beta-ptr-spoilers

[ember blaze]

well having mobility spells is very different when u describe them as using mobility in combat

everyone has movement

but DH is the only one that comes to mind who actually uses mobility in combat

and maybe evokers?

[glass flicker]

I'm just saying. At least get your spec descriptions right.

Death Knights make sense as the slow class, because they're literally undead in plate. In a way, it makes them more terrifying.

Here comes a hulking behemoth of grafted flesh and saronite plate, ready to ruin your day as soon as it gets to you. And you can't escape their Death Grip.

[deep pawn]

I like current Enh

[glass flicker]

The gameplay is alright, I didn't say it's not fun. :D

I just wish they did more combining the elements to do stuff, like what Thrall did versus Garrosh.

Fireball to the face, wind to blow him down, magma hand, lightning strike.

Gameplay Enhancement? No real elemental combinations. Just the same elements. Frost Shock and Ice Spike, or Flame Shock and Lava Lash.

They just need one spell they can imbue with any element based on the ability used before it.

A tornado just fits.

[ember blaze]

isnt that what they do

[glass flicker]

Not really? Thrall used combination attacks, we just use whatever comes off CD first. 😂

[ember blaze]

u might not like the gameplay but it seems like they do what u want

[glass flicker]

??

I said I like the gameplay. I'm just adding stuff to it.

[deep pawn]

Primordial Storm is pretty epic

[uncut vault]

Enhancement has exactly what you described in its current kit haha

[glass flicker]

Does it? :o
I haven't played it since the Radiant Echoes.

[deep pawn]

You could argue it needs more ice, but I don't really care about ice lol

[glass flicker]

Interesting.

[ember blaze]

my problem with wow combat is that most can be boiled down to build resource > spend it

[glass flicker]

Well, yes and no.

[deep pawn]

Stormbringer is very very lightning heavy but some like that

[glass flicker]

My problem with WoW combat is that it's two thirds standing and hitting.

I like having to dodge AoE as long as it's not Touhou.

Sire Denathrius and Underpin are tedious to me all because of their AoE.

And then, Xy'veza...

Hoo boy, will this annoy me.

[upper pasture]

well, do you want to make combat more interactive or not?

have you seen that one raid boss? my guild is cooked

[glass flicker]

I do, but not excessively so. I want you to be able to dodge something without needing an Evoker Rescue or Leap of Faith.

[upper pasture]

i know a certain shaman that will die every time the beams go off

[glass flicker]

To speak plain, I want interactive boss fights that don't require you to kick bombs, like Underpin. xD

[ember blaze]

they brought up why they do so much movement heavy stuff

[glass flicker]

No more clickables in boss fights, especially if the boss hitbox obscures them.

[upper pasture]

Denathrius was pretty bad ngl some classes had to run right away or else they were doomed without assistance but underpin shouldn't be too bad

[ember blaze]

i forgot what they said tho

anyone know?

it was a recent interview im pretty sure

[glass flicker]

Yup.

[upper pasture]

keybind your damn interact key

[glass flicker]

I did because I was annoyed.

[upper pasture]

same, made kicking the bombs easy

[glass flicker]

But don't you think Blizzard shouldn't have to add an interact key in their game about standing and hitting? xD

[upper pasture]

no? lets them add so much more to fights

[lavish raptor]

it was originally intended as an accessibility aid

[upper pasture]

sure beats having an item randomly being added for one mechanic

[glass flicker]

I'll let them add more to fights when the things they add also add something to the experience of a fight. Playing football in the middle of a fight isn't "adding something."
You know what else they could've done instead? Made Underpin's shield require you to interact with parts of his mech, by pulling out tubes or damaging his pipes.

I'd have preferred that to kicking bombs.

[upper pasture]

i''d prefer the bombs actually help with his shield for less bursty classes

didn't make much sense that the bombs hurt the adds but not him

[glass flicker]

You wouldn't need burst to press the interact key next to the boss himself.

All while AoE rains down so you have to pick a spot carefully.

[upper pasture]

that's the point of the challenge tho

to play "smart"

[glass flicker]

Yeah, exactly.

[ember blaze]

seems like swirls are a result of addon reliance, and its one of those things addons cant solve so they do a lot of it

[glass flicker]

Yup. Sadness.

I would rather have the Explosive affix back than deal with swirlies.

[ember blaze]

at least thats what i understood from this wowhead summary lol

Theres also the side effect of everyone crying about wanting mobility

so they end up with more swirls

[deep pawn]

what do y'all think about all the water sounds datamined

[ember blaze]

resto shaman buffs

[ember blaze]

weird ass bird

[sleek solar]

......

That looks so fucking sick

[clear apex]

That model looks like it belongs in Cata

I'm a bit confused why its face is an arakkoa

[pulsar minnow]

Because it’s a vulture/condor. an animal arrakoa are also based on

[little hound]

The graphics on that thing makes it look like it came from TBC times..

[tropic trail]

You know what i saw? That dark heart will literally swallow dimensius 👀

[deep pawn]

look at actual TBC mounts and you'll see the difference

but ethereals were first met in TBC so not a shocker there's callbacks

[uncut vault]

I think it's just the quality of the screenshot, the mount is plenty HD

[zealous sedge]

So is like the theory of a classic+ all the QoL functions in the modern game just set in classic era? Cause I’d play the hell out of that.

Like if we had seasons like we do in modern wow with M+ and raid difficulty tiers that would be amazing. Although that’s probably a ton of work for the devs.

[deep pawn]

There was the survey that asked about modern models and collections and stuff

I'd take it

[upper pasture]

I’d take it but the dungeons were definitely not built for it that’s for sure

[zealous sedge]

Ah yes one more neck piece from one dungeon ought to do the trick

They need to add some sort of vendor that uses valorstones and crests to swap out stats

Or maybe the merit badge from vault can be used for that

[ember blaze]

it is dumb tho how limited rings/necks are from dungeons

but at the very least, they kinda have crafting as a way that solves that issue

[lavish raptor]

Put more rings in Halls of Atonement 🗣️

[zealous sedge]

I will say while I’ve missed a few weeks this season due to to life stuff, I still only just got my hero neck and hero ring (not from the Cartel chip and it’s not even my BiS) maybe 3 weeks ago.

I don’t do M+ though. Only delves and heroic raid

[deep pawn]

Blizzard has kinda gone too far the other direction on some choices haha

At least crafted exists

WoD had too many options but now we're at too few

[zealous sedge]

Yeah it can be tough to balance not just from a class or stat base but also gear acquisition.

The upgrade system and catalyst has been a huge win that can be iterated further. Hopefully we see something down the line in the saga.

I would also say the UI for the character popup could use a modernized update imo.

[ionic terrace]

ooh 11.2.7 internal build

[thin warren]

oooh

[deep pawn]

Makes sense

They're working very far ahead

And there's hints that housing comes in 11.2.7 in some capacity so that may need more public testing

11.2.7 has to be largely done on their side since Midnight Alpha is likely late September into early October.

[little hound]

Wonder what datamines we'll have.

[zealous sedge]

It’s encrypted unfortunately but we’ll see 11.2.5 ptr most likely last week of August

Even though we know 11.2.5 is gonna be 21st anniversary stuff idk if we’ll see much else other than balance and class changes. Maybe a QoL UI update would be a nice surprise.

I also feel like we should have a questline that introduces housing in some way. Like a phased construction zone of a neighborhood with a couple weekly quests over the course of a few weeks with housing rewards and what not.

[deep pawn]

Nah, 11.2.5 ptr will be up on the 14th or so

They've been pretty damn consistent

[zealous sedge]

Oh that’s true

[deep pawn]

11.2 ptr was "early" by being same week as the patch

[zealous sedge]

I was just thinking with the gamescom reveal they might have wanted to hold of until after

[deep pawn]

Nah, odds are there's no story in it so why hold it back

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that makes sense

I still can’t believe we are 2 weeks from patch

[hollow skiff]

i guys, i have a problem and maybe anyone can help me. PTR(11.2.) says since the last build i have to less RAM. Thats not true. Live, Classic, ect. works pretty fine and my pc uses just around 25% RAM while running wow. anybody with the same problem and maybe with a solution? 🙂

reinstall doesnt help :/ i tried

it wants 306 GB RAM? o.o

[plain violet]

Oh, I have that too.. o_o

But only each time I log on a character on the PTR.

[deep pawn]

PTR is down

or at least bugged and has been all day

[warm topaz]

you think we'll have any news before Gamescom?

maybe 11.2.5

[little hound]

11.2.5 involves more story, no? That'd spoil the raid aftermath if we get it before Gamescom

[pulsar minnow]

Next patch is usually announced shortly after the current one releases. So we’ll probably get our announcement at Gamescom

And a new roadmap finally

[warm topaz]

<@&299347348847329281>

[hollow skiff]

there was a news about a encrypted 11.2.7 version.... i havnt read the same about a 11.2.5. till yet.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/encrypted-patch-11-2-7-internal-test-build-on-wowdev-servers-377862

[hollow skiff]

its fixed 🙂

[plain violet]

Oh thanks! :)

[hollow skiff]

you're welcome

[warm topaz]

11.2.5 is too

https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1946035973474693620

Algalon, Enigmatic Observer (@algalon_ghost)

New #Warcraft build found:
Internal (wowdev)🔐: 11.2.5.61107 --> 11.2.5.62079

Found at: 07-18-2025@02:35:05 UTC

X · Jul 18, 2025, 2:35 AM

for a while

July 7th was the first build

[dapper cloak]

ptr down?!

