beta-ptr-spoilers

[clear apex]

thats like saying 'on or before Dec 30th" for games, my guess is they dont have a set date yet

[rustic cliff]

Or before is still an option though

[autumn dagger]

is zul aman corrupted or is it supposed to be a vision?

[upper pasture]

it still gives us a better idea of when it's coming out instead of a ""2026"

[deep pawn]

I still think prepatch in January and expansion in February

[lavish raptor]

My guess is that Lemix will either end right on expac pre-release or in prepatch

remop ended on TWW pre-release

[deep pawn]

I think prepatch because of the stat squish

[lone mantle]

[clear apex]

?? why the laugh?

a LOT of people on forums asked for this

[lavish raptor]

momy

[little hound]

I never read forums

[clear apex]

i dont either except to see about that stuff

cesspools

[rustic cliff]

Where’s that thing about the raids from?

[little hound]

DAMNIT!

Xal's Portrait didn't include feet.

I want a refund rn.

[mighty wolf]

3rd is Arator?

[deep pawn]

press kit

[oblique nymph]

are we sure these are just 12.0 raids?

[lone mantle]

Yes.

[ember blaze]

and where is the glow?

[deep pawn]

yes

it's 9 bosses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiBvDdtMXQ4&ab_channel=WorldofWarcraft

So zone footage b-roll

So the concept art we saw was Voidstorm

[upper pasture]

harinar is giving zangarmarsh 2.0 ((or should i say 3.0)) lol

[zealous sedge]

https://us.support.blizzard.com/en/article/000379843?_gl=1*rd66i6*_ga*MjE0Njk4MjM4MS4xNzU1NjMzNTAw*_ga_VYKNV7C0S3*czE3NTU2MzM1MDAkbzEkZzEkdDE3NTU2MzU2MTAkajM1JGwwJGgw&blzcmp=app&flowTrackingId

anyone catch this

sorry if reposted

[deep pawn]

CAPYBARAS

[autumn dagger]

so it's canon then that elves were blue before arthas and when they changed to blood elves they painted everything red

[lavish raptor]

yeah blood is red

[deep pawn]

Devourer is RANGED

[pulsar minnow]

something interesting- these npcs are wielding the fangs of ashamane

[pulsar minnow]

this sounds so good

God this expansion looks so beautiful

[ember blaze]

still waiting to see if its a DH support or nah

[crisp steeple]

where are these pics from?

[pulsar minnow]

blizzard press center

https://blizzard.gamespress.com/en/World-of-Warcraft

[zealous sedge]

so assumingly Harandar is gonna be underground?

[rare urchin]

Still think they should have kept this table up on Wowhead. was more accurate.

[pulsar minnow]

most likely

[crisp steeple]

ty

[zealous sedge]

I'm guessing we will take a portal to get there

voidstorm im kinda meh about

but maybe it will be cool

[ember blaze]

so she's finally being used

[pulsar minnow]

lfg

[rare urchin]

(ab)used

[ember blaze]

always liked her character concept

[zealous sedge]

Yes finally we can retire Brann

[autumn dagger]

?? where's this from?

[ember blaze]

mmochamp apparently

idk

[zealous sedge]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24228402

[pulsar minnow]

oh! Silvermoon is a zone

[glass flicker]

I like Valeera, but she's a Rogue. How will that work?

[zealous sedge]

this link has basically everything you need

[rare urchin]

sneakily

[glass flicker]

I hoped we'd get Salandria.

[pulsar minnow]

Not to toot my own horn but my copium paid off

[glass flicker]

She's a pally. She can fit all three roles.

[ember blaze]

lool dream stuff

[pulsar minnow]

That looks like beledar at the center no?

So this suggests that all the world trees are being fed by some power they are reaching towards

[clear apex]

think it says its by the world tree roots, so yeah

[little hound]

Beledar doesn't have roots. And if you do the disc fragment quests with the lore, Beledar is just one of many shards of energy that reside in Azeroth. (Beledar being one of them)

[pulsar minnow]

Also, the Void Storm is a different world

[pulsar minnow]

Im fully aware

[little hound]

Shoulders, That shield and 2H Mace.. Did they just put Warfront Armor in the Cinematic?

[pulsar minnow]

but the light source in the Harandar looks to be a crystal underground

[zealous sedge]

SIlvermoon is gonna be the neutral capital surely?

[clear apex]

yes

[little hound]

99%.

[clear apex]

how could alliance quest if not XD

[zealous sedge]

I can't read

[pulsar minnow]

Transmog is getting an overhaul

[zealous sedge]

oh my god it looks so good

[little hound]

I saw, and i'm all for it.

[zealous sedge]

yes big fan of that

free tmog!

[clear apex]

so its like belameth

[zealous sedge]

I like the auto swap

great feature

[little hound]

Yeah.

[pulsar minnow]

I pray they update Dracthyr and Worgen transmog to be separate based on form

[zealous sedge]

also Prey I think is gonna be cool

[little hound]

Prey is just another term for "Bounty", isn't it?

[zealous sedge]

essentially

[ember blaze]

also how did they get there

[zealous sedge]

Im guessing Anguish is the currency

[pulsar minnow]

I wonder if they'll do warmode tie-ins with this system

[little hound]

Most likely teleported by mages, assuming Anduin is with them too with his newfound faith.

[little hound]

I'm all for it.

[autumn dagger]

they came from the sunwell itself it seems

[pulsar minnow]

It could be us the players being summoned to Silvermoon city

[autumn dagger]

ah that too but they're too uniformed lol

[pulsar minnow]

So our pre-expansion event or event that starts the expansion is us being called to Silvermoon

[clear apex]

yeah but it looks like they walk out of the sunwell

[ember blaze]

hmm i wonder if it will have lorewalking like stuff

[zealous sedge]

I know we are still figuring out 12.0 but what story even fits with .1 and .2?

[zealous sedge]

i am very curious about the starting experiences

[autumn dagger]

patience lol

[crisp steeple]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J70RTBh_nwA

[zealous sedge]

i know haha

[autumn dagger]

army of light or arathi or argent crusade 👀

[little hound]

Zul'jin had one-handed love sessions, and got grand children!

[pulsar minnow]

oh so the nemesis' in delves were definitely test runs for this

I pray they're like open world nemesis bosses

[zealous sedge]

ok i like it but I wanna see the rewards

[crisp steeple]

teases some mount at the end

[zealous sedge]

This is confusing to me lore wise

[crisp steeple]

as a human paladin, all this elf stuff doesn't really tickle my fancy, though it does look really cool

[autumn dagger]

the amani work to thwart zandalari plans or the other way around?

[lavish raptor]

So is there a new level cap or no

[pulsar minnow]

going back to this- the light at the center might be the sunwell?

[glass fulcrum]

There’s a WARLOCK npc using the fire mage artifact in follower dungeons iirc

[zealous sedge]

No it sounds like the Zandalari helping the Amani, but they are an alleid race no?

Unless its a bad sub faction of the Zandalari

[autumn dagger]

90

[pulsar minnow]

it might be a temporary replacement while they work on the weapon assets

[lavish raptor]

Where does it say rhat

[autumn dagger]

main page

[little hound]

I love that Ghostlands have healed but..This looks more like an Overgrowth.

