#beta-ptr-spoilers

1 messages · Page 123 of 1

rain cave
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I imagine everything in the rootlands would be hyperevolved

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like if you just take the idea of a wolf and push all of its features harder, bigger teeth, sharper claws, etc

deep pawn
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It could go either way, I just think Rootlands fits the theme more and pushes Orwenya as the next speaker more if it matters in Midnight and TLT.

pulsar minnow
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See as much as I personally want the rootlands now, I just don't think it's going to be. I think it's going to be saved for the Last Titan in order to flesh out Eonar and potentially Elune's story

deep pawn
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I'm fine with part of the raid on Karesh, but it can't be the zone.

rain cave
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we're not getting a megadungeon are we?

pulsar minnow
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We're getting a dungeon

rain cave
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they could do a karesh dungeon ig

pulsar minnow
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I feel like splitting the zone/dungeon between locations would be doing a disservice to both

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Unless they plan on doing a sort of 8.2, which doesn't look to be in the cards, it's gotta either be one or the other

sullen dawn
deep pawn
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They can, but it would absolutely fall flat to me and kinda ruin the expansion.

sullen dawn
rain cave
sullen dawn
rain cave
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the new dungeon isn't in undermine

pulsar minnow
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Well no but it's still related to Undermine's story heavily, and is at least really close to the area

sullen dawn
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Kyle was suggesting karesh as a raid component, which would mean no zone

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Which would be the worst of both worlds imo

deep pawn
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I'm fine with going somewhere for the last boss

pulsar minnow
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If we get K'aresh as a raid, and the rootlands as a zone its going to be weird. First we're going to have the problem of how the hell we get to the raid beyond just "oh a portal." And then the issue of how any story told in the rootlands actually leads us to just going to K'aresh

deep pawn
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It's what we did with the Tomb of Sargeras raid for example.

sullen dawn
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Karesh as a part of the raid only would suck so bad

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And be a massive disservice

deep pawn
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The entire raid was in the Tomb except for the fight against Kil'jaeden.

sullen dawn
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Yes but tht was a random spade ship, not one of the most hyped up locations in wow ever

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*space

deep pawn
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Last fight being on one of those pieces of rock with the shattered Karesh and void world soul as the backdrop, ooof, that's a scene.

pulsar minnow
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Thing with Kil'jaeden's fight is it just showed the planet, we didn't actually go there until the next patch

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We need to get the story from Underground -> Quel'Thalas

rain cave
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xal needs a new power source instead of darkheart

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could use sunwell

pulsar minnow
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We also need to get the story to "Oh shit, the void invasion is happening now" and we need something to kick that off

rain cave
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karesh comes latre

deep pawn
pulsar minnow
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we'd need to get the Dark Heart back from the ethereals to do that. On k'aresh.

deep pawn
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I still don't know which one the writers are gonna pick to have Sylvanas save in Midnight haha

deep pawn
rain cave
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"corrupted windrunner sister corrupts anduin and they do bad thing 2"

sullen dawn
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Probably Alleria she saves

deep pawn
rain cave
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sylvanas and alleria dying as sylvanas redeems alleria and brings her back is my prediction

sullen dawn
deep pawn
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We know the void has been predicting Alleria's fall for like a decade now, but it might be better to show the void fail with her, but still succeed with Anduin.

sullen dawn
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Hes basically mostly recovered now, at least as much as hell ever be

pulsar minnow
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im expecting Sylvanas in TLT

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if anything that is

sullen dawn
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Anduin wont be corrupted or broken again

deep pawn
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Sylvanas has to be involved with saving Quel'thalas, the place she died trying to defend before.

clear apex
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I think he's "healed" and likely won't be on the path of "dark" again

deep pawn
sullen dawn
clear apex
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The took the whole story of tww first stuff to explain that he was soul searching

rain cave
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I think anduin hasn't reached his "realizing the dark part of him isn't necesarily bad" part

pulsar minnow
clear apex
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He needed someone to chat with who got it and inspired him

rain cave
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they've teased him having void stuff before

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or shadow

clear apex
rain cave
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we need a disc priest lmao

sullen dawn
clear apex
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He knows he's not those bad parts but they are a part of him

deep pawn
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Faerin could die for example and that sets him back, etc, he's not out of the woods yet, relapses happen all the time with mental stuff. That's why Alleria and Anduin are both still set up for a fall at this point.

sullen dawn
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Alleria sure

clear apex
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Alleria i see going too far again

rain cave
deep pawn
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I personally think it's a better story if Alleria averts her void prophesied fate of killing her son and husband.

rain cave
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i feel xal's going to trick her again with some illusion

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revealing she actually shot turalyon

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and that's what breaks her

uncut vault
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that was never really anything prophecized, just one of infinite possibilities thrown at her to try and wear her down

rain cave
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even if it doesn't kill him outright

uncut vault
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the only prophecy regarding Turalyon and Arator is Turalyon dying in his son's arms

rain cave
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but could

pulsar minnow
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I definitely could see Turalyon dying in Midnight, could be what brings Anduin back to lead the Alliance into Northerend (fulfilling Velen's prophecy)

sullen dawn
uncut vault
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Different prophecy

sullen dawn
uncut vault
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Tiridan means the one from Velen's Cata short story

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where he's leading the armies of all of Azeroth

sullen dawn
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Ah yes

pulsar minnow
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in the "icy norths"

deep pawn
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that was just a possible timeline, not the one we're going down.

pulsar minnow
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it's possible but also the short story was written by metzen and I think he might be a little biased to it

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especially just based on Renilash being a thing now too

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which sounds a lot like this battle

deep pawn
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I still thought in SL that Anduin was gonna be released aged up after being a pawn of the Jailer to get to that prophecy lol.

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But they wanted Manduin more.

clear apex
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Oh trust, manduim was a good move murloc

pulsar minnow
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Anduin’s arc was fantastic. It really didn’t do all that much but just fixed pretty much everything wrong with his character in the eyes of players

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He’s still a priest who preaches love not war, but he’s just a badass priest now

deep pawn
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I just don't think he's fixed yet, the type of hurt he has isn't fixed in just a couple quests and stay a whiles, he's taken the first step, but he's not done.

rain cave
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who uses a sword

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either let priests use swords or give it to someone else smh

clear apex
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#totallynotapaladin

rain cave
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lol imagine TLT brings back artifacts and we get shalamayne

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doubt it but

pulsar minnow
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as much as I really like the idea of Anduin being a paladin, there’s also the connotation of him being all about the edicts and pillars of paladinism that just doesn’t fully mesh with his character

clear apex
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They put more and more cloth looking stuff on paladins and try to put metal on priests but tell us about class identity

rain cave
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paladins are all about conviction whereas I feel anduin is not that style of guy

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he's a hear him out guy

pulsar minnow
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Anduin is much more about personal autonomy than what some edicts dictate him to be

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He follows his own moral compass not others

clear apex
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While he can heal and stuff, i never think of him as a priest

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He's just a guy who wants good

pulsar minnow
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He is John Warcraft

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credits roll

rain cave
pulsar minnow
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The problem with Anduin I think for the longest time is that he always preached about peace but never saw the realities of those fighting his wars

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He was very aloof and came off like a spoiled rich kid (even though he was a really nice guy)

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Come to think of it Anduin and Jayce from Arcane S2 have a lot in common

clear apex
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Mists remix really made me realize some of that

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Id rather forgotten how he was

pulsar minnow
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My favorite part about Anduins arc was how meta it was. They just took the complaints from players and just slapped it into the actual story. Anduin’s arc was fully determined by how players had viewed him prior

deep pawn
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He saw the Alliance armies decimated against the Legion.

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He saw Teldrassil burnt and unable to do anything about it.

