beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

Hell one ethereal that turned to the shadow surmised the same. They actually all died when their planet was destroyed

[pulsar minnow]

Hence why the patch is called Ghosts of K’aresh

K’aresh is gone. It’s people too, they live but yeah- they’re basically ghosts

[deep pawn]

It's a tragedy, but after 100s of thousands of years, they must be so tired

[pulsar minnow]

Idk. I can’t really speak for a fictional race lol

I mean the wastelanders keep fighting for survival on K’aresh, and Ve’nari and friends are still trying to restore the ecosystem somehow

So clearly plenty still have a purpose and reason to keep going

The ethereals had to do whatever they could under impossible scenarios. They didn’t really expect the barriers to waste them into noncorporeal beings

[deep pawn]

Locus Walker knew

He chose this fate/damnation for his people

[pulsar minnow]

he didnt lol

He only found out later on after the barriers were put up

but by then they couldn't bring them down because dimensius was literally right on top of them

[deep pawn]

Xal implies he was well aware of the consequence.

[pulsar minnow]

it doesn't matter what was implied the audio drama literally covers this

He realizes things are going bad when the ethereals start getting radiation burns from the arcane, and some start going crazy (withered). In order to protect themselves from the radiation they wrap their skin in bandages.

Locus Walker realizes they're becoming incorporeal when he turns off the bedside light and notices his room isn't fully dark because arcane is coming out from under his girlfriend's bandages

[deep pawn]

And it's not just the arcane, Xal deliberately caused it with his help.

[pulsar minnow]

Xal’Atath helped him with the explosion

She was not directly involved otherwise

Xal’Atath comes in after the end of the audio drama

[deep pawn]

You think she's outright lying that she helped transform them? She doesn't lie often

[pulsar minnow]

well this is what we definitely need clarification on because i almost feel like these stories were written at different times lol

because in locus walker's account she might be described. He talks about a presence suggesting him towards using the reshii wraps to power the city for instance

We're missing a chunk of the story right now for sure. but as it stands currently. Locus Walker wasn't aware of the consequences prior to the barrier's construction

[deep pawn]

At least those quotes read as if The Ravel worked with Xal to turn people into energy.

as the only way to "survive"

oh weird, logged back into my shaman and got 1500 more rep somehow. Renown 6

[pulsar minnow]

yeah and that's where everything is all confused

i definitely agree they need to explain it better

because like, there's two different stories being told in the audio log and audio drama, and then the story in game lol

[deep pawn]

I'll generally take the game over outside materials, but who knows

[pulsar minnow]

Ok! I watched Nobbell recap the audio drama. There was a bit of dialogue I missed. We're both right lol

So their transformation was not yet complete when Salhadaar dropped the barriers. It was like halfway there. Locus Walker has a passing mention that together with Ve'nari he was able to succeed in defeating Dimensius (Omitting Xal'atath was there too)

So filling in the blanks here- it seems that Xal'atath made herself known afterwards, and then struck a deal with the Ravel to give her the Reshii Ribbons to transmute everyone and then blow up the planet to escape and kill Dimensius. Except, knowing what we know the Ravel screwed up and didn't kill Dimensius.

[deep pawn]

is there only 4 curios per type this season?

Cause damn they suck this time around then

that or the other curios require bountiful

[upper pasture]

I think there’s also one from the delve boss too atleast I got one when I killed her on ?

I’ll have to check when I get on but idk how many of each I have

[deep pawn]

finally got a 5th

[zealous sedge]

According to the wowhead article there are 5 of each

[deep pawn]

maybe it was bugged

[zealous sedge]

Reading through the curios and you’re right they are definitely not as good as last season

They are very passive

Like I miss the little robot dinosaurs

[upper pasture]

Idk the 5% health thingy one seems good

I forgot which one it’s a utility one

Quizzical something or another

[deep pawn]

5% dps is pretty meh still compared to others

5% health on tanks sucks

[upper pasture]

Yeah but it also heals you, which is nice

It’s like buffs you and then heals you for uhhh…5% of the damage that you do over the time of the buff?

Which depending on how much it procs that’s good for solo dps I guess

I’m liking the random buffs you can find the little misprint branns is funny

And the footballs making a comeback is nice too

[novel zodiac]

so, if maps dont drop until you reach lvl 2 in the delve's journey

[zealous sedge]

Will just have to see how they do in practice I guess.

[novel zodiac]

can i farm that? or there's a cap?

[zealous sedge]

Yes correct

You can farm journey xp I believe don’t quote me on that though

[novel zodiac]

and what happens if i buy the beacon that summons the nemesis

and im not lvl 2

it wont drop a map?

[zealous sedge]

But next week with bountiful there should be that archive quest from one of the chest drops that gives you like 3k delvers journey

[zealous sedge]

I want to say you need lvl 2 to even buy the beacon

[novel zodiac]

it gives 1.5 according to wowhead

[zealous sedge]

Ah yes you are right

[novel zodiac]

if i had 2k undercoing i could buy it right now, it doesnt say that i cant

[zealous sedge]

Yeah ignore what I said you can buy it

Level two is where it will start dropping from bountiful delves

But the beacon is separate and usable

[novel zodiac]

and it drops a map even if im not lvl 2?

just want to make sure

[zealous sedge]

It’s a little vague I guess

It says it won’t “drop”

Until unlock

But I feel like that’s only natural drops from loot

Not the nemesis beacon

Maybe try Reddit or the forums to double check

[novel zodiac]

yeah, i will wait until someone buys one and tells if it drops or not lmao

just trying to minmax one heroic item lol

[upper pasture]

There was a cap in season 1 and 2 but it’s something you aren’t gonna hit unless you run multiple characters each day with 4 keys so not something you’ll hit in the first few weeks realistically

[ember blaze]

💀

[austere gazelle]

The Untethered space is not that Untethered it seems... You can't even use mount of fly in your "untethered" form 😞

you're still "tethered" to the ground

apparently the epilogue will be in the end of Al'Dani dungeon

they removed it for now to not spoil stuff ( obviously )

[austere gazelle]

the nemesis actually drop some resonant crystal and a few valorstone

( for now )

Got it pop in my delve and the result was disappointing

Outside of Brann band new bugs ( including using skills from S2 without having them , or pulling stuff from afar vertically now instead of horizontally only )

[sleek solar]

This!

Alleria is so annoying rn imho

She has 0 sense of what needed to be done

I love Xal atath though, she actually feels like she did try, and is just toxic that they failed

• her sassiness, I love it

She could have just looked at me...

[rain cave]

I think tali and evitel summed it up well. I think it works.

She's not mad because she's unwilling to do it, she's mad because locus walker lied to her, and she's basically been told that actually, we (ravel) weren't victims we blew up our planet to live

Alleria had it clear in her mind that locus walker was a victim of dimensius, that his planet fell to him and she can trust his wisdom on how they lost so she van avoid that for azeroth

But now she's found out that no, they destroyed their own planet as a last and only option. He isn't an innocent victim, he lied and concealed truth from her. Plus he worked with xal, that would have been useful to know when she WAS the antagonist. This could have been avoided with earlier help and honesty from him.

Her trust and moral compass have been shaken up, as well as her worldview on what she might have to do to save azeroth.

[austere gazelle]

But tbh, Locus Walker logic sounds true anyway.

K'aresh destroyed and consumed by dimensius : dimensius unstoppable

OR

Destroying K'aresh at Dimensius' face to blow him up into piece and stop him

In all cases, K'aresh is destroyed so 🤷

But he should have been honest with Alleria from the start

My main issue is that if feels more like a way to join two narrative than something actually planned from the start

[rain cave]

Ofc yeah I can understand his logic

But I also understand why he kept it hidden

If you could do what he did anonymously would you?

Also he did explain that they had to keep it under wraps (hehe) because otherwise there would have been mass panic

[rain cave]

Also here, we've known that xal and him had some kind of connection explicitly since prepatch

Obviously I don't think xal was planned ask the way back in legion like this but she does comment on alleria back then

And even locus walker

Xal'atath whispers: He flaunts his defiance of the shadows. Arrogance will be his undoing. (interacting with Locus-Walker)

[sleek solar]

This

[austere gazelle]

I think they planned another direction for him. I think the original idea may have been that he was with the Ravel or some other group but betrayed them in some way. Since he did say back in legion that he couldn't spoke his true name or else he'd be swarmed by people opening up portal from everywhere to collect ' old debts '

And we still do not know his true name...
Some part of the story feel cluncky

This part of him apparently actin low and undercover but showing himself openly on K'aresh after

And Ve'nari saying that she was fleeing a cartel trying to assassinate her to collect debt but ends up leading a whole organisation that his not unknown right at K'aresh without any fear of being tracked down 🤔

Its like some part of Legion or shadowlands vanished

[pulsar minnow]

Still really wish they explored or gave us the tiniest nugget of information as to what was going on with Xolartios and Ve’nari. That feels a little too important to skip on

[rain cave]

Might be related to the eco dome stuff?

