#beta-ptr-spoilers

1 messages · Page 128 of 1

deep pawn
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has anyone been able to find this red skinned orc from the subreddit?

warm topaz
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is something about the guilds

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maybe an EU guild going to NA next tier as MrGM suggest

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or something like that

deep pawn
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hmm

silent urchin
warm topaz
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i read that on twitter this morning aswell

zealous sedge
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Interesting cliff note on the latest interview with housing

IMG_3134.png
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Curious to what the gold price is gonna be. I thought it was gonna be free but it better not be more than 25,000.

silent urchin
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it's not gonna be high to just get the house

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they want people, especially newer players, to have access

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some of the furniture might be stupidly expensive

zealous sedge
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Also I assume that this community tool is only for private neighborhoods? Or is this the only way to manage the thousands of public neighborhoods by having players manage themselves. Just concerned about a toxic “mayor”.

silent urchin
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there's a lot about public neighbourhoods that I'm still unsure about

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I assume there's gonna be some method to move neighbourhood

zealous sedge
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Yeah I hope their next in depth post is about neighborhoods

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But it sounds like they are still considering things which has me slightly worried

silent urchin
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They definitely are, but it's still about 6months out at the earliest

zealous sedge
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True. 6 months feels like it’ll fly by

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But I’m still more confident than skeptical

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Everything so far has been great

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I think I’d prefer a voting system rather than a mayor for public neighborhoods

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Private neighborhoods sure have at it because that would be like the guild master in charge

silent urchin
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honestly I kinda hope they do non-guild private communities too

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especially for RP servers

zealous sedge
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I’m fairly certain they would allow that

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If they don’t that would be a huge miss

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I’m sure the UI team has got their work cut out for them with these new systems

tulip sun
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Maybe once we get more neighborhoods, a fancier one might cost more

zealous sedge
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I’m afraid to pay more gold for better plots

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Like sure, a lot of things can be bought with gold. But I feel like gating really cool stuff with gold sinks is not the way. Also with game time tokens it then becomes a defacto in game shop if gold prices are too high.

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Like a basic dinner table should be like 100 gold

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For example

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I’m curious how achievement based rewards will work. Because let’s say you need 4 chairs to complete your kitchen table setup. If you complete an achievement that gives you a Silvermoon themed chair, do you get one for free and they have to buy the other 3?

ember blaze
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i dont want housing to be an insane gold sink

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sure have ur 1m gold trophy item, but I dont want a nice house being locked to 5m gold like bruto mount

zealous sedge
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I don’t even like the idea of gold sink trophy items but I guess that’s probably gonna happen anyways

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I highly doubt Blizz will start the housing at a 5m cost. So many players would revolt haha.

This is a feature that you get with your subscription/ midnight purchase and that’s the barrier to entry. It’s gotta be less than 25k gold and even that’s too high. Realistically it should be 5k.

ember blaze
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eh idc about some random decoration

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but like the big plot/house is where id want the line drawn lol

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like do i get a shitty tiny plot for my garden while a goblin gets double that for having a shit ton of gold? despairge

zealous sedge
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Yeah based on what I read it seems as though all the plots and exteriors are the same size and the houses can be as big/ small as you want (on the inside). There are different plot locations in the neighborhood for obvious reasons but they also said if you are in a public neighborhood you can choose any plot you want: I.e. hermit on a hill or in the suburb/ street lots. Which I guess means public neighborhoods are phased and every time you go into the neighborhood you might have different neighbors I assume.

ember blaze
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i want my plot over in duskwood WICKEDBusiness

zealous sedge
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One day

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I want a forsaken house

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Kinda slept on tbh

ember blaze
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duskwood plot should be a thing no?

zealous sedge
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Or even Vrykul

ember blaze
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since its like right there in the area

zealous sedge
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Potentially

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The neighborhoods are durotar and elwyn

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So their could be a part of the alliance neighborhood that kinda borders dusk wood

sullen dawn
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Likely duskwood too ye

deep pawn
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Man I really hope we get a more detailed rest of the year roadmap in June with some clarification on when they expect prepatch if housing really releases after prepatch

silent urchin
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Why would it be coming after prepatch

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If anything they seemed to imply it was earlier

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prepatch is only like 3-4 weeks tops

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it's separate to their other dev cycles so they can just patch it in whenever, it's not tied to midnight stuff

deep pawn
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Per Dratnos they said it's a Midnight feature that comes out between prepatch and launch

novel zodiac
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isn't it the usual that we get 0 content the first week of the prepatch to get used to the class changes?

pliant bridge
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I think we'll just get a really long prepatch specifically so they can iron out the housing thing

austere gazelle
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We may even have the housing before midnight... They put it on the roadmap before the midnight release

deep pawn
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they didn't

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The most recent info is it comes after prepatch

sullen dawn
deep pawn
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maybe?

sullen dawn
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That's what my brain is telling me :p

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So it didnt really updste future content much

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Just added the announced patch details

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Honestly there's probably no roadmap update this year

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Next "updated" roadmap would be 2026s when 12.1 gets shown off

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Our timeline imo is:

June - 11.2 reveal (possibly at xbox show). Also an announcement of what to expect at gamescom. If theyre st xbox they will also show legion remix for audience region, if not then july. PTR goes live
July - remix details/trailer if not in june
August - midnight deep dive, alpha starts, 11.2 releases
December - prepatch
Late December - housing
Very early February - expansion launch

zealous sedge
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Presumably we would get the 2026 roadmap in August although that is a little ahead of the game so to speak. I guess they could just do a regular blue post in November/ December

sullen dawn
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Oh and remix in October

sullen dawn
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Since they'll want misnight lajnch to be the focus the next few months from august, not next years content

zealous sedge
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I’m thinking remix in mid to late November tbh

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That’s gonna piss people off thi

sullen dawn
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Yeh im not sure about remix

zealous sedge
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Tho*

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People are busy with families at the end of the year

sullen dawn
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Sometime from October to Dec anyway

zealous sedge
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Yeah. You think it’s gonna be 3 months or maybe longer?

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
zealous sedge
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3 months

sullen dawn
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I think it went right ip to prepatch

zealous sedge
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It did

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Mop was a beefy expac but legion has way more content

sullen dawn
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3 months seems tight, thatd mean a September stsrt, which would only be a month after 11.2 launches

zealous sedge
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Especially with class orders

sullen dawn
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People would still be doing curve

zealous sedge
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I think they will probably wait til halfway thru season 3 so like 3 months into 11.2 tbh

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That’s so much content at once

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I would die

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Well are we thinking pre patch is in January?

sullen dawn
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I thought December before but then season 3 would only be 4 months

zealous sedge
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Yeah it’s possible

sullen dawn
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Unless its early August to late Dec

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Then itd be just under 5 months

zealous sedge
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My going theory is that Prepatch is actually a beefy patch and it’s 8 weeks long. Housing comes in half way at 4 weeks. Then launch

sullen dawn
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I agree

pliant bridge
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they should just drop housing in december and leave for holidays, let the servers burn or w/e dracthyr_hehe

sullen dawn
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I think theyre moving through 8 week cadence into prepatch too

zealous sedge
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Like maybe prepatch is new starting zones for Belf and Draenei

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Plus a storyline where they build the neighborhoods

sullen dawn
zealous sedge
lavish raptor
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Prepatch is usually glitch city so i wouldnt be surprised if it was especially long

sullen dawn
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I really thin they want people to be able to do houskng over Xmas holidays

zealous sedge
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Maybe

sullen dawn
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Its not like stressful raiding where commitments are an issue over Christmas

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Housing is like... playing animal crossing

zealous sedge
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Idk such I big feature the devs have to be in office 24/7 for atleast the first 2-3 weeks

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But an interview confirmed housing comes after prepatch

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So unless prepatch is in December no chance l

sullen dawn
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Honwstly that could just mean 1 week later

zealous sedge
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True

pliant bridge
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we're just flying through TWW I feel I wont develop any nostalgic feelings for it

zealous sedge
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Yeah

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I like the in expansion cadence for the most part except when life is busy

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Honestly could be fine with a 10 week cadence

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And maybe give me a tiny little break between expansions

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Like maybe I wanna go do other stuff in the game like old achievements or play other games

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I would be totally fine with 5 month remix starting mid November. Prepatch mid January, housing February, and midnight end of March

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That’s 6 months of 11.2

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Which is on pace

pliant bridge
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Its being tough for sure,

silent urchin
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I still feel like undermine is too much of a side step from the main story, there's not really any momentum in it atm

