beta-ptr-spoilers

[glass fulcrum]

it isn't like higher res robes is gonna tank game performance

not that i know how it works, just dont get if you make an ultra HD model why not use it

[austere gazelle]

Is it me or are the crest upgrade bugged on live?

[dense plover]

Game can’t run with those super hd models

And it doesn’t need to

The updated models like what they did for arator are becoming the standard

[dense plover]

It’s bugged and this obviously isn’t the channel to ask

This isn’t the retail channel

[rain cave]

I do think the cinematic models would run in realtime as A player model. But keep in mind WoW is also on a decades old engine, and there are potentially hundreds of players and npcs in areas. Plus the game needs to run on lower end machines as that’s where a lot of the players are. Polygons are a cpu thing mostly, and WoW is already quite cpu reliant due to the number of things happening on screen

If the game was a single player rpg? Sure they could maybe rip the models but for an mmo? Especially on their engine? Not fit for purpose

Same reason they make some of the textures lower resolution after making them

[opaque pewter]

It's also not a matter of just swapping them. That is probably a model meant for animation and is not game rig ready

[rain cave]

also this

[warm topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGGpcoPEJY8

[deep pawn]

ooo, staccato piano and slurp noises?

[pulsar minnow]

now THAT is a main theme

This version of call to arms sounds so good

[autumn dagger]

oh the eversong woods music is so much different

but I like that they incorporated troll motifs and instruments now

brings cohesion to the zone

[desert latch]

Ayyy finally the OST

soo good

did they add in the cinematic theme?

[pulsar minnow]

holy

Harandar music is insane

sounds straight outta avatar

around 12 min in the main title soundtrack video for those curious

[desert latch]

damn no cinematic theme

from what I see

not sure if anyone else found it

[pulsar minnow]

itll most likely be in the official soundtrack when they release it on spotify etc...

But the ending part is Echoes of the Worldsoul from War Within

[desert latch]

hopefully they'll put it there

[deep pawn]

so many vocals in the World Soul Cradle medley.

Bard hopes rising

[elfin eagle]

I’m gonna be honest the eversong woods music didn’t hit hard for me

The other stuff is good, but the lack of cello hurts

Oh apparently it’s not the whole thing and there is the cello in it ❤️❤️❤️

[dense plover]

Looks like we have all of the music - 15+ hours

I’ll be diving into it in the next hour

Gonna look for the h versions of the tracks - those usually merge all the instruments

[dense plover]

ok - just getting into the music with the login music. Goddamn its 19 minutes long - literally the longest login track ever

the references to the TBC era music from these zones is awesome

this might be some of the best login music we have ever gotten

definitely the best since legion

[glass flicker]

I did like Through the Roof of the World. The Shadowlands track.

https://youtu.be/rRLMbGB2NVw?si=PFKcNHNsDLnJ_dZa

The theme that plays while you're dead followed by Warcraft Legends, it's awesome. I liked it.

[dense plover]

we havent had bad title music

but this one is crazy good

[deep pawn]

I wanna know what the hell is going on at like 14:00. It's nothing I've really heard before

[dense plover]

its either harandar or voidstorm

but its chaotic and fantastic

[deep pawn]

The cradle and the rift of aln aren't that chaotic so I'm thinking Voidstorm climax

The cradle theme is sad and hopeful feeling to me which makes sense

[desert latch]

Have a feeling it'll be easier to appreciate the different music tracks when playing through the expansion

[pulsar minnow]

Ok so Atal-Utek is our next patch zone neat

Holy shit Labyrinths are sick

[deep pawn]

I will say, I'm extremely disappointed in no story in .5s again

That pacing sucked so much in TWW

[uncut vault]

Void assaults will have some story at least

so it's not a total bubble of nothing happening in the current content zones like the anniversary interactions

[deep pawn]

Like Arathi assaults had story? Not holding out hope.

Blizzard needs to actually move the damn plot again in .5s

12.1.5 has the raid but that's it

12.1.5 is likely a return to the Xal plot after Troll Island

But yeah, season 2 before blizzcon, let's go

though RWF is gonna bump up real close to Blizzcon

[zealous sedge]

Season 3 in January/ February?

TLT fall of 27

[deep pawn]

if there's no an s4

there's some hints of s4 being possible

[dense plover]

surprised they didnt talk about isle of fangs since 12.1 is before blizzcon

guess we will get a video just about that sometime this spring

[little hound]

Because Isle of Fangs is still "Hush hush" and will probably be revealed

[deep pawn]

it's as damn secret as Undermine was lol

We literally have the warlock tier to spoil it

[uncut vault]

I figured they'd do a bit since it's not really a story spoiler for any of the rest of Midnight at all, setting-wise

even just a tease or a small zone preview

plus it'll be entirely out before blizzcon

[deep pawn]

I do think the 12.1.5 raid being main midnight story related to me tells me that Ula'tek has little to do with Xal

[little hound]

Xal's first wielder or one of the first ones, was a Troll. If she wanted anything in Ula'tek or anything to do with it? She'd have done it then.

[deep pawn]

I'm kinda on board for breadcrumb raid content between seasons

[pulsar minnow]

I mean

We know Kithix’s body is in Atal Utek

Right now she’s trying and failing to siege silvermoon so why not resurrect the giant kaiju next door

[deep pawn]

We have a good idea the raid ends with her and the army of light getting slurped down into the well and disappearing

so she might be gone for a year

[pulsar minnow]

Side note but I love how they won’t announce Atal Utek but showed concept art of the Labyrinth that clearly is in Atal Utek

[deep pawn]

Lol was it?

I mean it's not exactly a secret. Zul'aman literally ends with a post credits cliffhanger of the brother staring at the Island

[dense plover]

that concept art is actually old - its from Pre-TWW

it was done by a blizzard artist - they posted a few months ago about stuff that wasnt really used

[upper pasture]

i can't help but to think that necklace that holly wore means something, i cannot find anything online that matches so it makes me think it's unique for WoW

[dense plover]

or it could be something she had made for her and she just likes it

[upper pasture]

maybe

[dense plover]

lots of nicer jewelry is unique

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah I remember that. But it was different this is new stuff

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/oJoz3q

This is the unused stuff

[dense plover]

oh

ok

[deep pawn]

I don't know if Blizzard is deliberate or sloppy but there hasn't been a super shocking patch in a long time.

[upper pasture]

it's a side effect of knowing where the general patches are going

[pulsar minnow]

Labyrinths are a shocking feature in my eyes. Kinda wish they were a box feature

[dense plover]

its one, not multiple

its probably going to use torghast tech

which is good - that tech is pretty cool

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but looks like they’re gonna become a mainstay

But yeah you’re right either way if they’re treating like a once an expansion mega dungeon it woulda come out mid expac anyways

[upper pasture]

i'd 100% rather have a mega delve than turbo charged delves

turbo charged delves were a bit lack luster

[dense plover]

turbo charge wasnt bad

but very short lived with no long-term life

ideally this mega-delve stays relevant for the rest of the expac

[glass flicker]

Oooh.

This Longboi is a fun guy.

Wonder if they'll make it a 10m mount with an auction house, mailbox, transmogrifier, repair vendor, bank, guild bank, and talk like Ban-Lu while at it.

[glass fulcrum]

Imagine if they put the player on the head

sit on top lol

[glass flicker]

That'd be fun.

[rain cave]

Nah with that head I imagine it’ll be a trampoline

[glass flicker]

Oh no! Please don't embrace me like that!

In public.

[rain cave]

Too bad it’s not xalatath..,

[glass flicker]

Too bad it's not the void elemental possessing the elf corpse?

[harsh mason]

Yes

Well, there's still a chance that Xal was a mortal in the past.

[thin river]

OOHHH

maybe lich king part 2?

instead of getting mass rezed by Tirion, its alleria?

[deep pawn]

hmm, collector's edition has 12.1 spoilers

apparently it's just having Atal'ulek on the map

[dense plover]

tbf, the isle of fangs was essentially guaranteed from alpha 1

its all but announced

[dense plover]

do you have a link to this though?

i would love to see what it looks like

[deep pawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1qyfdd8/i_had_the_opportunity_to_interview_jay_hwang_and/ This thread, content creator interviewed some devs and has his collector's edition already and says it spoils something

[dense plover]

ah ok

so no pics yet

[deep pawn]

Portergauge shared some Amani concept art that looks to be Zul'jin using some shadow magic

https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2019739534964015104/vid/avc1/1920x1080/YpG5q7wH8lqLmFei.mp4 I actually like this ad. Also love that the elf has actually glowing eyes in CGI

It can be done.