Zereth mortis felt quite similar to these new eco domes

Maybe it was something to do with reviving old native species, giving body to the untethered souls of the animals

And maybe that leads to eventually a cure for the ethereals

Sincr zereth mortis has all the blueprints and basically conjured physical forms

[austere gazelle]

Thing is, they never made the link between both. It's like Ve'nari vanished with a random dude to flee her assassin, and next she is leading a whole stuff in the open , Xolartios nowhere to be found, and not even a little explanation to make the link between before and now

Kinda disappointing

[deep pawn]

There's at least one traveller out in K'aresh

[tropic trail]

She does not even recognize mawwalker

While Aldalil - and only Aldalil - does!

[upper pasture]

I remember someone in the campaign was like “we better take care of this before more people show up or worse the mawwalker shows up” and I was like ???? Isn’t that me tho?

[lavish raptor]

They probably don't recognize the exact face of the maw walker

Additionally ve'nari references her own rules

So like I think she does recognize us, but can't exactly be like "oh yes person who terrorized our capital and helped me while I was in hiding"

Meanwhile Al'dalil isn't part of any secret societies or being hunted

[upper pasture]

I mean, I guess I get Ve’nari playing it off as she doesn’t know us out in the open but she should atleast mention it to us in just a quest or something

[deep pawn]

I mean that particular person sounds like he got the job AFTER the Maw Walker killed his predecessor

At best he'd have a description of someone

We're lucky Cartel Zo isn't after all of us

[zealous sedge]

I feel like the story team and Metzen were like let’s just ret con it as much as possible while still keeping true to the brokers and the cool aspects of SL. It feels like it was intentional that they don’t have any special dialogue with the character and not referring to them as maw walker.

[upper pasture]

Personally I’m glad all this SLs lore is seeping back into the game it will only be a matter of time until we get to see what happened with Vol’jin

[zealous sedge]

I do like certain aspects of SL even tho I didn’t really play past 9.0. If they keep the good stuff then I’m for it.

Definitely want to see Vol’jin as a loa

[deep pawn]

lol, a podcast made me realize we've never had a woman as an expansion final boss yet

Maybe in Midnight

watch Xal die in the launch season

[little hound]

Would be a fun meme, but they said she’d be the antagonist through the entire worldsoul saga so.

[deep pawn]

they didn't say that, that she'd weave in and out

I just don't see a place for her in TLT

they basically said she wouldn't die in TWW

[little hound]

We shall see. But yeah, i feel like if she does die in Midnight, TLT might give lots of its spotlight to Iridikron. He is waiting for the titans to return after all.

[upper pasture]

I expect her to be taken care of half way or at the end of midnight

[rain cave]

I've heard they originally planned to have her die in midnight but they replanned and will find a way for her to stick around

Maybe she isn't even the antagonist in midnight

And we need to get her to help us again

At which point she might end up doing sunwell shenanigans

[zealous sedge]

I mean we still don’t really know her end end goal

Like what she intends to do with the world soul

I mean Occam’s razor says just ultimate power over the universe

But could be deeper than that

Like is she just another player on the board that’s tried to harness the world soul just like the Jailer or the Burning Legion? Or is she the biggest threat of them all? I kind of doubt it because it doesn’t play into the “conspiracy” that Metzen alluded to.

Tbh I love her character and sass I don’t know if want to kill her. Yeah Dalaran was messed up for sure but you know shit happens.

[deep pawn]

she absolutely is

her goal is to become a void lord

The only person I maybe could buy becoming a void lord and leaving us alone is Azshara

[dense plover]

how do i start the new seasonal delve storyline?

[deep pawn]

can't yet

[dense plover]

ah ok

[upper pasture]

Soon™️

[dense plover]

are new delve stories also not available until season start?

i dont really want to do delves if my progress this week wont really matter

oh i see - you shouldnt do them this week

they dont have curios

[upper pasture]

You can still do the new stories and the new delves just the story start and the mount isn’t available, you can earn undercoins and brann exp and get curios

I have all 10(?) curios

[dense plover]

ill just wait a week

[upper pasture]

You’d atleast want to do some to fill up your vault or at least unlock T11 so next week you have a decent vault and/or have t11 unlocked from the get go

But then again you don’t have to

[dense plover]

i can do that next week and get s3 gear drops

unless it already drops s3 gear?

[upper pasture]

You’ll get S3 drops this week

[dense plover]

idk if i can push to t11 with ilvl 670 tho i am a tank

[upper pasture]

Highest vault credit is 8

[deep pawn]

you can absolutely do up to 11s as a tank, but no reason to go beyond 8s really except for a pittance of Brann exp

but yeah, I'd at least do two +8s to get a hero track vault next week

[dense plover]

so gilded crests start next week?

[deep pawn]

yeah

runed too

[dense plover]

artifact delve is silly

[deep pawn]

yeah

[dense plover]

goddammit

the drop

[glass fulcrum]

lol

[dense plover]

GODDAMMIT

ITS ALL MEMES

[upper pasture]

Yeah today delve story for the new one has a lot of funny stuff in it

[dense plover]

how the hell did they avoid a loadscreen for this one?

did they copy the zone and then place it somewhere in karresh?

are there new stories for old delves?

[deep pawn]

oh, interesting bug lol

alas, no extra key haha

so this week looks like you can get 5-6 keys?

[dense plover]

no ecodome stuff yet right?

[deep pawn]

nope

[dense plover]

whats this - in kriegvals rest?

[deep pawn]

skip

today it's fight 3 end bosses to 50%

it's generally faster

[dense plover]

i cant even interact with it

[deep pawn]

you have to have the 707 ilvl cloak then

[dense plover]

what about this?

ive only gotten 1/3 extra threads

idk what to do to get threads

ah - it summons a clone of the ?? boss

[upper pasture]

Doing delves will get you your missing threads

[dense plover]

oh ok

can i run the same delve over and over since there are no bountifuls?

[deep pawn]

yeah

[dense plover]

i like the troops having a vertical structure

[deep pawn]

I might take a bunch of alts through kriegvals haha

[dense plover]

yeah its empty

well dont do fungal folly

the current story is broken

the fishing thing glitched out

gonna try to relog

the amount of bugs this patch is gross

relogging fixed it

[dense plover]

i did 8 delves - 0 threads

i think

doesnt seem to be a way to check

oh i did get strands and couldnt tell

[deep pawn]

it its looted at the end, it's easy to miss

Well that is pretty

[dense plover]

damn

wonder how we access the ecodome for the quests

since its not on the zone map

[deep pawn]

We'll probably teleport there

there's a phase conduit right at the final boss area

funnily enough, the light is just covering the current skybox

[dense plover]

lol

[deep pawn]

It disappears when you phase dive and you see the current void core

There's two unbound spirits who you can talk to there.

It doesn't make sense for land to suddenly reshow to the west in like an Amirdrassil situation

It is also the site of their former high temple.

Honestly I'll be quite happy if they get to restore a piece of their world that even if it's just a few chunks in the sky that it can be their home.

Better than them coming to Azeroth. 😛

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/how-dare-you-screaming-lady-rage-angry-gif-15730816

thats how we get playable ethereals

also whats up with the patch trailer spoiling so much 💀

[deep pawn]

probably just didn't have a ton of cutscenes they could use

[ember blaze]

Radiant bard confirmed 👀

"crystal" too 👀

[deep pawn]

I feel like there's enough hints

And Arcane is a traditionally ordery power

which if it's Titan Artificer

[little hound]

😂

[rain cave]

Do we know this

[austere gazelle]

there is no way to check how many strands you looted unless you see it when you loot them or you go to the upgrade NPC to see how many you have. Yeah, that sucks

[crude sigil]

Not a spoil if you don't have context no story about it, just beautiful images with non-sense
https://i.imgur.com/eTxavFD.png

[tropic trail]

Maybe we can get more K’aresh renewel story during 11.2.5.
As for ecodome Aldani location - i speculate it being on the other side of K’Aresh.

And since Dimensius is “no more” (reference needed) could it be that void portal in the centrer of the world is gone and replaced by K’Aresh world soul?

[little hound]

The world soul of K'aresh has been dead for centuries, maybe even longer. It is a dead planet, the only life there are what the Eco-Domes are making.

