beta-ptr-spoilers

[lavish raptor]

tuning in bfa tw ptr is a lot better now. still some unscaled oneshots but im not getting merked

[zealous sedge]

I think for player power in midnight it would be cool if we can have an upgrade tree for your specific CD. Like for Shadowpriest using Archon we have different options for upgrading Halo or maybe Dark Ascension. Choose between increased damage vs decreased cooldown. Or for Halo specifically, allow it to damage mobs you aren’t attacking, but decrease its range. Just as an example.

Idk, I think the ability to further customize a specific spell would be kind of cool. Really take an “ultimate” ability and give it a tree.

In surprised we haven’t seen a post from Blizz telling us to tune in to the the Xbox event

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24210000

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1930308755666669891

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft)

See @EchoGuild and @LiquidGuild go head-to-head in the Dastardly Duos Creator Clash this Saturday!

Learn more: https://t.co/AWuZCWsbjm

X · Jun 4, 2025, 5:00 PM

this could be fun

[lavish raptor]

hopefully they fix the unholy dk glitch by then

[deep pawn]

how the hell do they make duos interesting to watch lol

[warm topaz]

infinite mode, pull 200 mobs lol

with 10 bosses at the same time, that could be fun to watch imo

[silent urchin]

I suspect they'll have the full set of stuff from week 4+ available

and yeah, they can spam the item to summon bosses etc

[rain cave]

I don't think karesh is necessary for 11.2

my main argument against karesh 11.2 is, the rootlands and harranir story sort of require the war within expansion space to exist properly, whils karesh doesn't

karesh can happen in midnight OR war within, but rootlands makes a lot more sense to happen in war within

not saying the rootlands CAN'T happen in midnight, but are we really going to go back an expansion for a patch? Or are we just relegating them to a .5 patch sidestory quest

[austere gazelle]

Karesh can be a dungeon, or a part of the Deepgrove raid

[rain cave]

again I'm fully expecting to be proven wrong in at least some part

maybe they can combine them, ethereals were part of the goblin patch after all

[sullen dawn]

Rootlands can happen in tlt tho

[rain cave]

but that just feels so.. wrong to me

[sullen dawn]

Feels fine to me

Especially with the eonar/amanthul stuff

In relation to the tree

[rain cave]

but then we're waiting so long for this race

that is already there and teased

[austere gazelle]

Don't think so. It's a planned zone of the isle of Dorn. TlT is focused on Northrend

[sullen dawn]

Thats ok theyre not thay interesting

[austere gazelle]

They already said they wanted to avoid spread out zone

[rain cave]

also TLT will want to focus on bigger narrative stuff

and the roots are already tied to the old god corruption stuff

[sullen dawn]

As far as im aware (not sure if confirmed or not) the rootlands/deepgrove would be central enough thst yiu could access it from any side lf the planet

[rain cave]

which will be largely mopped up by end of midnight

[sullen dawn]

Khaz algar just has the coreqay

*coreway

[rain cave]

the harranir + roots in their current place in the story are tied to the old god blood narrative

[austere gazelle]

yeah but It'd still be dissociated from TWW zone

[sullen dawn]

Pretty sure old god stuff is already done tbh, oursite kg maybe nzoth as a free agent in the future

[rain cave]

also the deepgrove petals and roses grow in khaz algar

[rain cave]

the goblin patch was all about it

the blood isn't just magically gone, it's still flowing around down there

[sullen dawn]

I dont think about zones in terms of the expansion they belong to

[rain cave]

beledar still shifts

[deep pawn]

I'm pretty sure Rootlands were the original end goal of this expansion but after the pivot who knows.

[austere gazelle]

The Black Blood is not done yet though

[sullen dawn]

I look at azeroth as a world

[rain cave]

I look at zones and patches in terms of what blizzard would make

[austere gazelle]

yeah and the Dev said that Cataclysm spread zone was confusing for players so they wont do that again

[sullen dawn]

But it wouldn't be spread out?

[deep pawn]

Like the original ending of this expansion was 100% the bottom of the Coreway and the Manifold.

[sullen dawn]

The access point would be kn Northend

[rain cave]

my main point is they can tiethe ethereal stuff to the rootlands

[sullen dawn]

They can I just hope they dont

Let's go full karesh baby

Screw the "naavi"

[rain cave]

it feels too early to do a karesh pull

[deep pawn]

That's assuming the Rootlands are a massive area under Azeroth, otherwise it makes 0 sense for you to be able to reach it.

[sullen dawn]

Only been waiting since tbc

[rain cave]

like imagine pulling antorus at the end of WoD before legion even started

[sullen dawn]

Yep thats my guess

[austere gazelle]

Quite Simple straight forward narrative : Xal wants to use the tree or whatever is there to corrupt Azeroth , the Ethereal wants to stop that somehow and destroy the tree, so we will have two choice, fuck up the Haranir and their tree or protect it somehow but helping Xal 🤷

[deep pawn]

I think K'Aresh is just not an interesting place if it's as ruined as it looks.

[sullen dawn]

It's probably the most interesting place kn wow for me

[deep pawn]

My personal guess is it's the backdrop of our final raid boss fight.

[sullen dawn]

#1

Ethereals have soooooo much knowledge

[rain cave]

to me I'd say that since Xal no longer has the dark heart, she will need something

[sullen dawn]

And its our entry point to understanding the void

[deep pawn]

K'aresh is probably a bigger Telorgus Rift, oooo, black/blue rock everywhere.

[sullen dawn]

Damn im excited for karesh

[rain cave]

perhaps a tear of elune bathed in the blood of old gods to drop into the sunwell

from what I'm seeing the dark heart was her plan A but now she's looking for a plan B

[sullen dawn]

No city ruins?

[austere gazelle]

yeah and the tree is precisely a big sponge of Black blood ^^
" Deeper and Deeper its roots will reach, welcoming our Embrace "

[sullen dawn]

Im sure they'll incorporate those "eco bubbles" from netherstorm

[rain cave]

the dark heart was basically a well of void power, the sunwell is going to be important somehow and that is also a big well of power vulnerable to void corruption

[sullen dawn]

So you can have loads of biomes inside different "domes"

[deep pawn]

It's just gonna be a worse Argus especially since they'll have had less time.

[rain cave]

we might even end up working with the ethereals who have the dark heart in midnight who knows

they're a mysterious group

[sullen dawn]

I look at it as a better netherstoem

[deep pawn]

That was already my least favorite TBC zone lol

[sullen dawn]

Haha loved it

Like this could easily be on karesh

Its within a bubble in netherstorm

[rain cave]

one of the main arguments against rootlands/deeprgrove as a final patch to me is that we just had multiple expansions in recent memory with tree drama

last expansion also in the final patch as well

[sullen dawn]

Ye

[rain cave]

and that was also under threat by voidy power

[sullen dawn]

Would feel like a rerun

[rain cave]

but maybe they could make it feel different

or maybe the harranir will be the 11.2.5 side story

[deep pawn]

I'm not particularly hopeful that a short development cycle K'aresh is gonna be that great.

[rain cave]

yee I'm not sure what they'll do with it

[lavish raptor]

i really still dont think its the confirmed-repeatedly-exploded planet

[rain cave]

hopefully it won't bo covering all of karesh

[deep pawn]

Well it'd be totally different cause that's Draenei and Draenor stuff, but yeah they could do bubbles.

[rain cave]

and it's moreso they go "here's a taster"

[austere gazelle]

it'll just be a small zone with a giant skybox xD

[rain cave]

also the cartels of ethereals fit the renown system they've set up

[lavish raptor]

korthia ass zone

[rain cave]

including the brokers

[deep pawn]

We don't need 4 new reps again

[rain cave]

we will most likely get them

in some manner

brokers, normal ethereals, good void ethereals, something else idk

[lavish raptor]

ethereals in funny hats

[sullen dawn]

Sure, I just grabbed random images

I think most netherstoem domes were put up by ethereals.

[rain cave]

tbf the relationship between goblins and ethereals could also be a link

since that was also a thing back in tbc and we saw gallywix in SL

like I'm 50/50

[sullen dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/new-hat-lisa-smithers-the-simpsons-gif-14076043

[sullen dawn]

Dr Boom 😄

[pulsar minnow]

It could also be that we’re getting a city in K’aresh that’s being preserved by a protective dome. We know ethereals are still living on K’aresh even if the planet is largely ravaged by the void

[sullen dawn]

Area 52

[pulsar minnow]

Found a guy on Twitter who made a mockup

[sullen dawn]

Or underground karesh

Since its tww

Whose to say the karesh zone isnt underground:p

[rain cave]

if TWW existed in a vacuum without DF prior, I'd say rootlands should come next, And narratively to the saga I think it makes sense to get the harranir on our side NOW before the big elf story and save karesh for the void stuff. The harranir would also fit nicely into troll/elf relations.

