[young latch]

uhhhh

i think it wouldn't

but some ppl want it

[strange falcon]

you need things to do,when you're not raiding/pvp/m+,
currently the things you do in that case,are very tedious,boring and recycled for 3 expacs

and people are tired of it

[foggy abyss]

It has High end content
PvP
Housing
Relic Weapon Grind
Optional Trials
Optional Alliance raids
Actual important crafting system
Ocean fishing
A socializing community that often talks in /say
A PF that isn't filled with boosters
Devs actually ban bots
Devs listen actively to the community daily
Mount farm that isn't totally dice rolling

And ofc the MSQ

which itself from ARR to the end of ShB is ez 200 hours

And it's not shitty weekly caped content

[strange falcon]

one thing you can fault the pve side heavily for,is that there is no reason to run pve stuff again after the first time,excluding current tier savage for gear

[vocal flint]

the pvp is kinda garbage tho

[foggy abyss]

it's content that you can grind actively

[vocal flint]

lol

[foggy abyss]

It's subjective, I find it really fun tbh

[vocal flint]

wait not the pvp the arenas i mean

[foggy abyss]

not on the same level as WoW though for sure

[opaque pewter]

Yeah pretty subjective lol

[strange falcon]

i agree yes,also very few participate in it unless its at the start of the season

[foggy abyss]

I think the main reason FF PvP is dead

[young latch]

i hate wow pvp too tho so i have no horse in that race

[vocal flint]

wait are we talking wow or ff14 pvp

[foggy abyss]

is because People tell new players "PvP suck"
So new players try to Q for it, but it's empty so they go to people and say "PvP is dead"
And you repeat the cycle

[vocal flint]

wow pvp is fine. if you wanna get in you gotta go in hard anyone complaining about wow pvp hasnt played other mmos pvp

[foggy abyss]

PvP is ok-ish in SL

[strange falcon]

even though i like FF mostly,i could deconstruct most of the things cited here,but chat is going too fast 👀

[young latch]

but if you don't like the world of final fantasy, you're never gonna get interested in it

[vocal flint]

ff14 pvp is complete hot garbage. if anyone says otherwise they are nuts

[tropic trail]

Gamers are the worst thing about gaming, I swear

[foggy abyss]

Yeah that's why I said that if you can't get into it

[opaque pewter]

It's pretty much what I can gather lol

[foggy abyss]

it's not for you

[vocal flint]

ive done arenas in ff14 and gotten the rewards. its not fun. half the time youre not in control. cc meta is ridiculous and whoever gets locked down first wins

[young latch]

i think it's sad that wow did some really unique thing with fantasy races

and ff14 is bog standard fantasy races with no twist

[foggy abyss]

I agree on that

[strange falcon]

people are the worst thing about earth,yes

[foggy abyss]

FF is more well JP

[vocal flint]

they just copied ff11 races and called it a day

[foggy abyss]

JP focuses a lot more on good looking characters

Instead of really Original characters

[strange falcon]

so bfa pvp

[young latch]

which is why i feel like it's a wave of generic appeal drowning out something truly unique that we won't see again

[vocal flint]

yeah but 5v5 not 2v2 or 3v3

everyone is beautiful in ff14 yeah. even if you try to make an ugly carracter hell come off as silly instead

[strange falcon]

yeah,but if you have a cake,thatt looks very unique and nice,and then once you start eating it,you see it's all shit-tasting,then that one unique thing doesnt amount to much

[vocal flint]

and lalafell are lalafell

[cosmic beacon]

Lalafels?

[vocal flint]

that

[foggy abyss]

Only Original race tbh

[strange falcon]

all lalafells are pure evil

[foggy abyss]

is Hrothgar

[vocal flint]

theres nothing to say about lalafels and their players

[cosmic beacon]

Disgusting race

[vocal flint]

evil burn em all

[foggy abyss]

And I'm so pissed that Male Viera come before Female Hroth

[opaque pewter]

Well

[strange falcon]

the ERPers are very pleased

[vocal flint]

you know tha yoshi p makes constant remarks about lalafel being eaten in world quests

theres a reason for it

he just wants em all dead

[strange falcon]

gnomes get crushed into smoothies all the time,same thing

[foggy abyss]

He mains a lalafell

[vocal flint]

https://external-preview.redd.it/RSQRGEaR4r9yRQ5bcq4JEiGbgNGId1tdSLixxczQyiU.jpg?auto=webp&s=2637cb6ff449c7db12f7e853e1826b44039df6b1

