beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

oh that's a cool character creation

[thin warren]

Maybe #no-wow-discussion is a better channel

[deep pawn]

right

[sullen dawn]

Xbox and PC unification

Wow on cknsole next gen

[lavish raptor]

Would explain why they implemented one button macro

[sullen dawn]

Well currently I play wow on controller just fine

(Mythix raider/glad)

[zealous sedge]

I still think console wow will be different servers and they start with classic

[silent urchin]

I don't think they're likely to do a separate release. They might bake in some of consoleport or something

It's already technically playable on handhelds like that

[zealous sedge]

Idk if we’re getting 11.2

[deep pawn]

25th it is I guess

[thin warren]

sad

[zealous sedge]

Oh well

[upper pasture]

Honestly, what a nice birthday present that will be….i guess lol

Sadly we didn’t get anything today

[deep pawn]

maybe PC game show but I doubt it

They could drop a wowcast though

[harsh mason]

As I wrote earlier, I sincerely do not understand why an announcement is expected BEFORE the release of 11.1.7. Patches are always (almost always) announced after the patch is released.

[autumn relic]

Patch 11.1 was also presented before what was to come, before 11.0.7 came out.

[silent urchin]

11.1 was revealed on november 13th, 11.0.7 released on december 17th

[deep pawn]

major patches are often announced earlier

[harsh mason]

No

[deep pawn]

yes they are lol

[zealous sedge]

Classic

Blizz was like “yeah we’re not Xbox”

[upper pasture]

Yeah main patch can usually be announced before a minor patch. Especially when the content in the minor has little to no importance on the overall story

[deep pawn]

10.2 ptr was live 2 days after 10.1.7 but I can't find when it was actually announced.

[upper pasture]

Like sure we are getting some stuff in 11.1.7 but like none of it matters too much to the main story

[deep pawn]

okay, so 10.2 was announced the day after 10.1.7 went live and the ptr was the day after that.

so 11.1 and 10.1 were announced before their preceding patches, and of course expansions always are

so 1 day after the x.7 is our latest reveal since DF

[rain cave]

welcome havoc main

[sullen dawn]

Nope. Play all specs except some of the healers, dh tank, and feral druid

Shoulder buttons are modifiers giving you like 60 button bindings (many more via the keyring). I suck sk bad when I try with kb and m now

[rain cave]

how do you target things?

[sullen dawn]

Dark souls style

(R3)

There's also soft target for controllers that blizz added as an option but I dont like it

Too sensitive

[rain cave]

yeah but doesn't that just lock onto a random target near you?

how would you go about quickly switching to a priority target in a group of mobs

[sullen dawn]

No its pretty good now with scan

[rain cave]

it's already hard as it is with mouse and keyboard

I struggle a lot to click a specific mob to interrupt when there's a big pull

[sullen dawn]

Like it hits shifts to prio mob automatically

[rain cave]

because the nameplates are constantly shuffling and moving, and are just generally a pain to click

[sullen dawn]

Or else the one youre looking at as other option

[rain cave]

how so?

[sullen dawn]

Yep but you dont need to click them here

[sullen dawn]

Dont know how it works tbh

[rain cave]

addons to retarget seem a bit iffy

especially going forward with their policy

[sullen dawn]

But it never targets minions/totems/lesser mibs etc.. if elites present for e.g.

There's also soft targeting mode but I have that too hectic

[rain cave]

you know how shadow crash has 2 versions, one that's unit target and one that's ground target?

[sullen dawn]

Yeh. You can make a macro

[rain cave]

I wonder if blizz should do that for more spells and interrupts, but where there's a version that just makes an interrupt target whatever is interruptable nearby

[sullen dawn]

Cast at self or reticle

[rain cave]

you can't do those

anymore

it's a talent option for shadow crash

but they should either enable it for macros or just add that functionality to more spells and maybe even expand it

[sullen dawn]

Execution sentence works for mw

Rarely play SP tbh

One of the few casters I couldnt get into

[rain cave]

well, you can still do a macro to "cast at reticle" for your mouse

but I mean how shadow crash's alt version literally is a unit target

you cast it on a target and it goes to them

[sullen dawn]

Ah

[rain cave]

I think a lot of things deserve that treatment if they want targeting to be easier for potential consoles

like flamestrike

[sullen dawn]

I have two execution sentences keyboard for e.g. though

Flamestrike is fine on controller

[rain cave]

how?

[sullen dawn]

Works same as execution sentence

[rain cave]

how are you doing the reticle cast

since I imagine you don't have a mouse cursor lmao

[sullen dawn]

Can cast at feet, target, or reticle

[rain cave]

yeah but how are you hovering over the target

[sullen dawn]

The reticle triggers on cast if using non macro version

You can move the reticle on controller. Its surprisingly smooth

[rain cave]

seems a bit iffy for faster play though

[sullen dawn]

Sub 0.5s diff if used to it imo

But I've been playing exclusively on controller since legion

So defo built up some solid muscle memory haha

[zealous sedge]

I think we will get some news this week

[autumn relic]

i hope so

[deep pawn]

Blizzard did get all their 11.1.7 previews out of the way last week

[zealous sedge]

I think it makes sense. Unless they have something hidden in 11.1.7 we don’t know about yet that leads directly into 11.2 but that’s highly unlikely since nothing has been data mined.

[deep pawn]

I've been so bored of this patch I'm playing OW while being 1 key away from unlocking resilient haha

[upper pasture]

1 key away from 3k D: had a mage throw a workshop in the last area 😦

[deep pawn]

oof

I'm a bit further from 3k, need like 50-60 score after my 12 TOP

I should just get it done

but ugh I don't like keys this season

[upper pasture]

we had 9 and a half mins then somehow we had 3 mins at the boss but rip

[deep pawn]

I just need to know where we're going in 2 months

I think I'd be less mad at this season if there wasn't stuff like the raid renown I'm still not done with

[zealous sedge]

Raid renown should have been 15 levels

[upper pasture]

only 5 more weeks XD

[zealous sedge]

But I appreciate the raid rep. Haven’t had that in a long time. I hope it continues

Maybe just slim it down

[deep pawn]

19 weeks in a 23 week season is hell naw

[zealous sedge]

Yeah

[upper pasture]

i'd hate it less if it was less gated. one level a week sucks and it sucks even more that after the "halfway" ppoint of the season they didn't uncap it

[zealous sedge]

I missed a couple weeks so I’m actually at 13

I need to do a couple LFR runs to catchup

[zealous sedge]

Yeah 100%

[upper pasture]

fun fact you can only get rep once per boss per week

[zealous sedge]

Oh shit I thought it was per difficulty

Damn

[upper pasture]

so you can only get 2 levels a week or something maybe more if you get the side dudes

[zealous sedge]

Damn rip

Oh well atleast we still have 10 weeks til 11.2

[silent urchin]

I think there's exactly 2 levels if you get everything

[deep pawn]

I just wanna see their dps meter preview

it better be pretty chunky

At least it sounds like the dps meter is next

[zealous sedge]

I wonder what new campsites we will get

Also I assume meta achieve will come in 11.2? Or is that usually the .2.5 patch

[upper pasture]

we got a meta achievement for TWW already

in 11.0.7

or whenever it was givin

[silent urchin]

We've got lots of little metas, we'll get a big one that requires all the little ones at some point, I guess

Taivan came in 10.2.6, so I guess expect that in 11.2.7?

[rain cave]

what even is the point of the duos thing I just played my first one

[silent urchin]

something to press buttons doing

[rain cave]

I do not fully understand it

I just walked in killed some.. fake palm trees? and then killed some bosses

[upper pasture]

unlock the score for the week and stop

[rain cave]

and got some low ilvl bracers

[upper pasture]

there's a mount and toy after X weeks

[silent urchin]

There's some power ups and stuff that are meant to change up combat a bit

[rain cave]

is any of this communicated in-game

[upper pasture]

the quests

[silent urchin]

but it's extremely unsatisfying due to low ilvl scaling and terrible NPC help

[rain cave]

I accepted a quest that told me to go to undermine but somehow I completed half of the requirements from playing a duos queue

[silent urchin]

I think they really wanted you to do it in groups but they didn't add matchmaking and it never even tells you that's a good idea

[deep pawn]

duos is fine but uninspired

[rain cave]

I've not had anything communicated to me via a quest yet ;P

I just assumed the button to queue was the button to queue, it wasn't told to me

no idea what the rewards are

[zealous sedge]

Oh thought that was like a mini 11.0 meta achievement

I’m gonna be annoyed if we have to have exalted cartel reps for the expansion meta

I don’t think we do based off the undermine “meta”

[deep pawn]

there's mini metas per patch

DF just added them all at once

kinda surprised undermine didn't have one

unless they make it require overcharged delves

[silent urchin]

the galagio campground was kinda one

undermine was kinda light on achievements in general I guess

[deep pawn]

well for example a bunch of zone metas in DF gave mounts

Siren Isle gave a mount

I guess the paragon mounts are supposed to be it for Undermine

or I guess the campsite is notable

the expansion of the choices.

