beta-ptr-spoilers

[true matrix]

a lot of people don't care about classic ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow dock]

that I think Vanilla is shit?

[serene zodiac]

arguments

[dim flower]

A lot of people do too.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow dock]

If you do enjoy it

I won't touch it with a ten foot pole

[serene zodiac]

trade chat, basically

[hollow dock]

enjoy your nostalgia

[dim flower]

Thanks, I'll enjoy it.

[hollow dock]

but I want my BFA to progress

not regress

[ruby star]

I don't like Vanilla but thats my opinion

Vanilla lacks content

[dim flower]

With no improvements, you'll literally do neither.

[serene zodiac]

except less politics and racism than /2

[strange falcon]

I've personally played vanilla,and while it was great when it was current,I certainly wouldn't do it again

[true matrix]

marginally

[dim flower]

Both games have their pros and cons, certainly.

[hollow dock]

Now Im not saying that antorus is perfect, there are certain things that can be altered and improved, like granting slightly more mobility to those that are heavily lacking it or removing some mobility from those that have to much.

[dim flower]

Vris

I think the basis

For why we disagree

[serene zodiac]

wtb unholy presence

[dim flower]

Is because we have different game design morals.

[hollow dock]

WTB more movespeed.

[dim flower]

So it's not worth the argument.

[hollow dock]

Gimme dem legendary boots

[dim flower]

Just sayin

[true matrix]

game design morals?

[dim flower]

Get yourself a druid

And stampeding roar.

[ruby star]

Gonna put this put this out there GCD is good

[hollow dock]

Oh we do

[dim flower]

Yes, orewing.

[serene zodiac]

game design morals = snake tiddies

[dim flower]

Different game design morals.

Those exist.

[true matrix]

preferences would be a better word surely

[hollow dock]

If we have different PHILOSOPHIES

I think that's what you mean

not morals

[dim flower]

Whatever.

The idea got through.

That was the point.

[hollow dock]

Indeed. But at the same time, I dont wanna go back to vanilla's standard of

'You play this and if you play not this, fuck you'

[dim flower]

Actually

You'd be surprise.

Vanilla design isn't as bad as they say it is.

[serene zodiac]

get your self a buff bot I mean, a paladin

[hollow dock]

Oh yea at the halfway point

with a full rework to all the classes

[dim flower]

All classes were viable.

[hollow dock]

it got better

[dim flower]

In one way or another.

[hollow dock]

but at the start

oh boy

[dim flower]

Well yeah, Vanilla isn't perfect.

[serene zodiac]

vanilla paladins? viable??????

[dim flower]

It had flaws.

[ruby star]

Honestly why on earth do you wanna play vanilla?

[dim flower]

But that's what patches do.

Paladins were amazing.

[hollow dock]

But then again we gotta have that fun

[dim flower]

What're you talking about?

[ruby star]

It has hardly any content

[hollow dock]

spend 20 minutes buffing the raid

[dim flower]

LMAO

[hollow dock]

and drinking

just to buff the raid some more

[dim flower]

IT HAS THE MOST CONTENT

[ruby star]

Compared to live WoW

[dim flower]

WITH 60 FULL LEVELS AND 2 HUGE CONTINENTS

[serene zodiac]

and then another hour getting people back on tasj

[ruby star]

No it doesn't

[strange falcon]

vanilla=all classes were viable,paladins were amazing,man those nostalgia glasses wow

[serene zodiac]

task*

[hollow dock]

I mean

[serene zodiac]

lmfao

[hollow dock]

Legion has 110 levels

and more than 2 continents

[dim flower]

Legion got +10

And 1 continent

That was my point.

[hollow dock]

1-110

[ruby star]

Live has 110 levels and a fuck ton of continents

[hollow dock]

that's all of legion

[serene zodiac]

those strats that involved keeping some paladins out of combat so they could rez on baron geddon

[dim flower]

1-99 are hardly used.

[hollow dock]

Not now

with the leveling revamp

[dim flower]

No they're still hardly used.

[ruby star]

But we get new content

[dim flower]

When was the last time you went to Stranglethorn Vale for some nice world pvp

[ruby star]

Vanilla jusy stays the same and gets boring

[dim flower]

Vanilla has patch progression

[hollow dock]

In which I kinda do have to just say, my issue with a vanilla server is that you won't get any new content

[dim flower]

Just like any other expansion

[ruby star]

Yes but at thr end of vanilla

[dim flower]

You will if you didn't play Vanilla

[hollow dock]

Once vanilla is at uh

[dim flower]

You'll get TBC most likely, Drorith.

[hollow dock]

what was it's last one

Naxx?

[dim flower]

1.12

[hollow dock]

you're kinda stuck there

[dim flower]

Naxx was 1.11

[serene zodiac]

the only legacy server I would be interested in and okay with not getting extra content for is wrath

[hollow dock]

so yea Naxx is your last raiding content

So you'd endthere

[dim flower]

Not if we progress into TBC

[hollow dock]

and just be stuck there

[ruby star]

Well they classic servers are not mov8ng onto TBC

[hollow dock]

But then its no longer classic

[serene zodiac]

you won't go into tbc

[ruby star]

From whag we know

[dim flower]

You have no clue if that's the case

None of you do

[ruby star]

Neither do you

[hollow dock]

Classic WoW is supposed ot be Vanilla

How is it vanilla

[dim flower]

No, but you're saying it's going to end at Vanilla.

[hollow dock]

if its TBC?

[true matrix]

I'm only interested in classic if it gives us rewards that we can use in retail otherwise there's no point investing to me

[dim flower]

Because TBC is also classic content?