[harsh mason]

Most likely, there will be no story in 11.2.5, but there will be in 11.2.7

[thin warren]

don't say sad things

[pulsar minnow]

Roadmap says 11.2.5 has "New content and system updates" as well as the 21st anniversary event

meanwhile 11.2.7 is story and quests and then content and system updates

also the midnight reveal is scheduled to release before them both - so doubtful we'll see them announced before the midnight reveal

[thin warren]

i'm still hyped for Midnight announcement, still a month 😢

[deep pawn]

To compare the 11.1.5 roadmap didn't mention story either nor did 11.0.5

And well yeah

Nightfall wasn't story

[deep pawn]

and oof, yep, FF14 and WoW now confirmed to be patching same day.

TOO MUCH 😄

[rustic cliff]

do we think Lemix is 11.2.5 or 11.2.7? it feels like the bar starts to get a little green slightly after 2.5 but its the most solid after .7

[deep pawn]

I think .7 myself

December, Jan, Feb for Remix

[upper pasture]

Not soon enough if you ask me lol 😂 unlimited M+ here I come

[warm topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoo4ihNRwuY

some meditation until Gamescom

[lone mantle]

Ah this is exactly what I require!

[little hound]

"Azerother's residents"
Ethereal.. I feel like this is a hint.

[deep pawn]

Or they were too lazy to update the tooltip

Also, Dracthyr don't have one haha

[rain cave]

I mean, technically there are ethereals are reside on azeroth lmao

just go to your capitals transmog

[little hound]

Yeah. But they’ve never been considered residents like playable races are. Odd there are no other non-player races

[rain cave]

tbf it could also be that they realized people were dissapointed no playable ethereals and put that in

as minor a consolation as it is

[deep pawn]

Someone forgot a flag again lol

[little hound]

Only Playable races.

But ONE OF them

Is a strong hint.

[remote shuttle]

I wouldn't hold my breath, as the model it turns you into isn't a player-supported model... But it would be nice if it is!

[little hound]

Maybe, but i'm coping.

And seeing as their lore is either: Join us on Azeroth, or stay and live on your ruined homeworld.. I'd say most would pick the first.

[remote shuttle]

Well, they continued to live on their ruined homeworld.. and well, there is an epilogue largely suggesting they're staying~

[little hound]

From entering the planet, the 2 factions stayed are the Scavangers, and the Shadowguard. One barely surviving, the other being there solely to restore Diabetus.

Dimensius*

[remote shuttle]

The entire lore of the K'aresh Trust faction does seem to imply the import of staying, no?

[little hound]

I've not seen that.

[remote shuttle]

First quest and faction description; But I'll let you discover it organicly.

[little hound]

https://tenor.com/view/chicken-bro-chicken-pinch-gif-14109769

[ember blaze]

no dracthyr

[little hound]

Imagine wanting to look like a race with no visible armor

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/wo-w-gif-25776208

🐈 🐔

[deep pawn]

Dracthyr don't got one

[upper pasture]

so does anyone know what's happening to the belt after the patch ends? overcharged delves are going away does that mean belts will no longer be upgradable?

[ember blaze]

belt is just borrowed power of the patch

[upper pasture]

Yes but it’s a belt that’s good until heroic-ish raid itmlvl for next patch

[deep pawn]

you just can't earn it I presume

[upper pasture]

lame. guess i should work on my belts on characters i plan on playing before the patch drops then

[zealous sedge]

I only have the belt on my main. Will probably try to get it on my warrior I’m thinking about tanking this season. I feel like overcharged delves should’ve come out in .5 so there was a little more time to get it on alts and mount. Summer is busy for a lot of people.

[rain cave]

but haven't they literally said explicitly no ethereals?

like the secret 3rd spec for evokers they just didn't say anything

there wasn't a denial

[little hound]

Yeah. They have also said No to other things that they suddenly did.

And the best time to even introduce a new allied race would be after the raid, when some Ethereals might decide: "Fuck it, i'm not living in this wasteland anymore." like the Lightforged did on the Vindicaar.

[upper pasture]

I don’t think they’ve said “no ethereals PCs” they usually subvert the question with “we’ve made all these new sets to help with RPing as ethereals! If that’s what you choose to do”

It’s almost like they avoid answering the question

So that’s fishy

[rain cave]

hm

well I hope we do get them, but it would be funny to see all the new ethereal armour sets ON an ethereal.

chuck a 2nd layer of bandages on

[upper pasture]

Personally I see the armor for players who want to “dress up” as ethereals but not make the switch, as ethereals if playable will probably function like evokers in limited mog potential

I’m all for more character customization/races. So I’m team ethereal and anything else. Letting people have more isn’t gonna take away from my experience/enjoyment

[little hound]

If.. IIF They do give us Ethereals? Please don't give them the Evoker Treatment with invisible showing armor..

[little hound]

No shame in wiping twice.

[rain cave]

"hey guys playable ethereals! Explore Azeroth as the remnants of the people of K'aresh. Customize your glamour form with some extra customisations, then switch into your full ethereal form whenever you want. To prevent your bandages from being covered up, only shoulders and belts will appear on your ethereal form. But don't worry! you can still see your full transmog on your glamour form!"

[deep pawn]

They said they had no plans to add Ethereals and they hope all the cosmetics work for player expression

[rain cave]

that's what I thought

[little hound]

They also denied Evokers getting a 3rd spec.

[deep pawn]

they said nothing to announce for that

[tropic trail]

Really I thought there is void spec

Or no that was for DH

[little hound]

Icons and models have been found for that.

[deep pawn]

it's just the raid boss...

could still happen

but we haven't seen anything specific yet

the void meta icon is the most telling if anything

[little hound]

I'm still hoping for it, datamining shows a good possibility.

[glass flicker]

I just don't know what they could really do with a void DH spec. It's just gonna be another melee DPS with leather, like we don't have enough of those. Or DH could be the first class with two tank specs.

[rain cave]

Havoc is a very fast button mash spec focused largely around its glaives and speed

so I imagine a void spec could be a more medium pace spec with a different fantasy around void magic and devouring

since DH's devoured a demon soul, and vengeance has a lot of stuff playing into absorbing soul shards

[clear apex]

Be great if that survey from late last year was implemented and they added those new classes

[rain cave]

maybe this would be a more void focus on that, and instead of fel rushing they blink

I will say though that I personally think that if we do get a 3rd DH spec, if their meta form IS just a recoloured havoc form like the one datamined that's a bit dissapointing

not a dealbreaker though

[clear apex]

On the topic of playable ethereal, would there really be enough customization to keep people happy?

You'd be androgynous, no face, maybe pick your bandage color and what glow you are and possibly no armor would fit you (like drac)

They had a lot for tuskaar and they're not playable

[rain cave]

bandage colour, bandage texture/writing/style, energy colour, jewellry, (neck, wrist, ankle, body even) gendered body types, underwear if you want it (includes shirt, shorts, etc), extra details like if you want loose bandages hanging off the back of your shoulders or waist, face bandage style (fully wrapped? small gap? large gap? just a hole where the face is? maybe a mouth gap only, etc)

[glass flicker]

If we do get a void DH spec, I want its focus to be around more than two or three abilities like Havoc.

[clear apex]

But there's no gender bodies in the ptr so you'd likely just be androgynous

[glass flicker]

With Havoc, you got Demon's Bite, Chaos Strike, and Eye Beam.

Maybe Felblade if you spec into it and Demon Blades.

[rain cave]

blade dance as well

[glass flicker]

If you need the AoE.

[rain cave]

nah it's single target as well

[glass flicker]

Interesting.

[dense plover]

no it doesnt

as someone in the biggest datamining discord, when augmentation was being added we had a bunch of stuff hinting at a new spec including ability strings, new talent files, new art that was encrypted

we dont have any of that

now they could add in a spec in 11.2.5 or 11.2.7 and we wouldnt know since those files arent dataminable yet since theyre not playable, but right now, there is near 0 evidence for a new spec, especially before 11.2.5/11.2.7

you really shouldnt get your hope up - i think its far more likely we get new races for DH before we get a new spec

especially with legion timewalking approaching

[little hound]

Let me cope damnit.

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-cat-cat-screaming-black-cat-meme-memes-2023-gif-5774825797503791230

[rain cave]

I think it is more likely that we get it in the .5 patch if we see it at all

and it could always be the case that the files just aren't datamineable because they've done a better job at keeping them specifically on he .5 patch's branch of the game

hell maybe it's encrypted as well

[dense plover]

no - not in this case, we would still have sections of files that are encrypted that arent

like talents, talent strings, etc

bare minimum there would be encrypted files that are a certain filetype that we just dont see

so it isnt coming with 11.2 if at all

we will see when 11.2.5 hits ptr

[plain violet]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/spell=1244517/from-vengeance-to-void We did had that, but it's not enough at all.. x_x

Clearly not enough elements.

