beta-ptr-spoilers

[rain cave]

if they want to be efficient

give 2 classes a little questline that pairs them up for a fantasy they overlap on

[sullen dawn]

I'm sure that would be a simpler development project

I'm not saying this based on project scoping though, I'm just saying what id like

[rain cave]

perhaps the wardens seek to redevelop their numbers after BFA/Legion, and after realizing that they can open their ranks to men (after the nelf heritage quest). So they go looking for DH's and Rogues to come learn

[sullen dawn]

It may not even be feasible

[rain cave]

SHamans and Druids going to learn more voodoo magics from the trolls, with the harranir acting as a bit of a bridge to the elves

[sullen dawn]

We just fundamentally disagree with the role class skins would play. To me they're a way of adding "new classes" without the balancing or design effort

Not a way of blurring class fantasies

[rain cave]

the issue there is that then people have to remake their characters

and it creats so much fluff for blizzard

it's not a sustainable or effective design approach

[sullen dawn]

They could give a one time option to change for max level characters

Or simply make it a 1 week cool down

[rain cave]

why the restriction?

why not just let people customize it if there's a reason for it

[sullen dawn]

There doesn't HAVE to be a restriction, it just might feel a bit weird changing class fantasy so abruptly whenever you want

[rain cave]

like I doubt there's just going to be random necromancers suddenly joining the alliance/horde. There would already be a questline or lore reason for their addition

[sullen dawn]

But I don't think the restriction has to be there. Just one option.

[rain cave]

so why not just let warlocks swap to those options

whenever

and theme it around that

[sullen dawn]

They could. I'm just saying it wouldn't say 'warlock' under the player any more

[rain cave]

green fire is a good class skin because it already plugs into many of the things warlock has. And is simple enough that it can be supported easily for future spell effects

[sullen dawn]

It'd say 'Necromancer'

But probably with the same class text colour (purple)

[rain cave]

but that doesn't really mean much and just causes confusion imo

because ifyou follow that through, and every class starts getting skins

[sullen dawn]

I think most players wouldn't have an issue

They're not idiots

[rain cave]

suddenly there's even more bloat in class names that people whave to remember

and with the issue of class colours being a bit hard to tell apart already

[sullen dawn]

I think that's fine. There's much more complex rpgs out there that require a lot more memory

[sullen dawn]

You could have (warlock) in brackets if you really want

Necromancer (Warlock)

[rain cave]

but it doesn't make a real difference

[sullen dawn]

Time for bed anywya

Later dude!

[rain cave]

just make warlocks be necromancers with a little questline it's the most straightforward way imo

cya

[sullen dawn]

Enjoyed debating

[rain cave]

<3

[uncut vault]

I mean that’s literally just a matter of adding a quest when they add the option

It was unthinkable to have man’ari paladins given the state of Draenei culture… until suddenly it was playable the same day they added story to explain it

[ember blaze]

add a glyph that replaces demons with DK summons, 99% of ppl won't care. 🙊

[rain cave]

I think they'd have to be a bit smarter than that

warlock summons are done in barber shop now

and they'd still have to roughly fit each archetype of summon

like you'd need a little undead hound thing for felstalker, perhaps some kind of mini abomination for the voidwalker, etc

tbh I think they best thing to do is questline to unlock them as I said before. Where warlocks realize that with the legion gone maybe it's harder to find demons to summon. So they turn to the Ebon blade for help and they reluctantly assist in teaching warlocks how to raise the dead/ necromancy

and then each pet is still the same rig or similar, but just an undeadified fleshy version

so imps could just be like little undead creatures that use the imp skeleton perhaps

felguard would just be a zombie dude with the felguard skeleton

[rain cave]

ye that's what I meant

as in there would need to be some sort of setup for it as an option

[ember blaze]

my point is that it can be as simple as a glyph and 99% of players wont care

i know some of you do require a storyline for it to make sense, but if someone just wants to summon undead over demons for a warlock, it's just that simple

boom necromancer class ppl want

[rain cave]

it's because as things stand right now, it wouldn't make sense for warlocks to summon undead

they can and probably would but atm they're not fitted for it

especially since their pets are more than hunter pets

[ember blaze]

it's just a cosmetic thing i dont get the big deal

[rain cave]

they are interactive and have a lot of specific effects/thematics

it isn't that's the thing

demonology

are wild imps going to be skeletons?

summoned from fel portals?

what about the bit pit lord from diabolist, and the shivarra

you'd still be casting all the fel/fire spells as well

[ember blaze]

all i know is people want skeletons

[rain cave]

if you want skeletons we have unholy

[ember blaze]

yeah but people want a range necromancer

[rain cave]

I know

[ember blaze]

and it really is just a glyph

[rain cave]

which is why warlock doesn't fit just as a simple pet change

[ember blaze]

to change your demons

cause thats all those players want

[rain cave]

people want something flavourful

not just a pet change

[ember blaze]

skeletons instead of an imp

[rain cave]

because if they just wanted an undead pet, unholy is there as I said

they want to feel like a necromancer

[ember blaze]

again, they want warlock

but with skeletons

[rain cave]

warlock mechanically fits but aesthetically doesn't

[ember blaze]

becaues skeletons

all theyre missing is a glyph for their demons thats it

fantasy fulfilled

[rain cave]

so addings skeletons/zombies to the demon modesl doesn't fit it

because everything else is still warlock

not necromancer

[ember blaze]

if they add them coming from the ground great, they put in more than 5 minutes of work

otherwise ppl just want different summons for the fantasy

[rain cave]

like imagine you're playing a shaman and they added a glyph that made all of your elementals void/light

but chanmged nothing else

wouldn't fit

if they ever do something necromancery for warlock, it'll have to be more than just a simple model swap.

the spec is demonology not necromancy

like they could do a hero talent spec for demonology that turns it into necromancy for sure

and replaces all the demons

[ember blaze]

when i think of necro i think affliction not demo

cause thats the class that is literally just a demon glyph swap

[rain cave]

I honestly think necromancer would make more sense as a frost mage hero spec

or lich

I'd call it lich

[ember blaze]

why tho

[rain cave]

replace icicles with shamblers

[ember blaze]

the closest thing to the whole necro fantasy is affliction

and warlock players are the ones that just want to summon skeletons

[rain cave]

ehh kind of

not fully

there's more to a necromancer than just undead

and plague

like sure that's a lot of it

but if you want plagues and undead, again we have unholy DK

and there's not much room to work with for a ranged necromancer thing without treading on unholy's toes

[ember blaze]

yeah but it goes back to the point that people want unholy, just range, and affliction is exactly that

[rain cave]

and so I pitch lich hero spec

for frost

that just adds some undead flavour to the frost spec

[ember blaze]

that sounds even more crazy

[rain cave]

and gives people a NEW take on an undead caster

so instead fo just being unholy ranged crammed into warlock where it's complicated and difficult to fit in with other specs

[ember blaze]

and it requires a whole new spec, over a simple summon change

[rain cave]

you just have a lich mage slinging undead and frost

no it's a hero spec

it just staples onto frost

uses their basic mechanics but repurposes them with new passives and effects

like other hero talents

like I think it fits. We already have hero talents that do similar stuff

[ember blaze]

yeah i think its even more crazy to expect blizz to put in that much work

im going with glyph being more likely

[rain cave]

if they're already planning on adding more hero talents/specs it's just one they could do for frost

and I reckon it's pretty self explanatory

[ember blaze]

haave they said theyre adding more?

[rain cave]

no, which is what I mean

if they're doing it

it's a good one to do if they're doing single spec hero trees for some specs next xpac

but if not

questline to allow warlock to summon undead would be the best bet. But it basically has to be done in a way that explains how the undead fit into theri kit

[ember blaze]

they use the same magic already no?

[rain cave]

warlocks use primarily shadow and fel

but fire as well

affliction shadow
demo fel
destruction fire

but they all bleed into eachother

[ember blaze]

yeah so wouldnt it be easy to just add some random group that likes undead magic more?

gg easy

[rain cave]

that's what I mean, there's room for them to do it it just needs to be contextualized

it's the issue that plagued tauren paladins when they were originally added

there was a solid lore reason for it

but wasn't communicated amazingly in game

[deep pawn]

Super small build, barely any hotfixes. The direct has to be massive.