[dense plover]

its a good ad

i think the glow was removed from the fancy cinematic for some reason

it reads like it was supposed to be there

my best guess is it looked worse so they decided to remove it

[deep pawn]

I believe they said it was so emotions could be read properly

But I just point to the fact they managed to make Locus Walker, a faceless character, convey emotion

So that interview says nothing to announce regarding Elven paladins in the Alliance but the door isn't closed.

I mean they have to add Velf Paladins eventually

[dense plover]

different style of cinematic, not a fair comparison

[dense plover]

they need to add a horde DH (probably nightborne) first

hopefully they add void DH eyes as well

[deep pawn]

They've implied that it may not be a DH for Horde

but that we'd get a good idea early on what the next Horde Race/Class combo is

I'm still rooting for Blood Elf druid.

[dense plover]

seems more likely with the new lynxes in eversong

not sure what bear form or moonkin or flight would be

maybe a dragonhawk for flight?

we just got a new druid race with haranir tho

feels like DH and pally make the most sense right now

horde is still short 2 paladin races compared to alliance

and now they also have an extra DH race

[deep pawn]

If we get Paladin expansion it will be Paladins to all.

[dense plover]

i mean, troll would be fitting for this expac imo

dracthyr might also make sense

[deep pawn]

they've promised every class to every races except the obvious race locked ones of DH and Evoker.

Paladin, Shaman, and Druid just take extra artwork

Paladin lore is already set with Tyr's Guard.

[dense plover]

well its also that shaman and paladin have always been tilted to horde and alliance respectively

makes a bit of sense regarding the actual classic game

[deep pawn]

that's not why it hasn't happened yet

[dense plover]

not much lore sense at this point

[deep pawn]

it's just a matter of making divine steeds and totems

and getting approval to spend artwork time on that

Like it's a hard sell to dedicate time to mechagnome divine steeds and totems

[dense plover]

there is definitely an intention tho - 2 extra alliance races have paladin, 4 extra horde races have shaman - its not an accident. If it was just about art, there wouldnt be so many in each direction

tho tbf, 2 of those are neutral races for shaman

and 1 for paladin (earthen)

[deep pawn]

Kul Tiran Shaman prove they can make reasoning for any race to decide to commune with the elementals and ancestors, but it's a matter of art

[dense plover]

do they?

tide sages were a large part of the story

it wasnt out of nowhere

[deep pawn]

Tide Sages are half priest, half shaman, honestly relatively weak Shaman origins

[dense plover]

they literally commune with the elements

[deep pawn]

No ancestors, no direct communion with elemental spirits that we know of.

[dense plover]

just like how midnight lays out trolls as paladins by mentioning Gral as a light loa

[dense plover]

shaman has always been elements first

[deep pawn]

The Sea Mother is either some aspect of Azeroth/The Light or was just Azshara all the time.

[dense plover]

fucking goblins can be shamans - it has nothing to do with ancestors

[dense plover]

this is just you making something up - there is no evidence of this

they clearly commune with the elementals

its part of the main story

we literally see them summon various elementals

thats the tie to shamanism as far as the gameplay requirements go

[deep pawn]

Mages summon elementals too lol.

[dense plover]

not anymore

[deep pawn]

Yes they do

Do you even play the game anymore?

[dense plover]

theyve been intentionally phasing that out

dont frost mages not even get a permanent elemental now?

[deep pawn]

they added it back

[dense plover]

they did?

[deep pawn]

But even in TWW it was summoned during Icy Veins

[dense plover]

i dont touch frost mage so i wasnt aware

i still wouldnt consider 'summons one elemental in combat' the same as 'story showing a culture of calling on elementals and asking for their aid'

[deep pawn]

The entire Farseer hero tree for shaman is all about ancestors and their rez is based off ancestors, and resto is full of ancestor talents haha

[dense plover]

but thats not the only focus culturally as far as what races are shamans

it can include that, but it always includes communing with the elements

there are shaman story elements for a bunch of races that dont focus on their ancestors, while there are no shaman stories that dont include communing with the elements

[deep pawn]

Tidesages are literally an amalgam of Priest, Shaman, Mage, but a bigger focus on the priest aspects, but if a single connection to the elements in a religious fashion is enough to justify the entire Shaman class, they can add the Earthen Ring teaching anyone.

[dense plover]

paladin is similar in that regard in that its about communing with the light, and we havent seen that for horde much because its not a significant part of horde culture. Stormwind literally has a church of the light in the center, meanwhile ogrimmar has the valley of spirits and the valley of honor

there is essentially no presence of the light in Orgrimmar

the capitol of midnight being silvermoon and the sunwell puts a big focus on that - i see them slowly expanding paladins, not just giving it to everyone at once

[deep pawn]

that'd be a stupid way to do it after they've promised adding paladins to all races once they make the lore for it and they already have.

They even added a Velf Paladin to show wielding the light while void corrupted is possible.

[dense plover]

but they havent given a lore reason for all of them

reminder that void elves WERE sindorei - they have experience wielding the light

[deep pawn]

Did you skip the Tyr's Guard reformation questline where they literally welcomed anyone willing to fight and learn?

[dense plover]

imo the ones that immediately make sense during midnight are dracthyr and troll

[deep pawn]

Which is exactly how they ended up justifying the warlock expansion?

[dense plover]

yeah but they arent exactly going to each race's capitol and recruiting them

tbf, being a warlock doesnt require any sort of belief in anything

it sort of requires no conscience but you dont have to find the fel/void

[deep pawn]

They still had to create some lore as to why the Lightforged would do it and they did lol.

[dense plover]

still dont love that - just like i dont love worgen monks

[deep pawn]

So the justification of paladins for all already exists, its just a question of when do they sit down and make all the horses.

[dense plover]

well - not horses for one

highmountain would be a moose, mechagnome would probably be a mechanical walker of some kind, same with gnome being one of those bird walker things

that kind of thing

haranir shouldnt get paladin though

theyre pretty vehemently anti-light

[deep pawn]

What are their priests then?

[dense plover]

followers of azeroth/the world soul i would assume, not sure priest makes a ton of sense either

[rain cave]

The real explanation is art resources not lore

At this point

They probably will give everyone paladin in this xpac

And shaman next xpac to fit the world theme

And once they have the art resources the way blizz do things they can’t just drop it in

It’s a combination of making it then lining it up with a patch

[deep pawn]

it's just Atal'utek yeah

[deep pawn]

I'm still hoping we get a sneaky Blood Elf Druid first haha

But yeah, paladins and shaman for all is way overdue.

I know it's getting approval to make art assets that'll barely get used like Mechagnome steed and totems.

[rain cave]

The longer we distance ourselves from bfa the more it feels like mechagnomes should have been a customisation option for gnomes like night warrior

Not sure if that’s a hot take but.. xD

[deep pawn]

it's not.

I don't hate the look of them like some, but even I can admit they were a failure of a race, gnomes are already low on popularity

Like... yeah

Given how much longer Mechagnome has been out over Earthen

[ember blaze]

anyone else upset they cut wrathion off the cinematic for dragonflight

he looks so good

if they got that far, would there be a chance to see him at some point in one 🤔

besides him, it's crazy that Jaina still hasn't shown up in one. imo way overdue for her too

[deep pawn]

There's so much desperation that 12.1 isn't Ula'tek haha

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like there's a way to make it match with the theme of midnight if they go the Kithix route but I'm not too confident

if it really is just trollmania in the middle of the Void expansion i'm gonna be really disappointed

[deep pawn]

Except we've already been told the Mindight story doesn't deal with the old gods and that Midnight focuses on the astral aspects of the Void

It could be they mean just launch cause launch is what they'll consider the "midnight patch" and the later patches are more separate but eh?

I think Ula'tek finishes the Amani and Zul'jan stories, and the 12.1.5 raid pivots us back to the "main plot"

Maybe Void infused Turalyon shows up and after we cleanse him he tells us the true end game.

We're getting a new dungeon in s2, but not a megadungeon so the Stratholme megadungeon idea is sadly dead

[pulsar minnow]

people found a tablet in beta already that mentioned kithix and ulatek together

i dont have the link but I remember seeing it

[deep pawn]

Kithix is buried under the temple.

but even if there's some old god stuff I highly doubt it'll be connected to Xal

They obviously want a green raid to break up the purples.

[elfin eagle]

It’s about light vs void

[pulsar minnow]

well yeah

[elfin eagle]

Troll mania leads directly into the oldest non titan civilization ( for ), leads to kith Ix, leads into vol Jin and the Loa

Etc etc

[pulsar minnow]

but thats not exactly light vs void.