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Also I looked up the dratnos quote, I think people are taking it way too literally

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He said "coming out in the pre-patch to midnight window" but I think meant more generically just in the run up to midnight

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I doubt blizz even know for sure, done when it's done sort of thing

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Other videos I saw just sort of generically shrugged about the date being according to what the roadmap says

deep pawn
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The issue is we know we have 4 more TWW patches to come out

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Even going down to a 7 week cadence means no prepatch until the new year

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Which sure, Blizzard winter is mostly January February and March, but early winter housing means 11.2.7 is really short potentially

sullen dawn
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I could see one the post 11.2 patches being a big dump of campsite backgrounds and ways to collect them

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There isnt really all that much choice thematically. They could add a bunch, and just add some achievements for old content to get them

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Would mean not too many would have to focus on patch and would still give some nice things to chase for a while

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I know they're not trivial to make, but its not like you need gameplay engineers etc..

zealous sedge
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Give me campsites with interactive objects

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Like hearthstone

sullen dawn
zealous sedge
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Clickable widgets

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Yeah that would be nice

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Also emotes

sullen dawn
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Walll leaaaannn

zealous sedge
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Let me dance in my campsite

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Can my characters have conversations with each other too

sullen dawn
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Honestly customisation features excite me more than raid stuff or gear lol

zealous sedge
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I like the tmog

sullen dawn
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Looking good

zealous sedge
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But I get more excited for mounts

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Tbh

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Toys and pets are whatever

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The only reason I buy is cause I like clearing out vendors

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I want blank vendor pages

sullen dawn
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I was stale on mounts but skyriding has renewned my interest. Plus lots of nice ones lately. I do wanna see dynamic ground mounts soon enough tho

zealous sedge
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Yeah but not like DRIVE please

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It was kinda a miss

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Or just give me 200% ground speed

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Feels so slow

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We are too used to sky riding l

sullen dawn
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I understand its harder as they prolly need to make them as "families". Like bikes work like drive, but frogs dont, they judt jump real high, and horses control like in legend of zelda and can jump over fences etc..

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Stags, talbuks, rams etc... could all be a family for e.g.

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Horse. Wolf, Saber, Hawkstrider Raptor, Kodo etc.. all the racial mounts could have their own special family with unique abilities. For the rest you can bucket them. Like all bikes, trikes, and some other mech mounts could share a single family

deep pawn
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notably 11.2.5 doesn't mention any story, just content updates and the anniversary

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which terrifies me

zealous sedge
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Hopefully the changed their mind murloc

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Hahaha

deep pawn
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nah, they just spread the story out so they didn't have any filler for the middle patches this expansion

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Nightfall is content, Legacy of Arathor is story

zealous sedge
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Very excited for legacy of arathor

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And lorewalking

deep pawn
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there's no way you can excuse all 3 x.x.5 patches having 0 story to me

zealous sedge
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Agreed

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We starving out here

deep pawn
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but anniversary stuff confirms 11.2.5 is in October

zealous sedge
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Curious what the Warband updates are

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And open world challenges

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Unless it’s just an iteration on special assignments l

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Also with brewfest updates 11.2 has to be before September 20th but we already assumed that

deep pawn
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it's gonna be early august

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nothing to suggests the cadence will be interrupted except til after 11.2.7

uncut vault
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and then have 11.1.7 give us a prologue to 11.2's zone like what we got for Undermine

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its gonna be a HUGE leap into K'aresh if that ends up being the patch zone

sullen dawn
deep pawn
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I mean the intro questline could be long enough, but we were promised more fluid connections over multiple patches

warm topaz
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i would love to know the reasoning behind not having a prologue to 11.2 in 11.1.7

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i'm sure there's one

deep pawn
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I think it's simply they couldn't figure out how to spread the story out

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If Undermine and 11.2 are last minute filler to the expanded plot who knows

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I'll never be able to comprehend how they intended to kill Xal and the Titans in one expansion though

silent urchin
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We don't know that that was the original plan

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We don't even know that that's the current plan

deep pawn
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Nah, they said the original plot for TWW was the entire Worldsoul Saga

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So TWW was supposed to end with the Titans

glass flicker
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My interpretation is that Xal'atath was supposed to absorb the worldsoul of Azeroth using the Dark Heart, and the Titans smack her on the wrist. Hard.

deep pawn
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Maybe it works as a 4 raid expansion

silent urchin
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They'd have taken the original plans for TWW and gone "Well if we make it longer we can also do all these extra things" and we don't know what was original and what was extra

deep pawn
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I mean as a 4 act expansion, you make it work with 11.2 being Ethereals and Xal either waking Dimensius or absorbing the world soul, and then the Titans come and threaten to reoriginate and we kill them. But 3 raid expansion no way

glass flicker
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And it's all because she loves her little pogchamp shadow priest so much.

warm topaz
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i think we'll work with Xal at some point, based on nothing, just my feelings

glass flicker
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I wonder how much I'd have to pay Xal'atath's voice actress to say "you are my little shadow priest, mwah"

deep pawn
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I think we're more likely to work with Azshara than Xal

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If the Ethereals attack the Worldsoul maybe she helps us to get the Dark Heart back but we'd be stupid

rain cave
deep pawn
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Yes, some other long dead character showing back up and no one suspects

rain cave
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Don't even have to be dead

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Would be an insane move if she disguised herself as arator

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Since I think that could lead to sending alleria into a spiral

deep pawn
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Would require better writing than the MSQ has had so far

sullen dawn
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Honestly its better this way. Going into midnight without void lord lore from karesh would be whack

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We know next to nothing about them

pulsar minnow
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Also aren’t we getting ethereal lorewalking anyways? It’s not exactly a prologue but it is setup

lavish raptor
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It's not enough of a setup imo. Its like "oh no theres ethereals who are mad at us. Also ve'nari and locus walker know each other"

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(its why i think a swerve into k'aresh doesn't work in TWW but that's not neither here or there)

upper pasture
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Are the ethereals really “mad at us” or doing what’s “in their best interest to get their home back”?

silent urchin
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I think more the latter

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I don't think this faction of ethereals cares much about us at all

upper pasture
lavish raptor
pulsar minnow
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I mean we started TWW with an ethereal attack in Telogrus searching after the dark heart. We then had Locus Walker tell us about Dimensius and what him and Xal Atath did to his planet.

We then had an entire ethereal attack in undermine and the K’aresh teaser.

Also? We didn’t really have any prologue to Zereth Mortis, Emerald Dream, or Argus. We just kinda got there

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So to say the ethereals came out of left field just isn’t true

lavish raptor
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Ethereals arent out of left field

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Us staring at purple shit thats supposed to be the remnants of a planet for six seconds though? I don't buy it as spaceship time

upper pasture
pulsar minnow
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I honestly think K’aresh has made far more sense than any alternative zone with the setup it’s been given this expansion

deep pawn
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if the Ethereals aren't attacking Azeroth why do I care they have the heart?

upper pasture
pulsar minnow
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Because the heart is a super weapon that has the ability to blow up cities?

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Jinx

deep pawn
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Okay? And unless they want to attack Azeroth, them using it on the husk of K'aresh is better than Xal having it.

upper pasture
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and Xal is gonna try and get it back. we want to stop her from getting it back.

pulsar minnow
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The point is that Xal is in pursuit of it. And we the players don’t even know what the ethereals want to do with it

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They obviously aren’t the fondest of us since they attacked our cities and strongholds

thin warren
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the visions also meant, locuswalker said it, that our planet might get devoured by Dimensius?

pulsar minnow
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Yes. The radiant song attracted Xal and Dimensius to K’aresh

lavish raptor
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I feel like ZerMo got more direct foreshadowing than K'aresh did

deep pawn
thin warren
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maybe Dimensius is tied to the Heart in some way, so if they use it, he gets stronger?

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might go after our prime worldsoul

pulsar minnow
lavish raptor
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Ethereals for sure but i feel like if they were done w/ azeroth they would have left already lol

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I feel there is something in the rootlands they'll care about and they'll attack that as a diversion

upper pasture
pulsar minnow
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I still strongly think we’re gonna get to K’aresh through Abberus. That void portal can’t just be for decoration

deep pawn
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I'm absolutely fine if they attack Azeroth and we defend from that.