Soul Scribe only "Heard" the voice of K'aresh, because of Xal'atath tricking her into believing she heard anything.

[tropic trail]

Do we know for sure that it is dead or that xal tricks ex-scribe?

[little hound]

Yes.

Its in Xal's dialogue if you finished the quest, she just wanted to convince Soul Scribe so that her Wastelanders will work with us.

[tropic trail]

That also would explain her motivation to go bananas in ecodome dungeon.

Are some of these Ravel guys still alive?

[little hound]

Yeah, the Eco-dome dungeon takes place AFTER The raid. We'll get a cutscene next week where Salhadaar returns to the Wastelanders, which pisses them off, because we've been telling them: "Fuck Salhadaar, he's dead, fuck your oaths to him. Work for us now." and he just shows up alive

[little hound]

The only members of the Ravel we're aware of that still are alive, is Locus Walker (Not for long), and Ve'nari.

[tropic trail]

These traitors lol

[little hound]

Considering that the Ravel was a K'areshi faction, i'm assuming that most are either dead with K'aresh or scattered across other places of the universe to hide.

[tropic trail]

But that quest is funny where Xal’atath imbued her power into the other guy for him to hear song of K’aresh. I’m sure K’aresh is long gone and she is just manipulating them to get her necklace 100% charged

[little hound]

Xal'atath is doing whatever she can to trick Soul Scribe, she is after all the leader of the Wastelanders, and her Reshii Ribbon is needed for us to enter the raid.

[tropic trail]

Yea

[little hound]

There are 4 Ribbons.

Locus Walker's. Ve'nari's. Soul Scribe's and the last i think the Shadowguard has, that we'll grab next week along with Soul Scribe's.

[tropic trail]

Oh wow

[little hound]

And the mass in the middle, its not a world soul anymore. Its just a black hole, surging with void.

Xal's trick sure worked though.

[tropic trail]

Of course, what we are doing now is basically helping her to summon dimensius. For some reason she has not enough power to do it herself 🤨

[little hound]

Oh, no. She's got nothing to do with summoning Dimensius. The guy who stole the Dark heart already did that in the intro cinematic.

[tropic trail]

Ah yeah, I forgot about him already. lol 😂

So she just basically wants her necklace back that’s all

[little hound]

Trinket/Artifact, but yes. She's been using it to store massive amounts of energy. By the end of the raid, she'll have Dimensius trapped in there by the sounds of it, and she will consume the all-consuming, most likely becoming equal to a void lord herself.

[austere gazelle]

yeah Locus Walker which is a nickname that everyone call him by like he never had a real name to begin with

[little hound]

It happens, i guess. He used to have a Wife.

[austere gazelle]

I'm wondering if she will effectively becomes a void lord, or if she will use the power of the void lord . Like, removing the dark heart from her depower her

[little hound]

Considering her physical body is a dead elf's corpse she's borrowing? I don't think her body can handle it

[austere gazelle]

We don't even know what she is to begin with anyway. She was " mortal " apparently but whatever now

[little hound]

Sadly not, all we know is that she is a being of the void. Her former status or rank in the Void Hierarchy is unknown. She seemed to be pretty big though, to go against the Old Gods

[austere gazelle]

well if she was Dimensius"s forme " Silver surfer " maybe she had a form of Authority.
We could even said that she betrayed dimensius but many where not aware and the old gods just assumed Dimensius was vainquished on Karesh and she was a survivor, still working for the void and not against the void lords

[little hound]

[hearty ridge]

wait so khadgar is just going to sit this whole thing out?!

[austere gazelle]

but the lore is lacking on many point.
Xal can still be developed, but Ve"nari and Locus Walker, I fear they will fall into the empty pit of plot hole

[austere gazelle]

not like he can walk atm xD

[hearty ridge]

brother ur a wizard, levitate or something come on

[little hound]

Khadgar can just go Zenyatta xD

[crude sigil]

I don't know why he still alive ... x)

[hearty ridge]

wouldve been a cool moment to do some inclusive stuff, really make him in to proff X or something

oh well

[crude sigil]

he is useless and cringe since the end of Legion. When he got absorbed by dark heart, he is like some droplets of water in an ocean of energy (yeah, this type of energy is like that). You can't be restored.

[crude sigil]

yeah, maybe ...

[warm topaz]

is the World Boss not a nightmare after the nerfs?

[pulsar minnow]

Ky’veza and Salhaadar were members of the Ravel

[little hound]

Both about to die again.

[deep pawn]

We basically do. There's voice lines where Alleria and Ve'nari discuss her plan to become the all devouring once Dimensius is out of the way

Plus the oh so subtle "I'd go to Azeroth next if I was a void lord."

[rain cave]

I don't want to to loser her mommy form though

[little hound]

Considering her current body is just a dead mortal's shell? I expect she might get a proper Void-Twisted form eventually. No way she'll be able to maintain the power of a Void Lord in that.

[warm topaz]

do you think Xal only seek power?

we still don't know her goals and motivations

she wants the world soul but why

i'm really curious about how we're going to know that and who's gonna tell us

[little hound]

That's fair, we don't really know her own goal yet.

[deep pawn]

She wants to survive and why not be the biggest bad out there

[crude sigil]

every cosmic thing want Azeroth soul because it's give lot's of power ^^

[warm topaz]

yeah but I imagine there's more than: "I want power"

I hope so at least

Sargeras wanted to destroy Azeorth cos he didn't want the void to corrupt the world soul

that's why he wanted power

[little hound]

I suspect Xal'atath wants Azeroth because she knows the same as the Titans: That Azeroth's Worldsoul is the Prime Worldsoul.

[austere gazelle]

If the world soul as a way to manipulate the dreams and the will of people next to them to assert " freedom" imagine if someone control that power

it may basically alienate anyone to its side

and in the end, control the whole cosmos ( like zovaal domination )

It may have been what made the First Ones work together to build the framework, they ended up on the prime world soul and became " cooperative " and in harmony and started to work together ( or, as Firim said " They were brought /came together " )

And to go deeper into that theory, Azeroth world soul sucked all the " spirit element " which was the element that made the elements working in harmony before. When this element vanished, they warred each other.

[lavish raptor]

i think he might have been involved with the original 11.2 story before it was reworked into the current saga

[crude sigil]

?

[lavish raptor]

TWW was reworked partway thru development

[crude sigil]

sources ?

[lavish raptor]

the original datamined map included a zone we don't visit

and if you fly towards specific points in AK you get drowsy and teleported away

"Development of the saga was spearheaded by Chris Metzen.[4] After returning to Blizzard, he spearheaded ideas for The War Within that would be impractical to implement within the context of a single expansion, hence the expansion of said ideas into a trilogy.[5] By September 2024, the overall story of the trilogy was set, though the writers are allowed to pivot if necessary.[6] "

the expac was announced late 2023 and they started development well before then

[crude sigil]

yeah, rootlands

Haranir guys

but we might see them in the future during Midnight (to avoid an expansion full of void and purple)

[lavish raptor]

yeah probably

but i think maybe what other story khad had might have been written out for now

[crude sigil]

maybe connected to Amani zone revamp with big trees, ...

[deep pawn]

Some people speculate that a lot of the K'aresh plants were originally designed for the Rootlands

[zealous sedge]

This is good but only on the first attempt is bad. https://www.wowhead.com/news/you-only-get-one-shot-per-week-new-source-of-guaranteed-myth-track-gear-in-patch-378067?utm_source=discord-webhook

[tropic trail]

I think is is fair tbh. Within seasonal framework we have access to HC gear via delves and reasonable maze keys give Myth-tier vault gear.

Here Blizz treats myth-tier award as a nice bonus.

