#beta-ptr-spoilers

1 messages · Page 596 of 1

upper edge
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Tyrande was kind of kicking her ass lmfao

dense plover
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thats the only thing i can think of

upper edge
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And wtf happened to Nathanos

dense plover
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that elune still needs tyrande

dense plover
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happened in prepatch

pulsar minnow
dense plover
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the surprising part is that she didnt know

upper edge
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Isn’t he supposed to be there?

dense plover
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in the maw? yes

pulsar minnow
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thats the point

dense plover
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thats the point

pulsar minnow
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jinx

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lol

slender quest
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The Jailer is hiding himn from Sylvanas

dense plover
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yes

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that was the biggest twist in that cinematic

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either he is hiding him

upper edge
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I swear to God this is leading to Sylvanas split soul thing lol

dense plover
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or he is using him

dense plover
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this is so the jailer can use nathanos as leverage

upper edge
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Everyone does

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Lol

slender quest
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This hints/foreshadows a lot Sylvanas turning on the Jailer

dense plover
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when sylvanas starts to fight back

dense plover
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he is going to use nathanos to prevent her from doublecrossing him

slender quest
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probably during the end of the raid

upper edge
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Yea that’s what I mean

dense plover
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but its not off the table

pulsar minnow
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Zovaal is definitely ditching Sylvanas eventually. He'll pull the "Every soul has its purpose, and you have fulfilled yours, Sylvanas Windrunner" and he'll leave.

upper edge
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How come tyrande lost her power

dense plover
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no - i think its the opposite

upper edge
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She was choking Sylvanas and then she lost it

dense plover
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"you are not done serving me - dont you want to save your BF?"

dense plover
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it isnt clear why

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probably because otherwise tyrande had to die

slender quest
dense plover
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as she said "my life for hers"

slender quest
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Well Sylvanas said Elune made a bargain

upper edge
slender quest
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so I guess it has something to do with this

upper edge
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Oh

dense plover
upper edge
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Yea my bad I just saw it

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Lol

dense plover
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because tyrande would lose her life if she went through with it

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which probably means elune still needs tyrande

upper edge
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Honestly that was the best fight I’ve seen so far

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Like a dragonball fight lmfao

upper edge
pulsar minnow
upper edge
tidal magnet
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Sylvannis’ plot armour is just too much

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Not even the night warrior can kill her

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It’s too late for her being ditched to be a good narrative

pulsar minnow
# tidal magnet Not even the night warrior can kill her

Sylvanas does have the Jailer backing her. Elune is about equivalent in power level to a Titan since she's of the Life Pantheon. The Jailer is like Titan++ Heck Tyrande was about to win until Elune took away her powers away

mossy meteor
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👀

distant saddle
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😮

storm marsh
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probably 2 more encrypted cinematics? the raid and campaign one.

unborn glacier
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This Ardenweald cutscene made me love Sylvanas so much more

mossy meteor
unborn glacier
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The pain on her face when she learned Nathanos was killed

crimson jasper
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ohhh, at work, can't wait to see it

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ofc people still complain "oh she do genocide now you try give her motivations"

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like, yea its called telling a story and writing a character?

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anyways l guess cutscene was good yes?

unborn glacier
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I loved the Battle for Ardenweald one havent seen the others yet

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Loving Sylvanas more and more. God I love her voice actresses work

crimson jasper
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that's good to hear, ofc to each their own opinion but hating on everything just because whatever is getting annoying

foggy abyss
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Seeing her pained at the loss of Nathanos was actually quite troubling and well done

crimson jasper
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l look forward seeing it

unborn glacier
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It broke my heart seeing her reaction to it

foggy abyss
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Actually pushed the hype to play the update if anything

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Which is a lot I pretty much didn't care about the update up to that cinematic

crimson jasper
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Man l gotta sneak in watching it

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ok watched it, yea that was cool, really liked it

upper edge
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Im actually surprised Sylvanas didn’t go all rage mode when she found out Nathanos was killed

crimson jasper
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probably got some questions for her buddy boy mr jailer

mossy meteor
dense plover
signal bone
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why would you not be surprised, she never gave a shit about him.

unborn glacier
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Yes she did

tulip sun
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She always had a soft spot for him id say

crimson jasper
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yea definitely

strange hedge
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why did Auduin become a pawn for the jailor? The last cutscene from 9.05 shows him standing his ground........

uncut vault
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Sylvanas had to make a choice, she wanted Anduin to make it and he refused

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so she had to force it on him

strange hedge
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damn bitch....so auduin didnt turn bad...its forced on him

pulsar minnow
dense plover
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^

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It’s the same runes as the helm

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We will need to remove the armor to free anduin

upper edge
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Aight so anyone else notice the pain in Sylvanas’ face when she found out Nathanos went to the maw and the jailer didn’t tell her lol this just increased the chances of Sylvanas betrayal even more

dense plover
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yes

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her BF died

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and the jailer - the one guy who would know - didnt tell her

tropic trail
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"This is my girlfriend Sylvanas, and this is Sylvanas' boyfriend, the Jailer"

dense plover
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which means he has nathanos somewhere

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and is probably torturing him

tropic trail
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Probably went "Each soul has a purpose" on Nathanos

tulip sun
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Sylvanas certainly is gonna do something against the Jailer at this point

dense plover
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also we might finally get to see what nathanos looked like when alive

tulip sun
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They've been sowing doubt

tropic trail
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Definitely leaning towards the split soul theory

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But who knows

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I'm just along for the boat ride \o/

uncut vault
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Well, souls dont really look like how they did prior to undeath anymore, we see undead souls in Bastion, Mograine looks undead

tropic trail
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I think Nathanos will be a raid boss next patch, tbh

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Jailer goes "Fine, have your boyfriend"

dense plover
upper edge
tropic trail
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"Go on. Kill me. You'll send me right to my lady"

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That seemed like foreshadowing

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Too bad the Jailer's a prick

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Also, did Tyrande really try to choke Sylvanas to death?

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Undead don't breathe

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They even have a racial about not being able to drown

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Tyrande, ya bimbo, Elune didn't leave you. Logic did

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I mean, squeeze a neck hard enough and you can still snap it. But, frankly, Tyrande was probably just running and pure rage-ohol at that point

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Yup

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I dig the thought that Elune didn't give her the power she asked for because Elune wants Tyrande alive, though

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Still, probably could have used those glaives

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But she had to turn them into smoke bombs

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"Elune, please don't deny me the kill, I like Dragon Ball Z"

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Tyrande was legit Super Saiyan in that fight

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Even friggin flied and blasted energy beams

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Alternate title to the fight:

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Angry elf woman gently strokes tired undead elf woman when interrupted by moon goddess and dragon lady

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Elunetile Dysfunction?

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Hey I mean

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At least it wasn't the Azerectile Dysfunction of BfA

ancient jasper
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I'd say she was more looking to just completely crush her throat.

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And/or neck.

tropic trail
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I think decapitation would work on Sylvanas. It worked on Nathanos

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Not that that matters much since she's, well, yknow, a banshee

ancient jasper
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Indeed

tropic trail
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Otherwise, GUN

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Just shoot Sylvanas in the head like Godfrey did

ancient jasper
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Yeah a gunshot to the back of the skull definitely works.

tropic trail
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Sylvanas is not her body. She's the banshee piloting her body

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Plus now Maw magic fuckery

ancient jasper
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Uh.. Explain how Godfrey managed to kill her then. If she's the Banshee.

tropic trail
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High-velocity plot bullets

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Sylvanas was unaware while checking her patreon

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Getting all that money for her product, the Banshee Bathwater

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So Godfrey got a clear shot of her bald spot

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Being undead comes with a loss of hair

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But Sylvanas doesn't want people to know, so she wears a hood

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"Jailer... Is it... Over?"
"At long last. No hair lasts forever, Windrunner"
"I see... Only baldness... Before... Me"

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Also, why the fruit did Anduin's hair get shorter?