[dense plover]

that looks like part of a raid ability

or something tied to a behind the scenes effect

like particles or pools being dropped as part of an environmental effect

[plain violet]

We know it's a 5s cast time, with sound.. quite possible!

[dense plover]

also no chance a void DH would have the spec called void

we have vengeance and havoc - it would still be along those lines

like chaos or corruption or something

[plain violet]

Maybe. I don't really believe we'll get it anytime soon, more like a slight tease and maaaybe during Midnight...

But new races for sure!

As the void elf is still here with her glaive..

[dense plover]

most likely are void elf and nightborne, but they would still need to add DH customizations of some kind

i hope they do expand demon hunter to more races, allied race DH could skip the starting zone so they dont have to worry about that

[plain violet]

THis would be very great yes! :)

[deep pawn]

They wouldn't need to do much. I wager they just let the Nightborne skin look slightly odd

And they'll just use the existing meta forms

I really really want void elf paladin that actually has eclipse imagery. They could make it work for Elune too

The night warrior after all was one big eclipse

11.2.5 ptr should be up before Gamescom

It's possible a new spec is delayed until 11.2.7 which will start remix I think

[dense plover]

oh for sure - i more meant like, blindfolds, scars, eyes, skin color/texture, horns, and tattoos

its not that much work

[austere gazelle]

there are bing hint, not subtle at all. of course they won't put it in the file yet because its the element of surprise, but everything here on how it was set up tease a new spec

[dense plover]

they cant just not put files in

thats not how a consistent codebase works

they have to be in a version

whether thats 11.2, 11.2.5, or 11.2.7

[austere gazelle]

.. yes ? They will put the file in the version that will have them, which is not 11.2... ?

Evoker was put all over the place because it was planned from start and wasn't really a surprise to begin with

Dh on the contrary... big surprise moment, nobody expected it so soon ( I expected it for TLT and the return of Illidan Tbh )

Anyway, they put the hint so in front of our face, that everyone is talking about a third spec. They even added a side quest only for that and an optional encounter with three DH of different spec each.

Results ? Everyone thought the same thing and everyone is talking about a third spec. If its just a transmog or new DH race, it'll fumble hard ( but it'll be third spec AND new races imo )

[deep pawn]

Hell I'm sure the encrypted preorder rewards are in 11.2 already

[upper pasture]

I’m excited for gamescon, can’t wait to hear about housing and midnight too

[remote shuttle]

Housing will be streamed too by any streamers goin'~

[upper pasture]

Yup, and they will in turn get lots of hands on time with it and let us know

[deep pawn]

Towellie said he was invited and he just couldn't take the time during raid prog

There's a strong chance the 12.1 race is during Blizzcon next year too

Would explain them being sad about not being able to adjust Blizzcon timing

[clear apex]

T&E said they're hosting a creator clash for housing

[dense plover]

thats much more likely

stuff like mounts and transmog can have just the models in the game and then the strings and data can be patched in on a tuesday with the encryption key

thats much MUCH easier to hide than an entire spec

[uncut vault]

The above is what that is

[plain violet]

Oh, thanks!

[deep pawn]

They are indeed, they just picked a rough time to expect content creators to show up

Considering unlike Liquid and Echo, they aren't providing a space for those creators to actually work while they're there. 4 hours during peak season engagement is not much for the travel

I have to imagine they aren't getting many players for that dungeon race thing they set up

Blizzard really believes in housing though

They flew content creators in overseas for the Boston stuff

Round trip tickets for an afternoon

[warm topaz]

i mean, they created a whole new team for that feature

it's crazy to not believe in it

[deep pawn]

But to pay for air fare and accomodations overseas for 4 hours?

I just signed up to work 12-9pm on patch day. It'll be the first to go off flawless

[graceful idol]

for those who seen ptr raid jsut the mechanics. are theere a lot of ST bosses? or movement heavy bosses?

[tropic trail]

It’s ethereals entering void or?

[plain violet]

From what I understand it's for a book talking about ethereals morals and the king betrayal...

[tropic trail]

It’s kinda interesting not gonna lie. This new season will be good for me

[plain violet]

I am sure! Eager to see...

[lone mantle]

I am also quite enthusiastic, as I have been anticipating cosmic themes since the conclusion of Shadowlands.

[tropic trail]

Yea not much time left about 2 weeks or so, hehe

[dense plover]

none of this is new - we knew we were fighting dimensius inside the dark heart

thats why part of dalaran is inside of it

[deep pawn]

The question is the dialog where Xal suggests she's sacrificing herself to stay behind

So I don't know where we go from that to her killing Locus Walker.

[dreamy dove]

Read somewhere that she actually plans to drain the dark heart to fuel herself

[little hound]

She probably stays in there with Dimensius, eats him, pops out of the Dark Heart and goes full Dio.

[dreamy dove]

REAL QUESTION HERE IS
As far as i understood, she was the one that gave ethereals their actual forms
SO
How old are they? How old is locus walker? She was imprisoned waaaaaay before the war between the titans and old gods

[little hound]

From the recent lore videos? She is hundreds of thousands of years old.

[deep pawn]

ethereals are older than any race on Azeroth including dragons

like outright GAPS them in age

it's amazing any are sane.

[austere gazelle]

K'aresh destruction happened 100 000 years ago ( sundering was 10 000 years ago )
Xal's was already dimensius silver surfer at that moment, so she is older than 100 000 yo.
As Alleria said ... " A survivor from the depth of time "

As for the Haranir... We will return to Silithus at one point because of " What sword ? " so since there is Un'goro crater + Khaz Algar near, I guess they'll be featured at that moment

[zealous sedge]

Waiting til this dialogue:

“The sword missed, it was meant for Un’Goro”

Honestly though Un’Goro I feel could definitely could be a plot point in the future. Forgive my lack of knowledge around this but maybe it wasn’t an actual crater but a massive titan facility that either blew up or maybe this was where Aman’thul ripped out Y’sharj

[rain cave]

that would be an interesting idea if there was a timeskip after TWW

[upper pasture]

I believe it’s the second half, where aman’thul ripped out a world tree sapling

[austere gazelle]

I think its where Elune'ahir was uprooted. Its close enough to khaz algar to have its roots going deep into the earth there

And there was a plot point back then were the sillithid ( old gods creation ) couldnt go or settle there as if it was a sacred place.

But after the cataclysm they started to settle, which could be tied with the roots being infected with the black blood

Its also a natural reservoir that could be tied to Elune as in Elunaria

[dreamy dove]

Ethereals, not xal
From what they shown us they predate the old gods in azeroth?

[tropic trail]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo's-bizarre-adventure-pillarmen-gif-11056695249194424168

Xal is like “awaken my masters”

[pulsar minnow]

Ethereals are ancient. They’re a very very old species

[dreamy dove]

🤔 wonder how old
This is kinda intriguing

[pulsar minnow]

Thousands of years at least. We don’t know the exact date of the devouring war

[tropic trail]

Ethereals are older than Eredar

This fact alone speaks volumes

[little hound]

True.

[pulsar minnow]

Something random I just thought about- have we seen Alleria go void form this entire expansion?

She used to swap between forms all the time but since TWW has just been in her normal form

[little hound]

Nope.

Not since they gave her a new model.

I feel like we'll get to see it maybe in a cinematic at the end of this next raid, or in Midnight.

Weird to see her use it so casually back then, and now not at all 😄

[pulsar minnow]

I guess it’d make sense if they want to go the angle of “oh she has more control of it” but I don’t really want that to be the answer

Her void form is just soooo cool

It’s also like, her thing. she’s the reason void elves randomly go purple every 5 seconds

[uncut vault]

Yes-ish

She “embraces the void” again at the end of Hallowfall to kill the Order of Night leader

But they don’t have a model for her void form like her Legion one

So it’s just a lame blue filter lol

[little hound]

Yeeeh.

[pulsar minnow]

maaaannn

Also love that she’s using her old bow for whatever reason

[uncut vault]

Yeah they do that a lot with the Windrunner sisters lol

[pulsar minnow]

Which- I don’t even think that’s the right version of it. She was using the unused model in Argus right? Or was she just holding her bow backwards I forgot

[uncut vault]

In 9.2, Sylvanas uses her Mawsworn bow half the time and her Legion bow the other half

But never her actual new bow from the patch

[uncut vault]

In 7.3, Blizz was seemingly tinkering with maybe adding left handed bow animations, but decided against it

[pulsar minnow]

Just get ready for Vereesa’s new bow! Thas’dorah! Again! (Just kidding blizzard wouldn’t put vereesa in a storyline)

[uncut vault]

You can see remnants of it in the fact that Alleria holds her bow upside down and has a left-handed quiver

Nathanos has one too, with a model from a similar period

[pulsar minnow]

Did vereesa use her bow in her left hand?

