beta-ptr-spoilers

[rain cave]

She wants to get rid of planet killers

[upper pasture]

By becoming one herself

[rain cave]

She hasn’t stated she wants to do that

She has just said she wants our worldsoul. The Dane worldsoul the jailer wanted to use to rewrite reality

She could use it to rewrite titans, gods, voidlords, light gods, etc out of existence

She is after all the most mortal big villain we’ve had

Her whole schtick is being really cunning, but ultimately just a person

Basically an evil illidan mentality

[remote shuttle]

frankly this is very very… wishful theory and fantasy over reality.

Which, is good to have.

Just a little far fetched. Frankly we don’t even know if Xal was a mortal.

[rain cave]

In my eyes it lines up for her theming and the over arching narrative

By setting up xal as a victim of sarg and the dreadlords, it makes her more dimensional, and calls back to the upcoming titan narrative in tlt. The mortal centred reasoning fits with illidan, and the dreadlords would then serve to semi redeem or explain sargeras before he and illidan re-enter the narrative and the titans become more antagonistic

Ever since legion really, but even in WoD the story has been focusing on mortals taking command of their own fate in spite of gods

And overwhelming odds

Xal being an extension of that, and tying her to things that set up the stories coming soon makes sense. It’s like how DF set up TWW

[remote shuttle]

I don’t see it myself, that looks far too far fetched for what appears to be happening here and drawing too many conclusions with not a shred of factual comment entry.
But, I won’t try change beliefs! It’s good to have a fantasy-set mind!

I’ll leave it there, and just say; managed to successfully report the Voidstorm thing on Telogrus, and see if they think it’s worth resources to correct or leave it in. Might be they just remove that one npc!

[rain cave]

I hope they lean into it

[remote shuttle]

Not my call; it’s just a lore error that you helped point out! Now it’s to them!

[rain cave]

I mean we don’t know if it’s a lore error

[remote shuttle]

Well; kinda do now you got me to report it!

[rain cave]

Just because you reported it doesn’t make it an error

It’s been around well before midnight alpha dropped

And it doesn’t conflict with anything

[remote shuttle]

Sorry it might conflict with your theory? It might not get fixed if its not worth the trouble!

[rain cave]

I don’t like how passive aggressive you’re being :/

just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean you should dismiss it as a mistake or error, especially when it’s something that doesn’t actually conflict with lore

You aren’t the definitive authority on blizzards lore lol

[remote shuttle]

No; I just know that npc in question you were referring to was a continuity error. As per its own dialogue.

So you brought it up, and I forwarded it.

[rain cave]

What continuity error??

[remote shuttle]

This npc was added in Legion; For the void elves in reference to the distant islands of Telogrus Rift being too dangerous to traverse - it is positioned at the edge of the second island - Fathom's Edge, overlooking Cosmic Horizon saying the following;

• Unchecked void energies ravage the other islands. It remains too dangerous to navigate.,
• The Voidstorm is growing. It might even consume the big island entirely.,
• The last people who ventured beyond this space were consumed by the shadows.,
• The void energy released when the ethereals attacked left the other islands unstable. No one is allowed beyond this point.

Point 2 refers to the lil remnant storm hovering above Cosmic Horison. 1,3,4 - All refer to the untraversible nature that was used to reinforce the platforms not being reachable.

In War Within Pre-patch, in the Xal'atath quest, you revisit this area and the majority takes place in these areas. Following that they maintained the portals and traversal to these platforms.

[rain cave]

That doesn’t conflict with voicelines

[remote shuttle]

Either way - My contact thanked me and they're looking into it~

It does seem like an obvious oversight, I gave suggestions on amendments and left it at that; as that is as much as I can do.

[elfin eagle]

Agreed - it’s a terrible impression

[elfin eagle]

I actually love this theory

[rain cave]

Christ…

[elfin eagle]

I imagine xal arath as basically being the narrative parallel to the player champion

[rain cave]

I pray that her raid fight isn’t her becoming big evil monster

[elfin eagle]

She’s to the void what we are to Azeroth. We fight for her, but are also self aware to be an individual, I don’t think she’ll ever be written to be a hero. But I’d love if her downfall would actually be getting ordered

[rain cave]

Xal getting ordered/ obliterated by something titan as a “yippee were saved” “more like under new management” moment would be interesting

[elfin eagle]

Like she talks for two expansions about how important you need to be on your own, we see her build up her character through her smarts, she helps the pc multiple times when necessary

I think her being denied that power and individuality would add a layer of tragedy to her; she never gets to be the big bad wolf in the end and gets ordered by the titans at the end of midnight and becomes a sad servant

[rain cave]

I’d also like to point out she allied with iridikron, someone very specifically anti titan. Ik xal will ally with anyone to use them but iridikron is more like he’d ally with anyone who shares a goal with him

[elfin eagle]

She also does help Alleria…and with what happened to Alleria…maybe the opposite will happen to xal atath

[rain cave]

Also something I’m realising is that with alleria getting luura sucked out of her, what if we do the same to xal? So we can trap her in something again

[elfin eagle]

What sword?

Maybe who knows

[rain cave]

She’s so void that if we killed her in reality, she’d just go back to being a soul in the void. And she’s known to play the long game from being trapped

[rain cave]

I mean you jest but I do think both sargeras sword and the black blade are inspired by mourneblades

[elfin eagle]

It’s hard cause I’m a lil less advanced

[lavish raptor]

they should trap her in a shoe instead of a sword/dagger

[rain cave]

Because we know void invaded shadowlands, and the black blade is very similar to a mourneblade

[elfin eagle]

And I know tws was a rewrite - and I’ll be honest undermine was extremely lazy writing

But karesh was A+

[lavish raptor]

sticking her in a dagger was dumb of the old gods

[rain cave]

Also old gods are very similar to maldraxxus. Both physically as giant piles of flesh, but their minions also take on the house of spiders aesthetic

Something that hasn’t been explained as to why

[elfin eagle]

I love that the void have a separate theme to them away to the old goes

Old gods are masses of life void is not

[rain cave]

What if the primus basically orchestrated a peace deal with the void, hence why the light hates death as well.

[elfin eagle]

Yep all forces create life in their own way

[rain cave]

Part of that being giving them info on mourneblades and flesh shaping

Also I’d love if the black blade was a mourneblade because it gives xal even more potential beef with the dreadlords

[worn crown]

I love thebigsaint theory because it makes Xal have a more interesting backstory and clear/coherent and relatable motivations

During all TWW Xal was no better than the Jailer for the whole of Shadowlands (mystery for the sake of mystery - even with the lorewalking bit), except with a lot more talk involved

Blizz, even with Metzen involved again, STILL confuses a good narrative with hiding crucial information for it to be truly engaging - just like in SL

If Sylvanas book was released PRIOR to SL expansion, the Sylvanas/Jailer main arc would not feel so jarring

[elfin eagle]

11.2 was a significant step up

[deep pawn]

If I don't have Xal's exact goals for her power and her end game by the end of 12.0 I will call it crap writing

ESPECIALLY since 12.1 looks to be Trolls

[fathom fulcrum]

internet sources claim... housing will be free for everyone!?!??!

