#beta-ptr-spoilers

1 messages · Page 124 of 1

harsh mason
#

That is, one can only deliberately imagine that there will be a separate faction of ethereals who are against Xal

lyric heart
#

But I still don’t think she would’ve sent ethereals after them. In the first cutscene, she seemed more annoyed than mad. Not like someone who was about to send people to kill citizens of undermine. Maybe intimidate them—maybe. i think this is a different faction or shadowguard members who are against her.

harsh mason
#

And someone here really thinks that Xal won't send his colleagues to kill the residents, seriously?

lyric heart
#

I don’t. That’s my opinion 🤷‍♀️

#

And it turned out that she actually hadn’t sent those ethereals anyway

deep pawn
#

The Ethereals were helping fix the heart too. They literally kidnapped Nogginfogger's wife for Gallywix.

#

I absolutely think he thought they were on her side

harsh mason
#

I think there were 2 different factions of ethereals there.

#

I remember there were ethereals in TBC who are fighting against Void, while using void themselves. And they were just as hostile to us.

#

In short, I think that Azir will be the final boss of 11.2.🗿

lyric heart
#

I can see that

sullen dawn
#

The ones we work with, the ones fighting the void, ans the void worshippers

#

Ethereum, Consorteum, Shadowguard

#

I think there's a few more actually

#

Protectorate

#

And a few smaller ones but I think theyre outland specific

pulsar minnow
#

Personally I want Xal Atath to be the final boss of 11.2 but she just completely kicks our ass

#

I’m hoping it’s more of a fight for survival/escape than a fight to win

sullen dawn
#

I hope xal isnt the final final void threat

pulsar minnow
#

Like she begins to summon Dimensius halfway through the fight and we just have to run

sullen dawn
#

Id prefer something a little less "human coded"

pulsar minnow
#

Agreed. But that said I hope they actually develop dimensius if they make him the final void threat

sullen dawn
lyric heart
#

I don’t want her to be a final boss any time soon. She’s too interesting of a character to just have her leave the story

pulsar minnow
#

TWW is the beginning of the saga. This is where we establish the characters and motivations

lyric heart
#

And Xal is a strong female antagonist, one that hopefully won’t go the way of Sylvanas (I still love Sylvanas, but she went off the deep end).

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
lyric heart
#

True

sullen dawn
#

She'll likely play a big role in midnight

lyric heart
#

Oh yeah, she’s definitely coming back

sullen dawn
#

She has strong links tk both void and elf stories

sullen dawn
#

Karesh is the perfect vector for that

pulsar minnow
#

Yes it’s a void invasion but Dimensius is a character on par with Sargeras. Sargeras had the benefit of being built up in the lore since WC3

#

I still definitely think this expansion is going to go from K’aresh to silvermoon to the light lands

sullen dawn
#

It would be jailer situaiton

#

Marginally better i guess since we know "he exists"

pulsar minnow
#

I’ve said it like a thousand times now but my feeling is that the clash of the light vs void is going to finally introduce us, maybe just by proxy, An’she or Elune who are going to plant the seeds for the cosmic conspiracy. Simply because those are the two most prevalent gods from their cosmologies to appear in Renilash and a potential tie to Azeroth herself

#

And the world core is probably gonna get breached and signal the titans back

lyric heart
#

I read a thing on Reddit recently where someone said Xal is possibly connected to Elune. I also watched a video on how she’s possibly the Karesh world soul because so much of what she wears is similar to the ethereals.

#

And Locus Walker knows who she is

#

I like those theories, but I don’t know the lore well enough to say I believe either

pulsar minnow
#

Well she is familiar with Elune for sure

#

She calls her an upstart goddess

lyric heart
#

Yep

#

As I’m playing through legion, a lot of what she says is really interesting and has me wondering about some things

#

(I missed legion)

pulsar minnow
#

My personal theory is Azeroth is a First One or at least something above a titan

sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
sullen dawn
#

But defo argus

#

There was that voice novella thkng where they said azeroth and argus were the same sort of being

lyric heart
#

I definitely don’t think Azeroth is a titan

lyric heart
sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
#

I also think Elune, the Winter Queen, and An’she are Azeroths actual kids.

It would explain why the Winter Queen came to Ardenweald after it had already existed for a long time, and also explain why Xal calls Elune an upstart goddess

sullen dawn
#

The leading theory is world souls can "become" titans, but they aren't inherintly them

sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
#

Fuck I forgot about that crap

sullen dawn
#

Because her current form eas created in the shaowlands

lyric heart
#

What if Elune and Xal are sisters or Xal represents the dark side of the moon

pulsar minnow
sullen dawn
sullen dawn
lyric heart
#

That is a theory I like, mostly because it makes me think of Pink Floyd

sullen dawn
#

Goat band

lyric heart
#

Agreed

pulsar minnow
#

I know it’s borderline insane and makes no sense but I pray they retcon shadowlands and say that there are real pantheon members but were overthrown by the titans and replaced with robots

sullen dawn
#

Effectively were "imprisoned" in the robot bodies

#

Not created from scratch as robots

pulsar minnow
#

I really think the Primus would ally with the titans in TLT and we’d find out Zovaal was right. Give the character maybe an ounce of posthumous personality

lyric heart
#

It really felt like they were flying by the seat of their pants with shadowlands

pulsar minnow
#

I really like the idea of An’she finding out what the titans are doing to his mom and launching out of the sun at Mach fuck and slamming into Ulduar

sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
#

Also need to see Vyranoth tear off Odyn’s head

lyric heart
#

I didn’t play all the way through, but it did seem like that

sullen dawn
#

I love him

#

Great character

pulsar minnow
#

Oh same

lyric heart
#

I thought the original trailers were cool, but the story was a let down

pulsar minnow
#

I was a warrior in legion he was so funny

sullen dawn
#

His arrogance is hilarious

pulsar minnow
#

I also like that he would act like a complete moron but then once pissed you saw the actual conniving plotting and scheming side of him

uncut vault
#

The individual characterization of the void lords is underexplored, but their motive is (at least until they change it lol) pretty simple and well known

#

There’s no cosmic 5D chess manipulating everyone in the cosmos, they’re just looking to convert a strong enough worldsoul to make a Titan-equivalent being in the physical plane

sullen dawn
#

I'm not saying its as bad as jailer, but we do need more context

#

Like converting a worldsoul is a means to an end, not an end in of itself

uncut vault
#

Well we do have the context more or less, they want what the titans want: a cosmos dominated by their cosmic force

#

The titans have been doing that by converting world souls into more titans, the void lords want to do that by converting world souls into void beings

sullen dawn
#

Im just saying, it needs to explored further

#

And yeh dimensius specifically needs a lot of introduction

#

Understanding the motives of why they want to win is important imo, otherwise cosmic forces are just different colours of the exact same thing, which is lame

uncut vault
# sullen dawn Yeh but why

As much as I hate to say it, this is definitely a story designed to play into the larger First Ones plot

#

And is definitely not something we will get answers to until TLT at earliest

sullen dawn
uncut vault
#

All the cosmic forces are motivated by that same idea, but the why ties into what Firim theorizes at the end of Shadowlands: that the cosmic design is made to fail because of the conflict between forces

sullen dawn
#

Right now I dont know or care about the void Lords beyond, oh big purple bad guys

sullen dawn
#

Life is hungry

#

Fel/chaos is survival of the fittest

uncut vault
#

Having those motives definitely helps, and I’m sure they’ll give one somewhere for Dimensius

#

But they aren’t inherently needed, sometimes “big bad wants to blow up the universe” is motive enough for a protagonist-focused story

sullen dawn
uncut vault
#

Sargeras’ is never even mentioned in game, funnily

#

Nobody actually knows or really cares why he’s doing all this

sullen dawn
uncut vault
#

We only know because of Chronicle

sullen dawn
#

Chronicle is canon though. Id rather things are delivered in game, but as long as its delivered by some canon media im happy

uncut vault
#

Which most players have no knowledge of, just the in game plot of “big evil fel guy wants to destroy Azeroth”

sullen dawn
uncut vault
#

I agree, what I’m saying is that it’s not needed for the plot

#

I hope and expect we’ll get it, but the void works just fine as “big evil purple guys who want to corrupt the world” too

sullen dawn
#

I guess i just would prefer a good plot rather than a serviceable plot

#

I dont see that as a bad stance to take

uncut vault
#

Villains don’t always need to be ultra nuanced and “well their perspective makes it seem rational”