[ruby star]

Well it is fonna end at vanilla

Its a classic server

[hollow dock]

So is wrath also classic content?

[ruby star]

Its in the name

[dim flower]

Yes.

Cataclysm is where it stops.

[hollow dock]

Cataclysm?

[serene zodiac]

classic usually means original

[dim flower]

Because that's where no remnants of classic remain.

tbh

[hollow dock]

Well MoP is now considered classic

[serene zodiac]

so, vanilla

[dim flower]

Not really, no.

There's no old world in MoP

[ruby star]

CLASSIC =Vanila only

[hollow dock]

There was no old world in WotLK

[dim flower]

Yes there was

[hollow dock]

You were on northrend

[dim flower]

???

[hollow dock]

the entire time

[dim flower]

Yes, but there were Kalimdor and EK

[hollow dock]

Those are there for every expansion

[dim flower]

And it was still experienced since leveling was actually long.

[hollow dock]

that's the point of building on classic

[serene zodiac]

northrend is not a part of the "old worldx

[dim flower]

Yes but remember Cata?

[serene zodiac]

neither is outland

[hollow dock]

And that was an utter shit show

[dim flower]

Cataclysm got rid of the old world.

[hollow dock]

No one liked leveling in cata

[dim flower]

Remember that?

[true matrix]

I've heard literally nothing to imply that classic will be anything beyond vanilla

[dim flower]

That's why I consider Wrath to be classic.

[serene zodiac]

cata leveling was bad

[hollow dock]

Kalmindor and EK are still there

today

in legion

they're not gone

[dim flower]

Nothing implies that it won't either @true matrix

[ruby star]

Wrath isn't classic neither is TBC

Classic is Vanilla

[hollow dock]

So then OK. Let's go ahead and say it stops at WotLK

[dim flower]

That's a whole.

[hollow dock]

are you really content at only staying at ICC grindouts

for the rest of your life

[dim flower]

PVP is timeless.

Plus, we could have multiple servers.

[serene zodiac]

hard pass

[hollow dock]

So you're OK just fighting for epeen in full relentless gear

[dim flower]

Hold on.

[hollow dock]

until the end of time

[dim flower]

There's another strat.

[ruby star]

Well of you wanna play the same content (Vanilla) non stop for 10+ years go ahead

[dim flower]

There's a possibility you get a new fresh classic server.

[serene zodiac]

so you're saying the only draw to classic servers is pvp

[true matrix]

ew

[dim flower]

I would love to, yes, but fine, there won't be endless content.

BUT

LET'S SAY

[ruby star]

I will stick to Live WoW

[dim flower]

That classic servers will continue in the footsteps

[hollow dock]

But at that point, why even bother upgrading it to WotLK?

[ruby star]

Will new content

[dim flower]

Of every expansion.

Okay, I'll type the whole thing out.

So I actually get my point across.

Hold on.

[serene zodiac]

I doubt that blizzard is going to pay a team to keep classic updated.

[ruby star]

But whats the point of the classic servers if they are just gonna move onto TBC etc

They will keep at vanilla

[dim flower]

Okay, so let's say that we follow the footsteps of every expansion? That way we can get past the entire "oh classic stops at classic and there will be 0 content" thing. Now, let's compare the ACTUAL CONTENT to Live, yeah?

Rather than its lifetime.

[serene zodiac]

I don't understand

[ruby star]

Well theres is more content in live then vanilla

[dim flower]

Drorith, we're past that.

Compare the actual content.

Not the lifetime.

[ruby star]

Its an expansion

[hollow dock]

I mean on live I can go and do anything from this current expac

or any of the prior expacs

[ruby star]

Ofc os not gonna Have base game content

[serene zodiac]

there is still six expansions worth of content on live

[dim flower]

Yeah?

[hollow dock]

so I'd argue live will always have more content

[dim flower]

Oh, yes, it'll have more content, but I literally.

Never said that.

I'm comparing the content.

[hollow dock]

You said that vanilla has the most content

[serene zodiac]

so am i?

[dim flower]

In comparison to the content provided in expansions.

[strange falcon]

guys,I'm running out of popcorn,and everyone involved perfectly knows this argument has been going in circles ever since it started and will never end,but sure go on

[dim flower]

Yes.

[serene zodiac]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "content"

[hollow dock]

when that's simply not true. We're showing you examples of how that's not true. And the only thing you've shown us is that we get the old-old world

[dim flower]

In terms of content that we get added, yes.

I'll reword it for you.

[true matrix]

@strange falcon here you can have some of mine

🍿

[dim flower]

Classic has added the most content out of every expansion.

oof

[hollow dock]

But vanilla isn't an expansion

:L

[serene zodiac]

I'm pretty sure that tbc had more raid tiers than vanilla

[dim flower]

Oml

[hollow dock]

it's just the base game

[dim flower]

You like loopholes.

Don't you.

[hollow dock]

Yes

I do

[dim flower]

Again.

It's the idea.

TBC had only 10 levels.

[hollow dock]

In which I have to state that, the truth of it all is that live just has more to do on it than a classic server does in the lifetime of each.

[dim flower]

Vanilla had 60

[hollow dock]

since backtracking exsits in this game for a reason

[strange falcon]

the smart debater doesn't leave loopholes in his arguments

[serene zodiac]

sixty levels of drudgery, yeah

[dim flower]

That's opinion based.

[serene zodiac]

then you could actually play the game

[dim flower]

I liked the leveling.

[hollow dock]

and that's great for you. I can expect a lot of people that want tog o back to vanilla did nejoy the leveling to some dregree

degree*

[dim flower]

Personally, meeting people I could see later down the line and talk about our progression with.