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But as it stands, we have no REASON to galavant across space if they are not a direct threat now.

lavish raptor
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Poor Orweyna, her story line is getting mowed over by Hot Elf Lady's Goth Power Hangups

thin warren
lavish raptor
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And the Bandage People

pulsar minnow
upper pasture
deep pawn
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And I personally wouldn't just follow Locus Walker if he says we have to go steal the heart back from people who don't want to attack us

sullen dawn
thin warren
sullen dawn
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Maybe 11.2 can be karesh AND underground :p

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E.g. we go to karesh but what remains of the surface is glassed

upper pasture
sullen dawn
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So its underground karesh :p

pulsar minnow
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As it stands now they made an entire cinematic to explain that Orweyna's visions were calling her away from the rootlands for now. We're probably gonna go back one day, and it'd make more sense to do so when we're unraveling the cosmic conspiracy between pantheons, where Elune and Eonar's relationship could very likely be a major factor in TLT's story. That's my guess at least for why its being shelved for now

lavish raptor
deep pawn
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The Ethereals attacking Dornogal in 11.1.7 would've made a jump to K'aresh a lot more believable, but if we just go there cause one of the least trustworthy characters we have says so it's gonna be stupider writing than everyone trusting someone dead since the third war.

lavish raptor
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watch, we'll all be wrong and the ethereals are gonna attack the arathi homeland.

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Which arathi homeland? One of them

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We've had more recent foreshadowing towards the Arathi than le epic spaec trevel

deep pawn
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eh, given that we have hints that 12.0 was originally gonna be Avaloren, odds are it's not even being worked on yet until 14.0

upper pasture
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what if Beledar becomes a portal to K'aresh? no space travcel required

pulsar minnow
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I mean we're never gonna convince you until it's actually released, but I don't think chasing after Xal'atath who's pursuing an incredibly dangerous artifact with the power of a nuclear bomb is "bad writing"

lavish raptor
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i think k'aresh doesnt really address any of the themes given for this expac

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thats my hot take

deep pawn
pulsar minnow
upper pasture
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good thing it's a saga so it's a story over 3 parts

deep pawn
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We're literally ahead of where we were before the start of this expansion.

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So why do Xal's work for her by killing a bunch of ethereals unless they attack us first.

pulsar minnow
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we can't trust the ethereals. we cant trust her either

lavish raptor
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Title connected themes are internal conflict (which for a karesh themed patch would be like. just alleria and her void hangups I think), overcoming intracommunity conflict (the ethereal cartels maybe? velf shit? why are we trusting bandaid people while fighting other bandaid people?), and literally being underground (maybe karesh is mostly underground??).

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idk maybe im too used to the smaller scale storytelling in the past expacs

deep pawn
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I just think selling a K'aresh patch is more than I think the writers have pulled off over the last decade.

rain cave
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also on k'aresh, I think it's more a matter of WHAT the plans are for it in the story

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like if you frame K'aresh as a mirror to our own planet? a tease of what the void want to do to us? Sure it fits as a final patch zone for war within, but then that means midnight has to be more diverse than just void, which I think we are expecting to a degree

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(like legion, we had EN and nightborne)

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but if you view k'aresh as important to that very same story in midnight, e.g. a place dimensius attacks from, or a place we go to get knowledge or whatever, then it makes more sense for it to be in midnight

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it can fit both, and that's the crux of where this argument comes from. So I think it's better to look at what other patches could happen in War Within, since K'aresh is competing with those.

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if it makes more sense for something else to be the final patch in this expansion, K'aresh will still happen in midnight most likely

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and for that we've got:
-Rootlands/ Harranir
-Depths of the underground sea
-Maybe more Beledar stuff
-Ethereal invasion/incursion (ON AZEROTH)
-Something titan I suppose?

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obviously some are more concrete than others, and some can be done simultaneously

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but to me rootlands, and the underground sea + beledar kind of fit together a little bit

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if we don't address the rootlands this expansion, it eats into the story of a different expansion where it makes a bit less sense to tell since it would mean going back

silent urchin
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More harranir stuff is what I'm hoping for. Give us a peak at the grand conspiracy and where the saga is actually going

rain cave
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rootlands are fed by the underground sea, the kobyss have a link to beledar and seemingly have dark fragments of it for their invisibliity I think

silent urchin
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Tell us a bit of why all the cosmic forces are digging deep into azeroth

rain cave
silent urchin
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we've been given hints and there's some explanations that seem to make sense but none of it is actually confirmed

rain cave
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we've had titan and void looks, but no direct interaction with life

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can also be used to patch up some of the shadowlands lore ahead of a potential reintroduction of it later in the saga

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even if it's not directly shadowlands, the whole elune stuff is kinda linked

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
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See don't get me wrong. For an underground expansion I think it makes a lot more sense to do the underground stuff like rootlands then. That said I'm viewing this more in the form of the saga and the story that's being told so that's where my expectations differ.

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I don't think rootlands is going to be abandoned, rather I think it's going to be waaaay more important than to be left behind in this expansion

sullen dawn
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Honestly karesh world souls is sufficiently azeroth world soul focused :p

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More so than some random patch areas we've gone to

deep pawn
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Only way I buy K'aresh is if we time travel to its past to see it before its fall.

lavish raptor
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Chromie forces herself into relevance again

pulsar minnow
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My gut feeling is the rootlands are going to be a major zone under Scholozar in Northerend, and will be a key point in getting Eonar on our side via her love for Elune and further unraveling the cosmic conspiracy and the true nature of Azeroth.

lavish raptor
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Cant wait for the giant planet lesbians content

rain cave
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we've got multiple sources pointing to that

pulsar minnow
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Well we've seen parts of the roots in Khaz yes, we also don't really know how big they really are

rain cave
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we have the book telling us that khaz algar is where the tree was pulled out I believe

pulsar minnow
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Aman'thul ripped out the tree and left a crater somewhere according to the book from Emerald Dream

rain cave
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and also ingame evidence to show that

pulsar minnow
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most likely though is the tree was in Un'goro since the Emerald Nightmare suggested there was once a tree there anyways

rain cave
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elun'ahir was in khaz aglar I'm fairly certain

pulsar minnow
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ends of the roots reach into khaz algar thats true

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but the actual base of the treee and where the trunk was is what im talking about

rain cave
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yes

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is it not hinted at that the roots are fairly close to khaz algar

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like there are freysworn who's goal was to protect the tree just chilling on khaz algar in the bushes

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"Eonar asked her keeper Freya to watch over the crater and the life that blossomed there." here

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also the presence of the underground sea could be eonars tears

pulsar minnow
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The Freysworn were responsible for shaping Khaz'Algars ecosystem, not watching over it

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Also Dornogal isn't a crater

silent urchin
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I think we're somewhat implied to have travelled quite a distance between ringing deeps and hallowfall even though it's a very short corridor in game

rain cave
pulsar minnow
rain cave
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but the original freysworn were told to look after the roots

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this is before khaz algar HAD edicts

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before they moved in and made the manifold there

pulsar minnow
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No the original Freysworn were responsible for Dornogal and the Isle of Dorn's construction lol

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https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Freysworn

Warcraft Wiki
Freysworn

The Freysworn are earthen designated by Freya with the responsibility of tending to the land and nurturing nature's gifts. They can be found among both the Oathsworn and the Unbound.

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Also Un'goro is also a very important place to Freya and IS a crater

rain cave
#

I'm pretty sure this wiki is missing some important text then

#

I just don't feel like there's much significance to un'goro, and it's not had much evidence to support it other than it's a crater

#

it's not a very interesting place imo

#

which fair is subjective

#

but to me I just assumed the tree was planted in khaz algar, then when it was ripped out they used the crater to begin making the big elavator

upper pasture
#

except when we went into the EN and it shows that one old god living in a TREE in the un'goro craters

rain cave
#

and that's also why there's so much underground stuff in khaz algar

#

that IS the crater

#

that was always my interpretation

lavish raptor
#

Is illy an old god? I think he is supposed to be a verbose sentient tumor

rain cave
#

since while yes the roots stretch far, un'goro just seems too far for the harranir to have shown up acting like they're 5 minutes from home

#

unless they've got fast travel in the roots lmao

silent urchin
#

the roots we see are still pretty far from the main part of the harranir's domain, afaik.

rain cave
#

it's also just unclear how much underground stuff there is, surely there aren't just caves that lead all the way to ungoro

silent urchin
#

There's a reason that we only see the two of them, and the rest are described as unconcerned

pulsar minnow
#

Un'goro was one of Freya's testing grounds during the ordering of Azeroth, and she had titan facilities installed there. So it's a crater, has been shown to have had a world tree there before, and we only see the ends of the roots in Khaz Algar. The underground sea is just where the roots drink from. Not where the base of this world spanning tree lies

rain cave
#

getting woken up by all the stuff going on with the nerubians

pulsar minnow
#

They are guardians of the roots - they wouldn't stay solely at the base of where the tree fell. Their whole mission is to ensure its not feeding on bad stuff like it is in Khaz Algar

rain cave
#

from playing through their quests I was thinking "so do these guys live like, next to the nerubians?"

deep pawn
#

We know that the coreway was built in a preexisting Fissure based on other lore books.

rain cave
#

could that fissue be the trees crater then?