[strange falcon]

but he plays a lalafell,and even made a house in ShB where only lalafell can enter

because the door is tiny

[young latch]

gnomes look like old ppl, lalafell look like actual very young children

[vocal flint]

its just a cover

[vocal flint]

its just a cover

https://external-preview.redd.it/CaPuiAdF9RJRHgrCFCp77thyTR2_lUX0hTRGgmPXBG8.jpg?auto=webp&s=28d1988a50eacb47c0429513f4a4d4e6a7be8412

[strange falcon]

we've never seen lalafell children

O.O

[opaque pewter]

Gnomes seem to be often presented that way yeah.
But at the same time, it seems that the JP side don't want to err much into the old/not-pretty aspect

[vocal flint]

they are in some animals belly

cant really make "old" looking characters. you end up with a gray haired guy with physical sculpture bodies

[opaque pewter]

I mean in general

When everything is pretty and young, nothing really matter
It's interesting how the audience is different here. I think I recall a movement for trying to revert the male elf since they looked too good/standard. Same for female orc

[young latch]

I'll play final fantasy if they actually add that werewolf race but they're never going to when they can add just another woman with animal ears race

[strange falcon]

you mean hrothgar

[young latch]

oh, another cat race

to go with the cat boys

[vocal flint]

im sure there is a fox face that can be dyed to w.e fursona you are

[opaque pewter]

If they do that it's going to be another human build with animal face

[strange falcon]

https://imgur.com/XEWrPeI

these guys

[opaque pewter]

exactly lol

[vocal flint]

slap fox mask and put on the pants that give you a fox tail and bam you got a buff fox

[young latch]

it's just not the same

also no hat compatibility still

[strange falcon]

okay dude

[vocal flint]

i dont think ive ever seen an mmo with a playable fox person

[young latch]

that would be wow

[vocal flint]

no and no fuck vulpera

[opaque pewter]

Isn't vulpera a fox?

[strange falcon]

now,im not the one to tell people what to play,
but now you're just nitpicking to justify your copium

[vocal flint]

i said foxes not midget foxes

[strange falcon]

fennec fox to be precise

[young latch]

yeah they're like fennecs but larger proportions would have been nice

[opaque pewter]

Thinking about it, the body variation in Warcraft is something people don't give them credit for often

[young latch]

i don't inherently hate short races tho

[vocal flint]

to be fair they use the same skeleton as goblins

[strange falcon]

you mean gender dimorphism

[young latch]

hard agree

[unborn glacier]

Pfft

[opaque pewter]

True, but it's still pretty nice crowd builder

[vocal flint]

hell the nightborne dont even have their own dance..i guess its cuz they are still technically night elfs ?

[young latch]

i just don't like the potato babies. If ff14 had comitted to actual fairies or something it would have been cool.

[terse patrol]

I fine FF14 hard to get into because the races are boring.

Find*

[young latch]

that's my biggest complaint too

great clothes tho

[strange falcon]

body variation is not sometthing that makes or breaks the game on its own,it is in the realm of "attention to detail"
i can tell you for sure that so many ppl arentt leaving because "body variation isnt good enough"

[opaque pewter]

For sure

[vocal flint]

most people just human / orc anyways lol

[terse patrol]

The only time I’ve liked Final Fantasy are the ones set in non-fantasy settings

[opaque pewter]

Isn't it more elf?

Oh both sides

[vocal flint]

i guess?

[strange falcon]

i can totally understand where you're coming from, but it would be the equivalent of, "i'm not eating this cake because its not fancy enough"
instead of using the taste of the cake as a measuring stick

[young latch]

weirdly i think i agree b/c i feel it's more unique

tho i do also love tactics which is the hardcore fantasy setting, but that game old as hell

[vocal flint]

fftactics story was the only ff story i followed till ff14 came along

[opaque pewter]

I'm just wondering how much the active race choice will change when/if the player factions are going to be eliminated

[vocal flint]

all of the racials are pretty much muted

horde side racials stand a bit since they have alot of more active effects

[strange falcon]

may be a hot take,but the last good stories in FF(excluding 14)
were FF10,FF7 AND FF9

[vocal flint]

warstom/charge orcs 1mcd trinket racial troll haste racial trinket

[opaque pewter]

People still largely choose by appearance/lore more than the skill/racial stuff. So I imagine that there will be some shift with that barrier off