But mechanically? And with the context that development changed and prior expansin stories also makes me understand why karesh would be next

[lavish raptor]

yeah it would have to be fragments

because it blew up

its less whole than argus

[sullen dawn]

So did outland tbf

[lavish raptor]

we havent seen an updated outland yet

[deep pawn]

I just don't trust Blizzard to deliver a good K'aresh on a very very short development time.

[rain cave]

I can only pray we get that one day

[lavish raptor]

it apparently barely exists

[sullen dawn]

Sure but it was blown up before tbc

[lavish raptor]

yeah so was karesh which means there cant be much left of it now

[sullen dawn]

We dont reallt know the state of kareshs surface

We've see a single image

[rain cave]

I doubt we'll be on the surface as a hub

[lavish raptor]

that we are assuming is karesh

[sullen dawn]

Yeh me neither

[lavish raptor]

like literally was never confirmed

[sullen dawn]

But who knows

[rain cave]

more likely we're getting antorus the purple throne ahh patch

[sullen dawn]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

[rain cave]

not saying I won't

I trust they'll make something cool, the art department never fails

also I'm eager to see how they spin alleria in this patch since I feel like it could be the beginning of her stakes going up

[upper pasture]

you know what i thought of last night, remember those "leaked" expansion areas that we all dismissed cause it was all purple and space theme

[rain cave]

if it indeed is a mirror patch to antorus, where we saw alleria embrace her void powers, and others accept her more. Then we could get a narrative foil where she is set on the path of madness

[upper pasture]

what if that was the early dev stuff for karesh?

[pulsar minnow]

Also keep in mind that Argus was like, the end of a massive chapter of WoW. (Also it wasn’t that big at all, it felt like it was bc no flying). K’aresh is just the beginning. My feeling is we’ll actually be on the capital of the ethereals with the planet itself behind the city sort of like how the blood moon framed bwonsamdis area in nazmir

[rain cave]

it is fully within Xalatath's playbook to realize how capable Alleria is, disguise herself as turalyon to get close to her and wait to steal the dark heart back. But then also trick Alleria into killing the REAL turalyon

by making her think it's xal in disguise

[sullen dawn]

Well hopefully no flying on karesh too

[rain cave]

there's a blackhole in the middle we need sticky shoes for all our mounts if you try fly you get sucked away

[pulsar minnow]

I’d like flying but if it’s as small as undermine… I’ll be very disappointed

[lavish raptor]

i mean its going to be small

it blew up

if anything exists of it itll be fragments

[pulsar minnow]

Dude

[rain cave]

yeah but look at tazavesh, they can just build in space

[lavish raptor]

the only evidence we have of it still existing is:

1. some guy stared at purple thingy in space for 5 seconds
2. npc from TBC saying he came down from there

so it cant be much

[rain cave]

there is still a whole planet btw

[pulsar minnow]

https://static.icy-veins.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/wow-news-karesh-1.webp

[rain cave]

note the giant bits

[pulsar minnow]

Jinx

lol

[lavish raptor]

ok so big purple space thingy

[rain cave]

it's not habitable by life anymore sure but there is still a lot of rock around it

[pulsar minnow]

That is K’aresh

[rain cave]

the purple thing appears to be the absent world soul or a corrupted whatever or a portal we aren't sure

[lavish raptor]

was it stated directly in the text

[sullen dawn]

Its habitable by ethereals

They literally talk about going back tk karesh multiple times

[rain cave]

anythings habitable by them they don't breathe or eat

[sullen dawn]

I know

[pulsar minnow]

Context clues man. We literally started the expansion with an exposition dump about the planet

[sullen dawn]

Im just saying they likely have some sort of "living structure"

[rain cave]

but also I imagine that they live on stations around it, probably build on bits of rock but also more extended off of them

[sullen dawn]

Whether that be domes, platforms, underground k
I dont know

[pulsar minnow]

They most definitely are going to reveal that a major outpost survived under a dome

[sullen dawn]

Yep been a bunch of us calling karesh since day 0

[deep pawn]

It just was clearly not the original plan unless it was supposed to be 11.1

[deep pawn]

so for that I remain skeptical.

And I still think Ethereals make less sense playable than SL races do.

[lavish raptor]

i think i just really dislike the concept of "the planet WAS OBLITERATED except this tiny portion we will mostly ignore talking about that we just decided existed still"

[upper pasture]

eh, they are atleast the same plain of existence

[rain cave]

Niffthereals

[sullen dawn]

The stsrt of the expansion was basically like "ethereals will play a major role!!!!"

[pulsar minnow]

I mean correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Argus also considered destroyed until it was revealed in 7.2

[deep pawn]

They can invade the Rootlands

[sullen dawn]

It was kind of hard to miss

Screw the rootlands lol

[lavish raptor]

yeah and i dont think it was a good move tbh lol

i mean it makes sense for Legion to end with sargeras losing obviously

but "my home world is DESTROYED" actually being "it became less inhabitable than I'd like it to be" makes the stakes lower

[rain cave]

I mean, if the earth was turned into a barren wasteland with its core exposed and cleaved

you'd probably say that too

[pulsar minnow]

So you’re saying “this could happen” and not “it looks like this is going to happen”

[rain cave]

the helm of domination was "destroyed" but its fragments were still there and relevant

[lavish raptor]

the devs like watching people argue about it

[pulsar minnow]

Like you’re welcome to want rootlands. I want it too over K’aresh but the story just isn’t going that way

[rain cave]

same with frostmourne

[lavish raptor]

thats why they're staving off the 11.2 announcement

[rain cave]

Argus, as a world with an ecosystem and innocent people, oceans, etc was destroyed

it was turned into a hollow burning husk with a military base on it

[lavish raptor]

yeah and look what happened with that. we got SL

sylvanas should have done a better job of destroying the stupid hat of controlley

[rain cave]

tbf she didnt break it to destroy it

she broke it to open the shadowlands

[deep pawn]

I don't think the story is saying "Go off world in the underground expansion at all."

I think K'aresh at most is gonna be a backdrop to a single boss fight

[lavish raptor]

yeah this makes more sense to me

[rain cave]

I'm still not entirely sure about the mechanics of helmet destroyed = portal open lol xD

but it happened

[upper pasture]

god i hope not

[pulsar minnow]

That would be a massive waste of a location imo

[lavish raptor]

and then they used the hat frags to make a different portal

[deep pawn]

The Ethereals want to see Azeroth's World Soul to do something with their own, invade the rootlands to get to the core.

partially succeed

we chase back to K'aresh

[rain cave]

I'm actually not sure about what they were used for, they said it was to teleport in but also.. the portal is there?

like just fly through?

[upper pasture]

we used the fragments to make the pportal to ZM

[rain cave]

does bolvar get bad chafing on gryphon back now since he's so crispy?

[rain cave]

I meant at SL launch

the portal above icecrown and the one we then also used at the top of icecrown to.. portal into the portal

[lavish raptor]

ya where you drag the fragments to the spot and clicked on it that i did like 50 times

[upper pasture]

they used them to open a portal to SLs for use to chase after our allies?

[lavish raptor]

thats what we're saying just fly up

[rain cave]

there was already a portal, literally above them as they were doing it

[lavish raptor]

[upper pasture]

i'm assuming that is not a stable connection

we didn't have true travel between azeroth and shadowlands until we opened portals back home after the maw intro

[glass flicker]

You know what's funny? Torghast canonically is a never-ending tower full of horrors with ever-shifting floors and environments.

[rain cave]

I mean stable enough for others to get dragged through it, for sylvanas to go through it. And even portallign in ourselves with the fragments left a bunch of people scattered and disorganized

[glass flicker]

In gameplay, though? Like twelve of them.

[rain cave]

tbf that's because the maw was the only portal out to azeroth and in

and it was guarded

[lavish raptor]

i guess it was in ptr

[pulsar minnow]

Torghast was the biggest waste of such a good feature. Not gonna lie I prefer them over delves. But there was just never any good reason to run Torghast that wasn’t a shitty legendary

[rain cave]

I'd love to see a glimpse of SL development blizz

[glass flicker]

I wish Blizzard had the technology to create procedurally generated areas. Add some randomness to how things connect.