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I think he's aware of the realities than most.

pulsar minnow
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I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing from player perception of him

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Anduin wasn’t apart of the fighting in mop. He sat playing chess with Wrathion

clear apex
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Even got kidnapped once or twice

deep pawn
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After he literally nearly died breaking the god damn bell.

clear apex
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That too

deep pawn
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Lest you forget, Garrosh turned him into jelly.

pulsar minnow
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Yes. And that was the one thing he did and just got his ass kicked

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Unfortunate typo lol

deep pawn
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He was 14...

pulsar minnow
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I’m aware

clear apex
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I think at the start he was a bit naive in mop, but after the bell he was "maybe that's not a great idea to run into danger"

pulsar minnow
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Keep in mind btw Anduin is my favorite character in WoW full stop

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Always has been.

deep pawn
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I feel like he learned a lot in Krasarang from Chi-ji.

pulsar minnow
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So I’m not hating on him

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But Anduin was a lot of talk, not a lot of action

clear apex
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I like anduin as well and think it's fine to say when they do stupid stuff.

pulsar minnow
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Current Anduin is perfect and the best culmination of the last few years of wow. He’s fully set up to do some awesome things during the world soul saga

clear apex
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SL was a rough time listening to some people about him

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Honestly I'm missing him after we saw so much in 11.0

pulsar minnow
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same. While I think it’s the goblins story I wish he would’ve just at least been in the raid

rain cave
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he's busy frolicking in the sunflowers with his new bestie

clear apex
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Fair. He could use a break

pulsar minnow
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The lack of Faerin is also annoying. But she’ll definitely have a ton to do in Quel Thalas

clear apex
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I can't wait for midnight

pulsar minnow
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She’s by far the best character addition in my opinion

clear apex
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Yes!

deep pawn
clear apex
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I didn't know how to feel about her at first but she quickly grew on me

rain cave
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anduin doesn't know WHAT to do a lot of the time

clear apex
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No thoughts. Head empty

rain cave
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as in narratively he has that a lot I feel

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it's where his conflict comes from

deep pawn
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And often when Anduin DOES act, Greymane, Shaw, and Turalyon just try to put him back in a box.

pulsar minnow
rain cave
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ib BfA his generals ran the war because he doesn't know how to be a warmonger

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in legion he didn't know how to be a king

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in tww he doesn't know how to be himself

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etc

deep pawn
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To be fair he wasn't supposed to be a King at just 18 lol.

rain cave
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yeah

clear apex
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Id still like to see a retry with the undead and alliance, since a certain elf got in the way

deep pawn
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No one can prepare you for your father being turned into green enchanting dust.

clear apex
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T.T

rain cave
glass flicker
harsh mason
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Alas, Gally let down a little. But this is what I once wrote about: blizz are afraid to make secret phases difficult, remember, for example, Garrosh, Markog, Guldan, Nzoth, Jailer, their secret phases were very simple. Argus and Ragnaros are exceptions

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That's why I think it's better to make a secret boss than a secret phase.

warm topaz
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i think not having the boss in the journal is cool yeah

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kinda like Gally, only intermission and P1, the rest is full blind

deep pawn
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We're gonna get another round of interview postmortems where Ion apologizes for the tuning

silent urchin
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I think the biggest thing was some of the mug'zee raid one-shots being a bit inconsistent, getting mines to go off apparently sometimes just didn't work

harsh mason
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I don't think the total number of raid attempts is more than 500, the raid tuning is normal

warm topaz
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and by that time, it made sense

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talent trees were new

silent urchin
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tbh the balance might feel better for the majority of guilds than it did for RWF. They said a few times they wanted to back away a bit from the arms race with RWF guilds. People getting to the earlier bosses with much higher ilvl over the next few weeks might find them much easier, while the co-ordination check on gallywix will still feel much harder for them

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stix and mug'zee probably the biggest issues. Lots of randomness and tight comp requirement

warm topaz
# silent urchin tbh the balance might feel better for the majority of guilds than it did for RWF...

https://x.com/towelthetank/status/1901283133154357637?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet|twtr^true

Towelliee (@towelthetank) on X

I said pre race during the interviews that Blizzard would need to sacrifice the RWF for the betterment of the vision they have for the game. I wouldn't say per say it was sacrificed but they definitely had a lot of opportunities to buff some bosses mid raid like have done in

X ·
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Towelliee thought the same thing

silent urchin
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It's mostly just a bit anticlimatic, and RWF viewers seem to want the guilds to basically suffer as long as possible. Overall race was pretty average length I guess?

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I'm not sure how much longer having harder tuning on gallywix would have made it last, it looked very repeatable compared to the fights with the highest pull counts, where ability targets can have a huge effect on who has to do what

warm topaz
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both guilds pushing at the same time with both sub 1% wipes

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that was fucking epic

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Max says that 8 bosses raid make the difficulty curve a bit more tricky

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in terms of design

deep pawn
warm topaz
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i meant tuning not about the curve

deep pawn
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Curve is part of tuning

warm topaz
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fair enough

warm topaz
deep pawn
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It's sort of a consistent issue same as them saying they hear healers say healing is too bouncy

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It might just be they can't do it with current class design

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Cause surely they can't design a fight around Dracthyr and DHs

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If Dracthyr could be Monks it's over lol

rain cave
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Who cares its just RWF murloc

deep pawn
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I meant they can't design a mechanic that can only be done by Dracthyr haha

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I feel like a lot of this raid relied on teleport effects.

harsh mason
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Guys, it took more than 550 pulls for the entire raid, this is not an oversimplification. I'm sure they were afraid to make the secret phase difficult because nothing was known about it, but it turned out that the top guilds easily overcame it. The raid as a whole is quite difficult, more difficult than many other tiers

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In general, this tier turned out to be more difficult than, for example, Aberrus, BoD, or, for example, early tier raids in Cata or Pandaria.

ember blaze
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like max mentioned several mechanics you could stand on and not get one shot by which is weird for mythic

silent urchin
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new build

deep pawn
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boring notes

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I'm actually a tad disappointed in no class changes

silent urchin
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huh, auto filtering for chat channels

image.png
rain cave
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while potentially good, I worry the thunderfury spam might get damaged

silent urchin
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can't really see much else interesting

deep pawn
silent urchin
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Yeah, presumably something like that

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probably similar to what they do to detect and add the report button on whispers

deep pawn
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inb4 manbabies whine their free speech is impacted lol

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I wonder what non tank spells exist lol.

upper pasture
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Maybe dps trinkets becoming non useable by tanks

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Which would really suck for blood DKs

sullen dawn
rain cave
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I just realized something about ethereals

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if we got a patch around them they'd have to do something new with their models

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because I doubt a patch and raid full of sameface bandage peeps would be what blizz would do

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which if anything I would say makes them being a potential playable more likely since they'd have to make more options

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or alternatively, they do something like get their physical forms back, atleast some of them, or some voidy physical form

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
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Or in the raid one of the bosses can have a reverted form

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Maybe a sub faction of enemies

deep pawn
upper pasture
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maybe, maybe not.

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disc shouldn't be disqualified from dps trinkets

deep pawn
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why not

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trinkets haven't transferred with atonement in forever

upper pasture
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Yes, but what about stat trinkets?

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Their healing scales with their dps so a trinket that increases their stats to do more damage shouldn’t disqualify them from being able to use it. Yes their dps from the trinket doesn’t heal with atonement but a stat increase would

deep pawn
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that's not the type of trinket they'd consider blocking

pulsar minnow
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just had a thought- if 11.2 ends up being based on K'aresh, are they just gonna save a Beledar payoff and the Haranir lands for TLT? It doesn't feel like Beledar's story is finished. I refuse to believe its just a glorified magical scab on Azeroth

rain cave
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since they're related to elves and trolls, and the amani and elf interactions will be a part of midnight most likely

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but to me it makes more sense to set them up more beforehand no?

