beta-ptr-spoilers

[ember blaze]

i mean i remember on launch i was watching one of the paid streamers, and they couldnt figure it out either

[last wren]

To click what exactly? You lost me there

[ember blaze]

quest objectives 🤔

[last wren]

Ahh

[ember blaze]

and even now, i find myself having to google some quests because theyre too unclear sometimes

[last wren]

Me too tbh

[zealous sedge]

everyones used to smart phones and how intuitive they are. WoW is too complex to be that intuitive

[ember blaze]

and the only thing in my mind is why is this quest making me frustrated

[last wren]

Ig yeah

[ember blaze]

why do i need to go on google to look it up to do it

[sullen dawn]

remember thottbot

[ember blaze]

no im not that old

[last wren]

Yeah I agree, I remember being so frustrated lmao

[sullen dawn]

😦

now i feel old

[last wren]

I'm 20-

[ember blaze]

i started this game in legion

7.3

[last wren]

I think I started to play a little bit ok dad's account in cata

Then kinda stared to play more in start of Legion

Saw dh at launch

[sullen dawn]

oh i started in vanilla

[last wren]

And now dad's account is mine- lol

My dad started bc

Oops

[ember blaze]

neeeeeed ethereal playable race

[iron hare]

I started this game in cata

And I'm 21

My dad used to play

[last wren]

Neeed void elf hair for belf

[iron hare]

I was always rllly bad at it (and still am) but I've learned to just kind of vibe

Run my own pugs etc

[last wren]

Yeah kind of same with me, next season I'll to do really high keys as tank if I can

[iron hare]

I just kind of stay in the 4-6 range

I run keys for fun mainly

Not for progression

[last wren]

Yeah I feel you

[iron hare]

I'd like to kill heroic queen but

People are dumb

[last wren]

Lol

[iron hare]

A guild inv me but they're like

[zealous sedge]

i should probably complete delve journey

[iron hare]

"You have to use dbm and be a lil better" and like

I don't wanna do all that

[ember blaze]

yeah, same. I just stick to the 10 range after giving up on caring for title

[last wren]

My dad and I are pretty much the same, I remember him telling bc he killed lich king back in the day haha, I was doing homework. My reaction when I heard him yell was "oh he killed lich king"

[iron hare]

I'm prolly the only one excited for mythic + s2

[ember blaze]

why not? dbm or bigwigs isnt that big of an ask

[iron hare]

Cause I don't wanna download stuff

They were nice and all but I'm just a solo player ig

[ember blaze]

yeah but youre stepping into raids and keys 😂

[iron hare]

Ok so?

[ember blaze]

like you can definitely play without it i guess

[iron hare]

Im 7/8 h

And I'm a really good popper

[ember blaze]

its just on wow sometimes not having some things be too cleart without it

like i cant imagine playing a healer that has to prep without being able to properly track timers

[last wren]

Anyway, I'll go to bed it's getting late here, have a good night/day idk

[ember blaze]

👋

[iron hare]

Lol I play disc priest too

Idk I'm just traditional

[ember blaze]

and sometimes it helps with doing mechanics

like marking u

[iron hare]

I like being stressed out

[ember blaze]

😂

did blizz scrap removing flying kick from monks 🤔

wheres the plunderstorm empower ability

[iron hare]

Also I looked at some videos

Undermine looks so good

[deep pawn]

How do you know which egg to pop in Ovinax

[ember blaze]

nvm found it. its a talent 😂

aimed shot should have been an empower 😡

[iron hare]

I looked up a guide and I remember

Study

[deep pawn]

If the rest of your guild doesn't do that it must cause overlaps a lot

[iron hare]

I pug

I don't raid with my guild

They offered but I don't sign up

I don't rlly like voice chatting, I had some bad experiences in legion where I wasn't good enough, it was a lil humilating but like I understood it

The guild leader liked me but the alt one was like a hardcore player and he did not like me 😂😂

[iron hare]

Pugs i raid lead and I ping the eggs, it usually goes dosn a couple tries if I find the right people

[sullen dawn]

Yeh pinging system has been a great help for reducing addon need (at least the whole group doesn't need it) on normal and heroic at least

[silent urchin]

only once for knowledge respec, it seems

[harsh mason]

And so his mecha has a new robot skeleton and a cool customspell
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/npc=232131/chrome-king-gallywix#modelviewer

[harsh mason]

By the way, Gall has 3 phases and 2 intermissions, so it's likely to be a 12-15 minute fight again.

Sorry, even 3 intermissions 🗿

[last wren]

Oh damn

[pulsar minnow]

not sure if its been mentioned yet. But yeah, theyre definitely setting up an ethereal patch

[silent urchin]

I mean, given what happens in the cutscene placeholders..

[uncut vault]

just wait until the actual zone haha

there's a reason we got new ethereal models this patch

[silent urchin]

cutscene placeholders (major spoilers): ||"Animated Real-Time Cutscene (ARTC)", "11.1 [DHS] Dark Heart Stolen", "", "While we fought Gallywix's guards, he was preparing a teleporter", "to leave Undermine with the Dark Heart in hand.", "", "We kill his guards, but he grabs the Dark Heart, triumphant.", "", "Gallywix exchanges heated words with Gazlowe", "while Gazlowe tries one final time to make Gallywix see reason.", "", "Suddenly, Phase-Thief Azir appears behind Gallywix", "and snatches the Dark Heart from his hand before teleporting away.", "", "Enraged, Gallywix hurls insults at Gazlowe before leaving by himself,", "destroying the teleporter behind him as he leaves.", "", "Gazlowe, Renzik, and Alleria are dismayed and frustrated,", "but at least Gallywix's plans have been thwarted for now." "11.1 Gallywix Calls for Xal'atath", "", "Gallywix is cornered! Desperate, he calls upon", "Xal'atath for aid! She appears and looks upon the player.", "", "Xal'atath asks for the Dark Heart, which Gallywix doesn't have.", "", "Xal'atath denies Gallywix assistance and says she'll", "enjoy watching him fall to the player and friends.", "", "Gallywix has no choice but to flee into his casino!"||

[pulsar minnow]

oh huh. i missed those

probably a dumb question but I really wonder if the ethereals are working for dimensius, xal, or a third party. I feel like its probably the third party no? These arent the void infused etherals like what we saw on Argus

[silent urchin]

presumably ethereals are still largely anti-void given their history, although who knows, I think this guy is new so could have any motivation

most of them are just trying to survive in some way

seems unlikely to be working with xal, at least

[pulsar minnow]

yeah. but we've also seen plenty ethereals buddy up with xal

[silent urchin]

placeholders often leave out important details

[uncut vault]

Theyre working for xal'atath, at least ostensibly

[pulsar minnow]

because the alternative would be xal had the heart stolen so she didnt have to help gallywix

[uncut vault]

she gets impatient with gallywix taking so long, and sends them to collect the dark heart

[silent urchin]

Ah, fair enough. Explains why she doesn't sound that put out by gallywix no longer having it

[sleek solar]

Those little things are why I love WoW

[tropic trail]

Hamburger

[deep pawn]

So Gallywix just repairs the heart and feeds it some extra dark blood? There's been worse motivations haha

I still don't think we're having an ethereal raid yet unless they have an entire city near the worldsoul

[harsh mason]

He was still using the black blood to his advantage and pumping it into his new technologies and weapons, so this was his way of hedging his bets.

So even now, without Xal's support, he still has an arsenal and an army armed with weapons and equipment powered by black blood)

[deep pawn]

yeah, but I'm trying to see how it's main plot relevant

[harsh mason]

He literally has a mech in the style of mechs from the Pacific Rim lol

[deep pawn]

It's a bit stretched, but they wanted underground raids and goblins somehow.

