beta-ptr-spoilers

[sullen dawn]

There'll be a mix

We shouldn't dictate neigjboruhood culture

Like I plan to run a orc worker/POW camp

[glass flicker]

If I were to take something from Souls games and put it into WoW, it'd be the music for boss fights, and summoning people even while solo.

I hate needing two people to summon for a dungeon or raid.

[sullen dawn]

Hopefully this kind of stuff comes witj the world tier system

[glass flicker]

Often, people are still just chilling in Dornogal.

(Mfw I put on the Blight Boar theme during the Sylvanas boss fight 'cause it's literally just Lament of the Highborne, death metal version.)

Makes the fight thrice as engaging.

I counted.

[austere gazelle]

Mmm so we not only fight Dimensius, but two other void lords during his fight 😮

[glass flicker]

What?

[austere gazelle]

Artoshion and Pargoth, " the Devoured Lords " that dimensius releases to halt us during the fight

[glass flicker]

Oof.

[glass flicker]

They're kinda BS'ing the power level of the players, here.

[sullen dawn]

I just wanna fight orcs 😭

[austere gazelle]

Well the fight is a mess on paper, this is a real cosmic level, with black hole, antimatter, gravity, nebula, collapsing stars and stuff

[glass flicker]

Same.

[austere gazelle]

We're even thrown remnant of worlds shattered by Dimensius in our face apparently

[glass flicker]

I'd like to see how a gnome with a stick handles all that.

[austere gazelle]

Oh and at some point we're sucked into the Dark Heart and we have to fly out with Xal guiding us

[glass flicker]

Interesting. So she ain't a bad guy, after all.

[austere gazelle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407589699180429323/1385344067893858385/image.png?ex=6855b9b4&is=68546834&hm=a099367deff2283a1a6c6bf1c60e3a38806bb492c972db793e5c28713c6f114c&

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/wreck-it-ralph-zangief-bad-guy-bad-mean-gif-4526339

[austere gazelle]

We're fighting against black holes lol

What can be worse after that ?

[glass flicker]

Nothing.

[austere gazelle]

Old God devouring a planet with their tentacles? bah ! trivial stuff

[glass flicker]

Black holes are the ultimate force in the universe, and this is irrefutable.

There is absolutely nothing stronger than gravity, save Azathoth 'cause he's literally just dreaming it exists.

When you're trying to bring realistic gravity into fiction, things REALLY get wacky.

[sullen dawn]

Vulpera

The worst disease Azeroth has ever faced

[glass flicker]

Second worst disease Azeroth has ever faced.

[austere gazelle]

First one being the Elven chick of Goldshire?

[glass flicker]

The worst one would be wanna-be leets who leave +7 mythic dungeons because of a single wipe on the trash pull the tank got overconfident on.

[austere gazelle]

Oh it wont be a thing if they refine their deserter MM+ debuff

[glass flicker]

There is nothing more jarring than wasting half an hour on a dungeon for Mr. Dipstick McGee to leave at the end, leaving the rest of the party to finish by themselves or give up.

[austere gazelle]

Now the serial leavers will be flagged as such in the LFG queue

Nobody will pick them anymore

they'll have to do a low level M+ to clean their reputation

[glass flicker]

You know, it's funny.

Somehow, having a low M+ rating gets you invited more than having 2500+.

[austere gazelle]

I understand why.

" YOU PULLED THE WRONG PACK ! KEY IS BRICKED , CIAO "

[glass flicker]

I don't have a high score. It's like 700 on my main, I've only done a few for the cartel chips thingies.

[pulsar minnow]

If Dimensius’ fight ends up going this crazy, I’m so excited for Aman thul. I hope we’re like flying through a rewinding/crumbling time stream in his fight.

[glass flicker]

Still getting invited back. xD

[glass flicker]

Now, if the instigator is also a Vulpera Warlock, it's the worst possible player.

Actually the worst example of humanity you can find on WoW.

[pulsar minnow]

Or a blood elf paladin (sincerely, a blood elf paladin)

[sullen dawn]

For sure

Probably theoguh the time ways in DF

*from DF

[glass flicker]

Nah, belf paladins are tame in comparison.

Warlocks, rogues, hunters, and shamans usually tear groups apart.

[sullen dawn]

Dhs

Are the worst

Monks are always chill

[glass flicker]

Some are. They're not all horrible.

[sullen dawn]

We cant all fly bro!

Lol

[pulsar minnow]

Also gonna sound corny but listen to Precipice by Aaron Cherof I swear that song matches what I imagine the Aman’thul fight music to be (specifically the drop)

[pulsar minnow]

Idk I’ve had so many bad experiences with an undergeared belf tank pulling everything, wiping, then leaving

[glass flicker]

"The healer didn't heal me!"

You know the belf paladin player is lame when their transmog is just the heritage set with a random mismatched shield.

[pulsar minnow]

Accurate as hell lmao

[austere gazelle]

There are several retcon though.

Brokers are not from shadowlands while they claim to be born there in shadowlands ( lol )
Ve'nari doesnt have a new body like she claimed she had built a new one at the end of shadowlands , leaving with Xolathrios or whatever his name was...
Xalatath being called " the Harbinger " by the same NPC who now calls her " the former harbinger " on K'aresh... information that he had from the start since he tells us he knew.
Xal dispising the Void Lords while saying when in the dagger that she couldnt wait for her Masters to shows up on Azeroth 🤔

[glass flicker]

If your parents were from Italy and you were born in Norway, would you be born in Norway or not?

I think that's the line of logic they're going with the Brokers.

They're from K'aresh as a people, but spent a while in the Shadowlands and developed a new culture.

[sullen dawn]

Tbf the heritage slaps

Better than some clown mog haha

[sullen dawn]

Especially given the timeframes

Deep time almost applies lol

[ember blaze]

isnt that what the cloak is for?

[glass flicker]

Maybe?

[upper pasture]

i mean there is a point where it says Xal empowers our cloaks too so

[glass flicker]

Still, how're they gonna go about explaining us losing the cloak? "Oh it's depleted now" has already gotten old.

Can't tell me a random elf can give you a better cloak in Midnight. "Here, have my grandma's old tablecloth!"

The powercreep is real.

[upper pasture]

someone already mentioned it could be what Xal uses against us after the battle and trapping us

lines up with us "losing"

[glass flicker]

That could be it, but why would she do that, knowing we'll be coming after her with twice the angst after we're freed?

Unless she doesn't plan for us to be freed.

[upper pasture]

we "win" she traps us gains the power of a void lord and thinks she's all powerful then in midnight we regain our powers/find a new one and kill her.

[glass flicker]

(Seriously Blizzard, give us an expansion where we're the evil guys, under mind control.)

[upper pasture]

that sounds boring af

[glass flicker]

Nothing can stand the steamroller of fatness that is the Champions of Azeroth. Show us the repercussions of that.

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-tank-paladin-dps-onyxia-gif-23561688

[glass flicker]

It'd certainly be fun to kill some of the good guys ourselves, for a change.

[upper pasture]

woulld it?

[glass flicker]

It would.

[upper pasture]

seems sus

why do you want to kill the good guys?

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/chips-gif-25800540

[glass flicker]

Because that would really screw Azeroth over.

[upper pasture]

and as Azeroth is our home, why would you want that?

[deep pawn]

Sadly voice lines indicate we get out haha

[glass flicker]

Because, oh, I don't know. We've already won every single encounter against everyone in the story so far, with minor setbacks. So, strike when the people are still licking their wounds. Go for the Alliance's throat when it's at their weakest by sending mind-controlled Champions of Azeroth to kill an important character. Like Genn.

[deep pawn]

Voice lines suggest Xal stays inside the dark heart after it collapses

But she tells Alleria she always survives

[glass flicker]

Remember when Nathanos Blightcaller was a world boss at the end of BfA?

Yeah, that.

[upper pasture]

Nathanos isn't a "good guy" at that point

[glass flicker]

You're missing the context. We'd be the bad guys.

[deep pawn]

At this point I think Locus Walker is gonna drop the dark heart into the Sunwell to free super Xal

Locus Walker is absolutely gonna owe her some sort of promise

[upper pasture]

you're missing the point, it wouldn't make any sense for our characters to want that

[glass flicker]

'Cause they wouldn't. I keep repeating "mind control mind control."

Is it just going over your head?

