#beta-ptr-spoilers

1 messages · Page 598 of 1

tropic trail
#

What is there to rule if you destroy everything?

foggy abyss
#

That's the point

#

that's why the writing is bad

#

Zovaal's goal makes no sense

#

Is fueled by nonsense

#

there is no real answers to those questions

#

Look at sylvanas being forgiven

tropic trail
#

If he were a nihilistic character that's trying to destroy everything for the sake of destruction, it'd actually be cool

#

We just don't know it yet. Dude has been at this shit for eons and we still don't know yet what he did to get imprisoned in the Maw

#

Expansion isn't over yet, dude

ivory meadow
#

that is true.

tropic trail
#

But he's just boring and wants to destroy reality for the sake of destroying reality

foggy abyss
#

It'll be the same boring shit

tropic trail
#

We don't know the why yet, Lyo

foggy abyss
#

A good ending won't fix a shitty beginning story wise

tropic trail
#

Subjective opinion but aight

foggy abyss
#

I don't forsee any good ending

tropic trail
#

I stand by my statement. "It is the only action one could take that would have any purpose"

#

Destroying reality itself

foggy abyss
#

Nah

#

Purpose is too subjective

#

to make sense

tropic trail
#

We don't know what the Jailer did to get locked up and mad at reality in the first place yet

foggy abyss
#

He dispelled World buffs in classic

ivory meadow
#

or really anything about the First Ones.

foggy abyss
#

quote me

#

Sylvanas' last word in the cinematic

#

is "First Ones"

#

or "Pantheon"

tropic trail
#

Maybe he just wants to be the only existing titan level entity

tropic trail
ivory meadow
#

since his beef seems to be with them.

tropic trail
foggy abyss
foggy abyss
#

Game is far too easy to predict story wise

tropic trail
#

I called N'zoth as the final boss of BfA from the start

foggy abyss
#

Yes

#

because it was obvious

tropic trail
#

I just saw the patterns on cloth Kul Tiran armor and thought "Yeah, old god expansion"

foggy abyss
#

More like

tropic trail
#

It was already called out in Legion during the Nightmare raid, dude

foggy abyss
#

Old god patch

tropic trail
#

I mean, there were, what, three raids based on Old God lore?

#

Eternal Palace, the two boss raid with nice loot and Ny'alotha

#

I wouldn't say "old god patch"

foggy abyss
#

Yup not an Old god expansion

#

compare it to Legion

#

Everything was related to the burning legion

tropic trail
#

Somewhat

foggy abyss
#

the aestethic was close to the burning Legion

ivory meadow
#

but to Lyo and Stronk's point; we didn't really get even a tiny bit of specifics of why the Jailer started collecting the sigils other than that he was and that got him banished to the maw; no why or anything. No doubt in 9.2, we're gonna get that, but for some people, it would've been nice to at least get a tiny glimpse.

foggy abyss
#

9.2 will be in 6 month atleast

#

I saw the cinematic no reason for me to resub I thought i'd be impressed but it was the same boring predictible thing

tropic trail
#

I honestly wish I could ask the Jailer for context

#

"So, what made you decide you want to end reality, Mr. Zovaal, sir?"

foggy abyss
#

Sylvanas going all

#

"I will never serve Pepega "

#

After comitting genocide for Zovaal

tropic trail
#

"I am the Jailer of the damned..."
"I know the what, but I don't know the why"

obtuse vine
#

Wait is she dead? Like dead dead?

image0.png
ivory meadow
#

no

foggy abyss
#

Like shut up you're already serving KEK

ivory meadow
#

just passed out

tropic trail
#

Sadge

foggy abyss
#

looks dead dead to me

tropic trail
#

Teabag her corpse for me

ivory meadow
#

no, she is very passed out.

tropic trail
#

She's still a corpse

#

Honor the fallen

#

Teabag that bitch

ivory meadow
#

considering she apparently knew where the Jailer was going when he left, Bolvar and the others are gonna want info.

tropic trail
#

Here's how we beat the Jailer

#

Now this is just my theory

#

We t-pose at him and he dies

foggy abyss
#

Honestly

#

atleast that ending would be funny

#

Perfect ending is Zovaal wins and WoW 2.0 is announced

deep pawn
#

Yep, 9.2 is Sepulcher and Zovaal. I'll be stunned if there's a 9.3

foggy abyss
#

There will be a 9.3

tropic trail
#

But 100% look at the Jailer's chest and tell me you don't see drust design in that hole

#

It looks wooden

pulsar minnow
#

9.3 is likely to be the Jailer's old realm and then the Heart of Azeroth

foggy abyss
#

Drust are the produce of death wdym

#

They're tied to Ardenweald wdym

tropic trail
#

We've had Old Gods doing shit ingame waaay before Legion

foggy abyss
#

The design on the arbiter's orb is related to the first ones

#

same as the Arbiter

#

Which has been a thing since 9.0

#

a shame t he writers are too bad to ever give us a sense of urgency

deep pawn
#

I have expected to hear Gorak Tul as his name haha

foggy abyss
#

I was kinda here like

#

"Uh the arbiter exists."

#

Nothing with her

#

not a thing

tropic trail
#

I think Zovaal will just pull the sword from Azeroth, make Azeroth bleed again and then pocket the sword and take it somewhere else

#

The glow in the sky disappears

foggy abyss
#

Even Rastakhan which got the shit treatment got more

tropic trail
#

And some more stuff

deep pawn
#

I honestly feel like taking a detour at this point to deal with ANYTHING but Zovaal will feel like bad writing

foggy abyss
#

^

deep pawn
#

I think we get one more raid than 10.0

pulsar minnow
#

I think people are gonna love Zovaal a lot more now that he looks badass

foggy abyss
#

Hey guys Pog for 9.3 we getting death infested Mt hyjal & Silvermoon PauseChamp

#

Now that's what I call content

#

I'm just so disappointed again

deep pawn
#

I'm honestly hoping that if we only have one more content patch that the Sepulcher is on the level of Argus

foggy abyss
#

What a boring treatment Sylvanas got

deep pawn
#

I honestly don't hate the story. I appreciate the philosophy of "Are we fully in control if we certain emotions"

