beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

We'll have reasons to distrust the Titans in 13.0 but Iridikron will present a more immediate threat to be dealt with.

[ember blaze]

anduin will just cast ress again

[rain cave]

"I need more mana"

[ember blaze]

seriously wasnt it kinda cheap for him to ress him the first time

specially with his struggles with the light

[rain cave]

that's the point though

[ember blaze]

and he just casually found it in him again

[rain cave]

it's less about the Res it's more about him having that faith in himself to use the light again

he'd been building up to it thoughout the campaign

there was a lot of hints/foreshadowing that he was approaching being able to use it again

and that being a warrior isn't actually in his nature

they didn't want to kill khadgar and have him be ressed, they wanted Anduin to get his light back

khadgar was just the storytelling package through which they showed that

[ember blaze]

fair

is there some established limitation for someone like him to ress others?

i assume he cant just do it all the time like we players do

[rain cave]

there's a big association with particularly light based resurrection and inspiration/faith

Tirion put every essence of his being into resurrecting us in ICC

Anduin built up to it himself and had that "if I can only do one thing let it be this" mentality as well

that seems to be why you can't just resurrect people willy nilly

becuase in canon the lights power is based on faith/devotion like that. And if you normalize it you lose that sense of power and therefore the ability

take it for granted you no longer have that faith

you need to put 100% into it

[ember blaze]

[rain cave]

that's also why Tirion probably died at the broken shore

his fight was with Arthas he put everything into it

he wasn't experienced with the legion they probably just put him on a boat to come fight it

there wasn't any personal stakes

[lone mantle]

I believe these are just NPC models that have been recently datamined.

[rain cave]

Well yes but the same can be said for highmounain, nightborne, harranir

[lone mantle]

Although, I would love to see them as a playable allied race.

[uncut vault]

She definitely isn't haha, she's talked about how she'll do it for as long as Blizzard will have her

Sylvanas is probably lowest on the totem pole of Windrunners to kill off, simply because she's the most marketable and popular

Not to mention her whole story in Shadowlands was about the good she could do by not just dying

[sleek solar]

Well they wanted her out of the spotlight, and Alleria in the spotlight

Valeera? Who is that?

[rain cave]

didn't stop them with Varian hehe

I feel like Sylvanas doesn't really have anything to do in the story other than play with her sisters in midnight

the forsaken won't want her back

her narrative arch has completed

Alleria feels like she will mainly be relevant in midnight but even her I don't know what she will do

Vereese unironically seems to be the only one with a lot of narrative room

[sleek solar]

I think she will reunite with the rest of the elves in Midnight

[rain cave]

she can lead the crossfaction elf efforts, gateway into half elfves, dalaran 2.0 whenever and whatever that could be, she's the one who raised arator and he's potentially going to be one of the main characters.

[sleek solar]

Perhaps even be the one who does bring them together

[rain cave]

and because they've just not done much with her in general, they can take her in any direction they want

[uncut vault]

"This character doesnt have anything to do" doesnt exactly stop them with characters either haha

[rain cave]

she's not got astrong tie to any narrative part other than has kids and is settling somewhere

[uncut vault]

most of the time, characters only really show up for the sake of about two personal quests and a flashy cinematic moment if they're lucky

[rain cave]

oh I know but like if you have sylvanas or Alleria in a story, for marketing they need to have a strong narrative push

[sleek solar]

You could argue the 3 sisters represent the high elves factions, Sylvanas represents the Blood elves, Valeera the High elves and Alleria the Void elves

[rain cave]

ehh to me it's more that they all represet the high elves, but are also alien to their own people

that is their sisterly bond

they share a culure, and an alienation from it

[sleek solar]

https://tenor.com/view/ironic-star-wars-chode-gif-5274592

[rain cave]

Vereesa was away from silvermoon, she married out of it and was enemies with her own people for years. It will be interesting seeing her settling back in and adjusting to silvermoon again if she returns there to raise her kids. But she isn't a blood elf, never was.

none of them became blood elves

Sylvanas obv became undead, and lorthremar voiced his dislike of her back when she was a bit sinister

[sleek solar]

Yet he still respected the person she used to be

[rain cave]

alleria ofc got kicked out of Silvermoon and was away for a millenia

[rain cave]

oh that's a common thread for all of them in a way as well

[sleek solar]

Like Graymane said, they still listened to her

[rain cave]

Alleria and Sylvanas were these sort of mythological beings to the alliance and horde respectively

but yeah I think they will definetly bond over their shared alienation from their culture as they all potentially seek to re-enter it

[sleek solar]

I cant imagine that they wont be included, when we reunite the elves

[rain cave]

literally if they only have time for 1 thing. Show us Vereesa moving in to Windrunner spire, renovating it into a house for her kids. Whilst auntie Sylvanas, Alleria, and cousin Arator all sit around for a family gathering

don't even do a cinematic if there's no time for it. That quest where you just sit at the table with Faerin, Anduin and Alleria was nice

would fit the player housing theme as well.

Making a home.

[sleek solar]

Best quest in the expansion imo so far

Taking a break

It felt so good

But tbh I really like the quests in general

Especially the ones with the heavy topics

[rain cave]

imagining what they're going to do with midnight after having all the setup time from TWW. As well as a more focused direction from the start

chefs kiss

[sullen dawn]

Ages ago I had this idea that the 6 "big elves" would eventually represent their respective pantheons, but there was more during legion/early BFA era where the cosmic chart was the big thing. I don't really believe it anymore

Sylvanas = Death
Valeera = Order
Aleria = Void
Malfurian = Life
Illidan = Chaos/Fel
Tyrande = Light

And that illidans prophecy would involve them all. I've kind of thrown that theory into the garbage though

It would have been nice and neat with lots of symmatery though

[rain cave]

The thing is there's a few here who kinda border multiple

also valeera doesn't really do arcane

she doesn't even have glowing eyes

we also have azshara who's sort of arcane AND void

Tyrande isn't very light aligned despite being a priestess, but Elune in general is both light and arcane as well, debatably death in nature but also life aligned

we also have arator who is being set up as a "child of light and shadow" literally

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I've definitely bounced off the theory

[clear apex]

I hope in midnight we finally see elune.
There was so much about her in SL (and a portion in legion) and we still haven't seen or heard her

🤔 could she be the last titan? If it's not about azeroth.

[rain cave]

Elune is definetly going to be more cuthroat than people think

like people have this image of her as this nice moon goddess

but the winter queen was very bitter about her before they reconciled. Elune even says it's her job to send souls to her. She is very cold about it generally, she does shed a tear but she doesn't change her tone or anything

and she doesn't let tyrande free by herself, tyrande has to want Elunes power to go away. That being the same power that is fuelling her anger and hatred

we even has an ability called "fury of elune"

she is NOT a warm loving deity

doesn't mean she is evil. just means that if we do see her, she will most likely rock up and absolutely deck whatever is messing with us.

we've seen how raw her fury gets even when it's channeled through one mortal

she might even be our key to fighting dimensius honestly

[sullen dawn]

Yeh she's gonna be pretty utilitarian imo

[pulsar minnow]

The expansion being called “The Last Titan” is probably not meant to be taken literally

It’s likely a callback to Wrathion’s vision in MOP in which we got our first hint of Azeroth being a living being. “Protect the final titan”

Since we now know Azeroth isn’t really a titan but something much greater, the idea is probably that it’s a fight for what the titans view as “The Last Titan”

Also the logo for TLT is literally a world soul in a titan containment sphere so there’s that too

[clear apex]

In a lot of real life stuff moon goddesses aren't nice gentle ladies (and some sun goddesses).
I think it's cool elune is portrayed this way.
I think tyrande having to want the power gone was a lesson about "careful what you wish for". Yes elune didn't have to give it to her and even stopped her from killing sylvanas (imo bad writers cause they needed sylv around longer) but overall tyrande was so pissed and I'm sure elune wasn't happy about her worshippers getting massacred.

But elune gave it to her anyways and let her work through it

[clear apex]

I know, i just like theories.
My other thought is just, azeroth is the last titan we'll meet or interact with.
Or, she'll be the last one standing after whatever events

Just blows up the others

[light compass]

Elune and azeroths connection this days is weird....

[deep pawn]

We haven't even begun to explore how close Elune and Eonar are.

[clear apex]

As others have said they're clearly "room mates"

[pulsar minnow]

The legend of Elun’aria describes them as lovers right?

I’ll bet 10 aman’thul mind wiped Eonar at some point

[sullen dawn]

FWB

[deep pawn]

Planted out of love could just be flowery mythology prose, but who knows.