[sullen dawn]

I wanna be evil in wow without mind control

[upper pasture]

mind control for an expansion or a patch is a boring troupe

[sullen dawn]

Let me join tbe red dawn please

[glass flicker]

Well, why is it boring?

[sullen dawn]

Every character has a different rp background

[upper pasture]

you're not in control of your own character? ZZZzzzz

[glass flicker]

It's not like the Champions of Azeroth are literally gods. We haven't "lost" a fight, ever.

[upper pasture]

we ARE LITERALLY about too.

[sullen dawn]

My paladin was a lieutenant under Garithos

And is a loyalist

[glass flicker]

Do we? Dimensius's "death" animation has literally been leaked.

[upper pasture]

we "win" the fight but something happens that is definitely setting us back

[sullen dawn]

Xal will become a void lord for sure

[glass flicker]

What's Xal'atath gonna do? An arrow from Alleria cracked the Dark Heart. I'm sure growing her into a volcano would do just as much damage.

[hard axle]

anyone know to fix the bug where you can't set up the crystals in Distilled Darkness?

[sullen dawn]

You cant

[harsh wedge]

Technically, we lost fights (even though we killed the boss). Example is voti where even though we killed razsageth, she still managed to release the other incarnates, we let n'zoth out in eternal palace (did not even kill azshara)

[sullen dawn]

Its server side

They aren't resetting after other people click them

[hard axle]

got it, thank you

[sullen dawn]

Hopefully blizz fix soon

[ember blaze]

theres also those fights where we get killed

tho i get we get revived

[glass flicker]

The Raszageth example is possibly the best one. But we also came out on top of those bosses.

[upper pasture]

over time yes

[harsh wedge]

Over time we came out, but we still "lost" the purpose of the fight

[upper pasture]

because that is the nature of games, we ultimately win

[sullen dawn]

Here is a preview of some of my player house

[glass flicker]

We just never lose. So, turn us against those who want to protect the world and see how they do against us. Set up some real stakes against friends who'd rather save us and those who think us too powerful to risk saving and would rather have us dead.

[upper pasture]

why would anyone play a game where you lose every time you play and never get back anything over and over?

[glass flicker]

Mind control can ge a powerful narrative tool, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

[ember blaze]

idk thats a hard sell for an mmorpg

[sullen dawn]

They never said "every time"

Its ok to suffer setbacks/losses

In fact its compelling story

[mighty wolf]

its would be cool if in some exp-on we'll lose completely

[harsh wedge]

But how would you implement a mind control for your idea in the game? Genuine question, I don't see any way how it could work to be honest

[upper pasture]

yes that's great, we've already explained we DO have losses and set backs in game already

[glass flicker]

Remember questing as a DK in the starting zone?

[sullen dawn]

They barely feel like such

[glass flicker]

It's that easy.

[sullen dawn]

Oh no xal ran away

[glass flicker]

You were a had guy then.

[sullen dawn]

Oh no dalaran who cares

We need a big loas

[upper pasture]

mind control is a boring and lazy tool

[glass flicker]

:/

[sullen dawn]

Like when darnassus got destroyed

[upper pasture]

sorry it is

[sullen dawn]

Epic moment

[glass flicker]

You just haven't seen the potential it can have, methinks.

[upper pasture]

doubt

[sullen dawn]

I dont need mind control to rp an evil character tbh

[harsh wedge]

We did for a very short time, indeed, but the character started as that (as in, a baddie), which did not create any problem and the flow was good.

Now imagine, you are playing your character for years, helped the alliance/horde through countless things, and suddenly your character is a mind controlled guy and you go against them because... you have to, you are mind controlled. Imagine riots if blizzard told people "ok, you have to kill anduin. He did not do anything wrong or something, you are just mind controlled. Also, whole expansion you are mind controlled and try to kill everyone you've helped for years."

[ember blaze]

for the player character not really

[glass flicker]

Yeah. What's the issue? It sets up a redemption arc where you go around helping them again and regaining trust. Or, maybe it even gives your character some PTSD and an actual personality.

Seriously, the Champion of Azeroth could just as well be a piece of cardboard with the power to end the universe.

[deep pawn]

WoW characters aren't allowed to have a personality

[glass flicker]

That's effectively what they are.

[upper pasture]

so you just want anduins arc for everyone?

[harsh wedge]

It could work as a short thing, such as a prepatch event (think bfa escape from stormwind, etc) where you are indeed mind controlled and do something bad. But not as something that is for a whole expansion.

[deep pawn]

WoW's ethos is your PC is whatever you want so it doesn't apply anything beyond most basic heroism.

[ember blaze]

this is cool for a single player rpg where you play other characters, but i dont see how it would work in WoW

[glass flicker]

No. I want Anduin's arc, but more about being a proactive force in the world, rather than "oh I messed up 'cause violence kinda slaps."

[harsh wedge]

Do you have an example of a game where it has happened? Where you were "friends" with npcs for years, helped them, and then suddenly the game (or even a sequel) has you attack them and kill them - still playing the same character, which has the same convictions (since they are mind controlled, it's not your fault)?

[glass flicker]

Well, BG3, if you count becoming a Mindflayer as that.

[harsh wedge]

That's a choice of the player

[glass flicker]

And that matters, why?

[harsh wedge]

Because the player chooses or not to become a mindflayer? Your mind control idea does not let the player choose, otherwise it is not a mind control?

[upper pasture]

because you want us to just be "mind controlled" against our will

[harsh wedge]

That makes it two different things

[glass flicker]

Y'all aren't even listening.

[upper pasture]

in BG3 you CHOOSE to become the mind flyer

[harsh wedge]

Being mind controlled is against your will as a player, but in bg3 you choose to become a mindflayer

That's the issue

[upper pasture]

in your MC wet dream, we are FORCED to become the evil guy

[glass flicker]

If BfA could have a story for Horde side, a story for Alliance side, they can do a story for Xal'atath followers, and one for heroes.

[harsh wedge]

That's something more fleshed out than what you were talking about at first to be honest

[ember blaze]

no more story splitting 😡

[upper pasture]

cause that worked out so great for BfA lol

[glass flicker]

I just think it'd be neat to be the bad guy, for once, and see things of consequence happen because of it.

[deep pawn]

I wish I wasn't disappointed in the patch, I might just stop s3 after aotc and ksm

[sullen dawn]

Disagree

Bad take again

[upper pasture]

do you know what happens when you treat people poorly? kill a mayor or a leader?

[sullen dawn]

Us all being the same sucks

[ember blaze]

u had that in bfa

[sullen dawn]

And it was great

BFA story was peak

[glass flicker]

I mean, it wasn't "bad" per se. Just misguided.

[sullen dawn]

At least until nzoth was released

[glass flicker]

Hordies always do this.

[sullen dawn]

War campaigns were really fun

Invading darnassus on my horde characters was amazing

Felt like real warcraft

[deep pawn]

BfA story was alright, but both stories kinda suffered in the name of split writing.

[sullen dawn]

Still better than whay followed (SL, DF, TWW) by a wide wide margin

Right now the stories are written for toddlers

[glass flicker]

I hate Dragonflight's story, especially. The dialogue is just so predictable.

Fyrakk was fun, though.

"You used to fight for something, Fyrakk. Now you just want power."
Laughs "Yes."

Chad Fyrakk.

[upper pasture]

sorry but "wanting to be the bad guy, cause violence is fun" is a pretty childish thing.

[glass flicker]

...I said Anduin did that.

He directly states "what if that satisfaction may have been mine?"

[deep pawn]

I mean if you want gritty realism to live out your fantasies about putting entire races into concentration camps, those games exist. WoW has become more about escaping that stuff with some big visuals while saving the day haha.

[upper pasture]

because he was MC'd and at the time everyone hated that part of the story

[glass flicker]

Just further proof you weren't listening.

So, I'll stop now.

[deep pawn]

The loyalist plot line in BfA was so token and you didn't really do anything different for example.

[sullen dawn]

Its literally called world of warcraft

[glass flicker]

You make a good point here.

[sullen dawn]

And real life is where im a pacifist

I like rping my opposite in some character s

[ember blaze]

not it isnt

[glass flicker]

But, like I said, if BfA could have two different plots, and Legion could have one for every class, why can't you be either a Xal'atath puppet or a hero?

It even sets up better PvP.

[upper pasture]

bro, is there not war in warcraft? just because it's not red guys versus blue guys its not war?

[glass flicker]

Now it isn't Horde vs Alliance, it's heroes versus villains.