#

I doubt Blizzard can pull off the depth it'd require, but I can see it

foggy abyss
#

It's written to poorly for me to find relevent arguments or ideas

deep pawn
#

While Sylvanas wouldn't be considered insane without her full soul, she clearly wasn't normal.

tropic trail
#

I just wish Sylvanas had doubts in BfA too

foggy abyss
#

^

tropic trail
#

But no, only in Shadowlands

foggy abyss
#

That would've been better

#

The bitch commits mass genocide

#

But then when the Nipple titan says "Serve"

#

she gets nam PTSD

deep pawn
#

Oh we're sure to get scenes of her crying next patch

#

I bet we get a really touching moment with Vereesa

foggy abyss
#

Nah

tropic trail
#

The scenes of her crying should have been after Treedrassil

foggy abyss
#

$that would be and I swear to god

#

a spit on the face of WoW players

deep pawn
#

How so?

foggy abyss
#

Sylvanas commited crimes

#

She needs to pay for them

tropic trail
#

"Did I just... Sell the souls of thousands to a death god? What am I doing?"

foggy abyss
#

No comofrt bullshit

#

no comfy moment with her sisters

deep pawn
#

How much was she in control though?

foggy abyss
#

That would be actually terrible

#

Her soul was split in half

#

she wasn't controlled

#

if she was controlled

#

She wouldn't have fired that arrow at Zovaal

deep pawn
#

And? Are you going to punish a whole soul for what a broken part of it did?

foggy abyss
#

She still has and had free will

foggy abyss
#

because the broken part has free will

tropic trail
#

Speaking of which, do you think she'll be part of the campaign for the next weeks, or that her story is reserved for 9.3?

foggy abyss
#

9.2

pulsar minnow
#

Sylvanas killed thousands, burned Teldrassil, divided the Horde into another civil war, and then killed Saurfang. She's not going to be touted as some sort of savior of all creation. She's no Illidan or Kerrigan. She's now her full self once more, and she'll likely just aid in fixing the problem she solved, and likely die in the process (Calia and Lilian have already replaced her). She's not being "redeemed"

foggy abyss
#

We already saw all the campaigns for 9.2

tropic trail
#

Oh

#

Booooo

#

Refund

pulsar minnow
#

No we actually haven't, the final chapter has been hidden since PTR and nobody has seen it to my knowledge

foggy abyss
ivory meadow
pulsar minnow
tropic trail
ivory meadow
#

that's... interesting.

tropic trail
#

Lol

deep pawn
#

Odd, I didn't get that cutscene after killing him

mossy meteor
#

Lmao that cutscene

#

Okay

tropic trail
#

FOR DA HOOOOOOD

deep pawn
#

explains the cinders

obtuse vine
#

There’s a theory that now that she has her soul back she’s thinking she’s in Quel’thalas, so she’s like “cannot let him reach the sunwell” lmao

tropic trail
#

Teach the Sunwell?

#

Teach it what?

#

Teach it how, rather?

plain rivet
#

Sooooooo

deep pawn
#

I honestly didn't expect the arbiter plot to end here, figured it was gonna be a boss in the Zovaal raid. I guess her platform is the last phase of the Sylv fight?

plain rivet
#

Anduin is now the lich king 3

unborn glacier
foggy abyss
#

NO

obtuse vine
foggy abyss
#

NOO

#

NOOOO

#

WHAT

#

NOOO

#

IT WAS SO GOOD

#

UNTIL THEY TURNED HIM INTO ASH

plain rivet
#

And the jailer has everything completed

deep pawn
#

Sad it didn't actually work in game haha

foggy abyss
#

WHAT THE FUCK

plain rivet
#

Arbiter is now dead

deep pawn
#

Eh, I'm glad if that's the absolute end of Garrosh, screw him

foggy abyss
#

What the fuck

#

Why

#

why

plain rivet
#

Well….arbiter is not dead, jailer just took it. And flee

unborn glacier
#

Rest in Power, Garrosh Hellscream

plain rivet
#

And now he’s no longer naked, he has a badass armor them anduin

unborn glacier
plain rivet
#

Zoval exiled silvanas

deep pawn
#

Haha, I love reddit

#

"Anyway, 10.0 Sylvanas will be a High Elf again and all of this sexual tension/regret/feelings they've been setting up between her and Anduin will lead in to her becoming the Queen of the Alliance. You heard it here first."

tropic trail
#

Breh

#

No

#

Fuck that nonsense

plain rivet
#

What is it that zovaal has on his hand

tropic trail
#

Sylvanas for president

#

God bless America

errant yoke
#

Modern wow writing makes me gag

plain rivet
#

Looks like a blue crystal

#

And crush it

#

Is that silvanas soul?

deep pawn
#

Yes

plain rivet
#

Well she’s dead? But not technically? She will be a soul

deep pawn
#

There's some fluff book text in a zone that suggests Zovaal stores certain souls he deems valuable including Lana'thel for example

#

He's had Sylvanas's shard for a long time

plain rivet
#

Well at least the jailer let us free

#

After the departure

#

Now, the world is f**k

#

The entire shadowlands is f***

tropic trail
#

Wait so

#

Zovaal uses those crystals to make mourneblades

#

A Mourneblade is just a soul powered sword

plain rivet
#

Arbiter is not working, the only way you can awaken it is bring back the orb that zoval has

tropic trail
#

Any chance that Kingsmourne has Varian's soul crystal in it?