[fathom idol]

Azeroth isn't a Titan. That's been established via the disc fragment quests. The Titans would like to convert her into being a Titan, hence the manifold and world soul cage, but she's not (yet at least).

It's more likely she's a First One world soul, and has the powers of all the cosmic forces combined.

[harsh mason]

Azeroth is a World soul (like all the Titans who were like that originally). The soul of the world is not a titan, it's... well... World soul

It's just that Azeroth has been affected by many cosmic forces from the very beginning, and because of this, it doesn't fall into any of the categories.

[thin warren]

aren't all titans born from a worldsoul?

that's why the void wanted to corrupt this world soul so they would get a dark titan

[harsh mason]

World souls appeared after the conflict of Darkness and Light (if I remember correctly). The pantheon of Titans was formed from the "first" born world souls.

By the way, those crystals like Beledar are just those fragments of light that carried with them the energy from which the world souls appeared inside the planets.

[thin warren]

yeh, wasn't there some lore about that in the game that it might be manifestations of the light coming from the prime world soul

[rain cave]

As far as we know

[rain cave]

This we don't know

It's still fully possible within the lore that we have that beledar are the sirens Isle crystal could have been from an invading force of light from eons ago, one that was mythologized in that pandaria story of the guy shooting multiple suns out of the sky

Also We're told that the crystals are world soul essence, but not who's.

Could be related to Amitus, the titan introduced in hearthstone. Since the lore there is that she is the light titan, and went missing after sargeras left and the pantheon started squabbling.

She is said and shown to be a titan of peace and non conflict. We've seen the light try to do an aggressive pacifism before, it fits the fantasy/trope in other media as well, and the crystal on siren is implicitly shown to cause people to suddenly become cooperative and non aggressive.

[hazy kettle]

On that note and totally not unrelated - the fact only the 'two light' specs got an 'oracle' hero talent, rather than shadow as well, makes me very very angy.

[rain cave]

Tbf oracle's are about divining 1 future

Would be fun if they did lean into the multiple truths of the void in the void spec though for sure

Archon and voidweavers fantasies are a bit weird

Of they'd done something like devoted instead of archon they could have used some of archon for void

To flesh it a bit more

[hazy kettle]

Arcon is... well, there is only one description: Halo on steroids.,

Voidweaver, while nice visually (albeit it's just a tiny little black hole)

does require a lot of stat-sync to get off more mindblasts, right? So, it unlocks more so late.r

[ember blaze]

which is weird to me

cause that tree is about your ultimate form(your main cd)

but the only thing you really notice on that tree is halo...

and it seems to focus more on halo than your actual ultimate form...

[hazy kettle]

Yeah, as Holy it would make sense to buff Apotheosis (albeit it's a talent, same as Voidform and Dark ... wings.)

[austere gazelle]

Titans are born from world soul / World soul does not systematically give birth to a titan.

The world soul would give birth to something linked to the force that influenced it. That's why Argus went to the shadowland, and was maybe an incomplete titan - looking entity, cause it was influenced by order / disorder and death

As for the crystal of beledar, are other said, it's a crystallisation of the prime world soul essence. So a manifestation of Azeroth's power / memories ... Untainted Azerite perhaps. ( not tainted by order )

[thin warren]

ahah

[tropic trail]

I play archon priest now. Haha 😂

[iron hare]

PTR releases arent always on tuesday right

[deep pawn]

rarely actually.

Blizzard is still on vacation.

Don't expect anything til next week.

wait, when did Plunderstorm end date change to 2/18 on the Calendar?

oh, back in November before patch went live

[iron hare]

just wondering how early in the new year we're thinking

[deep pawn]

for the PTR?

My guess has been 1/9

Even with Plunderstorm ending 2/18 I still think patch is 2/25 cause of The Great Push

[ember blaze]

where ptr

[harsh mason]

Does anyone know if BRD will stay after the anniversary? It would be nice if they left this updated raid, as they did with Onyxia.

[harsh mason]

Definitely not in the New Year

[silent urchin]

BRD is probably going away, I imagine most of the celebration stuff will return next year though

[clear apex]

Hope it comes back for next year.
I don't have the energy to do all the detective stuff or try to get the fel cycle

Maybe if I'm lucky there's a recolor that I'll like better on the trade post then i can skip the green one

[sullen dawn]

I remember seeing somewhere the tier 2 remake sets will be ever 5 years

Can't remember where though

[clear apex]

Good god, every 5 years would be ridiculous

[silent urchin]

that was the vendor that's selling the previous anniversary rewards

[clear apex]

Oops misread

[silent urchin]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Storekeeper_Reginald

has his text in there

[clear apex]

Damn, sorry for people that missed this year or didn't even play yet

[silent urchin]

Until this year I'm not sure any of that had ever returned, or was expected to

[upper pasture]

If it returns it makes a lot of sense to be every year not every 5 or 10 years. I’d just chalk his dialog up as just someone being silly with how he perceives time.

Also making it not every year would kinda go against the new normal for blizzard and locking stuff behind huge periods of time or “you had to be playing then”. Their mindset outside of seasonal rewards and elite PvP sets are changing for the better

[zealous sedge]

I was literally just thinking about coming in here to ask about this. I only got my priest ensemble. These last three months have been so busy irl i wasn't able to really dive in until this week. I really hope they bring back this rewards especially the T2 sets next year

[clear apex]

If you've got time, grab some crates, that's a pretty fast way to get coins

[zealous sedge]

crates from weeklies?

[clear apex]

Crates from the guest relations billboard

[zealous sedge]

ohh

ty!

[clear apex]

Np

[sleek solar]

To be honest, I would love more remakes (tier 1?) than having the same sets every time

[ember blaze]

we can have both

[upper pasture]

New sets added and “old” remakes brought back

[ember blaze]

this is sick 😂

surely it is one of tinker's abilities

[fathom idol]

Farm the siren isle. You'll get craploads of celebration tokens in one day of farming, likely enough for all the sets.

[fathom idol]

The Detective and Felcycle will still be around, same as other Secrets of Azeroth stuff. They're not going anywhere after the anniversary event ends. Alyx will be moving to Dornogal after the event ends too.

[deep pawn]

Oh the entire guest relations is staying?

[zealous sedge]

tysm

[ember blaze]

the crate stuff?

idk about anything else

[uncut vault]

Yeah the fel cycle requires it, so they’re moving enough of the criteria to Dornogal to allow people to get the detective title

[deep pawn]

I still need to do it cause I wanna get sad.

[ember blaze]

u should do it now unless you wanna be spending like 50k gold or get stuck from an item u dont have

[deep pawn]

Felcyle is cool but I have the red one already

[pulsar minnow]

isnt the green felcycle supposed to get flying added to it later tho?

[deep pawn]

That was a rumor, but I think the unlocked stuff is just minor stuff

or maybe they just haven't finished the right code yet

[upper pasture]

not all the torches have been lit yet so who knows

[deep pawn]

they've made it shoot fireworks and lay an egg so far

[fathom idol]

I think the remaining orbs might potentially unlock the purple version, which I believe is Ratts' own cycle.

[rose escarp]

At this point, it’s been pretty much confirmed that we’ve reached the end for Incognitro, but there’s certainly a lot of setup for more, later on. Maybe, if we’re lucky, 11.1.0.

[pulsar minnow]

Well one thing to keep in mind is that the fel cycle doesn’t have a mount special when you press space while standing still and just jumps instead. Like how dragonriding mounts work

[ember blaze]

where ptr 😡

[clear apex]

Blizzard is still on vacation

[little hound]

Tinker cope is so wasted Every expansion reveal: "TINKER CLASS? PLAYABLE OGRES?!" Never happening.

And Player Housing? VERY Welcome. I just hope we can buy Bigger Houses / Properties for Gold.

[ember blaze]

player housing was the cope of every expac too

[little hound]

True, heard more nagging for Tinkers/Ogres though.

[rain cave]

to be fair a lot of the cope was because we had no hints

whereas tinkers literally had a spot in that survey, and they've been planting the seeds that would allow that version of tinker to exist similarly to how they've been setting up other races to access all classes

[little hound]

Can't wait for "Elven Allied Race nr 100" in Midnight..

[silent urchin]

voidier elves

[rain cave]

"how do we do paladins for all races? Not every race has a paladin order."
"behold an order of paladins that is multi race and follow tyr, with a troll and kultiran as part of that"

[little hound]

Wish they'd chill on ALLIED Races and just bring back new Races/Classes per expansion, like they used to.