#

We never needed a complex motive for Gul’dan, he’s a phenomenal villain purely by virtue of being power hungry and amoral

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
#

Just substitute scientist with warlock

uncut vault
#

The void lords don’t need some complex motive, them being inherently entropic beings who want to consume the universe is just fine as motive, so long as the plot that results with our main characters is compelling

#

Sargeras’ motive never mattered in legion, the overarching threat is all that mattered

sullen dawn
#

I guess I just have higher expectations. They can be that sure, but some fleshing out should happen before midnight, is what id like to see

sullen dawn
uncut vault
#

They really don’t, though. The depth of the story told with illidan and Velen doesn’t need Sargeras’ motive, the turmoil with alleria’s struggle between light and void doesn’t need it, the struggle in Suramar doesn’t need it

#

It provides nice external context, but it’s never mattered to the story of our protagonists in the fight against the legion

sullen dawn
#

Batman for example is good because of the ckntext we have for its villains. Batman himself is boring as hell. It doesnt make the villains "rational" kt makes the world more contextualised and immersive, at least if yoj value good stories

#

I think you're wrong

uncut vault
#

That motive didn’t exist in WC3, but the story is still the most compelling narrative in the franchise because the existential threat is all that was needed to prompt compelling stories

#

If you can tell good stories with your protagonists, you don’t need a villain who brings in their justified motives

sullen dawn
#

WC3 was also a short, almost entirely selfl contained story. This is supposed tk be a multi year, multi expansion, epic "saga" of a narrative

uncut vault
#

More often than not, WoW thrives when it has a simple existential threat to prompt engaging turmoils in its protagonists

sullen dawn
lyric heart
#

I would say alleria is getting more interesting, but overall, they’re the typical good guys

sullen dawn
#

They've all blended into different instances of the same person with the exact same values and minor disagreements (but they all happily agree in the end)

uncut vault
sullen dawn
#

Sorry I meant objective haha

uncut vault
#

Objectively, the void lords do not need a complex, “actually that makes sense from their PoV” for Midnight to tell a compelling plot. It would be neat if they do, but WoW operates perfectly well with good story when its villains are unsympathetic existential threats

#

I’ll be fine if they do give Dimensius some complex motive, but I just hope you aren’t massively disappointed if they don’t haha

lyric heart
#

Honestly I dont think it’s going to be that complex

#

“We want to destroy everything and turn everything void.” Boom.

uncut vault
#

Xal’atath is a much bigger candidate for a compelling personal motive, she’s much more humanized in the current story and she’s being positioned as a saga-long antagonist

lyric heart
#

I agree

#

I want her to have a compelling story. Maybe not complicated but compelling.

#

I still want it to be something like she’s actually righting an injustice that needs to be righted but is going about it in the wrong way

deep pawn
#

aww, they're gonna disable corruptions in s3.

glass fulcrum
#

kinda have to eventually

deep pawn
#

should've just let it last for the reason of the expansion.

#

it's not like the ring where you want to upgrade a slot.

zealous sedge
#

Mods

sullen dawn
#

No

silent urchin
#

Looks like there's lesser and greater versions of the corruption enchants

#

rip, every single entry in the Toys table has been deleted

harsh mason
worn crown
#

Can't wait for the next mistake Xal does in next patch, hahah. Two in a row, she really is in the same league as N'zoth in BfA 😅

#

It is funny (or sad) how Blizz always does a 180 degrees turn when trying to change something - they go from villains who "know everything" to a villain who is made a fool by Alleria and Gallywix

upper pasture
#

how did gallywix make her look like a fool?

lone mantle
#

Gallywix promised Xal'atath a shiny Dark Heart fix, then ghosted her harder than a goblin in debt, only to get punked by an Ethereal.

lyric heart
#

But that’s what great about her. She’s not all-seeing and all-knowing. She’s real, and she makes mistakes

#

I like that her plans got changed and now she’s having to improvise. I also had plans that got changed and threw my life into chaos, so i understand her anger on a personal level.

upper pasture
#

he didn't "ghost" her. he fixed it but then it got stolen by the ethereals basically using the fact that they seemed like her allies. nothing Gallywix did was to slight Xal'atath. he did what he did because he didn't know any better.

lyric heart
#

He did kinda ghost her by not giving her updates on his progress.

lone mantle
#

Precisely!

#

By observing his expression, it is evident that he had no intention of returning it.

Screenshot_2025-03-27_at_00.49.41.png
lyric heart
#

His journals say it too

clear apex
#

Id really like a bad guy to win for once, even if for a while

lyric heart
#

Same. I’m curious about what that would look like

clear apex
#

Not just for a patch, but if she gets what she wants and we're totally screwed until the end of tlt

lyric heart
#

I feel the same way

#

I want her to change the game

#

Characters like her are always really fascinating to me. They’re evil but have usually good motive. I don’t think her motive is just “I want to cause chaos and destruction.”

upper pasture
#

we've already been told we aren't "winning" TWW

#

which likely means she's gonna accomplish part of her plans

lyric heart
#

What I find interesting is she went after people who were already on the path to being corrupted. All she had to do was whisper in their ear.

#

Does that mean shadow priests who played legion can be corrupted 😬

deep pawn
#

We win in Midnight though, but in a way that makes the Titans mad.

uncut vault
#

I'm still betting that Iridikron's basically orchestrated a win-win for himself

#

either the void wins, titans are forced to come down to handle it

#

or we win, and whatever light aftermath or damage done to the worldsoul forces the titans to come and handle it

lyric heart
#

I keep forgetting iridikron is even a thing

uncut vault
#

for how insanely important to kicking off the worldsoul saga he is, it's kind of funny how much he's not involved in the underground xpac as an earth dragon

deep pawn
#

Cause he's gonna be our first raid in Northrend

#

I mean it's kinda obvious

#

I just wanna see which Titan he ganks.

#

He's gonna killsteal some loot

#

He doesn't care at all about anything until the Titans show up

sullen dawn
#

Definitely. But not before he snipes Golganneth

sullen dawn
#

That's the lame titan no one cares about

lyric heart
#

Yep, he’s only there for the titans

ember blaze
#

i wonder if the dragon aspects will have some role again?

lyric heart
#

Maybe? They are tied to Azeroth, so it would make sense

zealous sedge
#

the aspects will turn against us because the titans will control them somehow. thats my hot take

glass flicker
#

My hot take is that Illidan's destiny was not to be Lightforged by Xe'ra, but blessed by Azeroth.

#

Cosmic forces simply want to sway the Child of Light and Darkness to their side. That's the plot of The Last Titan. At least that's what I think.

zealous sedge
#

i think Azeroth will be the embodiment of all the cosmic forces based on all the influences over millenia and thats something the titans dont realize.

pulsar minnow
#

Or at least the aspects

#

They’re fully empowered by Azeroth, the same being who overrode the Earthen programming and gave them free will

glass flicker
#

That's true. Besides, they got Vyranoth on their side now, she'd be totally against anything Titan-related.

pulsar minnow
#

Exactly

#

They’re also just the dragon aspects. They’re supposed to be the Warcraft equivalent of the avengers

#

They defend this planet and its inhabitants no matter the cost, something the titans clearly don’t care about

lyric heart
#

I also doubt they’d turn against us. They didn’t give them back their aspectral powers only to turn around and be like “just kidding. They’re with the titans again.”

deep pawn
#

Tyr hasn't dealt with Alexstrasza's supposed betrayal yet.

rain cave
#

Arator fits the title so much better

#

He even has those tattoos now...

sullen dawn
elfin eagle
sullen dawn
#

Aggravated!

elfin eagle
#

We alrdy fought him once so players recognize him

sullen dawn
#

I feel like he has slightly more story potential though. Id like to see him fight Sargeras

#

Golganneth is just a throwaway nobody titan

rain cave
#

Kinda hope golganneth gets more lore

#

Like if we need specifically him for something after the other titans die or w/e

#

I feel he could have a very interesting "I know we don't know eachother but check this out" conversation

sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

I hope it's not Freya if Elune is involved and Azeroth is kinda awake.

sullen dawn
#

I don't think him killing a keeper would have much shock

deep pawn
#

Sorry, I meant Eonar

#

Look, you meet one nature lady, you've met them all.

sullen dawn
#

Oh ya I doubt she dies, at least at the start

#

She's in the top 4 important ones with amanthul, sarg, and norg

pulsar minnow
#

She’s also the only one we know of with motives outside of her specified corner of the cosmology

#

Of the ones we have it’s gonna be Sargeras, Eonar, and Aggramar at least siding with us

#

Aggramar is too noble, Eonar loves Elune, and Sargeras is just too cool not to

sullen dawn
#

He wont forgive sargeras

#

It'll be Eonar, Sargeras, Khazgeroth (feels pity/sympathy for the races he created) on our side. Possibly Amitus if the canonise her

#

One could represent each renown track

#

Amanthul, Norgannon, Galgonneth, and Aggremar as hostile ones. Gal gets killed by Iridikron

pulsar minnow
#

Also he created the orcs

sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
#

Seeing his creations would be the thing to turn him to our side

sullen dawn
#

They hate each other now

sullen dawn
glass flicker
#

Still wanna know what's up with An'she.