[harsh mason]

There doesn't have to be a direct connection to the main plot. We have Ulduar, who had nothing to do with the Lich King. There is a connection with black blood, which was identified as the central theme during the announcement. The Nerubians used it in their experiments for Ascension, Gall for their own purposes. All this is combined into a common plot with Xal

[uncut vault]

Only real main plot relevant parts are Xal'atath getting the Dark Heart fixed, and ethereals popping up more as her stooges

the rest is "filler" in regards to the main plot of TWW and the saga

but unlike a patch like 10.1, the non-relevant plot of the patch is actually good haha

and they save the important Xal'atath reveals for the end of the zone story, instead of showing it all in the first chapter and leaving the rest as plot that doesn't particularly matter to anything

[deep pawn]

I know, I was just working it out verbally haha.

we've had flimsier connections

[uncut vault]

Main thing I need to see is the two xal’atath scenes to see how it pieces together

Based on the description, it seems like this all stemmed from Alleria breaking the dark heart, and her suddenly needing a quick fix to keep her plans on track

[deep pawn]

At least goblins can likely carry a plot better than yet another black dragon lab.

[uncut vault]

Hence the impatience

[deep pawn]

11.2 better be Roothome

[clear apex]

I wanna see where the haranir live and get them as allied race

Hopefully there will be more unique custom npcs we haven't seen yet since they've been limited interaction

[iron hare]

im v excited for rootlands

razorfend downs meets ungoro crater kind of vibe sounds really cool

[sullen dawn]

im just glad we got undermine finally

don't really care if it's tied to the main story

[iron hare]

yeah undermine is very dope i love how funny goblins are

besides im sure it will have a bigger story connection, Ion said "this patch is important" in big bold letters

[deep pawn]

it is important cause it fixes the heart, basically undoing the climax of 11.0

I'm still betting on the dark heart being dropped into the Sunwell opening a direct portal to the Void.

[uncut vault]

Not sure if I like this, it doesn't really feel much like a lightning bolt anymore lol

[thin warren]

You want an orb? 😛

[silent urchin]

new build maybe?

Delve/world activity vault tier going to 3/6/12 seems a bit shit

[upper pasture]

Huh, I thought they were decreasing it? Lame

[iron hare]

"This changes nothing" - xal'atath

[deep pawn]

I called it static magic missile. I don't like it for lightning bolt either

[silent urchin]

Ok now it's saying 2/4/8 again? I'm confused. Maybe they hotfixed specifically that?

oh we're back on season 1 apparently

[deep pawn]

3/6/12 likely matches their time investment goals better, but only getting 4-5 bountiful keys a week sucks.

2/4/8 was perfect to me.

[upper pasture]

1/3/6 would be cool, I just hate the idea of needing to do 4 more after doing 4. But I’m also trying to minmax vault rewards so I’d rather do another 4 on an alt than do 4 more for another slot

2/4/6 would be cool too

[ember blaze]

all activities should match raid row

also shouldnt kalecgos eyes be glowing on this questline 🤔

[cinder sable]

@serene marsh https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/npc=237817/nostwin

new vendor?)

[rose escarp]

He was – in various forms – part of Remix, so could just be a way to buy those specific items during Mists Timewalking?

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1877205368570319214?t=UhRiglAFqCnaM0Qj3QdYNA&s=33

Algalon, Enigmatic Observer (@algalon_ghost) on X

New #Warcraft build found:
Vendor 4 (wowv4)🔐: 1.15.6.58462 --> 3.4.3.58528

Found at: 01-09-2025@04:06:50 UTC

Twitter · Jan 9, 2025, 4:06 AM

interesting

[tulip sun]

What is that

[warm topaz]

they changed phase 6 (or 7 I don't remember) for WOTLK

[harsh mason]

I am very interested in violet dragons, who are they? I mean, I don't remember that there was any information about them.
I know that this particular whelp is a reference.

[ruby galleon]

Anybody that deals with the wowhead addon looter ? been using it in the new dungeon and uploading but I don't think the addon is up to date ?

[little hound]

What amount of Player housing I want in Midnight:

[hard pagoda]

gotta say Blizzard has made good job for blocking most roofs etc (if you try to climb to the highest spot)

[rain cave]

looks better than before, since it used to just be a line

my guess is they made it like that because people liked the old spell effect of it being a projectile more than the low res line/trail thing they used in legion

might play shaman now just because of that 1 change lmao

though it should maybe be a glyph to have the old one

but then again that has functionality differences so

[uncut vault]

I mean that’s… what lightning looks like haha

This just looks like a frostbolt with some sparks

[clear apex]

I think the new one looks more realistic than the low res blue ribbon

Wish they'd rework some warlock spells

*visuals

[hard pagoda]

probably highest point I can get

[rain cave]

depends how you view it

[harsh mason]

I just found out that there is a room in Dornogal where Milhouse plays hearthstone with Valeera

Milhouse without clothes🗿

[upper pasture]

and he "doesn't want to talk about it"

[deep pawn]

I hate the tesla coil sounds too

I prefer current LB

[rain cave]

that's why I think it should be a glyph or something

I like the new one because the current LB just looks too flat to me, to my eye it just doesn't look up to par with other spell effects

it's very evidently just a flat texture, it's not flashy/glowy, it stretches awkwardly and the resolution is low

the way it clips into the hands of some races is awful

but if they just touched it up it could be better, but I still conceptually like throwing balls of lightning at people

it harkens back to the original lightning bolt from classic/ prelegion

[deep pawn]

The flat texture is fine to me, lightning isn't exactly 3d

classic LB was a recolored wrath which sucks

[rain cave]

I liked it a lot :p

felt like it had more impact to me

and the flatness of it specifically is an issue to me because of how bad it works with some races

like draenei female for example

they do a "pull back" with their hand and it moves the whole thing

[deep pawn]

it never felt bad to me on troll and it looks better with mastery

the new one sucks so much with mastery

[rain cave]

basically if you do it on draenei, their hand moving makes the whole flat texture move

like a lasso

so it breaks the illusion because it literally just looks like a flat object connecting the two rather than a beam of lightning

[rain cave]

I'd have thought it would look sick

[deep pawn]

I don't

[rain cave]

I just saw a vid of it and I think it looks baller

but fair enough I'm seeing a split

some people want it to be realistic like actual lightning, not a projectile

I feel chain lightning does that well as a visual

but they should make it an option

[deep pawn]

Lightning bolts aren't a projectile

[pulsar minnow]

I mean if we’re going with fantasy, throwing lightning bolts isn’t out of the ordinary

[deep pawn]

my biggest issue is the static sound though.

[deep pawn]

I think it looks silly and dated and a bit Disney.

if it was just a single lightning "bolt" being thrown like a javelin

but that's not what the PTR visual is

[sleek solar]

I like the new lightning bolt

[deep pawn]

I can be a bit change averse when it's replacing the spell effect entirely.

They should have just uprezzed the pixels.

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I don’t even know what it means when people call stuff “Disney” anymore

It’s kind of lost its meaning

[deep pawn]

When I think of throwing a lightning bolt I think of Zeus from Disney's Hercules.

[pulsar minnow]

https://static0.gamerantimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Lightning-Spear-in-Elden-Ring-(1).jpg

I think Elden Ring

To each their own

[deep pawn]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/95/54/86955426650425dabe8d5eacf4749c9d.png

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlezMd7_axkfScrRH-0UBX_lB5Sy5x7mF1e_noBUHFz9gSeFpiXbv8kmR07vqe6klMef0&usqp=CAU

and this Cassia Skin

Either way I associate it with Greek/Disney aesthetics.

but that's still not what the static magic missile is on the ptr

at least lightning rod still exists.

[clear apex]

That's not a Disney thing that's been in cartoons forever

[rain cave]

they don't fly out of peoples hands either :P

[deep pawn]

I like the idea the target and the caster are the polarity points for the lightning bolt.

[rain cave]

also yeah that like zeus icoinography of the bolt being a projectile is what I like

[rain cave]

I do agree they should play with polarity more

I feel the "magnetic" part of being able to control earth and electricity isn't played enough

would be cool if there was a playstyle that allowed you to build up grounded/static charge and explode it

ik earth shock was kinda meant to be that? but ES was never really that flashy, and isn't electric

[deep pawn]

the new LB pulls from the ground and shoots at the target, but I don't like that for LB

[rain cave]

wdym pulls from the ground?

it uses the normal racial cast not the shaman specific one on the vid I saw

[deep pawn]

the cast animation

you're literally pulling lightning from the ground

I think it looks stupid for "Lightning Bolt"

another spell sure

[rain cave]

the ground pull animation is the shaman cast animation ye

like lava bolt

but that wasn't happening on the vid I watched it was just the normal one

[deep pawn]

maybe the video wasn't very high particle effect

I also think the origin point being so far in front of you looks a tad odd

I just feel like I'm firing off a tesla coil gun instead of a LB

it's possible they've already updated it

[rain cave]

are you sure you're not just reading it as the lightning arcing to the ground?

or does that bit literally come from ground first and move to your hands

[deep pawn]

nah, during the cast it flows up to your hands

[potent talon]

Which dps class yall think gonna be busted

enh shaman still?