[rain cave]

I'm happy for them to do allied races if it means we get things we otheriwse wouldn't

like mok'nathal, broken draenei or whatever

[rain cave]

depends in you judge naga as elven

though ethereals might also appear playable

[ember blaze]

we're getting that number 100 this expac with the elf/troll mix 😂

[rain cave]

nah I view it less as an elf race and more of

"please for the love of god have a troll race you'll actually play"

by catering it more towards general aesthetic compared to trolls whilst being unique in a different way

aka making trolls that look a bit more elfy and don't have hunchbacks and giant tusks

I will say zandalari would be one of my favourite races to play if we could hide the tusks in helmet transmogs

[little hound]

They've rushed out too damn many allied races, lmao. Half of them look bad with MASSIVE Shoulder mogs too.

[ember blaze]

the problem is when resources go towards what is essentially a skin color or tattoo addition

[little hound]

[ember blaze]

here are blood elves, but purple this time.

[rain cave]

so you'd rather not have more options?

as in you only want them to expand the race list if it's new models and skeletons etc

[ember blaze]

I would rather they be what they should have been and just a # on the character creation screen like a hairstyle change

like we didnt need a whole new "race" for draeneis to choose that demon color

[rain cave]

say what you want about void elves but they enabled playable high elves for alliance

[ember blaze]

thats fair i just dont like it taking away from introducing something more unique we dont actually have yet

[little hound]

I'd rather have 100 more Customization options, rather than 2-5 new allied races.

[little hound]

You can just customize Void Elves to look 100% Like high elves..

[rain cave]

that's my point

but without void elves that option wouldn't be on alliance

now if you want to say "oh but why not just have highelves playable as the race instead" that's a different convo

but even then, that would just be an allied race, same rig

[ember blaze]

it sucks if copy pasted "race" additions take away from work being done on say ethereals as a playable option

[clear apex]

i want more customization for existing races. we have allied now that have more than base ones

but i still want haranir, ethereal would be cool too but i dont think theyd do that, there is no femal/type 2 body type and even dracthyr, though androgynous lizards, have visage forms for lady type

[ember blaze]

i think the new models that got datamined had 2 ethereal models

[clear apex]

Idk i think it looks like skinny man model
has pecs

[rain cave]

I mean a lot of the allied races were things people wanted

and in a lot of ways I don't think allied races detract work from a main xpac box race

[deep pawn]

The only allied race I'd say that failed is mechagnomes.

[rain cave]

why would bandage people need boobs

[deep pawn]

The ethereal models are very much pre baked in armor. It's not an immediate no, but as we saw with Nightborne the actual playable ethereals would likely be disappointing

[rain cave]

but yeah if they were working on something like ethereals for a main xpac race that would be concepted and go through a much stricter pre-production and production pipeline. Whereas the allied races have usually been things we already have.

or were going to be present regardless

[deep pawn]

I still think it's Naga for midnight.

[rain cave]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[deep pawn]

Cause the last time they added two new full races was Cata.

And the WoD model revamp is part of why the expansion had so much cut content

[rain cave]

you could argue that naga and ethereals wouldn't actually be the equivalent to 2 full races like that

Ethereals are present regardless, so they are more akin to an allied race

Naga would probably have some kind of form change associated with them, so their main naga form would be like dracthyr and not require as much armour rigging and can also be based on the existing naga stuff they have at least in some form

and if they had a visage form that would probably take the nelf skeleton

so it's not like Cata where they introduced 2 new races with completely new rigs. the playable worgen especially were completely different from the original worgen

but even goblins got a comprehensive skeleton overhaul

also reminder they hired a BUNCH of new artists specifically for worldsoul saga from the that spellbound game

or w/e it was called

[tulip sun]

I love allied races and how they function

Adding playable races that share similarities to others we otherwise never would get to play as

And I don't think customization options is a suitable alternative for them

[upper pasture]

Spellbreak but yes

[clear apex]

I mean, they don't, but then why do they need defined pecs

Usually they only add races that have female models as well and usually kids (dracthyr being the exception)

Naga would be neat, but I'd have to see a 2 legged option for them. It just seems to weird, to me, that they'd always slither around or how they'd ride mounts

[deep pawn]

My head canon is they'd get a few "chariot" mounts that they can use in Naga form, but other mounts will require illusion form.

[rain cave]

we've got dracthyr as well as "races evolving to become more humanoid" as recent things so that's where the idea of them having a "naga" form and an "elf-like" form comes from

and I'd be on board if they had night elf forms with scales and tentacles

[deep pawn]

I'm totally down for fish scaley night elf models

[clear apex]

Oh I agree with you on that, and nelf skelly for em

[rain cave]

maybe even snouts like how the nose option for visage forms have em

[deep pawn]

Fish scales that are shiny would be a pretty customization option.

[clear apex]

i want more visages for dracthyr

i dont want to play as a 'human' lady

[rain cave]

reserve the name

[rain cave]

I'd like us to just be able to stamp a scale and eye texture on any race as an option

even if it's not a "visage" and more of earning some draconic power on any race

but the time for that has passed it seems

sadge

[clear apex]

I hope they'll do more with dracthyr visages since their 'well they've met others who are mages, warriors, etc, so they learned that in the last couple years' story excuse

Though in game it didnt start that way since you wake from stasis and just are that class now without having been an evoker

[rain cave]

personally I'm hoping we just eventually get magic/cosmology customisations for every race

as the game moves towards showing races and conflict more in that light

here's how the void impact mortals, the lights effect on cultures, races being descendants from order constructs, etc

we're seeing a lot of cosmology at a personal level and allied races also have a lot of magical influences like that, nightborne, highmountain, lightfoged, void elves, even earthen and dracthyr

so having the option to go "I want my human to have a little void customisation" even if it's just something extremely small

or here's what a lightbound orc would look like, giving them glowing eyes and some tattoos

[sleek solar]

Wtf???? They made it all standalone items?????

Even with the complaints about getting too little Traders Tender with those high prices what the fuck

At least make the skirt with and without wraps 1 item

[deep pawn]

they're relatively cheap at least

I'm not sure if I'm gonna get it cause sunny is so yellow

[sleek solar]

I wanted it, but it those boots suck

[rain cave]

I wish there was just a bit more colour variation in some of these trading post bits

like the hoods and shoulders, tabards

but especially on this war skirt piece

should it not be more like slightly dyed leather?

with perchance some metal studs

idk

[ember blaze]

really? source?

[rain cave]

just search up spellbreak and the studio that made it

blizz hired loads of them

[tropic trail]

Shame the previous items from last month expired

I only bought dynamite 🧨

[clear apex]

an annoying thing is the thigh highs are only with the one skirt

i dont like it on anyone ive tried it on, makes your booty look massive

[ember blaze]

the skirt comes with a BBL? sign me up

[clear apex]

it does!

i posted this in retail channel

she either got a bbl or a diaper on

[rain cave]

I mean does that not make sense?

the tail would be coming out of the bottom of her back where things would get widest and then it would just fall vertically down over that. It is a loose war skirt after all, like gladiator style

it's not going to be a pencil style skirt that hugs inwards

[clear apex]

skirts dont work that way or all women would be walking around with a massive gap between their butt and fabric

[rain cave]

?

but what I described isn't that

[clear apex]

the love witch skirts make sense because of fabric type, this one does not

[rain cave]

I'm saying that skirt IS touching the butt lmao

and then just falling down vertically

[clear apex]

it is but it's not modeled past that how a real skirt works

[rain cave]

idk what you mean

keep in mind these are like

that is what this is

it's not a casualwear skirt

[clear apex]

I know what theyre supposed to be
in game even the backside of the skirt is weirdly modeled and thick
they meshed it to just go off butt size and it's not fitting the way it normally would.
Unless that thing is stiff unworked leather it should still not have such a massive gap between her leg and fabric.

They have this issue with the earthen belts on female dwarf too, the belt floats in front of the stomach bc its meshed for a different belly

[rain cave]

I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing

lines are the side profile of the body underneath, blue is what you're describing to me I think but red is roughly what the body is, no?

[ember blaze]

kinda hate we got yellow first for these..

[deep pawn]

Maybe pink is next month.

I'm probably not buying anything this month.

The clockwork set isn't my aesthetic and the mounts are too expensive

[rain cave]

I'm going to get the green set and the gold gauntlet probably

the gauntlet purely because funny vi transmog is a thing I could do with it

[tropic trail]

I think it’s normal.

[sleek solar]

Same xD

Wanted black first

[deep pawn]

I really hate all the m+ changes datamined so far

No one thought these dungeons were too easy last time we had them

PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF A MILLION MECHANICS

[silent urchin]

seems fine to me

looks like a better fight on the first boss in workshop

should be much better pacing to it

ofc we still have to see what the actual timers are

[deep pawn]

I disagree, killing those two at the same time, removing armor more than once, cleaves, bombs spawning.