[uncut vault]

1000 gold for a house, and early access will require Midnight

but effectively yes, housing is intended to be very easy to access

[fathom fulcrum]

gg

[upper pasture]

Yes, housing is an evergreen feature being added in midnight

So it makes sense to require having midnight

[pulsar minnow]

Isle of Fangs could also just be the forbidden reach equivalent tbh

[deep pawn]

it seems a tad big to be Siren Isle, Forbidden Reach

It's a full sized zone

[pulsar minnow]

Forbidden reach was roughly the same size as emerald dream tbf

[rain cave]

Maybe they’ll try address the issues people had with those zones, make it a bit more of a continuous thing across .5 and .7

Warranting the bigger area

Maybe it’ll be like timeless isle even

[deep pawn]

Forbidden Reach was also created primarily to be the starting zone and Blizzard made use of it vs wasting it like the DH starting zone.

They aren't making an Island as big as Isle of Fangs to be minor patch content plus there's a dungeon entrance

[clear apex]

From what i saw on YouTube, isle of fangs looks much larger than siren isle/ forbidden reach

Looks like a proper zone

[deep pawn]

It has a dungeon even.

[clear apex]

I hope we don't get a filler borrowed power tiny island patch again

[deep pawn]

Only reason we can see it in my opinion is there's no lore reason for it to suddenly appear 6 months after launch

[pulsar minnow]

Problem is if there’s a dungeon

Then where’s the raid

[rain cave]

to be fair considering they split the raids accross 3 instances

maybe isle of fangs will be a new primary patch zone, but not be the only area for the patch

like maybe the story in quelthalas/voidstorm will continue

but because those zones already exist they can just add new instances and story stuff to them as it happens

[clear apex]

Id enjoy seeing new stuff continue in these updated zones

Legion pretty much worked that way

[rain cave]

like I imagine the defense of the sunwell will be a somewhat ongoing narrative thread

[clear apex]

Good

[pulsar minnow]

Also wonder if maybe they’d just make the Isle of Fangs instance into a mini raid

If they’re already doing the split tier, adding 2 more bosses mid tier could go well with the dinars and mid season supercharge event

Would also wrap up the Amani storyline since harandar, Quel thalas, and Voidstorm are all getting raids

Hell the boss there could even be kithix

[clear apex]

Maybe ||snake loa raid||

[elfin eagle]

Personally I think isle of fangs will be a .5 thing

[elfin eagle]

|| snake loa poison and kithix messing around with the black blood ||

[deep pawn]

Way way too big

[pulsar minnow]

Could be cool if maybe the way they contained kith’ix was by having the snake loa ula tek subdue him in the temple

[deep pawn]

Reusing Haradnar isn't enough to suddenly make a massive zone for a couple months

[elfin eagle]

|| troll poison island is just so weird narratively after whatever happens in the sunwell, I’ll let them cook though ||

[deep pawn]

12.1 was always going to be a theme detour because Blizzard is worried about burnout

I wanted Dreadlords

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like we can’t really use the war within as our guideline. I know it’s the world soul saga yeah but it WAS very clearly gutted

Like they had to use a scrapped island expedition after all

But dragonflight also had the same 3 patch expansion format and its zones were all relevant to the main plot

[deep pawn]

You can't pretend the 3 raids felt the same

[pulsar minnow]

Idk what you mean. The raids were good. Vault of incarnates was great, Abberus was a lil easy sure and Amirdrassil was solid

[deep pawn]

That's not what I said

you're not gonna mix up the bosses of the 3 raids

where as back to back to back void raids would blend

[dense plover]

i like the 3 raids thing a lot

[pulsar minnow]

Same

[dense plover]

it allows them to tell multiple separate stories without having to compromise on that

normally they wouldve been shoved together and had like teleports between them and been less cohesive to the overarching story as a result

[upper pasture]

or shoehorning in a story somewhere it doesn't belong because it "has to be" in a raid

[pulsar minnow]

Also allows zones stories to really get a climax in the form of a raid boss

Like Chimaerus in Harandar for instance

[dense plover]

so curious how that will happen

[pulsar minnow]

We should find out really soon right? Phase 3 is tomorrow right? Or Thursday

[dense plover]

probably tomorrow

there was a tweet about new alpha stuff

[pulsar minnow]

Sweet. Can’t wait for the Harandar storyline. Really excited to see how we even get to the zone from Quel Thalas if it’s not just a basic portal in the city

[dense plover]

we wont get to see that unfortunately

we will spawn in the zone unless it has an intro quest beyond "go here"

personally i hope its something seamless without a loadscreen

voidstorm im sure will be but idk about harandar

ptr is probably coming tomorrow as well

it now shows the correct realms

[pulsar minnow]

Likewise. Had this mental image of the Zaralek and Shadowlands flight path transition stuff being mixed together.

It’s hard to explain in text but it would have a sort of light at the end of the tunnel like the Shadowlands flightpath with maybe animations of roots racing alongside you/opening up as you fly down through the airlock

That said there’s also a loading screen for harandar so probably just wishful thinking

[dense plover]

SAME

literally had the exact same idea of some combo of the two

maybe use the wind tunnel effect thing to guide the player to stay on the right path and boost them through

[pulsar minnow]

Ikr?? would look soooo cool

[deep pawn]

We were told a while ago that Orwenya opens a portal through the roots for us

The Dawnwell is somehow connected to the Sunwell and the powerup the Sunwell has is messing with the Dawnwell and Orwenya is trying to figure out the Dawngrowth when we run into her

I'm sure the start will be the elders reprimanding her

[uncut vault]

PTR realms seem to finally be back, if still offline

[clear apex]

Maybe they'll go live tomorrow finally

[dense plover]

seems likely

[clear apex]

I hope that means the house test will go into Monday then instead of still ending on Friday

Or was it Thurs

[dense plover]

wasnt it a single day stress test?

cant test the other delve so im testing this one

well it didnt DC or crash me when loading

which this zone does a lot

nvm

sat down at the campfire and crashed

impossible to test instanced content this build

[deep pawn]

nah, had a range

also looks like alpha build tomorrow

server techs may be busy

[clear apex]

Originally Mon-Thurs

So i hope it'll be Wed-Sat or wed-mon since they delayed

[dense plover]

they might delay the housing test until next monday so they can fix bugs and bring over any changes from the alpha before monday

[clear apex]

Don't crush my hopes

[pulsar minnow]

Hm something interesting

New art got released I don’t know where the original was posted

But Shalamayne is still missing its light spark

[clear apex]

Understandable since he didn't seem to reconnect with the light fully yet. He was still pretty doubtful

[deep pawn]

Does anyone else's beta client CONSTANTLY patch?

[deep pawn]

why does Lothraxion look so weird?

[pulsar minnow]

might be the wings being a different shape

[deep pawn]

he's also skinny

[pulsar minnow]

also it looks like his outfit got some touch-ups? I mean his current model is literally just a recolored dreadlord with horns removed

[deep pawn]

That can't be anyone but Lothraxion though

[pulsar minnow]

wish it was like that in-game tbh

I really hope lothraxion ends up staying on our side. I just love the idea of there being at least ONE nathrezim that's just a cool guy. That was like his whole shtick. Him ending up evil as well would just stink

here's to hoping we don't kill him in the dungeon and Denathrius got a bad read on him from the spy journals

[dense plover]

new alpha for tomorrow

[deep pawn]

So far Alpha apparently only has added snails for April.

Which weird cause I would have thought we'd be looking at 12.0.5 by late March but they've done that before.