[deep pawn]

or at least feels like it flows up

[iron hare]

I miss the vanilla lighting bolt

[deep pawn]

I can't say I do after having played classic again

[iron hare]

Idk there's just something about it lol

But I don't like the new one even though I'm not a shaman

[rain cave]

the fact it's so split means it should be a glyph regardless

ones not better than the other

[uncut vault]

Issue is that the new one changes the ability, it's slightly nerfed due to the travel time of the new visual

glyph wouldn't work because it wouldn't match the damage effect one way or the other

[rain cave]

ik

also the issue of reactivity in things like PvP

maybe make it a talent option?

like how spriest has the cascade option?

projectile vs instant lightning bolt

the dps change is pretty insignificant and if anything it can be a positive in some circumstances

since you can pop things before it lands

it's a sidegrade

[ember blaze]

or... they could have improved the visuals

[rain cave]

ye that's what the new one is

but clearly some people prefer the "style" of the older one

regardless of if it's high res or not

[ember blaze]

well its more of a rework than a visual update

[rain cave]

I LOVE lightning bolt being a projectile and evidently a lot of others do as well

but I've also seen equally as many questioning it

so it's a marmite change

[ember blaze]

idk i think its better to have a unique visual like lightning in this game

[rain cave]

but I genuinely might play shaman if that goes live

[ember blaze]

that isnt yet another projectile ball that every class has

[rain cave]

I think that it does look unique

and shaman does have chain lightning, which is a phenomenal example of that type of visual

[ember blaze]

zapping people is cool, and mastery made it cooler

[rain cave]

honestly chain lightning should be the single target style for lightning bolt

[rain cave]

I disliked how mastery looked with the current lightning bolt

to my eyes I just see a bunch of flat 2 planes spawning

[ember blaze]

yes and it should have been an update like drain soul

[rain cave]

because I know how game art works

and to me it just breaks the illusion

[ember blaze]

u dont make drain soul into a projectile ball, you update the draining visual

[rain cave]

yeah but shadowbolt also exists

[ember blaze]

and it no longer looks as shit as it did in classic

[rain cave]

shadowbolt is there for people who don't want drain soul conceptually

[ember blaze]

yeah but my point is that drain soul didnt get reworked into something else entirely

[rain cave]

I mean this isn't really

it's a projectile now which is a minor functionality difference for 99% of the time

it's primarily a visual thing

it's clear they felt people wanted it to be a projectile again, but that might have been a sort of "people who already liked it didn't complain" effect. But I'd say there's been enough of a marmite effect from waht I've seen they should keep both

but for me the projectile is legitimately a good enough change to get me to want to play shaman again because I absolutely hated out unsatisfying and immersion breaking the lightning bolt vfx was

DK had a similar issue for me, where frost strike started using racial animations after a change in SL and it made me stop playing DK

[deep pawn]

I highly doubt they felt players cared one way or another

The artists are updating stuff they are passionate about

Gonna be one of those "But you guys liked the lava burst update"

yeah cause you didn't change the basis of the damn effect

[rain cave]

you could argue this is them undoing this though

since lightning bolt was originally a projectile

[ember blaze]

damn how about we get a pass for everyone instead

[rain cave]

better for them to do stuff they're passionate about imo

produces more interesting art

also no other class really needs spell vfx stuff I think

even if they missed the mark with ascendancy it did need an update

there's a laundry list of personal things I'd love them to add as glyphs

like something in the style of old chaos bolt

[ember blaze]

i think theres a few

like rogues and hunters

hunters look like npcs repeating one action as a simple auto attack

seen some complaints from rogues as well and how unspired their hero talents seem\

like if the best u got is a random coin you poop randomly, then eh

[rain cave]

the coin flip stuff could have been really flashy

rogues used to have death from above!

they do not have to be a boring class animation wise

I feel like rogue in general could use a bunch of new animations just to make the class flow a bit better

as much as I love the jankiness of blade dance or w/e it's called where you blink around

they did quite a good job with making the core rogue flow in HotS with valeera, and her ambush stuff isn't a big lunge like in WoW it's a slick double dagger slash

would be a decent chunk of work but if rogues had that sort of monk flow with their animations, getting some unique ones for a couple different abilities I think it could vastly improve their gamefeel

[deep pawn]

I just wish I didn't feel like the new LB was ruining the visuals of ele, the sound is by far the worst part though

[rain cave]

this is why they should try make it a glyph

because from a technical stand point, the old one is still ok

it's from the same era as basically ever other caster

[deep pawn]

eh, nah

they scrapped a legion attempt to change LB

Got a head canon for why the new LB starts so far in front of the char

it's a spell effect from a scrapped tinker idea that used a coil gun.

Before they swapped to radiant song bard.

[rain cave]

https://youtu.be/-sLai79eAsY

this is the cleanest video of it I've seen

seems like it isn't comiong out of the ground in this so maybe that's just a bug for troll?

some people are suggesting making the projectile a bit faster

[harsh mason]

Well, actually the new LB looks better. He has more effects, and it's LB, not a jet of electricity (which was similar to another skill)

[deep pawn]

The ground effect is actually clearer on Draenei, I dunno, just feels weird.

[deep pawn]

It's a fine spell effect, better? I don't know. It feels like it belongs to a different spell

[deep pawn]

Has there been any datamining on new trading post rewards beyond the bandit masks?

The turtle shells feel more like a zone reward

[ember blaze]

speaking of datamining, anything juicy about tinkers/bards

[deep pawn]

I already said how I think the way the new LB graphic originates so far in front of the caster that it was gonna be a coil gun effect for a tinker but got abandoned for radiant song bard.

[sleek solar]

Imo it looks soooo gooddddd

[sleek solar]

I dont think we will until at least Midnight

[sullen dawn]

Nope. Try again in 2 years

Deep into midnight we might see some early hints

[harsh mason]

Why did anyone decide that there would be a tinker/bard at all?🗿

[rain cave]

I agree, but some people dislike it

[harsh mason]

So it can say generally about anything).
However, now it's exactly the real lightning bolt with pretty good effects.

And not just a jet of lightning, which looks like just a scaled-down copy of another shaman's ability.

[sullen dawn]

tinker yes, bard no

and imo the new lighting bolt looks great

[rain cave]

it's just the fact that I've seen a much bigger marmite effect with this effect change since it's kind of splitting people who liked the old classic era projectile and people who like the new wave legion instant line thing

like fire mages get fireball updatd, they can appreciate it becuase it's still the same thing, a ball of fire

but there's been quite a big disagreement on the "fantasy" of lightning bolt

I like the new one, but the old one should be a glyph.

[deep pawn]

When are lightning bolts like the spell effect? It's only a bolt if you use the definition of a bolt spell from like EQ and I guess DnD. Actual lightning bolts are much more like the current one and lightning rod.

[rain cave]

https://youtu.be/MGpFEv1-mAo

[deep pawn]

Doesn't feel like a response to my issue when I literally think the current LB is more fun then the mage spell they want to give

[rain cave]

just saying that realism shouldn't be the centre of the argument xD

throwing "projectiles" of lightning is also a common thing in games

[deep pawn]

Yeah, but not for a truly nature based class calling on spirits and elementals.

[rain cave]

but yeah this is a pretty pointless argument to try and say one is better than the other when it's clear we have camps for both that are pretty large

we should just both be agreeing to try get blizz to make it a glyph option

win - win

[deep pawn]

I just think the new LB isn't shaman. It'd be great for tinkers or a new electrical mage spec.

[rain cave]

why isn't it shaman for you? out of curiosity

to me it fits that primal raw lightning feel

[deep pawn]

It doesn't feel "natural" enough, too fake, too artificial.