[sullen dawn]

I grew up on warcraft and it was like that for a long long time

Which sucks ass

And needa to be fixed

[deep pawn]

decades ago at this point, even vanilla was pretty tame.

[sullen dawn]

Not like df and tww

[deep pawn]

Your complaints literally go back to Vanilla when people were mad at Night Elves in the alliance. I can't imagine holding a grudge for decades like that haha.

[glass flicker]

What I'm trying to say is: write a more complex story, we aren't stupid. Stop making WoW PG5.

[deep pawn]

WoW will never be the RTSs

[deep pawn]

They won't cause every time they write more story the raiders cry.

[sullen dawn]

My complaints gi back to df

[deep pawn]

Every expansion you get people upset that they HAVE to do the MSQ at least once to unlock end game.

[sullen dawn]

Thats it

So dont put words in my mouth

[deep pawn]

The stuff you whine about has been stuff people have been whining about since 2004

[glass flicker]

Respectfully, f*ck the raiders. They're less than 1% of the community.

[ember blaze]

its more than just raiders really

[glass flicker]

(Mythic raiders, I mean.)

[ember blaze]

a lot of people do not care about a long main quest line u are forced to do

and just skip past everything

[glass flicker]

That's not healthy for the game.

[ember blaze]

how so

the main questline is short, but they made the rest optional side quests

[tulip sun]

People dedicated to the lore and story are definitely the minority

[sullen dawn]

People

Not me

[ember blaze]

i like to generally follow the story, and I aint reading all the quest text

[deep pawn]

All this means is you have a different line of what becomes too upbeat than others, but the core of the issue is the same.

[glass flicker]

Like I said, not healthy for the game. Quest text right now is just "so, these boars started eating too many pumpkins, go kill a few."

[tulip sun]

The game isn't gonna survive by catering to us who are so dedicated it. Unfortunately how it is.

[glass flicker]

I'm not saying Classic had better quests, but at least you had an incentive to read them because you didn't have a map with a giant yellow rhombus pointing the right way.

[sullen dawn]

🤡

Measures are a thing

[deep pawn]

I'm sorry Toby, you can't just clown face whenever someone disagrees with your narrow pedantic viewpoints on what everything should be to make you happy. Use your words or pretend I don't exist.

[sullen dawn]

I use clown opinions when you use dogmatic logic

[glass flicker]

I want to like WoW's story, I do, but it just seems like it's lost what made it Warcraft in the first place. Big badass people playing heavy metal and doing badass things.

[sullen dawn]

*emojis

[glass flicker]

I miss you, my dear Broxigar.

[sullen dawn]

Yes

[tulip sun]

Ive been thoroughly enjoying the story the past two expansions.

[glass flicker]

It's been a 7/10 for me.

[sullen dawn]

That doesnt make it less objectively shit

[glass flicker]

I just didn't like Dragonflight for being so predictable.

Also, Kalec.

God, Kalec. Kalec. Nope, they just made him Vin Diesel.

[elfin eagle]

Any screenshots of the raid

[sullen dawn]

The only good storiss in DF were the stuff involving mangos and sindrigosa

[elfin eagle]

Karesh nice zone

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/family-toretto-dominic-gif-23895685

[elfin eagle]

Very depressing

[sullen dawn]

They did Sindrigosa so so well

[upper pasture]

raid testing hasn't started

[glass flicker]

Oh, I liked Sindragosa.

[sullen dawn]

Can access it with model viewer

[deep pawn]

Art team has done fine work, the setting is about as interesting as it can be for a few pieces of rock around a dead planet.

[glass flicker]

Didn't much vibe with her robot voice at the start, but then she completely changed.

[tulip sun]

Well that's not a bad score.

[glass flicker]

If she kept having the robot voice, I would not like her.

[glass flicker]

It's not, but then I rated MoP a 11/10.

It was that good, imo.

MoP had one of the best stories in Warcraft.

Legion was also good. But it didn't live up to my hopes of it 'cause we didn't fight enough demons in the first patch.

[deep pawn]

K'aresh has taken TWW's story for me from a 7/10 to 5/10. Expansion is great overall for adding delves to me and I've enjoyed the raiding, but the story just isn't progressing well in patch content.

[elfin eagle]

I

I think it will be get better now maybe I’m coping

[deep pawn]

I have hope that Midnight will feel more cohesive too

I just am not happy that Khaz Algar got WoD'd.

[glass flicker]

I don't like K'aresh for being so out of theme with the expansion. It's called The War WITHIN.

So, why are we leaving the planet?

[elfin eagle]

Yeah it feels very out of place

[deep pawn]

Because TWW turned into the entire saga.

Which I think is hilarious cause it means K'aresh was never gonna be it's own thing haha

So the finales of Midnight and TLT were supposed to be in TWW but have been delayed.

[little hound]

Meow meow meow?

[tulip sun]

Certainly feels like the Haranir story was pushed to one of the other expansions

[deep pawn]

So is the conclusion of the Earthen story.

[glass flicker]

And Undermine was added to fill a gap of content.

[deep pawn]

Undermine feels like it fits, but it's also barely touching without the Dark Heart macguffin so who knows when they put it into the story.

Perhaps TWW was a 4 raid expansion

[glass flicker]

Yeah, I hope they start moving away from the 3 raid tiers per expansion stuff. No way you're gonna charge $60 for so little content that is also timegated.

[tulip sun]

I mean to be fair im not sure theres a whole lot more to the earthen story. On the other hand, what happened to the Nerubians is open ended but I can see that in TLT too

[deep pawn]

In Blizzard's words, that $60 covers the 4 zones, 8 dungeons, and 1 raid.

[glass flicker]

So, make fewer dungeons.

They're already doing seasonal roulettes with older dungeons.

[warm topaz]

you prefer having the same 8 dungeons for 2 years?

[glass flicker]

It wouldn't be like that 'cause they keep recycling older dungeons.

[deep pawn]

Earthen story ends with them freeing themselves from Titan mandates, they got attacked for it, and Brinthe learned all their memories were purposefully stolen from them to keep them docile.

The fact we won't pick up on that again til TLT sucks.

[glass flicker]

I wonder if we'll meet more Thraegar in TLT.

[warm topaz]

i think Midnight is worth 50$ cos Housing

[sullen dawn]

Speculation

[warm topaz]

i wouldn't be surprised if they raised the price by another 10 euros, honestly.

[deep pawn]

TWW was clearly originally meant for us to clear the coreway fully to go straight down, so no matter how they do TLT, it's gonna feel disjointed cause they won't make you go to 2 expansion old zones.

[tulip sun]

This is all one story so in some part it does make sense it is all connected.

[glass flicker]

Also, speaking of Midnight, I wonder if a patch content will update the Myst Isles. Azuremyst and Bloodmyst are still in the TBC phase.

[tulip sun]

Just going back to an area we are introduced in chapter 1

[glass flicker]

Can't get there without a loading screen.

[deep pawn]

I doubt we will return to Khaz Algar that much

[dreamy dove]

Sooo i’m the only one hyped for k’aresh?🤣🤣
Btw, unpopular opinion, i think undermine almost make nosense
They revolved around Orweyna and the haranir, making her basically the new speaker of azeroth, and then? Nothing lmao
Woul’ve preferred an haranir themed patch with her as a central character rather than gallywix and undermine

[deep pawn]

We'll enter the manifold from Northrend

[glass flicker]

Also, just curious, where is Velen in all this? What is he doing?

He's got the Vindicaar, it can shoot laser beams.

Surely it'd be useful on K'aresh.

[pulsar minnow]

I agree with this tbh

But I understand why it happened this way

[ember blaze]

they wanted to shove in undermine cause they otherwise might have never done it

[pulsar minnow]

As much as I wish we could have Beledar and everything else explained, it’s clear we gotta wait for TLT since that’s the whole point of the saga. Not everything is wrapped up in one expansion

[upper pasture]

Nope, I’m excited to see the ethereals and their homeworld

[pulsar minnow]

Also- we’re most definitely going back to Khaz Algar. Beledar is there and it’s THE designated route to the Worldcore.

AND it’s right next to Silithus where the sword is (and Ungoro where Elun Ahir was planted)

[dreamy dove]

Same feeling here

BUT
They could’ve involved more the haranir anyway
We see orweyna enraged and determined to fight gallywix
But no sign of them
(Yeah, they used the excuse of the “scretive society etc etc”, but they could’ve implemented them if they woul’ve liked to. At least a small group loyal to orweyna)

[upper pasture]

We already saw orweyna lose the small group that was loyal to her that was the whole meeting them quest chain

[deep pawn]

I'm sure Orwenya and Faerin will join us in Midnight but the pacing still feels bad to me.