#

or would it make more sense if it was beledars crash route

silent urchin
# 

<Hannan sighs.>

No, we knew exactly what we were getting into with her. And the... consequences.``` is on one of the quests, it's about all we get and pretty vague
deep pawn
silent urchin
#

I assume whatever we see in the wildcamps is orweynas expedition

deep pawn
#

"One particularly notable variant can be found in the earthen contingent dispatched to investigate the fissure detected in Sector AR-938 (for further details, search records related to geological anomalies)."

silent urchin
#

but exactly how far they've come I guess is pretty vague

deep pawn
#

So notably this book says the later Watchers have no knowledge of the original purpose of the Coreway

lavish raptor
#

Btw was that original prank leak pre-TWW of Avaloren released by Wowhead staff or WoW devs?

deep pawn
#

nah, it was someone from mmo-c

upper pasture
deep pawn
#

it was a very convincing fake.

deep pawn
lavish raptor
deep pawn
#

The only things that really line up is that as the Earthen of Khaz Algar worked closer to the Worldsoul, they became "corrupted"

sullen dawn
#

And holograms etc..

#

Same as argus

#

*but

deep pawn
#

Otherwise the Coreway was described as built, and while there may be other things that are a "fissure" nothing that fits with what we know of Earthen history.

#

Like from what Archaedas recorded, the Earthen of Khaz Algar were one of the first facilities built after Ulduar.

#

So I feel like a watcher saying they were dispatched to investiage feels odd.

#

and fissures are on the surface.

#

Eh, I'm just gonna say they hadn't fully nailed down the zone design of Khaz Algar when they wrote that book.

#

Cause too much doesn't line up

pulsar minnow
#

I don't see what doesn't line up

#

They found a fissure that lead to the core of azeroth and built the coreway around it as a way to study it

deep pawn
#

Maybe, but that doesn't fully line up with what Archaedas told us and what the Earthen say their past was.

sullen dawn
#

I have a feeling there was a memory wipe

#

In fact I think thats confirmed?

deep pawn
#

in this case it would have been with the watchers lol.

sullen dawn
#

Would surprise me tbh

#

I dont titans care about watchers

#

Keepers are probably the only ones they give any thought

deep pawn
#

But feels weird that the watchers in Uldaman were still aware of Khaz Algar despite ignoring them beyond observing apparently.

#

Because we're told by Brinthe that no one ever reached out to them after the sundering.

pulsar minnow
#

They had Dornic and Galan right?

sullen dawn
#

It seems like different beings kn tiyan hierarchy know bits and pieces

#

Only what they need to, like a corporation

#

So it doesnt surprise me things are a bit disjointed

deep pawn
#

Dornic and Galan were pre-Sundering.

sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

The Earthen act like Dornic was banished while the Titans still were around.

sullen dawn
#

Memory wiping is probably a big part of their mo

#

They might even try it with Sargeras

#

Because I think theyre too proud to not try and "bring him back"

deep pawn
#

The Earthen have their plays, so who knows if Dornic was actually cruel.

#

oh, wait, no Dornic was banished by a Keeper. Likely Archaedas then

pulsar minnow
#

Dornic was killed/deactivated by the Earthen no?

rain cave
#

"yeah sorry guys I was like in a dark place bro I've totally turned a new page"

#

and start recommending titan yoga to us

deep pawn
#

We know Galan was killed and locked away in a mine shaft and abandoned.

#

The Earthen believe Dornic was punished by their Keeper.

lavish raptor
#

I bet itll be like AND THEN THEY DID EXPERIMENTS ON DORNIC AND YOU GOTTA FIGHT HIM IN A RAID

pulsar minnow
#

where you find where he got ganked

rain cave
#

there is also the exiled nerubian queen

#

who was exiled into the mines/caves

#

maybe they've started a little cave gang

pulsar minnow
#

i think you can find her as a rare encounter in Azj Kahet. She's just a little cuckoo for cocoa puffs

rain cave
#

ah ok

deep pawn
#

okay, rereading the discs. So the Manifold was built first. Then began the acclimation, then the coreway was built, then finally the world core was built.

#

The Earthen do not remember building the Worldcore

#

Archaedas never returned to Khaz Algar after the Sundering, but that was the time when Loken was starting his betrayal right?

#

I 100% believe the final raid of the original TWW was the Worldcore, but that's likely pushed off.

rain cave
#

they're probably happy they've got a bunch of the pre-pro for that done lmao

#

even if the pivot was stressful

#

hell they can probably use a lot of assets from TWW in areas of TLT

deep pawn
#

I just got a little bit sad that our "leak season" is literally gonna be just 2 weeks this time haha.

#

Cause if my estimate is right, we get the raid just 16 days or so before they reveal Midnight fully.

#

Which has never happened before.

#

ah, maybe not, nevermind. TWW got revealed before 10.2 went live lol.

rain cave
zealous sedge
#

Damn chat is active today

#

Took me like 15 minutes to catch up

lavish raptor
#

Its what happens when the game itself is droll rn

zealous sedge
#

11.2 is undoubtedly rootlands/ karesh with some chromie time

#

Rootlands = life = cosmic force = Azeroth and Ka’resh are connected

#

Maybe the world soul was saved by the ethereals and placed in Azeroth with help from the titans. Titans said they would return Ka’resh back to normal and defeat the void if they gave up the world soul.

#

Yes I know the story goes that the Titans didn’t know the world soul was here but that could have been a lie

#

They used earthen to see what would happen when they interacted with the world soul

sullen dawn
#

Hear me out

#

I dont actually belive this but

#

What if karesh IS azeroth! From the future

zealous sedge
#

Anyways back to the ethereals there are factions we know of right so there is a faction that hates the titans for not fulfilling their promise of beating back the void and restoring Ka’resh

#

This is just a theory

#

The faction wants to steal back our worldsoul along with the roots to bring their world back together

#

Or they want to turn Azeroth into Ka’resh via the roots

#

To make it more hospitable for their kind

#

I just hope this isn’t a thing where we “strike a deal” with Xal

#

Feels like an overlayed trope in creative spaces

#

To team up with the baddie

#

The rootlands zone phases in and out of void as the ethereals become more powerful via the dark heart

#

The road map pointed to new “open world challenges”

#

Perhaps that is like the void starting to eat away at Azeroth and we have to beat it back

lone mantle
lavish raptor
#

It's the opposite of Azeroth then since we have two moons

lone mantle
#

This includes a blue moon with an unstable orbit.

sullen dawn
#

Since kyle mentioned time travel

tropic trail
#

Man time travel would be cool

#

Back to Titan times 10k years ago or more

sullen dawn
tropic trail
#

😌

#

Lmao

#

Elden Ring too hard, i played on cheats cause I couldn’t pass

sullen dawn
#

Honestly, im not sure where it would fit, but revisiting the sundering in some form as part of midnight and/or tlt would be cool

#

A lot of the relevant characters will be present like azshara, sargeras, allidan etc..

lone mantle
sullen dawn
#

Funny but I think calling illidan a mortal is a stretch ;p

#

In fact im pretty sure he used to laugh at us for being mortal

lone mantle
#

I know he is not a mortal being, I am just joking. dracthyr_tea

sullen dawn
zealous sedge
#

horrific visions starts tomorrow already sad

#

I’m so behind on my goals

upper pasture
#

yeah the triple threat title is gonna put me behind lol

zealous sedge
#

Oh yeah that’s a grind for sure

#

I’m so glad I’m not interested in M+ I would be overwhelmed

#

Just pug raids and delves for this guy

glass flicker
#

Well, horrific visions are gonna be a bit of a grind, seeing as four masks awards hero tier weapons and little else.