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He had a ponytail, but now his hair is just loose

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It would not be that short

dense plover
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its called a haircut

tropic trail
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His hair just magically disappears and reappears when he changes armours

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Magic haircut

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Magic haircut and extentions? XD

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Yes khadgarface

dense plover
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got my day 1 goal!

unknown.png
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might not be spoilers idk

austere gazelle
# slender quest Well Sylvanas said Elune made a bargain

She was talking about the bargain she made with Tyrande.
Anyway I think the Purpose is restraining Elune.
Considering the attendant in Korthia knew we would come, and our coming was paved by Sylvanas' action, Sylvanas had to live and burn Teldrassil up to this point.
Which means that Elune did nothing because the Purpose was meant to let this happen

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And Sylvanas had to live up to this point so she won't let Tyrande kills her. If that's true, then I understand why Elune is sad and bitters. She can't protect all Life because of the shit Purpose, and fall into sadness and wrath, tears and night warriors ensues

unborn glacier
tropic trail
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Hehe

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Yea

slender quest
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China Blizzard is selling officially (I guess) an WoW Sylvanas keybord. Even made an AD where the Chinese VA of Sylvanas is delivering it

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check it out if you interested in chinese ad 😂

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I need this. I hope they do it for NA too

storm marsh
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seems like they added/hotfixed the 4th recolor last second. wasnt in the previous PTR build and wasnt there for a while

aawdadwawdadad.png
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says "Korthia" as a source

drowsy leaf
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maybe thats the one from the DA quartermaster

drowsy leaf
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dont know chinese so i have no clue whats going on

slender quest
mossy meteor
drowsy leaf
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i got no clue then

harsh wedge
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Do I need to do both Torghast at 4 gems to unlock the 10th layer next week or just one is enough ?

strange falcon
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i dont have proven info but i think just one

unborn glacier
mossy meteor
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oh i read that wrong

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err

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i think you have to do just one?

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not sure

dense plover
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It’s just one

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Layer unlocks are system wide

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Also I assume the korthia transmog is probably drops from rates and/or treasures

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Pets and toys from korthia have that same drop list type

mossy meteor
#

peach do you think it's odd that the archivist rep isn't boosted by the human racial

dense plover
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No

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Because it isn’t actually rep

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It’s currency

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The rep is literally double the currency

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It would be busted if it was boosted by the racial

mossy meteor
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right

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so no DMF buff either

unborn glacier
strange falcon
unborn glacier
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Lmfao

vapid peak
tropic trail
vapid peak
hazy kettle
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That is fucking hilarious! xD @vapid peak

vapid peak
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Loads of memes are coming out now

vocal flint
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so raids open next week and im back to herding cats

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( runs a casual guild that likes to normal and heroic )

anyways what do yall think is the minimun dps required to get through the new raid

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as a bare minimum

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?

unborn glacier
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6k

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Bare minimum

vocal flint
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k

ancient jasper
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6k seems a tad overkill considering you could get by with 4k on Heroic Sire Denathrius

unborn glacier
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Nope, not overkill

dense plover
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It definitely is for normal

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Actually

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Strike that

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It legit might be

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The Ilvl jump is large enough

young latch
sharp torrent
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Has Sylvanas been killed yet? Do we know what happens?

tropic trail
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... really?

mossy meteor
vapid peak
sharp torrent
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oh wait, okay so the tyrande vs sylvanas cinematic isnt post-raid?

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okay few at least

tropic trail
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It's part of the first quest chain in the patch

sharp torrent
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Oh okay, havent touched the patch yet, because uh... I'm interested in how things will go lore wise but I'm not TOO interested in playing WoW as we speak

tropic trail
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Right

tropic trail
ancient jasper
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Does the Torghast Knowledge thing increase per week? I'm really hoping so

dense plover
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yes

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we dont know by how much

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we will see next week

tropic trail
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So...

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"Choke me mommy" Tyrande on Sylvanas memes, when?

primal dirge
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i think the cap increases by 300 once layer 12 is out

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whatever 2 flawless layers gives maybe? 180 for 2 flawless 9s, 300 for 2 flawless 12s

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not sure what 10 and 11 give

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220 then 260 then 300 is my guess for cap increases

vapid peak
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Also killing Arcane users, War of the Satyr technically, banishing own kind(Worgen), discriminatory to Horde/Alliance in W3 for some.

tropic trail
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But wait, there's more

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Isn't Elune's mama moon magic also arcane?

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She's being a hypocrite

ancient jasper
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I seem to remember the Arcane thing being linked to something about the Burning Legion.

tropic trail
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Luckily, Illidan secured a few vials from the well to make a new one in Hyjal

terse patrol
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The night elf worgen were irredeemable.

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They’d given in completely to the beast.

strange falcon
vapid peak
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"We're tryna break the system. I'm smiling cause I'm liberating these poor souls. It's a good thing"

Anduin and the Player Character: ...What the fuck are you on about?

The Jailer: Eats Popcorn Go on! smile Plays with Nathanos' soul No, really. Go on ahead. It'll all be fine! Totally not fuckin wit ya or anything.

Denathrius and the Dreadlords: Can we get our paychecks now? We got the fucker and he wants his due.

Zovaal: Oh yeah, sure. Now gtfo and wait for me to claim the Sepulcher.

Denathrius: Sweet! Aight boys, pack it up, we're outta here till next patch!

Sylvanas: ...

pulsar minnow
#

Maybe its a bit too early to say this again, but do any of you guys think that this new store mount could potentially be linked to the next expansion? After all, we got the Vulpine Familiar in 8.1 and then discovered they would be a common occurrence in SL

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And this guy is giving me some Elune vibes

1027770.png
unborn glacier
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Vulpine Familiar and the Sylverian dreamer are both from the sHADOWLANDS

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Ardenweald to be specific

pulsar minnow
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...I know. That’s what I mean. Heck it even says their “origin is a mystery”

strange falcon
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it could be a hint,sure

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in bfa we also got elysian dreamer,quoting ardenweald

pulsar minnow
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I really think that mount fits like perfectly in here

1920.png
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And the armor its got definitely reminds me of Tyrande's new outfit

dense plover
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It’s more likely to be patch content still right now

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When did they add the sylverian dreamer?

pulsar minnow
dense plover
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Yeah - that’s usually when work on the next expac is far enough along

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We are still too early

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It’s more likely this model will be reused in 9.2 or 9.3, especially with the tops of the wings being a darker color similar to the forsworn

slender quest
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If there is a 9.3

tropic trail
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Here comes the doom and gloom lol

slender quest
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I'm not it saying there will be no 9.3 - just that it is possible

pulsar minnow
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There's just too much to wrap up in SL after 9.1 that I'm personally convinced there has to be a 9.2 and 9.3

slender quest
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I never thought there will be no 8.3

cunning fossil
slender quest
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The only reason why I say that it's a possibility that there could be no 9.3 is because of COVID

pulsar minnow
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Oh hey here's the new color for the bird

austere gazelle
#

Well, Mu'sha and An'she..

strange falcon
strange falcon
pulsar minnow
uncut vault
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in the same way the vulpine and the sylverian dreamer both show up in Shadowlands

sullen dawn
#

that mount is sick for blood elves tbh

cunning fossil
sullen dawn
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always wanted a hd fire bird for my mage

cunning fossil
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It's getting way too cosmic I feel. In the moment sure it's awesome but then

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Meh

pulsar minnow
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I love how the mount looks great when it flies, and doesn't have a dumb running animation like the dragon mounts or the WoD bird mounts

terse patrol
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Red and blue.