[pulsar minnow]

The Dreamfrift - Single-boss raid where players join the Shul'ka to hunt an "undreamt god." - VOLJIN??

[clear apex]

theres a lv80 boost, boosts are always 10 levels lower

[pulsar minnow]

That's harandar supposedly

[autumn dagger]

maybe this is the dreamrift

[little hound]

Vol'jin isn't a God though, he's still vibing in Ardenweald.

[crisp steeple]

looks like new hawkstrider mounts

[pulsar minnow]

no he fused with Rezan. He took his place as loa of kings

[little hound]

Blood Elf structures in Harandar?

[zealous sedge]

Nothing about the talent system i noticed. Assumably we'll hear about it on Thursday?

[autumn dagger]

and the ghostlands haven't completely healed, windrunner spire is still shrouded in darkness

[little hound]

I know he fused with Rezan, Loa's are Demigods though, and he is incubating in his Wildseed in Ardenweald when we last saw him.

[glass flicker]

This naming convention is Zul'jarring, if you ask me.

[clear apex]

are they finally going to update Belf paladin mount?

[novel zodiac]

i have a serious question, who's the army at the end of the cinematic?, the arathi or the alliance?

[little hound]

Hehe, they teased the new Trading Post gryphons in the trailer 😄 (I think they're the ones we'll get in September)

[little hound]

They are using Alliance Warfront armor and WEapons so..

[pulsar minnow]

Yes, which is why he is "undreamt" he hasnt reached the dream and thus rebirth

[little hound]

Most likely Alliance.

[clear apex]

looks like a mix of a lot of paladins, so both

?

[zealous sedge]

assuming army of the light

[clear apex]

in all seriousness, what good is faction identity or class identity if they keep having so many alliance themed mounts for horde and belfy looking stuff for alliance? and night elf items for horde?

[little hound]

Looks like the TWilight's Hammer is back at it again, Corrupting Elementals and erecting their Obsidian spikes..

[autumn dagger]

I like that the new silvermoon incorporates blue motifs here and there and some of the buildings have been aesthetically streamlined to resemble nightborne buildings and thus bring more cohesion to the queldorei roots

[little hound]

Eeey, they included the Mythic Dimensius mount up right 😄

[novel zodiac]

class identity doesnt fucking mather anymore when there's plate sets that you can buy in the trading post and use them as a mage lmao

[little hound]

Housing lets me park my mount outside? Neat!

[zealous sedge]

definitely allied with Xal no less

[little hound]

Considering the Twilight's Hammer is ADDICTED To "Heralding the Void and the End of the World"? Yeah.. Either that, or they are just clowns wanting her blessing.

[zealous sedge]

yeah they could also just be seeking attention

[clear apex]

yet they refuse to really give a lot of cloth stuff to anyone else, except the occassional dress

[novel zodiac]

most devs are morons

[little hound]

That's what they usualy do after Deathwing stopped babysitting them.

Although tbh, Deathwing also just used them as pawns, none of their leaders ever gate a sh*t about them in truth 😄

"Ooh, Devoted Void fanatic, marvelous tools!"

[deep pawn]

That's just an arathi set right?

[glass flicker]

Yeah, it's the PvP plate set.

[deep pawn]

I'd still love KT pallies

[glass flicker]

I agree, it makes no sense they can't be. "But the class mount tho"
Just give them a recolor of the Dreadwake with holy colors.

[little hound]

They reworked Dragonshawks so damn well, they look more like Sun/Void PHoenixes. They better make a HD Al'ar with Midnight 😄

[deep pawn]

Magisters Terrace is a dungeon

[zealous sedge]

I'm so excited for that one

[deep pawn]

So we're going to lose somehow at the end of the Void Spire which corrupts the Sunwell

[zealous sedge]

im betting 12.1 is gonna sunwell 2.0

[deep pawn]

Then we march on the Sunwell

[zealous sedge]

oh nvm yes

[deep pawn]

12.0 should end with us retaking Quel'danas

[zealous sedge]

you're right

oh man the custom group finder is gonna be such a mess since I mainly pug lol

I know you can sort what you are looking for but still

[deep pawn]

https://i.imgur.com/Slmvq06.png

[deep pawn]

eh? What's going on?

[glass fulcrum]

It’s been like that for over an expansion lol

[zealous sedge]

I'm saying like since there are 3 separate raids its gonna be weird pugging and using the custom group finder since there will be so many different groups to sort through

[deep pawn]

you just search the raid you want?

People don't use the custom tab for raiding anyways

[ember blaze]

it's weird though that theyre only advertising void elf dh

[deep pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QjPesrkfU3c

Haranir have the Dawnwell

[novel zodiac]

what does slot-based means?

[deep pawn]

you save a transmog to an armor slot

vs the armor item

so if you get an upgrade it doesn't break your mogs

it's like ff14's glam plates

[pulsar minnow]

Looks like Quel Thalas will be apart of the old world

[novel zodiac]

ooooh, makes sense

[rain cave]

if voidstorm is both another planet, a zone AND referred to as "the voidstorm" for the purposes of the big portal overhead

and is seemingly different a bit from the normal void we've fought

is it xalatath's homeworld? do we think

[deep pawn]

I hope we fly up into the voidstorm

[rain cave]

get the goblin cannon out guys

shoot us into it

also do the harranir look wayyy more high res now to anyone?

or atleast more animated/ designed

like that face looks more detailed and emotional

looks like a new idle animation as well

[ember blaze]

new tech lol

[novel zodiac]

same happened with nightborns

right?

[ember blaze]

i gotta say, this isnt as hype as a whole event dedicated to blizz/wow

and a bunch of stuff just slapped on a youtube short

[warm topaz]

i would have done a annoucement like the DF video

i think is a terrible decision to do it like this

[ember blaze]

and its better to have fans of the game as the audience lol

specially for cinematics

[warm topaz]

i mean, in this kind of events WoW reach to more people

[little hound]

Pretty sure 60% of the Audience was there for WoW and the perks of in-person attendance

xD

[glass fulcrum]

What even were the perks other than trying housing

[deep pawn]

that's it so far

[glass fulcrum]

Ah

[deep pawn]

we don't even know how they're extending talents

I guess the prey system

but it's just eh

[clear apex]

Housing clash at 4am

[pulsar minnow]

Having trouble keeping up with the news- they confirmed more talents?

[deep pawn]

No, but we're getting 10 levels

and Blizzard says you get something every time you level

[ember blaze]

so are the major features just the prey stuff and housing

[deep pawn]

seems like it

plus voidh

[ember blaze]

i dont wanna include that

because it involves a single spec for one class already in the game

[autumn dagger]

Again, I feel like housing takes a biiiig chunck of the features

[deep pawn]

it shouldn't

[autumn dagger]

Theres also 11 delves, 8 dungeons,

[deep pawn]

it was developed by an entirely separate team in Boston.