That was exciting.

[serene zodiac]

there won't be any expansions, though. there won't be anything new

[dim flower]

Again

[hollow dock]

I won't lie, I kind of do miss that leveling. But all the QoL changes, like not having to be with a buddy as a priest, are sorely going to get missed.

[dim flower]

That's not the argument I'm making.

You can level solo as any class.

[sudden pollen]

[serene zodiac]

lol

[dim flower]

If I can level a warrior to 60, you can too.

[hollow dock]

Oh well yea. But I remember leveling a warrior needed eating.

A lot of eating.

[dim flower]

Mhm

[serene zodiac]

vris clearly said priest

[hollow dock]

I was surprised at how I wasn't obese.

at the end of it all

[dim flower]

@serene zodiac Warriors had the hardest time leveling

That's the point I was making

[true matrix]

I think this discussion should have probably moved to #classic-wow some time ago

[hollow dock]

Priests couldn't level solo is the point I was making

[serene zodiac]

probably

[hollow dock]

Probably but ya know

[serene zodiac]

that's what I was trying to piggyback off of

[hollow dock]

we go offtopic for the lulz

[dim flower]

Move back to game mechanics?

Or just

end it here because in the span of all of this.

It's kind of opinion based.

[serene zodiac]

bwonsamdi's voice is sexy, discuss

[hollow dock]

Its just different philosophies

[ruby star]

@strange falcon OI

Give me popcorn too

Salted popcorn

[hollow dock]

arguments over guys

[dim flower]

Do you like dungeons where you look around and see all the pretty things, or do you like dungeons where you smash through it and get loot? Do you like classes having certain benefits over others, or not?

So in the end.

Eh.

It's all opinion.

[hollow dock]

I mean

I enjoy all of that stuff on live

because that's just my gameplay style and that of my guild

Like we wiped a lot on star augur because we had to take in that amazing skybox

[serene zodiac]

it was a very nice skybox

[dim flower]

lmao yeah the dungeons are pretty awesome in aesthetic but I mean

I guess what I meant more was like.

[hollow dock]

exploring to find your way?

[dim flower]

Yeah

I guess

[hollow dock]

Doesn't that already not exist

since you already know the way tog o

so you wouldn't need to explore today

[serene zodiac]

/flashbacks to sunken temple

[dim flower]

Ehhhhhhh

Sunken Temple is a nightmare yeah

Take Blackrock Depths though

[serene zodiac]

I loved it once I figured out the layout

[dim flower]

There's so much to it, you're not gonna get another one probs.

But stuff like the Court of Stars disguise boss.

[serene zodiac]

but they used to be raids

[hollow dock]

yea in that sense

[dim flower]

That was pretty good.

[hollow dock]

but after a few runs of the place, you kinda figure it all out

and that can never be replicated

unless you remove your memories

[dim flower]

Yeye, no, it can't.

But it can for new players.

I hope a lot of Legion players try it out since Classic is a whole new game.

[serene zodiac]

everything is a learning experience for new pkayers

[hollow dock]

in which that happens for new players today. Like at the start of legion I introduced the love of my life to my second love of my life

[serene zodiac]

don't need complex dungeons for that

[dim flower]

Hehe, yeah.

Well no.

[hollow dock]

and she took so much time to get out of teldrassil because she just explored every corner of it

[dim flower]

But it's probably just the way Vanilla was.

It's a lot better for new players imo

Not in terms of easy mode.

[true matrix]

HHHDFJJDKG

[hollow dock]

it was back then for the sole reason that we didn't have the internet as easily available

[serene zodiac]

I do it every expansion. I love going through the new zones and finding stufd

[hollow dock]

we didn't hav reliable sites like WoWhead

[strange falcon]

wow is the second love of your life,I thought it was the first vris

[hollow dock]

discord to easy reach people for help

[serene zodiac]

wow is my wife

[dim flower]

Here

Let me pop out a video

That explains my point better

[hollow dock]

I introduced my wife to my partner

[serene zodiac]

lmfao

[dim flower]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIju__zPuIk

Found it

[serene zodiac]

oh god

[dim flower]

The clickbait arrow?

Youtubers need money somehow.

[serene zodiac]

I have enough of a bad time running real dungeons in D&D with people I know

[dim flower]

I'm not the best at arguing.

lol

As you guys can tell.

Nobody really agreed with me.

[serene zodiac]

idk this is really just an opinion argument

[dim flower]

Might be me being a rando and you guys being more known in the community but /shrug

Ye it is

[frigid umbra]

Wow.. debates for miles. Lets just settle this by saying some people have dif tastes and some can like more things then others can or want... aka vanilla only, current wow only, and both types of wow. No one needs to be convinced of anything... just try it and decide for yourself, as with any game for that matter.

[dim flower]

Yeye

We agreed on that.

[serene zodiac]

anyway

[dim flower]

I guess I'm just

REALLY against the ideas that Vanilla design was absolute trash.

And there was hardly any good to it.

[serene zodiac]

you keep throwing out those hooks

[dim flower]

?

Nobody said that exactly.

But everybody always says that

(Exaggeration)

[serene zodiac]

you're wording things in a way that makes people want to argue against it

is what I'm saying

[dim flower]

Ohhh

Maybe

idk

I just say what I think.

[frigid umbra]

Vanilla had very good design... for that to be honest. Maybe we could see a resurgence of that style of gameplay... but it will most def not have the same impact as back then.

[dim flower]

Maybe I'm not the best at getting that across.

That's what I'd hope for Alexx

[frigid umbra]

For thay time*

[dim flower]

In fact.