[tulip sun]

Theyeve stated that Locus walker only brought those he knew and somewhat trusted

Which is essentially only the void elves

And the vindicaar would be the army of the light, not velen

[sullen dawn]

TLT wont bring us bsck to khaz algar. We'll enter the manifold from Northend

But even if we did, making thr world feel more cohesive and less "stay in this expansion" area is a good thing for a mmo

Makes the world feel more real

[glass flicker]

And now, a mog to go with the Blazecycle.

We're Ghost Riderin' up in this bish.

[ember blaze]

still not over the fact that no playable ethereals

[deep pawn]

they said no plans, so that can change

they said they had no plans or nothing to announce for housing for a long time while it was in development

I'd prefer no playable Ethereals myself.

[ember blaze]

for what reason? 💀

[deep pawn]

I don't think they fit Azeroth, especially learning what Locus Walker did to his people lol.

Playable characters so far generally feel like they have vested interests in defending Azeroth as their home.

[ember blaze]

does that include the other races we can play who come from another dimension/planet

[pulsar minnow]

What did locus Walker do

Just curious

[ember blaze]

didnt we recruit some orcs that only care about killing

[deep pawn]

11.2 spoilers. ||Locus Walker used K'aresh's world soul to turn his people into energy and to try and defeat Dimensius. May have worked with Xal to do it.||

[deep pawn]

Mag'har are stuck on Azeroth now and have no other home and live here. Draenei have made Azeroth their home.

Ethereals don't feel like the types to make Azeroth their home.

[pulsar minnow]

Oh neat

Gotta play thru the campaign later

[ember blaze]

so none of those met those requirements i nthe first place

currently they got no home and some might want to stay in a none destroyed planet

[deep pawn]

If they put the story work into Ethereals making Azeroth permanently their home great, but it hasn't happened yet. So far Ethereal's MO is coming to places, "collect" whatever they think they can sell, then leave.

[ember blaze]

and help out a planet not face the same fate

[ember blaze]

we got a cult of 10 void elves as playable

lets just have 10 ethereals who wanna stay 💀

[deep pawn]

I'm hoping the no plans means they've been working hard on Naga.

[pulsar minnow]

Ethereals have also been pretty helpful in the past. They’re in literally every expansion since tbc

[ember blaze]

the fish following a queen who destroyed the world

who also allied with the void

and only cares about following her

[ember blaze]

right 💀

but the void fish who follow a queen who only cares about power fits better in defenders of the planet 🤔

[pulsar minnow]

I want both naga and ethereals tbh

Those two, ogres, and tuskarr is the best timeline imo

But rn I think ethereals would make more sense. It’s probably just hard to figure out how their armor would work

[deep pawn]

My guess for Midnight has always been Azshara betrays her Naga and abandons them

Yes similar plot to Dracthyr but whatever

[ember blaze]

their armor can work just like dracthyr

[deep pawn]

Start with them being ordered to help us at the start of Midnight against Xal and after her betrayal they stay

[ember blaze]

all those models with the unique armor they made for this patch could be barbershop options

[tulip sun]

For midnight im hoping for forest trolls for hord

[deep pawn]

It might be a body type customization cause I don't think we need a whole race for bulky male trolls

And why not let you play bulky jungle or sand trolls too

[ember blaze]

yeah we wasted enough space giving humans a fat body option

[deep pawn]

Wildhammer culture is more distinct and they're just dwarf customization

I'll never turn down more customization options

[glass flicker]

Speaking of bodytype customization, Dracthyr have shown us it's possible to be either thinner or chonkier.

Please add that to all other races.

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but honestly I don’t think that solution was received all that well. Personally I find it incredibly frustrating as someone whose caster main is evoker

That should be the last resort if anything

[ember blaze]

and when it breaks armor and nothing fits? 🤔

[glass flicker]

Did it break armor for Dracthyr? Pretty sure shoulders and belts look the same across all bodytypes for them.

[quartz lintel]

Any news about the San'layn armor mog ?

[ember blaze]

well those things were always there since it seems fit on anything no matter what

but maybe it can all work who knows

[glass flicker]

Exactly. Now, if Dracthyr could actually wear armor, it'd be a different issue. But since they can't, I can only be hopeful.

Textures aren't hard to work out, it's the 3D bits that would be a bit of a struggle.

That said, I would 100% be fine if they didn't do bodytypes, but instead allowed us to customize musculature.

Like, just change the texture of the body to have more pronounced muscles, or no muscles.

I know I'd want my human warrior to have abs.

Kul Tirans would legit look like modern bodybuilders with this, too.

[ember blaze]

i want races that dont exactly care for armor

[glass flicker]

Vrykul?

[ember blaze]

tall humans

what i mean is ethereals, sethrak

[glass flicker]

I want mechagnomes to not happen again.

Half-robot midgets with diapers.

😭

[ember blaze]

i dont understand the point of those

like was it just a half assed rushed job they had to fit into the expac?

all they could afford were those specific pieces

[glass flicker]

It could genuinely have been gnome customization. Just give them a prosthetics tab.

[ember blaze]

well it should have been full robot

random limbs is weird

[glass flicker]

Full robots would have been even worse, since story needs to happen.

Erazmin decided that no, automation is bad.

[ember blaze]

and i consider that bad 💀

[glass flicker]

Unfortunately, Blizz doesn't care what you think.

[ember blaze]

its a good thing im not talking to them right now

[glass flicker]

You never know.

I have suggested things that they've actually put in the game. :D

For example, I suggested holidays mogs should be made available all year. Lo, Winter Veil outfits are now usable.

[ember blaze]

i mean, they read feedback all the time yeah

holiday stuff all year has been requested for decades

and never made sense to keep locked out

specially with all the mogs that kinda break that 🤔

the half automation was pretty lazy imo though

[tulip sun]

Which I dislike already.

[glass flicker]

Right now, I'm just hoping they'll make some of the animations better.

[tulip sun]

Distinct peoples shouldn't be customization

imo

[glass flicker]

Really not a fan of what they're currently doing with animations, by just playing some in random succession and hoping nobody notices how broken the sequence looks.

Flurry Strikes for Shado-Pan Monk, for instance, is just ultra sped up autoattacks.

Demolish for Warrior? Cleave, Slam, Execute, with a different weapon trail.

They've got the budget, I don't see why they can't just make unique animations for these abilities.

They're supposed to be evergreen.

If I'm gonna watch the same gameplay, I want it to at least look good.

[ember blaze]

cry at the higher ups

[glass flicker]

Maybe I will.

[ember blaze]

ill see you at the mic next blizzcon 🫡

[glass flicker]

Not unless I see you first. :D

And walk the other way. ;)

[lavish raptor]

goes to blizzcon. gets on the mic. "when are you going to fix tormentors of torghast"

[ivory meadow]

know it's been a day since but I still am surprised that we actually got this emote this soon (it's peak)

[dense plover]

anyone know if character/account copy is working?

[uncut vault]

it's... iffy

some characters work, some just flat out don't

(which unfortunately includes my mains lol)

[ivory meadow]

It's not working for me; plus, interrupting the process can cause your transmog items and other stuff to be bricked.

[dense plover]

on retail or on ptr?

i assume ptr

[ivory meadow]

yeah PTR

[dense plover]

eh - idc about transmog on ptr

but i cant copy my data so i cant play

[little hound]

Where is this stated? 😮

[deep pawn]

Don't know the exact quest.

[sullen dawn]

Sheet exactly as predicted 😮

[sullen dawn]

We shouldn't forgive the naga theyte vicious cold blooded monsters

Rather make em into sushi

[dense plover]

this is retail but i didnt know if this would be okay to ask outside of here since it spoils an upcoming event - is there a reason the emmisary thing is in the current schedule when it doesnt start until july?

[sullen dawn]

Just a mistake

[dense plover]

Gotcha

[little hound]

Ooo. What event overview feature is this ?

[glass fulcrum]

Part of default UI, click on the right on your map under the ! like in the image

[zealous sedge]

||

[tropic trail]

Wait what? Is xal’atth friends now with us or what? 👀

[ivory meadow]

just an ally by circumstance

[glass flicker]

"F-fine! I'll help you idiot bakas!"