I feel like I'm shooting a tesla coil gun.

it's a bit "too much" in a way that natural electricity doesn't work.

[rain cave]

to me the old one looked too fake :p

[deep pawn]

I've seen a lot more lightning that looks like current LB than a jumbled ball of static.

[rain cave]

like to me this looks like something out of a zappy gun

[ivory meadow]

because it feels more like a lightning ball than a bolt

[rain cave]

whereas that looks like someone throwing a mini lightning storm at someone

to me, atleast

[deep pawn]

I just feel the opposite. Lightning doesn't look like the second in nature.

But I've never felt elemental shaman as "zeus."

At best I make a sith lord joke with chain lightning

[rain cave]

I mean "naturally" it looks like neither

[deep pawn]

Maybe I've seen too many positive cloud to ground lightning strikes which are a single line.

[rain cave]

I think chain lightning is the best for that

chain lightning is the best linebased effect I think we have in the game tbf

visually

[deep pawn]

I'm just gonna feel like this LB was designed for another class that got scrapped.

[rain cave]

doubt they'd ever do that

that's not how art production is done

especially since this was a non-asked change it seems

they wouldn't just change a random spell effect to a scrapped effect from another class with conflicting fantasies

there's a whole process of concepting and deisgning things to fit classes

[deep pawn]

Then why is the new LB looking like it's supposed to come from a gun in front of the caster

[rain cave]

this was probably from an internal art re-analysis where they went looking for effects that aren't fitting with their current/future art direction

[deep pawn]

It feels like they made an electric ability effect, didn't want to waste it so slapped it on shaman.

[rain cave]

doesn't look like that to me

[deep pawn]

That's literally where it originates for me that far in front, there's a puff of clouds or something

it's that far in front.

[rain cave]

nope

[deep pawn]

then maybe it's a bug for trolls cause it's never from my hands

[rain cave]

might just be an issue for troll?

[ivory meadow]

no, they're correct; i'm seeing that too on my shaman as well

[rain cave]

tis still PTR

[ivory meadow]

they're pandaren as well

[rain cave]

but that looks like a bug

since in other videos that's not happening on other races

[deep pawn]

But yeah, that jump in front is what makes me feel like it was designed for a coil gun first.

[sullen dawn]

Highly doubt that

[uncut vault]

this is more a bug with draenei than other races, I think

seems like its actually coming from her hand that's reaching backwards

the space is just so far that it looks like its from her front hand haha

[rain cave]

draenei?

that's a kultiran female xD

the main caster in the video is draenei though and also doesn't have the issue where it's coming from a void in front

so I think it's more that there's just some races it's not working on

if it turns out to be primarily horde races I will laugh

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1877850225823404353

Algalon, Enigmatic Observer (@algalon_ghost) on X

New #Warcraft build found:
Vendor 4 (wowv4)🔐: 3.4.3.58528 --> 1.15.6.58568

Found at: 01-10-2025@10:49:16 UTC

Twitter · Jan 10, 2025, 10:49 PM

they changed it back again from WOLK to SoD

[acoustic sparrow]

Hello

[tropic trail]

Unlimited powar 😆

[ember blaze]

way too long 😡

[deep pawn]

@ember blaze

hmmmmm

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/sips-tea-hmm-interesting-thebidofficial-gif-12929673626046504495

[glass flicker]

:(

Why can't they just make it an emote for all races? The rigging already exists.

[thin warren]

only goblins can look cool

[harsh mason]

Gnome have more aesthetic technology, goblins have more powerful

Well, in general, goblins have played a much bigger role in the world history of WoW, so goblins > gnomes

[rain cave]

It's more like gnomes have safer more reliable tech

They're about equal just that goblins are more chaotic so could be more or less effective

[sleek solar]

Gnomes have more advanced tech

I just LOVE Mekkatorque shittalking Gallywix

[glass flicker]

I love the "rivalry" they have going, even though Gallywix is incapable of building IKEA furniture by himself. Mekkatorque designs and builds everything he owns, Gallywix pays engineers to do his things.

[sullen dawn]

They hint in undermine quest that Gallywix used to be a pretty good engineer

[glass flicker]

If they reveal that he is the OG engineer of trikes or cars, I'm gonna lose it.

[sullen dawn]

😂

Whatever he made it's probably how he got his initial money then he went full trump mode

[glass flicker]

It must be something good, right? And assuming every goblin worth their macaroons has a trike, we can only assume it's that.

I see no one else get credit.

Okay, I could've worded that better.

[harsh mason]

Gall himself is also a good engineer, there is a mention of this in 11.1.

[uncut vault]

He is, it was more on BfA flanderizing him into a pure meme that got it wrong haha

[harsh mason]

It would be cool if the game hinted that he personally designed this robomech

[glass flicker]

I love that his bot has a cigar but the game deems it PG unfriendly to show the character himself smoke.

C'mon Blizz. Be brave.

If you remove the cigar from the model I'm legitimately never buying a store mount again.

[silent urchin]

I am sure they will consult you first before talking to ratings boards of various countries in future

[glass flicker]

They better.

[clear apex]

The game is rated T so...

I don't think we ever see people actually drink or smoke?

Maybe it's related to animations they don't want to do

One thing is in the usa the legal smoking age is 21 now so maybe that is the M category for the action of smoking

[unique oracle]

Hello, is there a way to boost a character to lvl 80 when you don't have a lvl 80 character on the PTR, going from 1 to 80 ?

[mortal owl]

Does anyone know if being Hated by Bilgewater Cartel (because I'm part-way through doing Insane) is going to impact reactions in Undermine?

[upper pasture]

They said that that won’t matter in the press release

[mortal owl]

Awesome! Thank you!1

[iron hare]

There's def been a few drunks

[ember blaze]

you can drink in game tho 🤔

[ember blaze]

I never realized this guy in bfa dual wielded guns. Tinker gunner confirmed 🤔

[glass flicker]

Bro is doing bullet ballet.

[harsh mason]

Bro fights this guns like clubs

[austere gazelle]

gnomes are more like those scientist who make group test control and many failsafe to assure security first
Goblins are those selling a defective product on the market by covering their ass with whatever legal loophole they can find as long as it looks cool and ( somehow ) effective

[little hound]

Tinker cope is huge

[sullen dawn]

It's because it's not cope

They're coming in TLT for sure (might be called artificer but either way we're getting the mech/gadget class soon)

[little hound]

Guess i'll believe it when i see it.

[ember blaze]

with a bard spec

🎸

[deep pawn]

I'd prefer Radiant Song bard over tinker at this point

[little hound]

[rain cave]

I feel like radiant song would only work enough for a hero spec not a full class

but idk

they've not fleshed it out enough whereas tinker has a lot of aesthetic and mechanical interest from years of lore buildup

[sullen dawn]

yeh tinker is the want

[ember blaze]

with a bard spec 🎸

[clear apex]

Why does bard need to be part of tinker at all?
What does engineering have to do with music and singing?

Unless you're building some amps and using electric guitars??

[rain cave]

Would be funny but I doubt they'd connect them lmao

[clear apex]

i think electric instruments, then like lutes/harps and then flutes as 3 specs would be pretty neat. but sounds like a lot of animations to work through

but the mog options would be amazing

or, electric, lute/harp/flute, then SINGER spec

[iron hare]

Goblins cover their ass with whatever legal loophole to make it ok with their people, gnomes just use dwarfs

[ember blaze]

cause if it's titan themed, then a bard will fit

[deep pawn]

really depends on how deep into the radiant song they lean

Though I much prefer the tank heal support only bard theme over tinker at this point.

A song tank would be rather novel.

[rain cave]

bard just doesn't feel very warcrafty to me from how it's described

idk how to explain it

if there's singing, would each race get unique vocals? would they get all the VA's in for that?
What weapons would they use? probably not a new type entirely, since we already have issues with weapons being spread thin

so would all instruments just be customisation options? but what if people want new ones?

would they need instruments if it's radiant song themed?

meanwhile tinker fits into niches we still need and are being set up

ranged tank, non-magic healer, another class for guns, a class to help dilute out the tinker fantasy from hunters and allow them to be more specialized

[glass flicker]

I don't know. I kinda just want my hoplite tank.

Spear and shield when?