[frigid umbra]

That* .... piece of shit phone keuboarf

[dim flower]

lmao it's alright

[serene zodiac]

lmfao

I feel you

[dim flower]

I'd rather have no legacy servers if the game had a similar design to the old version.

If that shows my goggles aren't rose-tinted

Although btw Gat

Pallies were actually really good.

[serene zodiac]

/shrug

[dim flower]

Not the best tanks, but they had a hell of a lot of buffs and were powerful in pvp.

So they always got some raid slots.

Just thought you'd like to know.

[serene zodiac]

I'm not talking vanilla anymore

[dim flower]

It's fine.

I just don't want you to think that since it's kinda not true.

[serene zodiac]

anyway

[frigid umbra]

Pally power 😂 👌 👀

Reroll healing or gkick 😂

[dim flower]

lmao

Pallies were fuckin lootwhores dude.

They took my Blackstone Ring D:

[frigid umbra]

I know... will main a pally when classic launces

And with a rogue alt

[dim flower]

I'm maining lock for some quick cash and leveling.

Locky's gonna be a big Alchy boy

[frigid umbra]

But we should really stop talking classic here or take it to the classic channel

[dim flower]

You're right.

I talk too much 👌

I'll shut up

[frigid umbra]

No its fine... just do it the propper chat tab

[dim flower]

Yeye

I just think I'll save my excitement for the next

year and a half

[frigid umbra]

Yeap.. classic is ways of... most likely year +.... no point is waising the hype now

[dim flower]

yepyep

[frigid umbra]

Blizzcon will most likely be the first news

For anything new to come

[dim flower]

They really don't like talking about it

[frigid umbra]

I really think the dont have much of anything now... coding a stable server takes time... only after that they need to figure actual spells raids classes etc... so no point in talking cuz most are not interested in server making coding.

[uncut vault]

https://gyazo.com/136298354186b830dbb7b5eeb63e7e55

morally grey

[frigid umbra]

Lol

Run away...

[hollow dock]

Horde isn't the bad guys

[uncut vault]

they added a few more events to brennadam

orcish suicide bombers now

[dim flower]

The Horde isn't...

Sylvannas's Horde is tho

BTW

Is anyone else lagging really hard on beta?

Or any latency issues?

[serene zodiac]

blizz is trying very hard to make the horde the bad guys

[dim flower]

As long as Saurfang is alive, you can't really have a bad Horde :P

Or I mean

[serene zodiac]

Saurfang abandoned the horde tho

[dim flower]

Until Saurfang joins the Alliance...if that even happens.

Why is Saurfang not Warchief yet?

He should've been back in MoP tbh

[serene zodiac]

because he didn't want to be

[dim flower]

Did he really decline it?

[serene zodiac]

he made it clear from the get go he didn't want to be in charge

so he was never considered

[dim flower]

What'd he do?

[serene zodiac]

he's always been just the high overlord

[terse patrol]

Saurfang isn't joining the Alliance.

[serene zodiac]

he's a support personality anyway

[dim flower]

But like how did he make it clear?

Because he did lead us into AQ so I mean, I want to know.

[terse patrol]

More than likely, he's forming the Might of Azeroth, a global version of his Might of Kalimdor faction he lead when fighting C'thun.

While the world wants to fight each other, he chooses to fight the Old Gods.

[serene zodiac]

he was just executing the Warchief's will at AQ

he has been to the Warchiefs what Nathanos is to Sylvanas

[dim flower]

Yeye

[terse patrol]

Saurfang is one of the only characters who lead both Alliance and Horde armies at once.

[dim flower]

Indeed

[serene zodiac]

I don't see him taking full responsibility for the horde at any point though.

[dim flower]

I just hope Saurfang stops being the second hand sometime soon.

[hollow dock]

He's a warrior

[dim flower]

Anything to up his position would be nice.

[hollow dock]

not a leader

IMO

[serene zodiac]

he's definitely goal-oriented

[dim flower]

He led us into AQ though.

So he's been a leader.

[hollow dock]

by the Warchiefs decree

[serene zodiac]

he's not long term leader material tho

[dim flower]

Yes, but he was the one calling the shots in Silithus.

[hollow dock]

Leading an army is alot different to leading a nation

[serene zodiac]

because he had a set goal to fulfill

[dim flower]

Ehhh no but

What else besides the army is there for him to lead as Warchief.

[serene zodiac]

he's a warrior, not a diplomat

[dim flower]

He's a Warchief.

[hollow dock]

uh

the restof the horde?

[dim flower]

Warchief.

[hollow dock]

like Thrall did

[serene zodiac]

we've had a warrior warchief, look what happened

[hollow dock]

like Vol'jin did

[dim flower]

Thrall was pretty sweet.

Garrosh was great shush.

He was just misunderstood.

[hollow dock]

Garrosh was good

until he went all

old god

[dim flower]

Ye

His thirst for power kinda.

[hollow dock]

at the start of mop

[dim flower]

Killed it.

[serene zodiac]

garrosh had good potential

[dim flower]

Garrosh was great at first tho

[hollow dock]

Oh yea he was

told off sylvanas

[serene zodiac]

but blizz decided he was gonna be evil and just let him languish

[hollow dock]

took control of thralls loose horde

[dim flower]

And if Saurfang was the leader.

I could see him combining Azeroth.

[hollow dock]

I dont think he'd do better.

[dim flower]

Into one force.

[hollow dock]

or worse

and he's not a diplomat to do that

[serene zodiac]

Saurfang isn't diplomatic though

[hollow dock]

and the horde has to contest the Vindicaar

with no way to combat it

[dim flower]

The Vindicaar?

That's an Alliance vessel?