I don't even know what the meta mount this expansion could be

Can't be another mech suit recolor lol

[upper pasture]

it's gonna be a void taivan

[zealous sedge]

Maybe a recolor of Alunira

I hope it’s not a mechanical though

Or nerubian or goblin

Needs to be separate

[deep pawn]

its supposed to be something representative of the whole expansion, Jani and Taivan are good examples. the SL one is a bit more abstract but still fits

I just don't know what would represent all of TWW

Unless it's giant Xal'atath feet.

[rain cave]

captured nerubian mount with arathi armour?

combine the buggy void look with the imperial arathi light fire

[deep pawn]

nah. doubt it'll be something covered by arachnophobia mode

[rain cave]

doesn't have to be

can be one of the more armoured types

[rain cave]

like this one

[deep pawn]

eh, nah, that still won't define this expansion especially if we go to K'aresh

[upper pasture]

i don't really think taivan really encompassed the whole expansion he was just a dog model from the second zone

[deep pawn]

he was fan requested

nothing this expansion has reached that level

[silent urchin]

mudskipper mount

[deep pawn]

maybe

[warm topaz]

also the duck

we don't have a duck mount yet

[sullen dawn]

[deep pawn]

I just can't believe this patch has 2 more months

It can't just be the story that makes it feel stale.

[novel zodiac]

its the content

visions are recycled

dastarly duos or whatever are shit

there's nothing to actually do that's worth your time

[deep pawn]

Not like dreamsurges were worth my time

[upper pasture]

this patch doesn't have 2 more months we get 11.1.7 in like 2 weeks?

less than 2 weeks

[deep pawn]

By patch I mean major patch

the minors don't matter

[upper pasture]

"to you"

[deep pawn]

Most people equate seasons and patch.

This is the Undermine patch still

No one refers to the smaller ones except if they're amazing like doti

[upper pasture]

just say season. "I can't believe this season still has 2 more months"

[deep pawn]

being pedantic there but ok.

[upper pasture]

the minor patches have been getting more and more content for awhile now. it's unfair to basically write them off as nothing

and you aren't?

[deep pawn]

What content? The only truly new thing is Nightfall and that's just another fill a bar get catchup loot

[upper pasture]

lorewalking, arathor quests, new BfA timewalking. overcharged delves

diablo event

this patch was what, nightfall/winds of mysterious fortune/HV/DD.

[deep pawn]

Diablo event is reused, Timewalking I wish was relevant for anyone who does any type of content above bare minimum. No one is gonna be that hyped to be doing BfA for blue gear lol

Especially after we've done so much in m+

[pulsar minnow]

i gotta agree. lorewalking adds like one extra part to a story that already exists. timewalking is just... timewalking. it's also reused stuff. overcharged delves are just a new affix onto delves which everyone's already run to death. the arathor stuff is cool though

[upper pasture]

it's great that you think this stuff is for one specific type of player

[deep pawn]

TW has sucked for expansions

5 dungeons that are slogs for champ gear?

and they're making them LONGER?

[upper pasture]

all the new mogs that haven't been available, the new mount?

[deep pawn]

which great, if you feel the need to collect everything just to collect it, you're welcome to grind badges in rather dull content.

I feel like the patch content this expansion could have been so much better.

[upper pasture]

that's my whole point, you can't just write off "content" because you don't like it

i feel like you feel that way about 90% of what blizzard does

[rain cave]

yeah but lehr you also have to realize that a lot of people choose to engage in content like mount collecting, transmog stuff, etc as a supplement to normal gameplay

it won't keep all those people subbed

[upper pasture]

it IS gameplay

it's not ALL of gameplay

but it IS a form of gameplay

[rain cave]

the difference is it's not as engaging

[upper pasture]

"to you"

[rain cave]

no objectively it isn't

you're not exactly stressing over your rotation if you're running ICC to farm invincible, for example

it is something a lot of people do during the downtime between doing other things

also because people like to share their mount collection

it's a social thing as well

[upper pasture]

your comparing decades old content over new content. you know you can farm current content too, right?

[rain cave]

and if there's not a big main piece of content for many people to plug into then the side activites lose some interest as well

you know what I mean though lehr

[deep pawn]

the grinds they've added in 11.2 are just too long

[rain cave]

there's no need to be facetious

[deep pawn]

I can't bring myself to care about the reps

[upper pasture]

"is grinding old content brain dead?" yes of course.

can the same be said if you were to say idk get the pvp glad mogs for this season?

[rain cave]

that's different

because you're doing PVP

[upper pasture]

it's ALSO collecting

[rain cave]

the doing the content is primary, the transmog is secondary

[upper pasture]

not foreveryone

[rain cave]

you can do it FOR the transmog sure, but there is still a heavy engagement

you are being challenged mentally and have to focus on some content that has substance to it

mechanically

[upper pasture]

yes the same can be said for HV too

and t11 delves for those mogs

[rain cave]

yeah horrific visions are the more interesting thing

delves aren't as interesting as HV

the issue with delves is that sure there are some minor mechanics, but in higher tiers it turns into a stat check

[upper pasture]

yes but they aren't as brain dead if you are clearing on an undergeared character FOR mogs.

[rain cave]

also delves don't have much mog associated with them

[deep pawn]

Maybe visions would be more exciting if I hadn't done them in bfa

but I'm sorry, the challenge being they quadruple the mobs?

[rain cave]

like sure, I had a LOT of fun getting my title from the boss last season

it was very engaging

but I can't just walk into it

I have to grind delves that feel a bit.. stale

also the sheer amount of minor things they're throwing at us feels wrong

why do we have nightfall, delves, time walking, visions, duos

why not just... 1 or 2 good major events with more content in them

because as it is right now, nightfall feels barely a thing. I can't understand duos design purpose and a delve event doesn't breed much enthusiasm

[deep pawn]

Also multiple 1% power grinds that are timegated feels insulting to my time at least.

The corruptions go away in s3, let them be fun

Noooo, everyone's just using the boring stats

Turbo boost felt like the most blatant engagement farming they've done in a long long time.

Sadly the quarterly report is gonna look fire for hours spent in keys that week.

[rain cave]

if they wanted to turn visions into something fresh and keep it more entertaining for longer as a major thing, imagine they just turned visions into a mini-raid

and took some queues from the BRD anniversary raid thing, obv not as long though

[deep pawn]

Visions are probably the best part of 11.1.5 cause it felt like they actually tried with them, but who knows.

Blizzard needs to find a way to do SOMETHING that isn't do mini objectives to fill a bar.

[rain cave]

I log in and get bombarded with so many mental checklists I usually just log off

since I have nobody to play with consistently, no guild and 2 friends in different continents who don't actively play with me

[deep pawn]

Turbo boost honestly killed my desire to play alts.

They made the grind too long again

[deep pawn]

I guess part of my disappointment was at this point in DF we had gotten Exile's Reach, Fyrakk Assaults, and DotI which all felt a lot more current and immersive with the expansion.

10.1.5 was a huge patch all things considered

[pulsar minnow]

I think the lack of a mega dungeon is probably the biggest thing to me this expansion. They’re fantastic for getting alts brought up

[rain cave]

I didn't even like those

they felt too chorey and unimportant to me

like what's the point in releasing exiles reach or siren isle when they're just going to become irrelevant within 2 months

especially when it's not anything particularly interesting, just a new wave of things to add to the chore list alongside world quests

[pulsar minnow]

I worry that blizz is kind of doing a BFA again. Wherein they think they found a formula that works and now are afraid to depart from it

BFA basically copied the legion formula, tried to streamline it, but didn’t really bring any big wow factors

[deep pawn]

10.0.5 had the trading post!

Siren Isle and Exile's Reach just gave you some new nooks and crannies to explore at the very end of a season.