I think the general idea is people want the light vs void expansion to get the same amount of screen time as the Legion did in the legion expansion

like yeah world soul saga but this has been a storyline people want to see done justice. but who knows maybe they want to conclude it in the Last Titan by making the Light vs void end up with a confrontation with like 4 pantheons rather than 2

like a battle of the five armies

[deep pawn]

Undermine was well received and that might be the biggest reason they're okay with sidquest season again

I'm not angry at Ula'tek, I think it could be fun, I do wish we wouldn't need a 1 boss raid to get us back on plot, but it's whatever

Having an unconnected third of an expansion just makes the main plot feel like it takes forever

Others just have too much hope for more of a Lordaeron revamp

At least whatever 12.2 will be should make more sense that K'aresh

[ember blaze]

idk if id want that

like yeah theres some connection to the main story... and the zone itself was really fun

but i wouldnt want that to be a regular thing either

[deep pawn]

You can't spend a third of an expansion on a b plot

[ember blaze]

if we're exploring side areas/plots that still tie to the main story, id rather do that in between major patches

tho maybe not if its gonna be on the "quality" level of the arathi highlands patch

[austere gazelle]

I think that the S2 will introduce a schism in the void ranks. A new contender will appears.

Ulatek, snake, serpent... Underwater dungeon spotted...

Enters Azshara.

( it was foretold in the song of the Depth that she would snatch the ultimate prize after the Harbinger complete the " awakening " )

The raid might very well end on Azshara making her grand entrance in the play

There could also be a giant plot involving Ula'thek not being alive anymore, and Kithix also gone, and Azshara playing role as Ulat'thek instead and taking her place

[rain cave]

I cannot see this expansion not having naga in it in some form despite what blizzard have said

Because the elf reunification story needs to involve them somehow if they want it to truly be that

[upper pasture]

did they all but confirm naga will be here cause the first video they released they were like "there's no naga, no where" then in the video there was literally a naga encampment?

[austere gazelle]

Maybe a case of red herring once again.. they are bad at it lol

[little hound]

There are Naga on the outskirts of Quel'thalas already.

[dense plover]

the naga are present but not particularly organized

this is very much a 'they exist but arent really relevant'

[austere gazelle]

they will be.

[dense plover]

i really dont think so

[pulsar minnow]

Well there’s Xal ataths origin story

https://youtu.be/rOVDY9Mrw3I?si=g1dwtsf8P5UCvJg-

[lone mantle]

A simple mortal.

[deep pawn]

who knows, they said the Naga wouldn't feature and not to expect to see Azshara any

[noble mica]

It’s weird

See this pattern each time planet gets destroyed like K’aresh now her planet before black empire. Like we got void eating up planets basically.

[dense plover]

thats literally what the void does

its not 'weird' its literally what it does

[pulsar minnow]

Void is all consuming, light all expanding

That’s their shtick

[noble mica]

Yeah but if they consumed her as she says then why she wanna consume us instead of fighting void

[austere gazelle]

I don't think she wants to consume us

The song of the tides states that her goal is to " complete the awakening " ( of Azeroth ? )

Which means that, maybe, she want to create / reset / refactor the universe in a more void friendly reality

[deep pawn]

She wants to consume Azeroth which would likely kill us.

But my long time stance is Ethereals are already functionally dead.

No growth, no death, no children.

They're fancy soul simulacrums

[noble mica]

Well at least their world soul is saved

[austere gazelle]

And I'm not sure Iridikron would have sided with her knowing she wanted to destroy everything, I think they are both aligned on the goal : shattering the titan's orderly timeline to something new

[deep pawn]

Iridikron isn't aligned with her at all. He just wants her to get the Titans attention which we know works

"I don't trust her, but I trust in the voids hunger."

[ember blaze]

Xal is my fav villain so far

I love the horror aspect to her animations

Glad they kept it since the ansurek one. Always fun to see!

[pulsar minnow]

Xal’Atath is all about survival

The void destroyed her world so she became one with it to survive

She orchestrated the death of Dimensius so now she has control of his power

She’s in charge of the void now

[worn crown]

I hate Xal. Boring. Uninspired. Think she is so great but we are not sure the real why. Babbling all the time. And very few interesting lines. Blizz wants to keep her mysterious and talking all the time. These things hardly work together.

It reminds me of the 180 degree turn from TBC (Ilidann briefly appears before his raid) to WRATH (Arthas appears everywhere to the point of becoming repetitive).

Also, Xal is not even show to be that smart in TWW. Alleria and Gallywix (unwillingly!!!) manage to postpone her plans.
Give me back Iridrikon. Or Jailer. Yeah, at least there was some aura of Mystery around him. I expect Xal to go "bwahahahah, I'm SO eviL" anytime soon.

[upper pasture]

“I hate Xal she’s so boring and mysterious, give me back the jailer at least he was mysterious” what?

[pulsar minnow]

As if the Jailer was any smarter than Xal

Jailer is basically just WoW’s “potential man” version of a villain. So much stuff they could’ve done right and just chose not to

[dense plover]

they really dont though - xalatath got exactly what she wanted

dimensius

also, you clearly have no taste in villains if you think the JAILER was better

iridikron did the same stuff Xal did - same writing team

sounds like you just dont like it and cant find a reason, which is fine, but you should probably keep that to yourself since you cant accurately articulate why besides it being your opinion

[noble mica]

Her survival lol 😂

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah

[royal sigil]

What if xal is actually a survival hunter and that is why alleria hates it so much cause she is marks, and all of xal’s pretend as a priest has paid off

Or void pally inc would be cool

[glass flicker]

SO! Question for my fellow lore nerds.

Did we ever learn what planet Sargeras destroyed here? Could it be Xal'atath's homeworld?

The Void fell upon her planet, turning all inhabitants to ghostly void entities, the Worldsoul doomed to become a Void Titan, until Sargeras stepped in and put a stop to that. But there was one survivor. Or something to that effect.

[plain violet]

I think it was hinted this world was Telogrus?

[glass flicker]

I would like to see where you got that from, look into it myself too. Not claiming you're wrong, I just want more info to support my own theories.

[austere gazelle]

not sure it's the case tbh.
And the Void Titan stuff has been debunked at this point. it was dreadlord propaganda.

Dimensius wanted only to consume and was already walking in reality , the goal of the void titan was to consume reality and to open reality for the void lords to consume.

1- Dimensius was already in reality and had no issue staying there apparently
2- He wanted to consume everything

So for now the void titan stuff, until clarification, can be put in the " Zovaal 2000 IQ plan machination " to turn Sargeras against his brethren

Looks more like Xal was probably a priest of some Lightforged order ( maybe the previous AotL ? ) and became spiteful of the Light because they did not help her world.

( Maybe she was part of the " one that came before the draenei " she spoke of while in the dagger )

[plain violet]

To respond to you and Rominet, it was hinted during the void elves recruitement questline!

And it's said by the void ethereal themselves that the world still scream for the titan that destroyed it.

But Telogrus being a void scarred world, I was "wait a minute...."

We do know too in Legion that Xal said draenei aren't the first pawns yeah, so maybe she is...

[glass flicker]

So maybe Xal'atath is from Telogrus, tying her nicely to Void Elf lore, given her rivalry with Alleria and the fact that she's a purple elf.

[plain violet]

Yeah if this was it, that would also explain why she could get here that easily when she attacked...

[glass flicker]

She had her hearthstone saved to Telogrus, of course!

[plain violet]

She's smart!

[glass flicker]

Though, the question remains.

It's just a theory. A game theory. That is, until Blizzard confirms or denies it.

[austere gazelle]

Yeah but her appearance is a stolen one if you remember, she's just a void wraith at this point, who body snatch

On another kind of stuff , the " Old Gods try to turn world soul into a dark titan " I believe it's false, the goal is more ... dire I'd say.

Like the titans, the void and the old gods are looking for the " Prime World Soul " , and I do believe that Azeroth, the Prime World Soul, is the nexus of creation. Whoemever controls it can change the course of time and reality.

So the Old gods were sent randomly across the cosmos to find it, and they found it, their goal is not to consume it or to turn her into a " dark titan " ( we now knows that Dark Titans are not a thing, since world soul can become Titan if infused with Order Magic, but can become other stuff if infused with other magic ) so Azeroth could be turn into a Void influenced creature that would remake reality as she is dreaming it, nightmarish and horrific.