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They look vaguely elven.

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High elves and blood elves?

sullen dawn
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i feel like 9.2 will be 'chase the jailer' across the shadowlands

pulsar minnow
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Could be Anshe and Elune

sullen dawn
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getting a few mini zones showing diferent realms, instead of one big zone

strange falcon
sullen dawn
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will scepulcher raid

terse patrol
#

There’s hints about an upcoming Quel’thalas civil war, possibly.

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This could be one of those “future content hint” mounts.

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Like they did with that dragon in BFA

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or the vulpine familiar.

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Which were Shadowlands hints.

cunning fossil
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Why would Quel'thalas have a Civil War?

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Seems like a bad idea

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Considering their 'numbers'

terse patrol
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There’s been a few little hints. Alleria says she intends to return Quel’thalas to the Alliance, one way or another.

pulsar minnow
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That probably would've been a BFA patch if anything

terse patrol
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The new book Exploring the Eastern Kingdoms says Quel’thalas has many Alliance sympathizers.

cunning fossil
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Better late than never ya know

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I'm torn on wether or not I'd like that

terse patrol
#

It’s very likely a chunk of Blood Elves look to the return of Alleria for leadership.

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Lor’themar had to resort to mind control magic in TBC to keep Quel’thalas from splintering into civil conflict.

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So ye, there’s plenty of groundwork right now for a civil war plot.

pulsar minnow
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I dont really see these mounts as Blood/High Elven in appearance

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really looks more like the Night Elves if anything

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Silver/White with swirls and branch-like patterns have become their thing as of late

terse patrol
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I mean, I guess, but the faction coloration is weird.

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They didn’t have to do that.

pulsar minnow
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also, these mounts have this as their description

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These brilliant blue birds burn brighter (and hotter) than their orange cousins, though the origin of both remains a mystery.

terse patrol
#

I mean, who knows.

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But it’s theorized the orange one is the Fireplumed Phoenix mount.

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Phoenixes are not a night elf thing.

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They’re a Quel’dorei/Sin’dorei thing.

pulsar minnow
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I'm not saying its necessarily a Night Elf thing

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I'm moreso saying this makes me think of Elune and An'she, with the recent developments involving the potential confirmation of a Life Pantheon, Ion's hints towards the origins of Anima coming from these "Lifelands," as well as the Elune/Winter Queen connection and the Folk and Fairy Tales book talking about Elune and An'she.

dense plover
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Next expac being elune stuff would make sense

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Also phoenixes are about rebirth

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That’s definitely elunes thing

crimson jasper
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l'd be down for that

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if they bring a new class it better not be elf exclusive again tho xD

sullen dawn
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tinker 😄

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fits right with elune lore

tropic trail
#

God, anything to decrease the elf population at this point

dense plover
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I don’t think we will get new classes

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I could see more talents or bringing a new talent system baseline or something

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But they’ve shown they can’t add more classes successfully

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

What does that have to do with what I said 🤔

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

I'm not??

crimson jasper
#

l assumed so, and a new class themed around it

pulsar minnow
# tropic trail I'm not??

You were talking about the elves while everyone was talking about Elune and whatnot. I apologize for not knowing that you were embarking on an entirely different conversation ig

crimson jasper
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BUT not elf exclusive

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Was kinda my thing heh

pulsar minnow
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I mean I took it as a part of the conversation honestly

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A Night Warrior class would be awesome

crimson jasper
#

yea thats fine

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and l'd be down with that

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long as Elune doesn't take away my dps mid progress

tropic trail
#

I was just promoting anything that dramatically decreases the elf population 🤔

crimson jasper
#

xd

pulsar minnow
crimson jasper
#

fair enough, but why Suramar, l think do like 50 Island expeditions is way better

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sorry like 100

unborn glacier
austere gazelle
tropic trail
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Has Zovaal displayed any light based powers?

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Nope. Nope, he didn't. Baine's presence in Shadowlands is Sylvanas' grudge

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Nothing more

uncut vault
#

the folklore book is where the theory comes from

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in the Vereesa story, he's decribed as giving off an overwhelming heat, only bound down by the domination runes on him, implying that the blue aesthetic isnt his natural state, and the story goes in depth on the hole in his chest being a wound that cant heal

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then in the Earthmother story, anshe and musha/elune fight off a darkness together, but anshe takes a wound to the chest that leaves a hole in his heart that cant heal

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the maw has a lot of fire aesthetics that arent typically associated with death in WoW

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but regardless of that, from what we know baine was brought for the same reason the other three were, to be tested for the Jailer's plan for the mourneblade/sigils

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Bolvar just has a track record of assuming stuff about Sylvanas that isn't really true, it's made a point of in We Ride Forth

austere gazelle
# tropic trail Nothing more

I beg to differ. They could have taken Thalyssra... Voss... Rokhan, or whatever. No, they choose Baine, a pacifist. Deep down there is something more to this. Particularly when we do not have heard a lot about him since after we free him, and he's completely traumatised. However, Zovaal did not display any light power because he's in the maw, where light isnt supposed to enter. So even if he did have light power, he couldn't use those. Only Anduin managed to use it in the Maw ( and the Maw walkerS of course )

tropic trail
#

Imo, Sylvanas took Baine because of a grudge. She wanted to burn down Thunder Bluff, for Freya's sake