[uncut vault]

I don’t think we’ve seen Vereesa use her bow since 7.0 lol

[pulsar minnow]

Better question- have we even seen Vereesa since 7.0?

[uncut vault]

A few times, but nothing actually significant

She’s the alliance co-leader in Suramar in 7.1, she accompanies Arator to Argus and has a brief stay awhile with Alleria

Then she silently shows up in 8.2.5 just so Alleria can say “sylvanas is so strong!” next to her lol

And then in the 9.2 epilogue for Sylvanas’ sentencing

Nothing since then, just a handful of dismissive mentions

She’s basically been relegated to the role of “sad Windrunner sister” ever since Blizzard became adamant about not doing high elves

[pulsar minnow]

Idk if Blizz knows what to even do with Vereesa. They can’t give her some cosmic connection because both her sisters have one and it would feel contrived to give her one

But if they wanted to say she moved back to Quel Thalas I am hoping that there’s some big developments going on there that she can maybe give high elves a story

And not just make Alleria take over that and void elves

[uncut vault]

Ideally, they’d make her the one that’s properly leadership focused compared to the respective ambition and lone wolf tendencies of her sisters

She’s been through her trauma, and came out a leader on the other side, blizzard just needs to get over the whole high elf thing and show that

[pulsar minnow]

(And hopefully give her a cool new model :D)

[uncut vault]

Look, I’ll just count myself lucky if she appears in person this time around lol

[pulsar minnow]

nah see because she actually moved to bel'ameth before midnight 🙂

[dense plover]

https://youtu.be/aQQh1m1r08Y?si=4xUuoKx0v2sCGFON

[warm topaz]

what's that tho?

[deep pawn]

who's Lora, neat

It's unlisted so something we weren't supposed to see yet

[dense plover]

no it was shared by a content creator

[lone mantle]

Interesting.

[dense plover]

it was in the wow secret finding discord

[warm topaz]

it's an ad?

[dense plover]

uh - sorta but not

its definitely lore still

[warm topaz]

yeah but, that #WoW_Partner...

[upper pasture]

definitely looks like a "leak"

planned by blizzard

[deep pawn]

the fact it has the hashtag

[dense plover]

i mean yeah

obviously

but that doesnt mean the video is not interesting

[deep pawn]

has anyone else seen the image for Friday? I don't know if it came from a twitter post or what

if its real that feels like a prelaunch cinematic

[dense plover]

this?

its from the wow secret finding discord too

its likely a prepatch cinematic

[pulsar minnow]

Praying its a flashback to the fall of K'aresh

[deep pawn]

yeah, it's unofficial art but the time seems real since this is a content creator ad campaign

cinematic feels right for this type of thing

[uncut vault]

I feel like they won’t reveal that before the patch

Just because it’s supposed to be a big reveal as to the true circumstances in the campaign

And they make a point of omitting it from the short story

[tropic trail]

Man it even leads to an official wow YouTube. Ofc it is a secret-finding clue.

[upper pasture]

what i meant was it's just blizzard trying to be sneaky with it, IE gave it to a partner to "leak" to drum up excitement for the announcement, not something that was datamined and found naturally. doesn't make it any less exciting either way.

[pulsar minnow]

my idea is just what locus walker described in the audio drama

or at least the beginning of it

So just a view of k'aresh before the fall showing cities and whatever, and then flashing to dimensius blotting out the sun

I really just want an excuse to see the ethereal's old forms

[deep pawn]

So Lora is most likely Ta'lora, writer of the Grimoire of the Shadowlands

[tropic trail]

If we get a cinematic of Dimensius appearing over old K’aresh i will make a soy-face.

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-scream-help-me-help-rogue-one-gif-13046895493181952585

[deep pawn]

The subreddit discord has a countdown for Wednesday

the Secrets for Friday

so either it's MWF, or we have people who know about Tuesday and Thursday.

We also have this on the sub.

[novel zodiac]

what's MWF?

[deep pawn]

Monday Wednesday Friday, sorry

[zealous sedge]

I could see an audio sample every day leading to a cinematic Friday

Would be a cool thing to do

[novel zodiac]

its my fault that im getting hyped up all on my own but im going to be so mad if its something stupid

[zealous sedge]

Hope for the best expect the worst my friend and you’ll never be disappointed

What Subreddit is that by the way I can’t find it?

[deep pawn]

r/wow

[zealous sedge]

I thought so I just didn’t see the post at first lol

[deep pawn]

it didn't get much attention

[deep pawn]

Anything pop up on social media yet or are we waiting on the subreddit's decoding

[deep pawn]

Blizzard needs to go back to instanced world bosses

[ember blaze]

at this point theres no more ptr updates right 🤔

[deep pawn]

hotfixes and tunings

[warm topaz]

they NEED to rework world bosses

and world content in general imo

world quests feels so outdated

also rares, rares are useless nowadays

[clear apex]

They made them too much a requirement for things and yeah they're not really "rare"

In DF rares have been up constantly

[warm topaz]

the world is not the main character anymore so i guess this iteration of rares don't have a place in it

designing zones for Dragonriding has also affected exploration and world content a lot

[clear apex]

Yeah a part of me misses ground travel then flying (though i don't want it locked behind pathfinder)

I did ground travel in Tww where i could because i like to explore the zone

Took longer, but i don't mind

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I wouldn’t mind them going the pandaria approach again

Level up on foot then get flying at max level

But leveling is so fast these days it’s kind of pointless. Really they just need to figure out dynamic ground mounts but DRIVE doesn’t make me that hopeful they will

[uncut vault]

That’s the ideal for me, just so that we can actually do something with the world design they’ve been building

Hallowfall and Isle of Dorn have such gorgeous areas, and they’re never seen because you just Whirling Surge past them on the way to the quest marker

And a zone like Hallowfall is clearly written with ground movement in mind

[rain cave]

I sometimes think ground travel would be cool then go to undermine

or remember constanty pulling mobs in WoD, not being able to tab out when travelling

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t know if anyone can relate but I really miss my ground mounts. Flying from the start has kind of made me not even want to collect ground mounts at all because the only time I’d ever see them is in a dungeon- that is if it even allows mounts too

[rain cave]

ground mounts are in an awkward position because sometimes blizz put a ground mount in the trading post or as a reward

and it's like.. what am I meant to do with this?

nobody is going to use this mount

[pulsar minnow]

My prayer is that one of Midnight’s features is dynamic ground mounts taking from lessons learned with drive

I love the idea of riding around on a ground mount thru a Suramar-esque silvermoon city

And it really sucks because Azj-Kahet was definitely hurt badly by flying. Everything in the city was trivialized because you could just fly over it (did anyone ever unlock or bother using pheromones?)

[rain cave]

my wonder for a universal dynamic ground mount, is how do they deal with them being so different?

whilst also being interesting

GW2 solved it by each mounth "type" having a unique ability that fit it

but idk if they'd do that in WoW

[pulsar minnow]

I always liked the idea bellular had in a video, where certain mounts had different abilities

Yeah gw2 I guess

Like the frog mounts could have a super jump for example

[rain cave]

WoW community has an idea for a feature!
look inside
GW2 feature

[pulsar minnow]

Wow at its best. Taking ideas from others and rehashing it

He probably said it was GW2 inspired but this was so long ago and bell has just so many videos I have no idea how to find it

Could be cool if snail and turtle mounts had the ability to go into their shells and drop taunt from enemies (ofc wouldn’t work in dungeons)

[uncut vault]

They tried it with the TWW deluxe edition mount

Unfortunately it was pretty bad lol

[pulsar minnow]

yeah it was horribly designed

[clear apex]

It was more difficult than just dragon flying

Plus the forced straight line ability could really screw you over

[little hound]

Xal’atath reminds me VERY MUCH Of Aaravos. Not always lying, but mostly speaks only in half-truths. Keeping the vital parts to themselves.

https://tenor.com/view/i-manipulated-you-today-aaravos-the-dragon-prince-mystery-of-aaravos-you-were-duped-by-me-today-i-tricked-you-gif-14376664255863492142

[glass flicker]

We call that "omitting information."
It's not lying, but it's definitely not telling the whole truth.

[dense plover]

it is lying - its literally called a lie of omission or lying by omission

saying omitting info isnt lying is what dishonest liars say to not feel guilty

thats why villains will be like "i didnt like, i just didnt tell you everything"

which, yes you did lie, by not telling everything

[glass flicker]

Then I guess I've been living in a den of snakes.

[clear apex]

Sometimes you don't need to volunteer all info if the person doesn't need to know

[dense plover]

thats still a lie of omission

thats literally one of the most common types of lies

its not necessarily evil

but someone who hides something evil through a lie of omission is

[jade basalt]

Technically omission is not a lie, even if we popularly call it a "lie" of omission, if we consider a lie to be specifically/technically a false statement, intended to deceive someone. It's a deception.

Omitting information can also be deception (if it's intended to mislead).