[rain cave]

I agree honestly

make a hero spec for prot/fury

that allows them to use a 2h and shield

that would be fun

I honest to got want a spec that just uses a single 1h

either with an offhand focus or nothing

atleast 1h and dagger

[glass flicker]

I literally suggested this before.

It would set Prot Warriors apart from Prot Paladins by showing how more macho they are.

[rain cave]

I think that blizz should allow the base hero specs to exist so they can add whacky cooler ones

because we have tame "normal" ones now

with 2 choices each spec

so they don't have to worry about people being "locked out" from choice by making unique and whackier ones that maybe even change more

if you want to play the base spec you can still with the OG talents

but if you want to say, be a DH that uses 2H weapons then go ham

doesn't even have to be mandatory

[glass flicker]

That might be too much.

[rain cave]

inquisitor DH hero spec that unlocks the ability to use agility 2H but doesn't require it

[glass flicker]

I'm thinking more of a Single-Minded Fury talent on Prot that allows them to use a 2H weapon with a shield.

[distant ledge]

question, does anyone know how to put addons in ptr? i have them in my curseforge retail ptr folder but they do not pop up in ptr..

[glass flicker]

Functionally, let's even give 2H Prot the dagger animations if they use Polearms.

For the stabby stabs.

Annoys me to no end, 'cause we see others use shields and spears. Not the player characters though.

[deep pawn]

I highly doubt you'd be singing.

The survey says the Radiant Song, aka Azeroth's voice.

I've never been under any delusions this Radiant Song Bard would be about lyrical music.

[glass flicker]

Alright, hear me out on this one. Profession Master.

Engineering for ranged tank, first aid medic for non-magic healing, guns for damage.

Some general utility they bring could be a deployable 40% damage reduction to the entire party for 10 seconds, potion-tossing with random effects, you name it.

[deep pawn]

You must not see the hunters mad at both sentinel and dark ranger

[rain cave]

they're reworking it

and even then that's not my point

like those 2 specs fit MM

[deep pawn]

if you play an elf

[rain cave]

ehh sentinels can work for any race I'd say

as long as it isn't too tied to elf VFX

but if they made a hero spec that was more "gun" based even if it doesn't require you to use a gun

they'd struggle to get it to fit on the other specs, it would only really work on MM

my point is that because we have more "general" specs now, I think that allows them to go ham and introduce more niche and 'different' styles of hero spec

there is design room now for that

letting BM or survival dual wield and be like rexxar? why not

they don't have to

but if you put those into a hero spec they can have the option, and they can design it into that 1 micro spec without having to worry about it affecting other talent choices

I just think that because blizz are embracing that WoW thrives when it isn't designed as a competetive experience, they should just make things to be fun first rather than worry about it fitting into some pre-ordained idea of what's allowed now that they have the room to push that envelope

[deep pawn]

I personally hope they never add new hero trees as an expansion feature. It'll make the people who like the existing ones get nothing.

[rain cave]

well what else would they add then?

it's not like they get nothing, it's more like they get more choices

we get talent reshuffles and reworks all the time

that argument is like saying why add new classes, the people who like the current classes get nothing

add it because it's cool!

perfect balance isn't fun, let the game have room for chaos

[deep pawn]

You know dang well if they add new hero trees that work for all 3 specs it'd be the strongest for a little bit, and it'd just make anyone who doesn't like that new design mad. And it's not like a new class, that's a bit of a stretch. They made two, and adding a third in anything other than maybe a patch would be a mistake, certainly not as a 12.0 or 13.0 feature.

In fact, I highly doubt we'll even see them add points to the existing trees.

[rain cave]

it's worked for guild wars

where they capped the level and just added horizontal talent options

[deep pawn]

that's not WoW's design.

There will be something we put points into in Midnight, but I highly doubt it'll be Hero Talents

[austere gazelle]

Tinker? I think we'll see a hella lot of new heroic spec or new classes.

If earthen approaching the world soul can become Thraegar, it might just be a new whole class altogether somehow

[harsh mason]

This is the only alternative, since no one else will do much in the style of artifacts, hearts and the like, this game design does not work for MMORPGs, and there is nowhere else to expand the main branches of talent.

So most likely they will focus on creating heroic talents as subspecs

[deep pawn]

If I had to bet money, I'd expect a return of the Netherlight Crucible in a different way.

[harsh mason]

This is the same additional pumping system that worked for literally one patch (just because of the designer's problems with artifacts).

[civic flower]

Hello

[harsh mason]

I am sure (I hope) that they will no longer make systems that only work within a single expansion/patch.

[civic flower]

Yeah

[harsh mason]

Because it doesn't work for your character's, it's just an imitation

Objectively, the artifacts were a failure, and it showed back in 7.2 when they had to add endless talent. And it was clear that each such system required new supersystems in each patch, which was simply ridiculous. This works in single-player games, but not in WoW-style MMORPGs.

This was understandable when players were massively banned for starting to look for a bunch of bugs for AP farming in order to gain maximum artifact levels, because game content (including raids) had to be adjusted to the power of the artifacts. And this applies to ALL such similar systems.

Heroic talents, in fact, play the same role, BUT: without to endless farming, it don't take it away from you when exp/patch ends., with a convenient system for quickly changing it, and so on

Such systems may return, but this should not be tied to the characters power

For example Nerubian talents that affect new items in stores and small bonuses in the open world

[deep pawn]

Blizzard isn't doing borrowed power, whatever they add in Midnight will last through TLT. I just think deeper hero trees won't be what they do

There will be a reset, my assumption is 14.0 after the saga ends we'll see a level squish.

[rose escarp]

scratces record

[rain cave]

I do wonder if they'll ever do dual classing

[ember blaze]

🎸

[subtle oar]

It will be. We've been outright told Hero specs are a permanent evergreen game feature

[uncut vault]

Well it constantly summons a literal lunar beam using tyrande VFX now lol

The three hunter hero talents are not generic in any way whatsoever, they are a forced choice between cosplaying as Tyrande, Sylvanas, or Rexxar

Pack leader was generically themed, but you now are forced to use Rexxar’s pets

[rain cave]

oof

that's such a shame since it feels like there was good hero talents that could have been grounded

instead of magic

like "arrowheads" , "traps" and "beasts"

one thing that is annoying is that kinda no matter how you slice it the one that is shared between BM and MM is gonna be awkward

a bit like holy/shadow priests

[deep pawn]

They won't be removed. That is not a promise they'll be extended in any way.

Absolutely less likely will be only third hero specs or something since that'll only make existing hero specs feel worse.

So thus I'm expecting more shadow and light mastery class based stuff that we carry into TLT.

[subtle oar]

Absolutely they will be iterated on and worked on further and extrnded

There is a 0% chance they dont

[deep pawn]

Iterated on doesn't mean extended

I don't think there's a ton of space to add 10 points of theme to each existing hero spec thus why I think they go somewhere more thematic for midnight

Like no one wants 10 more points of fatebound.

I promise you we are not going into midnight with 20 point hero trees and TLT with 30 point ones. Yes it's evergreen in such that it's not being removed in midnight like covenants or the heart of azeroth was, but that is not a promise to be extended.

As an example, dynamic flying is an evergreen feature and they just slapped a rostrum of transformation in Dornogal.

[upper pasture]

(And dailies, and glyphs and achievements)

[rain cave]

who says they'll even raise the level cap

80 is a pretty comfortable level to stay at imo

even if it goes against convention

[upper pasture]

Why would they do a stat squish if the numbers arent gonna raise again?

[rain cave]

do we know they're doing a stat squish?