[tropic trail]

I saw the new siren ring will make your character increase in size 👀

[sullen dawn]

You mean the 11.0.7 patch? Build typically doesn't refer to the overall patch itself usually

It's more about version control/iteration

And while I think the direct will have some tasty stuff I don't think there's any correlation between a small .0.7 latch and a large direct

[silent urchin]

it's larger than any of the DF .7 patches

[sullen dawn]

This too

[deep pawn]

I meant they haven't been doing much on retail last 10 days, near radio silence.

[sullen dawn]

Sure but that has nothing to do with direct size imo

Or at least, it's not an indicator

[silent urchin]

what should they be doing on live

[deep pawn]

Class tuning usually keeps going on a bit longer than they have been and so far 11.0.7 has no class changes really.

[sullen dawn]

Sure I'm just saying that has nothing to do with the size of the direct one way or another

Humans really do like to find patterns where they don't exist :p

[deep pawn]

Just me hoping they have something really worth saying for making it feel like they've "abandoned" the season.

[silent urchin]

what's abandoned, it's working basically the same as every other season does

[sullen dawn]

I really do think/hope they'll have some good stuff don't get me wrong but it's mostly gonna be for season 2 onwards and non wow stuff

We know the extent of what's coming pre season 2

[deep pawn]

not really? Tuning continued for longer into 10.0.5 and 10.0.7 had a ton of class updates

in fact, ret got a whole rework

So to me 11.0.7 feels a bit smaller than 10.0.7 but it could be active for twice as long?

[silent urchin]

Slightly more than 8 weeks cause of christmas?

[sullen dawn]

How will be 11.0.7 be active twice as long? Weren't you the one saying 11.1 would be in february? (which is more likely now I admit) . That'd be 7-8 weeks from Dec launch. 10.1 was 6 weeks after 10.0.7

If you take Xmas into consideration it's the same

And 11.0.7 has more "new" content than 10.0.7, the zone hasn't been seen before

[silent urchin]

It looks likely to be aimed for the 25th of february, that's when timeways and plunderstorm end

10 weeks, assuming 11.0.7 comes on the 17th december

But also over christmas

btw we're getting a revamped christmas event as well, to an extent

greench fight seems like it'll be all new

[uncut vault]

I was initially convinced they'd shift the schedule back for the holidays, but based on the winter veil mention on the splash screen and the event timing it seems like there's no breaks on the content machine lol

[silent urchin]

well if it is ten weeks that is slightly longer

just for 11.1, rather than .0.7

[deep pawn]

12/10 or 12/17 for 11.0.7. I just think 10 weeks on that patch is gonna feel long. I don't think another bout of Plunderstorm or Timeways will keep engagement up.

[silent urchin]

honestly having some breaks in pacing and people playing other stuff for a bit is healthy

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I'm not playing plunderstorm again

Shit was a slog and I have all the cosmetics j want

[deep pawn]

I think the changes they've done are an improvement, but it's still plunderstorm.

[uncut vault]

WoW and FFXIV taking two very opposite approaches to this is very funny

FFXIV's suffering from their patch content being way too backloaded post-patch, while WoW is just constantly piling on patches with no breaks lol

[deep pawn]

I don't know how FF14 fixes it without Square actually spending on the game and letting them develop faster

9 months between raid tiers is extreme.

[uncut vault]

I dont even think the raids are necessarily the issue, ultimates and alliance raids and the like are consistent enough between

its the content everywhere else that's the issue

like the exploration zone not coming until 7.25, almost a full year after xpac launch

or the relic grind also not coming until then

WoW's been thriving in the non-raiding content department by comparison, which helps retain the casual playerbase

[silent urchin]

also none of those being particularly innovative

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I'm just not interested in it

[deep pawn]

It's Japan, innovation isn't their strong point.

[uncut vault]

Honestly given Endwalker didnt have an exploration zone, it doesnt even need to be innovative given most of the big playerbase surge never experienced one as a current-content experience

it just needs to be in the game in a swift enough time to get people engaged post-launch

[deep pawn]

wasn't the big exodus during Bozja?

[sullen dawn]

Theyre more innovative than the US in regards to games imo, much more so

[uncut vault]

at the very end, so southern front was a faceroll and every zadnor phase had max level characters farming for levels

was still great and fun, but not the patch-by-patch gradual release experience

[deep pawn]

My impression of Japanese firms is they adapt only when forced to otherwise the safe formula is what they stick with.

[uncut vault]

in fairness, I think WoW was also in that rut for a while

[sullen dawn]

Nah. There financially conservative yes, but they find ways to be innovative within that constraint, which actually makes them even MORE innovative

[deep pawn]

Lowkey I'm waiting for the devs to drop the "4 zones, 8 dungeons" mantra.

[uncut vault]

not nearly as exxaggerated, but post-Legion we basically just got the same "patch zone with rare circle and world quests" for two straight expansions, with a single gimmick per patch

Shadowlands being such a disaster is the only reason they really opened their eyes to innovate for Dragonflight

[silent urchin]

There's been some changes to plunderstorm other than just the way currency works, although not entirely sure how it works

[sullen dawn]

US companies just spend way too much money chasing trends and being unable to create new ideas

[uncut vault]

and even in DF, I'd say the patches were way less strong than the base xpac

[deep pawn]

I'll forever be a 10.1.7 hater

that did not have to be a patch

[uncut vault]

part of why Im super intrigued to see 11.1, to see how they improve on how messy Zaralek was in basically every regard

[uncut vault]

Holly at least thankfully admitted that they know a bunch of the sub-patches didnt land very well, and that they need to do better

She was referring to 10.2.5 and the gilneas plot then, but I'd hope she meant all of them in general

[deep pawn]

My consistent issue is just how shallow patch stories have been

and then we get 11.0.5 which had none haha

[silent urchin]

I'm still half expecting something to emerge with the direct

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t know how doable it is but I really wish blizz brought back longer campaign storylines like in Legion

Suramar is like peak storytelling in modern wow

[deep pawn]

players hated them

or at least the raid crowd did

[pulsar minnow]

Well just don’t attach the raid to it

It’s a weird bind that we have to release raids at the beginning of patches, so then as a result the story has to be short so it directly leads in or half the chapters are just what happens after

Legion at least dropped the first raid based on leveling campaign, with the second raid being based on the max level campaign

But with the seasonal structure it just doesn’t happen anymore

Gameplay directly conflicts with storytelling

[deep pawn]

the opposite faction mounts confirmed to the direct

[sleek solar]

Recolors of them yes

[sullen dawn]

I don't think they should be a major challenge given they've just had three very successful underground zones

Or at least two every successful and one solid

Of do you mean from an overall patch sense and not just the zone?

[uncut vault]

Overall zone, story was a hard segue from the relevant story of Dragonflight that majorly hurt the characters involved and didn't progress the plot, attempts at event innovation were a pretty big dud as a replacement for rares and world quests

10.1 as a whole wasn't bad, Aberrus was good and the flightstone/crest introduction is the best thing Dragonflight added by far, but Zaralek in particular was messy

[pulsar minnow]

I feel like Zaraleks biggest shortcoming is honestly just its zone design

It’s one giant field leading into Abberus with a surrounding cliff area. It was kinda too open and I feel like that hurt the ability to tell a story as well

[sullen dawn]

And we've seen them learn how to do underground zones properly now so I'm not worried about that side of things for 11.1

[pulsar minnow]

Oh for sure

One awesome thing about war within is all the cave assets they’ve now amassed for future content or even a world revamp

[uncut vault]

The choices made in the black dragon plot are definitely a lot further reaching than just zone design haha

[pulsar minnow]

I’m talking from an overall zone perspective

Don’t get me wrong I hate what DF did to Wrathion, but in terms of designing an area for a plot and gameplay to take place in it really suffered. Nobody wanted to spend time in that zone

[deep pawn]

I liked the zone, it just felt like a detour

[rain cave]

we've had big tree zone and big underground zones for them to test

time for the big underground tree zone

[austere gazelle]

they abandoned dh altogether, that's for sure.