#

If those get up to mythic tier, I can see myself doing them. If not, then, sucks to be that system.

upper pasture
#

there's stuff to collect tho

zealous sedge
#

Yeah I’m in it for the collectibles

#

I’m kinda done chasing power just working on season achieves

#

And undermine reps

glass flicker
#

I don't know about the collectibles. Everything has that void aura halo thingy, it makes them not look good with any transmogs.

zealous sedge
#

That’s fair. To each their own

#

I’m shadow priest main so it works

tropic trail
#

It’s still possible to get that fel bicycle mount from Azeroth secret finding?

glass fulcrum
tropic trail
#

But it’s possible to do it solo yea? 🤔

glass fulcrum
#

I don't know the entire puzzle to say if you can solo it or not, but it is still doable

tropic trail
#

Ok nice thanks man 😂

ember blaze
#

there were a bunch of parts with stuff costing like a bajillion gold or time, but if u were there with someone that had it, you could just complete it with them

deep pawn
#

It shouldn't surprise me, but man are people big mad that Blizzard is reaching out to FF14 creators to bring them to housing previews

tropic trail
sullen dawn
warm topaz
#

great talk by Ion on how design and design philosophies has evolved over the years

lavish raptor
#

I hope the next build of ptr has bfa Timewalking back but changed so enemies aren't melee hitting for 1/3 of my hp

zealous sedge
#

Bro even the horrific visions corruption tree is time gated what the hell

#

Why do they insist on dragging out content in this way

#

I know it’s a really small thing but it speaks to a larger problem

silent urchin
#

because people will also complain if you "have" to grind it out week 1

#

it was also literally like this on PTR so I dunno why wowhead is doing clickbait bullshit about it being a surprise (I do actually know why they do that)

zealous sedge
#

Wowhead got me worked up over nothing I guess

#

Whoops

deep pawn
#

Was it? Everyone was assuming we got greater corruptions this week

silent urchin
#

the talent gating definitely was, you needed to do both SW and Org

#

I dunno why lesser corruptions would exist if greater ones were available immediately

deep pawn
#

lazier people? cheaper? Who knows

#

ooof

#

Blizzard would also drop the microtransaction when peoplare angry

zealous sedge
#

man im disappointed

#

i thought that fel stuff was gonna be trading post

uncut vault
#

Next month is "burning hearts", so the fiery versions probably will be there at least

zealous sedge
#

Oh nice

zealous sedge
#

How do y’all think the class order hall missions will work in remix?

#

I’m curious if they’ll have a system to speed up the missions

upper pasture
#

they might not even include them tbh

lavish raptor
#

I hope they do and also invent a weird evoker class hall with it's own missions

zealous sedge
#

Oh with evoker they might just scrap the order halls to lehrdaniel’s point unless they want to do that extra work

#

Although it would be disappointing to eliminate the class halls. They were such a big feature

silent urchin
#

Stamina and a built in socket added to the Durable Information Storage Container belt. oh it's actually good now I guess

#

build out btw

#

looks like there's a new conversation in the arathi questline giving some of the defias backstory, about the stonemasons not getting paid

upper pasture
#

Also the fact that evokers still dont have a mage tower challenge, doesn’t give me high hopes that they will make a whole class hall for us too

deep pawn
#

belt was already good

#

now you just don't feel bad giving up the stamina

silent urchin
#

oh good they've toned down the graphics for the lightning pools in overcharged delves a bit

ember blaze
dense plover
# silent urchin

i think i would prefer it if they added the circles around them or something - is the effect on the edge or the bright center?

lavish raptor
#

PTR TW is back

image.png
silent urchin
lavish raptor
#

ok done more bfa tw testing - i think the biggest thing is that there's stuff that isn't scaled at all. It tickles the lv80s and then oneshots low levels.

#

a lv15 and a lv80 rode thru an AD spider on the staircase and the 15 died and the 80 got like 5% dmg

#

the coffin mechanic on mchimba has a level req

image.png
warm topaz
upper pasture
#

Wait, I thought Christie wasn’t writing books for blizzard anymore, I’m excited

silent urchin
#

afaik the books are all one off contracts, so even if she no longer works on the story team full time they can still agree individual books

upper pasture
#

Interesting

tiny iris
#

So basically going back to what she was doing with Blizzard before she got hired

sullen dawn
#

So books yes, in game stuff no

harsh mason
silent urchin
harsh mason
#

She's just no longer part of the staff, but rather as an outside writer.

#

But that doesn't mean she doesn't work with Blizzard.

#

I'm also really looking forward to his new model in the game.

IMG_0612.png
upper pasture
#

Her statement very much reads as a step away from the IP as a whole and not just a “i just dont work there formally anymore”

#

Either way I’m glad to see more books coming from her

deep pawn
#

massive human biceps lol

silent urchin
#

Little disappointed in the tattoos tbh

#

thought they'd be much fancier

upper pasture
#

the ones on his arms look like armbands, the ones on his forehead look like veins lol

autumn relic
#

When do you think we can expect 11.2? Any PTR news about it?

silent urchin
#

fairly soon I imagine

#

there's an xbox not-e3 showcase on june 8th, that's a potential reveal date

#

although I'd expect something telling us there's a big wow deep dive beforehand

autumn relic
#

ohh ok^^ thanks you wery much 😄

sullen dawn
#

Next 2 weeks +/- a few days basically

ionic terrace
pulsar minnow
#

Arator’s new model is not the half elf son of a Windrunner we need to be worried about

#

Because there is something far more terrifying out there…

ionic terrace
#

still annoyed their mom wasn't part of the kirin tor quests

#

a lil bit with her and Rhonin would've been nice

pulsar minnow
#

Agreed. Massive miss

#

Just praying that they don’t forget she exists in midnight

sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
#

Or at least allerias big moment for sure

ionic terrace
#

i also would've enjoyed Kinndy and her parents playing a role

#

oh well

#

at least they did finally add jaxi in dornogal

pulsar minnow
#

Still a bit surprised that Arators tattoos stretch up to his head. From the short story I had thought the dragons only swirled around his arms

silent urchin
#

I suspect it;s been modified a bit so you can actually see them on the bits not hidden by armour

warm topaz
#

omg please, i need that

pulsar minnow
uncut vault
#

because atm these don't even look like dragons haha

pulsar minnow
warm topaz
pulsar minnow
upper pasture
#

Just until she gets “everyone” from the maw or whatever

pulsar minnow
#

I just think the Eternal ones stepping in to help the titans would be a good way to get her back

uncut vault
#

the way it's framed is an effective eternity, due to how big the Maw is

#

but I feel like they might eventually amend that because it makes the covenants look like huge assholes for leaving all that work to prevent further suffering to one woman lol

#

I expect them to do some kind of "probation for good deeds + further atonement for your people" with Sylvanas, have someone go to her in the Maw and recruit her to defend Quel'thalas successfully this time around

#

and then she'll go back at the end of the xpac, ala Ysera at the end of Dragonflight

warm topaz
uncut vault
#

the easy answers are someone like her sisters or Tyrande

#

but I think the most interesting one would be Lilian

warm topaz
#

i was thinking about her too!!!

#

Lilian would be awesome

uncut vault
#

Would tie really well into her story chapter from TWW, and work to mend the divide between Sylvanas and the Forsaken a bit

GQOZnKpaoAAxau1.png
#

if they want to make it 'even', have it be both Vereesa and Lilian to go there

#

that way it can touch on both her thalassian roots and her modern undead story

warm topaz
#

i wonder how they'll write Sylvanas when she returns

uncut vault
#

If 9.2/9.2.5 is any indication, I think they know that even a "redeemed" Sylvanas needs to keep her snark

#

it's the big thing that sets her apart from most of the other protagonists

warm topaz
#

and there are so many open fronts. The reunion with Anduin, her sisters, the return to Lordaeron, Quel'thalas...

deep pawn
#

Time flows differently in the Shadowlands

#

Her eternity can be up whenever

#

The book does block of any of our darkest theories for the end of TWW though

upper pasture
#

I wonder if the book is gonna tie in legion remix somehow

zealous sedge
#

Listen I didn’t play SL but I feel like sylvanas should remain utterly irredeemable - unless she sacrifices herself in the final battle against whoever for the greater good. But no afterlife for her. Just darkness.

upper pasture
#

I mean, that’s your take, but I think the stuff in SLs showed a lot of growth for her and her facing the ones she wronged and being sentenced to what she got was a pretty good redemption for her. I’d love to see her come back and fight for the “right” side.

glass flicker
#

Arator's hair... is not great.

#

This is the second time the son of an important lore character has a bad haircut.

upper pasture
#

Like no way that’s just slicked back

glass flicker
#

I like Arator's overall design, but there are plenty of flaws. The hair, the dragons not being sleeve tattoos, the Judgement set not having the iconic shoulderpads again.

glass flicker
#

Looks to me like it might be just slicked back.