I mean the simplest answer is the late story change just gutted a lot of planned content

Like Overcharged delves being Titan constructs suddenly waking up and empowering our enemies has to be leftovers from when the Titans were our end boss

Dagran learning how to turn their tech against them was likely relevant

So TWW got a bit WoD'ed, sacrificed to the pyre of later fan service

[pulsar minnow]

Idk I don’t really think overcharged delves were really something that was planned that far in advance. They’re not exactly that huge of a feature it seems

I just pray midnight is more than just player housing when it comes to major features

Because while housing is cool, I definitely know what I want to make and once I do I’m probably not going to think about it again

[deep pawn]

Housing is its own team entirely separate from everything else

So housing shouldn't be causing issues

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah, what I’m saying is I hope that it isn’t the only major feature.

[deep pawn]

Its the fact they suddenly had to create new 11.1 and 11.2s later in the cycle than they normally do

Or maybe there would have been an 11.3 in the original version if Undermine was always planned

But Undermine feels smaller than normal

[pulsar minnow]

I mean undermine is just a tiny zone in general

I think someone super imposed it over Dornogal and it’s like barely bigger than that

[deep pawn]

Which could track if it was a last minute addition

It does have that chunk in the second zone but it's used every other week after the intro quest haha

[pulsar minnow]

I also think Undermine was definitely hurt by being disconnected from the rest Khaz Algar. I always hate when they choose to go that route with some of these zones. It’s what made Shadowlands so damn bad. The scale of the world suffers from not being connected

Zaralek, while largely abandoned after 10.1, still felt substantial because it was well connected to the rest of the world

[deep pawn]

Imagine Zaralek with 2 delves that you did every so often haha

[pulsar minnow]

Delves would’ve done so well in DF my goodness

I still think we need another type of single to small group content. I think Torghast was on the right track and I want them to revisit it

I’ve always wanted in a void expansion a sort of lovecraftian labyrinth kind of content

Imagine a maze that changes every run. Sort of like the mazes in breath of the wild/tears of the kingdom. Maybe it can make use of the climbing stuff they added in DF too

[harsh mason]

I don't think they planned to add a big novelty for a new type of content in a mini patch)))

If there will be updates for delves (and there will be, since it is now a new pillar of content, along with dungeons, raids and the open world), it will only be in the new expansion

[ember blaze]

i unequipped two pieces of gear and it does t scale u down

[upper pasture]

It scales you to 619

[ember blaze]

right so if u get rid of low budget pieces you dont

it doesnt scale you up to 619

if u dont got full gear equipped

like u remove 2 trinkets, you keep all ur stats at 680

or cloak/wrists

[glass fulcrum]

Yeah the scaling is weird, i equipped a DF ring and I didn’t get any demerit but equipping baron rivdendare’s sword absolutely crunched my ilvl (iirc like 130 limit)

[deep pawn]

It feels plot relevant to Dagran's arc. I think it was planned. Features are usually planned out pretty far ahead.

[lavish raptor]

If ur 619 and under none of your pieces are rescaled, if you're over they do rescale

[twilit coral]

The 11.2 trailer its a meme

Well, 11.2 trailer TODAY?

Jajajajaj

[zealous sedge]

We can hope

[thin warren]

😮 exciting

[tropic trail]

Maybe this Wednesday reset 😹

New patch hehe

[lone mantle]

What does the Eye of the Architect behold?

[tropic trail]

Lol what

[lone mantle]

Will the announcement of Patch 11.2 emerge by tomorrow?

[lavish raptor]

We just dont know

[tropic trail]

Lmao soon 😌

Not gonna be this week cuz othervise you would already know it

[warm topaz]

not really?

iirc, 10.1 was revealed by content creators and Blizz didn't say anything

i don't think 11.2 will be revealed by ccs but they could shadow drop the video imo

[deep pawn]

it could be any time really but who knows haha

later in the week is usually when they do it though I think.

10.1 NDA lifted on Wednesday, PTR notes came out on Thursday.

The 30th Anniversary Direct was on a Wednesday but it was also announced like 3 weeks ahead

[warm topaz]

yeah today is not likely

[deep pawn]

I wish it was

[deep pawn]

nothing today

[ember blaze]

it's still very early

[deep pawn]

not for their normal news posts

[tropic trail]

Usually I saw on mmo-c day earlier spoiler before they released something.

[deep pawn]

Take a nap, eat dinner, yeah the amount of chatter feels right. 😛

[zealous sedge]

My usual wow podcast I listen to hasn’t dropped their episode yet. Something might be brewing 👀

[lone mantle]

[zealous sedge]

have the Titans sworn you to secrecy?

[lone mantle]

Analysis suggests the opposite is true.

[harsh mason]

It's more like just a plot rationale, they try to plot everything they add (the best example is timewalking). This does not mean that another story arc was planned for him, besides the one that was in 11.0

[deep pawn]

I mean we know from what they've said that this expansion was originally going to end with us confronting the Titans.

[sullen dawn]

Where did they say that specifically?

[deep pawn]

At one of the recent events or panels

They said the plot of the saga was going to be just this expansion until Metzen said they should spread it out

[sullen dawn]

Yep they did say that but they never explicity said titans would be end of tlt

Its a good jnference but still just speculation

[deep pawn]

the story of the saga was changed from 1 expansion to 3, and the entire launch story's b act was the Earthen learning about the Titans using them and vowing revenge...

[sullen dawn]

Which is what I said. We can infer we would probably fight the titans at the end but that was never confirmed. So we'll never know

[zealous sedge]

Still no news hmmmmm

[deep pawn]

It's not 1pm yet

[zealous sedge]

Ohhh

I can never remember when they post this stuff

[deep pawn]

I'm not expecting anything today

[zealous sedge]

Yeah

[ember blaze]

this means we're getting a big update which is why its delayed so much 😂

[zealous sedge]

I’m curious though cause WoWHead has been incredibly silent. Also the hosts of the hosts The Starting Zone pod have been radio silent in the discord and haven’t posted this week’s episode yet. Although I have read that Blizz mostly post patch reveals on Wednesday, which I can’t verify.

[ember blaze]

why would wowhead not be silent

[zealous sedge]

Cause they are gearing up for a patch reveals

[ember blaze]

lol

[zealous sedge]

They usually rehash some clickbait in down times tbh

I’m just coping let me have this

Haha

[sullen dawn]

Next week or the week after probably

Ofc this week would be very nice

[sullen dawn]

It was never delayed

[ember blaze]

u take things too serious

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24209851/warcraft-short-story-faith-flame

[sullen dawn]

I dont think its serious haha

I didnt know we werent allowed to correct things :p

[deep pawn]

Anduin has left Hallowfall? First time we hear that right

[sullen dawn]

Yep

Seems like hes fully "better" now

I hope Faerin joins us on K'aresh

One of my favourite new characters this exp

[silent urchin]

Curious how much truth there is to that legend of the queen and the scion. I guess Faerin is going to be wanting to hunt it down as well

although she already has the power of the flame/light so not sure what the end result would be

few other interesting implications in it, kinda just.. want to actually know more than just implications though

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that was a cool read we’ll see how it shapes up

Is Faerin gonna be queen of Stormwind? I can’t tell if they are trying to stoke a flame there with Anduin

[silent urchin]

I don't see it happening. At least not any time soon.

[deep pawn]

Sadly this feels very final to everything in Khaz Algar

Likely Faerin is going to find the temple or at least the Queen and that helps us defeat the void at the Sunwell

[zealous sedge]

i was gonna say we might be leaving khaz algar for 11.2

that is kinda dissapointing

[silent urchin]

we'll be back, whenever it's time to go down to the manifold and figure out what the heck the titans and the world soul are actually doing

[zealous sedge]

it seems whatever 11.2 is will really just be considred midnight

[zealous sedge]

this is true. they have to repair the worldcore

i mean

the coreway sorry

[uncut vault]

He left at the end of the max level campaign

Final quest is him and thrall in Dornogal

[zealous sedge]

I don't think Blizz gave up on TWW but the story definitely did change halfway through development/ story boarding with Metzen on board

[deep pawn]

It makes Khaz Algar feel like filler

I'm sure the Earthen will rejoin us for TLT but it robs some agency of saving their home

[zealous sedge]

True. We've been talking about how Khaz Algar was probably just a single patch as they tried to fit the entirety of what now is the World Soul Saga into one expansion. So in some way they may have cornered themselves into something where it wasn't particularly easy to keep 11.2 within Khaz Algar without sounding to repetitive or it didn't really move the story forward in a way that makes sense for Midnight. Undermine was a clear and easy choice to keep with the underground theme especially with it being a mid expansion patch, it was able to deviate.

