beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

kogold..

[ember blaze]

havent played it in a while tho

[zealous sedge]

lol

[deep pawn]

lfr...

lol

PC RUMBLE?

about damn time

[zealous sedge]

nice haha

[ember blaze]

lol

wow finally, the real game

[deep pawn]

23 minutes of WoW, let's go

[zealous sedge]

here we go the only thing we are here for

haha

[deep pawn]

that's a lot of days

[zealous sedge]

Thats 2.74 million years

[deep pawn]

yeah

[pulsar minnow]

Sneak peak of midnight?

Looks like hd belf assets

[deep pawn]

woo

Jan 6th again

that's the end of the anniversary event

[zealous sedge]

i think its a little too early for midnight details but one could hope

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t think we’ll see midnight details but that definitely looks like something from midnight

[zealous sedge]

true i agree

[pulsar minnow]

Love the style of it though. Belf stuff looks so dated 😭

[deep pawn]

We might see a tidbit or two

[tropic trail]

lol how you got this picz 😂

[deep pawn]

Alpha is likely next year

[pulsar minnow]

Reminds me of a mix between old belf stuff and zin azshari elf architecture

[pulsar minnow]

The livestream

[zealous sedge]

yeah probably q4

[deep pawn]

I dunno, I'm thinking q3 even

[zealous sedge]

that would be dope

[deep pawn]

woah, they are doing the new stuff in SoD

That was Hearthglen right?

MOP!

[zealous sedge]

yeah it looks like it

woooh

S tier

[ember blaze]

this was one obvious

[zealous sedge]

so after the final phase of SOD, im curious if they will restart with a different theme

oh shiz

i might get in on this. never did the original classic

[uncut vault]

looked like Tyr's Hand?

[deep pawn]

they're redoing classic entirely, lol

[upper pasture]

classic classic, i mean we all knew it was gonna happen one day no?

[deep pawn]

I'm excited for MoP

[zealous sedge]

i mean, it makes sense. give people a fresh start. How many times will they reset? I guess its infinite lol

alright here we go!

[deep pawn]

ION!

[pulsar minnow]

Anduin Hazzikostas wooop woop

[deep pawn]

ooo

new cutscene

[zealous sedge]

OOOH

[pulsar minnow]

Rootlands for sure

[deep pawn]

december patch

[upper pasture]

oh

novella

[zealous sedge]

nice winter viel revamp

[deep pawn]

ooo

UNDERMINE!

[zealous sedge]

YESS

[sleek solar]

UNDERMINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[pulsar minnow]

Shit they made it a whole zone

Looks sick

[upper pasture]

oh please let the KSM skin be a goblin shredder skin of the S1 one

[deep pawn]

covenants!

[pulsar minnow]

GROUND DYNAMIC MOUNTS

I KNEW IT

[upper pasture]

gorund mount skills 😩bleh

[ember blaze]

WHERE IS TINKER

[sleek solar]

THIS IS SO FUCKING SICK

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

[pulsar minnow]

New dungeon

[silent urchin]

oooh, dungeon is building out that south bit of ringing deeps

[deep pawn]

NEW DUNGEON

[pulsar minnow]

Doesn’t seem like a mega dungeon

[deep pawn]

ewww, motherlode

I wanna quit, lol

only 2 new delves

[pulsar minnow]

Holy shit that raid

[sleek solar]

GALLYWIX

[tropic trail]

Lmao why you so hyped about? 🤔

[zealous sedge]

alright whats the special annpouncement

[upper pasture]

horriffic visions update???

[silent urchin]

"warbands camp collections"

[upper pasture]

HOME!?>! !

please blizzard

[rain cave]

THEY

ARE DOING IT

[upper pasture]

yes

[zealous sedge]

what is the symbol at the end there?

[upper pasture]

fuck yes

[pulsar minnow]

PLAYER HOUSING

[zealous sedge]

oH SHITT

[pulsar minnow]

NO FUCKING WAY

[deep pawn]

no way

[ember blaze]

no way

[zealous sedge]

THEY DID IT. MAD LADS

[tropic trail]

Midnight is on summer already? 😳

[zealous sedge]

just the reveal

[deep pawn]

that's reveal only

probably alpha

[sleek solar]

PLAYER HOUUSING

[pulsar minnow]

SO THAT WAS THE MIDNIGHT FEATURE

[sullen dawn]

one of them

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah.

[sullen dawn]

they said "midnight featureS will blow peoples socks off"

[tropic trail]

Lawl 😂

[deep pawn]

now we know why expansions only have 3 tiers now

Was housing haha

[tropic trail]

Everyone so hyped and I don’t even know what’s going on 😅

[rain cave]

blowing my socks off and putting my feet up when I get home

[sullen dawn]

worth it

rp features > raids

[rain cave]

this dog is the real star of the show

[ember blaze]

still coping on tinker mid patch release

[pulsar minnow]

So rootlands probably last patch

[silent urchin]

So how many times has Ion done a vague answer on "player housing" knowing it was fully in development

[rain cave]

you'll probably get tinker themed armour

[silent urchin]

It may well be the same patch

[rain cave]

from the raid

[sleek solar]

THIS IS SO FUCKING NICE

[silent urchin]

rootlands was a vague internal name

[upper pasture]

well, at blizzcon he told me "nothing to talk about, now" with a smirk but yeah

[silent urchin]

and undermine is definitely pushing into some stuff

[deep pawn]

So the Orwenya in front of the world soul has to be an encrypted 11.0.7 cinematic eh?

[ember blaze]

yeah setting up tinker as a future class

[upper pasture]

i wanna go to sleep and wake up at midnight

[rain cave]

hunter tinker armour

[silent urchin]

tinker will only ever disappoint 90% of players cause there's so many completely contradictory ideas for it

[rain cave]

maybe you'll even get a legendary again xD

tinker makes sense as a hero talent spec for me idk

[pulsar minnow]

Might be a vision of hers

[deep pawn]

I'm a little disappointed we're not getting Rexxar

[pulsar minnow]

She’s like the new speaker of Azeroth it seems

[rain cave]

we already have elements of it in engineering, alchemy, and hunter as a class

even things like outlaw rogue

hunters can already summon robots, throw bombs, use guns, poisons, etc

if they did a thing of like "tinker hero spec" for hunters that basically reflavoured a bunch of their stuff to be like that it would work imo

like turning things like trick shots into arc lightning
traps into instant throwable potions
increasing explosive sohts/ wildfire bomb effects

or summoning turrets instead of pets

[deep pawn]

wait, what's that logo at the end of the roadmap? I'm guessing it's a new "secret" event type

[pulsar minnow]

Looks like we’re going back to Zuldazar this expansion btw. Shows the rocket mine thing going down to Undermine from Zuldazar

[zealous sedge]

so if midnight reveal is at the end of summer, we could still definitely see alpha q3

[rain cave]

maybe that's the hook to get talanji involved with the harranir

[deep pawn]

Well a notable thing is all of TWW is done by Dec 20th

[rain cave]

since I'm getting vibes that the harranir story is being kicked off with the goblins as well

[candid ruin]

🤔

[rain cave]

all that drilling can't be good for the roots

[deep pawn]

yeah, that's a rune of sort, but I can't place it

[rain cave]

can you post the full roadmap actually

so we can look at it

[deep pawn]

it's higher up

[rain cave]

cheers

[tropic trail]

So there will be player housing? 👀

[zealous sedge]

my guess is Midnight launch June 2026

[deep pawn]

nah

We won't have 6 months on 11.2.7

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24158486 supposedly the new novella link but doesn't seem enabled yet

[zealous sedge]

earlier?

damn maybe March then

[deep pawn]

Think Feburary/March next year

[zealous sedge]

sheeesh

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24148499 if you missed stuff, their own blog on it

[deep pawn]

10.2.7 wasn't current content for long

[rain cave]

maybe that's the player housing logo?

looks hearthstony

[zealous sedge]

thas my thought

player housing hearthstone

[upper pasture]

i just realized my copuim paid off

[rain cave]

renalash?