#

And why are his eyes gold instead of blue? Not even the Alleria animated vid could get it right.

#

Mfw they made his eyes green in the Light and Shadow short.

#

Arator just can't keep a consistent eye color.

#

Blue in-game, gold in promotional art, green in the animated vid.

#

Maybe his eyes did change to gold when Velen dropped a chandelier into the Sunwell, but I don't think I've seen him with gold eyes in-game yet.

ember blaze
#

like what kind of art style is it supposed to be 🤔

glass flicker
ember blaze
#

the proportions and everything just looked 🤮

glass flicker
#

The most punchable child ever.

ember blaze
#

like what was the idea behind this

sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

Artist only drew veneers obviously

little hound
deep pawn
#

new PC gamer interview

harsh mason
#

I think they should generally cut down on the number of allowed addons, especially those that affect the game. In fact, people are now playing like robots.

#

The bad thing is that for so long they did not regulate addons and their impact on the game, but simply adjusted the game to the addons.…

deep pawn
#

That's what they want to do, but it'll be growing pains

glass flicker
#

I support them shutting off computational addons, since they've tried making mechanics that sidestep them instead, which often just ends up as clutter.

#

It's why I stopped raiding and doing M+. Too complicated. Delves are fine, they're simple.

warm topaz
#

they don't post anymore on twitter

#

but they know how to get interactions

silent urchin
#

Every time I see a screenshot of someones UI and it's got like 40 cooldowns listed on it I really wonder how often they actually look at those

#

PC gamer seemed to make the whole thing slightly alarmist, but other places have been 10x worse.

#

I always feel like PC gamer strip out some of the context of interviews when they summarise them into a dozen or so quotes

upper pasture
#

That’s really only gonna hurt Aug the most, oh well lol

silent urchin
#

Aug does have it's special built in thing (that afaik sucks, but maybe they'll improve it)

deep pawn
#

they literally posted on twitter just to rage bait lol.

silent urchin
#

Well half the main site articles are clickbaity anyway. But gotta pay the bills

deep pawn
#

looks like no news day

zealous sedge
#

It’s gonna be a news drought until 11.2 reveal I bet

rain cave
#

because if you can track what people are casting around you, through the tech used in DPS meters for example, you can always detect when someone casts something and just have a timer triggered from that

#

unless they want to integrate that functionality into the base game somehow? because it is useful to track things like interrupts, or other healers CD's

silent urchin
#

they will not let addons get that data, it'll be a protected function

rain cave
#

so they're going to get rid of DPS meters as well?

silent urchin
#

dramatically cahnging how they work. Much of it will be blizz managed

deep pawn
#

they're planning on a built in dps meter

rain cave
#

cool

#

I hope they figure out a way of allowing augmentation's contribution to be seen live :P

ember blaze
#

although maybe they change their minds for the in game meters

silent urchin
#

huh, new PTR build

#

probably just some minor fixes?

silent urchin
#

No data changes so probably just an exe fix I guess

deep pawn
#

I got ratio'd by being the messenger on the subreddit with the Ion interview lol.

silent urchin
#

you gotta make the post just a little more ragebaity than the article and then you get 1000 upvotes

deep pawn
#

Haha, true.

#

"Ion details plans to gut your favorite combat add-ons in PC Gamer interview"

#

I'm still kinda shocked they've only promised no changes in 11.2.0

#

As in 11.2.5 is a possibility

silent urchin
#

I'd be very surprised if it happened before pre-patch

#

It's one of those bits where I find it really annoying that PCgamer summarise the interviews the way they do

#

cause the way Ion said it can give a wildly different impression as to when it might come

#

11.1.7 and 11.2 are probably both pretty much nailed down as to the features

#

past that is probably a bit more vague

#

But in general it could just have been "It's not any time soon" or "We're looking at it for 11.2.5"

crude sigil
#

I think it's not really acted yet ... Since many years we heard some kind of things. Yes, they want to have some feature from addons directly integrated in the game. But pretty hard "to balance things" and update that without major changes about game design

silent urchin
#

the previous video made it sound like it was gonna be years before it all happened, it's gonna be incremental anyway

lavish raptor
deep pawn
#

Oh in this case its because I was neutral

#

The top comment is complaining

deep pawn
#

The wording only blocking off the next 2 feels weird

#

I feel like a lot of Ion's role lately is to lob stuff as "discussions" when they've already decided on stuff

lavish raptor
#

i made a reddit post about how timewalking was changing to scale with your level in 11.0.5 based off a list of datamined string changes + how because of this they weren't going to fix ongoing scaling issues in TW raids and mage tower and people claimed I was overreacting

#

and guess what happened

deep pawn
#

Like they hinted at talents coming back long before DF was revealed

#

Mostly in stuff about "we hear you that levelling doesn't feel fulfilling"

#

I feel like there's been enough subtle hints about slowing the game down for me to be hard coping about some sort of major combat rework in Midnight

lavish raptor
#

I feel like adding in a "hard mode" feature that adds difficulty to xp gain and mob fighting could be a beneficial thing, but i dont know how that could interact with mmo dungeon groups and whatnot

#

People get unnecessarily heated in normal dungeons as it is

ionic terrace
#

huh well i guess mop will have these too

image.png
#

i figured cm would be it

deep pawn
#

Nah, why not continue something that lets dungeon players get gear

subtle oar
glass flicker
tropic trail
silent urchin
#

higher dungeon difficulties, I assume

#

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Elemental_Rune_Dungeon this was the cata versions

Warcraft Wiki
Elemental Rune Dungeon

Much like the Titan Rune Dungeons, the Elemental Rune Dungeons (often referred to as Heroic+) is an optional game mode that can be activated with the Mysterious Elemental Device in heroic dungeons that were introduced with Cataclysm. Upon activating the device, the party will then need to channel the new object that spawned (named after the Prot...

sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

Gods the sun used to be huge in the skybox

image.png
ember blaze
#

can we get more unique races and not elves

image.png
deep pawn
#

Naga would be unique

lavish raptor
#

Elves but make them snakes

dense plover
#

willing to bet if they ever do naga it will be like evoker or naga and most people will be fish elves 90% of the time

rain cave
#

and it'd probably lore explained as giving the naga back an elf form as part of them rejoining the factioins

dense plover
#

more likely to be like 'breaking the hold of nzoth' or something

rain cave
#

yeah

#

like letting them get quasi purified by in some kind of well, maybe a joint effort by the blood/high elves and the night elves

#

like combining some of the moonwell and sunwells stuff

#

hell maybe the worgen even step in to vouch for them, like the night elves did for the worgen

#

"I know you haave beef with them but they're your people as well, curses be damned"

tulip sun
dense plover
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

considering the evoker armor backlash which is LESS justified?

#

no chance they dont get an elf form

tulip sun
#

A slightly modified elf would be a let down. I'd prefer they just do a race they can truly add

#

Let Naga be an npc races.

deep pawn
#

I've always said just an illusion form but because they aren't Azshara, it's imperfect thus fishy scaly

#

Only issue is mounts but I'd just rig a certain subset of mounts to work as chariots

upper pasture
#

or they have illusion form, but it's imperfect so it's broken with combat. they get humanoid form for tmog and mounts but combat is true naga form

#

ala evoker

#

not that i think we need another elven race

sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

Uniting the elven tribes and features to make us scream makes me think Naga are finally happening

#

Dracthyr are decently popular despite the limitations

#

We'll see in August though

#

Housing won't sell the expansion on everyone

#

Naga or High elf racials could

rain cave
#

just like evoker where you have the "visage" form

#

which has naga customisations

sullen dawn
#

Its a terrible approach

#

Honestly id rather dracthyr weren't in the game witj thr approach they took

upper pasture
#

i think a more terrible approach would be creating a class/race that cannot use 90% of the transmogs in game at all or creating a bunch of back work for modeling artists by adding a race/cllass that requires a ton of retro fitting for armor/weapns that people might not even use

sullen dawn
#

If they cant get just pure naga going with full transmog support, I say dont bither at all

rain cave
#

also people do like visage forms as a concept

#

for dragons

sullen dawn
#

Many dont

upper pasture
#

"many"

sullen dawn
#

Its anecdotal either way

rain cave
#

well, there's plenty of other franchises with dragons that don't have visages lmao

sullen dawn
#

But I hear more anti than pro opinions

rain cave
#

point being that a lot of fantasy people tend to like the idea of dragons having "visages" and also draconic-style mutations/stuff on humans is liked

sullen dawn
rain cave
sullen dawn
#

They should have given js Drakonids

#

With full transmog

rain cave
#

well they wanted to give us playable dragon magic so

#

this was their approach to giving us a new race AND class

sullen dawn
#

Yeh I really hate the direction the took the "dragon class"