austere gazelle
#

Also, for future references :

```` In Alchemy and Occult mythology there are two suns, A golden one that gives Life and a Dark one that takes life away. There’s Egyptian myth of Shu and Tefunt, which matches the story of An’she and Mu’sha. Shu gets bitten by chaos and goes to rule the Underworld as the God of the dead. The Dark Sun was worshipped as a literal black hole in the center of creation. In a Thousand Years of War, Locus Walker shows Alleria that this is the reality of the Universe in World of Warcraft. ```

uncut vault
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hell, in the loyalist story its implied that she intentionally went easy on the people trying to rescue baine and let them escape

tropic trail
#

That seems like arrogance

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"Eh, what if they rescue Baine? I've got this in the bag"

uncut vault
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Well no, its because she was fine with them escaping and causing more conflict, because thats what she was after in the end, not a petty grudge

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and its the same with the stuff in the Maw, Bolvar thinks she kidnapped them because of a grudge, but it isnt Sylvanas punishing baine, it's the Jailer, because like Thrall says, they were being tested

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the opening story of Shadowlands makes a point of characters assuming that Sylvanas is just going for petty things, and not really realizing that she's doing stuff on a cosmic scale

tropic trail
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Yeah, what bothers me more is that Sylvanas actually shows remorse

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Uhh, late change of mind, ya bimbo

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Well, shows remorse for Anduin, at least

uncut vault
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Eh, its more that they should have shown more of that in BfA. Sylvanas being wrapped up in cosmic stuff is fine, but she doesn't have to love every step like she did in BfA

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her role at that time was kind of just generic evil villain for Saurfang

tropic trail
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"What a handsome young king in shining armo- wait no, Jailer stop"

slender quest
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The Sylvanas in Shadowlands is more true to her original classic-wotlk self than BfA Sylvanas

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BfA Sylvanas is totally out of place and feels like a different character

tropic trail
#

BfA Sylvanas was the "Muzzle your dog, your majesty" Sylvanas
Shadowlands Sylvanas is the "Anduin could be my son... And I'm screwing him up big time"

kindred comet
austere gazelle
#

Throwing something here :

She is not the last, but the First

In before Azeroth is the first planet, the first world, the first world soul, and the First Ones and their Children roamed on it back then and created and grew the cosmos from Azeroth. It's kinda " Garden of Eden ". The first Ones died there and were buried in the Sepulcher deep beneath. We don't know what was before the Black Empire, where the Tauren and Troll came from, etc...

tropic trail
#

hello am new here just joined minutes ago

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Where is Sylvanas now? What is she planning now?

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I've been binge watching wow lore non stop

austere gazelle
#

She is flying everywhere in the shadowlands trolling people until a star collided with her and grabbed her by the throat, where she managed to escape... AGAIN

deep pawn
#

I don't think Sylvanas ever truly hated Anduin. She's just over everything and isn't in control of her own fate ever.

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Like many angry/depressed characters, she wants everyone to be as miserable as she is at some level.

#

She probably wants to pull an Azshara and betray the Jailer at the last second but we screw it up of course

#

So we're going somewhere with Phoenixes and have a mysterious 7th cosmic force.

#

I'll be so mad if it's a high elf expansion and we need to deal with Vereesa

tropic trail
#

I love her, she's the closest with similar personality to that of Cerci. my mf queenPanserRage

tropic trail
austere gazelle
#

yes, I was describing the thing as silly as possible

tropic trail
#

i understood it, funny

#

She's too strong for Tyrande, looks like it

tropic trail
tropic trail
# austere gazelle I beg to differ. They could have taken Thalyssra... Voss... Rokhan, or whatever....

Also, to you, none of those gave a bigger middle finger to Sylvanas during the Fourth War than Baine did. She might have wanted more chaos in the long run to serve her overarching goals, but compared to all of those other names you mentioned, Baine was the one who had the audacity to challenge her and take action against her. Don't you remember that he is the only one out of all of them that Sylvanas had a public trial for, imprisoned, and scheduled for execution?

#

Before Sylvanas was a banshee, she was an elf, and elves are prideful and vain as hell. If she was kidnapping members of her personal shit list on the way to the Shadowlands, Baine would be right on it--especially due to how many members of the Horde also see him as a beacon of hope

tropic trail
#

what is her status now?

#

Active

#

what's she up to after leaving Tyrande?

#

Aiding the Jailer

#

that's interesting allience, I wonder whos using who?

#

...

slender quest
tropic trail
#

I hope Sylvanas is smarter and gets the upper hand at the end

slender quest
#

It's not about pride or vengeance, it's that the Jailer needed someone to take the sigils and he choose Anduin

tropic trail
slender quest
#

Yes, for the same reason why everyone else is involved

tropic trail
#

The argument they were trying to make was, "Why take Baine instead of Voss, Thalyssra, or Rohkan"

#

I was specifying "why Baine"

slender quest
#

oh okay

tropic trail
#

Yeah. Reading helps form context

#

@slender quest who's that on your profile pic?

slender quest
pulsar minnow
#

Baine was taken because he's a key leader of the horde. do we need another reason

tropic trail
#

Apparently

#

Some people get so bootyrustled any time Baine gets screentime that they need to question it constantly

tropic trail
#

@tropic trail What does this have to do with ptr/spoiler/story content

slender quest
#

^

tropic trail
#

Quit thirsting for someone's OC pfp dude

slender quest
#

That's not the right place to discuss such things

tropic trail
#

baine wanted to be warchief?

#

No?

#

he could have been good leader though

#

Cairne did because he thought (correctly) that he'd be a better warchief than Garrosh, but Baine only wanted to be high chieftain of Thunder Bluff because his own people needed a leader to unite their spirits after the death of Cairne

pulsar minnow
tropic trail
#

Yup

#

Council is more effective at governing and leading a united Horde of different unique tribes and nations. One leader can't embody what's important for all of them--and the Horde isn't at war so it doesn't need a warchief

unborn glacier
terse patrol
#

My guess they intend (or intended) for Baine to meet Cairne again.

#

But with the issues Shadowlands is having, it might be something they had to cut.

pulsar minnow
cunning fossil
#

This is a wierd and possibly stupid thing to think about but

tropic trail
#

🍿

cunning fossil
#

Damn bro already got the popcorn out

pulsar minnow
#

🍿

#

im ready too

cunning fossil
#

Do our characters get...therapy? At all? Doctors? Because the last 3 expacs have been tragedy after tragedy.

Like imagine in a prepatch, you go to the doctor and they tell you. "Bro take a fuckin break" and you get actual dialoge choices (cuz player agency).
And so, after getting a doctor's note, you go to your faction leader and give it to them. Then they all look at each other and nod "I suppose...we've all...been through a lot. A bit of time to relax is not a bad idea." And so, to kick of the new expac in the prepatch, you set up your "summer home", help rebuild on Azeroth itself, and maybe deal with some more local threats.

Then title screen with cheerier more triumphant music that usual.

"WORLD OF WARCRAFT: THE BEACH EPISODE BACK TO AZEROTH"

#

Boom

#

Pre orders start that day

#

C'mon guys. Give me

#

Give me Discord equivalent of Karma

