beta-ptr-spoilers

[sullen dawn]

Turn them into coats

[thin warren]

Rude!

[tropic trail]

I thought you liked, no? 😂

[little hound]

I agree

[rain cave]

Vulpera fit better than void elves

[sullen dawn]

They both suck (and dracthyr)

None of them fit in wow

Post bfa the story and character design team became so my little pony

[ember blaze]

yeah, the only thing that fits in wow is humans and elves

anything else is too crazy for a fantasy game

[pulsar minnow]

i dont mind vulpera or dracthyr as they are

Though i wish they made dracthyr look more like this edit (that said this edit is juxtaposed against the skinniest dracthyr body option and was made before df alpha even started)

[uncut vault]

I always wonder if people would accept vulpera better if they had generic buff furry look, because narratively they're the most directly fitting race to the WC3 Horde we've gotten in WoW

Nomadic outcasts in a hostile land being driven to extinction by their generations-old enemy, and finding strength through mutual bonds with their newfound allies? Such an unfitting race for Warcraft.

Picture unrelated.

[pulsar minnow]

I prefer vulpera to be small, gives more variety to the ranks of the horde. They're silly and fill that niche that there is definitely room for

[tulip sun]

Yeah i truly dont see why people are against Vulpera

They fit so well within the Horde

[lone mantle]

I enjoy playing a Night Elf, because I can disappear twice, once with Vanish and once with Shadowmeld.

[sullen dawn]

I never said

Love dwarves, tauren, orcs, trolls, gnomes etc.. etc..

[sullen dawn]

If they weren't so furry coded I probably wouldn't had them so much

[sullen dawn]

They should definitely look like the right

The left ks basically

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-she-tirned-me-into-a-newt-gif-14862319

[sullen dawn]

Thats not the part I have issue with

[ember blaze]

cat girls waiting room

[rain cave]

Pandas and silly fish people were in warcraft since wc3

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/minty-minty-bean-anime-cat-girl-cat-girl-anime-gif-16791694288499510566

[sullen dawn]

Degenerate behaviour:p

[sullen dawn]

Yes and theyre proud stoic people

They dont sing about llamas in baby voices

[rain cave]

Orcs used to be mongolian now they're just western style barbarian culture

[ember blaze]

wish wow armor looked that good, only good thing out of ff14 🙊

[rain cave]

This must be bait lol

[sullen dawn]

Yeh their asian culture was cool, with the bladesnasters especially

[ember blaze]

no painted on armor

[sullen dawn]

It is

[ember blaze]

it is not

[sullen dawn]

FF mog is horrible

[rain cave]

My point is silly stuff being turned serious is a WoW staple

[sullen dawn]

Looks like a imgur convention

[ember blaze]

i dont care for the armor itself

like the style

[rain cave]

And vice versa

[ember blaze]

im talking about how its made

i dont see painted on armor

[sullen dawn]

Im allowed to be disturbed by vulpera

[rain cave]

Warcraft is built on humour as well as cool factor, those are the two core tenets

[lone mantle]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24213948

[elfin eagle]

This, the best parts of wow where always the parts that were a lil wacky

[warm topaz]

we need news for this week

[deep pawn]

Surely

[zealous sedge]

If we don’t we riot

[sullen dawn]

If we don't we wait until the following week

[ember blaze]

are there any races in WoW besides humans + elves that have mixed? 🤔

[tulip sun]

We've heard of goblins and Night Elves

[deep pawn]

Orcs with ogres and Draenei

[ember blaze]

lol

so garona is mixed

[deep pawn]

And technically there's a human, orc, Draenei, demon mix if Medan isn't noncanon

[ember blaze]

it seems kinda bad that they dont share many features?

what part of garona is draenei

she just looks like an orc

[deep pawn]

They have never gave her a special model

Technically her being part Draenei is a retcon

[ember blaze]

im finding some drawings with her eyes glowing

but that has to be the most laziest thing you can do

[deep pawn]

She was originally half human from an assault and magically aged during the first war.

[ember blaze]

apparently this dude also mixed with an earth elemental

[deep pawn]

Lantresor is half Draenei too I believe

For some reason orc genetics are very dominant lol

[ember blaze]

an elf is basically just a human with long ears, so im like whatever if thats all they share

but if u mix with a draenei im expecting at least a tail

it just seems like a weird thing to not explore more?

[deep pawn]

Not much reason for two minor characters

[ember blaze]

and if they do it's like human + elf and that is it

[ember blaze]

even so, it's not like the races have been together for however long

how is it not represented anywhere

[uncut vault]

they added some more lore to them in the draenei heritage, along with a look that is more clearly half-draenei

[ember blaze]

cool 😅 i hope they keep exploring this stuff more

guess i should watch a playthrough of that heritage questline 🤔

[uncut vault]

It's honestly better to play yourself, even if you just make a trial character for it

[deep pawn]

I mean if all it takes is soft glow eyes and a new skin color its an easy add for rp

[uncut vault]

there's so many NPCs, even more than the orc heritage

[deep pawn]

Blizzard's stance lately is character RP basically allows anything

That's why you can be a sand troll for example

The root zone datamined in alpha was connected to Azj Kahet right?

[rain cave]

I believe so, since the roots were sticking out there and there's a place where you get put to sleep with green magic

[zealous sedge]

Buzzkill

[deep pawn]

I saw Marlamin post they hope it's not Rootlands because only reason we know about it is datamining

But ethereals are just as datamined with the raid icons

[upper pasture]

I mean I feel like we’ve been getting teased with ethereal stuff for awhile now

[deep pawn]

But Haranir have been just as much

Which is why I do think both datamines are right and it's Rootlands with Ethereal Raid

[warm topaz]

if its Rootlands, i hope the zone design is good

[deep pawn]

More black blood, more Titan stuff probably, plus lots of autumn nature

Mushrooms, golds, stuff like that

[warm topaz]

i didn't like black blood in 11.1

like, the visuals

[upper pasture]

Really? We’ve been getting haranir stuff since SLs?

I’ve said it before but I think haranir/rootlands will be what brings us back after we chase down the dark heart. Like yeah we know that something will/is happening with the black blood but the nuclear weapon just floating around space needs to be dealt with first l

[deep pawn]

Except we don't know where it is, and for us it's a good thing it's not on Azeroth or in Xal's hands. So we need a reason to care about it

[upper pasture]

That’s even more of a reason to try and get it before she reclaims it and does more damage with it

[deep pawn]

Until this patch all we had was semi unreliable narrators saying Brokers had nothing to do with Ethereals. So Ethereals only really reentered the story in 10.2.7 shortly before Haranir got introduced

[deep pawn]

Great, it's somewhere we don't know with no way to get to it. So the path of least resistance is its brought back to be used against Azeroth so we have a reason to fight the Ethereals

[upper pasture]

Was the boss in NP not an ethereal?

[deep pawn]

NP is after 10.2.7...

[upper pasture]

Oh right 10.2.7, so now that we’re learning that brokers and ethereals have a connection, we can see that they’ve been in play since SLs patch?

[sullen dawn]

Just dont want people to be too disappointed if its not next week

[upper pasture]

Like don’t get me wrong I want to go to rootlands too just not another expansion ending with another green zone

[sullen dawn]

It'd probably be more brown (naturally) and purple/black (old god gooooo) if they did do rootlands

But pleaseeeeeee be karesh

[sullen dawn]

I always said they were connected

We discussed it a few weeks before it was confirmed

[deep pawn]

My assumption is that Danuser absolutely did make the Brokers with 0 Ethereal connection in mind.

[sullen dawn]

They were always connected imo. It just wasnt revealed

[deep pawn]

I said it made 0 sense for them to not be connected and Metzen likely said that too so they're working it into the story

[sullen dawn]

Nope you said i was wrong and brokers weren't ethereals

[deep pawn]

I said the only canonical source we had was the grimoire with the brokers saying they were Shadowlands natives and I'm fairly sure the book even scoffs at assumptions they're dead Ethereals

[sullen dawn]

Yes and I said dont listen to that as its biased

[deep pawn]

Its biased only when Blizzard wants to retcon stuff

[sullen dawn]

Stop moving the goalposts

[uncut vault]

The Grimoire makes it basically 100% explicit that the brokers not only consider themselves natural entities of death, but they have no fundamental understanding of how reality outside of the Shadowlands actually works

It's definitely a soft retcon, if nothing else, that they're actually former mortals from K'aresh haha

[sullen dawn]

I know, and I said the grimoir3 was wrong

And I was right

You could see it coming a mile away

[deep pawn]

The grimoire is only wrong because Blizzard likely changed the Brokers cause it made 0 sense to have two races of energy beings with Arabic cartel cultures.