[rain cave]

lmao

they could do some very cool map design with rootlands tbf

[deep pawn]

I like Aldrachi on Vengeance while levelling at least haha

[rain cave]

like if there's a dried up root, we could literally fly through it

like that dungeon in pandaria and legion where you walk through the root system of a tree in some parts

but we fly through them like tunnels

also all the winding loops and such we can fly through, and maybe chunks of earth like floating island being held by the roots

[ember blaze]

i think it might be better if they keep it as a side quest thing as theyve been doing

[pulsar minnow]

Well side quests aren’t usually connected, but I think you’re right

Maybe like a new category of quest

Adjacent to the main storyline but a long continuous one with numerous parts

[sleek solar]

Ayooooo wtf is this???

[plain violet]

Old dragonflight quest during dracthyr intro!

[sleek solar]

Ohhh I never saw it before

I thought it was a non evoker quest 😦

[plain violet]

Oh yeah no. 😅

Sadly Orgrimmar do not have such an exclusive quest!

[sleek solar]

Ohhhh that would be why I never saw it before

[rain cave]

I hope they announce ascended nerubians as a playable race alongside harranir

does make me wonder if they're going to be faction locked or if they would both be neutral

I'm convinced they will be playable after looking at their animations they have so many. And it would fit well with the story

they're still missing a few anims and we've not really seen the same level of customisation as harranir. But we had a similar situation for nightborne in legion

I think they're still like that, the nightborne running around suramar aren't all fully rigged like the playable nightborne and use different textures/models, and were missing anims

I do wonder what factions harranir and ascended would go to though

[uncut vault]

Ascended nerubians are pretty unlikely sadly, the current story makes them way too much of a negative contrary to nerubian culture, and their models are even more unique than dracthyr's without the gimmick of evokers to justify them

[rain cave]

I feel horde harranir and ascended alliance, since Anduin vouched for the nerubians and he'd probably continue that. Also the void elves can vouch for them potentially as void infused entitites themselves.

harranir for horde since they're closer to trolls culturally, and it gives a horde feeling elf to the horde

[uncut vault]

haranir and nightborne are just modified night elves, no new animations explicitly needed

[rain cave]

from my playing of the story I was getting big vibes of the ascended being exiled or needing somehwere to go

because not all of them are evil per se, they were misled and/or forced to evolve

but it's also made clear they don't have a place in nerubian culture without ansurek, they're not really wanted and are too different

[uncut vault]

It's also a big point that they basically have a winter soldier kill switch in their heads, is the issue

[rain cave]

the nerubian story isn't over fully, we still have neferess to deal with, figuring out where she goes

[rain cave]

is that not resolved?

[uncut vault]

any story with them seems more likely to trend towards either a cure or the remaining ones becoming xal'atath's slaves

[rain cave]

I suppose that could be where their story goes

[uncut vault]

Nope, Ytekhi is still addled and broken, and it's made clear she can do that to all ascended any time she wants

[rain cave]

maybe continuing neferess's story she finds a way to become less horrific but still ends up an ascended

but like a cleansed version

and that's the gateweay to playable, since those models could also then be a bit different

[uncut vault]

I think they're more likely to just do haranir as playable, as the 'horde leaning' counterpart to Earthen

[rain cave]

would harranir be neutral then?

[uncut vault]

Thrall's being marketed for the Direct, Orweyna's being set up for 11.1, it's likely they'll be the main focus characters

[rain cave]

I do wonder if most races will be neutral going forward

[uncut vault]

Yeah, like I said basically the equivalent of Earthen where they're clearly Alliance-centric, but with small bits of story to justify neutrality

Instead of Magni and Moira, it'd be Gazlowe and Thrall playing the diplomatic role for them

[rain cave]

there's a sentiment that the harranir were originally planned for launch, you reckon they orignially planned to do earthen as alliance and harranir as horde?

but wanted earthen as a box launch feature when harranir weren't ready so just made them both neutral and offset their release schedules

[uncut vault]

I think they were always neutral, just because the DF-TWW team was very anti-faction (and a bit accidentally Alliance-focused as a result)

[rain cave]

fair

ig also depends on how locked in they were concept wise

since while yes TWW is worldsoul saga and chris metzens thing, he probably joined after stuff had already started being made or planned

even if it was just early stages

[ember blaze]

hope we never see faction locked races ever again

[uncut vault]

He joined during TWW patch development, is what's been said, and made small tweaks to TWW base story to accomodate a larger arc

[rain cave]

so perhaps there was plans for earthen and harranir, but they changed the story direction a smidge to make them seperate and let us focus on titan stuff and nerubians in first patch without overcrowding the story

[uncut vault]

if I had to bet, Xal'atath was almost certainly just planned as TWW's final boss prior to his return

[rain cave]

since there's a LOT of things being juggled even just in launch patch

[uncut vault]

the level of marketing she's getting rivals Arthas for Wrath lol, and he said that there was no actual set plan for the xpacs after until he came and changed things

[rain cave]

could even be that ringing deeps was the replacement for rootlands

since it's just largely another earthen zone

[uncut vault]

Original dev map always had it, it just had a fifth zone too

[rain cave]

sure it has its own aesthetic, but it's also the zone that's least different from others. And the kobolds aren't the entire aesthetic but are stapled onto the earthen, and awakening the machine is underdone

[uncut vault]

Ringing Deeps is pretty vital to the Earthen's story, and the worldbuilding of Khaz Algar in general

[rain cave]

oh yeah ik but I mean like it was later preproduction when that change happened

who knows

[uncut vault]

the original notes from Uldaman basically only described Ringing Deeps

the idea of an above ground island probably came later

[rain cave]

like it was always the plan but the plan changed in the later parts of plan making

I would love if they showed us some insight to the games development more haha

fascinates me

[uncut vault]

Maybe one day they'll be as open about the last few xpacs as they were about WoD/Legion

[rain cave]

if they did like a worldsoul saga retrospective that would be nice

even if it's more like a blogpost with a bunch of leads discussing wht it was like rather than intricate looks into some areas of development

[sleek solar]

Tbh, I like the Eathen more than I wanted to initially

[rain cave]

I like them conceptually

but their customisation options are kind of.. hard to work with

there isn't any just plain stony looking skin colours and their eyes don't have a nice gradient to them ,they're very uniform

[tropic trail]

Damn if they would put these alied races it would be so epic. Cause these ascended spiders look so damn cool

[sleek solar]

Ascended spiders is pretty much a no go, both lorewise and gameplay wise

[tropic trail]

They got 4 hands imagine needing 4 weapons 😂

[sleek solar]

xD

[sullen dawn]

Gazlowe too I think

[lone mantle]

Yes, please!

[deep pawn]

4 more days

[rain cave]

I disagree

they've got a lot of the animations already, and I do think they can be made to fit

and lore wise also yes

because their queen is dead and they will be exiled by the rest of nerubian culture. But aren't necessarily evil.

like the man'ari eredar we have, or even the OG green orcs. Zandalari as well

[sullen dawn]

They're currently under xals thrall. She can activate them at any time

[rain cave]

key word currently

[sleek solar]

Ok

They cant be trusted and require more work than dracthyr for transmogs

So disagree all you want, the chances are really small

[sleek solar]

Theyre more likely to stay in Xal ataths personal army then join the alliance or horde that dont like nerubians at all

[rain cave]

we have nerubian allies

I'm just saying there's a path to playable

but that they're not there now

imo if they're going to be playable it'll be like how vulpera/nightborne were different earlier on

I do hope they make them playable because I think they fit well into the current narrative as playables

[deep pawn]

We don't have Nerubian allies for real. They're using us.

The Weaver has no real care for the Arathi after all, she just needed them to fight Xal.

[sleek solar]

Exactly

[deep pawn]

If not for them breaking with the old gods they'd be the next Klaxxi.