Every fight is getting crap added to it and people are reaching points where it's just too much to learn across 8 dungeons and 32 bosses

I'm ready for Blizzard's promised back down on complexity. I'll take the addons nerfs but come on.

[opaque pewter]

I actually really enjoy this season

[deep pawn]

I wish I had. This is the least amount of m+ I've done since BfA when I quit.

Raid was neat, I love delves

M+ i just couldn't enjoy. I hate the Xal affixes and random one shots.

[opaque pewter]

I feel pretty well served right now. They did talk about the underserved midcore, which I completly am part of

[deep pawn]

I'm midcore too I feel but I feel like they made dungeons harder than the raid

Tanks and healers are quitting at higher rates than ever.

[opaque pewter]

Maybe what is really missing thing is a raid-like pass-fail introduced in another mode
The issue might be that people expects dungeons to be a given and sorta freebie

Right now, my small 5-man core group is enjoying all the coordination needed and planned to time keys

[austere gazelle]

At least its not an AOE / CLEAVE feast in melee like most of the DF dungeon were

I'm looking at you Nokhud. the undead part in melee was just praying to not get OS by the thousands swirlies on the grounds

[deep pawn]

It feels the same to me if not harder.

[iron hare]

I love this season lol

And honestly I'm excited for s2, these are some of my favorite dungeons ever

[upper pasture]

eh, feels like you're doing more IE doing the affix rather than just stacking everything up and hoping you don't get slapped by a swirlie

[iron hare]

Workshop motherload and top are like all personal S tier

And cinderbrew meadery Is my favorite tww dungeon

Don't forget a new dungeon too which ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Rookery will be nice and short

[deep pawn]

I wish I could be excited, I just don't like the direction they've taken dungeon design and rewards

It's just mental overload vs being a peon in the raid and doing what's called out

a dps in a raid can have like a single responsibility each fight.

[iron hare]

Idk I like lots of mechanics

[deep pawn]

a dps in a dungeon has responsibilties every single god damn trash pull.

[iron hare]

I live in the chaos

But also like I don't rlly push high keys so I just vibe

[upper pasture]

is that not sorta the point of doing the harder content in a smaller group tho?

[deep pawn]

I feel like there was better balance in the past.

[iron hare]

Honestky my biggest complaint this season is that ahn kahet should have been there instead of grim batol

I like that 4 dungeons are mechanical/goblin themed cause of the undermine I'm a sucker for theme

[deep pawn]

I just don't like not enjoying m+ cause that was my end game for 3 straight expansions cause I can't always commit to a raid schedule.

So I'm feeling left out now that keys are unenjoyable mechanic slogs for 30 minutes and less rewards than a raid boss.

[iron hare]

I feel you I'm 7/8 heroic and I've only done that on pugs

I would love to kill queen but people in pugs are dumb

[sullen dawn]

delves and transmog is my endgame these days

[upper pasture]

don't worry people in guilds can be dumb too

[deep pawn]

why the hell would I do 4 keys below +10 when I can just do 4 delves, solo, without having to risk other human beings for the exact same ilvl vault.

The time investment required for keys is just massively skewed right now

I fully believe m+ vaults should change to 1/3/6 at the most.

I'd be down for 1/2/4

6 raid bosses is a joke compared to 8 keys

[iron hare]

Delves need a story

I want them to be more like scenarios from mop

[upper pasture]

because this isn't solely a single player game and you are encourged to form bonds with others? but i do agree i hate doing 8 M+s each week for a full vault

[iron hare]

They're not engaging to me everything just feels more bloated

[deep pawn]

I don't feel rewarded for forming bonds to do m+

[iron hare]

At least dungeons are fun and have stuff going on

[deep pawn]

I feel punished for chosing the activity that takes 3 times the investment for the same rewards

[upper pasture]

same itmlvl sure but different loot pools if your fishing for catalysting items sure but trinkets and rings? from delves? naw

[ember blaze]

yeah 8 sucks lol

[deep pawn]

done the main guest relations questline

crates and side quests now

[deep pawn]

I don't know which char I'll do the felcycle on

[sleek solar]

Warlock

Or DH

[deep pawn]

why DH?

[sleek solar]

Idk, fel related xD

[deep pawn]

The most expensive thing would be ugh, the 25k for the pug costume haha

non warlock only costs 500g

I'm really torn cause it's just a ground mount right now haha

if they add flying to it in 11.1 or midnight, there'll be a new wave of folks then

[ember blaze]

give it the new patch car stuff

[deep pawn]

sure, but just a generic ground mount that's a recolor, it's a lot of work.

[sleek solar]

Yeah I got to same with the red version

I love it but rarely use it

[deep pawn]

This is the first really involved secret mount that's not totally unique

Like Hivemind still has nothing else really like it

[ember blaze]

nzoth mount 🤔

[deep pawn]

same skeleton, different model

You turn into this

You ride the other octopus mounts, N'zoth one all void eye

Hivemind actually requires a group of other people so it's one of the harder ones to get

[ember blaze]

will probably never bother with it

[deep pawn]

I'm sure most of us here know lol

[pulsar minnow]

Lucid nightmare

[sleek solar]

Im actually cryingh

[rose escarp]

Such a great little sendoff to the voice actor ❤️

[clear apex]

I didn't know she passed, now I'm sad

[sleek solar]

Yep 😦

She passed on 26 April 2023

[ember blaze]

ptr next week surely

[deep pawn]

Has to be if patch launches in February

Will be the shortest major patch ptr ever

[silent urchin]

from tuesday it's 8 weeks til the 25th of feb, the most likely patch date

that's as long as any other ptr

[deep pawn]

I'm getting 6 weeks. Release candidates in like 5.

It's 7 weeks from the 7th to the 25th and I'm expecting PTR on Thursday

[dense plover]

considering the modifications for ringing deeps was something they were working on during ALPHA, im sure theyve done TONS of internal testing

[deep pawn]

They are losing a lot of good will from buggy stuff.

The rare tag cap and the mount issue are just the most recent examples

Another bug this reset broke camera turning

[upper pasture]

“Mount issue”?

The camera turning thing happens like once an expansion too it seems like.

[deep pawn]

The new peafowl trading post mount was bugged to not dynamic fly. They actually did hotfix on their holiday but still adds to the "worst quality control" expansion stuff

[upper pasture]

It was hotfixed in like what? 24hours?

It was fixed before I even knew it was a problem

[vestal beacon]

https://fixupx.com/MistweaverLily/status/1875314981857849664

[deep pawn]

Still long enough for a reddit post and greater awareness

[silent urchin]

every expansion is the buggiest cause no one remembers how bad previous expansions were

[deep pawn]

Or people are just tired of it. So are conflating less testing and a smaller support team to worse game

I still think 11.0.5 having 0 main story in it at all was massive miss.

I like the teasers Siren Isle has given us but most people see regurgitated timegated slop

[silent urchin]

It's meant to be something that you can skip

[clear apex]

Im more reminded of early episodes of daredevil for that face mask

[deep pawn]

That case you've had no new main expansion content for 6 months when 11.1 launches. That feels like backsliding

[rain cave]

https://tenor.com/view/wind-windy-bag-gif-7951907

[upper pasture]

I mean, bugs happen and you usually remember the most recent stuff. Well because it’s affecting you now.

No sane person expects everything to be completely bug free

[deep pawn]

I think people are expecting less obvious issues like flags on rares and mounts

[upper pasture]

And sometimes shit happens, no reason to get upset over a mount being “non functional” for 24 hours and didn’t they also fix the rare tag thing quickly too? I’m not saying it’s okay that it happens but it happening isn’t the end of the world

[ember blaze]

the dude that drops the gems everyone wanted was bugged for like a week or more lol

[upper pasture]

They were also on holiday, that was also the only thing in recent time I could consider mildly annoying.

But that’s because they hotfixed the time gated gems from weekly to grindable and probably didn’t test it before hotfixing it and leaving.

[iron hare]

I agree on this more then anything

Tww had such an amazing start then everything completely went to a halt

[tropic trail]

Ninja turtle 🐢

[sullen dawn]

The engines should restart next month

[austere gazelle]

perfect for a DH 💅

[clear apex]

Yalll....