[sullen dawn]

Fine. It was easy to anticipate that would be their choice

[deep pawn]

Yes, but that's why I say the Ethereal plot we're likely going to get in 11.2 hasn't been planned out since Shadowlands

[sullen dawn]

At the end of the day you or I dont know what their thoguht process was internally. We can just see that they presented us skmethjng in Sl which was easy tk guess was untrue, and then was confirmed to be untrue

[sullen dawn]

You're just guessing though

[deep pawn]

It probably wasn't untrue at the time but the entire creative staff since then has been replaced.

[sullen dawn]

"probably"

"Tales from my ass"

[deep pawn]

Yes, we're absolutely still going off Afrasiabi and Danuser's plot. /S

Blizzard operates off rule of cool and it's a cool moment to have this reveal even if its in side content many will skip.

Its a retcon at some level but it really doesn't matter

I just disagree that they've been working towards this patch since Shadowlands

[sullen dawn]

Never said that

[sullen dawn]

That's irrelevant to the outcome though. May or may not be true but its basically just your strawman since you were wrong

[upper pasture]

Towards this patch as a whole? No. Towards setting up the broker/ethereal enemies. Probably so it didn’t feel so out of left field

[sullen dawn]

Agree

[deep pawn]

We've had an Ethereal plot for a while, I think it the brokers are a last minute thing in TWW alpha at the earliest

[upper pasture]

A lot of people complain that blizzard doesn’t properly set up villains, yet here they are setting up villains and you are denying it

[sullen dawn]

Honestly feels like one of the most earned villain races since legion

But more interesting due to factions

[deep pawn]

And I don't think they've even been set up as villains. At worst they're gonna be all "your world has to die to save ours"

[upper pasture]

I know I’m excited to see more about them ever since seeing them in Karazan

[sullen dawn]

Yeb but you think were going to rootlanda 😂

[sullen dawn]

Been obsessed with them since netherstorm in tbc hah

[deep pawn]

If it's us invading Karesh with 0 prompting besides getting the Dark Heart we're the villains in that story.

[sullen dawn]

It will likely be a "azeroth will die so that karesh lives angle"

They wanna suck ip our world soul to either a) fix their world, or b) regain their mortal forms

[deep pawn]

That's literally what I just said but you are acting like that's wrong

[sullen dawn]

If it dooms azeroth it is

Its "us or them"

[deep pawn]

And I argue that isn't inherently villainous, it's also similar to another recent MMO plot but that's an argument for another day .

[sullen dawn]

Its not villainous to destroy a world souls (and possibly the whole planet)

Right

[deep pawn]

So we agree that the main way they'd be antagonists is if they're a risk to Azeroth which is why I think they invade the Rootlands

[sullen dawn]

Oh yeh they totally have a reason tk invade the core

I just dont think it will be the battlefield

[deep pawn]

Its gray cause if it's the only way to save their planet and races, would you not do anything for that?

[sullen dawn]

I dont disagree they want to get to our world soul. They just probably have to dk something on karesh first

[sullen dawn]

Yes we azerothians probably would. But they still wanna genocide us effectively

Their intent doesnt really matter

[deep pawn]

Intent always matters, it's what makes deeper antagonists

[sullen dawn]

This makes them good villains imo

[deep pawn]

Fyrakk was called a joke for having no motivations besides burning stuff

[sullen dawn]

Instead kf just being mustache twirlers

[sullen dawn]

Which is why he was a shit villian

A villain being somewhat understandable is good! Doesn't mean theyre not an antagonist in the plot

[deep pawn]

To me villain just means irredeemable to some extent. If the Ethereals only way to restore their world is destroying another world soul? That just becomes two groups fighting for survival. The Ethereals are still alive unlike some similar plots.

[sullen dawn]

And i meant in terms of our reaction. We wont just go "oh yeh you can fuck our planet" because it saves theirs

[sullen dawn]

Villain is just a role in a story

Analogous to antagonist

One man's villain is another man's hero

(If done well)

[deep pawn]

To me villain implies a level of pure evil that I don't think the Ethereals exhibit so far.

[sullen dawn]

Its not what the word means

[deep pawn]

It'd be like calling Quillboars villains just cause orcs invaded Durotar.

[deep pawn]

The strict definition of antagonist of the hero of a story/play lacks the nuance the word now has of some level of unrepetent evil.

[ember blaze]

why?

we cant have villains that are purely evil because they just are?

[sullen dawn]

Bad writing

[crude sigil]

Fyrakk is just a small Wish version of Neltharion without any real purpose. Many things of DF have so lack of writing or originality

[upper pasture]

i feel like Fyrakk was just the throw away villain that was required to build up others, the the true villain of DF is still out there

and out of all of the incarnates he was the most "evil" and unstable one only to become more evil and unstable once he infused himself with the shadowflame

and it's not bad writing to have a villain like that here and there but if it's just a repeat of the same "oh here's the big bad for this expansion" only for us to deal with them within the same expansion in full it becomes bad and tiresome.

[ember blaze]

no it isnt 💀

not every villain needs to have some insane 500 iq motive

or world ending motivation

some characters can just be bad

[sullen dawn]

There an infinite spectrum between "shitty villain with no relatable motivation" and "500 iq motive"

Take a few writing classes

Maybe you'll spell Toby right then too :p

[zealous sedge]

I returned to wow right after 10.2 launched. I hadn’t really played since the beginning of WoD. I thought the “other side of the clutch villain crew” was intriguing. Not knowing 10.1 Sarakreth seemed like an unbelievable villain as in I’m not sure how he could be so strong to be the last boss of a raid tier (unless he was empowered by the void?). Fyrakk was a fine villain - he kinda felt like the middle child left behind though. I could see after reading many comments about the storytelling of SL and BfA that the lack of a long term villain has become dull.

[sullen dawn]

First half of BFA had the best writing WoW has ever had (sylvanas aside but even that wasnt the worst), except second half of legion

[zealous sedge]

Ah, I’ve only heard negative things about BfA because of the last half

I do love the zones though

[sullen dawn]

Not that it was amazing or anything but jainaz story, talanjis etc.. were awesome. Bwomsamdi is one of the best characters they've ever created

[sullen dawn]

They realllllllly dropped the ball as soon as nzoth was released

The main issue with BFA story before then was simply telling too many threads at once, but honestly the threads themselves were cool, and it was a hell of a lot better than the anemic writing of DF and TWW (we dont talk about SL hehe)

[zealous sedge]

Yeah it just seems to me there was no long term creative strategic vision and whatever restructuring was going on behind the scenes (in terms of introducing seasons and the 8 week cadence, etc) inhibited them from creating a large story arc. That’s just all conjecture though.

[sullen dawn]

Sounds plausible

The old soldier quality cinematics helped a lot too

They made the war feel real

[zealous sedge]

And say what you will about Metzen but I think he really understands how to weave a story between expansions. Even though he made a couple mistakes imo during the cataclysm days

[sullen dawn]

"Anduin visiting saurfang in his cell" VS "xalatath slurping up everything with the magic mcguffin" is a night and day difference in quality

[zealous sedge]

I blame Disney and Marvel… the villains need to be omnipotent these days

That’s what people expect

[sullen dawn]

Likewise, even though Abafrasi was a terrible person, he understood warcraft a hell a lot better than those who came next

[sullen dawn]

And then once in a blue moon we get a miracle like Andor

[zealous sedge]

It’s like when they killed off Tirion because it was peak Game of Thrones during that time so they had to be flashy

I think like don’t fall into the “do what is trendy” trap

Just make a story you like that has some stakes

[sullen dawn]

They always do

Because theyre not confident writers

[zealous sedge]

I wonder why they are not

[sullen dawn]

Because they lack talent

[zealous sedge]

Culture? Wrong people?

[sullen dawn]

Wrong people

[zealous sedge]

Talent is few and far between this days

In everything

[sullen dawn]

Culture seems fairly good these days, generally speaking

[sullen dawn]

Yes because algorithms drive uptake, not quality

[zealous sedge]

Maybe. But when I think about culture I mean that culture behind making people better writers

[sullen dawn]

Were creating a generation of trend chasers haha

[sullen dawn]

Ah yes

I was speaking generally

[zealous sedge]

Like usually in a job that’s healthy with a good culture people want to learn from each other and help make each other better at their jobs

Some are naturally gifted with good writing that is for sure but that doesn’t mean you can’t learn to be a good writer

So since Abafrasi was shit person I bet he didn’t develop the writing room.