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otherwise orweyna will feel like saome random golden child just injecting herself into things she has no real right to

pulsar minnow
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sure, definitely not ruling it out

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I want more Orweyna for sure

rain cave
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which is why to me I feel like rootlands are 11.2

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and the ethereal thing is a setup for later

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if anything this could be why midnight happens

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Xal has lost the dark heart. She needs a different power source

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Plan B, the sunwell. Let Alleria corrupt it for her even

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there was a theory actually that she's basically grooming Alleria to be her next host

dense plover
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i dont think karesh will be 11.2

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considering there wont be an 11.3, i expect midnight to have k'aresh or whatever void stuff they do since its clearly been framed as the void focused expac

pulsar minnow
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See I would agree, its just that Ethereal Tabard and the Ethereal Raid weapons combo'd with the K'aresh reveal happening now that makes me unsure

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but not really trying to dig up this conversation, just moreso wondering how in the scenario these plotthreads are sidelined, how they could fit into the Last Titan

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Reason being Beledar is just so incredibly strange and doesn't just seem like a chunk of azerite based on its carvings and shape as well as its teleportation abilities - and again this cosmic conspiracy

rain cave
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I mean beledar is seperate from the other azerite literally

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it's not part of the liquid that flows through azeroth

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my theory is that it's azerite without titan influence

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hence no blue arcane

pulsar minnow
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well maybe, but its referred to as Calcified World Soul Essence, yet is very strictly Holy Light or Void

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and we still don't know why the sword caused it to act up

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So I really wonder if they're planning to wrap up this plot thread here or later, considering the sword is the subject of the entire saga. (if they dont my guess is TLT. Reason being the Radiant Song requiring all forces to join in: Elun'ahir = Life, Beledar = Light/Void, The Frozen Throne = Death, Titan Facilities = Arcane, Sword = Disorder together they begin Azeroth's awakening as a First One/Prime World Soul)

dense plover
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i would not consider that a big deal

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they came in 11.0

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its very possible that there may be ethereal stuff in the rootlands

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they cant just jump from underground to space

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its also possible that the ethereal stuff was planned before they planned the harronir stuff

pulsar minnow
dense plover
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orweyna is too important for them to just not finish her story

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and theres no way we move onto the next expac and return to this continent later

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theyre going to use the ethereals to build up to the story in midnight

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theyre not going to do a void patch and then also an entire void expansion after

pulsar minnow
dense plover
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its a mess of an expac

pulsar minnow
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Doesn’t mean that you can’t have a final patch be the same theme as the expansion you’re transitioning into?

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And besides, it would actually make sense to return to Khaz Algar in TLT

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Considering the World Core exists

dense plover
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ive said my piece - i dont want to argue in circles. I know i cant change your mind. Im sure we will know shortly

pulsar minnow
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Well thats fine because this wasn’t really the discussion I was trying to have anyways

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I was trying to talk about how in the scenario it isn’t 11.2 how it would fit into the world soul saga

rain cave
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with beledar as the light

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but who knows really, I imagine we won't exactly want a void sunwell

pulsar minnow
rain cave
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true, maybe that's what the dark heart was

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literally... the dark heart

pulsar minnow
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Could be what brings the titans back as they go panic mode realizing the world soul is awakening but not fully indoctrinated

rain cave
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she was aiming to make the void part of azeroth

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and maybe that's why ethereals wanted it?

pulsar minnow
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“Her heart is a crater”

rain cave
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to try and recreate their worldsoul

pulsar minnow
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Maybe. But tbh idk how that would work. The dark heart just turns whatever magics it absorbs into void

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Like the arcane in dalaran or the light of Beledar

rain cave
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yeah

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maybe the ethereals want to reverse it lmao

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looks like their whole plannet has a big hole in it as if it got sucked into void

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now they have a powerful artifact that sucks things up similarly, maybe they'll reverse engineer it

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see where their planet went

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if khadghar came out

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maybe their planet can as well

pulsar minnow
# rain cave maybe the ethereals want to reverse it lmao

Though actually this might also be an ability of the dark heart. While not explicitly stated Xal was absorbing void energy from Beledar’s shadow. (Or was she expelling it into Beledar? For the sake of the argument I’ll just say she was absorbing it)

rain cave
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I just remembered

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khadghar made a point of saying he converted himself to pure energy

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and that's how he survived

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HMMMMMMM

pulsar minnow
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Oooooo good point

rain cave
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that's extremely similar to the ethereals

pulsar minnow
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You think the world soul turned itself into pure energy to survive?

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Yk that’s redundant. The thing is already a ball of energy

rain cave
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I mean

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if it absorbs all the physical "stuff"

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maybe what happened is the ethereals separated from their bodies to escape

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I'm unsure though

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but I DO get a feeling khadghars line will be very relevant

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the dark heart is connected in someway to the ethereals and their predicament, as they stole it ofc, but also because it's related to the reason they are bandages with energy

pulsar minnow
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Yeah honestly you’re making like too much sense now I really think you’re onto something

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This very well might be the direction they’re going for

rain cave
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xal is also related to this as she is as far as we know just energy that inhabits a form

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we've also heard that the void lords need physical forms to inhabit in reality

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hence why they want a worldsoul

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old gods themselves aren't pure void, they've got death magic in them to give them that mortal flesh, but that also means they have their own agenda and aren't reliable

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there's a big throughline of void beings or things related to the void needing bodies

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the darkheart was constructed by neltharion with the help of goblins, being a prototype dragon soul

pulsar minnow
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We know it took an enormous effort for Dimensius to just show up to assault K’aresh during its radiant song

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So if they want to set up Dimensius for Midnight (I stg he better be the villain of midnight or I might flip) they gotta get him the power somehow

rain cave
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even the ACTUAL dragon soul apparently was literally tearing deathwing apart btw

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that's why he has all the plates holding him together

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and ofc the dragon soul would absorb essences

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dragon soul was also used around the well of eternity, which then went on to spawn the sunwell

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and midnight = sunwell

pulsar minnow
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Are they just gonna use the sunwell as another portal like the legion tried in BC?

rain cave
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I think that's the going theory

pulsar minnow
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Because that’s a very easy option to “start the void invasion” but it also feels sort of arbitrary since void beings just love opening portals

rain cave
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my idea is that it won't be the literal sunwell

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but that the sunwell will be sought out as a power source for it

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but that they won't miss on the opportunity for a new skybox change like in legion

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the logo for midnight is the moon eclipsing the sun

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imagine dimenisus eclipsing the sun, coming out of the moon

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as our skybox for the final patches

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just some ominous eyes staring down at us from the void

pulsar minnow
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My hope is that the midnight invasion is essentially K’aresh part 2

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But hopefully not a night sky for an entire expansion. I want to see Quel Thalas fully realized

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I just don’t know how they’d make it work but the art team never seems to fail so

rain cave
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oh yeah I think they'll save a skybox change for the end of 12.1

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going into a final showdown in 12.2

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like before argus in legion

pulsar minnow
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We’re gonna see the full forces of not just the void but the light too. I pray to all that is holy they don’t skimp out on representing the light in this expansion

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Something that I feel is very often overlooked unfortunately

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It’s not exactly the Void expansion. It’s the Light vs Void expansion

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Also fingers crossed we can get introduced to at least one of the Lightlords.

rain cave
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don't forget elune

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the reason I like the idea of blotting out the moon is that it creates a sense of dread in the elves by blocking their connection to elune

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and maybe that cut off is a signal to Elune, and she'll show up with the light forces to help us

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or atleast something with her will happen

pulsar minnow
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Good point

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Hell if it’s light too, her brother might make an appearance

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Would help in getting to introduce us to the various gods who are supposed to make their appearance in Renilash

rain cave
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I wonder how they're going to tackle the cosmic stuff

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since I doubt they'll want to play their full hand

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and we didn't respond well to the pure cosmic stuff in SL

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they've been wayyy more grounded

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it could be an interesting perspective if the light forces show up to help but all the god tier people are literally up in the sky keeping dimensius away

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and we don't even talk to them

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just the forces

pulsar minnow
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I definitely don’t think it’s possible for the player forces to be able to take on all the titans

#

I suspect they’ll introduce specific gods from different cosmologies with a stake in all of this

#

So like An’she and Elune if they want to go the route of Azeroth literally just being the earthmother that bore them