[tropic trail]

Man i just have a feeling that they just have any vision how the story will go and put just randomly whatever to make us cope harder

And then I get too invested and have headache after 🤣

[glass flicker]

I just hope they'll keep to the thematic come Midnight.

The War Within. Takes us to a different planet.

🤣

That's how "within" it gets.

[tropic trail]

Haha 😆

It’s war inside your very mind

[glass flicker]

Honestly? The war within the Dark Heart, at this point.

Since we'll be fighting Dimensus in there.

[tropic trail]

Thinkin „will i get gray hair now or not” 💀

Wait so we get shrinked to that medallion?

[glass flicker]

It appears so.

[tropic trail]

but at least the zone seems nice. Who cares about about lore anyways

[sullen dawn]

Everyone

Well everyone with taste

[tropic trail]

The question is .. if not Dimensius was xal’ataths goal then what 👀

[sullen dawn]

Azeroths world soul

[elfin eagle]

I can’t wait to see the cinematic where nexus king whatever goes “I never realized…destruction was bad…stop Dimensius before it’s too late”

[sullen dawn]

Hey the lore is ass now I agree

But I still value lore generally, and want it to be good

Also lmao

Us transmogging funded the the revival of dimensius

[tropic trail]

I dunno i kinda lost hope lol 😹

[sullen dawn]

Same

[rain cave]

Has this been posted?

[tropic trail]

Similar to Sylvanas btw she also was wrong at some point

[sullen dawn]

Yes

Day ptr dropped

[rain cave]

Fair

[sullen dawn]

Thats so funny that us trangmogging is the reason this raid is a thing

[rain cave]

We funded it?

Is that actually the lore xD

[sullen dawn]

Yeh lol

@rain cave

[elfin eagle]

Me too

I’m 21, I’ve been playing wow

Since like late tbc

I want this game to be good

[sullen dawn]

Now i feel old

35 being play since warcraft 2

*been playing

[elfin eagle]

It’s not even the new lore that bothers me but literally EVERY SINGLE STORY from dornagal to the undermine to the arathi

“The old ways are bad we need to be unified”

[sullen dawn]

Yep

[elfin eagle]

That’s it

[sullen dawn]

Its shit

[elfin eagle]

Dornagal titans are bad

[sullen dawn]

And people defend it

[elfin eagle]

New ways good

Azj kahet old rulers bad old master corrupt

New way Form a council good

Arathi highlands old way bad mean to orcs bad new way good

Undermine old way bad corporate greed bad new way good

[lone mantle]

I am so ancient, my first selfie was on a stone tablet.

[elfin eagle]

lol there are people 10 years younger then you who completely agree with you, so take pride it’s not just “nostalgia because I’m older”

[warm topaz]

i like 11.2 campaign

have you guys played it? what you think aboout it?

[tropic trail]

Yea same it’s not that bad

[elfin eagle]

I’m waiting till release

I already know about the team up

[warm topaz]

i understand Xal being with us and i really like that Alleria doesn't like that at all, no one convinces her

[elfin eagle]

It’s a cool direction but I’m a little worried xal will just be like “we may have stopped dimensius but you will not stop me” at the end

[tropic trail]

So how it happens she becomes our friend? She just like comes and “hey guys help me” or what

[elfin eagle]

When she’s already been out menuvered by us but I’m optimistic

[tropic trail]

“They stole my medallion lol” 😂

[tulip sun]

Thats 100% gonna be it. Shes still very much manipulating us and everyone else.

[ivory meadow]

That part ^

This is very much still an "allies by circumstance" situation; as soon as this is done, it's right back to stopping Xal.

[mighty wolf]

"I never believed... that Dimensius could be stoped... Perhaps... You... will prove me wrong" Xal touches his forehead. Then BOOM

[elfin eagle]

That’s fine, but I hope there’s more to it then just allied then back to enemies because xal atath isn’t a very threatening character to me rn

She just shows up says something gets thwarted

Like maybe she actually was weak and was hiding it, and was like “I underestimated you mortals” but because dimensius is in the dark hearth xal atath gains his power

[tulip sun]

Idk i feel theyve demonstra5ed her abilities pretty good. We may not see her herself fight, but her manipulations are the main threats

She also entered with destroying Dalaran. She manipulated a Nerubian kingdom and the goblin cartels to get what she wants.

Shes gaining strength slowly

[sullen dawn]

Appreciate that.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh but youre not mortal :p

[harsh mason]

Oh, bro got a promotion

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/npc=231516/nexus-prince-azir

[little hound]

Went from Phase-Thief to Nexus-Prince? Hah, neat.

[little hound]

Athelarius already made a campaign video, for those wanting more lore insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALdiHeSZ5L8

[little hound]

A..VOID..CAPYBARA?!

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-side-eye-gif-15315026488481095480

[elfin eagle]

My life has changed

[little hound]

Disenchanters will LOVE this

[upper pasture]

i don't think that's doing what you think it's doing

[ember blaze]

now we need a mount

[little hound]

I wish. I wanted a duck mount in DF.

[harsh mason]

I really hope that the SP will have unique dialogues with her.

[tropic trail]

“You gave it to the ethereals? Wait he wasn’t working for you?” 🤣

[hard axle]

Has the Void Demon Hunter quest been fixed yet?

[hard axle]

Reached Raid entrance quest point, so I checked out the Void Demon Hunter, and still broke

[pulsar minnow]

So the only thing that really implies eco dome Al’Dani is after the raid is || The implication that Salhadaar survives the raid but is dying somehow|| and ||the eco dome project continues to be a success||

[crude arch]

I can't see any ptr realms, is that normal?

[pulsar minnow]

Interesting tidbit of dialogue from Ve'nari

Might not mean anything but maybe just maybe it has something to do with the Jailer's last line

[ember blaze]

kinda ties to when alleria's voices really wanted her to kill sylvanas right

theres something theyre afraid of

[pulsar minnow]

my thoughts too

everyone back then thought it was death/the jailer but clearly its something else

[pulsar minnow]

I feel so bad for Locus Walker. The poor guy

[dense plover]

excellent reference

tazavesh has a map too - looks like theyre planning it as a legit city?

i assume no AH tho

[upper pasture]

Tazavesh is the player hub for 11.2

[dense plover]

wow, tried to enter and my game crashed

thats a new one

fun portal bug

the nemesis delve is in tazavesh

[deep pawn]

I just thought of my personal most cursed 11.2.5. No story but Torghast Revisited to collect Soul Ash for Ve'nari

[ember blaze]

whats the reference

is there a lore reason why kyveza is the delve boss

[dense plover]

if they brought it back as it was during alpha, it would be a banger

endless, breaks where you choose to leave, truly random and weird

honestly the core concept of a roguelike with random rooms is solid

they just need to do it better

[ember blaze]

their problem was tying player power to it

[lavish raptor]

khajiit

https://tenor.com/view/khajit-elder-scrolls-skyrim-gif-13407883883396268014

[ember blaze]

they got problems making side content like that too if dastardly duos is the best they could come up with as something new...

[lavish raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/if-you-have-coin-khajiit-has-wares-gif-11308612090305011233

[dense plover]

https://youtu.be/ouZLrFz0ntE?si=6SrKArh69DJEv0Cp

[ember blaze]

never liked/played elder scrolls so i was still lost at the above lol

[upper pasture]

i mean she DID say she'd let our bounties grow before coming to collect on them

[warm topaz]

i hope we don't kill her

she is such a cool character, we just kiilled her clon in Nerub'ar

[warm topaz]

that's a chad move the "yeah fight my clon, you wouldn't have any chance against me"

[little hound]

I'm 100% sure everything Xal says is a lie here

[dense plover]

xal made the kareshi into energy

[little hound]

Xal simping her way back to the Dark Heart.

[dense plover]

no chance - locus walker is the one telling us

locus walker was there

[little hound]

Oh i know that part is true.

I mean that she "Betrayed" the All Consuming? She's 100% Using us to get her relic back, and Dimensius's power with it

[pulsar minnow]

I doubt it

She was the one that helped expel Dimensius and shatter him into bits in the first place

[little hound]

She schemin, and it'll most likely be revealed after the raid.

[upper pasture]

i mean, isn't the agents of the void always trying to one up each other to gain the most power? would it be that hard to believe she would take a route to betray him for power for her own gains?

[little hound]

Yup.

[pulsar minnow]

Xal is scheming for sure, but this for her self. Not Dimensius

[little hound]

Seeing as the Old Gods are simple "Parasites" made by the Void Lords, they've always had a fetish for betraying eachother.