But also like when I read quest text especially in TWW I really like what I see and I wonder why those writers of quest text aren’t be elevated to help construct the larger story.

[ember blaze]

doesnt help how many people blizzard bleeds

[zealous sedge]

True

[ember blaze]

sad to see an artist you liked be let go or move elsewhere cause they are paid better or get to work from home

[zealous sedge]

Yeah

I think 11.2 is a make a break for this expansion for me. I’ve enjoyed TWW so far but it really needs to end strong.

[sullen dawn]

Luckily won't have to wait long for midnight even if its a wash

Even if the midnight story sucks, housing is here. I dont mind if WoW just becomes Animal Crossing azeroth edition for me hehe

[warm topaz]

also, u got Legion Remix in the meantime

[sullen dawn]

Yep. Mostly curious about the "world tier difficulty system" for that, and if the experiment works out, if itll come to live. I've been asking doe this for years haha

*for

Alpha likely hits late august/early september too

[zealous sedge]

The expectations for midnight are becoming Legion levels amongst the player base I feel

[sullen dawn]

Yep

[zealous sedge]

Which is concerning because TLT would have to top that

Gonna be sad if we can’t do artifact weapons in remix. But I guess I can wait til Legion Classic

Never got to experience the artifact system

[warm topaz]

i think even bigger

[zealous sedge]

Rip in piece

If I can’t fly my house in TLT WoW is dead /s

[warm topaz]

it is not crazy to think that Midnight could be an expansion as good as/better than Legion

[zealous sedge]

No definitely not

My only question is if housing puts every other potential feature on the back burner or has there been a completely insulated separate team working on housing to keep development unaffected

[upper pasture]

probably separate team

[warm topaz]

i think its confirmed that is a separate team

their base is in Boston iirc

[dense plover]

almost definitely a separate team

[zealous sedge]

That’s good

[upper pasture]

like remember that whole as developer blizzard acquired

[dense plover]

microsoft is almost certainly okay with funding a housing dev team - its a feature that sells the game for an entire audience

[zealous sedge]

Oh yeah I vaguely remember that

[warm topaz]

Proletariat

[dense plover]

there are going to be people who join wow literally just for housing

[zealous sedge]

True point with the Microsoft thing. It’s like a staple of major online AAA games now. Like look at Dune and that’s technically just a survival game.

With some MMO spice

[dense plover]

well - thats more of an ark-like

[zealous sedge]

True

[upper pasture]

i know for a fact my wife is looking to come back and my friend who's a FF14 main is thinking about switching

[dense plover]

but both guild wars 2, ffxiv, and i think ESO have housing

ff14's housing seems embarrassing in comparison to the tools wow will provide tho

[deep pawn]

Cause in general when WoW does something, they do it

They don't just slap something together

[dense plover]

the ability to fully place an item however you want, the ability to color an item in a variety of colors, no plot limits so everyone can have a house

[deep pawn]

Housing has been in development for like 6 years now

Most games don't have that type of timeframe to deliver something

[dense plover]

and likely no limit on how many of your own items you can display in 3D when ffxiv has a very strict limit due to using ancient tech and refusing to ever modernize

[sullen dawn]

They did say the featureS of midnight would blow our socks off

[zealous sedge]

It’s gonna be incredible. I hope to be lucky enough to try in Alpha.

[dense plover]

im curious how theyll continue to expand the talent trees

[deep pawn]

Housing's placement system is so advanced that the main level designers are like "Can we have it?"

[zealous sedge]

That has been a point of contention for me too.

[dense plover]

i have to assume theyll do a mix of expanding sub-specs and additional talent levels

[sullen dawn]

Although honestly I think I have a better idea of the features coming in TLT than the non-housing Midnight features Scipio haha

[deep pawn]

I'm still on the return of the Netherlight Crucible in name only for Midnight.

The Crucible also ties into Alleria and Turalyon's story.

[sullen dawn]

Makes sense. Not really a box feature though

[deep pawn]

I mean if it's light vs void talent system.

[dense plover]

whatever they do, it wont be borrowed power - theyre not doing that anymore as a permanent mechanic, so it has to stick around

[zealous sedge]

I think so too. I know Ion emphasized eliminating “borrowed” power. But there is always that kind of critical point where expanding trees to far becomes just diminishing returns because it’s all buffs to existing skills.

[sullen dawn]

Sure but we got that in a . patch before

[deep pawn]

Permanent for a "bit."

[dense plover]

it really cant be tied to an expac mechanic b/c that means they have to keep the expac in the story forever

[dense plover]

not really

thats borrowed power again

theyre not doing that

[zealous sedge]

I saw you say this the other day I think this could work but would it be too much of the same for every class.

[deep pawn]

There's 0 chance they don't reset the board in 14.0 in some degree.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh, i think borrowed power that lasts for the saga is possible. I think hero talents will be rolled into main talents ans system removed after TLT ends

[zealous sedge]

I think we have to define what exactly is “borrowed” power. Nothing really lasts forever in wow.

[dense plover]

i mean maybe, but theyre not going to redo from scratch - the work they put in to the talent system was intended to be a permanent change moving forward

[sullen dawn]

Were on agreement on something! Huzzah

[dense plover]

they just need to be comfortable adding abilities that upgrade existing ones and replace them, or giving people more button options

[deep pawn]

Hero talents may stick around during the level squish, but I dunno, I think that'll be at the point when some people are really tired of having them around.

[zealous sedge]

Like we won’t have the same talent trees in 5 expacs from now almost guaranteed

[sullen dawn]

Totally agree. Losing something about 5 years of having it is not the same as after 1 expansion

[deep pawn]

I mean I wouldn't be against using light and void powers against the Titans, would give them a reason to be mad at us.

[sullen dawn]

In fact I bet we'll be bored as hell with it by then

[zealous sedge]

I think the thing with borrowed power is that they have to listen very closely to the player base. I think it can work in certain scenarios. Like legion with the artifact weapons. But it lasted the whole expansion.

[zealous sedge]

They could expand that and make it all cosmic forces and their attributes?

For future expansions

[deep pawn]

I work off the assumption that whatever they add in Midnight and TLT is gone when we go say hi to the Emperor.

[sullen dawn]

I was thinking more box features like "dragonriding", "UI rework" or "delves". I dont really care what they do with talents, thats a boring discussion. We know they'll do some sort of talent thing

[zealous sedge]

Delves will be interesting

Already love the changes in 11.1

But let me get more gilded crests no more cap per week

[deep pawn]

Cause they can't keep layering on powers to the base kit. If Midnight's power system is 20% and then TLT's is another 20%, on top of hero talents 20%, base kit is getting really damn weak.

[zealous sedge]

Go up to tier 15

[sullen dawn]

I dont mean specifically delves. Just what brand new features of that level can we expect in midnight beyond housing? Especially if it was made agnostic to expansion

[sullen dawn]

Yes

[zealous sedge]

Yes the base talents would essentially be obsolete

[sullen dawn]

Power discussion is just same old same old. What cool new evergreen features are we getting

[zealous sedge]

Yeah who knows I mean maybe dynamic ground mounts

[sullen dawn]

War mode updates? Dye system for gear? Transmog restriction lifted? Beginning of dynamic ground mounts?

[deep pawn]

I think the main evergreen feature is housing, if there's some other surprise it'll probably just be outdoor difficulty.

War mode is kinda dying as more and more people swap Alliance.

[zealous sedge]

Idk is the manifold actually a subterranean highway we can have races on?

[sullen dawn]

I dont think world tiers will be ready until TLT if theyre only experimenting with it in legion remix

That would be too quick to take lessons and implement evergreen system

[sullen dawn]

Its goblins all the way down lmao

[zealous sedge]

I feel like world tiers would segment the phasing out in the world way too much and wouldn’t make it feel like an MMO tbh

But maybe

[sullen dawn]

Housing os definitely the big one ofc, but Holly said featureS of midnight would blow our socks off

New talents wont blow anyone's socks off

[deep pawn]

I still think it's Playable Naga.