[deep pawn]

I guess we know why the memory chamber had the horrific visions portal

[pulsar minnow]

Someone mentioned it might be a player housing hearthstone

Would make sense

[ember blaze]

thats my guess too

[rain cave]

that's a good idea actually

[ember blaze]

and isnt that like around pre patch or whatever

[pulsar minnow]

Yep

[deep pawn]

housing could be a preorder bonus

[zealous sedge]

lets say it is the player housing hearthsone that means prepatch is December 2025?

[silent urchin]

And yes, in World of Warcraft: Midnight, your next adventure begins at home. A house to call your very own. Stay tuned!

seems likely

[tropic trail]

lol wtf 😂

[zealous sedge]

thats fucking crazy. that means midnight is definitely gonna be like February 2026

[sleek solar]

Yesssssssssss

I am so hypeddddddddddddddddd

[upper pasture]

yeah, i'd bet early 2026 would be midnight for sure

[tropic trail]

https://youtu.be/fQXHFrLX6A4?feature=shared

[rain cave]

prepatch is houses lmao

[zealous sedge]

yes exactly

[rain cave]

everyone cozying up by the fire for christmas before everything explodes

I wonder what sort of utility they'll put in them actually

now that the dungeon portal area exists, would be funny if we could have one there

[deep pawn]

So, the latest 11.1.7 will be is early June. I'm gonna guess July for 11.2?

[rain cave]

also all the weapon on the wall implies we can just put our transmog on the wall I guess?

god imagine having mannequins with all your mogs on

this also feels like a GREAT way to continue delves relevance

[upper pasture]

and those wooden mannequins they stealth added to the game

[zealous sedge]

its a huge feature, and i am excited. I just hope it doesnt detract from other features they plan on doing

[rain cave]

delves giving stuff for player housing would be nice

[silent urchin]

Transmog, raid boss trophys, probably all sorts of things

new login backgrounds in 11.1 as well

maybe housing will end up being an option too

[rain cave]

homestead style transmogs would be funky as well

[silent urchin]

your warband sitting around your house

[ember blaze]

i think a portal just to stormwind org would be fine

[silent urchin]

maybe a special hearthstone that goes to your hearthstone

[ember blaze]

wonder where we are initially gonna be able to buy the house

[deep pawn]

So housing is definitely a big enough feature I'd see getting leaked to fansites early

[silent urchin]

I suspect it's mostly interior only

[ember blaze]

whats delves gotta do with housing

[rain cave]

just saying it provides a good niche for them

since it's solo content largely

undercoins already have minor cosmetics rewards

[ember blaze]

hmm what i do want tho is maybe a housing profession

[rain cave]

I say split it amongst the current professions

[zealous sedge]

what if player housing is your login/ character/ warband screen? technically the log in screen is run on the game engine

[pulsar minnow]

Well they might add that option

[ember blaze]

i guess it makes sense for some, but id like a cool new profession where i can just focus on crafting shit for housing

[pulsar minnow]

But they also are just adding camp customization next patch

[upper pasture]

eh, i just hope you can bring people into your house

[silent urchin]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24158486 it's up \o/

[ember blaze]

and if u do it to main professions that will require its own tree

[pulsar minnow]

Quick summary of their announcements

Looks like undermine is late winter

[deep pawn]

that doesn't mean anything

that just means before March 20th

that's... a friday patch?

oh, no, wrong motnh

I guess they delay Winter Veil

[silent urchin]

No? It's due to start on the 17th

[deep pawn]

Except EU gets the patch on the 18th and Asia on the 19th

I guess they could update the event in the middle for EU

[zealous sedge]

kinda bummed the new classic realms drop when im out of town. sad

[sullen dawn]

i hope we get the more important thing - more than 1 camp

[silent urchin]

I'm hoping we get our house as an option

[sullen dawn]

backgrounds are nifty, but i think being able to group all characters into multiple camps is a bigger priority

sucks right now only having 'favourites'

from stream

midnight asset

[deep pawn]

So does look like 11.0.7 will be a bit long. 11.1 Feb 25th almost certain, April 29th is the latest date for 11.1.5, 9/20 for 11.2, but I bet it's before that.

oh, Evitel pointed out the roadmap turns green

That is almost certainly Legion Remix

[ember blaze]

excited to get away from all this dwarf architecture

[austere gazelle]

So much for " lack of horde character centric content "' lol

[sullen dawn]

hopefully wod instead

[austere gazelle]

we told ppl to wait for the goblin patch and here we are, 300 % turbo goblin

[deep pawn]

WoD wouldn't be legion green themed

[sullen dawn]

i know im just coping 😦

[iron hare]

am really happy that we finally got a patch dungeon, first one since legion, idk why but that particulary struck me, idk but they give a certain confidence to the patch

[deep pawn]

we're getting 2 patch dungeons

[iron hare]

worried about there being no new megadungeon in the road map, i hope they're not scrapped

[deep pawn]

in place of a mega

[iron hare]

im ok with it but sad

megadungeons were awesome

also looks like .2 patches being finale are here to stay 😭

[harsh mason]

Most likely there won't be, instead there will be 2 separate dungeons for the plot of two patches

[ember blaze]

with expacs not getting any cheaper

[iron hare]

tbf they do have more content then say 7.1, 8.3

quality over quantity but idk

[ember blaze]

the quality part is questionable

[iron hare]

i mean like new raid new zone new dungeon

[deep pawn]

I do think they're gonna be on track for less raid bosses this expansion than even DF

[rain cave]

didn't they say just one?

[iron hare]

yeah 8 bosses as well

could they have not added one extra

[deep pawn]

roadmap has a new dungeon for 11.2

[iron hare]

tbf we did get four raids with brd

but like

[ember blaze]

a raid nobody does

[silent urchin]

I think I'd rather two dungeons than one megadungeon

[iron hare]

would rather that be a new raid then a revamp

[iron hare]

sad cause its actually p fun

[harsh mason]

8-10 bosses is the best option for a raid tier.

[iron hare]

but they could have easily added an extra boss 😭

i will say apart from that

patch looks hella hype

goblin starting area is like one of my favorite questlines of all time

goblins are one of my favorite races, wacky adventure is always a good time

and im sure the raid will be outstanding

[dense plover]

Looking at the roadmap - I’m kinda pumped for revisiting horrific visions

They had high potential and that explains the door in the heart look a like room

[upper pasture]

I just like when raid bosses make sense and aren’t just thrown in to “make count”

[dense plover]

I’m hoping they do work to make the gameplay more interesting

[ember blaze]

overtuned and harder than current patch raid. Who knows WHO thouight it was a good idea to cap it at 15 players>?>?>??