[upper pasture]

jailers gaunlet tho. that was more than 12 no?

[glass flicker]

Make the tower actually feel like it's shifting.

[upper pasture]

honestly i want unlimited torghast back

[glass flicker]

I meant floors.

[glass flicker]

Based.

[deep pawn]

So I do think it's absolutely possible for us to still go to the Rootlands over K'aresh even with an Ethereal Raid.

[rain cave]

with how player housing works I do think they have the tech for this

[glass flicker]

Then again, Shadowlands had the best villain ever. I doubt they could have allocated resources from rendering his nipples to creating some fun gameplay interactions in his tower.

[deep pawn]

What I'm looking at is what we've been told of the development of this expansion originally and it didn't involve K'aresh at all.

[glass flicker]

This guy is great.

Gotta love George.

George the Jailer.

[deep pawn]

I just think the story shifted too late to be anywhere but the Rootlands, especially since we saw bits of it in beta.

[rain cave]

"Danuser can we delve into the jailers lore and develop his story so he's not just boom voice mcevil?"
"No, more polygons on the nips." Whip crack

a big failing for me looking at the jailer is that his design actually makes no sense past the gaping whole in his chest and the runes to me

and the chains at a stretch

[lavish raptor]

i think he would have slayed harder if he wore rune-shaped nipple pasties

[rain cave]

and you may think, that's everything though

[glass flicker]

BWAHAHAHAH, totally something Dan the User would do.

[rain cave]

but WHY do these random gods look so humanoid? why does the jailer just straight up look like an elf? why are his ears elven? Why does he just look like a random guy? Why when his armour is back on does he look all evil? Wouldn't he retain his arbiter aesthetic?

you could say he chose it after or it's domination, but his fucking mace that he drops even says it's his gavel from when he was an arbiter! He's just deciding to be edgy!

we never got to see what the jailer looked like before, so we never saw how hard he falled

[glass flicker]

My two cents on this is that he chose to alter his aesthetic fully, but he was the one creating the "snake eating snake" aesthetic that Oribos has.

And maybe that was his to begin with.

[rain cave]

and a compelling villain, especially one who's entire plotpoint revolves around climbing back out of the deepest reaches. Should have a part where we see how far he has to climb

[lavish raptor]

it took me way too long to realize Oribos is a pun on ouroboros and that there were ouroboros tiles on the ground

i never got over the zone reminding me of an airport

[rain cave]

there was so much untapped lore potential in SL that was replaced with first ones and backtracking weirdness

or they just drop something one time and move on

never bringing it up

[glass flicker]

The one storyline I wanted was with Anduin and Tiffin.

You know. His friggin' mom.

Seeing her in the Maw as a soul the Jailer kept to torture Anduin with, freeing her, and her being the reason Anduin is able to fight back, alongside the guidance of Saurfang and Varian? Would have been peak.

[deep pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/agQhPPmYAyQ Delve preview

Confirms belt works outside delves

[rain cave]

also cairne and baine... thrall and his mom (more than what we got).... Uther and Jaina, Sylvanas interacting with more people she's harmed, not just shafting arthas into a little spark to be forgotten, Kaelthas being more important, garrosh, the tauren sunwalker guy finding his family, exploraiton of different cultures interactions with the shadowlands rather than invalidating a lot of them or just handwaiving them as offscreen

SL kind of conceptually fails to be what it set out to be in a lot of ways

[glass flicker]

Shadowlands had the potential to be the biggest expansion ever. And it was supposed to be.

According to Mr. Danuser, Shadowlands is the end of the Jailer's Machinations saga.

So, why did it have less story than WoD?

[rain cave]

you can argue covid

but also mismanagment

[silent urchin]

Cause afrasiabi wrote most of it and then forcibly fucked off without telling anyone how it was meant to go

[rain cave]

not very clear signposting on what they wanted to do

[rain cave]

that too

[glass flicker]

This. Absolutely. 1000% correct.

[rain cave]

but even mechanically the ripcord was promised but there was never evidence of it existing

they added it later

and I say this as someone who actually likes the idea of covenants at least in concept

[glass flicker]

The only good things Shadowlands had were the transmogs, Denathrius, bringing back PvP vendors, and bringing back tier sets.

[rain cave]

but the QoL for it was to late on, it should have been day one

[glass flicker]

But can you really call not messing up a success?

[rain cave]

and race options

but also bringing back removed things that were critiques in the first place is nice but also feels wrong to call it a positive of the expansion

like genuinely what the fuck happened where they removed class sets and tier bonuses for nearly 2 expansions

[zealous sedge]

they are increasing bountiful delves from 4 to 6?

[silent urchin]

No. There are only 6 that have an overcharged variant, two of them are available each day

they may or may not be bountiful

video seems wrong. Unless things have changed since I last looked on PTR

[zealous sedge]

oh that makes sense. The video makes it seems like 6 bountiful delves a day, with 2 of them being overcharged

[deep pawn]

they uploaded the pax east panel, interesting

[zealous sedge]

No blog post about the Xbox event yet

I’m impatient

[sullen dawn]

They might not

ESO expansions and patches just get show at xbox events with no tease

[deep pawn]

Could be a tease at the duos event on Saturday

No ptr until after the patch launch would just make me sad since that'll mean no story mode before Gamescom

[sullen dawn]

I expect ptr next week

Week before 11.1.7

[deep pawn]

I do too, but people seem set on after the patch which would make sense if the datamining didn't suggest a short patch

[deep pawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1l3buyv/classic_changes_survey/

This was interesting.

[glass fulcrum]

wow token in classic+ lmaoo

[ember blaze]

💀

uh oh the retail players are gonna be mad

even though they can already make one 🤔

hmm

surely classic doesnt get bard before we do 😡

[rain cave]

I'd laugh

But also it fits better there than retail

Atleast for now

[upper pasture]

this along with player housing was something i asked Ion for at blizzcon, i want rewards for playing all types of wow sorta like the mount for retail for playing classic intro. i also want accountwide achievement tracking for all verisons of wow too! what a collectors dream that would be lol

like i want classic pre WotLK to get achievements and it just be another tab you can look at sorta like the achievements/guild/statistics tabs just add a tab for each verison of wow

[ember blaze]

that sounds different from the above 🤔

i dont want to fish better if i have 20 fishing alts

[upper pasture]

yes, it DOES sound different which is why i said "i'd ALSO like" lol

[upper pasture]

why not?

[ember blaze]

well i kinda like to focus on one thing on one character. My main has jewelcrafting and I dont want to get incentives to go do that same grind all over again on other characters...

if anything it should make it easier to do things on other alts if i wanna do that

but not the other way around

[upper pasture]

you wouldn't have to? maybe the perk would be looting more gems from X mobs or more stats from gems

[ember blaze]

more stats from gems? 💀

[upper pasture]

i'm sure it most likely wont be that one

[ember blaze]

u want to tie power to this?

[upper pasture]

sure idgaf let people play the game. people who play should be entitled to rewards, leveling a profession isn't really "hard" to do

there's like zero skill behind getting a profession to max anyhow

[ember blaze]

the point is i dont want those things after being forced to level 20 alts and level the same profession 20 times

[upper pasture]

who says you'd need to level 20 of the same profession to get all the points? it will likely be tied to achievement points, you don't earn double achievement points when reearning one of those

one character cannot do all the professions (at once) but 7 characters can.

[rain cave]

Maybe 0 to 100 but it's hard to max it after your there

I've been struggling with professions on all my toons, and I'm doing it at start of expansion usually

Can't make any money

[upper pasture]

yeah but there's no achievement for maxxing out the skill trees just leveling the profession

[deep pawn]

I'll be really mad if they let classic players in mop transfer all their crap

I didn't play cause I was told it wouldn't

[sullen dawn]

I could see classic getting a bard like class but never retail

[sullen dawn]

But classic mop isnt even out yet

[sullen dawn]

There's a lot of gamers out there who weirdly think committing time to a game is a skill and justifies a reward

Time commitments are time commitments. Skill is mechanical

[deep pawn]

apparently one of the answers to the survey was to say "Transfer my MoP classic character to retail"

[sullen dawn]

I know im just saykng mop classic hasn't started

So you didnt miss out

[sullen dawn]

^^ no one played yet :p

[deep pawn]

There's stuff from classic and TBC I passed up on with the concept they'd never be on retail.

