Because they won't give one side what they want but would willingly give the other side what they want :v
#beta-ptr-spoilers
hollow dock
terse patrol
They only have two which people have been wanting for years.
limber mural
sethraaaaaak
terse patrol
Still waiting for Forest Trolls and High Elves.
ruby prawn
No, Honk, rather, they add too many too fast
limber mural
sethraaaaaaak
ruby prawn
Forest trolls won't be a thing
hollow dock
I know a perfect way to make forest trolls and high elves be a thing.
ruby prawn
Sethrak... I could see them replace Worgen
uncut vault
I wouldnt say too fast, lol, Id say they used it as a way to input things their artists like for the initial batch, then put six months of drought between the next two batches
hollow dock
Use Alternate Azeroth. It exists :v Have the alliance and horde enter there, pick up their massive new allies, horde gets Zul or a child of Zul from the Amani, while we get Anasterian or Kael'thas for the alliance
and bam
ruby prawn
It was a long wait for them
plain vigil
fuck that forest trolls and wildhammers is a much better pair
hollow dock
but they aren't
ruby prawn
^
hollow dock
the iconic waring duo is High elves and Amani
zealous basalt
Des, your pacman is making me cringe
plain vigil
no since vanilla it's been wildhammer vs forest troll
the high elf shit wasnt brought up till bc
plain vigil
reeeeeee
plain vigil
still
terse patrol
Zandalari are just trolls standing straight
hollow dock
It's far more iconic
plain vigil
wildhammers are atleast differant than bronzebeards
hollow dock
so are Dark Iron
plain vigil
unlike high elfs a belfs
terse patrol
Wildhammers look like Bronzebeards who are shirtless with tattoos.
ruby prawn
They aren't just straight, which lore wise is already a huge thing, they have different skin
plain vigil
according to lore wildhammer are taller and leaner than bronzebeard
they're also different in that they lost the abilty to stoneform
hollow dock
You can make them lose the stupid slant stance, make them straighter back, more proud of themselves rather than snobby.
ruby prawn
High elves won't be a thing
hollow dock
They will be shut up
limber mural
but seriously can we get Sethrak then work onwards from there
ruby prawn
They added Void elves to replace High Elves
zealous basalt
But they gon be
hollow dock
They tried that
and it failed
miserably
If anything, the addition of Void Elves made the cry for high elves even louder
plain vigil
blefs are literally high elfs. just give them blue eye color
hollow dock
but you can make them not that
ruby prawn
Why do people want high elves anyway?
hollow dock
again
zealous basalt
What have you done
hollow dock
you two are just NOT reading what I'm saying
ruby prawn
It's just different eyes
hollow dock
sigh
plain vigil
i'm reading what the devs are saying
hollow dock
Why do I bother
uncut vault
second channel today Ive gotten into this
theyre desired for story, not just appearance
hollow dock
^
plain vigil
eh make up a story then
ruby prawn
Yeah
uncut vault
the idea of a normal, alliance loyal elf is appealing to people
hollow dock
Which is why I didn't want Junker Gnomes to be a thing.
ruby prawn
Imagination is your friend
hollow dock
I wanted that effort placed into High Elves
terse patrol
Give me high elves, and the males look like gerudo Link. 
plain vigil
junker gnomes are setup for tinker class. that's why they're happening
zealous basalt
No pls
plain vigil
same with vulpera
hollow dock
Goodbye engineering as a profession then
plain vigil
tinker class is already in the game for island expedition teams
hollow dock
not really.
zinc sandal
Not happening.
hollow dock
the gazlow we see is just HOTS gazlow
uncut vault
mrGM put up a nice video yesterday, showed off a few of the tinker abilities from islands, theyre pretty different from engineering
plain vigil
each faction has tinker each with different specs.
ruby prawn
Tinker will happen
hollow dock
and the gnomes we see are just grenade throwers
ruby prawn
They are setting them up
ruby prawn
With islands and the new zone
zinc sandal
Definitely not.
plain vigil
theres 3 tinkers in each faction on island expeditions
hollow dock
So why don't they give Undead "Dark ranger" instead of Marksman?
plain vigil
watch the t&e video
ruby prawn
Why don't they give Trolls shadow hunter specs?! Sobs
plain vigil
oh he finally released that?
plain vigil
Allied classes please. allow us to customize our spells
hollow dock
Naht hat won't happen
ruby prawn
Woah, taking it too far already
uncut vault
At this point, Id be fine if tinkers happen, and fine if they dont
hollow dock
it locks to much shit into not being able to change. Causing way to much work if a class needs a rework
plain vigil
i could see tinker as a 4th hunter spec
uncut vault
I just want some exclusive focus on gnomeregan gnomes some time
ruby prawn
Let us make ur own bodies with any parts we want from other races
plain vigil
play horde then porter /s XD
ruby prawn
Blood elf body with worgen arms and draenei feet.
terse patrol
Gnomeregan turned into a pet dungeon
The final stab in the heart of gnomes.