That's exactly what is Azatoth in Lovecraft mythos. The Old god who slumbers and dream reality, if he awakes, reality ends.
The Goal of Xal is to awaken Azeroth, probably to shatter this Ordered reality and bring another kind of chaos into reality

[noble mica]

It’s Jeffrey’s job 😭

[rain cave]

Telogris also had a thing labelled voidstorm nearby, and its just a portion of that planet

So it’s still very possible that telogrus could be part of that planet and voidstorm is another

Afterall it was cut in two with a lot of shards everywhere

[plain violet]

Could be! Interesting to note...

[remote shuttle]

Voidstorm isn't an incomplete planet, from what we've seen - the penny I'll drop. And nor is it is the planet name; the voidstorm is what we dubbed it because the void-rift we call Voidstorm connects to that planet.

Voidstorm has an unending horizon; with occasional domanaar structures among its wastes. Unlike Telogrus'.. floating rock in space.

[rain cave]

yes

my point is that, say that your planet has been cut in half

and you're offered to save half of it in the void

the other half, and debris would still be floating aroud where that planet was ported out

and there could very well be a "voidstorm" around there

[remote shuttle]

Ah; Just found the name of the world voidstorm connects to.

[rain cave]

not sure if anyones discussed this but combined with the fact that everything looks ashy and burned, would it be fair to make a guess that xalatath's world was burned by the light?

would also explain why she's going for the sunwell

and the idea of "survival" against the order/light alliance

not to mention the very warm oranges of her original eyes and skin patterns, sort of evoking that light aesthetic

also obligatory

but yeah that pendant seems fairly explicit, considering we JUST had a faction introduced seemingly to explicitly foreshadow light tyranny and they have a similar logo plastered all over their bbanners and armour

also her words in the short that frame her motivation have interesting ramifications for some of her old legion quotes

specifically her idea of "our" just being anything that is void

the survival aspect is an interesting one

and it starts to explain why the void is so scared of death as a force

[royal sigil]

Pls spill beenz

[ember blaze]

Does that mean she has a means to invade the pantheon area

[zealous sedge]

Is it naive to think that Xal wanted access to the Pantheon for the desire of knowledge rather than conquer? Idk, the quote sounds like she isn’t trying to conquer the Titans, but merely learn from them. I feel like the void was an insect at one point that the titans rather’d to extinguish than cultivate because it was against order.

It feels like Blizz is setting her up for a redemption arc

I’m not saying I agree with it, though.

[wraith bloom]

would anyone know if / when the beta servers might be back up?

[little hound]

I thought the Beta was over, seeing as we're live in like.. 16 Days?

[wraith bloom]

i mean they did dungeon tuning just 5 days ago on it so

[upper pasture]

yeah beta is pretty much over, they should be all the other testing on the PTR when required.

[lone mantle]

[upper pasture]

clearly cannot be the same person that mural has hair!

[noble mica]

Dude that snake is ouroboros the same snake in cosmic chart of shadowlands

I think she just got chosen to finish job 😅

[upper pasture]

man, i so desperately want to see more of Xal's origins and their culture

[noble mica]

Same lol

[lone mantle]

The cycle must be preserved.

[austere gazelle]

Its probably Azeroth, the slumbering world soul, dreaming the Emerald dream ( or yoggy sleeping and spreading saronite )

[austere gazelle]

• My take is that her people were probably part of the ancient Army of the Light ( the one Sargeras thought was destroyed in the thousand years war novel )
• Maybe she was a lightforged ( as seen with the mark around her eyes ) , and the AotL lost the battle against dimensius and her world was reduced to ashes

Some speculate that her world is Telogrus, and that Telogrus and the voidstorm are one and the same ( on Telogrus rift apparently you got some indication that there is a voidstorm nearby )

[remote shuttle]

Basic summary

[royal sigil]

Awesome ty much

Revisit dolanaar confirmed?

[pulsar minnow]

Ngl that’s a really cool bit of world building

Love the idea that ||animals took over, evolved, and became king||

[little hound]

Explains why one of the raid bosses is a KAIJU

[deep pawn]

Ironically that's what happens on Pure Order Azeroth too

[deep pawn]

it's live

[little hound]

Gone now.

[noble mica]

I wonder who’s gonna be that stupid to buy that.

💀

[upper pasture]

So a hearhsteel equals a penny

[dense plover]

honestly - it could be way worse

the currency is the same price no matter how much you buy, and items arent priced at inbetween prices where you would have leftover currency

i dont like it - but it could be so much worse

it also means theyll HAVE to fix the housing storage cap, because if you cant buy furniture they cant make money

and it also doesnt give house xp, so you cant pay to skip the grind

[upper pasture]

i believe they said bought housing items don't take up space towards the cap

[dense plover]

hopefully we see furniture on the trading post in the future, so they could theoretically put shop items for ingame currency

[dense plover]

then why is there a cap?

[upper pasture]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dense plover]

whats to stop me spending $1000 and crashing a server?

[upper pasture]

hopefully spending the money that would require "crashing" the server is way beyond what a normal person would spend on the game

but i'd assuming normal housing items go towards the cap and the paid ones go to a secret uncapped tracking thing and are indenifited differently by the game for some reason. i really don't understand why housing items have a cap to begin with anyways

[white sedge]

Are people playing the beta? lol.. I just want to try out the new dungeons and the only dungeons people are doing are high keys.. I cant even find a group for normal dungeons

[royal sigil]

Play bdk and solo them

[remote shuttle]

There’s follower mode if you just want to see them.

[deep pawn]

They're going to test the expansion launch on Friday

but those haven't had major issues in the last few goes

[dense plover]

yeah but they havent had such a laggy intro in a long time

this intro is similar to the warlords issue

its a semi-phased thing that shoves everyone in the game into a pretty small area

this is 100% about seeing whats still broken with the midnight intro

since the fixes on beta havent been able to be stress tested since beta launched

also i would guess they want to test respawn rates and how laggy silvermoon gets after the intro

[upper pasture]

I might be bad at math but that crest change sucks, we go from getting 6 crest upgrades a week to 5? :/

[deep pawn]

some people whined you could gear too fast

the grind being made bigger is just trash

[upper pasture]

I mean ig if we are only have 6 track gear pieces it balances out?

And I suppose 5 upgrades a week means you can max an item a week which wasn’t possible before hand

Well it was, but it costed two different crest types

Assuming you get all your pieces at 1/6 you’d need 19 weeks and 20 extra to upgrade all of them. Of course that isn’t accounting for the crest cap removal

Oh no wait only 16 weeks, no nvm I’m stupid lol it is 1920

I wish they would do away with the limit. Like sure let us only get 100 a week but please please please let us trade up past the limit.

[deep pawn]

Woo, out of season leak post haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19LesCL7dus

[ember blaze]

cant believe housing is how we get more race representation in cinematics

[deep pawn]

haha

[ember blaze]

i still wanna see a gnome

[uncut vault]

one of the more obvious "just responding to existing datamining and community theory" posts I've seen, so I wouldn't be surprised if half of this is true lol

[deep pawn]

I mean troll island is a given at this point purely from datamining

It's possible they can fit a plaguelands revamp based on how early the Ula'tek zone was done

[deep pawn]

The only thing that scares me if it's real is if Blizzard really had the guts for a 6 boss tier.

The weekly mechanics changes feels like it wouldn't be that hard because of how people play this game.

I'm still holding out hope the labyrinth is Undercity

[harsh mason]

We had a tier 7 boss raid (Firelands)

They can do this, since technically there are 2 more bosses in 12.0.7 and 12.1.5.

[rain cave]

I have just noticed something very interesting

the way the xal is floating right in front of lor'thremar, whilst the void minions/dominar are specifically holding his people captive, pressing them to the floor not killing them you can see them struggle

it's quite similar

so makes me wonder if she was going to put a deal towards lorthremar here

[austere gazelle]

Labyrinth will be a new type of Delves. It may or not feature undercity, but its unlikely

This leak sounds almost likely. The 12.1.5 stratholme raid would probably make a foreshadowing of the Legion's return

[rain cave]

well, maybe not the "legion"

but probably denathrius using his dreadlords try garner a new group of demons

I'd imagine there would be an opposition/splinter group from them though of actual demons or eredar trying to keep things going without dreadlords

[deep pawn]

The leak says it's 12.1, not the 12.1.5 story raid, at least how I read it.

A Nathrezim raid also doesn't reconnect to the Xal plot really.

If I had to bet the 12.1.5 raid is Turalyon

[deep pawn]

You know as well as I do those won't be considered real parts of the tier

And most people presumed the mid patch bosses were extras, not in place of main progression bosses

A 6 boss race in August would be seen as meh

[remote shuttle]

Its a cute, quaint little attempt of a leak.