Perhaps they also don't want the player base to be fatigued on the underground theme and the lack of vitamin D lol

but also 11.2 and midnight being all void sounds like it will be annoying by the end. But they could employ the same tactic and utilize 12.2 as a bridge to TLT

I think we're just in a different era now where as the major patches in the past didn't have to push the story forward in a long term way. But now that everything is connected in one 3 expansion long (and perhaps longer) throughline it all needs to fit like very long storyboard

[deep pawn]

Or Rootlands is just Orwenya and no one else

[lavish raptor]

The rootlands raid is orwenya dancing for two hours in a black void

[zealous sedge]

Metzen said the heroes will "lose"

maybe part of losing is the rootlands being corrupted by the void

and we need to go cleanse

but that might not be til 13.0

[deep pawn]

TLT feels packed already if we have Iridikron, a mid tier, and the Titans

[zealous sedge]

agreed

its why I think cause it is the finale they are planning a .3 patch

[warm topaz]

agree

[deep pawn]

That's a I'll believe it when I see it over selling a new expansion faster

[zealous sedge]

haha thats true

[deep pawn]

TWW introduced a lot of good stuff, but I don't think setting or storywise it'll be remembered fondly

We don't have any indication of learning why the Emperor saw Beledar as a falling star yet the Keepers thought it was Azerite

[warm topaz]

i wonder if they'll continue the saga model after TLT

[deep pawn]

If it seems popular but who knows

I don't think I'll be alone in saying no if it means expansions like TWW that treat a setting as filler for levelling

[zealous sedge]

I agree. I think TWW really was a patch originally and they had to come up with a lot of things from scratch in terms of story. It's not bad per se, but it's definitely a foundational expansion in order to introduce a lot of things. Goes to show that it really was never intended to be a full xpac imo

[deep pawn]

I disagree on it being a patch

[zealous sedge]

As for TLT and not having a .3 patch, technically I don't recall Metzen saying TLT was the last of the World Soul Saga, only that they were revealing the next 3 expansions. But that might be just semantics.

[deep pawn]

I think TWW was originally the full expansion, but they cut Renilash and the Titan confrontation from it

[warm topaz]

if they are already planning 13.0/14.0/15.0 as a new saga, that wouldn't happen

[zealous sedge]

I think they will especially from an engagement standpoint it keeps players looking forward to things many yaers in advance.

[zealous sedge]

That makes sense.

[deep pawn]

Midnight was clearly gonna be a patch centered on Beledar going dark and we rekindled it but it alerted the Titans

[zealous sedge]

Official preview out for 11.1.7

[deep pawn]

And 11.2 was gonna focus on us defending Azeroth from the Titans with the Earthen and whatever we learned from the Haranir

Sunwell is just a bigger Beledar and it's fan service as a location

And they can turn the manifold into stuff under Ulduar

Likely going back to that giant opening in the Storm Peaks

[sullen dawn]

Actually.... thats a really good point

Good shout

They probably will do .3 for the saga close out

[deep pawn]

It'd be cool if they do but I wouldn't bank on it

[sullen dawn]

Not banking but hopeful

[zealous sedge]

It would be yes and I would love it but also capitalism

unless they mde TLT more expensive

but also they can milk the story into 14.0 of course

[sullen dawn]

We also dont know what monetisation changes will have happened by then

Or what they plan to do post saga

[sullen dawn]

Doubt. Entire point of twss is to close up on stuff

14.0 will be a fresh story imo

[deep pawn]

Avaloren is our most likely follow up

This short story introduced Dreamers and maybe pixies

[sullen dawn]

This or back to demons (non legion)

[deep pawn]

Dreamers were capitalized. I'd wager they're our lost Greens

[sullen dawn]

We still have Medivhs "bigger problems" to deal with

[deep pawn]

Avaloren is likely a play on Avalon and will draw on Arthurian and Celtic myths

[sullen dawn]

More Briton than celtic

Isle of Dorn is celtic

[deep pawn]

Lots of overlap

[sullen dawn]

And Ardenweald

[sullen dawn]

As an irishman im aware of the similarities and differences

[deep pawn]

We'll probably see a native race of Fae on Avaloren

[sullen dawn]

Theyre sufficiently distinct

Celtic was Ireland, Wales, southwestern England, northern France

Britons were inland and eastern England

Different cultures/myths around them

[deep pawn]

Arthurian myths are likely based on stuff from Wales...

[sullen dawn]

Well Wales didnt really exist

But much of that area was celtic

Arthar was a Briton

But yeh a bunch of Wales was part of that

And a bunch was celtic. Wales didn't a nation so

*wasnt

[deep pawn]

I meant as a region and at that time it was Celtic. The myths are just a retelling.

[sullen dawn]

This is more briton style

Which is more likely to be whay avaloren is based on. Arthurian

This is celtic below. Isle of down and ardenweald most celtic inspired zones in game

*dorn

Celts never really unified the way Britons did (we were always warring with eachother). The idea of imperialist celts sounds stupid

[deep pawn]

The Celtic inspiration is likely Fae and other stuff that is outside the empire

[sullen dawn]

Thats fair

We saw that in ardenweald already

The trees even have celtic names

Specifically gaelic coded

[deep pawn]

We did but I don't think that stops future Celtic inspiration. We'll probably get a Morgan La Fay type character

[sullen dawn]

And Isle of Dorn is based on Northern Ireland (Dornagol = Donegal; giant coming out of the sea; granite structures etc..)

[sullen dawn]

It doesnt. Im agreeing with you now

The celtic inspired group would need to be outside empire

If you ever saw carnival row, I could imagine those creatures as wow fae

More modern day but it has the imperialist vs fae narrative

Basically mirroring England's abuse of ireland haha

[zealous sedge]

im guessing we're not getting any news with today's story post

maybe we will get housing post instead

cope

[silent urchin]

I'm guessing not til after 11.1.7 at this rate

[zealous sedge]

yeah 😦

[ember blaze]

so not really losing

[upper pasture]

i really think Xal'atath corrupting the sunwell is gonna be our end cinematic for TWW

it would be a big loss on our part, meaning we really are losing a war against her and then that sets the stage for as why we are over there in midnight and unifying the elves

[zealous sedge]

I can see it

You think we fail and she gets the Dark Heart back from the Ethereals?

[upper pasture]

oh 100%

[zealous sedge]

question for me is if Quel Danas is 11.0 raid or 11.1

i mean 12.0 or 12.1

[deep pawn]

12.0 is Trolls like Nerubians, 12.1 is Sunwell, 12.2 is inside the void

Sunwell will finally be a portal

[zealous sedge]

i hope trolls have a necromancer/ scourge side

[deep pawn]

Deatholme is likely a dungeon haha

The crimson dawn will be another dungeon

[sullen dawn]

This but I think the sunwell patch wont actually be a sunwell patch

[deep pawn]

I really don't like how all the major characters are acting like the fight against Xal is over after the Dark Heart got broken. Surely we told others that it was fixed

[sullen dawn]

I.e it wont be very similar to the tbc patch

[deep pawn]

I mean it'll already be different enemies and a bigger layout

[sullen dawn]

Alternative is they do red dawn/scarlets for 12.1

[deep pawn]

Red Dawn are too small to carry a patch.

[sullen dawn]

Sure I just think the location will be elsewhere, even kd the mission is still to defend it

[deep pawn]

They're literally dungeon fodder

[sullen dawn]

So far

Gally isnt exactly important either

[deep pawn]

He is a lot more important than random racist humans 3.0

[ember blaze]

what classes can that come with? 👀

[deep pawn]

I also think a Sunwell raid for the 20th anniversary of TBC would go over very well

Bard or Lancer would be most iconic I think haha

[sullen dawn]

Neither happening

And neither iconic for wow

Tinker (possibly called Artificer) is far more likely

Post TWSS you meant i think? Maybe yeh if we go to avaloeron

But still not iconic for wow

[deep pawn]

I meant as iconic for Arthurian stuff

[ember blaze]

who cares

20 years later im down for something new

[ember blaze]

thats like a knight with a spear right?

ive noticed one npc in the nightfall place who uses a spear and has a cool dash ability

[sullen dawn]

I was just replying to kyle who said they'd be the most iconic thing ever

[deep pawn]

which was in response to Tobi asking what classes that can come with Avaloren and Arthurian inspiration.

