raising someone into undeath changes them
#beta-ptr-spoilers
dense plover
hazy kettle
It annoys me to all end, especially since I've been a roleplayer for a long time and a lot of people hate on Death Knights that aren't literal ice cold killing machines.
Can't have a codex of honor, can't have remorse, can't have understanding.
dense plover
the entire point of being freed is about how you regain your independence
hazy kettle
Literally a quest in which you're shown to be remorseful
"Don't you remember" insert x place your race has been
young latch
yeah that's the one that i felt was not good
and i think kind of pigeonholed sylvanas way too much
dense plover
i didnt feel it was bad
hazy kettle
Syl's character, imo, is well written and her choices (up to Shadowlands, without that lore drop) are quite understandable, too.
Buuuuuuuuut...
The reason I do not want to see her be turned into a martyr
pulsar minnow
They won’t make her a martyr
hazy kettle
Is the fact that, in one of the novels / stories about her (I think her own backstory), she considers her own people as just "arrows in her quiver".
She has surpassed that attitude in undeath though, apparently.
Which, considering Shadowlands lore, is interesting, given the fact that this is - supposedly - only half of her soul, the negative one, at that.
young latch
See, I think that "arrows in her quiver" thing kind of flanderized the interesting WC3 character intro something too simple.
hazy kettle
.. Honestly, quite likely, yeah.
It's just something that peeves me personally, when people play her up as a heroic and benevolent queen of her people (not an actual queen, obviously) even in life.
Unless they retcon that. ö. ö Then.. Then we can talk about it.
young latch
I like the idea of the undead having moral complexity and I like the idea of "everybody thinks we're weird and gross and is trying to anhilate us but also at the same time we're not going to be wholesome and pure either"
hazy kettle
Friggin' Tidesage (Insert name here, that I forgot) actually wants to help his family.
vocal flint
think people are just tired of sylvanas honestly. it feels like we have had her being the focus point since legion and its like.... die or get in the sidelines already
hazy kettle
He CARES deeply.
But no, the Undead can't have feelings. ö. ö
True, @vocal flint
Cataclysm was no Varian story, Pandaria was no Varian story, WoD was no Varian story.
vocal flint
its like when people goes " not another fucking orc expansion again "
hazy kettle
Yup.
vocal flint
in b4 next expac is light based with exarch hellscream and the light horde
young latch
An orc expansion about the elements would have been interesting, actually, but we never get one.
hazy kettle
Wouldn't even mind. @vocal flint
I actually enjoy the fact that they showed the Dark Side of the light with that brief excursion back to AU Draenor.
pulsar minnow
Honestly I just can’t see next expansion being light/void themed
young latch
i can but i don't think it would just be light/void
pulsar minnow
Unfortunately ion basically already said that’s not happening
hazy kettle
I - kinda - hope for that too.
I wonder what the next expac will be, if it's not Light / Void tho.
pulsar minnow
Elune
young latch
could be the other side of azeroth
vocal flint
if elune is just the ice queens sister then i doubt they can make a whole expansion based solely on her
hazy kettle
Also, there's been a pic of a necropolis floating about (possibly Northend) recently.
pulsar minnow
If the Shadowlands is an expansion, you’d think the origins of all life would be an expansion too
hazy kettle
An apparent 9.2 leak.
pulsar minnow
That’s almost certainly fake
hazy kettle
Have you seen the pic?
vocal flint
elune isnt the origin of all life
pulsar minnow
Yes and it looks fake
vocal flint
shes an equal to her sister.
hazy kettle
Not imo.
vocal flint
so i doubt shes that powerful to start with
hazy kettle
But it doesn't look fitting, I'll give you that, as it's more of a real render.
pulsar minnow
Look at the clouds. They don’t look anything like the usual clouds in Blizz cinematics
young latch
If the Shadowlands is an expansion, you’d think the origins of all life would be...
I think a life themed expansion would be good but i also think we're due for more expansions on azeroth itself.
vocal flint
can you show that picture? ive no clue what yall talking about
hazy kettle
^
dense plover
like - why take such an insignificant area in northrend
hazy kettle
Also, "the clouds look nothing like Blizz clouds" I don't feel that.
vocal flint
could just be a cinematic
dense plover
why not the big dragon skeleton, why not the big dragon tower?
young latch
i think galakrond is eventually gonna come back
hazy kettle
The biggest leg the counter claims stand on is the fact that this is clearly not an ingame cinematic.
But an actual render.
young latch
that's my guess for a later big bad
hazy kettle
Funnily enough, that's what the article also mentions, @young latch
dense plover
render cinematic for first major zone patch isnt that strange
dense plover
pretty sure
vocal flint
really hope they focus more on 9.2 and the rest of shadowlands honestly lol
dense plover
tho i think the 8.2 one had a different focus
that was the one with thrall and saurfang in nagrand i think
pulsar minnow
I doubt 9.2 is going to be on Azeroth though. The Jailer is after the Sepulcher. That’s absolutely going to be a raid
hazy kettle
OH SHIT, YOU RIGHT
dense plover
9.2 could be patch focused especially since we havent gotten many rendered cinematics
dense plover
sepulcher will be part of the conclusion of shadowlands
hazy kettle
Inb4 the Sepulcher is on Azeroth
young latch
what is the sepulcher again?
dense plover
whether we win or lose is gonna be the bigger thing
dense plover
we dont know - its where forbidden knowledge is locked away
pulsar minnow
I dunno. The sepulcher seems fine. In BFA we had Azshara’s raid teased since legion
hazy kettle
Wasn't the Primus the one who knew where the Sepulcher was?