[hollow dock]

yes

[serene zodiac]

he wouldn't be willing to deal with the intricacies of making sure everyone plays nice with each other

[dim flower]

Then why is my Tauren on it?

I always saw them as a neutral force.

[hollow dock]

Turalyon, leader of the Army of Light and High Exarch pledged the entire Army of the Light to the alliance

[dim flower]

Well shit.

[hollow dock]

that's the ending of the Lightforged recruitment

[serene zodiac]

yeah

[dim flower]

Welp.

Yeah, Saurfang's one to throw warriors at a vessel.

[serene zodiac]

the alliance right now is technically the stronger military force

[dim flower]

Like the Vindicaar.

[hollow dock]

and even if we dont use the vindicaar, we have lightforged war machines

which can take out Legion Dreadnaughts on their own

[dim flower]

Alliance OP

Blizz pls Nerf

[hollow dock]

oh they did

we dont use all our tools

[dim flower]

Blizz pls nerf more.

[hollow dock]

but you guys do

[dim flower]

True

We bombed Theramore.

And that was like

[serene zodiac]

that was shitty

[hollow dock]

you guys are using blight

btw

[dim flower]

Our pinnacle

Blight is eh

[hollow dock]

your tauren is OK with blighting alliance personal

[serene zodiac]

you didn't just bomb theramore

[dim flower]

No he isn't.

My Tauren follows my ideals.

[hollow dock]

According to the scenario

oh yea you tauren are OK with it

[serene zodiac]

you literally wiped it from every single timeline in existence

[dim flower]

I miss Theramore...

[hollow dock]

go talk to the dragon

and you can see it again

[dim flower]

Yeye

Speaking of which

@serene zodiac How does that work

[serene zodiac]

it was a mana bomb

[dim flower]

Nonononononono

[serene zodiac]

it was magic

[dim flower]

How can we see it thanks to the Bronze dragonflight.

If it's not in any timelines

🤔

Plothole?

[serene zodiac]

because our past still exists

[rapid berry]

Does anyone knows where to do wolves for the den quest (horde side)

[dim flower]

Oh you meant like for the future of our timelines.

[rapid berry]

I cant find anywhere

[dim flower]

So it's in our timelines.

But in its past.

[serene zodiac]

but theramore was destroyed at that same point for every alternate reality

[dim flower]

@rapid berry No clue sorry

[hollow dock]

except

for WoD's timeline

cuz no horde

[serene zodiac]

so jaina's anger is very reasonable, considering

[rapid berry]

@dim flower no worries google neither 😄

[hollow dock]

no horde hit that azeroth

[dim flower]

Hehe

[hollow dock]

so theramore doesn't even exist

[dim flower]

True

[serene zodiac]

Azeroth would still exist in that timeline

[dim flower]

We wouldn't have Theramore if it wasn't for The Horde being there.

[hollow dock]

theramore wouldn't

vuz the horde never invaded

they stayed on Dreanor

[dim flower]

And we wouldn't have to build Theramore.

[hollow dock]

with no legion infected horde

[dim flower]

Right.

[serene zodiac]

we just never went there bc garrosh diverted the dark portal to OUR azeroth

[hollow dock]

to move em to Azeroth for the invasion.

ye

there's like

[serene zodiac]

doesn't mean theramore wouldn't be built

[hollow dock]

a slew of High elves just sitting there

Theramore was only built because of the third war.

No horde? no third war.

[dim flower]

To intercept le Horde.

[serene zodiac]

okay, that point on Azeroth was obliterated, happy? lmao

[dim flower]

We need that pretty pretty presence.

[hollow dock]

By who tho

there's no horde to obliterate it

high elves are in the alliance

[dim flower]

Is there a timeline where the Sundering just didn't happen?

Can we get access to that?

[hollow dock]

Oh the sundering happened there

[dim flower]

Please?

[serene zodiac]

no bc the legion is omnipresent

[dim flower]

C'mon Blizz, you can do it.

You think so?

[hollow dock]

It 100% is

[serene zodiac]

it's canon

[hollow dock]

blizzard said that the Legion is 1

[dim flower]

Darn.

[hollow dock]

and it pierces all timelines

from the Nether

[dim flower]

So

No Old Azeroth

[serene zodiac]

the mana bomb also pierced all timelines iirc

[dim flower]

ever

[hollow dock]

So all events up to a certain point all happened

[dim flower]

Except for the Emerald Dream

[hollow dock]

It never did Gat

[dim flower]

Is that why they attacked the Emerald Dream?

[hollow dock]

there's no possible way for that to happen

nah that's the old gods

not the legion

[dim flower]

No, because if that was the case.

Jaina would've died.

[serene zodiac]

jaina wasn't there at the time

[dim flower]

No she was

She used a portal though

To escape the explosion iirc

Or something

idk

[serene zodiac]

then why would she die

[hollow dock]

Rhonin tossed her into a portal

[dim flower]

oh yeah

That

[serene zodiac]

rhonin died tho

[dim flower]

Okay

Jaina wouldn't have died

[serene zodiac]

rip rhonin

[dim flower]

rip rhonin

Actually no

[serene zodiac]

f

[hollow dock]

not really

[dim flower]

Good thing he died.