[vocal flint]

more female draenai you mean

heh

[opaque pewter]

A lot people are playing blood elf just because it's the only choice that appealed to them

[young latch]

don't play elezen the gear always clips

[strange falcon]

the people that choose for racials only are all minmaxers or pretending to be,so its a tiny margin,
the ppl that choose for lore are also vastly outnumbered by the people that choose appearance

[vocal flint]

the main reasons for elfs to join the horde outside of lore was cuz horde needed a pretty race

[young latch]

well also i think

[strange falcon]

saying "main reason outside of lore" inherently starts not making sense

[young latch]

horde lacked an magician archetype

[vocal flint]

orc racial isnt tiny tho. oh god im a minmaxer now

[young latch]

before belf

i don't think the popularity of belves is just "they pretty"

[strange falcon]

im sorry man,i'll have to calll you elitist from now on

[young latch]

even tho that's important too

[vocal flint]

fawk

[strange falcon]

[opaque pewter]

It probably is a major factor at least

[strange falcon]

it mostly is,same for humans being most played alliance race,because most people are boring

[terse patrol]

The WoW census site is down.

But I know the top played race for Horde is Blood Elves.

[opaque pewter]

I foresee people moving away from BE if they didn't take a liking, but I'm not sure to what

[terse patrol]

Humans for Alliance.

[young latch]

well humans also fit the mage archetype best on alliance too i think

[terse patrol]

25% of Alliance players are night elves.

It kinda blows my mind how hard Blizzard smashed the story of a quarter of the Alliance playerbase.

[young latch]

i think people in a fantasy game are gonna want the wizard look

and that's tall thin humanoid

[vocal flint]

||hope nobody starts talking about sylvanas now||

[terse patrol]

Does anyone else feel like Blizzard is homogenizing all the races?

[opaque pewter]

In what aspect?

[strange falcon]

I think theres a much bigger part of people that wants to be barbarians or similar

[vocal flint]

like racials?

[terse patrol]

Like, making them all the same in terms of their outlook on things.

[vocal flint]

they have been nerfing racials since burning crusade

[strange falcon]

Dont mistake your own likings for the entire playerbases likings

[vocal flint]

to bring em on par with other weaker racials

[terse patrol]

I mean lorewise.

[vocal flint]

oh

hmm well orcs have def evolved a bit lol

went from mud huts to wood huts

[terse patrol]

Blizzard is making elves more and more human-like.

[opaque pewter]

Lorewise they are still pretty distinct with their own conflict

[vocal flint]

orcs still warlike but more militarized than ever now

[opaque pewter]

The player experience is a different character, not too attached to the race right now. We're spacial mawwalkers

[young latch]

ye but belves don't fit that archetype

[vocal flint]

on that note i really wish they would stop calling me mortal. at this point weve killed so many "immortal" races that it makes no sense anymore

[opaque pewter]

lol

[vocal flint]

" watch your TONGUE MORTAL " has ended in them being dead and my stealing their pants so many times lol

[opaque pewter]

I wish we were more cogs in the grand scheme, but we're not the person people listen to still, so I guess it's a good balance between those that want more agency vs. those that want to see their own way

[young latch]

i think there's a lot of ways to look like a barbarian in wow but not a whole lot of ways to look slender and graceful and magical

so it makes sense that this entire player base would gravitate to those options

[vocal flint]

cloth gear in orcs look like a wwf guy graduating from college

[opaque pewter]

lol

[young latch]

exactly

[terse patrol]

Robes in general in WoW look awful.

[strange falcon]

[strange falcon]

We still dont have 3d parts on robes,the cloth legendary set looked very cool in the concept art

[vocal flint]

wonder if blizzard will ever fix robes.

[young latch]

there's a reason why my vulpera mage wears the explorer gear >.>

although at least the mage stuff from the last legion rais was good

[vocal flint]

maybe do some crazy dropcloth graphics with shoulders

[opaque pewter]

It's a pretty difficult thing to tackle

[vocal flint]

they have been messing with gravity in small amounts for a while

[young latch]

i know ppl hate the faerie dragon set but it looks damn good on belf mages

[vocal flint]

weapon dangly bits and blood elf leaders ponytail

[opaque pewter]

Yeah we've seem progress over time

Belts also have independent gravity

[vocal flint]

yes and some shoulders

[strange falcon]