dense plover
it could be that the key is a unique world soul
pulsar minnow
The sepulcher has been in our face. Why would Zovaal dally and not go there immediately
dense plover
because he probably doesnt have the key
hazy kettle
It isn't in our face, @pulsar minnow
pulsar minnow
But he does at the end of 9.1
dense plover
thats sorta the thing with the sigils maybe
we dont know if thats what the sigils are for
pulsar minnow
The sigils unlock the Sepulcher
dense plover
it could be for getting out of the maw
pulsar minnow
What’s keeping Zovaal in the Maw is the domination runes
vocal flint
thats the main conclusion
pulsar minnow
The Eternal Ones state that Zovaal saw their sigils as keys to forbidden knowledge
hazy kettle
It's just really unfitting to have that cinematic, and then redesign him. xD
pulsar minnow
I think that old look is going to come back tbh
hazy kettle
Oh? Source of that? Need to know more! @pulsar minnow ❤️
vocal flint
can you imagine him with a big fluffy beard tho
dense plover
I think that old look is going to come back tbh
i dont
its lame
it just looks like another titan
which is probably the intention of that design
before they decided that another pantheon didnt mean more titans
vocal flint
i dont even remember but isnt the shadowlands also a titan construct ?
dense plover
no
pulsar minnow
Nah it looks great. He’s creepy and gives off a real “Lich king” vibe
vocal flint
the ancient ones i guess
pulsar minnow
Oh? Source of that? Need to know more! <@!274976762105167883> ❤️
The 9.1 intro
vocal flint
well they need to get a better architect lol
hazy kettle
Oribos does have that titan feel
But apparently it's from the First Ones.
Missed that then, gotta rewatch! @pulsar minnow
Anywho, it's 00:27, I should be in bed and I still gotta clean up. TTYL, pals!
pulsar minnow
My prediction for this expac: 9.2 sends us to the Broker Plane of the Shadowlands to learn where the Sepulcher is since Cartel Al knows it’s location/has been researching it. The Jailer wins there again and we head off to his old plane of the shadowlands to figure out a weakness. We return to Azeroth and the final raid takes place in the Heart of Azeroth right outside the very world soul. [insert some crazy reveal like Azeroth is a First One]
dense plover
i think youre like - half right
i think we will go to the broker area
but i think itll be a side area like mechagon
not the main zone
i think 9.2 will have some kind of rotating zone invasions involving torghast assaulting the different zones maybe
slender quest
@dense plover what do you think happens at the end of the Sylvanas fight? In the cinematic
dense plover
hard to say
we are missing a few leadup cinematics i think
but its something that involves the skybox of oribos changing more
so i assume the arbiter is gonna die
or the maw will be freed
slender quest
Jailer taking the last sigil is a giving
dense plover
for sure
pulsar minnow
We already found the arbiters sigil so yeah you guys are right
slender quest
I guess Anduin won't be saved until 9.2 ?
slender quest
And Sylvanas? Not sure. I'm like 50/50 she survives/dies
However even if she dies I don't see her Story ending in 9.1
dense plover
he just got changed
no way she dies here either
everything of consequence is going to involve us losing
this is our wrathgate
we NEED to lose for the story to have meaning
slender quest
I agree
pulsar minnow
I can see sylvanas dying, but then becoming a soul and helping us out. (though wait, if she dies in her current form in the Shadowlands is she gone for good?)
slender quest
I can see sylvanas dying, but then becoming a soul and helping us out. (though w...
No
slender quest
She would become a Soul
tropic trail
Like, what sense would it make for this plan that his been literal eons in the making gets foiled just because we showed up? We're gonna have to fail a few times before we get it right
dense plover
^^^
this is wrath 2.0
we dont win until the end
and even then we will almost lose
hazy kettle
Maybe, just maybe, Blizz makes us lose big time.
slender quest
I hope Sylvanas will be a part of giving the Jailer the finishing blow. They denied her that with Arthas, so that would be very welcome to get her revenge at the guy who is basically responsible for everything in her life
tropic trail
And then we have to remember that while the cats are away the mice will play--there are plenty of groups back on Azeroth that will be up to some fuckery while its greatest champions are off fighting a cosmic battle and all of the major global nations are busy holding the uncontrolled Scourge in Northrend
hazy kettle
Actually, what could be interesting - what if he have to reoriginate Azeroth to stop the Jailer?
aka. smite him with the reorigination.
hazy kettle
uright, that's too unlikely.
hazy kettle
dense plover
we will get zones as needed, thats all
tropic trail
theyre never going to do a world overhaul
I don't mean a world overhaul
dense plover
the only things that NEED to be redone are the two main capitals
orgrimmar and stormwind
because they want them to stay relevant going forward
tropic trail
Pretty much
dense plover
it makes no sense
dense plover
and would require all of the assets to be made from scratch
hazy kettle
@slender quest I hear you - but that's not gonna happen.
tropic trail
If they do SMC, they'd have to justify doing all of the other racial capital cities
dense plover
so unless we have a blood elf expac, it wont happen
slender quest
😦
hazy kettle
I mean, we 'barely' got an "Exodar Rework", aka. fuck Draenei, you got no capital anymore
For reference, I currently play a Draenei Shaman, so this cuts deep
tropic trail
??
hazy kettle
The repairs are complete.
dense plover
its not destroyed
hazy kettle
No, it's not destroyed
dense plover
thats teldrassil and undercity
tropic trail
Yeah, AFAIK the Exodar is still in the dirt
dense plover
those are gone forever
hazy kettle
but it's literally, currently, the ship for the army of the light
aka. hovering over Azeroth
tropic trail
but it's literally, currently, the ship for the army of the light
That's not the Exodar
dense plover
they scrapped pieces to make the genodar?
tranquil steeple
that's... another ship entirely
hazy kettle
👀
tropic trail
Completely different ship
dense plover
whatever that ship is called
hazy kettle
Alright, I'll rephrase this.
tropic trail
Even the Exodar is just a branch of a larger facility
hazy kettle
A fair chunk of the Exodar was used to form the Vindicar, rendering the rest of the Exodar unable to fly, at all.
dense plover
the exodar was never going to fly again
tropic trail
The Exodar was already unable to fly
dense plover
that was a known a long time ago
hazy kettle
(Which I don't mind, because I don't want to go to space and visit 10 billion planets)
It was being repaired. O_ O
dense plover
the plan had been to build an escape vessel
hazy kettle
^
dense plover
instead they made the vindicaar - a faster vessel that allowed them to defeat te legion
tropic trail
It was irreparably sabotaged while leaving Tempest Keep by Kael'thas's blood elves
hazy kettle
Yes, point being, it's hovering above Azeroth currently and serves as the hub for the Army of the Light.