[rain cave]

I don't really get that vibe from them

like sure they're not completely on board with us

the main nerubians want to just chill in their cave, that's what this is all about after all

they don't like their ways being changed by xal and ansurek

but specifically the nerubian ascended. They need somwhere to go after this

and once a cure to the mind control is found, even if it means their physical changes remain. They will probably not be welcome back in nerubian society, they have no pheromones, theyremind of ansureks reign

and who do we have who's open to accepting people like that? Alleria and Anduin

I atleast hope they use the ascendance as inspiration for the aesthetic of another race at some point

because they look so good

[sleek solar]

IF there is a “cure” or more like a solution

[rain cave]

I don't see why there wouldn't be, we've had loads of characters with similar arcs even alleria herself

[sullen dawn]

6 feet under 😄

My axe is ready

[rain cave]

I take it you also want to murder lightforged and void elves then?

nightborne as well?

[sullen dawn]

Void elves for sure

And my alliance paladin isn't too fond of nightborne. It depends which character I'm playing/roleplaying

I have a nihtborne mage who use vulpera for experiments

[rain cave]

it's funny to me how nightborne are meant to be mages but have the rig of the race with some of the worst casting animations

if we had a choice to make all your animations the global non-racial ones I'd do it for the nelf skeleton for sure

too much flamingo-ing and fake dual handed casting

[ember blaze]

or have more physical class options than magic ones

💀

[cobalt gulch]

any news? will 11.1 come next year?

[tropic trail]

December probably

[sullen dawn]

More like February march. 11.0.7 is December

[tropic trail]

Oh yea, I didn’t notice there was 1 in the middle 😅

Mostly excited for the siren isle for now on

[sleek solar]

Stellagosa and Valtrois?

[deep pawn]

yes

[sleek solar]

Thats adorable!

[tropic trail]

Mmmm 😋

Another couple, haha

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1855701972139024662

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft) on X

3 days left!

Tune in for a look at what's in store for Warcraft in 2025!

Nov 13 at 10am PST

Twitter · Nov 10, 2024, 8:00 PM

really excited for this

wonder rwhat are they doing with Classic

[sullen dawn]

Exciiiittteeeedddd

Is that Elise

[silent urchin]

yes

[pulsar minnow]

World of Warcraft Classic: Back to the Shadowlands.

Well I guess it wouldn’t be back to the shadowlands, but it would be horrible either way!

[deep pawn]

It's gonna be MoP classic, fresh hardcore vanilla, wc2 hd, and the roadmaps.

I'm guessing rumble is doing well enough but no idea what they add for that.

[dense plover]

I really wish the direct was on a weekend or much later in the day

I want the twitch drops but I’m a teacher

[rain cave]

SoD new stuff perhaps as well

[rain cave]

open it on your phone and keep it in a drawer on silent

alternatively open your PC at home and just have it on all day with the warcraft channels open

[upper pasture]

pretty sure they become streamer rewards after/during the direct too.

[dense plover]

Ah ok - so not limited to a very short window?

Do we have specifics yet?

[upper pasture]

so after the direct you can just want anyone who has drops enabled

In addition to watching the official YouTube channels for World of Warcraft, Warcraft Rumble, and Hearthstone, viewers can watch on any Warcraft, Hearthstone, or Warcraft Rumble stream on Twitch or TikTok to earn rewards during the giveaway period**.

Watching on any of the three platforms will earn in-game rewards for all three game titles.\

Start Time: November 13 at 10:00 am PST
End Time: December 11 at 10:00 am PST
Where to Watch: Twitch, YouTube, and TikTok

[deep pawn]

I don't think we're gonna see much SoD news. After p2/3 kinda failed they've done bare minimum

[upper pasture]

so yeah, any drop enabled stream will work and not just the main direct stream.

[deep pawn]

Next phase is even reusing bloodmoon

Though oddly SoD devs use discord to reveal stuff

My personal feelings is SoD failed once they made all the cool new runes end game phase content

No one wanted to do 10 levels with no new fun tools

[rain cave]

personally I felt I had no reason to play SoD

even though I thought it was very cool as a concept

but because it's classic WoW, and the runes aren't even that big of a deal. And it focuses a lot on lower level content with phases

for me it:
A) Doesn't have a compelling flashy draw of something new
B) Doesn't have a big enough new system to draw me in
C) Is mostly set in the parts of WoW I want to skip
D) Once I've missed 1 phase/ release there it feels like I've 'missed the ship' and no point in playing catchup

[dense plover]

Oh that’s a big time period

Ok

[rain cave]

also because it isn't retail it feels pointless to partake in for me

[deep pawn]

I had a blast doing it, but the phase changes just felt fumbled

It's like if hero talents didn't give you the active ability untill level 80 and you did 10 m0s

[rain cave]

if it was more like that "fan project" wink winkdesign where you they have a load of runes that fully allow you to manipulate your classes abilities, like turning fire mages/ priests into radiant holy fire casters with things that interact with and turn fire/holy damage into radiant and then give effects based on that

because they did do some stuff but I never heard of anything crazy happening

also I felt a bit let down when some of the runes were just retail effects backported to classic

idk, just not for me in how it's done.

I feel like if I'm playing that I'm not playing retail, and to me retail is the only one that matters (personally)

[deep pawn]

The classic team is just far to small.

I liked the class design and I didn't mind retail abilities

It's just I hate the levelling grind after the first time.

It's just they backloaded all the fun runes into the phase level cap

So you have a level 40, congrats it's gonna play the same until level 50 and you do a bunch of dungeons

That's demoralizing as hell

[rain cave]

I think they also leaned too much into keeping things hush hush with the secrets

[deep pawn]

Oh finding the runes was fun

[rain cave]

it was marketed as a big mysterious thing with things to discover, but then the only big lore thing was xalatath tease

I feel like if they marketed it at least with an initial hook for some of the mysteries

like an example of "Strange crystals litter the hidden areas of rural azeroth, seek them out to unlock their secrets"

as a line in the announcement for it

because sure stumbling into it IS very cool. And there are those sorts of things already present, but I need something to go on. Even just a little tease that comes back around in the long run.

[sleek solar]

Maybe the kids can teach you how to watch the stream without the teacher noticing!

Have you ever seen them using their phones?

[dense plover]

Yes I catch them 100% of the time

They’re terrible at it

[rain cave]

I'm so glad we didn't have any teachers at my school who'd confiscate phones if you were caught on them lmao

I would have kicked up such a storm xD

even though I was the only person actually interested in lessons it felt like sometimes

throwback to when my english teacher got mad at me because I was logged onto the teachers intranet with my mums login reading stuff

[sleek solar]

Oh xD

[uncut vault]

Paladins also have a pretty massive and great storyline

but other classes aren't near as up to par sadly

[plain violet]

I do love the concept of the priest ring, but yeah..

[rain cave]

god the things they could do in midnight for legendary's

[plain violet]

The concept of it was "you can go to the opposite faction cities with this ring if another priest vow for you"

[rain cave]

mentioning questlines/classic style items

[plain violet]

And gosh for RP purposes, it's awesome.

Yes!

[rain cave]

we're going to probably have all the windrunners assembled, and we've already had 2 of their bows available to us

and vereesa is the one closest to silvermoon, she lives there and is just a normal high elf

so would not surprise me at all if hunters get Vereesa's bow

or atleast a bow from her

[uncut vault]

Well she doesnt have a unique bow haha, not until they canonize her having thori'dal

but she also doesnt live in Silvermoon, her current status is a big question mark after Alleria's comments

[rain cave]

even better, giving her an uprezzed thoridal that she passes on to us?

I feel a "my fighting days are done" story would fit her character

dalarans blown up, her husband is dead, her children need their mother. Silvermoon is being rebuilt right now

they need someone to just manage the high elves as a people, and she's pretty much the only one

[uncut vault]

Her kids are almost adults :P

[rain cave]

almost

but who knows what their plans are for her

they better use her properly in midnight she's had it rough lore wise xD

[uncut vault]

High elves getting a monotonous reunion with Silvermoon is basically a worst case scenario for their story for me, so I hope they don't just try to retire her into a clerical role like that

The fact that they didnt have her show up for the Dalaran quests is still wild to me

[rain cave]

Alleria stole her spotlight lmao

but I feel Alleria makes more sense for the narrative at large, adding Vereesa into there might make things a bit noisy

[uncut vault]

See, I feel like Vereesa being present would have helped to ground Alleria's story better

her plot is kind of just nothingburger in the base xpac because she flits off immediately and everyone forgets about her

having Vereesa in the same boat, but being a proper leader amidst her grief would have been the perfect contrast to show the folly of the path Alleria was going down

because Vereesa's experienced that loss again and again and again, whereas Alleria was absent for all of it

We keep getting told about the importance of family to Alleria, but so far her family just isn't present at all, and Turalyon plays a bit part simply to remind her that she's good

[rain cave]

I guess they're trying to not over-elf us before midnight?