Must feel nice, trolls having their homeland back.
plain vigil
you get plenty of gnome lore and content in the horde war campaign
plain vigil
*i want to die *
uncut vault
Hey now, my profile pic is of my dark ranger charater
terse patrol
“hey gnomes, mekkatorque is doing cool stuff!!! roll horde to see it”
hollow dock
further proof he plays horde
uncut vault
ruby prawn
Yeah, Des, that's racist
plain vigil
my profile pic is wendys... think i play fast food?
uncut vault
TIL that art has a blue skinned, purple armored elf 🤔
ruby prawn
Fast food for new class @plain vigil
uncut vault
yes, sylvanas has blue skin
ruby prawn
Sylvanas has much more revealing armor unlike that drawing
zealous basalt
Ye
hollow dock
She reveals her cleavage
plain vigil
EHEM YOU MEAN FACTION @ruby prawn
ruby prawn
💯 proof it's not sylvanas
hollow dock
and that's it
ruby prawn
Used to reveal a lot more
zealous basalt
She is flatter than sylvanas
hollow dock
she isn't flatter than sylvanas
uncut vault
if you open the pic, the file is named Cynya, which is my hunter, lol
hollow dock
the bust is about the same
hollow dock
That still doesn't change that it looks like Sylvanas.
ruby prawn
Trust me, I read a lot of fan fiction and fan art
uncut vault
yes, she and sylvanas are both dark rangers with red eyes, you are correct
zealous basalt
Des is so traumatized that now ue thinks everyone is sylvanas
Even honk is sylvanas too
ruby prawn
We are all Sylvanas
ruby prawn
Every dark ranger looks like sylcanas
ruby prawn
Sylvanas***
zealous basalt
Donut steel?
hollow dock
Not every single dark ranger does though.
hollow dock
https://i.redd.it/mph21xng0byz.jpg prime Sylvanas
uncut vault
I can actually show you the character my gal is based on, where I got a lot of the armor from
terse patrol
uncut vault
zealous basalt
Bakame
uncut vault
LotR character, Eltariel
uncut vault
thnks
zealous basalt
Nice blender*
hollow dock
zealous basalt
Sylvanas after gym
zealous basalt
Sylvanas with mustache
terse patrol
limber mural
hipster sylvanas
uncut vault
yo whos that weird elf holding dog sylvanas
tropic trail
terse patrol
More Sylvanas art
ruby prawn
Did Vris rage quit?
zealous basalt
Nah
sudden oak
nah surely vris just blocked everyone
zealous basalt
Or he is busy
terse patrol
Makani is the best WoW fan art maker tho tbh
ruby prawn
Did you just assume their gender?
terse patrol
Makani did the TF2 comics
zealous basalt
Yes
terse patrol
Theyre v talented at comedy
zealous basalt
Got any focking problemas m8?
zealous basalt
Put it on the complaint mailbox
ruby prawn
Where is it?
zealous basalt
Idk
ruby prawn
You mean #wowhead-feedback-support ?
hollow dock
@sudden oak I only blocked Honk because he annoyed me. Really I just block people who annoy me.
ruby prawn
No, it says support as well
hollow dock
and yes as Mak said
ruby prawn
I need emotional support
hollow dock
I was busy. Had to help an old woman into my house.
zealous basalt
But you two are always on the same page when coming on High elf discussion
ruby prawn
I need every support
night swift
It means website support
zealous basalt
You know who can give you support?
ruby prawn
Sylvanas?
ruby prawn
vris blocks us
@hollow dock the way you said that last sentence makes me feel weird
I am creeped out
ruby prawn
Lol
hollow dock
I had to help my abuelita into my house meng D=
ruby prawn
Abuelita?
hollow dock
Abuela.
zealous basalt
Will she repaid with filling your tummy
ruby prawn
Abuela?
zealous basalt
Until you cant breathe?
ruby prawn
I still don't know what it means
hollow dock
Yes she will Mak. You of all people here should know the ire of an Abuela who hears you didnt eat today
Abuela is spanosh for grandmother, exp
Exo*
ruby prawn
Oh, so you are Spanish?
hollow dock
Yup. Colombian/Cuban
ruby prawn
Kinda explains the names
zealous basalt
Call him Pete and he goes chick chicky boom
hollow dock
Desara actually came from a japanese name; Kisara.
ruby prawn
Kisara?
hollow dock
Correct.
ruby prawn
Sounds familiar
zealous basalt
Wait, Desara is your name?
night swift
“The more you know”
zealous basalt
Ah
hollow dock
People just shorten it to Des because all my toons are "Des<class>"
zealous basalt
Can it be spoken as Desire?
ruby prawn
Can't wait for a new class called "pacito"
hollow dock
Original joke. :p 
zealous basalt
And why Vris
ruby prawn
Their first/second name
hollow dock
Its a play on my name. Since theres so many people in south florida with my name, my girlfriend often loses track of which one is which
So I named myself Vris. To stand out amongst the crowd
hollow dock
Depends on the straw
ruby prawn
How can it depend?