dense plover
the only reason they needed the ship in the first place was to run from the legion
now that the legion is gone, they dont need the exodar except as a base
hazy kettle
You guys don't get my point.
tropic trail
Because the Vindicaar isn't the Exodar
tropic trail
The Exodar wasn't going to fly even before the Vindicaar was built
dense plover
are you trying to say that the exodar isnt there anymore because of the vindicaar? because thats not right either
hazy kettle
I'm not saying that either. 👀
dense plover
they didnt tear the majority of the exodar down
hazy kettle
N- that's the closest we've come to what I'm saying @dense plover
dense plover
they scrapped the important engine bits
its still a massive existing structure
it just isnt a ship anymore
hazy kettle
dense plover
the ship bits are in the vindicaar
tropic trail
AFAIK many of the more operable pieces of the Vindicaar were salvaged from Tempest Keep in Outland and then constructed using drive components from the Exodar
hazy kettle
I feel the majority of it is gone.
dense plover
your feelings are wrong
tropic trail
It isn't
hazy kettle
@tropic trail 👀 That.. is news to me.
tropic trail
Stop feelycrafting
dense plover
theyve canonically stated they scrapped the repair efforts to make the vindicaar
tropic trail
But the Exodar as a base/city still exists
dense plover
not that they destroyed the exodar
the exodar is like 10x bigger than the vindicaar
the base materials from the exodar werent touched
just the ship bits
tropic trail
And Tempest Keep is even larger than the Exodar
dense plover
^
they abandoned their plans to fix the exodar - this means they cant ever leave azeroth
but they still have a base on azeroth
tropic trail
Not that they want to anymore anyway
dense plover
but they dont need to leave azeroth because the legion is gone
hazy kettle
Yes, I know they don't intend to leave Azeroth anymore. ow o
dense plover
thats why the draenei kept running
tropic trail
They have a home on Azeroth and also have reconnected with their surviving settlements in Outland
hazy kettle
Anywho, I'll happily concede my point.
I was wrong on the Exodar being scrapped, majorly.
hazy kettle
Which means I'm now of the hopes that it will get an update, along with Silvermoon City. 🤓
I'm kidding.
tranquil steeple
I mean you can hope, just don't expect it soon 
tropic trail
If cities got updated, chances are they'd roll out more or less in the same order as heritage armors
If
dense plover
i do hope they update SW and Org just because they are the only old cities new players experience and they dont match visually with the level of fidelity of everything else
dense plover
thats pretty much what I want
unborn glacier
💯
deep pawn
But we're gonna have Dalaran again when we go to the Dragon Isles haha
royal coral
I was thinking ... why do we have flying so early in Shadowlands ? Maybe because in 9.2/9.3 we won't go the SL anymore, maybe we'll return to Azeroth
mossy meteor
probably because they don't like pathfinder
slender quest
hey, is the game press site of wow also down for you guys?
I get "Service Unavailable"
deep pawn
It's not that early
And more people want flying than don't
I'm hoping they're finally giving up their crusade against it.
Bold to presume we'll even have a 9.3
pulsar minnow
Bold to presume we'll even have a 9.3
We said the same thing about 8.3 and we still got it
deep pawn
Based on blizzconline and the book, I'd expect 9.2 in February and then 10.0 some time in the late fall.
8.0 wasn't as long as 9.0
pulsar minnow
True but Blizzcon was delayed into next year, which leaves enough time for a 9.3
Remember that 8.3 launched after 9.0 was revealed
Of course anything could happen, but 9.3 is still a complete possibility
deep pawn
They'd have to develop the next two patches fast or have an expansion that lasts through to 2023 which would really put a damper on their q4 2022 numbers
dense plover
No way 9.2 takes that long
9.2 in October or November
Maybe December
With 9.2 announced at gamescom or something
And 9.3 and 10.0 the focus of BlizzCon
deep pawn
We're only 3 months away from October
It'd have to be in the ptr by the end of the month
pulsar minnow
Even then 9.2 can come out anytime between now and blizzcon
dense plover
Ptr should be the week after the last lfr wing
Part of why 9.1 took so long is that they definitely have half the team working on 9.2
Unlike 9.1 which lost its team members during the shadowlands launch delay
deep pawn
Even with a December 9.2 they'll need to decide between a 2022 expansion release or a 9.3 and I think the expansion will be what they choose.
deep pawn
8.3 was January
dense plover
I think they spent too much money on SLs and need to gain player favor
I think if they don’t do a 9.3 they kill off a bunch of their subscriber base
tropic trail
The interruption to the development cycle definitely didn't help
pulsar minnow
8.3 was January
January is 2020. We're like 2 months behind. A March 2022 9.3 and December launch wouldnt be bad
uncut vault
December/January 9.2, leading into february/march blizzconline seems like the most obvious and feasible release pattern to me
with hopefully a 9.1.5 somewhere in there to tide the time
tropic trail
It's almost as if there was an interruption to the development cycle
deep pawn
I just don't see where they magically develop a 9.3 in a couple months
pulsar minnow
they develop it?
tropic trail
Usually
deep pawn
Assuming 6 months of 9.1 and 6 months of 9.2 would put a theoretical 9.3 in June or July of 22. Then if alpha started instantly before the mythic race ended we'd still be looking at a 2023 expansion.
deep pawn
For us, the question is if the board will think that's okay.
dense plover
That they want the expac to play out
Well considering it was in one of the investor calls
Probably?