[uncut vault]

If only that was a concern during the last six years of nelf lol

[rain cave]

though that hasn't stopped them before

LOL

I love how so much of the story has been "main plot that ends up quite related to night elf lore while thrall stands around" for a while

[uncut vault]

Well here's hoping the haranir avoid that at least

[rain cave]

saw someone say Azeroth is actually Elune with some potential narrative evidence and I was like "oh god please don't"

[sullen dawn]

I hope we get WoD remix

That expansion deserves it so much

It's two biggest problems (over focus on garrison, and being dropped half way through lifecycle) wouldn't apply to a remix scenario so I actually think it'd do really well

[rain cave]

WoD remix but they theme and add new effects based on the fact it's Draenor

wild elementals, arcane ogres, felblood, crazy blooming life stuff

could do things like having extra effects for different damage types,
like fire damage having an Ignite like effect on surrounding enemies,
the ogre magi "dumb luck" effect of perhaps having wildly changing critical damage,
felblood to buff yourself with blood rage in a sort of "surrender to madness" effect but for anyone

[warm topaz]

i would love things like that questline for retail

i miss so much class specific content

things like the Warlock questline in DF to custom the pets

[rain cave]

it's honestly shocking they haven't tried to add more stuff like those classic weapon quests (benediction, lok'delar) or the hidden artifact appearances secrets

I'm hoping the secrets people are chasing right now for anniversary is what unlocks the other tints for the anniversary sets

that would be a nice touch

they've been completely silent about those

[warm topaz]

order halls are there (well, not for mage or rogue), but still, why don't they use them?

[rain cave]

god imagine if warriors could get a little questchain where they enter the arena and prove themselves a fierce gladiator in a zekvir (lower level not the higher one) difficulty fight against waves, and got a special title + tmog from it

fuck it give us an uprezzed Zin'rokh after fighting in a gurubashi arena questchain

some shoulders with broken troll tusks adorning them

I'm just curious to see some cool class fantasy stuff reflected in Tmog that is outside the traditional raid/event/ trading post stuff

paladin quest that involves nelf paladins becoming a thing? unlocks transmog for an elune paladin mog that is a bit more race agnostic rather than just being nelf aesthetic

new ashbringer-esque weapon with a tear of elune as the core go for it blizz let's see what ideas you have xD

Midnight would be a good potential point to bring that sort of stuff back imo

[sullen dawn]

Order halls returning as a permanent addition would be a sick direct reveal

[rain cave]

as far as we know they're not planning on adding major new systems rather than continue supporting the current systems through into multiple expansions

cannot wait to see what midnight is cooking xD

[sullen dawn]

I'm in full hype "anything is possible mode" even though it'll likely just be 11.1 focus, roadmap, wc2 remastered and Wc3 reforged 2.0, and hearthstone/rumble stuff

[sullen dawn]

Didn't they midnight woudl bring major systems that would blow people's socks off?

Or do you just mean in TWW?

[rain cave]

I mean in the context of they're not scrapping hero talents, they said they're not scrapping delves

[sullen dawn]

Oh I know those are evergreen features

[rain cave]

so there won't be a "new" thing to replace it like Artifacts and Azerite

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I'm aware

[rain cave]

so they do maybe have some room to go out of their way for more other stuff

like class specific content

[sullen dawn]

But theyll still add more systems in next expansions. They'll likely just be evergreen too

The philosophy isn't "only tww will have new systems, next expansions will expand them" it's "moving forward major expansion systems will be designed as evergreen and expanded in following expansions"

[rain cave]

I'm still a fan of the idea of pairing up classes for their quests, not only because it makes it more appealing from a production standpoint but also because we get the rare chance to see classes play off eachother in a story

and sets it up to have more as they could get other pairings in future quests if it's a success

[sullen dawn]

So midnight and tlt will bring new stuff too just like dragon rising in DF and delves in tww

I dunno where quests comes into this

[rain cave]

like what would happen if warlocks and paladins had to team up for a little questline?

what sort of story could they both get tangled in that would be relevant to them both specifically

[sullen dawn]

You're talking about a seperate topic right?

[rain cave]

I'm talking about this sort of stuff

[sullen dawn]

What sort of stuff

[rain cave]

look at replied message

unique tmog/items/rewards for classes from little fun side things

like the stuff I listed

[sullen dawn]

Midnight adding socks blowing content?

[rain cave]

I don't know what that means

[sullen dawn]

Holly said the features being introduced in midnight would blow people socks off

[rain cave]

I mean we'll see

[sullen dawn]

That's the only message of mine I see you quoted

[rain cave]

no I didn't quote your message

I quoted mine

[sullen dawn]

*message, damn auto correct

[deep pawn]

There's a new feature in midnight. We don't know yet.

I'm personally thinking something netherlight crucible flavored

[rain cave]

if it's mechanical I assume either more hero specs or perhaps new specs all together?

[sullen dawn]

I'm sure more than one like most expansions

[warm topaz]

please no more hero specs

[rain cave]

please more hero specs from me

[sullen dawn]

Given she said it would blow people's socks off my guess is player housing or something equally big

[rain cave]

there's more fantasies I want to be able to play

[sullen dawn]

She said it's gonna be something really big

[rain cave]

would fit with silvermoon

they've definetly been setting up areas for it atleast

[warm topaz]

wait, who is she

what did i miss

oh Holly

[deep pawn]

Every spec gets to pick between some void and light powers

[sullen dawn]

We'll actually she said "there's a few features coming in midnight that will really blow people socks off"

[warm topaz]

when did she speak about Midnight?

[sullen dawn]

Yeh a while ago

[sullen dawn]

Let me find quote

[warm topaz]

i miss that interview 👀

[rain cave]

idk why Netherlight so specifically here since that was such a niche little bonus thing at the end of legion

I doubt they'd bring it back specifically but I do agree that we'll get some sort of light/void exploration for classes

[sullen dawn]

Question: Is there concern that player excitement and surprise will be tempered with the announcement of the next 3 expansions?
Answer: There's still so much more to dive into and to announce with each expansion that should help keep players engaged including a strong cohesive narrative. Features in Midnight are expected to blow players' socks off.

[rain cave]

Anduin embracing discipline priest life finally?

hunters getting those alleria spell effects I know they're craving

[sullen dawn]

FeatureS

[rain cave]

I just wonder how that would slot into the hero spec system we have now (the void ranger stuff)

[warm topaz]

Holly never gives PR answers

and i love her for that

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I actually believe her. Midnight features gonna give us heart attacks 😄

[warm topaz]

i would say that that there's a lot of devs in WoW team that are good in interviews

Ion, Morgan, María, Holly

[sullen dawn]

Some. There's also a lot of bullshitters

I don't like Mario Hamilton ngl

Maria lmao

[warm topaz]

i do, also the classic team, specially Josh and Tim

[sullen dawn]

Feasel is goat

But he rarely does interviews

[silent urchin]

maria gives amazing answers though

[deep pawn]

Hell even if it's a passive twilight Devastation most people would be ecstatic.

[warm topaz]

i saw the T&E one they give back when alpha was announced

that one was really* good

[sullen dawn]

I feel like she's up her own arse a bit. Her answers are more about her design philosophy than player centric. But I'll stop there I don't wanna make this a conversation about criticising Devs

[warm topaz]

oh man, i prefer 1000% more design philosophy answers than player centric

but that's me

[sullen dawn]

I do as context

But not as the main meat

Ion strikes the right balance imo, at his best anyway

Sometimes it feels like he's bit restricted about what he can say..although less so recently

[warm topaz]

also the interviewer must be good, Naguura is the 🐐 on that

T&E, also Max

[deep pawn]

The only reason I say netherlight crucible is because it's an existing lore tool for mixing light and void powers

[sullen dawn]

But anyway

Midnight features!