[deep pawn]

Combine that with the bandit masks on an orc

[clear apex]

I want the spiky shell for bowser mog

[autumn relic]

I hope Blizz scales these up a bit larger

[austere gazelle]

I've a weird buff on my DH. The turn left and right are awfully slow and its kinda problematic to move in combat, when I switch on a toon it works perfectly and then I return on my DH and it's corrected. If I logout and Login the " bug " is here again. driving me crazy cause I reseted all my options and it does not go away

( and disabling all addons does not correct the issue too, so it's clearly an in game bug somehow)

[silent urchin]

Use /console turnspeed 180

For whatever reason it got set to 1 in some cases with the patch, apparently

180 is the default, can be changed up or down

[austere gazelle]

thank you, it was driving me crazy

[austere gazelle]

First time that kind of stuff happens since I started playing in alpha vanilla xD

[deep pawn]

It is a bug with this reset I think. I got it on my mage after a warden disconnect in a tree. DHs are kings of false warden disconnects so I wouldn't be shocked it if DHs experience it more.

[silent urchin]

I had it on PTR, but not on live

although if it can happen randomly then maybe. I know there's been some weirdness about saving settings in general lately

[clear apex]

RIP any new players

[sleek solar]

It was to be expected

[deep pawn]

I mean some of the rewards like the baby blizzard bear had been gone for over a decade

[silent urchin]

the vendor literally said he wouldn't return for at least 5 years the entire time

[sullen dawn]

Yeh but some people didn't believe it for some reason

[rain cave]

big brain play is to keep your bronze so you can spend it in 5 years

on the new items

[uncut vault]

5 years from now: Introducing celebration silver!

[rain cave]

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrate-gif-22469816

[ember blaze]

LMAO

[deep pawn]

They literally said bronze won't be used again.

[sullen dawn]

I think I'm just missing the fire elemental pet and balloon toy now

I'll level an alt through TW tomorrow evening and buy them

[deep pawn]

I've had everything for weeks now. I've gotten so many timewalking badges

[ember blaze]

PTR DAY?

https://tenor.com/view/fucking-rage-gif-15522310

[sullen dawn]

I've been unsubbed since early November so had catching up to do

[sullen dawn]

Unlikely. Maybe if things are basically ready to go and they just needed people at work in case there's issues

But should be this week

[silent urchin]

monday would be strange but then everything about this PTR has been

[sullen dawn]

Not impossible yeh, I just expect it mid week

[torn cloud]

When are we thinking 11.1 will actually release? Feb 25th? Or even later?

[silent urchin]

feb 25th seems like a good bet

although even if that's blizz's target it can always change

[torn cloud]

I personally hope it won't be too soon. I'm a bit tempted to think we're looking at 3 season per xpak, but I am probably massively wrong about that. At least, that's what I hope. We've got Timewalking all the time anywayz.
I'll admit I just hope for more time to sit on my PvP MMR to secure a final push towards my decade-long goals 😛
and the lack of communication before the "Two weeks left" announcement is a bit annoying.
With that being said, Plunderstorm lasting til Feb 14th and the PTR having not opened yet do make End of Feb into March far more likely. I think some people have been stress-mongering on various platforms when they say it'll be sooner than that.

[harsh mason]

That's not how it works a little bit. They have their own schedule for each season (5-6 months). During these 5-6 months during the season, content related to this season is released. There have always been 3 major "acts" (raid tiers, whatever you want to call them). But usually in the first act (raid tier) there were 2!!!! the season. This was the case before SL

In TWW, as I understand it, there will be 3 seasons (1 season for each act)

[torn cloud]

That's exactly what I was thinking, but more simply because they said the expansions will be shorter.
Thanks for the analysis though. 😄
So do you think we're right about the 'End of February or beginning of March' estimate?

[harsh mason]

They never said that expansion would be shorter. It was about the fact that after the final major patch (in which the plot ends) there will be less time before the release of the new expansion. That is, TWW will have a full set of content, as in each expansion: 3 large raid content and medium intermediate patches.

I think 11.1 will be released in mid-February.

The exceptions was Draenor (2 raid content) and bfa (4 raid content)

I remember back in the days of BfA, people really thought that Azshara was the final boss and 8.2.5 was the final of the company, but 8.3 came as a surprise (well, as for me, 8.3 came out messy and unfinished)

As if it were superfluous

[clear apex]

They didn't say the expac would be shorter but the time between them would be.
*still as much story, less down time

And that tlt would end before 2030

Also no more season 4 stuff with awakened raids

[torn cloud]

In the middle of Plunderstorm? Or probably the 25th?

[oak dust]

I’m feeling around week 2/3 February

[deep pawn]

Plunderstorm ends 2/18 right now, but The Great Push ends the following weekend

[iron hare]

feel lke it will be wednesday

[sullen dawn]

Almost definitely 3 seasons per expansion of midnight a launching in February 2026

*if

Which seems likely if player housing is in December 2025

[deep pawn]

December prepatch seems nuts but could happen

Or they somehow sneak housing into 11.2.7 like allied races

Regardless I expect it's part of the preorder bonus and execs are gonna love ir

[deep pawn]

A December prepatch would imply like an August alpha or concurrent with 11.2 opening

[clear apex]

Didn't it show the midnight stuff for late autumn? Like beta?

I know it had housing as possibly looking like November

[upper pasture]

they showed a "deep dive" for summer 2025

(for midnight)

[deep pawn]

Expansion reveal was on the road map

[clear apex]

ah forgot it was the reveal

[deep pawn]

We presume that's around alpha

[clear apex]

but yeah housing is shown as winter (2025)

winter doesnt start until dec 21st, but they could mean november

I assume then housing for 11.2.7

[deep pawn]

It's possible. Housing feels like a bigger system than they would want to add in a .7 with no beta testing but they've been testing less and less.

One dev on Twitter said they were hired two years ago to specifically work on the housing system.

[silent urchin]

huh if dungeon testing starts tomorrow maybe we are getting PTR today

[sullen dawn]

Looks like tomorrow for PTR

[sullen dawn]

Haha was just about to say. Either late today or early tomorrow

[silent urchin]

starts at 10am which would be very early for a PTR rollout to be finished

[sullen dawn]

That is what I think

August deep dive and alpha. Housing December, prepatch Jan, midnight around Valentine's day

Im not sure if housing will be marketed as part of .2.7 or an "early portion" of prepatch. Either way I think it'll basically "unlock" in December but the patch containing the data will probably be 11.2.7

[deep pawn]

I am positive it'll require midnight

That q4 sales surge will be nuts

[sullen dawn]

Yeh, but the availability can be with preorder

[deep pawn]

That's what I said haha

[sullen dawn]

Ah I didn't see that

Yeh I agree

[iron hare]

yay!

[ember blaze]

what other game did they work on? 👀

[silent urchin]

one of the co-founders of proletariat seems to be on the housing team, as principal designer

[clear apex]

I dont think itll require midnight, but rather an 'early access' thing if you buy the right tier and get to test it, where everyone else gets it later

they made it sound like its for everyone and having to buy the latest expac is not that

[deep pawn]

Raid testing schedule out

Main raid testing all done this month

Maybe February 18th is it and they make tgp finals play on 11.1

[austere gazelle]

I... am not thrilled with this.. PTR isn't even up, new talents and skill and tiers set are not even changed or there isn't any feedback yet, but they are testing the raid and dungeon before that?

way to scrup up balancing

But I guess we'll wait and see...

[deep pawn]

Eh?

Testing usually starts pretty fast. Ptr is up tonight or first thing tomorrow

[iron hare]

Uhh

[austere gazelle]

hopefully there will be some deeper changes to the class made with tomorrow's patch. DH is loosing 80% damages

[iron hare]

isnt vexie the first boss

oh i assume they change it for gallywix

[ember blaze]

and why is letting players play with the changes/tier sets first a bad thing

[austere gazelle]

For some class it is, I dont know for all the classes obviously

[silent urchin]

They're mostly testing mechanical aspects of the fights

they could do it with scaled up level 1 characters if they really wanted, for the most part

[austere gazelle]

true

but for the hp pool numbers and dps I don't think it'll be reliable, if it was ever reliable to being with, seeing all the nerf made after patches went live

[deep pawn]

Actual tuning isn't until the end of the ptr anyways

If not on seasonal reset

[harsh mason]

Vexie is like the first boss. If so, then the order of bosses has been strangely made in the LFR again.

How it was at Castle Nathria

[silent urchin]

I think it's got a lot of weird routing so not surprised

[deep pawn]

Remember in Amirdrassil you did Smolderon in the first wing

[iron hare]

Hopefully its changed cause of gallywix

[iron hare]

that was so dumb

[deep pawn]

Only way you get the two side wings as their own things

[harsh mason]

To be honest, considering that there is now a story mod just to see the raid finale, there is no sense at all in lfr, this mode needs to be removed a long time ago.