[upper pasture]

The 15 player cap is the only complaint I have about the BRD redo

[iron hare]

as long as the raid tells a story im cool with it

also just nitpicking a little but the undermine zone looks a little bright

should have done like bottom of a volcano with lava and the multicolored lights giving a unique feel

[ember blaze]

after finally nerfing it way too long later sure

but also the loot being shit for most ppl

unable to refill the damn raid without leaving if someone quits...

who ever was in charge of that raid needs.... help

[silent urchin]

the weird scenario queue thing is definitely a pain

[rain cave]

oh thought you meant 2 in 1 patch

[iron hare]

i just want this raid to be as wacky as possible

like epicus maximus levels of stupid

[pulsar minnow]

The audio drama is so well done

[iron hare]

like highway racing motorball ff7r style boss fight, gambling style boss fight with diceroll like mechanics

[iron hare]

honestly im most sad we didnt get a grim guzzler revamp or a trial of whatver revamp

[deep pawn]

I'm just not sure if housing will sneak into 11.2.7 or not

that should be a prepatch thing but it's clearly coming before legion remix.

[iron hare]

wowhead thinks thats what the hearthstone looking thing is

[rain cave]

legion remix? that's not on the roadmap

[deep pawn]

it's highly hinted cause of the roadmap turning fel green

I'm gonna hope 11.2 has a new zone and delves, but right now both are missing.

Not going to the Rootlands will feel so weird.

[rain cave]

could that not be just a choice to show the expansion ending?

[deep pawn]

if that was the case it'd be Midnight purple

[rain cave]

also the "new world events" and "new open world challenges" could mean the new zone

[rain cave]

I suppose

[deep pawn]

the fel green is on purpose and people were asking for legion remix during MoP

[rain cave]

ig a legion remix also works going into midnight/TLT as a a refresher on that important lore

xalatath, titans lore, kadghar, Calia, Alleria, lightforged/Xera, etc

legion is effectively the prequel to the worldsoul saga

[sleek solar]

It really seems like Blizz is listening huh?

[deep pawn]

eh? I don't know if I'd say that

[sleek solar]

They are doing some pretty big things, which, as you know take time

[ember blaze]

so classic is just gonna loop back the same way again? 🤔

classic > wherever they end "classic"

[sleek solar]

Doing big things leaves less resources for the smaller things and thus seems like less things

[deep pawn]

We'll see

If MoP doesn't do well they'll likely end there

[iron hare]

wont that just be 11.2?

[deep pawn]

the roadmap doesn't specify a zone

[rain cave]

it specifies world stuff

[deep pawn]

I still think the raid is gonna be the manifold and coreway

[rain cave]

but who knows

[iron hare]

wouldnt that be the finale of the last titan?

[deep pawn]

8.3 was world stuff too

[rain cave]

maybe the whole rootlands stuff is doing to be tackled in 11.0.7 -> 11.1.5 -> 11.2 dungeon

[iron hare]

would love if the last raid was xalataths body

[rain cave]

as like an expansion arc

[rain cave]

ehh I don't think we should fight xalatath's "full body" if it's giant like that

I think we should learn what it is maybe

but her strength isn't brute force

[iron hare]

no thats like the raid itself

the remains of her body

[rain cave]

depends if she's evena fleshy being

I personally think she's a void naaru sort of thing

[deep pawn]

I don't think they go all the way to TLT before we help awaken Azeroth more.

especially since Orwenya is gonna be speaking to her directly in 11.0.7

[rain cave]

I mean could be that the reason the titans start trying to come is because they detect the manifold is gone or damaged

or they find out she's woken up

[deep pawn]

they wouldn't have spent weeks on the manifold and the machine at the center and the Earthen forgetting it all if it's not relevant to TWW

[iron hare]

well its more void invasion being more important

[deep pawn]

hmm, yeah, new zone in 11.2 is unlikely.

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/4ISKW67GYE3O1671648352895.jpg

This was the initial 2023 roadmap

interesting choice, I guess we'll see how they land the finale.

[warm topaz]

when the story is played out hen?

world revamp 👀

[rain cave]

perhaps the root stuff will be an expansion of ahn'qahet

and the world events will be the roots coming out in other places

[upper pasture]

i'd be shocked if they don't add another zone in season 3. there was just ALOT of info on the new roadmap and they likely didn't want to add too much all at once

[iron hare]

im sure its just an oversight

[rain cave]

the fact that "new world events" and "new openworld challenges" are 2 seperate things implies they're not just adding things to the existing areas

because otheriwse why would they be seperate, they're pretty much the same thing if you take it there's no new zone

[deep pawn]

world events is time rifts, or dreamsurges

Challenges are usually something else.

[upper pasture]

where would the new raid be?

[deep pawn]

Could be underneath Un'goro

[rain cave]

entrance in dornogal perhaps?

[upper pasture]

possibly an access point to the mainfold?

[rain cave]

we unblock the coreway and go down to the manifold and tree roots?

[iron hare]

im sure we'll get the rootlands

it makes no sense

why hype it up

[rain cave]

vertical portal at the bottom of the coreway entrance would be sick

[upper pasture]

so we open the coreway and go into a new zone?

[rain cave]

if there's a zone yes but if there's no zone and the root story is tackled IN the raid instead

then just a portal at the bottom of the coreway

that you fly into

[upper pasture]

it would just be VERY bold to make no zone for a seasonal patch

[deep pawn]

They've done it before

[rain cave]

especially with the growing sentiment of "getting less per expansion"

[rain cave]

yeah but not in an expansion with less patches

[deep pawn]

8.3 had no zone, just the black empire invasions.

[pulsar minnow]

Could literally just be Beledar explodes- opens portal to ethereal raid and they call that the patch

Would be lame as hell to not get another zone imo

But it’s possible

[deep pawn]

I still don't think we deal with Ethereals at all this expansion.

[rain cave]

yeah I agree

I think it'll be moreso that they are a part of the story but not the main thing

[deep pawn]

Given Orwenya is key to the 11.0.7 cinematic that we haven't seen yet, and her lack of direct connection to Undermine, she has to be the focus of 11.2 but we'll see what we get.

[iron hare]

it would be really upsetting, would rather undermine be a mega dungeon

if that was the case

[pulsar minnow]

I still think we’re getting an ethereal themed 11.2 just cuz of the tabards

[rain cave]

tabards don't have to always match

like it could just be a patch with voidy shenanigans going on in it

but not the main part

like in legion the Argus patch PvP tabard is army of the light themed

but Antorus is a fel raid, and that's the primary story bit

the army of the light just feature in it

[deep pawn]

I don't specifically need a new zone each season if they can do the story properly.

I still think K'aresh was pulled into the void itself and it'll be 12.1 after we jump through the Sunwell turned void portal.

[rain cave]

I do wonder if the sunwell itself would turn into a portal

[deep pawn]

it's highly likely.

[rain cave]

or if it's just used to open a larger portal

the midnigh tlogo looks like a void portal encompassing the moon

and it's called midnight

[deep pawn]

Azshara knows that wells can be turned into portals, hell she was the first to do it.

[rain cave]

call her up for a consult

[iron hare]

i mean just one new zone per expansion will b pretty rough

zones are the set piece for the story afterall

[pulsar minnow]

Well yes but either way it relates back to the shared story of army of light and legion. The ethereal tabard if were to look at it that way involves the ethereals in some form, likely Dimensius shenanigans or whatever. Either way ethereals will be a big part of 11.2, like how past tabards have related to the general theme of the patch in the past

Anywho. Still very confused as to what’s going on with the rootlands and Orweyna. I almost wonder if the rootlands will end up being just a dungeon

[novel zodiac]

i wish, sounds boring as hell

[pulsar minnow]

undermine or?

[novel zodiac]

Rootlands

its going to be another green map, and we got like 4 already

[rain cave]

11.1 has multiple renowns and army of the light was just 1 faction/rep in antorus so

we could have rootlands theme but perhaps we have a cartel of ethereals helping us?