Player housing is obviously the big elephant in the room

I would have said class skins but they're probably not in the cards for now at least with hero talents newly arrived

It's hard to think what else would fit that definition of "blowing players socks off"

[warm topaz]

a dye system? hahahaha

[sullen dawn]

Lmao I wish

[warm topaz]

that would not be mega crazy

but really good

[sullen dawn]

Id still be happy with it

Really happy

The amount of "almost the same but also slightly different" shades of colours in the game is annoying

When it comes to mogging

[warm topaz]

speaking about interviews, someone ask about a dye system in a group interview and they say no iirc

[sullen dawn]

Yeh I don't think we'll get it

Diablos one is real nice but there's way less transmog

[warm topaz]

also, when do you think they'll announce Midnight?

should be before Summer right?

[silent urchin]

Wednesday

[warm topaz]

i've seen some people saying that

and it could be tbh

[sullen dawn]

They already did right :p

I think the alpha will be in the 2025 roadmap

But not sure we'll see feature overview until 11.2 hits

Maybe a bit before but not much

Hopefully I'm wrong

[warm topaz]

but it would be weird, imagine a cinematic or something like that of 12.0

let's say Xal wins in TWW and the Void invade Azeroth

[sullen dawn]

I think it's a bit soon for that

[warm topaz]

that would be a mega huge spoiler

yeye, but just saying

[sullen dawn]

I do expect something midnight on Wednesday though. Alpha in roadmap at the least

[warm topaz]

that could be yeah

[sullen dawn]

But mostly "teaser" not "blowout"

[rain cave]

kill final boss of TWW and the cinematic trailer for midnight plays

that would go hard

[warm topaz]

that would be amazing

[sullen dawn]

Could be like a 15 second teaser cinematic that says like "The Void is Coming - Q1 2026"

[rain cave]

like guldan + illidan one?

[warm topaz]

my guess tbh is the last raid of Midnight will be Azeroth birth

[sullen dawn]

Just showing shadow of k'aresh or something. Not much got he cinematic. Just for hype

[warm topaz]

or the titans coming to Azeroth

something huge, like Sargeras in 7.3

[sullen dawn]

I think titans will arrive in TLT reveal cinematic

[deep pawn]

If we see winter 11.1 and summer alpha things are gonna go fast

[sullen dawn]

There's no way alpha slips to 2026 imo

So it SHOULD be in the 2025 roadmap

[deep pawn]

Well there's a big time difference between summer alpha and a late fall alpha

[warm topaz]

March could be a good month for 11.1

if 11.0.7 comes out on December

[sullen dawn]

Yep but both would fall into a 2025 roadmap timeframe that's my point

[warm topaz]

as people is saying bc this calendar thing

[sullen dawn]

Regardless of whether it's summer or fall

[deep pawn]

I'm still low-key hoping the ptr is wrong on timewalking cause I don't wanna be stuck in this season until March.

[sullen dawn]

My guess is august for midnight alpha

[sullen dawn]

March was always my main guess

As you know

[warm topaz]

TWW alpha was in July right?

or June? i don't remember

[deep pawn]

Testing has been getting shorter and shorter. An August alpha would make me think January prepatch

Which feels a bit fast.

[sullen dawn]

TWW alpha was like march this year

[warm topaz]

i'm mega worry of that

[sullen dawn]

Could be later, only think I'm sure of it's this year

[warm topaz]

the testing thing not the dates

[deep pawn]

That's why I think if we see early February season 2, summer alpha, we'll see s3 in like July.

[warm topaz]

makes sense yeah

[deep pawn]

Buuuut, that depends on them not delaying the 8 week cadence for Christmas

[warm topaz]

we'll see on Wednesday

with the road map

[deep pawn]

Regarding features, Blizzard knows we expect and demand new power tools each expansion but not as "borrowed"

So I expected midnight and tlt to both layer on something

And then 14.0 rests us to base trees and hero trees.

[warm topaz]

you mean talents pre DF?

i remember Ion talking about that

or just the base tree

like 10.0

[deep pawn]

I think talent trees stay but they just rework them all to keep the most favored of tlt and midnight abilities

[warm topaz]

i wonder how are they going to iterate on hero talents

[deep pawn]

Blizzard is fully aware of the future them ability bloat.

[sullen dawn]

I think they'll add brand new systems but they'll be evergreen too

Like player housing

[warm topaz]

rework them and make them skins 🐐

[deep pawn]

That's why I'll be shocked if 14.0 doesn't feature a level squish

[sullen dawn]

Not everything has to be player power related

In fact that's the least interesting stuff imo

[warm topaz]

a stat squish is coming on Midnight tho

[sullen dawn]

More RP features please

[deep pawn]

People demand new player power abilities. I don't think what's next will be as indepth as hero talents, it'll be more role generic.

[sullen dawn]

I know a lot of people do but to me it's boring

Id rather RP features and systems

[deep pawn]

Give healers a more holy colored reservoir from essences, tanks get twilight Devastation.

[sullen dawn]

Or stuff like dragonflying

It's not player power but it's cool and adds a lot to the game, plus it's evergreen. That's the stuff we need more of

[deep pawn]

There could be both, but there'd be riots if an expansion didn't change how people play or visually play.

Picking between recolored corruptions, essences, and Shadowlands abilities based on role could give some of that light vs void thematics while being more visual than active so easier to balance.

Give me a holy fire meme beam

The reservoir essence is another great pick for that in its passive like a trinket but you can see it fill.

I think just having all those animations and not using them somehow is a huge opportunity

[rain cave]

I mean they could just keep adding hero specs with new expansions

it's not talent bloat in the vertical sense, just adds more horizontal options#

[deep pawn]

That won't work cause people won't want to abandon their current hero specs they like

[rain cave]

I think people are always happy to try new stuff

otherwise why add new classes

adding new hero specs to me gives them the ability to add the sort of stuff classes would add to the game (new fantasies, aesthetics, spells) without the baggage that comes with adding a whole new class (especially as the fantasy well begins to run a bit thin BECAUSE of things like hero talents)

[uncut vault]

All I’ll say is, there’s a conspicuous lack of any tech-based hero specs

||Tinker confirmed ||

[rain cave]

that's the stinker of a tinker

it would fit

my bet is they're going to add a new hero spec for every class that is available to all of the specs

since just adding one that gives a 3rd option to only 2 of the specs for each class seems a bit weird

and if they do that themed around say, midnight. I'm assuming Void ranger for hunter, Void paladins or elune perhaps as well. They said the sacred flame is arcane and light specifically like the sunwell so maybe a sunwell light style mage?

or they could do void elf magister umbric style magic

but honestly who knows

[deep pawn]

New hero trees just would make people mad since existing builds get nothing new

I do think we could see a new class in midnight

If not tinker it'd be naga related

[rain cave]

well obv they'd still tweak older ones

since the base talent trees would also change

[rain cave]

we're getting a bit skint on the class colours atm

it's hard telling apart evoker from monk as it stands

perhaps a darker class colour if it's a voidy class?

since all the others are bright shades

[deep pawn]

It'd still be a situation where current hero trees would feel like they got less than new ones.

No, I don't think we'll see 2 new hero trees per class.

[rain cave]

I don't mean that

[deep pawn]

Even if the current ones had a little vertical expansion

[rain cave]

I mean 1 per class

available to every spec not like the originals

[deep pawn]

Even that.

[rain cave]

we'll see

the hero talent system just seems ripe to added to

[deep pawn]

At that point you'd just be better off making it something on top of current kits

[rain cave]

because otherwise in my head it just complicates future class design

[deep pawn]

That's gonna happen regardless until they get to a point they reset power

They aren't doing that until after the saga

Blizzard is very clear of that issue when discussing hero talents not being borrowed, they said it'd be a problem for future blizzard

Whatever they add in midnight will be 10-30% of class spec power and existing stuff will be smaller, same in TLT.