[warm topaz]

i wonder how they're going to make that work, is so obvious that she's going to do something after defeating DImensius, the question is what

[upper pasture]

like that's the whole thing of the void, heck two of the bosses in the raid are void lords that dimensius "frees" to have them attack us.

[pulsar minnow]

Maybe I misunderstood some stuff but holding the Reshii wrap of another seems to grant one power over the other? Something about oaths

Currently Xal has Alleria’s wrap. So maybe she’ll mind control. Otherwise we’re also told the veil between void and reality is very thin on K’aresh. Maybe it’ll be SL 2.0.

[deep pawn]

Voice lines suggest Xal is trapped inside the remains of the Dark Heart after we defeat Dimensius. She stays behind to keep the pocket dimension open to let us escape

Easiest solution is someone drops the Dark Heart into the Sunwell to free her once she's had a chance to fully absorb the energy inside

[pulsar minnow]

Do you have the voice lines?

[deep pawn]

"Sacrifices were inevitable, dear Alleria, but don't worry. I always survive" or something like that

They're in the mmo-c thread or you can probably search the .ogg files yourself

I think a cinematic paralelling Arthas's March to the Sunwell to resurrect Kel'thuzad would be pretty killer.

Locus Walker or Alleria, in the dark of night travels down the dead scar on Quel'danas to sneak into the Sunwell

[warm topaz]

and that could be the Midnight cinematic

[deep pawn]

I don't know if they'd want to parallel that hard though

[lavish raptor]

i bet alleria is going to have a "TRUST NOBODY" arc in midnight

[deep pawn]

Just imagine another Windrunner sister having a dedicated cinematic that ends with the sky changing haha

If they want me fully on board, have the cinematic narrated by Sylvanas talking about regrets

[warm topaz]

i had a dream, a big Xal head in the sky smiling like Argus in Legion but much much bigger

[deep pawn]

Like it would be so cool to hear Sylvanas talk about mistakes while we watch Alleria commit one

[ember blaze]

👀

the heck are those ribbons made out of

that theyre so powerful

[deep pawn]

Appears to be super concentrated arcane

[sullen dawn]

Its funny cos the demon hierarchy is also survival of the fittest

Even sargaras who brought order did so through dominance

[astral frost]

yeah her comments to ansurek upon her death seem pretty pertinent here

[zealous sedge]

Iridikron?

[deep pawn]

I don't think we see him again until TLT

He trusts the void to do whatever it needs to

[rain cave]

I'm very curious about midnight now

Not like we can trust xal at all

She might just be bluffing that she's trapped in there

Or even an illusion, so it looks like she is but she's actually swapped with alleria

And maybe that makes alleria absorb dimensius' energy, to become what xal needs for her next phase

But that's probably too much a stretch because this area wasn't even in her plan

[fathom fulcrum]

friends! rate my fit!

[rain cave]

The tooth picks of mannoroth

[fathom fulcrum]

😭

I like my gnome's fit

I think they are serving

[tropic trail]

Where you getting those glasses

Each time new one lol 😂

[sullen dawn]

Specsavers

[finite panther]

Anyone else still unable to get on PTR? Had this error since it came out

[sullen dawn]

Working for me at the moment. Make some retail wow processes aren't running the background as it confuses the realm portal

[finite panther]

Haven't launched retail today so would hope nothing is running, it works for my starter accounts is the weird thing

If I use a starter account I can join, but if I use my main it doesn't

[sullen dawn]

That does make it seem like a conflict from retail

[finite panther]

Any ideas on how i'd fix it? PTR doesn't offer support from what im gathering so basically relying on community help to get into the thing hahaha

[ember blaze]

check your account settigns and see if u actually applied ur main acc for ptr

[harsh mason]

I read the description of the battle with Nexus-King Salhadaar and to be honest, it looks like the final boss. I mean, another final boss in the raid, like it was with Anduin and Zovaal.

[crude sigil]

Nexus King Salhadaar is a great figure of ethereals kind

[deep pawn]

Someone found the unlisted Sandstorm Ad. 😄 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRD-OHs0KE

[lone mantle]

It is no longer available.

[deep pawn]

can't watch it embedded, gotta go to youtube

[tropic trail]

Unify worms for the celestials! 💪

If Algalon not reset you then I will lol 😆

But seriously trolls need to be retextured they look kinda oldish compared to orcs

They could give us also Kul’tiran thin pirate form

[harsh mason]

||According to the spoilers from the new dungeon, he will survive the events in the raid, but I'm not sure if I got it right.||

[little hound]

Can't imagine him being a threat without Dimensius to back him up. There's a reason he was a quest mob back in TBC

[sullen dawn]

Lmao modern blizzard storytelling in a nutshell

[austere gazelle]

ending up being a Delve final boss hey ?

pretty sure we'll see the decatriarch as a Zekvir boss somehow one day

[mossy meteor]

like kyveza?

[buoyant thicket]

do we have a date for k'resh?

[sullen dawn]

August

[thin warren]

no, but the normal cycle would be end of august

[sullen dawn]

Around when gamscom is on

Maybe the week before, but probably 24th I think

Then housing will release in December

And Midnight any time from mid Feb to early March

[tropic trail]

So probaly these two months we will have legion remix or something

[thin warren]

maybe just a .2 patch end of october and in november-dec legion remix then and no .7

[novel zodiac]

August 5th 11.2 - August 12th Manaforge Omega raid

[upper pasture]

We already have 11.2.7 on the roadmap

[thin warren]

ah 😄

[lavish raptor]

Lemix will prob be 11.2.7

Remop was 10.2.7 I thonk

[austere gazelle]

The leaking season has begun it seems.... 😂

best one so far :

[harsh mason]

hight elf allied race for alliance
🗿

[novel zodiac]

didnt we technically lost against Raszageth?

[lavish raptor]

Yeah true

She died but the other doogins broke out

[harsh mason]

Technically, her actions led to today's events. If it weren't for her, Iridikron wouldn't have been freed, wouldn't have created the dark heart , and so on🗿

[lavish raptor]

iconic

[warm topaz]

i love this lol

[sullen dawn]

Remix is after 11.2

[little hound]

Alot of this makes sense, but Leaks this early are never trustworthy.

I doubt we'll get high elves, are both Void and Belves can be customized to have Quel'dore (High Elven) Eyes already.

And the lore between the Thalassian and Amani is so violent, i doubt they'd ever cooperate, even with the void in their bumholes.

[sullen dawn]

Were world of peacecraft now remember

Orcs and humans should never have forgiven eachother and yet

Dont even get me started on worgen and forsaken

[deep pawn]

Woo Gamescom reveal confirmed

Yeah, they want story mode out before it

[thin warren]

story mode?

[deep pawn]

For the raid

For Undermine it came out a week after the raid release

So for an Aug 5th patch, Storymode should be the 19th

[thin warren]

aah, yes, the story mode for S3, got it

[warm topaz]

we don't know yet of course, but could Midnight be the expansion with the most content at launch ever?

[deep pawn]

Depends on if you count housing as extra content or not. Housing is an entirely different team

The main expansion should launch as big as TWW did

Ion already said even though it's revisiting an old area it'll still have a "full expansion" of 4 zones, 8 dungeons, and a raid

Or maybe that was Metzen

[warm topaz]

Ion in the Preach interview, i remember that

[warm topaz]

but yeah i count housing as a Midnight feature as i count Pluderstorm a DF feature

[deep pawn]

Will depend on who you ask

Some players will never touch housing and think Blizzard stole real content from them

[warm topaz]

yeah i was going to say that too, maybe some people don't count it as an expansion feature

[tulip sun]

The Horde already has forest trolls in it. So it fits

[deep pawn]

I just don't see them wasting space with allied races that are just customization

You can already play a high elf

That's the compromise Blizzard gave

Add some tattoos and you're done

All trolls need is a body type customization

We already have green skin

Nah, if Midnight has a race it better be Naga

[tulip sun]

Eh I think it is possible

That's what kost ARs are. And I think that should continue

And no we dont have green skin

[deep pawn]

Yes you do, you also have sand troll yellow lol

Those skin colors got added in Shadowlands

[tulip sun]

That is false. There is not a forest trolls green skintone

[little hound]

Lore doesn't make it a customization, lorewise we have forest trolls.

[tulip sun]

And ARs are perfect for races that may be similar to others but have a distinct identity.