Housing should not have affected the main expansion team whatsoever

[warm topaz]

i dunno how budget works tho

[autumn dagger]

Yeah but it has to be weaved into the other systems

[warm topaz]

is the budget individual to each team?

is it the same for the ip

[autumn dagger]

So that all the systems already in place have synergy with it

Also we dont know how dense content and story wise the new zones are

[ember blaze]

also, arent elves supposed to have glowing eyes?

Why do the cinematic characters have regular eyes

[little hound]

I mean for social and unsocial aspects, Housing is going to be a big chunk of content, both on release and build into the future.

[pulsar minnow]

Maybe because it’s harder to show emotion with them

[ember blaze]

like why are they all normal

[pulsar minnow]

Also we’re getting less delves this time right?

[ember blaze]

seems like a rightful criticism to call them humans with elf ears

[autumn dagger]

I think something similar happened with draenei and nelves in thr bfa cinematic

[crude sigil]

11 delves at Midnight

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24228402
https://i.imgur.com/bYD90u4.png

[sullen dawn]

In Midnight, Eversong Woods, Zul'Aman and Silvermoon City will finally be a part of the Eastern Kingdoms proper--no loading screen required. Players will be able to fly, walk, or ride directly to the new zones from anywhere in the Eastern Kingdoms.

[novel zodiac]

pls tell me that's true

[deep pawn]

so we're having a bit less delves

TWW launched with 12

• nemesis

[glass fulcrum]

I bet they don’t make another fungal folley (short with environmental assistance)

[deep pawn]

eh I'm sure they do

[zealous sedge]

I can live with 1 less delve at launch

but thats alaso a big chunk of evergreen content

so I can see why features are a little less than some have expected

[lavish raptor]

Maybe Azuremyst will be patch contents

[zealous sedge]

I mean especially with light vs void and we ignore the Draenei?

and naaru

[clear apex]

I hope they don't get ignored 8(

[warm topaz]

what you guys think about the cinematic?

[zealous sedge]

neither do i

[zealous sedge]

I like it

[deep pawn]

it's 2 but yeah

[warm topaz]

i've heard some hard mixed opinions on it

[clear apex]

Cinematic was OK

[deep pawn]

cinematic was fine, but it didn't need to be all secretive about who's showing up

No chills like I got with BfA or DF

[glass fulcrum]

Cinematic was fine, just not as hype or oh shit as others

[warm topaz]

i liked this one much more than DF one

[glass fulcrum]

Like even Shadowlands cinematic was like o dam what

[novel zodiac]

much better than anduin crying

[glass fulcrum]

True!

[clear apex]

Let's see you get emotionally abused

[glass fulcrum]

I had forgotten about that one 💀

[deep pawn]

Maybe I just don't care about the Light as much, but yeah, this cinematic felt empty

[clear apex]

It also felt less effort? Compare it to older ones and it doesn't seem as rendered

[novel zodiac]

couldnt be me, im no woman

[deep pawn]

the art was great

Xal felt like she was phoning it in though

She clearly lacks passion if it's not Alleria

[clear apex]

So you're being sexist? Great look bro

[autumn dagger]

She broke her dark heart

[lavish raptor]

toxic yuri

[quartz lintel]

Do you think that this "Unatural God" from the second raid synopsis is the 5th old god ?

Or mutated Ki'thix ?

[autumn dagger]

No, it seems to be smth from the emerald dream

[sullen dawn]

Wth lol

[autumn dagger]

Some sort of failed wild god

[ember blaze]

someone tell those dreaming mages from dalaran to stop dreaming

[sullen dawn]

Such mystery wow

[autumn dagger]

I noticed it too

Either too human or too AI lol

[clear apex]

Yall like mysteries?

[crude sigil]

mysterious secrets mysteries ...

[zealous sedge]

reminds me of WoD and the usage of the word savage

[rain cave]

World of Warcraft: LLMidnight

[ember blaze]

there should be another realistic cinematic yeah? 🤔

i wonder if we'll see some new characters 👀

[zealous sedge]

we did get another minor cinematic for TWW

potentially

[ember blaze]

yeah we normally get 2

DF had two

honestly cant remember anything before that

[zealous sedge]

the one thing I don't like about the cinematic is how abruptly it starts

it just feels like we're thrown into it

[warm topaz]

wth SL we got 2 as well iirc

[rain cave]

the new cinematic is called intercession

[ember blaze]

BFA had 3 right

[warm topaz]

BFA it's BfA

[rain cave]

like it's not the only one

it's not labelled as a reveal or cinematic trailer

[zealous sedge]

that is a very interesting point

[warm topaz]

BFA had 4 iirc

[ember blaze]

BFA had like 2 whole cinematics around saurfang didnt it

[zealous sedge]

yes

[ember blaze]

that dude got a lil too much 💀

[warm topaz]

3 if we count the ☠️ one

[ember blaze]

i counted that as 2

whats the 3rd

the one with zappy boy at night

2 vs sylvanas

what am i missing

unless u mean the reveal one

[zealous sedge]

are you coutning the one with thrall in nagrand

[warm topaz]

the stormwind one

50 Anduin 50 him

[deep pawn]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/in-world-of-warcraft-midnight-whats-old-is-new-again/1100-6534043/

So story starts right after the cinematic

Eversong Woods

then Zul'aman and Harandor are parallel, pick which you do first, then Voidstorm is end zone

[deep pawn]

holy hell, vigor has been removed

I'm guessing professions will just restore a charge of the movement stuff

[cinder beacon]

I’m just gonna say it and run away, but I just don’t see how Metzen is back or involved. I fear the new narrative will be: no he’s doing the last titan

[deep pawn]

People are already saying the split raid tier is all his idea haha

[pulsar minnow]

I doubt it

Metzen is very interested in the cosmic stuff and the light and void chief among them

This is definitely his involvement

[cinder beacon]

Xal is not Metzen at all. Obviously. This is just all Xal again. There’s no war. No rock n roll.

[autumn dagger]

Oh metzen is THE biggest fan of the light

[autumn dagger]

People grow old, their storytelling changes

The arathi are 100% metzen

[dense plover]

regarding cinematics - i dont believe this is the LAUNCH cinematic, which is typically a longer version of this type of cinematic

but i could be wrong

[ember blaze]

what does that even mean 🤔

[dense plover]

theres also definitely stuff missing - where did the army come from, who are they, when does this happen

[ember blaze]

i mean we're waiting on the one that shows the zones and stuff no?

[autumn dagger]

She's a woman... and women can't rock... smh

[pulsar minnow]

we'll probably have a lead in event

this is like the BFA cinematic

[ember blaze]

already saw people on the forums crying about seeing a woman

[autumn dagger]

Goddamn

[pulsar minnow]

keep in mind Metzen plays a paladin

[ember blaze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYdFLUBjwCU

oh damn this came a year later

[deep pawn]

what's odd as hell is this cinematic predates all the questing

[zealous sedge]

mhmm

[pulsar minnow]

pre patch event will definitely be the void storms forming over the world

then an attack on the sunwell leading into the cinematic and expansion

[dense plover]

oh interesting - zone order is our choice again

makes sense with 3 separate raid instances

[ember blaze]

i prefer a linear storyline

[warm topaz]

it's Eversong, Zul'Aman and Rootlands as a choice and then final is Voidstorm

[dense plover]

technically its quelthalas, with eversong being part of it?