[zealous sedge]

Eh I guess you’re right

I guess the thing is never do hard mode in pugs

And also the groups for this are gonna be extremely comp dependent. No squishy classes at all

[deep pawn]

I mean 707 ilvl will be easily met down the road

[dense plover]

this is for high end people to push ASAP but for everyone else to not bother with

it will probably have its once/week limit dropped in 11.2.5

[deep pawn]

That's what, max hero? Plus you can be certain Turbo boost will be back

[dense plover]

also i completed the illidari side quest on karesh - i am onboard the void DH spec train. Though I do think that it wont come before prepatch for next expac which will be when remix ends

[upper pasture]

I think the best thing about this void DH guy is we literally created a raid boss and people are just glazing over it . I love that we just help him empower himself and when things go wrong we just shoved him through a void portal and think “eh, I’m sure he’s fine”

[lavish raptor]

"hope he doesn't take it personally"

(he took it personally)

[dense plover]

i mean - he is partially to blame

he sought power without wisdom

he was told to not fight it and refused

thinking he was better than the one teaching him

[lavish raptor]

yeah definitely a FAFO moment

[upper pasture]

Typical blood elf behavior

[deep pawn]

I think 11.2.7 in December. I think the lesson they'll have taken from Aug is that 8 weeks is too soon

[dense plover]

i think they wont do it until remix is over

[ember blaze]

i disagree. the dh expansion wont get the void spec to level and try it out in? 🤔

[dense plover]

no b/c it needs to be balanced and remix is a bad environment for it

we will see when 11.2.5 hits ptr

[ember blaze]

it wont be balanced

specially if they explore new gameplay

releasing it strong is also a good way to get more people to play it

[deep pawn]

Remix will be 11.2.7 in late November, Early December. Prepatch will be late January

Remix won't end until the expansion launches in February

11.2.5 in September will have anniversary, maybe the Darkshire event

[ember blaze]

completely forgot about that

[deep pawn]

My big test is if 11.2.5 has any story

if it doesn't, I'm gonna be angry

[dense plover]

didnt remix end with prepatch?

i guess not wow

idk why i misremember that

[clear apex]

They coincided and gave you higher ilvl gear for missing prepatch gear

[lavish raptor]

nah it ended the day the expac came out (early)

i specifically remember fucking around the three days between the early-access launch and the real launch with my remix toon

[clear apex]

Cause a lot of people were logging into their remix alts

Guess my issue is what class would i even use this time, or guess i wouldn't keep them after its over

[lavish raptor]

im gonna make a bunch of lv10 evokers lol

tho i guess if its legion then class halls might be a thing

[clear apex]

I leveled a paladin, mage, dk and warlock

Wonder if there'll be class hall mount recolor

[little hound]

Read the roadmap. 11.2.7 will have story. .5 wont

[clear apex]

Oh void and fel color would be cool

We're here, and .5 doesn't say story but .7 do

Still curious about housing being there for early winter. Hoping they'll say in a couple weeks

[little hound]

We’ll probably get it sooner due to pre-order givin early access

[clear apex]

... has it really been nearly a year since the 20th anni stuff outside caverns of time or did i blank on it

it has been wtf

[little hound]

So many fake leakers at this time of the year haha. Sad how hard they try

[clear apex]

I've seen like zero leaks but maybe I've not been paying attention

Less to see since we know the title and theme

[ember blaze]

since when do .5s not include story 🤔

[clear apex]

Looks like all year it's been the .7 that have story and .5 are content/ system

Maybe they started that in df?

[deep pawn]

I know it likely won't, but I think it's stupid as hell that all 3 x.x.5's patches had 0 plot

That has ground the pacing of this expansion to an outright HALT

[zealous sedge]

I mean can we just get a little bit of stay a while and listen in the .5 at the very least? That would keep me happy.

Totally agree the pacing feels so off with the lack of story in the .5 patches

[sleek solar]

I think .5 will be a system patch with small bit of story, instead of story focussed.

[zealous sedge]

That’s fine it doesn’t need to be story focused but atleast give us something that moves the story along or gives us tid bits.

[sleek solar]

Yeah didn't DF give a small prologue for the next patch?

[warm topaz]

maybe some new Lorewalking questlines?

[zealous sedge]

Is it weird for wanting a questline that sets up neighborhoods and housing before it launches

Like kind of a phased experience with new quests each week to assist in “building” the neighborhood

[zealous sedge]

Yeah there was a small questline with Alleria and Locus Walker

[clear apex]

I think there will be one

Building the neighborhood would be fun as well

[rain cave]

it's either gonna be crazy leak season as we approach gamescom or it'll be watertight

since usually expansion reveals happen at blizzcon which means that it's blizzard adjacent staff that leak it

but this time there's more third parties involved

if they're doing rehearsals with promo material some event guy might leak it

[zealous sedge]

I’m so excited for the gamescom reveal Tuesday Wednesday are my days off

[rain cave]

but at the same time they could also just be keeping all the actual hard materials and trailer for the actual event

and just use filler/pauses for the rehearsals

[zealous sedge]

Has there ever been a big leak that turned out to be true?

Out of curiosity

[rain cave]

evokers got leaked

but nobody thought it was actually true which is funny

[zealous sedge]

Oh haha I wasn’t around then

That’s funny no one thought it was true

[rain cave]

everyone got saw leaked screenshots of skinny dragon peeps and went "nah no way that's real lol"

[ember blaze]

iirc a few people managed to get the data of evokers for like the small amount of time it got pushed through the ptr

[zealous sedge]

I feel like Blizz has always been super tight with their projects

[ember blaze]

although they never posted it

[rain cave]

I think shadowlands got leaked but in a way less believable way and it was a much earlier concept I think

[ember blaze]

but yeah there was the blurry lizard pics too

[rain cave]

I know the algari stormrider set from preorder was sort of leaked, or datamined

just the name of it

but yeah blizz haven't really had any major leaks ever

[upper pasture]

Didn’t WoD get leaked too?

[zealous sedge]

I wouldn’t expect it to start now but reading the funny fan “leaks” on mmo champ is always a good time

[ember blaze]

if u do make sure u share it and not be like kyle mentioning the leaks without posting what it is

[upper pasture]

Like big time, we got a lot of info of WoD and people were generally excited by it, shame it turned out so sour lol

[rain cave]

if we get anything, it'll be within the couple days before

[ember blaze]

i wonder if we see cinematic leaks

[zealous sedge]

Yeah like you said it would be some event dude leaking material that was sent

[rain cave]

they're probably in peak explicit info lockdown mode right now. Finalizing all the stuff for the reveal

[zealous sedge]

Which is kinda rude ngl

[rain cave]

if we get a leak, it won't be from blizzard

[zealous sedge]

A lot of work goes into that stuff

[rain cave]

dragonflights key art leaked from a random printing room lmao

[lavish raptor]

heres a midnight leak: theres elves involved

[rain cave]

https://tenor.com/view/so-i've-heard-gif-1899418861963210299

[zealous sedge]

I just remember Blizzcon when they announced MoP I was like how do they keep all the signage and stuff hidden in the space.

Before they announce

[rain cave]

I do wonder if they'll use midnight as an expansion to add high/half elves as an explicit race

and have like REALLY in depth customisation for it to justify it

but my only worry there is that the other elves then get shafted lmao

[lavish raptor]

i think them adding elf ears to humans and blue eyes to belfs was how they handled it

[zealous sedge]

I want my undead to have more skeletal options as well

[rain cave]

mhm

I think maybe they should just give all elf races more standardized customisations

[lavish raptor]

they give human ears to elfs. it just looks like a human with massive eyebrows

[zealous sedge]

I fully expect we’ll get Arathi allied race before anything else and people are gonna be so mad

It just feels like something blizzard would do lol

[rain cave]

high elf tattoos and feathers, shared hairstyles, more jewellery. Combine some new ones for both nightborne and night elves

[zealous sedge]

We definitely need more tattoos in the game

[rain cave]

In feel like piercings are one that should be universal as well

[zealous sedge]

Maybe a tattoo parlor in midnight for all races?

Next to the barber shop

[lavish raptor]

yeah rn the only way to get tats is

1. racial barber shop feature
2. a couple shirts

[rain cave]

also they don't all have to be serious tattoos blizz

let my macho orc have a tramp stamp

[zealous sedge]

Haha

Im no developer but I feel like that have to redo all the models in order for that tattoo customization to work

Unless it’s a genuine technical limitation entirely

[rain cave]

they do use some filler NPC's to show this but I do like to see different races not just being traditional

e.g. seeing how a bunch of different races who've lived together for a while turn into a mean/median culture

[rain cave]

it's more of a UV thing

BUT

we've seen with the dracthyr that it can work

and models can have multiple UV maps

so if they were going to add it, it would probably be on a standardized UV layout for all the races. Atleast that's how I'd tackle it

[zealous sedge]

The best case scenario would be the freedom to put tattoos basically anywhere you want (to a certain extent) but that sounds like a ton of work.

[rain cave]

tbf that's arguably easier to do

but it's more expensive performance wise

[clear apex]

Really wish they'd expand customization on all races since they did so much with dracthyr.
Some are severely lacking.
Open up dracthyr race visage. Add undead options to all races.

Shared hairstyles, etc etc

Gnomes, undead, dwarves kinda suck

[zealous sedge]

I think at the end of the day I’m cool with no new races just expand on existing ones. I think they put themselves in a pickle with all those allied races over the years.