[tulip sun]

We lorewise have forest trolls in the Horde via Revantusk

But there isn't a true green customization

[deep pawn]

Blizzard already said that was a mistake. That's why Wildhammer are customizations

It's why red skin is just a customization for Draenei

Only reason they'd still do an allied race is to add a skeleton to the faction like Earthen giving Horde dwarves

[tulip sun]

It isn't a mistake. Or else they wouldn't have done Earthen like that.

[novel zodiac]

why are you guys talking about skin color?, when people say they want to play amani they refer to this, big muscular trolls.

[tulip sun]

@deep pawn claims that we have that skintone available. But we dont.

[deep pawn]

That's why I say all they need to do is give a body type option to trolls

[novel zodiac]

no matter how much you want ARs to be over they wont ever be over

we just got stoney dwarves lmao

[tulip sun]

It'll just depend on the story and content

And the story is perfect for forest trolls

[deep pawn]

Earthen are much different than normal dwarves and again gave the skeleton to the Horde

You're more likely to see Alliance Forest Trolls than Horde

Again, expect customization options if anything if that's the route they're going

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/923480.jpg?maxWidth=600 Wowhead used this forever ago, but may have been an exact tone that didn't make it to live or lighting makes a difference.

[sullen dawn]

Id rather it was a new allied race

[sullen dawn]

Agreed

[sullen dawn]

And they just mentioned ARa and wanting to do more in one of 11.2 interviews

[deep pawn]

I don't want them to be over, that's not what I said, lol. I said Blizzard said Allied Races that are just customization was a mistake.

No matter what you say, Earthen aren't just a customization lol.

[lavish raptor]

we need buff troll women

[sullen dawn]

Forest Trolls wouldn't be either

They would have a different skeleton

Like picture above

They drank da vooodoo

Mutated

As many trolls do

[deep pawn]

If Amani are an allied race they'd probably be given the Worgen skeleton, 😛

[sullen dawn]

Orc i would say

Ifs usually a slightly tweaked skeleton, or taking components from 2 skeletons

[tulip sun]

I repeat: The Horde already has forest trolls in their ranks via the revantusk.

[sullen dawn]

Not to mention how the story might progress in 12.0

[deep pawn]

I know, that's why make it a customization option and be done with it, they don't need racials and stuff.

[sullen dawn]

I do believe trolls will be part od the "elf reunification"

They have the same origin

And allows us to do some elune stuff in midnight

[sullen dawn]

They do

[deep pawn]

Dracthyr show they can do body size as customization

[sullen dawn]

Dracthyr suck though

[deep pawn]

Orc posture is another example.

[sullen dawn]

Theyre the second worst rwce in wow except vulpera

And were not talking abojt posture. This thing is nothing like the existing trolls skeleton wise

[lavish raptor]

I think they just modified an orc skeleton

[deep pawn]

Yeah, and combat animation is the same which makes it a little funky at times.

But yeah, I would personally immediately discount any "leak" that says we're gonna get two allied races that barely add options to what we already have.

[lavish raptor]

Knockoff thrall action figure from the illegal action figure factory

[tulip sun]

They deserve their own story and spotlight, not haphazardly added like sand trolls.

I could say the same about your wants. Naga id an absurd request

Only way they'd work is with a dracthyr like ttransformation, and at that point theyre not Naga and just a reskin themselves

[deep pawn]

An illusion they can use sometimes stops them from being Naga? It'd only be so they can use mounts that aren't able to made into a chariot.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh no one thinks its real

Its just fun that fake leak season started

[deep pawn]

Worgen aren't ruined for example in that they can just be human outside of combat, lol.

[ember blaze]

to be fair, horde didnt have a dwarf

[tulip sun]

Worgen are not the same. Their entire concept is being cursed humans.

[deep pawn]

And Naga are essentially cursed Elves because Azshara made a deal.

[tulip sun]

Naga have never once shown to regularly change their shape or have a visage

Naga at this point are naturally born

[deep pawn]

not all of them.

[tulip sun]

But a majority are. And even then, theyre not known for like having a visage form like a lot of dragon kind.

So your wants have just as much against them as ours, so maybe dont go attacking other opinions

[ember blaze]

cant they just sit with their tail to the side

[deep pawn]

Queen Azshara starts off as our ally against the void, she grants them imperfect illusions to "ease the anxiety of the mortal races."

[ember blaze]

eh, i do agree that wasting space for a skin color is ridiculous

[deep pawn]

You're acting like some sort of illusion form is just totally impossible.

[tulip sun]

And your acting like adding more ARs as they have been is totally impossible

[ember blaze]

draenei did not need to take up a whole race slot for some yellow tattoos and a lighter skin tone

[tulip sun]

Eh agree to disagree. That is just a matter of opinion.

[ember blaze]

no its stupid

[tulip sun]

🤷‍♂️

[ember blaze]

and it wastes dev time

[deep pawn]

Earthen are the first they've added since BfA and that's after we saw stuff like Red Skin Eredar added as customization.

[ember blaze]

for something that is just a skin color option

[tulip sun]

A lot disagree and enjoy them

[lavish raptor]

I don't think we need more races tbh

[deep pawn]

And I'm sorry, Earthen are a lot more than Forest Trolls would be.

[lavish raptor]

Nemesis is already annoying

[tulip sun]

Earthen couldve been just skins. But they decided to expand them and add them as an AR.

It'd be the same for any they add

[ember blaze]

you can have them… the point is not to waste dev time making it an entirely new option

[tulip sun]

It isn't a waste of dev time if it suits the game.

[ember blaze]

your earthen example does not work because that is the unique example of a race the horde doesnt have

like if theyre opening it up to the horde whatever

but the demon draenei option for example did not need to waste another slot

its literally just a skin color

[tulip sun]

They didn't have to open it up to the Horde.

It was a decision. Like any of it is.

[ember blaze]

yeah the expac with the earthen sure will feel noce being horde

[tulip sun]

Couldve "easily" been added as a skin with old assets

[ember blaze]

another alliance expac i guess

[tulip sun]

But no, it wouldn't have been satisfying. Same with the skins as customization

[ember blaze]

it would have made it an alliance expac

[tulip sun]

Essentially is anyhow

My main gripe of the ARs is if they are just added as skins they largely dont get story or presence in the story.

[ember blaze]

again they could have continued the same dumb thing by making the red draenei a THIRD draenei slot

but they didnt thankfully

[tulip sun]

The Man'ari have been the anomaly, but all the others dont

Them adding a race harms no one and benefits those interested

[ember blaze]

they dont get stories??? the draenei have a whole questkine dedicated to it

they can keep doing that..

without wasting race slots

for a clone

[ember blaze]

i would say it harms actually getting new playable races to play

if theyre all dedicated to clones

you can currently rp as a high elf, we do not need another clone that just says high elf on the character screen

[deep pawn]

It amuses me that the Earthen are so much taller haha

[tulip sun]

As i said, the Man'ari have been the anomaly.

[tulip sun]

Its not about RP. It is about the story

I can ro whatever I want

[deep pawn]

Wildhammer customizations were added in Shadowlands.

[tulip sun]

Rp*

[deep pawn]

The high elf customizations were Shadowlands too

Darkfallen were just a skin and eye color

It's possible they go big enough with Amani, but I cannot see how they can go big enough with High Elves to meaningfully add stuff to what we already have.

[tulip sun]

Yeah I know. Thats the issue

They were added with no story besides Man'ari

[deep pawn]

Give Blood and Void elves some tattooes and more braided hair and call it a day.

[deep pawn]

Darkfallen got story.

Not my fault you ignored it during the unlock haha

Wildhammer had already joined the Alliance in Cata. It was them who taught Ironforge dwarves how to be shaman.

Other options like Dark and Sand trolls, Blizzard said, it's your character, you can make the story up about how your character managed to join the horde.

[tulip sun]

Debatable

[tulip sun]

And that's the issue. And Wildhammer may have been in the alliance but it doesn't mean they dont deserve that story and spotlight ARs would get

[deep pawn]

That spotlight at this point extends to a little bit of the starting experience.

Earthen didn't get an unlock scenario this time but their starting experience sorta mimics it

[tulip sun]

Playable races get consistent presence through the story, even if it is just that- being there, as well as their leaders being involved.

Their recruitment, heritage and so on

[deep pawn]

We're likely gonna see Falstad in Midnight if the story takes place outside of Quel'thalas at all lol.