#

It would be a cool touch

plain rivet
#

And sire denatius has escaped

tropic trail
#

Or maybe even Saurfang's soul?

pulsar minnow
#

Its most likely Arthas or Nathanos

plain rivet
#

Now twice as trouble

#

Oh wait all the sigils is gone, triple i
The trouble

deep pawn
#

Varian's soul was obliterated by the Fel. Our understanding is that erases you from existence basically

plain rivet
#

Now what

tropic trail
#

Yup. Fel burns through souls as fuel

#

Blizzard has been shown to retcon their own retconned lore

plain rivet
#

I hope you disappoint

#

At the ending

tropic trail
plain rivet
#

I hate cliffhangers

tropic trail
#

The earth being round wasn't a retcon

#

And sometimes retcons are actually a good thing, especially in cases where you didn't expect a story to proceed a certain way

#

I wouldn't say Sylvanas' motivation or Garrosh's story were developments

#

Hell, Shadowlands for example had Denathrius dying initially

plain rivet
#

I think the last raid is to defeat anduin, which horde players dream off.

tropic trail
#

Garrosh was a totally different character in Cata to what he is in MoP

plain rivet
#

We already got alliance player dream of is to beat sylvanas

tropic trail
#

My alliance player dream? See Anduin get married to Taelia and have a child named Varian

plain rivet
#

Lol don’t you think horde player mange to beat the alliance

tropic trail
#

Or Tiffin if it's a girl

plain rivet
#

I’m a kyrian player

tropic trail
foggy abyss
#

I'm so done

plain rivet
#

Screw alliance

foggy abyss
#

They ruined the game for good

#

That garrosh video was amazing

#

until the moment he FUCKING DIES

#

Turned into ashes

#

THEY TEASED US FOR AF UCKIN YEAR

tropic trail
foggy abyss
#

WITH GARROSH

#

AND HE DIES LIKE THAT ?

storm marsh
foggy abyss
#

TURNED INTO ASHES

tropic trail
#

He blew up Theramore at the beginning

foggy abyss
#

Holy shit dude they actually Hired Fanfic writers

tropic trail
#

Before the encounter with Y'shaarj's heart

foggy abyss
#

Garrosh can't redeem himself despite showing a ton of qualities while sylvanas is getting the kerrigan treatment

#

I'm done

tropic trail
tropic trail
errant yoke
#

Bad writers

tropic trail
#

Doesn't mean he was a genocidal maniac

#

He was just the leader orcs are taught to be

#

Thrall was trained by a human and his best friend was a human female

tropic trail
pulsar minnow
errant yoke
tropic trail
#

When, yknow, there was a Lich King trying to wipe out life but okay

#

Saurfang is old and wise, Thrall is a puppy. Garrosh was doing what an orc soldier would

#

It's his nature

#

But even he executed someone for war crimes

foggy abyss
#

Man

#

they did my man garrosh so dirty

tropic trail
#

Garrosh deserved better

deep pawn
#

nah

foggy abyss
#

he did

tropic trail
#

He deserved at least to be redeemed as a Venthyr after helping us in The Sanctum of Domination. Either a mission table follower or quest giver like Kek'thas

foggy abyss
#

Garrosh deserved anything

#

than to die at a 1 fucking boss

#

in a random ass patch

#

Exploding

#

HE ITERALLY

#

EXPLODED

#

What

#

swords don't explode what

tropic trail
#

Neither do souls?

#

Sanctum of Dominatrix seems disappointing and I didn't even get to play it. EU scum, that I am

slender quest
#

Here is how Sylvanas redemtion will probably be: Sylvanas is now a different character, what she has done was not her actual "her" . She had no mortal soul.
She will feel so guilty that she cant forgive herself -> and that's how people gonna forgive her.
She's probably gonna do something to make everything better. Like I dont know, collecting souls or so

deep pawn
#

She can hang out in Ardenweald. 😄

slender quest
#

It's like that thing with Supernatural. If someone ever watche dSupernatural

tropic trail
#

Yeah, she might try to help free the souls she willingly imprisoned, help out with chores in the Shadowlands and shine Jaina's boots

slender quest
#

there is that one season, where that guy doesnt has a soul

#

does a lot of shit, evil shit

#

gets away with it whne he gets his soul back

#

simple redemtion

pulsar minnow
errant yoke
#

Garrosh refused to be turned into another bad character like Sylvanas and rushed into oblivion. Based.

pulsar minnow
#

The soul "splitting" thing isn't exactly a 50/50 split

slender quest
#

Uther's questline where he fuses with his soulshard suggests that he doesnt have all of his memories

#

literally said by an NPC who guides him

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

My theory is that the split soul acts like a split emotion. So Sylvanas would have love cut off from logic and malice

pulsar minnow
#

that's still him.

tropic trail
#

And that's why she did evil shit

slender quest
#

It just one part of him

pulsar minnow
#

If you have your memory wiped and then you hurt someone, you're still liable for what you did

slender quest
#

its not like really him. not his full self

pulsar minnow
#

Yeah, but again that doesn't matter. Uther still takes responsibility for what he did.

#

He doesn't deflect blame

slender quest
#

so will Sylvanas

#

that's what I said

#

she will feel guilty, she will take responsibility for it

#

collect some souls, helps defeat the jailer

#

maybe an excuse to tyrande. I dont know

pulsar minnow
#

She's not coming back with us no matter what.

slender quest
#

she could also just stay in the shadowlands

tropic trail
#

NO

#

No

#

NO

errant yoke
#

I'm never resubbing if that is real

slender quest
pulsar minnow
slender quest
#

that is real

#

because its

#

a WC3 character model of her

tropic trail
#

XD

slender quest
#

...

errant yoke
#

I can't take anymore tonight

tropic trail
#

But yeah, I expect Sylvanas to spend a while with her nephew now

#

Y'know, Arator the Redeemer

#

Redeem Sylvanas, but do it smort

slender quest
#

I'm for the first time excited to see what comes next since basically BfA

#

BfA -> until now made me not enjoy the story that much as I'm used to

#

now we can go! Let's go 😄

#

I'm even ok if Sylvanas dies now in the Jailer fight

#

cuz she's a goodie now ❤️

errant yoke
#

shoot one arrow = forgiveness for literal racial genocide LOL

slender quest
#

👀

tropic trail
#

I just wanted more garrosh

pulsar minnow
errant yoke
unborn glacier
faint nova
slender quest
#

hell yeah she will

slender quest
tropic trail
unborn glacier
unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