I haven't seen much datamining of 11.2.7 mounts

https://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2025/october/139485.jpg

These are called Garden Snails.

Matches the garden gnome sets

[clear apex]

Part of me hates that since it looks like a furry snail. But up close its leaves and bark

[dense plover]

There will be more added after alpha and across alpha

[pulsar minnow]

Wow that is gorgeous

[deep pawn]

there's a golden mount that could be February that's classed as 11.2.7

https://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2025/october/100252.jpg

also could be dawn

[uncut vault]

his outfit isnt changing, its just getting a revamp to the Shadowlands dreadlord skeleton

[dense plover]

plus updated textures

since ya know, legion was 10 years ago

[deep pawn]

He looks so frowny, was that always the case?

guess they did narrow his torso

[uncut vault]

The new dreadlords are all super frowny

[plain violet]

I like the light horns... I think Lothraxion is a good example of "still demon looking but light" and without feeling evil.

I would love more visuals like this, of "monstrous" race with the Light, to show it more universal that just beauty pagents (as much as I love draenei).

[rain cave]

He’s so angry

[glass fulcrum]

Housing PTR still not announced right?

Like it’s delayed until otherwise said

[plain violet]

Yes delayed until next news!

[pulsar minnow]

I know. I was just saying in the artwork they changed his design a bit

[elfin eagle]

Ugh feels like yesterday

[deep pawn]

Servers are up

Lots of changes

Gonna be loading screens for each neighborhood

[dense plover]

oh hey - new alpha

that was fast

zulaman has a loading screen

and its fucking gorgeous!

no dev notes yet tho

we should have this though

new settings

damage meter has preview info placeholders - work being done bts

ok - ready to test!

just kidding

gonna test housing lol

well this makes me concerned for housing items 🙁

interesting - no logo

load times this build SUCK

theyre SO long

[clear apex]

oh that is a pretty load screen

[dense plover]

and my housing stuff is broken

there is no way this will be playable by dec 2

its a fucking mess

new campsites are coming

theres 3 actually

no idea what the first one is

delvers journey stuff seems interesting

no idea what this is

dunno this either

this one being an unlock seems odd

dungeons all have their art now

same here

and managed to still crash just by doing housing

7 weeks - i truly think this launch might be a mistake

ok harandar

here we go

eventually

after the longest load screen ive ever seen

OH

we start in eversong

so i guess we ARE going to see how we get there

[pulsar minnow]

Really interesting they labeled that the Zul Aman load screen in the files yet Zul Aman is only in the background while Gilneas and Lordaeron are closest in view

[dense plover]

and im fucking desynced AGAIN

jesus

halduron and orweyna

uh oh - it MIGHT just be a portal 🙁

oh this might not be desync - the servers are dying

[upper pasture]

Alpha gonna alpha

[clear apex]

the ptr on battle net has the 'check for updates' grayed out 🤔

[dense plover]

it isnt seamless - its a stupid portal

all we do is open a dang portal in fairbreeze

[clear apex]

i figured that to be the case, they said it wasn't located in a real space within azeroth or something

and it can travel to every world tree

[dense plover]

still couldve had us fly through

entrance is on this side

[clear apex]

it would have been a LONG flight

[pulsar minnow]

Would’ve preferred it be like the dream portal. Having to jump off and click the portal always just feels bad

[clear apex]

yeah dream portal insta port would be cool

or like how they do in the emerald dream way

[clear apex]

oh holy shit Hal is with us?!

[dense plover]

only halduron and orweyna

[clear apex]

thats cool

[clear apex]

the ranger captain actually doing things

[dense plover]

its below amirdrassil apparently

at least this part is

[clear apex]

nice cloak images but i imagine theyre the leafy ones?

[dense plover]

GODDAMN

'

the ambient sounds here are crazy

growing root sounds

[uncut vault]

is it an island, or is that just a weird map

[dense plover]

described as a cavern

he turned into a bat

its not an actual island @uncut vault

thats just the cavern we have access too

the spiral is likely the roots of amirdrassil

but the rootlands covers the entire underground i think

oh they actually cover the swirl

[uncut vault]

I imagine if that's a huge centerpiece, it's probably the roots of elun'ahir

[dense plover]

straight up breath of the wild moment

just these are the roots of amirdrassil

it actually is the name of the area

quest objective is straight up broken

not sure its even possible to progress past this

wtf

a whole maybe untestable zone

nice

couldnt test delves last week

might not be able to test quests this week

and now its working - just had to redo it for some reason

probably server desync

plant hummingbird thing

wtf?

[uncut vault]

Yeah the raid is the Rift that spawned the Emerald Nightmare

[dense plover]

total shift in aesthetic

reminds me of zangarmarsh

i have a feeling this wont end well

nvm - much more gentle

definitely feels like this is meant as the third zone too

technically occurs around the same time as the trolls, but the troll one has a direct lead in from the end of eversong

unless this has a direct lead in in the middle of eversong

which it might

since this occurs in fairbreeze after you finish the lightbloom stuff there

very cool

they actually wander the zone

better than the brutosaurs

truly deadly too

this came from a moth flagged as treasure

also this

[upper pasture]

I hope we get this as a mount even if it’s our midnight meta mount

[dense plover]

ah seems like hagar was root warden to one of the trees that burned

the question is which one right?

didnt archimonde burn one of the trees?

oh nvm

definitely teldrassil

stay a while and listen follows

[pulsar minnow]

Hm so this is confirming Aln’hara is THE goddess. So does this confirm Azeroth’s worldsoul was “taken” from the rift of Aln?

[dense plover]

no idea - we havent gotten that far yet

definitely teldrassil lol

[pulsar minnow]

Dungeon journal from chimaerus suggests this

[dense plover]

this might end with a delve

they seem to be using them for the stories sometimes

in place of dungeons

i like it

first cave painting

zur'ashar is a title

[upper pasture]

They literally say the were the guardian of teld in your second image lol

[dense plover]

oh lol

[upper pasture]

lol

[dense plover]

cool screen effect

[rain cave]

Reminds me of the zangarmarsh whale’s in wod

[dense plover]

have to hide to avoid the titans and collect berries

so the rootlands are essentially fully untouched by the titans

pangquill

the bats

ah, so the song began AFTER the titans had imprisoned azeroth

yup i was right

uh oh - the void is here too

i love all the dialogue

[upper pasture]

So the hara’nar were the first elves then? And not always underground?

[dense plover]

uh - its not clear

[pulsar minnow]

They did mention some worshipped the moon and stars so those were probably what became the night elves

[upper pasture]

And other went underground

[dense plover]

servers were either taken down or crashed

maybe theyll fix the lag

[upper pasture]

Which then became hara’nar proper, they have to be one of the first civilizations since literally no other civilization knew about them not even a tidbit

[dense plover]

hard to read but apparently yes - the haranir were on the surface

some stayed, some went beneath

and the ones that stayed likely found the well of eternity or were ordered by the titans directly

my question is where are the trolls in this

were they trolls and then the ones that followed the call became haronir?