[sullen dawn]

Ah

They probably wont transfer items or it will be restricted

It'll be a 'fake" transfer

[deep pawn]

who knows

If it transfers I'm getting all the cmod sets

[ember blaze]

cant wait for legion remix to get the artifact weps

[harsh mason]

Delves is actually part of the open world content. So the belt works in the open world.

[deep pawn]

We've already known and this confirms the main belt works everywhere.

Outside delves means everywhere

if it didn't include instanced content it would say so

only the panel stuff is inside

some people had hoped it would be delves only

[sullen dawn]

I hope for it too, but you make a lot of assumptions :p

[deep pawn]

There's not many artifacts I'm missing but maybe they add recolors

[ember blaze]

oh i meant legion classic, not remix

[glass flicker]

I hope Legion Remix doesn't have recolored leveling sets, 'cause they weren't great.

Recolor dungeon and raid sets, sure, but not the leveling ones.

[lime girder]

Hey guys, pls tell me about Flexible raid on MoP, its be on 1st phase, or like in Vanilla MoP on 5?

[rain cave]

Tbf that should just unlock on your whole account if you just do them in mop classic

Without tranafer

[rain cave]

this does make me wonder how some of the artifact stuff will be done

because getting them or some of their skins required you leaving the broken isles

[glass flicker]

Assuming artifacts will be back.

[rain cave]

so will legion remix characters be able to leave the broken isles?

legion remix without the artifacts would be sacrilege

[silent urchin]

panda remix let you for the couple quests that went outside it

[rain cave]

since mop remix was framed as connected to the bronze/infinite stuff, and the point was to try discover knowledge and secrets from the past or w/e

if legion remix is coming in the midnight pre-order phase, or atleast after TWW is done and the setup for midnight is on the way

would make sense for them to frame it as like, how did we repel an invasion before? lets go back and also learn about xalatath as a spriest, what did sargeras want, etc

[sullen dawn]

Tune in during the upcoming XBOX Showcase event for an exclusive look at Patch 11.2: Echoes of K'aresh!

[uncut vault]

Is that speculation, or something official?

[lavish raptor]

nothing comes up when i search for it so the source is probably 🍑

[deep pawn]

Just as likely as the person who said "Song of the Depths." 😄

[lavish raptor]

11.2 Patch Reveal: Purple, Purple Everywhere

[zealous sedge]

They’ll post something tomorrow

Or were doomed

To wallow in impatience

[pulsar minnow]

Announcing it at the Xbox Showcase is probably the best shot we have this week

[thin warren]

wallows

[sullen dawn]

Neither just me being silly

[rain cave]

11.2 reveal: fuck you it's actually kobyss

[thin warren]

Brr, voidmurlocs

[deep pawn]

I feel like the underground sea is another loose thread that won't get answers if we go spacefaring

[rain cave]

Maybe it gets readdressed with a naga story in midnight

Like perhaps the kobyss will come out of the underground sea and start taking territory from the naga, with them being the new void assigned sea creatures. The naga don't get any help from their queen and come ask us for help out of desperation

[deep pawn]

Maybe. I still think we could see Naga help us under orders and then stick with us after Azshara betrays everyone

[sullen dawn]

Lmao

Wouldn't even be mad for the fallout

[pulsar minnow]

I could see the underground ocean coming back in 13.0. It seems pretty clear that we’re not done exploring under the surface of Azeroth, and we’re gonna go back under to check out the worldcore and whatever lies beneath Northerend

[sullen dawn]

I feel the same way about Deepgrove

/rootlands

Feels more like a 13.0 thing

[pulsar minnow]

I mean I feel like a parrot the amount of times I said it but like- the seed WAS planted by Eonar in what is most likely Un’goro

Being an Eonar and Elune plotline, wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be in the story in 13.0 when Eonar is around?

[sullen dawn]

Yes

But theres a few rootlands tww diehards haha

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like reminding Eonar of Elun’ahir will be our plot hook to get her help to overthrow Aman’thul

[sullen dawn]

There will a lot of eonar and amanthul focus in that plotnimo

[sullen dawn]

Yes

4 titans will help us imo

Civil war

Eonar, sargeras, khaz and one more

[pulsar minnow]

I do love that everyone’s like unanimously agreed that we’re just gonna kill Golganeth

[sullen dawn]

Yeh lmao

Although I think yer man will kill him

Iridikrond

[pulsar minnow]

Agree

[sullen dawn]

He'll take out one titan imo

[pulsar minnow]

I could see Aggramar siding with Aman’thul for a while until he sees the orcs and how his creations have lived on despite the loss of their planet. But I’m also biased in that I just really like Agg

[sullen dawn]

Poor golganeth no one likes him lol

[sullen dawn]

Yeh although not sure hed forgive sargeras?

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t know. I’d love to see him come together with Sargeras in the end

[sullen dawn]

Yeh at the end for sure

[pulsar minnow]

Maybe the two of them sacrificing themselves in the end. Totally not inspired by a certain TV show from riot…

[sullen dawn]

:p

Honestly k think only 2-3 titans will make it through

Eonar for sure

And I think Norgannon might be the mastermind but thats just a wild guess

[pulsar minnow]

Really wonder how they’d manage massacring half a cosmic pantheon

Story-wise I mean

Unless they plan to see casualties across all 6 pantheons in the final fight

[deep pawn]

My issue is that TLT is likely full of content just with Iridikron, a middle tier that sets up the betrayal, and then killing the Titans

There's not space there for a ton of underground crap below Ungoro

[pulsar minnow]

I mean we have no idea what the story is

That could literally just be the first patch

[deep pawn]

We have a good idea.

[pulsar minnow]

Second being un goro

Third worldcore

Hell it doesn’t even have to be un goro. They could say the roots are under scholozar

[deep pawn]

Its possible Ungoro is second, but I think Ulduar into World Core is our final raid.

[sullen dawn]

The base expansion will be the roots imo

13.0

13.1 irid/storms peak

13.2 worldsoul

[deep pawn]

Remember the original final raid was absolutely gonna be Manifold and World Core as the Earthen rebel to get their memories

[sullen dawn]

Yeh i think manifold is final tlt raid

Post tww being shifted into twss anyway

[deep pawn]

I've already made peace that the Earthen plot is on hold and that's why Moira and Magni got put on a bus

[sullen dawn]

Yeh tww isn't its own story anymore

Its a setup for the story

[deep pawn]

Also probably why Dawn isn't an Azerite Earthen anymore

[sullen dawn]

Stuff obviously got moved around

If TWW was self contained I would totally agree with you

[deep pawn]

Dawn and Orwenya likely were gonna be our Order and Life Speaker parallels

[pulsar minnow]

Dawn’s gems are azerite. Her in game model just doesn’t show that because they probably couldn’t be bothered to actually implement those crystals for one npc

[deep pawn]

Eh... I'm not sure on that. I'm pretty sure we datamined Azerite options that didn't get implemented

[pulsar minnow]

They didn’t

[deep pawn]

Dawns story likely just got cut

TLT better be amazing or else I'd question why they had to gut TWW.

All things considered we're lucky we got 3 tiers

(another reason why I think we still do Rootlands, if you work off the assumption Undermine is a rush job which is why it's small)

Rootlands are likely mostly complete vs creating a whole new area.

People already speculate that the reason the raid reuses the zone is because they didn't have time

[pulsar minnow]

I mean I def agree with you on TWW feeling gutted. I’m really disappointed in how the plot hasn’t felt like it’s moved that much at all from the first patch. As cool as it was to get the anniversary armor sets and the whole event- it really took the wind out of the sails of the first patch

[deep pawn]

Goblins are cool but it's absolutely a side quest

[pulsar minnow]

We had a really strong start with this story but the existence of the saga makes it feel like they have a leash and can’t reveal all their cards that they had planned to drop

We’re kinda just stuck waiting for now to find out about this cosmic conspiracy and what the titans are doing

[deep pawn]

I mean the original plot was gonna be so fast. Like originally we'd have already killed Xal and are waiting for the Titans

Legacy of Arathor only works in the context of 12.0 being Avaloren for example

I just want the patch reveal so I can be happy or angry haha. I'll be very honest that K'aresh may make me skip the tier cause I don't like the story going there.