Lol k

#

FOR THE HOOOOE

errant yoke
#

Garrosh turning into 8bit ash is not powerful im sorry

tropic trail
#

I do love how he said he would do it all over again

faint nova
#

I have very little doubt

#

For the Horde

tropic trail
#

"Yeah I'd succ the life juice of an old god for immeasurable power if it meant putting Thrall's head on a spike"

slender quest
#

About sylvy ❤️

tropic trail
#

No

slender quest
unborn glacier
# faint nova I have very little doubt

Nah man. Our Warchief turned to ash. His soul is gone for good. But he went out like an absolute Chad. Stealing our kill and saying "Fuck you, everything I did I'd do again,"

tropic trail
#

People accepting Sylvanas' redemption got me like

faint nova
unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

It just happened too soon and pretty much out of nowhere

faint nova
#

Does anyone know where to buy Spatial Realignment Apparatus in 9.1 now?

tropic trail
#

"Oh Anduin was kinda hot I wish I didn't make him a bad guy"

unborn glacier
#

No, the writing was kinda on the walls

pulsar minnow
#

Honestly im in agreement with Lyo. Though she's not gonna be forgiven. Some people will forgive her but the general story wont

tropic trail
#

I mean Azshara wasn't forgiven for all the stuff she's done and she's still alive so 🤷

unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

Expansion isn't over yet, cmon

#

Uhh, the video is a meme? Chill, I'm not calling people thick-skulled

pulsar minnow
unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

I feel like a lot of people are getting their tempers up over the silliest stuff these days

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

A character can keep existing without being forgiven for their crimes

#

If anything, I'd call people who accept Sylvanas' redemption a bunch of "keep doing your thing"

#

Bruh

#

Are you not reading what I'm saying

#

No, I haven't read any message while I was typing mine. Why?

#

-_-

dense plover
#

im satisfied with that end for garrosh

pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

i wish it was rendered

tropic trail
dense plover
#

but i liked that ending

#

its fitting

#

he doesnt see himself as guilty

#

its not in his character

pulsar minnow
#

It fit his character. Garrosh did nothing wrong to the end baby

tropic trail
#

garrosh never did anything wrong

#

it's all an illusion

dense plover
#

if you listen to the jailer, he gave her her soul back and then freed everyone so they can handle her

#

he expects us to punish her better than he ever could

tropic trail
#

I'm not saying Sylvanas needs to die or that she deserves no redemption. Just make it last longer than a patch with her doubting her actions

dense plover
#

because torture means nothing to her

tropic trail
dense plover
#

i think it will last longer than a patch Lyo

unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

Her doubt phase only lasted a patch though!!

dense plover
#

i think in the end she will sacrifice herself

#

probably to save anduin

tropic trail
#

She's suddenly on our side because she shot an arrow at Zovaal

pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

not on our side

#

just not on the jailers side

#

enemy of my enemy

pulsar minnow
#

^

smoky scroll
#

i dispoint blizz

unborn glacier
smoky scroll
#

why all know this was going heppen

dense plover
#

she knows about the jailers plan

#

she has information we dont have

smoky scroll
#

ofc arbiter was compute heart stolen from jailer

#

mean was give aways from start

dense plover
#

it wasnt even stolen

#

technically

#

according to his dialogue in that cutscene, it was stolen from him to make the arbiter

#

he says AGAIN

smoky scroll
#

yes

tropic trail
#

I'd be all good with what happened if Sylvanas wasn't straight edge about everything she did until Shadowlands

smoky scroll
#

so belong to him

dense plover
#

which means at some point there was no arbiter

#

or maybe HE was the arbiter?

smoky scroll
#

yes i tink so 2

tropic trail
#

Make her doubt her actions more in BfA and Legion, show character development rather than rush it

dense plover
#

but like

smoky scroll
#

jailer boss wich sould go ware

dense plover
#

the anima stuff only really was made in order to trap the jailer

#

so there might not have been an arbiter before

tropic trail
#

It's almost as if Sonic the fucking Hedgehog wrote Sylvanas' script

smoky scroll
#

sloppy

#

relly sloppy

#

dispoint

unborn glacier
#

I think he definitely was the Arbitor at some point and the Eternal Ones created her and the "Purpose"

smoky scroll
#

it not even she automatron

#

it it ting stolen jailer i get him for want his stuff back

unborn glacier
#

Ne, she is 100% an automaton.

smoky scroll
#

yes

tropic trail
#

"The Maw... Is NOTHING! The Jailer is nothing!" angrily flies away

smoky scroll
#

like most sey hallowd purpos

#

tink this just way blizz sey kill of shadowlands

#

big fail experment

#

well i read this right lyo maw extension jailer him self

dense plover
smoky scroll
#

he cen do whit it as he want

tropic trail
#

The what in the what with the what, now?

smoky scroll
#

he change it at will

tropic trail
#

Do you think she'll just be the standard undead elf archer now?

smoky scroll
#

yes

#

i tink she will change back intro life form

#

just like foretold

#

she will save azaroth from somting bigger then old gods

tropic trail
#

Done writing fanfic?

smoky scroll
#

who ?

tropic trail
#

You

#

Because there's no way in heck that Sylvanas in base form, no Banshee powers, can stop even Bolvar from kicking her shit in

#

Girls, stop fighting, you're both pretty

#

I know

smoky scroll
#

i sey she lost all her power

pulsar minnow
#

All I can say for certain is that I'm happy with the outcome of this cinematic. The Jailer looks freaking awesome and I can't wait to see what realm we go to next

tropic trail
#

So how is she gonna stop an old god level threat with no power?

#

I can't english with you

smoky scroll
#

sorry

#

was tink meby just like illdan story same will heppen to her ?

tropic trail
#

But it made sense for Illidan. He's the most powerful protagonist. He needed to be written out of the story somehow

#

So that Sargeras can make a grand return using his body

smoky scroll
#

not heard any them even void lord old gods there minions so real power voidlords ?

#

even strike fear titan sargeras

tropic trail
#

Void lords are too powerful to enter our realm of existence

#

They're like 5 dimensional in our 3 dimensional world

smoky scroll
#

but did not lose nearly all there power moment come intro realm of exstence ?

#

did not take lot there power ?