[warm topaz]

yeah probably, i said Eversong but it's probably Quel

[dense plover]

makes sense - each of those zones has a raid

voidstorm affects all 3

[warm topaz]

it's like the DK intermission where you have to choose between ice world or poison world

but you need to do the other one to advace

[dense plover]

its more like all 3 are going on simulataneously

and void storm is last

it makes sense

this very much explains why they split the raids

[warm topaz]

(i remember you like DK (i think) i hope you do cause that reference only works if you do 🤣 )

[warm topaz]

3 raids it's also a really interesting choice

[dense plover]

1 for each zone

capping their stories

void storm will clearly be what leads us to next patch

[warm topaz]

Morgan in an interview back then said that they wanted to do mini raids again

and they deliver indeed

[warm topaz]

isn't the one in Quel'Thalas? we have no info on that one cause BIG SPOILERS

[dense plover]

we dont have a raid in voidstorm is what im saying

[ember blaze]

so will all raids be available together 🤔

[warm topaz]

that's a good question, i think we'll find a lot more information in the coming days with the panels and interviews

[pulsar minnow]

i wonder how tier gear will work then

maybe only voidstorm drops tier

[warm topaz]

we do

[dense plover]

my guess is theyll be slightly staggered, with either one or both of the small raids releasing first, then the 6 boss releasing 2 or so weeks later

[dense plover]

oh weird ok

[warm topaz]

kinda like Emerald Nightmare?

[dense plover]

guess because quelthalas is coming later yeah

[deep pawn]

Gamespot called it Eversong which is likely why people are saying that

[dense plover]

i figured the sunwell was gonna be corrupted at the start

[glass fulcrum]

I absolutely love the shot of stuff pouring from the void in the sky, I'm a huge sucker for that kinda imagery

[deep pawn]

It looks like it gets corrupted after the Voidspire

[dense plover]

yeah i just am correcting it when i see it since official art says quelthalas with the continent area being queldanas, which also includes zulaman

[deep pawn]

and then we resecure it in the final raid

[dense plover]

good thing the sun well is not attached to silvermoon

[deep pawn]

they did build a bridge for some reason

[ember blaze]

its not? 🤔

[glass fulcrum]

lol on blizzard store

kinda funny idea, creative

[pulsar minnow]

So the continent is called Quel'Thalas - the zones are Eversong, Zul'aman, Harandar, and Voidstorm

[dense plover]

isnt it on an island

[dense plover]

no

Continent is Quel'Danas

[pulsar minnow]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24228402

[dense plover]

Quelthalas is the zone

[pulsar minnow]

quel danas is the island

[glass fulcrum]

^

[dense plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/406285497846071306/1407520715883806730/1236998.jpg?ex=68a66751&is=68a515d1&hm=c2aae462f0c4822047738911a9b2cd54451d472ec05a0eacc453b855e94fb8fe&

the image literally calls the zone quel thalas

oy

[glass fulcrum]

Isle of Quel'Danas is where Sunwell raid is

[dense plover]

but then the website says eversong

wtf

what a mess

[glass fulcrum]

Eversong Woods is where Silvermoon City & Ghostlands are

[dense plover]

this will hopefully be cleared up when they push a website for the expansion

[glass fulcrum]

I'm more confused with them fighting at the Sunwell and you being able to see its light in the distance when the Sunwell is completely indoors

[dense plover]

idk where the quel thalas art comes from then

did wowhead make that?

[glass fulcrum]

probably on the press release site

[dense plover]

thats super inconsistent

[clear apex]

you can go into eversong and silvermoon

[dense plover]

so eversong+silvermoon is quelthalas

zulaman+quelthalas is queldanas?

b/c thats what wowhead says in their newest article

and we have a features deep dive tomorrow right?

[dreamy dove]

Anyone knows when void elves DH will be available?👀👀

[dense plover]

wth prepatch

probably

definitely not before

[glass fulcrum]

could be with housing tbh

[dreamy dove]

SOOOO few more months xD

[tulip sun]

Thursday

[clear apex]

this is quelthalas

[dense plover]

no - housing is advertised as early access

they specifically say with the expac for the spec

[dense plover]

where is zulaman normally?

to the right of the ghostlands?

[clear apex]

idk honestly

[pulsar minnow]

to the right of ghostlands

[dense plover]

that makes sense

[pulsar minnow]

also thats definitely a misspell on the wowhead website on Quel'danas since thats the island at the very top

you can see it in some shots of the preview

[clear apex]

found this image also, so should be over there

[pulsar minnow]

im so happy with how quel'thalas turned out but god am i interested in whats going on with Harandar

[deep pawn]

There's a Dawnwell there

[pulsar minnow]

is it not the sunwell that the roots are meeting at

im just genuinely curious idk what a dawnwell is

[jade basalt]

Nah they meet at Harandar

[pulsar minnow]

yeah but where is harandar is my question - is it under quel thalas or somewhere else

[jade basalt]

Dawnwell is whatever those life botani dudes are using to spread the Lightbloom to the surface and to Eversong

Some energy source

[deep pawn]

why is there so much confusion on how many delves there are?

I've seen two sources with 7, but the list of names is 10

[pulsar minnow]

it seems the website lists too few

thats why i was confused

[deep pawn]

I can't remember where I saw the original list lol

[pulsar minnow]

it said 2 in eversong, 1 in harandar, 3 in voidstorm, and 2 in zul aman

so 8

but clearly that isnt right

[deep pawn]

0 in Zul aman per wowhead

[pulsar minnow]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24228402

this article seems to be the most up to date

[deep pawn]

yeah, found it

[pulsar minnow]

it looks like the images saying like 0 delves and calling eversong quel thalas got taken down

something definitely wasn't up to date

I definitely love the vibe of this expansion. It really feels fresh somehow

even though its kind of lacking in transformative class updates

[dense plover]

i mean - we dont know whats coming

we havent gotten a deep dive yet

[deep pawn]

there has to be something you get while levelling

[pulsar minnow]

you're right i meant to add yet to the end of that

[deep pawn]

I'm shocked they did just do a blurb of "extended hero talent trees"

Apparently someone spoke to Ion in a hallway at the con and got some info on DH. Aldrachi is being removed from Vengeance, and Devourer and Vengeance will share one called Annihilation. He may not have known he was being recorded and the recording was deleted out of caution.

[pulsar minnow]

I really hope the collectors edition of Midnight comes with a replica Dark Heart

Kinda like the BFA CE

[autumn dagger]

I mean if zulaman and windrunner spire have been redone then the same goes for the ghostlands, even if they dont mention them right?

maybe the ghostlands don't exist anymore as a thing because they were the most decayed part of eversong woods?

[warm topaz]

you guys think Voidstorm and Rootlands will be connected to the zones?