#

Maybe the Primus since he’s buddies with Aman’thul

#

We’ll probably have some titans on our side. Hell maybe we’ll find a dissenting void lord like Invalidus to join us

dense plover
#

i dont remember where i read it but someone said last titan might be called that because all the other ones will be killed as part of the arc itself

#

like we dont fight them but iridikron fucks them up or something

#

and then we have no choice but to join forces with the last titan - Sargeras

pulsar minnow
#

I 100% believe we’ll end up siding with Sargeras by the end of this

rain cave
#

I did see I think Tali saying maybe TLT starts off with iridikron railgunning all the titans as soon as they arrive and then maybe we have to do some primordial azeroth stuff back in time to figure out whats going on

#

also yes sargeras redemption arc

#

it's too good not to do

dense plover
#

i dont see them ever doing time travel again not beyond a dungeon or something

rain cave
#

personally I've got two headcannons of whats going to happen

#

Illidan comes flying down scorched with order magic to warn us amanthul is coming

#

fallen angel style

#

or

#

he comes in on sargeras's shoulder

pulsar minnow
#

I have my crackpot theory that Sargeras was never meant to be a titan and was instead a nascent world soul belonging to disorder - then pumped full of arcane and made a Titan

rain cave
#

both I would be happy with

rain cave
dense plover
#

i think he was insane from the titan's viewpoint

#

but his goal was to destroy azeroth because he saw the danger its existance posed to the entire universe if the void got their hands on it

#

if the champions of azeroth werent as strong as they are, and sargeras never tried to come to azeroth, the void definitely wouldve won

rain cave
#

I would like to point out that for a "burning crusade meant to wipe out all life in the universe"

#

he sure did recruit a lot of people from planets he didn't destroy

dense plover
#

everything the titans did on azeroth has been corrupted by the void in one way or another

#

none of what they tried worked right

rain cave
#

and always made sure to try getting them to join him first

#

and even kept gateways to those planets open from his hub

dense plover
#

if anything, its reasonable to assume his goal was to wipe out world souls so the void couldnt gain a foothold

#

as far as we know, he didnt destory worlds without world souls

rain cave
#

if anything he could have been trying to make his own pantheon

#

since he keps argus alive

#

I think the issue was that sargeras just didn't know how to do things in a NOT order way

#

he's a titan

dense plover
#

destroying everything IS order

#

its just lawful evil

rain cave
#

yeah

#

he brought order to the demons

#

and a formal army

#

etc

#

but that was also his downfall

#

he tried corrupting argus to his side I guess

#

but realized all he knew was making another titan

#

so he tried making a titan then binding it to whatever he wanted

dense plover
#

like how the void sees every path and that means they cant see the truth, order can only see one path and seres no alternatives

rain cave
#

instead of nurturing it into something else

dense plover
#

Sargeras saw one path forward

#

he was just ALSO wrong

#

just like the rest of the titans were

rain cave
#

"oh a worldsoul I must make it into a titan so it can join me"

#

except those are conflicting statements in a way

#

because titans are order

#

but he WAS still order at heart

#

he only sees worldsouls as titans

pulsar minnow
#

Hopefully they’ll also address Argus a little more in TLT

#

He’s a Titan with powers over death

rain cave
#

doesn't help the dreadlords were planning something with argus under his nose looks like

dense plover
pulsar minnow
#

Like how the hell did that happen

dense plover
#

that was the internal name

rain cave
#

honestly the idea of argus being used by sargeras for a dark pantheon

#

makes sense

#

we have eonar

dense plover
#

im not sure they ever officially titled him that

pulsar minnow
#

Well yeah but I think it could come into play here

dense plover
#

also, we potentially have Legion remix coming right?

glass flicker
#

It does seem believable. I mean, Argus killed us, but ol' George the Jailer couldn't. 🤣

dense plover
#

so its possible they might revisit some of this

dense plover
pulsar minnow
#

We have stuff about world souls being not inherently titans now. And then Argus being sent to the shadowlands upon death… it just really makes me wonder if he was meant to be a titan

dense plover
#

or it could be the legion corruption combined with the order of a titan broke stuff

pulsar minnow
#

I think it could be a cool twist that aman thul lied to a few of the titans and made them order when they were destined for something else

dense plover
#

chaos and order neutralizing each other sorta thing

pulsar minnow
#

Also we definitely need Titan origins cleared up after shadowlands threw a wrench in their origin story

rain cave
pulsar minnow
#

I think of the bunch Eonar and Sargeras at least are of other pantheons but forced to be titans

dense plover
pulsar minnow
#

The introduction of the Zereths

dense plover
#

also, maybe we can just ignore the jailer being a weird robot puppet?

#

that storyline is the worst thing in wow PERIOD

pulsar minnow
#

Look I don’t want these gods to be robots

#

That’s not what I’m asking

#

What I’m saying is that we’re told titans are born of world souls

#

Yet Zereth Ordus exists

#

They have an entire realm yet they exist in the mortal plane

#

Why is that

dense plover
#

is that the mortal plane?

#

i thought zereth stuff was shadowlands which is a different plane

pulsar minnow
#

There’s a Zereth for every cosmic force

dense plover
#

they SAID that but we never SAW it right?

#

that means it doesnt have to be true

#

which i hope is the case

#

almost none of the lore in shadowlands was good

pulsar minnow
#

It was mentioned by Odyn

#

It was in Dragonflight

dense plover
#

it was?

#

source plz

#

i do NOT remember that

pulsar minnow
#

Edicts of the Prime Designate Vol 742

#

Found in Uldaman

dense plover
#

found it

image.png
#

i AM curious why odyn knows any of this

#

why the fuck would the titans risk their subordinates knowing this since they dont need to

#

unless Odyn figured it out on his own

pulsar minnow
#

Odyn was just probably told

#

Hell he might have been born there himself

dense plover
#

hes a keeper not a titan

#

he was made

pulsar minnow
#

Yeah

#

Made there

dense plover
#

i kinda dont want to know about the first ones or any of that

#

i hope they just dont bother right now

#

i dont think its super important for the story yet

pulsar minnow
#

Well we kinda have to if we’re going into the Prime World Soul storyline

#

And the whole cosmic conspiracy

#

We 100% will have to go to Zereth Ordus for the end of the Last Titan. I see no alternative besides the world core

#

We know for a fact Azeroth has a direct link to the First Ones and frankly, it’s unavoidable

#

Personally I actually think the first ones were a really good addition to the story and actually helped make the players seem less like gods after we had just killed a titan. Put everything in a new perspective

deep pawn
#

I don't know if they'll actually risk Zereth Ordus after Mortis was kinda panned.

#

I don't know what 13.1 and 13.2 will be, but I'm certain 13.0's raid is Iridikron.

rain cave
#

who says the zereths are actually the "cores" of each respective place though

#

for all we know they could just be order aligned/ first ones research outposts

#

or part of their order

#

the shadowlands existed in a different state before the first ones

#

and the brokers say the titans are pretending to be the first ones by taking credit

#

so were the titans produced by the first ones? or were the first ones just a different branch of order?