[pulsar minnow]

Sure, but could also be the case we’re working against the ethereals in the rootlands. Either way it adds credence to the “ethereal_raid” stuff that was datamined a while back

[rain cave]

could be both! perhaps locus walker brings some mates

[iron hare]

ok i noticed something

11.0.7 never said "new zone" either

so have hope rootlands fans

[pulsar minnow]

good point

[deep pawn]

11.0.7 was never on a roadmap

[pulsar minnow]

nor was 11.1

[deep pawn]

The fact it's this year is a bit of a surprise

11.2 is on the roadmap though

[iron hare]

fuck your right

ok but it says "new content"

see inhales copium

[deep pawn]

I won't rule out a zone in 11.2 but I'd consider it unlikely at this point

[iron hare]

i have faith blizzard wont be that dumb

rootlands was alrdy datamined

i have faith

if they had one zone they wouldnt put it in the filler arc

[deep pawn]

People have been begging for Undermine for years and this is the only expansion it'll fit

[deep pawn]

6 weeks to unlock siren isle flying.

I guess that makes sense if the patch lasts 10 weeks

[austere gazelle]

Oh it makes sense suddenly...
N'Zoth whispers: The fall of night reveals her true face. She will bring only ruin
Night fall, her song will end.

it's Azeroth , she is gonna turn to the void and start horrific vision we will have to cleanse <_<

[pulsar minnow]

Or it’s just void shenanigans from Xal Atath

[lone mantle]

Night may fall, but day will rise again, and with it, the radiant song will return.

[rain cave]

voidsong is xalataths staffs name so

I'm convinced she's related to some kind of song

[sullen dawn]

undermine definitely isnt filler

its been requested for like 15 years at least

[rain cave]

also yeah the goblins are part of TWW arc ion said

[sullen dawn]

and is probably how xal reaches the world core

[rain cave]

it's pretty easy to work them in as well

[sullen dawn]

agreed

[rain cave]

and I'm convinced they are in cahoots with ethereals at least if not xalatath

[sullen dawn]

if there was one single zone id want to see as a patch in an underground expansion, undermine is top of the list

[sullen dawn]

remember gallywix was with the brokers in the SL megadungeon

im betting etherals helped him get there

i bet goblin intelligence via kazjamite is linked to the void in some way too

[rain cave]

but yeah the goblin story involves explanations for:
-Kajamite, it's origins and potential new lore relating it to things like beledar, other natural races
-Giant drills for alternative ways around the coreway or ways to clear the coreway out. (potential race to the core plotline)
-Goblins making deals with xalatath for the same reason anyone else does, goblins seem MORE vulnerable.
-"war within" is about personal stories as well, gazlowes lore has been revolving around creating a better culture in goblin society.

[sullen dawn]

exactly

[rain cave]

also goblins love destroying nature and we have roots lying around somewhere

[sullen dawn]

plus ethereals and goblins have a lot of thematic overlap

[rain cave]

and the bee dungeon mentions that the bees honey is good for flamethrowers

[sullen dawn]

cartels, rogues, technology, crystals

[rain cave]

and we all know blizzard are incapable of putting trees in an expansion without fire

"damn guys mount hyjfal finally playable!" burns the tree down
"BFA aaaand oh look another tree gone."
"Dragonfli- fyrakk attempts to burn tree down"

[iron hare]

.1 is usually the filler patch I mean

[rain cave]

personally this is why I think they might tackle the whole rootlands stuff in a dungeon/mini thing

because we've had trees and potential destruction as a plotpoint recently

[rain cave]

nighthold was not filler 😭

[iron hare]

Kharaxan was .1 patch

[sleek solar]

I still didnt get my stream drops

[austere gazelle]

in before : xal manipulate gallywix with OG blood somehow
Undermine sits on an installation vitals for the Manifold, and Xal wants to exploit it

[sleek solar]

What was in the drop?

[rain cave]

that was like 17 years ago

patch definitions have changed a lot since then

[iron hare]

Return to kharaxhan

[sullen dawn]

i think .1 is the filler patch is kind of a falsehood. its sometimes true, but even then its more of a 'segway' than filler

[iron hare]

You brought up legion?

[sullen dawn]

often .1 is super core

[rain cave]

that was 7.1.5

not 7.1

[iron hare]

7.1 return to kharazhan

[iron hare]

Ig, it's more of the bridge

[sullen dawn]

BFA .1 was battle for dazar alar, super core to the main war story

[sullen dawn]

agree, which makes sense for the middle patch lol

[sleek solar]

Jynx, just got it

[iron hare]

But I would rather like idk let's say .1 was like a mega dungeon about goblins taking over root lands or have that be the bridge leading up to undermine zone as .2

[rain cave]

but 7.1 also had trial of valour AND nighthold

calling that filler seems a bit disengenuous considering it's one of the most stacked patches

[sullen dawn]

i dont think undermine makes sense narratively at the end

i assume they wana do the world core for the final act

even if its not a zone, it can be the raid

[rain cave]

issue there is too much goblin

[iron hare]

And .2 being just world invasions makes no sense gameplay wise

[rain cave]

goblins are a very one note aesthetic in their current status

[sullen dawn]

we dont know thats true yet

we're just guessing from the roadmap

[iron hare]

Don't get me wrong I love undermine im just sad we might not get a second zone

But Im inhaling copium

Rootlands is dsramibed

Datamined

[sullen dawn]

tbh rootlands sounded boring compared to undermine

[rain cave]

I mean if it had been any other zone it wouldn't have changed that

[sullen dawn]

and even if we dont get a .2 zone, theres still a raid, which can bring us to new place

it could bring us to the heart of azeroth, hell even cheeky trip to k'aresh (full zone in midnight)

[rain cave]

I like it when we go on patches that are sort of a stopgap thematically but tie into the major story

[iron hare]

Agreed but I want both

I'd rather go to undermine though

[sullen dawn]

i dont think we should be fretting about no zone in .2 rn

[rain cave]

yeah

[sullen dawn]

we have no idea what direction theyll take with it. it could be like BFA final patch, it could be a mini zone, it could be hcanges to existing zones, it might be a full zone and they just didnt list it cos its expected

[iron hare]

But idk a secret jungle with glowing crystals dinasoues and giant undergrounf Titan stuff sounds dope

But also 11.1 itself looks great

Will say patch dungeons > mega dungeons

[sullen dawn]

today is a day for hype imo 😛

not pessimism

[rain cave]

roots sound like a good potential avenue for an 8.3 style patch imo

[iron hare]

I mean I've been saying I think we'll get it

[rain cave]

we already have "deepgrove" items in herbalism

so there's some of the flora leaking out to the surface and other caves, we even see some roots

[iron hare]

Ok I will make a desicion

[rain cave]

so having like wild surges of roots growing out of control?

[sullen dawn]

yeh it could go wild and spread everywhere

[iron hare]

Prediction

[ember blaze]

why is the ring tied to that tho 💀

[sullen dawn]

changing all 5 other zones

[rain cave]

perhaps xal even triggers some kind of immune response inthe roots

with the goblins interference

and they just go crazyy

[sullen dawn]

yeh gobos allows her to innject black blood in roots causing them to respond wildly

[iron hare]

I think undermine raid will be a Nighthold ulduar black rock foundry level remembered raid

[sullen dawn]

which means titans need to do something

[rain cave]

and the raid would still be rootlands, but like 8.3 we have entrances all around

[deep pawn]

No way they make Orwenya the final boss of the expansion? Haha

[rain cave]

I mean

"the eyes of green" whisper rears its head

which is one we haven't had come true yet

[iron hare]

The levels of sheer fun is unmatched

We're getting a kong v Godzilla themed boss like I'm ready

[sullen dawn]

Hogger has green eyes

[rain cave]

but I don't think orweyna is evil. I think the specific way the eyes of green whisper is said means it can be interperated as she is being misled

[iron hare]

Blood elves

Boom lead into midnight

Ok you know what would be kind of cool

A rootlands infected silithus

[rain cave]

“The Vassel of Life Disguises treachery, beware the eyes of green.”