[uncut vault]

I have a feeling they might be a bit sneaky with some, and simply expand options rather than do a full set of new ones for all specs

like for hunter, dark ranger works for all three specs, sentinel works for all three specs, pack leader needs a rework anyways but it can work for marksmanship with a proper fantasy

[deep pawn]

I feel they have struggled to make some trees work for 2 specs let alone 3

[rain cave]

waves at shaman

[glass flicker]

What's the offchance that they simply will just add more passives to each hero tree?

[ember blaze]

how do you add voidweaver to holy priest

[uncut vault]

Same way as how shadow already uses shadow spells in DPS or shadow uses holy spells to heal and shield haha

[glass flicker]

If I remember right, Shadow Mend and Shadow Word: Pain are baseline to all specs.

[deep pawn]

shadow mend is gone

but SW:Pain is available to holy

[glass flicker]

Shadow Mend is no more? :O

Finally, I can peacefully interrupt ye priests.

No more plan B for you.

[sullen dawn]

Only player power stuff, but again that's not as interesting as general gameplay or RP stuff

[deep pawn]

I'm sure they'll add some but I doubt housing will ever come.

[sullen dawn]

It'd be a gold mine for them

Engagement wise, and also micro transaction wise

Not saying it's coming in midnight although one can hope

[uncut vault]

Well, not thanks to voidweaver haha

Disc transforms their spells between light and shadow schools often

[ember blaze]

was always weird to me. They could have just kept shadow mend for shadow and just changed the color of PW;Shield

Then you got holy priest with shadow word pain when they got a cool holy dmg dot already

like I can see it for disc since their whole idea is using both, but it seems like holy is supposed to be a focus on holy magic no?

kinda weird to have holy dip into shadow/void magic more

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1856034436199874779

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft) on X

Celebrate Azeroth’s most epic moments and tune in to Warcraft Direct this Wednesday!

Twitter · Nov 11, 2024, 6:01 PM

[sullen dawn]

Blizz needs to move to threads or bluesky 😦

[sleek solar]

No not really

[tropic trail]

Warcraft direct? What’s that?

[upper pasture]

we don't really know but i'm assuming it's like a summer games fest/ games showcase but just for warcraft IPs

this will be the first of it's kind

basically a "what's next" for all things warcraft

[sullen dawn]

I don't wanna visit the Nazi site though 😦

[sleek solar]

Uhhh what?

But your problem, not other people

That trailer looks awesome

[rain cave]

tbf I can't complain about people disliking and not wanting to give engagement to twitter

[rain cave]

https://youtu.be/V3-yEM77XBU

here's yt link

[sleek solar]

I dont really care about the owner, I care about the few times I visit it to see things like this

[upper pasture]

i was gonna say doesn't blizzard usually cross post to yt?

[sleek solar]

Yup

So its complaining about nothing lol

[rain cave]

also laughing at how WoD got 4 shots in the trailer 2 of which were just cutting to zoom ins of the same shot lmao

[upper pasture]

SLs had one shot no?

[rain cave]

omg lol you're right

I just saw it

[upper pasture]

i chuckled

[rain cave]

xD

[sullen dawn]

Thanks

[deep pawn]

Is the anniversary event gonna wrap up all the sad storylines?

[uncut vault]

Maybe we'll get full closure on Mankrik's wife lol, since him and his new boo are there

[silent urchin]

It seems likely, for various reasons

[warm topaz]

description of the presentation

"special announcement at the end" 👀

[upper pasture]

i think the "special announcement" is the orchestra stuff at the end no? i'm very excited to see that video although i'd much rather hear it in person

[warm topaz]

we know that already i think

ig it's a surprise

maybe TBC maybe 11.2 teaser, maybe classic +

[upper pasture]

oh that's specifically for just WoW

[warm topaz]

yeah!

there are descriptions for the other games too

[upper pasture]

oh i cannot wait.

[silent urchin]

oh here's the nerfbat for mythic queen

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mythic-queen-ansurek-adjustments-13-november/548520/1

[rain cave]

"we know you've been waiting for more classic content. Something like a classic+... well we decided to go further. We want to make a whole new experience that caters to that desire. Introducing World of Warcraft: Echoes for mobile devices launching 2025"

[silent urchin]

not a huge surprise as the HOF isn't even close to filled

[worn crown]

WarCraftBr (Brazil) Official has a Threads account 🙂

[silent urchin]

https://bsky.app/profile/warcraft.bsky.social not certain if its official but it seems to be mirroring their twitter for now

at least some of it

[zealous sedge]

I hope the special announcement is a legion remix

[upper pasture]

as much as i want that or another remix i hope it's a new feature

[upper pasture]

my copium wishes for player housing showcase XD

a look back that their world building and now we get to add to it too!

[pulsar minnow]

Do we know if the special announcement is specifically for WoW? Or just for the Warcraft franchise in general

Nvm I looked. Says it’s after classic and modern wow. Super crazy idea and very unlikely but how sick would it be if it was a show announcement. That said maybe I’ve just been watching Arcane too much

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-26881270

my bet is new tinker class for the goblin patch

[rain cave]

God that would be chaotic

[ember blaze]

with the introduction of a ranged spec that uses guns that isnt hunter

🙏 its dual wielding pistols

[rain cave]

We don't even have pistols

[deep pawn]

Tinker Class or Shaman Tank

[ember blaze]

hunters and rogues do

[rain cave]

Hunters don't

And the rogue pistol is a spell model

Not a piece of gear they equip

[ember blaze]

survival pulls something out like rogues do

just let em dual wield the big ass guns idc

fury can do it with swords

[uncut vault]

Explosive shot uses the same pistol model as the rogue one, they use it more than the crossbow nowadays haha

[deep pawn]

So, Spanish WoW Youtuber is hyping up the special announcement

[rain cave]

That's so weird lmao

Why would they even use a pistol for that lmao

Isn't the fantasy of explosive that it's literally just a stick of dynamite attached to an arrow

[deep pawn]

survival

[rain cave]

Yes that's what I mean

[sleek solar]

Survival does not use a bow

Its a melee spec

[sullen dawn]

If he doesn't work for blizz that's kind of irrelevant?

YouTubers have no special insight into the announcement t

[deep pawn]

eh, content creators get early access these days

[sullen dawn]

They haven't to this

[deep pawn]

alrighty, leaks happen overseas all the time though

[austere gazelle]

Hope we'll get some DH announcement ( copium )

Barely any kind of change on the class since DF S3

meanwhile other classes have tons of hotfix

and design changes

[sullen dawn]

"overseas" tell me you're American without telling me you're American

Nothing's leaked imo, occam's razer says they're building hype for views/engagement

[austere gazelle]

nothing leaked yes, but I bet some influencer and youtuber are on the touch.

They do this everytime , and those who leak and dont comply are shut off from that after

( remember the leak about the Jailer original design )

[sullen dawn]

That was from blizzcon

In an "art of shadowlands" display

[austere gazelle]

no

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/47196-wow-shadowlands-the-jailers-identity-revealed-in-early-concept-art/

[sullen dawn]

Yes it's from blizzcon 2019 in a press only section

lmao pyro didn't leak it

He was just covering the leak

He literally says that in the video

And I saw it before he made the video

Just remembering, it was during blizzcon but was at the blizz HQ not the convention centre

I think it was a press person took a photo if I remember correctly

There was no "YouTuber/influencer" early access to information there. It's a completely different scenario

[deep pawn]

You don't think there could be media packs out under embargo? Lol

[sullen dawn]

Sure I do

I just think the typically go to real press and a very select few YouTubers who actually do real media coverage

The ones who get it keep their mouths shut

And it's not how the Jailer image leaked

[deep pawn]

Given how early stuff like Plunderstorm and Remix were known and "hinted" at by content creators, I'm sure a lot have an idea what is coming

oh, is the owner of the biggest Spanish website, not a youtuber only.