[pulsar minnow]

That’s fair. I’ve never been a big fan of goblins so i just got KSM, fully upgraded my hero tier set, then logged for the rest of this patch 💀

[deep pawn]

K'aresh just feels wrong for TWW and Blizzard promising stories on Azeroth

[sullen dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/critical-role-feels-good-like-it-gif-7274709

[tropic trail]

Ethereal allied race 👏

[sullen dawn]

Pleasssseeee

Although id be holding off making one until tinker/artificer arrives in tlt

[tropic trail]

This is like my every morning 😆

Hahaha

[sullen dawn]

Sans the dirty flag i hope

[tropic trail]

Living in Europe so there is another flag lol

[sullen dawn]

Yeh but that ones good

[zealous sedge]

Blizz please

Let us know

If you’re gonna be at the Xbox live event

[sullen dawn]

Bethesda online studios i don't think say before xbox event. Maybe Microsoft will have same structure for blizz now

[zealous sedge]

Damn Blizz just relegated to just another studio under the auspices of capitalism

Once legendary company turned acquisition

They are just a % of Microsoft, and not even a big one at that. 😭

[sullen dawn]

Pretty much tbh

Summer games fest doesnt even have actiivisom, Bethesda, blizzard etc.. listed

Just xbox

[zealous sedge]

That’s sad

[sullen dawn]

Its all "Xbox Games Studios" and "Xbox Game Studios Publishing" now

For 1st party and partnership deals respectively

[deep pawn]

Ugh, classic, 11.2 and the next FF14 patch are all releasing in a 3 week period

[rain cave]

Wouldn't we rather get more mortal oriented cosmology though, like the earthen. Meet and understand the harranir before their literal gods show up

In this expansion we've only focused on mortal impacts of larger cosmic games, the earthen were just pawns to the titans and we helped them realise a purpose. The arathi were teleported down here by forces unknown, they pray to a shard of something they barely understand. The nerubians fought in wars for old gods masters, their culture was stained by it and only now are they truly beginning to move on.

The harranir are the same, they protect something sacred, for a god they don't know. Their way of life is influenced by cosmic forces far above

Even on a character level, we see dalaran destroyed and khadgar injured by xalatath, mortal wonders toppled in a chess game we aren't even fully aware of. Alleria uses the void knowing it's just another power, while whispers from beyond seek to drive her mad.
Anduin is learning to have faith in himself again, after his world view was challenged and he was powerless against a death god

You can even look at moira, who's family bears scars from a mortal conflict yes, but her husband was forced to serve ragnaros. Whilst fighting dragons above. Elementals would not have been bound and the black dragons would not have gone mad without interference from titans and old gods

The whole theme of this expansion is the war WITHIN, where we are challenged not so much in combat, but by new knowledge of the reality of the situation, that we are just.. people on a rock, one that faceless gods from beyond a veil seek to own for an unknown reason.

So yeah that's my ted talk on why deep grove/ rootlands makes more sense thematically to me

[pulsar minnow]

No not really

Eonar isn’t really their god either.

Azeroth is their god

As it stand the Haranir want nothing to do with us, and any contact with us is considered incredibly dangerous to what they protect. Simply put, Elun’ahir isn’t just an ordinary world tree. From how it’s described it very likely has a massive hand to play in the radiant song and the giant cosmic conspiracy that the saga seeks to build up to and reveal in the last Titan. And again - it’s HEAVILY related to not just Eonar but also ELUNE as well.

[sullen dawn]

And gamescom is on

Plus midnight alpha likely starts then too

[deep pawn]

nah, alpha isn't until November I'd say

[sullen dawn]

Ehhhhh

Prepatch is likely December so no lol

Possibly January

But thats not enough time

[deep pawn]

Prepatch is not December, its 11.2.7

[sullen dawn]

Midnight is probably releasing in February

[deep pawn]

February or March will always been the likely expansion times.

[sullen dawn]

Yes

But prepwrch comes a month before that which is January

Which is when I think prepafch is, late December at a stretch

But possibly prepafch is earlier and longer with housing involved

I expect alpha to start no later than September

[deep pawn]

expect rouhgly 8 weeks

[sullen dawn]

😦

Id like they to do a longer alpha

Depends on midnight features tho. And if housing will be tested in alpha or as a separate dedicated test realm

Or if its tested physically at all!

[deep pawn]

Betas get shorter and shorter and you know it

11.2.7 in December with remix, expect that to last 2-3 months.

[sullen dawn]

I know 😦 just hoping for longer with such huge systems coming in (housing)

But yeh depends if they plan tk test that as part of alpha or not

[sullen dawn]

So youre saying preparch march, launch april?

Seems late

People ar3 expecting d4 expansion around then

[deep pawn]

Prepatch early Feb, expansion March

[sullen dawn]

Then d4 in june?

They'll want a 2 month gap

And the next season after the march season isnt until june

[deep pawn]

they don't care

[sullen dawn]

They do

Lat time it eas co-ordinated

Between TWW and VoH

[deep pawn]

Just saying, remix lasts all winter which is 12/20-3/20

[rain cave]

Orweyna is the only one following azeroth

Also orweyna seems to be the eyes of green

[sullen dawn]

No confirmation of that

[rain cave]

To me at least

[deep pawn]

roadmap is pretty damn clear

it's a winter thing

which for Blizzard is late december

[sullen dawn]

For start times, not lengths

Well see

[zealous sedge]

Other than housing in midnight what new features are we gonna see?

• new iteration of delves (will it still be called delves?) I feel like the name fits for TWW cause we are delving underneath the earth. Idrc about the semantics that much though. More curious how they will evolve. Personally I want the ability to get myth track for delves but they need to be extremely hard. Or give us a way to upgrade our 8/8 heroic track gear to Myth track with some semi-rare currency.

[deep pawn]

MoP Remix lasted 3 months into prepatch for example.

[zealous sedge]

Expanded hero talents… UI updates… combat updates… I’m not really sure what else. I think housing is basically the feature and everything else is small evergreen updates.

[uncut vault]

The question of how they're going to expand on hero talents is one I'm very interested to get answers to

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that’s been my thing too. Just 10 new nodes? Or something else

[uncut vault]

The system came about due to a lack of desire to just add downward progression to the existing talent trees, so I'll be curious if they aim to avoid a similar situation with hero talents

[zealous sedge]

I just hope it’s not a borrowed power feature but I feel like borrowed power is inevitable otherwise they just scrap the talent tree in the next level squish.

[sullen dawn]

We are super in the dark there

Honestly I havd better guesses at TLT features than the non-housing midnight features

[zealous sedge]

Yeah I’m just speculating. Delves have been a success though and hope they iterate on it.

[deep pawn]

I really don't think they expand hero talents

There'll be a new power system.

I still wanna see them repurpose the Netherlight Crucible to give you a few choices between void or light enhancements to your kit.

[zealous sedge]

Yeah there’s this sort of upper limit to the talent system right? At some point your talent nodes can only do so much because of the complexity limit, and it will just be static buffs. So it’s either borrowed power or redoing the tree but we are only at lvl 80 so it’s. It like they’ll do a squish this time.

[deep pawn]

14.0's level squish will come with a systems reset no matter what

[zealous sedge]

Although they did mention a stat squish in midnight

[zealous sedge]

You don’t think we’ll go to 100?

[deep pawn]

yeah, Midnight is just stats.

14.0 is after 100

[zealous sedge]

Ohh shit

Yeah

Whoops

[sullen dawn]

Oh I love speculating on features, I just have 0 guesses for midnvijt except maybe a couple dynamic ground mounts families with most coming later in midnight? Or some ethereal or naga race. I guess hero talent iterations

[zealous sedge]

Personally I like borrowed power as long as it’s thematic. Like legion artifacts were great. I think it’s just about how they execute it.

[sullen dawn]

I would say the world tier difficulty mode theyre experiemting kn legion remix but I think thays a tlt feature

[deep pawn]

If Blizzard can fix the half of hero trees that are missing the mark still maybe expanding them will be fine, but right now, the system isn't strong enough for that

[zealous sedge]

We also might have a class

[sullen dawn]

I expect that in tlt wkth tinker/artificer

[zealous sedge]

I agree. My shadowpriest hero talents are lack luster

[sullen dawn]

Unless they do back to back classes

[deep pawn]

Rogue trees are trash, monks are boring, DH's don't like Aldrachi, etc.

I still think we just get Void Hunter as a spec in Midnight for DHs with race expansion for them.