Both lying and omitting information are forms of deception. But they're not exactly equivalent, even if the result can be similar. There's this example in:

"Do you testify that you will tell the:
truth,
the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?"
lying would violate the first and third elements, while omission would violate the second element.

[hard axle]

What series/novel is that from?

[little hound]

The Dragon Prince, on Netflix

[hard axle]

many thanks, is it adapted from a novel?

[little hound]

Don't think so

[tropic trail]

The only thing I actually see being taken from GW2 is a dynamic flying.
It can be said that “delves” conceptually were borrowed from ESO - mini very short public dungeons.

[clear apex]

Eso delves are imo a bit more fun with the public aspect

[tropic trail]

“Huh Humans/Elfs but from Middle East” - I too would be stoked for “Arabian expansion”.

[clear apex]

Though i like the choice of solo delves in wow

[tropic trail]

BRANN IS ALL WE NEED. I will miss his sorry-ass healing technique.

MELVIN DELVIN

[deep pawn]

I want cat people, let's go full nekomimi and see the horde crumble.

[clear apex]

Let's add khajiit and charr competition

[deep pawn]

nah, just do miqo'te

[clear apex]

I bet catfolk would be popular

They're hardly cats

[deep pawn]

So? Cat eared humans would probably rapidly be the most played race in the game lol.

think of the race change profits

[clear apex]

🤔 maybe option for human face and cat heads then

They've shown they can do a lot of options with dracthyr

Then the weebs and furries can be happy

[lone mantle]

Yes, please.

[deep pawn]

cooldown manager update preview

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24226697/the-cooldown-manager-and-future-updates

[warm topaz]

they're really working on it

that's neat

[deep pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFK5181rcws

[rain cave]

M+ is fractals from GW2, Dynamic Flying is similar to the gryphon flying system in GW2, the trading post is similar to the rotating cosmetics that go through the GW2 cash/premium shop, hero specs are similar to the elite specs in GW2

[dense plover]

cooldown manager changes are great

cant wait to see those

ive been using it and while helpful ive definitely wanted to toggle some abilities off or move certain parts or track things in a different order

[deep pawn]

I'm midcore and found it useful

but community consensus was "TRASH"

[ember blaze]

even sound alerts 👀

[dense plover]

its only trash if you needed it for high end content

these changes do a lot though

and theyre more accessible than most addons

[deep pawn]

finally trading post news

[clear apex]

Ehhhhh not to keen on this one i don't think

The chess mog makes me think of paladins

[deep pawn]

black and white might be cool.

[ember blaze]

i use it for high end content

theres some stuff missing, but I just add a weakaura for it

otherwise it does what it needs to do

[tropic trail]

Now that you bring up Maze plus influence … it made me hate GW2 even more.

[dense plover]

no i mean like world first people

sorry - i shouldve been more specific

[pulsar minnow]

odd question - do we know if visions are going away in 11.2

[deep pawn]

they're on ptr at least.

[pulsar minnow]

hopefully they still drop gear

[deep pawn]

it'll be the s2 gear

[pulsar minnow]

yeah thats what im hoping for

an easy way to farm tier mog from s2

[thin warren]

Buy them now from the undercoin vendor and get free catalyst transmo in S3

[pulsar minnow]

yeah but that only covers LFR and Normal mode

Visions will cover Heroic and if you upgrade it now, Mythic

[thin warren]

Oh, I see

I only want normal

I have full heroic

[little hound]

When are we going to get a Frostmourne Cosmetic?

[rain cave]

Completely random but a bakery themed trading post month with crustmourne. Forged from the finest baked goods. The twirly horns in the guard are croissants, the skull made from scored bread

[little hound]

Okay, i usualy hate on things as of late.. But i'd love that 😄

[rain cave]

Instead of deathly frost it emanates the steam of a freshly baked loaf

You hunger for crustmourne

[little hound]

Steamy.

[glass flicker]

I got it!

This is the third DH spec.

[rain cave]

Pluh

[lone mantle]

That reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOZXWMjVkc4

[glass flicker]

[lyric heart]

I’d play a demon hunter if I could be specced into kpop

[deep pawn]

I sacrificed the honmoon, what have you given.

[rain cave]

Heels, Nails, Glaives, Mascara
Fit check for my fel rush era

[pulsar minnow]

https://youtube.com/shorts/M8PtdXdBlow?si=f_SZR3DCbxWwE4HT

Is the music in this trailer in game?

Or is it stock music

[warm topaz]

stock i think

[pulsar minnow]

Weirdly enough the Warcraft account on Instagram responded to a comment about the music and said “our music team knows how to cook”

My guess is the social media guy just didn’t know lol

[warm topaz]

they could have composed it for the video

but it's not in game 100%

[pulsar minnow]

this makes me sad

tbh its probably stock but it sounds really good

they did a similar thing with the dragonflight launch reveal

[warm topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOykXWMtfic

i like what Derek Duke did for the raid music tho

very TBC vibes

[pulsar minnow]

yeah its great

Ethereal Combat is also fantastic

[warm topaz]

i can't wait for Silvermoon and Eversong Woods music

that NEED to slap

i hope they use the same instruments

[pulsar minnow]

for sure

kind of off topic but is Ghostlands still the ghostlands in lore?

Wonder if they'd go full in on creepy woods musicy vibes for the first zone

Also wonder if they'll bring back some ooooold troll music with Zul Aman

[tropic trail]

Damn this is gonna be good

[dense plover]

well - theyll probably be a full orchestra

if i remember right, classic and tbc music was a mix of real and fake instruments

its very likely those zones will have redone themes that are built off the existing ones

but they cant be the same since the themes are also heavily built on TBC core music themes

and we arent going to be in TBC

[deep pawn]

In terms of a new class or spec, we have nothing to announce, but it does sound really cool.”

This quote right damn here is the difference.

This is what a dev said about the soul hunters being a dh spec hint

Vs "No plans" for playable Ethereals and "we hope all the transmog and toys fill that gap"

[dense plover]

effectively the same response

the ridiculous copium y'all have is gonna lead to you being angry if/when nothing happens

there is no evidence for a new spec currently

[deep pawn]

It's not. Blizzard is pretty consistent about the nothing to announce hints

[ember blaze]

there is

its all but guaranteed

[deep pawn]

maybe they've just gotten better at encrypting strings and stuff. I'm not expecting the spec this patch anyways

11.2.5 at the earliest

[clear apex]

People said "all druid in bfa, then in df" didn't happen

Nelf paladin cause a nelf paladin exists. Didn't happen

A lot of the evidence isn't evidence

The void demon hunter? Might just exist to tell us why they can't exist since he become a side raid boss

There's been a void paladin, where's my void paladins?

[clear apex]

And in the solo dungeon with bots, there's a tank shaman right? Still no tank shaman spec

[deep pawn]

As far as I know Blizzard hasn't said a thing about the Void Elf Paladin in interviews

[clear apex]

Id like these things to be added but i don't see it being anytime soon

I only pointed her out since she's been around since before tww launch and we dont have that.

[deep pawn]

There's a difference between stuff in game vs stuff they agree to answer in interviews.

We know that class expansion will continue when the lore fits it/artwork is done

But that's always been a longer term project.

Whenever Tyr shows up again maybe we'll get all races Paladin.

[clear apex]

If they did let belf demon hunter be void doesn't that counter their whole "void elves can't be near the sunwell"

[deep pawn]

not necessarily?

technically in lore no Void Elf or Demon Hunter has been to the Sunwell that we know of? Alleria was there briefly and switfly exiled.

maybe by the time a void elf gets there it'll already be corrupted.

[clear apex]

Wasnt the whole thing about velf being accepted into the alliance all about protecting the sunwell bc they couldn't chance it?

[deep pawn]

No? Horde didn't want them for dabbling in the void and nearly destroying part of Quel'thalas.

Alliance was "Their loss, we need troops against Sylvanas."

Alleria and the Void Elves were the only reason the Alliance won Lordaeron.

[ember blaze]

those things arent the same anyways

[clear apex]

Did we win it though? No one can go there

[ember blaze]

theres no storyline where you go ally some druid mechagon

and teach them how to be druids

[clear apex]

That's not why

Example: dracthyr could only be 1 class. Now theyre not because they were taught to be other things.

Kul tiran and worgen are humans and can be druid.
In bfa (kul tiran could teach others possibly) or df (you know the whole emerald dream bit?), they could have taught many races to be druid

[ember blaze]

they straight up said that was coming 🤔

[ember blaze]

yeah and they never went out of their way to make a whole storyline about it

but they have about void spec

[clear apex]

I don't care one way or the other

Someone mentioned people get hopes up for nothing and then get pissed when it's not announced.
I'm just giving examples of past hopium

They thought we were getting playable tuskarr in df bc of the models. And they gave them kids and big rep. Nothing

[deep pawn]

Again not something I can recall the devs talking about a lot.

When wowhead and devs talk about something it's usually to prepare

[little hound]

Solution: Wait and see what happens instead of getting Spicy at eachother for your opinion. If it happens, it happens. If not? Too bad.