#

Out of all the cosmic lads and ladies, he has the least amount of lore.

#

My headcanon is that An'she and Elune belong to their own pantheon, something more solar and lunar, and the Constellar are their creation.

warm topaz
#

really good month

#

imo

deep pawn
#

not my favorite month but that's fine after last month

lyric heart
#

I can’t wait for April fools patch notes

sullen dawn
glass flicker
#

I hoped they would add a stop sign 2H axe with an Undermine aesthetic.

#

I want to bash people in the face with a stop sign.

lyric heart
#

They do have that traffic light staff. The axe would be fun.

deep pawn
sullen dawn
#

It was just butterfly crap

deep pawn
#

Exactly

clear apex
#

This might be the second month out of the like 2c years i didn't do anything with the travel log

#

Butterflies are fine but no 2h sword upset me

#

And still no 2h sword for April

warm topaz
#

there are more tracks, but they are reused from BFA and WOTLK

deep pawn
clear apex
#

Not that i ever saw previewed. I want on theme, not just some random other

deep pawn
#

I meant maybe for next month

#

the trowel is an axe at least.

sleek solar
#

Can't wait for these!!

image.png
glass flicker
#

It bothers me that they look this good.

#

Put on a white cloak on that leather set, that's your WoW Moon Knight.

deep pawn
#

holy cow, a primal drake in SoD?

uncut vault
#

They’re used by all the members of the new faction, and have a big lore relevance for how hallowfall is changing post-campaign

glass fulcrum
#

I really like these sets but what keeps coming to mind is shadowlands lmao

#

the colors i mean

21474.png
sullen dawn
tropic trail
#

I liked it 😂

glass fulcrum
#

shadowlands brought us the great vault at least

lone mantle
#

Yes. dracthyr_comfy_sip

glass flicker
#

It had the potential to be the biggest expansion.

#

Ended up the greatest letdown we've had. So far.

tropic trail
#

Yea the beginning was epic

#

I want more zereths

lyric heart
#

The logos for most expansions were great

#

I kind of wish I could work on their design team, but it would require a move to California

glass flicker
#

At this point, if they said they sacrificed Shadowlands to make player housing, I wouldn't even mind the expansion anymore.

lyric heart
#

You must offer the Jailer to blizzard devs as a sacrifice so they can make player housing

glass flicker
#

Alright, but hear me out on this one.

#

Kill the Jailer. Destroy the Jailer. Dropkick the Jailer off of Oribos. Judo throw the Jailer into a woodchipper. Left hook the hole in the Jailer's chest. Stir fry the Jailer in a wok.

#

This would be the good timeline.

lyric heart
#

I would not eat stir fried jailer

glass flicker
#

You don't have to.

#

Twist the Jailer's nipples until he cries.

sullen dawn
#

Pvp was well balanced

#

I enjoyed the maw and torghast

lyric heart
sullen dawn
#

But the lore sucked (more than that it damaged the franchise)

#

And the patch cadence was awful

#

I didnt like most of the zones either

lyric heart
#

I missed most of shadowlands.

glass flicker
#

You've done yourself a favor.

sullen dawn
#

There was one raid boss in shadowlands that I realllllly loved though

glass flicker
#

I only enjoyed Korthia because it gave me an easy cosmetics grind.

sullen dawn
#

Painsmith

glass flicker
#

Daily quests, each rewarding one cosmetic item per covenant? Say less.

sullen dawn
#

So I actually enjoyed it a lot lmao

glass flicker
#

Yeah, Korthia might have sucked, but I enjoyed having cosmetic items from dailies.

#

It gave me an incentive to actually, you know, DO THEM.

sullen dawn
#

The artefact collection thing had the only interesting SL lore too, was much more "ancient"

#

In korthia, the collection of those relics that gradually filled up the cave

lone mantle
glass flicker
#

Yup, I know what you mean. I think my favorite is the shadow-cutting sword.

#

It uses the model of Turalyon's sword though, funnily enough

sullen dawn
glass fulcrum
lone mantle
#

It has since become my go-to pickup line on dates.

glass fulcrum
#

Oh, looks like it got changed.

#

This is the wowhead picture on wowhead

1029474.png
#

but this is on a different wow wiki

latest.png
#

looks like it must've been changed at some point

glass flicker
#

Yup!

#

That's Turalyon's sword, down to the broken blade replaced by a beam of light.

sullen dawn
lone mantle
#

Yes.

sullen dawn
#

Who does a constellar even date?

#

:p

glass flicker
#

Their little starling. 😉

lone mantle
tropic trail
glass flicker
#

I ship this.

#

Still, it annoys me that this is WoW nowadays.

#

We need more villains that are disconnected from each other in a single expansion.

deep pawn
#

hmm, they're finalizing the s3 dungeon pool soon

#

Makes sense since we're starting testing for that in about 10-12 weeks

sullen dawn
#

Seat of the Triumverate for sure

glass flicker
#

I hope they remake Shadowfang Keep sometime. peepoCute

#

It was the first dungeon I did when I started the game. Always brings back fun memories. I thought all dungeons would have optional bosses and random chests.

#

THAT'S the dungeon experience I want. Not ten thousand swirlies and seventeen interruptibles on every trash pull.

deep pawn
#

people are voting for op trinkets

#

😦

glass flicker
#

:(

upper pasture
glass flicker
#

We should send Blizzard some ideas to make dungeons better. Spawn random loot chests that you could use Delve keys for, so that you can still get higher tier loot even after outgrowing delves, optional bosses that give extra time if beaten, etc.

#

How cool would it be if you could gain two extra minutes of time for killing a rare in the dungeon in like thirty seconds?

ember blaze
sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

I think it's colored by it's era

#

it was harder than Maw of Souls, it was always gonna be hated

zealous sedge
#

I feel like the voting for favorite TWW dungeons for season 3 M+ is a clear indication there will be no season 4.

deep pawn
#

the roadmap alone proved that

sleek solar
glass fulcrum
#

It’s now like 30-40% smaller for no reason :(

#

I used it for a long time on one of my characters and logged in one day to see it way smaller

It used to be larger than Armageddon, now it’s smaller than some 2h swords from TWW

sleek solar
#

Yeah it was such a nice sword

#

It was a.... GREAT sword!

harsh mason
sullen dawn
harsh mason
#

But, if they change the location of the enemies and their abilities, it will probably be ok.

sullen dawn
#

Which will be half of them. Other 4 will be older dungeons, picked by blizz and I think SotT will be one of those

deep pawn
#

11.2 looks to be the climax of the Ethereals and Locus Walker's interactions with Alleria. So Seat should be next season.