[iron hare]

Or infected ahn quiraj

Can use the scrapped zone

[rain cave]

Orweyna might not be the vassal of life, in fact she is literally a herald for her as far as we can tell

or maybe she is

one thing is for certain though is that she is definetly someone who fits that whisper

[pulsar minnow]

Well life would be elune no?

[rain cave]

ehh

I personally don't think Elune is a life being

as in she isn't green

and they always specifically show that elune magic is NOT life magic, and is never green

[pulsar minnow]

I ask because she’s the only life pantheon member related to Orweyna

[rain cave]

they always show her using things like Light, Arcane and even death I'd argue.

which to me are the big 3 of order style magic

[iron hare]

Also undermine music is gonna go so hard

Kezan theme is so playful

[rain cave]

especially since her light and arcane are more bluey/pale as if they take on a sheen of ardenweald mixed in

I've said it many a time by to me, Winter queen is the restorer of life to death. Using the recycled souls to bloom new life, we see that is literally her charge.

so it only makes sense to me that her "sister" who is in the opposite plane would have the opposite job. looking over life and making sure it's in order, stopping there being too much or too little death. She would be death in life

after all we know she actively made a choice to not act in specifically a mortal war, in order to try send souls to the afterlife BECAUSE there was a drought.

her artifact is a scythe of harvest

the night warrior has a unique connection to the realm of death, and uses what looks to be almost maw like/ death shadow magic

[pulsar minnow]

Well while I personally disagree on this topic. I think elune is firmly in the grounds of the life pantheon. Mainly because of the existence of Amirdrassil being harmony and representative of the cycle of life and death… I don’t want to get into this again. But on the Orweyna topic the reason I asked is because if there is an entity she’s related to it’s either Elune or Azeroth

[rain cave]

xalataath calling her an upstart goddess also fits in the same way the brokers say "as if the Pantheon of Order were the architects of a flawless cosmos! How typical of their kind to claim credit for that which they did not build but inherited."

[pulsar minnow]

And I don’t think Azeroth is particularly bound to green or life pantheons

[rain cave]

oh no I agree she's part of the life pantheon

but I'm saying her job is analagous to Ardenwealds in the shadowlands

[deep pawn]

The Haranir appear to hear Azeroth and their mission is to just observe

[rain cave]

all the other realms focus on keeping things in the shadowlands or bringing them there

[pulsar minnow]

I think Orweyna is being propped up to be the new speaker of Azeroth

[rain cave]

whereas ardenweald literally sends things back and is life focused

it could also be that people start hearing different "songs" of azeroth depending on their alignment.

but who knows

personally I think that there could be some interesting story if she isn't the vassal of life but IS the eyes of green

[pulsar minnow]

I'm leaning on Elune being more of just the astral aspect of life- like the primal energy that gives it shape and form.

[deep pawn]

It would be a twist if the roots turn on us and we have to save Khaz Algar

[rain cave]

she's the only one who wants to do things differently, she would trigger any further consequences

"beware the eyes of green" -> when you see her, bad things will soon happen, stay away

[pulsar minnow]

I like the idea of An'she and elune both having dual natures

[rain cave]

vassal of life could be the roots themselves

[pulsar minnow]

An'she - light and void. Elune, light and dark sides of the moon

[rain cave]

there's a couple ideas in my head. like the roots being the vassal

or it could literally be something like, the roots are disturbed after orweyna lets us interfere, Freya senses it and comes over

awakens all the freysworn around khaz algar

to stop us meddling

[pulsar minnow]

the worst reality is that they completely abandoned the plotline since danuser left 😦

[rain cave]

I mean that could be an option if there's no zone in 11.2

the story just taking a different turn than originally planned to get us into midnight

but who knows

[pulsar minnow]

I pray it’s not abandoned

But also it’s definitely possible

I mean, did we ever figure out what the three lies Anduin offered were

[deep pawn]

So I'm guessing a lot of the music and car models were what dataminers had.

[pulsar minnow]

was checking out the press center for the patch. Lots of black blood/titanic stuff

wonder if we're getting closer to the manifold?

[silent urchin]

huh, this does very much resemble that little bit in SE ringing deeps that was visible on the minimap briefly in alpha

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1296764762411237376/1303077408483704832/image.png?ex=67364e68&is=6734fce8&hm=a485f6be11a4863cde8f583f2cc4fbdc726fcd834b1ccbd2928a52eeea7c720f&

I think the theory of a cave/tunnel behind opportunity point makes sense, it does look pretty suspicious

[dense plover]

1000%

we always knew it had to be over there

the odd thing is the stuff there was always minimap only

it never made it in the game

but it makes sense they were building it with the other zones in mind

[silent urchin]

hmm, where is this, zuldazar?

I guess makes sense, probably near the motherlode

brief 3-4 second clip of a tunnel machine breaking into a cave, don't see much more than that

[dense plover]

probably just a cutscene tbh

[jade basalt]

My thought was also Zandalar

or possibly Kezan

[tulip sun]

Either one would be quite the detour.

I had assumed we'd find an entrance in one of the new zones

[dense plover]

did cata classic make any significant changes? Im curious if mists classic will fix some of the mistakes from the expac or if itll just let me see Vale again

[jade basalt]

Thinking there might be multiple entrances

[deep pawn]

So far the only thing that's been added is mythic dungeons

Also, it could be part of the zone could be the surface of Kezan.

[dense plover]

holy shit im just seeing the video and the robosaurus

and it fights a mecha-rilla?

holy shit the raid in general seems awesome

i hope that giant hotel is actually in the zone

im hoping we do in fact get a full city zone like suramar

i loved that

[deep pawn]

We need at least a couple mini games in the Goblagio.

[jade basalt]

Godzilla vs Kong

[rain cave]

could also be that starter island that blew up in cata?

the volcano one

[proper palm]

Gnomish are in the same room of the full shadow VFX for SP

[pulsar minnow]

its definitely zuldazar in that video. Its got all the same assets. Likely near Xibala

[proper palm]

Yep, and same rocks

[rain cave]

yeah but could reuse them

similar climate

[proper palm]

Maybe just an introduction around motherload

[pulsar minnow]

Its probably just Zuldazar. We already know the Goblins were mining around there in BFA

We also see the same type of gorilla species from Zandalar in the fighting ring in Undermine

it'd be pointless to overhaul the lost isles when its not even going to be a playable zone

[proper palm]

And dinos

👀

[pulsar minnow]

they're goblins. The undermine stretches to all corners of azeroth for trade and whatnot

[proper palm]

Sorry for my bad english :
Motherload was the city center of the goblins with Gallywix during the goblin armor quest, it is more than likely that they dug again and again and drop a city on a box

[deep pawn]

Motherload is on Kezan though

[proper palm]

I completly forget that xD

[pulsar minnow]

its under kezan. but zandalar is right next to it

zandalari did have a history of enslaving goblins and all

[sullen dawn]

i dont think tjats true

Undermine is specifically the city under kezan

they definitely drill around to different places under azeroth, but those places arent undermine

[tropic trail]

Xala’tath in undermine? and what she can be doing there like digging stones? 👀

[deep pawn]

Undermine is said to be massive

It was implied at one point you could travel from continent to continent underground in Undermine.