We already have at least one Arathi who uses songs for power.

[sullen dawn]

One character in the whole game, not even probably fleshed out

So iconic

[deep pawn]

Arthurian legend is famous for Chivalry and Bardic stuff to me at least, so that's what I'm saying.

[rain cave]

the thing with bard as I've said before is that they'd need to make a new magic system for it

the radiant song is a potential avenue as I think you've said kyle

where the class is basically wielding azerite and azerothian magic with that sort of aesthetic

and the bard aspect is the radiant song

but to me that feels more like a choir or chant than playing a lute or flute

but hey maybe because azeroth is seeming like the reason mortals have the ability to bend fate, and basically represents our free will and expression. Maybe they'll start showing that more and the bards are positioned as those blessed by Azeroth with a particularly free spirit that thematically enables the more traditional bard stuff

if it does happen it would happen in TLT though, since I imagine that Azeroth would enlist and bless people directly in a last defense against the titans, like what she did to earthen and thraegar

[deep pawn]

I think it'll be a spec of artificer.

Dagran is gonna teach the class to others in TLT is my guess.

or at least parts of it

[sullen dawn]

If they ever do something like thst I think the class would be called Speaker

But I don't see a melody spec for tinker/artificer. Doesn't fit the titan/machinery focus

After TWSS sure, anything possible

Maybe azeroth is "born" at end of TLT and we can get a Speaker class in like 15.0 (assuming tinker/artifcer in 13.0 and no new class in 14.0)

[deep pawn]

If we get something in Midnight it'll be Void Hunter of some sort.

[glass flicker]

I just hope they won't add more classes that are race restricted.

Demon Hunters, Evokers, imagine if only Pandaren could have been Monks.

[deep pawn]

I think Void hunter would be a spec and be part of DH expansion to all elves haha

If only to let them reuse meta forms

[glass flicker]

Void Hunter may be the spec that allows DHs to wield a two-handed weapon, like Alari the Souleater.

She has a scythe. Remember?

But then again, Void Hunter Demon Hunter?

Nah, just sounds wrong.

[upper pasture]

demon void hunter.....void demon hunter....lol

[glass flicker]

Or, you know, Soul Eater Demon Hunter.

[upper pasture]

void demon hunter hunter

or better yet hunter hunter void demon

[glass flicker]

Void Eater?

Kinda vibin' with Void Eater.

[upper pasture]

void eater sounds edgy enough

[zealous sedge]

There are no scythes in game huh

[upper pasture]

few

[zealous sedge]

Maybe a mog of a polearm

Ah

[glass flicker]

They're polearms and staves, mostly.

[zealous sedge]

We should change that

They*

[glass flicker]

A new scythe weapon class specific to DHs? No thanks.

Just let them use 2H weapons.

[upper pasture]

if they added scythes and not let DKs use it that would be a waste

[glass flicker]

Exactly.

[upper pasture]

and say warlocks

[glass flicker]

I literally wrote a Shadowlands headcanon where Arthas becomes the generic Grim Reaper. Skeleton in a black robe with a scythe.

[upper pasture]

just make it a mixed weapon like staves

or polearms

[glass flicker]

So, DKs being unable to use scythes would be beyond dumb.

[upper pasture]

but i think they could add a spec to DH that also adds scythes but not restrict it to just them

[glass flicker]

Seriously though. Arthas should have become the Grim Reaper. As atonement for serving the Jailer, he is made into a Forsworn Kyrian, and made to harbor the souls of every mortal from Azeroth. He replaces the Spirit Healer in graveyards, has a few lines. Make them class-specific like Bwonsamdi's.

And boom, you got a happy community after Shadylands.

[zealous sedge]

Never said specific to a certain class. Just a new weapon type.

[glass flicker]

In this case, also make pistols and hand crossbows a new weapon type for Survival Hunters and Outlaw Rogues.

[zealous sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-endwalker-final-fantasy14-aviriia-gif-24583685

Give me a mog like this:

[glass flicker]

ZENOS

MY HUSBANDO

[zealous sedge]

Crazy how we don’t have one handed crossbows

We might but maybe not many

[glass flicker]

Survival Hunters literally use one for their DoT.

[zealous sedge]

But no mog got it?

Just spell?

[glass flicker]

It does use the transmog of a questing crossbow from MoP though.

[zealous sedge]

Ah

Blow dart weapon

[glass flicker]

We did get some pistol shot glyphs for outlaw, maybe crossbows are next for Survival.

[zealous sedge]

I’m just rattling stuff off at this point

[glass flicker]

Yeah, at this point, just add a "short range weapons" tab and let us choose. I want my warrior to shoot someone with a pistol instead of throwing her weapon.

I want my outlaw rogue to fling playing cards at people.

Who knows, maybe even a good ol' Kung Lao razor hat.

https://tenor.com/view/videogames-mortalkombat-kunglao-gif-22332577

Wouldn't be that hard to get a system like that going. "Ranged Weapon Accessory" slot with items you can find in the world, some crafted, and they are functionally glyphs.

No gameplay advantage for using one over the other. Just drip.

Ha! Wowhead even has some forgotten ranged weapons in their database, you can put them on in the dressing room.

[rain cave]

honestly the idea of new hero specs being linked across clases is an idea I'm liking more and more

[deep pawn]

I just don't see an expansion of hero trees unless you get to pick a new one along side, but why even call it a hero tree at that point

Blizzard also already struggles to balance hero trees for two specs in the same class

[lavish raptor]

Theyll probably add more talents to the existing hero tree and call it a day

[rain cave]

I feel that will sorely underdeliver unless the talents are flashy

which kind of goes against them being an evergreen system

there must be something for us to put points in to if we're levelling up at all next xpac

[deep pawn]

You're gonna get to pick between a few void and light powers

[rain cave]

but in my head a logical next step would be sharing hero specs accross classes

void hunter could be DH and MM,
Demo and Vengeance could get more demonic mutation style magic
frost DK and mage can be liches,
Ret paladin and Disc priest can be inquisitors
Augmentation and prot warriors can be earthwarders

etc etc

gives us more options, ties together some new fantasies currently unplayable but also doesn't limit them to one class

if anything dark ranger should have been rogue and hunter

[deep pawn]

That seems like hell. You're better off focusing on stuff per class if not per spec, unless you plan for them to share a name only which then they aren't hero trees

[rain cave]

I don't think it's hell I think it sounds really fun

we already have hero talents shared between roles, so I don't see whats different here

[deep pawn]

Its hell to balance. There's no way for example to make prot warrior and Aug share 10 talents that work with their drastically different kits, blizzard again barely makes two specs of the same class work together well

[rain cave]

if anything it lets them pair them better thematically so they'd fit more naturally in

[pulsar minnow]

i mean an augvoker and a prot warrior have two very different roles. And a buff/nerf to one tree would be a buff/nerf to two classes at the same time

it would be incredibly difficult to balance

[rain cave]

not true since they balance hero talents seperately

hero talents are different for different specs even if it's the same tree

[deep pawn]

Depends on the designer. Some designers actually balance specs separately, others nerf both specs

[little hound]

Can we get 11.2 news soon? Aaaugh

[rain cave]

I think you over-estimate the balancing act

[deep pawn]

There's no consistent design for hero talents

[glass flicker]

Why would they simply not keep Hero Talents in place as they are, and give us a system that's all baseline throughout, kind of like Essences back in BfA?

Something tied to Azeroth.

[rain cave]

because they said no borrowed power

[deep pawn]

Like they nerfed a guardian druid ability that was less than 1% of their kit cause they nerfed balance druid

[rain cave]

and hero talents are an evergreen system

[glass flicker]

So, just make that evergreen, what's the issue?

[deep pawn]

Hero talents are evergreen only so far as they aren't going away in 12.0

[rain cave]

feel silly to make them evergreen if they don't expand them

[deep pawn]

Don't expect them to last forever

[glass flicker]

Draw on your own connection to Azeroth to grow more powerful, with a choice between ten talents that are all the same across the board for everyone.

Add glyphs to make them look more class specific, done.

[little hound]

That sounds highly uncreative, stale and just lazy.

[deep pawn]

I still think we see an in name only Netherlight Crucible

The crucible lets you pick void and light powers to amplify your kit

[little hound]

Oh god. Memories. Not good ones.

I’m still coping hard for playable ethereals in 11.2. Been wanting it since TBC and i was a youngling.