#

Midnight seems to be focused on the Elves and Void directly

sullen dawn
#

Yep exactly what ive been saying

#

The prepatch was focused on this storyline, it makes total sense to resolve it in 11.2

#

Alleria will obviously play a big role in midnight, but as far as locus walker and the ethereals, I think this next patch their big spotlight

lyric heart
#

I hope alleria turns dark

clear apex
#

Would be kind of cool but i feel we had that sort of thing too recent with anduin getting kidnapped in SL.
And we've seen a few times of Alleria being tempted

deep pawn
#

I still pray we stay on Azeroth and underground. I have 0 interest in doing a worse version of Argus.

warm topaz
#

do you think Midnight will be full Azeroth if 11.2 is K'aresh?

deep pawn
#

Doubt it, there's no way we don't enter the void.

ember blaze
#

PLAYABLE ETHEREALS

uncut vault
#

technically Shadowlands was, but Zereth Mortis is such a higher concept zone than the rest of them

#

everything else from Legion onwards has had the patch zones take us away from the core xpac zones for variety

glass flicker
#

I personally wouldn't mind if we had more disconnect between main villains in a single expansion. Have more villains rise to the occasion when they see something's happening in the world.

#

They don't need to interact with one another, have any story ties, or mentions. Like Helya in Legion. She didn't have any ties to the Legion overall, and was just setting up Shadowlands content.

deep pawn
#

DF was entirely enclosed in the Dragon Isles.

uncut vault
#

...The Emerald Dream? haha

deep pawn
#

We went to the dream that was the reflection of part of the isles and most of what we visited moved there.

#

Outside of reused zones I'd also argue BfA absolutely confined itself to being the islands/ocean expansion haha.

#

The part of the Emerald Dream we visited is more connected to the Dragon Isles that Undermine is to Khaz Algar.

glass flicker
#

Despite the Emerald Dream, we fought Fyrakk. You know, one of the Primals? The enemies set up by Raszageth?

#

I'm talking about having villains that are completely disconnected from the current story. C'thun in vanilla, ogre boi in TBC, Archavon in Wrath, etc.

sullen dawn
glass flicker
#

Isn't that a little boring?

sullen dawn
#

Expansions now have only 2 main patches and they want them to be much more focused especially during the world soul saga

sullen dawn
harsh mason
#

The exception is BfA, so there are 4 plot acts

#

There has always been a 3 raid tier

sullen dawn
#

Legion had 4 main raids also

harsh mason
#

And 2 local raids

sullen dawn
#

Is 4

#

And there were 4 acts

#

Levelling campaign, post campaign/launch surumar, tomb, and antorus

#

Bfa also had 4

harsh mason
#

ED was a local raid. The main raids are tier

sullen dawn
#

As did wotlk

#

Wtf is a local raid

harsh mason
#

Guldan was the main antagonist of the first act, KJ was the main antagonist of the second

sullen dawn
#

Man thats just your perspective, not blizzards

harsh mason
sullen dawn
#

Arbitrary distinction

#

You cma say undermine raid is unrelated to main plot if EN is

harsh mason
sullen dawn
#

Nope

#

And if its true, then we still have one less now. Since undermine wasnt "main plot"

#

The entire conversation was seeded by unholy saykng they wanted more boss/arc diversity, and I said theyre mlving away from that just to 2 main patches now. In the past they has 1 extra (on average) so there was more room for that. If you arbitrarily decide the first raid of each expansion didnt count before, then thjngs like undermine or aberrus dont count either

harsh mason
#

Each Exp (with the exception of a few) has 3 main plot acts and 3 main antagonists. This is easy to understand if you just think about it when you play, and not count the raids.

sullen dawn
#

No

#

Exception of a few = more than half of them

#

This is only true of shadowlands and wod, both cut short

harsh mason
#

So if we were living in 2012, then 10.1 or 11.1 would actually be 10.2 and 11.2.

sullen dawn
#

Are you really saying undermine counts more than naxxramas as main story

#

Nah

#

You're recognising patterns that dont exist

#

Like xavius and EN counts just as much as ansurek raid

#

They both represent the cumulation of one of the zones stories

harsh mason
#

That's why Blizzard was told during the TWW announcement that it would be a STANDARD expansion in terms of content: 3 major patches-3 storyline acts

sullen dawn
#

And if you say they dont count, and legion had 3 arcs, then tww has 2

sullen dawn
#

So when we get an amani troll raid in midnight that'll be a "local raid" too by your logic, and so itll only have 2 acts

warm topaz
#

they really should add "questie" to the base game on classic

#

is stupid to need an addon to play the game properly

#

i should not be teaching a new player how to install questie bc otherwise he won't be able to play the game

sullen dawn
#

We did it im 2005 without

clear apex
#

I'm inclined to agree with Toby
You're meant to explore

#

Read the quest log

upper pasture
#

yeah, classic WoW was a whole different beast to current wow

warm topaz
#

even SoD?

glass flicker
#

Quest markers ruined the fun of exploration, change my mind.

deep pawn
#

Blizzard's opinions on what was a "real raid" or not has changed with expansions. Emerald Nightmare was part of the intro raids along with Mogushan Vaults and Highmaul, but Uldiir absolutely fits that mold too but because BfA dropped tier it's now counted as a full tier.

#

Blizzard basically doesn't want to admit WoD was just two tiers so they now treat Highmaul as a full raid

warm topaz
deep pawn
#

Amazingly, WoD lost the title of expansion with fewest raid bosses to DF

warm topaz
#

find the mob to kill, the zone to go, the item to click on a random chair in a random house

upper pasture
warm topaz
#

i feel like that could be so frustating for so many players

upper pasture
#

not blast through the whole thing to raid. there's no seasonal content it just questing then a few raids. you're supposed to enjoy the slow grind to the end

warm topaz
#

it's okay to read the quests and find where you need to go but many quests are not 100% clear

upper pasture
#

that's why when people ask "first time player, what should i choose. retail or classic" people usually respond with retail

warm topaz
#

he asked me that and i told him retail yeah, i feel like on retail is so much easier to understand what the game is asking you to do

#

objectives, quests, items etc..

#

probably questie is too much, but idk, something to make it a bit easier/clear to new players

clear apex
#

Classic wasn't meant for brand new wow players

#

It was for people who either: played wow a long time
Play wow but never experienced older wow

#

It wasn't about the race to the end to raid asap

warm topaz
#

i agree, i mean im not saying that they should make leveling on classic as it is on retail or anything close

#

but make some QoL changes that make the journey of leveling smoother

#

not faster but less frustating if you are a brand new player

clear apex
#

I think adding an option to have quest markers might be OK. But really only that, not showing the location of where to find the mob or items really

upper pasture
#

tbf you have that option, just download addons

clear apex
#

Plus there's usually so many people doing those quests you can find them

clear apex
little hound
thin warren
#

I just saw the endcinematic of Undermined, I wonder where that ||ethereal|| is

#

Big swirly vortex

upper pasture
#

it's their homeworld of K'aresh

lone mantle
lyric heart
#

Are we supposed to go there in nightfall or the patch after that?

#

Or have they said

upper pasture
#

haven't said all we have is that teaser. it would be a safe bet since we are still trying to get the dark heart into safer hands we will likely have to go there and reclaim it from the ethereals and stop it from getting back to Xal

tropic trail
upper pasture
#

we don't know the full extent to what the dark heart actually does. the all energy it has stored is speculated to be able to be released and "restore" stuff. however just looking at some ethereal lore they were wash in arcane energy to become their current form then some of them sought out void energies to become void versions of ethereals so maybe this is a rogue faction of ethereals trying to bathe whats left of their planet in void in some hopes that it will make it better. ultimately we don't know

lone mantle
ember blaze
harsh mason
#

Xal first absorbed the energy from Dalaran inside the Heart, and then started the war in Kazalgar with only one goal: to obtain sources for the Dark Heart.

tropic trail
#

So void doesn’t destroy it just gives you impression that something is destroyed. Interesting 👀

thin warren
#

It also has the energy of the protodragon

tropic trail
#

😂

austere gazelle
glass flicker
#

But why would Xal'atath be against the Void Lords?

#

No. She is gathering power inside the Dark Heart so she can create a vessel for a Void Lord to enter Reality.

lyric heart
#

But what if she is a void lord

glass flicker
#

It's unlikely, knowing that she was sealed inside a dagger. A Void Lord has way too much power for that.

#

They're basically Old Gods x100.

harsh mason
lyric heart
#

I think so too

glass flicker
#

It could be true, but again, why would she not be extra diligent with her allies?

lyric heart
#

I know she goes by the harbinger, but she’s not acting like she’s doing this for somebody. To me it seems like something happened to her specifically

glass flicker
#

If she's all on her own, without a benefactor, she should be extra careful.