[hollow dock]

he's shit

[dim flower]

I don't miss him

[serene zodiac]

lmao

[hollow dock]

he speaks to raptors

he's as lulsy as lulsy characters go

[serene zodiac]

let the crazy mage have his quirks

[hollow dock]

because he was a knaak character

knaak needs to beremoved

last one is Vereesa

she needs to die next

[serene zodiac]

pls

[dim flower]

CITIZENS OF DALARAN

[hollow dock]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[dim flower]

LMAO

[serene zodiac]

lmfaoooo

[dim flower]

Easily the best speech in WoW

[serene zodiac]

nuh uh, horde side deathbringer Saurfang death rp

WE CALLED HIM DRAENOSH

[dim flower]

Jaina one was good too, not as good as any of Saurfang's tho

The one in Dalaran

When she talked to Anduin

[serene zodiac]

oh yeah

I'm looking forward to some kind of ridiculous speech at some point in bfa

[dim flower]

CITIZENS OF KUL'TIRAS

nah nah but

Jaina needs redemption this expansion.

She's too good a character to be thrown out because of madness.

[serene zodiac]

from what?

she's fine

[dim flower]

oof

You're the only person I've ever met to not hate Jaina tbh

[serene zodiac]

she's justifiably angry at the horde

her city was destroyed, her mentor killed, dalaran was a close shave

[dim flower]

All she ever wanted to do was study.

[serene zodiac]

yeah

she's not a bad character at all

but people don't like angry women

[dim flower]

I guess she needs a little bit of redemption for her rash actions.

Can somebody tell me why she was imprisoned in Kul'Tiras, I don't remember

[hollow dock]

Even worse Gat

and this is something everyone forgets

she lost her first apprentice

A friend. A charge. She promised to her parents she'd be fine.

[serene zodiac]

ah yeah

[hollow dock]

she wouldn't even see war.

[dim flower]

She murdered her own father tho man

[serene zodiac]

she's lost everything to the horde

[dim flower]

For peace

[hollow dock]

She didn't do it

[dim flower]

And she gets bombed by them

[true matrix]

she's traumatised and tired and she's given the horde what I would think are more than enough chances at peace before finally breaking but apparently women aren't allowed to be like that

[hollow dock]

she got the horde to do it for them

[dim flower]

Oh

Well in the end, it was her who decided he should die.

She could've stoped them.

[hollow dock]

she tries to tho

[dim flower]

Then I guess I'm easily influenced by other people.

[hollow dock]

As you get there as Rexxar and Thrall Jaina is trying a last hailmary to disuade Daelin

[dim flower]

I need to read more into Jaina.

[hollow dock]

Play WC3

[dim flower]

I got to the Belf campaign

Might just watch a lets play of the rest

Kinda tired of doing long WC3 games for lore.

[hollow dock]

As the horde gets there, he puts together that Jaina let em slip in and as a last resort, she steps aside.

[serene zodiac]

just turn on cheats

[dim flower]

Dude I fuckin loved Jaina

In the Stormwind raid.

[serene zodiac]

she's had to make tough decisions and people give her shit for having been traumatized by them

it's really unfair

[dim flower]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYwAz7xFVNg

I totally am not in love with that machinima

Or anything

It's not the best, but it's cute.

[serene zodiac]

I really liked the start of the kultiran story with her basically accepting her punishments with grace and understanding

[dim flower]

Used to have this as a pfp

@serene zodiac Why did she get imprisoned by them again?

[serene zodiac]

because her mother has labeled her a traitor

[dim flower]

For what?

Exactly?

Just because?

[serene zodiac]

I haven't played far enough through on alliance side

[dim flower]

Ah so it's just one of her crimes.

[serene zodiac]

but probably for the death of her father and conspiring with the horde

[dim flower]

That's what I was guessing.

[serene zodiac]

abandoning her people

[dim flower]

What exactly is happening with the Horde btw?

[serene zodiac]

etc

[dim flower]

And the Drustvar campaign?

Like it seems like Kul'tirans helped the Horde break in.

[serene zodiac]

kultiras is kind of a mess atm

so I wouldn't be surprisef

[dim flower]

Aight

Cuz we went in and the guy was like

"Tell me more about this Horde"

And one of the captains was alright with us attacking or something.

[serene zodiac]

four houses all vying for power against each other, making the common man suffer

[dim flower]

I wasn't really paying attention, was trying to skip to 120 so I could test the raid content and such.

oof

And the goal is to get them to unite under one Kul'Tiras banner?

[serene zodiac]

for the alliance yeah

[dim flower]

Or Alliance banner yeah you're right

Forgot about that.

[serene zodiac]

I don't really want to spoil it too much on the alliance side since I have to do it anyway

[dim flower]

Fair nuff.

[serene zodiac]

I've been focusing on the horde insofar

[dim flower]

I just got finished with a bit of the Alliance side.

And Beta is too laggy for me so

It's been hard.

80 ms my ass.

[serene zodiac]

at least spoil the actual zones. it's tough for me to level twice

[dim flower]

I can focus on my pally if ya want me to lol

[serene zodiac]

lmfao

[dim flower]

I've only done like half of Vol'dun

For Horde

And that's it.

Leveling is way easier in terms of exp gain.

I'm 115

[serene zodiac]

vol'dun is bugged anyway

[dim flower]

Is it?

[serene zodiac]

there's two quest lines that can't be finished

[dim flower]

It's got delete me squares and incomplete skyboxes.

Oh yeah

That's true

The unkillable boss guy

[serene zodiac]

and the one that despawns

[dim flower]

Which one is that?

[serene zodiac]

uhhh

[dim flower]

I might just not remember lol

[serene zodiac]

after dealing with the faithless

[dim flower]

Oh yeah

Haven't done that yet

[serene zodiac]

yeah when you go to kill the emperor or w/e, he's bugged

despawns after you kill him, so the RP doesn't happeb

so you don't get credit

[dim flower]

huh

weird

Akunda is the best part of BFA for me so far.

[serene zodiac]

fall of an emperor or whatever the quest is called

[dim flower]

Aight

I'll make sure to report it.