hollow dock
Straw doesnt just refer to the device we use to drink liquids with. Straws of hay for example have no holes in them
ruby prawn
Wow smarty pants, I'm talking about "the device we use to drink liquids with"
zinc sandal
This is clearly PTR related 👀
ruby prawn
I expected someone to say that
night swift
Important
zealous basalt
Sylvanas uses straws
ruby prawn
Does the straw toy from the ptr have one or two holes?
uncut vault
8.1.5 leak, sylvanas bans straws, gallywix begins the true revolution over the desire to sell soft drinks en masse
terse patrol
Hope we get canon endings for warfronts.
uncut vault
we're probably getting a canon ending for darkshore soon
quests for what seems to be it are already in the 8.1 files
ruby prawn
Everyone is secretly sylvanas
ruby prawn
No, it's Patrick
hollow dock
I hope that means that we are finally getting something to be proud of for the alliance.
uncut vault
limber mural
tbh the Alliance have just been unnecessarily bashed all expac (besides dazar'alor) so far
hollow dock
and we have no reason to keep fighting
zealous basalt
I blame Blizzard
uncut vault
I just hope we get an arathi ending too, and not just "this is a nebulous use of troops for the xpac to justify not helping tyrande"
ruby prawn
Yee
hollow dock
Cuz I have a theory on why Anduin isn't offering aid to Tyrande.
uncut vault
Yes, darkshore is the very first thing to happen chronologically in 8.1
ruby prawn
Anduin already said why
hollow dock
What if, thanks to SI:7 and stuff.
He's already planning Dazar'alor. Predicting how it'll go down
and he needs as many troops as he can spare and Arathi is already draining resources as is without a second open front to be fighting over.
uncut vault
well, minus death of rastakhan, we know he is, cause incursions have dubious canon of happening before the raid
hollow dock
It's a tough choice, but he makes the call to give Dazar'alor's battle the best chance to succeed.
uncut vault
the purpose of the nazmir one is to get a foothold within striking distance of the capitol
hollow dock
Which he needs the main bulk of the alliance prepped and ready to go
uncut vault
Id say thats likely
hollow dock
So it's a tough choice, but he's gotta take the one that ends the war quicker. Or at least, has the chance at doing it.
uncut vault
considering we basically enter at the end of the final meeting between the other leaders in the proudmoore garden
ruby prawn
Why do the nelves want To reclaim darkshore
hollow dock
It's their ancestral home
uncut vault
they talk like theyve been discussing it a while
hollow dock
it's where they've lived for over ten thousand years.
Darkshore is apart of the massive forest that is Ashenvale
uncut vault
not having forsaken blight your land is preferable to having forsaken blight your land
hollow dock
that too.
ruby prawn
But teldrasil is no more
terse patrol
Wonder how Dazaralor would have gone if Tyrande and Malfurion were there
zealous basalt
Teldrassil was recent
hollow dock
but Teldrassil isn't Darkshore
Darkshore is still Darkshore. It's still apart of Ashenvale.
zealous basalt
Compared to Ashenvale
ruby prawn
Instead of attacking darkshore, I would go balls to the walls and take orgrimmar when they don't expect it
hollow dock
While they've lived in Teldrassil for a few thousand years, Ashenvale as a whole has been their home.
that's a very stupid idea
the night elves don't have a fleet
they only have ground forces
Orgrimmar is the most heavily defended Horde city
Garrosh made sure of that.
zealous basalt
Considering that it is surrounded by small mountains
It is quite impossible to surround
hollow dock
and god forbid the night elves lose the initial attack
uncut vault
While I do believe the warfront should have been in ashenvale proper, as its always been more important to the story of the night elves, Darkshore is important, as it houses the grove of the ancients alongside being the main place the forsaken are right now (which is more of a story demand reason, but still canon)
hollow dock
where the hell do they run to?
zealous basalt
They can just foot it
hollow dock
You can't walk to Orgrimmar in any other way
zealous basalt
Cant
hollow dock
Yes but at that point she jus thad to go through what was left of Garrosh's horde.
zealous basalt
Because the juggernaut was already defeated
hollow dock
not the full brunt of the horde.
and
Unlike now
she had ashenvale to go through
she doesn't have ashenvale to go through
uncut vault
no I mean, she walked in from the direction of ashenvale, didnt sail
hollow dock
Yes I know
terse patrol
Azshara warfront would have been cool.
hollow dock
Ashenvale wasn't in horde hands until now.
terse patrol
Maybe it’ll happen still
hollow dock
they still controlled the majority of the forest during MoP.
That changed when they lost during Pre-patch
zealous basalt
Just like a Silvermoon warfront and Barrens?
uncut vault
and a giant stormwind 'destroying' cannon
terse patrol
Azshara could be gnomes vs goblins
ruby prawn
They should invade northrend and exploit the uranium and make atomic bombs
hollow dock
I really doubt that canon actually works as advertised
there isn't any uranium in Northrend
O.o
zealous basalt
I have never seen it shotting
ruby prawn
Where is uranium then
hollow dock
No where
ruby prawn
They can make it
zealous basalt
And implying it doesnt blow itself
ruby prawn
It's a story
zealous basalt
Baited
hollow dock
which is pure concentrated mana detonated and mimics that of a nuclear explosion.
without any of the radiation.