#

It makes her look incompetent and I can't take her seriously if she's on her own.

lyric heart
#

I don’t think that’s true. I think it shows that she’s not infallible

#

She’s smart and clever but not perfect. I like it.

glass flicker
#

"I've outlived countless civilizations"
Oh, so you don't make rookie mistakes such as letting someone else handle your McGuffin for a prolonged period of time, without regular check-ups?

lyric heart
#

I don’t think we have the full story there

#

Besides, maybe she has more irons in the fire to tend to

glass flicker
#

If she can take time out of her day to screw with people in mythic+, she sure as hell has time to check on Gallywix, or at least have him send a progress report when he's done fixing the Dark Heart.

#

"But to what address would he send mail to?"

#

Like that's a hurdle.

lyric heart
#

And she could’ve been doing regular checkups. We were only shown two, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t being diligent. I’ve checked in on projects before, got busy with something else, and then found out the project got messed up

glass flicker
#

I like the idea of a villain taking a loss, but not when their portrayal is supposed to be a 5D Chess master.

lyric heart
#

5D chess masters can mess up too. All it takes is your mind straying for one second.

glass flicker
#

What did the goblins even fix the Dark Heart with? Duct tape and prayers?

lyric heart
#

That is something I’ve wondered about

glass flicker
#

I fail to understand why Xal'atath couldn't fix it herself.

lyric heart
#

Maybe there was a good reason.

#

My thing with all of this is we’re not getting the full story

glass flicker
#

I'm just annoyed that Xal'atath is supposed to be this ultra smart strategist and plotter, but you could find such obvious flaws in her plans, like she's Sylvanas.

#

Maybe Blizzard will subvert it all, have it that Xal'atath planned the Ethereals to grab the Dark Heart from the start so she can learn where K'aresh is in space and absorb it. Who knows?

lyric heart
#

That is something that worries me

#

Blizzard got it so right up until gallywix. Now I’m worried she’s just going to become another mediocre villain

#

I still believe there’s something else happening, but I am apprehensive

glass flicker
#

I liked this patch, too. Everything except Xal'atath.

#

She was just missus angry face 'cause bandage man stole her toy.

lyric heart
#

I think we’re being misled

#

That’s my theory.

glass flicker
#

You want Xal'atath to be believable as a villain? Have her execute someone on the spot to show Gallywix how dead he is for his mistake.

harsh mason
glass flicker
#

Hell, maybe that's how Renzik could have died.

harsh mason
#

That's why Khadgar survived when his Heart swallowed him up. But he tells us all this himself.

glass flicker
#

Yeah, Khadgar directly says he turned himself into pure mana and allowed himself to be absorbed.

#

Shame Atiesh broke, though.

harsh mason
#

In theory, this is how Xal can be defeated.

#

Knock it out of the body and imprison it in the Heart

lyric heart
#

I don’t want to defeat her

#

I want her to win

#

And not just because I have a huge crush on her

glass flicker
#

I want Xal'atath to show us how smart she is. Give her a chance to be the ultra smart villain everyone says she is.

lyric heart
#

I think she will

#

Everyone has bad days. Blizzard has to know they need to stick this landing

harsh mason
#

Well, she's staying until TLT anyway, so it won't happen soon.

glass flicker
#

All she does is be arrogant, angry, or taunt players in mythic+. It ain't exactly a good track record this expansion. Though I do like how active she is.

#

We didn't have a villain harass us in MSQ since the Lich King.

lyric heart
#

As someone who can be a hothead and occasionally arrogant, I like her

#

As a woman who can be a hothead*

#

And I love that she hates everyone

glass flicker
#

Hey, relatability is cause for attraction in any medium, I respect it.

#

I just don't have to like her scheme. floof_shrug

harsh mason
lyric heart
lyric heart
#

What’s wild about Xal’atath is she basically helped create some of the biggest races is Azeroth

#

According to the lore with Xando

harsh mason
#

So I think she's smart, but she doesn't know much about mortals and how they act. She finds fault with mortals, as they believe that they can use her power for free (this was the case with every one of her "champions", even with the priest-player). That is, she thinks the same way about all mortals in her experience. But the point is that the behavior of mortals does not fit into patterns.

glass flicker
#

I think Xal'atath was simply N'zoth's right hand lady from the start. N'zoth was the weakest Old God, after all, but that's not what made him terrifying. It was his preparedness and foresight. Excluding BfA's pitiful portrayal, N'zoth was supposed to be the most terrifying of them all.

#

And Xal'atath being his underling fits.

harsh mason
lyric heart
#

One theory I’ve heard and that I like is she’s an ascended mortal

lyric heart
#

When she got the player killed, her voice lines were patronizing at best

#

She knew and knows exactly what she’s doing.

glass flicker
#

It's funny, I still think she should call Shadow Priest players by a cute nickname, or something.

#

"My little priestling" comes to mind.

#

Too many people would respec just for that.

lyric heart
#

That’s partially why I want my void elf shadow priest to be my main in midnight

#

Well, mostly

glass flicker
#

When should we expect to see your attempt at a Xal'atath cosplay transmog, then?

#

Captioned: "cosplaying my evil gf but she doesn't know."

lyric heart
#

When we get her actual armor in the trading post or in game

glass flicker
#

Well, that's unlikely.

lyric heart
#

We got sylvanas’ armor. It just took years.

#

If we don’t get it, I probably won’t. I still like being my own character, and I don’t want to look like someone who’s just imitating Xal’atath

#

Would I like to cosplay as her IRL? Yes

#

Will I? Probably not. That would take time and resources I don’t have.

#

But I will be asking for similar hair next week. My hair is already long with long layers, so it’s not that big of a stretch.

sullen dawn
#

You can get her armour in diablo 4

lyric heart
#

And not the game she’s actually in????

sullen dawn
#

Black blade skin is good tho

lyric heart
#

It doesn’t. I feel like they missed the parts that make it cool

sullen dawn
#

Wait till you see the xavius one lmao

#

Fat xavius

lyric heart
#

That one is terrible. The varian one is decent

sullen dawn
#

Bwomsamdi one is great

lyric heart
#

That is pretty cool

rain cave
#

I'm getting so sick of doronsmovies actually

#

I feel like his content has just gotten so much worse over the past few years to the point where I think it's almost toxic now :/

glass fulcrum
#

ok

rain cave
#

it's all just corny clickbait with AI generated thumbails and using things that he's either just stating something without adding, or extremely far reaching speculation with no backup evidence presented as fact

ember blaze
#

same video just restating thing and the title saying confirmed x

lyric heart
#

I was reading through titles of his videos, and all of them sound so sure. But all of this is still largely a mystery.

sullen dawn
tropic trail
lyric heart
#

Probably a good thing. There are much better channels.

glass flicker
#

These days, I refer to him as MoronsMovies for how his content devolved over time.

#

Rude? Sure. Uncalled for? Absolutely. Accurate? Definitely.

sullen dawn
#

Except it is called for :p

lyric heart
#

If you make content like that, yeah

pulsar minnow
lyric heart
#

Anyone who adds an exclamation point in every video title is sus to me

glass flicker
#

At least he doesn't add red circles, arrows, Victory Royale logos, and anime girls with their tongues out in every thumbnail.

#

(He does add the arrows and it's annoying.)

lyric heart
#

I don’t mind arrows and circles when it makes sense, but he’s overdoing it

glass flicker
#

When every other thumbnail has an arrow pointing at something or there's a red circle with something on the character's design that MUST MEAN IT'S IMPORTANT.

#

Yeah, he's overdoing it.

#

He didn't point out Turalyon has a bracelet over his armor, but he points out an Ethereal's crown? C'mon.

#

It's on his sword hand. Not a mirrored thing.

lyric heart
#

Huh. I never noticed that.

#

I wonder if it’s for alleria

glass flicker
#

It should be? They either have matching bracelets, or Turalyon has one for good luck.

#

You can even see it when he's seated.

#

Though, Mr. Lyon, get your foot away from inside the throne.

#

Dummy.

lyric heart
#

Alleria’s new model doesn’t show a bracelet, but that definitely makes sense

glass flicker
#

I hope Turalyon wears his bracelet even when he takes the armor off.