Expacs make most of their money from the subs
tropic trail
I'd rather they take their time instead of rushing to fit a tight schedule
dense plover
If they lose subs because they don’t push for 9.3 that’s bad
deep pawn
They gave up on yearly expansions, didn't think I read anything about 2 year being abandoned
I can easily see the story wrapping up in 9.2 with us killing the Jailer.
deep pawn
Eh?
pulsar minnow
the two major plotpoints and leads as to where the story is going
deep pawn
Just like with the legion, as soon as we kill the Jailer I bet we close the portal after. We save Azeroth from immediate peril and then the new jailer we likely set up ends the scourge somehow, yay plot convenience. Extra points for a cinematic showing undead in the cities just falling over.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the Sepulcher though
pulsar minnow
The Sepulcher. The thing that the Primus has repeatedly told us that we must not let the Jailer reach.
deep pawn
He's gonna reach that as part of his raid probably
pulsar minnow
yes. and then Azeroth
deep pawn
What of it?
pulsar minnow
"Death comes for the soul of your world"
deep pawn
That's what's happening with the Jailer and why killing him is the end of that plot. We likely stop him in the Sepulcher after he uses the Arbiter to reach it and we use her nifty platform to kill her before chasing after him.
pulsar minnow
Okay there's a concept in storytelling called Chekhov's Gun. You don't just introduce something like that and then forget about it
He wants azeroth for a reason
dense plover
^
I wouldn’t be surprised if you need a world soul to open the sepulcher
If it’s supposed to be forbidden knowledge - you have to make it nearly impossible to access
deep pawn
I still think it's the Arbiter that let's him reach it and the goal is to use the Sepulcher to kill Azeroth.
deep pawn
The Jailer is already after Azeroth, that was made clear in the prepatch
dense plover
Yes but why
deep pawn
Cause just like Sargeras, he hungry for that power booty
unborn glacier
Well no, Sargeras wanted to Kill Azeroth
deep pawn
He wanted to corrupt her
dense plover
Sargeras wanted to kill her as part of his crusade to wipe out the universe
unborn glacier
He wanted to corrupt her
No, he wanted to kill her to PREVENT her corruption.
dense plover
She was already corrupted
unborn glacier
He saw her as the voids ultimate weapon
dense plover
Azeroth was sargeras’ worst fear made manifest
A void corrupted titan
At least, potentially
deep pawn
Just feels we're being set up for the Jailer raid to be structured a bit like Argus was. Bonus points for being able to see Azeroth in the skybox for the final phase.
pulsar minnow
Cause just like Sargeras, he hungry for that power booty
That doesnt explain why
dense plover
We can already sorta see Azeroth in the skybox
I think it’s more likely the final raid is on Azeroth
And torghast is pulled there first
Maybe chained to something?
deep pawn
I haven't gotten any feeling like that. There's been plenty of warning that is what happens if the portal is open too long but the caretakers make it sound that if it reaches that point it's already too late which is why I think we stop it from even happening.
dense plover
I don’t think so considering the data mined oribos maw skybox thing
We will have a lot more to work with tomorrow
deep pawn
Plus it'd feel super lazy to have patch content be us dealing with Maw invasions in reworked Azeroth zones
dense plover
Not if they overhaul them like arathi
pulsar minnow
The final raid taking place on Azeroth doesn't necessarily mean the final zone is on azeroth
dense plover
If it’s like darkshore sure but not if it’s fully redone
Also that
The zone and the raid aren’t necessarily the same
deep pawn
It was a nice trick with BfA but it wouldn't work again.
pulsar minnow
Like, for all we know we could go to like, the inbetween for the final zone
dense plover
We are still missing the broker zone for sure
Considering korthia, it’s also possible there’s a keeper zone or something
pulsar minnow
My personal theory is that we go to the remnants of Zovaal's plane of the shadowlands prior to imprisonment, but all I know for certain is that there are two more open waygates in Oribos
deep pawn
There's lots of possibilities, but I just don't see two raids of content left. Nothing stops from the Jailer raid going to Azeroth and the Sepulcher. Antorus went to multiple places
dense plover
I think that plane probably IS the maw
But there could be a less damaged fragment
Either way, the next zone needs to be colorful and alive
The main zones right now are brown pale and grey
deep pawn
Well the mega dungeon is pretty colorful from what I've seen.
dense plover
Sure but it’s not a zone you are in daily
We need a zone in 9.2 that’s colorful and lively
uncut vault
its been an issue for a while now, areas like Eternal Palace, Nyalotha, etc. are absolutely gorgeous
dense plover
Otherwise the expac will suffer from palette burnout
uncut vault
but their equivalent zones are much more bare-bones and less exciting
deep pawn
Korthia is so small wouldn't shock me a broker zone was intended but cut.
dense plover
Korthia isn’t cut content
Like - we don’t usually get a 9.1 zone at all
But it was clearly always planned - they have to add to the maw each patch to keep it relevant
deep pawn
I remember before 9.1 was announced it was speculation that we'd see a Bastion or Drust raid. I just think the delays have led to a more condensed storyline.
pulsar minnow
I remember before 9.1 was announced it was speculation that we'd see a Bastion o...
Nah that was just pure speculation. It was obvious from the get go 9.1 would take us to the maw
deep pawn
So what do you think is 9.2 that fills an entire 8-10 boss raid but leaves enough for a Jailer raid.
dense plover
The bastion raid was based on the weapon
I think the 9.2 is our ulduar
Something unrelated but such a big threat that we can’t ignore it
Assuming I’m right and we lose at this raid and this IS our wrathgate
deep pawn
I just don't see where that threat comes from. We're wrapping up multiple covenant plots with this patch so not many loose ends left there.
I'm sure the cinematic tomorrow will explain plenty, but the flow of the story feels like we go after Anduin and the Jailer next. Add in a fallen Arbiter fight and you have your last 3 bosses of a raid.
4 if they make the Jailer a two parter
deep pawn
Not really
dense plover
There were hints but it was pretty out of the blue
I think the broker zone is our ulduar
Reminder that the brokers have been leaving their home in a mass exodus
And they won’t tell anyone else why
deep pawn
Saronite was a huge plot point in Wrath including the fact that it didn't affect the undead the same as the living
dense plover
My guess is it’s the source of those creatures eating at reality
In which case it’s also a big part of the shadowlands stuff in a sorta similar way
deep pawn
I'm sure they could do something with it, but a devourer raid doesn't sound that interesting.
pulsar minnow
just like nathria ^
deep pawn
I feel like we got our broker content with the dungeon
pulsar minnow
The dungeon only sets up more mysteries relating to them
dense plover
^^^^
It’s our saronite pit equivalent
Something wonky is up with the brokers
Half the cartels hate each other
And they are all fleeing their home for oribos where they are barely tolerated
tropic trail
Because there's business opportunities to be had
pulsar minnow
Cartel Al is looking heavily into the location of the Sepulcher which is our next goal once Zovaal is free
tropic trail
The Brokers are basically Venician merchants
dense plover
But what’s wrong with their home? Why is there a mass exodus?