[obtuse vine]

I remember before Dragonflight released they said we would meet “primordial trolls” but that obviously never happened, so I do wonder if all this time the plan was for it to be the haranir

[pulsar minnow]

Seems like they were dark trolls

[clear apex]

i dont think theyre part of trollkind but maybe the lore will explain more

cause that's saying trollkind was young to them
or at least a different kind of troll

[pulsar minnow]

Well they mentioned how they lived in the shadow of the great mountain

And mount hyjal was the original home of the dark trolls

[jade basalt]

They seemed to consider themselves 'higher trolls'

And other trolls were 'lesser'

'Children'

[pulsar minnow]

They likely already started to evolve and change

[dense plover]

servers went down so i cant play more

tried to load the delve and the servers decided to crash'

[clear apex]

neanderthal v homo sapiens situation i feel

[dense plover]

they were already struggling so maybe its for the best

and theyll fix it

[clear apex]

your fault mr peach**

[dense plover]

peach - i want nothing to do with that youtuber

[clear apex]

idk i just just noticed its NOT preach lmao

[upper pasture]

This was my reaction when we saw him at blizzcon and my buddy was like “oh do you want to get a photo with him?”

[deep pawn]

Wait, so they followed Azeroth's song as she is confirmed their goddess. So that means she was removed from the cradle and places in the manifold.

[deep pawn]

Please let Orwenya meet some Zandalari so she can call them children

[uncut vault]

Well damn, I still cant test Eversong because Quel'danas is blocked off so I cant turn in the quest after the intro lol

[dense plover]

amazing

wait no

i think you can just teleport to silvermoon

using the portal

and start the eversong stuff directly

also im pretty sure the quest order they want tested is harandar -> eversong

which is why the tauren sends you to harandar

[uncut vault]

I can do side quests, but the intro quest is very briefly at the front gate of the sunwell before heading into Silvermoon

[dense plover]

it looks like the split to start harandar happens in the middle of the eversong storyline afaict

[dense plover]

oof

well not like i can play at all

2/3 servers are down

and the lag is terrible

[jade basalt]

It's towards the beginning when you reach the first village and there's some Lightbloom, Orweyna's there and you can either follow her with Halduron or continue Eversong with Arator

[dense plover]

yeah thats wild tbh

interrupting the eversong storyline to completely switch zones

[uncut vault]

is it interrupting the Eversong plot, or just the choice between Harandar or Arator?

I havent looked at Eversong MSQ at all so idk

[deep pawn]

Blizzard always made it sound like when we reach the end of Eversong we are given 3 paths

[dense plover]

its not at the end

but it IS before the troll stuff within eversong

you finish the lightbloom stuff

and then have the option of continuing in eversong which leads to the trolls

or you leave for harandar

im pretty sure the arator stuff is after the total completion of eversong

since it requires the ending of that

[deep pawn]

That isn't what they said but Blizzard frequently lies

[upper pasture]

"lies" or "things change"?

[clear apex]

i thought it was just as Peach said from the start.
SM/ES then choice of harandar, arator or amani

[crude sigil]

"lies" ... It's an Alpha ... Please

everything is subject to change

[deep pawn]

No, now it's apparently do half of ES, then choose to finish Eversong and then do Arator and ZA, or do Haradnar then finish Eversong

Unless they're framing the end of Eversong more as the ZA prequel

[uncut vault]

man this lag is unbearable lol

[uncut vault]

lol

[upper pasture]

The trama

[lavish raptor]

hrt goes crazy on Azeroth

[proper palm]

When a blood elf tries to acquire the charisma of a dwarf

[noble mica]

Brann is gender fluid 😁

[glass fulcrum]

And race fluid

[worn crown]

I have a (silly) question: do we get a hearthstone that takes us directly to our house in Midnight, or do we have to go there through the portal to the neighborhood?

[clear apex]

From what I've seen, you do get a port to it but it's in the house menu atm

I've been watching a much housing stuff as i can

[clear apex]

ptr updating??

T.T theyre still offline damnit

[barren vigil]

they really did pull a "housing ptr has been delayed" with no follow up info what so ever 🙁 i dont mind the wait. i do mind being left in the dark as to why. its not the end of the world...just a crappy feeling

[clear apex]

I agree. I was looking forward to it all weekend

[barren vigil]

the very least they could of done was a quick new blue post "hey were still working on it. dont want you guys thinking we left yall in the dark. more updates to come!" even with no informaiton. communication is key.

[upper pasture]

they said that in the initial delay post tho

[barren vigil]

yeah i know. but its been a few days now of darkness on the matter. a very slight update would be nice.

[upper pasture]

an update of "we have nothing to update" would likely just piss more people off then do any good

[clear apex]

hell yeah

they updated 8p

#latest-news

and...its seriously only 1 day long??

[upper pasture]

wasn't that the original time table too?

[barren vigil]

see? if i wouldnt of posted here we would of heard anything. your welcome 🙂

[clear apex]

nah it mon-thurs

so i had hoped it would run during the weekend

[dense plover]

this is a stress test

they want to see what it takes for neighborhoods to explore

they already found out that outdoor lighting is a problem

i assume the solution for post-launch is going to involve tagging lights separately and having a stronger limit, and also probably not loading the actual lights until you get much closer to a house in order to reduce client load

[clear apex]

so far, cant even get to the neighborhood

[clear apex]

more people might not be inclined to join for a 1 day test

[dense plover]

opposite - if there is only one day, they can guarantee more people, some people might only try one day and spreading it out reduces the stress test

[clear apex]

not even working, got to the neighborhood and the game crashes

stuck at 75% load

[zealous sedge]

lots of buttons are not working haha

but honestly

i love what im seeing

[dense plover]

yeah thats how the alpha is

and why i said early access might get delayed or be a mess

its barely functional and needs a ton of work

but theyre also trying to blast through two more alpha phases ASAP

they want to test a lot of things very quickly

ok - switching topics, i should be able to test the new gulf of memory delve

immediate lore

this should be the dark trolls?

or kobolds....

[plain violet]

Oooh nice!

[dense plover]

those things from half life

you have to light the ghost candles and collect treasure

otherwise you take increased dmg

also its the objective

doesnt quite make sense

next step

webs replace the darkness debuff

they slow by 50% when standing in them

woah

nameplate stacking is still totally fucked

delve is so big it has 2 checkpoints

[upper pasture]

Gulf of Memory? more like Gulf of Azeroth imrite?! /s

[dense plover]

any way to translate this?

rock is for the story quest

new version of this quest

confirms voidlight marl replace the crystals from TWW

cant use it b/c ilvl is still busted

leave o bot has a higher number and goblin-based model. i did not have a chance to screenshot

but that makes sense since its the reliquary not the explorers guild and theyre horde-based

confirms we arent done with the azeroth song stuff from TWW

i am glad they havent just given up on stuff from the previous expac

still not the 'capital' of the zone

new fungarians

[upper pasture]

i think that was the point of pointing out it's a trilogy and not just expansion after expansion, the stories will all tie together

[dense plover]

also all of the plant people are not evil

[dense plover]

yes but theyre actually following through on that

[upper pasture]

and if something doesn't play out completely in one expect to see it return in another

[dense plover]

half-eldritch horror, half-cute plant person

unrelated - cows got a new model - something i complained about in alpha 1

[clear apex]

OMG

after 2 decades we got new cows, theyre cute

[zealous sedge]

wow cow level confirmed

[lone mantle]

Moo!

[clear apex]

ok so the homebound addon is great

[zealous sedge]

its fire

[pulsar minnow]

10/10 expansion no notes

[clear apex]

theyre not tameable are they? Id love a cow hunter pet

Nice that I can see what achievements I need, already have most of the ones I wanted.