[lone mantle]

It appears that she wishes to delve into the planetary core.

[tropic trail]

Such desperado lol 😂

[little hound]

Its the Hearthstone Icon for the Player Housing. ITs literally shaped like a house, and the curl in the middle is the door.

[silent urchin]

why would they tease something they revealed in full and told us was explicitly coming wtih midnight launch

I remain pretty convinced it's iridikron related, map behind makes it appear to be in dragonblight

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/MrGMYT/status/1857093329038549182

MrGM (@MrGMYT) on X

The 2025 Roadmap has been updated! A "New Zone" is now listed for Patch 11.2

Twitter · Nov 14, 2024, 4:08 PM

[silent urchin]

neat

[pulsar minnow]

Because it could just indicate prepatch

Or a pre order bonus

[sullen dawn]

See! I said there was no reason to worry

[sullen dawn]

Very much looks like pre patch content

Dec 2025 or Jan 2026 with expansion in February

[rain cave]

I mean it could also just not be a tease

They declared player housing, that icon is the indicator for when it comes out

Like sure it could ALSO be teasing something about housing we don't know

They said themselves our next adventure begins at home

[silent urchin]

the fact that we don't know exactly what it is makes it a tease basically by definition

[rain cave]

They could be tying legion remix into the story

As in

We all go to our homes and share the story of legion

Literally reliving it by the fireplace

Since legion is the prelude to all the stuff happening

Tbh it does feel like they're setting midnight up as starting with horrific civilian casualties

There's been loads of mention of family, home, staying safe, etc on the story

Arator is in silvermoom, it wouldn't surprise me if vereesa is there

They're building homes

[deep pawn]

I still think Xal'atath ends up making Anduin or Alleria do something very dark by the end of the expansion

[pulsar minnow]

Definitely not Anduin

We’ve already had this arc with him

[sleek solar]

Yup

And also pretty sure its not Alleria

Since it was about her getting over herself

[upper pasture]

I still feel like xal’atath wants to body snatch Alleria.

[sleek solar]

Yeah I was wondering that too, but at the same time I dont think she cares about her body

[pulsar minnow]

I agree. I feel like Xal Atath cares more about her true form or whatever that ends up being

[sleek solar]

Yes exactly!

[upper pasture]

Idk, sure whatever her void form is is in fact extremely powerful but void beings cannot inhabit or interact with the real world so there are plus sides of having a living body that can use the void powers like Alleria can. I feel like Xal’atath is just pushing her more and more into using the void until she can take her body for her own.

[tropic trail]

That would be cool story especially when her own body is decaying it seems

👀

[upper pasture]

I mean of course it will be all for nothing since alleria will likely not submit to the void

[tropic trail]

Yea, haha 😂

[sleek solar]

She most likely is not a true void being

Not like Dimensius is

[upper pasture]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sleek solar]

I also dont think she can take a living body

[upper pasture]

We won’t know until we know I suppose. I’m just getting “I’m testing the limits of your body for my own gain” vibes

[tropic trail]

Think she wanted to absorb enough power into that neck so she could actually summon him

[sleek solar]

Im getting more of the "You'd make a powerful ally" vibes, but I can def see where youre coming from

[upper pasture]

Xal’atath doesn’t have allies she has tools

[deep pawn]

Anduin giving in to the shadows entirely is a different story.

Regardless of who it is, Sylvanas shows up to bring them back from the brink in Midnight

either her sister or her little lion

[sleek solar]

Lmao yes

Wouldn't surprise me 1 bit

[deep pawn]

Alleria is the obvious choice cause of the prophecy of her killing her son, but Anduin's doubt leading him to fall for a bit in contrast to Alleria beating her doubts would basically be "The War Within"

[upper pasture]

Idk, I feel like another Anduin pity patch wouldn’t be right, I think Alleria will struggle with Xal’atath then Anduin will inspire her with the “words “ of her sister. Or something close to that.

[deep pawn]

Maybe starting Midnight is needed. If it truly does lead us into the void and stopping it for good, it could look evil and poor me from the outside but it's the right thing.

I still think the dark heart is going to open the Sunwell.

With the 11.2 zone confirmed I'm pretty sure we unite the goblin cartels and they open the coreway to Roothome.

[sleek solar]

She did so in the Horrific vision of Stormwind, and horrific visions are returning...

[rain cave]

Sylvanas being the one to break a form of mind control would be satisfying

Show her development

[deep pawn]

It wouldn't be mind control, but still showing growth that your darkest impulses aren't the only choice for her anymore

[iron hare]

Did you guys hear blizz updated road map

No 8.3

[ember blaze]

no 8.3, expacs not getting any cheaper, what's next

[rain cave]

I can't believe they deleted the bfa patch 8.3 from existence retroactively

This is unacceptable!

[pulsar minnow]

I mean if we think about it. Over the course of the saga we’re getting the same amount of content just faster. Instead of like 4 raids over the course of a year, we’re getting 3 and moving on to the next expansion and getting 3 more. It sort of balances out. Granted whether the content is up to the same quality is another issue altogether

[sullen dawn]

Tbf 8.2 Nzoth release was the last good bit of story I BFA

It went downhill rapidly from there

[pulsar minnow]

But frankly I’d pay $10 more for an expansion if it means the content drought is short

[sullen dawn]

I'm happy with the new cadence ngl

I get bored end of expansion so 18 months with 2 major patches is fine by me

[iron hare]

Best part of bfa was 8.1 and jainas song

Was so good

[sullen dawn]

Yessssss

[iron hare]

8.2 killed it for me, nazjatar imo is the worst zone of all time

[sullen dawn]

Finally my soul brother

[iron hare]

There are others worse, but no zone disappointed me more

[sullen dawn]

(although I enjoyed 8.2 a lot)

[iron hare]

Capital of naga, zin ashari, retextured azuna with some coral and Kelp

[sullen dawn]

Najztar should have been a lot more than what it was but I still enjoyed it and the raid was awesome, as was mechagoj

[ember blaze]

mechagon just felt like annoying chores

[sullen dawn]

But 8.0 and 8.1 was some of my favourite wow times, especially in war mode

[iron hare]

Raid was ok

[ember blaze]

the dungeons were good tho

[iron hare]

Tough shoes to fill after battle for dazar a lor

[sullen dawn]

True but I feel like bfa had mostly strong raids all around

Nyaltotha was mid, but the rest

[iron hare]

Bfa was just too rushed

[sullen dawn]

I agree but it's still my favourite expansion

[ember blaze]

disagree

[iron hare]

Nazjatar was bad for what it was supposed to be

Same with 8.3

[sullen dawn]

I can agree with this and your next comment

[iron hare]

Nzoth was so creepy in cata in bfa he's just "HNNNNNGGGG"

[sullen dawn]

The final third of bfa was ass story wise

Nzoth released immediately turned into smoke

Then he's a wet fart we laser beam

[iron hare]

Cata old gods where the peak

[sullen dawn]

He was cool in the warbringers thing prelaunch

[iron hare]

Actually felt omnipresent

[sullen dawn]

I AM A GOOOD

Chills

[iron hare]

Yeah that was hype

Best thing about nzoth is he didn't even manipulate the begining

The jailer did

He wasn't even involved he was just chilling

[sullen dawn]

💀

[ember blaze]

loved nyalotha as a raid and the mythic raid for nzoth was cool

mythic phase*

[iron hare]

Honestly I didn't like nyalotha as a raid

Idk I wanted it to be more psychological

Like walking through trees, eyes everywhere then like mouths with holes like Aq

Starts out not even a creepy old god place make it a soft flower field that gets more fucked up

First boss like some little orphan that transformes into a monster

But it was just kind of like platforms then some weird maw that no one knows about

Will say I love nzoths body boss

That was epic

[ember blaze]

gameplay was also peak for wow in a long time with corruption(once vendors got introduced)

[iron hare]

Yeah agreed

Also unpopular opinion I don't mind it being 3 raids

Uldir and emerald nightmare were weak narratively

[deep pawn]

I loved EN

[iron hare]

Like legions story could easily be Nighthold toumb antourus

[iron hare]

Really it's one of my least fave

Honestly I just hate malfurion

[hazy kettle]

GIVE US THE BLACK FOREST ALREADY. I WANT TO DROWN IN THE SLUMBERING CITY OF NY'ALOTHA!