#

if i rember guy outland destroy etreal home world right ?

tropic trail
#

That was millenias ago

smoky scroll
#

treu

#

his name all devour or somting like thet

#

only void beron i believe

tropic trail
#

Void Lord

smoky scroll
#

oo i see

tropic trail
#

But they're too strong to show up in our dimension. So they throw pieces of themselves on planets in order to corrupt possible Titan Souls

#

And create Void Gods

smoky scroll
#

ok

tropic trail
#

Azeroth is such a Titan Soul. There's been a few old gods that we took care of

#

But Xal'atath may be up to some shady business

smoky scroll
#

2 left do

#

dont know how big old god are

#

might ever big world

tropic trail
#

I think Chris Metzen once said Azeroth is the same size as Earth

smoky scroll
#

aa fair eugh

#

back 2 old god left

#

yogg sharon

#

oter 1 push them back did not kill them

#

n zoth

#

and yashaara

#

do you tink will make return some point ?

tropic trail
#

N'zoth is dead. Yogg-Saron might be dead, we don't know. C'thun was killed in the comics, which aren't canon

smoky scroll
#

mean medan too powerfull

#

honest

tropic trail
#

Medan was a Mary Sue

#

No flaws, no weaknesses

#

He was the only guardian powered by every class instead of just mages

#

That seems too OP if you ask me

smoky scroll
#

he son madiv

tropic trail
#

The son of Medivh and Garona, yes

smoky scroll
#

possion avatar thet time

#

meby saw it alntetive vessel for avatar ?

#

back up plan ?

tropic trail
#

Medivh was the vessel of Sargeras

#

And he died. Then Aegwynn, his mom, resurrected him

smoky scroll
#

treu

tropic trail
#

Aegwynn isn't exactly a pushover, either

#

She is the only guardian that didn't want to pass down her power to a random mage

#

She specifically chose her son

smoky scroll
#

then again dalaren push you all time mean dont blame her for she did

#

kadgar only worty succes mental gardain fairness

#

kadgar did not want power but did not sey no

tropic trail
#

Khadgar could have played a role in Shadowlands

#

LOL just... LOL gotta just come in here for sylvanas laughing at her etc.

#

But Blizzard are probably saving him for another Legion expansion

#

The Legion is done with

#

No it's not

smoky scroll
#

legion never done

tropic trail
#

Archimonde's dead, Kil Jaeden's dead, Sargeras is sitting in an eternal timeout corner

smoky scroll
#

ton demons left

#

and sargers not done yet

tropic trail
#

Sargeras still lives. Illidan is there and Sargeras will most likely corrupt him

pulsar minnow
#

Khadgar is probably being saved for Elune and further cosmological shenanigans. He's in Oribos anyways

tropic trail
#

He is?

#

Part of the reason Shadowlands sucks so much is because they tried to make a 2nd Scourge expansion when the Scourge was already wrapped up

#

well it could work with bolvar

smoky scroll
#

scourge dead moment arthes dead

tropic trail
#

but they dropped bolvar

smoky scroll
#

wart

#

arthes treu lich king not sloppy bolvar

tropic trail
#

They showed a few really fun attacks during Bolvar's battle with Sylvanas

#

I want that mechanic of remorseless winter and hidden hammer swings

#

That's so cool

smoky scroll
#

arthes way more powerfull then bolvar

tropic trail
#

Arthas had Frostmourne and was a paladin in his prime

#

Bolvar was older, burned to a crisp by Alexstrasza and only had the hat

pulsar minnow
smoky scroll
#

arthes beat illdan as his weakest

tropic trail
#

Garrosh's permadeath was far cooler than the ending to this raid

#

Are you sure that's not a rogue order hall indicator?

smoky scroll
#

i dont know he so close the lich king do

tropic trail
#

Arthas beat Illidan right outside of the Frozen Throne when Ner Zhul was juicing him with all his remaining power to stop him

#

Illidan let him win

smoky scroll
#

but why ?

tropic trail
#

No Illidan was a cocky elf that was fighting someone at near-demigod levels of power

#

Because he was sick of Kil'jaeden and needed a reason to nope out

#

LK is really OP

#

Being severely wounded seemed like a perfect reason

#

Not seeing Illidans giant frostmourne scar in wow is a shame

#

Yea

smoky scroll
#

illdan not power hunger ?

tropic trail
#

But consider this

#

Illidan is the only survivor of a strike from Frostmourne

smoky scroll
#

kiljeaden offer him limetless power return ?

#

destory nerzul ?

#

not sure if kiljeaden kept his word do

#

not call deciever reason

tropic trail
#

Illidan was scared by Kil'jaeden during that time

#

He got better

tropic trail
#

His soul can't be fucked with like a normal person

#

Wouldn't call some of Arthas' victims "normal people"

#

Look at the Uther cinematic again, count the cuts on Uther's body and look how deep they are

unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

Yeah, Arthas was just scratching him and he was weakened

#

No like the fact that Illidan is a demon means he has

unborn glacier
#

Since when is Khadgar in Oribos?!

tropic trail
#

A different soul

#

Than non-demons

#

Illidan doesn't have a different soul, he just has a demon amped soul

#

It can't be affected by Maw magic or w/e

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

Because demons experience a fundamentally different afterlife

#

He absorbed the power of a demon soul into his soul

#

That's how the demon hunters work

#

Yes his soul operates on demon rules not normal person rules

unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

He goes to the twisting nether instead of the shadowlands

#

Hence why frostmourne didn't affect him

pulsar minnow
unborn glacier
#

He still has all his Guardian power

tropic trail
#

Put Arthas against any other demon that's about Illidan's level and he'll one shot them

#

Illidan is fucking strong

unborn glacier
#

Last time we saw him, he flew off into the twisting NETHER... AS A rAVEN

#

Damn caps loc

tropic trail
#

What's a demon on Illidans level

#

Mannoroth

#

And even Hellscream managed to one shot him with an axe to the head

#

Power levels make no sense

#

But Illidan is the most powerful protagonist

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

HAHAHAHAHA

#

AHAHAHAHAH

unborn glacier
#

LMFAO

tropic trail
#

Wowhead

quasi vale
#

litteraly a meme

tropic trail
#

Make Pepe Sylvanas an emote

#

I'll pay

wet bolt
#

she looks like a toad!

quasi vale
#

fkn next patch is gonna be her hero arc where she helps us and be the good grill in the end

#

so glad i let wow go

#

wouldve been horrible to still play and see this happening

deep pawn
#

I feel like I'm the only one that's fine with the story.