[dense plover]

probably not

[clear apex]

I was missing ONE person for fiona

[rain cave]

even the cows are getting new models before baine

[dense plover]

baine got a new model in BfA

he doesnt need a new model

for context, cows had models that were ported over from WC3

there are still a few models like that

the old world deer/doe, the zhevras, the lions, and the giraffes in the barrens

and thats pretty much it now afaik

[clear apex]

Surprised it took 20 years

[glass fulcrum]

I went on PTR, no housing quest and the portal just DCs me repeatedly :(

[pulsar minnow]

Lor themar and Blaine’s glowups were so damn good I don’t think they’ll ever get their models changed for another 10 years

[clear apex]

same. havent been able to get back on

it dc'd me in founders point and everytime i try to log into that character, it wont even get past the load screen

[next lodge]

is guild neighrbourhoods not working?

[rain cave]

Ik but thralls gotten like 3

[lavish raptor]

what would they change about him

thats my quasten

[clear apex]

fun, i like this way of doing it

[dense plover]

no - theyre not testing that

i dont believe that feature is even coming with early access

[upper pasture]

i think it is just not endevours

[next lodge]

Literally says they are testing it in the blue post

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[upper pasture]

at launch that is guild neighborhoods are coming in EA

i think it's just a sum of a lot of probelms on the PTR for housing RN

[dense plover]

i wasnt crazy when i said it wasnt ready yet

[clear apex]

ive finally been able to use it though the tutorial quest just disappeared on me so theres features I cant use

[pulsar minnow]

Question for alpha folks- does Arator have voice lines yet?

I heard somewhere that it’s Yuri Lowenthal voicing him and I really want to hear it

[dense plover]

I don’t think so

[uncut vault]

He got some in the intro this build

he's always been voiced by Yuri Lowenthal since Legion though

[pulsar minnow]

oh i had no idea

thats awesome lmao

[uncut vault]

questline on the PTR is fully voiced if you want to go preview it

[pulsar minnow]

gotcha- thanks!

I know its not a shock because its yuri lowenthal and hes a well known and talented voice actor but yeah- he does a good job as Arator

[clear apex]

cozy lil bathroom

[dry plinth]

testing housing. frustrating low availability of furnishing pieces on ptr rn since there's no vendor

exterior/garden girlies will be frustrated to note the 200 limit on exteriors - however, this is necessary for servers i suppose

[clear apex]

oh how pretty

love your elevated floor

[dry plinth]

thank u

[clear apex]

nice

noticed some items i bought said theyre in my inventory but i cannot find them within the housing items

i bought the big elf bed and it says i have 3 if i go to the vendor

ended up picking a house by an rp spot

[ember blaze]

can u place all inside items outside? 🤔

[clear apex]

Not all from the looks of it

Oddly you can't place the cobble stone path outside so i reported that, no idea why it's listed as interior

Have to say, i don't think i want a spooky plot in founders point. The lighting is bad

It's nice for glowy outdoor items but then it's hard to see anything else

People were upset over everyone picking houses closer to the ocean/ on the mountain

No one seems to want interior homes

[deep pawn]

waterfront is alway a premium

[ionic terrace]

hmm

[lavish raptor]

me too thalyssra

[gray plover]

When the waitress says ‘enjoy your meal’ and you say ‘thanks you too’

[noble mica]

They did early access for one day for houses for all players or something?

[uncut vault]

PTR testing, hence the PTR channel haha

[noble mica]

Oh nice 😊

[zenith arch]

Midnight ends with the titans coming back just before xal takes over. Big fight between a juiced up iridikron and the titans leaving Sargeras and Illidan the only 2 left.

[rain cave]

Xalatath: "muwahahaha I reign supreme! I win! I control the world so-"
Amanthul:

https://tenor.com/view/backhand-hoodwinked-hoodwinked2-hd-meme-gif-24300706

[agile token]

One question I have from everything ive seen so far from Midnight:

Are our re-powered dragon aspects lending a hand, as is their duty?

[rain cave]

it is funny you mention this because the only dragons who've actually been contributing to helping us are the infinites

legion remix is an experiment to help us train for the void invasion I think is the lore

or atleast learn and train in that sort of environment

but yeah Alexstrasza's been kind of slacking

hopefully merithra will pop up with the haranir story and maybe get her own model

[zenith arch]

Nah I bet you anything Amanthul comes down and just squishes her

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-satoru-jujutsu-kaisen-jujutsu-stamp-over-stamp-gif-21968636

[rain cave]

kind of hilarious that the people defending the trees on the top, who were charged explicitly with defending them, had no idea the haranir existed

like you'd have thought ysera would have had a little peak and seen those guys running around

or hell even neltharion might have spotted them that far down

I would very much like it if merithra, as the new head of the greens, upon learning about the haranir and their service. Makes an effort to have more open collaboration between all these tree adjacent cultures, primarily because she would look great with a unique model that combines some of ysera's more elegent nelf stuff with the haranir's feral aspects

[untold fox]

I hope that this stays as it is, you can move your house to the edge of the plot, and then place an extension to make it "connected" to the mountain. It works because it does not check for the boundaries when you add/remove extensions, but only when you move the house

[pulsar minnow]

You’d also think that maybe Kalec would show up to defend his girlfriend (the Sunwell) this expansion but from what I’ve heard he doesn’t show up at all?

[rain cave]

Why would kalec be especially connected to the sun well

Aside from being magical afaik it hasn’t got a connection to him

[pulsar minnow]

It has literally every connection to him

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Anveena_Teague

[dull sage]

Kaleocs Cornflakes be like: Would.

[rain cave]

Oh so obscure book lore

My favourite…

[pulsar minnow]

It was in-game too

She’s in the sunwell raid

It’s why kalec was a boss there

[rain cave]

Where

I thought the reason kalec was a boss is because his friend was the undead dragon that then mind controls him

[lavish raptor]

shes that lady floating after you kill kiljaeden

and kalec is like GOODBYE ANVEENA MY LOVE

[rain cave]

I’ve never once noticed this

[lavish raptor]

its before velen's rp

[rain cave]

Didn’t notice velen either

Since whenever I’m in the sun well raid it’s only been to blast through it for tmog

[lavish raptor]

i tend to stick around for it cos i enjoy that bit of rp.

liadrin in religious ecstasy

[elfin eagle]

I love the sunwell raid

It’s very sad vibes

[worn crown]

Great point!

[worn crown]

Great point too!

[pulsar minnow]

Also kind annoying we never even saw Ebyssian do anything in The War Within

Like cmon bro underground shit is supposed to be your flight’s whole thing

[clear apex]

Right?

He just exists

[rain cave]

Dragonflight features: spooky void teasing, questioning if the titans are more bad than we thought, underground zones, expanding the life domain lore and the dark heart

Oh wait…

That’s the war within

[uncut vault]

Man, if only we had a black dragon who explicitly left the dragon isles at the end of DF in search of the ongoing effects of Iridikron's alliance with the void

Perhaps one with a history of fighting the void, who even killed an old god....

[elfin eagle]

War within undermine patch should have been a space race to karesh themed questline

[uncut vault]

Maybe even one with a personal attachment to a main character of the xpac dating back to their character debuts...