[silent urchin]

the media packs largely go out only the day before

or possibly two days

[deep pawn]

well that would have been Monday or Today

[silent urchin]

And they will cut off anyone who even gives the slightest leak, you'll never get one again

[sullen dawn]

Yeh PR blacklists are very strict

[silent urchin]

I think the plunderstorm stuff came out cause they invited a bunch of content creators, rather than regular press, to do the sponsored one

[sullen dawn]

Yeh and it was a lot of them

Even chuds like asmongold

[deep pawn]

Max loves to go "I'm gonna play the next patch content non stop"

[tropic trail]

They were speculating if the true Jailer isn’t Primus himself

[rain cave]

Yes

But I'm saying that the pistol doesn't make sense to me as survivals explosive shot

They use a lil crossbow

[sleek solar]

Oh I thought they did use a lil crossbow

I play surv main, never really paid attention to it

😭😭😭😭

Nola’s voice actress passed away last year, this is a nice send off 😦

[rain cave]

Aw rip

[deep pawn]

she'll live on for as long as WoW does

[sleek solar]

Yes

I loved her blizzcon moment sooo much

[worn crown]

DH got a full rework DURING DF, while a lot of other specs that neeied (like DKs) got it only in WW. I think DHs are fine as it is, just need a numbers pass

[deep pivot]

any datamining from the SoD PTR client yet?

is it even possible yet

[worn crown]

Eh, Occams razor is a very simplist principle. In fact it makes me think of positivism, which I hate. All opinion here, ofc

[rain cave]

they got reworked into some silly stuff though

especially with hero talents on top

a lot of other classes have already had their archs of similar problems being designed out so it's weird to see DH's be put back into those issues

like the issues with throw glaive + felrush being core to the rotation with short uptime on those buffs

trying to cram everything you can but also having a lot of setup

having to wait for eyebeam before metamorphosis

[sullen dawn]

I completely disagree with positivism and imperialism

I only mention occam's as it's a simple way of getting your point across in a non scientific context

It's a rule of thumb, not a rule of science

Observation alone is not a way of creating true knowledge. That can only be done through an ongoing feedback loop between conjecture and criticism

Objectively true knowledge does exist, it's ust really hard to know when we have it

[austere gazelle]

they aren't, and its a void argument.

Rogue got a rework during DF ( same time as DH btw ) , pals too, and they still have rework, tweaks and changes.

There are fundamental flaws in the DH talents tree that are just the tip of the iceberg in term of issues

( https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/havoc-demon-hunter-an-analysis/1991640 )

[rain cave]

Imo they should loosen their definitions of what "demon hunter" is

To let themselves be more creative

There's sigils, tranaformation, weapon mastery, chaos and fel flame magic, etc

Why does havoc just revolve around pretty similar core regardless of build

Where's the capstone that changes meta into a different form? What about sigils? Could we have a playstyle focused around physical over chaos?

[uncut vault]

I still feel like them or rogue should have gotten a Warden hero spec

[rain cave]

I think warden would be a great one to add in midnight

Elves being the topic

But I agree

[dreamy dove]

Aldrachi reaver isn’t physical? (Asking, never played it but it give me those vibes)

[dreamy dove]

Would be cool to have a new class, even if only for elves
Like idk, but could have warden and spellbreaker as hero talents

[rain cave]

I mean Normal talents

Like every other class usually has distinct playstyle differences going on

Fire mage has sun King, living bomb, scorch procs, big combustion, meteors, combustion procs

Whereas every DH talent build revolves around fel devastation for vengeance. Or fel rush for havoc

And throw glaive sometimes ig (but that's still always with fel rush)

it doesn't help that DH has a lot of "dead" talents that don't contribute in normal gameplay or aren't worth taking due to not actually being worth much

[ember blaze]

maybe the dev just isnt good enough or creative

he's the same guy behind rogue isnt he 🤔

lots of lame stuff in there 🤔

[rain cave]

green are all the meaningful DH talents that they WANT to take usually 100% of the time if they can

red are the talents that are basically useless for DPS or are just too niche

yellow is very niche talents that don't have any chance of being taken because of their positioning

like why is it a talent point for the effect "All sigils are placed at your targets location"

especially since that node is competing with a "5% increased maxiumum health" node that connnects to the exact same + more nodes, that get you closer to green talents

and even looking at the green talents, the Hunt is just a button you press for damage it doesn't interact with mechanics other than giving an aldrachi reaver glaive charge, which is debateably awkward because....

sigil of spite makes soul shards which gives aldrachi glaive charges

but also doesn't interact much other than that

not to mention felscarred is usually taken over aldrachi

and the other capstone just adds a buff to eye beam passively, but as a seperate thing not a modifier you can stack (as it's a seperate damage instance)

[ember blaze]

the hunt has no talents affecting it at all?

💀

not even in spec tree?

[rain cave]

so basically all 3 end talents for DH class tree don't interact with felscarred at all. And when they do interact with aldrachi, it's ok. But just adds ANOTHER awkward button to fit into an opener that is packed lready

there is 1 talent in spec tree for havoc

and it's momentum lmao

and most people choose inertia anyway

[ember blaze]

the hunt was a cool talent that everyone begged them to keep

and the dev did nothing with it

[rain cave]

I think it is cool as well I just don't think it's implemented well

[ember blaze]

fits dh well imo

[rain cave]

I think the issue for me is that all it is, is a button that just does a big number

like imagine if you had to choose between demonic and getting more frequent low duration metas, or buffing the hunt to give you meta and another buff like marking a target to turn your auto attacks/ demons bite into chaosstrike damage so it can interact with mastery and chaotic disposition

[austere gazelle]

And thats just the talent tree issues. Not talking about this lame defensive that is netherwalk or the bloated opener or gimmick stuff that make no sense ( like using the hunt on the target and then you can propagate the dot of the hunt by zigzaging between mobs for 1 sec )

All of this to end up doing the same amount of damage than a 2 buttons spec

And two skills that can easily kill you like eye beam that root you on the ground for the whole duration , cant interrupt unless you have a fel rush charge

[sullen dawn]

Warden deserves more imo

full class, some sort of class skin (if they do that in the future), or a full spec for rogue at least

[ember blaze]

best they can do is a hero talent tree like dark ranger

tho hero talents are basically class skins

[austere gazelle]

Do you think it's dead for a 11.0.7 release in december?

I've read it would release more like end of january

[sleek solar]

Hmmm I think its still this year, but most likely we hear more during the anniversary

[warm topaz]

today is the day! the hype is real!!!

[austere gazelle]

"Holiday celebrant"
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/916772082371665941/1306242941596991518/image.png?ex=6735f50a&is=6734a38a&hm=8c490fcd135f4e86c4a62d48123935ad2607520386081ad045e196cd8c7fe757&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=992&height=322

One of us is not like the otheeers

lol, we finally made it to the bottom

[deep pawn]

it's finally today!

[ember blaze]

Tinker class reveal

[rain cave]

would be a shock lmao

[deep pawn]

show time!

MrGM!

[zealous sedge]

lets go!

[deep pawn]

Queen Holly!

[silent urchin]

shop updated already

[zealous sedge]

hell yeah

[deep pawn]

WC1 reworked!

oh that's so good looking

[zealous sedge]

i hope WC3 updates are to what they originially intended/ expected

[deep pawn]

not as far as original

[silent urchin]

oh, £35 for the collection. $45 maybe?

[zealous sedge]

wc3 update just pushed thru, as expected

it's 4 gigs, thats pretty sizabel i would say

[deep pawn]

oh they're gonna make us wait on WoW

[zealous sedge]

oh yeah i bet its the last part

wc3 down for maintnenace til 5 pst damn i wanted to see how it looked

[deep pawn]

Starcraft cards?

[zealous sedge]

oh sweet

[deep pawn]

This is jimmy

[zealous sedge]

hell yeah Grunty

I know this is warcraft direct but are we getting starcraft 3 or does that team not exist anymore

[deep pawn]

there's no rts team that we know of

[zealous sedge]

damn

[deep pawn]

Blizzard Classics takes care of the RTS and HotS though

first roadmap

[zealous sedge]

oh yeah here we go

[deep pawn]

my phone can't run rumble lol

[lone mantle]

I suppose it will take quite some time before the remastered editions of Warcraft are available on macOS.

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/im-dead-bruh-im-dead-s-keleton-dead-im-dead-bruh-skeleton-gif-26854882

[zealous sedge]

haha its a little funny they started out this segment in the museum, like Rumble is already a thing of the past

[ember blaze]

i had an iphone XR? who couldnt run it either 💀

upgraded to a 15