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-burning-hell-gif-4808980

[rain cave]

tbf from the growing old god corruption we're seeing continued in 11.1 I wouldn't be usrprised if we get it

like it's starting to look less like just a small bit of blood influencing the land into literally its own biome

which I reckon is intentional, like the blood is mutating into its own thing

[hazy kettle]

Oooooh I want the black forest! I wanna clap eyestalks that mimic trees! Can't wait!

[deep pawn]

Goblins turning to black blood over Azerite is scary

[dense plover]

there have been mentions of kaja'mite disappearing - if it isnt already gone, story is a bit inconsistent

i could see Xal abusing this to trick a faction of goblins into thinking that without her they will lose their intelligence

[glass flicker]

I'm still wondering what Gallywix got from Cartel Xy in the Shadylands.

[upper pasture]

seems we get to find out in the upcoming patch. unless of course blizzard forgot about that

[glass flicker]

Imagine, he just has an entourage of Jailerbots.

Anyways... my guess is that the Earthen that Magni infused with his Thraegar... Thraegardy will play a big role at the end of the patch. "These Goblins were trying to achieve machine-speaking," or something.

[pulsar minnow]

Gallywix attempting to turn himself into diamonds would be very fitting of his character

[glass flicker]

[pulsar minnow]

I really like that idea ngl

[glass flicker]

You know what, add in the idea of Xal'atath telling him about that.

[pulsar minnow]

Would make for a really cool mythic phase (granted they don’t really do that much anymore)

[glass flicker]

Make it so she is actively looking for pawns allies.

And Gallywix just happens to be a spiteful little gross pile o' jelly.

"Oh yeah, I lost the Bilgewater thanks to those champions. My profits have been declining since!"

Well, whatever's coming, I'm sure the dialogue will be peak. Goblins have always had some of the best lines.

"You scratch my back, I'll pay someone to scratch yours." - Marin Noggenfogger.

[deep pawn]

So, y'all think we get 4 renowns, or are they gonna do the Pact system again?

[tropic trail]

What is this Black Forest? 👀

[deep pawn]

I can't imagine they'd give us 4 brand new renown tracks for a patch, but I'd take it haha

[lone mantle]

Black Forest is a metaphorical representation of death or corruption, mentioned by both Y'Shaarj and Yogg-Saron.

[ember blaze]

how did DF work? I forgot

[silent urchin]

They mentioned you choose one

not sure if that's one per week

[tropic trail]

Now I’m curious about list of bosses in next raid in undermine 😂

[austere gazelle]

It's nice they are setting up some ethereal stuff coming in midnight, slowly

[sullen dawn]

Two of the them for sure are Gallywix, and Godzilla vs Kong robots

[tropic trail]

This Gallywix I saw him somewhere with brokers in shadowlands. But I’m not sure if I’m not crazy and seeing things

I remember now he was with Cartel Xy in veiled market trying probaly buy relic of the first ones.

[sullen dawn]

He was

Possibly the ethereals helped him get there?

[tropic trail]

Yea it’s possible, and it’s also weird there is mad merchant who has constellation pet, and brokers like Ve’nari collecting constellan relics.

[rain cave]

Maybe that's why he'd be interested in azeroth worldsoul stuff if he's involved

The jailer knew azeroth and first ones were connected. A relic of the first ones could tell him that info as well

He'd probably be interested in beledar considering it's a large fragment of worldsoul (apparently)

[sullen dawn]

It sounds like housing options will be pretty limited at launch

In tali interview Ion really emphasized that it's just a starting point and will be extended heavily over time

I think we'll get more than just orgrimmar and storm wind, but I think it could be like 4 options total

[rain cave]

probably more like durotar/elwynn themed

idk if in the city matches the vibes people want at first

but also could explain its involvment with legion remix

that could be the first taster of howt hey want to roll out rewards for it

[lone mantle]

I would like to have one within the city of Ulduar.

[rain cave]

do legion remix and unlock the artifacts on the wall

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I was being generic when I said storm wind and org. I mean human and orc

[sullen dawn]

Hahaha I'm sure

Orc, human, nelf, belf is probably the launch options imo

[rain cave]

idk about belf

considering

but definetly silvermoon at some point probably during midnight

once we clean up quelthalas lmao

[sullen dawn]

Belf simply imo because the expansion focus and location

[warm topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHo1Qd1VncQ

for those who wants to hear it

[deep pawn]

They only added one renown per patch. Niffen then the Emerald Wardens or whatever it was. So I'm gonna guess Cartel renown works like Severed Threads. Pity, was kinda nice in this patch to have access to 5 heroic crafting crests on fresh chars.

Yeah, interview confirms it's like the pacts

[rain cave]

the bonus though is we get those funny pact abilities

"sick em boys" and then a pack of goblin mobsters just come out of nowhere to beat the shit out of someone

or even tinker-esque abilities like a turret

[deep pawn]

With 4 pact choices that makes it hard to get a renown level that divides evenly haha

[rain cave]

I just maxed 1 of them before going to another

weaver -> general for me atm

[deep pawn]

I guess they can do 25 again. Each cartel has 6 levels.

[uncut vault]

Hopefully there's more story to the cartels this time around than with the pacts

Aside from Anub'azal's conclusion, they kinda fizzled out into nothing past the leveling story

[deep pawn]

They made the story stuff really hard to find.

I don't think I've even seen the Weaver's story.

The vizier's conclusion felt timed wrong

Like most people had completed the raid by then haha

[uncut vault]

Weaver's is also poorly timed, since the conclusion is about upholding Neferess' legacy now that she's dead

which, yknow. lol

[rain cave]

isn't neferress alive?

I've seen her in the inn at the threads hub

with a stay awhile and listen with weaver

[uncut vault]

She is

[deep pawn]

Timegated story to rep just doesn't work anymore lol

[uncut vault]

I think it can work, if it's a story made to be its own

or at least its own within that patch

like Suramar, heavily rep-gated but it worked phenomenally because the rep is the max level story of 7.0

[rain cave]

so why did you say she's dead

or is that the confusion in the first place

[uncut vault]

thats the confusion haha

[rain cave]

bruh

[uncut vault]

we dont find out she's alive until the third chapter of the campaign

but that chapter came out weeks before anyone could hit high enough rep with Weaver to get her rep plot

[rain cave]

there's more plot with the rep grinds?

I thought it just unlocked side quests

[uncut vault]

Yeah each pact has a set of quests at two points in their rank ups

[rain cave]

wish they marked those as important somehow

[uncut vault]

they ultimately arent super important, in part I think due to them being so sectioned off

Weaver's is more about her themes, Vizier's should be relevant but it's really fast and abrupt (and also awkward post-raid)

Anub'azal's is the big relevant one given ||he dies at the end||, which is gonna be weird to bring up in future content whenever the nerubians show up

[rain cave]

what's the specifics there? not played them yet

[uncut vault]

His quest is about fighting the ascended general we meet during leveling, it culminates in an honor duel between the two

||He kills Zevkal, but is mortally wounded in the process and marches off to die on a terrace with a view of the city he loves ||

[rain cave]

and that's post raid?