Venetian merchants always returned to Venice
tropic trail
I wouldn't call it an exodus--they're just flocking to where the opportunities are
And we're a relatively lucrative new facet to the Shadowlands
Ofc they're gonna wanna show up in droves
deep pawn
Given their home is not in the Shadowlands, that plot thread feels like future expansion content
dense plover
They’ve literally said they can’t go back
Also their home is in the shadowlands
They’re one of the only fully native denizens
They’re not made of souls
tropic trail
I don't see the Brokers as anything more than the interdimensional equivalent to the Ethereals
deep pawn
When was that retconned?
dense plover
It wasn’t? At announcement they were called the true natives of the shadowlands
deep pawn
Caretakers in Oribos said they aren't native to the Shadowlands
tropic trail
Developing new information isn't a retcon
pulsar minnow
Given their home is not in the Shadowlands, that plot thread feels like future e...
No it isn't. it's in the shadowlands. been that way since day 1
dense plover
Caretakers said oribos isn’t their home
And complained about them showing up in droves
Because they’re fleeing their home for some reason
tropic trail
They said they're not natives to Oribos, not the Shadowlands themselves
The Shadowlands are way bigger than the areas we've seen so far
deep pawn
I'll have to reread quest texts, the only impression I ever got is they were from outside the Shadowlands and go wherever profit is to be made.
pulsar minnow
Native to an unnamed realm of the Shadowlands, Brokers possess an innate affinity for locating anima, even in the midst of the current drought. They appear eager to assist the mortals arriving in Oribos, offering their expertise in acquiring raw materials and crafting them into useful goods. Savvy and adaptable, the Brokers keep their true intentions to themselves. One thing is clear: they can provide a wide variety of exotic merchandise and valuable services . . . if the price is right.
tropic trail
Devourers are also just a wild native species of the Shadowlands that feasts on anima
dense plover
Yeah that blurb is from the announcement website
dense plover
Devourers are also just a wild native species of the Shadowlands that feasts on ...
Actually I think they’re from outside
Or at least manifestations of the inbetween
They eat away at the realms
tropic trail
Well yeah, they're stated as being from there
dense plover
Oh ok
Still
I think something with the devourers and brokers is our next patch
Maybe the jailer needs a relic the brokers have
And we can’t get to their realm without the help of the brokers
Which is when we find out their realm is a mess because of their hubris or something
tropic trail
Again--the Shadowlands is way bigger than Oribos, the Maw, and the four covenant regions. The Shadowlands is made of innumerable other realms
tropic trail
Which is when we find out their realm is a mess because of their hubris or somet...
I'm still sticking with them just being vagabond merchants
They're gonna go anywhere there's something of value to be had
dense plover
But it’s canon they are fleeing their realm for some reason
Some of the brokers have almost said stuff before others stopped them
And for some reason no one else has gone to their realm - if they even can
Not to mention the broker barge
pulsar minnow
Maybe the jailer needs a relic the brokers have
I think it's maybe that the Jailer doesn't know where the Sepulcher is now and needs the Brokers to help find it. Just an idea of course
dense plover
It’s used one time - why even make the asset?
unborn glacier
Plus it'd feel super lazy to have patch content be us dealing with Maw invasions...
Reworked Northrend.
dense plover
The broker assets for the dungeon are the biggest thing for me
A bunch of them only show up once
ESPECIALLY the barge
You can’t even use the barge outside of the one time in the quest
Why even make it work that way if it wasn’t going to be used again?
pulsar minnow
agreed. they put so much work into Tazavesh. It can't just be used only there. heck, Operation: Mechagon used a TON of shared Mechagon assets
dense plover
Why change it from an object to a weird mount thing
deep pawn
That could be the quest content of the patch outside the Jailer raid. I'd be happy if we get two more patches since that means more content before paying for another expansion, but maybe I just don't trust Blizzard enough to do it. 😄
dense plover
We will know more tomorrow
Hopefully it doesn’t take TOO long for people to beat the raid
I want that cutscene
Or potentially cutscenes
Hopefully none of the mechanics are broken so people can progress
deep pawn
Normal if nothing else will be beaten
I'll probably pug normal cause wooo domination sockets are stupidly op
dense plover
For sure
deep pawn
My prayer for 9.1.5 is adding sockets to m+ and PvP gear since they won't be disabled outside of the raid
primal mirage
so what are peoples predictions for the end of the raid?
bitter plaza
silent urchin
Cinematic will be about 3 minutes of the covenant leaders and jaina being the ones to actually defeat sylvanas, someone will vaguely mention the split soul thing, and then one of them will take both fragments of the soul away and leave it very ambiguous as to whether sylvanas was actually evil
austere gazelle
Cinematic will be about 3 minutes of the covenant leaders and jaina being the on...
And the jailer will jsut disappear through a portal saying " It is over now. "
strange falcon
Hopefully it doesn’t take TOO long for people to beat the raid
pug it yourself e.e
strange falcon
Why even make it work that way if it wasn’t going to be used again?
they put all the work into that Krexus CGI model,to use it once in the youtube trailer and NEVER again
strange falcon
I'll probably pug normal cause wooo domination sockets are stupidly op
i checked the guides for the raid, Painsmith Raznal is DEFINITELY the big pugkiller of the raid
tropic trail
I miss Krexus
primal mirage
Krexus was cool
terse patrol
Tbh the only two CGI characters from Shadowlands that I see them reusing would be the Winter Queen or Denathrius
primal mirage
Not the Jailer?
pulsar minnow
Not the Jailer?
The Jailer is getting a new look after the raid in all likelihood. That old model probably will be either completely forgotten or maybe edited
terse patrol
Does the Jailer even have a CGI model?
unborn glacier
Does the Jailer even have a CGI model?