[deep pawn]

its still darker but its healed

[warm topaz]

like, be able to go there with skyriding

i don't remember the exact word

[pulsar minnow]

They put all the effort into the underground airlock system it would be a shame for Haradar not to be

and I really hope we can fly into the storm above quel danas to get to Voidstorm

[warm topaz]

my question is how do we acces Rootalands

it says that the zone is connected to the roots of the World Trees

[pulsar minnow]

Its just where the world tree roots converge

[warm topaz]

i imagine the roots are massive but

[pulsar minnow]

so it could be under Quel Thalas

[deep pawn]

I am not sure of the source, but apparently you just take portals to Harandar and Voidstorm

Though it's a missed opportunity to not fly into Voidstorm

[pulsar minnow]

That would be kinda lame tbh

[ember blaze]

didnt someone say it was below zulaman 🤔

[pulsar minnow]

I did but I might be wrong

there was a dungeon that looked to be half zul aman and half harandar

but looking again I was wrong

[zealous sedge]

this might be a hot take but part of me kind of hoped we would get like a couple less delves to start the xpac that way we have more in the .1 and .2 patches. Because as it stands right now I feel a bit burned out on all the Khaz Algar delves and have barely done any in Season 3. Like M+ is great because the rotation really does keep things fresh. Yes there are different storylines but idk it just doesn't hit the same.

[deep pawn]

there is

it's 10+1 vs the original 12+1

[zealous sedge]

oka yes there are 2 less

i was thinking maybe more like 7-8

[deep pawn]

https://imguscdn.gamespress.com/cdn/files/BlizzardLive/2025/08/190050-39c70aa9/WoW_Midnight_GamescomReveal_ZulAman_015.jpg?otf=y&lightbox=y&sky=74ae6810e7a276ac893055800c666a38c7ad0e5c30877dcd8563223c3fbb55d7&w=1024&maxheight=4096&mode=pad&format=jpg

[pulsar minnow]

Oh new long boi maybe

[zealous sedge]

and we get 3 each major patch

[deep pawn]

This looks like you should be able to fly into that storm lol

[zealous sedge]

that looks cool

[pulsar minnow]

that'd be such a miss if they dont do it

[zealous sedge]

if that cant be a mount ill be sad

[deep pawn]

https://blizzard.gamespress.com/midnightreveal

tons of screenshots here

[pulsar minnow]

its really crazy how well they were able to keep the vibe of the original Eversong woods

[zealous sedge]

i wonder if there are any sort of remnantas of what was the dead scar

atleast something to denote where it was

[pulsar minnow]

Would love if it had different kind of foliage

[zealous sedge]

yeah

i could see a side questline of us healing the remaining bits

[pulsar minnow]

maybe those sunflowers from the Sylvanas Warbringers cinematic covering the scar

[dense plover]

its definitely fully healed

its been more than a decade in game

[zealous sedge]

I mean one would assume

but blizzard does funny things

[deep pawn]

I can't wait to see the nameplate updates

[zealous sedge]

can we get a chat UI update as well lol

[warm topaz]

so, do you think 11.2.7 it's just Housing?

maybe the elves Lorewalking that was datamined in 11.1.7

and was never implemented

[ember blaze]

dh spec

[warm topaz]

even if they advertised it for Midnight?

[zealous sedge]

why do I feel like the prepatch event will actually be us defending the sunwell but then losing it. Seeing as how the final raid in 12.0 is March on Quel'Danas meaning we lost it at the beginning.

or I guess it could be part of the opening quest line

[deep pawn]

March is after Voidspire

[granite flame]

The raid could be us defending from the void's march on quel'danas

[deep pawn]

the cinematic is placed before questing

[ember blaze]

and? so was housing

[deep pawn]

we'll learn in October I guess

[glass fulcrum]

they're already selling it as a christmas ornament

[pulsar minnow]

well yeah but its one sided

its like a pin

[warm topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/mariah-carey-mariah-carey-christmas-mariah-carey-defrosting-christmas-gif-26336885

[pulsar minnow]

im talking like a full scale replica

[glass fulcrum]

ah yea

[elfin eagle]

You just know this is actually gonna be the craziest raid of all time

[pulsar minnow]

Well it’s two bosses

[elfin eagle]

Yeah they’re both gonna be big

[warm topaz]

so that raid is after Voidspire

[elfin eagle]

Yeah

And it’s two bosses

[deep pawn]

one bridge boss, one boss at the Sunwell

It could be Xal at the Sunwell

[zealous sedge]

Will we kill her at the sunwell?

Or will we “lose”

[upper ermine]

My bet's on lose

Metzen said things will "spiral wildly out of control"

[deep pawn]

I feel like that's already the Voidspire

[zealous sedge]

Potentially but honestly up the ante imo

Let’s lose the sunwell

[lean yew]

where is this from? Like what video has these details

[zealous sedge]

This was from a YouTube short

[lean yew]

oh

[zealous sedge]

It was detailing some of the dungeons

Yeah a lot of the info is kind of scattered lol

[lean yew]

I absolutely loathe that the 2 panels arent til thurs then saturday

[zealous sedge]

Bro same

[lean yew]

Its like "here it is!"

but none of the details lol

like void dh hero spec?

[zealous sedge]

A gamescom is not an adequate space to announce an expansion I’m sorry

Like atleast just do a Warcraft direct

[lean yew]

It was fine in 2015 b/c they immediately had panels

but the fact the panels are spread out

its just annoying

[zealous sedge]

Agreed

[lean yew]

Its hard to be super hyped when I dont have more details lol

its like a peacemeal announcement

[zealous sedge]

I work Thursday thru Monday so I’m gonna be playing catchup

Also the panels are like deeeep in the AM

In US time zones

[lean yew]

Also curious when the alpha starts

[zealous sedge]

We were theorizing probably September tbh

[lean yew]

TWW was april and august launch right?

[zealous sedge]

I believe so yeah

[lean yew]

end of august, early april

They included TWW alpha on the last year roadmap

[zealous sedge]

April 17th ish was alpha

[lean yew]

but didnt for midnight

So mid - late september at the earliest

Although, the other thing too

[zealous sedge]

I’m curious when we see a 2026 roadmap

[lean yew]

Housing is going to be out in December

So if it's not part of the alpha testing

[zealous sedge]

Yeah 11.2.7 earl access

[lean yew]

then they dont have that much to test on the alpha/beta

[zealous sedge]

Tbh I think housing is mostly done

[lean yew]

like realistically its...zones, dungeons/delves/raids

[zealous sedge]

But it will be probably available for testing in PTR

[lean yew]

and the new spec

[zealous sedge]

Yep

[lean yew]

Theres no new real endgame system other than prey

theres no hero talents to test

[zealous sedge]

They haven’t said anything about talents I’m assuming we hear about it during the deep dive?

[lean yew]

If there was something new it wouldve been in the features

I just dont think there is anything new lol

[zealous sedge]

Well yes but they have to have some sort of power system with leveling

[lean yew]

Maybe theres a prey talent tree from 80-90

[zealous sedge]

Like if they didn’t do that it would be a first

[lean yew]

But prey is just outdoor

[zealous sedge]

Yeah

It’s kinda Weird there was no mention in the feature trailer

[lean yew]

Not really, I mean, back in like wod/legion/bfa era we didnt get much while leveling

[zealous sedge]

Also there wasn’t even mention of lvl 90’ij the feature trailer I think

[lean yew]

thats why a lot of peoples reaction in my circles was its kind of mid

like housing is hype

[deep pawn]

apparently someone asked Ion in a hallway

[zealous sedge]

True but you had artifacts/ garrisons to take place of that. Midnight there is nothing we know of.