[glass flicker]

Would you rather have a system like this and more content throughout the expansion, or a very in-depth system and another expansion with three raid tiers?

'Cause I'm tired of expansions only having three raids.

[little hound]

Its still plenty on content. Maybe not equally exciting for EVERYONE. But still ALOT More than we ever got 2-3 expansions ago. So i’m happy. And burnouts gives me time to try other games too. Recently finished Elden Ring Nightreign

[glass flicker]

While at it, also nuke mythic+ as a system. It's simply not good or healthy for the game.

The fact that there are no lockouts and no real limiters on how much gear you can get just means you can outgear mythic raids in a matter of days, maybe weeks, by just repeating the same boring slop dungeon a zillion amount of times.

[little hound]

M+ Provides high gear for those capable of beating a challenge. Raiding should never have been the ONLY Path to gearing. Not everyone has the time to raid as often, or the luxury to. So M+ being a challenge on its own to reward people capable of it? Is very much a welcome thing. Hero-track delve gear too from vault.

[glass flicker]

But it's not really a challenge, is it? I cleared a +10 last week while my rogue was 626 ilvl.

[little hound]

M+ is just as popular as raiding, and both make for great sports in form of Race to Worlds First, and MDI E-sports.

[little hound]

Doubt you were anywhere near top DPS on that so. Won’t really believe you did much there 😂

[deep pawn]

I'd rather not have PvE content designed for esports haha

[little hound]

Ah you get the gist. M+ is the key to MDI, which is alot of the seasonal hype

[glass flicker]

If you really want to keep mythic+, at least add lockouts so you can't endlessly spam them. How is it that Delves require keys to get worse gear? How does that make sense?

[little hound]

One can moan and cry all one wants, Blizz is never going to remove M+

[glass flicker]

Mythic+ is just bad.

[little hound]

You are entitled to that opinion. A highly unpopular one but one you are free to have. Enjoy.

[deep pawn]

Delves can be soloed and blizzard made them easier than keys so less loot

[glass flicker]

I believe my opinion is objectively the right one, 'cause I've not seen what good M+ can do for the game. No new player will go "oh boy! I can't wait to spam the same dungeon for a piece of gear 300 times!"

Only grind-oriented leets think like that.

[deep pawn]

Can't wait to clear the same raid 24 weeks in a row

[little hound]

Same. I hate Undermine. I’m only doing it for the Mecha Trex mount at renown 20

[glass flicker]

Welp, time to work. Buh-bye.

[little hound]

You are free to speak for yourself. Raids are the same. Weekly reclears, over and over. It grows just as stale.

I have several friends and guildies who always cheer and get excited for weeks of M+ Grinding rather than raid. So not sure what one-sided pov you have, but raids are just the same.

[glass flicker]

Except M+ is not weekly, is it? It has no lockout whatsoever.

[little hound]

I don’t see how that makes a difference? Its still something you grind over, and over again, until it grows boring. Even on both LFR, Normal, Hc. Maybe even mythc

[glass flicker]

Right. Seeing as we don't understand each other, I'm just going to leave this conversation here. I'm feeling drained just trying to explain.

[little hound]

Dealing with one-sided elitists is always taxing. Must feel bad when everyone doesn’t agree with you, enjoy bitching out 👍

[glass flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/blinking-eyes-white-guy-blinking-meme-what-huh-gif-26334323

Sir, this isn't Twitter.

[little hound]

Well aware. Just saying, people are allowed their opinions without you needing to give an attitude and bolt.

I understand the difference between M+ and Raiding clear as glass. M+ Not having a lockout doesn’t make it «unhealthy» for the game. Its mostly about pushing as high as you can, same for raiding.

[deep pawn]

Lots of people generally prefer smaller group content, lots of people prefer to play solo. Blizzard now gives gearing options to all 3 types.

[little hound]

I do like the delve transmogs. Surprised how busted delve trinkets this season were

[deep pawn]

cause they cap at hero track

[little hound]

Yeh. Managed to hold into both my hero-track delve trinkets until i had 2 myth track trinkets ready

Got over 80 runs in Darkflame. Pretty sure everyone on my friends list and guild had that mole mount now. Not me 😂

[deep pawn]

ooof

I got it randomly.

the drop rate feels pretty high

[ember blaze]

that isnt even how it works. you dont even loot mythic loot from clearing dungeons. It's entirely locked to one piece a week

it's fine if you dont like the content, but at the end of the day, thats your personal opinion

and u dont have to engage with it if u dont like it

[little hound]

Well «Objectively here opinion is the right one» as she said above 😂😂

Her*

[ember blaze]

if u dont even know how loot works, i cant really take their stance on it very serious

[little hound]

I just love when clueless people rant, get proven wrong, and just exit.

[glass flicker]

??
I'm literally at work.

And like I said, mythic+ has no lockouts. You can even spam the same dungeon on the same key level over and over.

And oh hey bucko! Don't worry if you don't time it. You get a chance at loot anyway! Courtesy of Ion.

There's basically no punishment for failure. Only benefits to spam them. That's what annoys me.

[upper pasture]

I mean depending on key level you get lesser tracks and less crests, and if you don’t time it the key level goes down, sure it’s repeatable “endlessly” but outside a few special types of people no one is really doing it forever.

I don’t see what’s “wrong” with M+ other than the toxic people who run keys and only pick people who will “carry” them or just do the “meta”

[little hound]

Yeeh. Lots of meta slaves. Sadly that’s also a thing in Mythic Raiding, least if you want to progress

[upper pasture]

Eh, gets better if you find a like minded people who just wanna game and not be meta slaves

[glass flicker]

I want dungeons that actually feel like dungeons. Delves are close to what I imagined. There's treasure, there's minibosses, there's objectives.

[little hound]

I think i enjoyed the BFA Versions of M+. Loved the way affixes worked then. Although lots of them can gladly stay gone or replaced. Loved the N’zoth affix

[upper pasture]

Hmmm….i rather enjoyed this season

[little hound]

I just find it.. tasteless, that we get xal’atath affixes across the entire expansions. Cmon. They have resources to be better on that

[upper pasture]

Eh it’s better than one for a whole season then a different one for 2 and 3

[glass flicker]

I think Blizzard can learn a lot from delves when it comes to designing mythic+ going forward. Like, how come Zekvir and Underpin don't show up in dungeons too?

[upper pasture]

Cause like imagine the heal absorb for an entire season

[glass flicker]

They're kinda our temporary nemesies.

I think it'd be fun from +6 keys onwards for Underpin to crash the party at 50% kills completion, and award like 3 extra minutes of time to finish the thing.

[little hound]

I fail to see what the underpin would fit in M+ for? He’s purely a delve villain and seasonal delve boss

[ember blaze]

not to mention the gimmick is already there with xal showing up...

[upper pasture]

It would be like a new affix

[little hound]

Zek’vir also was strictly delve-lore based

It’d be a weird mix, involving delve bosses into dungeons.

[little hound]

That too

[glass flicker]

So you're saying the Underpin doesn't make a good minor villain for the UNDERMINE patch?

[upper pasture]

I think it would be pretty neat to have a mini boss spawn at half forces killed

[glass flicker]

Exactly.

[upper pasture]

Doesn’t necessarily need to be the “delve” boss

[little hound]

Would make more sense for Ethereal Assassins to poof out and attack.

[upper pasture]

Not that they have to be only that but I could see a season where an affix could be replaced with the seasonal nemesis crashing our dungeon run

[little hound]

I think having the Underpin in BOTH Delves and Dungeons would be weird

[upper pasture]

Why?

We had bosses be in both dungeons and raids before

[little hound]

He is introduced as a Delve villain. His lore is based on delves. And he’s a seasonal DELVE boss.

Using Ethereals in Dungeons would be more in line with the expandikn’s lore

[ember blaze]

these things are nice once

[little hound]

Delves are mini-scenarios, not dungeons.

[ember blaze]

and then they become chores

[upper pasture]

And we’ve had bosses in dungeons and raids before

[little hound]

Still having Torghast flashbacks

[ember blaze]

like u said, delves fulfill that on their own

if u want something more laid back with random shit to do

[upper pasture]

Being in one doesn’t mean you can’t have them in both

[little hound]

Yeah. Bosses who’s lore lined up with those events. Not some random bonkers goblin with no story.

[upper pasture]

You seem to be fixated on it being the underpin

[little hound]

Thats what the conversation was about so.