[austere gazelle]

the leak doesnt state any patches. My understanding , if it"s real , is that the supposed Eastern plagueland revamp would be our " siren isle content " with a raid coming with it. Instead of creating new zones they are probably revamping and updating existing one, like they did with siren isle ( which existed but was not implemented )
Save them tons of works.

[deep pawn]

Again, a Nathrezim plot to "get us back to the void" would make little sense and I'm telling you, a 6 boss tier would cause riots lol

[royal sigil]

You mean like riots like removing lots of addons and neutering class complexity?

[austere gazelle]

Siren island made little sense and had no bearing to TWW stuff
Future " one raid boss dungeon " in .5 patches are not planned to be part of the storyline as far as I've understood what they shown us

The tripod boss we will have in 12.0.5 is probably more related to haranir lore than the void plot

[deep pawn]

THEY LITERALLY SAID THE 12.1.5 RAID EXISTS TO REFOCUS US ON THE VOID PLOT

12.0.7 is outside the story

[austere gazelle]

Even if that's so, Alonsus Faol and Nathrezim can still connect to the Light / Void plot anyway

[deep pawn]

eh, I doubt it unless it's securing some sort of power source

12.0 ends with Xal being slurped

[austere gazelle]

We have yet to see the focus on the light they told us we will have for the moment

Alonsus Faol VS Dreadlord in Stratholme, the seat of Arthas' madness, is connected to the light so its somehow connected to the plot anyway

but lets stop discussins this " leak " that is probably wrong anyway

[dense plover]

that leak is 100% fake

uses way too many terms that we already know are true and theyve specifically said naga arent relevant this expac

like, multiple times they have said 'the naga wont play a part in midnight' and people have taken them having naga in parts of the zones as them lying when naga being present =/= part of the story

a dungeon would be part of the story

[deep pawn]

Eh... Floodgate was barely story relevant

[dense plover]

but it WAS relevant

it was part of the story

that leak is fake

theyre not going to do any major titan story stuff when 13.0 is titan focused

[deep pawn]

More likely the underwater dungeon is the murloc folks from TWW

[dense plover]

i dont think theres gonna be an underwater anything

[deep pawn]

the dungeon entrance is already visible in game

[dense plover]

imo the isle of fangs dungeon (if we get one) would be like, lower temple, like how they did tomb of sargeras and the dungeon attached to it

[dense plover]

link?

[deep pawn]

there's videos of the isle out there

[dense plover]

i dont remember seeing a dungeon entrance

found it

definitely looks unfinished

no dungeon stone

also no way they put a dungeon entrance underwater

theres also definitely no naga from the screenshots we have

just murlocs

[remote shuttle]

Simply put; they overreached in their lil fake leak and it makes everything suspect.

[deep pawn]

Plus the fact we've never had a 6 boss tier lol.

[upper pasture]

Looks more like a teleport portal from a mage than a dungeon portal

[deep pawn]

The Kobyss plot and undersea are hanging threads still.

[dense plover]

i dont see the kobyss being relevant

they were just a one-off group of enemies

not every enemy group if a 'thread' with a story that matters

sometimes theyre just some bad guys for enemy variety

[rain cave]

Oh my god imagine if they retcon arthas at strathholme to light blindness

[rain cave]

I don’t think they were one off, I just don’t think they are relevant currently

But a lot of their dialogue and other stuff has hints to something literally and figuratively deeper

And I could see them becoming the new aquatic enemy after naga become friendly

[uncut vault]

They have a questline in Zul'Aman, which ends unresolved

[rain cave]

Keep in mind that the murlocs next to azsharas palace also used necromancy

And fight the Naga there

There’s definitely some kind of connection

Could be dreadlords, could be primus, could be something new or old

[dense plover]

could be side quest stuff - maybe a delve?

i dont see it being main story considering that guy isnt

[uncut vault]

all previous main patches have been set up by side quests since DF

Zaralek by the sundered flame quests in Ohnahran Plains, Dream by the green dragon memorial quest (and MSQ), Undermine by the Gazlowe and Venture Point side quests

[dense plover]

i guess thats fair

[uncut vault]

that's not to say I believe this leak

but naga/kobyss stuff could happen

both have very explicit side quests that end unresolved

[dense plover]

but they also couldve just said that based on playing the beta

the titan stuff is the stuff i really doubt

also redone eastern plaguelands makes no sense

[uncut vault]

the stuff in that 'leak' definitely exaggerates

[dense plover]

titan stuff is 1000% going to be mainly saved for the last titan

[uncut vault]

but the datamined end-of-raid spoilers for the Darkwell is that both the Devouring Host and the Vanguard of the Light get sucked down below the ground

[dense plover]

no way they want to burn out on that before the expac even happens

[uncut vault]

the hole for that was caused by Xal'atath trying to reach the worldcore

[uncut vault]

in fairness, we've been dealing with Void-related stuff throughout all of TWW

they clearly do want the threats to be introduced gradually

most of this leak isnt really any kind of new reveal, like I said

its just someone compiling datamining and speculation people have already made to seem official

EPL instead of Tirisfal revamp is the only real curveball

[dense plover]

i dont see them redoing another old world zone this expac

it required a lot more work than just building the zone because every change they do to the continent breaks a bunch of stuff

[uncut vault]

files and story all point to something in Lordaeron

even if its just a labyrinth or delve

[dense plover]

weird

maybe vareesa story?

she did get an updated model

could be she wants to learn about her sister since the undercity is abandoned

idk

what files and story are pointing there out of curiosity? i havent kept up with that

[deep pawn]

The Liadrin short features Undercity too

[austere gazelle]

Anyway this leak is fake because Metzen stated that we would banish the void " forever " in this expansion, but it'd have unexpected effect on Azeroth somehow

[austere gazelle]

Eastern plagueland is the most obvious choice for revamp because its connected directly to Quel Thalas.

I don't see them adding another island again. A new undeground zone to expand on Haranir lore, perhaps

[upper pasture]

i mean usually we "fix this probelm forever" until it's not fixed anymore. so i'd take that "forever" comment with a grain of salt

ie the legion

[austere gazelle]

My main theory would be that the Void and Light will merge into something new on Azeroth, creating another token of Harmony like Amirdrassil between life and death

[upper pasture]

yeah but they are cosmic forces in that example light and void still exist elsewhere AND the new combined force exists now too

[austere gazelle]

true, but somehow Azeroth could soothe both of these forces into harmony thanks to this " new " cohabitation on her crust

It's a flashback from the sentence of the Oracle of Zereth Mortis

[upper pasture]

yes, but still it's not like all the other void forces and light forces out and about cease to exist just because Azeroth combined them in our part of the universe

[austere gazelle]

"' Harmonies merge between us. Six voices in discord, Without Harmony, the anthem will be ended "

Its not a coincidence that Amirdrassil's means " Crown of Harmony "

[deep pawn]

There'll be remnants just like demons still exist, but it won't be a massive world ending threat for a good long while.

[ember blaze]

would be weird to just delete a cosmic force

https://bsky.app/profile/keyboardturner.bsky.social/post/3mepzkftlk22g

Ellie - might post spoilers-ish 💙 (@keyboardturner.bsky.social)

I feel like evoker is being prepped to be able to actually cast while in visage form. not only do they have a new combat idle to replace the "unarmed ready", but Azure Strike has a new swipe, Fire Breath has a new charging up. It's still very incomplete, but I don't know why else they'd add these

▶ Play video

Bluesky · Feb 13, 2026, 7:51 AM

Hmmm do yall think blizz is just gonna abandon dracthyr

Since it’s easier to throw it in the trash and just have you play human

Rip getting dragon mog or even the bare minimum of barbershop options

[deep pawn]

I mean it's been a big ask, I doubt they'll abandon the dragon form, they just want people to play evoker

[ember blaze]

putting resources on animations is already abandoning the lizard form when the lizard got 0

like is the work required extreme that an intern can't just take 5 mins to add a new color to barbershop armor after several years? 🤔

[rain cave]

I mean, it sounds and can be simple but that’s just for a quick implementation. Doesn’t include QA and other stuff

I do think blizz have made the character customisation stuff as modular as it can be without just throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch

But in your example it’s not just adding a new colour variant to the armor, it’s planning what it would be, giving it to an artist, then implementing by giving it to someone else probably, then asking people to test it, then evaluating if it matches the art style and quality, if it doesn’t then you go back

Just a lot of fluff so if they were going to do it they might as well do something bigger

[austere gazelle]

is there something strange? whats the maximum ilvl the leveling item are ?
The normal dungeon give 124 ilvl yet the heroic one 210+

I'm 166, does that means that leveling will give stuff above 124 ilvl thus, outscaling dungeon rewards on normal diff?