Once I get to it.

[serene zodiac]

Akunda the Serene

[dim flower]

I was Akunda the Courageous

[serene zodiac]

I liked the Akunda buff.

[dim flower]

Ima just do my normal name next time.

[serene zodiac]

"You are Akunda"

you can't

I tried

[dim flower]

What happens?

[serene zodiac]

he just says "you may want to rethink that"

or something to that effect

[dim flower]

They should just make your name something stupid like

[serene zodiac]

Akunda the [playername]

[dim flower]

"Akunda the Slayer of Stupid, Incompetent and Disappointing Minions"

Or that yeah

I was going to say that but

While I was typing that I remembered [playername], Slayer of Stupid, Incompetent and Disappointing Minions

[serene zodiac]

it's a fun title

the quest line I really liked in vol'dun was the gold tusk inn

[dim flower]

I think my favorite quest line was the pirate one

Purely because of the debuffs on the island.

You can get like an HD noggenfogger effect.

[serene zodiac]

the captain is a bitch though

[dim flower]

Well he's fuckin double dead now.

No worries there.

[serene zodiac]

I would have liked a warning that he was an elite I'd be getting no npc help with BEFORE I hit the gong

the debuffs didn't help. he was doing 30% more damage to me

[dim flower]

Luckily for me, there were 2 guys there already.

Oh no I meant this hold on

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/406285497846071306/442014253638090772/unknown.png

[serene zodiac]

yeah the cursed treasure was great

I liked my pirate hat that gave me a undead parrot for a while

[dim flower]

Oof how'd ya get that?

[serene zodiac]

there's hats littering one of the areas there

I think it's by the front of the middle pier

[dim flower]

Ima check it out later

[serene zodiac]

there's also the drinks that give 1% hp/sec regen for 10 minutes

helps make the extra damage you take in that area more bearable

there's also treasure maps that you can grab that make gold coins randomly fly off you while you run

it's a fun spot

[true matrix]

@dim flower

[dim flower]

???

What was that for?

[serene zodiac]

the tiny pirate

[true matrix]

the screenshot... it's so small 😂

[dim flower]

Ohhhh

Yeye

I agree

Should’ve made it bigger

It’s just a small pirate :D

[serene zodiac]

I got to be a giant pirate

didn't take a ss tho

[dim flower]

There’s a nice pirate toy on the timeless isle

If you wanna go grab that

[serene zodiac]

also saw someone with the small and the big buff at the same time. they were normal sized, but they had like 280% move speed

[dim flower]

LMAO

[serene zodiac]

since the small gives 100% and the big gives 80%...and they stack

[dim flower]

Life Goals

Make a Druid
Go to Vashj’ir
profit

[serene zodiac]

oh and apparently bwonsamdi has class-specific lines he gives when you die

[hollow dock]

Yup. He chastises you no matter what

[serene zodiac]

since he replaced the spirit healer

idk, I think he hit on me

[dim flower]

All that armor didn’t help me ;-;

[dim flower]

;)

He’s insulting himself

[hollow dock]

Oh behave~

[dim flower]

Well I guess he’s a guy so

Maybe he’s not

[serene zodiac]

I think this implies I'm driving this bus

[dim flower]

Oof

[uncut vault]

for hunters he says "I don' think thats how feign death works"

[dim flower]

I shouldn’t assume

[serene zodiac]

bwonsamdi is a power bottom who knew

[dim flower]

You’re right

[serene zodiac]

that's hilarious porter

[dim flower]

imo

[hollow dock]

He has a dis for everyone

I love it

it's like Aurielon Sol in WoW.

[dim flower]

The priest artifact weapon should talk back to Bwonsamdi.

[serene zodiac]

bwonsamdi is legit my favorite character in bfa

[dim flower]

Since whispers still work in BFA xmog

[serene zodiac]

nice

spriests should be happy that they can still have their knaifu

[dim flower]

lmaooo

Haven’t heard that term used to describe it

[hollow dock]

Knaifu is the official name of it

it was in the Blizz April fools patch notes

[serene zodiac]

yup

[true matrix]

finally power bottoms get the representation they deserve

[dim flower]

Perfecto

[hollow dock]

It's transcended a community joke

it's become

canon

[serene zodiac]

bwonsamdi is a power bottom icon

[dim flower]

Wait

Good job

Thanks for waiting

[serene zodiac]

lmao

[dim flower]

So when do cinematics and the login screen come out

Because tbh

[hollow dock]

Like

[dim flower]

The login screen is the most important part of any expansion

[hollow dock]

At launch

more or less

[uncut vault]

login will come some time before launch but cinematics come out only with the launch patch

[dim flower]

Alright

I’ve been dying to see it

[uncut vault]

we'll see the new music and login screen some time in mid-late beta

[dim flower]

Any speculation on PTR access and prepatch?

[hollow dock]

Within the next week or two supposedly

[uncut vault]

ptr comes out soon ™

[dim flower]

Sweet

Ty for le info :D

[meager warren]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8hekuz/nice_one_blizzard/
i love it

[meager warren]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8hgoyd/beta_test_dark_legacy_comics_631/

[terse patrol]

When anyone says there is no Horde bias at Blizzard, I invite you to go look up Blizzcon 2011. 😉

live band literally telling alliance players to die, along with homophobic slurs

[thick violet]

lolwut

[terse patrol]

alliance attendees assaulted by horde players

yeah it was a shitshow

[uncut vault]

obviously

[meager warren]

Just go as a panda and you'll get attacked by both sides.
If not physically, verbally.

everybody hates pandas for some reason

[terse patrol]

I’m partially sure they hired Christie Golden because most of the writing staff are Horde players.