#

perhaps from a time before the cosmology was as split as it is now

#

when order was perhaps a combination of arcane, death and light, rather than arcane as it is seen now

#

and disorder was life, shadow and chaos

uncut vault
#

it's just that the dreadlords were secretly pumping Argus full of extra Death magic under the guise of sustaining its role as the revival engine for the Legion

#

but secretly, they were tricking Kil'jaeden and Sargeras and actually infusing it enough so that it would go to the Shadowlands when killed

#

They might change it later (and I hope they do because Argus having some 'natural' death affinity as a world soul is interesting) but atm it's all just Jailer 5D chess plan

rain cave
#

since that thing looks a LOT like venthyr anima

#

would also help with the sargeras plot where we already kind of know the dreadlords pushed him to be what he was

#

but maybe they also fed him the info that caused him to stab the planet there with that sword

#

apparently the naaru dislike death magic, hence why the shadowlands naaru says they can't go back

#

pumping the land full of anima like that even if it was to "weaken" or crack open the world soul for the jailer

#

also causing beledar to shift because ew death magic

#

but also that death magic mixing with the roots is an interesting thing, and we already know to beware the eyes of green because of trearchery or w/e

deep pawn
rain cave
#

perhaps there;s a dreadlord down in eluneahir manipulating the haranir

#

pretending to help them and direct them stave off the corruption of the sword

#

as a fake vassal of life

sullen dawn
#

Shadowlands destroyed the lore of one of the most interesting races in wow

#

Dreadlords should have always been agnostic to the 6 forces. The "anti azerothians" and have no master behind the scenes except maybe a head dreadlord

glass fulcrum
rain cave
#

but I also think they shouldn't have put them inthe final raid

#

sure they were working withe jailer but I think they should have earmarked it clearer that their loyalty is to denathrius

#

and that they are seperate from the jailer plans, with their own agenda

#

because them being a sort of rogue faction that could pop up at any minute for reason we don't know yet is a good thing

#

instead of tying them to the burning legion like before

#

If anything Denathrius has a potentially intersting plot position

#

as someone who was part of the order set up by the first ones, who wanted to reject that and be a creator himself

#

but climbs the ladder not through sheer power but by trying to manipulate and look for openings across the cosmos

#

when the dreadlords come up again, they will be a massive smorgasbord of colours, thems and items from their operations in every part of the cosmos

sullen dawn
#

The venthyr did nothing for me tbh

rain cave
#

gallywix is detheroc is still on my card

sullen dawn
#

It just diminished their value imo

rain cave
#

since the way his "death" scene is shot just gives me the vibes that it will get revisited with a different perspective down the line

sullen dawn
#

Denathrius was a fun campy one off villain but as leader of the dreadlords he doesnt fit in the slightest

rain cave
#

he kinda fits imo

#

maybe not in a direct way

#

but in a "king who wants to go beyond his means" way

#

like how varian was the head of SI7 technically despite not fitting them himself

sullen dawn
#

I hate that people were so fond of him. He was cool in the context of the castle nathria raid, but i didnt really think he deserv3d to be returning, especially not as dreadlord head

rain cave
#

they did say it was pretty last minute that they changed him to be a comeback thing

sullen dawn
#

The only way I think kt works is if dreadlords aren't actually from realm of death but are extremely ancient beings from the twiditng nether, ans they infiltrated the shadiwlands when first ones were making eternals, swapping the intended soul with one of theirs into densthrius bot

rain cave
#

maybe there was some astarion love going around since BG3 early access was also around that time

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

and denathrius and astarion have similar vampire posh vibes

sullen dawn
#

If they take the route I just suggested its salvageable

rain cave
sullen dawn
rain cave
#

I just want to see what they do with it now they're not shackled by venthyr aesthetics/lore

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

denathrius looked how he did ig to keep up appearances and because of the kind of anima he was getting

#

but what if denathrius now made his own aesthetic

#

so dreadlords can get their own look back

sullen dawn
#

Dreadlords tricking even the first ones and installing a dreadlord into an eternal kne bot body and hjijacking part of the shadowlanda wojld be peak dreadlord

rain cave
#

honestly they could cook if they delve into the dreadlord asethetics like they're doing for ethereals

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
rain cave
sullen dawn
rain cave
#

the first ones wanted to create systems

#

the dreadlords wanted to undermine them

#

they're constantly playing the 6 against eachother

#

and we're literally the only one who have beat them

#

every other force falls for their shit

sullen dawn
#

That would be fantastic. I really see them as extremely ancient beings who have infiltrated EVERYTHING

#

Making them venthyr lackeys is weak

rain cave
#

only mortals have the creativity and soul to not fall for them in the long run

#

their tricks get less and less effective on us

#

meanwhile we KNOW they have agents in every cosmic force

sullen dawn
#

Any force individually would fall to them, even together. Only we can stop them

rain cave
#

they got sargeras to become the dark titan of chaos, using him to order the demons into a legion to disrupt the titans

#

but by ordering chaos then chaos is also disrupted

sullen dawn
#

Yep

rain cave
#

lothraxion spearhelmed the armoy of the light

#

to stop sargeras from getting too strong

#

keeping the fight going longer by having players on both sides

sullen dawn
#

Im of the opinion dreadlords should be the final final bosses of wow

#

And the SL mess needs fixing if thats to be the case

rain cave
#

in shadowlands denathrius was doing stuff, probably only in the jailers plan to disrupt which he did because dreadlords were behind the aaarbiter thing

#

we're told that dreadlords were a part of a void planet when sarg first encountered them, and were the ones who told him about it

#

so another area they're involved in

#

and ofc life was tough for them they said

sullen dawn
#

Theyre in all 6 (although life is tricky for them) if their letters are accurate

rain cave
#

but we literally have the whisper and the book saying they did it

#

I'm still all in on dreadlord being at elunahir

sullen dawn
#

I hope elunahir is TLT first patch tbh

rain cave
#

e.g. a fake titan keeper managing the harranir and telling them what to do with the roots and not talk to anyone

sullen dawn
#

/rootlands

#

And karesh is 11.2

rain cave
#

I just feel like Karesh fits into midnight better

#

and rootlands sort of needs to be this xpac

#

idk

sullen dawn
#

Life/titan/dreadlord mix just fits TLT better jmo

rain cave
#

it's a tough situation

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

because the harranir stuff feels more like a setup for the midnight elf /amani story

sullen dawn
#

90% of our void lore over the years has been old god related

rain cave
#

we've been getting cosmic void this xpac and others though

sullen dawn
#

Going into legion we knew soooooo much more about demons, than we do about cosmic void rn pre midnight

rain cave
#

but maybe midnight can also be that expansion that shows us more directly

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

first raids of legion weren't fel

#

it was EN and nighthold while we learned about the legion

upper pasture
#

the only pressing concern right now is chasing down the dark heart, which the ethereals have.

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

who's to say we don't get midnight, where the sunwell is defended and we have refugees from silvermoon. but xal is trying to make a deal with the amani

upper pasture
#

which is why i think karesh is the next step then something happens with the harranir and they reach out to us to come back to azeroth and help them

rain cave
#

so first raid is amani themed

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

2

sullen dawn
#

That would be terrible

#

Base campaign for midnight will be focused on elven reunification imo

rain cave
#

12.0 Amani
12.1 Sunwell and void impacting elf stuff
12.2 Void, Karesh, Xal

#

I feel that fulfills the "raid that is on theme but slightly different than main story" -> "2nd arc involving mcguffin of the story with teases of 3rd arc" -> "Final showdown big bombastic pure aesthetic of the big bad"

#

like we had in legion

#

and BfA

#

and SL

#

and DF

#

like in legion the "fel" aesthetic faded in until we had it fully in 7.3

#

in BfA we had old god hints athroughout until we were in Nzoths realm

#

SL we got first ones aesthetics creeping in, etc

#

and aberrus directly set up shadowflame aesthetic for the final patch

sullen dawn
#

Id rather:

11.2 Karesh
12.0 Elven reunification and amani raid
12.1 Sunwell defence
12.2 Renelash, light become evil and its a three way war
13.0 Storm peaks raid with galakrond
13.1 Rootlands /elunahir
13.2 Titan realm and heart of azeroth final raid boss / crazy ass disco war

Then start new saga - either arathi empire or outer space with medivh to begin exploring 7th force

silent urchin
#

I'm just here waiting to find out what the grand conspiracy is

upper pasture
#

i'm pretty sure the elven unification IS the defence of the sunwell. as they will likely be one in the same

sullen dawn
#

That gives us 11.2 through to 12.2 to build up and deal with void Lords

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
silent urchin
#

titans are meanies for a reason tho

#

what is azeroth really, and what else is trying to claim it

sullen dawn
upper pasture
#

it's probably just they aren't the selfless benefactors that they've claimed to be this whole time

sullen dawn
#

She's a "prime world soul" whatever that means. Possibly a first one of one of their engines of creation

sullen dawn
glass fulcrum
rain cave
#

my idea would be:
11.2 Rootlands, we have no means of getting to karesh and have no leads. The roots are in direct danger from all the black blood, Orweyna pulls us there. Harranir allied race after campaign.
12.0 Quelthalas campaign, renown tracks and stories for High elves, Amani Elves, Undead, Naga. Amani raid
12.1 Sunwell, Xal needs the sunwell now that the dark heart is stolen, the ethereals also re-enter the picture to try stop her with us. Perhaps we defend the sunwell but i was a trick and she gets the dark heart back, Dimensius summoned.