#

It's such a cute detail.

lyric heart
#

Maybe it’s loose enough to stay on his arm when he takes a glove off

glass flicker
#

Yeah, but like, he might remove it before the glove and put it on his hand.

lyric heart
#

That seems like too much work

glass flicker
#

Imagine if it's a Chekhov's Bracelet. We see it, we know it's from Alleria, but it doesn't get importance until it's revealed that OH NO, it's full of Windrunner magic and it just saved his life by conjuring up a storm to swallow a dude!

lyric heart
#

I could see it being empowered by Alleria somehow

glass flicker
#

Probably not by Void.

lyric heart
#

Could be, though. It’s purple.

glass flicker
#

The Windrunner sisters all have some magic abilities, so it may be that.

#

It has red and blue, and also green gems.

#

The cloth part is purple.

lyric heart
#

And it’s a different shade of purple than void purple

#

Void purple skews more toward blue

glass flicker
#

It's just cloth. May be from Alleria's old cape, actually.

lyric heart
#

That would be a cool nod to her old character model

glass flicker
#

Look at her cape, then the bracelet. It's almost the same shade.

lyric heart
#

Maybe we’ll find out soon

glass flicker
#

It's funny, I actually prefer her old model, but I like the scarf she has on the new one.

#

We need asymmetrical cloaks/scarves like that.

rain cave
glass flicker
#

Big agree.

rain cave
#

Let me see him in an apron making breakfast for alleria

glass flicker
#

Let me see him in a Hawaiian shirt and cargo shorts. Socks and sandals.

#

Full dad mode.

rain cave
#

With enough time, I'm sure hearthstone will satisfy that

rain cave
glass flicker
#

If she's not a raid boss, she probably won't.

rain cave
#

Her current look reflects her lone ranger theme, being alone and alien in her mission

#

But that arc is finishing

#

I hope they atleast give her the decorations

#

Like the feathers

lyric heart
#

I find it very emo

glass flicker
#

If she gets a new model, I hope they keep design elements from this look, like the asymmetrical scarf and hair, but give her the green and gold armor back.

pulsar minnow
#

I kinda prefer her new design mainly because she looks so different from just generic elf ranger now

rain cave
#

She was the only high elf who still had the primal ranger look

#

Windrunner ain't just a name I'm pretty sure old high elf society had what was basically shamans of the forest

#

Or druidic culture

#

And that was lost as they became more arcane and eventually became belfs

glass flicker
#

Vereesa better get a new model in Midnight, too.

rain cave
#

I pray

glass flicker
#

She's the most tired of the Windrunner trio.

#

Sylvanas and Alleria got the most love. She got two half-elf kids and a dead husband. She deserves better.

rain cave
#

She's the one doing paper work every expansion when important things are happening

rain cave
glass flicker
#

That's true.

rain cave
#

And deal with dalaran drama over the years

#

Like the sunreavers in mop

lyric heart
#

She doesn’t have to deal with dalaran drama now 😬

rain cave
#

Just the fallout I suppose!

glass flicker
#

Dalaran is Dala-gone

pulsar minnow
rain cave
#

Fall-out the sky

pulsar minnow
#

Nightmare fuel

image0.jpg
rain cave
glass flicker
#

Uggo

pulsar minnow
#

Though come to think of it they should be adults by now

glass flicker
#

??

#

They were like eight in the book.

pulsar minnow
#

THEYRE 8???

glass flicker
#

How much time do you think has passed since? They're roughly Dagran's age.

pulsar minnow
#

Okay maybe it’s the nightmare fuel faces that made me think they were at least teens

glass flicker
#

And Dagran is so young he doesn't even have stubble. AS A DWARF.

rain cave
#

Reminds me of this

tumblr_or9yl0L0nl1uqcdhp_r3_og_540.jpg
glass flicker
#

PFFT.

pulsar minnow
#

For the good of humanity let’s just retcon her kids and say they’re void lords in disguise thx

glass flicker
#

Nah.

lyric heart
#

How old is Dagran??????

pulsar minnow
#

Final boss of the world soul saga is vereesas sons

lyric heart
#

Please don’t say he’s 8

glass flicker
#

Like, late teens?

#

He was an infant in MoP/Cata.

pulsar minnow
#

Dagran is 15

lyric heart
#

15????? He seems so much older.

#

Like, my age. 30s. Maybe late 20s

glass flicker
#

He's a beardless dwarf, of course he's young. Not even stubble on the boy.

pulsar minnow
#

He’s a dwarf so maybe they just age differently

lyric heart
#

But his first reaction to a skardyn is “oooh look, it’s transforming. Let me get closer.” So maybe he is young.

#

Zero self-preservation

glass flicker
#

Fun fact, Anduin was 10 during Vanilla.

#

15-ish in MoP.

lyric heart
#

He was an ugly kid

#

Grew up to be a hot man, though

glass flicker
#

You heard that right. Anduin was 15 when Garrosh crushed him with a 10 tons bell.

#

And, Anduin should be like 26-ish now.

lyric heart
#

He looks his age

#

Maybe a little older because of the trauma

#

I want to see anduin get some peace one day

glass flicker
#

Yeah.

pulsar minnow
#

I really wonder if they’re going to sideline Anduin next expansion to focus more on the elves

lyric heart
#

I hope not. He just got back

glass flicker
#

I wonder if Lady Liadrin's daughter being evil will be fleshed out in Midnight.

#

I forget her name. Something with an S.

#

Alright, I know I sound crazy, but she's a Children's Week companion, and someone says she will be evil. Then Lady Liadrin Adopts her.

#

So, my headcanon says she struggles with feelings of inadequacy as Liadrin's squire, and Xal'atath uses that. Boom, Shadow Paladin.

lyric heart
#

I’m here for shadow paladin

deep pawn
rain cave
#

aye

deep pawn
#

So if there was some shaman magic it was back in the night elf days.

rain cave
#

still, it's a part of high elf culture that's been pretty lost

#

like the lingering influence of druidism and elune on their culture

#

and i hope they explore it in midnight

#

give us those feathery high elf accessories and tattoos

uncut vault
#

I made a little narcissus edit a while back as a "what-if" for them

FwmkypXaMAAZ-zd.png
warm topaz
#

i love those shoulders

rain cave
lavish raptor
#

hmmm lets see if timewarped item levels are fixed in ptr

#

ok they're still broken

image.png
deep pawn
#

I think this is the least hype I've seen for a .5 patch in a long time.

glass flicker
#

To be fair, it does have some reused content and mostly recolors.

deep pawn
#

Midnight and housing better be worth it

upper pasture
#

I mean most of the excitement I’ve seen for it is for the corruption effect being back

glass flicker
#

Ew.

upper pasture
#

I’m interested in the dastardly duos thing too

glass flicker
#

Corruptions = bad.

#

Didn't like them in BfA, I won't like them now.

upper pasture
#

I mean, that’s like your opinion

glass flicker
#

And my opinion is objectively correct because it's MY OPINION.

#

I make the rules. (Sadly I don't.)

deep pawn
#

They're being tuned very weak and turned off at s3

#

So they're less exciting than they could be

glass flicker
#

They better be.

upper pasture
#

Yes but you said it as a fact. It’s not simply “corruption = bad” it’s “ I didn’t like corruptions” and that’s okay

deep pawn
#

I'll be happy just to see twilight dev again, but I wish it was more than 1-2%

upper pasture
#

Yup they are literally just for the rest of S2

deep pawn
#

Like if it's gonna be for 10 weeks or so, let them be 5-10%

glass flicker
#

I don't like RNG mechanics like that, it's why I stuck through thick and thin with Colossus even when Slayer was better in every regard. Begging Twilight Devastation to proc was just pure pain.

deep pawn
#

Cause if I remember, the patch doesn't even launch with visions active

glass flicker
#

"Yeah sure I'll do this M+ pull without doing 70% of my damage."

deep pawn
#

I just enjoyed seeing a pack get deleted occasionally

glass flicker
#

Corruptions were only fun when they did proc. If you were on a bad luck streak, though? Have fun being at the bottom of the damage meters, below even the healer. Why?

upper pasture
#

I mean, couldn’t you just apply that to all RNG? “WoW sure is fun, if you’re getting drops if you aren’t then it’s not as fun”

All in all RNG is lame, if proc rate is low or near absolute zero then don’t play that corruption