They need to bring the engine up to speed with current times,
Theyve done some progress but its nowhere near finished

[vocal flint]

or a new engine

[strange falcon]

And the slow progress is due to having not to break anything

[vocal flint]

this engine is 15+ years now

[opaque pewter]

The thing is that it's all possible

But the issue is playerbase

[vocal flint]

gravity was not a requirement 15 years ago

[strange falcon]

Too much resources to put in a subscription game

[opaque pewter]

Yeah it has to be incremental changes

[strange falcon]

If they shutdown the game for 2 years or more,sure they could make a new engine,but not when they actively need to make new content

[vocal flint]

i really wish blizzard wasnt part of activision. them going " this is the last expansion after this well work on wow2 " would been much easier without a board of assholes on the back poking at their backs giving em 3 years to do a proper return

[young latch]

i'm not super excited for a wow 2 if it means losing some races

[opaque pewter]

It's not different from any publishers though. Very risky ventures after all

[strange falcon]

Given the recent lawsuit,
"Activision bad" only works as a defense of budget cuts

Not of business decisions and such

[young latch]

and years of transmog progress

[vocal flint]

true i guess

id rather lose some races on the way of full improvements in the engine

[opaque pewter]

The gear engine?

[vocal flint]

you know i forgot of worgen when someone mentioned about having a fox race

[vocal flint]

if it means that orcs get non floating shoulders ill give em 5 years lol

[strange falcon]

The mostly only reason "a realm reborn" actually worked(other than the content being serviceable)

Was that they had a beta up and running as soon as the 1.0 servers went down

So there was no downtime for addicted players to quit

[vocal flint]

oh really? interesting i didnt know that real reborn beta was up that fast

i thought it was 1 year

before they did a beta

leave it to japanese workforce i guess

work on the end patch and a beta for realm reborn

[strange falcon]

The game itself came out after a year,
In the trailer shown when the servers closed there was an "sign up for beta" at the end

[opaque pewter]

I mean the only way going forward feasibly is to keep old gear as-is and have new rules for the new ones

[strange falcon]

Not as much of an undertaking as you think, ARR uses 90% of the assets and the armors from 1.0

So they only needed to rig the assets

Not remake them

[vocal flint]

if i recall right the engine was built from scratch

they did reuse assest yes

[opaque pewter]

He's right saying that SE is a pretty black/dark grey company though lol

[vocal flint]

assets

[strange falcon]

SE in general is pretty shady yes,but they seem to have a moderate amount of freedom in the FF team as long as they make money

Which is why they released a new store mount just a week ago

[vocal flint]

yoshy p said that hes has been given full freedom in the making of the game as a whole. but in exchange they have full control of the mog shop

[strange falcon]

*yoshi

[vocal flint]

that

[unborn glacier]

There is zero reason for a wow2

[strange falcon]

That was from an unconfirmed source

[vocal flint]

it was in a stream wasnt it ? maybe youre right but i recall him saying it on a stream.

[opaque pewter]

But no, considering that I play worgen, which is likely pretty far from a popular race, I wouldn't be too thrilled about a new game with less

It's a difficult balance

[vocal flint]

i think worgen would be saved as a base race if there was a wow 2

goblins/vulpera/nightborne/voidelf

probably would be cut

high mountain tauren would most likely be a customization of the base tauren?

maybe same for elfs

[strange falcon]

Also i remember back when i personally played at the end of bfa, absolutely no one to very little people even cared about the ingame shop being scummy, with 602 items in it.

But combine that shop with wow refugees that are now ff players and you get these memes
https://twitter.com/thefirsts_noel/status/1426618003991506949?s=21

noel 🔮 of the first (24/7 existential crisis) (@thefirsts_noel)

the mogstation mount discourse in a nutshell #ffxiv

Retweets

955

Likes

3409

Twitter · Aug 14, 2021, 6:53 PM

[opaque pewter]

We also have to ask, what exactly would be different? Could it not be added to the current game down the line?

[strange falcon]

A new game has much more interest power than a new expac

[opaque pewter]

Right, it would have some PR advantage

[vocal flint]

oh yeah the wow refugees are having hard time understanding the shop lol

ff14 old player are okay with it because theres plenty content / most of the shop stuff will first come in events then be put on the shop / are whales

lol

[opaque pewter]

It's just so difficult to sell a new game project, as much as people would want it. There are a lot of subsystems to build, not to mention making sure the playerbase will be there, etc.