No kidding ?

[glass flicker]

So, why not change the story, if that's the main issue?

Make it so the Underpin is just some a-hole goblin who hates our guts.

[upper pasture]

If the underpin was told by gallywix to “attack us in dungeons” that would suddenly explain why he would be doing it

[glass flicker]

There ya go, easy reason to hate him in both dungeons and delves.

[little hound]

Doubt Blizzard will alter an expansion’s more narrative for that sake, least mid-way through. From the start? Possibly if planned.

[deep pawn]

of all the things to hate this season? Underpin makes sense, Goblin think he owns the delve and we tell him he's wrong?

[upper pasture]

But as it stands now no having Zek or UP in dungeons wouldn’t make sense but if blizzard wanted to they could easily make this an affix for season 3

[glass flicker]

[upper pasture]

Bro it’s hardly lore, it would be a temporary seasonal affix

[glass flicker]

It'd be rewarding to fight him, too. Maybe he even uses some abilities from the final bosses of bountiful delves that day, to add some spice and variety.

[upper pasture]

Remember when we had dreadlords in M+?

[little hound]

Every affix since bfa had been involved with the patch or expansion’s antagonist

G’huun. Azshara. N’zoth.

Raszageth

[upper pasture]

Yes and this would further increase the connection with the boss and M+ and another layer of you will

Not only would be have Xal showing up to annoy us we’d also have S3 “delve” boss who was instructed by their leader to annoy us

[ember blaze]

it would only be one

[little hound]

From lore perspective: Ethereal Invaders would make more sense. They also chase both Xal and the dark heart.

[ember blaze]

idk if theyd want some random nobody on a cave for the seasonal affix instead of the main boss of the season?

[little hound]

And Xal is all over the S2 affix

[upper pasture]

Not necessarily

If it’s literally spawning a mini boss and we fight it at say keystone 6 and up the lower keystones would still need other stuff.

[little hound]

Which he does in Delves. He doesn’t need to be in dungeons too

[upper pasture]

Okay man, we were just spitballing ideas. Glad you love M+ how it is now and forever

[little hound]

You can wish for it but the way Blizz does things and always have? It’ll never happen.

[upper pasture]

sigh

[little hound]

Ideas are one thing, but i’ll speak realisticly regardless. Feel free to be angry about it. Really doesn’t bother me.

[little hound]

Why wouldn’t i be happy about it? I see nor feel any current issues with current M+ and its workings.

If anything is an issue, its class tuning

[glass flicker]

So the system isn't stale for you?

[upper pasture]

I don’t think the system is stale but if we just get the same affixes for 10 years. Yeah it would become pretty boring to me atleast

[little hound]

Anything grows stale if done for weeks upon weeks. Thats why people take breaks.

I hit my seasonal goal on 3 chars which is more than i cared for. If i’m bored? I farm achievs. Mounts. Transmogs. Pets. M+/Raiding isn’t everything.

[ember blaze]

eh, the people that engage with it the most dont even play with affixes

but affixes are just a nice power boost to get on lower keys

[little hound]

I cba to aim for 3k when its just a recolor of the 2k mount.

[glass flicker]

I'm just saying. M+ as a system should be more than just "kill everything and leave."

[little hound]

True. On 12s and higher, you only get fort/tyra

[upper pasture]

Oh for sure but they shouldn’t mean we should have boring affixes working towards the higher keys

[glass flicker]

It needs more variety. More randomness. Something to happen that makes you go "oh wait, this doesn't happen normally!"

[ember blaze]

no it doesnt

[upper pasture]

Tbf that’s what delves are for

[ember blaze]

u want to change something in a game mode that isnt designed for that

[upper pasture]

There’s no shot anyone doing M+ normally wants randomness to their timed content

[ember blaze]

it's like me saying raiding should have some random delve boss spawning in there randomly to add variety

[little hound]

Yeah. No. Mythic+ isn’t a roguelike. Its supposed to be the same, but harder and harder for each level.

[ember blaze]

like thats not the point of raiding and the whole point is to fight the specific boss and its mechanics

so its silly to suggest some random shit happening

Now if we're talking about delves which is a casual game mode you can do anything in...

[upper pasture]

Yeah but M+ can sell it as an affix and arm wave it

[little hound]

Thats the same as suggesting: «Oh, bosses on Mythic Raids should get new abilities or a new affix every week»

[ember blaze]

then yeah thats more fitting

like u gotta accept that some content is designed a certain way

[little hound]

If you started adding «Random Events» go M+, you’d just end up with Delves on a timer with harder shit.

That isn’t the intention or design of M+ what so ever so. That won’t ever happen.

[ember blaze]

im fine with exploring mini games and puzzles elsewhere

[little hound]

I haven’t bothered doing the new visions stuff yet either. Maybe i should

[ember blaze]

like if im leveling and on that normal version the dungeons do those things, cool

[little hound]

Delves are basically Mini M+ with no timer, and easy mode

Which is why most rewards are dookie bad, besides hero trinkets

[ember blaze]

like m+ as a system was a great addition to the game since it adds replayability to dungeons

otherwise there wouldnt be any reason to go in there after leveling

and delves on their own get boring extremely fast

[little hound]

I’m just happy they added vault in SL. In BFA/Legion getting ONE RANDOM ITEM every week was.. ugh

[deep pawn]

I really like delves and I'm excited they want to see how they can make them challenging enough to let you earn mythic gear

[sullen dawn]

I have never agreed with you more ♥️

Hopefully the world tier difficulty system from legion remix makes it to live in TLT

[little hound]

Would be fun with a Delve-specific "Challenge Mode" with cosmetic rewards.

[sullen dawn]

I would never raid or mythic+ again

[little hound]

Same. I need higher "World Difficulties".

[sullen dawn]

And mythic gear in vault

[little hound]

Idc much for mythic gear in vaults really, i think that's easily enough obtained.

[sullen dawn]

Yeh if you raid or m+

[little hound]

Doing a +10 isn't really a hard feat this late into a season. At the start? Yes. But i'd love higher world tiers with more challenges and rewards, both upgrade and cosmetic wise.

[sullen dawn]

Its not the difficulty. I love difficulty

I just only wanna play either solo or with my two rl friends who play

But we want harder content

Especially open world

[little hound]

I want open world content to be harder too. Quest mobs are mostly jokes these days.

I want quests to feel more like they did in vanilla. Where 1 mobs was Ok, 2 were a danger, and 3 made your blood pump.

[sullen dawn]

It would turn the story campaigns into actual game content haha

[little hound]

Yeah, and they'd make side-quests more valuable and more committing to actually bother.

Now you can get every zone achiev and sojourner achiev easily within a day.

I feel like the term "Quest" should feel more adventuring and challenging. Not just do 1 big AoE Pull and DONE.

[thin warren]

it is that way at the start of the new content mostly, but when you play a lot you end up having a high iLvl even for the new content

the content also needs to be playable for new players who don't start with high ilvl

[sullen dawn]

Were talkkng about world tiers

Not increasing the base difficulty

[sullen dawn]

And no, it isnt. Its faceroll from day 1

[thin warren]

i remember starting TWW and having to take 1 max 2 mobs at a time

so no, it didn't feel like faceroll at all

[little hound]

I guess it depends on class?

On both Hunter, mage, Paladin and DK, I had 0 Issues facerolling packs of least 6-8 Mobs during xpac launch.

[thin warren]

hmm, they did nerf the scaling while leveling

[little hound]

I was Lv 80.

So no, it was not while leveling.

It was while doing Lv 80 side-quests and such

[thin warren]

ic

[sullen dawn]

Sounds like a skill issue

[sullen dawn]

I've been facerolling everything levelling in every expansion for a decade

[thin warren]

oneshotting sounds impossible

i almost oneshot mobs from the launch-content now with my ilvl 660

but certainly a few abilities or hits before they go down

[sullen dawn]

Facerolling. The kne shot thing depends on class ans how thays set up

Like final verdict is a one shot

[thin warren]

don't know my abilities by head

[sullen dawn]

Ok

[thin warren]

wake of ashes does kill i think

[sullen dawn]

Whole packs sometimes :p

[thin warren]

yeah, it's a good one

[sullen dawn]

What if 11.2 is actually

Rise of the Mudskippers

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-warcraft-mudskipper-blind-caveskipper-goofy-fish-gif-9538970590525135074

[glass flicker]

What if 11.2 is actually Tides of Murlockia?