[upper pasture]

Yes

[rain cave]

ah

[upper pasture]

They already confirmed another one

[rain cave]

I mean, ilvl would increase

even if the lvl doesn't

and the numbers are already kinda crazy at our current level

[silent urchin]

iirc ion said "Likely midnight" or something along those lines for stat squish

[upper pasture]

Which is why we are getting one between the end of TWW to midnight

They would never remove adding levels to each expansion. That would leave a lot of players with no “real” progress to track

Especially since they’ve “gotten away” with removing levels twice now

[rain cave]

I feel it's a real possibility

[upper pasture]

Hard pass

[rain cave]

since levelling is such a nothingburger addition to the experience now

[upper pasture]

It feels like a lot of the community would hate it

[rain cave]

we can have campaigns and quests without them

and if anything it means they can focus the story and campaign instead of feeling like they need to stick to a formula

[upper pasture]

They would see sales for new expansions plummeting if they took away more levels and added just story. People would just wait to see the new content until it was “free”

[rain cave]

I disagree

[upper pasture]

That’s fine

[rain cave]

people don't buy a new expansion for the level increase

imo

[upper pasture]

There’s a lot of players that do tho

[rain cave]

they buy it for the things that the levels give them

and if we're not getting new talents

or expanded talents

it would effectively just be the same gameplay spreado out over more levels

[upper pasture]

Why do you think we aren’t getting new talents or expanded hero trees?

[rain cave]

and we already know level pacing is an issue

and numbers are already an issue

[rain cave]

not saying we aren't, just saying that it's looking like they're shifting to address the verticality issue by adding more horizontal content

like housing, hero talents, new ways of gearing

[upper pasture]

No it’s not, we are likely to get 10 each expansion until after TLT then we will see a level squish again

[rain cave]

trading post

etc

but you can only squish so much

before the whole system has to be reworked

chomie time sort of addresses it by making everything scale

but there's still a level order to the expansions

[upper pasture]

Not really with TW scaling and each expansion besides the fresh one scaling to 1-X

[rain cave]

and gear from older raids as well

[upper pasture]

X being whatever the new expansion starts at

[rain cave]

eventually if you keep squishing and squishing then 10 expansions worth of content will be in under 50 ilvls of gear

it's just awkward

my gut just tells me they're moving to make the game more evergreen by reworking the core of what WoW is while still sticking to what people enjoy playing

[upper pasture]

Old raids and old gear from raids are nothing more than cosmetic

[rain cave]

I know

[upper pasture]

Then what does the itmlvl of that gear matter?

[rain cave]

numbers just get weird if you keep squishing

because then each single ilvl will mean significntly more

so gear just gets whacky because there's less degrees of freedom/ fine tuning

[upper pasture]

Numbers are irrelevant for you are just getting it for the “skin”

[rain cave]

yeah but if they squish it so our equivalent of 15ilvl is now 1ilvl

then those middle bits are gone

so now the increments of power are larger

that affects max lvl

basically I just forsee them reworking either gearing or levelling

[upper pasture]

The only itmlvl that’s relevant is the current expansion

[rain cave]

either by making expansion/seasonal ilvls a thing and making everything old into cosmetic items without power

so they never have to squish again

or by doing something with levelling to slow down how quick numbers go up

[upper pasture]

They should just remove itmlvl from non current expansion items

[rain cave]

because a levelling campaign introduces like 100ilvl

whereas ther whole expansion patch content from first to final patch also does that

so by cutting out levelling gear they effectively half the rate of ilvl ballooning

[rain cave]

ye that's what I said above, it's a solution

just feels like the general community might not like their gear being a seasonal number like destiny or w/e

and the nicher communities might dislike their twinks items being nullified or something

whereas if they just say "we're focussing on what you guys love. Endgame, story, gear, etc." by removing new levels I feel that might be perceived better

[upper pasture]

Whether they like it or not, it’s already a seasonal number

[rain cave]

because a lot of WoW's gameplay satisfaction is kinda smoke and mirrors anyways

[rain cave]

ye

that's what I kinda mean by what I just said as well

[deep pawn]

People associate levelling with character progression

It won't go away

There's some people still mad at the level squish

[ember blaze]

i dont like fighting gods and critting for 1k

[deep pawn]

Ilvl is pretty meaningless in old content anyways. Legion ilvl has like doubled since the squish to account for them making sure you can live after leaving timewalking

They adjust the levelling ilvl curve every expansion to make it so you are at an okay point in new content

Not that many people even see gear drop outside of Chromie time.

[rain cave]

this is my point though

a lot of the actual systems are faked to get satisfaction

kind of game design 101 in a way but

I think if they want to have better long term health and support evergreen features?

with the window to add more classes or hero talent trees. or specs?

I'd say capping the level is their best bet

because otherwise we will just keep running into the same problem, and it becomes MORE of a problem every time as more systems have to be layered and merged

if we get to level 120 again, levelling will be balanced around a ding every minute again

classes will have weird pacing to unlocking abilities for lower level players unless that's the case

it won't be as clean as 1 talent per level, unless they expand the talents as well

but then we run into the same issue that led to them moving away from classic talent trees

[deep pawn]

I'm generally not a fan of alternate advancement or gw2's horizontal content where you're bis geared in 2 seconds

[deep pawn]

That's why I'm 100% certain after TLT we'll reach the "future Blizz time" they'll squish and reset.

they're fully aware these systems are gonna layer too much

but they are sticking to evergreen for as long as they can

[rain cave]

ehh you're not really

GW2's gearing is actually longer form

can take you months to get some of the best of the best items

it's just that the margin is lower

you can get stats 5% from the best stats from the AH, so you can always easily flex into different roles

but then once you get those extra 5% you're locked in, and the horizontal progression becomes the legendary gear that takes months to get and then allows you to customisze your stats to whatever build you want

as well as just being cool

[deep pawn]

It's hyperbole but GW's selling point is you don't worry about gearing or levelling, you're done

That would not work for WoW players

[rain cave]

not saying they should do that

[deep pawn]

and the really old WoW players will equate anything like alternate advancement and AP with failed systems of the past.

[rain cave]

vertical will always be WoW's stronghold

[deep pawn]

"evergreen" or not.

[rain cave]

just saying that they need to find a way to manage it

[deep pawn]

they have way, they'll eventually squish and reset the board and start over.

[rain cave]

this could be it though

status quo change after TLT

I mean the big twist could be if we actually lose somewhat

and we get "reset"

and so all the prior expansions now take place in the old timeline

because once azeroth is born then what lmao

[harsh mason]

New ptr build when🗿

[iron hare]

Excited to see the other bosses on Thursday

Stix looked insane and going to be a nightmare for pugs

[deep pawn]

don't even expect the levels squish to have a lore reasoning

it didn't in BfA

never expect gameplay to come second to lore.

[rain cave]

I know it just seems like there's going to be another major revamp after tlt just naturally

in my head we've kind of reached the culmination of what "traditional" wow is with the worldsoul saga, Ofc they'll keep doing things within the way they've been doing it before

but a different direction will start after that they said as much

even a new saga means there will be new mechanics and stuff

[iron hare]

I hope the last raid of tlt is a 15 boss raid again

Something epic and huge

Idm 8 bosses but 10 scratches the itch, I hope that's what we get for midnight

[deep pawn]

they said they don't like long raids anymore

they see player attention drop too fast

[iron hare]

Yeah but for the big climactic finale it should be huge

[pulsar minnow]

A giant raid for the finale of the world soul saga is definitely not out of the realm of possibility

[deep pawn]

ptr build?

no, just something short, wonder what.

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/wolfhowling-yes-gif-20150350

[harsh mason]

I hope not. 8-10 bosses is the most optimal number of bosses per raid tier.

[iron hare]

Yes but the scale for the finale

Not every raid just the last one

Also anyone think plunderstirn should have been on siren isle?

[deep pawn]

too small unless they cut it to 20 people

[ember blaze]

there should have been a new map

[glass fulcrum]

Tbf this is a rerun basically

They’ll probably do another event like it that is a different place, but to be fair there aren’t many zones that support the format cleanly

As in don’t need a lot of map changes

[ember blaze]

celestial barrage and star bomb are plunderstorm abilities we neeeeeed in game

[harsh mason]

No, according to lore, this island has the reputation of a cursed island and everyone tried to ignore it, except for the Ashvane corporation, which decided to start mining Azerite there and as a result, part of it escaped, the second part simply disappeared from the island

But here's Tel Abim🗿

Like, when?🗿

[harsh mason]

They said that yes, the final raid is usually (but not always) larger than the previous, but I think we are unlikely to see more than 10 bosses in the raid tier, simply because the game has been playing for 20 years and more than 100 raid bosses have been made during this time, which makes it difficult to create new

[deep pawn]

was hoping for ptr build today

[silent urchin]

The servers went down a while ago.. seemed like there was gonna be one

[deep pawn]

oh, didn't realize, still work day then

[dense plover]

It’s only 4pm PST

[silent urchin]

Build!

wait

that's on vendor 3

not PTR

boo

[ionic terrace]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/undermined-development-notes/2031155/8

[silent urchin]

real build is out too

best new achievement

huh, wonder what those are

no realms yet

[upper pasture]

Huh, maybe a toy or possibly a reusable key that can be used once a week or something?