[rain cave]

performance scaling is something that needs to be considered for it because the tattoos could be a new material, that means another draw call for that model. So if everyone has tattoos that means your PC is rendering every player character another time basically

[clear apex]

Yeah if they just added a ton of customization I'd be very happy

[rain cave]

so they'd need to find a way of having it work in the base material for the races or some other thing

[zealous sedge]

Oh that’s a really good point never thought about that. Maybe they can put a graphics option where you can omit other people’s tattoos or make them less visible.

[clear apex]

I like what they did with maghar really. Just different skin but same skin color

[rain cave]

it makes sense for tattoos not to be shown under armour. And ofc there are LOD's and other player options so yeah

[clear apex]

That and they'd be covered/ gone if it's under armor

[zealous sedge]

Yeah the armor alone could really help solve that problem

[rain cave]

something I think would be a smart implementation but would be harder to do for WoW's artstyle is have all the tattoos basically be alphas all on one shared texture, and then all the tattoos use the 'same' colour material

so instead of each player having a different material you could potentially have them all gpu instanced, and they get coloured in smartly

but the thing with WoW is that the artstyle being handpainted is the charm

[zealous sedge]

I wonder if they can pull any systems from housing like the dye system and apply it character customization

[clear apex]

they need to also update the zanda skin cause the their shoulder texture isn't hd

[rain cave]

whilst not the same, it is funny that every dracthyr head shape uses the same texture. So you can see the texture warping up close

[rain cave]

I just realized something

races already HAVE a UV map that is standardized

it's the armour pieces

tattoos could just hook in to the existing workflow they use for armour

[zealous sedge]

Oh nice

So tattoos confirmed in midnight

Haha

[rain cave]

and by doing that it would also solve the material issue I think, since it would just exist in the space armour would until it's covered

and if you're worried about more revealing armour covering parts, things like bracers and belts already layer over existing armour parts

so as long as tattoos are just added to a new armour layer on the bottom it should just work?

there'd need to be considerable work put into it and making sure it fits well to each race without stretching much. But it would be a scaleable system.

[zealous sedge]

So you’re saying there’s a chance

[rain cave]

there's always a chance it's just a matter of if that's what they want to do

keep in mind there are other races that could be added that take away from the budget for those kinds of features though

like harranir and naga

naga would be much more costly since you know, harranir are already made

and I imagine they'd have 2 forms

[ember blaze]

what exactly do you add that other elves shouldnt get

high elves are literally just blue eyes arent they

lets not clutter the screen with blood elf #3

[rain cave]

they have different culture, and there's half elves

but yeah if they added a high elf race that had so much customisation to justify it, that would just feel like removing things from other races

honestly I think they should re-do how races as a whole are done

but probably after TLT when we sort of get reset back to the beginning of the whole arc going on

and they probs focus on more world level stuff likle vanilla again

but yeah imagine you just pick orc, and then there's subraces to the orcs for maghar and green, they get to share most customisation options like tattoos and hair styles

or you pick a high elf and can choose void elf, blood elf or just a plain high elf, again with things shared between them

same with kultiran and human, trolls, etc

like it would just end up being more of a UI thing with customisation parity for races baked in. But I feel it would help people understand where each race lies and also stops the race menu from bloating if they want to add more

so if they wanted to add things like mok'nathal, and they're under the orc section people can look at them and go "oh I see they're part orc", and not getting mad that they look similar to orcs and aren't a "full race"

[autumn dagger]

was the cinematic trailer tomorrow or on the 19th?

[upper pasture]

the 19th, at gamescon opening night

[deep pawn]

Give Void Elves the option to turn their racial blue if that's the hold up

[ember blaze]

lol i completely glossed over that she has been using DH weapon

[upper pasture]

Yeah she picks it up during the empowering or maybe after it. Cause the dude gets kicked through the portal without his weapons

[deep pawn]

New spec, void and Nightborne elf class expansion, just feels like it fits Remix.

Both races were introduced in Legion after all

[glass flicker]

What if it wasn't only Void, but also Arcane, though? :o

Remember, we're on K'aresh, and Ethereals aren't only made of Void.

Then it'd fit both Nightborne and Void Elves.

[deep pawn]

Except the boss is void

[tropic trail]

Wearing plate armour … Warglaves for warriors confirmed!

[rain cave]

honestly it would be nice to see glaives expanded to atleast be useable by warriors

but ig they're agi weapons so they'd have to add str to them which is awkward

but a fury warrior would probably have a lot of fun with some glaives

though the image of a 2 handed glaive is funny to me

[deep pawn]

lots of agi/str weapons exist

[rain cave]

I know but glaives are just agi rn

[clear apex]

So... survival hunters

[rain cave]

and it would just feel funny to add strength to them just for warriors lmao

honestly I feel vengeance should be strength

but I understand why they aren't

[quaint hatch]

i neeeeed me some Demon Hunters with Staffs or Polearms

[rain cave]

scythe demon hunter is just begging to exist

[lone mantle]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=246584/a-steamy-romance-novel-devouring-love

[quaint hatch]

like there was one in legion or am i not remembering right???

[rain cave]

yes, they even gave her a bunch of quests and appearances in earlier legion stuff

it's fairly obvious it's the leftovers from a potential 3rd spec xD

[quaint hatch]

fucking hell

i hope, if the 3rd spec comes it gets polearms

[rain cave]

I doubt it if the void DH we're seeing is using glaives

[deep pawn]

He has scythe abilities

[little hound]

They've already said they haven't planned on introducing a 3rd spec, they just thought the chance/fantasy behind the encounter was fun.

[upper pasture]

Did they? Or did they say that “had nothing to announce”

[rain cave]

interesting then

[rain cave]

they've said a lot of things

[little hound]

Right, keep coping all you like

[rain cave]

especially things that later turned out to be lies or covering something else xD

[little hound]

[rain cave]

I don't care either way I think adding a 3rd spec would be awkward depending on how they're expanding hero talents in midnight

[little hound]

That'd be a random and unwanted roadblock 😄

[rain cave]

but I also think it's a cool idea, and they have an opportunity to do something fun

even if it comes specifically in midnight and is just a hero spec

[upper pasture]

I’m just saying there’s a difference between “we don’t plan on adding a 3rd spec” and “we have nothing to announce”

I’m pro adding anything to the game idc what it is. I love this game and I like seeing it expanded on. To think otherwise is just weird. As long as the dev think it’s a good idea to add more classes/races/hero talents/whatever let them do it. A stagnant game is a dead game

[little hound]

I'm all for adding stuff, ofc. I'm just not the type that takes EVERY Word as a "Oh, this is a hint! We're getting this! COPE COPE! No doubt!"

I either see thme announce it, or they don't. I'm not wasting expectations on something that has no real evidence of being added.

[ember blaze]

saying no evidence is crazy

[warm topaz]

what did Ion sad on the MrGM interview when asked about it?

i'm going to check

[little hound]

Not really. What evidence is there that this'll be for players? The icons/Models are all related to the boss fight.

[ember blaze]

again theres more than just the raid,

[warm topaz]

"def not 3rd spec on 10.1" "anything is possible on the future"

[ember blaze]

in one of them the dev said it sounded cool 👀

[little hound]

Damn, sounds cool to get takeaway after closing time, doesn't mean it'll happen..

People can have an opinion without it happening.

[upper pasture]

People can also have opinions without others screaming “cope” /shrug

[ember blaze]

go do the questline then get back to us 🛌

[little hound]

OH the salt over an opinion. Keep dreaming about it, it won't happen, but that doesn't bother me.

[ember blaze]

also, how quick did that wowhead article pop up after the raid released?

it was so quick it felt like blizzard told them to post it to start speculation

[little hound]

Dataminers got an erection from seeing a purple DH, so they started a hype train over something that most likely won't happen 😄

[deep pawn]

They're saying more than they did with regards to Aug lol.

I do think it's 11.2.7 so not immediately coming but it's soon

It's probably in place of a new class in Midnight

[upper pasture]

Blizzard wanting to do world building before adding a spec???? No way.

[ember blaze]

i hope not

[little hound]

11.2.7 is most likely going to be the Story leading into pre-patch, which is the same patch too. So i doubt it.

[ember blaze]

one single spec in place of the usual class is crazy

[upper pasture]

Yes but also it’s a spec to a class that’s always been “one behind” every other class

[ember blaze]

and?

[upper pasture]

Well…I guess besides Evoker for a little bit

¯_(ツ)_/¯

They have incentive to do it?