[sullen dawn]

Tides of Vengence returns :]

[glass flicker]

Ahah, no it doesn't.

:(

Anyways, 11.2. will be called Heart of the Void. You heard it here first.

[sullen dawn]

Good shout

Or the radiant song

Heart of Darkness could be cool too

[glass flicker]

Noh, I can almost 100% confirm that it's gonna be a patch about tying up and shelving Xal'atath for now.

[sullen dawn]

Oh I know its about xal and ethereals

Just speculating on name

[glass flicker]

She's gonna do a very angery scream and fly into nowhere. And we gotta follow. And we fight a bunch of toilet paper guys.

[sullen dawn]

Hey ethereals are awesome

Bene waiting for this moment since TBC

[pulsar minnow]

Surprise! 11.2: Return to Korthia!

[warm topaz]

news today? what you guys think?

[silent urchin]

I don't see it this close to 11.1.7 releasing. They'd have done it by now if they were going to do it beforehand

[sullen dawn]

Its not impossible ofc but im not gonna get my hopes up. Either way itll happen sometime between now and 2 weeks from now

[rain cave]

Mudskippers are actually titan spies

[sullen dawn]

Mudskippers ARE titans :p

[silent urchin]

this explains why bubbles is the hardest thing in M+ this season

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24205457/legacy-of-arathor-get-an-assist-with-new-ui-options

Just more 11.1.7 previews

[deep pawn]

Could have sworn they were all done lol

Could still be some NDAs lifted but I wager we'd see the links already

Next week I guess

Still gonna be a short ptr if they have an August 5th goal

"what if the blue lady in the photo is a hint!"

I do think it's possible the Scion is the Blue Lady but hmmm

[ember blaze]

nah the gryphon is clearly a hint at the storm rider class

[ember blaze]

is that a flute? bard confirmed

[silent urchin]

Blow dart pipe

[ember blaze]

oh 💀

lame

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/965458290358235147/1367953778925371413/Rathilspeen.gif

[sullen dawn]

Dracthyr are lame yes

[zealous sedge]

2 minutes until nothing

[deep pawn]

why would something happen?

[zealous sedge]

i'm bored

also 1 PM is usually news drop

/sigh

I guess we wait til next week

[sullen dawn]

News drop was 3 hrs ago

And always is

[deep pawn]

and just final notes today, bleh.

Please be next Wednesday not the 25th haha

[zealous sedge]

If it’s the 25th I will be concerned

That means PTR is gonna be so short

Unless they delay their 8 week cadence, which I doubt

Because they need the finale for TWW out before midnight reveal

[thin warren]

.2 info is nearing!!!!

[lavish raptor]

im so ready for the announcement - largely because i can finally publish my damn guide updates once the new patch drops

so many changes

[silent urchin]

The big streamers have had NEWS TODAY?! in their titles for almost two weeks now, they must know something we dont!

[deep pawn]

nah

its just the patch will be announced soon, we just don't know when

[silent urchin]

oh yeah I'm just making fun of their titles cause they either don't actually know anything, or they're just deliberately trolling

[lavish raptor]

Clickbait ahoy

[tropic trail]

Next week 😈

[deep pawn]

it's not clickbaiting, it's just they're waiting like we are.

The content has been a tad... not exciting haha

[lavish raptor]

this patch has given much more to low levels

cant wait for next patch's "orweyna enters a poly relationship with an ethereal and an arathi" questline, set in Root'aresh, where they teleported K'aresh inside of the Rootlands

[tropic trail]

There must be one more raid and legion remix so..

[upper pasture]

legion remix will probably be on a .5 or .7 patch tho

[tropic trail]

Yea then about that time they announce midnight

[upper pasture]

we will likely see the midnight deep dive thingy before the month's end

unless of course something happened and they pushed it back.

honestly i'd be shocked if we don't get the 11.2 and midnight stuff the same week or even the same day

[deep pawn]

midnight reveal is after 11.2 launches

so don't expect that til August

[upper pasture]

didn't they already state they are doing the midnight deep dive in june? so like i said unless something changed then i'd expect them close together seeing as we are nearly half way through june

[deep pawn]

no?

The roadmap just has it late summer

Which is late August or Early September.

[upper pasture]

huh coulda swore they said late june

well, my real hope is they tie it to the RFW and drop some midnight stuff after the race is over like the following day. cause the "big loss" will be tied right to the raid

[sullen dawn]

No

Towillee et al. know nothing except when there a content creator event

Which there hasn't been yet

So theyre just farming views/clicks

[sullen dawn]

Gamescom in august is the midnight deep dive

[upper pasture]

Oh joy they buffed the belt

Good

[lavish raptor]

Nice

Ive been putting off getting a belt upgrade because i knew we were gonna get that

[silent urchin]

they actually nerfed static charge which was looking to be the best one

at least with certain haste percentages

[deep pawn]

I just love chasing 1% after 1%

[ember blaze]

"we cant let u buy mythic raid items cause it locks those slots for next season"

releases multiple items every season that lock slots until mythic ilvl next season 💀

[upper pasture]

I mean that’s what people with mythic/hero gear is doing at this point of the season now anyways

[silent urchin]

eh this still feels like it's gonna get replaced pretty quick

Hero belts will probably be better

[upper pasture]

It will likely last until hero raid and be replaced

[ember blaze]

we'll see

i know the ring was hard locked for specs who liked mastery even vs mythic rings

[deep pawn]

Yeah, but don't do it for the last bit of the season lol

I'm just tired of it being 1%

make it 5% or don't bother

[upper pasture]

Were these items conceived as a “last push” for people struggling with clearing their chosen content?

[deep pawn]

make it last only that season or whatever

1% won't make up mechanical mistakes

[upper pasture]

Naw that’s a bad take for sure, no one would really want to do a lot of work for 1% upgrade for 8 weeks

Like the HV enchants were boarder line meh cause they were small upgrades but you barely had to do anything to get it

[deep pawn]

cyrce's was just as much a grind as this belt

this belt is still like a 1-2% at best

I'm still mad the corruption enchants just turn off in s3.

[ember blaze]

yes they will 💀

casuals will do it cause huge upgrade for them and it is content, more hardcore players will do it cause they always do shit for a 1 point diff

[ember blaze]

yeah thats really dumb

[zealous sedge]

The silver lining about corruption enchants disappearing in S3 is that I barely noticed the impact for current tier. Tho it does feel like a waste of time unless you want the real wards from HV.

[ember blaze]

it's basically a trinket

[upper pasture]

doing like 6 visions for the rune really didn't take all that long tbh

and even better that you just needed to unlock it on one character and transfer the mementos over to buy on alts

[zealous sedge]

True

[blazing granite]

My theory:
Faerin’s departure from Hallowfall is her symbolic "burning away" of her old life in reference to Craishae’s ritual. In Midnight, she may undergo a literal or spiritual trial to awaken her ancestral power, becoming a beacon against the Void — similar to Craishae fighting a "terrible curse". Craishae’s mother was a Quel’Thalas noble. Faerin’s arrival in the old world may draw her to the Sunwell, with her Flame helping purify it and the rest of the invaded lands from the Void corruption.

Anduin's now fully established attachment to her (Jaina teasing them/"Jerek") suggests he’ll anchor her emotionally during that time. Faerin may almost lose herself like Craishae ("burned away" identity), but Anduin and her Hallowfall bonds will pull her back. Anduin’s role is to ensure her faith doesn’t consume her.

Would flow nicely with Illidan's "there can be no chosen one".

[rain cave]

I mean in a way, she's a good representation of the "old" alliance

which is funny, because she embodies an old world but IS from the new world

and I'd say the sums up her character pretty well in a lot of ways

[deep pawn]

Can't wait for the firey eyes customization for all elves and humans /hj

[zealous sedge]

I don’t really care about classic exclusive rewards but man those celestial mounts would be awesome if we could get them in retail

[rain cave]

can't wait for dragon eyes customisation for all races

honestly give us an evoker questline where you unlock the other races of your faction as visage formes even if they don't have a lot of extra customisations, just things like eyes/hair colours, maybe some jewellry

[ember blaze]

will probably see them in trading post

[zealous sedge]

I would buy

[glass flicker]

I'd personally vibe with more visage forms, purely because seeing human-looking girls in Orgrimmar is jarring.

[sullen dawn]

Seeing vulpera in orgrimmar (or anywhere) is jarring too

[thin warren]

Vulpies are cuties

[sullen dawn]

🤢