A shame no such character exists

[rain cave]

I mean

[elfin eagle]

Sorry I’m high and I really wanted to get this idea out there

[rain cave]

Maybe in tlt they’ll be like

“Wait where is ebysian”

And we’ll find him chained up in iridikrons lair

Or wrathion if that’s who you mean

[uncut vault]

the Aspects themselves at least have an excuse of newly inheriting a kingdom to shore up and stabilize again

[rain cave]

I can’t recall

[uncut vault]

Ebyssian especially

but yes i mean Wrathion lol

[rain cave]

Maybe iridikrons got him locked up

Would atleast give anduin something to do

[uncut vault]

he's our foremost void expert other than Alleria, actively in pursuit of Iridikron's machinations (of which the only one known is the Dark Heart)

and the dragon cameo we get in the xpac is... Kalec lol

[deep pawn]

The writing hasn't been great past 11.0 base

which is ironic is after that is when Metzen took over.

@uncut vault do you know how people are telling the difference between 11.2.7 trading post and 12.0 trading post on the alpha? The scarlet sets feel they'd fit The New Dawn in January.

[uncut vault]

Do you mean the monthly theme names? They’re just in the files on the alpha

Or if you mean items, alpha has all the 11.2.7 data, but PTR doesn’t have vice versa

[dense plover]

^

[deep pawn]

Okay, cause I know mmo-c pointed out like the skyrazor mount as being 11.2.7 in particular

I wonder what holiday would even fit that scarlet set.

[dense plover]

not every month has a holiday

[deep pawn]

I know it's not a set pattern, but Blizzard loves to put 1-2 recolors on TP and make the rest free somewhere else.

To the point I often hold off buying TP sets cause there'll be a version I can earn without tenders fast.

[elfin eagle]

He took over the writing after 11.1

Midnight is his Tww isn’t

[clear apex]

they made it sound like he came in after they were months in dev for tww and a lot of that wont be his

he helped it be made into a 3 parter

[deep pawn]

I loved 11.0 base, great set up, depth, etc

And then 11.1 and 11.2 were shallow as hell

[clear apex]

i cant imagine though them cramming harandar into the 11.x

well, no they would have but it would have been like argus instead of a huge zone

i dont really get the whole goblin stuff? that felt like a left turn

[elfin eagle]

11.1 is underrated on how much it killed suspense

All of that great set up for it to take a complete left turn

[upper pasture]

they felt like it was the only time they could reasonably put undermine in the game

[elfin eagle]

The story wasn’t even rooted in Warcraft is my issue: it was a parallel to the events of blizzard and Kotic

With a quick 1 second “oh the ethereals are here too”

[deep pawn]

Undermine works if it was part of a 4 patch arc, not a third of the entire expansion I feel.

I like the zone and aesthetics but everything about the plot in TWW felt like it came to a complete halt after 11.0

Blizzard needs to fix the lack of story in the x.x.5s so much

You can't have 16 weeks with no plot movement

[upper pasture]

i truly feel like they coulda done both 11.1 and 11.2 as a single patch and made LoU as a mega dungeon and it would have been fine

but im sure all the goblin enjoyers would have complained about sharing a patch with the etherals

[deep pawn]

ethereals likely weren't planned at all

TWW was supposed to end at the Manifold and I guess the Rift of Aln where Azeroth was torn from

I'll be frank, Harandar seems like a more fitting conclusion zone than whatever we're going to get if it's about the mystery of Azeroth

[elfin eagle]

This

The anniversary patch was rough

Great story all this good will then just timewking after time walking after black rock depths after time walking

[uncut vault]

It’s weird too because you can tell that the whole through line of the xpac was us descending deeper in pursuit of the blood blood and Xal’atath, this zone that reveals Azeroth’s original cradle is the perfect place to have that plot climax

Instead, it seems like all of the black blood plot has been scrapped and replaced with Lightbloom

Which leads to really weird inconsistencies like Shaladrassil being corrupted by Lightbloom and not the old gods

[elfin eagle]

It’s still around in midnight

Isn’t it?

With the whole black blade

[uncut vault]

Nope, black blood is entirely gone

The Twilight’s Blade are just rebranded Twilight’s hammer doomsday cultists

[upper pasture]

maybe patch content *crosses fingers

[dry plinth]

I'm actually peeved dragons don't show up after the whole expansion of them inheriting back their status as Azeroth's defenders. Storywise, the only thing I'm looking forward to is Haranir, and the writing is really lackluster in acknowledging anything relevant in the past and closing plot holes. In fact, each reveal from their zone reveals new inconsistencies to ponder.

This is intensely frustrating and diminishing my excitement for anything but housing, which itself needs work

[deep pawn]

I'll admit killing the void and the titans in the same expansion would be fast, but I don't know if the story butchery has been worth it for me

Like you can tell the Sunwell is just replacing Beledar

[dry plinth]

The writing feels so inconsistent and aimless to be honest. The black blood line axed randomly, the Arathi not showing up, War Within feeling gutless and even skippable, Dragonflight not even being continued in any meaninful way. This is supposed to be a culmination of storylines but it feels so... scarce. Where's Anduin? Where's Thrall? Where's any of our relevant characters beyond the week's people of note?

[deep pawn]

And I will die on the hill that the Emperor of the Arathi wouldn't have just given up

[trim stratus]

Im wonder something .. What about hs is in midnight or even on early housing release, do its tide to your house or there is another way to tp to it?

[dry plinth]

You teleport to your house via the housing menu, not your hearthstone

[deep pawn]

though I wasn't able to figure out how to tp to my horde house as alliance

[trim stratus]

Also wondering atm house is just for comestic stuff, u cant really do nothing there?

[deep pawn]

it's cosmetic and RP

was always advertised as such

[trim stratus]

would be wild if u could learn cooking recipies in kitchen or having rested exp as tmog closet xD

[plain violet]

Wait really?

[deep pawn]

Are the shaladrassil roots at least near the rift of aln?

[elfin eagle]

I think the sad thing is

If they were just more creative Tww could have went even harder then midnight

[dry plinth]

No, there isnt much interactable. It's just cosmetic at the moment

[elfin eagle]

We really could have had a game of thrones style expansion where it’s just focus on different factions getting more and more tense if they just paid attention

[deep pawn]

Blizzard isn't good at sharp course changes

The don't like working fast

[plain violet]

B-but but... yeah this is a big inconsistency.

I mean I would have seen a zone adjacent to the sunwell, not the zone that was corrupted by the nightmare.

[deep pawn]

Is it at least the light took over after we killed N'zoth? 😄

[rain cave]

Can someone explain the rift of aln and Azeroth thing

I just thought the rift of aln was the place they made for xavius as his heart is the nightmare place

Also on black blood, I do think the twilight blade will be relevant to it in midnight potentially

Because Nzoth is the blade currently. Atleast if you assume he’s still in play

[deep pawn]

New lore is the Rift of Aln is where the goddess, aka Azeroth was born, she was removed.

goes back to her "heart is empty" stuff

[rain cave]

Ok but how? It seems entirely unrelated to Azeroth as a concept

[deep pawn]

Titans moved the world soul into the manifold

[rain cave]

Like Azeroth is a life being now?

I thought she was meant to be a first one

[deep pawn]

I don't think just being born in Haradnar makes her life

[rain cave]

So they didn’t even find the planet with with worldsoul in it??