And she’s Alliance leaning.

It feels like BFA might be Blizzard attempting to get ~some~ goodwill back with Alliance players. But we’ll see.

[meager warren]

one of her favorite characters is Sylvanas tho

[terse patrol]

They promised we’d get our fistpump moment this expac.

[meager warren]

so that sucks

[uncut vault]

shame they havent attempted to get back the goodwill of the other end of the 2011 fiasco

or any goodwill at all

[terse patrol]

yeh

They mostly ignored 2011.

If 2011 happened today, with the homophobic slur shit, hell would have been raised.

“oh, we didnt expect anyone to take it seriously lmao”

[uncut vault]

And Christie certainly doesnt help in that regard, so despite having a bit more faith in alliance storytelling now, I dont really have any more for representation in game

[terse patrol]

ye

but yeah

Anyone who knows WoW history knows the Horde bias. But for some reason, people still deny it.

[rich apex]

Garrosh tho

[terse patrol]

Like, MoP was a big Horde expac. People say it isn’t because we fight Garrosh, but that’s the thing. It’s the Horde freeing themselves from a tyrant, and reinforcing their Thrall-given traditions.

It’s 100% Horde centric.

[rich apex]

The Horde are kind of shitty from Cata through most of MoP

Thanks to Garrosh

To go back to the current cry of 'what happened to the Horde's honor'

(Of course, Garrosh was a TRUE ORC, so I guess it was more okay back then to nuke Theramore)

[terse patrol]

Notice how in Legion, when the Alliance loses their leader, they’re thrown into a somber, mourning state for two patches. Meanwhile, “WE WILL AVENGE VOLJIN” on the Horde side.

[uncut vault]

I remember when they actually had plans in MoP for us to see varians development

instead all we got was 'WE AH WAISTIN TIEM!1"

[terse patrol]

lol

Oh yeah

I remember when someone asked about Maraad

And none of the devs on the panel knew who he was

I mean, he’s only the second most important Draenei

(Was)

[uncut vault]

RIP maraad, killed for literally no reason, for a character that doesnt matter

[terse patrol]

yerp

[rich apex]

I mean

I don't remember Maraad from outside of WoD

🤔

[terse patrol]

All the Horde deaths in WoD were alternate character deaths.

[rich apex]

Admittedly, races who aren't human have an issue with recurring characters

Aside from the faction leader

[terse patrol]

Alliance lost a handful of main universe characters

[rich apex]

But I wouldn't say Maraad and Taylor were main characters

[terse patrol]

@rich apex We first showed up as the Draenei rep during Wrath.

He lead the Draenei Alliance forces.

He*

[rich apex]

To Wowpediaaaa

I never knew Garona was his niece either

The more you know

(Or was in the Me'dan comic, so)

[terse patrol]

He’s the more pro-Alliance Draenei. Velen’s always been really neutral.

So, with him dead, we’re back to the Draenei being kinda

[meager warren]

he's no longer neutral in bfa tho

[terse patrol]

guess so

Least we got Lightforged willing to smack Hordies.

[meager warren]

Lightforged don't appear in any of the cinematics between Legion and BfA tho.
At least, not any of the ones that we've seen

[terse patrol]

none of the Allied races do

[rich apex]

I mean

How many gnomes appear

[terse patrol]

0

Gnomes get so shat on lmao

[rich apex]

Clearly gnomes are not longer part of the Alliance in significant number

🤔

[meager warren]

maybe we'll get a gnome allied race, only for them to get completely forgotten by blizzard as well

that'd be funny but also tragic

[rich apex]

That is the thing about Allied Races

You can have 8 (if not 10) new options

But lord knows there's not enough quests to go around to give them -all- in depth attention

[uncut vault]

I mean, even just tiny quests like the nightborne vs dark irons give a ton of character

[rich apex]

Oh for sure

And there certainly might be a short quest chain with Lightforged or Void Elves and so on

But that short quest chain was just that. A short quest chain.

[terse patrol]

Dark Irons are dwarves but better

So

Not surprising that they get a lot of quest time.

I mean, they did most of the dwarf stuff in Warlords.

[lean yew]

I can't wait to click on the allied race thing and have like a billion selections

I hope they don't just stop after bfa

[rich apex]

Srsly

[terse patrol]

They prolly wont

[lean yew]

It would be so stupid

[terse patrol]

But I worry about one thing.

[lean yew]

They have to be making bank

[rich apex]

There's still plenty of options

[terse patrol]

Parity.

[rich apex]

Especially if they do stop with the current 8

[lean yew]

I def think we'll see AT LEAST 2 more for each faction in bfa after kul'tiras/zandalari

[rich apex]

And save vulpera and others as the 9.0 pre order race

[meager warren]

i hope they don't stop with introducing entirely new races tho

[lean yew]

They prob will

[rich apex]

They'll have to eventually

[lean yew]

why make a new race when you can do way less work

lol

[rich apex]

There are still obvious Allied Race choices left

But not -that- many 😛

[lean yew]

Eh

[terse patrol]

Blizzard said they may not release two races at once at a certain point, instead giving one to one side, and not the other, in an uneven fashion. “Because we want to add them when lore dictates.”

[meager warren]

why make an allied race when you could do nothing? 🤔

[lean yew]

Yeah, but I doubt they're going to give horde three in a row

[terse patrol]

I can already feel the Horde getting more races already.

[lean yew]

and alli none

im sure they're going to give horde one

[rich apex]

Blizz says that

[lean yew]

then have to give alli one or else its going to be a shit show, obviously.

[rich apex]

But let's be real

[lean yew]

No I know