[upper pasture]

Yeah it’s always like that tho, also rewards scale based on level so quests give 192 at 89-90. The reason you’re seeing a high jump from normal to heroic is normal is showing you scaled rewards to your level (80) and heroics are max level (90). So it has the 70ish points from leveling AND the itmlvl jump from normal to heroic

[ember blaze]

maybe this is dumb, but anyone else dislike theres no dedicated building for professions 🤔

i guess the last time i remember it was legion 🤔

[urban surge]

Anyone know if Reishi Wraps are disabled upon entering Midnight content?

[austere gazelle]

I think the passive will vanish and is deactivated. So the cloak in itself will keep its stats bu t if you have the boots I advise you to have a remplacement cause their effect will be useless

[urban surge]

Yea that's what I was thinking before taking boots as my last vault lol, thanks

[deep pawn]

at level 81 I believe?

"that great mysterious island way out in the ocean which the team isn't going to talk about right now." yeah....

[dense plover]

uh - lots of them do have buildings

they just share them

so like, herbalism and alchemy are one building

theyre also outside the buildings

but theyre not JUST outside

[upper pasture]

On the beta the proc seems to be working all the way up to 90 but idk if the video I saw was old or not. Seems strange tier sets were disabled at 81 tho

[dense plover]

they might enable it with the early access tomorrow

[dense plover]

looks like the bug report emails are going out - havent gotten mine yet, but ill share once i have

[dense plover]

less than TWW but 14 unique is decent

[uncut vault]

Midnight's overall testing has felt much further along than even TWW's which was already pretty developed

I have to assume they've consolidated their internal testing a lot with the saga

[little hound]

Appreciate yer' efforts man.

[little hound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4v08O3h0I

Haha, So the Wokewell is happening

[dense plover]

no - this is the same set of stuff that was in alpha and is still marked DNT

the actual ending is encrypted

you cant even access the sound files

people like this make the community more toxic

[little hound]

I'll stick with this until proven otherwise, because this is highly convincing.

[dense plover]

its ancient

its literally the same stuff from alpha 1

[little hound]

[dense plover]

this person does not have access to any additional game files that everyone else has access to

this is factually the same stuff that has existed since it was added that is flagged DNT

DNT = Do Not Translate and it means it isnt being used

anything flagged DNT is not player facing

[remote shuttle]

Imagine using woke as an insult. Smh

[upper pasture]

People of all races and religions and orientations being treated equally!? Blasphemy! /s

[glass flicker]

"But I'm hilarious, y'guys, come on, why isn't everyone clapping?!"

[glass flicker]

Forget everything else. Make the Sunwell RGB and blast Caramelldansen at full volume.

[deep pawn]

We're gonna make a light and void sword for Arator aren't we.

[upper pasture]

sword of balance

[deep pawn]

We have the void forge in Voidstorm and the Rio interview says an elven forge will be really story relevant too

[dense plover]

its relevant to reforging turalyons shield

its the culmination of the arator storyline

thats how its important to the story

[deep pawn]

This sounded as "not known or datamined yet" type of teaser

[dense plover]

theres a missing cutscene

so probably that?

i really dont think its some extra thing

i feel like people are overthinking a lot of stuff

[deep pawn]

I don't recall multiple relics going into Arator's shield

[uncut vault]

that's a different forge, Arator just remakes it himself outside the Catalyst

the Voidforge is a max level quest that starts with Decimus

[dense plover]

no i was responding to an important blood elf forge

i have no idea whats up with the voidforge - maybe making some kind of relic? would be cool to get a shadowmourne type questline or something

[pulsar minnow]

jesus christ the arator cinematic

amazing

[little hound]

Bro knows how to use that blade with his feet 😄

[pulsar minnow]

that shit was so fuckin cool oml

[little hound]

And gawd DAMN He took a beating, ragdolled across the rooms

[pulsar minnow]

the music when he just... idk lighted everywhere

[little hound]

Bro farted with a match stick up his bum

[pulsar minnow]

so good

dude got taco bell before heading to silvermoon

[dense plover]

wonder if it will show up somewhere in game

i am avoiding watching it until i know

[little hound]

Lovely painting of High-King Anasterian and his Baby Kael'thas ❤️

Guuurl, missed ya

[dense plover]

they added so much decor to the quests

its great

[jade basalt]

Yeah it will

[little hound]

Ne'thul? Boy fandomed too hard about Ner'zhul 😄

[dense plover]

its just a similar name

dude was probably born before nerzhul was

[little hound]

I know, i was making a jest about how familiar names sounded.

[dense plover]

oooo i really like the cutscene before the story delve

it lays out a like 'void council'

i like that a lot

really good timing too - very early

[dense plover]

oh man, eversong end cinematic is exactly what i wanted

also i love zuljan in the cutscenes - exactly what i wanted for him

[pulsar minnow]

theory thats not fully thought through - but the Haranir keep mentioning how Azeroth/Aln'hara was torn/plucked/ripped from her cradle

[little hound]

Probably when Aman'thul yoinked her worldsoul into the Manifold/ Prison they made to research it

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah

but the wording almost reminds me of how Y'shaarj was literally ripped out of the planet

and how that became the well of eternity

and there's the whole idea of "elves dont know where the true power of the wells comes from"

I almost wonder if Aman'Thul was actually just trying to get Azeroth and Y'shaarj was just in the way. Not groundbreaking but it would be a retcon I wouldn't mind

On top of that- the roots of Elun'ahir aren't really in harandar are they?

[dense plover]

I think all of the existing world trees have them - none of the dead ones

Except teldrassil

[pulsar minnow]

yeah but wasnt the whole thing about elun'ahir is that it's not actually dead- that the roots lived

[dense plover]

/shrug they could be spread out

The zone only covers a small area of where the roots are

[pulsar minnow]

yeah, could also be it never grew enough to reach harandar too

it is really interesting how heavily they're tying azeroth to Life now in Midnight over being all 6

[dense plover]

i dont remember this during alpha/beta

when did they add this?

[dense plover]

in the arcantina and they gave her new voice lines b/c she isnt a little kid anymore!

[zealous sedge]

Silvermoon has left me speechless

dont fly up there

[tulip sun]

Idk but I do remember people sharing this

[lone mantle]

I am worried that the Sunwell may not remain in this state forever and could eventually be depleted.

[zealous sedge]

Agreed. Arator mentioned they couldn't sustain the ritual forever. I guess we'll find out at the end of MSQ!

[noble mica]

⏰👀

65% mana

[zealous sedge]

Brann being in Silvermoon teaching Archeology seems to me that we might get an update to the system this xpac

[rain cave]

https://tenor.com/view/hl2-hl3-half-life-3-hopium-hope-gif-7246120153840726923

[dense plover]

so i never really did voidstorm on beta

the times i tried it was too broken

its like they took the lessons they learned from the maw and used it to make it oppressive but not exhausting

[uncut vault]

Flight helps a lot lol

[rain cave]

"Here Turalyon, I remade your shield for you."
"No son... I can't take it.. it matches your transmogs colour scheme more than mine"

[upper lantern]

Yeah it's one of my favorite endgame zones in the entire game. Oppressive and dangerous, gives good lore on the enemy forces but not exhausting.

[rain cave]

(a bit of colour also doesn't hurt)

I think the idea of a grey colourless zone sounds better than it ends up being

Does anyone else get the feeling that the radiant song class idea they've kind of been setting up in the background might involve witch doctor/shadow hunters?

there's that harranir who does the ritual to silence the song in himself

and he has the shadow hunter aesthetic

there's also this line in the wiki

and if one of the specs of this class is "shadow hunter" or maybe on of the hero specs, I could see that being a way to bring the class back to more of the OG warcraft feel instead of just being azerite dust

would also allow it to exist as a fantasy without being a troll exclusive class

[dense plover]

Good thing this one isn’t - as I said, they learned their lessons

[deep pawn]

I don't particularly care for Voidstorm right now as a setting.

It feels very been here done that.

But we also have barely gotten any story in it so far

So maybe the next chapter will be better.