[deep pawn]

Story Mode is still just one boss

Lfr is the way most people see the fights at all

Raids would be like 4 bosses without lfr

[clear apex]

Keep both. Lfr is good for people who want to see it all and not just the end.
Id like to see a little more of story stuff in story mode aside from the last boss

SM doesn't even give gear iirc

[iron hare]

it dont

dosent

story mode dosent count, lfr allowes to see players the full story in a risk calm way without dealing with the pressure of a normal group

[sleek solar]

Whoop

Yeahhhh

[silent urchin]

LFR frequently lacks a whole bunch of the voice lines, though, and if the new one is gonna be a bit out of order it probably makes even less sense

not that many people pay attention to those anyway, and subsequently come up with real weird ideas of what the raid was meant to be

[iron hare]

yeah i hate that change

[iron hare]

they should just fix it instead of getting rid of it tho

[silent urchin]

Yeah, that's kinda what I hoped story mode would be

something where you can go at your own pace and watch all the RP without having to bother with all the other stuff you're normally busy with in a raid

[iron hare]

yeah, plus they got rid of literally all the mechanics

which like yeah i get but it def affects it as the big climatic finale

[silent urchin]

I think that's partly an ansurek thing cause getting the follower NPCs to behave on platforms might be a nightmare

hopefully the goblin one is a bit closer to the real thing

[deep pawn]

I think for a story mode it was the right length. The platforms add nothing to the story.

Hell they add nothing to the fight even on heroic for me.

[iron hare]

Presentation

[deep pawn]

Then it completely failed its point to me. I found them pointless as hell

[ember blaze]

rip ptr today

[deep pawn]

It's come up later but yeah

[uncut vault]

visual storytelling

we're "Ascending" in the same way she did, and as we go further and further up the platforms, the mechanics slowly shift from natural nerubian venoms and poisons to void mechanics

until we reach her top platform and its all void as she screams about how her people failed her and are nothing but food for her ascension now

story mode misses that dialogue, along with all the growing paranoia from her as you progress through the raid

[deep pawn]

It still felt like padding. You start that phase against a void knock up and ended the same way

I can't see the boss cause she's behind me

The platform phase of rasz was my least favorite too

[opaque pewter]

Yeah the encounter is a paranoia escalation. It would have been nice if it was presented to people just doing story mode. As is, it falls a bit flat and misses some key pulses

[little hound]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/lord-ibelin-redmoore-new-tribute-npc-to-mats-ibelin-steen-in-patch-11-1-359767

❤️

[deep pawn]

I still think it fell flat, you got the paranoia from the earlier bosses, that phase just didn't give that feeling. Maybe it does on mythic.

[ember blaze]

man, plunderstorm really isnt coming out this week

thats very lame

[deep pawn]

nah, this week is turbulent timeways

[upper pasture]

and that dalaran questline

[silent urchin]

questline is neat. Conversation at the end of the cutscene as expected, as well as a new stay a while and listen on khadgar

end of questline convo:

Khadgar stay a while and listen:

[tulip sun]

I still don't love it

No confirmation on the rest of the council of six. Jaina taking over.

[sullen dawn]

Also newtering the kiron tor effectively

[harsh mason]

Modera is alive, but I don't think it matters now, since Kirin-Tor no longer exists, most of the magicians are dead, and the faction has been destroyed.

[last wren]

mhh I don't know tbh, I kinda like that the kirin tor will change

[last wren]

so like all the ppl we saw during the cutscene of the questline and the boats going into the sky is all that's left I guess ?

[harsh mason]

That is, literally the Kirin Tor was destroyed, now they will create a new institution. I understand that the new statement will not focus on the army, as it was in the Kirin Tor

[silent urchin]

They imply there's a lot more that didn't respond to the missive from Aethas. Aethas, Jaina and Khadgar are still all very powerful mages, they'll probably attract more people in time

[sullen dawn]

Yeh, hardly even an institution to be honest

[last wren]

yeah alright, thanks for the clarification

[sullen dawn]

I don't think they'll ever play a significant role again

[tulip sun]

If she is then it's a glaring hole that's she's missing in the questline

[last wren]

who is modera ? That names is ringing a bell but not so sure

[tulip sun]

One of the council of six

I don't like the direction overall they went with it. Just letting the Dalaran society die out. And Jaina of all people being in charge of what remnants there are of the kirin tor?

And absolutely no mention of the council of six. Dead or alive

[harsh mason]

It's still very funny that Xal literally did what the Lich King or Legion should have done logically: there's a flying base city of your enemy hovering above you, why didn't you even try to destroy it?

Okay, Legion tried, but only 1 time.

[upper pasture]

Isn’t she the one who “made” Khadgars wheelchair?

[silent urchin]

Yes, but we don't know anything else about what she's up to

[last wren]

well yeah, that makes sense from a villain perspective

[last wren]

wait, how do we know that ? I think I missed a lot recently lol

[upper pasture]

It was part of the stay awhile and listen after the 11.05 stuff?

[silent urchin]

Alleria's stay a while and listen after the end of the 11.0.5 questline

Archmage Khadgar says: That seems terribly inconvenient, if you ask me. I much prefer this chair.
Alleria Windrunner says: Could that be because Archmage Modera designed it for you herself?
Archmage Khadgar says: Why Alleria, whatever are you implying?```

[last wren]

ahh yeah

well I forgot that

thanks

[sullen dawn]

PTR in 2 hours aye?

[upper pasture]

Tbh a lot of the mages are probably scared of Xal and aren’t gonna come out of hiding until someone else deals with that problem

[last wren]

won't be until a long time imo

[upper pasture]

Aside from a few prominent mages of course

[silent urchin]

PTR whenever PTR is up, I don't think the dungeon test start time was the actual time they were targeting, it'll just be ready whenever PTR is

[sullen dawn]

kind of odd to say it's starting then then

[iron hare]

i hope so

i hope the undermine is huge

it looked a lil small on the map

i just cant wait to see it

[silent urchin]

it seemed pretty big, and there's also the bit next to the ringing deeps as new areas

[harsh mason]

Stop dramatizing, the fact that it is explicitly stated about her that she is alive makes it pretty clear that there is a reason why she is not in the plot. It's not a theory that she's alive, it's a fact voiced by Khadgar.

[upper pasture]

Huh?

[tulip sun]

Not sure who that is to. But her and the rest of the council not being mentioned in the questline is a glaring hole to me. I stand by that statement.

Since they were the rulers of Dalaran and the kirin tor. And now it's just decided it's Jaina?

Which makes little sense if any of them are alive

[upper pasture]

Unless of course they are trying to hide information from Xal

[tulip sun]

Posssssiblyy? I have loved this expansion so far, this is the only thing that I saw that makes me turn my head

It's odd

The lack of the true leaders of dalaran in any of TWW. Jaina of all people leading the survivors when she is Lord Admiral of another nation. It's just meh.

[sleek solar]

11.1 Anduin and Tess die, so Jaina takes Stormwind and Gilneas aswell

[tulip sun]

Likenat least say they're dead if you don't wanna include em

[uncut vault]

it's funny because beyond the slight meme gimmick with Vargoth, I don't think anyone would be particularly broken up over Ansirem or Karlain dying lol

they're both easy names to put on the list of casualties, but instead they're just not even mentioned

[lone mantle]

Dalaran has risen from the ashes of destruction and shall rise again! The Kirin Tor's legacy is one of resilience, their will unyielding even against the void itself!

[tulip sun]

Exactly it's so odd.

Why not confirm one way or the other

[zealous sedge]

anyone else having trouble with the kirin tor questline?

I don't even see the beginning quest

do i need to finish lingering shadows first?

[clear apex]

Kirin Tor shall have no council ...but myself, meryl and Aethas will still ....be a council to teach others.

and yeah I dont like Jaina leading. Let Horde have some more people in the spotlight

[upper pasture]

and don't forget khadgar when he comes back

[clear apex]

oh yeah so a council from 6 to 4 now (maybe 5)

silly

[uncut vault]

You do, yes

[zealous sedge]

ty

[uncut vault]

they made the Kirin Tor quest MSQ, so it requires the main story to be completed first

[clear apex]

saying no more council, then just deciding on Jaina and still having the same people lead still makes a council

[sleek solar]

THIS!!!!!!!

[tulip sun]

Tbh I would've preferred no faction people in the position. Dalaran should be a neutral third party and be explored as such.

They had 5 other major mages on the council they can add depth to

[ionic terrace]

build is out

[iron hare]

Woooooooo

[clear apex]

that would be better as well

[royal adder]

Anyone else not able to connect?