We see the effects of a super-charged one being dropped on Theramore.
hollow dock
I doubt it.
zealous basalt
Fueled by the focusing iris too?
hollow dock
Fairly certain there's a reason that mana bombs stopped being made after Kael'thas
terse patrol
Mana bombs are kind of an OP thing.
hollow dock
until Garrosh forced a bunch of goblins to make one.
or maybe just paid them
¯_(ツ)_/¯
zealous basalt
Probably the second
limber mural
paid em probably
goblins are well known to have absolutely zero moral compass
objectively
uncut vault
there were mana bombs lying around in WoD, and Khadgar used them in legion
terse patrol
Makin moneys moral, kid.
hollow dock
wait where did Khadgar use them?
uncut vault
7.2 intro, on the ship in the middle of the broken shore
hollow dock
h yea that's right.
uncut vault
we go in, plant them, mess up mephistroth and he detonates them
hollow dock
Huh I completely forgot about that.
Maybe they just aren't used in the horde alliance war for some reason.
uncut vault
well, probably cause theyre a plot tool blizz uses when convenient 😛
terse patrol
Tbh
I’d like a scene where the Alliance finds out about a mana bomb being prepped to use by the Horde
uncut vault
I still have mine macroed to target @cursor with my undercity banner
uncut vault
would be an actual interesting use of void elves
knowledge of belf stuff, undetectable portals
hollow dock
Hold on now Port
that sounds like we're giving an edge to the alliance
Now their portal Nightborne can detect them
terse patrol
Ah, the Nightborne, whose teleportation magic was built around pre constructed telepads.
But now they can just go anywhere with them.
uncut vault
Eh, at least they tied in the portal network thing in zuldazar
they cut out the actual explanation for their origin but
it was there in beta
you know what should have been the zuldazar base upgrade?
add one of those portals to and from the seal and the dock
instead of flight paths
hollow dock
but muh flight paths
uncut vault
I swear, ripa the wind ripper is gonna be stacked by the end of bfA
oh hey, its still on the wall
in alpha, originally you went to zandalar/kul tiras before meeting magni
in kul tiras, he just shows up, and has funny quips with taelia and flynn
but in zandalar, he shows up through this, after the archaeology dude comments that they dont know what they are, and that theyve never been activated
magni reveals that theyre ancient titan telepads
zealous basalt
Why did they cut it
uncut vault
they swapped around the order
so magni never shows up in zandalar or kul tiras
now you meet with nathanos/wyrmbane directly after the battle for lordaeron, and get the quest popup to go meet magni
dense plover
It’s so you get to see the sword b4 going to the other continent if you didn’t see it before. It leaves a better impression of the issue
Good story change
limber mural
I mean if everyone came from Legion I think the first would've been better but I do agree this works more realistically
terse patrol
Reminder, this is a quote from Dark Ranger Velonara.
“I fell in battle as the mad prince cut a black scar through the land I loved. But at least I was at peace, I suppose. For a time. Until the Banshee Queen pulled me back from beyond and damned my soul into her service.”
🤔
uncut vault
Yeah Sylvanas was forced to raise other banshees during the fall of Quel’thalas
That’s a reason why she’s considered their mistress
Beyond being the first
terse patrol
Archmage screams for his followers not to let them turn them, dies.
gets raised and salutes
zealous basalt
You need better glasses des
hollow dock
During cata, its a chouce
terse patrol
#freewill
hollow dock
Rather. Not a true choice
See a friend and I have been thinking. Theorized something with the Valkyr
What if: and this is a huge if
The valkyr of the lich king can only raise those of weak will.
Not restricted to any race. But to ones will powe
Power*
terse patrol
idk. The rules are so inconsistent.
hollow dock
Think it though
It would make a pot of things sensible.
Why people can resist on Darkshore
terse patrol
My favorite tin foil theory is that the Val’kyr still serve the Lich King, and the new undead just seem loyal to Sylvanas, but when the time comes they flick a switch so to speak, and they’re suddenly Scourge-loyal. Like Order 66. I doubt that’s the case though, just my fanfic idea.
dense plover
thats so insane
terse patrol
I guess humans have low willpower
Hence why they’re raised consistently
But nelves are harder.
hollow dock
Exactly
Remember what I keep saying of WoW humans
Theyre greedy, spiteful
Except one group
Priests and paladins.
Even when successful in being risen
They dont follow sylvanas
Faith gives them that will. Some night elves had their faith broken
Most didnt
Its a huge if, but my wager is that is how the Valkyr work
And...maybe
Just maybe
Sylvanas is the one working for them.
She was rerisen by them. At her most vulnerable.
At her weakest will.
terse patrol
I mean, it would be a good plot twist.