[zealous sedge]

This would be great

Or what if they did an extra spec for every class except druids

Delete hero talents

Shaman tank spec let’s go

[deep pawn]

Nightborne and Void Elves just use the existing meta forms, Naga get special snakey ones.

I don't think they'd do all classes, but DH stands out as the only 2 spec class

even Evokers got their third

[zealous sedge]

True

[deep pawn]

and DH is the "elf class."

[sullen dawn]

Celestial is fun with windwalker

[zealous sedge]

Evoker void class a la deathwing but less descent into madness?

[sullen dawn]

Please no

Just tinker 🙂

[zealous sedge]

I think it could be cool

But yes tinker

[sullen dawn]

Another dragon class?

[zealous sedge]

Sorry not class

[sullen dawn]

Maybe as spec for evoker or hero tree

[zealous sedge]

Evoker spec

[sullen dawn]

Ah

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that’s what I meant my b

[deep pawn]

one of 3, woo

[rain cave]

New hero talents I hope

[sullen dawn]

Luckily the one i play

[rain cave]

Either void, elf or whatever fits best themed

[sullen dawn]

Everyone gets an elf hero spec

Which makes you appear as an elf

[rain cave]

Like spellbreaker warrior would be fun. But also a void mage

[sullen dawn]

Elf only expansion

Mandatory hero tree

[rain cave]

Blood Knight paladin tree

[sullen dawn]

Those would be better as glyphs but yeh

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24206305/its-electric-power-up-with-overcharged-delves got an overcharged delve preview, nothing about xbox showcase

[deep pawn]

I fully believe third hero trees for specs just will fall flat cause either they're the best and everyone swaps and abandons the original, or they're not the best and they're wasted design space.

[sullen dawn]

What if theyre extremely close balance wise, but thematically distinct

[deep pawn]

doesn't matter, and blizzard never gets tuning that close for most things

[sullen dawn]

True, but wow team certainly better than d4 team in thay regard :p

[deep pawn]

outside of Enhancement shaman, at best you get a raid hero tree and a dungeon hero tree.

[sullen dawn]

Tbh I dont factor power into my choice at all but I know im an outlier there

[warm topaz]

also, Ion said that, at some point in the future (probably TLT or 14.0) they will need to revamp the talent tree

so, curious about what they are going to do with Hero Talents in Midnight

[sullen dawn]

My guess ks post tlt

They'll probably remove hero talents and incorporate them into core tree with big changes

And come up witj some new system to go on top

[rain cave]

I think the best bet is to let the "third" specs be more wild

every spec already has 2 other specs to choose from for more normal playstyles

let the third specs do crazy stuff, like let rogues use a 2 handed weapon or something

personally think they should just go for it and deal with the ramifications as a learning experience

or if not rogues, let enhance use 2 handers. They can already equip them

and I imagine enhance players would appreciate 2 handed windfury coming back as a playstyle

[deep pawn]

I just disagree since adding them just devalues the existing hero trees for the specs. Expanding horizontally just leaves people out.

[rain cave]

and I disagree I think all it does is open up more playstyles for people to try

[deep pawn]

Try sure? But if they don't like it? May as well not exist for them in their spec.

just too many downsides for little payoff and it just complicates balancing more.

[sullen dawn]

Not everythkng is for everyone

Evoker may as well not exist fkr me as ill never play it

[rain cave]

yes it's not expected that everyone will play every spec

[sullen dawn]

Options are good

[rain cave]

also allows them to add things that aren't in the game as classes but also not represnted within class fantasy

[deep pawn]

They didn't have enough solid ideas for every class now

[rain cave]

and allows them to do MORE with that rather than just a few talents

yes but my point is that, for example, blademaster

blademaster is not enough of a fantasy for a full class

but it would fit perfectly as a 3rd hero talent option

if it was more overhauly

are there usability issues? definetly, like if blademaster overhauled too much and embraced the no armour/light armour playstyle

and used agility instead

[deep pawn]

yeah, that's not gonna happen

[rain cave]

there's usability issues there related to people then having a completely different set of gear

and functionality

[deep pawn]

They explicitly said they didn't want to change armors/weapons

[rain cave]

but I think blizz should start from ideas like that, and work back

and figure out how to get to that fantasy whilst not creating design issues for players

like literally even if you just did part of blademaster being your strength is converted to agility

there's no mechanical difference other than basically renaming your strength to agility, and then also allowing you to use agility trinks

[deep pawn]

that messes loot tables, not gonna happen

[rain cave]

more of a niche interaction than messing with loot tables

[deep pawn]

adding warriors to agi trinkets messes loot tables

[sullen dawn]

Gear needs a MAJOR overhaul but itll likely never happen

Maybe after TWSS

[rain cave]

who said anything about this

i just said they could technically use them

not that it would be added to their loot tables

even then, raids don't use that kind of drop anymore I believe

[deep pawn]

vault does

[rain cave]

yeah, so don't add it to vault

[deep pawn]

then why make it even useable

it won't happen

[rain cave]

just means that technically, if an agi trinket drops a blademaster warr could use it

[deep pawn]

nah, that's degenerate

won't happen

[rain cave]

who knows

I just think blizz should take some wilder design swings with hero talents

now that we have "basic" ones

[sullen dawn]

"Degenerate" is a bit much of a descriptor lmao

[deep pawn]

Okay, either it's some niche loot option where they have to pray someone can trade it to them or loot it to them in raids, or it's added to the class loot and dilutes their pool further

Just on its face its terrible design and would never happen.

[rain cave]

I am aware

but enhancement shamans can also equip 2h

and are not able to get them from a loot table

or use them

[deep pawn]

and warriors can equip daggers and bows, means nothing, just left over classic stuff.

Different beast than adding stuff now

[granite flame]

Blademaster is better as a windwalker class skin than warrior, IMO

[rain cave]

it really isn't imo xD

since blademasters exist outside of the monk fantasy in wow

and they live adjacent to the arms warrior fantasy

like how would you justify a blademaster summoning xuen, and doing jade lightning

[granite flame]

You don't, the same way you don't justify an arms warrior using agility, wearing light armor and using mirror image and wind walk

[rain cave]

whereas I feel like if you made blademaster a hero spec for arms and even did something as simple as "sweeping strikes now summons clones of you instead of providing a cleave buff"

and then those clones just mimmick your abilities like the WW thing

[rain cave]

I don't understand what you mean here xD

but yeah from a thematic and mechanic perspective, I don't think WW fits blademasters well. Since you're clashing pandaria themes into there and just handwaiving them. Also their playstyles are very different whereas blademaster would only need to tweak arms a little bit to work

[granite flame]

Blademasters in WC3 wore light armor, had an oriental flair, windwalk and mirror image; SEF is almost mirror image, the spec is literally called windwalker

[rain cave]

yes I know

but you're also forgetting their most important feature, wielding a big sword and spinning

and we've already got classes in the game that wear armour that's debateable as to if they'd actually wear it, or characters that are their class don't wear the same kind of armour/weapons

like anduin is our priest in game and for some reason he wears plate and uses a sword (the reason is story but you know what I mean)

[granite flame]

Yes, but big sword to monk is not a bigger leap than light armor for warriors

[rain cave]

thrall switches between plate and nothing for a while

[rain cave]

personally I think it is

the monk fantasy is largely hand to hand combat, that's literally their lore is NOT using conventional weapons

whereas a warrior is a warrior no matter what they wear

but even from a gameplay standpoint, I think people who want WW to be a blademaster just.. haven't played either

WW does not actually have much in its kit that is analagous to a blademaster, you've literally just got the earth wind and fire thing and even then that's already a different ability in WC3 for a compltely different hero who WAS a monk

what would blackout kick be turned into? rising sun kick? tiger palm? fury? what about xuen, strike of the windlord, whirling dragon punch etc etc

you're basically just changing all the abilities on a class to be something else to try make it fit and even then, it just wouldn't feel blademaster because it's so fast paced and monk-y

[granite flame]

Tiger palm > jab
Kick> slice
Risk> uppercut
Windlord, dragon punch > smaller bladestorm

[rain cave]

I rest my case. xD

[granite flame]

It would have to be a class skin regardless of it being a warrior or monk

[rain cave]

not really

if anything it makes more sense as a hero talent for warrior

or just new talent options for arms in the base tree

[ember blaze]

eh the fantasy doesnt sound too interesting or unique to me to make into its own thing

it just sounds like a monk with a sword

[rain cave]

it really isn't, it's more an arms warrior with agility

would work best as a hero spec imo, they've got just enough to make it a hero spec