Yes
We saw his model on magazine cover and in the YouTube slands trailer
pulsar minnow
Does the Jailer even have a CGI model?
The only eternals that aren't modeled are the Archon and Primus
oh- and the arbiter
unborn glacier
The Jailer is getting a new look after the raid in all likelihood. That old mode...
Guaranteed. There is a new model for him encrypted for 9.1 that has yet to be datamined.
pulsar minnow
Guaranteed. There is a new model for him encrypted for 9.1 that has yet to be da...
Yeah. We know for certain that there were a ton of different pieces of concept art that almost made the cut according to the artist who designed the Jailer. We might get the Ice King look. We might get something entirely new
unborn glacier
I think his current model is his deprecated form.
His ice king like Model will be the new model or something like it
pulsar minnow
im with baifeng on this one. They're gonna go all out
unborn glacier
They need to make him unique
unborn glacier
Reveal he used to be the true ruler of the Shadowlands
And all the Eternals including him are lying
pulsar minnow
The Eternals are definitely holding back on the details of Zovaal's imprisonment
Man I'm just so excited for that cinematic
and not because of Sylvanas I could care less about her. I'm the single person in the entire galaxy that actually is excited by Zovaal
terse patrol
I really hope they don’t try to make Zovaal pitiable or actually the good guy.
Because sending the souls of the multiverse to hell and forcing them into your evil army is kinda uh
Yeah
primal mirage
how long till US servers are back from maintenance?
or are they? I'm EU, just wondering how long it'll be before the raid is clear 🤣
terse patrol
My guess is, Zovaal is a giant asshole and tosses Sylvanas aside once he no longer needs her.
pulsar minnow
how long till US servers are back from maintenance?
4 hour maitenance
could end earlier or later
terse patrol
Alt timeline: Sylvanas brings her girlfriend Tyrande to meet her adoptive dad Zovaal, who isn’t a giant asshole.
@unborn glacier
Superior timeline.
pulsar minnow
My guess is, Zovaal is a giant asshole and tosses Sylvanas aside once he no long...
I want the Jailer to have a "Doom" moment where he just kicks ass
strange falcon
The only eternals that aren't modeled are the Archon and Primus
pretty sure there is an Archon CGI model
it was in the artbook
pulsar minnow
pretty sure there is an Archon CGI model
Yeah I remember pointing that out. We just haven't seen it. Perhaps the Sylvanas cinematic will be done in CGI?
pulsar minnow
Sylvanas-kun... must give cinematic
terse patrol
I was hoping the Primus was going to look like a MediEvil character.
Like his statue
strange falcon
nah he looks like the netflix adaptation of his statue
terse patrol
Big sad.
MediEvil was great.
Would’a been a fun direction for the Primus.
mfw no Sir Daniel Fortesque references in WoW.
slender quest
4h now until the raid is open, right ?
silent urchin
I think about 45minutes til US reset
oh, yeah, maintenance goes well past the regular reset, could be close on 4 hours if it takes the full amount of time
terse patrol
Reminder that if it wasn’t for Thrall abandoning the Horde in Cataclysm, none of this would have happened.
azure estuary
Deathwing might have won
dense plover
^^^^technically this
Like, would the horde have gone to shit? No. Would deathwing have destroyed the world? It’s much more likely
terse patrol
He shouldn’t have stepped down and instead made Saurfang regent
Why put a young warmonger in charge when Saurfang was far more capable
upper pasture
look. im still mad about my boy Vol'jin
like he had to die for that tiny quest chain in NF campaign. i just hope the writers don't forget about him
terse patrol
“Your warchief has to go save the planet, the legendary Saurfang will guide you in the conflicts with the Twilight’s Hammer and Alliance.”
Nobody would have been against that.
The Horde would have gotten the credit for saving the world.
Instead we just get sad orc Jesus who dooms the Horde.
primal mirage
What is Vol'jin now?
terse patrol
He’s a Wild God now.
upper pasture
i think the real question is would Saurfang accept that?
terse patrol
A Loa to trolls.
Saurfang would because it’s his duty.
He wouldn’t want to.
But that’s why he’s best for it.
upper pasture
he might lead under the command of someone else but being the leader and having the make the decisions.
terse patrol
At any case
upper pasture
its different but i agree i think he would do it but not want to because honor
terse patrol
At that time, the Horde had far better choices for leadership.
But they chose Garrosh because they wanted an edgy story.
primal mirage
I get why Thrall picked Garrosh, but man, was it a bad call.
upper pasture
if Thrall told him look lead in my absence im still warchief ill be back it would have been fine but if Thrall was like you're the new warchief he would have been less fine with it
terse patrol
^
There’s nothing saying a warchief can’t delegate.
Everyone knows Thrall is the best shaman.
upper pasture
/warrior
terse patrol
They’r have been fine with him delegating his duties to fight to save the world.
upper pasture
/whatever the plot needs him to be
hazy kettle
@upper pasture Garrosh has been challenging his lead since the start of Wrath.
There has been an event where he literally tried fighting him for leadership, which was cut short by the scourge slapping Orgrimmar.
So, considering that, I doubt Garrosh would've just been like "Oh, yeah, sure, no, I tots understand. I'll do what you say, to a T!"
tropic trail
If Cairne hadn't been poisoned he woulda whooped Garrosh across the floor during mok'gora
upper pasture
I meant Saurfang not Garrosh
Garrosh was a tool and never should have been warchief
I believe if Saurfang wanted to be warchief he could have easily became it but he simply didn’t want that responsibility
unborn glacier
If Cairne hadn't been poisoned he woulda whooped Garrosh across the floor during...