[vocal flint]

would def fix the power creep

[opaque pewter]

Hmm yes, you'd have a clean slate there

[vocal flint]

we wouldnt need some one shot borrowed power for a few expancions again

[opaque pewter]

The cycle would happen again though

[vocal flint]

they would have the oportunity to create an evolving power evolution and stick with it instead of making some easy to dispose expansion based borrowed power

[opaque pewter]

That's why it doesn't make sense if it can be avoided

[strange falcon]

The fact the content is good does not excuse the shop being as egregious as it is

[vocal flint]

sure but makes it easier to swallow

imagine if wow released 5 new mog sets right now

in the shop

[opaque pewter]

You can't make incremental changes forever though

[vocal flint]

for 20 bucks a pop each

[strange falcon]

It makes it easier to look away and enjoy copium not swallow

[opaque pewter]

Yeah if anything I'm pretty happy that people are starting to notice it lol

[vocal flint]

think of ingame shop like taxes

if the city is happy well feed/housed/job needs are at an all time low. raising taxes will bring some angry people but not alot

its the same idea with ff14 currently

theres some outrage over the new mount cuz it should been a raid mount by all accounts

but in the end most people will be okay and even buy it

cuz the game is okay

[opaque pewter]

That said, going back to expansion-based system discussion. I do believe that it's the better approach long-term to keep things fresh

The core as it is is fairly robust and functional

[vocal flint]

i believe blizzard knows what they have to do to bring back whoever we lost. them wanting to spend the time to do it is the question. i still play the game. i enjoy the raids and my own created community of cats that i herd to said raids every weekend.

[opaque pewter]

It's a big game, and over the span of its 15 years people have experienced different things and want different things out of it. Unless it's more of everything (which is already a lot) I'm not sure you'll be able to "bring anyone back". Specialization leads to happier people on one side, and much less on the other

Like, even just removing the forced faction will create a huge wave

[vocal flint]

that would be huge tho

guild not having a division alone would help

[opaque pewter]

Yeah, but the people that would not like it would be those that liked that segregation and "my team" aspect

[vocal flint]

they can keep the story base division if they want but in reality. there has been organizations that have all kinds of races forever now. adventurers of all people shouldnt even need to follow "factions"

we are by all name and accords a baseless faction.

[opaque pewter]

I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do, but for something as this, it can be reacted both positively and negatively based on the player's value, essentially

[tropic trail]

More WoW without factions talk again? 🙄

[vocal flint]

if rp is a problem for the faction separation they can just keep playing it as is. " xxx only guilds exist

[tropic trail]

Sorry, didn't know the playerbase wanted World of Peacecraft

[unborn glacier]

Pandaren!

[vocal flint]

pandaren > 🔥

[unborn glacier]

Yikes

[tropic trail]

And thinking they're gonna remove races for a future game? Bs

[vocal flint]

gumball can you calm down its all speculation. its not like im on the wow team taking notes

[opaque pewter]

lol

You can sort of reconcile and do minimal damage

But it's not a light decision

[vocal flint]

theres literally no reason for faction divide currently. and storywise we are getting into the galactic level fights while still going " GRRR GET OFF MY DIRT ORC " its really freaking stupid

[slender quest]

2 faction system > 1 faction (for my taste)

[vocal flint]

it would help the ingame system quenes

it makes no sense in the current lore

[opaque pewter]

The evil horde as stricly NPC and players strictly being on the good side working together (aka alternate bfa) would have kept the faction spirit, while unifying player experience. But a lot of people still would not want that

[unborn glacier]

Nope

[vocal flint]

so opening the choice dont close being able to just not group with horde/alliance

you can literally put a check mark " wanna quene with alliance and horde " yes/no

like we can already do with pvp

purist will shake their stick and press no

everyone else that dont give a fuck or like having factionless quenes will press yes

problem solved

xxx race guilds would work fine too. i mean people does this already

i was part of a troll only guild once as the only orc lol

[opaque pewter]

It would be nice to have a narrative tie to it though. We were discussing earlier about that immersion value

[vocal flint]

isnt being in literally wow hell trying to stop the life as we know it enough to forget about terrain based divisions, color and alliances?