[lean yew]

lmao asked ion in a hallway

[deep pawn]

It's not 100% confirmed but it sounds like Voidh will have Aldrachi Reaver and a new one called Annihilation that it'll share with Vengeance.

[lean yew]

That makes sense

has that been shared w/ the dh discord?

[deep pawn]

There was a recording but it's not sure it was consent given

so the DH discord wants nothing with it

[lean yew]

ah

its fine, we'll know thursday

[zealous sedge]

Honestly that might be a Saturday thing lol

[lean yew]

meh

[zealous sedge]

Because Thursday is about the “world”

[lean yew]

ill take the word of ion

[zealous sedge]

Saturday is systems

[deep pawn]

it was just his voice haha, fel hammer said take it down fast

[lean yew]

oh

meh

[zealous sedge]

Yeah I believe it

[lean yew]

Why would they take aldrachi reaver from veng?

aldrachi reaver is the veng hero talent tree

lol

[zealous sedge]

They aren’t taking it

It’s just one of the options

[deep pawn]

Cause Havoc throws glaives more than Veng

[zealous sedge]

Each spec has two options for hero talents

[lean yew]

yes

[deep pawn]

And Fel-scarred works really well for Veng

[zealous sedge]

Also yes it’s mid range

[lean yew]

void dh will have aldrachi and annihilation

veng will have fel scarred and annihilation

so veng will lose aldrachi reaver

when aldrachi reaver is the "vengeance inspired" hero talent tree

[deep pawn]

I agree it's weird cause the Aldrachi weapons were the tank one

[lean yew]

vengeances artifact talents were aldrachi galives

glaives

yeah

[zealous sedge]

Oh sorry yes I understand

Yeah that is weird

[deep pawn]

But the tree is based around throw glaive and "Combos" which feels more like havoc.

[lean yew]

But thats what veng was based on really, the combos, where as havoc was always more demon within themed

[deep pawn]

really? Veng felt more about turning pain into outbursts

[lean yew]

To me it makes more sense force havoc to lose aldrachi and gain annihilation

But whatever I guess we'll see

[zealous sedge]

I know we saw the feature overview video but I wonder if there are other things we don’t know about

[deep pawn]

I hope Anihillation is cool whatever it is.

[zealous sedge]

Nothing major obviously

[deep pawn]

there has to be new talents for the other 39 specs

[lean yew]

yeah i was surprised we didnt see "level to 90"

[zealous sedge]

Yes that 100% haha

[lean yew]

but isnt that the point of hero talent trees?

to avoid that

theyd have to rebalance all 39 specs

[zealous sedge]

It’ll all be passive talents anyways

[deep pawn]

we are levelling though

[lean yew]

Thats not how the talent system works tho

[zealous sedge]

Unless they have a borrowed power system in mind they are keeping close to the chest

[lean yew]

if they add 10 more talent points you can pick a whole bunch of talents in the tree

and you'd have access to like

almost the full tree lol

[deep pawn]

I meant 10 new hero tree points

[zealous sedge]

I could see them not revealing it no knowing we’d get no real information until the panels

[deep pawn]

so no "choice" just extensions

[lean yew]

I just think theres nothing being added

[zealous sedge]

Yeah just hero talent extensions

[upper pasture]

Or we just have to wait for the deep dive

[zealous sedge]

I mean I basically agree with you

Yeah…

[upper pasture]

It would be extremely odd to not have levels added even if they squish us or whatever

[deep pawn]

There's never been an expansion where specs don't get something new, Blizzard just before TWW said that they know expansions have to have that and that adding evergreen stuff is a future blizz issue

So I'm expecting just 10 new hero tree points

2-4 of which are current tier sets

[zealous sedge]

Yeah the offices page does say level 90.

Also no mention of stat squish either

I’m sure they’ll get into it

[lean yew]

I guess they could just give us 5 points in each

5 class and 5 spec

[zealous sedge]

More likely it’s they add more nodes to the hero talent tree. Not the class or spec tree

[deep pawn]

nah, that's too messy

yeah, hero tree expansion sounds most likely

[zealous sedge]

The only other option is a borrowed power system with its own upgrade system

[pulsar minnow]

according to T&E revamped Silvermoon is the most complex city ever made in WoW

[deep pawn]

Hah, Ve'nari says this if you're undead.

[deep pawn]

I honestly thought we'd get Netherlight Crucible where you get to upgrade pairs of talents.

so it's talents, but in a very controlled way

[zealous sedge]

My own reason that something that might actually happen still is because they wouldn’t want to reveal a new power up system just on a feature video when they can’t talk about it until Thursday or Saturday.

Still very unlikely at this point.

Cause I’ve definitely been thinking for a while how they evolve the hero talent tree and it’s hard to do without being too redundant.

[deep pawn]

HAH, I love this questline

[novel zodiac]

man its really weird the whole 3 raids at launch

im guessing they dont happen all at once in time

so how are they going to release them?

[lavish raptor]

might be like tbc

where there's gating

[upper pasture]

It’s 3 raids upfront with more to come later

[deep pawn]

It's possible they delay Quel'danas one or two weeks

[upper pasture]

Not all three expansion raids up front

[deep pawn]

it's still one tier

it's 9 bosses split into 3 instances

[zealous sedge]

Yeah the raids follow a distinct storyline I’m sure they’ll be timegated by like a week.

I mean the solo boss raid while still part of the story feels to me like the “outlier”

[novel zodiac]

yeah i know

but if they dont happen all at the same time, and there's lore behind them

are they releasing at the same time?

[deep pawn]

we don't know

[novel zodiac]

there has to be a reason why its not only 1 raid

like SoO

[deep pawn]

they wanted to be in different areas without portals like SoO?

[novel zodiac]

we started in pandaria and ended in orgrimmar

[lavish raptor]

like i said its probably gonna be like tbc

[deep pawn]

Or its a Sepulcher thingy

[lavish raptor]

where you have to do the raids in sequence

[novel zodiac]

makes no sense

you have to leave the raid and enter another so its the same amount of loading screens

[deep pawn]

Probably to delay it a week or something

[lavish raptor]

going back to "the raids probably wont open up at the same time"

[deep pawn]

it's also 3 story modes

[pulsar minnow]

Probably because they want to tell different stories that aren't restricted to specifically a single patch zone at a time

[zealous sedge]

Also the first raid has 6 bosses so people can still fill the vault no problem

[pulsar minnow]

And again- the end of TWW and Midnight is very much TBC vibes that they're going for

[zealous sedge]

Even if it’s timegated for the other raids

[zealous sedge]

It’s totally Metzen coded

[novel zodiac]

meaby its (raid->consequense -> campaing or chapter -> raid -> campaing or chapter -> raid)

or something like that

[deep pawn]

MoP had split raid tier the most recently

Heart of Fear lead into Terrace of Endless Spring

[ember blaze]

so is vdh just having 3 options?