[zealous sedge]

True but Holy kinda has to say that I feel like

[sullen dawn]

Please

[zealous sedge]

Definitely a new class

Please

[sullen dawn]

Just dont make them bipedal

[sullen dawn]

I think thats TLT

[zealous sedge]

Both could be nice but yeah you’re probably night

[deep pawn]

They'll have a bipedal form of some sort just for mounts, cause I doubt they could make everything a sky chariot.

[zealous sedge]

I just want a void knight

[sullen dawn]

Tinker/artifcer. Also massive glyph rework and order halls return (where you get class quests, and unlock glyphs)

Thats my TLT guess

[zealous sedge]

As a shadow priest main need more void stuff

Can I convert my shadow priest to a void Templar

I know that’s a bit of an oxymoron

[deep pawn]

I do hope we get light vs void choices cause I wanna see what they can do with Shadow priest with just a tiny bit of light mixed in haha

[sullen dawn]

Glyphs could potentially do this kf they do a big rework there. Could have "master glyphs" that do big sweeping changes like make paladin void

Just cosmetically ofc

[zealous sedge]

What about archeology but bigger and better as the new outdoor world evergreen system?

[deep pawn]

So far the only void paladin we've ran into is just using the shadow to make her look even brighter a la corona.

[sullen dawn]

Please

And a lore tab (put those lorewalking things there instead of at chromie, as well as collection of all "books" read on account

[deep pawn]

It's possible we could see a full eclipse appearances for when they add paladins to Void Elves.

[sullen dawn]

The armour hints at it

The sun/moon one

Id kill for a lore tab haha

[zealous sedge]

I know they said their would be no new professions for housing stuff but I wouldn’t mind another profession

Idk what it could possibly be though

[sullen dawn]

They didnt specially say that. They said there wouldn't be a housing specific profession. Instead all professions would be used in housing

[zealous sedge]

Unless Arch could be like a real profession

[sullen dawn]

Doesn't discount new professions

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that’s kinda what I meant. Just didn’t word it right

[sullen dawn]

Can still add carpenty/woodworking for e.g It would just need to serve a non housingg purpose as well

[deep pawn]

I don't think we need a new one.

[zealous sedge]

Make herbalism and mining a single gathering profession lol

[deep pawn]

Like inscription and enchanting are already fighting over stuff to make.

[zealous sedge]

That would demolish the wow economy though

[deep pawn]

another wood working profession would just cannibalize more from scribes and enchanter.s

[zealous sedge]

And potentially engineering

[sullen dawn]

Me neither, were just exploring

[deep pawn]

and wow players wouldn't accept the ff14 system where sometimes your caster boots for the tier are made by a woodworker, and the next a leatherworker

[sullen dawn]

Yes any new profession would need to offer NEW value

Not step on toes of existing professions

[rain cave]

I feel like basic furniture stuff shouldn't be profession gated, gives a reason to go do old reps when they ALSO make older reps warbound

but then if you want a magic floating book? sure give that to inscription or enchanting

[zealous sedge]

We should be able to make our own recipes for cooking profession that would be fun

[sullen dawn]

Itll be a mix

Im sure they'll get it right

[zealous sedge]

I’m am very certain that a large swath of furniture will be readily available for meager amounts of gold at launch

So many assets in the bank for them to use

[rain cave]

aye

probably in the different cities

[sullen dawn]

Vendors, professions, achievements, old content, etc..

[zealous sedge]

But I also would like to see some cool profession unique things

[sullen dawn]

Its gonna be coming from everywhere

[zealous sedge]

I’m currently working on getting all professions up to date

[rain cave]

legion remix playing suramar for furniture just seems like too good a lineup to not do

[sullen dawn]

Yeh... too bad I need to wait for a surumar neighbourhood to use it lol

[zealous sedge]

I pray to god some housing profession schematics aren’t rare drops

[rain cave]

why so?

[sullen dawn]

My night borne refuses to live anywhere else. As a high society elf

:p

[rain cave]

just pretend your house door is a portal to your actual house

[sullen dawn]

Thats....a great idea

[zealous sedge]

I think that’s totally within the realm of possibility l

[rain cave]

like howls moving castle, the windows and lighting inside is seperate to the actual outside

[zealous sedge]

People are gonna make escape room and puzzle games with their house

[sullen dawn]

I was gonna do similar witj my dark iron

[rain cave]

I'm already thinking of making my house split dark/light, with the mix in the middle

[sullen dawn]

If i can make a mole machine teleport me from enterence to another room I could give the illusion the house is underground

[zealous sedge]

Can I make the bathroom a portal to a scenic toilet

[sullen dawn]

Skibbidi

[rain cave]

alternatively, a house that is laid out like the cosmology chart with stuff from each area of it in the appropriate spot,

[sullen dawn]

Man

Im never gonna do anything in wow again except hosukgn lol

[zealous sedge]

The possibilities are endless

[sullen dawn]

Just gonna quit raiding and m+ day 1

[zealous sedge]

I’m fully expecting a Microsoft paint style UI for a future housing feature to design certain customizations and symbols

[rain cave]

I fear they won't do that after activison's learned lesson from custom cod skins

[zealous sedge]

That could get weird because people suck though

[zealous sedge]

What happened there

I’m assuming stupid people

[rain cave]

cod players + freedom to paint whatever they wanted on their guns

you do the math

[sullen dawn]

Its so exciting. My only worry is more neighbouhoods are slow to arrive. The only ones im convinced were getting is belf (obviously), nelf (bel ameth was literally set up for this), and goblins (hints in 11.1)

[zealous sedge]

Yeah… no need to say anymore

There only one possible ending to that lolol

[rain cave]

kind of hilarious in some cases but also it was like non stop and just becomes stale lmao

because a lot of people just do it to be dicks

[sullen dawn]

Give someone on the Internet a tool to draw. You're gonna get 90% penises

[zealous sedge]

Yeah the moderation of it would be endless

[zealous sedge]

And the other things which I won’t mention here

[rain cave]

I already know a streamer is going to do a housing competition like the tmog competitions

[sullen dawn]

But yeh belf/nelf neighbourhoods im midnight for sure. Maybeeeeee goblin

[rain cave]

and they're going to walk into a viewers house and it's just... all dicks

[sullen dawn]

Housing in general is streamer paradise

[rain cave]

make a podcast studio in the house lmao

[zealous sedge]

Yeah with the level of customization it’s gonna be hilarious

[sullen dawn]

As long as its not those alt right bro tards haha

[zealous sedge]

I hope we can put NPC’s in the house

[rain cave]

or even that series that was like fishing with (person), could do fun videos where two people do housing challenges, like designing a house based on a prompt

[zealous sedge]

I also need a petting zoo section in my back yard

For the battle pets

[sullen dawn]

Mount stables 😄

[zealous sedge]

Also I don’t think there are any backyard or front yard areas for your house to customize…. Yet

It might be coming

They haven’t talked about exteriors

Maybe that’s the next housing post

[sullen dawn]

Oooh im gonna have a backroom chicken fighting ring

People can place bets

[zealous sedge]

If I can’t mow my damn lawn I’m gonna be disappointed lol

I need some garden gnomes to punt

[sullen dawn]

If you want i can rp the role on my gnome mage haha

[zealous sedge]

I don’t think they would do this because it would break immersion but being able to hoist a flag as part of your exterior would be cool

Like wherever country you’re playing from

[sullen dawn]

When im working ill just go afk in your garden

I even have the mog

[zealous sedge]

Haha amazing

[zealous sedge]

I want to make my house like the burrow in HP

All disjointed

Or I guess Karazhan would be the more equivalent design

[sullen dawn]

Building a mage tower house would be fun

With portals and pocket dimensions

[zealous sedge]

Oh can we get some old WC3 models for said exteriors

Give the Undead building with the big spikes. I forget which one that is.