“lol so, you were made a pawn of the lich king again”
“hows that feel sylvanas”
hollow dock
Thats where my bet is placed
@uncut vault @dense plover how do you two think of mine theory crafted with a friend of mine?
dense plover
idk
i think its more likely that we see sylvanas say she believed she was doing stuff for the greater good and straight up leave the horde
leaving some new undead leader in charge
or maybe she sacrifices herself to save nathanos, idk
i want nathanos dead so bad
i straight up do not know where they are going with the story
which honestly, is fucking great
somehow azshara attacks us and sylvanas ends up with that dagger
i have no fucking clue
honestly, we are going to nazjatar, so i dont care as long as they dont make sylvanas a raid boss
hollow dock
Wasnt really what I was talking about.
But alright
Was more just trying to think of a reason to properly string the seemingly inconsistent abilities of the Valkyr
uncut vault
I think it’s just that they intended it to be free will for the Val’kyr, but leaned too hard into rule of cool in Cata
It certainly would be interesting for the Val’kyr to have a greater role
But they seem more like tools for the more important characters
digital estuary
a Val'kyr more as it's own character than a mechanic would be nice
misty blaze
i dont want sylvanas to die any more she dies enough times
zinc sandal
She only needs to die one last time.
zinc sandal
I meant forever.
hollow dock
If she dies again she gets revived by the valks tho
tropic trail
Or she will not, horde undead have become something strange
tropic trail
They can't fail
hollow dock
Thats just plot armor.
zealous basalt
What is
oak prairie
hello
unborn glacier
@zinc sandal Nah. She needs to remain Warchief
hollow dock
She only needs to remain if they want the horde to continue being bad guys
zealous basalt
And wouldn't that be the typical badie badie Horde either?
Step up your baiting game m8
Both sides are really cliche and have always been
I don't know if you are aware, but WoW has your typical faction where both hate eachother until a big and worse party comes and threats everyone so they team up
unborn glacier
Nah. If you've played at all pre-Cata, Horde wasn't the "bad guys" They were a group of outcasts fighting for their place.
But nice to know, if I dare have a mind of my own and not jump on the "Anti-Sylvanas" train, I'm automatically trying to troll and bait
xD
Good meme
zealous basalt
If you played since Warcraft Horde has been always the bad guys
For the Alliance
Just like Alliance are the bad guys for the Horde
I don't care if you are a Sylvanas' toesucker or a Saurfang's sleevewasher
It's the same horde
unborn glacier
XD
zealous basalt
All the whole "Oh no different ideals" is a way to just split an opinion of a work well executed or not
In the end it's the same
unborn glacier
Not even mate. You play W3, like at all?
zealous basalt
I did
unborn glacier
Then you're just making shit up to troll?
unborn glacier
I mean, literally the Orcs were fighting to free themselves on two fronts the entire time. From the racist, oppressive Humans and the Legions blood rage.
Literal inner conflict to show they weren't evil, but fighting inner demons (almost literally)
zealous basalt
And yet those orcs that you mention are the same ones that fight just because they can in a fight they started, way to show that they aren't evil
But those aren't what you are supporting, right?
zealous basalt
Makin shit up the squidhead says, when it is proven in game and in media that the Orcish part of the Horde are always the first ones to prove their honor in wars
unborn glacier
In war. The Orcs of the 3rd war didnt fight just to fight.
So yeah, just makin shit up
zealous basalt
The Mak'gora and the Mak'rohan of the Warsong clan proves otherwise
And they are the same orcs of the first and second wars
unborn glacier
Thrall would have NEVER become the leader if the Orcs were evil. But, you cant acknowledge that
The Orcs did NOT want to be the Orcs of the 1st and 2nd war
zealous basalt
Thrall stepped up because he tried to show everyone that orcs can live in 'armony'
zealous basalt
But his own commander said otherwise
unborn glacier
XD
zealous basalt
Or do you forget Grom fighting against the Night elves and chosing to drink Mannoroth's blood?
unborn glacier
Aight. This is bait I fell for. Good one.
zealous basalt
More like your dead brain can't see it's all the same
unborn glacier
XD
zealous basalt
Now out of everyone's view
unborn glacier
Good meme, bruh
night swift
Mak we’re getting reverse baited
zealous basalt
How is that even a picture
night swift
I knew what we were getting into from the icon alone
zealous basalt
focking woomies
unborn glacier
Again, not everyone you disagree with is a troll, lil victim
terse patrol
racist oppressive humans
Orcs were fighting to free themselves from the prisons they earned for themselves by invading a planet for the sole purpose of conquest.
boo hoo poor orcs :((
zealous basalt
NO HONK!
terse patrol
i know, he’s a troll
hollow dock
@unborn glacier Thrall became leader of the orcs SPECIFICALLY TO TRY AND MAKE THEM NOT EVIL
He knew full well that they drank demon blood and went batshit crazy
his whole reasoning for becoming warchief and taking the mantle from Orgrim was to right their wrongs
and he failed miserably
unborn glacier
To prove they weren't the same orcs that came through the Dark Portal* There, fixed it for you. And proved it he did.