#

If enough people aren’t running it blizzard might tweak the numbers to make it more interesting of a choice

harsh mason
deep pawn
#

It'll be used cause it'll be a free 1% and people spend more gemming gear for less

harsh mason
#

People have probably already forgotten the fact that DPS Meter is a third-party program that shouldn't even be in the game.

glass flicker
#

Well, there would be a couple things. Ego damage, angry party, not enough damage for some DPS checks.

harsh mason
#

But this is just my reasoning that addons actually ruin the game

deep pawn
#

I'd live without meters and parsing

sullen dawn
pulsar minnow
#

i prefer to have meters. It has some toxic drawbacks sure, but its also like the main way to track if you're doing your rotation right and getting value out of your kit

upper pasture
#

The problem isn’t knowing your dps it’s when people are toxic about it.
Personally I like to see my dps/hps
I wish blizzard would just adopt squares stance on dps meters. They can be had but talking about them or using them to trash talk another player is a banable offense

thin warren
#

not much of story in the upcoming patch i think, arathi scenario's but that's just them defending against the old remnants of slain queen Ansurekh

glass fulcrum
upper pasture
#

There’s a healthy way of going about that but most of the times people tend to go the toxic route.

glass fulcrum
#

Right, I agree with punishing toxicity, never a bad reason to be punished

Just not a fan of no mentions period, like if I pop off and get a new best just to tell a friend I’m grouping with and that be against rules seems rough (some people could see this as toxic too)

Though I don’t play it so it might just flat out not work like that

upper pasture
#

I mean mentioning it to your friend doesn’t mean you’re gonna be reported unless of course your friend reports you.

glass fulcrum
#

Right I mean party chat though not dms

#

But I get it’s their game they can have it how they want

upper pasture
#

Using dps meters as a tool to teach and assess players is fine but if your using it as a tool to talk smack to players in content where it hardly matters then they might be the problems

I mean fair if you aren’t talking trash to another player then I hardly see why anyone would report you for “popping off” and showing it off unless of course they themselves are party poopers

#

But if there’s no rules against dps meters people who talk trash can never be punished

#

So I’d much rather only be able to share my meters with trusted people and or guild chat and never in a open group and hopefully remove some of the toxic people who use meters to shame people

deep pawn
lavish raptor
#

We have another major patch to go

deep pawn
#

Yeah, but the stuff they've added this expansion just feels light. The live development team that did in between patches felt like they had more tools in DF

upper pasture
#

It’s also important to remember that the next two expansions are a saga so they all tie together

lavish raptor
#

Ah yes, Big Dig

deep pawn
#

I mean the timeways and dream zone events could have been better, but they still felt new haha

pulsar minnow
#

Honestly I prefer them make more varied content or bring stuff back than another open world event that I just won’t do

deep pawn
#

The anniversary didn't stick around for obvious reasons and parts of 11.1.5 are time limited

#

So the mid patch content this time around just feels more ephemeral

lavish raptor
#

This upcoming patch doesn't seem any more bare boned than Primal Storms

#

Also next major patch has a new dungeon

deep pawn
#

We're getting two dungeons instead of one mega dungeon which I'm fine with

#

But it's hard to not compare to legion which added two dungeons and a mega dungeon

pulsar minnow
#

Legion also had 3 patches

#

And lasted way longer

deep pawn
#

So I am hoping Midnight has something big alongside housing that's taking up a lot of the design team.

#

Or 11.2 is huge

thin warren
#

no news yet about 11.2?

crude sigil
thin warren
#

didn't we knew earlier before? :p 😄

deep pawn
#

We have to get the 11.1.7 ptr first which will likely be end of this month or first week of May.

thin warren
#

i tought they maybe sometimes get some teasing by updating their roadmap

#

can't remember 😄 i just hoped

sullen dawn
#

Probably late may/early june

#

11.2 won't release until august

#

And 2.5 months before release it usually gets shown

thin warren
#

Ahah

pulsar minnow
#

So seeing as how our dungeons for s3 are gonna be priory, Dawnbreaker, arakara, floodgate, and the new one, i wonder what the last two will be

#

Seat of the triumvirate feels like a given

#

But I can’t really see what the last one will be

deep pawn
#

I think we'll see 4 legacy so Dawnbreaker may be out

pulsar minnow
#

Yeah but seeing as how they did 5 tww in season 2 I see no reason not to

#

Dawnbreaker was a great dungeon

deep pawn
#

Because there was 4 dungeons that hadn't been in the pool yet plus the new

#

It could go either way since the tww dungeons have all been seen now

#

They could bring back Shadowmoon Burial Grounds again

lavish raptor
#

they havent done pandaria dungeons since season 1 of DF

#

they should do siege but change how the 2nd boss works

#

though my gut feeling is that we will get Seat of the Triumvirate

deep pawn
#

We'll get shadow and ethereal themed stuff

#

Smbg, seat, maybe something TBC

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
#

I assume we'll get mana tombs too

pulsar minnow
#

If I’m gonna take a guess I’m going to say it’ll be the top 4+ new dungeon + seat of the triumvirate + Tazavesh and maybe shrine of storms

deep pawn
#

Both wings of Tazavesh would be too much unless Gallywix's broker deal is in play

#

I think they could make Mana Tombs work

#

Or whichever Tempest Keep dungeon is Ethereal heavy

pulsar minnow
#

Just one of Tazavesh I was thinking

#

Probably lower

#

Brokers are ethereal adjacent so it wouldn’t be out of place

upper pasture
#

Tazavesh is definitely on the short list of S3 dungeons

upper pasture
#

Halls of atonement was also in the survey too

deep pawn
#

We still don't know how Brokers and Ethereals are connected if at all.

#

Brokers are supposedly Shadowlands natives, not dead souls

lavish raptor
#

they stated a while ago they didnt want to rehaul any dungeons that are Too Old

upper pasture
#

Not that they didn’t want to just that “it has its challenges”

lavish raptor
#

you know what would be funny

#

Hour of Twilight

uncut vault
#

And then we got multiple Cata dungeons haha

lavish raptor
#

yeah that was confusing

#

actually they should make Ragefire Chasm m+, its technically a MOP dungeon

sullen dawn
#

Plus a "void lord"

sullen dawn
#

You can be ethereal and formed from any cosmic energy

#

Brokers are ethereals with a lower case e, even if not with a capital E

deep pawn
#

Ethereals as we know them are the natives of Karesh

#

They were transformed by the destruction of their world yes, but we don't know of others yet.

#

That'd be like saying anyone transformed by the void is a void elf.

sullen dawn
#

And its slightly different

#

"The Ethereals" isnt their actual race name, its how we refer to them but reallt its just a state of being i.e. not comprised of matter but rather energy

#

We know of void ethereals and arcane ethereals

deep pawn
#

Until we meet another being transformed that way they're Ethereals and then we'll call what we know now as like Kareshi or something

sullen dawn
#

And "soul/death magic" ethereals - their culture is just so far removed from the mortal realm we dont call them that

sullen dawn
#

Just comprised of energy

deep pawn
#

We usually don't call them Ethereals then.

lavish raptor
#

apparently the K'areshi used to have flesh

sullen dawn
#

Its not apparently

deep pawn
#

Elementals, ghosts, ascendants, but Ethereal as we use it only refers to the former people of Karesh

sullen dawn
#

Im sure we'll learn about their prior culture in 11.2

sullen dawn
#

Not from karesh

deep pawn
#

We've seen lots of Lightspawn already

#

They aren't called ethereals

sullen dawn
#

Light elementals yeh

deep pawn
#

Again, until they are introduced, all Ethereals we've met are the former people of Karesh

sullen dawn
#

Elementals are different to ethereals as they are more like animals

#

Sure theyre both made out of energy but its like the difference between a dog and a human

deep pawn
#

Elementals have conscious thoughts, intelligence, and more. Calling them dogs simply because they don't have a soul and go to the Shadowlands is extremely demeaning lol

sullen dawn
#

What dogs are awesome

#

Its not an insult :p

#

Dogs also have conscious thoughts

deep pawn
#

Look, it's entirely possible for other species to become energy beings and we have seen that with at the least elemental ascendants, but we so far have only called the people of Karesh Ethereals.