I think one day inevitably we’ll have some SC2 and Diablo crossover for customization

[sullen dawn]

BFA gave lots of good forsaken stuff

During the warfront

[sullen dawn]

Please no

I like those games but... id rather azeroth be azeroth

[zealous sedge]

Yeah it’ll probably be small stuff tho. I’m not talking exteriors but maybe a small nick nack on the shelf

[sullen dawn]

Ah yeh thars ok

Like wurts leg

[zealous sedge]

Little zergling pet

Although I wanna there already is a Zergling battle pet

[sullen dawn]

Tbf diablo pets are already in game

[zealous sedge]

Could be wrong

[sullen dawn]

I have a few

And theres a diablo mount

Three headed wolf demon

[zealous sedge]

Yeah I think I have lil’ diablo

The three headed wolf is dope

[ember blaze]

it will feel bad to have them removed tho

[sullen dawn]

Yeh i use it on my destruction warlock

The flying is awesome

[zealous sedge]

I’m a chaos agent I just use the random mount button every time

[sullen dawn]

😂

[sullen dawn]

I analy pick the most rp choice mounts per character haha

[upper pasture]

i use the random mount button but i only favorite mounts that came out during the current expansion

[zealous sedge]

If there were like a seriously cool mount for shadow priest that spoke to me I’d do it

But so far I haven’t found something that I’m obsessed with

[sullen dawn]

My panadaren monk uses the stone pig mount like 99% of the time

Probably my favourite mount in the game

[zealous sedge]

Oh… I’ve got mounts in the list from Wrath

[sullen dawn]

Nothing from bfa?

Some nice void and old gods mounts there

[zealous sedge]

I never played BfA really I’m slowly getting through all the old expansion content

I’ll take a look at that

I would say the new horrific visions mount that’s the dragon one would be perfect

[sullen dawn]

Imo BFA is a collectors paradise because so much of it is racially focused

But in general it just has very very strong collection items

[zealous sedge]

But I’m kind of tired with HV but I guess I can grind out more to get the 40k

[upper pasture]

i just gotta 8 mask SW and ill be done D:

[zealous sedge]

I do love how my Ashes of A’lar turns purple with the glyph when I’m on shadow form

[ember blaze]

how about the giant voidwalker

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that one is cool too I have that

[upper pasture]

doing 5 and 4 masks on alts that i'm trying to collect hero/mythic tier makes for alot of extra mementos

[zealous sedge]

There no way to make the favorite mount list unique to character right

[upper pasture]

i think there's an addon but not for base game

[sullen dawn]

Some of these look great in void form

[zealous sedge]

I’m just a mediocre player and HV is frustratingly difficult for me at 5 masks as a cloth wearer. Should probably just gear up my warrior alt and clear it.

So I kinda just gave up. Also a couple of the other mechanics for the void cycle and another mount were buggy so I was like fuck it.

[zealous sedge]

Oh that dragon is dope

[sullen dawn]

Unfortunately its from nyalotha AotC 😦

I forgot my bad

[zealous sedge]

Ahhh

[upper pasture]

yeah it'

[zealous sedge]

All good haha

[upper pasture]

its unobtainable now lol

[zealous sedge]

One day I will get Beledar mount

[upper pasture]

i feel that

[zealous sedge]

That was I like a lot even though I have essentially the same one just different color from vendor

[sullen dawn]

I need the mech mount from s1 of tww

From the dungeon with dagran

[zealous sedge]

I think that only drops on mythic right

[sullen dawn]

But not available until midnight 😦

[upper pasture]

yah

[zealous sedge]

Hopefully it makes a return in s3 in the rotation?

[upper pasture]

probably s3

[sullen dawn]

Hopefully

[zealous sedge]

I still haven’t finished that mount quest where you have to collect 1500 chitin haha

I know people who got it in like the 1st two weeks

[upper pasture]

yeah i just finished it the other day. my friends all grinded it the first week like crazy people

i need to do the bee mount too

[zealous sedge]

There’s also Alunira but the grind man

[upper pasture]

i leveled 65 characters through isle of dorn and i think i only got 6 shards

[zealous sedge]

The bee mount yeah you could hopefully double up and get the loot drop for Alunira and bees at the same time

[upper pasture]

sooooooo

[zealous sedge]

Wow

That’s crazy!

[upper pasture]

one day

[zealous sedge]

I’ve heard elites have better drop chance

[ember blaze]

not a fan of those items not dropping off m+

would be less frustrating

and then ppl would just naturally farm it over time

[zealous sedge]

Fun detected

Can’t kill two birds with one stone sorry

I’m jk but yeah that’s annoying

[upper pasture]

just a few causal runs of follower dungeon city of threads ya know

[zealous sedge]

Thats a good idea

[upper pasture]

it's the best idea

[zealous sedge]

I really wish once you cap renown on all your factions you can use that weekly quest that awards 1500 rep to the individual cartel reps

Oh well

Also I hope in 11.2 there aren’t too many things to buy with resonance crystals I still need a lot to get all the other rewards from Undermine lol.

[upper pasture]

you know you can turn in the chett cards to the goblin faction you chose for the week for 500 extra rep right?

[zealous sedge]

Yes

I knew that but I actually kinda forgot whoops

Thanks for the reminder lol

[deep pawn]

I got tired of the grind

You did not need massive rep grinds for each cartel

Probably the worst design of the season

And then add paragon rewards that are rng

[upper pasture]

That’s not even the grind to be upset about, it’s the miscellaneous mechanica, that stuff is purely RNG

[ember blaze]

i had those randomly get deleted out of my bank 💀

[rain cave]

I'll be honest, I want to like the car but I don't

specifically how annoying it is to mount and dismount

my keybinds only have enough real-estate to comfortably accomodate 1 mount button, but the content in undermine is paced in a way where you're constantly hopping on and off the car

not to mention it turns into a vehicle UI instead of a dynamic flying style overlay onto your abilities, so the dismount button is a seperate thing. Which for me is actually a really annoying keybind because of how vehicles inherit binds

[ember blaze]

just a problem of not being able to use it outside of the place and it being a spell vs an actual mount

frustrating touching a puddle and getting dismounted

[upper pasture]

Well cars don’t normally work under water :p personally I think it’s because they have two versions of the mount one for the undermine zone and one for the raid. Why? Because they didn’t want us to have boosts and horns in the raid, terrible design choice

[ember blaze]

so pointless

going extra mile for random shit like this

[rain cave]

I mean we're all seeing it as testing out dynamic ground mounts

but I think the issue is that it's too niche what they did, not every ground mount can fit into car gameplay

[upper pasture]

I never liked the idea of this mount and I will proudly stand by and say I still hate it

[rain cave]

GW2 had the right idea of tying it to more utility stuff

and map interaction

[ember blaze]

they can certainly speed up ground mounts and add boost/jump spells

[rain cave]

if they somehow implemented some of the "fake" physics of dynamic flying into just a feeling of momentum on a potential dynamic ground mounts implementation, that would probably just make them feel a lot better already

like speed them up, give them a slight turn radius, even less than flying. If we get vertical abilities make sure they feel weighty to press. a dash forward doesn't hurt either, doesn't have to be short cooldown and can go over ledges maybe

like if we had to contend with a bunch of floating islands in midnight from the void kicking up parts of the earth aroudn silvermoon or on karesh, but flying mounts don't work because void invasion/blackhole respectively

they could make some very interactive mobility

just a question of... is that worth to develop? Is it within the scope of what they want for midnight, or are their hands full with other stuff

[ember blaze]

id want a glide ability

big jumps

and a boost

[sullen dawn]

They'll need to bucket thr mounts into families

Each family can have different control mechanics

We might get a couple in midnight (maybe start with horses, wolves and hawkstriders) but I was thinking TLT for a bigger attempt

[deep pawn]

I still feel that if dynamic mounts are to be as much a slog as Drive is to not even waste the time on it

I don't need "realistic acceleration" or drifting or any of that crap.

Just let me get to the combat

[deep pawn]

The miscellaneous I basically don't treat as existing. I generally don't bother with any of the grinds that long. I still think the 4 reps being like multiple renown paths long was just too much

[sullen dawn]

Others enjoy it

Hopefully more and more flying restrictions come into play too. Snow storms in TLT would be sick. No fly weather warning hehe

Drive was really cool

[deep pawn]

Others enjoy it but I saw mostly complaints about the bounciness, the janky acceleration, having to constantly accelerate to keep moving, actually drifting vs jumping can be hard.

Let it exist for niche race content for those who want it, but it should never become the primary mode of transportation

Its the same issue as Torghast, people would rather just play a well designed roguelike than a half assed one in another game. Same as drive, those who want a play a driving simulator or racing game would just play one designed for it and better balanced.

[sullen dawn]

Not specifically drive, but dynamic ground mounts should yes

Unless they make it so you havd to avoid things in the sky when flying

Right now flying removes too much friction

Diminishes world

[deep pawn]

I literally don't care anymore. We've seen their prior attempts at ground only content and it's just not worth designing around some sick purity test on how much time something should take. WoD and Legion's puzzles were boring. Zereth Mortis had even worse. I don't expect Blizzard to hire a team and spend years to make some sort of ground travel that's engaging.