[clear apex]

I'm glad we have you here to tell us that

[little hound]

https://tenor.com/view/yeahhhh-mira-kpop-demon-hunters-celebrating-hyped-gif-2627650527890037765

[deep pawn]

I like the Kpop Demon Hunter meme going around

[deep pawn]

Marlamin out here with the good stuff

[rain cave]

a hearthstone that summons one of those warbly void portals would be cool

or even a mini sunwell portal hearthstone effect lmao

[deep pawn]

That said there's some effects on the table that aren't encrypted and it's a light effect

and 2 of the mounts when hit use holy light bleeds

sooo

[dense plover]

i believe that is only in one dungeon actually

but im not sure

[dense plover]

very likely preorders

numbers make sense

its probably being announced at gamescom

11.2 story will be 'finished' by then

[deep pawn]

Yeah, I'm really curious about one of the mounts being a Raptor.

[dense plover]

so we will know what the raid outcome is

[deep pawn]

I don't want Amani as an allied race

[dense plover]

why would it be a raptor? where are you getting that from?

[deep pawn]

MAYBE I'll accept Troll and Void Elf paladins being preorder bonuses

[deep pawn]

one of the mounts has a very specific height that's only been connected to raptors and similar skeletons

[dense plover]

its gonna be a sunstrider

[deep pawn]

so Raptors, Falcosaurs

Eh, Sunstriders have a different height

[dense plover]

not if its a new skeleton

[deep pawn]

sure could be something off the raptor base

[dense plover]

also they have screwed up mount height before

look at half of the airship mounts that have fucked up cameras

[deep pawn]

But the Amani are right there

[dense plover]

havent the amani been nearly wiped out?

[deep pawn]

not fully

they had a pretty active spot in Dazar'alor

we kept killing their prophets for fun

[dense plover]

also i thought most of the amani were in the far south now

like stranglethorn

[deep pawn]

no?

They never left Zul'aman

and Zul'aman was recently visited by the void

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deep pawn]

Plus there's that French and German Youtube short featuring a "high elf" and an "amani troll" talking about ending their feuds

[dense plover]

going with amani trolls would be odd - theyre very anti-horde

[deep pawn]

They join the Alliance 😄 /s

[dense plover]

also we now have 2 trolls races - do we really need a third?

[deep pawn]

We have 3 dwarves

And dwarves and trolls are typical "mirrors"

[deep pawn]

This is the post from Hitei that lays out their theory.

and these mounts also have light blood

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hXKZcr5xg

This is the short I'm referring too, but it's just very odd having a blue darkspear troll as a stand in for the Amani

They only released it in French and German for some reason

[rain cave]

void raptor

alternatively, harranir racial mount?

maybe it's not a preorder bonus

[lavish raptor]

i think technically the amani are aligned under the zandalari

[deep pawn]

barely

Zandalari treat them as pets mostly

[deep pawn]

nah, looks like it's some sort of light raptor/construct

Could just be Darkspear and Void Elf Paladins lol.

[lavish raptor]

hence "technically"

[deep pawn]

a new paladin race for each faction would be a pretty weak preorder bonus though

[pulsar minnow]

Assuming it’s a raptor - it would almost suggest the expansion is gonna have us start on the ground.

While I know WoD gave the raven, and Shadowlands the space worm, BFA and Legion gave ground mounts for their deluxe editions. So why else would it be a raptor? Would be weird to do a ground mount after the Algarian Stormrider set a new bar in quality for deluxe edition mounts

[deep pawn]

not necessarily

there's 3 mounts

and only 1-2 are raptors

possibly.

[novel zodiac]

did you guys saw this?

https://x.com/Trencheiro/status/1951104902953877732

Trench (@Trencheiro)

Just saw a Blizz survey asking about classic characters merging into retail after MoP

X · Aug 1, 2025, 2:17 AM

people will riot if true

[tropic trail]

Wasn’t it a full real orchestra like you mentioned before once we last time had a conversation? 🤔

[dense plover]

it was a mix back then - its actually cheaper now to do a real orchestra in many cases now

[deep pawn]

that was pretty old

[dense plover]

there was an orchestra involved, but the music still used a mix of electronic instruments that were otherwise too expensive

[deep pawn]

Like weeks if not months

[dense plover]

but again, the more important thing was that the silvermoon and associated zone music also relied on TBC themes, so whatever version of the music we get wont have those themes

[deep pawn]

Lament of the Highborne will be used

[tropic trail]

Ah you mean electronic instruments not fake instruments (vst libraries).

[deep pawn]

Most of Eversong Woods was actually Lament of the Highborne

[dense plover]

yes sorry

[dense plover]

yes - i more meant the silvermoon and ghostlands stuff

but also ghostlands is supposed to be healed now

so it cant be the same

silvermoon has also received extensive repairs i think?

[deep pawn]

assuming it's not destroyed by the void

[warm topaz]

what you guys think it's coming today?

[crude sigil]

Nothing. Wait few weeks to know 11.2.5

[warm topaz]

there's something today

art is not official but there's something

[ember blaze]

i got that survey yesterday

[ember blaze]

dimensius eating karesh audio?

[warm topaz]

or cinematic!

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1043942935756021852/1043955010251272252/16BitsHero_Animated_Emote_Knekro_kneCOPIUM_112px_6sec_60fps.gif

[pulsar minnow]

Dimensius Mukbang!

[warm topaz]

the thing is they hyped august 1st much more than the second audio, so maybe today it's something else?

[pulsar minnow]

It’s probably a cinematic, we’d usually get one around this time. Fingers crossed it’s a flashback to the devouring war

[warm topaz]

we had much more cinematics back in DF

even for mid season patchs right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0URBe0JWIk&t=60s

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah we had one for basically every patch

[warm topaz]

this one was for 11.1.7 for example

[pulsar minnow]

Forbidden reach had one too, as did Dawn of the Infinite

Hopefully we get more in midnight if we’re going by the logic that TWW is the way it is because it had been gutted

[warm topaz]

yeah i was thinking about this as well

maybe 11.2 is the real start of the WSS lol

[pulsar minnow]

Tbh that’s kind of what it’s felt like

I mean even at blizzcon it seemed the crowd and Metzen himself were waaaay more interested in announcing Midnight and TLT over TWW

TWW imo was definitely really hurt by the Anniversary event and Undermine. Two big patches were essentially giant side adventures. Plenty of good content but just had very little to do with Xal’Atath and this story they’re trying to tell

[crude sigil]

It's about audio series on YouTube. Not about beta

[warm topaz]

yeah i know

i wasn't refering to beta at all

[harsh mason]

Yes, but I think there are 2 reasons: 1) The DF story was more linear, and the cinematics were mostly for Fyrakk, as it was a completely new main antagonist for just 1 Expansion. 2) I'm sure that the wave of layoffs also affected the department responsible for cinematics.

Well, except for 10.0.5, but there was no story there

For example, I haven't seen or heard anything about Terran Gregory for a long time.

[elfin eagle]

i wonder if it has something to do with the 3 expansions being worked on simultaenously

[lavish raptor]

K(alimdor) Pop Demon Hunters

[ember blaze]

so wheres the thingy being revealed

i take it from the silence it wasnt anything worth paying attention to

[lavish raptor]

Check the wow-secrets discord

They're decoding shit

[ember blaze]

ill wait for the wowhead post

[warm topaz]

it's fun to be on the voice channel when smart people theorycraft

[harsh mason]

They don't work on 3 exp at the same time, but basically everything is the same as before. They said that the only change is that now when one team finishes working on one exp, they start working on another.

For example, the work of artists and the work on movie scripts always ends much earlier than when we see it in the game.

I just want to remind you that CGI trailers are usually ready about half a year before players see them, if not earlier.

[deep pawn]

Yeah the secrets discord is solving various cipher puzzles

Honestly pretty fun ones it looks like though people have devolved to random guesses

[warm topaz]

yeah lol

would be cool if the 3rd audio it's something "big"

[deep pawn]

they're buffing hp of delves and outdoor content

buffed m+ dungeons further

[warm topaz]

is that beacuse the cloak?

[dense plover]

probably

especially with tanks getting a big absorb and dps getting a big damage burst

the nerf to damage done is interesting though

im gonna guess they just saw it was overtuned

[warm topaz]

i kinda miss AP, if they end up doing Legion in classic, i wonder what can they do with that

if they can iterate on it and make a better version of it

also with Legion Remix

[deep pawn]

they originally said it was easier before so who knows haha

[dense plover]

i hope they use the artifacts in place of the cloak

they can even bring back the broken af abilities since it doesnt matter

would also be neat to see legiondaries working again while in the event

would add to the broken-ness, though with the way gear worked during MoP remix, thats probably unlikely

[warm topaz]

i hope so too yeah, i think that's a likely scenario

[dense plover]

its unclear how much effort they want to put into this ¯_(ツ)_/¯

people are expecting a lot more than is likely, such as en evoker weapon and orderhall and campaign, and while i think this is a golden opportunity for that, i dont see that happening

they MIGHT re-use the legendary from dragonflight or at least its model, which imo WOULD be a good idea though

[warm topaz]

why should evokers have a orderhall/campaign/artifact?

they weren't there back then

[dense plover]

i agree

but also - the legion storyline relies pretty heavily on those things

so either evokers wont be able to particpate (lame) or theyll have to come up with some kind of solution (unknown)

i assume theyll figure out something generic to also use for chromie time for any classes added in the future

[uncut vault]

I think more importantly for remix, Legion mechanics also rely a lot on order halls for achievements and the like

[deep pawn]

The whole Light's Hope questline

[elfin eagle]

So what was this about?