Yes it sucks that the council of three hammers formation was relegated to a book, but that's ancient history at this point

[tulip sun]

Doesnt change the fact that npc races in factions (including those simply added as cudtomization) largely lack story presence and importance.

[lavish raptor]

wym you don't think "we decided to join you guys for fun" is compelling basis for allied races

[zealous sedge]

lol “Big surprise left, wont’t spoil that one” feels like bait.

[sullen dawn]

Its not a waste for many

[upper pasture]

"here's this leak but i'm not gonna leak everything" yeah okay

[sullen dawn]

No one seriously believes the leak lol

Or they houldn't

[zealous sedge]

I was gonna say lol

People will absolutely believe the leak. It’s 4chan

[sullen dawn]

Lol

[lavish raptor]

Belluar video when

[zealous sedge]

If it was real though do we really need another elven race lol

[sullen dawn]

No

[zealous sedge]

Thankfully someone agrees

[sullen dawn]

Maybe we just get Amani trolls as a neutral allied race

[upper pasture]

that's not gonna stop blizzard from giving us another one tho

[sullen dawn]

Since earthen were neutral for tww

[zealous sedge]

True 💀

Yes give me a beefy troll and tank shaman spec because of it

[deep pawn]

I'm totally down for Trolls to get more customization, but unless Amani are available to both factions, leave it as just customization.

The Amani are gonna be part of Midnight regardless

[sullen dawn]

Nah allied race

[lavish raptor]

Add an alternate skeleton to trolls

[sullen dawn]

Merge all elves into one race and make everything customisation

[ember blaze]

still coping for ethereals

"let us know if thats something you wanna play" theyve been telling you for 20 years

[lavish raptor]

Only if I can also be a broker

[ember blaze]

would be cool yeah

[tulip sun]

Nah id be a little annoyed if we dont get horde Forest trolls. Itd be like orcs or humans being neutral at that point.

At least Earthen were never tied to a faction

[sullen dawn]

While there are some forest trolls in horde, most arent

It depends on how the story goes in Midnight

Im easy either way

Just want em

[tulip sun]

I want playable horde forest trolls and for revantusk to get their due.

[deep pawn]

I am slightly amused by people speculating we won't get Ethereals, but a restored K'areshi mortal form haha.

The craziest of those speculations is that the K'areshi are Haranir.

[zealous sedge]

I could see K’areshi mortal form for an Ethereal race like the Visage form on Dracthyr

We haven’t seen any models of what they used to look like right? Atleast I haven’t seen any. Maybe there will be some flashbacks somehow in 11.2

[deep pawn]

a mortal K'areshi paired with the ethereal armors would explain why they think the armors are enough to let you RP as an Ethereal.

I don't know where the cat-people rumor came from but it's hilarious haha

[uncut vault]

The story in 11.2 establishes that it’s been so long that most of them don’t even remember what their physical forms used to look like

[zealous sedge]

That makes sense. The destruction of K’aresh was way before the sundering and black empire right?

[deep pawn]

The mortal form rumor is purely from the dungeon being important to the future of the Ethereals and the similarities of the Wastelander and Haranir oaths and dedication to a world soul.

[zealous sedge]

I thought it was interesting the K’areshi mounts that were datamined. I wonder if that points towards what fauana were like on K’aresh. They look like an Arakki and gryphon hybrid.

[zealous sedge]

I feel like we’ll definitely get a time walking thing in Midnight to learn some answers to new questions we have after 11.2. That is if the Bronze Dragonflight and their ability to alter time is even possible on another planet.

[dense plover]

probably sometime after the titans showed up and locked up the old gods and before the sundering

but we really dont know

[deep pawn]

The timelines in general are weird, cause Legion tells us the Titans died really early in the history of all things

PTR extremely unstable lol

[deep pawn]

K'aresh's destruction predates the Burning Legion based on Xal being on Azeroth during the Black Empire.

[uncut vault]

Definitely not after the titans imprisoned the old gods, because Xal’atath was active on K’aresh at the time

Had to have been during/pre-Black Empire, since she had to have done it before she got imprisoned in the dagger

[deep pawn]

Again this makes the timeline weird and stuff.

Cause this implies that K'aresh's society rose prospered and got destroyed all before the Titans really got started lol.

[uncut vault]

Well no, there are eons and eons of the titans being around, the “modern” timeline is just from when they found Azeroth

[deep pawn]

I know Azeroth was the last they found but meh.

[zealous sedge]

And so far we only know that Xal was “working for” Dimensius and don’t know much before that? I’ve just been catching up after a week of no wow time lol

[deep pawn]

her world was destroyed

[zealous sedge]

Ah yes I read that. Any mention of how she survived? Did she pledge loyalty to the void or something?

[deep pawn]

no idea

[sullen dawn]

Please no cat people lmao

[dense plover]

youre right - i didnt think about that

wonder how she ended up on karesh

[sullen dawn]

Probably sent their by void Lords

*there

After ethereals stated sucking up the energy from their sun

[dense plover]

it seems like she has a deep seated hatred of dimensius

so i think its more than that

[sullen dawn]

Yeh likely they dont value her/didnt help when old gods imprisoned her, but yes you could be completely right

Theres a lot we dont know about her origins, ans until we do its hard to say why she has beef

[ember blaze]

where was it established shes not from the void 🤔

[austere gazelle]

actually both can be true. World souls are rare withing the cosmos and the Titans were looking for them and for the Prime, they just never found K'aresh and probably weren't even aware of what was happening. their ordering took eons

They are lucky to have found so many world souls and awake them as titans to begin with

[deep pawn]

it's in the questing, I don't know exactly which one

But she says her world was destroyed.

[austere gazelle]

Well, If Azeroth is the font of creation, the Prime that was there first before the Darkness and Light, maybe her goal is to control her to remake the cosmos and maybe restore her world somehow. Since apparently Azeroth can manifest dream into reality and make them tangible or even real...

[pulsar minnow]

It’s in the lorewalking

It’s more so implied

IE: the old gods mention that there was a time before the void “embraced her”

[deep pawn]

plus new PTR stuff

[pulsar minnow]

I did the questing and there was no mention of her “world being destroyed” are you sure you’re not mixing up locus walkers deal with Xal with that

[upper pasture]

I think is was more so that the old gods embraced her not the void specifically, since she was using the void to attack the old gods no?

[pulsar minnow]

well the old gods said she betrayed not only the black empire (old gods) but also the darkness that had embraced her (void)

[ember blaze]

i like porter's theory that the old gods also betrayed the void

cause they got influenced in the same way the earthen were by azeroth

[pulsar minnow]

its definitely possible. considering azeroth's whole thing is free will

[upper pasture]

Isn’t it established that the void betrays because each void being sees themselves as superior over the others?

[pulsar minnow]

well that's just xal's philosophy really

[upper pasture]

And pretty much any void aligned being besides locus walker but even that’s up in the air

[pulsar minnow]

i mean we haven't really heard any beings besides xal'atath say that

im not saying she's wrong but i don't think its a universal rule

[upper pasture]

Dimensius absorbed two other void lords and “releases” them to fight us and probably the only reason he would ever release “lesser” void lords.

[pulsar minnow]

well either way, the point of the old gods on azeroth was to prepare the planet for the voids arrival. We've seen others of their kind do this to other planets before. But for us, our old gods decided they didn't want to serve the void lords and instead do their own thing on azeroth

which is where the azeroth free will influence theory comes into play, as azeroth has shown time and time again to counteract mind control and give beings like the earthen free will

[sullen dawn]

Do you have a link for this? There was no new ptr build

Well theres a vendor but cant be datamined yet

I havent gone that far into the questing in the first build so I actually dont know if she said that her world was destroyed, but id like to see the text

[uncut vault]

I assume it's a Silver Surfer situation, just instead of the Surfer being a noble person forced to serve, he's also shitty just in a different way lol

[dense plover]

i think it may be more along the lines of dimensius stole some of her power a long time ago or something

[sullen dawn]

So kyle made it up?

Or is there lines about her world being destroyed?

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[astral frost]

don't have the quote but she does mention being mortal from a world that dimensius destroyed, yes

[zealous sedge]

14.0 we’re going back to her world in the past before it was destroyed because we lose everything in the end of TLT. So basically Avengers Endgame to reverse it all. /s

[sullen dawn]

Wow thats a pretty big reveal

So the void decided to spare or "embrace" her when they did so?

I wonder why they think she'd just be cool with it