Reward long term DH players with a fancy new spec? Will it make everyone else “feel left out” if they main one single class and never play anything else? Sure but plenty of people will roll a DH alt or already have one.

[uncut vault]

Worth noting that the last time Blizzard was saying "thats a cool idea, but nothing to announce right now" was when people were speculating about a third evoker spec, notably predicated by Sarkareth having this unique ability :P

[deep pawn]

I keep saying the devs are basically winking at us.

It's a totally different tone than their responses about Ethereals.

[dense plover]

i was one of the "no new spec" people, but i am on board now

[ember blaze]

yeah i feel like its just way too obvious

[dense plover]

just not sure when we will get it

i hope it ends up also being a support spec though

[ember blaze]

people keep saying theyre just showing off a class as a boss to do new/cool stuff

but like they did that with evokers too

and it followed a new spec

[dense plover]

game needs more support specs if they want support to be viable

[deep pawn]

I think 11.2.7 with Legion remix because I know lots of people felt Aug came too early and was too disruptive

[dense plover]

otherwise it will just be constantly shit b/c theres no good way to balance it

[deep pawn]

Blizzard also doesn't do class mechanic changes in x.x.5's as much anymore

[dense plover]

i think they should consider making support a full-fledged spec type and changing dungeons to 1:1:1:2 or something

[deep pawn]

11.0.5 was the exception because they literally ran out of time in beta.

[dense plover]

augmentation in its original implementation was very fun

[ember blaze]

its og release was what you could argue was really a "support"

but that cant work when 1: theres no specific role for it. and 2: the game isnt balanced around it

ion did say it would take a lot of work to add a new role

but now theyve arrived at whats just a regular dps who just relies on allies for some of its damage

which works better in wow as just another dps that plays differently

[deep pawn]

The "likely" Titan class in 13.0 might be more controversial if it really is support/healer/tank

[ember blaze]

why would that be controversial

[deep pawn]

it'd be the first class in the game without a traditional dps spec since at least wrath

[ember blaze]

the players survived 20 years without a new ranged choice

they can survive one single class release without a traditional dps

[little hound]

You assume it'll be a class at all.

[deep pawn]

Just going off the survey and if Midnight doesn't have a class that'd be 2 expansion gap again

[pulsar minnow]

We’re probably gonna get another class in TLT

It’s the perfect opportunity to finally add Tinkers

I feel like next to housing tinkers are the second most requested thing by players

[rain cave]

I think we need to stop expecting classes as a routine thing at this point

we'll probably get a new one within either midnight or TLT, I reckon TLT

but I fully expect that to be like, the last one

[ember blaze]

huge cope

and a great way to kill the game

[rain cave]

no?

we're running out of a lot of design space for classes in a LOT of ways

hero talents organically feel like a new thing to replace new classes

since they don't need all the stuff that classes do

[ember blaze]

do you think a game like league would still be as big as it is today, if they said, " we have enough characters at 30, lets stop here"

[rain cave]

not comparable at all

[ember blaze]

and theyre reaching 200 at this point and their devs are not running out of ideas :)

[rain cave]

the difference is that each character in league is a single and simple defined kit, working within "rule of cool". Not to mention that they have other things that can set them apart becayse they are all individuals.

in WoW, a class has multiple specs with multiple build paths, and they have to be visually and thematically distinct enough to not be confusing or pollute the design space for other classes

it really isn't fair to compare league champs to WoW classes since they provide very different functions to each game

even if it still the lens of the player character

[ember blaze]

if my game had devs who ran out of ideas, id get new devs

[rain cave]

it's not even that

there's no shortage of ideas in game dev

but good ideas are rarer than gold

what @upper pasture theorizes about a bard or tinker class using azeroth/titan tech IS a really good bet, because we're getting thematic setup that would explain those things.
But WoW's world as it is doesn't really support any other new classes other than Tinker, and maybe a bard if they follow through on the azeroth stuff

sure they could add new ones, but either they wouldn't feel warcrafty enough, or they'd end up taking something from other classes in some way

[deep pawn]

ff14 knows they have to add 2 classes each expansion

[ember blaze]

considering we will end up on a never before seen other side of the world probably after TLT

thats a great place to start with non "wow" stuff

[deep pawn]

Dagran is gonna be the class trainer

He's sticking around for reasons

[rain cave]

Sure, there is that. But the only factions we know went there are paladins and titan constructs

and some dragons

[deep pawn]

Man I can't wait to meet Fae Dragons

[ember blaze]

dont we already have those

[deep pawn]

Wishes and destruction equally?

[rain cave]

I just worry about new classes being potentially too thematically thin

[upper pasture]

I will say “technomancy” from the brokers could also serve as a 3rd branch of tinkerer too

[deep pawn]

Not faerie dragons, but full on Fae Court dragons, yes we had Ardenweald

but they can be summer court fae

[ember blaze]

also, someone wasnt kidding this pet has a player passive

so it legit has no first ability

[rain cave]

I do think there could be a shadowlands style necromancer but the thing is. We've HAD that expansion

[ember blaze]

cant wait for AI to replace the remaining 2 qa people

[ember blaze]

can you remind me what these look like

also, a lot of ardenweald stuff referenced avalon right

[rain cave]

if this is a nonjoking statement I'll be annoyed

[ember blaze]

or avaloren or whatever

would that zone be a good hint at what we will see over there 🤔

[rain cave]

we don't know since they've not been shown in game

[deep pawn]

all we know is the green dragon that flew west was changed

[ember blaze]

so where are they referenced

[rain cave]

dragonflight books

[deep pawn]

And then Faerin being all "Mythical beings that grant wishes?"

which doesn't fit our Dragons well

[ember blaze]

googling i just get the faerie dragons

[deep pawn]

I'm only speculating they're fae folk dragons of some sort

[rain cave]

I mean maybe they're azerothian dragons

wishes being them doing some kind of reality magic like azeroth can

[deep pawn]

Haranir have some Fae level rules about just watching

[rain cave]

if she was changed, maybe she was gilded like the thraegar are

we know azeroth can reach into the dream, hell maybe it's even tied to her like the shadowlands was

it's been a long standing theory the emerald dream is her dream

so maybe the dragon that flew deep into it ended up being noticed by her and blessed, ended up on Avaloren with new powers that are able to grant wishes by doing miniature reality warps

the ability to make dreams reality

thinking about all this it does make me think we are going to her more hero specs in one way or another, even if it's further down the line

because they are distinctly setting up new fantasies for already existing classes

[ember blaze]

speaking of making dreams into reality

who clowned me about the mount description

that talked about some dalaran mage dreaming their painting into reality

painter class confirmed

[ember blaze]

isnt this what the dream already is

[rain cave]

ehh not really. The dream is just a realm, things can manifest from the dream sure. But we aren't even sure where the dream comes from or what it is

and usually it's of note when things from the dream leak out into reality

but that's specifically emerald dream aesthetic, but Kyle was talking about the Arathi saying dragons can grant wishes. What is granting a wish? making a dream into reality.

[ember blaze]

going through mounts, there sure are a lot of dreams becoming reality descriptions

[rain cave]

so my point is that green dragon flies out into the emerald dream, green dragons have ties to the dream. If the dream is tied to Azeroth (which has some decent evidence) then that means that potentially Azeroth was the one who put that dragon on Avaloren, maybe even blessed her

and Azeroth is commonly referred to by the community as the centre of reality or whatever

like she has powers that relate to reality

[ember blaze]

i dont think the dragon was dreaming 🤔

[rain cave]

I never said this

[ember blaze]

u said it went to the emerald dream

[rain cave]

yeah

[sleek solar]

Playable ogres and naga

[rain cave]

new race class combo Naga Ogre hybrids who are tinkers specializing in housing

[sleek solar]

HAHAHAHA

I wonder what that would look like XD

[deep pawn]

The Tragedy of Erinethria

https://www.wowhead.com/news/emerald-dream-lore-books-in-10-2-eonar-and-elune-the-very-first-world-tree-and-335352?page=5

okay, so the book only says other dragons have seen her in their dreams

[little hound]

Really not comparable. Not even the same game genre..

League and ANY Other MOBA Game (LoL, Dota, HoTs) Are DESIGNED To have a shitload of character variety, unique character classes, abilities etc. And yet those chars only have 4-5 abilities each, nor is it anywhere near as complex compared to massive MMORPG Game with 20 years of development behind it.

[ember blaze]

and a fantasy rpg with an ever expanding world is not designed to have a lot of unique characters added to it?

yall create the dumbest walls for this game for why it cant possibly create things

not to mention league has been around for 15 years

but sure, wow is unique in its nature where creativity is limited 🙄

[little hound]

I would defend it but in the last weeks i’ve learned that defending anything just makes arguing and whining even worse, unless the person is proven right. So please keep moaning, not like i can make you see reason between a MMO and Moba.