[rain cave]

The dream

Rift of aln is in the dream, no?

[deep pawn]

the rift we fought Xavius was likely a dream refleciton

[dry plinth]

Theory: Lightboom was supposed to be from Beledar or something tied to TWW. They moved Harandar to Midnight and the story inconsistency occured where it's Shaladrassil instead...

[deep pawn]

Haradnar is also not fully in reality

[rain cave]

This is getting a bit convoluted

[dry plinth]

Oh fr?

I assumed so but like, is that confirmed? dope kinda

How does this tie into the Dream tho..

[rain cave]

I mean I theorised they were going to do harandar in tww and one part of the zone would be old God blood corrupted roots, and the other half would have light corrupted roots

[dense plover]

is that an inconsistency? isnt the intensity of the lightbloom new?

[dry plinth]

It's new (Lightbloom intensity), and it hasnt been explained yet that I know of. Like what hit Shaladrassil that hard w/ Light hasn't been revealed. Likely an event happened we don't know of IC yet, but it's... very much a weird turn on narrative direction. Black Blood would have felt much more at home in the narrative that's been established. That's the inconsistency

You have an established narrative (black blood infecting the roots) and abandoned it for Lightbloom

[rustic cliff]

If you put a chair in your house upside-down, does your character sit in it upside-down when you use it?

[upper pasture]

there's a drop down menu once you own both types of home

in the housing menu

[deep pawn]

I did, didn't see a teleport option

The UI is pretty rough so far lol

Like the "fill" option for walls isn't clear at all

[dry plinth]

Oh, watching the Harandar Campaign

Orweyna comments that it's Eversong's Light afflicting Harandar.

It is the roots of Shaladrassil, and the head is a Rootwarden who has become light-crazy and is infusing them further

[deep pawn]

oh fun bug, it thinks I don't own a house again

can I own a third house? Would that break stuff? Can I not get back to the ones I've already set up?

oh that's weird, houses disappear really fast from distance

[pulsar minnow]

Sorry! He was too busy having his character assassinated so he couldn’t be aspect!

Honestly I do actually like Ebyssian as aspect but we really don’t need to have had Wrathion’s character completely 180’d to set that up

Also RIP Wrathion’s gorgeous new model that never made it to the live game

[rain cave]

Tbf I do think it’s in line with him to not end up being aspect

I just think having him beefing with the other black dragon candidate as if either of them are going to get it is a bit pointless

When ebyssian just gets it

[pulsar minnow]

I agree he’s far too young to be an aspect

He helped kill N’zoth but that’s not the same as leading his people- frankly he’s never lead them

Granted neither has Ebyssian, but he did help raise every leader of Highmountain and has his ideals in the right place

[clear apex]

i really like the things you can do, very easy

using the main room they gave and sectioned it into 4 rooms

bedroom start

[quartz kelp]

since i just played 700 hrs of dune and absolutely love the building there, i'm kinda disappointed in how housing (in a designated zone) with complete buildings (no free form building iirc) seems to play out. would have loved 1-3 "subzones" in each continent in each expansion with a randomly instanced set of shown buildings when you venture to them, keeping the whole zone feeling safe from phallic builds but still allowing for some more creativity.

[clear apex]

good news is, they added in a report utton for builds

if you click on the housing pillar it says you can report for offensive exterior

[quartz kelp]

that IS good

[uncut vault]

The frustrating thing is that there are interesting reasons for Wrathion to not be Aspect: he's far more amicable to mortals than dragons, he only really took the burden of such a role because he assumed he was the only one who could, and the new Black Dragonflight that's arrived on Azeroth ultimately has very little in common with his leadership interests.

The issue is that none of those were given as reasons for why him not being Aspect would be freeing for his character, he was just deemed "unworthy" of it through a very contrived conflict that placed most of his positive character traits onto Ebyssian

[remote shuttle]

Yeah, it doesn't focus on it enough; but the narrative really does go into how Wrathion -isn't- power-hungry, in that way.
His short story had him with nightmares and genuinely afraid, fearing becoming an aspect; falling to his father's downfall - the whole "flopsweat" comment people never got was him genuinely panicking for the first time at Whispers.
He didn't want it - but he knew it was something he "was destined" for - since his Birth, Alexstrasza and the Reds had been praising him as the solution of the Black Flight, the importance of an uncorrupted dragon. He was the one present for the Raszageth talk with the other aspects saying they need to become aspects and activate the stones -To save the world.- and he threw himself on the sword.
"Why not trust Ebyssian?" - He was absent and had no want or desire in dragon life.
"Why not trust Sabellian?" - He saw his corrupted father's lieutenant of a War era and couldn't trust him with the fate of the flight.

[worn crown]

This, this, this, SO MUCH this

[worn crown]

This too

Metzen loves to rehash (or rework) old places (apparently nowadays with Silvermoon and possibly Northrend in TLT) just for the sake of it - I'm looking at you WoD and its pocket time travel shenanigans

I'm not against reusing old places at all, just please, make it really coherent with the xpac narrative and overall lore instead of "oh, nostalgia"

[clear apex]

sad we didnt get that draenei hub city

[lavish raptor]

might get it later

[upper pasture]

i wouldn't be surprised if we get blood elf and draenei neighborhood updates sometime in midnight, most because draenei had their heritage questline about making a home and then BE because well.....it just makes sense as the horde counterpoint

[little hound]

Such a sweet couple.

[deep pawn]

only took 20 years

[ember blaze]

what am i looking at

[dense plover]

its just the dude complaining which is fully irrelevant to the content of this channel

[dry plinth]

this took 50 lumber (50 trees) i think profession item costs could be adjusted

[noble mica]

Epic

[fading lintel]

I managed to create a spiraling staircase ;D

So awsome how much u can do with advanced placing

Couldnt get further though because of not having any more platforms

[crude sigil]

oh, that looks good

[elfin eagle]

I will say this:

Tww idea sounded like the best xpac ever

Like from everything I’m hearing lol and 11.0 was incredible

[deep pawn]

It would have been epic but there'd be so many complaints about ending the void in one patch and the Titans coming back and dying in a few weeks

And we got a Silvermoon revamp out of the saga

But the cost is the story feeling strained

[elfin eagle]

I have faith in midnight tbh

Ignore Tww 12.0 sounding v cool

[deep pawn]

People are gonna be brutal if 12.1 is trolls

[elfin eagle]

I have some faith

The midnights fallen raid it sounds too much for it to just be trolls

[deep pawn]

I think Isle of Fangs is too large to be wasted on an 12.0.7 but who knows

Maybe 12.0.5 with a mega dungeon but that feels very early. That'd be like 6 weeks after launch

[rain cave]

so far it's looking like this is The WoD Within

the content we got was very good, but the expac was kind of sacrificed after a change of plans

to make the next ones better

[rain cave]

could be an evolving thing

big issue with places like undermine is they get abandonded quick

[deep pawn]

Yeah, the only reason I consider TWW better than WoD is delves

[rain cave]

what if the .0.7 patch gives us isle of fangs world content, before the main campaign there finishes with the raid in the major patch

[deep pawn]

I honestly enjoyed Tanaan Jungle more than I did K'aresh

The legendary ring felt more earned than the cloaks

[deep pawn]

That still won't stop the complaints about wasting a patch on trolls in the void expansion