Cairne would have spared him too
tropic trail
You're not wrong
royal coral
Cinematic up once Sylvanas is defeated on retail ?
hazy kettle
Should be, yeah.
azure estuary
Unless it’s datamined first
royal coral
Okay, 1h after servers are up then 😂
dense plover
Unless it’s datamined first
cant be - the key wont be sent until you beat the boss
azure estuary
Weak
upper pasture
i give it 4 hours
tropic trail
I mean, 2-1 odds that there will be a wowhead article posted with it
So just stay tuned for the next episode of WoWball Z
unborn glacier
XD
slender quest
do the wowhead guys who gonna rush for the cinematic stream? Any links?
upper pasture
ugh
vocal flint
cant wait to curb stomp sylvanas. its gona be great
unborn glacier
cant wait to curb stomp sylvanas. its gona be great
vocal flint
what..
vocal flint
dense sonnet
have you guys seen the hunters gear for it?
pulsar minnow
<:sadge:757642139684438226>
EU Release :O
slender quest
servers up
young latch
I thought the battle for ardenwealde was kinda dumb because the winter queen just put her seal under her pillow and anduin walked up and got it
Reminds me of the tide stone
pulsar minnow
I thought the battle for ardenwealde was kinda dumb because the winter queen jus...
agreed. it felt like blizz just needed a way so that Anduin would get the Sigil and they chose the path of maximum stupidity on the part of the Winter Queen
young latch
agreed. it felt like blizz just needed a way so that Anduin would get the Sigil ...
“Don’t worry it’s in the safest place possible— not on me!”
Anduin: walks up, takes it, leaves
XD
unborn glacier
How the fuck do I get over here? I thought it'd unlock at 44 but to hit 44 I have to go their for the weekly :V Im so confused. On PTR there was a maldraxxi mount that would take you over the gap but theres not one now
tropic trail
Jump off the cliff near it
unborn glacier
I die
tropic trail
I'm serious
tropic trail
It's how I get there usually
unborn glacier
ivory meadow
There's a vault transport near alexandros
tropic trail
Now release
unborn glacier
I did.
ivory meadow
At base.
unborn glacier
Now release
tropic trail
Odd. They must've fixed it
ivory meadow
Go back to Retreat
unborn glacier
Go back to Retreat
Theres no portal over there.
silent urchin
There's still a mount, it's near mograine in the south west part of the retreat
ivory meadow
It's not a portal
tulip sun
apparently theres supposed to be a garrosh cutscene
Like a rendered one?! O.O
Or ingame
ivory meadow
In-game I would think.
dense plover
probably ingame
dense plover
3 types - ingame, rendered, cgi
ivory meadow
Let's just hope the others aren't broke.
tulip sun
Ah. Well either way
Its nice to see him i suppose
Is anyone close to beating sylvanas? On break at work
silent urchin
Squishei is on KT normal, so 8/10
limit are on KT heroic, also 8/10
Those are the furthest I've seen so far
KT seems like it shouldn't be much of a block, squishei's group was real close to one shotting him
tulip sun
Agh ok. Probably after my break
silent urchin
Who knows how sylvanas will go
So far the only problematic boss was fatescribe, which mostly seemed to be a somewhat clunky mechanic that wasn't as responsive as it should have been, that lead to raid one shots
Squishei just got KT, so onto sylvanas
tulip sun
Eeeee
tulip sun
One shot her and let's get it donnneee
silent urchin
well, P1 she seems pretty tame. Lots of mechanics but none of them deadly on normal
loads of hp and adds and lack of boss dps time though
Like 7 minutes in to the fight and they're just done with P1
Limit also now at 9/10
ivory meadow
Well, they triggered the cutscene, but it got broke.
Squishei did.
It stopped halfway through
uncut vault
silent urchin
but they're only just entering P3?
mossy meteor
MY HEART WAS BEATING ALL THE TIME
dense plover
do we have to wait for 9.2 here?
mossy meteor
his new model looks terrible imo
dense plover
also his new model is sick af
mossy meteor
i was expecting something more grand
dense plover
makes me think that maybe he made the drust
and that wherever he used to be from is the same place the drust were from
both were banished
mossy meteor
damn
silent urchin
Presumably there will be a quest once someone actually beats the raid
which explains a little more
obtuse vine
Is Sylvanas dead or what then
dense plover
no
she is not dead
she got her full soul back
it sorta lends itself to her at least getting somewhat of a redemption arc
but i dont think she will be going full good guy
silent urchin
Yeah, and now she has the fate of having to think back on all her decisions and cringe
dense plover
^
this
guilt
she hasnt had it
now she does
she probably doesnt see herself as worth redemption
my guess is she will sacrifice herself to save anduin
also the jailer says the key is "once again" his
silent urchin
If only we had a novel about the interactions between sylvanas and anduin in the jail to add context 🤔
dense plover
this implies that yes, the arbiter was made from the jailer's heart
dense plover
we all did tbf
uncut lintel
SHES GONNA GET REDEEMED
mossy meteor
so we dont kill her
uncut lintel
AAA
dense plover
no
uncut lintel
im screaming
pulsar minnow
did she die
mossy meteor
but the jailer restores her soul
dense plover
she gets her soul back
uncut lintel
im screaming
mossy meteor
hmm
uncut lintel
SHES NOT DEAD
mossy meteor
interesting
unborn glacier
Im happy
uncut lintel
hloy shit
dense plover
he "rewarded" her
dense plover
tbf - he has everything he needs
unborn glacier
LOVE LIVE THE BANSHEE QUEEN!!!!!!
mossy meteor
i knew she was gonna betray him
uncut lintel
HOLY SHIT
slender quest
this cinematic was so nice ❤️
uncut lintel
I am screaming
slender quest
Sylvy redemtion + her original soul is back
dense plover
remember, her final line in the OG cinematic is "And I will set us all free"
slender quest
let's gooooooooo
dense plover
and the jailer is talking about how everyone will serve
uncut lintel
Omg yuore right peach
dense plover
i enjoyed that
unborn glacier
Now I feel much better fighting her in the Raid
slender quest
btw what do you loot?