[rain cave]

I'm assuming they'll lean into the bronze/infinite dragon stuff, and make a little hub area for them as their order hall.
artifact wise I assume there will be something to stand in for them

[warm topaz]

a secret that is being solved rn to release the 3rd audio

[thin warren]

wasn't there supposed to be happening something?

[deep pawn]

it's happening

they are stuck on clue 2

[thin warren]

ah ok

exciting times!

[little hound]

Is this a collab with blizz or something, or just entirely fanmade ?

[deep pawn]

collab

just like the first two audio logs

[dense plover]

its blizzard giving them something to share and permission to hide it behind puzzles that i assume they made and then got permission from blizzard to use after making sure they were appropriate

[little hound]

Aha.

[dense plover]

https://youtu.be/oBdsiFNkmjQ

[lavish raptor]

i havent done any of the new zone from ptr but this is what ive gathered from the spoilers from this patch

[novel zodiac]

so, basically, this.

[deep pawn]

I'm so glad he dies.

100s of thousands of years of life and you fail this hard?

[novel zodiac]

dude wanted to be Aszhara so hard but he failed

[deep pawn]

and he spent the whole time thinking he was special

In a year we'll probably have posts and videos by people saying Locus Walker was wasted by making him a chump

[little hound]

Locus Walked wanted: Greatness.
Locus Walker became: A Knockoff Meme.

[lavish raptor]

ok i drew this

[pulsar minnow]

Idk where this Locus Walker hate train came from but in the end he won

He kept his people alive

[deep pawn]

Alive without true souls anymore. So... Debatable

[ember blaze]

true souls?

[deep pawn]

They go to the twisting nether when they die like demons

[ember blaze]

this is from the secret thing they were doing?

[lone mantle]

Yes.

[pulsar minnow]

This is your speculation

We really don’t know how it works lol

And even then if we’re going to assume they don’t go to the shadowlands after their transformation….

That would mean either the Ethereals get consumed by Dimensius and go to oblivion, or they get their “second life” as Ethereals instead of a Kyrian or Venthyr etc…

Also- Dimensius did quite literally consume the twin suns of K’aresh during the devouring war. K’aresh was doomed either way.

[dense plover]

potential leak of the editions from a datamining discord

no raptor mentioned

[tropic trail]

Wasn’t that twin suns on bastion skybox? Maybe eating K’aresh created shadowlands? Or it was too early lol 😂

[ember blaze]

2k tendies 🙊

[deep pawn]

No? We were told before when they die their energies just disperse into the Twisting Nether

Part of what the manaforge is doing is weaving new wraps to reform Shadowguards

That could line up with 11 spells. The height was just a guess because all the rest of the data was encrypted

[deep pawn]

That discord shouldn't be breaking encryptions

If it's Dragonhawks that means they'll be a new model or at least a new saddle

[lavish raptor]

wtf wheres my lightforged netherdrake

also $90 for epic edition of an expac that only lasts a yr

[deep pawn]

Same price as TWW at least

Some swore the price would go up

I'm surprised at no hearthstone

[dense plover]

2 years

i think?

or year and a half?

[lavish raptor]

TWW released last august iirc

[clear apex]

Less than 2 years

[dense plover]

i mean, TWW came out in august right? we arent getting this next expac until winter at the earliest

so 1.3 years?

i kinda like the faster pace

[clear apex]

I'm gonna say spring

[dense plover]

also very possible

[clear apex]

They said they wanted the end of world soul before 2030

[pulsar minnow]

Probably like late January early February for Midnight

[deep pawn]

Based on cadence and next year's Blizzcon, prepatch is in January and the latest s1 starts is March

[clear apex]

So could be late winter

[deep pawn]

11.2.7 could be as early as the last week of November

[clear apex]

Legion remix could be ...nov-feb

I think panda remix was 3 months?

[deep pawn]

I think remix is more likely Dec-Feb

[clear apex]

I mean end of Nov* at the earliest not the start

[deep pawn]

An exact 8 week cadence puts 11.2.7 same week as Thanksgiving

They could patch it that week

[deep pawn]

I love this

I'm still half joking about Nekomimi humanoids

[clear apex]

I certainly wouldn't complain

[upper pasture]

Cat race? Sign me up, I’d have to switch from Evoker tho :/

[deep pawn]

It's just me saying if Blizzard wants their bonuses to go with housing, just straight up release Miqo'te in WoW

[clear apex]

I still advocate for the option to have cat heads to appease a wider audience, and they must have tails

[deep pawn]

Miqo'te have tails

[novel zodiac]

idk, after the mess of the dracthyr, i dont trust blizar with another humanoid race, make them like the cats from Monster Hunter

[deep pawn]

they can just make them elves with cat ears and a tail

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/bees-knees-miqote-ffxiv-ff14-final-fantasy-gif-22688199

[deep pawn]

exactly

That could fund 20 years of WoW

[ember blaze]

would unironically be instant hit

[deep pawn]

it would be even if it'd make so many "testosterone" guys so mad.

[tropic trail]

I would like it haha

Cat woman with 7 lives

[little hound]

I think i’d prefer a race connected with the lore we currently have, not some weeb’s dream jorking material.

Ethereals. New elven tribe / race.

[deep pawn]

But these would be Ethereals sorta lol

[little hound]

Ew. Dont compare catpeople to ethereals 😂

[tropic trail]

Ethereals too

[little hound]

Praying hard that Blizz never lets WoW get so many degenerate neko/cat stuff like ff14

[deep pawn]

it's mostly a joke, but after Vulpera who knows. 😄

Even if Vulpera are vicious and will kill someone fast

[little hound]

[tropic trail]

If we got vulpino then we can have cat 🐈

[little hound]

Nuh

[rain cave]

light ethereals would be funny though

tbf it would be cool to see more cosmology style customisations for more races. Like void elves, lightforged, nightborne, etc

seeing how magic influences a mortal race is cool to me

we know that fel magic makes demon hunters, man'ari, and orcs like that, but why have we never seen a human warlock with cracked sullen skin or something?

[little hound]

Ethereals are energy though, the ones "Related" to Void is the ones being forcefully infused with it. One of the quests in K'aresh shows that Ethereals wrapped with void are being done so forcefully, and also forced to serve Dimensius/Salhadaar.

The most natural state of the Ethereals is their normal Arcanic/Energy form, contained in their wrappings.

[tropic trail]

We have Lortraxion, Calia, you know.

Any energy can be infused with anyone.

Even old gods entities like chtun, yogg, etc are void beings infused eith life.

This can explain their cancerous-like nature of spreading, growing masses of flesh and swarms of endlessly multiplying bugs.

[little hound]

Infused with Life? What? They are literally parasites shit out by the Void Lord to infect planets. They aren't infused with anything, they are a void disease, born and created to corrupt world souls and planets.

[tropic trail]

Can be retconned easily. It is implied with new lore in TWW that OG were somehow influenced by World Soul, just like earthen.

[little hound]

Can you show me where that is said? I've seen where it said that many Earthen crystalized into Thraegar, like Magni, and fought to defend the World Soul, but nothing about the Old Gods.

[deep pawn]

It's probably speculation from people believing the old gods abandoned their initial mission and helped create mortal life by accident lol

[little hound]

Yeeeah, I don't buy that Old Gods can be infused with life. Their very nature as Void Aberrations wouldn't make that possible, element wise. THey'd simply consume it.

[rain cave]

yeah, and energy can take any form. Void, Arcane, Fel, Light

[rain cave]

I'd argue that actually the old gods are abominations made using information the void learned during their invasion of the shadowlands.

maldraxxus itself is functionally like a giant old god body. And the issue with the void entities having "souls" but not mortal forms to attach them to is solved by the old gods and explains why they are so different. Not to mention that it was the old gods influence that literally causes half the playable races to go to the shadowlands

the curse of flesh, the thing that makes titanforged races MORTAL, and therefore part of the shadowlands cycle. is an old god invention

Yogg calls himself a god of death, and both him and nzoth demonstrated their ability to mess with the emerald dream, a life realm that mirrors the shadowlands

[little hound]

There is no clarification on how the Old Gods were made, except being described as Void Parasited, dispatched by the Void Lords to corrupt planets / World Souls. I'm staying on facts, not "IF" or Theorycrafting

[rain cave]

well this whole conversation is about theorycrafting/speculation

I do disagree that old gods are infused with life though.