[ember blaze]

there is nothing to argue. Coping at wow not adding future classes is the dumbest thing imaginable

i know yall got no creativity, but the devs designing the game do

[little hound]

I doubt they’ll add tinker like people keep coping about, but that wont happen.

[little hound]

Creativity? Yes. I just prefer to be realistic.

[zealous sedge]

Artificer I’ve been convinced by this channel

[little hound]

Blizzard tends to be unpredictable, so we’ll just wait and see. I cba to sit and theorycraft, it just leads to discussions where people get salty and moan. What happens, happens.

[zealous sedge]

Also if we don’t get class halls back in the saga I’m gonna be so mad. Remix doesn’t count.

[little hound]

Doubt. Mage and Rogue hall wqs busted when Dalaran got blown up haha.

Order Hall. Covenants. Its been used up

[zealous sedge]

They can relocate.

I refuse to accept

[clear apex]

Ew. No more stuff like that

[lavish raptor]

Racial halls

[ember blaze]

https://x.com/Portergauge/status/1953925135398056039

Portergauge 🏳️‍🌈 (@Portergauge)

That's all the story for it for now, quick and fun dungeon with a nice visual setting.

Has me excited for the epilogue chapter next week being a *real* chapter and not just a couple quick wrap-up quests like 11.1's was.

X · Aug 8, 2025, 9:03 PM

thats kinda weird. like how red shirt guy points out, why does she speak like we killed her

[deep pawn]

More like she could have been the hero

[ember blaze]

maybe

i just dont see it like that

but either way, having the ending of the story take place on a dungeon you can clear before you see the whole thing.... is dumb

use a delve or something instead 💀

[deep pawn]

who knows

We still don't know if K'aresh is saved or not

[ember blaze]

i feel like a delve is something they can actually introduce later without messing up a season

oh the final chapter? here's a delve you unlock and get to do to conclude the story

i think its a good alternative to a dungeon

[ember blaze]

about that 💀

u know the datamining of the raid ending right 🤔

[deep pawn]

yes

The question is if Xal manages to eat the world soul or not

We know she tries but maybe she doesn't get to finish

[ember blaze]

hmm good point

would it matter for karesh tho at this point

i assume the big swirl on the sky is the world soul

[deep pawn]

I think so

[ember blaze]

like they thought it was dead

and it's already broken apart

[deep pawn]

depends on if Xal really let Soulscribe hear him

[ember blaze]

cant really trust this at all now can u

since they can easily make u hear voices

then u got the visions where the shamans couldnt tell the elements vs the void apart

also

https://x.com/TheRedShirtGuy/status/1954024819005198771

Ian Bates 💙 (@TheRedShirtGuy)

@Portergauge They said in one interview that the dungeon is incomplete at launch, and there’s some sort of extra content that only appears if your character has completed the raid.

X · Aug 9, 2025, 3:39 AM

? i have not heard anything about this

anyone got a source?

[deep pawn]

It's likely the extra land/phase diving stuff

[pulsar minnow]

It’s been making the rounds. I don’t remember where it’s from but yeah, there’s an ending after the dungeon that we just don’t see yet til after the raid

[deep pawn]

I'm sure we'll get a quest

Like there hasn't been a quest sending us to the dungeon yet right?

[upper pasture]

you know what's weird

[ember blaze]

also just noticed this random area at the top u cant port to

[upper pasture]

why have two slots for what could have been just one?

[ember blaze]

hmm

soulhunters dropping augment runes. augment

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-suspect-gif-22611582

void themed too

a lil sus if u ask me

@deep pawn support dh spec confirmed

[pulsar minnow]

Really curious how this spec would even work. Also would be funny if it was in fact a support and transformed your allies much to Xal’Ataths dismay

[deep pawn]

oh theres two phase conduits?

[ember blaze]

oh u can just fly there

im dumb

cant port there tho for some reason

[pulsar minnow]

Oh that’s the PvP area right

[ember blaze]

ya

i guess thats why

[deep pawn]

there's a phase conduit in Aldani

I presume after the raid you'll use that to talk to the two ghosts and fly across

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah just brings up those ghosts

[ember blaze]

let me eyebeam my allies 💀

[pulsar minnow]

Let me turn my allies to the void

[ember blaze]

what ghosts r yall talking about

[pulsar minnow]

So at the end of the dungeon there’s a conduit in the broken tower

Interact with it and you phase dive inside the dungeon

Where you’ll find untethered ethereals (ghosts) with talking bubbles over their head. Interact and they have some throwaway lines. Maybe some stuff will be added later

[deep pawn]

I mean there's obviously a quest we haven't seen yet

encrypted well honestly

Still want catbois and girls

[pulsar minnow]

My headcanon that has basically zero backing is that the ethereals resembled Githyanki from DnD

It just feels right

[deep pawn]

Wizards is a lot more litigious than others

[pulsar minnow]

I wasn’t saying a direct copy lol

More so that they’re this long and lanky alien looking race with in almost scale like pattern in some areas

[deep pawn]

that wouldn't sell races changes

people already call Earthen wasted

[clear apex]

Cat folk.

Neverending khajiit memes

[ember blaze]

I liked the idea someone said where they thought they would be cyclops people

but the audio stuff ruled that out

[ember blaze]

but it is a lil odd seeing their masks

[deep pawn]

not like they have any eyes at all anymore

weirdest detail of the Broker suits is they can choose the touch sensititivity

[pulsar minnow]

If they look cool enough it will?

And besides if they wanted to sell race changes they’d just make ethereals lol

[deep pawn]

I just don't see a frog race doing well after everyone hated skinny draconic types

[pulsar minnow]

I’m talking about lore

If they’re gonna make playable K’areshii I think they’d just make ethereals

[deep pawn]

Unless they just really don't like the idea of faceless characters as playable. 😛

[upper pasture]

the brokers do have alot of cat brokers so maybe cat like race?

[pulsar minnow]

You can still do face options via the bandages

Imprints of face, where the wrappings actually cover, etc..

Maybe a choice of a face mask like the brokers

For hair you can do magic seeping out or bandages forming a sort of hair shape

[ember blaze]

the what now

[pulsar minnow]

Like there’s plenty of options here

[deep pawn]

But it's still not eyes and stuff, I think if they felt inspired artwise to add them they'd have done that by now

[upper pasture]

you know all the little cat models added in tazavesh and what not

[deep pawn]

purrkins

[ember blaze]

the tiny cats? how would those become a cat race 🤔

[upper pasture]

it could be the ethereals real form or atleast cat-like, since they have an affinity for having these little guys around

[ember blaze]

how do pet cats = their true form 🤔

[pulsar minnow]

Only problem with the cat people theory is that ethereal wrappings essentially cover where their bodies would’ve actually been.

And as we see… they are basically just lanky humans. No snout or anything like a cat or animal race

[ember blaze]

i am so lost

can i get a picture of what yall r talking about

[lavish raptor]

cat girl

[pulsar minnow]

There’s no evidence in game it’s just fun speculation

[ember blaze]

i want a picture of whatever cat yall are referencing

[pulsar minnow]

Oh the broker cat

Yeah this guy

[ember blaze]

ok so it is the pet cat 💀

[deep pawn]

Desert cat people! 😄

[ember blaze]

these samurai looking ethereals are cool

[sleek solar]

The real question is

Do they have straight or curved legs?

[rain cave]

Tbf have you seen the running blades that amputees use? Quite similar to the brokers chasis

[sleek solar]

How would pure arcane energy amputate their legs xD

I think they either they were 1 of those, or there were 2 different species on that planet, with 1 having legs like Turians/ Quarians from Mass effect, and the other human like legs

[tulip sun]

I don't even think it is that complicated. It is just the mesh they use to contain their essence

It can be literally any shape

[sleek solar]

I dont think so tbh

I mostly think they werent designed to be ethereals at first and this is a remnant of that

[upper pasture]

huh, they seemed to hot-"fix" contracts giving the 15 rep on repeated WQs on alts. shame

makes the contracts not really worth it anymore

[tropic trail]

How do you guys get this cat? There is basically no battle pets in that zone

[upper pasture]

old tazavesh had them

[tropic trail]

You mean in old dungeon?