[rain cave]

as long as they link it in, I think it can work

like nighthold and emerald nightmare being part of the legion expansion

especially because they're showing themselves open to having multiple raids

[deep pawn]

They linked in Undermine but people still felt like it was out of place

[rain cave]

I mean more like

"Hey here is the side story for this patch, and it links to the main story"

and then the main story is also the other raid released that patch

or vice versa

so for example, maybe the isle of fangs thing will link into the void somehow. Maybe we need the snake loas help or maybe the snake loa is an antagonist preventing the amani from helping our efforts fully

so we have that as a zone to do stuff in, a small raid there

then the amani, now being free to help us, can then lead into the 2nd raid inthe same patch

like how we have the voidstorm, loa and march on sunwell raids at launch

[deep pawn]

I still think that'll make people mad

[rain cave]

why?

people have been pretty accepting of the shift ot the multi raid stuff so far in midnight

[deep pawn]

I meant stoping the void plot to deal with venom trolls or whatever it is

[rain cave]

yeah but I'm saying the venom plot could end up tying IN to the void plot, and not replacing it entirely in the patch

e.g. isle of fangs being a .5 or .7 patch zone, but then in the major patchwe get a raid there, but it's only ONE of the raids in that patch, while them major patch expands voidstorm and gives us new void stuff

and also tying the venom story into the void by having a thread between them

like the twilight blade wanting something there

[deep pawn]

I don't think any amount of story tie in will appease people mad at a troll patch

[rain cave]

why would they specifically be mad at a troll patch?

that just seems like fantasy racism 😭

if we had a legion expansion with effectively 2 patches of elf story, we can spare half of a main patch for some troll action in a void expansion

especially because the void expansion IS ALSO AN ELF EXPANSION

and trolls and elfs are linked, we even have the haranir there

[pulsar minnow]

Also Kithix’s body is still somewhere underneath Zul Aman.. they built their city atop his corpse. It is very likely that Isle of fangs has something to do with that

[lone mantle]

A constellan expansion, please!

[deep pawn]

They specifically said we'd see no old god stuff in Midnight

So I'll be shocked to see blood or Kith'ix

[pulsar minnow]

We literally have the twilights hammer in this expansion

In Zul Aman too

[deep pawn]

Yes as supposedly a group that's swapped it's allegiance to the more celestial void

[rain cave]

is that said anywhere

because I still think N'zoth could be leading them

setting up a n'zoth teamup against xal

and hopefully setting up playable naga

[deep pawn]

Blizzard were straight up asked if we were going to see the black blood or Kith'ix under Zul Aman and they said "no, we're focusing on the space void"

They also said to not expect Azshara or Naga lore in Midnight

[rain cave]

holy miss batman

[deep pawn]

It's possible they lied about both things to make them surprises, but eh...

I don't see why they'd lie

[rain cave]

but yeah they have also lied about that before

but if they're not lying

that's like

fumble of the century

[deep pawn]

When the Voidstorm concept art leaked I was so hoping for an Azshara bottom of the sea zone again

[pulsar minnow]

They can still focus on cosmic void and have kithix

[rain cave]

the weird void things xal uses in the trailer and the key art have very azshari gauntlets

[pulsar minnow]

Do you have the actual line because I know they didn’t NameDrop him

[deep pawn]

Then why bother to say no you won't see old gods

[pulsar minnow]

Because kithix isn’t an old god?

[little hound]

Kith'ix is a Lieutenant of the Black Empire, isn't he? Not an old god.

[deep pawn]

I'll have to dig up the interview from post Gamescom but they included old god minions

[little hound]

Every old god has MINIONS, That doesn't make them Old GODS.

[deep pawn]

When Blizzard said "old gods" it was a catchall for the tentacle side of the void

[little hound]

Pretty sure Metzen and others on Interviews have already confirmed that "The Old Gods are DEAD". So doubt they'll pull a new one out of their asses, when the focus is Xal'atath.

[rain cave]

I mean.. nzoth

[little hound]

N'zoth is also dead, man was literally reduced to atoms and reoriginated.

[pulsar minnow]

“Thinking about the Black Blood in Midnight… It’s not something that you are likely to fight against or see… With the idea of a trilogy, we have the opportunity to introduce elements and try to pace things out. And these elements could be true later or not. We can introduce characters in the same way. So, we’ve learned some essential things.”

[rain cave]

he's in the blade, no?

[pulsar minnow]

This is what Maria Hamilton said about it. So like- no they didn’t say no old god minions they said no black blood storyline

[rain cave]

that's a very popular theory that has not been addressed at all

in fact the black blades role in "killing" nzoth was never explained it was very vague

[little hound]

It has been theorycrafted and speculated, but the keyword there is THEORY. It has far from been confirmed.

And seeing as the blade struck only N'zoth's Carapace, not his actual body? I doubt it at best.

[deep pawn]

"We're not likely to fight against or see the Black Blood again in Midnight. It's Old God related, while we're focusing more on the cosmic side of the void in Midnight, which has its own distinct visual theme that's very airy, has a lot more light, and crystals."

[rain cave]

like blizz have hinted heavily that N'zoth wanted us to use the black blade on him, since he masterminded the events to get it into our hands in a way

they made the blade dissapear

[pulsar minnow]

So yes they’re talking about the black blood lmao

[rain cave]

and we saw the blade seperate a part of his personality

[deep pawn]

And you think Kith'ix fits the airy space void? I would be surprised to see him after all the interviews

[rain cave]

so to me blizz have made it explicitly vague what happened to n'zoth, which sure means he could be alive or dead. But why tease like that if he's actually just dead

[little hound]

I take theories with a pinch of salt, and when blizzard has firmly said that "Old Gods are Dead", i'm pretty sure they aren't leaving any of them out of that phrase. I'll believe it when i see it, i don't tend to indulge theories often, of "What If's".

[rain cave]

it doesn't de-canonize or contradict this statement though

[deep pawn]

The black blood reviving him is the only thing that'd make sense as he's an old god minion and it was the blood that let Xal control the Nerubians

[rain cave]

the old gods ARE dead

[pulsar minnow]

I wouldn’t expect to see him in Voidstorm if that’s what you’re asking. But resurrected by Xal Atath to assault the Amani and Quel Thalas? Yes?

[rain cave]

as in, their bodies may be

Sylvanas is dead, Uther is dead,

[pulsar minnow]

Kithix, the Amani, and Xal’Atath already have a long history. It wouldn’t be out of place whatsoever in the void expansion

[little hound]

I feel like Xal'atath's "Void army" is more about the Dominaar, Shadows and all such. She doesn't really use alot of the "Fleshy/Tentacle" K'thir creatures, that the Old Gods used.

[rain cave]

and Nzoth is also part of the elf AND xalataths story

[little hound]

N'zoth has been part of MANY People's stories, that's a wide span.

[deep pawn]

They can do it but I feel like they don't wanna do tentacles with Xal

[little hound]

I agree on this.

Xal'atath is about cunning, deception and manipulation.

[deep pawn]

Is there a singular dungeon boss that's an old god minion?

[rain cave]

yeah but.. specifically he's been a VERY large part of the elf stories, and he is the one who enabled Xal to do the very premise of the expansion

[little hound]

Not yet.

[rain cave]

my point is that I think if we see Nzoth or any of that old god lore

it'll be on our side, against xal

N'zoth is not teaming up with her that much I feel certain of