[opaque pewter]

It should yes. Maybe it will lead to that who knows

[vocal flint]

inb4 we go back to azeroth and everything is on fire cuz light boi got left in command and decided that everything is gona be turned to light or die in ashes

[opaque pewter]

But I do understand that some people want to keep that core. All I'm saying is that one compromise would be to not do it at player level. It's not ideal of course lol

[vocal flint]

id agree if the fact that unlocking factions to work together would outright shut down the ability to NOT work together

[tropic trail]

Just add a mercenary queue system for instanced PvE content

[vocal flint]

but as weve seen in pvp. you can easily flip a swich and go back and fort

[vocal flint]

that works

[tropic trail]

That's all that's necessary

[vocal flint]

the glorious " i dont give a fuck about factions, just give me money/azerithe/anima/????? "

button

[tropic trail]

The Horde and Alliance division is a quintessential element of WoW, and if you reject that then you're rejecting core elements of what WoW is

Might as well just make questing optional and 100% skippable

[opaque pewter]

It was less horde/alliance before and more different factions, sometimes working together, sometimes not

[tropic trail]

An mmorpg doesn't need to cater to arcade gamers

[opaque pewter]

I'd like I see that dynamic instead

[vocal flint]

storywise there is more reason to work together then find some silly reason to back to war than to always stay united and make the fights skirmishes associated towards the factions

[opaque pewter]

Like how a a big part of the Tauren would leave the Horde when their leader was assassinated. That kind of dynamic

[vocal flint]

for example im wildstar ( got rest it soul ) faction teamwork was activated depending on the story.

at one point both factions decided that it was pointless to stay separated till > this shit which was kicking both our asses gets dealth with. and with the story it came open quene for both factions

[tropic trail]

You're still just thinking about the players, not the factions themselves

[unborn glacier]

Nope

[vocal flint]

are you even reading...

[opaque pewter]

lol

[vocal flint]

why do i bother lol

[tropic trail]

The average citizen of Khaz Modan would reject ever working alongside orcs

[vocal flint]

the average citizen of khaz modan is more worried about having to eat food and work than anything else

or why is their king still made of pure diamond still

or why are we listening to a dark iron wench

[tropic trail]

:/

Mkay

[vocal flint]

just sayin. the average khaz modan dwarf dont even know whats going on in the shadowlands

[unborn glacier]

What do you think the average citizen of khaz Modan would do if an orc or troll showed up?

That's right, they'd attempt to kill them

[tropic trail]

Didn't say that

[vocal flint]

there would obv be some announcement about the new alliances with the horde and how we will slowly integrate with them. its not like orcs are gona come and camp out in their towns

alliances rarely mean that both countries are gona merge together

[tropic trail]

Lmao and you expect the citizenry to be accepting of that?

everyone knows how much the governed love being told what to do

That's gone SOOO well with many other examples

I can NEVER see people not doing what their leaders tell them to do

[vocal flint]

give me one example where things have worked like this. you think normal wow npcs dont have friendships outside of their own races?

you act like all of the wow factions havent worked together before

like the usual alliance farmer thinks of orcs as demons still lol

[tropic trail]

Allegiances of convenience

[vocal flint]

thats the same youre doing lol

[pulsar minnow]

Wouldn’t it be even cooler if we had that level of political strife in the factions over who’s allowed into the cities

[vocal flint]

assuming that all of the citizenship thinks of the oposite faction as savages when it could very well be the oposite

[unborn glacier]

They do

LMAO

[opaque pewter]

Yeah they've made it work, and if they want, they'll make it work. But that's beside the point
In any case, what I wanted to say is that there is stalemate/equivalent trade all the time because of players. They'd have no qualm doing drastic faction changes otherwise

[tropic trail]

I'd like it if say Draenei had to earn rep with Ironforge to use their vendors or at least not get overcharged

[tropic trail]

Dude, they do

Are you kidding

[vocal flint]

are you even reading

how do you answer " they do " to this

ima go play a game lol

o7

[tropic trail]

Make sure to read quest text and npc dialog while you're at it o7

Oh he's back

[vocal flint]

id say the same but id rather you read a full sentence before you write and foam at the mouth

[tropic trail]

Final word time

[vocal flint]

here have your last word lol

you dont read arguments mate you just wanna " win "

[tropic trail]

Man calm down why are you getting so upset

[vocal flint]

cant have a conversation with a literal wall

[tropic trail]

I'm not trying to win, I'm just right

There's a difference

[vocal flint]

lol k

[tropic trail]

Settle down man

[vocal flint]

dude please stop

[tropic trail]

??