The anti flyers lost and lost hard.

[sullen dawn]

Nah that age is wow is over

Theyre clearly moving towards making the open world the principle focus again

Hamsterwheel runners can cry more

[sullen dawn]

No. Torghast had issues due to the mandatory nature ans the fact they scuffed the actual roguelike part that was active in alpha

Otherwise it was great

[deep pawn]

They're failing so far if that's the case. No one is going to fondly remember the world content of TWW

[tulip sun]

Id love more dynamic ground mounts

[deep pawn]

I'm not against it as side content, but I would vehemently oppose it becoming the main mode of transportation.

[rain cave]

Yeah this is why I think it shouldn't be as mechanically complicated

If you ask just want to run everywhere fine, but it's not that much extra to get there faster

[zealous sedge]

I agree. Drive kinda sucks

[warm topaz]

i personally love it

when you get like, the upgrades

the feeling is completely different, it should have been released that way.

[thin warren]

i think i only changed the engine

[sullen dawn]

It hasn't been actualised in TWW. By TLT we should have transitioned

[little hound]

Seeing as next patch does release in 2 days, i'm suspecting we'll get 11.2 news during thursday/fridayish.

[deep pawn]

Depends

If goal is 8/5 patch likely is revealed Wednesday

If goal is 8/12 the week after

Also, open world will never be the principal over instanced content simply because open world has too many people to have like real competition.

[sullen dawn]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24213950/patch-11-2-reveal-echoes-of-karesh

[warm topaz]

OMG IT'S AWESOME

[lavish raptor]

Wow i cant believe they added hot coffee mode

Thats so daring

[thin warren]

gates of Qiraj? oO

[lavish raptor]

Yeah the Ethereals are actually bug people

[thin warren]

it's nto funny! :p

[ionic terrace]

pog

[ember blaze]

why would it become main

it can simply become an option next to flying

ground mounts serve no purpose outside of places you cant fly in

[deep pawn]

the people who want dynamic ground mounts this badly want it to replace flying because "flying makes game easy"

[ember blaze]

so basically instances

idc about that

i just want ground mounts to be an option

[deep pawn]

As in travel?

[ember blaze]

yes

if i can drive in the outer world with fun ground mount id probably do it sometimes

[sullen dawn]

Especially if they restrict flying

To be only usable in certain places

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24210000/patch-11-2-reveal-rise-of-the-mudskipper

[deep pawn]

hah, mdi channel ping making me think they were announcing the next season dates of competition

[sullen dawn]

What was it?

[deep pawn]

just the end of season survey

[silent urchin]

oh hey the last minute PTR patch added region specific dates for the bonus xp event returning

I guess that's actually real

week of july 14th, same duration as before (4 weeks)

[upper pasture]

more character slots when tho

tbh i just want more races and class mixes

[sullen dawn]

Meanwhile in D4 💀

[ember blaze]

I just want more unique races 🙊

[glass flicker]

I just want more customization. We got enough races and classes.

[ember blaze]

i mean, it seems to all be there, they just have to flip a switch dont they

do void elfs have all the blood elf options? 🤔

[lavish raptor]

they have skins and hairs

[ember blaze]

then dracthyr human/blood elf, cant they just enable the hair on the regular models

surely it's that simple since its the same model

[lavish raptor]

might be wonky w/ horns

[ember blaze]

what isnt wonky in this 20 year old game 💀

but yeah seems like a lot of options are just kept artifically low

[glass flicker]

It's not that simple. You seen what happened with the half-elf ears on humans?

They clip through almost goddamn everything.

[ember blaze]

? all the elf ears do

just like horns

[glass flicker]

Few clip through hair.

Like, if you're not nailing the ears and hair on your elf races, just pay the art team more.

Don't you just love corporations?

[ember blaze]

clipping is the least of what i care about when everything in this game clips through everything

[deep pawn]

I mean that makes sense, Blizzard doesn't start events on Thursday in NA and EU lol.

So it does end before the earliest s3 start day of the week of Aug 12

[ember blaze]

news tomorrow surely 🙏

keep us busy from that downtime

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[zealous sedge]

If news this week I’m thinking Wednesday

Apparently all patch announcements in TWW have been on a Wednesday though I have not confirmed this independently.

[rain cave]

I mean, don't ears do that anyway?

[deep pawn]

I mean elf ears and eyebrows almost always clip

[sullen dawn]

I mean I mean

[rain cave]

In real life though, hair is usually covering your ears

Unless you tuck it over or tie it back

[deep pawn]

Well talk to Blizzard cause to them elf hair is stronger than steel.

[sullen dawn]

We need some jet fuel

[glass flicker]

Yes and I blame George.

Ain't this guy the greatest?

[sullen dawn]

Honestly, as shit as he was, hes been a better villain than xal this expansion

Just slurping things up and running away

[glass flicker]

I disagree. But I liked him better for the memes.

[sullen dawn]

Xal obviously had better build up but shes a completely meme now

[glass flicker]

"All according to my master plan!" has become something everyone in my guild says when George is brought up.

[sullen dawn]

Xal needs to stop behaving like an elf lol

[glass flicker]

Xal'atath tries too hard to be Emet-Selch.

[sullen dawn]

I dont know who that is :p

Emmet?

[glass flicker]

"I have risen from the ashes of countless empires. I have survived ordeals you cannot comprehend."

Sounds a lot to me like...

https://youtu.be/PHEsWh1Opj8?si=m7IdBeU_vPmrGzIy

[sullen dawn]

Xal is just so non threatening

[sullen dawn]

Oh FF gross ok

I guess blizz does take inspiration from there tho

[glass flicker]

Just watch it and tell me.

[sullen dawn]

I cant im allergic to weeb stuff

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-pam-beesly-theyre-the-same-picture-the-same-picture-they-are-the-same-picture-gif-20830121

[sullen dawn]

But i believe you

[glass flicker]

WoW is literally 20% more weeby than it right now.

[sullen dawn]

And i hate it

Need to go back to early bfa moments like old soldier

[glass flicker]

Since you won't watch it, I'll quote Emet-Selch directly.

"Look at me! I have lived a thousand, thousand of your lives. I have broken bread with you. Fought with you. Grown ill, grown old, sired children, and yes. Welcomed death's sweet embrace."

It's literally the same "I'm too old for this shit" monologue.

Except Emet-Selch does it better. Know why? Because he's charismatic and allows himself to be fun, while Xal'atath just tries.

[sullen dawn]

Im not sure primordial void creatures should be "fun"

But they should at least be competent and not behave like an antsy elf

[glass flicker]

All villains should be fun, it's literally in their code. If a villain is just a person you hate, then that makes them stale.

[sullen dawn]

No

Context dependent

Hitler wasnt fun

[glass flicker]

And I'm not talking about "look at me trip down the stairs!" fun. Though Emet-Selch has a scene like that.

[glass flicker]

Let's not bring real life villains into this.

[sullen dawn]

Sure im just using an exteme

Aman thul sure as hell isnt "fun"

Hes the literal fun police

Do you mean interesting?

Or engaging?

[glass flicker]

But, like I was saying. A villain should be fun. Because otherwise, they're a villain of the week that gets offed and they become forgettable. Look at Onyxia vs Sinestra for a lack of better examples.

[sullen dawn]

I think fun is the wrong word

See Andor recently? Brilliant villain was Dedra Meero. Least fun person in the galaxy

[glass flicker]

Onyxia is super fun. She is arrogant, she is manipulative, she isn't afraid to get her hands dirty. What has Xal'atath done that directly messes with us other than blowing up Dalaran and showing up in M+ dungeons?

[sullen dawn]

Top tier written villain

[sullen dawn]

I agree with everything after "onyxia is super fun". Fun just isnt getting your point across

I think you mean engaging

Because yes xal is a try hard mustache twirler, but its not due to lack of being "fun"

[glass flicker]

I like Xal'atath, but I hate how she's written like she's Gotham Knights Jason Todd, but without the melodrama.

[sullen dawn]

I agree

But adding the melodrama would make her worse

Save that for a character like Azshara

The queen of drama

Xal is an ancient void creature, she should be terrifying

Give us chills

[glass flicker]

I disagree. I think Xal'atath can absolutely do dramatic, through psychological horror. Show us what the Void has in store for us. Don't tell us. Don't tell us how old you are, boomer.

[glass flicker]

This.