#

Complete miss imo

rain cave
#

and that's fair to think

sullen dawn
#

I know it is

upper pasture
rain cave
#

the thing is how ELSE do they do a dragon class

#

without it just being dragon magic hero talents for other classes

#

which I think they probably concepted originally for dragonflight atleast early on

sullen dawn
#

Id rather we just got something lkke tjis with transmog support

rain cave
#

but that's not a class

#

I do agree drakonids would be nice though

sullen dawn
#

Were talkkng about playable races i thought

rain cave
#

yes but in the context of dragonflight, they wanted to give us playable dragon magic

#

as in a class

#

they wanted to give both a class and a race

sullen dawn
#

I know that

#

Im not saying they failed tk deliver on what they wanted to do. Im saying they failed deliver on a concept that I think isnt lame

rain cave
#

you can dislike it that's fine there are bits of evokers that do fail to deliver I agree

#

but from the dev perspective ig you can see it as they wanted to try please:
-Dragon Enjoyers
-New class
-Visage form

and all the small bits that that entails

#

big notable ones being, using the magic of the dragons (all in one class, drakonids are dedicated to one flight), flying (wings), a visage form (something drakonids don't have),

#

and when concepting the idea of new class/race was probably locked in early because of how much work that can be

#

so basically within the design goals of dragonflight drakonids probably don't fit very well, even though they probably were an idea that was chucked around

#

you can want drakonids more, and not like evokers, but it's not a question of replacing one with the other they're entirely different things that would be used for different problems

#

if they ever get back to the dragons again in an expansion and we maybe see how far the dragon society has come in terms of liberties and societal change, maybe the drakonids will become playable now that alexstrasza has let them free after the rebellion

sullen dawn
#

I just think they chose the wrong direction

#

They achieved what they wanted to sure

deep pawn
#

I still love my Dracthyr

sullen dawn
#

Tbh I like almost all the races kn the game except dracythr and vulpera

#

I didn't like void elves bjt they've grown on me and have a lot of potential in midnight

rain cave
rain cave
#

though I understand why they didn't do sethrakk since they're hard to rig for and fit tmog on

sullen dawn
#

Sehtrakk would have been killer

#

Id have probably made two, a monk and a elemental shaman

#

BFA had such cool races (enemy npc wise)

rain cave
#

imagine a tortollan bladestorm animation

sullen dawn
#

Same way vulpera are modified goblins, mechangomes gnomes etc..

deep pawn
#

Vulpera were insanely popular during beta

#

They basically reworked the model to be playable after beta

#

I don't think Kul Tiran were planned immediately either

#

Though they have druids so I'm not sure how true that rumor is

rain cave
deep pawn
#

Hmm, got my order backwards then. I remember people being shocked they got delayed

rain cave
#

oh wait actually it was dark iron in the reveal trailer

#

I forgot about that

#

that is weird though considering zandalari were the opposite there

#

@deep pawn mb I got it wrong xD

#

I do seem to remember the kultirans being in a trailer though, that's strange

deep pawn
#

Zandalari got delayed to pair with Kul Tiran then

rain cave
#

I think it might have been that they needed extra time for the druid forms of kultirans, and they cobbled the mag'har in to be opposite the dark iron

#

or maybe there was just not great communication internally on what they wanted eaxctly for kultirans since they weren't as fleshed out prior to the xpac

#

like the zandalari had an established "look" already, and I'd say their aesthetic is more solid and developped than the kultirans

deep pawn
#

Then of course Alliance got mechagnomes against Vulpera

rain cave
#

people talk about alliance bias but by god did the horde get a goldmine in terms of races in bfa

#

just in terms of what they are

deep pawn
#

I dunno

rain cave
#

like obv there were a lot of issues with allied races overall that they came back to address

deep pawn
#

I think Alliance wins with Void Elves and Dark Iron. Tie with Kul Tirans, and only outright loses with Draenei and Mechagnomes

rain cave
#

but lets look at horde in bfa specifically at the time,
new skeleton with new druid forms that ALSO have new animations
mag'har a long requested option and a questline for them with big lore ramifications,
highmountain were loved in legion but still probably the weakest one here,
nightborne (despite customisation being lacking) also a beloved race from legion with a whole questline you can play with a fleshed out culture and aesthetic
vulpera, finally a normal furry race for horde, just naturally means a lot for the faction since it means the people who like animal races now have an option on horde that's cute

#

meanwhile on alliance,
lightforged which weren't fleshed out much and aren't even led by one of their own race, and don't change the base draenei fantasy much (in the way that broken would)
void elves, shoehorned in and not highelves (at the time in bfa, later changed to have blue eyes etc), so not capitalizing on the desire for high elves to the point it caused an uproar
dark iron, probably the best in terms of what we got and good lore but also dwarves aren't played very much sadly
kultiran, cool lore in their shamans and druids, but the druid forms don't have new animations (unlike zandalari) and at the end of they day they are just more humans and their aesthetic is inconsistent

ember blaze
#

i think vulpera was the only win considering theyre the only new race that isnt a copy paste of the other ones

#

and kultirans are just fat humans

rain cave
#

they've definetly equalled out a bit as years have gone on, void elves have been fleshed out, nightborne got more customisation, for example. But I mean as in the what BFA was showing us as it was coming out, I'd say horde wins the race wa- there needs to be better phrasing than that

deep pawn
#

LF Draenei, HMT, Maghar should have been customization options

rain cave
#

probably, wasn't there a rumour that some of the expansions were shifted around?

#

and we got all those customisations in shadowlands

deep pawn
#

I think they thought different racials were cool enough

#

Shadowlands and Eredar were in response to allied race reception

rain cave
#

yee I'd assume as much#

#

I'm still convinced they're going to do some kind of race revamp post TLT

#

since that's going to be the next time we set out on another saga or atleast sort of "reset" the narrative to a place of neutrality to grow again

deep pawn
#

Doors wide open for after TLT. I'm fully charged expecting a level squish

#

Like we're gonna hit level 100 again in TLT

rain cave
#

and if this saga has had hero talents as the big thing to keep going and basically change how classes work going forward, maybe they'll do races next?

deep pawn
#

Level squish, full systems wipe, etc

rain cave
#

I mean we'll see if they even raise level cap

deep pawn
#

I think hero talents are retired after the saga

rain cave
#

they said it was evergreen

deep pawn
#

But also said when things get too overloaded that it was a future blizzard problem

#

Its evergreen in that they aren't going away in Midnight, but things don't last forever

#

Talents were evergreen in classic til they weren't

sullen dawn
#

They weren't kn the og datamkne but that doesnt mean they weren't planned originally

sullen dawn
#

Vrykul and tuskarr playable as a wild card bonus

#

Rebel titans as renown tracks

deep pawn
#

If Midnight starts with no flying I don't even buy haha

sullen dawn
#

Sargeras, Eonar, Khazgaoth, Amitus

sullen dawn
#

If dynamic ground mounts might postpone it. But those could be cool as hell if done right

deep pawn
#

I'm not kidding. I don't like dynamic ground mounts. I barely tolerate dynamic flying

sullen dawn
#

I could see horses, wolves and hawkstriders being done first in midnight

sullen dawn
#

I prefer more friction and "gameplay" in my traversal

#

I dont like going in and out of "gameplay mode"

deep pawn
#

I don't, travel is inherently boring

#

I use flight paths and tab to go to Mereldar

#

I have real life for annoying travel

sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

Walking and trains still travel

sullen dawn
#

Nice travel tho

#

Dont you think it would be cool if frog mounts were slow but could jump really really high

#

As long as the option for flying was still there I think itd be ok

deep pawn
#

Yeah but we have people still saying remove flying

sullen dawn
#

I dont want flying removed from the game, but I would like options for it not being present

#

Maybe in a world where war mode got a major upgrade, or if the world tier experiment from legion remix makes it to live

#

One or more of the tiers could have no flying, but something good to offset it

#

"Grounded" mode haha

#

They'll prolly need to merge more servers if they split into more "world modes" though

#

An ideal end result would be 1 megaserver with like 4-5 world mode options and all of azeroth remade so players are spread across many zones