Or maybe even crazier thought an item for player housing. Something to put on a shelf or wall

Would be a tad bit early but who knows

[silent urchin]

loads of new items in general. Couple new battle pets and mounts and so on.

or wiat, not that many, mostly flag changes on old stuff

[uncut vault]

I'm still curious if theyre going to be resetting restored coffer keys or not

[silent urchin]

They are, I believe

[uncut vault]

because on one hand, it's a massive leg-up to have them stored from last season

[silent urchin]

looked like there was a new S2 version

[upper pasture]

Don’t the current ones say they are only good for S1?

[uncut vault]

but on the other, it's a huge punishment if they wipe them because they're renown rewards

meaning they're either secretly limited time items we didn't know about, or people are rewarded for not redeeming their reputation rewards

[upper pasture]

They will likely turn them into vendor trash

So if you get the renown reward after season 1 is over you still get the “value” out of them

Much like how we saw the crests turn into grey items back in DF

[silent urchin]

Eh, the amount you get from renown is tiny

[upper pasture]

Eh, it’s a lot for a fresh alt. Someone would cry over one tbh tho

[silent urchin]

some parts of the key system have a season 1 tag, for sure.. others don't seem to

ah those coffer keys appear to be back appearances

[upper pasture]

Oh interesting

Guess I should finish the 500 then lol 😅

[silent urchin]

Oh there's another gallywix mount too

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=236960/prototype-a-s-m-r

this one is on all difficulties

this is the gold coffer key, I feel like these were datamined ages ago

or were they previously a weapon?

[uncut vault]

Weapons from the secret stuff in DF

[upper pasture]

Oh neat, even more opportunity to RP as a kingdom hearts character lol

[deep pawn]

they'll be vendor trash, they won't make you grind old renown for s2

[iron hare]

It is impressive how blizzard continues to innovate with every raid

Nerub ar palace has an amazing running theme of every boss dying to their own mechanics (lore wise hubris) (bloodhound horror teleports us into the shadow realm to kill creatures that empower us), ulgrax gets fed their own creatures making him weaker, we use brood to cause premature births with the eggs, if Kyveza a beats us she looses cause she waists the queensbane poision, court screws each other over, using ansureks poision bombs and void bombs againts her, it does of really good job of telling a giant cohesive narrative of dying to your own hubris including the overall environment of feeling like ansurek already lost way before the raid even starts and is one giant last stand and seeing her go more and more crazy

[deep pawn]

so 19 weeks to complete the renown track

I guess that makes some sense

still feels really long

3 weeks to the first 3% buff

is that faster than 11.0?

that's a bit of a hard cut off for the RWF

[harsh mason]

I think that if the top guilds don't kill Gall by week 3, then the 3% buff will be relevant, while developers won't need to nerf boss hp and damage manually.

[deep pawn]

it'd be the longest race since Sepulcher.

[ember blaze]

is radiant echo keys also being deleted

[deep pawn]

That I don't know, I have to imagine they reset those because there's no way they let us farm a bunch of 642 gear the first week of the season again

We'll get our 4-5 keys as intended.

[ember blaze]

i never engaged with it so i guess i gotta go use them 🛌

[deep pawn]

there's some achievements tied to memories

[little hound]

Looks like they are being added to our gamefiles too, not just chinese ?

[silent urchin]

afaik they always are

[little hound]

Didnt know? Thought china had a very.. edited WoW. No bones and stuff, rigged vault etc. thought they had.. seperate files from ours

[ember blaze]

will we also have to pay $500 for them 🤔

[silent urchin]

Not expecting them to be released, tbh

[ember blaze]

thoughts on bellular's ethereal playable race confirmed vid? 🤔

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

give me ethereals!

[tropic trail]

Man that would be great

[ember blaze]

i think it's fine if they cant wear player armor

[silent urchin]

They don't seem to be any more special than a lot of NPC races atm, even less than haranir and tuskarr.

I think partly it's just how they do races with some model variety now

it could lead to something, but nothing certain that it will

[ember blaze]

only thing guaranteed in this game is an elf 😭

[silent urchin]

Your Coffer Key balance will be reset. Keys cannot be carried over from Season 1 to Season 2.```

Raid testing cancelled for today, not looking good for servers

[honest wadi]

Can D.R.I.V.E. only be used in undermine?

[silent urchin]

yes

[ember blaze]

no mention of radiant echoes? 🤔

and man getting that bastard to 60 is too much

[silent urchin]

I presume that's all bundled together, along with fragments

[ember blaze]

they should boost xp gains by end of season

[silent urchin]

the curve is real weird, for sure

[ember blaze]

mines lvl 48

its like 250k? xp for one level, that is insane

[silent urchin]

last one is something like 900k

[upper pasture]

they have the bonus delve weeks

[silent urchin]

he gains very little power in the last 15 levels

[upper pasture]

but it was insane leveling him to 60

[ember blaze]

worthless 💀

[upper pasture]

glad to see they are looking at it

[upper pasture]

25% is alot

[silent urchin]

I wonder if they changed how he gains rep. It looked like they were boosting the extra lootable stuff by quite a bit, but not sure if it's still limited just to bountiful delves

[upper pasture]

i wouldn't be surprised to see it be changed to lower than 60 can be done in any delve then 60 and above needs to be in bountifuls

[harsh mason]

Guys, is it the case that Faerin in Dornogal doesn't have a choice of weekly activities? Like, there was also a window with a choice (either local tasks, or a dungeon, and so on)

[uncut vault]

Yeah some weeks it's weird like that and doesn't give a regular weekly

[silent urchin]

realms up

delves are still set to season 1 it seems

[ionic terrace]

Zandelvari is back tho

new curios too

[silent urchin]

oh now it's set to season 2

and suddenly brann abilities actually work..

[ionic terrace]

ye

neat

[silent urchin]

new treasure wraith reward

also gave +1 life

oh and

weirdly, I couldn't trigger it by AOEing the chest so I had to trigger the trap, I assume that's a bug

almost died

[ionic terrace]

sporbits no longer targetable

[silent urchin]

yeah, they blow up if you stand on them instead

I find it much nicer

they no longer instantly aggro and chase you

got this one off a treasure crab

tank brann seems ok, although I'm only in a T5

the buff for healing him is pretty powerful, it seems to count individual heals rather than any sort of tracking of healed amount, you can stack it even when he's full hp

it's one of those rolling buffs where each stack has its own timer, without refreshing

[sharp grove]

Hello! I want to know if there is anyone here who can update me on the Pet Battle, did it get any attention nowadays?

I remember when I used to play wow only because of the pet battle, I had soo many! I had only 3, the main team, maxed out! And It was so fun!

I want to know if it got or if it will get any attention.

I even got the ones from "Isle of the Giants", the one from Pandaria

[ionic terrace]

owie

[thin warren]

Owie xD

[ionic terrace]

@silent urchin

i love it

op

[rain cave]

omg midnight logo!

[silent urchin]

ok I gave brann the augment chip relic and leveled him up at zandelvari and they might have actually overdone him a bit

[ionic terrace]

heh

[silent urchin]

his damage is pretty bursty though, depending on which abilities he's using

shotgun blast is absurd

gotta have a pretty high tolerance for him doing.. brann things tho

[ionic terrace]

they fixed the trinket vendors too

[upper pasture]

Pet battle is constantly getting new pets every update/patch/usually one in the monthly trading post.

[sharp grove]

Really? Sorry, I didn't knew. I stopped playing WOW for awhile and got curios to know if my favourite thing about it gets aknowledged, because it seems like many players are not attracted to pet battling anymore

[upper pasture]

There is a huge following for pet battle players. It might be ignored by the “top” players but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a bunch of collectors/battlers out there

[sharp grove]

True, I remember that there used to be so many locations from where you could start a pet battle, it was actually impossible to not do it.