[sullen dawn]

I think were mostly in agreement. Were just hung up on word choice hehe

Im not saying no villains should be fun

But its not a core stable

The important thing is they have layers

And are consistent

[glass flicker]

You and I have very different definitions of "fun."
To me, fun means "alright, you got my eyes wide and my blood pressure rising."

[sullen dawn]

Engaging

Fun is joyous

Silly etc..

[glass flicker]

Xal'atath did that at the start of the expansion. She blew up Dalaran and "killed" a beloved fan favorite. Peak introduction, if you ask me.

After that, it's been in freefall.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh and then she became a wet lemon

[glass flicker]

I think Xal'atath could do with less Worf Effect to show how strong she is. We already know. What she needs is a display of absolute destruction while angery. Dalaran? She did that while calm, and using the Dark Heart. Show us what she is capable of by herself when she lets loose.

The Worf Effect basically just has her beat someone we know is strong with little effort
Cough Khadgar
But it was so rushed that it didn't even matter. It makes her look weak.

[little hound]

Not every villain has to be "Fun". A good Villain in my book:

Well Established Lore.
Causing Events that affect many people / Poses an Actual threat over time.
Survives more than 1 Patch.
Has a good scheme/Plotline.
Doesn't have too many layers of Plot Armor.

[glass flicker]

I kindly direct you again to Emet-Selch for a fun villain done right.

[little hound]

Who's that?

[little hound]

Then again, i don't care if a Villain is FUN Or Not. I care if the Villain is Portrayed as an actual villain.

If I wanted a "Fun" Villain, i'd even accept Jevil from Deltarune.

[glass flicker]

Main villain of FFXIV Shadowbringers.

[little hound]

Sorry to say, but i'm a stoic hater of Final Weebtasy, so any reference from there won't really be understood by me.

Tried the Trial 1-2 times, regreted it strongly.

[glass flicker]

Y'all never even played it, and you call it a weeb game. That's the most hilarious part.

[little hound]

Bold of you to assume, least I did try it 2 times.

[glass flicker]

So, to like level 35? Old trial?

[little hound]

Last year.

[glass flicker]

Right. And how far did you get?

[little hound]

Far enough to realise:

Anime-Styled characters.
People using Mods to transmog maid outfits / Tuxedos.
Dancing in packs, femboy dressing, Catgirls/boys.

Yeah, totally not weebish at all, forgive me.

I think the only good feedback I have of FFXIV Is the boss encounters and soundtracks, that's basically the only thing i liked.

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-dance-vulpera-what-does-the-fox-say-wow-character-dancing-gif-27494900

But FFXIV is the weeb furry game.

[little hound]

I didn't say WoW didn't have furries, now did i?

Every single MMO Has Furries / Weebs.

GW2 has Massive Worgen too.

I just said that FFXIV Is the one i hate the most.

https://tenor.com/view/jailer-vulpera-jailer-vulpera-vulpera-facefuck-gif-22470276

[tropic trail]

And to think that I once requested to Blizzard vulpera as allied race 💀

[little hound]

[tropic trail]

But at that time i didn’t even know about any of this would be possible 👀

[little hound]

I just want Ethereals as a Playable race in 11.2 honestly. Been craving them since i saw them years ago in TBC.

[tropic trail]

Yea i want them too

[little hound]

And with so many of their models being reworked and made for 11.1? I really hope so.

One of the latest Player Housing threads even hinted "Say If you were an Ethereal, you would want Ethereal decor".

[sullen dawn]

Love you

A man of taste

[little hound]

I'm high on copium rn, and hopefully we'll get 11.2 news at the end of this week once 11.1.7 releases.

[little hound]

Gay'n Single 😉

[sullen dawn]

Hopefully before my surgery on Friday 💀

[sullen dawn]

Damn wish I was gay now

[tropic trail]

This Wednesday should be new patch no?

[little hound]

Lmfao

[little hound]

Yeah. The Legacy of Arathor stuff.

(Ngl only part of this mini-patch i want is the Corsair Dragon mount, and Anniversary Armor recolors)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/663372870214221825/1379467349224067142/image.png?ex=685224d5&is=6850d355&hm=d79a2e59ae607495a91fd90b4829bdbe7bea0ad0eefac3766880a9447f6271d0&

[sullen dawn]

11.1.5 and 11.17 are pretty nothingburger for me. Weird as I loved HV in BFA and was excited for them but was away and now nightreign is taking my time

[tropic trail]

Nice so you are in US and already got it

[sullen dawn]

So just on the 11.2 waiting list

[little hound]

I'm EU.

[little hound]

Finished Nightreign already sadly, i do hope they'll add more challenges.

That's coming from me, someone who barely touched Elden Ring and hasn't touched any other soulslike games.

[sullen dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/europe-flag-gif-26776815

[sullen dawn]

DLC is coming

[little hound]

I have a taste for Helldivers 2 also, but i feel like every armor is the same, and weapons don't really change alot either.

[sullen dawn]

Probably after summer. Id imagine a few more classes and nightlords, maybe some map shifting earth modifiers

[little hound]

Only Shifting Earth modifier i like is the volcano.
City is a maze and meh.
Snow Mountain is tasteless.
And Scarlet Forest is just.. Covid Air.

[sullen dawn]

Once December comes wow housing will take over my life

[sullen dawn]

The forest was disappointingly easy

[tropic trail]

Hopefully they will be affordable

[sullen dawn]

Can always get a mortgage

[tropic trail]

Not like 1 miln gold for house

[sullen dawn]

I think houses are free

[little hound]

The house will be free.

[sullen dawn]

Or at least the plot is

[little hound]

I do hope we'll get an option to pay for other interior sizes, or house appearances.

[tropic trail]

Damn this seems like a paradise a free house

[sullen dawn]

Different exteriors will be different prices prob

[little hound]

THe inside alone is huge.

[tropic trail]

😂

[little hound]

I've got 17 Mill saved in my Warband bank. Let me pay to make it look like a proper Nobleman's House.

[sullen dawn]

See capitalism! Social housing is a good thing :p

[little hound]

Me'n squad already made a Community amongst ourselves to make a neighbourhood

We named it Sesame Street.

[sullen dawn]

Me and friend need to find a neighbourhood

Since were only 2 we don't wanna make a private one ourselves

[little hound]

I thought about trying a public neighbourhood.

But we figured, we all like decorating and having fun, might as well make it a private group thing.

[tropic trail]

As long as i benefit 😅

[sullen dawn]

Ofc its socialism, we all benefit

[lavish raptor]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/estimated-dps-loss-with-highlight-assist-and-one-button-rotation-in-patch-11-1-7-377287#comments
💀

[lone mantle]

Single-Button Assistant: About ~26% DPS Loss. No, thank you! I would rather click with my mouse button!

[lavish raptor]

The -65% for prot paladin even though they have like 4-5 dps buttons max 💀

Im surprised that fwar is only -20% considering how far down the list whirlwind is. They're probably only looking at max level play though.

[zealous sedge]

Instead of increasing GCD they should just have a standard damage reduction debuff and peg it at like -10%. Every time you press the button the debuff timer resets to 5 Minutes or something.

[sullen dawn]

Destro warlock only 7% loss

From sims

[upper pasture]

These estimates are weird because we know the people using obr aren’t pressing their keys optimally it the first place so in most cases it could be a dps increase for some if not most players looking to use it

Regardless I can’t wait to see videos of players clearing 20s with only OBR

[lavish raptor]

wonder if its still broken for certain classes at low level

[upper pasture]

It’s probably one of those things that “works best at max level”

[lavish raptor]

Yeah figures

Itll be confusing for anyone starting their DK/DH fresh but ehh

[upper pasture]

I think the people who OBR is for probably aren’t thinking too much about it all that much.