night swift
Thats literally what Des said. He wanted to help the orcs and make them better, but it flopped
zinc sandal
repeatedly reaffirms Wynter is a troll
continues to argue with them nonetheless
?????
sinful venture
@unborn glacier Don't bother Wynter
The majority of this discord are for the Alliance so arguing your point won't change their minds
sinful venture
Like it's a lore discussion, why take it personal
hollow dock
I litearlly said
He did it because the orcs were evil and wanted to make them better
@sinful venture How is that in any effort a bad thing I am saying/hating because I'm alliance
That is objectively what had happened. That was his discussion with Orgrim
I haven't said you're a troll :< @unborn glacier I was correcting your statement. Thrall knew the orcs had done bad things, but wanted to show that this new horde he was making wanted peace.
not that they weren't the same orcs, but that they just wanted peace now.
it failed miserably in the long run but ya know
sinful venture
You didn't call him a troll but Lazaeris did. Also you Des and Makore take these lore discussions to a "I am better than you because you can't understand why I feel this way" very quickly and it turns into name calling every quickly. Nothing wrong seeing the lore as black/white although you know Wynter Skye and I don't feel that way
Also a quick note on the failed miserably, that's only because they wanted a Garrosh situation for some reason
probably to link to warlords
hollow dock
But hte lore is black and white.
Like what I always have an issue with is people saying you can interpret something that's very clearly cut and dry.
when you can't. it's not left open to interpretation there.
Other places like say
what happened in the 4 years between Warcraft 3 and WoWs start
that's open to interpretation as to what happened
who was the aggressor and who wasn't
and on the failure bit, while it was on Garrosh as to why he failed, I do interpret the larger reasoning as Orcs are just to set in their ways.
sinful venture
Sorry you're right, enjoy your interpretation of the lore
hollow dock
You're legitimately just being antagonizing
Thralls reasoning for leading the horde was to get peace for hispeople and right their wrongs. that is what is discussed between him and Orgrim
You cannot say that's an interpretation
terse patrol
@hollow dock You forget there is a large number of people who unironically believe the Orcs arrived on Azeroth looking for a new home and the humans attacked first.
zealous basalt
Why cant people be like peach
zinc sandal
@sinful venture Didn’t call Wynter a troll. I said they kept saying Wynter was a troll.
unborn glacier
@zealous basalt Why can't you accept others have opinions that don't align with yours and it doesn't make them trolls?
zealous basalt
Are you that hurt that you are still debating? This was a yesterday topic m8, you base your opinions as a fact even if the lore is there, i have nothing else to speak with you
And if you are really wondering, i have debated with other people with different opinions, but they are more likeable than you, so
hollow dock
just do as I, block em Mak.
zealous basalt
Better just ignore em
unborn glacier
Ah yes, the typical response when you know you've lost
dense plover
8.1.5 ptr today bois
the general discussion forum went up about 10 min ago
BOIS
"• New quests and questlines focused on Magni, Hati, and the eight non-gathering primary Professions"
"Additionally, you may see some features referenced in this PTR (such as Ashran as an Epic Battleground) that are not part of 8.1.5, but may be introduced in a later update. We’ll keep an eye out for such things and make sure to let you know what we aren’t testing in this PTR."
hollow dock
I'm concerned.
dense plover
why?
hollow dock
I legitimately don't care. This is the first time in years that I just.
Haven't cared
dense plover
also, they are starting the naga story
"Naga invasion World Quests"
either this will be like the mini raid world quests in legion
or it will use the assault system
im hoping the assault system
hopefully we see preliminary class changes of some kind
if we dont see anything, then i will be sad
this ptr essentially has 2 months to be finished
i dont expect major class changes
but i would love to see some tweaks to show that they recognize issues
karmic copper
hati was the second pet BM hunters got in legion after getting their artifact weapon
karmic copper
then they removed hati at the start of bfa
dense plover
more magni story is good too
night swift
Ayy Hati’s back
dense hull
This is the dumbest thing I'm excited about, but a roller coaster in Darkmoon!
And the allied races - finally!
uncut vault
With Hati now returning, that makes fire mage the only spec without their cosmetic back
faint notch
waht was fire mage cosmetic?
dense plover
i think they need it to be in a place that is post-legion, but isnt out of the way
uncut vault
The three orbs around their head
Colored to their artifact appearance
I’ve got a sliver of hope that it’s not readded because they’re considering making Phoenix flames baseline again
Which is literally all the spec needs to be fine design wise
zealous basalt
you are exvited
tulip sun
And recruitment quests for Zandalari xD
zealous basalt
So when will it drop?
dense plover
i agree about phoenix flames
100% should be baseline
just like rushing jade wind should be baseline for brewmaster
its the only filler ability, and it generates AoE threat
dense plover
these might not be in this build
the notes are a bit confusing about which parts are and arent in
tulip sun
I want to primarily know details for the recruitment quests though. And I know, but it means it is coming soon
Within the next couple weeks or so
zealous basalt
I thought the raid came along with the patch
zealous basalt
O
tulip sun
Huh
dense plover
its the recruitment questline, so it cant go live until lfr players can earn it
like with 7.3.5
zealous basalt
Wait
tulip sun
So long
dense plover
its 2 months
zealous basalt
The recruitment needs battle for Dazar'alor?