[iron hare]

Any shots of undermine yet

[last wren]

I mean I kinda like Jaina in some way (can't really describe it tho) but yeah, for the kirin-Tor idk, it's such an important faction, or was at least. If jaina take the lead let's just say the horde will have quarrels with a lot of mages. I'm going a little bit too far for lore exactitude but I see it that way

[clear apex]

I definitely think KT should have a horde and alliance centric person to stand as equals
That or they need to be completely outside of the factions. Which Dalaran was kinda supposed to be?

Aethas sounded like an after thought in that dialogue

[upper pasture]

raid testing is tomorrow so it's likely they can't even zone in yet

[deep pawn]

Aethas and Jaina were the horde and alliance main mages for a while

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Portergauge/status/1876725315550015732 you can follow Portergauge! he is in Undermine already

Portergauge 🏳️‍🌈 (@Portergauge) on X

Okay, playthrough of whatever's available for 11.1's main story quest on the PTR, here be spoilers.

Looks like Alleria is being left behind again for this one, full focus on the goblins + Orweyna.

Twitter · Jan 7, 2025, 8:19 PM

[iron hare]

Any dungeon journal stuff

[last wren]

Yeah I 100% agree, but I'd prefer a complete independent faction. Having a horde and alliance leading will make issues one day

[upper pasture]

I mean, that’s sorta the point no? Why write a story and box yourself into a corner. With Jaina leading the KT that’s a potential plot thread than not having that

[last wren]

Oh my god that's a long ass thread lol

[last wren]

Well yeah

[upper pasture]

Much like whoever was upset that the “MCs” make dumb decisions. Well if they made smart ones we’d have less to do as players

[last wren]

MCs ?

[upper pasture]

Main characters

[last wren]

Ah yeah

I agree haha

[upper pasture]

Like thrall Anduin and Val

[clear apex]

I think keeping her like that just feels predictable and not exciting.
Be like Genn and hand the mantle off.

There's still plot that can happen with establishing new leaders.
And unsure how then being mobile is gonna work exactly

[last wren]

MCs are like really powerull too

If you look at it 😂

[clear apex]

That's my preference and understand that it's not everyone's idea of a good time

[upper pasture]

I mean, they could be setting up to kill her off, a lot of fresh new blood coming in since DF and if certain MCs aren’t leaving they could be being set up to leave the hard way

[clear apex]

Shouldn't she be back in kul tiras anyways?

[last wren]

Idk, I don't really like new characters since BFA. Some in SL I liked like the ventyr but other than that no, and I didn't like DF at all haha

[sullen dawn]

BFA had awesome new characters yeh

Bwomsamdi, Rastakhan, Talanji, Katherine

Even Lady Ashvane was interesting

[last wren]

Hell yeah

Even characters from drustvar from example

[sullen dawn]

yeh. Shadowlands characters were the worst the game has ever had imo

and DF were.... passable but not interesting imo

[last wren]

I agree with you, I just liked a real few from SL

[iron hare]

Except for daddy D

[sullen dawn]

TWW has some good ones at least

[iron hare]

The goat

[last wren]

Denathrius lmao

[sullen dawn]

for memes sure, but as an actual addition to wow lore i kinda hate him

[last wren]

I was about to tell him

[sullen dawn]

he ruined dreadlords for me

[iron hare]

They shouldn't have kept him around

[sullen dawn]

he was FUN don't get me wrong, in the context of the raid

[last wren]

Tbh I know he created a bunch of plot but I don't remember it it's so messy lmao

[iron hare]

Also I don't buy denathrius isn't the real lord of dreadlords

Only his son says that

[last wren]

SL lore I swear lmao

[sullen dawn]

i hope he isn't

[iron hare]

It's propaganda

[sullen dawn]

the lore is so bad

[iron hare]

The dreadlord leader wouldn't be so bashful like that

[sullen dawn]

it destroyed so much 😢

[iron hare]

They can fix it

Just make first ones = titans

[sullen dawn]

yeh.... and also having the dreadlords being second fidle to a race thats just one of my many shadowlands races...it feels wrong

[iron hare]

Say to the shadowlands "this is what will happen if the titans win"

[sullen dawn]

dreadlords to me were always supposed to be the 'anti-azerothians', like the opposite of us player mortals

[last wren]

Really bad writing + really messy+ HOW THE HELL WAS IT IMPORTANT????

Sorry-

Like it's actually important but shitty

[iron hare]

Imo the jailer is not only the worst wow villian but the worst villian I've ever seen

[last wren]

Lol yeah

[sullen dawn]

tbf Iridikron is pretty silly too

[iron hare]

Not one intresting thing about him

Iridikron is fun silly

[last wren]

I loved nathria, the raid in itself

[iron hare]

I don't think tww has many good characters

[sullen dawn]

me too

[iron hare]

But I think tww has superb world and culture building

[last wren]

I like hallow fall ppl

[iron hare]

Nerubians arathi earthen feel very real

[sullen dawn]

i haven't been able to take villains seriously since they botched nzoth

[last wren]

Heck yeah

[sullen dawn]

legion through mid/late BFA was peak villain time

[zealous sedge]

SL was just so left field. Like it basically like they wanted these zones desperately but had no idea how to bridge the gap lore wise. They put aestethics in front of the story

[sullen dawn]

yeh....it felt like a fever dream

[iron hare]

Kiljeaden was so good

[sullen dawn]

no cohesion

[last wren]

Yeah, felt really wrong

[zealous sedge]

like i like the aesthetics,, Revendreth, so cool. Maldraxxus. awesome.

[last wren]

• travel time omg

[iron hare]

Shadowlands def feels disconnected

[zealous sedge]

but it was just a hodgepodge of ideas

[sullen dawn]

marshmellow land, buttefly forest land, and vampire duke land

[iron hare]

Bastion is horrific

[sullen dawn]

the only zones that felt warcraft were maldraxxus and the maw

[last wren]

I swear I'll come to US from France to burn you down if you do it again blizz

[iron hare]

Also korthia is and zereth mortis we're awful

[zealous sedge]

like Revendreth could have been a patch in a different expansion down the line

[sullen dawn]

yeh it made me feel ill looking at it

[iron hare]

Two of the worst zones in the game

[sullen dawn]

it would have been more believable on azeroth rather than shadowlands

[zealous sedge]

i didnt mind bastion imo but thats just me

haha

[last wren]

I just loved revendreth-

That's ALL

Lmao

[sullen dawn]

it was cool dont get me wrong, but it felt completely disconnected to anything that was going on. like scipio said, a hodge podge of ideas

i had fun as a shadow priest MCing people off the really high castles before flying was in on war mode

[zealous sedge]

if they wanted shadowlands to work they should've had more hints to afterlife for a few expansions but they just through it together randomly

[last wren]

Yeah, revendreth on it's own is a good idea, and of course adapted to actual good lore

[deep pawn]

Bastion is very calming to me.

[sullen dawn]

any of the zones COULD have been good, in a different context, and slightly more serious/related to wow lore

[zealous sedge]

and obviosuly eliminated the bad lore decisions. the whole premise of shadowlands is misguided

[deep pawn]

Maldraxxus is metal as hell.

I've honestly never been more hyped by a quest moment than the start of Maldraxxus

[sullen dawn]

i believe maldraxxus and the maw were the only zones that felt 'warcraft'

[last wren]

I never really liked Mal

[sullen dawn]

i just mean thematically

[last wren]

Arden was beautiful and bastion okay

[last wren]

Yeah ik, but I don't like Mal in a theme way either lol

[sullen dawn]

revendreth and ardenweald could have been salvagable (for example no stupid butterflies in ardenweald) but bastion was terrible imo

ardenweald should have leaned more into the irish/celtic death mythology that it was going for

[last wren]

I really found the little stone flying things (damn my English) funny

[zealous sedge]

i mean we dont know whats gonna happen with the World Soul Saga but i feel like SL couldve been set up for an awesome opening act for whatever comes after. Because "the player" would really have exposure to the different cosmic forces after we deal with the titans and void, etc

but its too late for that now

[sullen dawn]

that seemed like it was what danuser wanted

a 'cosmic arc'

[last wren]

I think going into the world of death could be a good idea but it have to need a good storytelling, LOL

[zealous sedge]

agreed. but there was no pretense for it we were just thrown in

[sullen dawn]

i prefer the direction we're going now though. it feels like a direct continuation of BFA now. SL is ignored and DF was basically the 'holiday expansion'

[iron hare]

Honestly I'm glad world soul saga is is tying into together

Like nothing really new

[zealous sedge]

its like he really wanted to push WoW beyond azeroth and make it his own. In his hubris tbh

[iron hare]

Goblins ethereals quell Thalas nerubians

[sullen dawn]

yeh just trying to salvage the continuity, exactly

[iron hare]