[sullen dawn]

Id rather its a glyph for arms warrior or windwalker monk

[sullen dawn]

Kind of. Its more like a samurai mixed with an air shaman. More japan coded than China coded too

But you could defo reskin/animate monk abilities to do a blade master

Roll would turn into a blink type thing. Fists of fury would be "A million blades" or something

If we ever get class skins or glyph rework id like to see that

[rain cave]

ehh to me it's too big to be a glyph but too samall to be a full on class skin

also class skins don't "exist"

there's no definition on what they could be other than things like green fire or glyphs

and hero talents seemingly aim to tackle some of the things we wanted skins for

so realistically, it's going to be a hero talent if it isn't anything else

though that being said. Since we have hero talents shared by 2 specs for each class, it would be interesting if next we got hero talents shared accross 2 specs for different classes

doubt they'd do it but it would be a cool premise and allow them to add a third choice whilst not having to make a brand new one for every spec or have an unbalanced spread where some have 2 choices some have 3

like they could give vengeance DH's and Demo warlocks more demon transformation magic, WW and arms could BOTH get blademaster, frost mages and frost DK's could be liches, even things like Discipline and fire mages getting holy fire to burn with

[twilit coral]

11.2 on the Xbox conference? Yes or nah?

[upper pasture]

We hope lol

[ember blaze]

when is it

[sullen dawn]

Im talking about inna context where glyphs were reworked or class skins were introduced

[sullen dawn]

Tomorrow evening universal time

I think 6pm

[sullen dawn]

That actually sounds..... really cool

[tropic trail]

New patch? 🌝

[thin warren]

not yet 😦

[deep pawn]

Maybe this afternoon at the duos event, but my guess is tomorrow if it's anything

[thin warren]

i want to know where we are going in .2!!

[deep pawn]

Don't we all.

Lack of story in .5s is killing momentum

[sullen dawn]

Yeh most people have been guessing xbox show for a while but who knows

[thin warren]

And Arathor in .7 seems like a side story, not part of the main storyarc

[sullen dawn]

Likely Avaloren setup from before when the world souls saga was planned

[thin warren]

So maybe a big questline?

[sullen dawn]

No idea

[deep pawn]

I've had plenty of discussions in here how ignoring Avaloren exists for years feels narratively insane when we have the most skilled teleportation mages left on Azeroth on call.

[thin warren]

do we?

[deep pawn]

Oculeth and Jaina combined could open a portal to the Arathi capital tomorrow

But now that we know Quel'thalas and Northrend were not the original plans, the story makes a bit more sense

While the swap happened too late to change much of TWW I hope Midnight doesn't suffer from less planning time but the area is largely already mapped out

[ember blaze]

was it not establish that you need to know the place to actually go there?

is there magic that lets u read someone's mind 🤔

[deep pawn]

Jaina read the memory of a survivor of the ships chasing Talanji, and Oculeth has opened a portal to a place he had never been to but it was risky. Combine the two and based on the rules we've been given it'd be pretty safe.

In BfA Oculeth opened a portal to the basement of a temple in Boralus.

[thin warren]

And that was about Avalon?

[rain cave]

They don't know where it is

[deep pawn]

There's literally scores of Arathi who do know and can give ample descriptions of night skies in the empire.

[rain cave]

I don't think the arathi could even navigate back to it if they wanted to

[deep pawn]

So descriptions combined with some magical memory extraction it could be done.

[rain cave]

The night skies wouldn't really help imo, I think you literally need to KNOW where the portal will open

Have a mental image of it

[deep pawn]

Again, that's something Oculeth has done without

[rain cave]

For draenor?

[deep pawn]

for Boralus

[rain cave]

How do we know occuleth didn't know

[deep pawn]

He literally tells us and that it's risky

[rain cave]

Fair

Shorter hop though, and he does mention its risky

[deep pawn]

That's why I'm saying combine with Jaina providing a mental image.

[rain cave]

Also things might have changed in the empire

So their mental images would be out of date

[deep pawn]

Eh, Zuldazar and Boralus are really far apart

[rain cave]

Case and point ancient dalaran portal

[rain cave]

They're right next to eachother in terms of rough area

[deep pawn]

Not really

That's a map of convenience

[rain cave]

Their within the range third of the map

If not quarter

[deep pawn]

Zuldazar is just north of Pandaria and Kul Tiras is off the coast of Lordaeron

[rain cave]

Whereas avaloren would be on the other side of the planet behind magic storms

[rain cave]

Aren't they both in the upper right area with broken Isles?

Or an I mixing things up

[deep pawn]

Map of convenience

[rain cave]

No I'm asking what it looks like on the map

[deep pawn]

They are farther apart than the in game map suggests

[rain cave]

What's the source for that

[deep pawn]

Just like the Broken Isles are much smaller than what is shown

Just look at climate lol

[rain cave]

Tbf climate makes no sense

Jungle right next to a pine forest, desert next to a giant forest

[ember blaze]

do we have any reason to want to do that?

and has jaina even interacted with these places besides dalaran and the bomb?

[deep pawn]

To help people cut off from home and family stuck in an endless war?

People without we'd all be dead?

Only reason we're not is because Avaloren is delayed until 14.0

[ember blaze]

do u think with avaloren they might explore more stuff that isnt "wow"

[deep pawn]

I don't know

We know it likely has races we never met

Has Dragons that are more Fae like

[ember blaze]

hopefully races that are unique that we can play 😵‍💫

its gonna be Light dwarves isnt it

[deep pawn]

Depends on what the Titan heretics are there

[ember blaze]

cat girls 👀

[deep pawn]

Odyn lost control of it and couldn't get back

[sullen dawn]

Gross and degen

[deep pawn]

Its likely where the lost green dragons ended up

[ember blaze]

he's been there?

[deep pawn]

And I'm sure there's some native "beast" peoples that the Arathi have subjugated

No, but one of the lore books says he tried to send expeditions to reclaim

[ember blaze]

is this a guess

[sullen dawn]

Yeh 100% out of nothing

[deep pawn]

One constant in WoW is some wild god descendant race.

Even TWW has Kobolds

[sullen dawn]

Sure but thats still an asspull

[deep pawn]

We know Avaloren isn't peaceful and that the Arathi underwent wars of defense if not conquest, we know they are fairly xenophobic.

[sullen dawn]

Yes

[deep pawn]

Its WoW, there'll be some race there that's been in conflict with the Arathi.

[sullen dawn]

But youre just taking wild guess

[deep pawn]

Its not a wild guess to assume a race like Quillboars, Gnolls, or Tauren are there

[sullen dawn]

Yep it is

Not saying you will be wrong just that you've pulled that out of thin air

[deep pawn]

No, it's called it's a place on Azeroth lol

Its a near constant in their world building

Could easily be Tauren under protection by the Fae Greens

[sullen dawn]

🤡

[deep pawn]

Not that it matters, we won't see it before 2029

Also, why clown emoji me when I don't do that to y'all's K'aresh or Ethereal speculation lol

We have less information on what could even be on a shattered K'aresh than we do with Avaloren.

[rain cave]

Native azeroth races are either beast races or trolls

It is likely there will be some kind of beast race on avaloren, I agree with kyle

There's no explicit evidence, but every continent has them

[sullen dawn]

Yes I dont disagree with this, just seems very sure thay the empire was subjugating beast race

Its entirely possibly but right now theres nothing to base that on. Avaloren is many many years away. Who knows what the team will look like in 2030s. We might never go there

[rain cave]

True

It wouldn't be the first time a titan race subjugated a beast race

Mogu and pandaren

[lavish raptor]

we need more bird people

:V

[rain cave]

I wanted arrakoa playable for ages

Maybe we get them if we return to outland

[sullen dawn]

Arrakoa are badass

[rain cave]

But that's a long shot

[sullen dawn]

Would love to play a shadow priest one

[sullen dawn]

This guy was outside my window last weem

*week

[deep pawn]

a militaristic religious empire, they're gonna have downsides

[lavish raptor]

Sparrowhawk

[rain cave]

Tbf they could also just have them as a part of the empire

There are also the green dragons hinted to be there

don't the arathi view dragons as legendary vicious beasts? Or am I misremembering

[deep pawn]

Mythical beings that scour lands and grant wishes

Feels very Fae like to me.