dense plover
that form is what he USED to look like
dense plover
chest or glowy orb probably
distant saddle
sylvanas loyalists rejoice ❤️
distant saddle
and they mad
silent urchin
No ones actually killed her yet, so dunno what gets looted
dense plover
so the jailer used to look like that, the arbiter didnt used to have that orb if she even existed before it, and sylvanas got her soul back. Also, this means that jailer 2.0 and anduin are off who knows where - probably at the jailers home realm
the primus talks about how the maw was a banishment from his home as punishment for what he tried to do
so this is all starting to come together
silent urchin
Yeah, could be garrosh style "unconscious" again. Probably a chest though, so people don't turn her into fillets
mossy meteor
this looks really badass when i look at it more
dense plover
exactly
mossy meteor
but also a bit bland
dense plover
it looks sorta like LK armor is the intention
uncut lintel
Good hide his dumb uglyy bald head
dense plover
it should remind you of arthas
dense plover
i hope im right about the drust stuff tbh
i hope they share a home realm with the jailer
and thats where we are going next
uncut lintel
Next xpac?
dense plover
broker realm wouldnt make too much sense b/c the brokers only started their exodus en masse recently
uncut lintel
Unless blizz adds another island or world i dunno
silent urchin
So
dense plover
if its his home realm, it wont be the maw
silent urchin
odds on sylvanas being a quest giver in 9.2?
dense plover
so thats nice
1200% vaephera
sylvanas knows the jailer's plans
tho also she probably has 2 different minds in her brain right now essentially
i dont think any living soul has had their soul split and rejoined without any side effects
mossy meteor
silent urchin
Well, quite possibly the other part of the soul has memories of the past.. 30 odd years too?
tropic trail
No ones talking about how the bad guy actually won for a change
pulsar minnow
I called it too :D
dense plover
we lost
we were massively outclassed
and now the bad guy got away and is stronger than before
which is actually worse than the wrathgate
tropic trail
I'm glad to see it. Wonder how the story goes now
dark furnace
wait, is Zovaals helmet the same one as the Seat of the Primus statue?
dense plover
idk why he left bolvar, jaina, or thrall
pulsar minnow
It looks like the Helm of Domination but infinitely more badass
dense plover
he couldve dominated all of us
and he chose not to
he must still need us for whatever is coming
tropic trail
How do you even beat this guy
mossy meteor
maybe we never do
tropic trail
Better not rely on some even larger cosmic power oneing him up
mossy meteor
i'm thinking it's probably some first ones power
dense plover
i imagine whenever we fight him, he will kill us, anduin will rez us, and then we beat him or we lose
mossy meteor
lmao that's so predictable
slender quest
we just won
dense plover
just like how we die in the lich king fight
tropic trail
Like we awaken the magic God of light who wounds him to 10% for us to finish off
slender quest
the loyalist won ❤️
dense plover
we just won
sylvanas got her soul back
mossy meteor
squishei is at 57%
dense plover
thats not the loyalists
slender quest
hail Sylvanas the Ranger general with the blue eyes ❤️
mossy meteor
i'm thinking the fight ends at 50%
pulsar minnow
I can see the Titans coming back to help us
slender quest
sylvanas got her soul back
I know that's why I'm saying we won ^^
dense plover
I can see the Titans coming back to help us
no chance
mossy meteor
they have 2 platforms left
silent urchin
50% fight end seems likely
dense plover
50% fight end seems likely
im betting 30%
silent urchin
looking good for them, I think
silent urchin
that's low, this phase starts at 75%
dense plover
i want to see what happens after
dense plover
we havent seen what happens after
dense plover
there it is
50%
wonder what happens on mythic
and now we get to see what happens after
mossy meteor
i like how sylvanas looks at anduin and he's just unphased
silent urchin
mythic is just heroic but it ends at 0%
mossy meteor
he seems a little disappointed
(jailer)
also, bets on arthas being in anduin's sword
now that we know the prismal object is a soul
or well, container for one
tropic trail
Might sound silly, but what if Sylvanus is dead for realsies.
Gets "redeemed" for a few seconds, gives one benevolent warning and dies
silent urchin
Isn't that confirmed already? You see the souls inside frostmourne in a quest
dense plover
\oh no squishei didnt have the kill sylvanas quest
tropic trail
No point in such a dramatic end to that cinematic if she just faints and is alive again
distant saddle
so umm did he have her soul all this time
dense plover
you have to get renown 44/45 to get the quest to kill her
dense plover
No point in such a dramatic end to that cinematic if she just faints and is aliv...
she is still undead
mossy meteor
wait really
mossy meteor
and the skyline isn't changed either
dense plover
might rely on quest completion
unborn glacier
No one does. It requires 45 renown
silent urchin
I kinda suspect not, given they went straight there and the weekly is a pain to grind out
tropic trail
So I just spoiled myself with the Sanctum of Damnation cinematic and HOLY FUCK Blizzard
Redemption attempt failed
"i WiLl NeVeR sErVe"
Also Sylvanas has blue eyes now
tropic trail
Bids on Kyrian Sylvanas
storm marsh
she's back
then again it makes no sense. This soul should have been part of some covenant.
tropic trail
"Oh no... Was I the bad guy all along?!"
Also also
Doesn't the Jailer's new design look kind of drust?
tropic trail
Look at his chest and tell me you don't see drust design
foggy abyss
it was cool looked amazing
slender quest
Cinematic was awesome ❤️
storm marsh
I loved the cinematic
storm marsh
told us much more than 8.2 and 8.3 cinematics
foggy abyss
if atleast we had more content
ivory meadow
told us much more than 8.2 and 8.3 cinematics
I was like, "wait, 9.2? .3?"
foggy abyss
See you in 8 month for the next cinematics folks
storm marsh
yeah 😛
tropic trail
Tbh if I lived in Azeroth, I'd just walk up to the Jailer and ask "So... Why do you want to destroy reality? I'm not trying to stop you, I just need some context"
foggy abyss
"My writing is too poor to answer that mortal"
tropic trail
Nah
I bet he'd go "Because that is the only action one could take that would have any purpose"
foggy abyss
*Makes no sense
We already know his goal
Free existence from the chains of mortality
Cinematic looked amazing art team carrying it once again
a shame the team managing the story has no clue what to do
tropic trail
It still makes no sense. Do what in undeath?
foggy abyss
No clue
tropic trail
Be a foot soldier for a guy who wants everything destroyed?
foggy abyss
Yes