[vocal flint]

" im always right" is literally your problem youre not but youll just start chucking insults once someone shows you some reason

[tropic trail]

I didn't say I'm always right

You're not arguing with me

[vocal flint]

is this you ?

[tropic trail]

I don't know about you but I don't read that as me saying "I'm always right"

[vocal flint]

is this you..

are you kiding me lol

[tropic trail]

Dude, calm down

Nobody is trying to bully you

[vocal flint]

were talking about open factions. but theres no discusion youre jus right

[tropic trail]

You're getting defensive over videogame opinions

Just calm down

[vocal flint]

uhh okay? im not but w.e

im not the one coming with a sledge hammer trying to act like your own word is law. like i said. cant talk to wall. you literally killed the combo

good job lol

last word!

[tropic trail]

I never said that my word was law. See, now you're just turning me into a strawman

Dude, settle down. Go play your game like you said, it's okay

Nobody is trying to attack you

[vocal flint]

thats not even a strawman. use terms properly..

[unborn glacier]

[vocal flint]

do you just spout words to sound good?

[tropic trail]

Dude, calm down

[vocal flint]

just telling me to calm down to act like im the one with the problem coming in and killing conversations dont work

[tropic trail]

You're over-exaggerating and trying to make an argument over that over-exaggeration. That's a type of strawmanning

[vocal flint]

this you?

[tropic trail]

Dude we were just talking about factions, why are you trying to dig in and attack me

This is nuts

[vocal flint]

it isnt tho. you do this all the time. just pointing it out

[tropic trail]

I wish you all the best and that you're able to settle down. Just take a break and play your game, man. There's no need to get so worked up, okay? 🙏

Goosfrabba

[vocal flint]

yeah yeah thats all you can do now

dug into a hole killed the combo and now youre acting like this was not your fault at all

[tropic trail]

Dude I tried to say something nice

[vocal flint]

really

[tropic trail]

Obviously I'm upsetting you and that's not my intention. I'm gonna let you be and hope the conversation gets back to the game. Goodbye and good luck on loot 🙏

[vocal flint]

o7

[opaque pewter]

There is a better way to flow discussion though. I'm hoping the interaction will be better now

[vocal flint]

maybe a timeskip after shadowlands will work things out

they did mention that time moves differently in shadowlands right

[tropic trail]

Devs already said there's no timeskip

[vocal flint]

back to the drawing board

didnt ian said that it wasnt out of the table tho

i guess it would be up to the writers in the end. i dont know if he has control over that either way.

[opaque pewter]

Things can change, but yes I recall that they wanted to shut down that theory when it came up as a question

[terse patrol]

Just had a realization.

Elune killing off her chosen race basically makes no fuckin sense in the lore.

Ok, so she had no idea about the Maw.

And we now know there are innumerable worlds out there, with their own people, naturally dying at any time.

Why the fuck didn’t she save the Night Elves when logically there “should” be plenty of souls going there.

And even an idiot can stop and thing “HUH, WHY IS THERE AN ANIMA DROUGHT.”

“Maybe I should THINK THIS THROUGH before KILLING OFF MY FAVORITE RACE.”

^ Pictured, night elf druid during Teldrassil.

[tropic trail]

She was desperate, didn't know about souls being funneled into the Maw, and basically allowed the burning of Teldrassil to happen out of desperation to help her sister

It's called a tragic mistake

[terse patrol]

Why was it “desperate” when it’s been going on for a WHILE?

[tropic trail]

??

[terse patrol]

If this doesn’t end in her sacrificing some of her power to bring them all back, fuck Elune.

[tropic trail]

lol

[unborn glacier]

She didn't. She redirected their souls

[terse patrol]

To a place she knew was in an anima drought.

YET

Didn’t stop and think “WHY IS THERE AN ANIMA DROUGHT.”

Anima comes from souls.

For real, it was the biggest cosmic fuck up and the ONLY choice is to resurrect them.

If Elune has to give some of her power to achieve that, she deserves it.

[tropic trail]

Because she was expecting to send the souls to provide aid during the drought

[terse patrol]

Yes. . . But again.

Why didn’t she stop and think “why is my sister not getting any souls?”

[tropic trail]

The drought was the problem, sending souls--or rather allowing the souls to be sent--was the solution as far as Elune knew

[terse patrol]

She still fucked up, and her peoples souls served no purpose.