[uncut vault]

||you can find his corpse out in the world post-quest||

[tulip sun]

Rip

[uncut vault]

His is the most vague one, can take place any time in the story

[rain cave]

do they explain the holdout of ascended after queenies gone?

[uncut vault]

other two are explicitly pre-raid though

[tulip sun]

Speaking of seeing nerubians post questline though...

[rain cave]

it can't, as he shows up after queen is dead

[tulip sun]

We see the arathi and earthen but not Nerubians

I hope we see them more

[uncut vault]

I have a feeling they'll save the nerubians for TLT

[rain cave]

praying we get ascended at some point playable

[uncut vault]

they were clearly a centaur style "we just had a cool zone idea" for the initial TWW concept, compared to the long-term plans of the arathi after their rework

[rain cave]

they're such a cool look, and a race unlike ones we've had before biologically

[tulip sun]

I'd like to see them aid us in fights though until then, though i guess they need to refocus and rebuild

[silent urchin]

It feels like they had a lot of design ideas for the zone that never quite made it in

[uncut vault]

I expect to see ascended in future though, given how explicit that set-up for Xal'atath controlling them is

[rain cave]

we've got dark irons, goblins and now nerubians on our side able to just up and tunnel anywhere

[uncut vault]

with no real follow-up yet

[silent urchin]

I hope we get some sort of epilogue at some point

maybe when the haranir finally show up

[tulip sun]

Do we have any like even- who leads Azj Kahet bow?

Now*

[silent urchin]

Vizier mostly I think

[rain cave]

maybe xal will start ascending more races and building out the lore there

since the way things have been going race wise it feels like they're setting up a change to how faction/race is handled

probaably for afte TLT though, when they sit down to do a fresh revamp aafter worldsoul saga

[silent urchin]

Vizier was the one high ranking to begin with, anyone loyal to the queen got murderhobod, and most of the regular citizens seemed pretty happy to stop being murdered themselves

[deep pawn]

Imagine "stupid sexy goblins" for their ascension.

[rain cave]

i.e. "here's a dwarf. choose what kind of dwarf you wish to be" or "here's an elf, what kind of elf do you want to be?"

would be interesting if they revamped that character creation screen into a more RPG style of choosing your heritage and potential backgroudn stuff

[deep pawn]

I think reworking character creation that much at this point is unnecessary.

[rain cave]

high elf, void elf, blood elf
half elf, human, kultiran
night elf, Highborne, (whatever those undead elves are called)

[rain cave]

if they intend to clean slate things a bit after tlt I could see it working as a new in for newer plaeyrs

they could even change the factions up a bit but who knows

just depends on i they want to take warcraft in a bold new direction after TLT or just tell new stories with the game they already have

[deep pawn]

"The team wants to fix the names and add some tutorialization. It should be logical what to do with Crests."

I swear to all that is holy, veteran, champion, hero, myth crests

that's all you need

it is an eternal naming scheme.

[silent urchin]

honestly just drop the vet/champ ones too and make those valorstone only

[rain cave]

for me, champion/hero/myth are a bit confusing

especially since they aren't ilvl tied sometimes

like I have items of each tier all around 610 ilvl

in various states of upgrade

and the tokens look pretty similar

the exchange vendor confuses me

for me the crest system is just, "I haven't visited the upgrade person in a while. I'll go check all my item pieces and see if I can upgrade any through the stuff I've aquired"

[deep pawn]

it is tied to the ilvls those crests upgrade

hero will always be champ 5-8, hero 1-4.

[rain cave]

my items have different tags all over the place

so I just don't know what does what

the crests and item tiers having similar but different names just confuses me a lot xD

[deep pawn]

it's better than gilded

like what the hell does gilded mean

at least myth would tell me it's for myth ilvls of gear

[rain cave]

perhaps they should add mini icons on gear

[deep pawn]

visual clutter doesn't do anything

[rain cave]

with colour coding

[deep pawn]

I can't tell you what any crest color is

that doesn't matter

[rain cave]

green, blue, purple, orange

[deep pawn]

is it? Couldd've fooled me

[rain cave]

for the crests

no I'm saying they should do that

use the rarity colours to communicaate crest colour and upgrade track

so if you upgrade an item to a certain point, aa little icon changes colour to show what crest you need to upgrade it

[deep pawn]

that would be too small to be noticeable

I don't think that's the way to go

[rain cave]

just like that

maybe a bit bigger

it works for grey items/junk items being marked as sellable

so like that would be 2nd highest tier crests needed

then highest tier could be the orange

[deep pawn]

Icons are so small people won't see that

[rain cave]

people already see it on things like greys when vendoring

and that's not even that vibrant of a colour, and is easily visible at a glance

[deep pawn]

Is it? I usually never see color on the icons it's so subtle.

[deep pawn]

"+7 is not the best point of entry, and it certainly wasn't designed to be a point of entry, so we think some players are hitting a cliff wall. So we see a lot of people bouncing off that would have previously had a home in early Mythic+ tiers. So, for Season 2, that's one of the big things we're going to address there. It just wasn't something we could change in the middle of Season 1."

They're gonna gut delve rewards I bet

[sullen dawn]

Please no

Id rather m+ die than delves if I had to choose tbh

I wanted delve rewards to call all the way to ilvl cap (with new really challenging tiers of delves to get them ofc)

[deep pawn]

I'd hate that too but I don't know what they do when you can just get champ gear in delves

they're gonna make it veteran

[sullen dawn]

That would kill the expansion for me

Not even being dramatic

[deep pawn]

for me too maybe, s1 dungeons haven't been fun

But I don't know how they "make" people do +3-6 keys

[sullen dawn]

I loved s1 but only for delves, I did like three m+ runs total

My main wish for s2 was being able to "push delves" super high difficulty tiers

With higher reward ceiling

[sullen dawn]

Make it so you can't do a +7 until you've done a +6 of same dungeon and below

So you have to climb the ladder for each dungeon

[rain cave]

the thing with delves is that it's slow gearing

only the weekly cache is high ilvl

M+ you can get unlimited gear technically no?

[sullen dawn]

Yep

I'm fine with that for delves, just wanted the ceiling raised

[rain cave]

so idk why they'd gut delves

the issue with delves is they're not balanced well

imo

[sullen dawn]

So like hero gear at end of tier 18 delve, and Mythic (raid) gear at weekly chest

[deep pawn]

delves are much more gear for time spent

4 champ drops in 4 delves

vs how ever many +4s

[rain cave]

delves feel more tedious than m+ though

like in +8 it feels like everything just hits hard and does unfair damage, takes a while to kill

[sullen dawn]

I don't care about m+ tbh so I don't care how slow the delve gearing is as long as I can profess up difficulty continuously

[rain cave]

it's not difficult I'm just waiting around for defensives almost every pack

or kiting the entire time

[deep pawn]

Blizzard says the issue is once people are all 610 ilvl from delves their only other form of progression is either +7s, or heroic raid.

[rain cave]

web bolt is my most hated thing this xpac

[sullen dawn]

I just wanna be able to push harder and harder delves all season and get the best gear

The way some people do m+

[rain cave]

blizz putting 2 casters in the same pack that cast web bolt knowing I get almost 2 shot by them and I can only interrupt 1 sometimes