sullen dawn
glass fulcrum
#

Did I miss something? When was that said?

sullen dawn
#

I said storm peaks as I dont think a straight ulduar raid again would be the most original. Maybe parts of it

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

12.2 Light forces show up, Elune, Anshe fight dimensius in the skye while the forces of the light help us on the ground and we go to karesh with the ethereals to go into the portal to stop whatevers going on

#

then after the dust settles the titans show up and iridikron does something insane in 13.0

sullen dawn
#

Iridikron likely kills Golganneth

rain cave
#

iridikron you mean?

sullen dawn
#

The titan nobody cares about

sullen dawn
upper pasture
#

we have no current reason to go to the rootlands right now, Orweyna is the only harranir talking to us and is excommunicated from her race, the only story current that has a reasonable thing is chasing after the dark heart

rain cave
#

dam kron's

rain cave
#

the harranir came out because of it

#

orweyna's story is all about stopping the black blood atm

#

with nobody mining it maybe its natural flow will make the roots in danger more

#

the goblins even point out how blowing up their equipment harvesting it will do more harm since it'll just spill everywhere again

sullen dawn
#

I just feel that the xal/ethereal thread is a bigger priority than the black bood/orweyna one

rain cave
#

we have no leads or means to follow the dark heart

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

if he wanted

#

I just hope they don't forget about the harranir lmao

sullen dawn
#

Yeh, it seems like there's an ethereal civil war a bit going on

rain cave
#

because if they just dissapear untul TLT after being set up now it would be strange

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

like imagine if the pandaren were introduced in pandaria but then became playable in WoD or Legion

sullen dawn
#

They create a nice bridge between elves and trolls (amani)

rain cave
#

I mean maybe they could do something where Elune arrives and realizes there's something wrong with the roots

#

and so we go then

sullen dawn
#

Could even use that a as reason to have trolls be part of the "elven reunification"

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

so much story to tell and only 2 patches to do it

#

😭

sullen dawn
#

Yeh thats more cocern

#

Id rather they focus on less plot points ans give them more time

rain cave
sullen dawn
#

So its not just "do a million things in a tiny amount of space"

rain cave
#

I personally like the idea of her being in the skybox protecting us and so she isn't able to come down

#

bigger fish to fry

#

we can only watch from our mortal perspective as things happen above us

#

instead of getting us directly into the cosmic shenanigans like SL

sullen dawn
#

Cosmic is ok if its done lik3 argus

#

Tied to stuff we know, and filling in lore gaps

#

Instead of random new nonsense

pulsar minnow
#

Aman’thul is seemingly unaware the tree yet lives

#

And with Eonar her supposed lover coming back, it would fit

deep pawn
#

Like I don't know WHATS gonna happen in TLT except that we fight Iridikron

#

I just need them to deliver on his lair actually being constantly shifting

#

The description of his raid seems nuts

#

Give us a room where he fought Neltharion as a book treat

sullen dawn
#

Festure wise im hoping:

  • Tinker/Artificer class
  • Glyphs system huge rework/expansion with hundreds of glyphs allowing for massive class fantasy customization
  • Order halls back as permanent feature, class quests added on continuous basis, linked to glyph system and class lore dumps
  • Maybe dynamic ground mounts or a lot more "families" if they get a few like horses, wolves, and hawkstriders in midnight
rain cave
sullen dawn
#

Another possibility could be trying path of the titans again, although I know its borrowed power. Maybe it could be done similar to hero talents

rain cave
#

if the reason we can't find it is because it's literally a pocket of the earth boring around

#

so when we do find it and get in there, it's literally like a giant piece of rock just moving the earth out of its way

rain cave
sullen dawn
#

Other asks for TLT would be playable vrykul

rain cave
#

I would ADORE playing a magic item more martial spellcaster like that

sullen dawn
#

Id prefer tinker but im happy with either tbh

rain cave
#

combine rune system from DK's with some stuff from mage

#

but yeah tinker would probably be more tech focused

#

but magitech

sullen dawn
#

But artificer i still meant a tech class. Whatever it is itll be a tech class imo

#

Its kind of the big thing missing from wows class mix

rain cave
#

yee that's what I mean

#

but like in DnD the artificer is still a "caster" class but it creates items that do magic for them

sullen dawn
#

Yeh j mean more artificer as its bene presented in wow

rain cave
#

so instead of lightning bolt, a turret with a big magic crystal that does it

sullen dawn
#

Like the draenei and ethereal tech/crystal dudes

rain cave
#

yup

rain cave
#

tuskarr for alliance vrykul for horde would be a funny pull

sullen dawn
#

That would be amazing haha

#

Everyone's so hyped about housing and stuff in midnight but k think TLT has a chance to be special too

#

Glyphs galore would be a big deal for me

rain cave
#

I'd love them to do a bit where the alliance open talks for vrykul to join them

#

but they can't fit through the doors and just hate how clean everything is

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

and just join the horde because it's their jam and they have the big doors for tauren xD

#

vrykul aesthetically match the horde better as well

sullen dawn
#

I would change my frost dk to a vrykul in a second

rain cave
#

vrykul prot warrior with the mountain thane hero talents

#

just a BIG boi

glass flicker
#

We don't need more things to balance.

rain cave
#

I'm on the fence about more classes but tbf I do think maybe they should just take the plunge

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

focus less on trying to make a hypber balanced smaller amount of classes that don't make people happy anyway

#

and just make the fantasies people like

sullen dawn
#

Imo balancing is secondary to roleplaying and new gameplay styles

sullen dawn
#

You could transfer your fantasy completely with the right combo of glyphs

rain cave
#

imo they should use hero talents to fill out more niches

#

as in more drastic changes from the hero talents for one off fantasies

sullen dawn
#

Theyre just a bit limited imo, and then fantasies have tk be linked to player power

#

Id rather just separate the cosmetic from the power

#

Then people can go wild

rain cave
#

I get that sentiment, it's a good one

#

but also to me I think a good portion want to FEEL it as well

#

they want to play that fantasy not reskin into it

#

like arms warrior could not fulfill a blademaster fantasy as it is rn design wise

sullen dawn
#

Well animation changes and stuff can give that if done right. Im not saying dknt expand hero talents as well

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

I don't think people would respond well to that xD

#

but also I don't think it could

sullen dawn
#

Earth wind and fire for clones. Roll for a dash thing. Fists of fury for a crazy sword flurry

glass flicker
#

I like how the Slayer hero spec has an unique Execute visual effect with a bloody weapon trail. Give me more of that. Give me weapon trail glyphs.

rain cave
#

yeah but thern you have the issue of trying to reskin all the fist stuff into blade swipes

#

so you'd need a new set on animations for all of those

#

and then the aesthetic mismatch

#

of having all the jade lightning and panda icons

sullen dawn
sullen dawn
#

Like one glyph changes 4 of your spells

rain cave
#

I think blademaster would just work better as a hero talent

sullen dawn
#

It's just an example

rain cave
#

or if they did it for arms

#

change charge to be a "illusion" style shadow step

sullen dawn
#

Glyphs dont need to contradict hero talents

rain cave
#

earth wind and fire could be baked into ravage maybe?

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or whatever it's called

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the spinning weapon

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but I think they could do a lot with a blademaster hero spec

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since arms is all about cleave already, they could make that a big fantasy part of the hero spec

glass flicker
#

I don't know what y'all are talking about, I just want different weapon trail effects and color options.

rain cave
#

splitting into the clones

sullen dawn
glass flicker
#

I don't like my Arms Warrior having an RGB of weapon trails. Overpower is brown, Slam and Mortal Strike are blue, Execute is bloody, Rend is red, Warbreaker is weird...?