[deep pawn]

someone pulled out occam's razor in the mmo-c thread, I still think Rootlands and K'aresh are equally likely even if I think Rootlands makes more narrative sense, but I think we get both with the Ethereals attacking the Rootlands haha

[rain cave]

Would be cool if that means there's a split in the family of green dragons there. Ones that embrace the wild part of nature and are more feral, whilst the others lean more into that grovetending fae part

Would give us some good visual distinction as well as an opportunity for a nice story

[rain cave]

Also yeah this

[deep pawn]

I'm sure they can write a story reason why we suddenly want to chase an artifact that we don't want on Azeroth to bring it back to Azeroth for it to corrupt the Sunwell, but it won't feel good if they go that route lol

[deep pawn]

Classic Blue Lady looks so weird

[rain cave]

I mean, we don't even know if that's the case

it could be that xalatath wants to corrupt the sunwell to replace the dark heart

sunwell itself is vaguely related to the dragon/demon soul, since it was made from the well of eternity, and the dragon soul is related to the dark heart

bit of a leap but also if Xal needs a powerful font of void power, why not the sunwell? a giant font of power that has shown vulnerability to being turned into void and has been used to open portals before

[deep pawn]

Well that won't happen until after 11.2 so who knows

[uncut vault]

We’ve gotten hints at the void looking for a “vessel” since late Legion in the nightborne heritage

I think on the surface, the fight will be preventing the void from claiming the sunwell as that vessel

But in truth, if you look at the dialogue from 7.3.5

They never refer to the sunwell as the vessel, just a gateway

And what kicks off the void incursion is Alleria herself

So I do think the twist is going to be that Xal needs Alleria in particular for something

And because she was unable to convince Alleria willingly in TWW, she’ll be doing it by force in Midnight by threatening to corrupt things Alleria cares about like the Sunwell or Arator

[deep pawn]

I still can't write off Anduin as our vector

[zealous sedge]

Let’s hope we get something today!

[sullen dawn]

Yep!

[ember blaze]

leave him alone 😭

[warm topaz]

do you think Midnight will end the way Legion did? Destroying the void and forget it for the rest of WoW?

from what Metzen said at Blizzcon, I have a feeling they will actually lcorrupt the world or the Sunwell or something

and that's why we need to call the Titans in TLT

[rain cave]

I think it's more that we will fight them off, but it'll leave some kind of stain

Or the manifold is broken/ damaged

I don't think we're calling the titans, they wouldn't care

They view us as occasionally helpful ants

[glass flicker]

Well, why are they calling it Midnight? 'Cause the night falls over Azeroth. Maybe they'll do the same thing Shadowbringers did, but instead of covering the world in endless day, they make it a never-ending night.

[rain cave]

I mean I'm betting on that being a skybox gimmick they use either in the xpac zones or after a raid like in legion

Personally I'm a big fan of the idea of having dimensius be the skybox whilst the forces of the light show up to hold him off

The arathi will probably have an important role in those forces. I doubt they'd miss the fight they prophesized

[glass flicker]

I don't know if we're ready to fight Dimensius yet. Like, legitimately tell me how a gnome with a half-size sword is gonna hold off a guy who munches planets.

Also, remember this?

Boomer Anduin.

[rain cave]

same way we fought sargeras

[glass flicker]

So unless Anduin is artificially aged, or this comic is an embellishment of how old he got during his time away from the kingdom...

[rain cave]

wasn't that comic noncanon-ified

[glass flicker]

I don't know. Was it?

If it was, then I dearly wish Blizzard would stop releasing comics.

Stay true to your own material or don't friggin' release it.

[rain cave]

there is actually a 2nd version of it without velen saying light will triumph

[rain cave]

me'dan

the walls shake ominously

[glass flicker]

I know.

The Mary Sue power fantasy OC with Guardian powers, but like, from all the classes!

[rain cave]

honestly I think they should get all the comics they feel fit well in the current canon/story

and voice act them, put them in game as motion videos

[glass flicker]

And he's also half-Human, quarter Draenei, quarter Orc, y'guys! :D

[rain cave]

or just give us them to read in-game

[glass flicker]

I agree with this.

They kinda did it with the Warbringers/Harbingers shorts.

The Legion ones, at least.

[rain cave]

yeah but those were animated things

and fit more directly into the story and promotion

[glass flicker]

Not animated, per say. More like motion comics.

[rain cave]

but what if we had like a section of the libraries/lorekeeping areas in the capital cities where you can go read them

framed as either visions of mad prophets, historical biographical pieces, or whatever

[glass flicker]

For real though. They made Harrison Jones the archeology trainer in Stormwind and then proceeded to do nothing with him.

[rain cave]

archeology rework for TLT?

(or sooner but idk they got their plate full)

[glass flicker]

An archeology rework is long overdue.

[ember blaze]

give me league style music videos with action 🙊

i wonder if wow audience would like those

[warm topaz]

i mean, why are the titans coming to Azeroth in TLT then?

[rain cave]

probably because azeroth has been a bit of a popup pirate and midnight will probably leave another "sword" effect on the planet that triggers an alarm somewhere

after all the titans explicitly built their stuff against void/old god influence

so if those systems get tripped, they'll probably come running to see their pet project is ok

could even be that we see azeroth move into an avatar herself at/near the end of midnight and the titans are like "huh what where's our titan"

there's a long list of reasons why the titans could arrive, but I don't think many of them would be because of us

after all we're sort of seeing the titans as a bit shit more and more each day

[deep pawn]

"It's a future, not the future."

Velen doesn't see just one future, I think it changes based on actions of others.

1pm today until whenever the showcase ends I guess lol.

[sullen dawn]

I believe its 90 mins. Or it usually is

[zealous sedge]

1 pm est is when it starts yeah

[thin warren]

in 1 hour and 40 minutes

[sullen dawn]

Noice, extra 10 mins for TES VI at end :p

[thin warren]

o'rly

[zealous sedge]

Copeeee

Just kidding I hope so too

[sullen dawn]

:p

[deep pawn]

I really need some news today, I can't wait til the 25th

[zealous sedge]

Is something specific happening on the 25th or is that just a week after 11.1.7

Like is there another event on the books

[warm topaz]

i mean

they're arleady late on the announcement

[deep pawn]

25th would match around the time they announced 11.1.5 after 11.1

[warm topaz]

yeah but, only a month of PTR?

month and 10 days

[deep pawn]

7 weeks still like the rest if it happens then.

if announced on the 25th, patch is on the 12th.

If announced this week, probably on the 5th.

[warm topaz]

🙏

[deep pawn]

so the timing likely wouldn't change that much, just we'd have to wait 17 more days to learn haha

[sullen dawn]

Yeh

Ptr likely not until Thursday anyway

[zealous sedge]

I’m gonna be disappointed

If not

[warm topaz]

i remember back in DF, where we had 3 ptrs at the same time, or 2

i think it was 10.0.7 and 10.1

[deep pawn]

yeah, only time it's happened so far and 10.0.7 was a "short patch" too

so if 11.1.7 is only 7 weeks maybe

[deep pawn]

I'm guessing this is Fallout 76 as the prestream relaxation?

[silent urchin]

Yeah

beats a basic countdown for sure

[rain cave]

WORLD PREMIERE

[deep pawn]

all the ratings

[zealous sedge]

I’m with family. What am I missing?

Or is there a good place to read updates

[deep pawn]

r gaming probably

a couple games announced, and I think handheld xbox is new?

[zealous sedge]

Handheld Xbox to compete with switch?

Makes sense tbh

[rain cave]

it's more steam deck inspired by the looks of it

it has battle net on it

this is probably the thing the one button rotation is for

[deep pawn]

if all these can be played on the ally, dang

[silent urchin]

Rog Ally isn't anything new, although this is a new version of it

[rain cave]

technically it's all playable with "xbox play anywhere" cloud streaming 🙃

[silent urchin]

xbox has been doing the "this is an xbox" thing for a while, pushing gamepass etc to more places

[rain cave]

the chip is new

[silent urchin]

not clear exactly what's new on this version

[rain cave]

I think it's the new ryzen chip that's surpisingly efficient/strong

[deep pawn]

I do think some game companies are betting big on streaming games

I think its behind WoW's anti addon push.

[rain cave]

xbox has been doing it for a while

I'm not a fan generally but more options is more options

[deep pawn]

Geforce Now is sponsoring streamers to try their system.

Sounds like Hanzo's VA