#

Other magic transformations are usually given their own names.

sullen dawn
#

And im just saying while they haven't expanded it tjis way yet, I do believe ethereals ks a broader term and will apply to energy beings (same style, different energy and/or origin) and this will likely include brokers

#

Its speculation I agree

#

Its just what I think

deep pawn
#

I think they'll be given a different name.

sullen dawn
#

I think thats dumb

deep pawn
#

Like Fae for example are literally death magic made solid.

#

Souls in the Shadowlands are literally just energy beings of anima and we don't call them Ethereals

#

Ethereals as a race are a specific group of survivors from Karesh

#

Why they have an identical middle eastern flavored culture as Brokers, we don't know. Brokers say they aren't connected and are Shadowlands natives

#

We could very well see some sort of Light ascendant later, but I'd put money on them just being called lightforged or light ascendants.

uncut vault
deep pawn
#

That's my point. While being turned into magic isn't unique, Ethereals are the only ones we know that call themselves that

#

So at that point you get to what do you call a race.

#

Like we call ourselves Humans even if there's other extinct species of the Homo genus.

#

Ethereals might be the first and most notable example of their kind and thus claim the name for themselves

pulsar minnow
#

they share a similar aesthetic

deep pawn
#

And naming scheme, and political culture.

#

Yes both are based off Arabic merchants, but still.

pulsar minnow
#

i mean im just talking on the subject of dungeon choice for s3

#

but i doubt they're related. and if they are i doubt we'll get it explained at all in the future

#

they're going to avoid SL like the plague

deep pawn
#

nah, they aren't.

#

We literally had Shadowlands throughout DF.

pulsar minnow
#

very minimally, but yes

#

but to go back and fully explore the story I doubt

#

We might touch on some things, primarily the First Ones

#

And I definitely think we might see the Primus and friends show their faces in TLT, but beyond that yeah idk

uncut vault
#

We also have a shadowlands dungeon right now lol

#

A rather hated one from back in the day, at that, that they’ve done extensive work to make less annoying

#

Tazavesh was pretty well-received by comparison, especially in SL season 4, so I don’t think they’ll have any reservations about bringing it back

worn crown
#

Oh, someone said Shadowlands? 😎 Please allow me to explain why I love SL covenants and lore in general

#

Don't worry, I won't do that now, heheh

#

I just wanted to say that I love the mention of Tazavesh (even if it is a joke) in the last side quest of the chain about the Gallagio

#

Thinking about the Brokers, I think Blizz may bring back Venari at some point, because as others pointed, there are just too many similarity about the Brokers and the Ethereals - and Venari is a well known character, I dare say

#

About SL chars, I also think Denathrius will show up eventually, probably after the current saga is over

glass fulcrum
#

Denathrius was great

#

In general SL was ok in its own lore, just terrible on anything it connected to

pulsar minnow
#

Shadowlands retconned stuff it really shouldn’t have and had no reason to and just completely failed to set up its villain

#

I will die on the sword that the Jailer could’ve been a fantastic character and had so many opportunities to become that character - but they just wasted his screen time completely and just genuinely gave him nothing. As hollow as his robot body

#

We still have no idea what his motivation was beyond that he got scared of something and just decided it was time to kill everyone

glass fulcrum
#

The seemingly scrapped line of the primus actually being the villain and setting up the jailer (some scrapped stuff heavily leans into this) so they could use the domination runes for their benefit was much more interesting than what ended up happening

pulsar minnow
#

My hope for the jailer was his conflict would essentially be an existential crisis: he witnesses and judges every soul and their entire lives nonstop while he never gets to live a life of his own, and he is essentially this sort of “Atlas” figure. He has to keep the shadowlands running simply because it is his “purpose.”

He’d want to seek out answers from the First Ones, only to find out they abandoned him and left nothing but Zereth Mortis behind. He’d be struck down by his siblings for trying to find the truth, and locked in the Maw out of fear of what the Primus saw in his future

#

Then blah blah blah isolation in the maw drives him insane and he decides that since the first ones abandoned him and created a flawed system reliant on his labor, he would tear it all down and create what he deemed a “fair” reality (but ultimately twisted by his insanity)

#

It’s at least better than being an emo robot Ben Franklin

sullen dawn
#

Denathrius destroyed dreadlords lore imo

glass flicker
#

Yeah but he's hot tho

glass fulcrum
#

I mean denathrius wasn’t the cause of that

glass flicker
#

Crimes forgiven.

glass fulcrum
#

The reason I didn’t get that entire thing was they could’ve just had something LIKE dreadlords who maybe even know dreadlords and it be fine

glass flicker
#

Honestly, I couldn't care less about the dreadlord lady joining Mal'ganis in Sepulcher.

#

I even forgot her name.

#

Why couldn't Mal'ganis alone be the big bad orchestrator of everything Nathrezim in our characters' lives?

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
deep pawn
#

Okay lol

lavish raptor
sullen dawn
autumn relic
lavish raptor
lavish raptor
#

uncultured....

deep pawn
#

Patch on the 22nd. So many people kept saying no way it's before May lol

#

It literally had Children's Week changes

upper pasture
#

Eh, that patch is so staggered tho

#

A whole month of nightfall and alt leveling before we get HV

#

Then another month before the duo event :/

#

i guess the only good news is i might have undermine finished before there's alot of other stuff to do

lavish raptor
#

I don't mind the minor updates. Id be fine with a minor patch with nothing but bug fixes but I know I'd be a minority.

silent urchin
#

I think people just forget april exists or something, it was always gonna be late april

thin warren
#

it sounds a bit like they are smearing it open because next one might take longer to release

#

i wonder if they will keep up the cycle troughout summervacation

deep pawn
#

Nah, I still fully expect 11.1.7 in June. Odds are it just doesn't have any combat catch up like Siren Isle

thin warren
#

prolly, but i don't know if .2 will release end of august

#

i ofcourse hope so!

deep pawn
#

August 12th for 11.2 unless something major happens remains my guess.

#

apparently this is the 4th patch in a row with exactly 7 week ptrs haha

#

which lines up with 8 week patch cycles.

thin warren
#

nice 😄

novel zodiac
#

did they said something about the dinars or is that gone?

deep pawn
#

not yet

#

last blue post was they wanted it in 11.1.5 but no info

#

Yeah, Ion interview.

image.png
#

So they'll just turn them on randomly I guess.

#

probably same day they unlock crests haha

lavish raptor
#

I think it's good they're spacing it out

#

So many people try to speedrun the entire patch in one week

thin warren
#

true, I agree with that

#

so i'm not against the spacing, it's nice to have a new thing to do each few weeks

#

instead of not knowing where to start first and feeling a certain urge to do it all together

silent urchin
#

I'm guessing dinars/unlocked crests are gonna come with visions

upper pasture
#

my only issue with it being so spaced out is it likely means the next patch is gonna be further behind. 3 months of stuff is gonna mean the next patch is "delayed" even if by a few week

#

another issue is if one thing doesn't interest someone they are expected to sit on their hands for a month or two to do something they are interested in?

thin warren
#

You have a point

deep pawn
#

I honestly don't believe the next patch will be delayed.

#

Like 11.1.7 comes out in Spring

#

It has to be early June at the latest.

upper pasture
#

so they are gonna release another patch along side the duos event?

deep pawn
#

must be

upper pasture
#

why wouldn't they just wait to annouce that stuff with that patch then?

deep pawn
#

cause it starts before the patch

#

June 17th is my guess for 11.1.7.

upper pasture
#

but they could just delay that stuff to be in that patch to make it make more sense

deep pawn
#

And that's basically the latest it can be for a spring release lol

#

You also have 6 weeks of Turbulent Timeways coming in the next patch too, I think things are just gonna overlap

upper pasture
#

content overlapping is fine content dripfeeding however isn't

#

this is the first time in a long time i've felt like we're gonna be drip fed content for a few months

deep pawn
#

Roadmap for a reminder

#

they don't have a ton of room to deviate from the 8 week schedule.

upper pasture
#

disclaimer for reminder

sullen dawn
#

Feb for midnight

deep pawn
#

indeed, but they have to inlcude that for legal reasons

#

they were ahead of their schedule last time if anything

sullen dawn
#

Yeh, plus it usually means +/- 2 weeks either way, nothing mlre drastic than that