#

On an unrelated note, the Jailer = An'she theory seems really solid. Which is a bit, worrying because if the big bad evil guy we're fighting at the end game is suddenly ANOTHER tragic backstory,I think I'll lose my sanity.

#

I don't want anorther misunderstood antagonist. I just want an evil guy I can hate

tropic trail
#

That's too much text. That's too much text and I'm leaving

#

Excuse me, but the shakes are a defining element of my character

cunning fossil
cunning fossil
tropic trail
#

Yes

cunning fossil
#

Lmao. My characters too.

#

Either way, I want a therapist questline. I think it'd be funny

tropic trail
#

Mists questing was basically therapy khadgarface

#

Yeah

cunning fossil
#

And funny (from in-game, not because of stupid Actiblizz action) would be appreciated.

#

Ah yes

tropic trail
#

Lorewalker Cho is my granddad

cunning fossil
#

Mist questing

#

Hasn't it been like 8 years since MoP?

tropic trail
#

Questing in Pandaria is top-tier relaxation and therapy

cunning fossil
#

And probably more in game since Anduin is a big boi jos

cunning fossil
tropic trail
#

You can always zip back to Halfhill and do some recreational therapeutic farming

cunning fossil
#

And you know what. MoP was the 5 expac right?
And the next one will be the tenth

tropic trail
#

Here's a fact. Level 20 trial characters can do Pandaria dailies

#

All you're doing is working on your farm and making friends \o/

cunning fossil
#

Lmao

tropic trail
#

You can literally farm reps without buying a sub

#

I've already got August Celestials exalted on my twink xD

cunning fossil
#

Every 5 expacs = a beach episode expac

pulsar minnow
#

dont mean to interrupt but i just had a crazy idea

cunning fossil
#

So that means 10th expac will be the same right??!

tropic trail
#

Interrupt all you want, slowmode ain't enabled

cunning fossil
#

Lmao

cunning fossil
pulsar minnow
#

So the little moon above azeroth is like the Winter Queen right? And the big moon is Elune? That's Life and Death. Is An'she Light?

cunning fossil
#

Hmmm

tropic trail
#

That's a good theory

pulsar minnow
#

Like maybe that's how this all fits together with the Light stuff we've been seeing lately

tropic trail
#

And yes, An'she is the source of light tauren draw from

pulsar minnow
#

And it could explain why the light is so.... "crazy"

cunning fossil
#

That'd be quite cool

tropic trail
#

The Light only cares if you think you're morally correct

#

Arthas knew what he was doing was wrong, killing people ain't right

#

So the light abandoned him

#

This is why the Scarlet Crusade can do fucked up shit and get away with it

unborn glacier
tropic trail
#

Though, I shall quote my friend Monsoon

#

Free will is a myth
Religion is a joke
We are pawns, controlled by something greater

#

Thighs

tulip sun
#

So I think it probably will still happen

#

Same with Jaina's involvement. She has been present but I'm sure she will meet someone

#

Like Thrall met Draka

tropic trail
#

Probably her father

#

Or Arthas

#

I'm expecting Uther to search for Arthas in the Maw next patch

terse patrol
#

My hope is we get Arthas and Terenas.

tulip sun
#

Calia is also there so 🤔

tropic trail
#

Kyrian campaign: Retrieve the Fallen King

tulip sun
#

Makes me think Arthas. Or her daughter and husband even

#

Taelia? Idk

terse patrol
#

Terenas’ soul is in the jailers soul vault thing.

#

Along with others

tulip sun
#

Well

tropic trail
#

Taelia has unfinished business with Bolvar

tulip sun
#

Part of it

terse patrol
#

They better resolve the soul vault

tropic trail
#

Oh my goodness

#

Imagine the banter between Kael'thas and Arthas if he comes back

#

"So, how did you die?"
"Magister's Terrace was merely a setback. And so was The Sunwell"

terse patrol
#

“grrrrr you killed my people”
“yeah, well, you did it without being mind controlled by a death god”

tropic trail
#

"Jaina doesn't like you!"
"Hell do you know? You're a mana-addled elf"

#

I'm surprised Kael and Jaina have no interactions at all

#

I really wish they did

#

"Lady Proudmoore. Time hasn't been kind to you"
"Last time I checked, you're the one with messy eyeliner"

cunning fossil
pulsar minnow
# cunning fossil When does Thrall meet Draka?

In a future chapter of the 9.1 campaign. they visit desmotaeron and Thrall keeps trying to talk to Draka but she already knows its her son. It's kinda funny. They end the reunion by just annihilating Helya

cunning fossil
#

Oooooh

#

I can't wait

#

Necrolord pride

#

Still tho. Beach Episode

pulsar minnow
cunning fossil
#

I mean,

#

Seeing that Mawsworm can come into Azeroth. That honestly isn't a stretch

#

Also

mossy meteor
#

apparently there's a mount that drops off of the nine

cunning fossil
#

I mean even Bolvar is feeling good

20210702_135116.jpg
cunning fossil
pulsar minnow
#

he got his helmet back :D

cunning fossil
#

Yess

#

I still hate the M+ Vault Change

#

But what evs

strange falcon
#

eh,not a big change for me personally

cunning fossil
uncut vault
#

PTR update? 👀

#

probably just hotfixes

dense plover
#

yeah

#

just matching retail

hazy kettle
#

@dense plover Honest to god plea - please do ping me if you detail when the next patch comes out (presumably) or when you post smthn similar, your arguments are (honestly) great. ❤️

dense plover
#

ok........

tropic trail
#

@uncut vault I saw your tweet. That animation is awesome xD

tranquil rock
hazy kettle
#

@tranquil rock Which tome is this related to? 😮

tranquil rock
#

@hazy kettle the first post on wowhead tome that every caster is farming for atm.

hazy kettle
#

Ah, thanks!

flat escarp
#

DMF buff doesn't affect the archivist rep confirmed

austere gazelle
#

That was kinda obvious. Blizzard probably calculated how much you ciuld gain in one week if you farm like a madman and doesnt want anything else to hinder their planification I guess

strange falcon
#

the duality of the wow community

ancient jasper
#

9.1 got a lot better with last nights hotfixes

terse patrol
#

9.1 would be good if it didn’t take so long to make. That’s the issue.

#

Even T&E says that. shrug

#

It’s not a bad patch.

#

It’s just. . . very, very late.

strange falcon
#

SL as an entire expac would be seen much more favorably if it didnt have a 7month drought in the 9.0 patch

#

as T&E said too

terse patrol
#

There’s a balancing act of taking long enough to hammer out issues and taking too long to make the content not worth it.

#

I think 9.1 will unfortunately be viewed as a middling/low end patch because of how long it took, and how it’s just “here’s some more Maw”.

#

Which is a zone people are sick of.

#

Korthia is barely a “new zone.”

tropic trail
#

Mmm hot take so controversial

terse patrol
#

@strange falcon What do you think?

strange falcon
#

oh yeah,i've already heard at least 5 ppl say a variation of "7months for this??"

#

or similar criticism

terse patrol
#

How do you think it holds up to say, 7.1 or 8.1? @strange falcon

strange falcon
#

i forgot what the content was in 8.1,ù

#

but content wise it was arguably more content than 7.1

terse patrol
#

Dazar’alor siege

strange falcon
#

just that 7.1 came out after i think 70days

#

so its not contestable

terse patrol
#

7.1 also had a lot of good lore and introduced interesting things.

tropic trail
#

Subjective

terse patrol
#

Korthia pales in front of Suramar

strange falcon
#

suramar was in at launch

#

7.1 was an extension of its story

#

not the entire thing

#

suramar is not 7.1 content

#

dont make that mistake

terse patrol
#

Wasn’t the city under a bubble until later?

#

@strange falcon

#

Been a while tbh.

strange falcon
#

the city was accessible fully in the 7.0 campaign

#

7.1's content is the "insurrection" achievement

#

which is just running around gathering forces for the attack on NH

terse patrol
#

Ahhh. Well, it came out in like two months, so it was basically just an expansion of 7.0

#

Likely why I remember it fondly

#

I’ve just been extremely room temperature on Shadowlands because I feel like Wow suffers every time it tries to go cosmic.

strange falcon
#

it had a small not majestic storyline, it had a megadungeon,it had a raid

#

9.1 has all those too

terse patrol
#

WoW works best on Azeroth.

strange falcon
#

the difference is one came out in 70days

#

the other 7 months

#

you can see why one is liked the other isnt

strange falcon
terse patrol
#

It’s why I REALLY hope next expansion is focused on Lordaeron like some are speculating. By Lordaeron, I mean everything north of Thandol Span.

strange falcon