I was just initially saying that just because ethereals are primarily arcane/voidy, doesn't mean that it's impossible for them to also be other things. Even though we don't see that in game

the lore as it has been presented does not explicitly state that ethereals HAVE to be arcane/void. Even if I doubt we'll see more than those two.

[pulsar minnow]

I think they’re mixing up how Azeroth causes creatures to gain free will with them being influenced by other comsologies

Because we have the Thraegar which are earthen infused by Azeroth who abandoned the edicts, the newly revived playable earthen who also abandoned the edicts to pursue their own thing.

Old Gods did abandon their mission of trying to prep the world soul for consumption and instead built the black empire for themselves, which points towards azeroth’s “free will” powers influencing them

[austere gazelle]

Add to that Nzoth trying to do whatever stuff beneath that make Xal go into " oh no you won't " mode

I'm even wondering if Xal wasnt corrupted by Azeroth too in her own way...

[austere gazelle]

I'm not sure Old God are " infused " by anything . They are mutating horror. They could have landed or been summoned on azeroth and then grew on a random root and corrupted it to turn into this horror flesh stuff. They corrupt whatever they touch and grew upon it

Azeroth could be a titan of Balance, free will and dream. I mean thinking about it when you began to dream by your own and are sent vision, you may start to develop your own path and end up forming your own will and lose any shackle from any forces that ruled over you before

[warm topaz]

excited to see the cinematic after we defeat Dimensius

hope there's one

i feel like that one and the Midnight cinematic are going to be connected

what we know is that Xal stay in the dark heart so we can escape right?

[upper pasture]

I think that’s what she wants us to believe or that’s what blizzard is leading us to believe to hide a twist at the end of the encounter

[deep pawn]

she stays in the heart it looks like, then comes back, snipes Locus Walker and leaves to become the new All-Devouring

[glass flicker]

And then King Ymiron shows up and goes "Curse you! Curse your mother!"
A lot of bleeps later.
Xal'atath is sobbing uncontrollably and Ymiron is still at it.

Azeroth is saved.

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4YsWx9ESRFxPyeNOk8STwVKEGriKX-9O?si=S-qYWQCKNpHYldHz

[rain cave]

As far as we know, the old gods were basically thrown into azeroth. But my point is that their flesh needed do come from somewhere, pure void isn't fleshy. Explicitly the opposite in fact. But the old gods connection to death and mortality is there for sure

[glass flicker]

Well, flesh can be created from other materials, as happened with the Vrykul, Iron Dwarves, Mechagnomes, Tol'vir, Mogu, and I could continue.

It stands to reason that Old Gods could just be made from the raw minerals of planets the Void Lords have corrupted.

[deep pawn]

We don't fully understand the curse of flesh.

Or why the old gods essentially created their own downfall

There's some bootstrap paradoxes going on cause N'zoth know the curse of flesh has to happen for him to get the knowledge of the future he got from our minds

[austere gazelle]

I'm wondering how they'll pull midnight off. I dont think they'll restric the expac to the Quel Thalas area.
When looking at northrend, we have more than five zone spanning a whole continent and its supposed to be where the Last Titan will happen
They don't have to remake a whole continent or zone from scratch, just update them.

My main guess, the expansion will be everything north of Thandol span ( including Arathi Highlands and eastern plagueland ( paladin order hall ) for obvious reasons

Maybe its the time to showcase newly healed plagueland into New Lordaeron and Lordaeron capital rebuilt

[glass flicker]

I've been saying this for a while. I imagine they'll update zones and make them larger. For instance, Ghostlands and Eversong can be turned into one zone, let's call it Quel'Thalas, Western and Eastern Plaguelands into New Lordaeron, and then they can update Tirisfal Glades, Hillsbrad Foothills, and even throw in Silverpine for good measure.

Five zones.

Quel'danas as the endgame area, done.

Alternatively, keep Ghostlands and Eversong separate, make Zul'Aman a zone, and make Quel'danas a leveling zone. That's four, like TWW has.

[clear apex]

It would be cool to see the plaguelands updated and cleaning out lordaeron.

Maybe the arathi area being involved

[glass flicker]

I would dig Arathi-fied Stratholme.

They already have a faith based around Light and Fire. Stratholme is on fire.

I'd say there's potential.

[clear apex]

A total overhaul of the north of eastern kingdoms would be pretty amazing

[glass flicker]

It'd be too much for a single expansion, as leveling areas. If it's not patch content, I don't see it.

We only have ten levels to squeeze all these areas' questlines in.

Now, if quests just gave us so little exp as to need ten areas, as in, one level per zone? Yeah, I see it. But would Blizzard risk the backlash? "I started the expansion and I'm not level cap in 10 minutes WTF BLIZZ?"

[deep pawn]

We know there'll be 4 zones

[glass flicker]

Then it's very likely it's Eversong, Ghostlands, Zul'Aman and Quel'danas.

[thin warren]

we are sure they are recycling old zones?

[rain cave]

all of those are races that became mortal through the curse of flesh. Which is my entire point.

they became mortal, who's souls go to the shadowlands and become part of the great cycle, through old god magic.

I think it makes perfect sense that would be why the void invaded the shadowlands. If the void cannot manifest in reality, the shadowlands is probably their best bet at finding a method to do so. And we know that the void DID invade the shadowlands, just not the reason

it's at this point I'd also like to point out the black blades extreme similarities to a mourneblade as well

[glass flicker]

I think they did it just because they're greedy and want power. Could you imagine Void-corrupted Eternal Ones?

A voidy Denathrius?

Hell, a Shadow Arbiter who sends all the dead souls to the Void?

You have the right to remain horrified.

[rain cave]

well yeah, but the void's power is quite diminished if they can't enter reality to get things they want. Particularly worldsouls, which they do want

and if they have no way of entering reality to get the things they want, then that means they need to find a method to do so. It's not mutually exclusive, your idea of the voids goals is just what my idea is the method to do

[glass flicker]

We can't know until Blizzard confirms it, but my working theory is that the Void just wants to consume everything in every inch of space it can occupy. You know, like a black hole.

[rain cave]

and does it not just make completel logical sense? Yogg Saron the self proclaimed "god of death", sarronite being used as part of ice crown. The old gods distinct differences to the rest of the void and similarities to things like maldraxxus. The black blade being similar to a mourneblade (maybe that was a prototype for a vessel to get them into reality?) etc

[rain cave]

the void has many factions but yes. Largely I can agree they want to consume things. But that is why I'm saying this.

if you want to consume space/reality. You first need to get there. The old gods are one of their methods to do so.

[acoustic kraken]

mb the same way normal mass would evenly distribute into the vacuum of space the void would do the same to our reality except outside forces resist

[rain cave]

But because the old gods are not pure void, because they wouldn't be able to manifest in reality naturally otherwise. They must be something else as well as void, even if it's just a little bit. And out of the other cosmic forces, I believe death fits the best.
-Death fits their powers and aesthetic (see curse of flesh, maldraxxus respectively)
-The pure void invaded the shadowlands for some purpose
-The black blade is similar to a mourneblade
-Sarronite being a good material for the undead scourge to use in WotLK

you could even argue that some of the specific traits of the old gods are similar to different elements of the shadowlands.
Y'shaarj is focused on negative emotions. Wrath, Rage, Envy, etc. JUST like Revendreth
Yogg saron was focused on raw power. And has the most "fleshy" aesthetic of all the old gods. JUST like Maldraxxus
N'zoth's focus on the emerald nightmare and ascension/rebirth you could argue connects him to being similar to Ardenweald. But he also corrupts through personal whispers, their own doubts and thoughts, much like how a kyrian would fail their tests.

[glass flicker]

And C'thun could be connected to Bastion, in the way that he looks into your memories and inflicts you with brain damage.

"Your heart will explode."

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I really doubt they’re gonna cover that much ground

The expansion is being set in Quel Thalas, which is the region that encompasses Eversong Woods and Ghostlands

[deep pawn]

There's been the constant Northeron rumors

[pulsar minnow]

If anything they’re going to expand on the area surrounding it like Zul Aman and yeah northeron maybe

[deep pawn]

Which would be a chunk of snowy mountainous lands that shifted north during the cataclysm

[pulsar minnow]

We already know they’re adding old scrapped locations that were originally planned in tbc back into the zones such as the Sunforges

[rain cave]

I have a question for you all out of curiosity. WOuld you prefer the current area of quel'thalas (Zul'aman, ghostlands, silvermoon, isle of quel'danas) be expanded? So the same spaces basically get retconned in game to be much bigger. OR would you prefer they keep things roughly the same as they are now, but the expansion comes from new areas?

or a merge of the two, if so what kind of balance

[pulsar minnow]

The former tbh. The Old World in WoW is so incredibly small and feels dated compared to the scale captured in recent expansions. Especially DF

A Quel Thalas Revamp feels like the beginning of an overall world revamp

[rain cave]

I'd say I agree. with one exception being adding a new area for the trolls. But even that feels more like an expansion of what's currently there.

the two areas I think they should add instead of expand is the undead and trolls. I feel the undead in particular would be a very cool faction to have as a renown and tie into the story.