All things we've faced before

Like we don't need new enemies

[sullen dawn]

it does feel like you can leapfrog from BFA to TWW and not really miss out on the main story

[last wren]

I feel like World soul saga and TWW feel like "more on Earth" like BFA, legion etc compared to SL and DF which I find like "fary and shit", too much dragons brotha 😂🤣

[zealous sedge]

yeah the only thing mising is anduins arc

[iron hare]

And I hope midnight keeps that and so tlt

Amani tribe with tww level culture building will be so good

[sullen dawn]

yes, more grounded

and more 'core warcraft'

[sullen dawn]

basically

[last wren]

Yeah, 100%

[worn crown]

In BfA the only char I really liked was Bwomsandi
The rest was boring, stupid or both at the same time

SL has a ton of side chars from the Covenants and some Brokers I loved, brimming with personality
Main ones in general were kind of meh, except for Denathrius

DF had a few quite interesting and in TWW no one really grabbed my attention so far
Seems like Blizz is trying too hard to write some "special" chars, but it just falls flat for me

Like some former great rock band trying to recapture past glories in a new album by emulating itself
As the saying goes, "no one can go home again", just try something new

I hate nostalgia

[last wren]

I liked BFA exactly for that reason

[iron hare]

I hated nazjatar

It was so bad

[sullen dawn]

BFA was one of my favourite expansions

possibly my favourite

[iron hare]

And I didn't like what they did with zandalar

[sullen dawn]

even with its flaws

[last wren]

"too low ? Nah too high ? DAMN IT"

[sullen dawn]

they screwed up nzoth/the ending though

[iron hare]

When wow was ripping off marvel it hurt me

[last wren]

"WHERE THE FUCK IS THE WORLD QUEST ?????"

[iron hare]

"Zanadalar forever" like F off

[sullen dawn]

lol

zandalar was cool AF though

[iron hare]

It was cool but

[sullen dawn]

and kul tiras

[iron hare]

Too much black panther

[last wren]

Legion and then BFA for me

[iron hare]

Legion was the best

Suramar >>

[sullen dawn]

tbf it mostly just that one quote

[iron hare]

Kiljeaden >>

[last wren]

Hell yeah haha

[iron hare]

Argus >>

Class order halls

Bfa should have done race order halls

Kept it going

[last wren]

I love Mac'aree
Oops Eredath...

[sullen dawn]

im a bit disappointed an'khahet didnt manage to become the next suramar like they said

[last wren]

Yeah

[iron hare]

Azj kahet is my favorite zone of the 4

Yeah there wasn't enough time in the city

Also flying

No flying

[last wren]

It's hallow fall for me

[sullen dawn]

flying shouldnt have been allowed in the main city

[last wren]

Flying killed exploration

[iron hare]

It should be something you instantly unlock at max level

But while leveling no

[ivory meadow]

The way I cringed when I heard that line just... no.

[zealous sedge]

i missed legion 😦

[iron hare]

And then make it account wide

[last wren]

Yeah yeah

[zealous sedge]

im sad i didnt get the full class hall feature

hopefully legion remix so i can experience it

[last wren]

I really liked BFA/ legion and so on because of that, you get flying AFTER you explored everything on foot

[iron hare]

The only thing I don't like about tww is 0.5 having no new story

It made me feel disconnected

But I'm optimistic, I hope breaking the dark heart is the last victory we get for a while

And that was like the intermission as we get to more of metzens stuff

[last wren]

We'll see

[last wren]

Yeah

Eager to see midnight

[zealous sedge]

im hoping we "lose" in undermined

like i think Gallywix gets away

[iron hare]

I have a feeling we will

[last wren]

Quel thalas damn it, so hyped

[iron hare]

It's gonna look so good

Wow engine has aged like fine wine

[zealous sedge]

honestly the dam in undermined should og down

[last wren]

I've always loved blood elves in wow

[zealous sedge]

and have ringing deeps be phased

[last wren]

Like EVER

[iron hare]

Updated silver moon is gonna look so good

[last wren]

Oh damn yes

[zealous sedge]

ive been a belf since the beginning

end of tbc

[iron hare]

Suramar on crack

[zealous sedge]

so hyped

[last wren]

I'll be LIVINg there lmao

[ember blaze]

sonic dmg, bard confirmed.

[iron hare]

And red

[last wren]

Boy, I didn't play back then but... We are the same

Belf for life

[iron hare]

I've switched to blood elf

I like their animations

Forsaken at heart but I want a hero that feels less droll

[last wren]

Welcome to the club dude

[zealous sedge]

i just hope they refresh the plaguelands in midnight too

[last wren]

I'm a sylv loyalist tho

[iron hare]

I play as a good dk, like mine isn't a harbinger of death but more like "the heroes of the past still want to protect the world" kind of vibe, like a mystical knight

And elves fit that vibe more

[last wren]

Yeah, but I think too, you can't fly in the two of em

[zealous sedge]

i hope we see ghostlands healed as well

[iron hare]

Ghost lands will be a troll zone I bet

[zealous sedge]

liek it kinda has to be

[sullen dawn]

quel'thalas better one of the options for player housing

[last wren]

Have we the same feelings dude ? XD

[sullen dawn]

silvermoon i mean

[last wren]

Yeah, or else lmao

I'll be writing letters even 😂

[zealous sedge]

but also the zones they build are MUCH bigger now, im curious how thats gonna fit in with making everything else in the northern part of eastern kingdoms feel seamless

[last wren]

Silvermoon bigger ? Go for it idc about the rest

[sullen dawn]

maybe it won't be seamless for now until EK revamped

[last wren]

I'm 4000% biased lol

[zealous sedge]

yeah maybe. they might need to just update the whole eastern kingdoms map. I dont want to lose the immersion of it all

also can we get better starting zone areas for dranei as well? oldest stuff in the game

[last wren]

And belf too I guess no ?

[sullen dawn]

that'll probably happen eventually but not in midnight

i feel like they're gonna revamp the world over multiple expansions

[zealous sedge]

ah i should clarify not the world itself just redraw the map so it makes sense

[sullen dawn]

ahh

well the map currently isnt to scale

[zealous sedge]

yes

[last wren]

I don't remember the road map, when is set the midnight reveal ?

[ember blaze]

do they even care about this anymore

[zealous sedge]

like late summer

[sullen dawn]

august ish

[last wren]

Okay perfect

[sullen dawn]

alpha should start around the same time

[last wren]

Thanks

[ember blaze]

cause they made a whole new player map that gets u to 10, and 10 just sends you straight to dragonflight. Why update starting zones at all

[iron hare]

I assume since they're updated bloodelves they'll update dranei

[sullen dawn]

tbf no one likes that starting island

[ember blaze]

is that an opinion from new players

idc what current players say

[zealous sedge]

well The Exodar for example should be updated tbh

[iron hare]

I love starting zones stil

[last wren]

It's just faster to lvlup lmao

[zealous sedge]

like we the luightforged dranei arrving in legion it opwuld make sense to repair the exodar

[iron hare]

Like every legion cata df mist pls through should start with their class race starting zone for lore sake

[sullen dawn]

from some ive talked to. obviously its a very small data set

[zealous sedge]

the starting player island is fine

[ember blaze]

cause new players need basic instructions on using spells and equipping gear

[sullen dawn]

so i shouldn't say "no one likes it" i just say "from what ive seen and heard the sentiment is that isnt liked very much"

[ember blaze]

and no other starting zone does that

[zealous sedge]

but i never do it. The nostalgia of doing the race realted starting area is nice

[sullen dawn]

they complained it was too hand holdy

[iron hare]

Also some of them are the best stories in the game

[ember blaze]

with how lost ive seen some people be playing wow for the first time....

[iron hare]

Goblin panda dk worgen

[zealous sedge]

yeah i feel with WoW new players need hand holding haha

it can be a confusing game

[ember blaze]

and i tried to get my little brother to play, and that "hand holdy" stuff was needed

[last wren]

Lmao yeah

[sullen dawn]

2 players i had tried retail and classic for the first time at the same time

[last wren]

I agree

[ember blaze]

cause he otherwise would have been even more lost than normal

[sullen dawn]

they figured stuff out in classic themselves and found the retail intro island 'patrenising'

[last wren]

Wow is complicated tbh

From a new player pov

[sullen dawn]

yeh but you don't need ot learn it all at once

[ember blaze]

my little brother had trouble finding the quest objective 😂

[sullen dawn]

:((

[last wren]

Wait what

[ember blaze]

or what to click

[zealous sedge]

part of me wants to create a draenei and belf again just to relive the old starting zones before midnight in the event they both get updated lol