dense plover
100%
dense plover
gonna require beating the final boss probably
dense plover
just like part of the war campaign did for uldir
tulip sun
I still gotta get my Clefthoof v.v
zealous basalt
ah
tulip sun
At 55 percent
dense plover
again, like with uldir ghuun being part of the war campaign
this is part of it too
the last step requires defeating jaina
thats the part thats currently next
karmic copper
is there anything revealed about the kultiran and zandalari allied race scenario yet?
dense plover
"wait for the raid" is really just "defeat jaina in battle for dazaralor"
nope
we know nothing
zealous basalt
We are jon snow
dense plover
what IS cool though, is that kul tirans and zandalari get their massive city as their spawn area, and can always go back, which will be AMAZING for RP
karmic copper
i wonder what the zandalari scenario will be like
karmic copper
kultiran one will probaly be about the drust or blowing up pirates
dense plover
probably the 2nd one
but i would love to get more drust story
that dude is on the load screen
he deserves a raid
dense plover
he already looks badass
the problem is he is dead
although how permanently is up for debate
i hope we see him, and get more drust story
we got so little
terse patrol
hrrrgh i wanna see them data mines
terse patrol
ye i know
unborn glacier
I still want a quiver >:(
uncut vault
I’m hoping the main focus of the Zandalari scenario is who the new loa for the Zandalari is
The Paladins, that is
dense plover
the new paladin loa?
karmic copper
rezan?
dense plover
i hope the tiger
karmic copper
or someone else
dense plover
that tiger deserves more story
uncut vault
Is gonna be gone from the story for a while, even if he isn’t perma dead
I hope kimbul too
His VA is tyrael
Who better than the aspect of justice for the paladin loa
But chances are it’ll be Vol’jin
karmic copper
as the paladin loa?
uncut vault
As the new loa of Kings
night swift
I could get behind that honestly
karmic copper
he was a shadow hunter though
uncut vault
And he’s now touched by the hand of valor, and is glowing holy
karmic copper
holy'jin
dense plover
could be shirvallah
terse patrol
inb4 its Tyrs spirit
uncut vault
assuming blizz remembers shes a thing, and not just kimbul with armor
does anyone remember if Trial of Valor got raid tested?
uncut vault
Not seeing crucible of Storms in either list for testing, wondering if its just because they dont test the mid-tier raids
dense plover
i mean, shirvallah is literally the paladin spirit in hearthstone
crucible storms testing will likely happen towards the release of 8.1.5
especially since it only has 2 bosses
if it even gets tested
uncut vault
She is, but shes also only been associated with Druids in official lore, and her art in Hearthstone is literally Kimbuls model with armor
down to the scar
terse patrol
I assume we’ll get raid dialogue at least
tulip sun
Shirvallah does need to appear
uncut vault
It likely wont be her, though, since I doubt theyre going to choose a loa that hasnt appeared at all this xpac
jade basalt
Shirvallah just made too much sense to feature on Zandalar, can't have that ! So they pulled Kimbul out of nowhere. And unintentionally retconned his recently-established appearance too in the process..
They messed up.
uncut vault
PTR realms went down 
uncut vault
I was worried it wouldnt go up today, and Id be waiting all night in anticipation
He was originally a farraki loa, wasnt he?
I dont think explicitly so, but thats who he was involved with in Traveler I think
jade basalt
@tulip sun Kimbul is supposed to be blackest of black, with blacker stripes on his black fur
Him being also worshipped by the Farraki is fine imo, loa can have different tribes following them. If anything, it creates more diversity.
uncut vault
I think their reason for using him is that they didnt want someone explicitly tied to druidic/shamanistic magics. Not that it mattered for her hearthstone appearance, but Shirvallah and her priests predominantly had shamanistic connections, with some druids turning to her too. Kimbul had a bit cleaner slate in terms of magic associated with him, allows the zandalari shamans to predominantly worship paku, not be split
jade basalt
I had written something some time ago
I don't think they even thought about that for one second. Hell it's not even a solid connection really.
There !
It's not a contradiction, or a retcon, or anything really.
It's just.. a missed opportunity, I guess, which also had the consequence of rerconning slightly Kimbul who hadn't done anything wrong to anyone !
And then came the Hearthstone team who got it all wrong (again) and named Kimbul 'Shirvallah', or depicted Shirvallah as Kimbul, who knows.
These two can't catch a break 😛
tulip sun
I mean, there could always just be several tiger loas
uncut vault
woulda been funny, if a bit lorebreaking, if it turned out that kimbul was just what the farraki called shirvallah, and they were very confused
tulip sun
Kimbul technically was kinda a lost loa until BfA
jade basalt
There are several tiger loas, yes. Almost always been. I don't think anyone argued that. 😛
@uncut vault Booo. No. My loa need to be diverse !