[novel zodiac]

so dhs are getting 2 new hero talents?

why

[pulsar minnow]

1

Annihilation

[novel zodiac]

what's this then

[pulsar minnow]

Aldrachi already exists

[novel zodiac]

a

[pulsar minnow]

DHs have two hero talents

this is their third

[novel zodiac]

yeah, im stupid

lmao

[ember blaze]

so they will actually strip away a tree a dh has been playing with for 2 years?

[lavish raptor]

well

for havoc

[deep pawn]

for veng actually haha

if the recording was actually Ion

I mean stuff gets reworked all the time

[lavish raptor]

either way i think the DHes will live

[deep pawn]

and neither DH spec really liked Aldrachi

they use it when it's numerically powerful, but they don't actually like it

The writer had fun on this questline

[worn crown]

I received a marketing e-mail fron Blizz about Midnight, in Brazilian Portuguese, and it says 9 delves 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

[upper pasture]

9 delves seems shorter than what we got at the launch of TWW, hopefully we see more added in the 12.X patches

[upper pasture]

Must be a translation error? I got this

[worn crown]

I guess it is very possible

[sullen dawn]

11 delves on the list too

[harsh mason]

Well, here we are back to 3 raids in one raid tier)))

[upper pasture]

huge tbh

[deep pawn]

there's now 3 different answers haha

[sullen dawn]

11

[deep pawn]

I know, but they've also said 7 and 9 now haha.

[dense plover]

someone somewhere fucked up

[harsh mason]

Have we mentioned the new battleground 40 vs 40?

[deep pawn]

lagfest ahoy!

[harsh mason]

By the way, Salhadaar will be the boss again in one of the raids)))

[ivory meadow]

extremely insignificant detail, but they seem to have allowed outlaw rogues to dual wield daggers (you could off-hand one, but not as a main-hand or you wouldn't be able to use Sinister Strike nor Dispatch) as in the Prey system short showcase the rogue is using SS with dual daggers equipped near the end.

[glass fulcrum]

Or maybe they finally let you transmog between the two 🙏

[upper pasture]

or maybe rogue rework and being less weird about weapon restrictions

[deep pawn]

you sure its a dagger? some swords are short

[ivory meadow]

it's using the AA animation specific to Daggers

[deep pawn]

woo, my old 60 boosts are 70 now

knew that was coming

do I use them or wait til they're 80 boosts in 2 years

[glass flicker]

Housing showcase in about seven minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/live/-G9jd6IDGGM?si=7OhUqXXnJcisRKQW

[rain cave]

Wait for velf dh

[deep pawn]

I don't think I like Velf that much for a DH one dunno

[rain cave]

I do think it's funny that the expansion with the blood elves at the middle, the alliance are getting a new thing

[uncut vault]

I'm shocked theyre not doing nightborne for it tbh

[rain cave]

Could atleast give blood elves shaman, tapping into their old spirits of the woods

Or something

[uncut vault]

you dont even need to stretch a justification, they've flat out never addressed what happened to the felborne post-Legion

theyre so easy to rope into the Illidari

[rain cave]

Maybe they'll add them in a patch

After thalysra gets to be active for a bit

[deep pawn]

time constraints or unwillingness to commit the art needed

even if it just means adjusting the scales/tattoos

All the beautiful art this expansion you think they'd do more for the classes

this also would have been the time for paladins for all

Like come on, make some damn horsies

[uncut vault]

the lack of class stuff beyond DH is definitely puzzling

I assume we'll get hero talent news at the deep dive

[deep pawn]

we better haha

[sleek solar]

I wonder what will happen to the old Quel Thalas zones

[deep pawn]

I wish they had just done the deep dive video they originally announced.

[deep pawn]

probably talk to a bronze dragon or there's a portal to the old one still in EPL

[uncut vault]

it'll stay exactly as-is

the old zone is on the Outland map, this new one will be on the Eastern Kingdoms map

they'll likely just move the portal in Eastern Plaguelands somewhere less conspicuous

[deep pawn]

Apparently there's concerns about the Eastern Kingdoms X/Y grid not having space for Quel'thalas. How do you think they'll do it?

Negatives or shift every coordinate location

[uncut vault]

I figured it would be the "same map", but actually just something like Zaralek or the Coreway tbh

No clue how they'd pull that tech off in the open air though

[deep pawn]

Especially since you can see Stratholme from southern Eversong

[ember blaze]

that whole class needs it lol

[ember blaze]

save them for bard

[deep pawn]

I'll have a 90 boost then or it'll be a hero class

[ember blaze]

hmm i hope every class gets one new hero tree

otherwise ama worry housing team taking all the budget

[deep pawn]

There won't be any new hero trees except for DH

Extending current hero trees is a strong possibility

[sleek solar]

I want a dual wielding Survival hunter

Or at the very least transmog into a 1h weapon

[upper ermine]

I badly want a dedicated ranger class instead of just MM

[rain cave]

IMHO beastmaster should be the melee spec and survival should be mixed

Like survival hunters already have that "using everything I have" fantasy, they're the rugged hunters

But rexxar is one of the most mistreated class rep npcs in the game

If not the most overall in the franchise

In hearthstone he uses a bow, in WoW he's not even using a possible weapon combination. He's the quintessential beastmaster but he's melee like survival

And he's meant to be one of the champions of the horde but only gets wheeled out for 5 minutes of screentime occasionally

Plus he's a race that everyone wants to play but blizzard never add

Even in hots he's ranged and throws axes instead of using them in melee

Talk about inconsistent direction and representation

[sleek solar]

Well he is only HALF an ogre XD

[rain cave]

I do think it would be interesting if they converted hero talents into something that's more in the class tree in future. Like a chunk of your class tree IS your hero talents. And then expanding their scope and changing their function. So maybe bm can choose to be melee or ranged, but it's not like you're designing class talents for both with the hero talents on top, the hero talents for melee dictate the base tree as well

If that makes any sense

Also, with the new void dh spec sounding like a mixed ranged/melee design, I expect they could rework survival like that

[uncut vault]

Survival already is that haha

[deep pawn]

Devourer is probably more ranged than survival

[uncut vault]

It definitely will be, Survival is basically the most ranged you can go without being outright considered a ranged spec atm

you only need to go melee for focus spenders, and even then you can spend from 40 yards 25% of the time

[tulip sun]

I think adding new specs might replace getting new classes

[rain cave]

Don't they have mostly melee stuff for their rotation?