quasi vale
#

trying to wrestly my mind to think that sargeras actually sworded azeroth in half and thats where everything ended

deep pawn
#

Not like half the Venthyr plot being redeeming Kael'thas

quasi vale
#

rest is fanfic

unborn glacier
quasi vale
smoky scroll
#

still dispoint did my boy garrosh

quasi vale
#

this is just bad fanfic level of story

smoky scroll
#

going out lame ending sad tims

unborn glacier
pulsar minnow
quasi vale
#

🙃

quasi vale
#

jailer is thrift store thanos

#

sylvanas is thrift store daenerys

#

blizzard used to copy and make better

pulsar minnow
#

I get you on the mysteries stuff, but I dont agree on the Jailer stuff. He was the original Arbiter

quasi vale
#

now they just copy

tropic trail
pulsar minnow
#

I mean Arthas is literally just Anakin

tropic trail
#

Arthas was before Anakin

pulsar minnow
#

by like 2 months

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

No by several years

quasi vale
pulsar minnow
#

scratch that youre right

tropic trail
#

Yes the prequels where anakin isn't a snot nosed brat that podraces came out after wc3

pulsar minnow
#

arthas did come after anakin though.. but not the whole arc

quasi vale
#

but the beginning of the arc was already written before the prequels

tropic trail
#

The concept of a fall from grace predates star wars

quasi vale
#

we all knew that anakin was a jedi that got corrupted by the emperor

#

by ep^6

pulsar minnow
#

anyways just because there's similarities doesn't mean everything is a ripoff. I doubt Lucasfilm wanted to copy WC3

quasi vale
#

its a tride and true story that works

#

a story being common doesnt mean its a ripoff

#

when people try to be original but really they are just shit, thats where the problem is

pulsar minnow
quasi vale
#

also i have a side theory on shadowlands and blizzard overall

unborn glacier
quasi vale
#

i think that the reason they are underdelivering so hard is because most of the people they have are working on a reboot of the world for 10.0 or a wow2 type of deal, like a realm reborn

#

makes no sense that with the most amount of devs the team ever had they put out so little content

#

i don't buy incompetence to that level

tropic trail
#

Nah I think there's just massive brain drain

quasi vale
#

thats true

#

but foot soldiers are more numerous than ever

#

theres work being done

#

just not on SL is my theory

#

lead being asshats just means it won't be good

tropic trail
#

WoW is so fkin ancient it needs a new update

#

You can tell

pulsar minnow
#
  1. Covid. I know it's beyond annoying but it's still true. Even God Of War 5 had to be delayed and they've got a pretty big team. 2. a fellow user in this discord apparently hears some of the goings ons inside, and it's pretty easy to tell they split and are now all working on 9.2 right now
quasi vale
unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

Shadowlands lore just sux

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

Like it's really bad

quasi vale
#

i mean a cataclysm-realm reborn type reboot

#

where they dump all the old content thats already in the shitter anyways

#

and put new shit in place of it

#

(shit being a word not taken randomly)

#

i know theyll never do a real wow2

#

closest thing they could do would be either the famous timeskip, or this new thing using the jailer

#

like

#

in mass effect

#

you win

#

but the universe still resets

#

i think this would be how they end SL and justify a reboot of the world

#

like

#

the jailer puts the reset in motion

#

but he isnt there to see it through

tropic trail
#

So celebrate almost 40 years of WoW lore by fucking erasing it?

quasi vale
#

theres another movie that does this but idr which one

tropic trail
#

So there's this rich smug dude who's allied with WoW Satan and the rich smug dude created vampires and the vampires left the rich smug dude's home and joined space demons for... reasons? And they convince WoW Satan to make magic armor to create the Scourge on Azeroth to help WoW Satan because the rich smug dude that created them is friends with WoW Satan but they also don't want the Scourge rebelling against the Burning Legion for... reasons??

quasi vale
#

since he left theyve done nothing but retcon his plot

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

So like

#

If thr nathrezim are on the jailers side

pulsar minnow
#

They’re not

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

Why were they making sure the Scourge didn't become powerful and independent in WC3?

#

And where does ner zhul fit into this?

quasi vale
pulsar minnow
#

It isn’t though

tropic trail
#

I thought ner zhul becoming the lich king was kil jaedens punishment for him being disobedient?

#

And the Scourge was kil jaedens creation?

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

But apparently it's the jailers?

quasi vale
quasi vale
pulsar minnow
#

Elondre dude you’re flat out making stuff up at this point

quasi vale
#

wym its true

pulsar minnow
#

Not all of this is retconned. The only thing that is is the Nathrezim’s origin

#

They serve Denathrius’ ends

quasi vale
#

the origin and the goal of all their scheming

#

all of it is retconned

tropic trail
#

yeah but the nathreizm are allied with denathrius who is allied with the jailer

quasi vale
#

the scourge wasnt made by KJ

tropic trail
#

Sylvanas' motivation was also retconned

quasi vale
#

it was brought from maldraxus

tropic trail
#

First she sought immortality because she was afraid of dying again

quasi vale
#

yada yada yada

pulsar minnow
#

The scourge was made by KJ. Maldraxxus is just the source of necromantic magic

quasi vale
#

when the retcons outnumber the amount of plot points that make sense thats when you enter bad fanfic territory

#

everything that doesnt fit new lore gets retconned one way or another

tropic trail
#

Then her motivation changed to "Let's cause death, I can level up"

pulsar minnow
#

But when you make up retcons where there are none you’re just raging

quasi vale
#

and its been that since chronicles 2

tropic trail
#

wait so

young latch
#

It’s nice to finally see the game recognize that arthas does indeed fuck up and shatter souls when he raises them with frostmourne.

tropic trail
#

I've said it a million times before. We need context behind what the Jailer is doing

#

Maldraxxus is literally just Plaguelands from WoW and everything looks like Naxxramas and Archerus because the Scourge copied their architecture?

#

Just have a regular Joe walk up to him like "Hey man, I'm not stopping you, but y u do dis?"

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

Ah I see

#

So like

young latch
tropic trail
#

He wants to destroy reality. Okay, why?