[upper pasture]

yup, well the current tazavesh probably still has them but we can't go in there yet

[rain cave]

I'm just saying that it doesn't imply they had either kind of leg

humans, who are a plantigrade species like most WoW races, can walk on a curved spring leg like the ones the brokers use

that's why I mentioned the amputee thing

[warm topaz]

i love leak season, i think it's what i miss the most from not knowing what expansion comes next

[ember blaze]

share some leaks

[sleek solar]

True, but they can basically choose, why would they not use that what is natural?

[lavish raptor]

people like sick body mods sometimes

my headcanon was that the brokers had more simple armor appearances when they first left k'aresh but then developed their own culture diverged from the ethereals throughout time

and updated their armor later on to reflect the difference in culture

[warm topaz]

they're pretty bad lol

but it's fun to read them

I remember back in DF the pirate expansion vs dwarf expansion leaks

[rain cave]

running blades are better than normal feet for running

like literally amputees using running blades are about 20% more energy efficient I believe

[sleek solar]

But they seem normalized

[rain cave]

but even then we see brokers have different shells/forms depending on what they do

like the spidery ones

there's nothing really natural about the brokers or ethereals, that's a big part of their races

they inhabit their current forms out of necessity

[sleek solar]

I wonder if we will restores not just Karesh, but their physical bodies too

[rain cave]

I doubt we're restoring karesh

[sleek solar]

Dont we restore the world soul, which causes the eco life to be able to exist without the domes?

[rain cave]

we don't have a method to really do it, it's literally fractured to hell and the world soul is barely there

eco domes aren't the same as the planet though

[sleek solar]

The eco domes are on a part of the planet afaik

[ember blaze]

🛌 share them anyways. dont bring up leaks and not show what u saw lol

[lavish raptor]

sometimes things get fashionable

[sleek solar]

Yeah BigSaint already convinced me 😄

[lavish raptor]

either way id imagine 100k years (or however long it was) is enough time where they no longer feel beholden to their original bodies

[little hound]

The Eco Domes provide limited areas of life, the Worldsoul of K'aresh is dead, loooong dead and destroyed.

[sleek solar]

There were some leaks that the worldsoul will be " restarted" again after the raid I believe

[deep pawn]

Aldani seems to suggest K'aresh is partly alive after the raid

[little hound]

We'll see after tuesday once we get the last cinematics / Cutscenes. Seems weird to be able to restore a Worldsoul though.

[sleek solar]

If it's not 100% gone, it might be boosted

[little hound]

If any of it is left, it might be able to remain alive on one of the smaller islands, to atleast keep PART Of K'aresh alive.

[uncut vault]

The main story goes out of its way to dispel this idea lol

[little hound]

True.

[uncut vault]

We're explicitly told that the Eco-Domes would not function to sustain life if the worldsoul was dead

[little hound]

Interesting..

There is a shot of a cutscene with Ve'nari holding up the ritual dagger, maybe she is also one of the Oracles of K'aresh. She sure seems to know alot about them during the Dungeon.

[clear apex]

Did you not watch the cut scenes?

They.. Xal pretty much implies the soul keeps the domes alive and its ambiguous if she actually let them hear Karesh's voice

But it might just be manipulation

[little hound]

I did, i assume it was just Xal faking the voice in Soul Scribe's head to deceive her.

[uncut vault]

I don't think Ve'nari herself was an Oracle, we see her prior to K'aresh's destruction in the short story and she's just a top spy/scout for the Ravel

Compared to Salhadaar, who is a part of the Oracles and also in the Ravel

[little hound]

King Saladbar.

[clear apex]

An aside note, do certain items let you hear whispers from the void? I got a void trinket on my hunter and didn't know if that was from the trinket or being on karesh

[little hound]

I can't help but keep calling him King Saladbar.

[clear apex]

I don't blame you

I want his shirt mog

[little hound]

Love the "Use:" On the mace he drops though, big auto-loot and evaporates the corpses 😄

[warm topaz]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2663261-WoW-Midnight-Leak?p=54732567#post54732567

pretty bad, it's just people making up stuff

[little hound]

Yeeeah.

Lots of people make shit up this close to a reveal.

[warm topaz]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2663263-midnight?p=54732578#post54732578

this one has an imagine make with AI 🤣

but i dunno, i love to read those, it makes me more hype

[little hound]

I can't even be bothered to read those, so much BS pulled out of their asses 😄

[warm topaz]

it's funny cos the first comment says: "i hate "leak" season so much" 🤣

[uncut vault]

"tank spec based on sarkareth" is so funny because we already have the sarkareth spec

he literally used Augmentation abilities lol

[ember blaze]

sark is the dev of the commander wings 🤔

[upper pasture]

That’s how you know it’s fake lol 😂

[ember blaze]

also, i know holly mentioned they will focus more on role playing in the future

do you think we will see music like in ff14

specially if they introduce the radiant song class

[uncut vault]

We already kind of are with the Dimensius track tbh

It feels ripped straight from an FFXIV trial fight

[ember blaze]

no i mean, players being able to play music

and assuming a bard class comes with new instrument weapons 🤔

if they stick with the crystal idea

it also sounds like what league of legends does

https://tenor.com/view/seraphine-league-of-legends-dance-dancing-kpop-gif-19003337

kinda mixing the crystals with tech

and you got a whole musician who uses it to amplify her voice

ahem

and it kinda follows if its titan themed with all their tech and what not

[upper pasture]

Idk, I see bard and tinker. As two different classes and not a hodgepodge of the two tbh

[ember blaze]

idk i feel like its not too crazy

specially with this icon

[upper pasture]

I just hope we get more support type classes

[pulsar minnow]

I really liked the idea of the fake leak bard spec that retooled the idea of musical empowerment via the radiant song

[ember blaze]

and the dj boss already mixes the two

[upper pasture]

Yeah but a player class that does the same instead of just giving us two different classes, there already a lot of stuff being added that fleshes out tinkers and bards a lot more than we previously had at least

Like I said last night the brokers techomancy is being expanded and could easily be one tree of a tinker class

[pulsar minnow]

Oh yeah I agree

I think blizz has definitely learned that meeting the players halfway on a certain mechanic doesn’t work out well for them

[upper pasture]

So why just lump bard and tinkerer together and ruin it, I feel like with enough time we can have both classes separate instead of together

[pulsar minnow]

Definitely

Tinker can have a mech focused tank class, a healer bot support/heal spec and maybe a turret DPS spec

[warm topaz]

c'mon this is amazing

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[upper pasture]

I’d love tinkerer to be a support turret spec

[pulsar minnow]

Lmfao

Torbjorn but in wow

[upper pasture]

Didn’t you ever wonder what those little void balls Xal has are? They are George’s soul

[pulsar minnow]

Make their 2 min cd molten core

[tulip sun]

I imagine there is gonna be countless leaks over the next week before gamescon

SO excited to actually learn what it'll be

[upper pasture]

Yeah leaks are fun to read but when people treat them like gospel it’s…sad

[pulsar minnow]

I learned my lesson from the Khaz Algar leak last leak season

I was so convinced those fake screenshots were real. The one with the direhorn and rock orc dwarf

Then the leak that nobody really believed and tossed out immediately ended up being the one

[tulip sun]

With tech nowadays it can be convincing

[uncut vault]

Jailer aside, I appreciate the attempt to mimic Metzen's old concept maps

[deep pawn]

I'd totally welcome more racial customization

I just need high elf fans to shut up

The crux of their complaints are just missing tattoos, the void elf racial, and that people without RP add-ons can see them as not high elves

Rip West Coast folks trying to catch the reveal lol

[ember blaze]

what happened to xals balls on her shoulders 💀

[clear apex]

Helf exist!! they just dont have their own slot on the cc

[deep pawn]

That's not enough though! Lol

I'm not kidding when High Elf fans are upset about being called void elves and having the racial, and "too many emo haircuts"

[clear apex]

Id really like to see void elves get normal blood elf hairs since ...well they were/are belf/helf then took the void

[deep pawn]

More customization is welcome. I don't need an expansion feature or allied race slot being taken up by high elves when their differences are less than High mountain Tauren

[clear apex]

Mountain tauren just needed to be new Tauren customization

condense things please

[pulsar minnow]

More customization for blood elves and void elves would be fantastic. Blood elf males got what? Like 4 hairstyles and beard options in the SL overhaul? And obv more skin color options

Would love to see arcane/far strider tattoos thrown in

[clear apex]

draenei really need help, gnomes, undead, Belf

like how they said allied wouldnt get as much but some have a lot more

tauren

[pulsar minnow]

Nightborne have so many now yet they still look jank as hell 😭

[clear apex]

are they even the same model? they didnt look quite the same as the ones in NH, or so I feel

[pulsar minnow]

Oh they’re a completely brand new model