Isn't their main ranged stuff just serpent sting, kill shot and bomb

I mean more like if they got a playstyle that explicitly focused on going between mid range and melee

[ember blaze]

eh, i think they can get more involved cause for survival/ret its more quality of life than any meaningful hybrid gameplay

[rain cave]

Even something like coordinated strike transforming between two modes depending on your distance from the target, but you need to alternate between them at least sometimes

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/nidalee-frenchmaidnidalee-frenchmaid-league-nida-gif-27320246

[rain cave]

Like from range you get a pheromone shot to mark, then if you get into melee and coordinated strike someone marked it makes your pet go berserk for a time

Could even do some cool stuff with spear throwing like nidalee yeah

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/samira-pentakill-league-of-legends-carry-penta-balanced-gif-20833806

so many cool concepts from league lol

like u can make range/melee hybrids engaging

and hopefully it is like that and not just quality of life 25y range

[rain cave]

Something that could be interesting and give survival a niche could be if you can plant traps around the encounter room that when activated give a sort of buff that's equal to half a bloodlust in power, but exhausts you for less time

Like you kite the boss to the trap when you want it or put it in areas of the fight you know certain phases will be in

Requires loads of coordination and would mean you can't use bloodlust but in certain fights it might be the pick

And it could be a different type of buff, like a. Crit one

[ember blaze]

that would be very frustrating gameplay lol

[rain cave]

Or turning damage taken on the boss into a DoT like aug vokers van do

[ember blaze]

that would only work in world content only, or pvp

[rain cave]

Well you wouldn't need to take it is the thing

Like if you don't want to use it. Don't, it wouldn't be mandatory and shouldn't be balanced to be stronger than lust in most situations

It should be a high coordination side grade for specific encounter types like if the boss has multiple burn phases

But ofc if you want to just bloodlust, hunters have that now so you can just use that

[sullen dawn]

Imo TLT was always
planned as the next class expansion

Tinker/Artificer is such a free win

[tulip sun]

Well we wont know that for a while

[sullen dawn]

True

[tulip sun]

But unlike races, I think there's a very real end to new classes in the future. It'll just become too much to balance and such

And when that happens, new specs would be a way to add new playstyles

[sleek solar]

Necromancer and bard is my hopes, but tinkerer is very popular too

Tinkerer way more popular than necromancer

[ember blaze]

and how would that change anything

every spec still has to be balanced against everything else

it's the same thing, youre just constraining fantasies

[tulip sun]

One spec with existing weapons and such vs a new class with armor, 3 new specs and so on

[rain cave]

Agreed, people need to stop expecting new classes

For the health of the game

New specs maybe. New hero talents maybe

Where it fits

[sullen dawn]

Sure. Tinker/Artificer and Warden are the only two more classes id like to see added

[ember blaze]

if they didnt stop at the original for “health” reasons, stop expecting them to stop now

[rain cave]

Honestly I could see them even doing one spec hero 'classes' in future

[sullen dawn]

Apart from that they can use class skins or glyph system rework to add new class fantasies

[rain cave]

This is reductive and full of fallacy and we both know it so please stop lying to yourself

[ember blaze]

you need to stop being delusional about no new classes

[rain cave]

We all like new classes, but there's a reason most games have a limit on what they offer

[sullen dawn]

I think wow has space for 2 more classes

And a couple more specs to some of the existing classes

[ember blaze]

yeah like the famous competitor, ff14 not releasing any

oh wait yes they do

[rain cave]

I'm not being delusional. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm simply stating things that line up with general game development principles as well as the direction blizzard is moving in

[ember blaze]

what direction? you dont work there lol

[rain cave]

They can't keep releasing new classes forever

Neither do you

So..

[sullen dawn]

And they wont. But they will release at least 1 more

Probably 2

[ember blaze]

it doesnt work both ways

[tulip sun]

I honestly dont have any classes i am really eager to see. So its whatever to me. Races on the other hand...

[rain cave]

I agree on this

I think we'll see one maybe two more

[ember blaze]

the paying customers of this game expect new content and that includes classes

you may disagree but it aint stopping

[rain cave]

The game doesn't need new classes.

[ember blaze]

bro you can say that about anything

[rain cave]

Look at monk/evoker player numbers for that

[sullen dawn]

The reason I think class skins / glyph rework is important is allows them to give us new class fantasies without adding to balancing complexity

[rain cave]

Aye

I agree

[sullen dawn]

So after the next 2 or so I think they'll lean on that instead

[tulip sun]

New content doesnt guarantee classes.

[ember blaze]

look at DH its one of the most popular ones and was the newest

[tulip sun]

We cant have new classes every other expansion for another 20 years

[rain cave]

People have wanted dh since literally vanilla

[ember blaze]

yeah but so what

[rain cave]

It was a missing fantasy

From base lore

[ember blaze]

new class, people liked it, its populat

[tulip sun]

Thats just too many

[sullen dawn]

Like theoretically you could add a blademaster class skin for monk

[ember blaze]

speaking of direction

[rain cave]

But if they keep adding classes, the balancing gets harder for everyone not just numbers wise but also design

[sullen dawn]

A "thousand blades" skill could map to "fists of fury" very well

A blink type thing instead of roll

[ember blaze]

remember how they said evergreen features like hero talents are a future them problem

they will prioritize fun now

vs balancing it in the future

[rain cave]

If you say they will keep releasing classes, on even another 20 year time scale. What will a new class be?

[sullen dawn]

Sure but also classes take a lot of dev time

Class skins are faster as mostly models and animations

[ember blaze]

and you guys are committing the mistake they admitted was wrong

you are forgetting the fun part for the video game

[sullen dawn]

And once again, I DO think we'll get 2 more classes

[ember blaze]

anyways

[rain cave]

"Me'dan-mancer" new class, uses everything!

[tulip sun]

We are just being realistic

[rain cave]

I'm not

[sullen dawn]

Mary Sue spec

[ember blaze]

isnt that first sentence a hint at something for the player

[tulip sun]

Classes are a lot of dev time to even maintain as we go season to season. So expecting new one infinitely is absurd

[rain cave]

I think not adding new classes will lead to more fun in the long run by keeping the design space cleaner, balance easier, and leaving classes open to fantasy expansion.

[ember blaze]

its not talking about housing is it

[sullen dawn]

I know most imagine tinker/artificer to be a mail spec (myself incljded) but itd be interesting if it was a cloth spec. Then that would free up mail to go to Warden, which be the first all melee mail class

Spellbreaker imo could be a class skin for warden

[rain cave]

But does warden have enough to be a full class?

It already uses rogues as a base

[tulip sun]

Yeah and you can still add new styles via specs, less work and time commitment than a full new class. Like the void spec for DHs

[sullen dawn]

Currently no, but it could easily be expanded. What it does have is a distinctive theme/flavour which is more important

[rain cave]

I could see a warden hero spec shared between havoc and subtlety

[sullen dawn]

I was thinking Warden would be slower paced. Would feel almost like a plate class even thoguh wears mail

[rain cave]

I think that's honestly the way forward with hero specs, new ones shared between 2 classes specs

[ember blaze]

the ones who hunted dhs? 🤔

[rain cave]

Lich Frost mage and dk

[sullen dawn]

Ye

I really feel Warden could be expanded to be a full class thst all races could use. The "jailer/police" class fantasy is surprisingly rich

[rain cave]

Demonic transformation veng and demo

Shadowflame fire mage and evoker, or shaman depending

[tulip sun]

Warden feels very racially themed though. Very specific to Kaldorei

[ember blaze]

sounds awful

[rain cave]

Arcane trickster for arcane and outlaw something like that

[ember blaze]

some hero trees already feel awful because its trying to make 2 specs work that are way too different

[sullen dawn]

I would see it being adopted more globally the way monk was. I feel like Warden (i.e. martial) skills could be learned by anyone

[rain cave]

Tinker could honestly be a survival and rogue shared spec imo

But it deserves a full class

[sullen dawn]

Martial is a cool rp archetype