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

What purpose does that serve?

young latch
#

He wants to remake reality to fit his desires.

tropic trail
#

"it is the only action one could take that would have any purpose" seems kinda vague

quasi vale
#

that goes into the retcon bin

tropic trail
#

Remember when undead naga were a big deal?

#

There have only been a few undead naga in Northrend

#

So what purpose does Balnazzar starting the Scarlet Crusade to fight undead serve if the undead being on Azeroth is a good thing for the Nathrezim

pulsar minnow
#

The Jailer was the first Arbiter and was stationed as such by the First Ones. He had no choice in the matter and grew to despise his creators over millennia. He got so fed up that he wanted to make his own reality to escape what was essentially eternal damnation. When he went to his siblings to ask for the keys, they refused and that was the final straw for Zovaal. He then went ballistic and in the end the Primus had to weapon the secrets that the First Ones had entrusted to him in the form of Domination magic. There’s your Zovaal backstory now that we have the new info

tropic trail
#

Maybe because he knows a pride of brainless idiots is useless

#

And wants them exterminated

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

How did Arthas go rogue?

#

Was it killing Ner Zhul?

#

He killed two dreadlords

#

The other escaped with Sylvanas

quasi vale
pulsar minnow
#

The Helm of Domination never fully controlled Arthas. So he just did what he wanted which wasn’t apart of the Burning Legion or the Jailer’s plans. That’s why the Legion would send Illidan after Arthas in WC3

quasi vale
#

the problem is that its an antagonist that is magically behind everything wrong in the universe that just pops out of nowhere

tropic trail
hot crane
#

Am angry

tropic trail
#

Oh wait no

quasi vale
tropic trail
#

Tichondrius killed Balnazar

#

On Sylvanas' orders

quasi vale
#

the infinite respawn thing made this make more sense

tropic trail
#

Mal ganis getting killed was part of the plan, Arthas was supposed to go to northrend and pick up frostmourne to kill him and complete his corruption

quasi vale
#

at the time this was written, the twisting nether infinite respawn for demons wasnt canon

quasi vale
#

mal ganis was hoping the lich king would dominate arthas and make him do their bidding

#

he didnt know the lk went rogue

tropic trail
#

So the Jailer wanted the Scourge under the control of the Legion?

quasi vale
#

in new lore ?

tropic trail
#

What happens hypothetically if the Legion succeeds and they have no more use for the Scourge as their purpose was to soften up Azeroth for their invasion

quasi vale
#

he just needed the scourge to exist

#

to have power over azeroth

#

for some reason

#

i guess the sepulcher is on azeroth

#

he needed the helm and frostmourne out of the maw is what he needed

#

the legion provided

#

the rest was just collateral to make his things useful

#

and not thrown in the nether

tropic trail
#

This seems far more convoluted than just

young latch
tropic trail
#

"Evil demons made an army of zombies as part 1 of their plan for world domination"

#

"And the zombies had a revolution"

#

Then again retcons are par for the course for wow

#

like really

quasi vale
#

retcons is the new norm

tropic trail
#

This shit isn't anything new

#

Nah even back in like tbc

quasi vale
#

it was always just warped with hate and sorrow, never was it mentioned it shattered the soul

#

also the shatter thing was made frostmourne specific

tropic trail
#

With the whole existence of draenei as they are or killing illidan for reasons or in Wrath kel thuzad surviving and "there must always be a lich king"

young latch
quasi vale
quasi vale
young latch
quasi vale
young latch
#

Vs the usual first war old banshees that were based on night elves

quasi vale
#

that concept was introduced with the afterlives short

#

also

#

funny inconsistency

#

they made uther's soul clearly split

#

but not sylvanas'

young latch
#

Was clear to me

quasi vale
#

not because "my good twin was sent to good guy jail"

young latch
#

Well yes but this is literalist magic here

#

I think of it more as, like, losing your ability to empathize and then regaining it.

quasi vale
#

sorta

#

but that was never mentioned that it could be regained before the uther storyline

#

and now she justs

#

fucking gets triggered by one word

#

and vietnam back to good guy town

#

WITHOUT her good soul part

#

that was just so stupid

#

if he just gave her her soul back before she rebelled

#

that would have made SOME sense within the current lore

young latch
#

I am glad it could be regained personally so that she can be written less like a robot in the future and feel like her wc3 self again

quasi vale
#

but if the part of her soul capable of empathy and good WASNT THERE then HOW DID SHE FEEL THOSE THINGS HM?

pulsar minnow
#

Because she's still a freaking person regardless if she's missing part of herself

#

she still feels. Just like Uther

quasi vale
#

its just inconsistent

#

they showed her feeling nothing at all for 2-3 extensions

#

then magically when the plots needs her to feel things she does

young latch
#

Yeah I mean she clearly still had some empathy left

#

But now I think she has all of her missing pieces back.

quasi vale
#

fucking burning the tree because some elf wasnt yielding and smiling while doing it

#

into "i won't serve you neeeh"

young latch
#

And I think that rules.

quasi vale
#

makes no sense

pulsar minnow
#

Sylvanas had emotional moments though

#

The Sisters Short Story showed that clearly

quasi vale
#

wym i dont get it

pulsar minnow
#

No. She refused to kill her sisters even though that was the plan

#

that was the mission

#

she chose not to follow it

quasi vale
#

well yea but then she fucking genocided a whole people for funzies

#

how is that the same person

pulsar minnow
#

Because she is still crazy? Crazy people can still love things

young latch
quasi vale
#

that is the part that makes everything a jenga tower

#

she has no business at all to help this fk

pulsar minnow
quasi vale
#

he is responsible for all she views as evil in the universe

young latch
quasi vale
#

at least we don"t know she did

#

and if this was what they went with they would have put it somewhere

young latch
#

I think she does in Sister is Another name for always?

quasi vale
#

like "i have to do this" instead of "this is the right thing to do" attitude

#

she was presented as a zealot of this cause

young latch
quasi vale
#

not as a reluctant force

#

yea thats the big problem

#

sylvanas hated arthas because he defiled her country and made her this way

#

before that she was just a patriot elf

#

so litteraly

#

killing arthas became her reason to be

young latch
#

Mhm

quasi vale
#

but not because its arthhas

#

because of what was done

#

and who made arthas do it ?