Harandar is gorgeous and I just sit in The Den sometimes for the music

[dense plover]

the side stories are so interesting

there is so much void elf lore we didnt have

and also a bunch of cool stuff with like, void beings

i really like it

ive been using the side quests to level from 87 to 90 since i finished the main story

[rain cave]

something I'm kind of unsure about is the consistency of what voidstorm and the void forces are

like what is a dominar? is it a void walker? are void walkers a seperate race from the dominar? Why are they made of energy, are they pure void? But what about the random beasts/kaiju things that don't even look that voidy?

because then obv you have old gods, they're their own aesthetic I am aware. They aren't pure void but you'd think that if there was going to be fleshy things in the voidstorm/void, they'd be a bit more tentacle-y

also something I've been trying to figure out is where exactly did all the energy in the darkheart go to?

she summoned a tower with a portal on it?

I understand pure void needs energy to summon to reality but like

is that REALLY equivalent to dimensius? a literal world eater? not to mention all the other extremely huge amounts of energy that was used

also the thing of the void storm aesthetic not being consistent with xalatath herself, yes it has the curl/swoop stuff that the black blade and her shoulders do everywhere, but the dominaar use a lot of raw irony silvery stuff, whereas shes got an old muted gold to her

(which does fit xal, no doubt. But if she is their leader, then you'd think there would be some drip down aesthetics)

maybe we'll see some more stuff as we go through the expac

[dense plover]

if you didnt get this you didnt pay attention at all

dominaar are their own race

theyre like a type of void being the same way an imp and a wrathguard are demons

theyre all void beings

just like demons are all fel-beings

old gods are specifically creations of void lords, which is why theyre tentacly

the void beings arent

and voidstorm is a real planet - or it used to be

its not intentionally void, it just happened to be where all of the void energy in the great dark met

and Xal used that to make the storm

pretty sure the dark heart hasnt been used yet, idk why you thought it was

[upper pasture]

she used it in that cutscene to spawn all the stuff no?

[dense plover]

did she?

[upper pasture]

let me find it

[dense plover]

again, Xal didnt invent this place, so its not her aesthetic

the void storm was a place

and the towers essentially cause the energy when it enters to not be able to leave

so it gets stronger and stronger

instead of just being strong

[upper pasture]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRV9f5AMkik&t=5s

[dense plover]

god not this youtuber

[upper pasture]

idk it was the first thing google brought up

[dense plover]

has this even happened yet?

i havent hit 90

this seems like spoilers for story i havent hit yet - i know what channel im in, but i cant give my thoughts on stuff i dont have the full context for

[upper pasture]

yes? it happened during the maw stuff in prepatch

[dense plover]

it did?

oh right

[upper pasture]

that way alerria was already in the voidstorm when we got there

[dense plover]

ok

it does seem like it was used to build all the infrastructure to open the portals

[upper pasture]

which is why she was "missing" from the beginning of the expansion and why arator said he hasn't seen her in a few weeks or whatever

[dense plover]

again, if you paid attention during void storm, they dont really have a leader

they follow the strongest or they get consumed

theyre not like the legion

Xal is the strongest so they do what she says so they dont get eaten by someone stronger

[upper pasture]

i jsut assumed the Dominar just take form of whoever is in charge over time and maybe their current look is remnants of their old leader/leaders

[dense plover]

we do know the dominaar were a people once

like the ethereals

its explained in some of the dialogue and lore interactables

why they look like that is unknown, yeah

[noble mica]

They kinda cute

[rain cave]

she summoned all the buildings

[rain cave]

I mean I was paying attention lol

my point was that it's because there's multiple void entities that share the same "look" and are named differently, and there's also beings who are void who look completely different

like the burning legion was a very strong faction name, it's clear that it's a faction. And then the things like imp, wrathguard, mo'arg, dreadlord/nathrezim, eredar, etc were very clearly races within that faction as they had very diverse looks and their language was only used to refer to that one type of thing

meanwhile the void faction we have big dominar, small dominar, thick and thin, voidwalkers who look like dominar with a bad back but aren't the same thing, dimensius is just a giant dominaar? or is he a giant void walker? who knows at this point. We also have the term void lord which would apply to dimensius but we've also seen that apply to both naaru and voidwalkers who are stronger, so maybe he is just a strong void walker.

and things like voidwalker and dominar sound more like titles/factions to me

as they relate to verbs or descriptions, something that factions names tend to do

[rain cave]

I was just doing this quest while levelling and that's kind of my point as well

was she.. not the strongest before?

considering that dimensius wasn't even around to lead before the ethereals re-summoned him

I'd like to point out that I do expect them to be fleshing this out as we go, since we have a whole expansion to go forward with

[dense plover]

The void is a faction but it is not organized like the Legion

It is just a faction in that the races are all different

Generally void beings seem to be coalesced energy

Void creatures are corrupted animals

Like how some “demons” are also animals infused with fel

[rain cave]

xal's forces are powerful because she is doing with them what sargeras did with the legion

they're quite similar in terms of their reasons for being strong

chaotic mass army that can regenerate when invading material realm
ordered and organized by a powerful leader with a goal in mind who unifies them

[dense plover]

yes, but its still very different

theyre less distinct because void is not fel

its more destructive to the physical form

[rain cave]

I mean, they're just different magic type

but also they're very similar in the sense that a lot of both of their forces might not even be originally void or demon

but have become void or demon

hell even xalatath and sargeras themselves

btw has anyone seen the void elf paladin around?

I've been checking all the named npcs in voidstorm and can't find her

[tulip sun]

She appeared in the intro but I havnt seen her since

[austere gazelle]

Sargeras brought Order into Disorder, ironically.

Xal is just assuming the top chain of command of something already existing

[dense plover]

so the animals on voidstorm are native to the planet

it used to be called Predacea

they evolved from tiny critters that survived the apocalypse that destroyed the planet, similar to how draenor became outland

except it was a weapon

not a portal

theres a sidequest chain

from riftwalker alayshen

the "secrets in the dark" questline

[subtle oar]

@dense plover Do we know if they decided to go back on this? I just completed this achievement and don't have the customizations.

[upper pasture]

probably also locked for EA if i had to guess, for "reasons"

[subtle oar]

Was it available in the Beta to test out?

[dense plover]

no idea

sorry

if they went back on it, that would imply theyre going to do more

but i suspect it is the early access lock thing

[uncut vault]

They did not go back on it, they're currently available

[dense plover]

oh ok

then i bet its just a case of quit and reload

theres some endgame/post zulaman stay awhiles

this is the ending of zuljans conversation with zuljarra

he sounded genuine

i really REALLY hope they dont make him a villain

[tulip sun]

Even with it still there im hoping they decide to do more

[ember blaze]

so is magister's terrace just us killing fellow blood elves? 🤔

why would lorthemar or anyone be okay with that 🤔

[grizzled jackal]

were just knocking them out 😛

they have sleep things above them after you "kill" them and it says unconcious instead of dead

[ember blaze]

https://giphy.com/gifs/CyCj2Kj1avdao

alleria really said

[plain violet]

I really like that as a mechanic for the dungeon!

[ember blaze]

I swear i only saw corpses

https://tenor.com/view/khadgar-sus-sus-suspicious-futurama-fry-sus-suspicious-meme-gif-27506206

[sturdy nexus]

I can't get over how fucking stupid the whole Arator getting slashed by Turalyon thing is..

Who approved of that scene? It's written so terribly. Why did Arator not block with a sword? Why is the narrative trying to make it seem like Turalyon only hit Arator because he was light blinded? Who else would have been able to stop their sword mid swing like that?

Turalyon was in the wrong for getting provoked so easily, but that's the only thing he did wrong.

[dense plover]

he jumped at the last minute

you cant block every hit thrown at you

and he didnt think his father would actually continue swinging

its not stupid

also good luck blocking a two handed sword with a one-handed sword

you might actually injure yourself more than a clean blow

but again, its very clearly not thought out on arator's part

it was a spur of the moment, im going to save this guy, move

unrelated, one of the side quests, we help bring back shadra

[sturdy nexus]

Dude he jumped in front of him literally a half second before the attack connected. And why would Turelyon even think anyone would jump in front of him to protect that guy in the first place? It's just a cheap way to make Turalyon look like a jerk. If they wanted to make Turalyon truly look like an ahole, theres a super easy way to do that. Have him attack his wife

Super easy way to create drama there

And there was already built up tension between those two as it was

[dense plover]

yeah half a second is spur of the moment

[dense plover]

that might still happen

[upper pasture]

he didn't need help making himself look like a jerk. he was attacking someone who was already defeated and not a threat

[dense plover]

you seem to lack some media literacy my guy - you dont seem to have paid much attention to the quests themselves before this

[sturdy nexus]

Turalyon is going to retroactively be made out to be right to have done that in hindsight though, which will make this even worse. Since it's more or less clear that they are unfortunetly going to turn Zul'Jan into our next villian of the patch

[dense plover]

this is the cherry on the turalyon is blind to everything but his way

[upper pasture]

the BEs and Trolls have been at peace for quite some time and Arator was trying to cool old wounds and not go right out on the attack

[dense plover]

also no

do the amani zone quests

its pretty clear that zuljan feels like he overdid it at the end

he is frustrated

he isnt completely stupid

[sturdy nexus]

Well I hope so, I guess I missed that. I like Zul'Jan and don't want him being turned into another troll boss to kill

[dense plover]

i do think someone is going to use his frustration to mess up our side of the fight tho

i definitely dont think he will be a boss

theres post-story dialogue where zuljan returns to the village and zuljarra is very much not going to let him be relegated and he seems genuinely grateful

[sturdy nexus]

I wish the narrative acknowledged more often though that Turalyon has been fighting using brainwashed light juice for over a thousand years. Feels like that gets hand waved a lot, or it's not made out to be the big deal it really is.