#

I want more color consistency and that's it.

#

My rotation looks like a jar of Skittles.

sullen dawn
#

Yeh fury is better in that respect

glass flicker
#

But that would mean I'd have to play Fury.

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I don't want the carpal tunnel.

#

Oh, Colossus Execute is yellow.

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Blizzard, if I wanted my spec to have a dozen different colors, I would play an Enhancement Shaman. Please add weapon trail glyphs.

sullen dawn
rain cave
#

I've just realized that the tech used for player housing could be quite easily adapted into customisable armour pieces

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since it's client decided, server congruent and allows fine placement and unique colouring

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wouldn't surprise me if they launched some armour that can be customized in a similar way to player housing + dragonriding mounts

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even if it's limited at first

dense plover
#

this is a true misunderstanding of how armor works

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armor has to be manually fitted to each skeleton

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also, objects are not stored in the character data like armor is

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and changing location is just co-ords in the world - not position on a moving model

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dragonriding mount armor is not in any way similar to the housing stuff

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its just multiple armor models as separate parts

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same as how a helm and chest piece are different pieces

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splitting armor into more pieces to allow for even that type of customization would be expensive computationally

glass flicker
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It's also partly why some order hall decorations weren't made into actual weapons or armors until recently with the Siren Isle.

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Primarily the Vrykul stuff. Things that have existed in the files since Wrath of the Lich King.

rain cave
#

the introduction of gimbal based placement unique to each "person" and being light enough for other players to load it, means we could, for example. Get a system where you can add "attachments" like a book or something to your hip, or resizing pauldrons

#

the dye UI and systems could be used for an armour set with multiple colour options

glass flicker
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A dye system would kind or invalidate difficulty settings for dungeons and raids, since they award recolors.

upper pasture
glass flicker
upper pasture
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I’d much rather have a dye system than 4 recolors each major patch

glass flicker
#

Or, and hear me out on this one, add more cosmetic items to dungeons and raids. Remember when Mists of Tirna Scithe awarded a flower crown? Yeah, that.

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You won't need a dye system if you're simply awarded cosmetics.

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It would also enforce raiding, since dressing up your Barbie doll is the ultimate endgame of WoW.

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"Oh but RNG"
Nah, make it a completion thing.

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Kill a boss, get a cosmetic. No RNG involved.

#

I, for one, would've been glad for a pompons fist weapons transmog from the Liberation of Undermine, for instance.

#

Just go Lollypop Chainsaw on Gallywix's ass.

pulsar minnow
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Maybe I’m putting on too much of a tinfoil hat, so take this with a grain of salt. Regarding the armor dye idea - has anyone noticed the devs recent effort in making matching color palettes for recent tier sets?

For instance Paladin tiers from Abberus, Amirdrassil, and Undermine match almost perfectly with one another.

It almost feels like these sets would’ve just been apart of a dye system as well

glass flicker
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It feels to me that they want people to engage with the transmog system without using full sets, and that's awesome.

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You know, without clipping issues and shade differences that trigger your OCD.

rain cave
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I don't think dye system would be rolled out to all armour

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more like how we have the customizable mounts rn

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but not all are

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so maybe instead of our patch open world sets, we get a custom season world set

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that we unlock bits for

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so say we have an exhibition focused patch in TLT, trying to gather a lot of the support of the various tuskarr, trolls, undead, nerubians etc

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and so we'd have an adventurer style set and maybe you can unlock trinkets and stuff

glass flicker
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See, that would work. But for raiding, dungeons, and open world sets? Unlikely.

rain cave
#

maybe even fitting it into delves would work?

#

instead of a seasonal mount

glass flicker
#

A seasonal set awarded by completing the campaign for every patch, however? With a dye system tied to it? Awesome.

#

We don't have a canonical Champion of Azeroth transmog, so that could be it, with color variants every patch.

#

Maybe we could even have a quest NPC give that set to us, like Tataru in FFXIV.

sullen dawn
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Maybe make some slight difference to the set as it goes up in difficulty

glass flicker
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And then what would be the point of running harder content?

sullen dawn
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Like it gets more elaborate

sullen dawn
#

And I just suggested they can still change the visuals per difficulty

glass flicker
#

That's so temporary, 60% of the playerbase doesn't even bother.

sullen dawn
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Yeh cos mythic raiders are doing it for the mog

ember blaze
sullen dawn
ember blaze
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yes

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all these color drops clog up your options so much 🛌

sullen dawn
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Could work. Id rather not restrict people. I think they could have a base version of the set at lfr and just add some doo dads up to heroic

ember blaze
#

and then you got the weird items that look exactly the same, but show up as different items

sullen dawn
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I totally agree with the need fkr dyeing btw

ember blaze
#

sure you can dye them whatever other color, but if they want to stick with something that always worked for 20 years

sullen dawn
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"Its always been that way" isnt a good reason to keep something that way

ember blaze
#

sometimes it's, "if it aint broke, don't fix it"

sullen dawn
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I never liked that expression

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There's always improvements to be made

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Infinite potential abounds

glass flicker
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Well, if they add a dye system, I think it should work only for secondary colors. Say, for example, if the new raid set is blue and white on normal, purple and yellow on heroic, gray and white on mythic, you should be able to change the latter option but not the former, so the difficulty setting of the raid still holds significance.

sullen dawn
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I say open up all the colours. The harder difficulty can have little extras (like theg started doing with a bonus VFX on mythic version)

glass flicker
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I don't know, it would kinda just remove the point in raiding completely, imho.

#

I don't raid unless I like the transmog, and even then, most of the pieces I get are from the catalyst.

clear apex
#

Having dyes as rewards for some content would be nice. ESO works that way and I think ff14.
Like a cool chromatic dye for a raid

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Basic colors like black, red, etc could simply be bought from a vendor

glass flicker
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The dye system would work if all raids awarded a single armor for every class, and let difficulty settings not be cosmetic. That doesn't sound like content I'd enjoy outside of mount farming.

clear apex
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I forgot who mentioned it, maybe Lehr? if we went back to how different difficulty rewarded different sets, not just 1 set with a recolor. Like how it was in WoD

#

though I dont raid really, but with the new warlock set for 11.0, id love to dye that instead of try to get it later for the color i want

#

or even how pvp sets have 2 different versions

glass flicker
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It's bad enough that people don't want to raid because the system is tailored towards the 1% and casual players can't get far enough without addons. Removing all cosmetic recolors from the raid sets would make them even more pointless as a form of content, at least in my opinion.

clear apex
#

but idk, getting one set but someone who did mythic gets this ultra awesome "blue chrome reflective color change in the light" dye would be something

#

isnt that what it rather is anyways? If you want black version you need mythic. If you want the green you need raid finder. There's really not a lot of difference between any aside from mythic where you maybe get this glow on your shoulders

glass flicker
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If anything, cosmetic sets with dyes could be campaign rewards or solo challenges, for like Mage Tower stuff.

clear apex
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They could still give mythic the most awesome set with glowy bits plus a rare dye

#

that, to me is way more interesting than just.. glowy shoulders

glass flicker
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That'd then feel like gatekeeping dyes that could perhaps look better on the lower difficulty version of the armor.

clear apex
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As for campaign rewards, they could also do achievements.
"Going down" could give you a nice cloudy blue-grey

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250 (?) mounts gives you a matching fel green for that bird you get

sullen dawn
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Basically the set becomes more "elaborate" as you so higher difficulties, but colours are open to all via dyes at vendor

rain cave
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so most sets have an energy on them nowadays, as well as metallics

pulsar minnow
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Tbh I much prefer just getting the special effects at gilded crest level over armor that just becomes more elaborate

rain cave
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if they wanted to go all out they could maybe make it so that you can recolour the base matte part of the set freely

pulsar minnow
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The days of having the mythic tier be the real tier set sucked. Made everything below it feel bad

rain cave
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but higher difficulties unlock new metallic colours and energy gradients

rain cave
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they fixed that now though where the mythic VFX can go on the lower tier ones