#

So like 5 x 30 zones with far less servers, vs the usual 2 (war mode and regular) x 4 zones per expansion with far more servers as players are densely packed

rain cave
#

I do think that flying and ground travel just have their place

#

and both blizz and players can get too complacent turning the game into a checklist

#

like if you're afking and tabbed out while you travel somewhere, to me that's a potential sign of a failure

sullen dawn
deep pawn
rain cave
#

whilst I love dynamic flying and think it's a lot better than old flying, i do think there's an issue in some places where there's just not enough to let it thrive

#

like we have the updrafts in certain areas but I think they should expand it so there are like currents that take you all the way round

#

obv not into niche areas

#

I'm not entirely sure how to fix it, but the issue I've found is that sometimes you just feel like you just have to wait for the stamina bar when you have to go up somewhere

#

or are very quickly completing WQ's or objectives

#

alternatively there's other times mainly in hallowfall where you're just mindlessly floating through the larger open air, and sometimes can't reach all the way to the cliff where the updrafts even start

upper pasture
#

Im gonna be real there’s very few times im left with zero vigor, so maybe its a less of the system being a failure and a user error?

rain cave
#

I mean it's not a big issue for me generally

#

but it happens when I'm in a flow state which just leads to disruption

#

as in back in DF we had the ability to regenerate vigor from killing things or gathering

#

but that passive is no longer there a afaik, so it means if you're landing, picking up a quest item/gathering node, using the take off to move to the next one, etc etc

#

then you just drain your vigor very quickly because you're taking off and landing in quick succession to hop between things

#

I think it's probably just simply that TWW's zones aren't built as much for the dynamic flying, as in we don't have all the side passives and it's not as well designed for it as a movement system

#

the dragon isles were basically designed from the ground up to let dragonriding just work in it

deep pawn
#

gathering is still there

#

its honestly stronger now

rain cave
#

interesting, not seen it in the flying tree

#

I'm not even fully sure how unlocking dynamic flying works for new players now, there's still the things you can gather by flying through them in the ringing deeps

#

but do we still need that?

upper pasture
upper pasture
rain cave
#

I mean the one from DF that gave you vigor from gathering

upper pasture
#

Since the “natural path for a new player would be DF->TWW

upper pasture
# rain cave isn't that just the gathering doesn't demount you one?

Unless you are a Druid or plan to use the Sky Golem Sky Golem, max out the first ring of Botany Botany first since this affords some of the most immediate and tangible quality-of-life benefits. Just learning Botany replenishes Vigor when harvesting herbs; maxing the first ring with 40 points allows you to gather herbs in Khaz Algar while mounted. As you get from 1 to 40, you'll also earn good across-the-board increases to Deftness, Finesse, and Perception for all herbs

#

It’s cooked into picking that spec the non dismount is the final talent

pulsar minnow
#

Kinda late jumping into this conversation, but I pretty much almost always use halt before I land just to get one vigor back so I can immediately take off again when gathering or whatever else

upper pasture
#

but you should be gettting a vigor back from picking and or mining an ore

rain cave
#

thought that was just for stopping xD

upper pasture
#

aslong as you were in the "high speeds"

pulsar minnow
#

Yeah, if you do the double ascend to get to max speed you should gain a little bit of vigor on the descend. That with the full point granted by halt and then the time to do whatever quick task it is typically makes it so you don’t run out

sullen dawn
glass flicker
#

What are the odds that we'll get a Myst Isles rework in a Midnight patch content update? They're making it so we can go to Quel'Thalas without a loading screen, but what about the Draenei zones?

#

Not to mention the Draenei are involved with the Void, as shown in Eredath.

thin warren
#

Eredath, the broken planet?

#

or how is it called

glass flicker
#

Eredath, the broken region of Argus, the broken planet.

thin warren
#

ah, Argus, yes!

glass flicker
#

I'm thinking we'll have a patch in Azuremyst and Bloodmyst, or something. Now fully on Kalimdor's map.

#

Maybe Bloodmyst can be a battleground.

plain violet
#

Quite possible...

#

Hinting at the new city too.

thin warren
#

can't wait what will happen in the 3d season

deep pawn
#

I want to know but I'm scared it'll ruin the expansion for me.

glass flicker
#

Let's see. 12.0, Quel'Thalas patch. 12.1, Myst Isles, 12.2, Ethereals patch. Be it either on Azeroth or in space. Hell, maybe even go back to Outland for a bit.

thin warren
#

in 3 weeks we have some more lore, so can't wait for that

glass flicker
#

Regardless of what they end up doing, I'm sure the first patch will be great, and I'll have a ton of fun taking my velfie through it.

thin warren
#

first the .2 patch!

zealous sedge
#

It would be a big miss for me if Draenei didn’t get updated zones in midnight

glass flicker
#

Yeah, we still have 11.2 to get through.

pulsar minnow
#

I could see 12.1 being maybe Zul aman or light lands maybe.

12.2 could be the void. I like the idea of skyriding into the sunwell to get there

deep pawn
#

I really think 12.0 will be a Troll raid.

lavish raptor
#

Void trolls.....volls

deep pawn
#

They'll be the Nerubians of Midnight that we kill and forget about

uncut vault
#

One can hope they'll be more akin to the Arathi than the Nerubians

#

a zone we're mostly allied with, but who have subsects allied with the void

deep pawn
#

eh.. I think the hatreds go too deep for that, but who knows.

uncut vault
#

Almost like that's what story can help solve :P

deep pawn
#

Not without first seeing the vast majority give in to the void seeking revenge.

#

It's not impossible they become the next Drakkari

uncut vault
#

that's the worst possible angle for blizz to take after the decades of critique over troll story they've gotten haha

#

Not impossible, because it's Blizzard, but awful if they do it

deep pawn
#

I mean it'd fit in the themes of the saga about letting the worst of us lead us to ruin and destruction.

#

An example for the Elves to get their crap together.

pulsar minnow
#

I really think there’s far more interesting things to do with the Amani than just kick their asses for the billionth time

#

My hope is Zul Aman gets expanded into an entire zone rather than just the raid

upper pasture
#

I just hope if they bring back the trolls we get more shadow hunters lore and more Vol’jin screen time

pulsar minnow
ember blaze
#

those new toys

#

more unique races tied to a temp toy 🛌

tulip sun
#

I suspect we will befriend a group that escaped corruption. (In this case, the body of whatever it is under their temple void corrupting them and probably their current chieftain)

#

And we aid the survivors

deep pawn
#

That's my guess too with Vol'jin as his new Loa of Trolls role.

#

There's one more thing we could see with the Ethereals. Maybe they're all void corrupted enough that Xalatath can just mind control and thus use for her attack

#

She just wasn't gonna do it til they wronged her

upper pasture
#

tbf they said he was "more than a loa" but who knows what they will change their mind to

glass flicker
#

Pretty easy to imagine. He could be the avatar of someone we've never seen. i.e. An'she.
Remember when Elune took over Tyrande and spoke through her? Yeah, that.

#

So he could be the new Loa of Kings, but also An'she's chosen, or even Eonar's.

upper pasture
#

wasn't that the implications was he was the new loa of kings cause rezan gave him his essence to keep vol'jin alive in the maw, or whatever was happening there. then someone was like "oh he's the new loa of kings...no he's something...more"

glass flicker
#

We'll see, when and if it happens.

zealous sedge
#

I’m excited for a new Lor’themar model and a new Rommath model

#

Also I hope Aethas is more involved in midnight. I love his dialogue in the Kirin Tor storyline from .7

#

Or .5 I can’t remember which one

glass flicker
#

Why would Lor'Themar get a new model? He got one in BfA.

#

Like, don't get me wrong, it's not a great outfit, but it's better than not having an unique model at all.

#

My eye is primarily drawn to his lack of belt, and how top heavy his armor is.

#

Then again, Merithra didn't get a new model until the Emerald Dream patch, despite Dragonflight being supposed to be her expansion.

lavish raptor
#

maybe ppl saw the new arator art and thought it was lorthemar

glass flicker
#

Actually mad that Ysera got a better model than Merithra.

#

Ysera. A character we probably won't get to see again.

#

Make it make sense, 'cause I can't. This was supposed to be Merithra's model.

#

She literally has MERIT in her name.

zealous sedge
#

The armor does kinda suck tho

glass flicker
#

I agree.

#

I like his loading screen look better.

zealous sedge
#

Yeah totally

#

What class is he supposed to be

#

Warrior?

glass flicker
lavish raptor
#

shout out to gallywix not having a unique character model until late legion

glass flicker
#

God, he looks so cool fully armored.