#

zovy

#

thats the part that makes no sense she would help him

young latch
#

I thought it wad a mix of himself and the old lk and zovy

quasi vale
#

original sylvanas would have sudoku before helping that person if that was the only choice she had

#

theres the whole part where arthas silenced her magically because she would not stop to bother him

young latch
#

Like I think it was his own personal spite that made him do some of his evil@things besides magic. But I think that’s something we can’t ever know with magic at play.

quasi vale
#

because she just wanted to die if she could not be at least free

#

and the moment she got any inch of freedom

#

her only goal was revenge

pulsar minnow
quasi vale
#

i think its in the arthas novel

pulsar minnow
#

Danuser clarified Arthas was of his own free will

quasi vale
#

or chronicles

#

idr

pulsar minnow
#

he had "influences" but it was arthas the whole time

young latch
quasi vale
#

arthas of his own free will wouldnt have murdered his people lol

young latch
quasi vale
#

influences dont make you 180 on your life mission

young latch
#

And framed those mercenaries

quasi vale
#

yea the merc thing and all was still him

#

he wanted revenge on mal ganis

#

he got it

young latch
#

So That’s what made me think he was bad before magic

quasi vale
#

and then a lot of time passed

#

he came back to terenas and succeeded him

#

during this time the influence became much more than just that

pulsar minnow
#

He then fused with Ner'zhul though. Then they became one and he did the bad stuff. Prior to Wrath Arthas was driven mad and gained power over Ner'zhul, tossing him out of the helm

quasi vale
#

the point is the time skip between the human campaign and the undead campaign of w3

quasi vale
pulsar minnow
#

It was in the Arthas Novel that released in Wrath

quasi vale
#

in the arthas novel, nerzhul is still here

quasi vale
#

what i mean is

#

when he dies

#

the is it over

#

and the locket thing

#

and the kid in icc quest chain

faint nova
#

Sylvanas lives....and apparently gets her soul back

pulsar minnow
#

I mean yeah that's Arthas. He was able to see clearly

quasi vale
#

clearly shown that he wasnt himself

pulsar minnow
#

Yeah we've been discussing it quite a bit

quasi vale
#

quite

young latch
#

I’m a fan of it and thought it would happen for years so.

pulsar minnow
#

Regardles on the opinions on Sylvanas any of us may have. I think we all have to agree the new Jailer is freaking awesome

young latch
#

I hope he’s not an easily dispatched threat. I want him to stick around.

#

Even after sl

upper edge
#

So if the new raid has a new cinematic on what happens to Sylvanas and shit does it connect to the actual campaign?

quasi vale
#

i hoped new jailer would look like his original leak

#

like a cool titan

#

he just looks like "badass torghast trashmob" rn its kinda sad

#

the plate legendary set is almost the same than what he wears

#

its kinda sad

pulsar minnow
#

I mean its the same theme but that's the only similarity

#

completely different designs

young latch
faint nova
#

either played for him, or for Anduin

young latch
#

Alleria

quasi vale
#

i mean

young latch
#

Especially after that short story

upper edge
quasi vale
upper edge
#

I don’t get the connection here lmfao

quasi vale
#

its the same set

#

except he has an ardenweald chestpiece

#

for some reason

young latch
quasi vale
faint nova
#

the chestpiece......oh god no

#

it reminds me of the Drust!

quasi vale
#

thats why they won't talk about arthas

faint nova
#

.....wait a minute

#

oh god no

quasi vale
faint nova
#

If Arthas returns in Shadowlands

#

.....it.....

#

it'll be

quasi vale
#

hes gonna get redeemed too

#

yep

faint nova
#

The return of the king?

#

badum tsh

upper edge
quasi vale
#

shes gonna be a prisoner

#

tyrande will mald

#

shes gonna give useful info

pulsar minnow
#

I don't know why you guys keep talking about the drust in reference to his chestplate but hey whatever

quasi vale
#

shell get pardoned

#

and then be the hero that saves everything

#

and illidan out of the story

#

you just know this is what will happen

pulsar minnow
#

it wont. nobody is going to forgive her except her loyalists in the playerbase

young latch
#

I like tyrande focusing on productive feelings more than vindictive ones will be good for her and her people

quasi vale
young latch
#

Especially since this isn’t the first time she’s refused to admit she isn’t the total voice of justice

faint nova
#

something else I just realized

#

Denathrius might still have a trump card up his sleeve

#

it MIGHT just be a statue, but most things in Revendreth ARENT.....that being said, there's that KAIJU SIZED Stoneborn on top of Castle Nathria

quasi vale
#

they all have the scenario up their sleeve

quasi vale
#

because i do

#

lol

smoky scroll
#

well jailer the treu lich king

#

tink

#

arthes nezul all pawn big plan jailer

faint nova
young latch
#

Okay but it probably would have been a part of the mechagnome patch

#

And gazlowe is way cooler than gallywix to me

#

So I’m glad we didn’t get gallywix plot before gazlowe was reestablished

faint nova
#

it prolly wouldve been Gallywix firing it to prevent Gazlowe from taking over

#

OR

quasi vale
#

its aimed at stormwind

#

this part is canon

faint nova
#

Gazlowe wouldve sent us undercover to spy on Gallywix, and Gally uses us to "prepare" the cannon, but all that happens is it falls apart thanks to us

young latch
#

I want them to throw down

#

That’s the goblin content i want

#

I want gazlowe to beat the shit out of him

#

Lmao

faint nova
#

it wont happen, but I'd love for it to be the ONE super serious moment in Goblin lore

#

Gallywix just crying uncle and whatnot

#

and Gazlowe just going "No" and continuing to beat him with a wrench

crisp steeple
#

just saw cinematic

#

no surprises there

tropic trail
#

Or Gallywix shows up with a line of bruisers that Gazlowe offered better pay and workgobs comp benefits beforehand and they turn on him and just start wailing on the fat bastard

faint nova
#

@tropic trail Can they shoot him out of a cannon afterwards? XD

quasi vale
#

would love to see denuser shot out of the circus by a canon though 🙃

#

cant find the gif