[sullen dawn]

Im seeing cutting edge mythic raiders reallt angry about this

(I personally dont care. The lower the barriers of entry the better)

[lavish raptor]

The people who want to be tryhard AND lazy already have GSE so im not sure why the top-tier players are mad

[ember blaze]

i mean a better weeb example are the races in ff14 since theyre just humans with some animal features

[rain cave]

Tbf I feel like it shouldn't incur any penalty other than it isn't smart

It knows if you're moving, it knows when you get a proc

But it doesn't know when to Aoe, it doesn't know cooldowns

It doesn't know about conserving some resources because a cooldown is coming up

[lavish raptor]

I think it sort of knows when to AOE but not reliably

[upper pasture]

Yeah well, “those” players usually are upset about anything. I love the fact that my wife can have a better time playing now that she can just click one button even if it’s not optimal, it’s still gonna be better than what she could do before

[lavish raptor]

Ive seen it swap to Chain Lightning when i was messing with it on my resto shaman

[rain cave]

Honestly the biggest feature of this they should just let us play with is the same key doing different things in different contexts

[upper pasture]

It’s not gonna instantly make her a 3k Rio player

[rain cave]

Like if moving and I press fireball I do scorch instead, that just saves buttons

[silent urchin]

It's gonna be a lot more than 20% loss if you're not using cooldowns etc around an encounter. The sims still assume a degree of near-perfect play outside of the rotation

[ember blaze]

the better you make it, the better it gets for more players

[rain cave]

I also saw mention of people saying there will be builds optimised around this

So the dps loss could be not as much with certain builds

[upper pasture]

Of course there will be, people will try and optimize anything

[ember blaze]

a bot auto playing for you will play better than you. It needs a penalty

[lavish raptor]

Yeah it's a double edged sword. You don't want it to be too good because people will be Mad but it has to be sufficient for like....2-3 keys at least

[rain cave]

Not true

Because its not a bot

[lavish raptor]

Yeah its a button you spam

[rain cave]

It only knows that usually spells are cast in a certain order

[ember blaze]

you get what im trying to say

[rain cave]

But like for example, warlocks have their conflag chaos bolt windows

It won't know that

[ember blaze]

If you just snashed a button, and it played perfectly, a human wont beat that

[lavish raptor]

If people want to single-button more complicated rotations then there's GSE

[upper pasture]

I think the penalty is fine because this isn’t something that geared for the top end, people who are using this barely do higher keys or harder roads

[rain cave]

I think for the 1 button thing sure penalty is OK

But I also thing it would be nice to have some of its functionality put into macros

And that system made easier

[upper pasture]

I think the 30%(?) GDC is rough but /shrug

[lavish raptor]

The built-in single button rotation is for Weekend-Player Bob who's end game content is LFR

[ember blaze]

i think some specs ignore it

[lavish raptor]

I noticed Enchancement was very snappy with the OBR

[upper pasture]

But again in most cases the people using this it will be a dps increase Aslong as they are still using personal CDs

[ember blaze]

a lot of people in my casual guild will get a dps increase out of it

(most of them)

[upper pasture]

Some of my guild mates joke that we will see a dps increase in tomorrow reclear lol

[ember blaze]

these guys completely freeze and afk with any boss mechanic

or just have no idea how to play

so they do tank dmg

[upper pasture]

Yup, we’ve got a few like that too or people who just refuse to do “optional” mechanics

Or someone who literally soaks with the opposite group literally every week no matter what he is told

[ember blaze]

I had to teach one of them to enter eclipse on boomie

they thought you did not cast wrath if youre elune spec

💀

[upper pasture]

“That’s just my build bro”

[lavish raptor]

Weekend Bob can use WoW's OSR. Sweaty Sloth who does +12 keys but wants a one button rotation can download addons that have had support for years. Elite Elroy can carry on as normal without much incident.

[ember blaze]

great roleplay but 💀

[lavish raptor]

Newbie Norm though? He might be bewildered on why the button doesn't always work while leveling his first/second/third toon.

[upper pasture]

Honestly I’m interested in seeing if OBR can help me simplify my alt delve runs for the week

[lavish raptor]

Im glad it doesnt have major CDs though

Could you imagine if BL was on there

[upper pasture]

That would be the biggest troll move

[lavish raptor]

I have already had people stick it on a one-button macro before OSR

Usually in LFR

We'd be killing a pack of non-elite mobs and suddenly grow huge

[ember blaze]

speaking of delves, the belt is gonna trivialize them even more isnt it

i shoulda waited for belt before doing more of the delve achieves

[lavish raptor]

I feel like Disc Priest is the easiest healer class for soloing tier11s

You can shield yourself and MC op mobs. But yeah maybe jit would have been even easier w/ belt.

[upper pasture]

Yes and no, overcharged delves might mess up some achievements? Or make them “harder” hard to say really

The belt will definitely help tho

[ember blaze]

all i really got left is to run a tank alt for the tank delver one

[sullen dawn]

I agree with you

[ember blaze]

but thats just a 4 so

[sullen dawn]

Elitist jerks have no place in modern wow

[upper pasture]

All delves as a tank ona 4?

[ember blaze]

yeah

[lavish raptor]

Doesnt the next step unlock after that

For all 8s

[upper pasture]

You know there’s another one for 8s and 11s

[ember blaze]

what the

i had no idea

[lavish raptor]

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

[upper pasture]

Then all roles 4s and all roles 8s but no all roles 11s

[ember blaze]

no all roles 11?

[upper pasture]

Nope idk why lol

[ember blaze]

ok good

[upper pasture]

But there’s individual ones for each of the roles to clear 11s

[ember blaze]

theyre still trivial but still take time

[upper pasture]

But not a combo one so you will still “need” to do it if you want all the delve achievements

[ember blaze]

now ure confusing me

[upper pasture]

There is a healer 11 tank 11 and dps 11 but no all roles achievement

[ember blaze]

oh ok i understand now

[upper pasture]

Like how you see the do all delves at 4 on tank there an 11 one too

But there is also a do all 4/8s on all roles as well

But no 11 one for the combo achievement

[lavish raptor]

See

[thin warren]

info patch .2 when???

[upper pasture]

Probably tomorrow

[thin warren]

hopefully!

[little hound]

Please give 11.2 Reveal tomorrow or Thursday.

[dense plover]

in what world can you not remember undermine?

[little hound]

I'm so parched of this content draught, i'm being compared to my grandma. And she's in a jar.

[dense plover]

this isnt a content drought

this content has lasted as long as normal

[little hound]

My bad: Timegated Content.

[dense plover]

they did this last expac too

and on a longer timescale

with less content

this is more content rich - people are just greedy

[little hound]

Valid.

https://tenor.com/view/cursed-ohio-meme-ayy-lmao-meme-kitty-gif-11740737186806017849

[dense plover]

also its summer

which doesnt help

[little hound]

Explains why i feel dried out, I hate heat

[dense plover]

less games come out during summer

so people fall back on stuff like wow and burn out hard

[little hound]

I just want a sexy Ethereal Raid for 11.2

And COPING Hard for Ethereal Allied race.

Am i allowed to dream of this, Peach. Please let me dream of it.

[dense plover]

i dont think ethereals are coming until midnight

i still fully believe 11.2 is rootlands

otherwise we will see no resolution to the harronir

theyre not relevant much beyond this expac

ethereals play into 11.2

i could see them plundering the rootlands as prep to corrupt the sunwell, which would lead to 12.0

[vast remnant]

In Faerin quest Is it necessary to do it with one Alliance character and another Horde character for both titles and tabards?

[little hound]

I'm somewhat doubint we'll get much of a Rootlands, especially with that post-cinematic K'aresh scene, and the focus on the Dark Heart in this expac.

Best bet, maybe some Harronir wrap-up story in 11.2.7

[lavish raptor]

heres hoping staring at purple space fart for five seconds in a cutscene doesnt actually divert the last large patch to void space opera

[elfin eagle]

i think to me the burnout is that theres a lack of connection to anything

undermine is wonderful, but it feels like a sidequest, which makes it kind of feel irrelvent

like the entire time its like "ok this is fun but wheres the real story" and we're all just kind of waiting for things to pick up steam

[thin warren]

we fought the goblin that helped Xalatath

[lavish raptor]

And the goblin who helped Xal'atath fucked up and gave it to an ethereal

Those are significant plot points

The main reason why we do the raid is "well we are here anyway....and we hate the fat fuck"

[upper pasture]

Significant? Sure. When it’s like 30 seconds of the “main plot” meh. Personally I didn’t like undermine but I knew I wouldn’t from the get go

[thin warren]

we are helping Gaslowe

[upper pasture]

Not my favorite flavor of green

[thin warren]

what is your favorite flavor of green then? 😛

[upper pasture]

Fel and demons

[lavish raptor]

Im a huge goblin stannie

[thin warren]

ahah 😄

i liked undermine

[ember blaze]

how?

the main character speaks directly to azeroth

they live deeper in the ground too

so like, those things are even relevant for TLT

[lavish raptor]

We dont normally spend entire patch contents in older zones tho