#

i dont particularly care about lore,i like doing raiding with the bois and thats kinda it

terse patrol
#

I mean, if you’re only there to raid, I’m sure the expansion is better for you. Minus the drought.

austere gazelle
#

Did the assault will change directly or will it end and the new one will be tomorroqw?

#

there is only 1h41 left in EU

tropic trail
#

Bi-weekly

strange falcon
ancient jasper
#

@austere gazelle Yeah the new one begins immediately after the old one ends.

tropic trail
#

And the mouthy tryhards are just an incredibly vocal minority

tulip sun
#

People need to realize

#

There was a global pandemic and they had to switch to working at home.

strange falcon
#

a large amount of people know only wow as a game,

just like there's people who only ever play FIFA and no other game in their life etc

tropic trail
#

Not anywhere near 90%

young latch
#

I think 9.1 is already much better than 8.1 🤷‍♂️ But I think people are going to be grouchy because of the content drought no matter what.

uncut vault
#

the drought is more the operative thing, 9.1 is bigger than either of the past .1 patches by far

#

the issue is, by now we'd more be close to getting our .2

#

and this xpac might not even have a mid-patch like that, we're likely going right to the final one

#

so 9.1 almost feels like it's this xpacs versionf of 9.2, which it definitely pales in comparison to Nazjatar (at least in content, I much prefer the story lol)

tropic trail
#

Imagine if Blizzard made 9.2 and called it for Shadowlands. Next expansion, 10.0, after two raids

uncut vault
#

I think that's a likely possibility at this point, 9.1 very much seems like it's two patches squished together, hence why it generally has much more content than a typical .1, and why its so packed full of story beats

tropic trail
#

I still think we've got a good way to go, at least. Nothing wrong with expecting two more raids

vapid peak
dense plover
#

why does no one understand bingo

#

these are all impossible

#

like - some of the rows are close

#

and then they stick one that doesnt match with the others in there

tropic trail
#

I WAS JUST THINKING THE SAME THING

#

FUCK

vapid peak
#

They forgot one

tropic trail
#

Doesn't matter, it's not how bingo works

#

You can't make any lines because multiple options in the same rows cancel each other out preventing a bingo

vapid peak
terse patrol
#

ENOUGH

tulip sun
#

Solution:

#

They all just tagteam

hazy kettle
#

@tropic trail it could've been so nice

#

But they fucked it up xD

young latch
tulip sun
#

Covid really screwed stuff up

vocal flint
#

wonder what excuse they will use in 8 months

tropic trail
#

"We couldn't make more content because Cristiano Ronaldo endorses water instead of Coca Cola"

vocal flint
#

" people dont wanna come back the our offices. its making us miss alot of 6 hour meetings "

tropic trail
#

We need more "How can we fix" mindsets instead of "It'd be cool if"

hazy kettle
#

^Basically, yes.

austere gazelle
vocal flint
#

yep thats what it feels like.

neat oyster
#

silvanas my queen, nathanos my king

vocal flint
#

your king is somewere in the maw being used as a duracell

neat oyster
vocal flint
austere gazelle
austere gazelle
hazy kettle
#

@vocal flint Savage

austere gazelle
hazy kettle
#

That would be.. the biggest ouch imaginable for her, prolly. Also, that seems like a fairly possible thing! @austere gazelle

neat oyster
#

that would be kinda pog

#

the plot would thicken

vocal flint
#

literally in a tube somewere getting sucked * and not in the good way *

neat oyster
#

but theres like no reason to that to be true

#

in a lore way

#

hes not a super powerful being

#

just a normal huner

#

hunter

vocal flint
#

lorewise he died and he was " im going to my waifu " but we just found out that sylvanas didnt know he was dead aka the jailer either let him go straight to hell or ???? either way the jailor didnt tell sylvanas he died

hazy kettle
#

I mean, Zoval gives me the feel he has a flare for the... "fuck you"

tropic trail
#

I'd lol if he was just some random soul in Torghast that some dingdong bound to a weapon for a stat boost

hazy kettle
#

So, as a huge fuck you (in case she betrays him) - that.

austere gazelle
#

The Jailer is a douche though, his plan is a lie and we know he'll give Sylv and everyone ( including Denathrius ) the middle finger in the end

hazy kettle
#

Ohhhh, that would be so nice.

#

One of the things that really has me up in arms about Lore in Shadowlands is Devos' reasoning to join Zoval.

#

As well as so many others.

neat oyster
#

i think the jailer deem nathanos not even worth of mention

#

instad of him being such a big deal

vocal flint
#

imagine being hundreds of thousands of years old and you still fall for the usual revolutionary "promise" plot

hazy kettle
#

She was fine with the Arbiter at first, started having doubts (because she saw what a Runeblade did to a soul), then joined the person that caused that

#

And that's besides the point that Zoval claims he will bring an end to this unfair charade, when his actual goal is nomming Azeroth.

#

Who falls for this?!

vocal flint
#

zovals literally get called " the betrayer " yeah let me count on him keeping a primose lol

#

*promise

hazy kettle
#

ON TOP OF THE FACT that he's literally torturing creatures. Why would I believe someone who tortures people that don't agree with him?! How likely is that creature going to be to keep their promise?!

#

He's like a sadistic Hades, from Hercules.

Actually, scratch that, he's Hades from Hercules, minus the fun part.

tropic trail
#

Because he's preying on people with doubt or self-interest and manipulating them from a position of power and dominating or obliterating the rest

vocal flint
#

thats the thing

hazy kettle
#

I get that

tropic trail
#

If you don't think people can be manipulated into doing dumb shit that doesn't serve them in the long run, I'd like to introduce you to the concept of suicide bombers and kamikaze pilots

vocal flint
#

the way sylvanas talks. nothing shows ehs being controlled

#

so like them pulling that card that somehow shes being " controlled " would come off left field hard

hazy kettle
#

It's difficult for me to even argue this, because I feel for the people with self-doubt. But, at the same time, it's hard to buy into those levels of self-doubt when they can see how he treats other beings and enforces his rule.

tropic trail
vocal flint
#

like anduin obv shows hes being controlled

#

point is nobody is this dumb lol

jade basalt
#

If you rewatch the "Sylvanas' Choice" cinematic, they were literally reenacting this debate. Anduin was like "look around you", Sylvanas like "he will save us", Anduin said "and what if he lied?" and that's when Sylvanas gets mad and tells him to shut it or she'll mindcontrol him.

hazy kettle
#

Also, also - Sylvanas can not have a choice - otherwise she chose to join sides with the one creature that's (at least in part) responsible for her being turned into a banshee.

tropic trail
neat oyster
#

theres like the theory of silvanas only having his bad soul shard, while the her good soul shard is being hold by the jailer, somewhere, and thats why silvanas is only hate and vengance

#

kinda like uther

hazy kettle
#

^That would make sense.

#

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, because going simply by my own experiences @tropic trail - u right.

tropic trail
#

A lot of people have trouble separating subjective and objective observation. I get it. It's not a unique thing so don't worry about it

#

I mean, just look at all of the people who fail to understand the concept of sacrifice and selfless service who bash on the Kyrian

hazy kettle
#

@neat oyster While I'm a fan of the theory, if you look closer, it kinda falls apart with the cinematic in which she argues with Anduin as well as the cinematic with Anduin bringing Zoval the Archon's Seal.

young latch
#

Well if anybody read the cat valente story we know that the entirety of sylvanas' soul was never in her body from when she was made a banshee

tropic trail
#

I wouldn't even say Anduin stole the seal--he's basically just Zovaal's puppet right now

hazy kettle
#

In both she's shown to doubt, which means she's quite clearly not just hate and vengence and all that negative stuff. On the other hand, Uther is and he did try genuinely to get better, before he became a.. I forgot the name of the darkened Kyrian.

#

I'd go so far as to say ... he did. But as a puppet, yes.

#

'cause, if you look at the cinematic.. <w< He really did steal it.

tropic trail