Maybe elves don't get it because they live for fucking ever. But that toll on a human has to be huge

[dense plover]

uh wut

it definitely doesnt

[upper pasture]

i feel like it's going to be brought up very soon. foreshadowing and all

[dense plover]

wut

youre in the first zone

finish the story my guy

then complain

[upper pasture]

like that's THE point of that cutscene

[sturdy nexus]

I literally just finished the 3rd zone. Where have I missed when Turalyon is acknowledged to have thousands of years of years of ptsd? I figured it would get brought up at least once so far. Sure Arator mentions how he was a veteran and a solider first but that's about the extent of what I've witnessed.

[dense plover]

its sort of mixed into the arator ending

and presumably the missing endgame story

since the voidstorm story seems to be focused on the light's issues

[sturdy nexus]

What happened with that?

[dense plover]

go do voidstorm

that has some of what youre asking for kinda

endgame story isnt out yet

some will likely come with reset tomorrow

but its going to be fed over the next few weeks

[sturdy nexus]

Ah okay, well I'll say more after that then

[dense plover]

i also think they just assume youve done legion stuff

which maybe isnt the smartest necessarily but legion remix DID just happen

im pretty sure we are getting more turalyon story in the endgame story tho - he shows up in voidstorm right at the end

[sturdy nexus]

I did. So I already understand that Turalyon is a zealot. He was fine with Illidan being turned into a light puppet, and the first thing he does is attack him because he rightfully didnt want it

[dense plover]

pay attention to lothraxion in the voidstorm stuff

have you done the arator questline?

[sturdy nexus]

That's pretty much just the Main quest right? Well I'm about to head into the void storm, or at least thats what it seems like

I'm on rising storm atm

[pulsar minnow]

I mean Turalyon’s whole arc is a crisis of faith with the path given to him by the Light being framed as a coping mechanism for his own PTSD.

Meanwhile he’s torn another direction away from the light and towards his family, and he can’t decide which to follow

also in the opening for the expansion Arator makes remarks about how Turalyon has been a soldier for so long he doesn't know how to be anything else

[harsh mason]

A man has been fighting literally all his life, first with the most bloodthirsty horde, then 1000 years of war with demons, now with Void. It's not a crisis of faith, the dude is just tired.

[rain cave]

There’s also the thing with anduin lothar getting killed in front of him

Which you could argue was a moment the light failed him

But he probably sees it as him failing the light

And that’s put him on the track to just refusing to acknowledge that the power he has been blessed with could be the problem

We’re seeing him explicitly saying that this expac with the sun well

He doesn’t want to acknowledge the lights flaws because then it would open up his own

It’s easier to just swing your sword at things

Pretty fitting that he rejected his shield, it has flaws and cracks, It represents those things in him. And within the class fantasy, it makes sense that arator would go from retribution like his father to protection. He isn’t here to get retribution on the void, he wants to protec people even if they can’t or won’t do the same for him

On a side note, I do wonder if he’s going to get a new sword to match his mothers side of family

Unsure if that’s too corny though

I would love if they gave is a legendary weapon quest line this expansion. Combining things like lightwood, alndust, void stuff, etc

There’s also potentially the smith who forged felomelorn and quelserrar/ queldelar around

[pulsar minnow]

I mean he is having a crisis of faith. The whole “we must trust in the light… we must”

His trust in the light is wavering just ever so slightly

[deep pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFXrtiiZzfE They put some spoilers in this haha

[deep pawn]

We haven't seen the charging ghost dino yet have we?

[dense plover]

what?

oh is it something in the video?

probably not - my guess is they included endgame story cinematics

[deep pawn]

oh they absolutely did

Cause they have march cutscenes

I wasn't expecting more Amani stuff

[dense plover]

well they gotta build up to 12.1

[crude sigil]

It's in a Delve (not a cinematic)

[upper pasture]

Where’s the other orb? Lol

[noble mica]

Overused on storm maybe lol

Or someone snatched it

[fathom fulcrum]

Alleria dies in 2 weeks? 🤔

[tulip sun]

I think its confirmed she lives

[upper pasture]

shes a windrunner lady. death never stopped them before

[fathom fulcrum]

WAS

[tulip sun]

?

[fathom fulcrum]

that means what 😭

[tulip sun]

Dataminers suggested so. But we don't see her after- someone told me her and Turalyon vanish

[fathom fulcrum]

wft why Turalyon

the leader of the Alliance cant just vanish

Light be with Turalyon in these hard times

[deep pawn]

It's expected that the vast majority of the army of the light vanguard gets slurped down the Sunwell with Xal'atath and the Desolate Host.

[fathom fulcrum]

slurp Anduin instead

[ember blaze]

isnt anguish basically what the venthyr do? 🤔

[upper pasture]

seems so, glad to see BEs getting addicted to magic yet again

[deep pawn]

Why not just call it blood magic

[ember blaze]

where was the blood

[deep pawn]

You don't see the swirling red magic as blood?

It even sounds wet

[glass flicker]

I do like the concept of Anguish magic. But it's weird that we haven't seen it used in this capacity before, even though it would've been useful.

If everything and everyone feels Anguish when we hurt it and we can draw power from that, it should be more commonplace among warlocks and the like, no?

[dense plover]

uh - all of revendreth?

i dont think astalor is actually a blood elf

[glass flicker]

I wouldn't say that's Anguish magic, exactly. Since all of Shadowlands functions with Anima.

[dense plover]

the revendreth magic is suspiciously similar

[glass flicker]

Until we get clarification of what Anguish magic is, I choose to think it's different.

[dense plover]

im just saying - i dont think its an accident theyre so similar

[glass flicker]

Valeera heals you with blood orbs in delves. They also look like Revendreth stuff.

Does that mean she's a Venthyr too?

[upper pasture]

Maybe he’s a dreadlord in disguise

[glass flicker]

I'm not one to play the pronoun game, buuuut...

[upper pasture]

Astalor? The prey guy?

[glass flicker]

Oh, I thought you were also referring to Valeera.

[upper pasture]

It’s also easy to explain that now that we’ve been to the shadowlands and have returned their magic is leaking over and now “new” types of magic are popping up

[glass flicker]

Though, yeah. I can see it. He's gathering Anguish - Anima extracted through fear and other Revendreth feelings, to revive Denathrius.

[upper pasture]

So anguish magic is just the same as the venthyr magic and it’s never been widely practiced on the living side before

[glass flicker]

Remember, he was still trapped in Remornia.

I can't wait for him to come back and say:

"Did you miss me, my little sinners?"

Blizzard, make him say that and I'll stay subscribed through another expansion as bad as Shadowlands.

[dense plover]

i wasnt saying that

i dont think he is evil necessarily

definitely not a great guy though

[glass flicker]

Evil is relative.

[dense plover]

he talks about tasting their anguish and fear

thats fucked

[glass flicker]

Ehh, just a bit sadistic.

"Dad, what is sadism?"
"Ask your mother."

But also, when did blood elves ever give regards to things they considered lower than themselves on the pecking order?

They'd literally Arcane Torrent things out of existence for their Mana.

[deep pawn]

its blood magic without calling it blood magic

when a trap bites us it creates a pool

I doubt that's typically enough to cause us anguish

[uncut vault]

my best guess/hope is that it's blizzards way of combining blood magic with the MoP version of Anima that blood elves use

as a way to avoid the actual word Anima that Shadowlands co-opted

I think Astalor being connected to/secretly a member of the venthyr would be super lame, because the blood elves should have dark and dangerous magic entirely of their own accord

[deep pawn]

More likely he's one of the last San'layn