[tropic trail]

Elune being a part of the Pantheon of Life or whatever and her not being on one-to-one speaking terms with her sister might play into how she didn't know the nuances of the drought being caused by souls being funneled into the Maw

[terse patrol]

They deserve their lives back, because their deaths were preventable.

[tropic trail]

It wasn't a mistake on Elune's part--she just didn't know what was going on and did what she thought was best

[terse patrol]

Hell, make a new subrace out of it, I don’t care.

[tropic trail]

If the souls hadn't been sent to the Maw, then she would have helped

[terse patrol]

“Charbroiled Elves” race.

Intentions are nice, but her peoples souls went to Hell instead.

[tropic trail]

And she had no way of knowing that

[terse patrol]

They deserve their lives back.

And she should foot the bill.

[tropic trail]

Alright, how about all of the other decimated peoples

[terse patrol]

Horde don’t matter, they lit the fire.

Worgen in the tree can come back.

[tropic trail]

Jailer was inadvertently responsible for all of the genocides of the Burning Legion--bring them back too

lmao for real, come on

[terse patrol]

If the Jailer can remake reality.

Why don’t we stop the Jailer.

And jusr

Just.

Fix everything.

[tropic trail]

And do what he was gonna do, right

[terse patrol]

No.

He wants “Slave Universe.”

[tropic trail]

Nope, you just said it

You wanna remake reality for what you believe is right

That's what the Jailer wants to

[terse patrol]

Yes. I want to remake reality to fix all its issues, minus the Jailers despotism.

[tropic trail]

Personally, I just think handwaving the tragedy of Teldrassil away is an even bigger fuck you

[terse patrol]

It was a stupid plot in the first place.

Marketing wanted an edgy plot point to sell the expansion.

[tropic trail]

Not really?

[terse patrol]

And it worked.

[tropic trail]

If it worked then it wasn't stupid

[terse patrol]

idk why I ever argue with you because you always defend Blizzard.

[tropic trail]

I'm not defending Blizzard

I'm just disagreeing with your argument

Because it's grounded in a lot of entitlement and "because I wanna"

[unborn glacier]

They weren't.

[pulsar minnow]

I think resurrecting a massive amount of people in the lore would really hurt the story. Because if we can just bring them all back, why can't we just bring back Kael'thas, Uther, or everyone else that we lost.

[tropic trail]

Exactly

It'd be such a spit in the face of a reset button

[pulsar minnow]

That being said, they could spend their afterlife back on azeroth in the form of, say, the covenant races and make sure that we immediately seal the veil right afterwards

[strange falcon]

New tiridan profile pic is okay

[plain violet]

Seemed that what we (night fae) were doing.

And by giving them a beautiful forest with that.

[young latch]

pfp cop

[plain violet]

Well not back on Azeroth yet, but Ardenweald could help. Even if still dead, Ardenweald is one of the best afterlives they could hope for (for nature lovers and chilling at theaters)

[pulsar minnow]

Ok so that's just an afterlife. What I think Honkerton was requesting was just resurrecting them entirely

[plain violet]

I agree! I don't think resurrecting theme entirely would be good for the plot. A bit of undoing. With Ardenweald instead, we got to experience afterlife and the reflection of the Dream, of nature, of their new path even (to not forget past immortality of night elves and their relation with death and departure, ô beautiful darkshore questlines)

[opaque pewter]

The other way think about these things, is to see if there is a way to proceed without resurrection at all

[strange falcon]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlizzJess/status/1427653735082172421

Jessica Gonzalez 💙 #ABetterABK 💙 (@BlizzJess)

https://t.co/B1eu95zx0x

Retweets

350

Likes

953

Twitter · Aug 17, 2021, 3:29 PM

[tropic trail]

I mean, to be fair, proposed solutions to existing problems can be more beneficial than just pointing out the problem

[unborn glacier]

[pulsar minnow]

That is the worst emoji usage I've ever seen in a message essentially saying "please stop tweeting"

[unborn glacier]

I guess you ignored what gumball said

[pulsar minnow]

I didn't. I was just talking about the emoji which is just comical

[uncut vault]

What the ysaid is also kinda bad too, because the ABK employees acting against this have consistently and repeatedly stated their solutions to the public

[deep pawn]

I really hope we get a ptr next week since that's when Sylv LFR comes out

[strange falcon]

New tiridan profile pic is quite nostalgic of SonicAdventure2 vibes with the chao garden

[pulsar minnow]

It’s a new one every day

[mossy meteor]

ptr updated

build 39804