neat oyster
#

khadgarface post shadowlands anduyn PTSD

#

will be amazing

hazy kettle
#

I haven't watched the cinematic farewell yet

vocal flint
#

yall running loops around trying to logic the terrible writing in this game. but i guess thats part of the fun ~_~

hazy kettle
#

Just the name of it has me going "oh no, nononono"

tropic trail
hazy kettle
young latch
#

i think it's also kinda messed up that everybody arthas killed is still locked away partially in the maw

hazy kettle
#

That's true, but also arguing semantics.

tropic trail
vocal flint
#

dumbing it down to have fun is no excuse

tropic trail
hazy kettle
#

Fully agree with gumball here - we ain't dumbing it down, we're just trying to enjoy the possibilities out there.

young latch
tropic trail
#

I'm enjoying and observing the story purely as it's presented

hazy kettle
#

As an example, League has (at times) horrible writing. Doesn't mean you can't fantasize about it and explore what hidden meanings there could be. It's fun.

#

^

vocal flint
#

cant really ignore plot points. i get the whole " cant expect good plot in a beat em up story " but that isnt it

hazy kettle
#

That I agree with, by the by, gumball. He's really just Zoval's puppet rn.

tropic trail
#

*Zovaal

#

lol

hazy kettle
#

Tbh, a fair amount of those "plot holes" are either grey zones, where there's a bit of a lack of story, so it's up to us to interpret

#

*Zovaal, yes, sorry.

#

Or, alternatively, they can be argued away, if you don't just smack your head against it on the surface level.

#

The entirety of what I just argued about can be counter-argued to a point with knowledge of 9.1 and what happened to Sylvannas' soul.

neat oyster
dense plover
#

yeah they already said they changed the design

neat oyster
#

poggers

dense plover
#

stuff like that happens

hazy kettle
#

Carcelero

#

'scuse me, what?

tropic trail
#

There's also a crippling case of "I don't personally like it" and "This isn't what I predicted with my fellow feelycrafters" as equalling bad writing

neat oyster
#

thats just jailer in spanish

hazy kettle
#

Oh, ok.

#

True.

vocal flint
#

sounds so much more mundane in spanish hehe

hazy kettle
#

On a side note, I'm saddened by the fact that Pyromancer left.

#

On another note, the reason he gave is entirely understandable imo.

pulsar minnow
#

he left?

hazy kettle
#

(From what I was told by pals) He said he won't play WoW anymore until they take out the added systems they implemented.

#

Sorry, there, fixed it.

#

Lemme see whether I can find smthn on it.

vocal flint
#

like borrowed powers?

young latch
#

I honestly like conduits and hope they stay? :S

tropic trail
#

"I don't like change" edition

vocal flint
#

100% sure they wont. at best well get some that fit great with a class and get turned into a talent or baseline

young latch
#

I think they just need to stop reinventing the wheel. I don't mind having to do a new progression system at the end game of every expansion.

pulsar minnow
#

I think they should just reimplement glyphs

vocal flint
#

none of thos options fixes the power increase problem tho

young latch
#

I just wish they wouldn't put so many animations and cool effects into things we know are going to get removed. I am going to be hearbroken when we lose soul shape.

hazy kettle
#

^ @vocal flint That, basically. I'm scrolling through his feed rn.

vocal flint
#

cant just add 5 levels to gear per expansion. the numbers just get ridiculous. if it wasnt for the dmg squishes and level squishes we would be doing trillion auto attack hits by now

hazy kettle
vocal flint
#

borrowed powers help mitigate that

pulsar minnow
hazy kettle
#

Bollocks.

undone onyx
#

Where do old gods soul go after they die?

pulsar minnow
#

not the Shadowlands if that's what you mean

undone onyx
#

The void plane isn't part of the shadowlabds?

tropic trail
#

No

hazy kettle
#

Nay, there's 6 Planes, basically.

tropic trail
#

The Void is a separate dimension, basically

hazy kettle
#

think Actually, wait.

#

Wait, hang on - how many planes are there, actually?

vocal flint
young latch
tropic trail
vocal flint
#

thats old and outdated already

#

shouldnt use it anymore really. this came from wow devs even

hazy kettle
#

@vocal flint We had a squish because of that, yes, I agree. But I also agree with Pyromancer, because they revamp borrowed power with every addon. He doesn't mind Tier Sets (afaik), which are also borrowed power, he just doesn't care for the ones we currently have, since Legion.

tropic trail
#

I mean, it's the cosmology as understood by the Titans

vocal flint
#

sure but that was like 7 years ago

hazy kettle
#

Until we find a replacement, we gon' use that.

pulsar minnow
#

To our knowledge there's currently 7 planes

#

all 6 cosmologies and then Reality

hazy kettle
#

We have the Shadowlands, The "Life Lands" (so, the Emerald Dream) and Reality - our world.

#

*Universe

vocal flint
#

they made the shadowlands a way bigger thing that just a plane of existence

hazy kettle
#

@young latch I haven't read it myself, can't say anything about it. 😮

dense plover
#

can we not include ANYTHING from Pyro

#

he was right one time by accident

pulsar minnow
#

pyro's theories are almost never right i hate to admit

hazy kettle
#

It's kinda really disproportional, too. The Shadowlands (during Wrath) was Azeroth with a darkness filter on.

pulsar minnow
#

they're really outlandish

hazy kettle
#

I still enjoy 'em. shrug

dense plover
#

if you say anything is possible and list a thousand possibilities, eventually youll be right

pulsar minnow
#

Well as of Shadowlands we now know that the darkness filter is "limbo" and the white light above the whole thing is the soulstream into oribos

vocal flint
#

^ its how qanon works lol

young latch
hazy kettle
#

W- I'm confused, what? @vocal flint

vocal flint
#

throw random info till something sticks

undone onyx
#

I agree with brutal they are somethings that shouldn't be in the shadow land that exist in other plabes

vocal flint
#

then call it professy

#

prophesy ?

dense plover
#

prophecy

#

if you throw shit at the wall, eventually something will stick

vocal flint
#

whats the difference between prophecy and prophesy...

hazy kettle
#

@pulsar minnow Sorry, I should've explained better. My point is - Shadowlands, during Wrath, was merely a limbo. (Prolly because they didn't have a proper thing for it yet.) The Emerald Dream, in WoW, has only been shown in very small parts, while the Shadowlands get an entire expansion. That was my point with disproportional.

dense plover
#

country of origin

dense plover
pulsar minnow
#

It's a creation of the Titans, and its a vision of specifically azeroth

dense plover
#

if they arent ever allowed to expand the lore of wow, nothing new will be added

#

also it sorta is

hazy kettle
#

@pulsar minnow IIRC it ain't, it's been there before the Titans did their thing

dense plover
#

canonically the dream is a real place, but the titans changed the dream on azeroth

#

they ordered it and made it a backup of azeroth when they ordered it

#

in case things went bad

hazy kettle
#

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm the first person to argue against people that moap about Cataclysm and Pandaria because it continued the story.

vocal flint
#

i just hate how it falls apart once you see the emerald dream

#

natural beings would go to the emerald dream before. now suddenly they can die again and go to the shadowlands... is the emerald dream like a safety net for not dying for real now or what ?

dense plover
#

i like the concept of shadowlands, yeah there isnt a lot of existing lore and it breaks a lot of things we thought worked a certain way, but theyve also dipped into the canon that YEAH, we thought in lore it worked a certain way and now we are finding out it doesnt

dense plover
pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

ardenweald is where it rebirths your soul

vocal flint
#

thats what we made up after the fact

dense plover
#

thats what was explained in canon

#

it doesnt break anything existing

vocal flint
#

on the retcon you mean

dense plover
#

retcon =/= bad

undone onyx
#

Where are the Tatiana now they still restoring their powers?

vocal flint
#

yes but it kills the need for the emerald dream

young latch
#

I think the consistent issue I'm seeing with all too much writing in wow as of late is a lack of ability to deliver payoff.

dense plover
#

no it doesnt

#

the souls from ardenweald still need bodies

pulsar minnow
dense plover
pulsar minnow