I even had a specific pet that I do not remember its name but it looked like a hound with 2 heads.

It was insanely powerfull!

[silent urchin]

oh the new bounty maps scale to the level you complete them on, rather than the level you got them on, neat

the underpin mobs don't seem to scale with delve level.. might be why they seem to hit so hard

[deep pawn]

The devs have said they're done with pet dungeons and raids for now though

[upper pasture]

They might be “done” with planning them but that doesn’t mean they don’t have them lined up for the next two expansions

[harsh mason]

In the meantime, you can buy 2 pets in the new raid.

[deep pawn]

Yeah, they're adding new pets, but they aren't adding content like the dungeons and raids anymore

[harsh mason]

Oh, I get what you mean.

Yea

[harsh mason]

Mug’zee is insane

[iron hare]

this raid looks so good

i havent tested it cause i like to savor the experience, but its looking like we're looking at a new meember of the all time greats

[dense plover]

Going back on the Hunter pet change is lame

They were actually going to make the specs distinct

People suck

[silent urchin]

v0v it's probably gonna be a much worse option despite what they say. Pet is a pretty core part of the hunter class fantasy for a lot of people

seems fine really

they're not getting rid of the new stuff

[uncut vault]

Yeah this change has no downsides at all, everything from the rework is wholly maintained

It just also maintains the choice aspect of pet options that it’s had for 20 years

[dense plover]

Fair enough I guess

[iron hare]

I'm gonna nit pick something cause I like having opinions

Anyone think mug' zee should have been hobgoblin?

Like the hogblins are so cute and derpy and getting one with sunglasses and a tux would have been so funny

[deep pawn]

I personally am over the moon that they're not just letting you have a pet, they're going out of their way to make it a durable tank!

That's more than people were asking for.

They're likely gonna have to buff improved spotter's mark though.

cause the pet even without any buffs was about 5% damage single target

You weren't really losing damage to summon a pet for utility.

so that node is gonna have to be hella strong

[ember blaze]

this is why stuff like this and weapons should be cosmetic if its something that will clash with balance

[harsh mason]

Now the game definitely needs a gnome’s raid

By the way, in the dungeon journal loot table, Gall has an extra rare drop that doesn't have an icon and description. A new leg?

[harsh mason]

It's actually subjective. It's just that here, in the goblin theme, developers are implementing new mechanics that are suitable for this theme.
Like, the ogre who has first personality is a super security guy with a machine gun, commanding robots, and the other one is a wild magician/shaman armed with golden brass knuckles-that's awesome. But it won't work for another raid.

In short, all (almost) wow raids are great

[subtle oar]

It's core to the BM and Surv fantasy, not MM. MM is suppose to be a lone wolf long ranged assassin, or devastating a battlefield with volleys of arrows.

I'm with Peach on this. If ppl wanted pets, plays Surv/BM.

[subtle oar]

You were

[subtle oar]

No, ir needs less gnomes in general. Also, they got a pseudo raid already with Operation Mechagon

[deep pawn]

Depended on tier and target count. In DF it wasn't really a dps loss on a boss, but it is right now my bad. Hero talents inflated kits.

I know I'm not nearly that important but I'm starting to get scared how many things I like are happening in the game. Like I literally made feedback about how I wanted enh to be less about spenders and feeling like an elemental shaman just in melee and that's literally what they said they're doing this patch.

Totemic existing at all is my personal shaman fantasy

And now MM hunter is not only keeping a pet with lone wolf gone, but the talent is making it more durable!

This is the first time MM has had pet support for a long time.

I'd hope my feedback on discord isn't highlighted.

[sullen dawn]

I didn't know opinions could be wrong until I read this

More gnomes, more good

[rain cave]

"we need less gnomes and more elves and humans"

(me when I intentionally misconstrue words to make the statement less agreeable)

[subtle oar]

We need less focus on Elves and Humans too, tbh xD

[ember blaze]

do yall think the faction seperation is good long term? Like we can't have a story or expac without a side feeling left out

like the current story and ppl saying horde are just forgotten

[upper pasture]

imho faction separation is good, gives more angles to tell more stories from

[silent urchin]

I kinda hope it goes away as a game mechanic. I think it could actually lead to more room for allowing more than 2 distinct factions storytelling wise

Plus the player character is the special boy that can do anything

we've saved all the cities several times

tbh I'd really like seeing orc or human stories without having the rest of the horde/alliance involved

[clear apex]

Other games do just fine without faction war stuff.

[upper pasture]

it's not even about the faction "war" just a faction divide

[clear apex]

It does feel bad, from my pov, to work with and save the world multiple times then have to find stupid reasons to fight with the other side

If jaina can learn to like orcs and blood elves, why can't we

Plus we actually let blood elves into alliance territory anyways. Void elves were blood elf

And after all this time it feels weird to tell dracthyr and earthen they have to pretty much lessen contact due to factions

[ember blaze]

I feel like you could do this without having "alliance/horde" attached to it

like learning more about goblins next patch. Without the above, it's not gonna be "horde patch"

and then alliance wondering why theyre ignored

[tulip sun]

Except Alliance coes have presence via Renzik and Alleria

Foes*

Does*

[subtle oar]

No thanks

[subtle oar]

Other games are just that, other games.

[subtle oar]

Goblins as a whole are a neutral race. Only the Bilgewater Cartel allied with the Horde completely.

[ember blaze]

and yet you can only play a goblin on the horde side.

[subtle oar]

You are playing a Bilgewater Goblin

[ember blaze]

👍

[harsh mason]

Without direct wars, yes, without "conflicts" no.

Conflicts and separations

But I will surprise you, there are not many such games in cell, the closest one is star wars the old republic.

And there, too, without the "separation" of the factions, the game cannot exist.

[clear apex]

I disagree

[harsh mason]

The Horde and the alliance work together when there is a common threat, which is logical (the dumbest move in the history of WoW was in WotLK, when A and O forced each other to kill each other during the ICC siege), but I don't think (I hope) that further "working together if there is a common threat" will not be

[clear apex]

That's what caused the game to exist but we're past that. Allowing certain alliance cities to have horde already is taking down the divide

Why does horde need to be allowed into belameth?
We helped get back lordaeron but can't go there as alliance.

There's really been no conflict since bfa and the game exists fine

[subtle oar]

The Horde shouldnt be allowed at Belameth. It is really dumb they can be there.

[clear apex]

I agree

[harsh mason]

This is not in the past, since the very beginning of wow classic, A and O were united when there were common threats. But this does not mean that they literally become one. These are two different factions, this is the core of this universe. Now there will be no senseless unjustified direct wars. This is why even in TWW, when troops A and O land on the Island of Dorne, they are at a distance from each other.

[clear apex]

I really doubt tyrande would want horde in there, the whole reason they had to find a new home in the first place

[subtle oar]

The only reason its allowed it because the current devs are way to scared to actually tell a story. Chris Metzen being back will change that.

[clear apex]

Unification of elves has vibes though of making some places more open

Don't think alliance can help in silvermoon if we're banned from it

[harsh mason]

Let me remind you that Chris Metzen wrote Draenor and Chris Metzen was there when the BfA plot was being written. So no, that's not what he's doing.

[subtle oar]

?

[harsh mason]

Chris Metzen gives the direction of the story based on the knowledge of the world he created, but does not write a "plot".

[subtle oar]

He is literally THEE Narrative Director

He does control the plot lol

[harsh mason]

I'll be honest, he didn't have much of a plot. The plot and "lore" are two different things

[rain cave]

he's the creative director, he's very much responsible for every direction the story goes. The writers would work with him to establish and give feedback to direction as well, then once they agree on a direction the writers would fill in the gaps of the how

you could argue it's his story being told en-large

but everyone has input

Chris could pitch "I want Beledar to be a naaru ship" then someone in the room could go "ok, but what about this" and then he changes his direction to that

when it comes to direction it's usually to do more with themes and broad strokes

then the artists come up with the "stories" within, to fit Chris's vision

[ember blaze]

how does metzen feel about bards 🤔

[clear apex]

Does he have social media? We should ask

[silent urchin]

true

[clear apex]

Do we have that Hairstyle for goblins in the cc?

Cheta's?