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but imagine if they released a shadowflame BRF mythic colour

sullen dawn
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It could just be extra VFX

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Then theyre free to let everyone have all colours

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While still retaining "prestige" for high tier versions of sets

pulsar minnow
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Well yeah. They’re kinda already doing that though with the season hero effects.

sullen dawn
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And if introduced what would that mean for raid recolours

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So my suggestion ks double down on the effects and remove colour differences from raid difficulties. Let people colour them however they want

pulsar minnow
deep pawn
#

So what do you guys think is behind no class changes in 11.1.5? Team mostly moved to Midnight?

sullen dawn
dense plover
deep pawn
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Never stopped them before. This is the first patch in a long time that has none

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They don't have time to test a bunch on major patches while testing new content which is why they usually spread them out

warm topaz
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or 11.0.7

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i'm wrong 11.0.5 was the Dark Ranger rework

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maybe 11.0.7? or maybe it's just a deja vu

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yeah, there were not class changes on 11.0.7

deep pawn
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And even that felt odd. So they're doing something different this time and it just feels weird

sullen dawn
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Not to me

deep pawn
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Big changes mid season are usually preferred to not disrupt races too much

sullen dawn
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Coming tomorrow

deep pawn
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Tuning doesn't equal the normal class changes you see every patch

sullen dawn
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Meh

deep pawn
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oh look, patch date confirmed?

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YEP

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the guild name thing is a patch change and we have date when that's coming

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I mean 4/22 was always the most likely date

zealous sedge
#

Random thought popped into my head driving around doing errands today. What if 11.2 still has Karesh elements because the Ethereal are trying to steal the world tree or atleast the life essence of the roots to revitalize their world? I know people would probably be irritated because I’ve heard people want like a full Ethereal expansion but it could be an interesting concept?

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It’s probably crazy and I have nothing to back it up. It could be possible that they use the dark heart to absorb the life essence of the tree?

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Or they absorb Karesh energy and try to implant it into the roots like a “womb” to bring about a new home world for them. Idk just spitballing.

rain cave
zealous sedge
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Or like they literally want the power of the roots to literally connect the millions of pieces their planet has become

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Tbh 11.2 might just be something out of left field in terms of the threat. Like yeah we saw the scene at the end of Undermine but that could be a red herring because it’s basically out of our control for now. As long as it is out of Xal’s hands the player doesn’t have to really worry about it. I could see an 11.2.5 or .7 patch with Locus Walker and Alleria addressing whatever is happening on Karesh.

rain cave
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I mean this patchs story was very ethereal heavy, but wasn't ethereal overall. So they could definetly still do rootlands and have ethereals present

zealous sedge
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Totally agree with that

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I think a conflict between ethereal and root lands would be great

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And honestly perfect lead up

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And tbh I feel like the manifold has a big part to play. I feel like there is an actual “highway” underneath Azeroth that actually connects all the titan constructs. Also I think the well of eternity was a titan construct in origin.

glass flicker
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New Warbreaker is great, but I miss the ground shatter.

deep pawn
deep pawn
worn crown
zealous sedge
sullen dawn
#

Lesssssgo K'aresh baby

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Rootlands 💩

lyric heart
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I’m so curious about where they’re going with the story. The ethereals stealing the dark heart and Gallywix not realizing they weren’t with Xal was a great twist (but I personally didn’t believe for a second that they were working with her.)

harsh mason
lyric heart
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I get that and understand why it looked that way, but to me it didn’t make sense. Why would she ask Gallywix to fix the dark heart but then had ethereals attacking people? I could see them maybe intimidating his crew, but straight up attacking people? I know she’s evil and more than a little pissed, but it just didn’t seem like something she’d do.

silent urchin
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I'm pretty sure gallywix realised they weren't with Xal, he was just trying to make an excuse as to why losing it wasn't his fault

lyric heart
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I could see him pulling something like that

rain cave
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I mean to his knowledge nobody even knew he had it other than xal and his group

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we didn't even know until right before it got taken away

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the ethereals knew because they know what xalatath wants to do probably. (also their intel is just better)

lyric heart
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Those dang ethereals

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I think phase thief azir is going to be one of my new favorite characters. The voice acting was top tier, especially when he said, “my apologies” in that weird voice

rain cave
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hope he gets some form of unique model

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to make him stick out a bit more

lyric heart
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Same. I would like to see ethereals become a playable race

sullen dawn
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But he has a good position in the story ill agree

sullen dawn
lyric heart
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I discovered in this expansion that I’m a sucker for good voice acting. I think that’s half the reason why I love Xal’atath so much

sullen dawn
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Its all really "pensive/try-too-hard-to-be-evil"

lyric heart
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To each their own

sullen dawn
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I prefer the more grounded stuff like Jainas mum is BFA

lyric heart
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She was good

sullen dawn
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Or really most voice acting/characters in BFA tbh

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Talanji and Rastakhan were awesome also

lyric heart
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All I know is Xal is whispering to me as I level through legion, and I want more lol

sullen dawn
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Hehe

rain cave
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I like xal because she is such a perfect longform cosmic character on a mortal scale

lyric heart
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She really is

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And I like that she’s not infallible

rain cave
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her story sort of accidentally falls into place really well

lyric heart
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I’m going to be sad when she turns into a giant monster

rain cave
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and if anything I think that makes it better because you know damn well that if we'd done something similar to another cursed artifact we'd also be having some drama like this, just so happened that was really the wrong person to let out of a blade

rain cave
lyric heart
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I hope not

rain cave
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I'm hoping for a final phase where she literally jumps into the players bodies trying to get a host

#

out of desperation

lyric heart
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Honestly there’s part of me that kind of hopes she’s doing all of this for the right reason but in the wrong way

rain cave
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I'm also not convinced we kill her

lyric heart
#

I’m not either

rain cave
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because we'd have to kill her in the void realm, and she knows that

lyric heart
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And I hope we’re going to have to ally with her at some point.

rain cave
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I don't think she'd literally be caught dead like that unless we caught and banished her in a trap

lyric heart
#

No one should ever kill void mommy

rain cave
lyric heart
#

True

rain cave
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someone had a theory that she's prepping alleria as her next host, and her using a disguise to trick her into doing something would not surprise me

lyric heart
#

I don’t think alleria is safe from going to Xal’s side

rain cave
#

I don't think turalyon is making it out of midnight alive

lyric heart
#

And I think something is up with Kadghar

#

This trilogy is going to change everything, and I’m here for it

rain cave
#

I'm hoping we get a new "A team"

#

instead of just thrall and jaina with anduin and kadghar

#

Arator, Lillian maybe?

#

perhaps tess, and thralls son

#

I get they'll want to keep marketing characters around but imo we should get a new main cast so that when the old one are brought out it actually has impact

lyric heart
#

A new A team could be cool

rain cave
#

I feel faerin is part

lyric heart
#

I hope she is.

tropic trail
lyric heart
#

The way he said “this isn’t the real fight” the second time was hella creepy. It’s possible it was Xal’atath saying it bc she was present in that first scene, but I have my suspicions. He was in the void for a while too

#

I think he’s still Kadghar and not Xal in disguise, but I wouldn’t be surprised if something happened

tropic trail
#

Maybe this whole expansion is like we live in some void vision and chase false enemies while Xal’atath is doing real job on the side lol

lyric heart
#

This is all her simulation

tropic trail
#

Yea it’s possible you could see what N’Zoth could do

#

I will laugh we out of sudden gonna get a nice plot twist

lyric heart
#

The whole thing is a plot twist tbh

tropic trail
#

Like all we see is gonna fall apart like curtain .. you know and then see what’s real, Algalon fighting Dimensius , like “hey guys what you looking at wanna help some?!”

#

😂

#

Already here I noticed there was something off with these pillars

IMG_0013.jpg
harsh mason
#

Moreover, we were shown earlier that the ethereals were in the place where Xal and the dark heart had been. We have exactly 0 reasons to think that they are not cooperating, given that Shadowguard is on the Void side.