#

yeah but beyond that we have no idea

dense plover
#

not sure they can do much else

#

probably takes all of their energy

young latch
#

Instead of answering important questions or delivering clear character motivations it's just giving players more and more questions without real answers.

vocal flint
#

then theres the shadowlands echosystem and some of the factions are just so freaking flawed

dense plover
dense plover
#

like - a bunch of the covenant dialogue is about how its clearly not the system they were told it was

#

the shadowlands and their covenants have a different purpose than the one the figures in charge told their followers

#

theres a LOT of dialogue about this

vocal flint
#

from the point of introduction the system is flawed. and there is no way this was held together for millenia before we even entered as mortals the picture

young latch
pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

thats just two

#

oh heres another - uther suffering because his soul WAS split by frostmourne which means that the shadowlands is broken

dense plover
undone onyx
#

Why don't they suck up his energy like sargeras did to argus

young latch
#

Nathanos dying and sylvanas not knowing is more setup. Elune being the WQ's sister is just a lore drop.

pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

oh

young latch
vocal flint
#

i dunno i guess i need a lower suspense of reasoning to enjoy this type of story. i just cant get into it.

dense plover
#

i misunderstood

young latch
#

np

dense plover
#

we got story conclusion in bfa

#

jaina's story was sorta wrapped up

#

that one had been a mess since like Cata

young latch
#

Talanji's story is left open in BFA.

dense plover
#

i mean yeah

hazy kettle
#

Oh, question - what's the common consensus on Blizzard's way of telling stories (using multiple mediums, like books)

young latch
#

Azshara's story is also left open.

dense plover
#

not once in wow have they opened a thread in the expac and then ended it in the same expac

austere gazelle
vocal flint
#

the part where the night elfs get send to mass genocide a second time to pull off a secret attack into daz alor was so dumb. could have literally sent any other faction that wasnt totaly drained instead...

hazy kettle
#

'cause.. IMO, I'd prefer if they just used Books / Comics for side stories, not for something as important as the set up of an expansion.

young latch
hazy kettle
#

Agreed.

young latch
#

But it's not good imo to put major plot in the books.

pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

its difficult to tell a story in wow without a ton of voice acting and questing

young latch
#

Because a lot of that could just go in the game.

hazy kettle
#

@dense plover Deathwing.

dense plover
#

most of these stories would not be fun in wow

hazy kettle
#

Sha of Pride.

#

Thunderking. ow o

vocal flint
dense plover
hazy kettle
#

uhh..

#

It is.

dense plover
#

he literally is involved in the story of wow from early on

hazy kettle
#

Unless you count Warcraft 2.

dense plover
#

i definitely do

pulsar minnow
hazy kettle
#

Which isn't WoW.

dense plover
#

warcraft in general

hazy kettle
#

Alright, but then you changed the parameters.

dense plover
#

its like how arthas' story isnt just wrath

#

he is literally leftover from WC3

#

illidan

young latch
#

So idk if y'all read the wailing bone story in the fairy tale book

#

but that would be awesome as a horror quest

hazy kettle
#

The scourge' story is unending, and it's been going since Classic.

dense plover
#

showed up in WC3, TBC, Legion

hazy kettle
#

(Yes, Warcraft 3 even.)

vocal flint
#

it was funny how people hated nefarians final form. even though thats how he would have looked like if all of his armor was off from the get go

dense plover
#

i mean - he needed the armor to not be melting

vocal flint
#

cuz the power given to him by the old gods pretty much fucked him over

#

yeah

#

but alot of players found the last form in the raid funny and unappealing

dense plover
#

but neltharion/deathwing was involved in the story of wow before cata - it just wasnt the focus because he left

vocal flint
#

i was like " thats the point "

hazy kettle
#

@dense plover Thunderking tho, srsly.

#

Yes, lorewise he's existed long ago as well, but he was introduced (to us) in Pandaria.

dense plover
#

patch content can often wrap up within the patch

hazy kettle
#

And slain in Pandaria.

#

C'thun. Ow O

dense plover
#

shadowlands hasnt had enough patches for that yet

hazy kettle
#

Alright, hang on, you're moving the Goal Post here, by a lot.

vocal flint
#

i mean blizzard can say that nzoth was planning all this since wrath but thats not gona stop me from calling bullshit on em lol

#

same as how people can say that deathwing was part of the game since classic cuz his 2 sons where plotting for it forever

young latch
#

setup and payoff has to be present in the game

hazy kettle
#

If patch content isn't valid for the argument, because it often wraps up in its own patch, then there literally can not be a villain dealt with in one expansion, because they'd have to been an issue for multiple patches but ONLY that expansion.

young latch
#

as opposed to like... "we knew this was going on in the background" but players never saw it

vocal flint
#

lichking was present and is a danger since classic

hazy kettle
#

@vocal flint Daughter and Son.

#

... or did he have two sons AND Onyxia? <w<

vocal flint
#

excuse me i did not see any lipstick on that dragon

young latch
#

i think another issue is that "the player characters win against the major threats" too much

vocal flint
#

jk yeah isnt "sons" usable for both genders

#

siblings?

hazy kettle
#

Siblings is, yus. ow o

young latch
#

so new threats have to be invented

hazy kettle
#

I mean, I literally don't give a damn.

#

Call her a purse, 'cause we cut her scales off, idgaf. '- '

#

Also, yeah. @young latch

#

It's becoming an issue / it has become an issue.

vocal flint
#

game just became too story focused after burning crusade

#

wrath was good tho

#

storywise obv

#

after that tho..

hazy kettle
#

I don't mind the game being story focused.

undone onyx
#

Why don't they suck up his energy like sargeras did to argus

vocal flint
#

def wouldnt want it to go back to classic

young latch
#

wrath was a mixed bag for me

hazy kettle
#

@undone onyx Same question as before? Sargeras never sucked up Argus energy.

vocal flint
#

literally walk over to thrall and hand him over heads of people he has on a check list " oh okay heres your ring/cloak/trinket

hazy kettle
#

On top of which - are you refering to the form we fight, or the planet itself?

young latch
#

i thought wrathgate/battle for undercity was not good

#

and the writing for sylvanas and jaina there was underdeveloped

hazy kettle
#

The common consensus on Danuser' seems to be that people dislike his writing.

#

I don't even mind that much. <w< There are parts I dislike, but everyone I ask always hammers on the guy like there's no tomorrow.

young latch
#

I don't know what he does and doesn't write in the actual game so i can't really hone in what is and isn't his fault.

strange falcon
young latch
hazy kettle
#

Very good point, @young latch

pulsar minnow
#

Ex: the twitter posts that took him out of context

young latch
#

He's the one who wrote edge of night right?

pulsar minnow
#

no

hazy kettle
#

One of the reasons people dislike him is because they consider him to ship Syl' with himself, as if he's a fanboy writing her (and self-inserting himself in Nathanos)

dense plover
#

dave kosak wrote edge of night

pulsar minnow
dense plover
#

yeah theres no evidence for that

#

people just jumped on that bandwagon because he didnt write the story they wanted him to

hazy kettle
#

Swear to god, every time I get to hear the argument of "Look at Nathanos having feelings for her / Sylvanas showing interest in him, THIS IS TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR UNDEAD" I slap those people with several moments in lore that show they can show those feelings. e.e

dense plover
#

yeah theres a very clear precedent that undead emotions are all over the place

hazy kettle
dense plover
#

sometimes they have none, sometimes theyre shifted in one way, sometimes theyre mostly normal

pulsar minnow
#

Also- the only similarity between him and nathanos is... what? the facial hair? By that logic zovaal is also his self-insert since they're both bald. It's stupid. He's not self-inserting

dense plover
#

its talked about in the book that came before BfA