On the other hand, inadvertently interpreting the same being as two different beings by different cultures would also be interesting.. Kind of like Elune / Mu'sha etc.
dense plover
Raid testing of crucible of storms is happening
dense plover
1.89gb
tulip sun
Doesn't sound like a lot
dense plover
It’s a .5 patch
Not much to add
Models are small, biggest files are music and that won’t be in until near the end
tulip sun
Yup...gotta be patient Khamn
uncut vault
hope marlamin's already on it
his modelviewer's the best for seeing models now that you can choose between files and it shows the names
uncut vault
tfw literally today I was commenting on how theyre never gonna use mother again
8.1.5 Magni - Uldir
Description: Magni and Brann venture into Uldir to meet MOTHER.
Difficulty: 5-player Normal Scenario
OrderIndex: 10
dense plover
“Stop! ... I returned Derek Proudmoore to his family.
I could not stand by and permit such depravity to unfold.”
Zelling betrays
And I think Baine gets angry
uncut vault
I have troubling news. It seems there are traitors in our midst.
Most of you need fear nothing.
But Derek Proudmoore didn't flee to Kul Tiras by himself. He had help. Didn't he...
... Zelling?
You raised him as a Forsaken. But you planned to deny him his free will. To violate his mind.
Thank you for your honesty.
Banshee! Are we nothing more than pawns in your game? You betray the Horde!
No. He did. And so did you.
Take him.
Other will see you for what you are, Sylvanas. You will leave the Horde in ruins!
There is no place for weakness in our ranks.
tfw zelling thinks shes betraying the horde, when he joined five minutes ago
dense plover
No
uncut vault
"No. He did. And so did you."
dense plover
Just that line
uncut vault
sure sounds like it
uncut vault
100% sylvanas planned on this
baine is the one person jaina would trust to bring back her brother safely
without it being a scheme
uncut vault
only way he could get to the proudmoores without being killed onsight
foggy abyss
Huge update on PTR
tulip sun
At least horde gets SOMETHING good xD
foggy abyss
@tulip sun OH SHIT
tulip sun
But ya...things are heating up big time
dense plover
They redid the fire horn?
foggy abyss
DUDE IT LOOKS AMAZING
tulip sun
Paladin mount ❤
tulip sun
The direhorn is still amazing
But pay respects for Zelling everyone
It was a good few patches
foggy abyss
I wonder if the Zandalaris / kul'tiran are in the current update
Tbh i wonder if the 8.1.5 won't hit in like a Month
jade basalt
They fixed the crappy Direhorn, looks awesome now. I had complained about it on Twitter.
foggy abyss
a little before the last Raid wing
night swift
they arent coming until after the raid
dense plover
8.1.5 will come with last lfr wing
foggy abyss
A little after maybe
uncut vault
which did they fix @jade basalt ? The one we just saw is the paladin one
not the racial one
dense plover
That’s how 7.3.5 worked
dense plover
They’re redoing the northrend maps
Hope BC gets the same treatment
Zoomable flight maps is one of the best changes
foggy abyss
Faction expansion
uncut vault
oof, bwonsamdi offers to leave the zandalari alone, if talanji brings him sylvanas' head
she refuses
foggy abyss
Link
uncut vault
tulip sun
Oh my
uncut vault
zelling and baine think he isnt, yes
Im betting he is, its just subtle conditioning
Sylvanas planting it in, counting on baine giving him to Jaina so that she doesnt kill him on sight, then activating him
uncut vault
We dont, but hes the only person that fits
uncut vault
okay, nzoths lines are really interesting
zealous basalt
what do they say
uncut vault
"The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all. Six seats at the high table. Six mouths that hunger. One will consume all others."
dense plover
What does that mean?
dense plover
Oh I thought maybe the council of 6
uncut vault
six primary magics, one (probably death) looking to consume them all
zealous basalt
spook
jade basalt
Or maybe just 6 Void Lords.
The Void voices said Sylvanas served the true enemy.
N'zoth says the Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all.
Inb4 Lightforged undead
foggy abyss
@tulip sun cuz he admited it
uncut vault
"The veil wanes. His crown will open the way."
"The full night reveals her true face. She will bring only ruin."
foggy abyss
uncut vault
"When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away."
dense plover
interface/dressupframe/dressupbackground-kultiran4.blp
dressup backgrounds are in for new races
its possible the play background menus are too
interface/glues/models/ui_kultiran/kultiran_background_02.blp
yep
night swift
oh I cant wait to see that
uncut vault
"She is not the last.... but the first. Drown her... then you will see."
dense plover
heres something
assassinsscenariodru
what are the chances dru is drustvar
or drust
warfrontbarrens
tons of added files
foggy abyss
Dang
dense plover
next warfront is barrens
uncut vault
"That which was sunken shall rise. All that was sleeping shall be awakened."
foggy abyss
that's spooky
foggy abyss
What
dense plover
also, seems a fuck ton of animations were modified
specifically orc male and female
and nightelf female
tulip sun
I really wanted the barrens warfront
dense plover
and some skins for orcs too
dense plover
male troll got modified animations